WEBVTT - City pivots to Labour as Truss project implodes 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.480 What is it with the nineties heads. It's like, I 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.720 don't know who chooses the playlist is on her kind 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:25.920 of mixtape when she was one Dave. During the UK 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.160 general election the Labor Party, that was a Labor Party 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:34.120 song as their campaign theme. Remember it well, but now 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:38.200 listen to the Tories playing it in Birmingham. Yeah something 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:42.680 once Labor turned Tori. Yes, like being, for instance, the 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:47.280 party of Business. Maybe it's the Labor Party now who 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.240 are more business friendly. Yeah, we'll trying to explore whether 0:00:50.280 --> 0:01:01.400 you can interchange them, especially in this chaos. So the 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.319 Tory Party conference in birminghams RAP this week and you know, 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.039 our reporters on the ground tell us that it was 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.920 one of the most chaotic and kind of disrupted conferences 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:13.800 that anyone can remember. Yeah, we have a great piece 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.160 by Kittie Donaldson really going through the atmosphere at the 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.800 Tory Party conference and how different it was from Labor 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.800 And you know, this is not the kind of celebration 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.279 of a new administration, bearing in mind they're all turning 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:28.640 up there with a record lead for the opposition neighbor party. 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.200 I'm Franzi Laqua and I'm David Merritt. And this is 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.160 in the City, Bloomberg's podcast, connecting you to the stories 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.319 at the heart of the City of London. So this 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.759 week did Liz Trust's rally cry work for the City 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.640 of London. Well, it's been a wild first month for 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.120 Liz Truss's government, so it's seen at least three hundred 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:55.520 billion pounds wiped out from the combined value of stark 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.360 and bond markets in the UK. So we're going to 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.040 start with a conversation with Bloomberg's editor in chief and 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.880 our boss, John Borait. He was in Birmingham and then 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.920 flew here to New York and he was there for 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.200 the start of the conference testing the temperature um of 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.760 the Tories. Always high stakes when you interview you and 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.040 Lord Billy Moore hea Um, the former chair of Confederation 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.440 of British Industry, active Cross Bench member of the House 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.560 of Lords, Chancellor of the University of Birmingham and founder 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.680 of the global br brand Cobra Beer Dave. I also 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:29.760 spoke with Tina Lee, the chief executive for the u 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:33.320 kN Ireland at Deutsche Bank, and I asked her first 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.799 what she made of her meeting with the Chancellor Quasi 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.440 Quartang and also whether she put more investment in the UK. 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.440 Um John, you were, you were in Birmingham on the 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.840 ground this week. I mean we're in America now. I 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:52.799 mean that the whole thing seemed pretty bad, lurching from 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:54.640 bad headline to next. Was that? What what did it 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:56.480 felt like on the ground. I think he felt like that. 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.760 I think it felt like a party that thought the 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:02.520 things we're going to get better and they've ended up 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:07.640 being pretty disastrously worse. And I think the underlying big 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.480 problem for the Tories is that the Tories have always 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.799 been the party of business, of sound money, of all 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.680 the things like that, and put the problem with the 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:22.760 mini budget is that it basically destroyed or certainly severely 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.239 damaged that reputation for sound money and for being good 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.200 with business. And the problem about those things is that 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.040 it opens up much more room for labor. And I 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:36.760 think a degree to which this was an own goal. Yes, Sarah, 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.560 extraneous factors. Yes, there's the fact you've got the war 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:43.720 in Ukraine. Yes, there's central banks everywhere raising interest book rates. 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.040 But the idea you're going to push through a pro 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:52.280 growth budget, a pro growth agenda when there is real problems, 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.640 real problems in terms of interest rates. In particular, it 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.880 looks ever harder. I mean. Listening to her speech, she 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.280 categorized any one who disagree with her in quasi quote 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:08.000 as the anti growth coalition. Economic growth makes us strong 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.840 at home and strong abroad, and we need an economically 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:18.000 sound and secure United Kingdom, and that will mean challenging 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:22.160 those who try to stop growth. I will not allow 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:29.720 the anti growth coalition to hold us back. So if 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.839 you don't believe that slashing taxes is going to goose 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.920 the economy, you're somehow against and it has I think 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.159 that's very difficult. I think the most interesting thing to me, 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.719 almost in the past ten days is the number of 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:48.440 natural capitalists, entrepreneurs, people in the city, a wide variety 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.520 of people from whom I've heard nothing other than enthusiasm 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.960 for cutting taxes. And in general these people do want 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.920 to cut taxes. Who were appalled by the forty to 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:02.320 forty p of forty five p for top reduction because 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.760 for two reasons. Firstly, they did actually strangely feel quite 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.120 guilty about it. I thought it was wrong when other 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:12.279 people were going through great poverty and that all the 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:16.080 deprivations of energy. But Secondly, they thought it just wasn't 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:19.600 it was making the whole thing unsellable, And so it 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.360 built on politically to kind of incompetent there, right, just 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.600 not it was immensely incompetent to try and do it 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.400 without the O b R numbers, without all these different things, 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.640 and it gave the impression that this was sort of 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:34.839 amateur Thatcherism, right, So that kind of fractiousness in the cabinet. 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.280 We've had various members of the cabinet off the records, 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.960 turning our reporters. You know that the project, the Trust 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.680 project is kind of doomed, and this conference was supposed 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.159 to be about kind of setting her up for success, 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:47.760 but it seems to have done the opposite, hasn't it. 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:49.719 This is gonna be in a situation where you have 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:53.080 two categories. You have some of the big beasts from 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:58.080 the Johnson era who are very cross with what happens. 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.120 Grant shots, Michael go all, these people who made it 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.720 extremely clear that they didn't regard the budget as conservative, 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:09.120 and actually quite a lot of credibility said that Margaret 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.800 Thatcher wouldn't have either. So that was part one. But 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.720 then secondly, even within the cabinet, cabinet, and you are 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.680 talking about a relatively small gene pool of people who 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.040 who are in that particular zone. Even within that there 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.520 are people who across who are jumping around the place somewhere, 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.599 and at least privately we'll talk about you know, this 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.200 can't go on like this, John, Do you think there 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.120 was a belief I guess during COVID that some of 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.719 the policies put in place by the previous Tory government 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.520 that there were too much like Labor, that there was 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.000 a confusion between the parties and what they stood for. 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.080 I think there was. I think that's a legitimate point. 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.440 I mean, basically to the extent that the Conservatives have 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.760 generally been people who were on the small state side 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:49.760 of the equation and Labor has been on the big state. 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:54.799 What happened during COVID, as does during most wars. Remember 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.240 Winston Churchill was Prime Minister during the Second World War 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:02.360 when Britain um spent way beyond its means. But during 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:06.640 wars that people understand the need for bigger government. It's 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.920 afterwards that it gets harder. What's what's quite interesting is 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.600 if you look back, you look at the current rhetoric 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.080 around the energy crisis, where what the government effectively is saying, look, 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:19.040 please let us help um, let us give you money, 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:23.600 limit your petrol bill, limit your gas bill. You compare 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:26.280 that with the rhetoric in previous energy crisis, which was 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.480 much more you know, now is the time to share 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:32.400 a bath, and you will find more UM. You will 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:36.560 find more UM elements within the Conservative Party who are 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.320 drifting back towards that and saying help, government is getting 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:43.680 too big. But the supreme sort of lack of skill 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.400 of this particular event was to somehow lose those people 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.920 as well. And the polls are astonishing, the biggest ever 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:55.800 lead for labor, some up to thirty or so. So yes, you, 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:57.720 as you said, people in the hall might be cheering 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.680 her to the rafters, but the public have made up 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.600 the mind, haven't they. And you start talk about opening 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.320 up a space for labor. I mean, they've got to 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.640 be odds on now to win the next election, haven't they. 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:08.560 I think the moment that clearly the favorites. I think 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.120 there are two things, two arguments put forward um. The 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.560 second one she's going to sound rather pathetic, but I 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.920 will make none less. The first one is, look, really 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:19.800 in the end, that is not a lead for labor. 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.280 It's a loss for the Conservatives. That the Conservatives get 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:24.559 their house in order. A lot of those things will narrow. 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.320 The second one, which sounds pathetic, it isn't is this 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.840 idea of events. British politics has changed so rapidly over 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.280 the past five years. You've had Theresa May have had 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:38.520 Boris Johnson in trouble, out of trouble, winning an enormous landslide, 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.439 and then in trouble again, then got rid of You've 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.680 had people going up and down like like everything and 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:49.280 so their argument and you hear this both from allies 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:53.280 of Trust and from deeply committed opponents for is Look, 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.800 something could happen in the next six seven months that 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:01.360 changes changes the dynamic. But that is that's at some 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.720 point that becomes a fain hope Johnson, after listening to 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.880 list Trust at the Tory Party conference and after the 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.760 tumultuous two weeks that we've had with the U turns, 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.120 do you actually think that labor could be more business friendly? 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.000 I think that is the truly horrifying question for the 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:20.040 Conservatives is do you get a degree more certainty from 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.599 labor some ways not not good certainty. You know, the 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.199 certainty is that they will probably they will definitely keep 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.240 the forty five where h whilst the Conservatives probably get 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.080 rid of it. Um. But do you begin to get 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:34.920 is there an element whereby you're going to get a 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.840 more responsible, even handed I mean, Keir Starmor is nothing 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.440 nothing if not boring, And at this precise moment, I 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:46.000 think business needs somebody who they think they can just 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:48.840 get on with things. You've had the Boris Johnson jumping 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.720 in every available way but actually not doing anything as 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:56.720 spectacularly sort of destructive as what happened with the mini 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.000 budget and the unpredictability of it, right, wasn't it. It It 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.440 was the fact that he sprung those biggest those cuts 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.280 by surprise and hadn't even cleared up the cabinet. And 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.720 I think I guess Rachel Reeves and Cure Starmer are 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.200 going to be offering what they would presents a bit 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.800 more certainty in stability for business. Right. Definitely, speaking to 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:20.600 Collie from America at not from Bloomberg from outside, but 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.760 he said the whole meeting members of the Trust Administration 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.800 really reminded him of the sort of second term of 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:30.920 a presidential thing. When you go to the White House 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:32.960 and a lot of the good people have left in 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.160 your left with the others, you're left with the people 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.800 who are just hanging around to the end of this presidency. 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:39.720 And that there is an element of that about the 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.400 Labor administration. It's got a lame dug by month. That's 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.960 not a good place to be. So what's the prescription 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.600 for the Labor Party and its leader, Cure Starmer. Do 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.880 they need to be more like the Tony Blair administration 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:56.959 to attract investment and to attract business. I mean, my instinct, 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.839 having seen somebody from the Blair administration recently, is that 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:05.280 Starmer probably still needs to do one more thing that 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:10.040 shows he is clearly in the center. I don't think 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.720 that merely saying you're no longer anti semitic it sort 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.760 of counts as a radical, radical reform in terms of 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.640 what he's actually done. Yes, if you look at what 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.400 he was talking about this week, he has you know, 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.120 they they agreed to some of the tax cutting stuff 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:29.040 That shows centrism. He and he feels centrist, but the 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.520 quite a lot of the Labor platform is still relatively 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.800 left wing. That was you had measure Rachel reeves her 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.920 her commitment was to go and spend the money that 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.160 Quasti quatting was going to give away, so sort of fiscally, 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:46.400 it's not entirely clear that that's clever. She's she's claiming 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.000 that she would get the money from non doms. But 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.959 labor has to watch it, you know, the two things. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:53.839 On the one hand, you have the Tories who are 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:58.320 used to winning and Labor used to losing. And there 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.400 is an element within Labor that I think still a 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.760 degree of fear from people on the left that they 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.560 could still mess it up. But God, this is one 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:09.320 of the great opportunities of our times for them. John, 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.679 thank you so much, John nichol Thwaite, there are Bloomberg 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:28.600 editor in chief. Thanks John, Thank you, Lord Billmorea, thank 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.680 you so much for joining us. You wear different hats. 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:34.120 You were formerly, of course at the Confederation of British Industry. 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.920 You're the House of Lords. You're also a very famous 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.760 business founder. So what were the last two three weeks? 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.640 Like a month ago we had a new prime Minister 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:46.760 and we had a new primister, a new monarch in 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:50.600 one week um and then this mini budget and I 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.320 hate this mini budget anything but mini about it. It 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:58.160 was a major. It's an earthquake of budget. It was huge. 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.760 The first reaction from business said, this is great news 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.560 for business custing taxes. Because I've said for a long 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.080 time to the previous Chancellor Rischie Soon, going back to 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.040 February last year, over one and a half years ago, 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.080 as long as you can fund them, no, I said 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:13.400 a lot one and a half years ago, I said 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.440 to Rishie, do not put up taxes, because if you 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:20.199 increase taxes, it will hamper the recovery and will hamper growth. 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.560 What happens, taxes go up and up and up, and 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.080 we've got the highest tax burden in seventy years. So 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.280 you look back at the situation where in now we're 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:33.240 faced with these huge challenges, huge headwinds, uncertainty continued. And 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:35.120 yet you look back in history and always say the 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.040 best way to predict the futures look at the past. 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.760 And thirteen years ago, before the financial crisis, we had 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.600 interest rates on average at five pc. We had a 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:45.400 growth rate of about two and a half percent of 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.200 our country. And what have we had since? What have 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.480 we had since financial crisis? Over a decade of zero growth, 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.480 declining productivity and interest rates at almost zero. But this 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.760 budget mini earthquake, whatever you want to call it, was 0:13:57.760 --> 0:13:59.800 a mistake and I don't know whether it was too 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.720 ast or badly put together. If you if you look 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.240 at how much it's taken off markets in the UK 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:09.000 and and what even rating agencies are now saying about 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.400 the UK. So the mistakes were as follows. One to 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.400 announce the bankers bonuses, removing the cap at a time 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.040 like this, there's nothing that in principle it's the right 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.920 thing to do to make the City of London more competitive, absolutely, 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.160 but not at a time like this. The perception is wrong. 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.600 Rate of tax again absolutely the right thing to remove that. 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.680 It should not be there. It's been forty with Margaret Thatcher, 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:36.280 Tony Blair, with with Gordon Brown, John Major, and it 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.800 was Gordon Brown who put it up just before he 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.720 lost election. George Osborne didn't bring it down to he 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.200 wanted to, but there was a coalition governany brought forty five. 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:46.880 So we shouldn't have the forty five. But again to 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.400 remove that at a time like this not the right 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.720 time to do it. The third thing mistake, which was 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.800 the Office of Budget Responsiblity not to have a o 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.320 Bier report backing up what you were doing. That was 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:00.960 the third mistake, I mean, and we're going to get 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.840 that over our report, probably in the next in the 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.600 next few weeks, or Bill and Murrow. But you know, 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.480 those two measures, the other two fiscal measures you're talking about, 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.600 the higher rate of tax and the bonus cut, those 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.120 don't move the needle on the amount of borrowing that 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:17.480 the government's going to have to make. And that's the 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.200 verdict of the markets have taken, haven't they. It's on 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.520 the bigger, the much bigger tax cuts, which you're saying, 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.520 we're still the right thing to do. Absolutely, because if 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.600 you think of what has a decade of austerity got us, 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.800 it's got us nowhere, no growth, low productivity. What have 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.960 high taxes, the highest tax burden seventy years got us nowhere? 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.720 So what is the alternative? The alternatives carry on with 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:41.600 what we had, Well, that's not going to work. You 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:43.920 tax people more and more, you're not going to grow 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.720 and you're gonna hamper the recovery and people are suffering enough. 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:48.960 And what was missing in the mini budget, by the way, 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.480 was where is the help for small businesses to survive 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.360 this winter? Yeah, but the higher owners does not help 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.400 small businesses. I mean, is this you know, the Prime 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:01.280 Minister just trying to speak to her constituency, which are 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:05.800 are you know, the Tory membership, the base that elected her. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.320 What you've got to do is look at broadly the 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:14.640 economy in making Britain the most best place to invest, 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.480 a magnet for inward investment. We have traditionally been the 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.720 second or third largest recipient of inward investment in the world. 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:22.960 Now you can't be a magnet for inward investment if 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.640 you have high taxes. You've got to have a competitive 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.040 rate of tax. By the way, is still high. As 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:30.960 the top rate of income tax, it is still high. 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:32.640 I'm just gonna read it. You know, we have a 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.920 story leading up Bloomberg UK website from the Liberal and 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.720 Capital saying the feedback we've got from investors is that 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.080 they consider the UK uninvestable as long as there is 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.880 such government chaos. I mean, you know that's the problem, 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.359 isn't it. Lord Already, like all of the the upheaval 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:52.400 and this very dramatic impact in this budget. It's spooking 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.960 investors around the world, isn't it. And this is the 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.880 whole point in life. I've realized time after time it's 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:00.520 not just what you do, with how you do it right, 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:02.640 and and and and of course the timing of it 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.760 as well. If this had been done and presented in 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.200 the right way, the markets would not have been spooked. 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.480 I'd go back to it, were the markets spooked when 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.920 we spent four billion pounds that we did not have. 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:14.679 We didn't have that four hundred billion pounds. We had 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.280 to borrow the four hundred billion pounds. That didn't spook 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.359 the markets. This has spooked the markets because of the 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.160 way it's happened. Interest rates going up. They will probably 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.720 go back up to the level of five in due course, 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:26.600 but not in one go like this. In one goal 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.920 like this, it's devastating, devastating for mortgage hold us, devastating 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.040 for businesses. So there's absolutely effect of what has happened 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.600 with the Many budget is the wrong thing altogether. Nobody 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.240 wanted it, but the intention of what they were trying 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.480 to do is just they went about it the wrong way. 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.119 The perception now so fourteen days we had the Labor 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.760 Party Conference and the Tory Party Conference, is that the 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:51.040 Tories are in disarray. The atmosphere was daggers and cloaks, 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:52.920 and no one really got along and they weren't really 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.360 sure how to find the footing. Do you think Lord 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.520 Billa Maria, that the Labor Party is now the more 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.400 business friendly part d of the UK. What everyone wants 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:06.679 to see at a time like this is the least 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.760 well off the people to be protected, to be helped. 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.600 And when you have a debate about whether benefits are 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.560 going to go up in line with wages or earnings, 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:17.760 or whether they're going to go up in line with inflation, 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:20.800 I mean, how can you even think about that? That's 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:22.879 got to be done in tne with inflation because the 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.760 poor people can are struggling with energy, they're struggling with food. 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.160 I mean, if you look at food prices and there's 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.360 ten percent. By the way, inflation figure is a very 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.080 misleading figure. I mean, my input costs in my business 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:36.880 and Cobra beer have gone up by well over twenty 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.400 I can't pass that on to the consumer. Wage increases 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.080 in nowhere near keeping up which inflation. Now, if you 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.240 can try and have wages keeping up with inflation, you 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:48.320 have a wage spiral inflation. Where's the end to that? 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.600 You keep putting up wages. Prices go up, then you've 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.000 put up wages even more. It's a it's a vicious cycle. 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.080 So there is a huge challenge of you've got strikes 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.800 that are happening more and more. Now we've got leadership. 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.560 What you're talking about, it is where is we need leadership, 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:07.880 We need direction, we need confidence, we need certainty and 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.720 and now the government is trying to do that. But 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.359 after the afterre's many budget from the twenty three September onwards, 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.680 they are unable to And the speech let's trust a 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:19.320 speech just now at the end of the conference, was 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:21.879 trying to say, please, but let's focus on growth, growth, growth, 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.240 and these are my priorities that allow me to try 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.320 and implement it. Well, let's see if she has given 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.480 a chance to implement it. And Labor, by the way, 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.240 they're being very clear they're reaching out to business, care starms, 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.679 reaching out of business. Rachel reeves the shadowed chance of 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.240 reaching out to business. We know historically that a labor 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.800 government can be very business friendly. I mean Tony Blair's 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:46.320 government quite frankly, in the last two decades has probably 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.439 been the most business friendly government. If you look at 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.119 the capital gains tax rates, if you look at entrepreneur's relief, 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.040 if you look at the top rate of tax in 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.359 every way they were very, very business friendly. And you know, 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:04.080 there is that feeling, isn't there of? In with labor 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.040 really ahead in the polls, Tony Blair, the Prime Minister 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:11.200 in waiting coursing business and having to sort of get 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.200 real about the fact they're lining up for government and 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.119 you know, looking at the polls, now this sort of 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:19.000 record lead for labor. Business people like yourself, surely you 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:23.800 must be preparing for a care star premiership. Well, an 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.280 election is going to happen in a maximum of two 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:30.760 years time, and that's that's the hurry that list Truss 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.400 and Quasi quart anger in. They know they haven't got 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.720 much time to turn things around, and especially after what's 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:40.400 happened since the twenty three September, they've got to rebuild confidence. 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:44.280 Confidence from the business community here, confidence with the consumers 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.720 and the voters, and also confidence from the international community 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.640 and the markets that they can trust his growth strategy 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.359 and investment Lott Bill, Maria, thank you so much for 0:20:53.440 --> 0:21:01.600 joining us. Thank you, it's a pleasure. So they've had 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.240 this great conversation with the chief executive of Deutsche Bank 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.359 here in the UK and Ireland teen early one of 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:10.280 the most powerful female bankers in London. We talked about 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:12.400 the City of London. We talked about regulation and whether 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:15.399 there's chaos she knows personally also the Chancellor, whether this 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:19.680 chaos means that some clients were not investing in the UK. Yeah, 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:21.440 and you know the idea that the UK in the 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:26.439 last few weeks has become by some views uninvestable with 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.320 the amount of money that's been white top markets. First 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:30.760 of all, what's your take on the UK right now? 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.560 You sat next to the Chancellor. There's you know, obviously 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.240 a credibility problem that was played under the market. Can 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:38.600 they get back on their feet? I think they can. 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:40.639 I mean there's been a lot of sound and fury 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.560 that we have seen over the last ten days, and 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:45.719 I think the work that the Bank of England has 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:48.440 done in terms of announcing their guilt purchase scheme has 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.280