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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Daybreak Aisia podcast. I'm Doug Krisner. You can join Brian

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Speaker 1: Curtis and myself for the stories, making news and moving

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Speaker 1: markets in the APAC region. You can subscribe to the

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Speaker 1: show anywhere you get your podcast and always on Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 2: Joining us now is Wendy Kutler, vice president at the

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Speaker 2: Asia Society Policy Institute and a former acting Deputy US

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Speaker 2: Trade Representative. MS Keller. Thank you very much for joining us. So,

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Speaker 2: Jannet Yellen's trip really didn't produce any specific agreements to

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Speaker 2: lower tensions on trade and investment, but it does seem

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Speaker 2: the mood is a little better. Is that just smoking

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Speaker 2: mirrors or is it real?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 4: I think that's a correct assessment. There's clearly more engagement

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Speaker 4: China at senior levels but also at the staff levels

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Speaker 4: at the Treasury Department and other economic agencies. So that's positive.

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Speaker 4: But as your other story indicated, there are serious concerns

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Speaker 4: on the horizon, particularly the over capacity in China's manufacturing industries,

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Speaker 4: which are grave concern not only to the US, but

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Speaker 4: to other countries including Europe, South Africa, Brazil and others

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Speaker 4: around the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, the EU is moving closer. It would seem

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Speaker 1: to imposing additional tariffs on Chinese evs. I don't know

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Speaker 1: the way you can call it dumping necessarily, that used

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Speaker 1: to be the term we applied in the old days

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Speaker 1: when it came to these types of trade tensions. But

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Speaker 1: I'm curious as to whether or not you think Beijing

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Speaker 1: is marking a little time here until the dust settles

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Speaker 1: with respect to the presidential election. What do you think?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think that is a concern because Secretary Yellen

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Speaker 4: announced kind of a new intensive engagements on balanced economy

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Speaker 4: looking at the supply and demand factors, and given past

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Speaker 4: experience with China, this could serve as an excuse by

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Speaker 4: China just to delay, delay, delay, keep talking, don't take

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Speaker 4: any actions. So I hope when she returns and reports

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Speaker 4: on progress made and what she's heard in Beijing to

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Speaker 4: the President that serious consideration will be taken in terms

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Speaker 4: of how the US should respond to potential export surges

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Speaker 4: by China in products like electric vehicles and batteries and

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Speaker 4: clean energy.

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Speaker 2: Well, the EV sector is really an interesting playing field

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Speaker 2: to look at because China has actually innovated there and

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Speaker 2: it has worked very hard to get a lead in

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Speaker 2: the industry. But yes, it is selling vehicles very cheaply

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Speaker 2: in particularly in Europe, and it is helped by subsidies

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Speaker 2: in government aid. There's not really much doubt. I suppose

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Speaker 2: in some ways both sides are right and both sides

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Speaker 2: are wrong, and it depends on how you actually see

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Speaker 2: globalization as to how you figure out who's right here.

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Speaker 4: Well, I look at it more like fair trade and

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Speaker 4: unfair trade. And unfair trade to me is based on subsidies,

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Speaker 4: financial assistance, low cost loans, incentives for battery procurement from

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Speaker 4: local companies. All of this has been used by China

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Speaker 4: to propel their electric vehicle sector. So no doubt they're

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Speaker 4: competitive now, but their competitiveness is based on a lot

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Speaker 4: of government money spent over a series of years to

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Speaker 4: propel them on the global stage.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because after Yellen made her remarks later in

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Speaker 1: the day, we heard from the Vice Finance Minister Leol Minh.

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Speaker 1: He was saying that China is going to rely on

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Speaker 1: market forces to remove any excess in terms of capacity. Now,

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Speaker 1: whether that suggests that Beijing is willing to stomach stomach

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Speaker 1: what could be bankruptcy and some kind of consolidation as

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Speaker 1: a remedy to this situation. Do you think that's likely?

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Speaker 1: Or is Beijing going to dig in a little bit,

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Speaker 1: given everything that it's dealing with in terms of economic

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Speaker 1: sluggishness right now, and try to prop up companies for

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Speaker 1: as long as it can.

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Speaker 4: Well, they have an important decision to make. I think

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Speaker 4: they heard Secretary Yellen's message very clearly, and so now

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Speaker 4: they need to decide whether they continue and just export

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Speaker 4: NonStop or take a pause and implement some policies not

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Speaker 4: only to restrain domestic production but also to promote domestic demand.

