Speaker 1: Holy Human with Leanne Rhymes is a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Welcome my beautiful friends. Today's episode is one
Speaker 1: of my absolute favorites because it is overflowing with great
Speaker 1: information about the importance of building and maintaining healthy boundaries,
Speaker 1: which I am sure is a topic that we could
Speaker 1: all use a good dose of wisdom on and it's
Speaker 1: coming from the wise and wonderful Terry Cole, the best
Speaker 1: selling author of Boundary Boss and many others, and she's
Speaker 1: my guest on today's Holy Human. Yet, actually, how are
Speaker 1: my friend Terry Cole? Welcome? Welcome to the Whole Human podcast.
Speaker 1: Thank you so so much for joining us. I'm so
Speaker 1: pumped to be here. I'm so excited to have you here.
Speaker 1: I have to say your book had me in all
Speaker 1: the fields, your Boundary Boss book, when I knew that
Speaker 1: you were coming on and I was like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: have to dig into this book. I have to say
Speaker 1: that it was it was a bit intimidating because I
Speaker 1: feel like my boundaries have pretty much been non existent
Speaker 1: for my whole life. Do you find that this is
Speaker 1: a common feeling for people? Do you find that boundaries
Speaker 1: are intimidating? Yeah? Completely, And if you're raised as a woman.
Speaker 1: I mean, really think about it. Your situation is five
Speaker 1: times more complicated because you became highly visible at a
Speaker 1: young age. So let's just do this in front of
Speaker 1: the whole world, fantastic, where normally we're just having no
Speaker 1: boundaries whatsoever within our families or communities, because most of
Speaker 1: us were raised and praised. If you were raised as
Speaker 1: a woman for being a self abandoning, codependent, like we
Speaker 1: got praise for the more self sacrificing, the more giving,
Speaker 1: be nice, and this was like the highest virtue humanly possible.
Speaker 1: For at least where I grew up, it was all
Speaker 1: about being nice. So I just learned to say yes
Speaker 1: when I really wanted to say no because I thought
Speaker 1: being nice was more important than being honest. Wow, that's
Speaker 1: it right there. I mean, we've put so much more
Speaker 1: weight on being the nice especially, like you said, the
Speaker 1: nice girl, the nice woman, instead of being truthful. And
Speaker 1: when you say truth, what comes up for me as
Speaker 1: the juxtaposition of being nice as being mean. Truth is mean.
Speaker 1: That's kind of what I've equated. There's no way of
Speaker 1: telling your truth without the anger and the bitterness and
Speaker 1: the resentment and things that come behind that, And this
Speaker 1: is a whole new lesson for me that I'm stepping
Speaker 1: into in my own life of telling my truth in
Speaker 1: a clear way without having to have the push of
Speaker 1: all of these heavy emotions behind it, which is so hard, right,
Speaker 1: but think about it this way. Part of why we
Speaker 1: equate truth with meanness is a you wait too long
Speaker 1: when you learn that you should suppress how you feel
Speaker 1: if someone else won't like it. So this is like
Speaker 1: people pleasing syndrome validation outside of ourselves. Then we wait
Speaker 1: a super long time, so by the time you can't
Speaker 1: even contain that truth anymore, you will use a sledge hammer,
Speaker 1: even when like a pencil eraser would have done the trick.
Speaker 1: Because we're so piste. We waited too long, and now
Speaker 1: we're a volcano. Because the truth about frustration and not
Speaker 1: being seen and not being heard and not being known
Speaker 1: is that there's a cumulative effect. So it starts in
Speaker 1: childhood and then it just goes from relationship to relationship
Speaker 1: where you're like I, I'm checking boxes, making sure everyone
Speaker 1: else has what they need. There's no conflict, I'm not
Speaker 1: rocking the boat. You need to get to a point
Speaker 1: where you're like and I can no longer do that,
Speaker 1: you know, and that starts in childhood. I mean that
Speaker 1: starts with our parents and the way that we were parented.
Speaker 1: I know, I've been doing a lot of digging for myself,
Speaker 1: and I know that I was basically confused manipulation with love.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of us have God blessed my parents,
Speaker 1: but that was the way her mom parented her, and
Speaker 1: that's the way that I got parented. And so even
Speaker 1: now I'm starting to realize in all the ways that
Speaker 1: I manipulate, which is such a hard thing to rub
Speaker 1: up against because to be honest about I'm not giving
Speaker 1: out of love. I'm giving out of manipulation in order
Speaker 1: to get my need met or out of fear. Then
Speaker 1: you come up against the question of like, well when
Speaker 1: do I give out of love? Like what is love?
Speaker 1: What's something else other than manipulation? Because that's the way
Speaker 1: we've learned to love, that's the way we learned to
Speaker 1: get and receive love. And it's a it's a hard one.
Speaker 1: Well it is. It's like facing the shadow self and
Speaker 1: being like, Okay, I'm human. I've got the light, and
Speaker 1: of course I have the darkness because we all do.
Speaker 1: But I remember in my twenties and early third daies
Speaker 1: first coming up against like what is my shadow self?
Speaker 1: And it's super painful because we have a particular way
Speaker 1: of perceiving ourselves ego dysk tonic. It's called where our
Speaker 1: idea of ourselves? When I was, you know, codependently attached
Speaker 1: to every human being on planet Earth in my life,
Speaker 1: giving out of not not love, right, giving out of
Speaker 1: wanting to be needed, and with codependency you're giving because
Speaker 1: it's fear of rejection. There's all of the things that
Speaker 1: are there. I really thought I was like mother Teresa.
Speaker 1: Like honestly, I was like, I'm just a lover like that,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I'm just I'm just all hard
Speaker 1: as me until I had to me is in therapist
Speaker 1: right who helped me see because I was trying to
Speaker 1: manipulate and fix this situation that one of my siblings
Speaker 1: was in that was a bad situation and abusive relationship, drugs,
Speaker 1: no running water like that bad. Yeah, And I was
Speaker 1: crying to my therapist and being like what am I
Speaker 1: going to do? I've been I tried this, and I
Speaker 1: tried that, Like what am I going to do? You know?
Speaker 1: And she was like, hello, Well, since it's not your life,
Speaker 1: watch and cry. I don't I don't know, but it's
Speaker 1: not on me to do something. But she was like,
Speaker 1: do you understand what's happening? And I was like no,
Speaker 1: but please enlighten me because I really don't understand. And
Speaker 1: she said, you've worked for twenty years in therapy or
Speaker 1: fifteen years whatever it was at that point to create
Speaker 1: a pretty harmonious in her life and a pretty harmonious
Speaker 1: outer life, you know, relationships, whatever. So what's really happening
Speaker 1: is that you want to fix your sister's problems because
Speaker 1: her dumpster fire of a life is getting in the
Speaker 1: way of your internal peace. Interesting, that is so much
Speaker 1: less cool than being mother Teresa, but whatever. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: it is for your own sanity so that you don't
Speaker 1: have to feel the paint through them. Basically, yeah, I
Speaker 1: totally understand that. You talk about codependency. You talk about
Speaker 1: high functioning codependency in your book, and I was wondering
Speaker 1: if you could elaborate on that and what that is,
Speaker 1: what the signs are so we can all sit here
Speaker 1: like I'm doing and not our head. Yes that is us,
Speaker 1: because I feel like we all have a level of
Speaker 1: this to some degree, yes, especially being raised as women,
Speaker 1: because we really are the bridgers, the assuagers, the soothers
Speaker 1: of the world, so we're sort of the producers, like
Speaker 1: keeping it going, you know. So first of all, the
Speaker 1: backstory on why high functioning codependency as opposed to just
Speaker 1: regular old codependency is that my clients didn't identify I
Speaker 1: would see codependent behavior, I would mention it, and they
Speaker 1: would go no, no, No, you're confused. I'm not dependent
Speaker 1: on squad like everyone is dependent on me. I'm doing everything,
Speaker 1: I'm making all the dough. No, you're wrong, I'm not
Speaker 1: that I'm not involved with an addict. Right. There was
Speaker 1: this old school idea from Codependent No More that came
Speaker 1: out in the early eighties. Maybe so I got it
Speaker 1: because I had a different sort of relationship to codependency too.
Speaker 1: I found that my clients were highly capable, extremely smart
Speaker 1: women who were basically running the world, and yet they
Speaker 1: were doing it at the expense of themselves. So I
Speaker 1: added high functioning to codependency. Right. Yes, I'm raising my hands.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're explaining this because when I turned thirty,
Speaker 1: I had hit kind of rock bottom for myself and
Speaker 1: went into to treatment, and I basically went in for
Speaker 1: a codependency. I mean codependency and anxiety, depression and all
Speaker 1: things come along with it. But until your book, I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm not cod upend, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: And then you talking about high functional codependent. I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, I didn't really completely detached from that need
Speaker 1: or that ameshment. I guess in a way, yes, and
Speaker 1: that behavioral interaction. So for those of you who don't
Speaker 1: know what codependency is, according to Terry Coal, it is
Speaker 1: being overly invested in the feeling states, the decisions, the outcomes,
Speaker 1: and the circumstances of the people in your life. But
Speaker 1: it's to the detriment of your internal peace, or your
Speaker 1: physical or financial well being or spiritual well being. Because
Speaker 1: as lovers, mothers, bonus moms, all the things that we are,
Speaker 1: of course, we're invested in the happiness of the people
Speaker 1: we love. But when you're codependent, you feel responsible. So
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this and you're like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: am I, I'm going to ask you right now to
Speaker 1: check your urgency. When you're best friend gets in touch
Speaker 1: with you and says, oh my God, I have this
Speaker 1: terrible situation, this thing happened. I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1: If that feels like you immediately jump into action, and
Speaker 1: it literally feels like your friends problem is yours to fix.
Speaker 1: You feel that weight and that urgency that is codependency now,
Speaker 1: because I feel the way in the urgency of the
Speaker 1: whole world, because I feel like I'm super empathetic and
Speaker 1: it's just me as an artist, I have that kind
Speaker 1: of connection with life. How do you really differentiate between, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm an empathetic person and then I'm also codependent because
Speaker 1: those can feel like very similar things. Well they can,
Speaker 1: but not really because here's the thing yet, yes, on
Speaker 1: the feeling thing, right, because in both situations there's a
Speaker 1: feeling element, But when you're codependent, you're not just feeling
Speaker 1: like compassion or empathy for your friends situation. You feel
Speaker 1: responsible to fix it, and that is totally different. It's
Speaker 1: one thing to say to your friend, Hey, I'm here
Speaker 1: for you. How can I best support you? Right now?
Speaker 1: Are we brainstorming? What what do you need? How can
Speaker 1: I best support you? Knowing that just like in my
Speaker 1: sister's situation, it was not mine to fix, right my
Speaker 1: therapist has said to me in that scenario, what makes
Speaker 1: you think you know what lessons your sister needs to
Speaker 1: learn in this life? Right? And I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think can we all agree cannot be
Speaker 1: in the woods with no running water with some crackhead's abusive?
Speaker 1: Like can we agree? You would think, But she was
Speaker 1: like I don't know, Terry, like I can't say that.
Speaker 1: That's not how she has to learn. And when I
Speaker 1: stepped back from that relationship, not you know and said, hey,
Speaker 1: if you ever really want to get out, I'm here.
Speaker 1: I love you, but I can't have you talking about
Speaker 1: abuse all day long. Nine months later she got in touch,
Speaker 1: She's like, I'm ready to go, moved around to went
Speaker 1: back to school osber and did it on her own terms.
Speaker 1: And I was happy to be a part of the solution,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't my solution. It was her solution for
Speaker 1: her life. And I actually talked quite a bit in
Speaker 1: the book than to what you're talking about with highly
Speaker 1: sensitive people and empaths, because it does impact how we
Speaker 1: interact in our relationships. If you identify as someone who
Speaker 1: is an EmPATH, we don't just feel sympathy for others
Speaker 1: we feel what's going on like it is going on
Speaker 1: for us, but the healthy part of our minds has
Speaker 1: to know it's not, and that we can be supportive
Speaker 1: and stay lovingly connected to others without thinking that we
Speaker 1: know better than they do. My pattern, my whole life
Speaker 1: has been I need to fix your emotional state so
Speaker 1: that I can feel safe. I've worked through a lot
Speaker 1: of this, and like I said, many many years, and
Speaker 1: now I'm coming to a new level of understanding and
Speaker 1: working through some things. But Eddie, my husband was in
Speaker 1: a bad mood about something, and I allowed myself and
Speaker 1: I had a real experience and embodied experience of not
Speaker 1: having to go into his bad mood to fix it.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'll just let him. He's gonna do
Speaker 1: his own thing whatever. I'm going to have a good day.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have I don't have to match his mood.
Speaker 1: And I felt strange. Number one and number two, I
Speaker 1: felt good. I was like, oh, because me matching his
Speaker 1: emotional state doesn't help either of us. It just and
Speaker 1: then he's out of it, and then I'm still in it.
Speaker 1: And then I feel resentment because all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: now I feel like I'm carrying it. For him and
Speaker 1: then he just he dejects from it, he feels better,
Speaker 1: and now I'm carrying it. And so that's basically been
Speaker 1: like the dance of my whole life and the way
Speaker 1: that I feel like I've been codependent because I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm somehow emotionally saving people and then carrying the
Speaker 1: weight of it, which is a shitty way to live
Speaker 1: once you especially once you have an embodied experience out
Speaker 1: of it, You're like, WHOA that that's a heavy heavy
Speaker 1: weight to carry it is. It's also not great for
Speaker 1: relationships because it really builds because you know, I'm obviously
Speaker 1: a recovering codependent, and it is a discipline. M I
Speaker 1: feel like it's a lot like stopping drinking right where
Speaker 1: it isn't just like oh good, I'm glad that's over right.
Speaker 1: You still have to mindfully because my nature would still
Speaker 1: be to fix the bad mood, to take on the
Speaker 1: bad mood too. I'm more about trying to change the
Speaker 1: bad mood right like where I'm like, what do you
Speaker 1: have to be sad about? We have everything? You should
Speaker 1: be grateful, you know, judging I'm I'm more mean about
Speaker 1: it when I fall into it, but I really work
Speaker 1: not to end, to be able to acknowledge, or I'll
Speaker 1: say to my husband if he's in a bad mood,
Speaker 1: and of course, fifteen years ago, that would then be
Speaker 1: my mood, or I'd be fixing. I'm able to say, hey,
Speaker 1: how can I best support you? Seem like you're bummed.
Speaker 1: He'll used to say something sarcastic, because he's an artist.
Speaker 1: He'd be like, if you could learn to draw. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: well I was being sincere and you're an asshole, so like,
Speaker 1: just no, exactly, let me take that over here and
Speaker 1: see you later. Totally, So he doesn't do that anymore.
Speaker 1: But you know, he'll say, no, it's I'm just in
Speaker 1: a mood. I'll be like, okay, but like you in
Speaker 1: being able to walk away and being like I am
Speaker 1: one person. My husband is a separate human being. It doesn't.
Speaker 1: It is such a childhood thing to feel responsible for
Speaker 1: the whole room, like I'll throw myself under the bus
Speaker 1: to make it better for others, or to avoid conflict
Speaker 1: or to not rock the boat, or to make sure
Speaker 1: everyone else is happy. But of course you see, and
Speaker 1: all of us get to our peak moment and and
Speaker 1: it looks different for me. I was diagnosed with cancer
Speaker 1: in my early thirties where and I have no doubt
Speaker 1: that there was some connection to my level of over functioning, overgiving, overdoing,
Speaker 1: feeling overly responsible for all of the humans on planet
Speaker 1: Earth right that I wouldn't stop, And so the universe
Speaker 1: was like, well, tapping her around the shoulder hasn't worked,
Speaker 1: so maybe throwing her down a flight of stairs will,
Speaker 1: which it did, thank God. Yes, all right, on that note,
Speaker 1: we are going to take a quick break, but we'll
Speaker 1: be right back. Welcome back, Loves. I am talking with
Speaker 1: Terry Cole about the fun wake up calls that we
Speaker 1: get from the universe. I had that experience the other
Speaker 1: day of being on stage. I did my first show
Speaker 1: out um in sixteen seventeen months. I haven't had time
Speaker 1: off like that and not entertaining people for my whole
Speaker 1: life basically, And I was so triggered walking back into this.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize how much my nervous system had actually
Speaker 1: like calm down until I walked back into it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, all the unhealthy things about this
Speaker 1: and and it was And it's interesting because I've had
Speaker 1: to cater to thousands and thousands of people in front
Speaker 1: of me and what what I think they're wanting? Like
Speaker 1: that was kind of the way that I was That's
Speaker 1: what I was taught to do, and it doesn't feel
Speaker 1: good anymore. Now It's like what do I have to give?
Speaker 1: What am I wanting? And then how can they be
Speaker 1: a part of that? And this is where it really
Speaker 1: hit me the other day, being on stage and being
Speaker 1: in front of people in the way that I can't
Speaker 1: cater like that anymore. And something that instantly came up
Speaker 1: for me is I'm done entertaining. I want to connect.
Speaker 1: And I see that as a through line through about
Speaker 1: my life, especially with my with my husband, with my friendships.
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm sick of entertaining. I want to connect
Speaker 1: wherever both of us are as separate, whole human beings,
Speaker 1: Let's connect from there, because otherwise otherwise I do. I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm entertaining people constantly. But you know, Len,
Speaker 1: this is like a perfect time and the trajectory of
Speaker 1: your evolution to bring boundaries in in a real way,
Speaker 1: because that's what you're talking about, Like I am making
Speaker 1: a different relationship with my audience is basically what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I want the connection and not the separation that entertainment
Speaker 1: can be right, like, you're over there and I'm over
Speaker 1: here making the connection. Not to mention, let's just establish
Speaker 1: quickly for those people who are listening and are like,
Speaker 1: I don't even know what freedom boundaries are because to
Speaker 1: do that, but we got into a conversation that just
Speaker 1: took the road all the way down. Yes, please do
Speaker 1: just keep going. Okay. So, according to me in the
Speaker 1: way that I teach it in the book, is boundaries
Speaker 1: are you knowing your preferences, your desires, your limits, and
Speaker 1: your deal breakers and having the ability to communicate those
Speaker 1: when you so choose, right, you don't have to, you
Speaker 1: want to. So those are the things, your preferences, your desires,
Speaker 1: your limits, and your deal breakers. They're the things that
Speaker 1: actually make you uniquely you and mine make me uniquely me.
Speaker 1: And so one of the biggest problems I saw when I,
Speaker 1: you know, I was in entertainment, you know, as an
Speaker 1: agent that became a psychotherapist. When I got into the
Speaker 1: psychotherapy world, besides my own boundary struggles and evolution, I
Speaker 1: saw that this lack of boundaries, even knowing what they are,
Speaker 1: lack of talking true as I call it was a
Speaker 1: frigging epidemic every person who came into my office, no
Speaker 1: matter why they were walking through the door. When I
Speaker 1: really followed the dots back to the pain point, it
Speaker 1: was there in a pity, you know, to say no
Speaker 1: when they wanted to say no, or to share their
Speaker 1: preference about something with someone. Like we were trained to
Speaker 1: believe that being easy is preferable. Right, you don't have
Speaker 1: a preference just you know me? I mean, think about
Speaker 1: all the phrases that people say, right, you know me,
Speaker 1: I'm easy. It's all good, is it? Though? Like? Why
Speaker 1: is having a preference not good? Like I don't get it,
Speaker 1: you know. So that's where we're going to start with
Speaker 1: boundaries and with talking true, because ultimately, if you don't
Speaker 1: share those things preferences, desires, limits, deal breakers with the
Speaker 1: people in your life, we're giving the people who we
Speaker 1: love the most corrupted intel or data about who we are.
Speaker 1: So how can anyone authentically love us when we're so
Speaker 1: busy keeping ourselves in a box or trying to be
Speaker 1: pleasing to everyone else, or do we even know who
Speaker 1: we are? And I think so many women end up
Speaker 1: in my office being like I'm fifty and I have
Speaker 1: no idea who I am because I love done his
Speaker 1: checkboxes my whole life. That's been an interesting ride for
Speaker 1: me and I as I was reading your book, I
Speaker 1: have yet to make my list of those. And you
Speaker 1: know what, I've found so much resistance when I've gone
Speaker 1: to do this in my life, to make my list
Speaker 1: of desires and needs, and I feel like I'm going
Speaker 1: to be taking up too much space when i create
Speaker 1: these lists, and then I think are these really mine?
Speaker 1: Or am I trying to still please someone within this list?
Speaker 1: And then you start to be so a meshed with
Speaker 1: the whole world basically that you don't know what's truly
Speaker 1: yours and what's not. But I do think like just
Speaker 1: my simple thing I want to entertain and I want
Speaker 1: to connect like that all of a sudden felt like
Speaker 1: a real truth. I feel like there's body wisdom in this,
Speaker 1: and like when it feels like you connect so deeply
Speaker 1: where it feels like for me it runs through my
Speaker 1: whole body. I know, like that's me yep, But imagine
Speaker 1: feeling that way all the time because we love that. Yes. Well, well,
Speaker 1: the more you do this, though, the more you see
Speaker 1: that as we honor our boundaries right. Because this is
Speaker 1: all about our relationship with ourselves. And even though we
Speaker 1: are raised to look outside of ourselves all the time
Speaker 1: to make sure everyone else is okay, the truth in
Speaker 1: life is that our relationship with ourselves right, that sets
Speaker 1: the bar for every other relationship that we have. So
Speaker 1: if we have a low opinion of ourselves, if we
Speaker 1: work ourselves to death, if we're always last on our
Speaker 1: own list, so to speak, inevitably we attract people who
Speaker 1: are takers because we are givers, and then eventually we
Speaker 1: are resentful. So when you have a better relationship to yourself,
Speaker 1: take better care of yourself. I don't mean you personally,
Speaker 1: I just mean in general. We are letting people know,
Speaker 1: oh hey, this is an appropriate way drawing boundaries is
Speaker 1: letting people know this is okay with me, this is
Speaker 1: not okay with me, right, And it's the most loving
Speaker 1: thing that you can do, because then the people in
Speaker 1: your life actually know who you are. They're not guessing
Speaker 1: it always, And then we're we end up presenting those
Speaker 1: people for getting it wrong and then for allowing really
Speaker 1: this relationship where their needs are being taken care of
Speaker 1: only and ours are ours are not, And it's painful recently,
Speaker 1: I've I've had a much better relationship with self. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that has come up for me
Speaker 1: so deeply is the amount of resentment that I have
Speaker 1: for the entire world. It's like and and to admit
Speaker 1: that what has been it's literally been over the past week.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I was in everything and everyone and having
Speaker 1: to do everything and this I mean, And my my
Speaker 1: therapist was like, yeah, I'm like, I'm glad you're angry,
Speaker 1: Like this is what I was trying to get to,
Speaker 1: Like we're getting somewhere, and I'm like, it doesn't feel
Speaker 1: like it's horrible, but it's true. When you can see
Speaker 1: that your needs have been you've been putting yourself last.
Speaker 1: You know, I can see now why I resent everything.
Speaker 1: But that next step, though, like I totally feel that,
Speaker 1: I totally feel that in this is a phase of healing,
Speaker 1: and I think that there's a really important phase coming
Speaker 1: up where we start mourning. Yeah, the way we wished
Speaker 1: it was we start we need to like honor that
Speaker 1: that things didn't turn out the way exactly as we've planned,
Speaker 1: or that we spent a lot of time. When I
Speaker 1: realized this about boundaries, I was like, oh, my God,
Speaker 1: like wasted the last fifteen years of my life, like
Speaker 1: dancing so fast, walking on eggshells, being exhausted, being resentful.
Speaker 1: I wish I had known this younger quote unquote, you know,
Speaker 1: but I needed to write about that journal, about that
Speaker 1: honor my sadness that I didn't have those skills sooner,
Speaker 1: so to speak. So with any transformation, in any change,
Speaker 1: it's important that we mourn. Sort of like you said,
Speaker 1: I'm resentful, but but again, most of the time under
Speaker 1: resentment is something else, right, there is resentment is an
Speaker 1: easier emotion, but probably it's really a secondary and probably
Speaker 1: sadness the primary emotion, you know what I mean? Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, I definitely know there's tons of sadness there
Speaker 1: that I've come up against around not having my needs
Speaker 1: met um by many different my parents, by by world. Recently,
Speaker 1: I just celebrated my year of my very first album,
Speaker 1: and to have to look back upon that was the
Speaker 1: has been really the first time I've ever looked back
Speaker 1: and truly appreciated my younger self and really had a
Speaker 1: very clear understanding of what I went through and not
Speaker 1: no longer in denial of of the challenges and the
Speaker 1: trauma that I've experienced over the last twenty five years,
Speaker 1: and it's been intense, but it's been it has been
Speaker 1: really liberating. And there has been a lot of grief
Speaker 1: that is coming up as I look back, and I
Speaker 1: think that that grief, like you're saying, is such an
Speaker 1: important part. So I feel like I'm not I'm no
Speaker 1: longer living in the fantasy of thinking that it can
Speaker 1: still be better, Like I can make that part of
Speaker 1: my life better. Right, there's a great and Lemo quote
Speaker 1: where she said, um forgiveness quote unquote is basically giving
Speaker 1: up hope for a better past. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I mean that that's I just butchered it. That's not
Speaker 1: exactly what it says, but the way she says it
Speaker 1: is quite brilliant, where it's like there's there's something profoundly
Speaker 1: um liberating can be in the acceptance of what was true, right,
Speaker 1: what actually happened, you know, And I think that many
Speaker 1: of us, you know, there's so much of the work
Speaker 1: that I do with boundaries and psychological health and mental
Speaker 1: wellness where I talk about going into the basement of
Speaker 1: your mind. So right, this is the your unconscious mind
Speaker 1: where we repress a lot of things. But there's information
Speaker 1: that's down there, and we're not just bringing up like
Speaker 1: painful crap for no reason. We're bringing up these things
Speaker 1: because if we don't honor them, they then inform our
Speaker 1: current life. We can't control the psychotherapeutic way the brain works,
Speaker 1: but we can honor what happened by writing about it,
Speaker 1: by honoring the kid that you were right, Like I
Speaker 1: think about different whether it's aged seven, thirteen, seventeen twenty one,
Speaker 1: all every age, all of us have injuries that happen
Speaker 1: in life, and when you're taught to like deny them,
Speaker 1: Like in my family that nobody was ever allowed to
Speaker 1: be mad. You know, it was like as long as
Speaker 1: everything was positive, you could talk about it. So I
Speaker 1: really learned to be like, if it's bad, just deny it,
Speaker 1: repress it, you know, sweep it under the rug. But
Speaker 1: of course that only works for so long, you know. Yeah, absolutely, Well,
Speaker 1: it's interesting when I think of boundaries, it's just been
Speaker 1: a bit intimidating my whole life because I think of boundaries,
Speaker 1: the only thing I really think of is like a
Speaker 1: wall between me and the world or a wall between
Speaker 1: me and other I feel like that's probably pretty common.
Speaker 1: How do we begin to have these boundaries that are
Speaker 1: more pliable, because that really is what we're looking for, right,
Speaker 1: Like more a way to not only like push everything out,
Speaker 1: but allow the good stuff to also penetrate. Right, you
Speaker 1: want healthy boundaries, right, So boundaries come in different forms, right,
Speaker 1: they come in so poorest boundaries or too malleable, rigid
Speaker 1: boundaries are too firm as you're describing. And I think
Speaker 1: that the myth that people have is that rigid boundaries
Speaker 1: are what healthy boundaries are, which is not true. So
Speaker 1: people think that it's like saying no and rejecting and
Speaker 1: confrontation and being mean and being stingy and being greedy
Speaker 1: and being selfish. I mean, I could keep going because
Speaker 1: I've heard so many from people like I'm afraid of this.
Speaker 1: I don't want them to think that when it comes
Speaker 1: to boundaries, and I'm like, listen, all we're talking about
Speaker 1: is starting with knowing who you are and starting to
Speaker 1: understand what your preferences, your desires, your limits, and your
Speaker 1: deal breakers are in life, knowing that you have a
Speaker 1: right to those things. And the reason I put them
Speaker 1: in categories is because your preference is not the same
Speaker 1: as a deal breaker. They are all different levels of
Speaker 1: boundaries and different levels of importance. Right a preference. Maybe
Speaker 1: I want to go to bed early and my husband
Speaker 1: wants to go to bed late. That's a preference. Maybe
Speaker 1: we can meet in the middle, maybe we can't, but
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get divorced over it. You know
Speaker 1: someone who's in recovery but then relapses, that might be
Speaker 1: more of a deal breaker. So part of it is
Speaker 1: understanding that there's no like across the board. This is
Speaker 1: healthy boundaries. Each situation is individual, and I think the
Speaker 1: easiest place to start is to just stop the auto yes,
Speaker 1: because a lot of us are people pleasers. A lot
Speaker 1: of us don't even feel like we have the right
Speaker 1: to take time to think about it. If someone asked something,
Speaker 1: you're like, right, yep, okay, good, I'm there, And that
Speaker 1: is sabotaging your ability to have a good boundary or
Speaker 1: to be honest. So that's the first step that I
Speaker 1: have people do, which is to just buy time for
Speaker 1: the next three to five days. No matter what anyone
Speaker 1: asks you to do, you cannot give an immediate response.
