1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: the next year is going to be an ugly election 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 1: year in which you can expect very little to get 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: done to Debt's going to become a fernitia political tool, 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: which doesn't help you the party. Bloomberg Sound on Politics, 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: Policy and Perspective from DC's Top Names work. Confident at 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: the end of the day that the Senate is gonna 8 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: put American families first heard thirty million Americans are expecting 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: and waiting for us to move the ball forward and 10 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: get stuff done. And when that doesn't happen, in his frustration, 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio Live 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: from Washington, where things are happening. They just passed it 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: sixty seconds ago, send it past the debt ceiling measure. 14 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: Defense spending is next on the itinerary, but still no 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: real sense of where the president's social spending plan is heading, 16 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: even after the meeting of the Joe's And so we 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: begin the fastest hour in politics. One big question what 18 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: happens if there's no build back better this year? The 19 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 1: biggest impact could be the loss of the child tax credit. 20 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: And we'll hear what the White House is saying about that, 21 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: and we'll discuss as well with Katherine and Edwards, economist 22 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,559 Speaker 1: at the Rand Corporation. Will connect with Bloomberg Government's Emily 23 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: Wilkins on Capitol Hill for the latest on all of this. 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: That vote again raising the debt limit by two and 25 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: a half trillion dollars and now heads to the House 26 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: that is breaking right now on the terminal. Later, we'll 27 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: turn to the Select Committee investigating January six, the House 28 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: poised to recommend Mark Meadows become the first White House 29 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: Chief of staff to face criminal charges since hr Haldiman 30 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: almost fifty years ago. We explore the case with Michael 31 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: Zelden today, former federal prosecutor, former special counsel to Robert Muller. 32 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: We'll talk about it all with our signature panel. Bloomberg 33 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: Politics contributors Jeanie Schanzano and Rick Davis are with us 34 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: for the hour. Lawmakers voting on both sides of the 35 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: Capitol today. On the House side, members deciding whether to 36 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: recommend former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows face 37 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: criminal contempt charge just while the Senate votes to raise 38 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: the debt ceiling. It just happened as we took air 39 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: two and a half trillion dollars. So let's get right 40 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: to where things are happening. Now. We're joined by Bloomberg 41 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: Government's Emily Wilkins, who is in the Senate as we speak. 42 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: It's a done deal. What's next, Emily? Now it goes 43 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: to the House. Uh. The House has said, we've heard 44 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: from House Majority Leader Stenny Hoyer that they want to 45 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: take this up today, that it might be a late night, 46 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: but they are gained to do it. Not necessarily a guarantee. 47 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: Still could happen tomorrow morning, but at this point, every 48 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: momentum is there. The hardest votes are over. Uh. The 49 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: they just need to get this to the House, which 50 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: of course is on its own busy agenda today. They're 51 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: currently talking about holding Trump's for former chief of staff 52 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: and contempt. Busy, busy day on the houses. Everyone tries 53 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: to wrap up for what could potentially be one of 54 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: the last days of the year. Yeah, we're getting close here. 55 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: Of course, both of these were expected to pass. Right 56 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: The real news to the Emily two and a half 57 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: trillion dollars. Does that bias time through the mid terms? 58 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: We don't have to talk about this again for a year. 59 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: It's gonna as time until early according to what Senate 60 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: Democrats have projected here, So that means that we're going 61 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: to get all the way through the mid terms without 62 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: having to debate this again. Of course, the big question 63 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: then is what does the Congresses makeup look like in 64 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: is this going to be a bunch of Democrats again 65 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: trying to pass it over Republican objections? Are you going 66 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: to have a divided Congress that that could potentially make 67 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: the situation even more difficult. I can't think that far ahead, 68 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: because we still have the matter of build back better. 69 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: The President's social spending plans still bogged down on the 70 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: Senate Emily, where Joe Manchin says he's engaged but clearly 71 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: not ready to approve anything after the meeting with the President, 72 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: and the parliamentarian stillless to make final rulings on what's 73 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: in and what's out of any final legislation. So the 74 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: calendar does not favor getting this done before Christmas, as 75 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: Senator Chuck Schumer hopes, I mean our lawmakers talking honestly 76 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: about this, I mean, it really does not allow us 77 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: to get done. I mean, you would have to see 78 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: some major major movement in the next couple of days. 79 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: And at this point, lawmakers, you know that they know 80 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: that break is coming. They just want to get home, 81 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: want to spend the holidays with their families. They do 82 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: not want to be here in Congress, and they really 83 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: don't see sort of a big incentive to pass the bill, 84 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: so called Build Back Better Bill. Now. I mean, yes, 85 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: there are a couple of tax credits that are expiring 86 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: at the end of the year, but when I've asked 87 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: lawmakers about them, they've pointed out that those text credits 88 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: can be in stated retroactively whenever they finally do get 89 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: the bill across the finish line. There seems to still 90 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,119 Speaker 1: be a lot of confidence that that can be done, 91 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: that they will get this major piece of legislation for 92 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: President Biden to his desk for his signature. But at 93 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: this point, there are still a number of outstanding things, Joe, 94 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: I think you're very right to mention the parliamentary and 95 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: there are still numerous issues that they are looking at. 96 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: We don't yet know what immigration is gonna look like. 97 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: That's a huge provision for a number of lawmakers. We 98 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: still have the state and local tax deduction that we 99 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: haven't figured out we still have paid family medically. We 100 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: haven't figured I mean, there's a list here. I want 101 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: to talk about the child tax credit. The next round 102 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: of checks go out to families tomorrow. That could be 103 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: the last check for a while or ever if if 104 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: this doesn't pass right. We heard some interesting language. I 105 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: want to hear what's going on ran Emily at the 106 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: White House today, though Press Secretary Jen Psaki was asked 107 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: repeatedly about it in the White House briefing. This brings 108 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: us back to yesterday with one example here, doesn't it 109 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: seem like this isn't gonna happen before the holiday? I 110 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: don't think we need we're in a place to make 111 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: that prediction from here, nor is anyone at this point 112 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: in time. I mean, the President supports this package, of 113 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,239 Speaker 1: course because it includes an extension of the child tax credit, 114 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: but also because it will lower the cost of prescription drugs, 115 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: of childcare, of elder care, of housing, key components that 116 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: are impacting people across this country. He thinks that's a 117 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: pretty compelling case. The American public agrees they like all 118 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: of those components too, But he also understands how the 119 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: legislative process works. And we're going to work that day 120 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: by day, okay, And so so the White House doesn't 121 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: want to talk about what ifs as long as there's 122 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: a chance that this legislation passes this year. Emily listened 123 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: to the next go around, there were several This is 124 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: a question from another reporter, at O'Keefe from CBS, asking, well, 125 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,119 Speaker 1: the next obvious question where Congressional Democrats move to stand 126 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: alone piece of legislation that extended to those text for 127 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: the We're not at that point right now. Right now, 128 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: we're continuing to press to get billback better through the Senate. 129 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: Leader Schumer has advocated for that, and that's what we're 130 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: working on at this month here. Move right along until 131 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: we need to talk about that, Emily Wilkins, I just 132 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 1: wonder our democrats on the Hill saying anything about a 133 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: possible interruption or maybe an effort to get a standalone 134 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: child tax credit. Well, it's interesting, Joe, because at this 135 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: point you have a lot of Democrats who are speaking 136 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: up about the child tax credit scene. It's very important. 137 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: We can't let it expire. It's done a lot for families, 138 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: it's super popular, etcetera, etcetera. But when you go ahead 139 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: and ask lawmakers do we need to pass a temporary 140 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: funding A lot of them kind of dodge the question. 141 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: They won't answer it either, because that implies that the 142 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: bigger bill won't pass. Right, they can't do that with you. 143 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: I mean it could be that, but it could also 144 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: be a matter of putting pressure on Mansion and sin 145 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: and maybe others, right exactly. I mean they don't have 146 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: a lot of leverage to move this process faster because 147 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: for the most part this could go into two and 148 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: you're not going to see a lot of Americans impacted. 149 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: But this way they're really trying to put the pressure. 150 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: It's a tactic. You're seeing Schumer undertake. It's a tactic 151 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: you're seeing Pelos the undertake. And of course putting putting 152 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: the pressure on someone for a deadline doesn't work. If 153 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: you know two weeks before the deadline you say, whoop, 154 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: well we've got to plan b. Fair enough, our buddy 155 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: Emily Wilkins Bloomberg Government live in the US Senate tonight. 156 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: We thank you Emily for your reporting. Has always want 157 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: to get an economist view on this, and we welcome 158 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: Katherine and Edwards, economist at the Rand Corporation, Katherine, We 159 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: appreciate your being here. The Center for American Progress says 160 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: ending the child tax credit would pull almost ten million 161 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: children below the poverty line. Is that true from your view? 162 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: And what would it mean for the broader economy if 163 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: that happened? Well, thank you for having me, and you 164 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: know there you won't find an economist out there who 165 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: will tell you that more children in poverty is good 166 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: for our economy in our society. The estimates very based 167 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: on assumptions, which is true for any estimate. Ever, I 168 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: think that the line too kind of the north star 169 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: to keep in your mind is that the goal of 170 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: legislation should be to reduce child poverty where possible in 171 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: order to prove outcomes for those children, those families in 172 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: our economy and society. Um. So there is a little 173 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: bit of kind of Internet singe quibbling. Is it for? 174 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: Is it ten? Um, it's more than zero. I don't 175 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: want to get to the point where we're splitting hairs here, 176 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: but give us a sense of you know, what could 177 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: happen if there was an interruption of lawmakers can't get 178 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: this done. Tomorrow is the last check that goes out. 179 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: There could be a month without another. Granted they could 180 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: pro rate this, maybe makeup and backfill the the payments 181 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: that were that were made or that were lost. Rather, 182 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: what does this mean for families who actually need this 183 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: three a month though? I mean is this are we 184 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: talking grocery money? What's the actual impact on Americans who 185 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: are going to be waiting for that check next month. 