1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on. 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: We have to have this debate in Congress about whether 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: we should be in places like Afghanic death. This tell 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 1: that has change. We've got a hold of accountable book, 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: say how they governed. Bloomberg Sound on Politics, Policy and 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: perspect from DC's top names. Infrastructor bill or create jobs 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: that we do that we need in this country, good 8 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: paying jobs. We need to go all out to agree 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: renewable economy and all of the infrastructures to make that happen. 10 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio and 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: we press on live from Washington, where the political class 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: has already left for the long holiday weekend, already at 13 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: the beach. But you know, Bloomberg is still on the 14 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: job with so much to talk about today, beginning with 15 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: jobs weaker than expected as the headline on the August report. 16 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: But we will look under the hood coming up with 17 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: US Labor Secretary Mark he Walsh and later with Douglas 18 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: Holtz Eakin, former White House Economic advisor now president of 19 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: the American Action Forum, will get his take on this 20 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: and where we're going. And then there's our Friday Reporters 21 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: round Table. Bloomberg Government's Jack Fitzpatrick will be with us, 22 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: along with Alex Wayne, who leads our Bloomberg White House team. 23 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: I guess investors are already on the beach too, but hey, 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: it's Labor Day weekend, what almost it is, and it 25 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 1: seems the labor market left a lot of people wishing 26 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: for more last month. As we learned this morning, the 27 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: economy created two hundred and thirty five thousand jobs in August. 28 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: Even as economists we're looking for something north of seven 29 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: hundred thousand. That's a miss. President Biden tried to put 30 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: the numbers today in perspective. Well, I know some wanted 31 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: to see a larger number to day and show to 32 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: die what we've seen this year as a continued growth 33 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: month after month in job creation. It's not just that 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: I've hadded more jobs than any first year president in 35 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: the first year any president. It's that we've added jobs 36 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: in every single one of my first seven job reports. 37 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: And wages are going up. Wages are going up, indeed, 38 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: six tenths of a percent in August, that is twice 39 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: as much as forecast. As the labor participation rates stayed 40 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: right where it was from the month elder it didn't budge, 41 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: making many wonder if people have given up looking for work. 42 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: At least some COVID looms large. And there's a lot 43 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: to cover in this report, so let's get to it 44 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: with us. Labor Secretary Marty Walsh, Mr Secretary, welcome back 45 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Sound On. Thank you for having me today, 46 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: and I wish I want to wish everyone a happy 47 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: Labor Day. Yeah, this is a big weekend for you 48 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: here and we're trying to make sense of the numbers 49 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: as we go into labor day. Are you disappointed by 50 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: the drop or did you see it coming? I wouldn't 51 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: have disappointed. I mean this is this is a steady 52 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: growth that we're seeing here in our economy. You know, 53 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: over the last three months, seven hundred fifty jobs. Obviously, 54 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: you know, if you listen to the forecast, is it 55 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: looks like it was well under But if you listen 56 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: to forecast, is last months we were well oh or 57 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: I think it's it's all of the all of the 58 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: reality of the situation while living in with an increase 59 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: in delta variant um. You know, obviously we saw some 60 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: no growth in the in the leisure hospitality area, and 61 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: that kind of led the charge for the last three months. 62 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: It just shows we still have work to do as 63 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: a country in defeating the coronavirus and making sure that 64 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: people are safe by getting people vaccinated. Uh, and we 65 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: just want to continue to grow. If this was a 66 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: normal time, two thirty five thousand, two thousand job growth 67 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: would be a great number. But obviously we're not living 68 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: right now in normal times. Well, that's for sure. I 69 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: just wondered how frustrated you were seeing COVID, you know, 70 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: back in the headlines and getting the blame again here 71 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: because this was supposed to be the period of time 72 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: people were getting ready to go back to work, right. Yeah. Concerns. 73 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, when I see the numbers like in 74 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: Florida going up the way they are, concerns me because 75 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: I know that the pain and devastation that that causes 76 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: in the community. I know the stress it causes to 77 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: our hospitals to them, I know the stress acrosses to 78 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: our restaurants and hospitality and tourism industry. I mean I 79 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: saw it firsthand as the mayor of Boston, and I 80 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: know that we could all be encouraging people to be 81 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: vaccinated and taking care of their health, and unfortunately the 82 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: mixed messages isn't helpening. And I think it's really important 83 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: that we continue to get people vaccinated. You know, the 84 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: best economic recovery we can have in this country is 85 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: by keeping people safe and alive and allow them the 86 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: opportunity to be able to better themselves in it with 87 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: a job. And I think that we're at the point 88 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: in this virus that we just need to continue to 89 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: stay very diligent on that. There are some concerns about 90 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: the labor workforce participation rate. Uh. Secretary Walsh, are you 91 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: worried that some people might be stopping looking for work altogether? No, 92 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: I think people are. I think there's two things going 93 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: on with that