Speaker 1: Because we've also trained people in our life, We've trained
Speaker 1: them to expect us to get back to them immediately.
Speaker 1: We we don't even feel like we can take a day,
Speaker 1: many of us. And it depends on what your boundary
Speaker 1: dysfunction is. Right, Some people are loners. Right did you
Speaker 1: take I don't think you did. I meant to send
Speaker 1: you my boundary quiz. It's just called boundary dot com.
Speaker 1: So if anyone wants to take it, it's boundary quiz
Speaker 1: dot com. And this will give you the arc type
Speaker 1: that your most and it's only thirteen questions. It's super
Speaker 1: quick to do. But you know it. You know what
Speaker 1: the answers are when you're like, oh yeah, totally me,
Speaker 1: totally me. Because when you get the arch type, you
Speaker 1: can either be like, let's say, the chameleon, push over
Speaker 1: the peacekeeper, or like the ice queen or the loner.
Speaker 1: I feel like, depending on the situation, I could be
Speaker 1: one of all of those. You know, It's true, were
Speaker 1: usually more than one, right, right, but we almost always
Speaker 1: have one predominant because a chameleon, which is someone who
Speaker 1: kind of just goes along to get along with like
Speaker 1: what other people are doing, is a bit different than
Speaker 1: a peacekeeper who is actively putting out fires that are
Speaker 1: not they didn't start and are not theirs, but they
Speaker 1: want to make sure so you'll see there there is
Speaker 1: a distinction, and I think that understanding that is a
Speaker 1: really helpful place to start. But if you're someone who
Speaker 1: feels like you have the disease to please other people,
Speaker 1: or that you know you have this people pleasing syndrome,
Speaker 1: and if you feel like you're codependent, meaning you know,
Speaker 1: think about what is codependency. It's an overt or covert
Speaker 1: bid to control the outcomes of other people. Right. We
Speaker 1: don't want our friend to get into that terrible relationship,
Speaker 1: or we don't want our partner to make that big
Speaker 1: mistake we think they're going to make. And yet, when
Speaker 1: you're not codependent and you have healthy boundaries, you know
Speaker 1: that those things are the people you love. That there's
Speaker 1: to decide. It doesn't mean you can't brainstorm with or
Speaker 1: talk about it with them. But we're not auto advice
Speaker 1: giving all the time, constantly making suggestions and doing more
Speaker 1: than we need to, because all of that stuff is codependency.
Speaker 1: So I say, let's just start by stopping the auto
Speaker 1: yes buying time, which can be super easy. You just say,
Speaker 1: oh my god, thank you so much for thinking of me.
Speaker 1: Can I let you know by Friday. Yeah. And if
Speaker 1: they go, no, I need to know sooner. You're like, well,
Speaker 1: if you need to know now, what to know because
Speaker 1: I don't make instant decisions. And but if you can
Speaker 1: wait till Thursday, that's like, you know, we can negotiate
Speaker 1: for what it is we want to do. That sounds
Speaker 1: like me deciding on whether or not I want to
Speaker 1: do a show, like I'll I'll get an offer, and
Speaker 1: they're like, they need to know today. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I guess it's a now totally because you're like, so,
Speaker 1: you know what better I have to say. I've gotten
Speaker 1: I've gotten much better with my boundaries. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I think your book really did point out so many places,
Speaker 1: which is great. I mean that's I'm open to seeing
Speaker 1: all the places in which I've I've yet to grow
Speaker 1: in these areas, and I think this is probably the
Speaker 1: last place for me because I feel so I've learned
Speaker 1: so well how to be a people. Please are like,
Speaker 1: I've gotten it down. I've gotten it down on such
Speaker 1: a large scale. Being down with this downtime during COVID,
Speaker 1: like it's actually given me a lot of us a
Speaker 1: reset point. And I'm feeling like I don't have to
Speaker 1: jump back into like all of these yeses, and it's there.
Speaker 1: There is an internal like spaciousness that comes along with
Speaker 1: that that feels so good. As I'm thinking about because
Speaker 1: I really am going to go take that quiz that
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna do my list of preferences and desires
Speaker 1: and deal breakers. But how do you determine what the
Speaker 1: differences between a preference and a desire. A preference is
Speaker 1: something that is not that serious. I prefer coffee over tea. God,
Speaker 1: I prefer a shower over time. I have a preference.
Speaker 1: You know, you go out to your deciding to go
Speaker 1: out to dinner. You know, I think I feel like
Speaker 1: having this eat. That's a preference. That's how your partners like,
Speaker 1: oh no, please, I'm to have such a hanker for
Speaker 1: this other kind of food. You could be like, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll have that other kind of food maybe, you know.
Speaker 1: So preference is less serious. I find it with desires,
Speaker 1: they're they're bigger things. You may have a desire to
Speaker 1: live somewhere else. You may have a desire to change careers.
Speaker 1: You may have a desire to sort of renegotiate what's
Speaker 1: going on within your marriage or your friendships. So desires
Speaker 1: are a little bit more important, I think. And then
Speaker 1: we move into the limits, which are the things you're like, no,
Speaker 1: I do not this is this is a limit for me.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that. But then a deal
Speaker 1: breaker is something that is a total non negotia, right, absolutely,
Speaker 1: all right, we are going to take a quick breather,
Speaker 1: but we'll be right back with more wisdom from Terry Cole.
Speaker 1: Welcome back, loves. We are discussing how boundaries can actually
Speaker 1: make or break healthy relationships. As we begin to set
Speaker 1: these boundaries is and we began to train the other
Speaker 1: is in our life to treat us in a different way. Obviously,
Speaker 1: that change and that shift is going to cause a
Speaker 1: lot of ripples. What do you find people come up
Speaker 1: against the most one are the most the biggest challenges
Speaker 1: in their relationships. And as we start to shift these dynamics,
Speaker 1: what are some of the ways in which we can
Speaker 1: possibly make these shifts a little bit smoother. Yes, Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. Yes, when you're changing the dance, right,
Speaker 1: every relationship is like a dance, So your partner is
Speaker 1: going to notice that you're changing something. Usually so The
Speaker 1: first thing is to be prepared that people are going
Speaker 1: to notice and that they will feel threatened by you changing.
Speaker 1: So that's okay. Like, if you're a people pleaser, you've
Speaker 1: got to get that it's okay for someone to not
Speaker 1: like what you're doing in this moment. For someone to
Speaker 1: not like that you've decided you're no longer going to
Speaker 1: be doing the grown kids laundry at home or whatever
Speaker 1: the thing is, people will be up in arms like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, what do you mean you always did
Speaker 1: it this way? Okay, well I'm changing that. What I
Speaker 1: see the most is once we realize we need to
Speaker 1: change something, there is such a desire to make a
Speaker 1: big announcement about it, to like get a megaphone and
Speaker 1: be like, bitches, everything is going to change. I feel
Speaker 1: like that right there with you in my life right now,
Speaker 1: so please help me out with this. So we don't
Speaker 1: want to do that, Like the megaphone telling everyone there's
Speaker 1: a new boundary share in town is not that helpful
Speaker 1: because that is the codependent part that feels anxious, and
Speaker 1: we just want to discharge some of that anxiety by
Speaker 1: being like, I want to let you know it's all changing.
Speaker 1: What really works, though, is to change things slowly, one
Speaker 1: next right action at a time. So we start with
Speaker 1: our preferences. If you're someone who wouldn't normally share your preferences,
Speaker 1: we do it. If here's someone who always shares your preferences,
Speaker 1: because your boundaries are more rigid and you're bossing the
Speaker 1: hell out of everyone and everything has got to be
Speaker 1: your way. Instead of asserting your preferences more, I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask you to step back a little bit because
Speaker 1: that is a fear driven response as well. Never sharing
Speaker 1: them and over sharing them two sides of the same coin.
Speaker 1: The coin is disordered boundaries. But we're doing it one
Speaker 1: situation at a time. You can show the people in
Speaker 1: your life that you can stay lovingly connected to them
Speaker 1: and still stand in your strength and your boundary. So
Speaker 1: I would say to someone, whether it was my mother
Speaker 1: who was upset about something or whoever, I see that
Speaker 1: you're upset that I'm no longer going to host Christmas
Speaker 1: in my whatever whatever the thing is, And I love
Speaker 1: you and I'm sad that you're upset, and yet this
Speaker 1: is what I need to do for myself. So Vic
Speaker 1: and I are going away during Christmas. So I am
Speaker 1: glad that you know. I expect you to respect the boundary,
Speaker 1: but I also understand so we can celebrate the week before,
Speaker 1: let's celebrate the week after whatever, so I don't have
Speaker 1: to be mad. Part of it is we cannot be
Speaker 1: so thin skinned and reactionary that the moment we get
Speaker 1: pushed back back in the day when you were a
Speaker 1: total code of bender, or when I was, I could
Speaker 1: immediately be that chameleon that moved into changing my message
Speaker 1: to make sure that they were not upset about what
Speaker 1: I was doing. Right Like, the moment I got pushed back,
Speaker 1: I'd be like, no, no, you misunderstood me. I would
Speaker 1: like to be like what I said was what I
Speaker 1: meant was. So we're not doing that because we can't
Speaker 1: be that thin skinned. It's going to take time to
Speaker 1: change these dances. So here's the thing. It's okay to
Speaker 1: be uncomfortable when you start to draw new boundaries, when
Speaker 1: you start to speak up or talk true, I like
Speaker 1: to say in a different way, there's a part of
Speaker 1: you that's gonna want to take that boundary back so bad,
Speaker 1: Like you're gonna so much want to call them back
Speaker 1: and be like forget it. It's fun. I can work
Speaker 1: on New Years whatever or whatever. The thing is right,
Speaker 1: We're not doing that. So I have a rule in
Speaker 1: the book. We have a forty eight hour rule where
Speaker 1: you're gonna be okay, You're just gonna up your self
Speaker 1: care even though you feel guilty, you feel bad, do
Speaker 1: you think you're a rotten human being? All of that
Speaker 1: is an amplified response to changing. It is the child
Speaker 1: within you that is totally afraid they're going to be
Speaker 1: in trouble. You're not in trouble, and I promise you,
Speaker 1: after forty eight hours, you do will not want to
Speaker 1: take that boundary back. Absolutely. I just had this whole
Speaker 1: experience with my mother and setting a boundary with her,
Speaker 1: and I had such grief after it. I cried for
Speaker 1: like twenty four hours, and I was like, I'm there
Speaker 1: was a piece at me that was like, I'm the
Speaker 1: most awful person. This is my mother. How could I
Speaker 1: do us to her? How could I hurt her? And then,
Speaker 1: like you're saying about forty hours later, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I just went through that whole process and I feel
Speaker 1: really good and now I feel like I'm standing on
Speaker 1: my own two feet a little more as an adult woman.
Speaker 1: It really does take. Forty eight hours is a great tool.
Speaker 1: It is a great tool. It gives some space. And
Speaker 1: like you're saying, if after forty eight hours we feel
Speaker 1: the need to go back on that, I think then
Speaker 1: there's something that we should be reevaluating that in our
Speaker 1: boundary in the first place. So yeah, for hours. I
Speaker 1: gotta tell you. At a time, women in my courses,
Speaker 1: people who get in touch with me who have been
Speaker 1: reading the book, they're like, it's amazing, And what kind
Speaker 1: of blows people's minds, Like I'm thinking, like, what is
Speaker 1: the feedback that I get the most when people start
Speaker 1: this process is how readily others except their boundaries. We
Speaker 1: always start with lower priority people because it would be
Speaker 1: hard to start with the mother's right because they're that's hard,
Speaker 1: or even the partners, that's hard because these are primary
Speaker 1: v I P s in our life. So we start
Speaker 1: with lower priority people, like whoever, whoever it is, whether
Speaker 1: it's your colorist or your mail carrier or whoever. If
Speaker 1: you have a preferencey video of something you'd like to say,
Speaker 1: if your lunch comes and it's not what you're breaking,
Speaker 1: order to send it back, do the things out in
Speaker 1: the world that you wouldn't normally be doing, because that
Speaker 1: starts to set you up to be like okay, And
Speaker 1: the feedback is that people are surprisingly cool right with
Speaker 1: the boundaries that, of course the person setting them was
Speaker 1: positive that there was going to be a big brawl,
Speaker 1: the world was going to stop spinning on its access,
Speaker 1: they were going to spontaneously light into flames, and that
Speaker 1: did not happen. So that's amazing, And then you get
Speaker 1: more confident. Like you said, forty eight hours later, you
Speaker 1: felt better. We can still say it bums me out.
Speaker 1: I wish, I wish my mom didn't feel that way,
Speaker 1: and yet this is still the right thing for me
Speaker 1: to do for me and that has to be our
Speaker 1: top priority. And we've been so trained to think that
Speaker 1: that's being selfish, and the reality is you do. Really,
Speaker 1: if we want something valuable to give to the people
Speaker 1: in our life who we love, we can't give it
Speaker 1: from an empty bucket. We can't give it by checking
Speaker 1: boxes and being bitter, because that's what that is. The
Speaker 1: end result of disordered boundaries is being angry with other people.
Speaker 1: Instead of focusing on our inability to say no, we
Speaker 1: focus on Betty's entitlement or Bob's behavior. When you know
Speaker 1: that you can say no, that you're not doing what
Speaker 1: doesn't work for you in your life, and that you
Speaker 1: can do this lovingly and with kindness and with ease
Speaker 1: and with grace. I mean eventually, like in the beginning
Speaker 1: it might be messy, but you'll get there, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, absolutely, it's basically the projection. Instead
Speaker 1: of dealing with, like you're saying, your inability to say
Speaker 1: no and how uncomfortable it is for you, you project
Speaker 1: that anger and frustration out onto the rest of the world. Yes,
Speaker 1: I understand that very well. That is correct. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: this is I love this conversation because I feel like
Speaker 1: there's such power and strengthen it. It's interesting even you
Speaker 1: were saying how we've learned that selfishness is bad. I
Speaker 1: look at your even the title of your book boundary Boss.