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Speaker 4: And the domestic demand part of the equation is just

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Speaker 4: an area and not really addressed by their economic policies.

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Speaker 2: Ms Keller. We on purpose ran those two stories TSMC

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Speaker 2: getting eleven point six billion dollars in grants and loans

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Speaker 2: from the United States right next to the ev story.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you're on the Chinese side and you

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Speaker 2: see that, I mean, isn't that industrial policy, isn't that subsidy?

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Speaker 4: Well it is, but our policies are in response to

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Speaker 4: China's policies, and let's keep in mind, five to ten

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Speaker 4: to twenty billion dollars is nowhere in the ballpark of

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Speaker 4: the hundreds of billions of dollars that China has put

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Speaker 4: into this industry to promote it and to make it

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Speaker 4: a global competitor.

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Speaker 1: I want to change gears because Prime Minister of fum

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Speaker 1: Yo Kishida is going to be in the US first

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Speaker 1: date to visit this week, and obviously one topic is

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Speaker 1: going to be Nippon Steele's attempt to buy US Deal.

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Speaker 1: Kishida will be addressing a joint session of Congress on Thursday,

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Speaker 1: and the following day US Deal shareholders are set to

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Speaker 1: vote on this fourteen billion dollar takeover. Do you think

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Speaker 1: it's right for the US to object to this based

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Speaker 1: on grounds of Well, I don't know whether national security

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Speaker 1: even enters into it. Certainly it feels a little protectionistic,

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Speaker 1: does it not.

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Speaker 4: Well, first, I don't think this issue is going to

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Speaker 4: come up during the summit. I think that given all

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Speaker 4: of the issues that the US and Japan are cooperating on,

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Speaker 4: the Nipon steel issue is really minor in the larger landscape.

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Speaker 2: Well, I want to ask you a question. This kind

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Speaker 2: of laced with you know, all kinds of hyperbole. I

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Speaker 2: suppose the US China tussle at the moment is like

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Speaker 2: playing marbles compared to what the AI tussle might be

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Speaker 2: is sort of compared to like Russian roulette.

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Speaker 1: Is that true?

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Speaker 2: I mean, are we going into a very very difficult environment.

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Speaker 4: Look, environment has been difficult for a long time, and

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Speaker 4: we shouldn't fool ourselves that just with these engagement and

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Speaker 4: trips by cabinet officers and senior leadership between the two

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Speaker 4: countries that the tensions are going to go away. All

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Speaker 4: that said, we need to remain engaged with China, and

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Speaker 4: so I think Secretary Yellen's trip was very important, not

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Speaker 4: only to send important messages and convey concerns to China,

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Speaker 4: but also define areas where we can cooperate. And with

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Speaker 4: respect to artificial intelligence, I believe that there are aspects

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Speaker 4: of AI where not only we should cooperate, but we

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Speaker 4: need to cooperate to mitigate the potential risks of AI.

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Speaker 1: MIS and Mss Cutler very quickly in terms of the TikTok,

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Speaker 1: whether or not we get a bill here through Congress

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Speaker 1: that would force di vestiture away from the Chinese parent

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Speaker 1: bike dance. What's your view on that.

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Speaker 4: My view is that this is a very complicated issue,

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Speaker 4: but I think the US is on solid ground to

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Speaker 4: want to restrict the activities of TikTok, you know, if

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Speaker 4: not just for reciprocal reasons. If you look at the

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Speaker 4: ability of our comparable companies to operate in China, there's

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Speaker 4: no opportunity for them to operate. So I think it's

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Speaker 4: very hypocritical for China to complain about what we're doing

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Speaker 4: on TikTok when they don't let our big tech companies

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Speaker 4: operate in their countries.

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Speaker 2: Many thanks, Wendy Cutler, or vice president at the Asia

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Speaker 2: Society Policy Institute. With us, we'll please to say that

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Speaker 2: Joshua Crab, head of Asia Pacific Equities at Robiko, is

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Speaker 2: with us here, live in our studios, so Joshua, pretty

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Speaker 2: interesting time here. We do have the US inflation data

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Speaker 2: this week that might color trading a little bit and

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Speaker 2: might also color whether we get two or three cuts

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Speaker 2: this year, and some are even saying, with US economy

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Speaker 2: this strong, we may not get any rate cuts. First,

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Speaker 2: before we get to some individual picks and regions and

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Speaker 2: sectors and such, how do you feel generally about risk assets.

