1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,639 Michelle Hord: Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Michelle Ward. 2 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,959 Emily Tisch Sussman: Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk 3 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,599 Emily Tisch Sussman: with women who dare to pivot out of one career 4 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:24,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: and into something new and explore how their personal lives 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:33,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: impacts these decisions. I'm your host Emily Tish Sussman. Today 6 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm honored to have Michelle Hoard on the show. Michelle 7 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: is a true powerhouse pivoter. The former vice president of 8 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,839 Emily Tisch Sussman: Creative Content and Talent Management for NBC Universal. There's no 9 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:52,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: question that she collected professional achievement after professional achievement, but 10 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: then it all came crashing down in twenty seventeen when 11 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:01,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: the unimaginable happened. She lost her so seven year old daughter, Gabrielle, 12 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: and what was already a nightmare turned into a scene 13 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: out of a horror movie when she discovered that it 14 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:13,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: was her ex husband who had murdered Gabrielle. Everything shifted 15 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: after Gabrielle's murder, and in the years that followed, Michelle 16 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,199 Emily Tisch Sussman: found herself standing at a crossroads not just of grief, 17 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:27,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: but of identity, faith, and the question we all ask 18 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:33,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: in our darkest moments, what comes after? Her answer became 19 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: a powerful personal and deeply human roadmap to healing, and 20 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,039 Emily Tisch Sussman: her best selling book, The Other Side of Yet, Michelle 21 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:48,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: shares how she moved through sorrow, through anger, numbness, even hope, 22 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: and eventually arrived at a place where life could continue. 23 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: Not the same life, not without pain, but a life 24 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: on the other side of Yet. Here in this episode 25 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: that she thinks of her life as before and after 26 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: the death of Gabrielle. Of course, like all our episodes, 27 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: we will go through the before as we put the 28 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: puzzle pieces of her life together. But what I love 29 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: so much about her story and how she speaks, thinks, 30 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: and acts is what she has chosen to do with 31 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: that quote after. We often talk about pivots on this 32 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: show as bold choices, unexpected moves, or new chapters, but 33 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:35,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: sometimes a pivot is survival. Sometimes it's choosing to get 34 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: out of bed, choosing to write, choosing to love again, 35 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: and Michelle's story is a powerful reminder that our pivots 36 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,919 Emily Tisch Sussman: are ever evolving, and sometimes the best we can do 37 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: is to meet that change where it is. Here is 38 00:02:51,360 --> 00:03:01,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: Michelle in her story this episode it contains content that 39 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: might be difficult for some listeners. Please listen with care. 40 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,240 Michelle Hord: My name is Michelle Horde, and gosh what do I do? 41 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,800 Michelle Hord: I do a bunch of stuff. But right now I'm 42 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,160 Michelle Hord: working as a coach and a keynote speaker and a 43 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,239 Michelle Hord: strategic consultant for a variety of different companies. 44 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 3: Okay, let's say more about that. Let's just start there. 45 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 3: What is the work that you do? So I grew 46 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 3: up as a television producer and then pivoted to HR 47 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: which is kind of crazy, you know. I remember like 48 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 3: the hallway getting longer, like I was in Poltergeist when 49 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 3: I went to the corporate side of the house. But 50 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: it was because I wanted to understand the business broader. 51 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 3: This is to age myself, like as Twitter is developing 52 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 3: and as the iPhone is developing, and it was so 53 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 3: clear that the business was changing, so I wanted to 54 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 3: understand it. So I brought fifteen years of actual producing 55 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 3: experiences at places like Oprah, America's Most Want and Good 56 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 3: Morning America to looking for on air talent, to running 57 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 3: all of recruiting at one point for NBC Universal and 58 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 3: spending about a decade there. So now I work for 59 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 3: myself and I'm a consultant in in addition to doing 60 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 3: keynote speeches, and one on one leadership coaching. I also 61 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 3: consult in a variety of areas. 62 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 4: Can you tell us about little Michelle, like where did 63 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 4: you grow up? What made you you? 64 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,240 Michelle Hord: One of the things that made me me is I 65 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,240 Michelle Hord: was never little. I was always the tallest kid in 66 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,360 Michelle Hord: the class. I remember being taller than our fairly tall 67 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,800 Michelle Hord: sixth grade teacher. And so I think one of the 68 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,400 Michelle Hord: things early on was learning how to fit in right. 69 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,320 Michelle Hord: And you know, one of the cruel things about school, 70 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,440 Michelle Hord: early years of school is it's all about sameness, right, 71 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,440 Michelle Hord: and whether that's being the only black kid in the class, 72 00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,360 Michelle Hord: or being someone with an unusual not a generic class name, 73 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,799 Michelle Hord: or being able to see the top of everyone's heads, 74 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,119 Michelle Hord: or being the one that the teacher says, okay, Michelle, 75 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,799 Michelle Hord: let's let someone else answer the question. You know, those 76 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,400 Michelle Hord: were any differentiator, it becomes the beginning of us othering people. 