Speaker 1: I was giggling to myself this morning because I was
Speaker 1: thinking in the past, for me, that would have been
Speaker 1: like boundary bitch, Like you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: that's what the what I think of when I say,
Speaker 1: when you put boundaries and boss into one, you know,
Speaker 1: one little couple there, it's I think of, Oh, she's
Speaker 1: a bit like that's how we've been trained, and it's
Speaker 1: so beautiful to be able to and I think such
Speaker 1: a gift to the self, and also like you're saying
Speaker 1: to everyone around you, to be able to come into
Speaker 1: a play where you can lovingly give direction and the
Speaker 1: way to love me. Yes, it's really what it is.
Speaker 1: It's that something it is. And why do we make
Speaker 1: the people in our life guests because they always freaking
Speaker 1: get it wrong, and not because they're idiots, because they're
Speaker 1: not us right right, and they're not mind readers. No,
Speaker 1: So it's so much even if you just when I
Speaker 1: used to counsel couples, which I absolutely hated, but when
Speaker 1: I did do it, just improve I could to myself.
Speaker 1: It was so stressful to me personally anyway. I would
Speaker 1: say to the husbands and this is like heteronormative, that's
Speaker 1: who the who the clientele was. So the husbands would
Speaker 1: complain they they wanted, you know, more sex. The women
Speaker 1: would complain they wanted more help and they didn't want
Speaker 1: their husbands fixing them, and they just were like, can
Speaker 1: this person ever just listen to me without like making
Speaker 1: a suggestion I'm not going to take. So it really
Speaker 1: boiled it down to teaching the husbands to say, hey, babe,
Speaker 1: how can I best support you? Would be great. How
Speaker 1: about just asking her? And then I would say to
Speaker 1: the wives, and then it's your job to share, how
Speaker 1: is that person best supporting you? Make me a cup
Speaker 1: of tea, sit down and talk to me. Wonderful around Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's lots of ways that you could
Speaker 1: write and support the person. And I said to the husbands,
Speaker 1: you know, you think that you want more physical intimacy,
Speaker 1: But I'm telling you, if you looked at the act
Speaker 1: of thinking about your wife when you're not with her
Speaker 1: doing the things that you know she wants you to
Speaker 1: do around the house without her asking you eleven times,
Speaker 1: think of that as for a play, because that's how
Speaker 1: it's going to impact her. The more she has to
Speaker 1: harangue you, the less thought about she feels by you
Speaker 1: during the day, not when you're looking to get laid,
Speaker 1: like when you're actually just you know, out in your life.
Speaker 1: That's that, Oh my god, so simple, that's so true.
Speaker 1: Like Okay, I think I can do that. Just take
Speaker 1: out the damn garbage without her asking, and she might
Speaker 1: want to do you would be all right love, and
Speaker 1: on that inspiring note, We're going to pause very quick break,
Speaker 1: but we'll be right back. Hello friends. Terry was just
Speaker 1: breaking down how different reactions and our day to day
Speaker 1: lives can set us on the path clearer boundaries. I
Speaker 1: want to shift just a little bit to what you
Speaker 1: call boundary destroyers. When I got to this piece of
Speaker 1: the book, I was like, WHOA, I have a few
Speaker 1: of these in my life and a few of them
Speaker 1: that aren't going anywhere, and so can you describe what
Speaker 1: a boundary destroyer is? First off, sure, I did a
Speaker 1: whole chapter on this because it is very common. So
Speaker 1: these are people who are emotional predators. There are ootional manipulators.
Speaker 1: It could be intentional, it could be unintentional. It could
Speaker 1: be these cluster b personality disorders like narcissistic personality disorder,
Speaker 1: by polar histrionic, oppositional. There's a whole bunch that go
Speaker 1: into one sort of group. So what I wanted the
Speaker 1: reader to understand is that everything that I teach you
Speaker 1: up unto that point does not apply two boundary destroyers,
Speaker 1: because the rules don't apply to boundary destroyers because they
Speaker 1: are incapable. These personalities that I'm talking about incapable of
Speaker 1: really taking in another person. They don't have that. You know,
Speaker 1: if you think about narcissistic personality disorder, we talk about
Speaker 1: there's an in um, their incapable of having real empathy
Speaker 1: for others. It's like scary, sad, but it's true. So
Speaker 1: but allowed of people with these personality disorders and with
Speaker 1: these these challenges can really seem like they can pretend
Speaker 1: like they can do this, and yet everything is a
Speaker 1: manipulation to their end, whatever it is that they want.
Speaker 1: And so it's very important to how I break down
Speaker 1: the chapter is sharing with the reader what are the
Speaker 1: sort of the biggest tools that boundary destroyers used to
Speaker 1: destroy our boundaries. So you have gas lighting, right, which
Speaker 1: you know has become kind of popularized, where it's somebody
Speaker 1: basically denying your reality, trying to really trying to make
Speaker 1: you doubt your own sanity. There is love bombing, where
Speaker 1: it's like just pouring on the compliments. And you know,
Speaker 1: anyone who's been in a relationship with a narcissist knows
Speaker 1: what this is. It's too good to be true because
Speaker 1: you're the most amazing thing and sex is unbelievable, and
Speaker 1: they want to fly to Paris for dinner, and they
Speaker 1: can't wait to take you to a wedding, Like and
Speaker 1: they asked you to go to wedding and it's not
Speaker 1: for like two years. You're like, oh my god, we're
Speaker 1: totally getting like druss me if it seems too good
Speaker 1: to be true. With love bombing, it's there's also an
Speaker 1: accelerated timeline, like you met in like in three weeks,
Speaker 1: they're like, we're moving in together. You're like, oh my god, Okay,
Speaker 1: well this is moving kind of fast. And someone was like,
Speaker 1: but how do I know if that person I met
Speaker 1: and it happened really fast, how do I know that
Speaker 1: that was, you know, love bombing? I was like, Hi,
Speaker 1: if it's five years later and the person is still
Speaker 1: good to you and you're still things are amazing, it
Speaker 1: wasn't love bombing. It was just a relationship that moved fast.
Speaker 1: Love bombing and this cycle of abuse, it goes from
Speaker 1: you're the most amazing thing to some kind of situation
Speaker 1: where now you fall out of favor with the narcissist.
Speaker 1: Then they discard you. There they're rejecting you. You're you're
Speaker 1: working over time to get back in their good graces,
Speaker 1: and then the cycle happens all over again. It can
Speaker 1: happen weekly, it can happen every four years, but it's painful.
Speaker 1: The whole thing is painful. So you want to be
Speaker 1: aware of psychologically, what are the tricks acting that they're
Speaker 1: concerned about you, right, So if you say something that
Speaker 1: they don't like, you're pointing out their crappy behavior and something.
Speaker 1: They'll be like, but I'm really worried about you. You're
Speaker 1: you're really off the rails right now. I don't know,
Speaker 1: are you okay? Oh yes, oh am I okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: You just don't want me to talk about the thing
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. So now you're gonna put me on
Speaker 1: the defensive. But here's the thing. If you read this
Speaker 1: chapter and you get really well versed in these tricks
Speaker 1: of the trade from these master manipulators, you will not fall.
Speaker 1: You won't be such a victim to them in your
Speaker 1: life because this isn't just about romantic relationships. This is friendships,
Speaker 1: this is work relationships, this is people on your team,
Speaker 1: this is you know what I mean? Because the cracked
Speaker 1: pot finds the correct lid, which is why we want
Speaker 1: to heal these childhood wounds. Whatever they may be, so
Speaker 1: that because a lot of times we're not only acting
Speaker 1: these things out or playing them out in our romantic lives.
Speaker 1: Obviously we have relationships with lots of people where this
Speaker 1: can be acted out. But there's lots of things that
Speaker 1: you can do to not allow these types of personalities
Speaker 1: to manipulate you. Stepping back, yes, drawing boundaries, but we
Speaker 1: do it differently with boundary destroyers. It's more about removing
Speaker 1: their access to our most tender heart, which is challenging.
Speaker 1: It can be very, very challenging. And I've noticed that
Speaker 1: I know all of these things. But then when I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'll open the door and things, will you think that
Speaker 1: people have changed because they their covert ways of making
Speaker 1: you think that they have changed is they're so good
Speaker 1: at it. I've stepped back before from some people and
Speaker 1: been like yours, that's amazing, Like I'm i am you
Speaker 1: should win an Oscar for that performance. Like there's something
Speaker 1: in me that's still going back and opening that door
Speaker 1: and opening that boundary just enough to be hurt again.
Speaker 1: And this chapter was so eye opening because I see
Speaker 1: so much of this, but I've never had words for it.
Speaker 1: So for you to be able to put it into
Speaker 1: words and to really like be able to see exactly
Speaker 1: what's going on was so so helpful. I highly recommend
Speaker 1: people get your book because I it's really been super
Speaker 1: super helpful. I love all of the bonus information that
Speaker 1: you have for people on this book. For people to
Speaker 1: really get clear and in touch with themselves, I think
Speaker 1: is so important, Like this is foundational for us to
Speaker 1: live happy, healthy lives. Yes, it is and self determined.
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for your kind words, and
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that this is I just want to reach
Speaker 1: as many people as possible who are suffering in a
Speaker 1: way that they could learn these skills and you your
Speaker 1: joy will be exponentially higher and your suffering will be
Speaker 1: exponentially lower. You know, Yeah, what if there was one
Speaker 1: take way that you want people to walk away with
Speaker 1: from this at the beginning of their boundary boss journey.
Speaker 1: What's the beginning? I know they can go take your
Speaker 1: boundary quiz, but is there anything else that where people
Speaker 1: should begin. Well, here's the thing. The way that begin
Speaker 1: with the book. Go to Boundary boss book dot com.
Speaker 1: Begin with the book because I literally start at the
Speaker 1: very beginning and I walk you through every single step
Speaker 1: of the way. I also have a course where I actually,
Speaker 1: in real life walk people through and that starts and
Speaker 1: I think it's starting in the third week in September
Speaker 1: this year, where it's live right, so people can get
Speaker 1: their actual questions answered. And there's a whole group element
Speaker 1: that's amazing. But part of it is no that you
Speaker 1: can do this. You got this, and I got you
Speaker 1: like I know you, I was you. There's nothing to
Speaker 1: be ashamed of. You shouldn't know this already. Think about
Speaker 1: it like learning a foreign language. You don't feel guilty
Speaker 1: or bad or ashamed of yourself if you weren't just
Speaker 1: suddenly fluent in another language. That's being fluent in boundaries.
Speaker 1: It is a language. And I give you a whole
Speaker 1: chapter on just scripts, which is right. I'm so going
Speaker 1: to be using them, by the way, Yes, please please
Speaker 1: do I love it. But you can do it, is
Speaker 1: all I'm saying. You can do it, yes, And thank
Speaker 1: you for mentioning that shame piece, because I know there's
Speaker 1: so much shame around this for so many of us.
Speaker 1: So I'd love that if you you wouldn't be ashamed
Speaker 1: learning foreign language. So that's what we're doing. Just simple, correct,
Speaker 1: let's do it together. Yes, I always ask my guests
Speaker 1: that I have one about five songs in their life.
Speaker 1: I call him the Holy five that you're either into
Speaker 1: right now or that you've just loved your entire life,
Speaker 1: and why so bring it out? All right? Here we go.
Speaker 1: First of all, I wrote ten, but I'm always going
Speaker 1: to tell you five because I was like, I can't.
Speaker 1: And when I realized, can I just say what happened
Speaker 1: for me? When I did this yesterday? I was like,
Speaker 1: hi year old, Like literally, I went into my I tunes,
Speaker 1: I was like the top most listened to. I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: they've been the same for like twenty years. That just
Speaker 1: made you love them so much? I do, all right,
Speaker 1: So Marvin Gaye and Tammy Terrell, you're all I need
Speaker 1: to get by. Oh yeah, Areatha Franklin natural one the
Speaker 1: day I'm mad? So you are the key to Lappy
Speaker 1: piece of Black, Barbara Streisan or Luther v androws how
Speaker 1: it's not a Home. I love that it's There's not
Speaker 1: but blue, but I love both those versions. And Barbara's
Speaker 1: goes into one less bell to answer, so good. Um, Okay,
Speaker 1: Then we have Joan Osborne's cover of Dolly Pardons. Do
Speaker 1: I ever cross your mind? What I've never heard that?
Speaker 1: That's so cool? And do you live this feelings and
Speaker 1: love we shared when you are with me? Do you, Darling?
Speaker 1: I just wonder, do I cross your mind? It's a
Speaker 1: compilation of all other artists covering Dolly's stuff on the
Speaker 1: album is called Just Because I'm a Woman, Uh huh,
Speaker 1: and there's so many I also love Code of Many
Speaker 1: Colors on there, and Shanayan does an amazing version of
Speaker 1: that from but What It's so although we had no
Speaker 1: money here, what trenches? That could be my Code of
Speaker 1: Many Colors? Mamma, thank you, thank you so fun. I
Speaker 1: so appreciate you caring about your mental health and all
Speaker 1: the good that you're doing in the world helping people
Speaker 1: find mental health wellness. Thank you. I have um. I
Speaker 1: really did thoroughly enjoy your book and I'm going to
Speaker 1: be diving in more so. Thank you for thank you
Speaker 1: for bringing this to the world. I think we all
Speaker 1: are in desperate need of it right on. Thanks my love,
Speaker 1: have a good day to be continued. Yes, I'll talk
Speaker 1: to you soon and that ends this boundary building episode.
Speaker 1: I'm holy human. Thank you all so much for spending
Speaker 1: your time with me as always, and please post your
Speaker 1: thoughts wherever you're listening. I'd love to see if this
Speaker 1: land is the view. Also, if you feel this conversation
Speaker 1: could benefit a friend, please feel free to share this
Speaker 1: with them too. Until next time. On our next Holy Human,
Speaker 1: I'll be joined by my friend Kyle Cease. He is
Speaker 1: a man who left comedy to bring more happiness and
Speaker 1: peace into the world, and I am so glad that
Speaker 1: he did because you will not want to miss his
Speaker 1: wonderful way of merging laughter and spirituality. Such a fantastic guy,
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that we have met through the podcast.
Speaker 1: He's become a friend of mine. So until then, I
Speaker 1: wish you all love, take care of each other, love yourself,
Speaker 1: love everyone around you, and I'll see you soon. Holy
Speaker 1: Human with Me Leanne Rhymes is a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio