1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Guess what mango? What's that? Well, now you're a Wallace 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: and Grammt fan, right, definitely, I love Wallas and Gramut. 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Well I've got a fact. You may not know about them, 4 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: but did you know they actually helped save a cheese No, 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: how's that. It was in the early nineties and these 6 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 1: cheesemakers behind Wensleydale Cheeses, they were struggling and according to 7 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: the Yorkshire Post, things were so bad at the creamery 8 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: that the company was actually considering closing up shop. And 9 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: then this little phenomenon called Wallace and Grommt came along. 10 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: So for you listeners who don't know, and the animations 11 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: the crackpot inventor Wallace loves cheese and especially Wensleydale, and 12 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: the animators chose it because it sounds charming and British 13 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: and yeah, I've kind of made for a good punch line. 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: But it was just a coincidence. Actually, they were unaware 15 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: of the hardships the Little Cheese company was going through, 16 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: but the short films actually caused sales to jump by 17 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: twenty three and before long this little forgotten cheese was 18 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: getting imported in big numbers to the US, Canada and 19 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: Mango France and then just one of the stories we're 20 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: gonna tell you today about cheese. So let's dive in 21 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: a their podcast. Listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 23 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: friend Man Guess and on the other side of the 24 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: soundproof glass tucking into the most lavish cheese straight imaginable, 25 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: that is our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. Now, for 26 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: today's show, we're giving cheese it's due by checking out 27 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: the science and history behind everyone's favorite golden curds. We're 28 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: gonna explore some fun origins, peek into what makes rotten 29 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: milk so delicious, and along the way, we'll also take 30 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: a look at the state of American cheese today. Yeah, 31 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: but before we get started, we wanted to give a 32 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: quick shout out to our researcher Gabe, who was under 33 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: the weather this week, but it did an amazing job 34 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 1: working through it to get us some facts and stories 35 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: for today's episode. So gave your real hero and a 36 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: traditional get well creative Stinky cheeses has headed your way. Man, Okabe, 37 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: you are such a hero. But anyway, all right, well 38 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 1: mego We've got a whole wide world of cheese is 39 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: to dive into. So so where do you want to start? Well, 40 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: I know we were talking before the show about how 41 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: cheese is this universally beloved food, Like kids go crazy 42 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: for mac and cheese. It's uh. I think it's pizza 43 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: rat's favorite type of pizza, and sophisticated adults eat it 44 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: for a course instead of dessert. But actually, speaking of 45 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: mac and cheese, you know, one of the things I 46 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 1: read this week was that Kraft mac and cheese is 47 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: actually more popular in Canada than anywhere else in the world. 48 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: Did you know this? So Food Republic had this article 49 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: about it and they cite that of the seven million 50 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: boxes sold around the globe every week, Canadians consume one 51 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: point seven million of those. That's incredible. Yeah, Canada eats 52 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: twice as much mac and cheese as we do here 53 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: in the States, and most people referred to it as 54 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: Kraft Dinners or just k D for short. I'm serious, 55 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: Kevin Durant isn't the default k D and Canada Craft 56 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: Dinners are. That's how big it is. You know, it's 57 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: even referred to as the national dish of Canada and 58 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: I had no idea about this before we were doing 59 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: our research this week. That's pretty funny. So I always 60 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: think of craft is such an American thing, and I 61 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: actually wanted to talk about craft cheese in a bit, 62 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: but before we do, did you realize that cheese is 63 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: actually the most shoplifted item in the entire world? You know, 64 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: I feel like it heard about that in Europe, but 65 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: but actually worldwide. I know. So I would have thought 66 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: it was candy or maybe c d s back when 67 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: c ds were a thing. But according to the Center 68 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: for Retailed Research, which is this British organization, cheese is 69 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: the most frequently stolen item in the entire world. And 70 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: this is nuts, but they claim that four percent of 71 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: the world's cheese supply winds up being shoplifted. Four percent. Actually, 72 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: I read in five thirty eight that the US produces 73 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: about a billion pounds of cheese every month, So that 74 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: seems like a lot of stolen cheese. So any idea 75 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: why it's such a tempting target. Well, I think it 76 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: mostly comes down to practical reasons, like it's pretty easy 77 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: to pocket some cheese if you need to. I that 78 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: might be easy, but I don't know. They want to 79 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: like stick some brie in my pockets or anything like that, 80 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: But you're right, it probably wouldn't look suspicious, I guess, 81 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: or just like pour some not to cheese down a 82 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: short pocket, you know. But you know, cheeses are generally 83 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,799 Speaker 1: packaged in tiny serving so it's not like the majority 84 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: of shoplifters are trying to steal these giant wheels of 85 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: cheese or anything. But I think the real appeal is 86 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: the cheese itself. So for anyone who's hungry or desperate, 87 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: cheese is rich in vitamins and protein, and plus it 88 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: can keep for months at a time, and of course 89 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: it tastes delicious, right, But that isn't actually the only 90 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: type of cheese theft I read about. So I was 91 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: reading about this cheese crime earlier this summer at a 92 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: food competition in England, and there were these two enormous 93 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: blocks of cheddar that one first and second place at 94 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: the Yovil Show, which I guess is a big festival 95 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: in Summerset. But then after the judging, some cat burglars 96 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: snuck into the tent and made off with the big cheese. 97 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: And I mean that literally, so like according to an 98 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: article in the Daily Mail. Each cheese was about the 99 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: weight of a bag of cement and the size of 100 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: a traditional bulky TV sets. Oh my god, that is 101 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: some big cheese. Yeah, and apparently the crime was premeditated because, 102 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: like the authorities agreed, quote, the blocks are not the 103 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: sort of thing you can put in a handbag or 104 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: hide up your jumper. But but if the thieves can 105 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: get these stolen goods to like the U s or France, 106 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,119 Speaker 1: they should actually be able to make a few thousand 107 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: dollars for their efforts on the black market or um, 108 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: you know, like just end up with a year's worth 109 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: of the best grilled cheese sandwiches ever. That sounds pretty 110 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: good to me. Yeah, so keep your eyes peeled for 111 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: its especially big cheddar blocks on even I guess well, 112 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: I definitely will. But let's talk a little bit more 113 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: broadly about cheese and how it's actually made. I don't 114 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 1: know if you saw this number, but did you realize 115 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: there over fourteen hundred different types of cheese out there? 116 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: So that allows for a variety and flavors and textures 117 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: and of course aromas that's really unparalleled by any other food. Yeah, 118 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: there's actually this overview of cheeses from the nineteen sixties 119 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: called the Cheese Book, and uh, it refers to cheese 120 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: as the wine of foods. And that's partially because the 121 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: fermentation makes it possible to have this like tremendous amount 122 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: of variants, even though cheeses are generally made from the 123 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: same ingredients. And I know you looked into some of 124 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: the early history of cheese. I definitely want to hear 125 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: about that. But before we get into that, can I 126 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: redo this one quote game found because it just made 127 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: me really happy? Sure, So what is it? So it's 128 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: by this American writer Clifton Fatiman, who used to write 129 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: for The New Yorker, and he wrote a cheese may disappoint, 130 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: it may be dull, it may be naive, it may 131 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: be oversophisticated, yet it remains cheese. Milks leap towards immortality. 132 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: Oh man, I've got goose bumps from that. Man said, 133 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: milks leap towards immortality. That's a big quote. I like that. Yeah, 134 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: I love it too. But let's talk about cheese's humble beginnings. 135 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: So when you find out in your research, al right, 136 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: so there are a lot of happy accidents in the 137 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: history of the world so of course the discovery of 138 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 1: penicillin falls into that category. So does the discovery of 139 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: corn flakes and the invention of the slinky, and then 140 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: of course there's cheese. I like the idea that, like 141 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: penicilla and corn flakes, the slinky and cheese can all 142 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: sort of hang out and have this one thing in common. 143 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: So I've read basically the same story in a few places, 144 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: but this is how Wired told it. The whole thing 145 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: began when a herdsman carrying a ruminate stomach brimming with 146 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: milk found that by journeys in he had a bag 147 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: full of curds and way. Now some stories claim this 148 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: guy was an Arabian merchant, but whatever the case, for 149 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: some reason he looked into this bag and it was 150 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: using it to transport this milk, and he wasn't put 151 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: off by the smell. And then he decided to stuff 152 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: that cheese in his mouth. I mean, I don't know 153 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: why he would do this, but it was either good 154 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: enough or interesting enough that he decided to do it again. 155 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: And you know, that's the most common theory. But in 156 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: terms of things we can point to the first real 157 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: evidence of cheesemaking that we have is from like seventy 158 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: years ago, and it was from an old pot in Poland, 159 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: and the researchers at the University of Bristol found a 160 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: vessel that looks like it was used to make cheeses. 161 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: Apparently the inners of the thing look very much like 162 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: a modern cheese trainer, and after analyzing the nooks and 163 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: the crevices of the thing that the scientists realized they 164 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: were right. They found fatty acids still stuck in the container, 165 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: which proved it had been used to separate the way 166 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: from the Kurds in order to make cheese. So I'm 167 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,239 Speaker 1: always amazed by this sort of like historical detective work. 168 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: So I don't even understand, like, how do you know 169 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: to look for fatty acids because something kind of looks 170 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: like a cheese trainer. It's amazing. So do you know 171 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: anything about why are Polish forefathers, I mean your Polish 172 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: forefathers and my Polish forefathers father to make cheese? Like 173 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: it feels like such a laborious effort when you've already 174 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: got meat and milk at the ready. Well, if you 175 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: think about it, a lot of it comes down to convenience. 176 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: So then transporting you know, cheese is a lot easier 177 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: and its stores pretty well, and eating it meant you 178 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: could settle down and sustain yourself without having to kill 179 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: livestock for food. And the truth is the process hasn't 180 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: changed all that much in years. I mean, the basic 181 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: elements are still pretty much all the same. You let 182 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: fresh milk ferment with bacteria that can be wild or cultured, 183 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: and when there's enough facidity in your spoiled milk, you 184 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: had these enzymes to make it coagulate. So in that 185 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: Origin of Cheese story I was telling, these enzymes would 186 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: have come from the lining of the stomach bag that 187 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: was being used to transport this milk. And it's called rennet, 188 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: but it can be made in a lab now. And 189 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: then you cut, stir and heat the product to remove 190 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 1: the fluid or the way. And finally you take the curds, 191 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: you put them in the mold with salt and press 192 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: them to get out all that extra liquid, and then 193 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: you let it mature until it blooms into a delicious 194 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: cheese that everybody wants to shoplift, I guess. But yeah, 195 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: here's what's interesting. You remember those four hundred types of 196 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: cheese I mentioned earlier well. According to food scientists Paul 197 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: Kinstead at the University of Vermont, the reason there's so 198 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: many distinct types of cheese is because there are so 199 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: many pre industrial communities that all needed a way to 200 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: preserve milk, so they all figured out their own cheese recipes. 201 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: You know, these different solutions for making cheese given their 202 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: regions distinct climate or milk types or all sorts of 203 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: other conditions there. That's really fascinating. And you know, you 204 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: always hear that term tarawa associated with wine, like all 205 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: the elements of a region's terrain and these unquantifiable conditions 206 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: that give a wine it's unique flavor, and you can 207 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: see why that word gets applied to cheese as well. 208 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: Speaking of tarawa, I was reading this BBC article on 209 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,599 Speaker 1: this cheese called baster Boten Soast. I'm obviously reading that 210 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: off my notes because there's no way I could remember that. 211 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: But this cheese is super famous in Sweden. It's like 212 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: this hard yellow cheese with tiny holes, and according to 213 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: the BBC article, it's served everywhere. It's sort of like 214 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: royal weddings, that the Nobel Prize dinner the at that 215 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: restaurant Noma it's like the most famous rest armor whatever, 216 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: and there's even been poetry written about it. I mean, 217 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: I feel like that's the ultimate compliment for cheese, is 218 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: when a poem gets written about it and the Prince 219 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: of Jordan claims it's what he loves about Sweden most. 220 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: But the craziest thing about this cheese isn't that it's 221 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: in such high demand, but that no one can replicate 222 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: the cheese and other regions, and not even the dairy 223 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: that produces it itself. So apparently some years ago they 224 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: tried to expand their operation to a nearby city, but 225 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: none of the cheese they made there came out the same. 226 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: Like they commissioned this elaborate research to figure out why 227 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: they did all these like big chemical analyzes on the cheese, 228 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: but their scientists just couldn't figure it out. And they're 229 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: all these theories, right, Like some people think there's this 230 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: distinct micro flora in the building and and boor cross 231 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: where the building where the cheese is aged and that 232 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: supposedly gives it a distinct layer of flavor. Or there 233 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: are these old spruce shelves and people think like that 234 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: the cheese is aged on that is contributing to the 235 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: flavor or um. Some people think the cows in the 236 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: usun get more sunlight and that affects their milk. Like 237 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: they're all these theories in fact, like like one of 238 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: the more far out ones is that, like there was 239 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: a meteorite that hit the lake in town, and people 240 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: think that affected the region's soil, So the soil is 241 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 1: what's contributing. Anyway, There are a lot of ideas, but 242 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, no one's been able to replicate the 243 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: cheese's distinct flavor anywhere else. That really is fascinating. All right, well, 244 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: why don't we pick this up with the origin of 245 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: a cheese that's very replicable and that's American cheese. But 246 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: let's do that right after a break. Welcome back to 247 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: part time Genius. All right, Mango, before the break, I 248 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: think you said something about how poetry about cheese might 249 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: be the ultimate compliment you can give a cheese. I 250 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: really I'm going to have to disagree with you on this, 251 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: So I'm curious where you're going with this, because I 252 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: think the highest compliment might be when the Virgin Mary's 253 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: face shows up on the side of your grilled cheese sandwich. 254 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: You know, just to let you know you've got a 255 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: superior cheese on your hands. You know, I remember that 256 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: Jesus cheeto, like the one that looked like Jesus on 257 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: the cross, And I know there was a Jesus image 258 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: that someone found on a marmite lid in Australia, But 259 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 1: I don't really remember the grilled cheese Madonna you're talking about. 260 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: Oh man, the story was pretty incredible and I remember 261 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: it from the news as a kid. But it was 262 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: in this Florida woman made herself a grilled cheese. She 263 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: then cut it in half, took a bite, and then 264 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: stopped because she saw the Mother Mary staring back at 265 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: her right there in her toast. I mean, this must 266 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: have been an amazing experience. And then for some reason 267 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: she decided to box the thing that this half sandwich, 268 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: and and she put some cotton balls around it, and 269 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: she kept it on her nightstand as a good luck charm. 270 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: And she claims the blessed grilled cheese helped her win 271 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: seventy thousand dollars in a casino, among other things. And 272 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: in that time it never actually sprouted mold, and that 273 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: just increased her faith. And it's hours you know. But 274 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: then in two thousand four, she decided to sell it 275 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: on eBay, and the auction side initially took the listing 276 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: down because I thought it was a hoax, but then 277 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: they allowed it to go back up, and the Miracle 278 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: on Toast sold for twenty eight thousand dollars to Golden 279 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: Palace dot Com, which is this online casino. So between 280 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: her like seventy thousand and winning and this twenty thousand 281 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: from this other casino, she basically, like milt a hundred 282 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: thousand dollars out of casinos. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Yeah, 283 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: So was it really a ten year old sandwich? Like, 284 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: how come I didn't have any mold on it? Well, 285 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: Brendan Corner at Slate actually did this analysis on and 286 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: talked about all the factors that could have been contributing 287 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: to this. So the wonder bread would have had plenty 288 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: of preservatives. I know, you might like wonder bread, but 289 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: you might not be surprised to know there are a 290 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: few preservatives in there. And the margine that was slathered 291 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: on it would also protect the bread with its trans fats. 292 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: And you know, the cook cheese itself could have changed 293 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: the pH which would have slowed the molds growth as well. 294 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: But that said, Corner did think it was pretty special 295 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: that there was no mold at all on this sandwich. 296 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: I mean that that is unbelievable. But there's a bigger 297 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: shock to this mego, and that was that a copycat 298 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: sandwich with Hello Kitty's face, and you think that'd be 299 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: a big deal. It only had a high bit on 300 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: it of eighties cents, So sad well, I like that. 301 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: No one saying top dollar for a miracle kitty sandwich. Actually, also, 302 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: just for the record, when she sold the grilled cheese, 303 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: the Florida woman insisted that whoever the next buyer was 304 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: not devour the Mother Mary sandwich, and the casino not 305 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: surprisingly agreed to this. I mean, it's a ten year 306 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: old sandwich. But speaking of special cheeses, I know you 307 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: looked into the history of American cheese, so why don't 308 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: you take a minute just to give us a quick 309 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: rundown of it. So America rallied around making cheddar pretty early, 310 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: and Cheddar was this incredibly hearty cheese. It weathered the 311 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: temperatures and humidity really well on like some of the 312 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: other European cheeses. But it still tasted great, and by 313 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: the seventeen nineties, the US was exporting cheese to England 314 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: as quote Yankee cheese. It was also called American cheese 315 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: back then too, and the upper classes in England looked 316 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: down on this stuff, partially because it came from America, 317 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: but also because they didn't think it stood up to 318 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: the traditional English cheddars. And the quality really varied from 319 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: cheese to cheese. But it's sold to the lower classes 320 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: in England because it's so cheap, and America sort of 321 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: rallied around this cheddar cheese. So I don't know if 322 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: you've gone to Upstate New York. Is my mother in 323 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: law's from Upstate New York. But um, they're all these 324 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: stores there that sells store cheese in the windows. Yeah, 325 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: and I I never heard that term before. But the 326 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: first time I saw it, I was so confused, like, 327 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: what's store cheese? But that's just the term for local cheddar. 328 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: And it's almost like a house wine. But Upstate New 329 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: York's love affair with cheese really took off in the 330 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: eighteen fifties and eighteen fifty one in particular. That's when 331 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: this gentleman named Jesse Williams started a cheese revolution by 332 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: starting the first big cheese factory in upstate New York. 333 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: Like his son wasn't a very good cheesemaker, apparently, and 334 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: he decided to help him out by buying look from 335 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: the surrounding areas, and together they made this more consistently 336 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: quality cheese. And according to David Clark, who was our 337 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: you might remember who was our cheese historian at Mental Floss, 338 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: the factories just took off in the region from there, 339 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: and by the eighteen seventies, the US was sending over 340 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: three hundred million pounds of cheese back to England every year. 341 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: So Cheddar sort of became the default cheese. That's really interesting, 342 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: and I like that we claim we had a cheese 343 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: historian at Mental Flaws. That's pretty great. He was awesome, though. 344 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: So I do want to touch on things like Monterey 345 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: Jack and other American cheeses, But how do we get 346 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: from Cheddar to craft singles? Like? Is there actually a 347 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: thread there? Yeah? Definitely. So one of the things I 348 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: was stunned by was how early James Kraft was in 349 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: the business. And actually Canada kind of comes to their 350 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: love of craft honestly because he was a Canadian who 351 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: moved to the States and saw this opportunity in whole 352 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: selling cheese. I guess he was trying to figure out 353 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: how to reduce waste, because at first he was just 354 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: trying to cram cheese into jars and then into cans apparently, 355 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: which just seems so gross. But then in uh in 356 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen, he stumbled into this genius idea and here 357 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: I'm quoting Clark again. By shredding refuse cheese, repasteurizing it, 358 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: and mixing in some sodium phosphate, Kraft produced the strange 359 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: wonder we now know as American processed cheese, and apparently 360 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: it was this huge success from the start, right, Like 361 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: Kraft was this true American salesman. He marketed his cheese, 362 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: which was obviously made from scrap cheese, as this superior 363 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 1: product because it was more consistent. And by the nineteen thirties, 364 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: over the cheese consumed in America was craft, which is crazy, right, 365 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: So naturally this processed cheese had this much longer shelf 366 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: life than anything that was natural, and when he got 367 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: into supplying cheese for the troops, his business really took off. 368 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: Of course, later cheese manufacturer's lobby to have Crafts product 369 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: called a cheese product instead of a natural cheese. Yeah, 370 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: that's right, because you know, anything with less than I 371 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: think it's fifty one cheese and it can't legally be 372 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: called cheese, which which to me seems pretty fair if 373 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: it's less than that. But you know, whatever, I hear 374 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: the phrase cheese product, I always think of cheese whiz 375 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: and how you told me that story about when the 376 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: inventor of cheese was tried a jar of it. Decades later, 377 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: he actually called up the hotline for the company because 378 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: it tasted so terrible. Yeah, they changed the formula to 379 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: not use any cheese, and he called up the hotline 380 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: to tell him it tasted like axle grease, like his 381 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: exact words. But back to the graft single. So that 382 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: was James's brother, Norman's invention. Norman Craft and he knew 383 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: that sliced cheese from the store was pretty inconsistent, like 384 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: it came in all sorts of sizes and thickness. So 385 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: in he started playing with ways to make a more 386 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: convenient cheese and this was going to be a godsend 387 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: to people, but it actually took him fifteen years to 388 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: do it, but the way he did is kind of cool, 389 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: Like he had these ribbons of cheese like hot cheese 390 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: that would get poured and then cut by a machine 391 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: and packaged in a block of eight peelable slices. It 392 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 1: was a huge improvement, and the press actually raved about it. 393 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: They called him Mom Deluxe Process slices. And according to 394 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: the New York Times, cheese slices used to curl and 395 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: dry out and this solved those problems. So sales of 396 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: Craft just skyrocketed after the innovation, all thanks to Norman. 397 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: That just sounds like the name of the guy that 398 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: should have invented Craft cheese, or should have invented this 399 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: process cheese. But so so when did they actually start 400 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: coming individually wrapped? Yeah, so I looked at that too, 401 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: and that wasn't until nine when this other inventor, I 402 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: think he's in Indiana. He wasn't working for Craft, but 403 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: he solved the problem of these sliced cheese blocks sticking together, 404 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: and Craft saw the genius of the idea and came 405 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: up with their own tweak on the process. So Bonap 406 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: did this article glorifying the Craft single and as they 407 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: put it, quote American cheese is the greatest cheese known 408 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: to man, even if it really isn't cheese at all. 409 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: Oh ouch. So, actually, we always had craft singles in 410 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: my house growing up, and partially it was because we 411 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,719 Speaker 1: use them for grilled cheese, like they were there for 412 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: me and my sister to toast our own as a snack, 413 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: but increasingly we only kept them in the house around 414 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: for my dog. Your dog, Yeah, she was like really 415 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: greedy and she'd fly out the door and just stay 416 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: a little out of range, and as a pup, we'd 417 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: like chase her around until we caught her, Like our 418 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: whole family would be out there trying to tackle her 419 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: because she so widely. But then I think my mom 420 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: realized that she loved American cheese. So as my dog 421 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: ruled her, you'd call my dog's name and she just 422 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: kind of ignore you. But then when you yelled the 423 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: word cheese and then you prove it. But with the 424 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: sounds like the plastic just peeling off that craft single, 425 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: then she'd suddenly come bounding back. I like that she 426 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: needed the two pieces of proof there. That's pretty crazy. Well, 427 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: like all my neighbors knew it, like they knew when 428 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: we had like waving this craft single. They're like, what 429 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: was going on? That's pretty great. Well, craft obviously has 430 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: a big part in American nostalgia, and you know, there's 431 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: been this huge swing back from manufactured foods to the 432 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: super artisanal stuff. And there was an article in Scientific 433 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: American last year that said there are over four hundred 434 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: craft cheesemakers in the US now, which is I think 435 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: it's like double what it was just fifteen sixteen years ago. Yeah, 436 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: and I'm sure it's a similar trend for like reason 437 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: artisanal pickle makers or whatever, pickle makers. Yeah. But what 438 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: struck me about the Scientific American article was that it 439 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: made this interesting point about how the American tarawa versus 440 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: the European concept of it. And let me quote this 441 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: article by the writer Leila Epplett. She says other European 442 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: counterparts have an invention of tradition. Americans have what cultural 443 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: anthropologists than m I T. Professor Heather Packson calls a 444 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: tradition of invention. You see, I flipped that thing. There's 445 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: a little different, but it emphasizes this innovation and prioritizes 446 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: change over continuity. So in France, the flavor of terrain 447 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: described how the region and the people and the cultural 448 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: tradition were all involved, and also like the technique, they 449 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: all contribute to the taste of the cheese. But in 450 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: the United States, tear wise given this kind of more 451 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: of an entrepreneurial and maybe an individualist twist, and and 452 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: that helps to designate the taste of a particular farm 453 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: and its products rather than you know, sort of that 454 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: the taste of the cultural or the geographic region that 455 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: you might see from the European cheeses. And that's actually 456 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: pretty interesting, uh, And I guess it makes sense because 457 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: the US always has like this more individual spin on things, 458 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: and it makes sense for cheese as well. But I 459 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: actually remember reading this article in an anthropology class in 460 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: college about baseball and how unusual it is in sports 461 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: for one person to face off against an entire team 462 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: and you know that that's what every batter does one 463 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: by one, right, but also how that's part of what 464 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: makes it such an American game, like this mythic belief 465 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: in the individual. And I don't know if it's a 466 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: great argument, but I actually never thought about it that way. 467 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: But we should probably do another episode on cheese at 468 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: some point, because there's so much we won't get to 469 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: cover in this episode. And because as I've said many times, 470 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: I could live on cheese. I love cheese so much. 471 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: But I do want to cover some cheese super relatives 472 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: because I love cheese so much. So how about we 473 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: tackle that after a quick break. That's great, Okay, man, 474 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: go today. We've got Christine Haney on the line now. 475 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: Christine is an old friend of ours from her previous 476 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: life at the New York Times. She's a wonderful reporter 477 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: and she's got a terrific news show on Netflix called 478 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: Rot and it's all about food crimes. Welcome to the program, Christine. 479 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: Thank you, it's great to be here. So tell us 480 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: you're doing this show for Anthony Bourdain's production company, and 481 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: it looks really beautiful. So I have to ask, why 482 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: did you choose to focus on food crimes? When I 483 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: was at the Times, they had a conversation with some 484 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: of the heads of Zero Points Are Productions, and one 485 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: thing I found was that it was on maternity leave 486 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: and I was watching bourdain show and just thought, as 487 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,479 Speaker 1: you said, it was a beautiful program, and I thought, like, 488 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: why am I watching this? I haven't slept in months, 489 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: there's something here really compelling, And so it actually just 490 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: grew out of a conversation with VPD about the fact 491 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: that I had covered a lot of crime. I've sent 492 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: you people to prison with my reporting and how that 493 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 1: intersects with food. And they've done a lot of wonderful 494 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: food shows like Mind of a Chef, Parts Unknown, and 495 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: they've also done some crime shows like The Hunt with 496 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: John Walsh, and I just said, why don't you marry 497 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: the two? So they hired me to start looking into 498 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: this area. And then when you start looking into food 499 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: crimes and what has now become rotten, you see that 500 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: food fraud is just so rich with stories. And sorry 501 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: to say, but if you're a criminal, this is the 502 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: place to go. Anyone, any you know, job leads here. 503 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: But because it's incredibly underregulated and you can make a 504 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: lot of money, you can commit a lot of crime 505 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: and you won't serve as much time. Well, I love 506 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: that you're giving criminals advice on our show, and we 507 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: in that sky with criminals, so that's great. But I 508 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: just watched the show on Garlic and it really is 509 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: beautifully shy. It's fascinating, and and it was called Garlic breath, 510 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: which I was just lighted by. But one of the 511 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: things I thought was just so crazy was that you've 512 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: got those clips of how garlic wasn't super popular before 513 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: I think it's the sixties or seventies, and then they're 514 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: all these commercials trying to introduce it to the public. 515 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: Like that footage was hilarious and and obviously the documentary 516 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: is super serious, but how did you learn that story? 517 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: We talked about how did you grow up with as 518 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: much garlic? And then it really got into these free 519 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: ranging conversations with my colleagues and CPZ about when you 520 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: start eating more garlic? Were you influenced by Um Emerald? 521 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember watching Emeral logos when I was 522 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: a federal courts reporter in Alabama covering death row cases, 523 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: and he was just comfort So I always think of 524 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: him with him saying like Garla, garlic, garlic, and so um. 525 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: That's where we kind of picked up on that history 526 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: of how it's really taken off and it's integrated into 527 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 1: everything that we eat now. But then it's married to 528 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: this crazy crime that a lot of garlic in the 529 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: US comes by way of Chinese prisons. I mean, that's 530 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: just astounding to me, and can you tell us a 531 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: little bit about how you discovered that story and how 532 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: you managed to get that footage. So basically, I carried 533 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: the sixty seven page lawsuit everywhere I went and just 534 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: kept reading it over and over. And you see in 535 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 1: the episode there are all these people who have been 536 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: sued in a rico case, like a racketeering case against 537 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: this garlic company out in California, Harmony, which has offices 538 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: in China and California. And I just really started digging 539 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: in and reaching out to the different players who had 540 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: been sued Um, and one of them was this wonderful 541 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: and then they makes use you who is from China, 542 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: grew up in the Shandong province, came to New York 543 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: to be a professor, lost his professorship after UM funding 544 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: went away. Um during made off and then Um went 545 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: back into the garlic business and realized when he was 546 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: home in a family vacation that the local housewives were 547 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: complaining to him about how his their work had been 548 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: taken there like at home work had been taken by 549 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: where they used to peel garlic was now being done 550 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: by all the local prisons. So his son, he's this 551 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: great tech guy who went to Columbia, helped him by 552 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: a undercover camera, and he snuck into the prisons, presented 553 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: himself as like an American businessman now and got us 554 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: this incredible footage. And it is extraordinary also because his 555 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: son knows like gadgets so well that the quality of 556 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: the footage we have from inside of prison is his 557 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: I think extraordinary. Yeah, it really is. I'm a little 558 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: bit concerned about about maybe we're not working hard enough 559 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: because we haven't sent anyone to prison with our work 560 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: on Part Time Genius, and we haven't had to sneak 561 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: anyone out of China. We really got to step up 562 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: our game here. But we are talking about cheese, which 563 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: is awesome today, and so we we've talked about some 564 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: funny cheese stuffs in this episode. But Christine, I'm curious, 565 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: are there any cheese related scandals or just weird facts 566 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: that you're obsessed with. First, one thing everyone should know 567 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: is that the way cheese is regulated is if you 568 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: buy a pepperoni pizza, if the pepperoni makes you sick, 569 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: that's regulated by the U. S d A. If the 570 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: cheese makes you sick, it's regulated by the FDA. Well, 571 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: I love that every bite of a slice of pepperoni 572 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: pizza is like a delicious taste of bureaucracy. It is 573 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: absolutely yes. So, Christine, my favorite thing about you as 574 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: a reporter is when you find whimsical stories. And and 575 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: I know I've talked to you about your Bird Talk 576 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: magazine story the at Food, which I loved so much, 577 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: and and you found royalty and taxi cab drivers, and 578 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: you just find great stories. But is there anything delightful 579 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: going on in food or agriculture right now that you're 580 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: kind of fascinated by. I am still three years in 581 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: really enjoying writing about food and agriculture, and I think 582 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: the characters are wonderful. I've been spending a lot of 583 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: time talking to this wonderful turkey farmer who won't eat 584 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: turkey to be so close to with turkeys, so we 585 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: eat pork on Thanksgiving and um, and I basically I'm 586 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: talking to farmers at all hours now, so it's I'm 587 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,959 Speaker 1: getting very attuned to like the habits of livestock and 588 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: how turkeys can be very sensitive. And it's just like 589 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: a very entertaining and fun beats that's really wonderful. Well, 590 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: I hope all of our listeners will check out Rotten 591 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: on Netflix right now. Christine Honey, thanks so much for 592 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: being on Part Time Genius. Thank you. It's great chatting 593 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: with you. Okay, so before we get off American Cheese 594 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: is I do want to tell one last story, and 595 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: that's the Jack and Monterey Jack. So there's actually a 596 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: real jack behind that shoes. Yeah, it was this this scott. 597 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: His name was David Jack, and he came to the 598 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: US in the eighteen forties. He was a contractor and 599 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: he wasn't exactly like the laid back California dude, and 600 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: he made a lot of money and started owning land 601 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: and was supposedly this ruthless landlord, but he ended up 602 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: with shares in a number of local dairy farms. Now, 603 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: the truth is that Franciscan friars in the Monterey area 604 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,479 Speaker 1: had been making this distinctive cheese in the region for 605 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: quite a while. But since he already had the milk, 606 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: David Jack decided to co opt the friar's recipe and 607 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: get into the cheese business for himself. Initially, he called 608 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: the product Jack's Cheese, but then he rebranded it Monterey Jack. 609 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: So I mean, that's pretty cool that like monks have 610 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: given us chantagne and cheese and and they get a 611 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: little credit for it. Yeah, don't forget genetics, maga. I 612 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: meant Mindel and his pea plants and all that. You're 613 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: right though, they don't get credit. So, uh well, why 614 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: don't we do a few superlatives before we get to 615 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: the fact off, what would you have on your side? 616 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: All right? Well, how about the best cheese for when 617 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: you want to spoil yourself? And I'm gonna go with 618 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: with Puel for this, And it's that crumbly cheese from Serbia. 619 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: It's actually donkey cheese. Do you remember when there are 620 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: all those rumors that Djokovic, after going on that insane 621 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: windstreak in tennis, decided to buy up all the donkey 622 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: cheese in Serbia. It was so absurd and it was 623 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: in the headlines for like a long time. I mean, 624 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: you got a dream big when you're somebody like that. 625 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: And maybe it's a smart business strategy to corner that market. 626 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: Because Puel sells for five hundred and seventy six dollars 627 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: a pound. That's insane. So what makes it so expensive? Well, 628 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: apparently it takes about twenty five leaders just to make 629 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: a single kilogram of donkey cheese. Donkey cheese feels like 630 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: it should be a phrase, like the synonym for going bananas. 631 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: Like one second, Hector and I were having a normal 632 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: conversation and then he went all donkey cheese on me. 633 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: I like that, who's Hector? Mango? I know, Hector don't 634 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: want to I'm not sure this phrase is going to 635 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: take off, but all right, what cheese would you like 636 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: to honor? Actually, before I go, I read about this 637 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: moose cheese from Sweden that sells for over four dollars 638 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: a pound, and I think the idea is similar to 639 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: your donkey cheese, except that I think moose might be 640 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: more temperamental, Like if a moose senses any sort of disturbance, 641 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: it'll go dry for a while. So milky one has 642 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: to be done super patiently and in total silence. And 643 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: even then it's not like you're walking away with like 644 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: a bucket of moose milk. The return for those two 645 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: hours of quiet is pretty sparse. But I think the 646 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: cheese is supposed to be like extraordinary. That is pretty interesting. 647 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: But I feel like you're stalling, Mango. I mean, you 648 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: haven't given me your cheese award yet. I know, because 649 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: I'm not really prepared for this. Uh, let me look 650 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: through my notes. So, um, I don't want to say 651 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,959 Speaker 1: something about costume Marza, which is that illegal magot cheese, 652 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 1: because it's too gross. How about the cheese worth losing 653 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: your head over? And that would be brie. So, according 654 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: to the story, Louis the sixteenth was fleeing from revolutionaries 655 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: in France, but along the way, the monarch decided to 656 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: take a pit stop at a tavern because his tom 657 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: tom was growling. And when he was apprehended before being 658 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: taken to the guillotine, mind you, he was caught with 659 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: this giant plate of brie in front of him, and 660 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: he was just enjoying the cheese in a very leisurely manner, 661 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: which is ridiculous. But I actually find it a little Shakespearean. Wait, 662 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: first of all, did you say tom tom? I just 663 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 1: wanted to be clear on that. I think that you did. 664 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 1: But so, so, why why is this? Why is this Shakespearean? Uh? 665 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: Because it's like a big question for her monarch right 666 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: to breathe or not to breathe? Oh gosh, I didn't 667 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: think it could get worse than Tom. Tom, you really 668 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: did say that, And now you've said to bree or 669 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: not to breathe. But all right, well, why don't we 670 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: pretend neither of those things happened, and let's just get 671 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: straight into the fact. Off. All right, here's one for you. 672 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: Did you know that, before lawmakers settled on the term 673 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: process cheese, cheesemakers were lobbying to classify craft cheeses as 674 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: embalmed cheese. Do you know what Richard Nixon's last meal 675 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: as president was? What's that? So? He had a pineapple slices, 676 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: a glass of milk, and a bowl of cottage cheese. 677 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: There's a photo of it online and it's actually so sad. 678 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: But apparently cottage cheese was one of Nixon's favorite snacks, 679 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: and he especially liked to eat it with ketchup. Oh. 680 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: I actually am a fan of cottage cheese, but I 681 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: don't understand. Actually I like all of those things, but 682 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: I don't understand that combat nation. If you've ever eaten 683 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: pineapple and had anything with dairy in it, you know 684 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: along with it, it is disgusting. That is so strange. 685 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: Nixon was a strange man. Well, according to the site 686 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 1: Addie McDonald's used the clever trick to cut costs back 687 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. They pulled one of the 688 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: two slices of cheese from their double cheeseburger and renamed 689 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: it the Mick Double. The move saved six cents per 690 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: sandwich and fifteen thousand dollars a year per restaurant. Wow, 691 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: that's gonna add up. Do you know that the phrase 692 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: the big cheese actually comes from Hindi like cheese and 693 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: Hindi and or do actually means thing and the British 694 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: picked up on it when they colonized India. The real 695 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: cheese meant something that was top notch or like the 696 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: real thing, and a big cheese evolved into this like 697 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: important person. Not everyone loved the term, though, so Wired 698 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: reports that by people were using the word cheesy with 699 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: sarcasm and using it to describe something negative, like I 700 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: didn't realize that was that old? Yeah I didn't either. 701 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: All right, Well you I have talked about the giant 702 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: wheel of cheese Andrew Jackson received during his presidency, but 703 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: apparently big wheels used to be a common present in America. 704 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: When Thomas Jefferson was elected, he received the Mammoth of Cheshire. 705 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: It was this twelve hundred pound wheel of cheese and 706 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: it was rolled through towns from Massachusetts, you know, like 707 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 1: much fanfare along the way, and of course some ridiculed 708 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: along the way as well. The cheese even had a 709 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: Jefferson quote on the rind. It said, rebellion to tyrants 710 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: is obedience to God. And you know that this wasn't 711 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 1: just in America, like a big wheel of cheese was 712 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: a great way to show someone you cared in England too. 713 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,439 Speaker 1: When Queen Victoria got married, her subjects pooled the milk 714 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: of seven fifty cows to create a thousand pound wheel, 715 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: and the townspeople were so impressed with their feet that 716 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: they asked if they could put it on display and 717 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: delay giving the present to her, which he agreed to. 718 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: But when the exhibition was over and they tried to 719 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: wheel the cheese back her way, the queen declined to 720 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: give it a home. All right, what did you know 721 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: that Philadelphia Cream Cheese isn't actually named for Philly, but 722 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: actually for the ont of Philadelphia, New York. It kind 723 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: of ruins because I was just pictured Ben Franklin. They're 724 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: smearing his toast within the mornings. I know, I always 725 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,399 Speaker 1: had such pride, like I lived near Philly, I thought 726 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: it was from Philly. Um. This is a great one. 727 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: In the eighteen sixties when Brazil was fighting the sea 728 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: battle against Uruguay, Uruguayan ship ran out of ammunition, so 729 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: they used cannonballs made out of stale eat um cheese 730 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: that they had on board. But the weirdest part is 731 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: that it actually worked and they won the sea battle. Ah, 732 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,399 Speaker 1: that is a great story. But actually I've got one 733 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,360 Speaker 1: I've been saving that. I really think it's gonna be 734 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: hard to top. So have you heard about the origin 735 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: of the Packers cheese head hats? So it goes back 736 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,359 Speaker 1: to this guy named Ralph Bruno, and he was reappulstering 737 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: his mom's couch when he realized he had an extra cushion. 738 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: So he decided to get playful with it, and he 739 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: burned some holes into it and painted it yellow. Now, 740 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: his mom banished him from the house because it smelled 741 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: so bad, but he wore it to a Brewers game 742 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: later that night, and somehow the ease head took off 743 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: across Wisconsin sports. That's where it all began. I love that, 744 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: and I also love that like, burnt cheese smells bad, 745 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: but burnt cheese hats also smell bad. Yeah, well, I 746 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: mean I like that you found the guy behind the 747 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: American cheese trends, So I'm gonna give it to you. 748 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: Thanks so much. I feel like I needed this one. 749 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: This is this is a good one. Well, thank you 750 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: guys all for listening. Now, if we've forgotten any facts 751 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: about cheese that you feel like we need to know, 752 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: feel free to email us part Time Genius at how 753 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. You can also call us on 754 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,760 Speaker 1: our seven fact hotline that's one eight four four pt Genius, 755 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: or hit us up on Facebook or Twitter. Thanks so 756 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: much for listening, Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius 757 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: is a production of How Stuff Works and wouldn't be 758 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,919 Speaker 1: possible without several brilliant people who do the important things 759 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: we couldn't even begin to understand. Noel Brown made the 760 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: theme song and does the MIXI mixy sound thing gave. 761 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,240 Speaker 1: Louesier is our lead researcher, with support from the research 762 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:18,359 Speaker 1: Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown, and Lucas Adams. If 763 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 1: you like what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe, and 764 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: if you really really like what you've heard, maybe you 765 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 1: could leave a good review for US. Jason who