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Speaker 5: At the moment.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it depends on which risk assets we're

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Speaker 3: talking about. I think if we, you know, look at

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Speaker 3: the US market, for example, it's a very narrow market

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Speaker 3: led by small number of stocks we all know, very

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Speaker 3: very high valuations and very very high expectations.

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Speaker 5: That's at one end of the spectrum.

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Speaker 3: Bring it back to Asia, I think you have you know,

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Speaker 3: a number of markets here that have quite good long

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Speaker 3: term or medium term sort of growth prospects in Vietnam,

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Speaker 3: in Indonesia, in the Philippines, et cetera. And then you

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Speaker 3: have places like China which maybe don't have as strong

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Speaker 3: a long term growth but have very very cheap valuations.

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Speaker 3: So I think risk assets are actually quite dispersed at

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Speaker 3: the moment.

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Speaker 1: When you look at China. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: we're going to be paying very close attention to this

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Speaker 1: week is the PPI CPI data midweek is in a

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Speaker 1: period of stagnant deflation to the degree that we should

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Speaker 1: really be worried about the economy and putting more money

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Speaker 1: to work in markets, whether it's the real estate market

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Speaker 1: or the equity market.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I mean, I think I think that sort

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Speaker 3: of it depends with you on look backward or forward.

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Speaker 3: I think looking backwards, that's absolutely the case. Clearly we've

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Speaker 3: seen we've seen that environment. But it's always a question

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Speaker 3: of where we're you know, looking forward, what that sort

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Speaker 3: of changes. So we have very very low expectations on growth,

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Speaker 3: we have very low expectations on things like inflation, et

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Speaker 3: cetera at this point in time. But if we look forward,

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, and this is interesting to us.

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Speaker 3: It's like, you know, for example, you know, companies had

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Speaker 3: been missing quite a lot of being missing earnings, but

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Speaker 3: the expectations can get so low that even in a

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Speaker 3: weak environment, they start to beat. And you already have

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Speaker 3: sort of quite low valuations that sort of sit with that.

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Speaker 5: So I guess from my perspective.

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Speaker 3: The question is here is okay, so maybe maybe we

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Speaker 3: don't have a great growth environment. A lot of those

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Speaker 3: negatives are now in the price, So how do we

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Speaker 3: make money in that market? And you know, I think

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Speaker 3: this is where it's interesting mireseing some some of the

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Speaker 3: is now starting to beat. Now they're not beating because

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Speaker 3: things are wonderful. They're beating because the expectations have got

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Speaker 3: that low. But also the valuations are low. You're seeing

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Speaker 3: increase things like buybacks, diffidends, privatizations, and that to us

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Speaker 3: is sort of when you start to see a bottomy

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Speaker 3: out of a market. Now for US, that really is

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Speaker 3: stock specific for now, so you really need to dive

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Speaker 3: into the stock.

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Speaker 2: Level, Joshua, despite what you said at the top, but

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Speaker 2: we have actually seen quite a broadening out in the

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Speaker 2: US market, and you know, we only have to debate

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Speaker 2: that now. But if you look at Asia markets like

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Speaker 2: Korea or Japan, are we seeing the same sort of

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Speaker 2: activity with a broadening or has it really just solidly

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Speaker 2: been that way in Asia.

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Speaker 3: It's a little bit different depending on the market. I

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Speaker 3: think Japan and Career are interesting ones to sort of

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Speaker 3: use as a showcase because I think they've been a

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Speaker 3: bit different. There's a different driver of that, and in

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Speaker 3: Japan that's been going on for some time around you know, restructuring, reorganization,

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Speaker 3: more shareholder friendly policies, and we've started to see that eken.

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Speaker 5: A little bit in Korea as well.

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Speaker 3: So if we bring that back to Japan, I think

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Speaker 3: you have had a number of stocks which are sort

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Speaker 3: of caught up in that sort of AI sort of

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Speaker 3: aura that have done very, very well, you've had a

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Speaker 3: number of the very large cap companies which is often

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Speaker 3: correlated with that, that have done very well as well. But

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Speaker 3: outside of that, over a sort of longer period, we've seen,

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Speaker 3: you know, some of the things like the financials do well.

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Speaker 3: We've seen the industrials, and I think that's been the

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Speaker 3: standout sector because they're the ones where we are seeing

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Speaker 3: those unwine year cross shareholdings, that rationalization of business, and

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Speaker 3: the increase in things like buybacks.

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Speaker 1: So I hear what you're saying when you're talking about

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Speaker 1: having to really drill down into specific names. But if

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Speaker 1: we can talk about industry groups. You just mentioned the

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Speaker 1: financials there maybe some of the industrial names. What are

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Speaker 1: the areas that you want to avoid in China industries specifically,

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Speaker 1: sorry in.

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Speaker 5: China or Japan in China, Okay.

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Speaker 3: So the way I would sort of from an industry perspective,

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Speaker 3: I think that you know, things like the export market,

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Speaker 3: for example, has been and think things like export and

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Speaker 3: real estate has been a big driver of the economy

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Speaker 3: for decades. Right, And if we sort of look forward

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Speaker 3: about what needs to happen in China, as we need

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Speaker 3: to see more focus on the consumer, right, we need

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Speaker 3: to see more focus on sort of what's happening internally.

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Speaker 3: We need to see more focus on moving to higher

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Speaker 3: value add in the manufacturing sector.

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Speaker 5: So that's that for US is where you need to look.

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Speaker 3: Now you have to be careful because you know the

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Speaker 3: rest of the market knows this as well. So some

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Speaker 3: of these stocks are trading at two higher premiums relative.

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Speaker 3: But we think that is the area where what needs

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Speaker 3: to change in China for it to go back onto

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Speaker 3: a better growth trajectory than what we've seen.

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Speaker 2: Well, it needs to get you know, the discount sort

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Speaker 2: of set aside by investors. For one thing, you have

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Speaker 2: a discount on South Korea, which you've had long standing

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Speaker 2: in place, and China now as well. For instance, this year,

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Speaker 2: you know some of the market we talked about the

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Speaker 2: Nike and also the Taiaks in Taiwan up eight and

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Speaker 2: a half to nine to ten percent year to date,

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Speaker 2: similar to what we've seen from the S and P

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Speaker 2: five hundred. The cost be actually lower, the cost be

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Speaker 2: down one point seven percent US dollar terms. So is

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Speaker 2: Korea one that can can be different for the rest

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Speaker 2: of this year?

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Speaker 5: I think it can.

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Speaker 3: And this is where things like the election are really

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Speaker 3: going to matter. You know, you talked about, you know,

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Speaker 3: the career discount, and there are a number of reasons

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Speaker 3: for that, but one of the ones that I think

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Speaker 3: is most relevant and can have the biggest impact in

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Speaker 3: the short term is shareholder policies, right, And it's a

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Speaker 3: bit like Japan. You know, we haven't seen a lot

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Speaker 3: of dividends, you don't see a lot of buyerbacks, you

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Speaker 3: don't see a lot of these type of activities. But

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Speaker 3: a bit like Japan, there is a bit of a

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Speaker 3: mindset change happening. We've talked about this for decad for

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Speaker 3: the best part of a decade, but I think there

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Speaker 3: are a number of you know, impacts happening at the

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Speaker 3: same time here. Right, you've got the pension schemes locally

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Speaker 3: not putting money and needing to take money out. Now

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Speaker 3: you've got a stock exchange which is quite focused on

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Speaker 3: bringing up the valuations of these companies. And then I

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Speaker 3: think you've also got a you know, sort of a

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Speaker 3: national element. Like the Japanese have done this, we can

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Speaker 3: do this as well. So I think there are a

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Speaker 3: number of these influencers coming at the same time. So

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Speaker 3: if the election stays, if the current party stays in power.

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Speaker 3: This continues to be a push. I think then you

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Speaker 3: find the management teams that actually are really going to

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Speaker 3: affect change. And yes, I think there can be some

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Speaker 3: great opportunities to make money, but probably more alpha than

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Speaker 3: I would say look at the individual market, because some

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Speaker 3: companies won't.

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Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, some good tips there, Joshua, thanks very

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Speaker 2: much for coming into our studios with us live here,

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Speaker 2: Joshua crabhead of Asia Pacific Equities at Robiko, lad Savov,

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Tech editor with us in our studios here in

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Speaker 2: Hong Kong. It's nice to have you back in here.

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Speaker 2: So this is a big deal. You got three plants

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Speaker 2: by TSMC, and we just mentioned that whopping sixty five

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Speaker 2: billion dollars in total investments, the US helping out with

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Speaker 2: some subsidies I suppose. And this is also a very

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Speaker 2: high tech plant that we're talking about here, this third

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Speaker 2: fabrication site, because they will have next generation two nanometer

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Speaker 2: process technology. When is that likely to come to fruition.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's an interesting question, and one way to look

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Speaker 6: at it is also to the specific challenges that TSMC

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Speaker 6: has in building its chip making facilities in the US.

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Speaker 6: It isn't Taiwan, which is where TSMC has built up

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Speaker 6: its lead as the world's leading ship maker. It is

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Speaker 6: in Japan where TSMC just inaugurated its new plant ahead

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Speaker 6: of time. Because Japanese construction is largely uncontested around the world.

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Speaker 6: The Japanese very proud of how quickly they build their

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Speaker 6: fab TSMC, for its part, its first facility has been delayed,

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Speaker 6: has been subject to delays. Part of it is TSMC

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Speaker 6: has said this, it's the lack of qualified labor. It's

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Speaker 6: also running to issues with labor unions. In the United States.

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Speaker 6: It isn't as smooth sailing as it has been in

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Speaker 6: Taiwan and Japan, So some of this is I mean,

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Speaker 6: it's a very optimistic, very positive outlook at the moment,

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Speaker 6: with both the nation and the company putting their best

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Speaker 6: foot forward, putting a lot of money into it. But

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Speaker 6: it is going to depend on the smooth operation of

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Speaker 6: construction and development as we go along.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, And I think it's a big concerned that

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Speaker 1: there is a delay here in a presidential election year

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Speaker 1: where the administration would probably like to see a little

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Speaker 1: bit more in the way of progress. Is there anything

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Speaker 1: that you think the administration can do to improve the

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Speaker 1: timeline here or is this outside the control of the

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Speaker 1: White House.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think the measures of the White House has

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Speaker 6: taken so far significant more than significance. I mean, when

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Speaker 6: you compare it to the rest of the world. I

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Speaker 6: mentioned Japan, they're putting in much smaller sums of money.

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Speaker 6: When you look at the US, they're kind of uncontested

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Speaker 6: in the amount of money that they can in both

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Speaker 6: in grants and in loans to these companies. It's six

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Speaker 6: point seven billion dollars in grants to TSMC. That's part

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Speaker 6: of what's enticed TSMC to step up into its investments.

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Speaker 6: Until yesterday, officially TSMC had only planned two plants. Now

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Speaker 6: that they made the announcements, it's free plans. It's more

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Speaker 6: than sixty five billion dollars. Previously it was more than

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Speaker 6: forty billion dollars. So what the US is doing is

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Speaker 6: it's putting in the investment directly, it's leveraging it to

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Speaker 6: get your investment from the likes of TSMC and Edwin,

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Speaker 6: who you cited earlier. He mentioned Samson is in the running.

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Speaker 6: Samson also stepped off his investment because the way that

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Speaker 6: the US has structured its subsidies and support. Is the

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Speaker 6: more you put in, the more you will get out

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Speaker 6: of us. And moreover, it's worth saying they have various

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Speaker 6: benchmarks that they're going to have as TSMC goes through

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Speaker 6: with the development. They're not just going to unload the

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Speaker 6: money in TSMC's theoretical bank account and leave them to it,

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Speaker 6: which I think shows also a bit of foresight and

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Speaker 6: a bit of some of the lessons learned maybe from

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Speaker 6: the experience with Fox Cone in Wisconsin previously.

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Speaker 2: And Heine's also looking to get some funding. I'm curious, though,

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Speaker 2: what you think this little bit of a black eye

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Speaker 2: that the US doesn't have the same quality tech workers.

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Speaker 2: It may just be the numbers because the US has

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Speaker 2: so many demands on its well educated engineers and tech workers.

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Speaker 2: But is this something that will have to change for

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Speaker 2: this third fabrication site to actually, you know, make any progress.

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Speaker 1: Well, I would imagine what are.

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Speaker 2: We seeing on the US side to you know, to

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Speaker 2: increase the number of these types of workers to be available.

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Speaker 6: I would imagine TSMC would very much welcome that. Let's

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Speaker 6: put it in those terms. But I should also mention

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Speaker 6: there is one company I don't want to mention the

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Speaker 6: company necessarily, but they do their production in China and

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Speaker 6: then they do specific production for military purposes for the

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Speaker 6: US in Finland. And what it told me is that

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Speaker 6: the cost of labor is two to three times. It

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Speaker 6: makes the product two to three times more expensive to

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Speaker 6: produce the same product that they do in China in Finland.

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Speaker 6: It's just simply the case that for the qualification and

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Speaker 6: the cost, Asia is uncontested as far as labor force goes.

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Speaker 6: So the US is dealing with an issue that most

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Speaker 6: of Europe is dealing with. Likewise, so I am sure that.

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Speaker 6: I mean, there are politicians, there are members of the

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Speaker 6: administration who are pushing to improve things like immigration measures

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Speaker 6: to encourage more people to come over. But likewise, this

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Speaker 6: is an international competition. And Japan, again I keep mentioning it,

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Speaker 6: it has its own initiatives to bring its own semiconductor

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Speaker 6: engineers back from places like the US so that they

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Speaker 6: can support Japan's own chip making endeavors.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting that you make that point because if you

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Speaker 1: look at the history of the semiconductor industry, I mean,

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Speaker 1: these products were developed in the United States. Hong Kong

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Speaker 1: at one point was a major place of assembly Japan

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Speaker 1: as well, and then it migrated obviously to Taiwan. And

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Speaker 1: now we're talking about China trying to create greater runway

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Speaker 1: for advanced chips. But in terms of the companies that

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Speaker 1: are going to benefit downstream, and I'm thinking about ASML

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Speaker 1: in particular. This company undoubtedly, no matter where you slice it,

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Speaker 1: just by virtue of the fact that they own so

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Speaker 1: much of the high end manufacturing technology, they will also

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Speaker 1: be a big beneficiary in this build up, will they not?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 6: Absolutely? And the fun part for ASMOS don't have to

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Speaker 6: do anything. The entire thing is just falling into their

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Speaker 6: lab because likely, as you say, the extreme ultra violet

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Speaker 6: machines which are the key to doing the most advanced

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Speaker 6: of making today until somebody invents an alternative, and that's

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Speaker 6: nowhere on the horizon. ASMO is the only provider of those.

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Speaker 6: So the more that the likes of Japan, the US,

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Speaker 6: China too, but ASMO can't explot those to China. The

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Speaker 6: more that nations INDIAU throw into that conversation as well.

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Speaker 6: The more that nations, the more that companies like TSMC

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Speaker 6: and Samsung or is in hot competition with each other,

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Speaker 6: the more that they invest. The more that they put in,

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Speaker 6: the more the likes of ASML benefit. And again I

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Speaker 6: keep coming back to Japan, but it's worth mentioning there

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Speaker 6: are so many companies that are rising triple. I mean,

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Speaker 6: we covered one just recently, Towa Corp. In Japan, which

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Speaker 6: quintuple the share price simply because it provides compound compound

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Speaker 6: moding that Heiniz and Samsung use in their advanced AI memory.

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Speaker 2: Somehow, in Japan, they're they're finding workers that you know,

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Speaker 2: don't demand too much. So it is some of this

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Speaker 2: nearly twelve billion dollars of funding in these round of

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Speaker 2: loans and grants to TSMC, will some of that actually

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Speaker 2: be there to support hiring, to pay better salaries to

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Speaker 2: people in order to attract them.

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Speaker 6: That's a good question that we should ask TSMC, I

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Speaker 6: would say, and let's not say that anybody's asking too much.

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Speaker 6: It may very well be, I mean, given the different

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Speaker 6: costs of living in various places, it may be very

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Speaker 6: reasonable prices that people are looking for. And again we're

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Speaker 6: not just looking for unqualified labor. A lot of this

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Speaker 6: is advanced engineering and advanced skill. And one of the secrets,

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Speaker 6: so to speak of TSMC's leadership is the fact that

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Speaker 6: it has people with decades and decades of experience of

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Speaker 6: running these chip making factories.

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Speaker 1: No doubt about that. And I think Intel, which will

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Speaker 1: obviously also participate in these grants from the US Chips Act,

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Speaker 1: has said that it will, as a part of its investment,

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Speaker 1: increase training so that they are looking at kind of

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Speaker 1: carving out their own workforce and maybe creating a fast track.

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Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's clearly not a college degree,

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Speaker 1: but it's did the type of technical degree that would

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Speaker 1: be required for anyone who's working in one of these fabs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Doug, we got an extra chair here

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Speaker 2: in our studios for Vlad, and I think he has

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Speaker 2: designs on it. Do you think Lad you're gonna hang

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00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 2: out with us for a while?

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00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 6: Always ready for him? Brian, Yeah, Yeah.

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00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 2: He talks to me when we're getting coffee, you know, like, hey,

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Speaker 2: let's do something on the radio.

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Speaker 1: There you go, I said.

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Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia podcast, bringing to the

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00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 2: stories making news and moving markets in the Asia Pacific.

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00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 2: Visit the Bloomberg Podcast channel on YouTube to get more

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00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 2: episodes of this and other shows from Bloomberg subscribe to

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00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 2: the podcast on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen,

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00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 2: and always on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Terminal, and the

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00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business app.