77 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,280 Michelle Hord: And I think sometimes as women and as girls, we 78 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,160 Michelle Hord: feel like we have to make ourselves smaller in order 79 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,200 Michelle Hord: to be palatable. I think as a woman of color, 80 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,960 Michelle Hord: that comes into play. So it's amazing how young those 81 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,520 Michelle Hord: sort of ideas started being too much. So that was, 82 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,280 Michelle Hord: you know, something that I think helped make me who 83 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,800 Michelle Hord: I was and where it wound up being helpful is 84 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,040 Michelle Hord: I have the ability to code switch pretty easily, and 85 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,640 Michelle Hord: to read the room, know what's needed in the room, 86 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,480 Michelle Hord: and to be an ambassador between different rooms, you know, 87 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,479 Michelle Hord: between different styles, between different perspectives, which really comes into 88 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:49,440 Michelle Hord: play in the workplace. 89 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: These skills didn't just form out of nowhere. In fact, 90 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: growing up, Michelle and her family moved around quite a bit. 91 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,080 Michelle Hord: I went to six elementary schools. I was a corporate brat, 92 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,599 Michelle Hord: not an army brat, but a corporate brat. And you know, 93 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,920 Michelle Hord: I think another layer is when one has to adjust 94 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,560 Michelle Hord: to new environments and new places and new people. That 95 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,560 Michelle Hord: probably also lends itself to how do I introduce myself? 96 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,920 Michelle Hord: Not that you're thinking this as a kid, but what's 97 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,280 Michelle Hord: my place? How do I introduce myself? You start to 98 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,520 Michelle Hord: see similarities in people and like, oh, this is a 99 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,479 Michelle Hord: Cindy type. I know how to manage this person. Again, 100 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,159 Michelle Hord: not little kid thoughts, but what you're actually doing. 101 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: But soon Michelle found her place and started to settle 102 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: into herself when she enrolled at Howard University. 103 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,440 Michelle Hord: And you know, the wonderful thing about attending a historically 104 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,440 Michelle Hord: black college like Howard University is the best way I 105 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,200 Michelle Hord: can describe it is it's everything and everyone you have 106 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,719 Michelle Hord: in the world except for that one thing is an issue, 107 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,400 Michelle Hord: The one differentiator isn't an issue, and the freedom in 108 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,360 Michelle Hord: that not being an issue. You know, there's all sorts 109 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,000 Michelle Hord: of other personality and you know, I was still the 110 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,120 Michelle Hord: tall girl and you know whatever, but not having that 111 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,800 Michelle Hord: as an issue really helps you identify your stuff. And 112 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:13,080 Michelle Hord: just the incredible sense of community that still. I mean, 113 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,880 Michelle Hord: I don't know friends that went to non HBCUs that 114 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,080 Michelle Hord: are still going to homecomings in their fifties. We do, 115 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,240 Michelle Hord: you know, because it feels like that one time of 116 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,480 Michelle Hord: year we get to go back to OZ. So, yeah, 117 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,840 Michelle Hord: I went to Howard and it was a life changing 118 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,920 Michelle Hord: experience for me for sure, life changing in what way. 119 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,920 Michelle Hord: I think It's when I gained confidence for the first time. Ironically, 120 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,840 Michelle Hord: Howard was not my first choice. I applied to a 121 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,880 Michelle Hord: bunch of schools. My first choice was Georgetown. It was 122 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,280 Michelle Hord: the only school I didn't get into. And as a 123 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,080 Michelle Hord: smart kid that for their whole life, you know, a 124 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,840 Michelle Hord: whole seventeen year tenure, had pretty much been able to 125 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,960 Michelle Hord: work their way to what they wanted. It was devastating, 126 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,720 Michelle Hord: and it's so funny when you look back at yourself 127 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,240 Michelle Hord: and see how early things develop. I kept my rejection 128 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,600 Michelle Hord: letter from Georgetown. I had it in a photo album 129 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,520 Michelle Hord: that I still have to this day, because I said, 130 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,320 Michelle Hord: this is this must mean something. And I did like 131 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,520 Michelle Hord: the early investigator reporting of like we've got to call 132 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,120 Michelle Hord: the admissions, like you know, before the Internet, Like I 133 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,640 Michelle Hord: want to understand why, and you know, I had to 134 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,320 Michelle Hord: understand that, like the percentage of people applying from my 135 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,920 Michelle Hord: state was blah blah blah blah. But I got a 136 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,840 Michelle Hord: full ride to Howard. And although my parents were in 137 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,400 Michelle Hord: a position that they were gracious and enough to say 138 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,280 Michelle Hord: you can go wherever you want, I felt like that 139 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,680 Michelle Hord: meant something and said, Okay, I know I lived DC, 140 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,120 Michelle Hord: I'll go for a year and if it doesn't work out, 141 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,040 Michelle Hord: you know, I can transfer to Georgetown. And I never 142 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,080 Michelle Hord: looked back. I never looked back. 143 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,119 Emily Tisch Sussman: Wow. After you graduated, you went to work on America's 144 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: Most Wanted, which is a pretty intense show where you 145 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: see a lot of violence, a lot of grief. So 146 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: what was that experience like for you? 147 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,800 Michelle Hord: It was such a eye open her to so many things. 148 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,240 Michelle Hord: You know, people would literally be sitting around eating pizza 149 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,320 Michelle Hord: looking at photos from a murder scene, and so you 150 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,440 Michelle Hord: start to understand, which I think in journalism you get 151 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,760 Michelle Hord: as well, but the sort of need for a sense 152 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,640 Michelle Hord: of heart and shell that a lot of law enforcement 153 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,160 Michelle Hord: people have, the crew joking that comes up that a 154 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,520 Michelle Hord: lot of times is just a survival mechanism. And for me, 155 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:28,719 Michelle Hord: you know, the one thing from the time I was 156 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,240 Michelle Hord: a little kid that I loved was storytelling and writing, 157 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,480 Michelle Hord: and so I've looked for that and every opportunity I've had, 158 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,439 Michelle Hord: and America's most wanted. I wound up getting the job 159 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,320 Michelle Hord: of handling all the missing children cases when I was 160 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,520 Michelle Hord: twenty three years old. And so, you know, this is 161 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,440 Michelle Hord: the early nineties. We don't have reality television. You know, 