participation rate that I would say probably 94 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: the biggest drivers. One is is that the people's just 95 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: outright fear of their personal health, uh, in the in 96 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: the in the pandemic. And number two, I would say 97 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: also the second part of that is a lack of 98 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: child care or lack of schools being open. And I 99 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: think as as we think about this week coming on 100 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: on Monday, the unemployment extra unemployment benefit will be expired, 101 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: but also for the last week and then into next week, 102 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: schools will be reopening, so parents will have places for 103 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: kids to go. That's why I think it's so important 104 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: for us to focus on making sure that that Americans 105 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: are getting vaccinated. Does that mean we could have a 106 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: bigger month in September? And I know you're not looking 107 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: at a crystal ball right now, Secretary. We've got a 108 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: concern about the impact of this hurricane too, that can 109 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: have a multi month impact on the job market, which 110 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: appears to be a good swath of the country here. Yeah, 111 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: there's no question about the hurricane and hurricane season is 112 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: concerning and global warming. We're worried about that obviously with 113 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: these increased hurricanes and the survey of them. But but 114 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: also you know, I think that the fact that the 115 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: pandemic has been so unpredictable, I mean, it's really been 116 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: when you think about from from February today, there has 117 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: been very few consistent months here, whether it's been infection rates, 118 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: UH death rates, um vaccine rates. So so we have 119 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: to get more consistent on getting more people vaccinated. When 120 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: we saw in the beginning of President Biden's presidency, when 121 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: when he when he put out there hundred hundred million 122 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: vaccine shots. In the first hundred days, it was able 123 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: to two hundred million. We saw the direct impact of 124 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: that those vaccines working before roughly four million, four point 125 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: five million people have gone back to work. It's the 126 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: largest job growth in the history of any presidency at 127 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: this point. So I think that we just have to 128 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: look at what's worked and can be consistent. When we 129 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: listen to the CDC guidelines, we see lower infection rates. 130 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,799 Speaker 1: We just need to continue to follow the SIME Leisure 131 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: and hospitality the sore spot this month. It's one of 132 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: the areas. And also I think that you know, it's 133 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: not going to get a lot of headlines, but I think, uh, 134 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: nursing homes and personal care attendants for for for elderly. 135 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: I think this is the second month we didn't see 136 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: any growth in that area as well, and and that 137 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: shows the need for investments from the Build Back Better agenda, 138 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: which makes investments in here the kres economy, particularly both 139 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: for children as well but for a doubt care. We 140 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: saw average hourly earnings jump again up six tenths last month. Secretary. 141 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: This is good for workers, but are you hearing from 142 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: employers who are who are worried about affording this labor crunch. No, 143 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: I haven't hear anything from employers, and I think that 144 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: I don't think that I'm going to be the right 145 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: person to talk about this. I think getting better wages 146 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: for workers in America is good. I think companies have 147 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: the ability to do that. Most companies the ability to 148 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: pay more. And I think that we have to continue 149 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: to respect the worker because if you have a good, 150 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: strong workforce, you're gonna have a good, strong company, and 151 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to make good, strong profits. Hopefully. 152 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: All of this stuff, of course, lends itself to the 153 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: conversation that you've been having for months, Secretary Walsh, and 154 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: that is about infrastructure spending. We've got a couple of 155 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: different bills here, and I don't need to tell you 156 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: about that, but I wonder if you're still confident you 157 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: can fill the number of jobs for construction projects your 158 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: old trade, the building trades in that by part as 159 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: an infrastructure bill. That's one. Then this reconciliation, the cares 160 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: economy you just talked about, how would that spending get 161 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: more people back to work? Well, I think, first and 162 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: almost I think with the with the Infrastructure Bill. In 163 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: the construction industry, there's a lot of seasonal work that 164 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: that's working this summer. As the summer goes down, they'll 165 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: be able to shift into other construction jobs. But at 166 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's going to come down 167 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: to job training and creating pathways and in the Build 168 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: Back Better agenda. Uh, there's major investments in job training 169 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: in that bill, not just for the construction industry, but 170 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: for for other industries. And you know, I was in 171 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: I was in Phoenix, Arizona a couple weeks ago when 172 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: I was talking to some CEOs from hospitals and their 173 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: concern was nursing shortages in the next ten years in 174 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: that country. So we have the ability to to to 175 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: to to create programs to encourage people to go into 176 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: nursing programs. We have a wait list of sixty people 177 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: to want to get into nursing and there's not enough spots, 178 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: so we have to think about expanding that mental health services. 179 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: We have a need for mental health counselors in schools 180 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: across America, in an industry at West America, so we 181 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: have the ability to make path plays there. So we 182 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: really with with a major investment in job training and 183 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: workforce developed, and we have an opportunity to train workers 184 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: in those jobs that otherwise having a hot time being filled. 185 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: Secretary Walsh, as we head into this important holiday weekend, 186 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: what is the state of labor in this country? I mean, 187 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: I think the stair of labor is getting stronger. Do 188 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: we have a president that that believes in working people, 189 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: the president that that believes in building back better and 190 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: creating pathways into the future. And the president also that 191 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,599 Speaker 1: believes that he wants America to win the future. And 192 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: the way you win in the future is by is 193 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: by training and in supporting our working people across the country. 194 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: And I also just want to stay as we're heading 195 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 1: into Labor Day, the second labor day during the pandemic, 196 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: I want to thank the essential workers, first responders, hospital teams, nurses, 197 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: doctors for the work they have done. They have not 198 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: slowed down since the beginning pandemic. They're working under very difficult, 199 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: dangerous circumstances, and I don't want to thank them all 200 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: for their work. I want to thank all workers in America, 201 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: but in particular our essential workers, first responders and hospital 202 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: personnel for the amazing work they have done keeping us healthy, safe, 203 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: alive and fed. They sure have. Secretary, I mentioned the 204 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 1: hurricane before I let you go. If you had a 205 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: chance to check in on your basement up in Boston, 206 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: stry it's dry. We've got a lot of rain the 207 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: last ten days, so it's dry right now. So hopefully 208 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: always great to talk to you. I'd like to call 209 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: you a mayor, but it's Secretary Marty Walsh with us 210 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: again on Bloomberg Radio. Happy Labor Day, sir, I believe, 211 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: Thank you. And talking about the economy today, President Biden 212 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: tried to separate Main Street from Wall Street. There's been 213 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: so many records. The stock market has hit under my presidency, 214 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: magically the other guy was here. We're doing great. It's wonderful. 215 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: The stock market is surgery. It's kind of higher to 216 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: me than anybody. But that doesn't that doesn't mean that 217 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: is the best for the economy. Pointing to his Build 218 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: Back Better agenda, think of that as infrastructure reconciliation will 219 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: include higher taxes for the wealthy and for corporations. He 220 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: made the case for also tax cuts, he says, for 221 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: the middle class. And boy, what a week. Everyone's obsessed 222 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: with jobs today. Do you remember where this week started Afghanistan, 223 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 1: the withdrawal, the mess, followed by Hurricane Ida, another mess, 224 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: the debate around infrastructure. Joe Mansion weighs in, of course, 225 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: Texas and the abortion law, and now this job's report. 226 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: It's a lot for Joe Biden to think about this 227 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: weekend and for our panel coming up next. Democrats in 228 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: the Senate today say they're working through some creative ideas 229 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: to generate more money to pay for all of this, 230 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk about it next with the panel. 231 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Government's Jack Fitzpatrick will be here along with Bloomberg 232 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: White House editor Alex Wayne here on Bloomberg sound On. 233 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: We'll check the markets, will check traffic two along the way, 234 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: so stay here. I'm Joe Matthew. We're just getting started. 235 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg son On with Joe 236 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The headline on the terminal Senate 237 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: Democrats I taxes on stock buybacks, excess CEO pay. This 238 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: has been generating a lot of talk and that's where 239 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: we begin with our panel on Bloomberg sound On. We're 240 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: joined by Jack Fitzpatrick, of course, Bloomberg Government reporter and 241 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: a regular here on sound On. We're also joined today 242 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: by Bloomberg White House lead editor Alex Wayne. It's great 243 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: to have both of you with us here. Alex, I'll 244 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: start with you because we don't get to do this 245 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: very often. The headline here is followed by the top 246 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: graph that says, these are beyond the proposals, the tax 247 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: proposals that have come from even President Joe Biden. Did 248 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: the White House no, this was about to start. Yeah, 249 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: you know, the White House is in is in close 250 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: contact with with uh, with Democrats on on this, um, 251 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: this three and a half trillion dollar package of spending 252 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: and tax increases. UM. So I don't believe this came 253 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: as a surprise to them. UM. You know, I kind 254 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: of suspect that that Joe Biden is not too particular 255 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: about the offsets about to pay force for this thing. Uh. 256 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: He certainly wants to raise taxes on from people and 257 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: on corporations. UM. But pretty much the only red line 258 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: that he's drawn is no tax increases for people under 259 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: four thousand dollars a year, making under earning under four 260 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars a year, UM. And beyond that. I 261 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: you know, I sort of I get the idea. That 262 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: is his feeling is, you know, Congression on Democrats, go 263 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: knock yourselves out? How about that? So he may not 264 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: have come up with the idea, but he's fine with 265 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: it as long as you get the money somehow. Uh. 266 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: Levy's on stock buybacks, jack carbon emissions, executive compensation, and 267 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: this goes on. We're even talking about a potential tax 268 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: on unrealized capital games. When you've got Joe Biden signing 269 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: off on something like this, and you've got Joe Mansion 270 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: saying three and a half trillion is too much money. 271 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: We need to have a strategic pause. Is any of 272 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: this going anywhere? Yeah? I think you're right to be 273 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: concerned about how this plays with Senator Mansion rather than 274 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: the president, because Biden has it talked about. You know, 275 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: this is that he has some flexibility. That's the hand 276 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: in the hands of Congress. He's done his redline on 277 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: no tax increases for people making less than four hundred thousand, 278 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: but he hasn't drawn a bunch of other red lines. Mansion, meanwhile, 279 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: is the one who has said, actually, I don't even 280 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: think we should increase the corporate tax rate to twenty percent. 281 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: It should be more like these are the kinds of 282 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: things that maybe would worry him and you you have 283 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: a problem in the Senate with moderates and maybe even 284 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: in the House with moderates rather than problems with the president. 285 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: What's your take on that, Alex. As we're we're talking 286 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: about a lot of different taxes that could be going 287 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: up here. Jack just mentioned the corporate rate for we're 288 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: talking on the House side about capital gains increases. We're 289 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: talking on the Senate side now about coming up with 290 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: quite a number of new ones, including a different form 291 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: of the estate tax. Is this going to be some 292 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: sort of grab bag or buffet of tax hikes or 293 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: will this narrow itself down to something realistic? It'll there's 294 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: there's gonna be a pretty drawn out negotiation, I think 295 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: in the in the months they had, especially with Joe Manson, 296 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: and Jack said, Joe mansion is becoming a real headache 297 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: for the White House here. Um, if if they can't 298 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: get you know, just looking at it from um from 299 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: thirty thousand feet, not having it as as close the 300 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: field for Congress as Jack probably does. Um, if they 301 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: can't get Joe Manson to back a three and a 302 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: half trillion dollar budgets and and tax and spending plan. 303 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: The progressives over in the House aren't going to vote 304 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: for the one trillion dollar infrastructure bill, and and so Biden. 305 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: You know, there's some risk here that Biden's left with nothing. 306 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: I think um so so, I think um. I think 307 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: that Mansion in the in the Wall Street Journal probably 308 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: probably send a chill down if you spind in the 309 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: White House. I'm sure that's right. I know he wrote 310 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: the op ed Jack, but his Kirsten Cinema any different 311 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: on this. We should we assume they feel the same way. 312 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: She has said pretty similar things. She has said she 313 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: doesn't like the three and a half trillion doctors the process, well, 314 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: she hasn't said that she had. That was a bit 315 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: of a confusing comment by Mansion that he said in 316 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: person at a discussion and then we included in the 317 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: op ed. The thing is, they can't really pause this 318 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: very much. He even voted for the Reconciliation instructions that 319 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: have a September fifteen deadline to mark this up and 320 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: send it to the Budget Committee. So he knows that 321 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: you can't delay this chronologically very much. You can shrink it. 322 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: But they don't have many opportunities for a delay, And 323 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: of course, if he blows this whole thing up, intentionally 324 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: or not, he can't go home and tell everyone in 325 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: West Virginia that we got to the BI partis an 326 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: infrastructure deal that I helped to craft. Right. That's why 327 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,239 Speaker 1: I think at this point the conversation still appears not 328 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: to be a binary issue of are you going to 329 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: support this or are you going to tank it? It's okay, 330 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: it's probably not going to be three and a half 331 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: trillion dollars, but what is the number going to be 332 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: on this reconciliation bill. It's probably gonna shrink because you've 333 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: heard from Mansion and Cinema saying they don't like that 334 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: top line. There's gonna have to be a conversation about 335 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: how much they're willing to raise in tax revenue. It 336 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: could get significantly smaller, but they haven't gotten to the 337 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: end of the road where it's an up or down vote, 338 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: and the conversations definitely can still continue about the size 339 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: that those moderates would actually be willing to support. At 340 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: what point does the president care enough to get into 341 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: details here, Alex or is that just not going to happen, 342 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: bring me a certain dollar amount and figure it out 343 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: on your own, or will he actually start to to 344 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: pass through these ideas and endorse some of them. So 345 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: the White House does not read out to us all 346 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: of his calls with members of Congress, but it seems 347 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: that he is on the phone quite often with with folks, 348 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: including Joe Mansion Um to try to work these things out. Um. 349 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: You know, he likes to chide the press sometimes he 350 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: tells us, you all didn't think that I'd get the 351 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: one shilling the bipartisan infrastructure real done, and I did. 352 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: So he you know, he he believes he knows better 353 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: than we do what's going on in Congress. Um. So 354 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: I would expect that he's been on the phone time 355 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: this week with with some key members on the Capitol 356 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: to try to try to smooth things over. Alex Wayne 357 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: and Jack Fitzpatrick will stay with us, will bring back 358 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: the pan a little bit later on this hour, and 359 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: we'll let you know what the President said about this 360 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: whole tax framework today as we start the Blue Sky 361 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue, Stay with us, Son, 362 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg Broadcasting live from our nation's capital. 363 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg to New York, Bloomberg eleven, Frio to San Francisco, 364 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg nine sixty to the country, Sirius XM Cheneral one 365 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: nine and around the globe Bloomberg Business app Ben Bloomberg 366 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: Radio Doctor. This is Bloomberg, So On with Joe Matthew 367 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: and we carry on on a Friday with taxes on 368 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: the brain today as we read, Senate Democrats are eyeing 369 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: taxes on stock buybacks, excess CEO pay, even unrealized capital gains, 370 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: as we just discussed with the panel, and we'll bring 371 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: this up in a moment with Douglas Holtz Eakin of 372 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: the American Action Forum Network, former CBO director, former chief 373 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: economist of President H. W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisors. 374 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: He's coming straight up. We thought we had heard it 375 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: all with some of these tax ideas today, unrealized capital gains, 376 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: excess CEO pay, this is really just blue Sky time. Now. 377 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: We're just really starting the debate, and it's only on 378 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 1: the Senate side. The House Ways and Means Committee has 379 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: its own ideas, but this is the talk right now, 380 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: as you've just heard with our panel, and we get 381 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: to talk about it again with Douglas Holtzkin. That's at 382 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: least where we begin. President of the American Act and 383 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: form former CBO director used to advise presidents, George H. W. Bush, 384 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: it's great to have you back, Douglas. I wonder where 385 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: your head is on this whole idea as we head 386 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: for some very legitimate debate over paying for infrastructure for reconciliation. 387 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: Are we going to have any of these become reality. 388 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: Well that remains to be seen. But I think there's 389 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: a whole lot of bad tax policy discussion right now. Um. 390 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: You know, there's this notion that somehow you can pick 391 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: some people, someone with a big I RA or someone 392 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: with large unrealized capital gains and and tax them and 393 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: and presumably punish them for whatever behavior they've they've done. 394 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: But you don't isolate people in the ecompany. Right, that's 395 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: the source of risk capital. And if the risk capital 396 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 1: gets misallocated or drives up hers productivity, her wages, and 397 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: it hurts the middle class people who mustent we're supposed 398 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: to be the target of these policies. So uh, it 399 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: would be a good idea for everyone to step back, 400 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: take a breath, and and decide what's an efficient way 401 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: to raise taxes, what's gonna in the long run be 402 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: beneficial to the workers and the growth in their wages. 403 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: And a lot of these ideas really just are not 404 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: some industry on the table. I think that's what Joe 405 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: Manchin said, to step back, they could break take a look. 406 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: But the clock's taking here, of course, and and of course, well, 407 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: we need to pay for something, obviously, if it's going 408 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: to be two and a half or three and a 409 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: half trillion dollars, I just wonder if part of the 410 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: problem is we're doing this backwards. We're starting with the 411 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: number and then we're trying to backfill and and then 412 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: invent kind of what's going in it instead of the 413 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: other way around, determining how much money we have and 414 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: what it should be spent on. Well, I think that's right. 415 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: The starting point should always be the spending. Washington loves 416 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: to talk about taxes. They always talk about tax policy, 417 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: But once you decided to spend the money, you have 418 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: uh got to pay for one way or another. So 419 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: the starting with the spending is a mistakes starting with 420 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,959 Speaker 1: the number and not a policy as a mistake, And 421 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: on the spending side, there's some pretty questionable um notions 422 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: out there right now as well. If you look at 423 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: today's jobs report, what jumps out to me at least 424 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: is it this is once again about the coronavirus. We 425 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: saw leisure and hostility go from hiring four people last 426 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: month and none this month. That's the real hole in 427 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: this report. Outside of that, it's actually pretty good. So 428 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: what's the policy application deal with the coronavirus? Not spend 429 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 1: a whole lot of money to try to stimulate the economy. 430 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: And when you look at reporting, once again, the problems 431 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: labor force as patent, we have supply problems and the 432 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: things on the table. Let's send everybody a check every 433 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: month for their kids. They can send it on whatever 434 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: they want. Let's provide um pre healthcare benefits. Let's do 435 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of social welfare setting that's not going 436 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: to bring people into the labor force. And so this 437 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: isn't addressing the problems the economy actually has. The advocacy 438 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: campaign arm of of your group, the American Action Network, 439 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: is part of the lobbying effort against an increase in 440 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: the corporate tax rate capital gains taxes. President Biden talked 441 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: about this lobbying effort today, you know, and this is 442 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: worked in the past with significant lobbying efforts. But I 443 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: don't think it's gonna work with me for those big 444 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: corporations that don't want things to change. My messages this 445 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: it's time for working families, the folks who built this country, 446 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: to have their taxes cut. Your point, Douglas old Deacon, 447 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: is that if you hike taxes on companies, they lower production, 448 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: workers end up with less. Is that right. It's a concern. 449 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: I mean, let's uh, let's think about what happened in 450 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: the years leading up to the two thousands of these 451 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 1: tax laws. We lost about ten headquarters every year, and 452 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: we had huge amounts of fighting about uh Benedict Donald 453 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: firms and and the loss of jobs in US because 454 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: they were headquartering overseas. And we haven't lost a single 455 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: headquarters since the corporate rate gut in line with the 456 00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: rest of the world. To turn around and Jack, I 457 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense. We'll start losing those companies again. 458 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: The executives don't get hurt. It's the workers who end 459 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: up getting hurt. And and so if you want to 460 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: raise more money, you can make that case. But how 461 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: you raise it matters, and picking the most damaging way 462 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: of raised tax revenue is the mistake here. Well, the 463 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: American Action Network is part of a pretty broad swath 464 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: Chamber of Commerce business roundtable. We spoke earlier this week 465 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: Doug this with the lobbying arm of the National Association 466 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: of Manufacturers, all planning to spend on TV ads, online ads, 467 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: old good, old fashioned lobbying. Is Joe Biden wrong that 468 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: it won't work this time? I don't know if he's 469 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: right or wrong on the politics. I can tell you 470 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: about the policy. And when he was elected president, I 471 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: would end up on shows like yours and others with 472 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: some of my colleagues from the other side of the island, 473 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: and I would say, can't we all agree that all 474 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: these tax increasures are going to damage the economy. They said, 475 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: oh no, no, don't worry. We're gonna spend it on 476 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: stuff that is so good it'll outweigh those impacts. So 477 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: I commissioned to study arms lengths, so we don't did it. 478 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: I didn't do it. That did a study, just like 479 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: the CDO or the Joint Grantaxation would do the combined 480 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: raise the taxes, spend the money policy, and the net 481 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: result was it hurt the economy. So these are policies 482 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: that will not do what they're advertised to do. They 483 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: will not make things better for the average Americans. So 484 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: let's not do them. Let's do things that actually will. 485 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: How much is your group spending on this? Oh I'm 486 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: not involved in that part, but the network side, but 487 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you. UM. Stuff I do is just 488 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: do the policy analysis. And UM, you know, as you 489 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: well know, UH, policy doesn't always win in policy versus politics. 490 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: But believes that we ought to We ought at least 491 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,959 Speaker 1: know what we're getting into. With regard to the weaker 492 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: than expected jobs report today, How does that inform your 493 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: decision on taxes? Uh? It doesn't change mind very much, 494 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: to be honest. Um, this isn't really about the economic policy. 495 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: This is about the coronavirus. We've seen this pattern now 496 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: with the big hit lab UH last second quarter. We 497 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: saw it again late in late fall early winner. We've 498 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: seen it again with regional outbreaks. So we see these 499 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: cases rise and the most exposed sector is leisure and 500 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: hospitality and personal services, and and people sort of try 501 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: to try to avoid that, and we get weakness there, 502 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 1: but didn't happen all through the economy. I mean, we 503 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: saw overall sty wolves rise at a nine points percent 504 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: annual rate. That people hours and wages. That's a lot 505 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: of demands for labor. That's a very healthy Douglas Hultek 506 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: and I always wish I had more time with the 507 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: American Action Forum president, former director of the CBO, longtime 508 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: economic advisor at the White House and back in the 509 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: old John McCain campaign as well. We'll bring the panel 510 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: back next. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg, So On 511 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthews on Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for being with 512 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: us the Friday edition of Bloomberg. Sound on as we 513 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: round the bend here on the fastest hour in politics 514 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: with our panel. Jack is back. Jack Fitzpatrick, Bloomberg government 515 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: reporter who lives and breathes Capitol Hill, along with Bloomberg 516 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: News White House lead editor Alex Wayne. I don't need 517 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: to tell you where he is covering things as we 518 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: continue the conversation about taxes and spending and and exactly 519 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: what is about to happen next. Jack, why don't you 520 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: start off this time when you come back from the 521 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: long holiday weekend I hope you do have a long one. 522 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: What's the next stop on the road. I know September 523 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: fift is a major deadline here, as you already pointed out, 524 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: for committees to get their work done. What happens between 525 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: now and then they hold markups. And it is probably 526 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: a sign of how fast they're moving that we still 527 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: don't have a schedule for next week's markups, other than 528 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: they have already started the real small parts. Not to 529 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: get into the weeds, but you know this is dispersed 530 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: among a dozen or so committees in the House and Senate. 531 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: The Oversight Committee had a little tiny portion on g 532 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: s A on government vehicles going electric. They just marked 533 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: that up yesterday. Natural Resources continues to mark up next week. 534 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: There will probably be a bunch more next week. But 535 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: this is moving so fast that they're probably going to 536 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: schedule them last minute, So they gotta keep working on 537 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: all the details, send it to the Budget Committee by 538 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: the fifteenth, which is the Wednesday after next and then 539 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: they can try to take it to the floor. Now 540 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: we've been talking about this for so long, Alex, it's 541 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: kind of amazing we're actually here. I spoke earlier this 542 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: week with the chairman of the House Rules Committee, Congressman 543 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 1: Jim McGovern, who still was expressing at least confidence. He said, 544 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: we have to get it done with regard to the 545 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: Reconciliation Bill, which of course Nancy Pelosi promised would be 546 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: done by the right of September, or at least would 547 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: get it done so we could vote on the Bipartis 548 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: an infrastructure deal by the September? Is this timeline about 549 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: to go up and smoke? I think it's probably reasonable 550 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: for the House, which has you know, the House is 551 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: kind of run like almost like a little a little 552 00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: autocracy there. I would speak of the House able to 553 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: sort of schedule us when ever seen one, So I 554 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: think she'll be able to move things along a little 555 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: faster than the Senate. The Senate is where all this 556 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: is gonna bog down, I think, um, particularly after Joe 557 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: Mansion's off that the other day that we already talked about. Um. 558 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: So yeah, I would would surprised me at the House 559 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: hits that September deadline or comes close to it. Um. 560 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: But then we'll see what happens after that. Is that 561 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: enough to make the progressives happy? Jack? If that happens? Uh? 562 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it depends how much gets cut off of this. 563 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: It's it's a little hard to figure out how much 564 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: this Senate is going to follow the Houses lead. The 565 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: Houses sort of working on this ahead of the Senate 566 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: in this round of of negotiations. But I still think 567 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: the key issue is just instead of a binary decision 568 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: between blowing it all up or getting everything, the question 569 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: is how much do the moderate It's actually one that's 570 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: the conversation that has to happen because it could be 571 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: a number that progressives are happy with. If you want 572 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: to take a trillion dollars off of it, that may 573 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: not be a deal breaker. But the schedule, the schedule 574 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: is challenging. But that's not the X factor. The X 575 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: factor is really, Okay, Senator Mansion, what's your top line? 576 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: And the same to Senator Cinema. So again, alex Joe 577 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: Mansion is the most powerful man in Washington right now? 578 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: Is he? Sometimes it seems like that, Yeah, yeah, I 579 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: imagine that the White House would probably some people in 580 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: the White House might might agree with you once in 581 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: a while. Um, you know, I Jack is right that 582 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: they're going to have to claw a number out of Mansion. 583 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: But but then they're gonna have to take that number 584 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: back to the progressives in the House. You know, I was, 585 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: I was kind of taking it back at how how 586 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: harsh Alexander A. Kazy Cortez was yesterday was already in 587 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: Joe mansion. They can lose. They gonna lose what four 588 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: votes in the House. It's incredibly narrow. It's more narrow 589 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: than three. And so if you know, if if the 590 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: squad decides they don't like mansion number, um, that that 591 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: could blow up the Byparti's infrastructure bill, and then and 592 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: then the whole the whole thing kind of collapses. So 593 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: I I still like, you know, it's it's pretty it's frankly, 594 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 1: it's gotten more interesting to cover, I think as as 595 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: as a package of legislation hit some stumbling blocks. Um, 596 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: it's um, it's it's pretty fascinating that the dynamic that's 597 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: going on. I can just see Joe Biden smirking at 598 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: hearing you say that, alex But what's the view of 599 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: the White House now? Is this all just noise or 600 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: is this thing really teetering on the edge? No? I 601 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: you know, I Joe Biden is keeps expressing confidence. He 602 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, he he kind of he took the bad 603 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: jobs report this morning as a as a reason to 604 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: again count his economic proposals. He said, what he's done 605 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: so far is already working, and they need to do 606 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: more of it. They need to listen, like listen to 607 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: Joe Biden and pass what he wants to do and 608 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: in order to get to the economy really cooking. Um 609 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: so he you know, he, I think they saw the 610 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: jobs report as as an opportunity a little bit this morning, 611 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: not not strictly a disappointment, and um and and and 612 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: and they're probably hoping that that that the you know, 613 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: the kind of backslide in the economy here we saw 614 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: in August will will actually sort of ironically add some 615 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: momentum to the push for Joe Biden's economic composes. The 616 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: President talked about some of the ideas that we've been 617 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: hashing out this hour when it comes to raising taxes. 618 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: Right now, the House and Senator working on my plan 619 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: to generate a fair tax system, enclosed loopholes of big 620 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: corporations and super oughly used to pay less. To give 621 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,479 Speaker 1: you one example, there's a group of experts left, right 622 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: and center who estimate right now we lose more than 623 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: one hundred billion dollars a year and tax revenue owned 624 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: from the top one percent of tax payers along, not 625 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: because of low tax rates, but because the wealthy people 626 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: aren't paying the taxes. They Oh, well, that's when we 627 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: haven't heard in a little bit. Is there a chance, Jack, 628 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: that we get back to I R S enforcement. Didn't 629 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: they knock that out of the first plan? Uh? Yeah, 630 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: that was an issue with the first plan because there're 631 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: started to be pushed back from Republicans. Um, that is 632 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: probably gonna end up being part of the conversation for 633 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,719 Speaker 1: this reconciliation bill because Democrats are still happy with that idea. 634 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: The CBO, though, gave a score uh that I am 635 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: trying to remember the specific number, and it was lower 636 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: than what Biden expected if you uh give eighty billion 637 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: dollars extra. Uh. The number that the CBO just came 638 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: out with was not quite what the Biden administration was 639 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: hoping for, so as it pertains to actually being a 640 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: pay for it might not be as satisfying to them 641 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: through the rules of Congress as as much as a 642 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: talking point. Is that something that the White House wants 643 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: to pursue here, Alex It was awfully controversial when it 644 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: was being debated a couple of months ago. Yeah, I 645 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: mean since since Joe Biden talked about it this morning, 646 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: I would gather he's looking to to still do something 647 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 1: on enforcement. But but Jack's right that that that it 648 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: just it just doesn't produce as much money as as 649 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: Democrats would hope. They're they're all sorts of these like 650 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: magical pay fors around around floating around Washington these days. 651 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: You know, things that things that lawmakers think basically can 652 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: produce revenue without really hurting anybody. Jack's pulling out the 653 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: number in real time here. What are you reading a 654 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: CBO report on my fine? You spend eighty billion dollars 655 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: over ten years, you get another two hundred billion in 656 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: additional revenue. So that's only a hundred twenty billion that 657 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: you gain. If you want a three and a half 658 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: trillion dollar bill or something massive, you really have to 659 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: get into more serious stuff like the corporate tax rate. Well, okay, 660 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: and that's not going to happen easily. Alex No, absolutely, absolutely, 661 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: you know, I think I think Democrats are all on 662 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: board and raising the corporate tax rate somewhat to some 663 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: number above. No Democrats supported Trump's tax cuts, and so 664 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: they're they're all they're all on board with erasing some 665 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: of the Donald Trump tax cuts. So so the corporate 666 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: tax rate will will get raised to something. But you 667 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: know that that's just a matter of that's pretty I 668 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: think probably a pretty used negotiation with Joe Manson and 669 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: just stick and move on to something else. It is 670 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: interesting how the news that you can't plan for, the 671 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: White House couldn't plan for can often help the argument. 672 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: You pointed out alex weaker than expected jobs report, while 673 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: you turn that into uh, a need for infrastructure spending 674 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: and and and maybe Trump some of the earlier months. 675 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: But this is you know, this is why we need 676 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: a middle class tax cut, Hurricane Ida lands, this is 677 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: why we need Jack money for climate change. For instance, 678 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: he's in Louisiana making that case today. Yeah, that's going 679 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: to be a case that the Democrats make for the 680 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: climate provisions of the Reconciliation bill. It's interesting that that 681 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: also plays into the push for hard infrastructure spending, although 682 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,319 Speaker 1: obviously they've already managed to pass that bill through the Senate. Uh, 683 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: that that ties into a lot of what Democrats want 684 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: to do, but also it challenges things because at some 685 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: point they're probably going to have to pass a separate 686 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: bill and carve out time on the congressional calendar just 687 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: to actually pay for some of the damage incurred from 688 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 1: the hurricane. So it may be a good rhetorical advice, 689 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: but it also kind of makes things more difficult for 690 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: them getting things done. Way, isn't that a riot? Well, 691 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: I'll tell you you, guys, ever heard of the waffle 692 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: house Index? As we're talking about Ida, I understand that 693 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: the federal government actually uses you. A waffle house guy, Alex, 694 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: I love waffle house and I knew you. You know, 695 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 1: I'm from the South. I there's a great place to 696 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: go after a one night drinking in college. See a 697 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: guy like me from the Northeast. This is exotic, This 698 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: is exotic cooking. You get your hands on those hash browns. 699 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: I remember, I remember, I've heard about the index. I 700 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: forget what. I forget what it is, so remind me. Well, 701 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: it's based on the number of waffle houses that are 702 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: open or closed. Because well, I mean, as Jack will 703 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: tell you, waffle houses never closed, so it takes a 704 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: big something to shut them down. And in the case 705 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 1: of major storms or in the case of COVID even 706 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,479 Speaker 1: we follow the waffle House index based on how many 707 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: stores are able to open their doors and you know, 708 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 1: cook coffee for everybody because you know, Jack, they never close. Yeah, 709 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: it's you know, if the street lights are on, the 710 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: waffle houses probably open. By the way, As a Northerner 711 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 1: who then moved to Kentucky, my greatest revelation of moving 712 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: to the South was how much people love waffle house 713 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: cultural institution and it kind of explains why. Yeah, there 714 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: are certain businesses that you can look at and if 715 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: they're if they're open consistently enough, that shows you the 716 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 1: extent of the damage. And waffle House is kind of 717 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: the gold standard, invented by a former FEMA director, Craig Fugate, 718 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: who was on with us earlier today on Balance of Power. 719 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: I have been brought in on this very important and 720 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: you know we're all about indexes here at Bloomberg. I'll 721 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: take a couple scrambled bacon. You gotta get the hashbrowns, right, 722 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: waffle House Hashbrowns. Don't mess with it. Alex Wayne, thanks 723 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,839 Speaker 1: for putting up with me and Jack, you're stuck with me. 724 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. Sound on, have a long weekend. I'm 725 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg