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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We'll retalk true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm producer Courtney Armstrong here with

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Speaker 2: beloved crime analyst Body move In. The fearless and fabulous

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Speaker 2: founder of Kati's Studios, Miss Stephanie Lydecker, is out this evening,

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Speaker 2: but we'll be back tomorrow, thankfully.

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Speaker 3: Do not forget.

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Speaker 2: If you miss any part of the show, you can

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Speaker 2: always catch the podcast, and we want to hear from you.

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Speaker 2: The show doesn't work without it, so give us a call.

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Speaker 2: We're at eight at eight three one Crime, or you

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Speaker 2: can always get with us on socials. We're at at

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Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight's show on TikTok and Instagram and True

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Speaker 2: Crime Tonight on Facebook. It is Wednesday, July ninth, and

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Speaker 2: we have a stacked night a headlines. We're exploring the

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Speaker 2: urban case of the Golden State Killer, covering a shocking

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Speaker 2: murder that shook up the picture perfect Connecticut suburbs. Later

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Speaker 2: in the show, we'll be discussing the mysterious death of

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Speaker 2: LGBTQ icon Marcia P. Johnson, plus new information about Barry

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Speaker 2: Morphew's secret double life, and we'll be getting into why

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Speaker 2: the Tiger King star you know and may or may

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Speaker 2: not love, is facing jail time.

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Speaker 3: So listen.

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Speaker 2: I know we teased an episode today with Lisa Bryant,

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Speaker 2: the fabulous director of the Filthy Rich series on Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 2: That was something Stephanie was not going to miss. So

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Speaker 2: we will have all of that on Sunday's episode. But

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Speaker 2: right now we actually have a talk back about Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 4: Hey, this is Chase, huge fan of the show. My

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Speaker 4: question is, how is the general public supposed to get

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Speaker 4: this new found information that apparently there is no master

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Speaker 4: list of all the names and associates of Epstein after

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Speaker 4: we were told that there was, How are we supposed

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Speaker 4: to go from that and all of the hype that

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Speaker 4: all these documentaries and various shows built, and now all

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Speaker 4: of a sudden we're supposed to believe that there's nothing left.

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Speaker 5: How do we take that?

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Speaker 3: That's a really good question, Chase, thank you for the talkback.

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Speaker 3: I listen, Like I was saying last night, I feel

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Speaker 3: like we're being gas lit that you know, we were

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Speaker 3: told this all these many many years, that you know,

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Speaker 3: this Epstein list was going to be released, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people even based their presidential

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Speaker 3: vote on this, because some people take this stuff like

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Speaker 3: this is their entire life, you know, just Epstein stuff.

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Speaker 3: And so where are we supposed to go from here

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Speaker 3: with that? I I have a feeling that there's going

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Speaker 3: to be a whistleblower of some kind, or there's going

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Speaker 3: to be a document leak, There's going to be something

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Speaker 3: like that coming from some you know, masked person that

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Speaker 3: releases this stuff. But I think it's going to be

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Speaker 3: really important to be careful on what you believe too

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Speaker 3: because of that. Right like, somebody could be creating a

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Speaker 3: document right now, you know, in Google documents right now

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Speaker 3: and saying it as a PDF and making it look

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Speaker 3: like the client list. So I think there's going to

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Speaker 3: be a lot of those kinds of hoax kind of

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Speaker 3: thing coming out, like, oh, they said there wasn't a

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Speaker 3: client list, but look at this, here it is, but

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Speaker 3: it's not real. And then there's going to be also

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Speaker 3: a real one in the middle of those. I think

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Speaker 3: that's what's going to happen. I think that's actually a

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Speaker 3: great insight. I hadn't even.

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Speaker 2: Thought of about the fact that for sure people are

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Speaker 2: out there creating hoaxes. My mind didn't go that step ahead.

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Speaker 2: But Chase, I don't know where to go with it either.

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Speaker 2: And also, you know, I think, body, you're right that

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Speaker 2: maybe at some point there will be some whistleblower, there

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Speaker 2: will be some list or something, but I don't know

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Speaker 2: to what end. You know, Jeffrey Ebstein, he was with

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Speaker 2: the Creme de la creme, leaders of many foreign states

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Speaker 2: around the world. So who has this list? Like, what

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Speaker 2: is the top? If there is some top above Ebstein?

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Speaker 3: So or was he the top? Or was he the top?

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Speaker 6: And there if you believe Stephanie, If you believe Stephanie's theory,

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Speaker 6: you know, Jeffrey Ebstein was kind of working for somebody

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Speaker 6: to get dirt on these political elites, right to dirt

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Speaker 6: on them so that they could be blackmail to maybe

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Speaker 6: vote for a bill or you know, vote down a bill.

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Speaker 3: You know, so who knows, you know what Lisa is

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Speaker 3: going to be on the show on Sunday. She directed

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Speaker 3: Filthy Rich series, which covers like Epstein and Glene Maxwell.

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Speaker 3: So maybe she'll have some insight Chase. So stay tuned

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Speaker 3: for Sunday.

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Speaker 2: Stay tuned in the meantime, Body, what is going on

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Speaker 2: in the headlines.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is actually really this is really sad. So

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Speaker 3: the family of Idaho stabbing victim Kaylee Gunsoalves reveal why

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Speaker 3: they are returning eighty five thousand dollars from the GoFundMe

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Speaker 3: drive the head So, as you guys know, the trial

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Speaker 3: of Brian Coberger has been canceled because of course he

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Speaker 3: plaged guilty, so there's not going to be a trial now. Well,

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Speaker 3: you know, the victims, the families of the victims, they

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Speaker 3: live far away from where this trial was going to

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Speaker 3: be held. So they've been raising money on go fundme

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Speaker 3: to be able to you know, get an airbnb for

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Speaker 3: three months. You know, they still got to pay their

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Speaker 3: bills at home while not working because they're traveling. So

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Speaker 3: it's it's a significant cost. And the Kaylee's mom and

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Speaker 3: dad raised eighty five thousand dollars from GoFundMe and now

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Speaker 3: they said that they want to be transparent and return

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Speaker 3: that money. The issue is that you know, the money's

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Speaker 3: already been deposited to their bank account, like how do

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Speaker 3: they refund? So there's technical problems involved. It's listen, if

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Speaker 3: it were up to me, they'd keep it. They would

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Speaker 3: just keep it. I have to say. I mean you

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Speaker 3: mentioned time off of work. How do you work? How

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Speaker 3: do you function? Function?

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Speaker 2: How do you go back to any semblance of normalcy

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Speaker 2: after your child has been murdered?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: Like just the financial hit taking out of it what

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Speaker 2: was going to be the unsurmountable cost of travel and

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Speaker 2: being put up in a hotel. So right, listen, I

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Speaker 2: give it to you the Gounsolvest family for CHR too.

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Speaker 3: I do too. And you know they they basically said

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Speaker 3: that they want to be transparent. They don't want to

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Speaker 3: mislead the public who donated and support. You know, they

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Speaker 3: don't want to. I think there. I think it's really

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Speaker 3: noble of them to be like, yeah, we're we were,

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Speaker 3: We're definitely gonna be refunding this money I donated. Personally,

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Speaker 3: I would rather keep it, like saying good, I mean

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Speaker 3: I only donated one hundred dollars, but keep it. I

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Speaker 3: would rather you guys keep it, because not only I

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Speaker 3: mean this was a crushing blow to them. Now some

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Speaker 3: of the families are okay with the plea, right, but

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Speaker 3: for them, they are very upset by this plea. They

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Speaker 3: wanted this trial right. So if it helps them, you

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Speaker 3: not have to deal with this, I'm saying, to keep it.

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Speaker 3: That's just me. Yeah, you know, I don't know. It's

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Speaker 3: just really sad. You're listening to True Crime tonight in iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: I'm body moving and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and

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Speaker 3: we're just going over the top headlines in the true

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Speaker 3: crime universe. Give us a call at eighty eight thirty

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Speaker 3: one crime or tell us your thoughts on the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 3: What do you have, Courtney?

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Speaker 2: So this is a little bit of good news, although

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Speaker 2: I feel like I always say we have some good

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Speaker 2: news and then it turns horrible.

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Speaker 3: Because I always turn it horrible. I always said, it's

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Speaker 3: always me. I always go, oh my god. But what

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Speaker 3: about the worst thing in the world that could happen?

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Speaker 3: Is it not bad to have a chicken?

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Speaker 2: Little it in the mix? Sometimes the sky is falling.

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Speaker 2: But in this case, the Minnesota State Senator John Hoffman.

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Speaker 2: He was the man who was shot nine times allegedly

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Speaker 2: by Vance Bolter, who was posing as a police officer. Well,

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Speaker 2: he has finally left the hospital and is now recovering

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Speaker 2: in a transitional care unit. In a statement from his family,

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Speaker 2: they said John has been moved to a rehab facility

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Speaker 2: but still has a long road to recovery ahead. But listen,

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Speaker 2: it's a minor miracle. Even though they had to go

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Speaker 2: through such tragedy, such senseless tragedy, both he and his

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Speaker 2: wife Yvette, of being shot many times by a madman.

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Speaker 2: He is recovering. So listen, let's take the win and

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Speaker 2: we will be staying tuned. This won't be for a while,

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Speaker 2: but the alleged shooter, Vance Bolter, he faces six federal

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Speaker 2: charges that include murder, firearms, and stalking. He could be

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Speaker 2: eligible for the death penalty. We'll see how it plays out,

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Speaker 2: but in the meantime, we are sending really wishes to

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Speaker 2: Senator John Hoffman.

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Speaker 3: I saw the story on x I think was yesterday

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Speaker 3: of him in the hospital. Looks like he was carrying something.

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Speaker 3: He was standing, I mean he I couldn't believe it.

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Speaker 3: He was standing like walking. Just I think imagine being

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Speaker 3: shot that many times, like less than a month ago.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yes, it's impossible. And his wife was also I

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Speaker 2: believe she was shot eight times.

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Speaker 3: I think so. Yeah, I think so, And I believe

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Speaker 3: she like it From what I remember, I believe she

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Speaker 3: like ran to her children or child and like covered

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Speaker 3: them up with her body, like I mean there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, their adult daughter named Hope, what a name. Okay,

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Speaker 2: she was there, she wasn't injured, and she did call

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Speaker 2: nine one one, and I imagine Hope's quick response had

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Speaker 2: something to do with both of her parents.

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Speaker 3: Thank god she was there on the road. Thank god

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Speaker 3: she was there, because if she wasn't there, I wonder

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Speaker 3: if they would be here today. Because if you're shot,

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Speaker 3: can you reach for your phone? Can you even speak?

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Speaker 3: I guess it depends on what your shot. If you're

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Speaker 3: shot in the lungs, it's going to be hard to talk.

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Speaker 3: Where O where your phone is? All of the above,

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Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, But I'm really glad that that

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Speaker 3: they were able to recover and get released. That's incredible,

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Speaker 3: And we got to get get back into this. Did

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Speaker 3: have They never released a motive or we don't know

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Speaker 3: why he shot these people? We know nothing. It feels

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Speaker 3: like the story kind of died a little bit, at

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Speaker 3: least from my perspective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right, because there was there was

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Speaker 2: a few days of a little mayhem in the news

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Speaker 2: and the pictures of this alleged suspect Vance Bolter in

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Speaker 2: that creepy mass going up to the door.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's right. He had that weird plastic

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Speaker 3: it's one of those masks that go over your whole head.

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Speaker 3: And he looked like Uncle Fester, we're precarious. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: so terrifying.

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Speaker 2: And then yeah, it was really just bits and pieces,

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Speaker 2: but we'll see what happens. And there was also one

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Speaker 2: of your favorite words, so with some semblance of a

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Speaker 2: light manifesto if I'm remembering.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But my understanding it was it wasn't really a

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Speaker 3: manifesto so much as it was a notebook like with

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Speaker 3: notes of things to do, kind of like you know,

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Speaker 3: a list, like a checklist. And it also had things

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Speaker 3: like it had a list of politicians' names on them.

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Speaker 3: It also had like websites to use to do background checks,

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Speaker 3: like ben Verified, Spochio like lists so that he could

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Speaker 3: find out where these politicians lived. So listen, remove your

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Speaker 3: remove your information from those websites. You can go to

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Speaker 3: those websites been verified, for instance, and remove your information

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Speaker 3: so that you cannot be searched. I cannot recommend that enough.

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Speaker 3: Scrub your name from the Internet.

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Speaker 2: And if you haven't looked yourself up on these websites,

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Speaker 2: you will be shocked. It will likely have your age, right,

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Speaker 2: your profession, it will have some of your I was

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Speaker 2: going to say, accomplishes, acquaintances, family members. I mean, so

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Speaker 2: much personal information that is dangerous in so many potential ways,

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Speaker 2: not just physically at all. But fine, you know what's

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Speaker 2: interesting about you know what's interesting. It's kind of I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's bitter sweet. But the other Congressman that got Senator

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Speaker 2: that got shot, the woe that passed away. Yes, their

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Speaker 2: dog was buried with them and they lay in State.

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Speaker 2: It's the first dog ever to be buried at State.

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Speaker 2: I think that's so sweet and so sad, but very sweet.

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Speaker 2: They announced it at one of the baseball games and

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Speaker 2: everyone in the audience was teary eyed.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I just thought that was I don't know, it's sad

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Speaker 3: but also uplifting in a way that you know their

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Speaker 3: beloved or dog is with them. Yeah, that's right. Well,

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Speaker 3: coming up, we're going to be diving into the infamous

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Speaker 3: Golden State Killer stick around for that, and in the

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Speaker 3: second hour, we'll be sharing the story of Marcia P. Johnson,

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Speaker 3: whose suspicious death rocked the LGBTQ community. Stay right here,

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Speaker 3: True Grime to that. This is True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 3: where we talk true crime all the time. Coming up

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Speaker 3: in this segment, we have some updates, updates on Barry Morphew,

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Speaker 3: who was re arrested for the murder of his wife Suzanne.

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Speaker 3: What has he been up to? He was kind of

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Speaker 3: a ladies man. We're going to get into that, and

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Speaker 3: the Tiger King roars back into the news with one

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Speaker 3: of the stars facing new jail time. But now we're

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Speaker 3: going to explore the story of one of the most

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Speaker 3: infamous serial killers America has ever seen in the past

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Speaker 3: fifty years, the Golden State Killer.

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Speaker 2: So body, I know you are encyclopedic on many, if

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Speaker 2: not most, serial killers, but I have to admit this,

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Speaker 2: this came really late into my purview and it wasn't

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Speaker 2: until watching the HBO doc that I know you love

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Speaker 2: the HBO doc I'll Be Gone in the Dark, which

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Speaker 2: was told from the perspective of true crime author Michelle

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Speaker 2: McNamara a force of nature.

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Speaker 3: OHM. But that was really my first introduct So what

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Speaker 3: do we all need to know? Well, first of all,

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Speaker 3: you need to know and you probably already know this,

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Speaker 3: but Michelle McNamara was an amazing true crime well she

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Speaker 3: was really a journalist. She was incredible and honestly, she

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Speaker 3: was one of the first true crime like bloggers I

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Speaker 3: ever followed. And from a personal perspective, she was kind

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Speaker 3: of like a mentor to me. I didn't know that. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: well no, not personally, because I didn't know her. I

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Speaker 3: mean I looked up to her. She was kind of

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Speaker 3: like an idol to me. I worked with Billy Jensen

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Speaker 3: on a Rolling Stone article talking about Luca for the

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Speaker 3: first time, and Billy Jensen co wrote. He helped finish

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Speaker 3: the book for her when she passed, and he had

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Speaker 3: mentioned Billy Jensen mentioned myself to Michelle, and Michelle was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I know, I know who she is. And when he

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Speaker 3: told me, I cried, Oh because that's how important, Like

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Speaker 3: that's how much I looked up to her. AnyWho personal story,

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Speaker 3: But yeah, So she was kind of obsessed with the

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Speaker 3: Golden State Killer and this was prior of course to

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Speaker 3: his arrest in his identity, and she really was diving

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Speaker 3: in in this documentary on HBO, as you mentioned, is incredible.

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Speaker 3: I recommend it to everybody. But moving on Golden State Killer.

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Speaker 3: He used to be called ear Ons and that stood

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Speaker 3: for East Area Rapists because he started out as a rapist,

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Speaker 3: and then he was also referred to as Original night Stalker,

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Speaker 3: So ear Ons that's where that comes from. And then

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Speaker 3: you know, of course rich Ramirez in the eighties was

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Speaker 3: the night Stalker.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I didn't I knew Richard Ramirez

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Speaker 2: as the night Stalker, but this guy had that moniker first.

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Speaker 3: Yes, But the thing is is that they initially they

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Speaker 3: believed the East Area Rapist and the Original night Stalker

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Speaker 3: were two separate people. They thought, so there was the

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Speaker 3: East Area Rapist and the Original Nightstalker, but it was

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Speaker 3: really the same person. So he became the Golden State

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Speaker 3: Killer because he killed throughout California, the northern in Northern

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Speaker 3: California and southern California. So just a little kind of

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Speaker 3: succinct history on that. So he was behind a series

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Speaker 3: of rapes and murders across California in the seventies and eighties.

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Speaker 3: Decades and decades passed before a suspect was identified in

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Speaker 3: twenty eighteen. So the suspect that was identified was identified

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Speaker 3: through genetic genealogy. And we were going to bring this

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Speaker 3: up prior to the Coburger trial so that we could

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Speaker 3: get into IgG. Right, this is why we were talking

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Speaker 3: about it. But you know, the trial has been scrapped,

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Speaker 3: but we still think it's interesting and we want to, like,

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Speaker 3: we want everybody to understand what IgG is for maybe

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Speaker 3: cases that are coming. So I was like, let's still

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Speaker 3: cover this. So that's why we're here.

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Speaker 2: So the Golden State Killer or the Man of Many Names,

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Speaker 2: it's Joseph DiAngelo, right, and he was a police officer.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yep, he was a police officer. Man, there's so much.

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Speaker 3: There's so much to this. So from nineteen seventy three

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Speaker 3: to nineteen seventy six he was a police officer in Exeter, California,

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Speaker 3: so he was actually a cop. September eleventh, while serving

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Speaker 3: as that police officer, he's shot and killed Professor Claude

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Speaker 3: Snelling in front of his daughter at his Visalia, California home.

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Speaker 3: He kicked the daughter three times in the face and

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Speaker 3: then fled. So while he was a cop, he was

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Speaker 3: doing these things.

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Speaker 2: And okay, so this was oh my gosh, this obviously

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Speaker 2: wasn't in the line of duty. This was just a

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Speaker 2: thing he did as an officer. He just assaulted this

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Speaker 2: man and his daughter.

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Speaker 3: Right. He was also a police officer in Auburn, California,

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Speaker 3: from nineteen seventy six to nineteen seventy nine, and he

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Speaker 3: was fired for allegedly stealing a hammer and a can

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Speaker 3: of dog repellent. He was a cop. He started out

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Speaker 3: like burglarizing and raping people. And not only not only

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Speaker 3: raping women, but he was terrorizing them, like if your

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Speaker 3: husband was home, he would do everything in front of

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Speaker 3: the husband.

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Speaker 2: Oh so torture, torture the wife, and make the husband

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Speaker 2: watch to have its own Okay.

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Speaker 3: Right, right, okay, So he was just a really evil guy,

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Speaker 3: I mean one hundred percent. So he would break into

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Speaker 3: a victims' homes by prying open a window or door

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Speaker 3: while they slept. Sometimes he would take jewelry, id cards, cash,

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Speaker 3: you know whatever, like mementos from his victims. From nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventy eight to nineteen eighty one, the Golden State Killer

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Speaker 3: shot and killed Brian and Katie Magor, who were walking

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Speaker 3: their dog in the Sacramento area. After Brian was shot,

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Speaker 3: Katie ran and yelled for help, but Joseph DiAngelo caught

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Speaker 3: up to her and shot her in the head. The

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Speaker 3: brogaries continued in the East Bay area of northern California

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Speaker 3: and then escalated to rape. So he started out robbing people,

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Speaker 3: then he went to rapes, and then he started actually

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Speaker 3: straight up murdering people. But this is so interesting.

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Speaker 2: I mean, a progression is kind of a normal thing

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Speaker 2: that we sadly see many times in violent perpetrators. But

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Speaker 2: what you're describing is, you know the fact that he

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Speaker 2: had men and women and different ages as victims. That

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Speaker 2: is not that common usually. Yeah, most killers have a

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Speaker 2: type they do. You're listening to True crime tonight on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I'm Courtney Armstrong here with data analysts Body move in.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about the Golden Steak killer, and we want

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Speaker 2: you to weigh in. Did you know this guy had

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Speaker 2: three names before we actually found out who he was.

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Speaker 2: Join our conversation, but yeah, that just seems very rare.

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Speaker 3: It is pretty rare. So now I kind of want

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Speaker 3: to talk about how he was caught because how he

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Speaker 3: was caught is so interesting. Do you know, do you

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Speaker 3: know Paul Holes, right, yes, but of course yes, but

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Speaker 3: not everybody does. So okay, So Paul Holes is like

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Speaker 3: kind of well, first of all, he's dreamy. Okay. Second

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Speaker 3: of all, every true crime girl he thinks he's dreamy. So,

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Speaker 3: second of all, he's really famous criminalist. He has worked

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Speaker 3: on the Golden State Killer officially through law enforcement, and

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Speaker 3: he wrote a book on this, and you can you

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Speaker 3: can read his book. I can't remember the name of

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Speaker 3: it now, and now I feel stupid for mentioning it,

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Speaker 3: but we'll call it out later. Yeah, we can call

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Speaker 3: it later. If you want to know more about this,

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Speaker 3: I definitely recommend it. So how he was identified, So,

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Speaker 3: first of all, his last crime was in nineteen eighty six, okay,

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Speaker 3: you killer, he went dormant, which everyone kind of thought

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Speaker 3: he died, right, that would be the logical conclusion. But

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Speaker 3: Paul Holes really never gave up, and neither did Michelle McNamara.

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Speaker 3: And they worked together on this, by the way, which

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Speaker 3: is interesting because like she's a citizen, she's not like

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Speaker 3: a cop. Michelle wasn't a cop. She's like me, she's

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Speaker 3: just you know, person. So he became the first public

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Speaker 3: arrest obtained through genetic genealogy. So what they did, and

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Speaker 3: CC Moore talks about this too. She's a really famous

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Speaker 3: DNA expert. Every well, you know, true crime people know

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Speaker 3: who CC Moore is, But if you don't, that's who

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Speaker 3: she is. She's a really famous DNA person. Well, what

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Speaker 3: they did was they had DNA from one of the

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Speaker 3: victims from obviously the crimes, and they ran it through

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Speaker 3: the public you know, the private for profit DNA sequencing

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Speaker 3: websites like Ancestry family Match, you know those jed match

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Speaker 3: those websites, and they found like distant cousins of the

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Speaker 3: Golden State killer, and then they built family trees and

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Speaker 3: then they started narrowing it down like this person because

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Speaker 3: we have his DNA, this person likely has blue eyes,

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Speaker 3: this person likely has a lisp. You know that's not

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Speaker 3: what just came up in your genetic makeups. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: so they were able to narrow it down to Joseph

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Speaker 3: Dan and then they got trash just like with Brian Coberger,

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Speaker 3: and the DNA matched. So this was the first case

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Speaker 3: ever solved with genetic genealogy, and it was controversial at

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 2: Just like Brian Coberger, I was gonna say it's controversial

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Speaker 2: at this time. There have In our podcast the Idaho Massacre,

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Speaker 2: we did an entire segment with experts on you know,

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Speaker 2: the IgG, the genetic genealogy and do people have a

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Speaker 2: right to do it? But all these years later, like,

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Speaker 2: what is your thought on that? By the way, I

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Speaker 2: actually I think it's I'll give you mine. I think

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Speaker 2: if I put my DNA on whatever site and on

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Speaker 2: purpose or inadvertently check the box which people do of

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Speaker 2: saying okay, go ahead and use my information for whatever

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Speaker 2: you want, people are going to go ahead and use

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Speaker 2: the information for whatever they want.

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Speaker 3: Right. So my issue is, like say my third cousin

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Speaker 3: killed people. My issue comes into play when my real

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Speaker 3: name ends up in a court document because they used

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Speaker 3: my DNA to identify my third cousin or whatever. So

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Speaker 3: now I'm part of the public record that you know,

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Speaker 3: body moving is related to this person and that's how

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Speaker 3: we found you know, her third cousin. That's my only issue.

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Speaker 3: That's because our point, because that was one of the

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Speaker 3: problems with you know, Brian Coberger, is that the state

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Speaker 3: didn't or the FBI didn't want to, you know, invade

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Speaker 3: the privacy of the people of Brian Coberger's relatives, and

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Speaker 3: that's what would happen because it becomes part of the

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Speaker 3: public record. And I think that's the only, my only

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Speaker 3: real issue. But honestly, if it's for the greater good,

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Speaker 3: which it feels like it is, then I think you

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Speaker 3: know it's okay, but I do think it's a slippery slope.

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Speaker 2: Well, and many people feel differently than you. And I, oh,

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Speaker 2: absolutely hear too agree on this issue, but many many

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Speaker 2: people do not, And just think absolutely and I should

431
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 2: not be responsible for potentially revealing all the crime cousin.

432
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,159
Speaker 3: Yes, right, but if your DNA can help solve like

433
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 3: a horrible case, wouldn't you want it to I do?

434
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: I would No, I totally agree, and we want to

435
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: know what do you think should happen with your DNA.

436
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 2: Give us a call. We're at eighty eight three to

437
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 2: one crime. You can also always send us a talkback

438
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app with your thoughts on any stories

439
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: or any stories you would like us to cover. To

440
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 2: do that, when you're on the iHeart Radio app, you

441
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 2: just click on that red microphone in the upper right

442
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 2: hand corner, leave a message and you will be on

443
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 2: the show and coming up we're diving into the Preppy

444
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 2: Party murder case, and we will also be telling you

445
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: what we're binging in the true crime world, and we

446
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 2: want to hear what you are. Stay with us true

447
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 2: Crime Tonight. This is True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where

448
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 2: we talk true crime all the time. Coming up the

449
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 2: story of Marsha P. Johnson and why activists have fought

450
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: to reopen the case surrounding her alleged suicide, and we'll

451
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 2: be hearing from you. Don't forget to call in or

452
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: you can always leave us a talk back, and in fact,

453
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 2: we have a talk back that refers to last night's

454
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: show right now.

455
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 5: Okay, So I watched the Bonnie Woodward documentary and something

456
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 5: I never really understood was the I want to say convicted,

457
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 5: but maybe I'll say alleged because he's appealing it. But

458
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 5: the killer's motive because he told his wife, I have

459
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 5: killed for you. But it just didn't seem like killing

460
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 5: Bonnie was for his wife in any way. It seems

461
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 5: like if anyone, if it was for anyone, it was

462
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,719
Speaker 5: for Heather or his son. I don't know if it's

463
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 5: just something he said in the heat of the moment.

464
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, now, we kind of were wondering the same thing, like,

465
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 3: why did he say I've killed for you to his wife?

466
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: That's a great question. And this is about a case

467
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 2: we talked about last night. A woman named Bonnie Woodward.

468
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 2: She went missing from her family, and after an incredibly

469
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 2: convoluted investigation, it was found that a man named Roger Carroll, who,

470
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: as the talk packer mentioned, is appealing the case, but

471
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 2: he was found guilty of murder.

472
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 3: So Roger Carroll.

473
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 2: Was a man who had been sort of housing the

474
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 2: missing woman, Bonnie Woodward's seventeen year old daughter named Heather.

475
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 2: So those are the names that Paula was talking about.

476
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: And the subject of the doc was I've killed for you.

477
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 2: And this came out after the murderer, Roger Carol, had

478
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 2: a domestic violence incident with his wife and he said

479
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 2: those words.

480
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 3: So Heather is the stepdaughter of Bonnie, the victim, right, correct.

481
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 3: Heather goes missing and they, you know, the parents call

482
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 3: the police. Correct. Then a week later, Bonnie goes missing. Right,

483
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, we have two missing people now, right, Well,

484
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: Bonnie dies or I'm sorry, Bonnie goes missing, and then

485
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, Heather shows up. Right, yes, And

486
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 3: it's like, Okay, where the heck have you been, And

487
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 3: she's like, well, I've been staying with my boyfriend and

488
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 3: his parents, right.

489
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 2: The boy who was a friend, the boy and his parents.

490
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: The father parents is ultimately Roger Carroll and his wife.

491
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 3: Yes. In the meantime, Heather, the stepdaughter, is telling the

492
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: police that Bonnie was very cruel to her and and whatnot.

493
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 3: So it's almost like the parents of the boy she

494
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 3: was staying with believed her and for whatever reason, the father,

495
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 3: Roger Carroll killed her. Because there's no connection to Bonnie

496
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 3: and Roger, So why would he say I killed for

497
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 3: you to his wife in this middle of this domestic dispute.

498
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 3: It's very very strange, And I think the talkback was

499
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 3: really great in her observation of that, because, yeah, why

500
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 3: did he say that to his wife? There's no connection?

501
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 3: Yeah it is.

502
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,719
Speaker 2: It's a stute and I had the same I couldn't

503
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: figure out the question. I just think perhaps this man,

504
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: Roger Carroll, simply snapped, which I think you have to

505
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 2: have snapped, because the way in which he murdered this

506
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 2: poor woman, Bonnie Woodward, was he first shot her and

507
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 2: then to get rid of her body lit a fire

508
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 2: he lived on a really big property, lit a huge,

509
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: low burning fire that he and his sixteen year old

510
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: son had to watch and rake the fire to keep

511
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 2: it going for a day and a night to get

512
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: rid of the remains. So this man not only killed

513
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 2: a woman who, to everyone's knowledge, never did a bad

514
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 2: thing to him or his family, but then brought his

515
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: sixteen year old son into it. What kind of psychological

516
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: damage are you're doing there? It's implausible? Wow, So anyway,

517
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 2: I think he snapped. We can't figure out what the

518
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: heck the connection was and why he said that to his.

519
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 3: Wife either, Yeah, we don't know either. A good question. No,

520
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 3: A very interesting no answer. Right. Well, speaking of sixteen

521
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 3: year olds, Rall Valley has been acquitted of the murder

522
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 3: and all the major charges in the stabbing death of

523
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 3: seventeen year old James mccrath. The jury was deadlocked for

524
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 3: ten lesser charges, resulting in a mistrial for those counts.

525
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: They were deliberating for six days. This verdict came out today.

526
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 3: So if you don't know the story, Ral is accused

527
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 3: of stabbing James. They're both underage. Rawl was sixteen, James

528
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 3: was seventeen and James was a Connecticut prep school across player.

529
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 3: And this all happened in March of twenty twenty two,

530
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 3: and he's been found not guilty on murder and in

531
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 3: intentional manslaughter. He was also acquitted a first and second

532
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 3: degree intentional assault. The jury was deadlocked, as I mentioned,

533
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 3: on the first degree reckless manslaughter and first and second

534
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: degree reckless assault. Judge Murphy, who presided over the trial,

535
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 3: declared a mistrial on those deadlock charges. So this is

536
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 3: all breaking news as of today.

537
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 2: And also, by the way, how many mistrials and deadlock jurors.

538
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 2: I know, it's really the summer of Towerry Jerry's.

539
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 3: Really, I mean truly. So what happened?

540
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: Yea?

541
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 3: What is what is the story? Right? Well, the story

542
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 3: is is that they were you know, you're in high

543
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: school and you go to parties and whatnot. Well Raoul

544
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 3: tanded Saint Joseph High School in this is all in

545
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 3: Connecticut and McGrath the victim was a junior and Roll

546
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 3: was a sophomore, and they were all at a party

547
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 3: and a fight broke out. Okay, well it happens, Okay, Well,

548
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 3: then it continued over like a group text, and everybody

549
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 3: went to another party. Well, when they went to the

550
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 3: other party, Raoul brought a knife.

551
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: Okay, Oh my gosh, you're listening to true crime tonight.

552
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Courtney Armstrong

553
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: here with Body Moven, and we are talking about a

554
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 2: verdict that just came out today. If you went away

555
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 2: in with your thoughts, give us a call. We're at

556
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: eighty eight three one crime or hit us on the

557
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: talkbacks with the message.

558
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 3: So body.

559
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: So, it's a fight that started at a party many times,

560
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 2: and then it escalated.

561
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 3: It escalated at another separate party. Okay, so at one

562
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: point they go to the second party, and at one

563
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 3: point there's about twenty five people engaged in this like

564
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: physical altercation at this point. So it rose to the

565
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 3: level of physical altercation. And I remember these are sixteen

566
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 3: and seventeen year olds who have been drinking and out

567
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: of control, right, yeah, I remember what I was like,

568
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I'm surprised I didn't die twelve times.

569
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 3: So there's about twenty five people engaged in this fight.

570
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 3: And Raoul, who brought the knife, is literally kind of

571
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 3: like flailing this knife around. Hm. He injured multiple people. Well,

572
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: one of the people he injured was our victim, James,

573
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: and he died as a result. The knife punctured his

574
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: heart and he bled out into his lungs. It's really really.

575
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 2: Sad and how needless and what a waste of several

576
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: young lives, obviously not just James McGrath who lost his life.

577
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 3: But also to know the accused or right, I guess,

578
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 3: so he quitted. Yeah, he testified on his own behalf,

579
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: which is pretty rare, right, So he got up on

580
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 3: the stand and there was pretty emotional testimony. He said

581
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 3: he never intended to kill anyone. He said a friend

582
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: handed him the knife during a large fight. I also

583
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 3: read that he brought the knife to the fight. I'm

584
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 3: not sure which is true. He said a friend handed

585
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 3: him the knife during this fight involving you know, dozens,

586
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 3: like I said, twenty five different teenagers who surrounded him.

587
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: He said that he felt overwhelmed and scared. He let

588
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 3: said it with self defense, and he alleged that at

589
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 3: one point during the fight he lost consciousness. Like you

590
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 3: know how he kind of joke around sometimes I just

591
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 3: blacked out. I don't know what I's right, It's like

592
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 3: that's kind of what happened to him, and it was

593
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 3: he was pretty emotional on the stand, and he further

594
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: said he was just kind of like swinging this knife

595
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: in all directions just to like in self defense. So,

596
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 3: you know, and I think the jury, you know, bought it.

597
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: I mean, and I don't. I don't have any reason

598
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 3: to not think he's not telling the truth. But you know,

599
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: in the heat of the moment, it was an accident,

600
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: he says, and he was self defending.

601
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 2: And this goes back to so many of the cases

602
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: we've been talking about recently in terms of what people

603
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: are being charged with and if they are being overcharged

604
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: or charged. This teenager Royal Valley, you know, he was

605
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 2: acquitted of murder, but where were the other charges? Because

606
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: even the what what you've been describing and what he

607
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: said on the stand, it does seem you know, I

608
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: don't I don't know what the correct charge would be, manslaughter, accident.

609
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 3: Involuntary, right, you know, but it yeah, it just seems

610
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: like prosecutors because they're the ones who levy the charges

611
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 3: against the defendants, right, And it feels like maybe this

612
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 3: tough on crime, you know stance that you know, we

613
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 3: have right now which is pretty severe, is just maybe

614
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 3: going a little bit too far, and the jury's not

615
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 3: you know, the jury is supposed to be the average American, right,

616
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 3: and I think the average American is just like come on,

617
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 3: you know, like this is just too much. They're not

618
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 3: putting up with this anymore. Now. Obviously nobody wants to

619
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 3: be soft on crime. I mean, certainly, but this was

620
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 3: a fight that just got out of hand. Now the

621
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 3: father of James is of course, you know, the victim

622
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 3: is very disappointed, but he did say that he thinks

623
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 3: he's just in shock and he doesn't really have a

624
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: reaction right now. Again, this just happened today, right, so

625
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 3: he still needs to kind of come to terms with

626
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 3: being in our heart goes out to him. I do

627
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 3: believe that they that role was overcharged.

628
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: He was overcharged, and you know, it kind of goes

629
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 2: an in an effort to be tough on crime. And

630
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: you know, if you do agree it's an overcharge, it

631
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 2: really ends in a miscarriage of justice because if the

632
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: jury is overcorrecting for what they see is an overcharge,

633
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 2: then people who did do a bad thing right walk

634
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: free versus have maybe the punishment that would have fit

635
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: the actual crime that was perpetrated, and right now we

636
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: have a talk back.

637
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: Hi.

638
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 7: Everyone, I wanted to say that I love the show.

639
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 7: I was listening to Tuesday Nights episode and I love

640
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 7: how Courtney always mispronounces the accused name. She said it

641
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 7: like three different ways, like Farley Farlin in another way

642
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 7: she did it in another episode as well. Also, can

643
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 7: we please have a T shirt that says allegedly allegedly

644
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 7: allegedly because I love what Stephanie says that thanks, guys,

645
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 7: have a great day.

646
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 3: I love you. First of all, Courtney's face is like

647
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: bright red, right, you could see face. Listen, this is hard.

648
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 3: This is like hard because you know you want to

649
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 3: be you want to get everything right right, like you

650
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 3: want to get every thing perfect. And the more you

651
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,719
Speaker 3: want to get things perfect for me at least, the

652
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: more I mess it up, right, especially pronunciations of names.

653
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 3: It's hard sometimes it is.

654
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 2: And listen the truth, the truth. I will take being

655
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 2: called out. I will do my best, which is all

656
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: any of us can do. But on the allegedly allegedly

657
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 2: allegedly from.

658
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: First of all, I love that idea. Yes, so one thing,

659
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 3: our one thing, little little like inside baseball behind the scenes.

660
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 3: One thing our one thing our producer always says before

661
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 3: the show is because we're always getting nervous, right, You're

662
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 3: we're not used to being on the air live, right.

663
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 3: We're used to having like really you know, professionally edited content,

664
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 3: so being live is kind of new for us. Right.

665
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 3: So one thing our producer always says right before the

666
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 3: show starts is vibes, you know. And I don't know why,

667
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: but whenever I see him say that, it's just like, okay,

668
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 3: kind of calms me down. So maybe we could do

669
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: allegedly allegedly allegedly and like vibes or something like on

670
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 3: the back. That would be That would be the best

671
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 3: one ever. I love shirt designing. In my mind, I love

672
00:34:59,280 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 3: that idea.

673
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: Thank But I have to say, even Boddy, you mentioned

674
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 2: the editing and all of the above, right, and listen,

675
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 2: having done a lot of podcast with KT Studios, even

676
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 2: with the editing, and even when I'm very involved in

677
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: the editing, still things come out. Still, the mispronunciations, Listen,

678
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 2: people will mess it up allegedly.

679
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 3: But I love that. I think it's a great I

680
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 3: would wear that shirt every day. Oh my gosh. We

681
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 3: really do have to do you know there's all kinds

682
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 3: of different like true crime people too, write Like there's

683
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 3: people who only focus on like raising awareness for missing people,

684
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 3: you know, like that that's their entire genre. Sometimes they

685
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 3: only focus on missing children. I follow many people on YouTube,

686
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 3: and you know, they'll only focus on one specific kind

687
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 3: of case, like murder. Like I I prefer to talk

688
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 3: this is crazy, but I prefer to talk about murders

689
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 3: where other people prefer to talk about like Stephanie, like

690
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:08,439
Speaker 3: these these horrible, juicy albeit juicy like scandals with celebrities.

691
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 3: You know, there's just all kinds of things too, and

692
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: we've kind of come together, so it's kind of like

693
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: a hodgepodge and yeah, we're gonna we're gonna mispronounce things.

694
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 3: It's gonna happen, that's right.

695
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 2: And also I am always appealed to by interpersonal relationships

696
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: behind crimes.

697
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 3: That is kind of Oh is that what you mean?

698
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: That's that is my most if I had to put

699
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 2: it into a bucket or on a T shirt. But listen,

700
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: keep the talkbacks coming later in the show. Seventeen year

701
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: old Sarah Grace Patrick has been arrested in charge on

702
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 2: suspicion that she murdered her mother and her stepfather. This

703
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 2: is a scandal about to happen. Give us a call.

704
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: We're at eighty eight three one crime. Do not forget

705
00:36:50,200 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 2: to keep it here? Sure rhymes and I this is

706
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 2: true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We are talking true crime

707
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 2: all the time. Body, I think you have something to

708
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: tell us about Barry Morphew. And it sounds like he

709
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: hasn't been behaving.

710
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 3: No, he was not behaving while he was not on

711
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: the run but released from jail. So we've covered this

712
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 3: case before. But if you're not familiar, Barry Morphew is

713
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 3: accused for the second time of killing his wife, Suzanne

714
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 3: Morphew in twenty twenty. Well, he was recently re arrested.

715
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 3: So he was arrested in twenty twenty one, and he

716
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 3: was let go because there was some like prosecutorial misconduct.

717
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 3: But what it boiled down to is that they just

718
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: didn't have enough evidence to keep pressing, you know, keep

719
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 3: it going, so they released him without prejudice, which means

720
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 3: charges can be brought against him again because it was

721
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 3: never tried or found guilty or fund acquitted or anything

722
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 3: like that.

723
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: And it was the messy it was without prejudice because

724
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: the attorney was so poorly behaved or poorly did the case.

725
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 3: Right, so they could they can re apply charges to

726
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 3: him when they deemed necessary, which they recently just did,

727
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 3: so they re arrested him. But he had moved from

728
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 3: Colorado to Arizona, and apparently while in Arizona he was

729
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 3: trying to be a bit of a lady's man. And

730
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 3: it's pretty interesting. So he lived about six hundred miles

731
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 3: away in the you know, in the middle of this investigation,

732
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 3: he moved to Cave Creek, Arizona, and residents knew that

733
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 3: Barry Murphy by a different name as he realized about

734
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: his life. Yeah, he didn't. He didn't go by his name,

735
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 3: which is very interesting and kind of new.

736
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: So she vanished on Mother's Day. Oh sorry, go ahead,

737
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 2: I was gonna say it is new information. I certainly

738
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 2: didn't know it. But wouldn't you do the same thing.

739
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 2: Wouldn't anyone if if you'd been accused and then charges

740
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 2: were taken away and you were trying, and you had

741
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: been in the news and everyone knew what you were

742
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 2: are alleged to have done.

743
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 3: I don't know I would change point, but I think

744
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 3: it was just I think it's just so heinous because

745
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: he actually, well he's not been he's not been convicted,

746
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 3: but in my mind he's guilty, right, you know what

747
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 3: I mean, Like he's already been like throw the way

748
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 3: to key. But yeah, you you bring up a good point.

749
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 3: Like if if if I was accused of something and

750
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 3: got released because they couldn't really find the evidence, I'd

751
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 3: be like, Okay, well now my name is Sabrina you

752
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 3: know or whatever. Fresh. Yeah, I'd probably do that, but

753
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 3: I would probably legally change my name. I would just

754
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 3: tell people my name is something different, you know what

755
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 3: I mean. I would probably legally change.

756
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 2: But you're smart like that and think ahead Barry.

757
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 3: One restaurant employee in Cave Creek said that he didn't

758
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 3: know Barry by his first name and thought he was

759
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 3: an entirely different person. Charlie LUTs. By the way, I

760
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 3: love that name, Charlie Lutz. He's the bar manager at

761
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 3: Harold's Cave Creek Coral Say that six times in a row.

762
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 3: Told Fox News Digital that Barry went by the name

763
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 3: Bruce and Loots. I'm gonna call him because I love that.

764
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,479
Speaker 3: Lutz didn't know Barry's real name, Barry's real name until

765
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 3: June twentieth. He said he began seeing Barry or Bruce

766
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 3: as he knew him after the coronavirus pandemic. So, of course,

767
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 3: his wife was murdered in May of twenty twenty and

768
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 3: if you remember, that was the height of coronavirus, that

769
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 3: was the height of COVID, that was the height of

770
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 3: lockdowns and everything like that. So of course, after everything

771
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 3: was over, Barry moved to Arizona. He began, you know,

772
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 3: hanging out at the bars, and apparently his favorite drink

773
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 3: was beer, and he would switch between Miller Lite and

774
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 3: Coors Lights. And he was always approached by other women,

775
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 3: so women were also coming up to him at the bar.

776
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 3: He was a bit of a lady's man. Barry himself

777
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 3: would also approach other women, so it was reciprocal. Libby

778
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 3: another character here, Libby Spurl, said that she was one

779
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 3: of the women Barry flirt with at Harold's Cave Creek Corral.

780
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 3: She said that while she was there in March of

781
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, Barry asked if she wanted to dance.

782
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 3: He walked right up to me and he said, Hi,

783
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 3: do you want to dance and I said, you're Barry Morphew.

784
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: She recognized him immediately, She recognized him media and he said, no, no,

785
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 3: I think you have the wrong person. He denied it.

786
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 3: He denied it was him. A bit later she said,

787
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 3: an individual approached them both and introduced Barry as Lee Lee.

788
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 3: So now it's going by a couple of names.

789
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna pause on this real quick and not

790
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 2: to make too much like because I know this is

791
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: an alleged murderer we're speaking about, is for sure, but

792
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 2: tell me, this doesn't sound like the most quaint sort

793
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: of beach book that you would read. And just with

794
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 2: the Cave Creek Corral and Libby Spurrell and lutes and right, yeah, it's.

795
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 3: A bit of a character bit of these bit of

796
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 3: characters are coming out. But yeah, so this individual who

797
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 3: approached them said that his name was Lee and he

798
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 3: was from Indiana. Now it's interesting because Barry is from Indiana.

799
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 3: So there were like half truths sprinkled throughout. And apparently

800
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 3: he went by the alias Lee Moore. But again other

801
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 3: people knew him as Bruce. It's just a little bit

802
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 3: of a background in Floh. Yeah, this interesting.

803
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 2: This is what Barry Morphew aka Lee Moore aka.

804
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 3: Bruce Bruce, Yeah, Bruce. But yeah, so that's that's the

805
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 3: background on that. But we're following this case pretty closely.

806
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 3: We you know, her body was what was found in

807
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, I think, and there was evidence that

808
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 3: her body had been moved. Susanne Morphew, Barry and Morphew,

809
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 3: Barry's wife, right, And so yeah, this is this was

810
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 3: just interesting because it's just brand new information about what

811
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 3: he was doing while the investigation was going on.

812
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's the time some way, and you

813
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 2: are passing it by listening to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio,

814
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 2: and we appreciate that.

815
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 3: I'm Courtney Armstrong.

816
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: I'm here with Body Move In and we've been talking

817
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 2: about the new life that accused murderer, Barry Morphew has

818
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 2: allegedly created for himself. What are your thoughts if you

819
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 2: had to recreate a life for yourself, what would it be?

820
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: What would your bake name be?

821
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 2: Give us a call eighty eight through one Crime or

822
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 2: hit us on the talkbacks. When you're on the iHeartRadio app,

823
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: you just go to that little icon in the top

824
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: right and leave us a message, and you will be

825
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: on the show. So I wanted to go into a

826
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: different story body and this just popped on my radar. Yes, yes,

827
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: my niece sent it to me and I know you

828
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 2: follow everything. But this story is about a seventeen year

829
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 2: old girl named Sarah Grace Patrick. She has turned herself

830
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 2: in from murdering her parents in Carol County.

831
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is making the rounds. Right before air, I

832
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,479
Speaker 3: was getting messages about this. So it's too early to call.

833
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 3: But this could be another big story. Yeah, this is

834
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 3: this is going to be this is going to be

835
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 3: a thing.

836
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 2: It's just coming out. So we have sort of top

837
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: line information. But like Buddy said, I bet some cash

838
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 2: we will be following it. So on February twentieth of

839
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,479
Speaker 2: this year, and this was in Georgia, Kristin Brock forty

840
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: one years old and James Brock forty five years old,

841
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 2: they were found shot dead in bed by.

842
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 3: Their six year old daughter. Oh horrible.

843
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:14,439
Speaker 2: Their daughter discovered their bodies and Sarah Grace Patrick, who

844
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 2: has since turned herself in. She was sixteen at the time.

845
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 2: She called nine one one and reported the incident.

846
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's her other daughter. So they have two daughters,

847
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 3: once around them six years old and Sarah who is sixteen,

848
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 3: who's also their daughter, called nine one one right, correct.

849
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: And then just yesterday, the Carroll County Sheriff's Office confirmed

850
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 2: in a press conference that Sarah Grace Patrick now seventeen,

851
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 2: voluntarily turned herself in for a rest in relation to

852
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 2: the murders, and she has been charged as an adult,

853
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: and she has been charged with two counts of murders

854
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 2: for the death of Kristin and James Brock. Correct me

855
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, her mother and her stepfather.

856
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 3: Is that correct? Yeah, that's my descnding, Okay, And.

857
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 2: So it's two counts of murder and two counts of

858
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: aggravate to assault. So this is horrible on its face,

859
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 2: but then it gets strange as well as horrible and tragic.

860
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 2: So authorities have described a relentless investigation, and this was

861
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 2: in cooperation with the Carroll County Sheriff's Office, the FBI,

862
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation Crime Lab. So lots

863
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 2: of people working together to solve this, and it involves

864
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 2: extensive physical and digital forensic evidence. There's ballistics, there's gunshot residue,

865
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 2: and countless interviews which have not yet been released, right.

866
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 3: And one thing that's I think the reason that this

867
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 3: is kind of becoming something that people are talking about

868
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 3: is an account on TikTok with the name Sarah Grace

869
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 3: has been messaging true crime creators asking them to cover

870
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 3: this case prior to her rest after it happened. So

871
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 3: it's I think that's one of the reasons it's kind

872
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 3: of like blowing up right now on social media because

873
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 3: the killer is asking true crime creators like us, right

874
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 3: cover this case. Yes, it's interesting, it is.

875
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 2: And additionally, and again this is this is early days,

876
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: so everything very early substantiated, so we're going to take

877
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 2: this with a hunk of salt. But also on social

878
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 2: media accounts that do appear to belong to this Sarah

879
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 2: Grace Patrick, she was also saying, you know, I miss

880
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 2: my mommy, and was.

881
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 3: Almost almost like an attention thing, like she wanted the

882
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 3: attention of like who maybe social media influencers or you know,

883
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 3: people that have who who she thinks have like a

884
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 3: large following, you know, like she just wanted attention. That's

885
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 3: what it seems like right now. At least, this is

886
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 3: very early, very very early. It's incredibly early.

887
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: And we do know that one of the main factors

888
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,879
Speaker 2: in the investigation, and I imagine the you know, ongoing prosecution,

889
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: is her digital footprint. So what she was doing online

890
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 2: is going to play a really big part in this.

891
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 2: And again, if the information we have is all correct,

892
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: then yeah, it's she seems like a very disturbed girl

893
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 2: who was I mean, I can't say a motive of

894
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 2: doing this for attention, but certainly trying to garner.

895
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 3: I mean, I've we've seen it before. I mean, we've

896
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 3: seen we've seen people kill for attention before. I mean,

897
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 3: this wouldn't be the first time. This might be one

898
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 3: of the first times a daughter has killed her mother

899
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 3: and stepfather for attention. But we again, we don't know

900
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 3: the motive. But that's what that's what the chatter is

901
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: right now, right the chatter, it's what I call the

902
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 3: people talking online, people who are because people are already

903
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 3: sussing this out, They're already sleuthing, you know, all kinds

904
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 3: of things for social media, because all that stuff is

905
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 3: still up. It hasn't been taken down yet.

906
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 2: Right and listen, authorities have not ruled out anything, including

907
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 2: the possibility that others may have been involved. There is

908
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 2: no clear sign of staging, explanation, or forced entry, so we'll,

909
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 2: you know, we'll keep covering it as more information comes out.

910
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,919
Speaker 2: So Pride Month technically is over, but we are going

911
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 2: to continue to highlight stories of members of the LGBTQ commune,

912
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: which is always underserved in terms of media reporting on

913
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: crimes and body. I know that's something that you feel

914
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 2: very strongly about.

915
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do in something that you know, I mean,

916
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 3: obviously any marginalized community, I'm like, you know, all in right,

917
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 3: but as part of that community, it hits especially hard.

918
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 3: So I do like to bring awareness where I see

919
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 3: it's necessary. In you know, Marcia Johnson, she's a pioneer

920
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 3: and the fact that the police department are practically relooking

921
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 3: at her case is kind of a big deal. She's credited,

922
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 3: you know, and it's often debated. I don't know if

923
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 3: you guys know what Stonewall is, but it's kind of

924
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 3: the beginning of gay rights movement, and she is credited

925
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 3: as basically throwing the first brick. Yeah, but I will

926
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 3: say she herself denies it, but she Yeah, there's many

927
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 3: different people that have become icons in the community that

928
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 3: have been accredited to throwing the first brick, and she

929
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 3: is one of them. Okay, so it's very interesting, but

930
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 3: it takes a.

931
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 2: Lot of heroes shoulders to stand on and whoever through

932
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 2: the first brick.

933
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 3: Marcia P.

934
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 2: Johnson was a black transgender activist and an icon, as

935
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 2: you just said, body. And she was found dead in

936
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: the Hudson River and this was near the Christopher Street

937
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 2: Pier in New York City. This was back in nineteen

938
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: ninety two, so quite a bit ago. Initially, her death

939
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 2: was ruled a suicide, but friends and advocates, many people

940
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 2: have long suspected that there was foul play. They pointed

941
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 2: to a sign of a struggle, and she also had

942
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: a history of being harassed. The case was reopened in

943
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 2: twenty twelve. It still remains unsolved, but it's also a

944
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 2: case that continues to be a symbol of violence faced

945
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 2: by transgender people.

946
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 3: Right, and imagine being a transgender woman back then. I

947
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 3: mean it's hard enough today, right, even though there's been many,

948
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 3: you know, many people in society who are very accepting,

949
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 3: but back then, oh, you know, you re called every

950
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 3: name in the book. Of course, she was harassed. So

951
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 3: the fact that she ends up in a river, you know,

952
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 3: in the Hudson River, it's very suspect. And obviously her

953
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 3: friends are you know, raising the red flags for decades

954
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 3: now saying that she was She wasn't suicidal. She wasn't

955
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 3: that person, right, you know, she lived a full and

956
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 3: lovely life, and she was constantly harassed, constantly, right, she

957
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 3: was very outspoken for you know, demanding gay rights at

958
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 3: a time when you didn't even admit you were gay.

959
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 3: That's right. She was one hundred percent targeted all the time.

960
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 3: So when her body ends up in the Hudson River,

961
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 3: like I said, it's you know, to people in the community,

962
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 3: it was pretty obvious that something had happened to her.

963
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, and this was as I said back in

964
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, and Marsha P. Johnson's body was floating

965
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 2: in the river and she had been lasting alive shortly

966
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 2: after the Pride March in New York City. She was

967
00:50:55,640 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 2: found fully clothed, very very quickly. The NYPD ruled her

968
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 2: death of suicide, but there was immediate skepticism from people

969
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 2: close to her. And it wasn't just the LGBTQ plus

970
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 2: community challenging the ruling, but Martha had a very suspect

971
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 2: or some people say suspect wound on the back of

972
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 2: her head that didn't go with drowning yourself to death.

973
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 2: And you know, just a wildly optimistic demeanor and many

974
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 2: many plans for the.

975
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 3: Future, right, I mean, like she had a lot of

976
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 3: hope for the gay rights in the United States. It

977
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 3: was just a weird time, you know, for this person

978
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 3: who is kind of like a leading voice for gay rights,

979
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 3: and right after a parade to kill themselves. Although listen,

980
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 3: I think I said this before, but like anytime somebody

981
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 3: commits suicide, I think we're always kind of in denial,

982
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 3: like yes, you know, because people like you're just you're

983
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 3: always surprised. It's never like, oh I expected that, you know,

984
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 3: It's always a surprise in the shock. So I think

985
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 3: we have to keep them in mind. But at the

986
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 3: same time, it was just, you know, according to her,

987
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 3: you know, people that knew her, this just wasn't something

988
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 3: that she would do at this time. This was like

989
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 3: a really important time, you know, And if you put

990
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 3: yourself back in that time in the nineties, Bill Clinton

991
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 3: had just been elected. You know, if you were gay

992
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 3: in the military, you couldn't be gay in the military,

993
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 3: and then it became don't ask, don't tell, you know,

994
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 3: there was there was a lot of things happening in

995
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 3: a gay community for her to see, kind of like

996
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 3: hope coming right. Yeah, it would just be like a

997
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 3: really really odd time to do this. This wound leads

998
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 3: people to believe that she was attacked and thrown in

999
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 3: the river.

1000
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a large, gaping wound on the back

1001
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,839
Speaker 2: of her head. That's really not consistent with drowning yourself

1002
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 2: or falling and very likely to be to not be

1003
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 2: self inflicted on the back of your head. There were

1004
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 2: also eyewitness reports that claimed that Marcia had been harassed

1005
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: by a group of men shortly before her death. Right,

1006
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: and also there was ignored testimonies. There was an individual

1007
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 2: who reportedly told police they saw Marcia being chased and

1008
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 2: possibly pushed into the river. And this was one of

1009
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,720
Speaker 2: the leads that was never thoroughly investigated.

1010
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 3: Oh wow, See, I didn't know that. I didn't know

1011
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 3: that part at all. Well, you're listening to True crime

1012
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 3: tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Body Movin and I'm here with

1013
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 3: Courtney or I'm Strong, and we're right in the middle

1014
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 3: of talking about Marcia p. Johnson, and we're going to

1015
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 3: get into some good news in a moment, so stick

1016
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 3: around for that. If you want to give us a call,

1017
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 3: give us a call at eight eight eight thirty one

1018
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 3: Crime or use the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app. So

1019
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 3: I didn't know that there were ignored testimonies and that

1020
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 3: they didn't really thoroughly investigate, but I'm not surprised. So again,

1021
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 3: you have to put yourself back in the early nineties

1022
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 3: at a time when Bill Clinton had just been elected,

1023
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 3: We had just come out of the Bush era, yeah,

1024
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 3: the war, and you just remember what was going on.

1025
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 3: If you're old like me and you can remember, you

1026
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 3: know that time I was like, you know, I was ating,

1027
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, I remember all this very very well.

1028
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 3: And so that's time, you know, it would be normal

1029
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,720
Speaker 3: for a group of men to be harassing a transgender woman.

1030
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 3: It would be it would be kind of the norm thing.

1031
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,240
Speaker 3: And I'm kind of wondering if the cops again not today,

1032
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 3: but back then, would have been like, eh, you know whatever.

1033
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 2: Well, even even more than or on top of that

1034
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 2: body is there was a lot of people in the

1035
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 2: community and people who knew Marsha that raised a lot

1036
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 2: of speculation around police or mafia involvement in her death

1037
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 2: and THEA Yes mafia in New York. This was something

1038
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 2: that has come up over the years and that Marsha

1039
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 2: was targeted due to her activism and her community ties.

1040
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 3: You know, there's a documentary on Netflix about her, and

1041
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 3: I'm gonna watch it. I haven't seen it. It's called

1042
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 3: The Death and Life of Martha P. Johnson. So I'm

1043
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 3: going to watch that and I'm going to add it

1044
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 3: to my little list of documentaries who're watching because I

1045
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 3: heard it's good. I just haven't seen it yet. But

1046
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 3: if you want to learn more about about Marcia P. Johnson, obviously,

1047
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 3: I think that if if you're in the community, obviously

1048
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 3: you probably should know about her. But even if you're

1049
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 3: not in the community, support, you know, be an ally

1050
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,879
Speaker 3: and maybe watch it, talk about it with your friends

1051
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 3: and see what happens. So I've got some good news. Yeah,

1052
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 3: you guys want to hear some good news, because listen,

1053
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 3: we don't have or have a lot. There's been some

1054
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 3: good news in the community in the LGBTQ community Pennsylvania.

1055
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:16,280
Speaker 3: Pittsburgh City Council has unanimously passed three landmark ordinances today

1056
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 3: and today, protecting LGBTQ residents through real legal mechanisms rather

1057
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 3: than just symbolic statements. Right, Like a lot of the times,

1058
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 3: like politicians will get there and just be like, we

1059
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 3: stand with you, But this is like real, meaningful, you know, legislation. First,

1060
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 3: the city has moved to explicitly ban health care providers

1061
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 3: from denying elective gender affirming medical treatments like hormone therapy

1062
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,760
Speaker 3: or surgeries based on the patient's gender identity or expression.

1063
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 3: Complaints can now be raised, with the city's Commission on

1064
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 3: Human Relations closing a gap in the public accommodations laws,

1065
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 3: asserting that trans healthcare is real health care. So that's

1066
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,399
Speaker 3: pretty big news. I'm reading that it's been gigantic. It's

1067
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 3: gigantic's big deal, body, you know, it's it's a really

1068
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 3: big deal. So that's that's some good news. They also

1069
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 3: there's more the same in Pittsburgh preemptively pledged to deprioritize

1070
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 3: enforcement of any state or federal law that criminalize LGBTQ

1071
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 3: individuals for engaging in lawful acts such as drag bathroom use.

1072
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 3: That's what I really care about a lot, right, I

1073
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 3: talk about that one quite a bit displaying pride flags

1074
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 3: or being in gender affirming care. If restrictions arise in Pennsylvania,

1075
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 3: there's going to be penalties. Basically, if they make a

1076
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 3: rule that, you know, if you were born a male

1077
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 3: but now you to identify as female and you can't

1078
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 3: use that restroom, there will be penalties. So that's really great,

1079
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 3: that's really good news. And you know, we just covered

1080
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 3: Katie Glass, who of course was a female who went

1081
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 3: to the bathroom and she was attacked. So these kinds

1082
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:58,800
Speaker 3: of things will will really help protect and make LGT

1083
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 3: people in the community feel s a at least in Pittsburgh.

1084
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 3: But it's so it's a start, it's but it's in.

1085
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 3: It's good news, and so it's always all nice to

1086
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 3: include some good news in the mix. So I'm happy.

1087
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,240
Speaker 3: I'm happy to do that absolutely.

1088
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 2: That is I love that there's actual steps that will

1089
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:13,280
Speaker 2: change people's lives.

1090
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that we can seek about. Well, stick around. We

1091
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 3: have more coming up. And why is the star from

1092
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 3: Netflix this Tiger King been sent into a year in prison.

1093
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 3: Let's chat about what true crime content you're loving lately.

1094
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 3: Give us a call at eight eight eight thirty one

1095
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 3: Crime with your thoughts. On any of Tonight's stories, or

1096
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 3: use the talk back on the iHeartRadio app keep it

1097
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 3: right here, True Crime Tonight. This is True Crime Tonight,

1098
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 3: where we talk true crime all the time. We have

1099
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 3: our very own Netflix documentary scandal that doesn't involve me.

1100
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 3: I'm so excited. I'm so excited. So I assume everybody

1101
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 3: watched Tiger King and when we were all in lockdown, Yes,

1102
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 3: I know that I certainly did. And I remember, you know,

1103
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 3: it was right after mine came out. It was literally

1104
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 3: like a month later, and so my name was really

1105
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 3: big back then with cats and don't cats right winning,

1106
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: And so my email was just bombarded with you have

1107
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 3: to find the Carol Baskins husband again. I always like

1108
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 3: to go back in time and put myself back in

1109
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 3: these times. Well, there was another Tiger King documentary that

1110
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 3: came out and it featured Doc this and other character

1111
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 3: doc Antle okay, and so it was the first Tiger

1112
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 3: King from twenty nineteen that we all no one love

1113
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 3: right with the Joe Exotic, right, and then there's another one.

1114
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 2: Yep, Joe Exotic is really a little tattooed on my

1115
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 2: brain and just the visuals he just I really couldn't

1116
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 2: stop looking at him. And one of my biggest COVID memories,

1117
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: now that you brought me back to that time, was

1118
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 2: we were all figuring out, you know, we're washing our

1119
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 2: groceries or not nobody what many people are wearing masks.

1120
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 2: I was one of them, and a lot of them

1121
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 2: that I had, for whatever reason, were sort of leopard

1122
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 2: prints or I'm like, let's get stylish with these masks.

1123
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 3: I dazzled some. Yeah, I get it, but.

1124
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 2: I had them hanging and I remember they just reminded

1125
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,919
Speaker 2: me so much of the little thongs, oh my god,

1126
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 2: that he wore on Tiger King, and it was it

1127
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 2: was a big joke taking pictures.

1128
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, those tiny little things. Yeah. So he

1129
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 3: was very entertaining. You know, my favorite thing to do

1130
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 3: is look at his tweets because he always tweets like

1131
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 3: Kim Kardashian and Donald Trump give me out of jail,

1132
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 3: Like he's he's so dramatic. And also I would be two.

1133
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 3: If I was, I would not survive in prison. So

1134
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,919
Speaker 3: I mean, I get it. But let's talk about doc Antle. Yeah.

1135
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 3: Doc Antle is in the second Tiger King, and not

1136
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 3: as many people watch that one, but it is a

1137
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 3: good Tiger King to watch. So doc Antle is set

1138
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 3: to one year in prison for animal trafficking. Now, if

1139
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 3: you watch the Second Tiger King, you'll also know that

1140
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 3: he's been accused of grooming miners, so that's another thing.

1141
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 3: But he denies those allegations, and I don't think he

1142
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 3: has faced charges in any capacity for these allegations. But

1143
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 3: the allegations were strong enough that they made it into

1144
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 3: the documentary, so it's just a worth a mention. So

1145
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 3: he's was sentenced Tuesday to one year and a day

1146
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 3: in federal prison and find fifty five thousand dollars for

1147
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 3: trafficking exotic animals and money laundering after he pled guilty

1148
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 3: in November of twenty twenty three. These animal traffickers, I

1149
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 3: just cannot stand them, so it's hard for me to

1150
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 3: remain unemotional. So this is the final sentence in this

1151
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 3: true life chapter the Tiger Kings Saga. His zoo was

1152
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 3: known for charging hundreds or thousands of dollars to let

1153
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 3: people pet and hold baby animals like lions, tigers, and

1154
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 3: monkeys that were so young they were still being bottle fed.

1155
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 3: Sometimes he would ride into the tours on an elephant.

1156
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 3: And he would wear like this really crazy like Safari

1157
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 3: likeumit no, not a turbine, but you know, like those

1158
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 3: Safari hats, oh okay. And he would wear like, you know,

1159
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 3: like the tooth earrings. He was just like a character.

1160
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 3: All these animal traffickers are cut from the same cloth.

1161
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 3: You know. I can get into tiraids about this, but

1162
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 3: I'm not going to. I'm I'm gonna be professionals. So

1163
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 3: prosecutor said he sought or bought cheetahs, lions, tigers, and

1164
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 3: a chimpanzee without the proper paperwork, and in a separate scheme,

1165
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 3: he laundered more than five hundred thousand dollars that an

1166
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 3: informant told him was being used to get people into

1167
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 3: the United States illegally for work.

1168
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 2: Can I pause you for a hot second, because is

1169
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 2: there proper paperwork for buying cheetahs, lions, tigers or chimpanzees?

1170
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 2: Can I Can I have a chimpanzee?

1171
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 8: Sure?

1172
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 3: I can't. Can I have a tiger? It depends on

1173
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 3: where you live. Like I you know, I live in

1174
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 3: the middle of Las Vegas. I probably can't. No, I

1175
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 3: probably can't. Actually I live in Las Vegas. It's it's

1176
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 3: gonna depend on where you live, like a lot of

1177
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 3: like in Missouri, for instance, I know that the animal

1178
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 3: laws for exact animals are really like lack. There so

1179
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 3: a lot of people that do have exotic animal shows,

1180
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 3: like the Chimp Lady. She was in Missouri, right, Okay,

1181
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 3: you know that was a crazy documentary. Oh my gosh.

1182
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 3: I'm going to talk about that later. He was also

1183
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 3: convicted in twenty twenty three in Virginia on four counts

1184
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 3: of wildlife trafficking over sales of lions, and was sentenced

1185
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 3: two years of prison. A lot of these people think that,

1186
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,479
Speaker 3: you know, the government can't control what they do. They're

1187
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 3: very you know, don't tread on me. I can do

1188
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 3: whatever I want. Hyper libertarian, hyper, yeah, you know, And

1189
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 3: not to cast any shade on libertarians whatever, but they're hyper.

1190
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 3: You know, there's always extreme in every kind of group.

1191
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 2: Right.

1192
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 3: So, yeah, he's been convicted of animal animal trafficking, and

1193
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 3: I hope he hates prison for the next year. I

1194
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 3: hope he hates it, and I hope he has a

1195
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 3: terrible time because you know, a lot of these people

1196
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 3: don't know this or not, but animal animal trafficking funds

1197
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 3: a lot of terrorism. Did you guys know that? No, Yeah,

1198
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 3: it funds a lot of terrorism because it's all black money.

1199
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 3: It's all it's all black money. And so National Geographic

1200
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago did this like really great

1201
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 3: story on how animal trafficking and is bad Number one,

1202
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 3: But also, you know, funds a lot of really really

1203
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 3: really bad things like oh my ivory trade, like the

1204
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 3: ivory trade possible. Yeah. So you're listening to true crime

1205
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 3: tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm body movin and I'm here with

1206
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 3: Courtney Armstrong and we're just talking about all the latest

1207
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 3: headlines in true crime right now. If you want to

1208
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 3: give us a call, give us a call it eight

1209
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 3: eight eight thirty one crime or get used to talkbacks

1210
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app. And guess what, we have a talkback.

1211
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 8: We were talking about grooman and the psychological effects on

1212
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 8: the victims that they take and it kind of reminds

1213
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 8: me of the psychological effects the victims of domestic violence,

1214
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:01,479
Speaker 8: and it seems almost akin to what victims go through.

1215
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 8: And I just wonder if there should be like thing

1216
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 8: in place that could help these victims of grooming.

1217
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is something we were talking about last night, Yeah,

1218
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 3: talking about important question. Yeah, like is grooming and you

1219
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 3: know what is grooming? Right? What is grooming?

1220
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 2: So I did a little bit so after we spoke

1221
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 2: about it and we were kind of debating, you know,

1222
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 2: how it can or should be litigated. And I did

1223
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 2: find out that there are various federal and state laws

1224
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 2: that do address child grooming, which I wasn't sure about.

1225
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 2: And it can be laws against child enticement, and it

1226
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 2: can be laws about targeting online miners. So basically what

1227
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 2: grooming is, and it can be if you're doing with

1228
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 2: children or really anyone in sort of a minor situation too,

1229
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 2: you have more power. It's getting them comfortable, it's making

1230
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 2: making them trust you.

1231
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:10,439
Speaker 3: Like you're basically using friendship or mentorship of some kind, right, Courtney, Like, yes,

1232
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 3: you're in a position of offering something to a child

1233
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 3: to make them feel comfortable to trust you with the

1234
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:23,440
Speaker 3: intent right of some kind of exploitation or manipulation or

1235
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 3: even sexual abuse. Yep, Right, So that's grooming. Should this

1236
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 3: be a crime And you're saying in some jurisdictions it

1237
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 3: is a crime, but in other words it's not. That's right,

1238
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 3: So I just like I said, it was late.

1239
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 2: It was last night, it was after the show, and

1240
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 2: I looked into it, so I want to do an

1241
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 2: actual deep dive. But I was happy to know that

1242
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 2: there are again some federal and some state laws, and

1243
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 2: some of them prohibit contacting a minor with the intent

1244
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 2: to commit a sexual offense and that can be even

1245
01:05:55,920 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 2: without a physical meeting. Oh yeah, and other laws are

1246
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 2: specifically targeting online enticementth and sending harmful material to minors

1247
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 2: with the intent to seduce them.

1248
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 3: You know.

1249
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 2: Or there's plenty of malevolent people out there who want

1250
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 2: to encourage children to hurt themselves.

1251
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 3: I've seen Oh my gosh, I saw like this gang

1252
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 3: that does this. We should cover this. Oh. They target children,

1253
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 3: and they use social media to communicate with them. They

1254
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 3: groom them just as like we discussed, and then they

1255
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 3: get them to basically do things because they say, if

1256
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 3: you don't, I'm going to tell your mom about the

1257
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 3: conversations we've had and whatnot. You guys, parents, I don't

1258
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 3: know how you do it today. I don't have children

1259
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 3: on my own. Please please, please be on top of

1260
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 3: your kid's social media. I am terrified for children on

1261
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 3: the internet. I mean, I am and I'm on the internet. Listen,

1262
01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 3: I'm on the internet way too much, like way too much.

1263
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 3: And the things that I've seen it makes me shudder.

1264
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 3: And the stories that I've heard from people whose childrens

1265
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 3: have gotten messages from predators and whatnot. I mean, just

1266
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 3: being a woman on the internet, how many sugar baby

1267
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 3: messages do we get? Like, I just cannot imagine. Oh,

1268
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 3: the Eighteenth Street Gang. That's it. We have to cover this.

1269
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:26,360
Speaker 3: It's so scary. Parents need to know about it. Listen,

1270
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 3: if I had a kid, they would not have a phone.

1271
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 3: They would have a flip phone. They would have a

1272
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 3: Motorola raser that only has my phone number in it.

1273
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 2: And listen, there are segments of people who are going

1274
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 2: back to that just for all of the reasons. Right,

1275
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 2: we talked about But speaking of streaming and everything horrifying

1276
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 2: we just talked about, by the way, thank you very

1277
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 2: much for that talk back about grooming. It's obviously is

1278
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 2: a really important issue, and so I'm very will dig

1279
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 2: into I'm going to tell you real quick what I'm streaming.

1280
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:00,080
Speaker 3: And oh, yeah, this.

1281
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 2: Is true crime adjacent, but it was one of it

1282
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:07,600
Speaker 2: was about the poop cruise.

1283
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 3: Oh I saw that this weekend. I watched it. Yes,

1284
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 3: that was I thought it was going to be a

1285
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 3: true crime story. So I was like, oh, let's watch

1286
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 3: the Poop Cruise. I don't why I thought it was

1287
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 3: going to be true I did too.

1288
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 2: It's a series. It's called train Wreck and it's quite

1289
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 2: a watch. And another one under the banner of train

1290
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:29,639
Speaker 2: Wreck is The Mayor of Mayhem, which involves a crack

1291
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 2: smoking mayor.

1292
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 3: So right now I'm going to get into what I've

1293
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 3: been watching. Right I can't not listen to Courtney Took

1294
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 3: My Poop Cruise story because I did watch that this weekend.

1295
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 3: That was wild, by the way, Like these poor people,

1296
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 3: these poor people were on a cruise. They were on

1297
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 3: a four day cruise to I think King kun or Cosmeo,

1298
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 3: and they got stuck and they lost the ship lost

1299
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 3: power and they were given these red hazard bags to

1300
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 3: poop in because nothing's working. They don't have any food,

1301
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 3: they don't have any and the air conditionings down, so

1302
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 3: they're all bringing their beds from their cabins out into

1303
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 3: the deck to sleep. And they were there for like

1304
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 3: five days, stranded at sea, and like a tug boat's

1305
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 3: coming out in a storm. They couldn't like it was

1306
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 3: just one cat. It was real mayhem.

1307
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 2: And even the people watching it, I mean it was

1308
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 2: almost like Lord of the Flies.

1309
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 3: It kind of they I love that book. It's actually

1310
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 3: my favorite book, Lord of the Flies, But you took

1311
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 3: that for me. So I think I'll talk about the

1312
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 3: Idaho student murderers on Peacock.

1313
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 8: Oh.

1314
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I watched that. It was very well done.

1315
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 3: I thought that, you know, it was a really really

1316
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,640
Speaker 3: good I mean, there wasn't anything like earth shattering in it,

1317
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:48,719
Speaker 3: you know, like new but it was a really good

1318
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 3: overview of the case. If you don't know anything about it,

1319
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 3: like if you are just now learning about this and

1320
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 3: you want to watch the trial, that's what I would

1321
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 3: recommend people watch. Now there is no trial because he

1322
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 3: played guilty, but there's moments in the documentary that I

1323
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 3: just thought that I that we're so well done that

1324
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 3: haven't been done yet. For instance, they kind of recreated

1325
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 3: the house. Yeah, and they walk through the house as

1326
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 3: basically the killer. That's how I kind of read it.

1327
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 3: And it was very it was chilling, it was it

1328
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 3: was sad. I cried, actually, you know, at times there's

1329
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 3: Kaylee Gounsolve is one of the victims. Her brother is

1330
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 3: in it, and he's talking about, you know, how life

1331
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,480
Speaker 3: has changed, and he also says something that's so heartbreaking.

1332
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:35,560
Speaker 3: He says, my biggest fear is that there's going to

1333
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 3: be a plea deal. And that stood out to me.

1334
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:39,880
Speaker 3: That stood out to me. I was like, oh God,

1335
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 3: and here we are.

1336
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:45,120
Speaker 2: No, it's it's horrible for the family members, including the

1337
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 2: Consolvst family who feels that way. One thing I will

1338
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 2: say Aboutdy and this is without spilling all of Katie's

1339
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 2: studios inside secrets, what you're reacting to, the sort of

1340
01:10:56,040 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 2: recreation perspective. It is not as so we can just

1341
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:01,680
Speaker 2: read it there.

1342
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 3: But it's also not the house because I got that

1343
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:08,599
Speaker 3: question too. Did they get access to the house? I'm like, no, no,

1344
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 3: because the house was torn This is torn down, and

1345
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 3: of course I'm not going to let a production company

1346
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 3: in there. Like no, of course it's not the house.

1347
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:19,599
Speaker 3: But you know, it was just the details of the house.

1348
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:22,679
Speaker 3: You guys captured them. I thought it was really well done,

1349
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 3: especially if you're just now kind of learning about this

1350
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 3: case and wanted to watch the trial because a lot

1351
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,680
Speaker 3: of people don't pay attention like we do right, like

1352
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:32,680
Speaker 3: not everybody does. So I thought it was like a

1353
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 3: really good refresher, very well done, and it's number one

1354
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 3: on Peacock Congratulations stuff.

1355
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 2: It's the Big Deals. Yeah, Stephanie and Kat Studios. Cool

1356
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:45,919
Speaker 2: and listen. Tomorrow we're gonna have a deep dive. Obviously,

1357
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:50,440
Speaker 2: Stephanie Leidegger's back and we are joined with everyone's favorite

1358
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 2: forensic expert, Joseph Scott Morgan, who was a big part

1359
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:57,760
Speaker 2: of the documentary. Listen, leave your talkbacks now. If you

1360
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:01,680
Speaker 2: haven't asked questions about the dog, we will answer them tomorrow.

1361
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:05,600
Speaker 2: Or any literally any random friends of question you ask it,

1362
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 2: we answer it. Thank you for joining us True Crime Tonight.