162 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,840 Michelle Hord: reality television was news magazines. So at the time when 163 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,760 Michelle Hord: things like this would happen, I would be showing up 164 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,520 Michelle Hord: at a scene that six different national network news magazines 165 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,920 Michelle Hord: were showing up as well. The difference was I was 166 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,839 Michelle Hord: inside the house because of the show, because we were 167 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,600 Michelle Hord: part nonprofit, part counseling agency, part law. You know, it 168 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,040 Michelle Hord: was this all of these different sorts of things. There 169 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,800 Michelle Hord: was a connection because of John Walsh, our host, who 170 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,400 Michelle Hord: had lost a child tragically, and so I found myself 171 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,840 Michelle Hord: at a very young age, you know, sitting next to 172 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,640 Michelle Hord: mothers who were in shock or grieving or terrified, and 173 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,880 Michelle Hord: they're you know, being with someone at the worst moment 174 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,360 Michelle Hord: of their life in those unimaginable spaces. Taught me that 175 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:38,600 Michelle Hord: ordinary people can survive extraordinary circumstances. And you know, I think, 176 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,640 Michelle Hord: as I think of my own life story, it's a 177 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,959 Michelle Hord: bit more than ironic that that's where my career started. 178 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: While still early in her career, Michelle's first life changing 179 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: experience happened. She was just twenty four when she got 180 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: a call no child wants to get that her mother 181 00:10:58,360 --> 00:10:59,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: had suddenly passed away. 182 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:06,120 Michelle Hord: If you want to talk about significant life pivots, that 183 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,199 Michelle Hord: was at that moment, and for many many years afterwards, 184 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,640 Michelle Hord: a defining moment for me. I worshiped my mother. We 185 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,280 Michelle Hord: were very different types of women. She was a quieter, 186 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:23,079 Michelle Hord: more conservative, less of a pirate sailor than her daughter, 187 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,839 Michelle Hord: and so that, as it does with young people, could 188 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,640 Michelle Hord: cause stuff. But her mother was dying of cancer that 189 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,120 Michelle Hord: had started as lung cancer and had spread to her 190 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,320 Michelle Hord: brain when my mom died, so we had been spending 191 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,640 Michelle Hord: a lot of time together. I had gone with my 192 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,000 Michelle Hord: mom to visit my grandmother, and my worst nightmare as 193 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,640 Michelle Hord: a kid was losing my mom. I would literally, even 194 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,600 Michelle Hord: as a young adult, you know, wake up in the 195 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,280 Michelle Hord: middle of the night with a nightmare that she had 196 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,080 Michelle Hord: died and call her and she'd be like, earl, you know, 197 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,280 Michelle Hord: I'm not going anywhere, you know, teasing me. So my 198 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,920 Michelle Hord: mother died suddenly of a cerebral aneurysm at fifty, perfectly healthy, 199 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,160 Michelle Hord: didn't drink, didn't smoke, and my father came home from 200 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,840 Michelle Hord: work and founder and when he first called us, called me, 201 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,640 Michelle Hord: his voice was so small and he said she's gone, 202 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,160 Michelle Hord: and all I could think of was, oh, my gosh, 203 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,360 Michelle Hord: my grandmother's passed away. I wonder how mom is doing. 204 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,440 Michelle Hord: And then there was a step back where he said 205 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:30,960 Michelle Hord: your mother, and it was a really you know. It 206 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,079 Michelle Hord: was that moment of I now have to mother myself 207 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,680 Michelle Hord: that I am no longer emulating the type of woman 208 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,679 Michelle Hord: that I saw growing up, but that I would have 209 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,800 Michelle Hord: to create that path for myself that I didn't have 210 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:55,320 Michelle Hord: the cushion of a very involved, in tuned mother and 211 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,440 Michelle Hord: took on additional responsibilities with my dad and my brother. 212 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,600 Michelle Hord: So it was it made me feel like I grew 213 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,680 Michelle Hord: up really quick, and that it really differentiated me for 214 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,439 Michelle Hord: most of my peers. You know, my mother was so 215 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:13,959 Michelle Hord: singular in my life that I've really felt like I 216 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,480 Michelle Hord: have to I have to take care of myself now. 217 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,679 Michelle Hord: And there's this wonderful book by Hope Edelman called Motherless Daughters, 218 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,560 Michelle Hord: and there's a line in there that you know, I 219 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,600 Michelle Hord: am hoi aan because my mother lived, and I am 220 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,760 Michelle Hord: hoy am because my mother died. And I think, especially 221 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,040 Michelle Hord: as a young woman who's just trying to figure out 222 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,200 Michelle Hord: who she is a couple of years out of college, 223 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,240 Michelle Hord: that is really really true. 224 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: Eventually, Michelle found her strength and went on to work 225 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,439 Emily Tisch Sussman: for Oprah, CBS News, and Good Morning America, working her 226 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: way up and up and up. A true career woman. 227 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,839 Emily Tisch Sussman: She wasn't thinking much about marriage or kids until things 228 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: aligned with an old friend from college. 229 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,559 Michelle Hord: And it wasn't an until probably twelve thirteen years later, 230 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,400 Michelle Hord: when I was living in New York, when I was 231 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,240 Michelle Hord: in my early thirties, that we really started seriously dating. 232 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,920 Michelle Hord: And my perspective again in my story was that This 233 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,120 Michelle Hord: was someone I knew really well, that I trusted, that 234 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,520 Michelle Hord: had met my mom, who passed away when I was 235 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,640 Michelle Hord: twenty four, and so there was an assumption of safety 236 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,280 Michelle Hord: right with a good friend. We did like the vows 237 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,720 Michelle Hord: thing for the times, and you know, I remember saying, 238 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,880 Michelle Hord: you know, we're like the black when Harry met Sally, 239 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,520 Michelle Hord: and that's how I felt at the time. So we 240 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,080 Michelle Hord: got married when we were thirty seven years old in 241 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,640 Michelle Hord: two thousand and seven, but the relationship didn't last. When 242 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,160 Michelle Hord: did you start to see a change and saw like 243 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,560 Michelle Hord: some red flags, like when did you decide to end 244 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,960 Michelle Hord: the relationship. We had our daughter in two thousand and nine, Gabrielle, 245 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,840 Michelle Hord: who from the minute she was born and perhaps even 246 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:05,320 Michelle Hord: in tummy, was like a ball of energy, endless energy, bubbly, effervescent. 247 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,600 Michelle Hord: And you know, I think sometimes people in their stories 248 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,160 Michelle Hord: tell a story that they're not living authentically. And so 249 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,200 Michelle Hord: he and perhaps in his mind, because you know, I 250 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,880 Michelle Hord: would later find out that he had to have been 251 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,600 Michelle Hord: an undiagnosed, seriously sick person. But you know, he had 252 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:32,400 Michelle Hord: in his mind what fatherhood and being a husband meant, 253 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,720 Michelle Hord: and what he sold and what he delivered were very, 254 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,920 Michelle Hord: very different. And so as Gabrielle got older and was 255 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,840 Michelle Hord: five and six years old, I realized that this smart 256 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:45,920 Michelle Hord: little girl's going to start seeing things. She's going to 257 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:47,480 Michelle Hord: see that mommy's the one that goes to work, that 258 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,920 Michelle Hord: mommy does everything, and it would kill me to have 259 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,960 Michelle Hord: her do as I did and not as I said. 260 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,640 Michelle Hord: And so I realized, more for her than for me, 261 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:04,000 Michelle Hord: that I couldn't continue to patch work this thing without 262 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,080 Michelle Hord: a real partner, and asked him for a divorce in 263 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,800 Michelle Hord: right around Thanksgiving actually in twenty sixteen. 264 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: When We come back, Michelle recounts the moment in time 265 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:33,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: when her quote before and after met. When we left, 266 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: Michelle had made the difficult but necessary decision to file 267 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: for divorce, and the situation went from bad to worse 268 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: to her worst nightmare. 269 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,280 Michelle Hord: I moved out at the beginning of the next year. 270 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,440 Michelle Hord: He was very very much opposed to the divorce. Began 271 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,360 Michelle Hord: to change rapidly, get more and more desperate, get more 272 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,160 Michelle Hord: and more really kind of in a fantasy world of 273 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,560 Michelle Hord: what was really going on in the role that he played. 274 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,920 Michelle Hord: And so I moved to a rental house to avoid 275 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,359 Michelle Hord: friction and most importantly, to avoid Gabrielle seeing friction, and 276 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,080 Michelle Hord: so while we were going through the divorce process, she 277 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,280 Michelle Hord: would stay with him a few days a week and 278 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,320 Michelle Hord: would stay with me a few days a week. And 279 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,600 Michelle Hord: so we had that back and forth, and he fought 280 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,080 Michelle Hord: and fought and fought and fought against getting this divorce, 281 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,959 Michelle Hord: and finally I received a call from him on June fifth, 282 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,520 Michelle Hord: twenty seventeen, saying he would sign the papers, and I 283 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,400 Michelle Hord: remember running into my boss's office saying, Oh my god, 284 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,720 Michelle Hord: he's going to sign. I have to get out of 285 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,720 Michelle Hord: here now before he changes his mind. Met him at 286 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,880 Michelle Hord: a ups store with a notary, and we kind of 287 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,679 Michelle Hord: thinddly joked as we signed all these papers that we 288 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,880 Michelle Hord: got married at this beautiful Riverside church in New York, 289 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,439 Michelle Hord: fairytale wedding that was in Bride's magazine, and look at 290 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,880 Michelle Hord: how unceremoniously it's ending. And as I walked out with him, 291 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,320 Michelle Hord: he said to me, you know, I'm sorry for everything 292 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:09,200 Michelle Hord: that's happened, because he really made it as hard as possible. 293 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,159 Michelle Hord: And I felt this huge sense of relief and said, 294 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,679 Michelle Hord: that's okay. All that matters is that we both left 295 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,399 Michelle Hord: Gabrielle and that we can continue to co parent and 296 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,679 Michelle Hord: we were friends first, and we will always be friends. 297 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,959 Michelle Hord: And I went home and called everyone that had been 298 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,400 Michelle Hord: praying for me and thinking for about me, and felt 299 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:33,200 Michelle Hord: this huge lift after just a terrorizing several months, and 300 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,800 Michelle Hord: slept well. And I woke up the next morning, as 301 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,760 Michelle Hord: I always did when Gabrielle was not with me, I 302 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:44,200 Michelle Hord: sent her a voice note via her dad's a text 303 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,280 Michelle Hord: via her dad's phone. I got a bunch of emojis back, 304 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:48,919 Michelle Hord: which is what she would typically do, and I went 305 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,000 Michelle Hord: to work. And about three o'clock that afternoon, I was 306 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,840 Michelle Hord: presenting at a facility and I got a phone, a 307 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,560 Michelle Hord: missed phone call, and you know, as a mom like, 308 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,040 Michelle Hord: the phone becomes an appendage, so you know, it wasn't 309 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,280 Michelle Hord: There wasn't a lot of time between a miss phone 310 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,760 Michelle Hord: call and me responding, and so I quickly called back, 311 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:13,440 Michelle Hord: and it was Gabrielle's caregiver, and this blood curdling scream 312 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,320 Michelle Hord: came out, and it was very very clear that she 313 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,880 Michelle Hord: had walked into a crime scene. I didn't know exactly 314 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,399 Michelle Hord: what that meant yet. My first thought was that my 315 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,480 Michelle Hord: then husband had killed himself, and how in the world 316 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,400 Michelle Hord: was I going to explain this to Gabrielle. I told 317 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,120 Michelle Hord: her to get out of the house to call nine 318 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,080 Michelle Hord: to one one. I called my mother in law to say, listen, 319 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,320 Michelle Hord: I need you to get to the house. I was 320 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,080 Michelle Hord: in downtown Manhattan for those that know Manhattan, and had 321 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,480 Michelle Hord: to get to New Rochelle. So you know, on a 322 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,880 Michelle Hord: good day, that's a forty five minute drive. It probably 323 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,560 Michelle Hord: was like the longest hour and a half of my life. 324 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,040 Michelle Hord: And one of my colleagues was driving me home, and 325 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,400 Michelle Hord: you know, tried to keep me encouraged, try to keep 326 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,760 Michelle Hord: me you know, maybe you know, she's just hurt, maybe 327 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:08,520 Michelle Hord: it's nothing serious. And I just knew, I just knew. 328 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,040 Michelle Hord: I just want to add one thing, just that I 329 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,320 Michelle Hord: should have added a little earlier. When I got the 330 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:20,639 Michelle Hord: call and initially thought that he had hurt himself, I 331 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,080 Michelle Hord: started to get this like cold feeling through my body. 332 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,439 Michelle Hord: And I called a friend of mine who was a 333 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,800 Michelle Hord: fellow mom at the school, who was always there for 334 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,080 Michelle Hord: a drop off and pickup, and asked her if she 335 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,199 Michelle Hord: had seen Gabrielle that morning, and she said now, And 336 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:39,119 Michelle Hord: that's when everything changed. And I went and found a 337 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,919 Michelle Hord: little phone booth they call them now, tiny closet space 338 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,840 Michelle Hord: and got on my knees and said, God, I don't 339 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,440 Michelle Hord: know what I'm walking into, but please give me the 340 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,879 Michelle Hord: strength to endure it. And took that long ride home. 341 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,639 Michelle Hord: I got to a point where my good friends weren't 342 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,520 Michelle Hord: returning my text or calls. Who I knew had had 343 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,800 Michelle Hord: time to get to the scene. And about five minutes 344 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,159 Michelle Hord: before where I arrived, one of my friends called me 345 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,680 Michelle Hord: and asked where I was, and I said, I'm about 346 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,000 Michelle Hord: five minutes away. And as we pulled up, I could 347 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,119 Michelle Hord: see the lights of the police, the police tape, and 348 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,439 Michelle Hord: my pastor was the first person I saw, and he 349 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,959 Michelle Hord: almost lifted me out of the car like a child 350 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:23,240 Michelle Hord: and said, it's true, and he is in an ambulance 351 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,000 Michelle Hord: on his way to the hospital. And I said, do 352 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,000 Michelle Hord: you mean that motherfucker didn't have the decency to kill himself. 353 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,000 Michelle Hord: And so my sweet seven year old baby girl was 354 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,920 Michelle Hord: murdered by her own father. 355 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: The most unfathomable thing that any parent can imagine. 356 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,040 Michelle Hord: This was worse than my worst nightmare. You know, my 357 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,080 Michelle Hord: worst nightmare was something happening to her right getting sick, 358 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,359 Michelle Hord: a horrible accident, and a stranger. And yet it was 359 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,840 Michelle Hord: her father, and so you know, the levels of loss 360 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:12,600 Michelle Hord: and betrayal just were like unpeeling an onion. I remember 361 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,320 Michelle Hord: as we were, as I was being driven away from 362 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,159 Michelle Hord: the crime scene back to the rental house, googling a 363 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,639 Michelle Hord: verse in job because I felt like I needed it 364 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,000 Michelle Hord: and wanted to get it right, and the verses though 365 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,399 Michelle Hord: he slained me, yet do I trust him? And I 366 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,520 Michelle Hord: remember that first night as people started just showing up 367 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,560 Michelle Hord: and coming in, friends with me in prayer on our knees, 368 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,080 Michelle Hord: crying and ME saying over and over and over again, 369 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:42,760 Michelle Hord: though he slain me, yet, do I trust him? Though 370 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,399 Michelle Hord: he slain me? Yet, do I trust him? And it 371 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,000 Michelle Hord: was very aspirational. I didn't quite believe it, but there 372 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,960 Michelle Hord: was something in my gut that said, you know, this 373 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,000 Michelle Hord: was worse than my worst nightmare, and so as someone 374 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,159 Michelle Hord: who grew up with faith, it felt to me like 375 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,480 Michelle Hord: whatever the enemy, they went for the jugular and this 376 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,200 Michelle Hord: was supposed to take me out. I later found out 377 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,359 Michelle Hord: from the police that his plan most likely was to 378 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,479 Michelle Hord: kill me as well, because I was supposed to come 379 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,320 Michelle Hord: to the house that afternoon and the caregiver surprised him 380 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,240 Michelle Hord: when she showed up, So if I was still here, 381 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,280 Michelle Hord: I had to be here for a reason, and so 382 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,679 Michelle Hord: you know, the kind of you know, it's almost like 383 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,840 Michelle Hord: flashes of moments for those first couple of days and 384 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,280 Michelle Hord: weeks of people arriving, of dealing with law enforcement, of 385 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,000 Michelle Hord: just all the things that you could imagine would go 386 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,479 Michelle Hord: with not just losing a child, but being a victim 387 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,280 Michelle Hord: of a crime and having to deal with Special Victims Unit, 388 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,280 Michelle Hord: and you know, being ushered in the back door of 389 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,360 Michelle Hord: a police station because there were camera crews out front. 390 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:54,000 Michelle Hord: It was, you know, surreal. Certainly doesn't articulate what those 391 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,800 Michelle Hord: early days and weeks were. But I did start writing immediately, 392 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,359 Michelle Hord: and I started reading the Book of Job. Would get 393 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,800 Michelle Hord: up every morning. I mean, not that I was sleeping much, 394 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,639 Michelle Hord: but by five I was outside. It was June. I 395 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,479 Michelle Hord: was outside in the dark, reading and crying and writing. 396 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,040 Michelle Hord: But it felt like the only way I could begin 397 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,080 Michelle Hord: to process and imagine what was happening to me. And 398 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,919 Michelle Hord: it was such a solitary grief, right, This wasn't a 399 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,080 Michelle Hord: situation where a child dies and the parents have each other. 400 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,640 Michelle Hord: I lost one of my best friends. I lost my child. 401 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,480 Michelle Hord: Over time, I would lose some friends who frankly could 402 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,640 Michelle Hord: not deal with the proximity to something so traumatic, and 403 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,200 Michelle Hord: so my writing was about lost. Sometimes it was about 404 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,960 Michelle Hord: just that day. I would usually write in the morning 405 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,320 Michelle Hord: and it would be something like I have to make 406 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,479 Michelle Hord: myself go out and walk today, or I'm proud of 407 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,840 Michelle Hord: myself because I took a shower and met somebody for lunch. 408 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,879 Michelle Hord: And so there was a bit of chronicling what was 409 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,520 Michelle Hord: happening and a lot of asking God and sometimes myself, 410 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:04,840 Michelle Hord: how I was going to survive. 411 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: You talk in the book that you eventually published, You're 412 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: an incredibly beautiful radar, and you talk very candidly about 413 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: what grief and processing looked like for you, like as 414 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: a result of this, but it was everything like from 415 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: guilt to gratitude to survival and success and anger. How 416 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: did you give yourself the grace through each of these 417 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: emotions to allow for processing. 418 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,200 Michelle Hord: Every minute an hour was different. In addition to really 419 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:38,640 Michelle Hord: good therapy, I just have incredible friends, just incredible friends. 420 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,040 Michelle Hord: And one of the chapters in my book is find 421 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,480 Michelle Hord: Your Army, And I had people come out of the 422 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,560 Michelle Hord: woodwork for me in all ways, whether that was cooking, 423 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,680 Michelle Hord: whether that was a list of people to make sure 424 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,760 Michelle Hord: I wasn't spending the night by myself for several months 425 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,679 Michelle Hord: after this happened, someone showing up with dresses for me 426 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,760 Michelle Hord: for funeral to pick from. And you know, the reality is, 427 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,520 Michelle Hord: these dear friends were also exposed to trauma. You know, 428 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:13,120 Michelle Hord: this was my best friend's godchild. These were people who 429 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,120 Michelle Hord: had to explain to their own young children what happened, 430 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,800 Michelle Hord: or grapple with whether they were going to tell the 431 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,399 Michelle Hord: truth about what happened. She was in the second grade, 432 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,360 Michelle Hord: So there were so many tentacles. But I just had 433 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:31,000 Michelle Hord: amazing friends that stood by me, and my therapist early 434 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,000 Michelle Hord: on suggested that I occasionally share some of my writing 435 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,119 Michelle Hord: with my friends, just to give them some sense of 436 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,560 Michelle Hord: where I was and where my head was. And over time, 437 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,919 Michelle Hord: as I did that and started sharing it in a 438 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:49,960 Michelle Hord: more expansive way, and after speaking at Gabrielle's funeral, I 439 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,840 Michelle Hord: had people say things to me like, you know, I 440 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,560 Michelle Hord: hadn't prayed for years until I heard you at the funeral. 441 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,119 Michelle Hord: Or I read this and it's so inspirational. And so 442 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,119 Michelle Hord: I certainly did not go out at five am on 443 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,879 Michelle Hord: June eighth, twenty seventeen to write a book. I was 444 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,080 Michelle Hord: trying to survive. But at some point I realized that 445 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,639 Michelle Hord: those holes in my body were somehow shedding light for 446 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,240 Michelle Hord: other people. And so that's how I wrote the book. 447 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: In the inter of the book, you write, quote, I 448 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,119 Emily Tisch Sussman: made a conscious choice not to hide. I could have 449 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: chosen to try to quiet the noise of what he did, 450 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: but I didn't, and I won't. I will not shrink, 451 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: I will not whisper. Stories have the power to heal, 452 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: and this story certainly does. My story matters because Gabrielle mattered. 453 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: It matters, because hope matters, resilience matters, the realization that 454 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: is something bigger than us in the universe matters. So 455 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: can you tell us more about for someone to go 456 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: through something as horrific as you, that they easily could 457 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: have put their energy towards talking about violence in specific 458 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,679 Emily Tisch Sussman: or toxic men in specific, Like why did you go 459 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: in the direction that you did in your Hope Warriors 460 00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:58,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: meaningful work? 461 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,520 Michelle Hord: I think for starters, because I was a journalist and 462 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,800 Michelle Hord: because I understood storytelling, and to me, it would have 463 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:11,640 Michelle Hord: been a tremendous disservice to my beautiful daughter to let 464 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,440 Michelle Hord: the focus be on what happened to her, And so 465 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,480 Michelle Hord: I decided the focus was going to be on how 466 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,160 Michelle Hord: to best honor her life and for starters that was surviving, 467 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,520 Michelle Hord: that was continuing to go talk about who she was 468 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,400 Michelle Hord: as a person, what she meant to other people, And eventually, 469 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,800 Michelle Hord: you know, it evolved into me starting a nonprofit in 470 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,040 Michelle Hord: her memory. And yes, there and you know, I don't 471 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,120 Michelle Hord: in any way begrudge people that make different decisions in 472 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,280 Michelle Hord: their grief. And I've been involved with organizations like the 473 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,280 Michelle Hord: Traydemon Martin Foundation, you know, where there's a very specific 474 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,680 Michelle Hord: type of violence and incident that was not my experience. 475 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,840 Michelle Hord: So part of it was being authentic to my action experience. 476 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,120 Michelle Hord: But more important to me than my experience was how 477 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:11,120 Michelle Hord: people experienced Gabrielle and my hunger as a mom to 478 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,480 Michelle Hord: ensure children that looked like her would have some of 479 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,520 Michelle Hord: the opportunities that she would have had, And so that 480 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,560 Michelle Hord: really became my focus. 481 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: You talk a lot in your book about the before 482 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: and the after. When did you start to delineate that 483 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:28,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: in your mind? 484 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,360 Michelle Hord: You know, before was very clear, and I think we 485 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,600 Michelle Hord: all obviously my situation was an extreme situation, but we 486 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,600 Michelle Hord: all have these moments in our lives, right, these pivot moments, 487 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,000 Michelle Hord: and you know, there was a very clear everything that 488 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,080 Michelle Hord: happened before June seventh of twenty seventeen versus everything that 489 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,959 Michelle Hord: happened after, and for me, what it really was about, 490 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,480 Michelle Hord: and it began with me googling that verse was how 491 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,000 Michelle Hord: do I get to the other side this has happened yet? 492 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,600 Michelle Hord: And the yet for me was the opportunity to still 493 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,200 Michelle Hord: try to keep going, not knowing what after was. And 494 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,120 Michelle Hord: even in the book, I haven't divided into before yet 495 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,720 Michelle Hord: and after and with after I have a question mark 496 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,720 Michelle Hord: because it's always evolving and changing. Right before it is defined, 497 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,560 Michelle Hord: there's a line. The decision to pivot and to change 498 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,160 Michelle Hord: and to say yet and to continue is one we make. 499 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,440 Michelle Hord: And then after is an ongoing thing that unfolds. 500 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: We're going to take a short break and when we 501 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: come back. Michelle shares what her quote after looks like 502 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:41,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: these days. 503 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: One of the things that you talked about in your 504 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: book was how you thought that the after for you 505 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: would mean not loving again, not being mother again not 506 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: finding joy again. And actually that perspective has changed for you. 507 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: How and when did that change for you? My happy 508 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: place is the Bahamas, and I started going there probably 509 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: in my early thirties regularly and bought a little time 510 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: share and would go every year and would take friends, 511 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: and once Gabrielle was born, she would go with me. 512 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: Her dad thankfully did not and it was just this happy. 513 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,680 Michelle Hord: Place, you know. We went to a specific resort, specific 514 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,160 Michelle Hord: place people knew us, and so during the trial I 515 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,080 Michelle Hord: went there often. I had taken a leave of absence 516 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,560 Michelle Hord: from work and over the months I had the opportunity 517 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,600 Michelle Hord: to meet someone that worked at the resort and didn't 518 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,480 Michelle Hord: think anything of it. In fact, I knew pretty quickly 519 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,280 Michelle Hord: he was considerably younger than me, so I definitely wasn't 520 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,160 Michelle Hord: thinking anything of it. Yes, I've been called Stella a 521 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:01,760 Michelle Hord: thousand times by people and my friends. But Axel, who's 522 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,080 Michelle Hord: my husband now, and I met in twenty nineteen and 523 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,360 Michelle Hord: wound up doing COVID together, which I think was a 524 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,560 Michelle Hord: make or break for a lot of people. And the 525 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:20,920 Michelle Hord: ease of which the relationship evolved, you know, it was 526 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,040 Michelle Hord: not anything I was obviously looking for, but you know, 527 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:30,120 Michelle Hord: somehow I really believe God and my daughter put us 528 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,000 Michelle Hord: in that space. And he often talks about watching me 529 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,920 Michelle Hord: just sit on the beach and staring out into the 530 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,800 Michelle Hord: ocean and wondering what I was thinking before he knew 531 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,040 Michelle Hord: what had happened to me, And two and a half 532 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,000 Michelle Hord: three years later, we got married on that same beach 533 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,200 Michelle Hord: where I had stared off into the water, where he 534 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,080 Michelle Hord: had worked, and where I had spent time with my daughter. 535 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,520 Michelle Hord: And you have a new baby. Yes, we have a 536 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,480 Michelle Hord: new baby. We had a very long surrogacy journey, which 537 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,280 Michelle Hord: is a whole other podcast, but yes, we have a 538 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,280 Michelle Hord: baby boy. We have a baby boy. And I remember, 539 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,040 Michelle Hord: you know, we knew exactly the sex of the embryos, 540 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,000 Michelle Hord: and we're asked if we wanted to choose, and felt like, gosh, 541 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:19,440 Michelle Hord: this incredibly expensive, stressful process has been so designed. Let's 542 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,640 Michelle Hord: leave something up to God or chance. And we have 543 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,960 Michelle Hord: a little boy. And you know, there's a part of 544 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,480 Michelle Hord: me that is relieved because it gave me the opportunity 545 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,000 Michelle Hord: and is giving me the opportunity in a very present 546 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,680 Michelle Hord: way of having a completely different experience than when I 547 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,680 Michelle Hord: had my daughter. So, Gabrielle has a little brother. What 548 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,600 Michelle Hord: do you think that success looks like for you? Now, 549 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,680 Michelle Hord: that's a great question. I think I used to think 550 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:56,200 Michelle Hord: of success as tangible marks right of titles, and success 551 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,920 Michelle Hord: for me now I think is going to be about 552 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:06,640 Michelle Hord: being authentic to myself, making sure that I am practicing 553 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,839 Michelle Hord: self care, that I am being creative and telling rich stories, 554 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,560 Michelle Hord: and that I have a healthy marriage and a healthy child. 555 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,319 Michelle Hord: And while those things were always important, I think, you know, 556 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,640 Michelle Hord: looking for a certain title or a certain salary just 557 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,719 Michelle Hord: had a very different We're just very different before all 558 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,880 Michelle Hord: this happened. And what does self care look like for 559 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,920 Michelle Hord: you now? Probably sleeping a little more than you are 560 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,960 Michelle Hord: sleeping that part. I'll tell you something interesting though, I 561 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,680 Michelle Hord: had not slept well since I lost Gabrielle and have 562 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,200 Michelle Hord: dealt with incredible depression and anxiety. And when I can 563 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:52,640 Michelle Hord: sleep now I sleep and my anxiety is almost gone. 564 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,160 Michelle Hord: And so this little boy has been like the balm 565 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,560 Michelle Hord: in so many ways that I'm so grateful for, so 566 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,839 Michelle Hord: grateful for. But self care, you know, making myself, which 567 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,400 Michelle Hord: I'm not doing that great of a job at so 568 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,040 Michelle Hord: now I'm saying it on the record, I have to 569 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,040 Michelle Hord: do it of getting out and exercising right of you know, 570 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,200 Michelle Hord: taking a few minutes to actually go out with a 571 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,000 Michelle Hord: friend or get a massage, you know a lot of 572 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,360 Michelle Hord: those sorts of things. But you know, it's so easy, 573 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,879 Michelle Hord: I think, as women to put everybody else first, and 574 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,200 Michelle Hord: it's important to me in a new marriage. You know, 575 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,640 Michelle Hord: I know that we we certainly tell people how to 576 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,480 Michelle Hord: treat us right, and we tell people what is or 577 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,200 Michelle Hord: isn't acceptable and what our boundaries are. And so I'm 578 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,960 Michelle Hord: working hard to ensure in this relationship that I am 579 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,720 Michelle Hord: doing everything I can to take care of myself as well, 580 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,080 Michelle Hord: which was not really how I thought about it when 581 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:53,360 Michelle Hord: I was married the first time. 582 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: Well, I asked this question of all of my guests. 583 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: So it could be the thing we've already talked about 584 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: or something else, But what is one thing that at 585 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: the time you thought was a total low and now 586 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: in retrospect you see it as having really put you 587 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: in the headspace and the position that you are today. 588 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:17,239 Michelle Hord: In October of twenty nineteen, as I was flying to 589 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,439 Michelle Hord: the Bahamas right after the murder trial ended, I did 590 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,600 Michelle Hord: not know that the day I flew there, my divorce 591 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:30,600 Michelle Hord: had become final, and what had become a place to 592 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:39,600 Michelle Hord: mourn and to remember somehow became a place where new 593 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:44,560 Michelle Hord: love and new life and new memories were formed. And so, 594 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,440 Michelle Hord: you know, I think for many of us, having to 595 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,239 Michelle Hord: pivot in life is about what do I take with 596 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,480 Michelle Hord: me and what do I leave behind, what still serves 597 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,600 Michelle Hord: me and what doesn't, And that can change and evolve 598 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,160 Michelle Hord: over time, and it's important that we ask ourselves those 599 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,759 Michelle Hord: questions about what I need right now, what's important to 600 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,000 Michelle Hord: me right now, what serves me right now, And it 601 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,560 Michelle Hord: may not look the same as it did a month 602 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,759 Michelle Hord: or two years ago, and that's okay. But for me, 603 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,799 Michelle Hord: a place that had started as a wonderful place that 604 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:24,240 Michelle Hord: became an escape and a refuge in the worst moments 605 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:29,520 Michelle Hord: of my life also birthed my next chapter with my husband. 606 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: That's so incredibly beautiful. Now I know why you write 607 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: so well. Do you think you'll pivot again? 608 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,000 Michelle Hord: Of course, listen. I think people that think that life 609 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,480 Michelle Hord: is a linear beginning, middle, and end, and you know 610 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,200 Michelle Hord: they live happily ever after, are rudely awakened often. You know, 611 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,600 Michelle Hord: I think there are times that I will have to 612 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,759 Michelle Hord: pivot because of circumstances that I don't control. There will 613 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,760 Michelle Hord: be times that I pivot because there are new opportunities 614 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,960 Michelle Hord: or I have new needs. And for me, you know, 615 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,000 Michelle Hord: in some of my consulting work, I talk about change 616 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,399 Michelle Hord: confidence instead of change management, because change is coming and 617 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,279 Michelle Hord: so I think it's really important for us, not in 618 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,880 Michelle Hord: a dreadful way, but to understand what it takes to 619 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,600 Michelle Hord: be resilient, to understand the tools we need when those 620 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,799 Michelle Hord: pivots occur, whether they're self induced or put upon us. 621 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,719 Michelle Hord: Because life is changing, our world, our country, I mean, 622 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,040 Michelle Hord: things are changing around us and they always are, and 623 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,200 Michelle Hord: so you can either be the thermometer or the thermostat 624 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,160 Michelle Hord: and decide how you're going to set the tone the 625 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,840 Michelle Hord: temperature for where you are right now. 626 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: Thank you so much, Michelle, this was great. 627 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:47,240 Michelle Hord: Thank you for your grace. 628 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: Michelle has found so much in her after and is 629 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: now married with a brand new baby. She still continues 630 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: to change the lives of hundreds of children through her foundation, 631 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: Gabrielle's Wings, so be sure to visit their website Gabriellswings 632 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: dot org to support. You can also find her foundation 633 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: on the she Pivots Our Causes page. Talk to you 634 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:42,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: next week. Thanks for listening to this episode of she Pivots. 635 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: I hope you enjoyed it, and if you did, leave 636 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: us a rating and tell your friends about us. To 637 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram at 638 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our newsletter, 639 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content on 640 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:06,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: our website at she pivots podcast dot com. Special thanks 641 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: to the she pivots team, Executive producer Emily eda Velosik, 642 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: Associate producer and social media connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director 643 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: Christine Dickinson, Events and Logistics coordinator Madeline Sonovak, and audio 644 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: editor and mixer Nina pollock 645 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 4: I endorse She Pivots