186 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: The immediate effects when the first payment went out in 187 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: July were a reduction in reported difficulty in paying household expenses, 188 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: of reduction and the number of households with children that 189 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: were food and secure, and an increase in spending on 190 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: education expenses. So that's what's at stake is that you 191 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: know you've turned on once, bigot. You've introduced a source 192 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: of income for households that they are directing mostly towards 193 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: their children, and you'll turn it back off again. What 194 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: do you say to the argument that we hear from 195 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: a lot of folks who are middle class, have a 196 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: couple of kids, they're doing pretty well, they did not 197 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: lose a job or stop working during COVID, and they say, 198 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: you know what, we don't we don't actually need this money. 199 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: How important is means testing? How important is how important 200 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: or income attaps when it comes to the child tax 201 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: credit and keeping it viable. You know, I would find 202 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: their reaction, you know, interesting, considering that the child tax 203 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: credit has existed since and it had it been in 204 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen. It was two thousand dollars so long 205 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: as you had at least a two thousand dollar tax bill. Right. 206 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: It wasn't fully refundable. It was only partially refundable in 207 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: certain circumstances. So the majority of middle class, upper middle class, 208 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: and frankly rich households already received this credit even when 209 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: we were at full employment, even when we were at 210 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: a booming economy, because the recognition, at least in creating 211 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: a child tax credit is that you want to help 212 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: parents who have children, knowing that they have extra expenses. 213 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: What changed in is that we made sure that people 214 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: who were too poor to claim the credit previously could, 215 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: and we increased it, and we paid it, you know, 216 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: at a little faster interval, right, we accelerated the payment. 217 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: So the question here isn't should the middle class get 218 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: attacks credit. The question here is do we think it's 219 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: worth having children from poor and low income families get 220 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 1: the same credit that children from rich families get That's 221 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: a great answer, Katherine. How worried are you and are 222 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: remaining thirty seconds that this goes away? It would be 223 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: a tragic retreat from progress that was very hard fought 224 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 1: to turn to low income families, to families that have 225 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: been struggling, to say we know what can pull you 226 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: out of this situation, and we simply lack the willpower 227 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: to execute it. We called you because we wanted to 228 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: talk with someone not partisan, not involved in this debate 229 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: on the Hill, and I appreciate your expertise. Catherine and 230 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: Edwards economist at the Rand Corporation. Here on sound On. 231 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: Coming up, we assemble the panel, Rick and Jeanie with 232 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: us for the hour. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. 233 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: You are listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe 234 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio, who says they don't get anything 235 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: done in Congress. The Senate just voted to lift the 236 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: death ceiling. You heard Charlie Pellett and as I read 237 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: on the terminal, Mansion says he's engaged with Biden on 238 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: economic plan. That's gotta be good, right, Well, I'm not 239 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: sure anything changed after the Big meeting of the jo's 240 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: last night, and that's why we're having a conversation today 241 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: about what might go on the first of January of 242 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 1: the President's social spending plan does not actually pass. That's 243 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: why we're zeroing in on the child tax credit for 244 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: a moment, and we want to assemble the panel to 245 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: talk about it a bit more with Bloomberg Politics contributor 246 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: Genie Sheanzano and Rick Davis. This is real stuff here, Genie. 247 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: This is the type of thing that Nancy Pelosi likes 248 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: to talk about, the real policies that are touching real people, 249 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: that are improving families lives. If this bill doesn't pass, though, 250 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 1: we get at least an interruption, and maybe it's the 251 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: end of the road for the expanded child tax credit. 252 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: One of your thoughts on this, and in terms of 253 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: Democrats making plans for this not to pass, should they 254 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: not be pursuing a stand alone agenda. I have always 255 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: thought that stand alone in terms of these critical pieces 256 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: do make sense. I don't see them doing that at 257 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: this point. But let's not forget one of the things 258 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: that Democrats have tried to make the case about and 259 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: is a really important aspect of the build back better 260 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: is about a third of it is to invest in children, 261 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: and that investment is critical to all of our future. 262 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 1: And so when you talk about the child tax credit, 263 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: that's a perfect example of that investment. It. I don't 264 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: think we get this before Christmas. It's possible we get 265 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: it in the new year, but if we don't, they 266 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: should pursue a stand alone because we need to reduce 267 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: child poverty in this country. Democrats plans have been able 268 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 1: to do that so far, and that's critical to all 269 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: of us going forward. Democrats haven't made the best case 270 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: talking about that, but it is critically important that we 271 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: underscore that. Rick I figured Chuck Schumer has got something 272 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: in his pocket here. If they don't get the whole 273 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: thing done by say the middle of January, there's some 274 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: retroactive bill that could be put in place, or or 275 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: do they risk losing the child tax credit and blame 276 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: Republicans for it? You know, I mean, no matter what, 277 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: they're gonna blame Republicans for it. So I think that 278 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: speaks for itself. But um, you know, look, I think 279 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: that that that they're they're hearing good things from Joe Manchin, right, 280 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: he isn't outright saying he's not going to vote for it. 281 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: In fact, I've I've been kind of stunned that he's 282 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: been a little more positive about the one point seven 283 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: five trillion dollar figure um. But the problem is, when 284 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: you start breaking this thing up, how are you gonna 285 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: pay for it? Right the minute you start like taking 286 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: out different things like the child tax credit, you've got 287 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: to find revenue for that, and and then you've got 288 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: to have a tax bill that goes along with it 289 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: in order to get that revenue into the tax code. 290 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: So it's not reconciliation anymore, right, And so I think 291 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: that it's a much more difficult task one, frankly that 292 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: the Democrats should do because that's the proper way to 293 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: make laws, not through reconciliation. But they're not going to 294 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: give up reconciliation easily, right, I Mean, it's a one 295 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: stop shop to build their their re election playing for 296 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: if they haven't do it piecemeal, they'll they'll just be 297 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: finishing the bills by the time their ballots get cast. Yeah, Genie, 298 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: tell me about the meeting last night. What's your thoughts 299 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: were this morning? Was we got these very terse statements 300 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: from the Mansion and and Biden offices as we expected. Uh, 301 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: and a little bit more talk from Joe Manchin yesterday 302 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: as we discussed a round inflation round the FED meeting 303 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: this week. Does he wait until j Powell speaks tomorrow 304 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: before adding more to this? I think he does wait. 305 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: But you know, for me, I'm just looking at the 306 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: polls in West Virginia and you're looking at about six 307 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: out of ten, in some cases a little more than 308 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: six out of ten West Virginians saying that the build 309 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: bath better at this point would make inflation worse. And 310 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: to me that speaks volumes as to where Joe Mansion is. 311 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: By the way, we see not as quite as as 312 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: dire for Democrats, but a similar picture out of Arizona. 313 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: So I think, as you look at those polls, these 314 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: are things that obviously Joe Mansion takes very seriously. Christ 315 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: and Cinema take very seriously. Right they should, and he 316 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: has long made the case there's no reason to rush this. 317 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: We can wait, we can do it after. So I 318 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: think he waits until the meeting tomorrow. But I do 319 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: think time is running short for anything to happen before Christmas. 320 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: With the inflation numbers we just got last week. You 321 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: coupled that with this CBO report that Lindsey Graham says 322 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: that Joe Manson, you know, was was looking for and 323 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: asking for. I think the writing is on the wall 324 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: for Joe Mansion to press the gas pedal once again 325 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: and slow walk this in the next year. You mean 326 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: that's right? Yeah, yeah, he I think he breaks this 327 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: a while. And I think that sort of explains some 328 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: of the you know, friendly but terse statements last night. Yeah, 329 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: they did seem friendly to your point, Rick, nobody said 330 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: anything to change the story. I just wonder if if 331 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: Joe Manchin is afraid to be handcuffed ahead of the 332 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,959 Speaker 1: statement from tomorrow, if we get some hawker statement from 333 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: the FED, he's going to have to move along with that. Yeah, 334 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: that's right. I mean, look, I think that it's unlikely 335 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 1: you're gonna get good news from the FED on inflation tomorrow, 336 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: and uh, and he'll use that as some high cover. Look, 337 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: the guy has been pretty vocal. It's not like he 338 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: needs some high cover from the FED to do exactly 339 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: what he's been doing for months now. Um uh. And 340 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: I really think I mean one of the things that 341 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: I was told, which you know, it's kind of interesting 342 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: is that that after the initial onslaught of pressure on 343 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: Mansion and Cinema on this bill, people realize they actually 344 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: weren't gonna cave and and the pressure is kind of dissipated. 345 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: It's more like, Hey, I hope we can get you 346 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 1: on board. Um and and and I'm kind of sensing 347 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: that right that the Democrats have basically figured out that 348 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: they're not gonna muscle Joe Mansion to the finish line 349 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: on bill back better, so they better start thinking about 350 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: other ways of enticing him. And and and I think 351 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: just the fact that they are espousing some sensitivity on inflation. Uh, 352 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: you imagine where we were a month and a half 353 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: ago in the rhetoric on inflation where we are today. 354 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: It's it's a complete reversal. Nights and Day, Rick and 355 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: Jennie are here for the hour as we turned to 356 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: the other matter at hand on Capitol Hill, the House 357 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: voting to recommend former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows to 358 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: face criminal contempt charges if Democrats get their way. We'll 359 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: talk about it with Michael Zelden, former special counsel to 360 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: Robert Mueller, and we'll turn it to the panel right 361 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: here on Sound On. This is Bloomberg broadcasting live from 362 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: our nation's capital, Bloomberg to New York, Bloomberg eleven Frio 363 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one to San Francisco, 364 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg nine sixty to the country, serious x M General 365 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: one and around the globe the Bloomberg Business app. Then 366 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg seld On with 367 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. The US House voting on the fate of 368 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: Mark Meadows today. Democrats widely expected to pass a resolution 369 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: recommending the former White House Chief of Staff Trump chief 370 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: of Staff faced criminal contempt charges, following in the footsteps 371 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: of Steve Bannon. This after the Select Committee investigating January 372 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: six last night voted unanimously in favor. We'll talk about 373 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: it next with Michael Zelden, former federal prosecutor, former special 374 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: counsel to Robert Muller. It's in process right now. Will 375 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: let you know when the votes are in. As the 376 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: House considers this measure that would recommend Mark Meadows to 377 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: face criminal contempt charges, sent it over the d o 378 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: J as that is expected to take place following the 379 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: committee's nine to zero recommendation and a report justifying the 380 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: action House Rules Committee announcing that they would meet this morning. 381 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: They took care of the procedure and often running this 382 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: should be done by the time we are done. It's 383 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: interesting too, because Mark Meadows gave the committee a lot. 384 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: If you hear the text messages from the Fox anchors 385 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: from Donald Trump Jr. There's a lot in there. But 386 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: the committee wants a lot more, including direct testimony, and 387 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: so the chairman, Bennie Thompson, chaired the House Select Committee 388 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: on January six, said Mark Meadows blew it when he 389 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: decided not to talk and actually testify to the committee. 390 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 1: Here he is when the records raise questions as these 391 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: most certainly do you have helped to come in and 392 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: answer those questions, and when it's time for him to 393 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: follow the law come in and testify on those questions. 394 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: He changed his mind and told us to pound saying 395 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: he didn't even show up Pound Sand. He did publish 396 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: a book, though, and apparently would not even confirm some 397 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: of the details of the book in negotiating some sort 398 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: of arrangement. Here. With the panel committees done, the House 399 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: is voting and we're joined by Michael Zelden, former federal prosecutor, 400 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: former special counsel to Robert Mueller when he worked at 401 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: d o J. Michael, we're glad to have you today. 402 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: Does the House have a case here against the chief 403 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: of staff who's claiming executive privilege and actually did provide some, 404 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 1: if not all information. I think they do have a 405 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: case if this was a case about just executive privilege 406 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: related conversations. I think it's a difficult case for d 407 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: o J. But the d o J case in this 408 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: instance would not be based on good faith disagreements about 409 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: privilege assertions, but rather metals wholesale refusal to appear and 410 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: to provide any testimony, including testimony on nonprivileged information, information 411 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: that he himself turned over to the committee and designated 412 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: as non privilege. So I think he has a very 413 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: difficult time avoiding a contempt citation. So you could envision 414 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: a world in which Steve Bannon and Market Meadows are 415 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: both in jail roommates. No, it's it's not likely that 416 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: anyone goes to jail for these things. The type of 417 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: sentence usually is probation, but you know, it's it's theoretically possible. 418 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: I would expect, however, that if the Supreme Court rules 419 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: that the assertion of privilege by Trump is unavailing. Trump 420 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: loses that argument, then Meadows through his council are going 421 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: to figure out some sort of compromise with the House 422 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: that involves providing both privileged and non privileged testimony in 423 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: exchange for not um being sent to jail or having 424 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: the charges dropped. I d J brings them. Bannon is 425 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: a wild card and never am I able to predict 426 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: what you understand. Of course, Bannon has different he plays 427 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: by different rules and could benefit, you know, his brand 428 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: could benefit by by being seen, you know, thrown in 429 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: jail for this for a minute, if that ends up happening. Uh. 430 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: Mark Meadows is another matter, former White House chief of staff. 431 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: This is about president here for the executive a very 432 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: different fashion, is it not? Well, war Meadows, the chief 433 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: of Staff and Trump were the president and the House 434 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: were was seeking information from Meadows about what he told Trump. 435 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: I think the House about matters of policy. I think 436 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: the House loses. But this is former chief of Staff Meadows, 437 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: former President Trump talking about political matters, not policy matters. 438 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: In an environment where the current president waived the privilege 439 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: on behalf of the executive Branch. I think in those circumstances, 440 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: Meadows is in a very difficult situation. And if the 441 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: Supreme Court rules against Trump, he's got to figure out 442 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: a way to come in and clear himself of the contempt. Understood, 443 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: how if you're balancing matters, you're the wishes of the 444 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: committee or the potential offense here by Mark Meadows? How 445 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 1: important is his oral testimony versus having preserved or not 446 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: documents from that day and and providing them to the 447 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: committee in written form. Almost in all cases, witnesses who 448 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: can explain what you have in writing are advantageous witnesses. 449 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: So you look at a spreadsheet, or you look at 450 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: a text message, or you look at a email, and 451 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: it's subject to a couple of meanings. Let's say the 452 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: language is not completely clear from the written document. When 453 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: the witness comes in and you say, well, what did 454 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: you mean by this as the author of this email text, 455 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: um memo, and the witness says, this is what I meant. 456 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: That's very clarifying and very helpful because it undermines the 457 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: argument that no, that's not what he meant. Um. You 458 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: can read the document two ways. We know we have 459 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: the events on January six itself. That day, real time communications, 460 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: we're hearing Liz Cheney read, which was fascinating to the committee. 461 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: We also have just the overall effort uh to what 462 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 1: Democrats would say overturn an election. Here the the actual 463 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: man handling of officials, the phone calls, the litigation and 464 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: so forth that Mark Meadows was involved in and at 465 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: least aware of his call with Georgia state officials, for instance, 466 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: How do those play into this, uh, this case versus 467 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: the actual events of the six the actual insurrection. Well, 468 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: there are you know, different stages of the case, if 469 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: you will. What do they care more about? Well, I 470 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 1: think they care most about whether or not the president 471 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: of the United States or any of this. Those political 472 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: associates were part of an organized conspiracy to attack the 473 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: capital in order to stop the certification of the election. 474 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: I think that's the would be the most damaging as 475 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: opposed to building the backdrop of you know, the opposition 476 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: to the results. That's right. You you have a right 477 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: as a House or Senate member to contest slate of delegates. 478 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: That's your right and no one says otherwise. But um, 479 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: if you're part of a conspiracy to attack the building 480 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: to prevent certification. That's a very different matter, and that's 481 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,479 Speaker 1: what is at the heart of the investigation, so that 482 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: they can determine one whether or not anyone violated the laws, 483 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: and to what of the existing laws need to be 484 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 1: improved in order to make sure that this does not 485 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: happen again. Great expertise from Michael zeldan former federal prosecutor. 486 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: This on Sound On, we'll reassemble the panel next. This 487 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg you Sound on with 488 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Senor Mitch mcconnellvan so far 489 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: as to say today he was not in touch with 490 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: Mark Meadows on the sixth of January. Of course he 491 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: knew how the headlines would like to read after this 492 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: vote in the House tonight. Let's reassemble the panel for 493 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: more with Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chanzano and Rick Davis. 494 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: Here back on sound On, Rick, if Mark Meadows is charged, 495 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: if this goes all the way through d O J 496 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: the way Democrats want to see, cut a deal to 497 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: provide more information and avoid punishment, Yeah, for sure, I 498 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: mean like that would be rational, but so would actually 499 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: just talking to the House Committee that you just gave 500 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: thousands of emails too, and so what's with the measure? 501 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: I don't get the strategy. Yeah, I don't get it either. 502 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're going to claim executive privilege, don't 503 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: give many emails, don't give many correspondents, don't give him 504 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: any information because that way you're sort of pure on 505 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: the issue. But to have cooperated and then divulged all 506 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,959 Speaker 1: this information both official in his official capacity also his 507 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: private emails which he wasn't supposed to be using for work, Um, 508 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: he kind of undercuts the whole concept of executive privilege, 509 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: so you know. And by the way, you heap that 510 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: on top of a tell all book the Chief Chief 511 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: that we're just published a month ago, where he just looked, 512 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: you know, uh, throws out there all kinds of interneting 513 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: stories inside the Oval office. Uh. I mean, I don't 514 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: really get it. Uh. He's he's probably the most um 515 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: least confidential chief of staff in history, and yet he 516 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: wants to claim executive privilege. Yeah. What do you make 517 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: of the strategy here, Genie? Is it about selling books 518 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: or is it just about thumbing your nose? The Democrats 519 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: maybe something in between. I think it's a bit of both. 520 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: You know, it is curious that he you know, I 521 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: wonder who is advising him. You put a book out 522 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: in which you malign your former boss to a certain extent. 523 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: He did heap phrase on praise on him in some ways. 524 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: But he also revealed that President Trump had COVID that 525 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: apparently upset the president. You cooperate with this committee to 526 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: the extent you're turning over massive amounts of documents, and 527 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: then you pull back, and so it is going to 528 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: be you know, it's curious to understand what he's doing. 529 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: And let's not forget the history here. It has been 530 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: almost two hundred years since Congress held a former member 531 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: in contempt. That was Sam Houston from Tennessee because he 532 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: beat a former He beat a colleague with a with 533 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,719 Speaker 1: a wooden cane um. So you know, this is what 534 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: we're talking about when when we talk about what a 535 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: momentous you know, time, this really is to that they 536 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: are actually taking this step with a former member. So you're, yeah, boy, 537 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: it's it's incredible. You're released personal X. To Rick's point, 538 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: this was the personal cell phone with the president's son, 539 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: Donald Trump Jr. But you won't talk about details in 540 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: a book that people will be able to buy off 541 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: the shelf. Rick. What kind of a congressman was Mark Meadows? 542 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: The Tea Party, Republican, one of the founders of the 543 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: Freedom Caucus. Was he an effective member of the Republican Party? Yeah, 544 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: I think people felt like they could do business with him. 545 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: I mean, even though he was ideologically right a center, 546 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: I don't think most people thought he was unreasonable. He 547 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: was outspoken, but that's the job of being a House 548 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: member is to be outspoken. So I think that I 549 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: think that he would have blended into the woodwork of 550 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: the House, you know, very simply. And and wasn't a 551 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: star in any shape or form. And you know, I 552 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: think nobody was talking about him being a speaker someday. 553 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: But um, but look, I mean, you know, he he 554 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: he did rise up to be chief of staff in 555 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: the United States of America. That that used to be 556 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: a job that um people tried to maintain dignity around 557 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: and um And in the ten or eleven months that 558 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: he served in that job, we had some of the 559 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: greatest crisises domestically that we've ever had as a country. Uh. 560 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: And um, and now he's kind of making a mockery 561 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: of the system. So it's disappointing. I've I've served with 562 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: many great chiefs of staff uh and and I think 563 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: they took their job very seriously. And to be honest 564 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: with you, I'm kind of curious how history is going 565 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: to treat Mark Meadows. Yeah. Pretty incredible to consider to 566 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: be the first White House Chief of staff to face 567 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: criminal charges since H. R. Haldeman. Uh. But then again, 568 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: he could turn around, as we're discussing already, Genie and 569 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: and figure out a way to provide more information once 570 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: charges are filed here, So things might not end the 571 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: same way. But I can only assume that even with 572 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: in Trump universe, maybe he goes on to run a 573 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: media company or something, but his political career is over, 574 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: That's right. And this has been Another aspect of this 575 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: which is a bit strange, is that it would have 576 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: been possible for him and his attorney to give the 577 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: appearance of cooperating and limit some of what they said. 578 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: And yet here he turns over all this material and 579 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: then pulls back and gets himself in this position of 580 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: having these charges of contempt filed against him, and to 581 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,479 Speaker 1: your earlier point Mitch McConnell's statement on this when he 582 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: says it will be interesting to reveal all the participants 583 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: who were involved, knowing he's been, you know, close to 584 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: Liz Cheney and others and where he stands visa VI 585 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, that was a very interesting sort of in 586 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,239 Speaker 1: the last twenty four hours revelation as well, what are 587 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: you hearing, Rick, that that we might learn or what 588 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: that we we might be afraid to learn? Will will 589 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: there be a text messages or phone calls that Meadows 590 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: is sitting on here or I guess others who could 591 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: be testifying directly with members of Congress. We've heard about 592 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: this line from Meadows that the National Guard will be 593 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: there to pret hecht pro Trump protesters. How concerned are 594 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: you by what we might hear? Oh, I'll be fascinated, 595 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: Not so concerned. I mean, what I'm concerned about is 596 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: what actually happened already would been kind of nice to 597 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: know how did it happen? Um uh. And I think 598 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: that part of what we saw today with Liz Cheney 599 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: actually reading out some of these emails from Meadows, I mean, oh, 600 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: you don't want to cooperate with us, but so let's 601 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: go ahead and make public some of the things you've 602 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: already given us. Um. And I think that that that 603 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: there's a there's a deep well there. They've not only 604 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: got his emails, but they've got emails from lots of 605 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: the White House staff, more more than we know, and 606 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: in many we wouldn't be able to pick out of 607 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: a lineup right now, but they've got that information. And 608 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: and they've also UM got a lot of leads that 609 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: indicate members of Congress, in the case of one story 610 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: circulating right now related to Meadows emails a senator who 611 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: might have been involved in uh, discussions around trying to 612 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: stop the count. So uh, this this is a story 613 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: that will play out all through the first quarter next year. 614 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see how long the committee takes 615 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: to make a report public. UM. My guess is it 616 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: will be influenced, but not directed by the mid term 617 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,240 Speaker 1: election cycle. And uh, and I think the American public 618 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: deserves to know what was going on. Frankly, it was 619 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: fascinating to me that Donald Trump Jr. Was a gas 620 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: that his father wasn't doing more to stop, uh, the 621 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: attack on the Capitol, one that arguably he helped flement 622 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: at the rally earlier that day. So, uh, it's a 623 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: fascinating uh storyline, and stay tuned, America, because you may 624 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,919 Speaker 1: find a few things out that you otherwise wouldn't have known. 625 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: Jennie talked to us more about the politics behind all 626 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: of this. We're talking about the facts and what we're 627 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: trying to learn about the history of January six here. 628 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 1: But is it not in democrats favor to drag this 629 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: thing out as far as they can into a mid 630 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: term election year. I do think, you know, the Democrats sincerely, 631 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: and the Republicans on the committee as well, including Adam 632 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 1: Kissinger and and and um and of course Liz Cheney, 633 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: They and and many other people want to get to 634 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: the bottom of what happened. I mean, I you know, 635 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: we all lived through we watched it live on Bloomberg, 636 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: and you know, there was an attack on our capitol. 637 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: You had the threats against the life of the sitting 638 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: Vice president of the United States, and by all you 639 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: know accounts the attempt to overthrow a democratic election. So 640 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, yes, there are certainly politics involved in anything 641 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: Congress does, but this is serious and so it is 642 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: critical that the American public at the real story of 643 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 1: who was involved and what happened. I think one of 644 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: my biggest questions is are we ever going to get 645 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: that If Republicans take the House next year in the 646 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: mid terms, you know, by all accounts, they would shut 647 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: this down immediately. Can the committee get their report out? 648 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: To Rick's point before that happens, I think is the 649 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: big question here. I don't want to undermine anything that 650 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,720 Speaker 1: you're saying about that all of that is absolutely true, 651 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: But why not exactly even more pain and let this 652 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: thing drag out and have, you know, have a fall 653 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: out of some sort in the election year that that 654 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: apparently is you know, leaning against Democrats right now. Well, 655 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: you know, I think that they will try to drag 656 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: it out. I mean, I'm not saying drag it out. 657 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: I think they will try to get to the bottom 658 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: of it. But I also think that they need to 659 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: be cognizant that people do see this as political. So 660 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: I think when they can get the full story out, 661 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: they should put that out there for all of us 662 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: to see exactly what happened. There is you know, every day, 663 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: including in the last couple hours, we learn more and 664 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: more information about what occurred at our capital. Less than 665 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: a year ago. What are the political implications than Rick 666 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: for the midterms? Does this come down to individuals here? 667 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: Do people make the connection between what they saw in 668 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: January six and their own congressman? You know how that 669 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 1: tends to pull differently when you're when you're asking about 670 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: broad political themes versus your own representative. Well, I think 671 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: you know, just take Liz Cheney is a great example, Joe. 672 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: I mean, like, here's a woman who's been undersieged by 673 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,800 Speaker 1: her own party. Um, you know, uh, the Donald Trump 674 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: juniors of the world have been eviscerating her with her 675 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: own public. She's you know, Donald Trump is recruited a 676 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: a member of her own party and an old friend 677 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: run against her. And she can stand up today and 678 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: read these emails from people who were critical of her 679 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: for the same thing they are now espousing as concerned 680 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: they had the same day on January six. So, um, 681 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: the comfort that must give her and the weapon that 682 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: she can you know, use back at her home state 683 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: to run for re election saying, hey, even the president's 684 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: son was a gas at the conduct of the president, 685 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,240 Speaker 1: and that's that is a nuclear weapon waiting to get launched. 686 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,399 Speaker 1: Davis goes for the Dukes to thank you as ever. 687 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: Rick and Jeannie stay with us. We'll let you know 688 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: in the news throughout the evening and the night what 689 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: happened in the U. S. House. The best panel in 690 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: the business here on sound On. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. 691 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 1: I'll meet you back here tomorrow with a lot more 692 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: to follow. We'll let you know how this panned out. 693 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg