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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece.

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Speaker 2: Loose lips sink ships. Truer words were never spoken. Now.

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Speaker 2: That phraseology came from Great Britain around the time of

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Speaker 2: the World War, when the Brits were convinced rightly so

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Speaker 2: that spies were everywhere, so if you knew anything about

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Speaker 2: the battle raging across the world, keep your pie hole shut. Well,

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Speaker 2: it didn't always work, and today is a prime example

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Speaker 2: of a murder suspect busted in a police station after

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Speaker 2: he incriminates himself when detectives leave the room. Is nobody

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Speaker 2: watching TV? Don't they know? For somebody on the other

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Speaker 2: side of that mirror watching you, or that there are

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Speaker 2: cameras watching you that pick up audio as well. What

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Speaker 2: cave is this guy living in? He's got to be

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Speaker 2: living under a rock in a cave on the other

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Speaker 2: side of the world with definitely no cable TV where

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Speaker 2: he would have seen JINXD for Pete's sake, where millionaire

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Speaker 2: Robert Durst said, of course I did it under his

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Speaker 2: breath and it was caught on a microphone. Anyway, he

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Speaker 2: did it, and he went years without being caught until

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Speaker 2: his inadverent loose lips suck his ship, I mean, is

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Speaker 2: he grace? This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with

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Speaker 2: us here at Crime Stories and on serious Excit. One eleven.

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Speaker 2: How did the whole things start? Well, of course, at

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Speaker 2: a liquor store. Take a listen.

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Speaker 3: On the morning of April twenty third, nineteen ninety three,

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Speaker 3: a couple stops by Ajax liquor store to pick up

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Speaker 3: a pack of cigarettes and finds the owner of the store,

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Speaker 3: Steve Weltig, on the floor dead. Investigators notice it appears

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Speaker 3: that a struggle took place prior to wel Tag being

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Speaker 3: shot in the head. Major Key Squad detectives work the

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Speaker 3: case and developed several leads, as well as a suspect sketch,

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Speaker 3: but no real evidence leading to a killer is ever

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Speaker 3: found and the case goes cold.

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Speaker 2: Okay, straight out to high profile lawyer, former prosecutor in

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Speaker 2: inter city Atlanta defense attorney Darryl Cohen. Darryl Cohen, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us. Why does everybody say they

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Speaker 2: were in the liquor store just to buy cigarettes.

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Speaker 4: Well, because no one goes to a liquor store to

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Speaker 4: buy liquor, because that there are all these boot layers. Nancy,

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Speaker 4: when you start making up lives that become more and

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Speaker 4: more absurd, more ridiculous, and the more you live the

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Speaker 4: way you think. Okay, they've got it. It's great when

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Speaker 4: these people are smarter than the rest of the world.

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Speaker 2: In AJAX liquor store in the morning to buy cigarettes. Okay,

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Speaker 2: you know what, fine, I will accept that because I'm

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Speaker 2: less concerned about them lying about getting boozed up first

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Speaker 2: thing in the morning than I am about the dead

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Speaker 2: body on the floor. Let's try and focus on the

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Speaker 2: dead body. Joining us right now, investigative reporter from Leader News.

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Speaker 2: You can find them at my leaderpaper dot com. Tony

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Speaker 2: Krauss joining us from Arnold, Missouri. Tony, thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us. Tell me about the location of Ajax

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Speaker 2: Liquor Store.

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Speaker 5: AJX Liquor Store I actually no longer exists. It is

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Speaker 5: right off one of the main road in Arl, Missouri

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Speaker 5: called Jeffcoe Boulevards, the straight down the middle of the city.

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Speaker 5: It had been a liquor store that mister will take

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Speaker 5: it own and as whereas body was found in the

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Speaker 5: morning in nineteen ninety three, and it had also after

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Speaker 5: it been a liquor store, it became a auto shop.

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Speaker 2: Joining you right now, Detective Corporal Josh Weininger from the

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Speaker 2: Arnold Police Department. I guess it hurts any chance of

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Speaker 2: getting forensic evidence when the crime scene location not only

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Speaker 2: changes hands, but changes the nature of the business, going

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Speaker 2: from then a liquor store to multiple businesses including auto

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Speaker 2: body shop, and now I believe it's a wellness center.

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Speaker 2: I mean that floor has been replaced, maybe walls have

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Speaker 2: been moved, repainted. There's no there's not a sintilla of

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Speaker 2: forensic evists left behind.

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Speaker 6: You're absolutely right. The building has one chain. The only

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Speaker 6: thing that's the same, The only thing as the shell.

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Speaker 6: The insight is completely redone. Nothing looks the same.

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Speaker 2: So this liquor store is open and operating the morning.

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Speaker 2: It was a Friday morning, I believe, on April twenty three,

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Speaker 2: when the murder goes down. What more do you know

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Speaker 2: about the scene, detective.

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Speaker 6: It was a graphic scene. There was scenes of a struggle,

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Speaker 6: a violent struggle. Officer. Responding officers knew right away that

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Speaker 6: a struggle ensued and there was a fight for Steve

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Speaker 6: fought for his life. They could tell that right away.

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Speaker 2: The victim, forty year old Stephen Wiltig, fought for his

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Speaker 2: life Now, how did they know that, detective corporal.

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Speaker 6: Because there were scattered, like any convenience store, chips and merchandise,

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Speaker 6: and it wasn't just secluded to one area like he

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Speaker 6: was found behind the counter of the resident of the business.

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Speaker 6: He was in front of the counter behind There was

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Speaker 6: scattered merchandise throughout the store.

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Speaker 2: Okay, scattered merchandise throughout the store. You could tell a

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Speaker 2: battle ensued. I assume that there were no video cams

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Speaker 2: or anything of that nature.

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Speaker 6: Correct, there was one back then. They were very large

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Speaker 6: and it was outside the building, but it was not

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Speaker 6: functioning at that time.

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Speaker 2: You know. That reminds me. I just had to corporal

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Speaker 2: the Chandra Levy case. When Chandra Levy left her apartment

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Speaker 2: in Washington, we couldn't tell what was she wearing, was

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Speaker 2: she with anybody? Her body was found much later, well

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Speaker 2: what was left of it. She was skeletonized and the

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Speaker 2: Rock Creek Park there in DC, after all sorts of

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Speaker 2: high powered politicians had been questioned under suspicion, we never

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Speaker 2: knew did she leave to go jogging with she abducted

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Speaker 2: because they had surveillance cameras within her high rise apartment

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Speaker 2: in DC. But every seventy two hours, they would tape

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Speaker 2: over themselves. So by the time cops went there after,

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Speaker 2: you know, searching for her. By the time cops went

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Speaker 2: to get in the video, it had been taped over forever, irretrievable,

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Speaker 2: no way to get it back. So you're telling me

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Speaker 2: that there was a video cam, surveillance video, but it

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Speaker 2: wasn't working.

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Speaker 6: Yes, that's what I'm telling you. And it's unfortunate because

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Speaker 6: I could have sold the case in nineteen ninety three.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, when I'm thinking about the Woodacuda should us

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Speaker 2: in this case? Anyway, back to the murder, we know

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Speaker 2: that Stephen Weltigg, forty years old, was there bright and

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Speaker 2: early that Friday morning. He was the owner, he ran

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Speaker 2: the liquor store, convenience store, and that he put up

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Speaker 2: a battle. He fought for life, as the detective corporal

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Speaker 2: is telling us, but somebody was hell bent on murdering him.

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Speaker 2: When you said, Detective Corporal Josh Weininger, that it was graphic,

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Speaker 2: what do you mean by that? The same was graphic?

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Speaker 6: A lot of blood, A lot of blood. When somebody

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Speaker 6: is shot in the head, the heart is still pumping,

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Speaker 6: blood is still coming out of the body. So there

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Speaker 6: was a great deal of blood. There's blood spatter. We

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Speaker 6: have evidence all over the place, and we for years

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Speaker 6: we kept the flooring to that business. And so you

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Speaker 6: could just tell when I picked up the cage twenty

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Speaker 6: seven years how much blood was involved in this case.

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Speaker 2: You kept the flooring. That is incredible police work. Tell

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Speaker 2: me about that.

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Speaker 6: The officers, the detectives that investigated at the time. There

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Speaker 6: was obviously modern police work has taken over with technology,

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Speaker 6: but back then I think they did a decent job

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Speaker 6: of processing that crime scene. They see stuff that was

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Speaker 6: pertinent to the investigation, and at that time you don't

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Speaker 6: know what is and what isn't, and they see stuff

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Speaker 6: that wasn't. That floor was very important. It helped me

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Speaker 6: years later kind of reconstruct that scene.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to imagine what you're saying, because we see

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Speaker 2: modern day reconstructions and the three D recreations and all that,

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Speaker 2: but you actually have the floor. You had the flooring

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Speaker 2: from the scene. Did you say it was carpet?

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Speaker 6: It was carpet. And I worked this case with Detective

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Speaker 6: after Brett Ackerman at the time, and he and I

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Speaker 6: we looked at this carpet for a long time and

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Speaker 6: try to put the puzzle back together. Twenty seven years later.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Detective Corporal Joshua one of you're joining us, Can I tell

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Speaker 2: you about a case I tried? Okay, So, there was

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Speaker 2: a very high powered law firm in Atlanta and my boss,

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Speaker 2: Lewis Slayton, had been the elected District Attorney, the longest

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Speaker 2: of any DA in the country. I believe it was

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Speaker 2: thirty seven years. And I remember him calling me on

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Speaker 2: the overhead, Nancy, come to my office. I can hear

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Speaker 2: it right now because I'm chill and I specifically, i'd

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Speaker 2: been offering a different office, a really nice one, but

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Speaker 2: I took a little beauty one on a corner with

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Speaker 2: no view at all. I looked on top of another

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Speaker 2: building because it was by the stairs. Detective Corporal Why

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Speaker 2: so I could run down to the elected DA's office

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Speaker 2: whenever he called me and be there in about two minutes,

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Speaker 2: even in heels. So I ran down there and he

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Speaker 2: told me he had a case he wanted me to

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Speaker 2: look at because the daughter of his friend they had

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Speaker 2: known each other thirty years, who was now partner in

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Speaker 2: this big firm, was killed and it had been chalked

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Speaker 2: up as suicide, but the father and mother didn't believe it.

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Speaker 2: So I grabbed the file, race out to the scene,

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Speaker 2: and we take the bed sheets. She reportedly ostensibly shot

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Speaker 2: herself in the head while completely nude. Okay, right there,

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Speaker 2: alarm bells were going off because that statistically never happens

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Speaker 2: with a female lying in bed, lying down with her

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Speaker 2: head on the pillow, and she shot herself. Now, something

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Speaker 2: about that just seems wrong, right, Do you agree with

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Speaker 2: me so far, detective? But it wasn't until I knew

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Speaker 2: it was wrong, but I didn't know why it was wrong.

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Speaker 2: We get the sheets to the crime lab and guess

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Speaker 2: what her pillow? Janelle? That was her first name, Janelle, Beautiful,

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Speaker 2: I might add, with a precious little boy. Janelle was

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Speaker 2: lying on a pillow. And guess what was under the pillow, detective.

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Speaker 2: Blood spatter. Not a drop of blood, not a blood spear.

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Speaker 2: Blood spatter, which means the scene was staged. If she

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Speaker 2: had truly been lying on that pillow, butt naked, which

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Speaker 2: you know rarely happens with females, and shot herself the head,

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Speaker 2: why would there be blood spatter all underneath her pillow?

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Speaker 2: It wouldn't be the blood didn't even soak all the

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Speaker 2: way through the pillow. Impossible, you see what I'm saying. Yes,

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Speaker 2: So my point is, you guys kept the flooring because

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Speaker 2: you never know. As the weeks turned two months turned years,

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Speaker 2: and you keep looking at it and looking at it

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Speaker 2: and looking at it, what might dawn on you. I

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Speaker 2: got to hand it to you and the Arnold PD

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Speaker 2: for saving so much of the evidence. Okay, So tell

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Speaker 2: me about the investigation into this case. Detective Corporal Josh Weininger.

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Speaker 2: Why did it go cold?

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Speaker 6: I believe it went cold from what I read through

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Speaker 6: many many police reports because of leads that had nothing

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Speaker 6: to do with the case. So the Major Case investigated it.

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Speaker 6: And one of the one of the patrons to the

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Speaker 6: convenience store that morning was and I want to say,

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Speaker 6: witness protection from a different state, and they didn't want

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Speaker 6: to get involved. So Major Case kind of said, this

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Speaker 6: is weird. This guy is possibly involved in criminal activity.

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Speaker 6: We're going to look into him as being.

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Speaker 2: A potential suspect in the sheeting.

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Speaker 6: Correct, And that's where that case went.

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Speaker 7: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Huh okay, hold on, hold on, let me follow up

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Speaker 2: with everybody with me an all star panel. It makes

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Speaker 2: sense of what we know right now. Did loose lips

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Speaker 2: sink a ship? You know? Tony Krauss is with us

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Speaker 2: from Leader News, Detective Corporal josh Win and Jerk joining

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Speaker 2: us from the ARNOLPD in Missouri, but also with me

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Speaker 2: high profile lawyer Darryl Cohen out of the Atlanta jurisdiction,

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Speaker 2: doctor jury Elk Crossing is with us where now it

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Speaker 2: psych pologists now faculty at Saint Leo University, and doctor

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Speaker 2: Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner. That's not easy to get.

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Speaker 2: You didn't just go to med school. You didn't just

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Speaker 2: become a medical doctor. You focus on pathology and then

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Speaker 2: you work your way up to become the chief medical Examiner.

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Speaker 2: Also lecturer University Texas Austin and at TCU Texas Christian

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Speaker 2: University Medical School, doctor Kendall Crowns. Why is it? I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking back on all the murder cases I

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Speaker 2: investigated and prosecuted, the profuse amount of blood that occurs

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Speaker 2: when someone is shot in the head and we see it. Say,

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Speaker 2: I went to a wrestling match for my twins high school.

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Speaker 2: They're not wrestlers, but their friends were wrestling and we

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Speaker 2: were watching you know, if you get hit in the

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Speaker 2: nose or the mouth, anywhere around your head, you bleed

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Speaker 2: like a stut pig. You bleed like crazy. Why is that.

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Speaker 2: We're on other parts of your body, you don't bleed

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Speaker 2: as profusely.

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Speaker 8: So the scalp, the face all have a large amount

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Speaker 8: of blood vesse wills feeding the tissues of that area.

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Speaker 9: And then once you get past the skin, which is

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Speaker 9: very vascular, then you also have the brain, which has

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Speaker 9: a lot of blood supply getting to it because the

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Speaker 9: brain needs constant oxygen, constant nourishment to function. So all

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Speaker 9: these areas on your head have a lot of blood

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Speaker 9: supply when compared to the rest of your body. And

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Speaker 9: that's why you see so much hemorrhage associated with them,

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Speaker 9: because the brain is so important for your function, it

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Speaker 9: needs a large amount of blood.

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Speaker 2: Vest Jerald Cohen joining me, as you know, former prosecutor

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Speaker 2: now Defensiveney Darryl. I understand completely what Wandinger is telling

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Speaker 2: me because they're investigating this murderer. Then they find out

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Speaker 2: a witness and for those of you that can't see me,

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Speaker 2: I'm using air quoties is in the Witness Protection Act

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Speaker 2: somewhere else yes, of course they went down that. Let

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Speaker 2: me just call it a pig path. You know what

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Speaker 2: a pig path is, right, Darryl Cohen. You're a city boy,

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Speaker 2: but do you know what a pig path is.

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Speaker 4: I'm a city boy, but I know in.

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Speaker 2: A straight line, a pig runs all crazy. And let

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Speaker 2: me just tell this story again. My dad, who would

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Speaker 2: work really long hours with the then Southern Central Railroad

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Speaker 2: now Norfolk Southern, my mother's brother convinced him they should

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Speaker 2: start a pig farm. So they got some pigs. And

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Speaker 2: basically what that meant is every day when he would

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Speaker 2: come home from work, he would have to chase the

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Speaker 2: pigs to get them back the fence. That's what a

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Speaker 2: pig path is. It's crazy, doesn't make sense, goes in

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Speaker 2: all crazy directions. So you find out the witness is

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Speaker 2: in witness protection. Of course, the cops investigated him as

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Speaker 2: a potential suspect.

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Speaker 4: I couldn't help but laugh because witness protection, who is he?

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Speaker 4: Different name, different person, not different physical statistics or different

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Speaker 4: fingerprints or different DNA. But what it does is it

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Speaker 4: takes an already complicated case and multiplies the complications because

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Speaker 4: if he or she is in witness protection. Then fans

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Speaker 4: don't want him to be looked at, don't want him

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Speaker 4: to be spoken to, don't want him to even exist

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Speaker 4: because he might be murdered.

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Speaker 2: You know, you can't get anything out of the Feds.

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Speaker 2: Detective Corporal Josh Wantinger ever tried to work with the Feds?

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Speaker 2: Have you ever tried to get them to cooperate?

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Speaker 6: I have all the time I currently work cases with

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Speaker 6: the FADS.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh, sorry, But all my experience of working with

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Speaker 2: fests and I was a FED for three years law

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Speaker 2: clerk to a federal judge, and then with the Federal

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Speaker 2: Trade Commission, and I trust. But for the bulk of

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Speaker 2: my career in the courtroom, I was a felony prosecutor.

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Speaker 2: And I remember one triple homicide and I had no idea.

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Speaker 2: I was working so hard to crack that case. The

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Speaker 2: FEDS had a whole file on one of the defendants

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Speaker 2: because he was involved in a huge drug trafficking trade,

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Speaker 2: coming straight up from Miami, stopping in Atlanta, and then

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Speaker 2: moving to New York. Did I get one piece of

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Speaker 2: paper from them? No? Nothing. I had a triple homicide,

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Speaker 2: but they thought their drug investigation was more important than

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Speaker 2: three dead teen boys.

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Speaker 6: I believe it. It's very tight lipped in the police report,

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Speaker 6: and they're reading the police report over. It's uncertain on

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Speaker 6: who this individual is and why he was in our

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Speaker 6: town where he came from. I just know he was

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Speaker 6: a person of interest at that time, and it kind

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Speaker 6: of went cold pretty quick once we figured out that

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Speaker 6: that we should go some other direction.

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Speaker 2: Some other direction as indicated by the Feds. So you're

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Speaker 2: kind of like between the rock and a hard spot.

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Speaker 2: You think you know he did it, but the FEDS

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Speaker 2: are another law agency. Law enforcement agency, take him away

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Speaker 2: and encourage you to shut your pie hole. Okay, there

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Speaker 2: you go. So I'm sure there were to take this

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Speaker 2: on the case that always thought that guy did it,

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Speaker 2: and we can't do anything about it until bam, there's

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Speaker 2: a break in the case. Listen to rachel Winia Crime online.

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Speaker 10: The murder of Steve Wilte was unsolved, but not forgotten.

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Speaker 10: The case has been assigned to different investigators over the years,

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Speaker 10: and new leads would be generated and investigated evidence collected.

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Speaker 10: Finally a breaking the case in twenty fifteen when reliable

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Speaker 10: tips led detectives to Laurel Harp, Harp's former wife, contacted

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Speaker 10: Arnold police in twenty fifteen and told them Laurel Harp

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Speaker 10: shot weltg.

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Speaker 2: What isn't it great? Bitter angry ex wives call the

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Speaker 2: police and try to rap their ex out for a murderer.

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Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Back to you, Daryl Cohen. I've spoken to many civil

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Speaker 2: attorneys who say they'd rather try a drug lord or

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Speaker 2: a murder as appases to a divorce case, because they're

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Speaker 2: pretty sure the other party, the wife or the husband

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Speaker 2: on the other side, is going to take a shot

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Speaker 2: at them when they walk through their living room in

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Speaker 2: front of the picture window. I mean, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of animosity and hatred going on in many divorces.

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Speaker 4: Look Nancy first of all. Yogi Barrow said it best.

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Speaker 4: It ain't over till it's over. Divorce cases never seem

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Speaker 4: to be over, especially when their kids involved, or when

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Speaker 4: one spouse or the other is exercising outside of the

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Speaker 4: marriage and emotions run so high. And when emotions run high,

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Speaker 4: people do things that are just playing stupid. Pull out

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Speaker 4: a gun, pull out a knife, make phone calls that

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Speaker 4: they really didn't make. But oh my gosh, I forgot

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Speaker 4: that you could track my phone so divorces are horrible.

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Speaker 4: That's why you see from time to time a lawyer

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Speaker 4: who does family law, which I think is a misnomer

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Speaker 4: things to be called family wars when you see a

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Speaker 4: lawyer is murdered because his client or his client spouse

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Speaker 4: decides that this lawyer is his or her enemy, and

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Speaker 4: let's get rid of the enemy. So divorce cases are

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Speaker 4: terrible to try, horrible, and I give if I wore

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Speaker 4: a hat, I take my hat off to every divorce

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Speaker 4: lawyer who does it right.

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Speaker 2: Man, you are not kidding it. It doesn't make how, It

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter how educated or rich you are. It all

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Speaker 2: boils down to warfare, hand to hand, mutual combat in

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Speaker 2: the courtroom in a nasty divorce. So you know, to

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Speaker 2: you doctor Jory L. Crossey joining US renowned psychologist, former

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Speaker 2: law enforcement faculty at Saint Leo University, doctor jury. There

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Speaker 2: is a husband wife privilege where the wife cannot or

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Speaker 2: husband cannot testify against the partner about communications during the marriage.

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Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean she can't make a phone call

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Speaker 2: and rat out her eggs may not come in on

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Speaker 2: the stand, but still it leads costs in a particular direction.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, as when I was in private practice, I used

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Speaker 11: to do the evaluations for court during divorces on parents

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Speaker 11: parental evaluations. So you know, I can really feel for

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Speaker 11: the lawyers on it because I've actually had lawyers threatened,

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Speaker 11: you know, and how to make the judge awearing them

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Speaker 11: aware of it. But one thing, psychologically, when relationships break up,

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Speaker 11: I have yet to see an individual that does not

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Speaker 11: experience what we call a manic episode. You know, that's

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Speaker 11: this excitement.

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Speaker 7: This is fueled by past injustices, you know, possibly affairs, anything,

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Speaker 7: but it really accelerates their sense of retaliation. And so

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Speaker 7: I could see her making a phone call. You know,

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Speaker 7: this is where a lot of of the luggage and

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Speaker 7: clause skeletons in clausets get exposed.

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Speaker 2: You know. I like the way you said that so euphemistically.

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Speaker 2: That's certainly putting perfume on the pig. It exacerbates retaliation.

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Speaker 2: In other words, when you've been done wrong, you get mean.

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Speaker 2: And this woman had waited what detective Corporal Josh wanting

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Speaker 2: her twenty years before she made that call.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, twenty fifteen was an important year. We actually had

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Speaker 6: the suspect Laurel Harp's a good friend, which was also

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Speaker 6: a mutual friend with Stephen Walton and Laurel Harp's ex

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Speaker 6: wife come forward. So twenty fifteen was a very important

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Speaker 6: year during this investigation.

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Speaker 2: So after all these years, the bitter ex comes forward,

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Speaker 2: and thank heaven, she does.

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Speaker 6: I really do. I had a conversation with her myself

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Speaker 6: in twenty twenty. But she I believe it's she's still

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Speaker 6: struggling with some demons during from their relationship. From what

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Speaker 6: I picked up during the conversation, I think there was

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Speaker 6: some domestic issues that I could never iron out, So

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Speaker 6: that might be a reason she was willing to come forward.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank heaven she did detect a corporal because you

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Speaker 2: know what, I don't want to tell you about it.

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Speaker 2: I want you to hear it. Take a listen to

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Speaker 2: the defendant in this case as he is called in

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Speaker 2: for questioning after his bitter ex angry ex calls cops

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Speaker 2: to tip him off about a murder. Well, the first

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Speaker 2: thing he says is I didn't kill Steve Man. But

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Speaker 2: then he keeps talking. Now, remember, right now, detectors are

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Speaker 2: sitting right in front of him. Listen, you guys are.

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Speaker 5: In it is a physical altercation because you guys are tussling.

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Speaker 12: Hey, if you want to call it, he's going to talk.

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Speaker 12: He's too easy.

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Speaker 4: So how did it happen?

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Speaker 5: How did it happen that he got a bullet hole

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Speaker 5: in his head?

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Speaker 4: Hi, James, and you're the only other person there.

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Speaker 7: In the world.

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Speaker 4: How is this going to look?

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Speaker 11: If you don't tell us the truth, we have to

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Speaker 11: speculate and tell a prosecutor.

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Speaker 4: We have to guess what happened.

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Speaker 12: I'm telling you to shoose I didn't shoose him.

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Speaker 2: I did not choose you. And he is very, very convincing.

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Speaker 2: I've looked at the video as he's talking. He seems convincing.

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Speaker 2: But I guess what does he want us to believe

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Speaker 2: that he gets into a quote tussle. That's what defendants

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Speaker 2: always say when they have a full on fight. It

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Speaker 2: was a tussle. We started tussling. Uh, Darryl Cohen, have

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Speaker 2: you heard that word over and over and over? A tussle?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's just it's a catch all word for

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00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 4: a fight. It's not a tussle. It tussles you. You

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Speaker 4: and I are you, and somebody else would be and

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Speaker 4: somebody else that's wrestling a little bit. This is not

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Speaker 4: what that was.

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00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: I'm not going to wrestle with you, Darryl Cohen. Okay,

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00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 2: but that said, let's guys ww tussle. Take a listen

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00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: to more of Laurel Heart. Now, remember there's no evidence

425
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Speaker 2: against him. All we have is his ex wife calls

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Speaker 2: in and says he's a killer. And as all of

427
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 2: you legal eagles know, even a confession by the defendant

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Speaker 2: alone is not enough under our constitution to bring a

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Speaker 2: murder case. There has to be something more than just

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Speaker 2: the wife calling in. Listen, Steve Walte, in your words,

431
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 2: is a punk, he's weak.

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Speaker 7: He grabs the gun.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, he's a pop.

434
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 4: You're like, what are you going to do with that?

435
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: That's when no, I wouldn't sit down.

436
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 6: I mean in your head, no, not a cloud. But

437
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 6: you're thinking, this guy just pulled a gun on me.

438
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would do an after right way or cut out?

439
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, right a way.

440
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 11: So we already know you.

441
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 6: Went after him right away. That's we just don't know

442
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 6: if you charge you if you were tussling.

443
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 7: Meaning pushing each other.

444
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 12: You said, it's not really that.

445
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 6: Physical, but you know with him as he's.

446
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 7: We've described what it was like, like was it?

447
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 6: What was he trying to punch you. Was he trying

448
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 6: to to me?

449
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 13: Were you good?

450
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: Do you notice right in the middle of that, Tony

451
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: Krauss joining us from Leader News. He says, Hey, can

452
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: you hand me my jeeves? This guy is not worried

453
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: at all because all these years have passed and he

454
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 2: knows the cops have nothing on him.

455
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, he seems pretty confident in his story that no,

456
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 5: he did not shoot him. And then how he's describing

457
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 5: to the let's call it at this point a confrontation,

458
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 5: I guess in his eyes, says he doesn't, says it

459
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 5: was a tussle, and he believes they have nothing they

460
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 5: can get him. At this point, it sounds like.

461
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: And there really is nothing other than the ex wife's

462
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: phone call. He says, the two got no argument and

463
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: he left. He has no idea how the Vietnam got

464
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: shot in the head and ends up dead on the

465
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: floor of a liquor store early on a Friday morning. Okay,

466
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: keep listening.

467
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 6: He came out to me, were you gun?

468
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 4: Describe that?

469
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 5: So the only thing I can remember that you're trying

470
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 5: to tell is I remember it was.

471
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 4: A liquor store. I thought it was a bar.

472
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 5: There's a counter.

473
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 12: He come out from a round the counter, came at me,

474
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 12: had a gun in his hand.

475
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 5: As soon as he got close.

476
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 7: Enough, I hit him.

477
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 12: I grabbed it arm and but.

478
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 7: I didn't shoot him.

479
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 6: That's the suit.

480
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: I did not shoot him. And he goes on. Take

481
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 2: a listen to our cut one seven. Now. Remember there

482
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: he's talking to detectives, but the detectives leave the interrogation

483
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: room and leave him alone.

484
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 12: Loan de Texas picked to ask you some questions. I guess, yeah,

485
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 12: I mean Arnold Police station, and I have no idea

486
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 12: what's about? He said, I'm nor an arrest, but I

487
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 12: probably will before I leave here.

488
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: Let's hear that one more time.

489
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 12: De Texas picked the want to ask you some questions.

490
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 12: I guess, yeah, I mean Arnold Police station, and I

491
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 12: have no idea what's about? He said, I'm nor an arrest,

492
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 12: but I probably will be for I leave here.

493
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. By the time if he is talking to me,

494
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to be under arrest for murder. That's right.

495
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: He thinks nobody is listening. He picks up the cell

496
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: phone and calls some money and goes Before I can

497
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: leave here, I'm going to be under arrest. It's not

498
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 2: the first time someone has made an accidental or inadverted confession.

499
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,479
Speaker 2: This guy knows he's going to be under arrest for murder.

500
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: Does the name Robert Durst ring a bell? Take a

501
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: listen to our cup one.

502
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 13: Robert Durst was famous for being from one of the

503
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 13: wealthiest families in New York, but most of his adult

504
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 13: life dealt with a very dark side of life. Long

505
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 13: suspected of being involved in the disappearance of his wife,

506
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 13: Kathy McCormick in nineteen eighty two, he was the subject

507
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 13: of investigations that never could figure out what happened to Kathy.

508
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 13: Then the two thousand murder of someone considered his best friend,

509
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 13: Susan Berman, and the death of his neighbor Morris Black.

510
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 13: In all the investigations, the only one that saw a

511
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 13: courtroom was the Morris Black murder. Even though Durst chopped

512
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 13: up Morris Black, something one would associate with a murder,

513
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 13: not a defensive killing. Durst was acquitted of the murder.

514
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 13: It wasn't until Robert Durst agreed to do a special

515
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 13: on HBO that he was finally caught with his pants down,

516
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 13: so to speak, in the bathroom with a live microphone.

517
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 13: Robert Durst confessed and all played out in a program

518
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 13: he didn't have to do.

519
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 2: So he's in the bathroom, using the bathroom, literally with

520
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: his pants down and muttering to himself in the middle

521
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 2: of an HBO special. Still mightd up take a listen

522
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: to HBO's the jinx. Well maybe this.

523
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 11: Is the all right, there it is?

524
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: You're yeah, he's acting like he has no idea what's

525
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: going on around? And what is this door with a

526
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: picture of a man on it? Oh, it's the bathroom,

527
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: he goes in. Listen, I'm wrong this.

528
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 4: Estion.

529
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: Okay. What he said right there he's muttering to himself

530
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: is quote what a disaster. He's talking about the HBO

531
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: special that he has voluntarily chose to take part in.

532
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: And here's the money shot.

533
00:33:51,600 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 14: Listen him a question, kill the followers.

534
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 2: Idiot, he says, all alone in the bathroom, I'm having

535
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: difficulty with the question. I killed them all, of course,

536
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: And who do we mean by of course? His wife

537
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: Morris Black and his best friend Kathy Berman, who knew

538
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: he murdered his wife. There are so many other examples.

539
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 2: Robert Durst is just one of them who makes a

540
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 2: quote accidental confession to you, Daryl Cohen, nothing under our

541
00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 2: constitution protects you from accidental or unknowing confessions being brought

542
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: in at court.

543
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 4: What you're saying is, nancy, nothing protects you from your own, pure,

544
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 4: unadulterated stupidity. You're right, he is not being questioned. He's

545
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 4: giving voluntary answers to the ethernet or the Internet, or

546
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 4: the video or the audio. No, you can't be protected

547
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 4: from yourself unless you're smart enough to do what a

548
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 4: certain judge was told years ago when I prosecuted computed

549
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 4: in front of him. Judge Jack Langford had a habit

550
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 4: of just for rating lawyers, and his secretary, Gloria, who

551
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 4: was terrific, had the large letters large pond kyd BMS

552
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 4: on one of his rolling file cabinets, and every time

553
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 4: she heard him but reat a lawyer, she would buzz him.

554
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 4: He would be forced to turn around, look at the

555
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 4: file cabinet insident for keep your damn big mouth shut. Well,

556
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 4: that's what should be these fools who commit these crimes.

557
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 4: But they're smarter than you are, smarter than I am,

558
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 4: and nobody's listening or watching me. But at some point,

559
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 4: if you trip and tall your toast.

560
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 2: You know what, I remember Judge Schreyer very well. I

561
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 2: tried cases in front of him, and we always degenerated

562
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 2: into a huge argument. And after one of those arguments

563
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 2: he had to go to the hospital with chest pains. Okay,

564
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: that's a whole nother story. But what about another Itgit

565
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 2: killer OJ Simpson talk about inadvertent confessions. Take a listen

566
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: to Dave mack in one thirty three.

567
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 13: Chris Darden, the OJ Simpson prosecutor, during an appearance on

568
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 13: the TV show of the View, claims OJ Simpson confess

569
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 13: to the crime. Darden is referencing a story that's been

570
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 13: told by Sergeant Jeff Stewart, who was a guard at

571
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 13: the La County Jail. He claims he overheard a convers

572
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 13: between O. J. Simpson and former NFL Great Term Minister

573
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 13: Rosie Greer. Rosie Greer was visiting OJ Simpson as a minister,

574
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 13: and Sergeant Stewart claims he heard Simpson yell, I didn't

575
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 13: mean to do it. I'm sorry. He then claims Rosie

576
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 13: Greer told OJA, OJ, You've got to come clean. You've

577
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 13: got to tell somebody. Sergeant Stewart did in fact testify

578
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 13: during the O. J. Simpson trial, but he was only

579
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 13: allowed to say that he heard a statement. He couldn't say

580
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 13: what the statement was. Simpson's defense argued statements between inmates

581
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 13: and clergy is protected, and Judge lance Ito ruled the

582
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 13: full accounting could not be admitted as evidence.

583
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 4: Nancy, let me interrupt for a second. I think it's

584
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 4: important that you mentioned that Rosie Greer was a former

585
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 4: teammate of OJ Simpsons on the Los Angeles Rams. He

586
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 4: wasn't just a minister that came after his playing career

587
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 4: was over.

588
00:37:53,320 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: Normally, communications between clergy and a defendant are kept secret. However,

589
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: if you violate or pierce the privilege by screaming it

590
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: out saw all the sheriffs hear it, then you typically

591
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 2: lose the privilege. It's like you're talking to your lawyer

592
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 2: at a dinner party and everybody can overhear you, so

593
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 2: you have waived the privilege by speaking in front of

594
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 2: other people. Of course, lance Ito chose his own unique

595
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: interpretation of the law and did not let Simpson's confession in.

596
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 2: But what about this idiot William Korzon. Take a listen

597
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: to what he asked the police talk about an inadvertent

598
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 2: confession Dave Mack in one thirty.

599
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 13: Nine, William Courzon got away with murder for four decades.

600
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 13: He and his wife, Gloria, married in nineteen sixty eight

601
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 13: moved to Pennsylvania, where they were regularly visited by police

602
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 13: for their constant fighting. From nineteen sixty eight until Gloria

603
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 13: disappeared in nineteen eighty one, law enforcement authorities investigated in

604
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 13: documented numerous violent assaults where William Corson assaulted and threatened

605
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 13: to killed Gloria Coorson, investigator said, the couple got into

606
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,919
Speaker 13: a violent argument in which Gloria pointed her husband's gun

607
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 13: at him and tried to shoot him, but Korson wrestled

608
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 13: the gun from his wife's hands and shot her in

609
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 13: the head, killing her. He then loaded her on his

610
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 13: boat and dumped her body in the Delaware River. After

611
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 13: the case went cold and was put on a shelf,

612
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 13: Warrington police spent two years reinvestigating before they finally had

613
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 13: enough evidence to take it to a grand jury. When

614
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 13: police showed up to arrest him, Coorzon said the one

615
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 13: thing that sealed his fate. He asked investigators, did you

616
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 13: find the body?

617
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: Did you find the body. No, how did he know

618
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: there was a body? How did he know? She didn't

619
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: just leave him? He knew there was a dead body.

620
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: And that was his inadvertent confession. I've got so many

621
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: in inverted accidental confessions, but you've got to hear this

622
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: one that results from a butt dial. I make the

623
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 2: twins say pocket dial, but it's a butt dial. Take

624
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 2: a listen to the story of Aaron Burial, the true

625
00:39:58,280 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: story In one.

626
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 13: World of crime, it's the victim that usually calls nine

627
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 13: one one. Roswell, New Mexico. Authorities answered the nine one

628
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 13: one call, expecting someone to need help, but this time

629
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 13: it's a butt dial, an unintentional dialing of nine one one.

630
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 13: Nine to one dispatch is about to disconnect the call

631
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 13: when they hear thirty seven year old Aaron Burrell talking

632
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 13: about a home he just burglarized with his partner in crime,

633
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 13: Yvonne Thiberg. Nine one one is recording as the couple

634
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 13: does a quick inventory of what they just stole, mainly

635
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 13: a TV from a house in Roswell. Dispatchers listened to

636
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 13: the unintended confession for nearly forty five minutes as the

637
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 13: duo continued to discuss their alleged heist. Police went to

638
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 13: the home address that was mentioned in the call and

639
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 13: it had been robbed. Aaron Burrell and Yvonne Thiberg were

640
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 13: both arrested and charged with multiple burglary related offenses. And

641
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 13: the confession is all on the nine to one one.

642
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 2: Tape confession by butt dial to ted to Corporal Josh

643
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: Weininger is with us from the Arnold PD. So this guy,

644
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 2: when he sees the detect us, we're back to our

645
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: case in chief the in this case, Laurel Harp. As

646
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 2: soon as the detectives leaves the room, he picks up

647
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 2: the phone and basically makes a tell. Colin says, in essence, man,

648
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to jail. He knew the gig was up.

649
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 6: Yes, he knew. He made several of those incriminating statements

650
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 6: out loud. He was cussing at himself at times, and

651
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 6: it was those portions of the interview which led myself

652
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 6: in Detective Ackerman solved this case.

653
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: What do you mean he was cursing at himself.

654
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 6: Just like when you're mad at yourself, like verbally out loud,

655
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 6: just upset with himself that he was in this situation

656
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 6: because he thought he was going to jail.

657
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 2: To you, Tony Krauss. Was he charged with first degree murder?

658
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 11: He was?

659
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 4: It was.

660
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 5: It took a couple, a couple more interviews were with him,

661
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 5: and then the Prosky Attorney's Office in Jersy did issue

662
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 5: charged it against him for a first murder and an

663
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 5: armed criminal action on September twenty ninth, twenty twenty, and

664
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 5: he was arrested the next day.

665
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 2: Twenty plus years pass and through a in an inadvertent

666
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 2: confession a slip of a tongue, he is convicted on

667
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 2: homicide charges. Justice delayed, but not denied. Goodbye friend,