Speaker 1: On the dol cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef in
Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello and
Speaker 1: welcome to the Bigtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus.
Speaker 1: Oh hello, I guess we're doing these accents. I didn't know,
Speaker 1: but here we are. I just want to incense our audiences.
Speaker 1: I just want to polarize them right at the top.
Speaker 1: So yeah, of course. My name is Caitlin Durante, Danny
Speaker 1: and um. We are here to talk about where the
Speaker 1: portrayal of women in film. The Bigteal Test is the
Speaker 1: metric that we use in order to in order to
Speaker 1: talk about how women are portrayed. What the Bloody Hill
Speaker 1: is the bigtal tests? It will It's something you usually
Speaker 1: applied to cinema but can be applied to all media.
Speaker 1: How long are we going to do this it's a taste. Well,
Speaker 1: we're we're. I don't know, because there's no reason to
Speaker 1: do it too, because this movie is an alto Australia.
Speaker 1: Australian I think anytime when I see Miles Grey, I
Speaker 1: just begin to talk this way and it's it's had
Speaker 1: to break out of um. Well, so the Mecktel test there, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we're back to our our regular toad speak. The Becktel
Speaker 1: test is the metric we used to discuss it. It
Speaker 1: is a test that requires there are two women in
Speaker 1: a scene who have names who talk about something other
Speaker 1: than a man. Not many movies past we talked about
Speaker 1: other tests as well, but that's our jumping off point.
Speaker 1: Shall we demo it? I would love to, hey, Jamie, Yes,
Speaker 1: what's up? Have you ever? Have you ever been to Australia? Might?
Speaker 1: I've never been, but everybody thinks I'm from there because
Speaker 1: my very convincing accent that no one finds annoying. And
Speaker 1: I actually think it's very cool. I like how you
Speaker 1: go into like a Liverpool accident towards the end, it's
Speaker 1: very cool spectrum. When I passed the Bechtel test, so
Speaker 1: it's true. Yeah, So it doesn't mean that everything that
Speaker 1: passes the Bechtel test is not annoying. It can be
Speaker 1: very annoying. Sure, so you know, let women be annoying.
Speaker 1: It's our time to be any damn it. Times up
Speaker 1: men being annoying. I get to be annoying. Now, well,
Speaker 1: well today we really we we have a banger today,
Speaker 1: a bang a bang a. We we got a real,
Speaker 1: a real bing bog today. I'm very excited to talk
Speaker 1: about this movie because it is a movie that is
Speaker 1: nine years old, and yet I feel like the public
Speaker 1: opinion of this movie has changed drastically since the movie
Speaker 1: is released. Days of Summer, Here with Us, Summer, Here
Speaker 1: with Us to talk about the film is a friend,
Speaker 1: a very wonderful person, a comedian. Sorry, I'm going to
Speaker 1: go back to how I usually talk. She's a comedian.
Speaker 1: She's one of the co hosts of Lady to Lady podcast,
Speaker 1: and she's got an album out called Opinion Cave. Brandy Posey, Hello,
Speaker 1: go nice, Hello, top of the Moon Into Yeah. If
Speaker 1: this is good or not, it's good and in fact
Speaker 1: it's great. We have alienated all of our internationals. Hello,
Speaker 1: international listeners like, Okay, I'll just talk American over here.
Speaker 1: That's fine. Well we here on the big okays. We
Speaker 1: that was my attempt at a Southern accent. Uh, we're
Speaker 1: blowing it. Hey, y'all, let's just get into it. Let's
Speaker 1: get into the discourse. So, Brandy, what is your history,
Speaker 1: your relationship with the movie Five Hundred Days of Summer
Speaker 1: Um that I say it all. I watched it last
Speaker 1: night for the very first time. Yeah, I don't like
Speaker 1: Zoey's whole thing. This movie like seemed like it was
Speaker 1: peak whimsy. The man I Pixie dream Girl thing just
Speaker 1: like really irritates me. And this seemed like at the
Speaker 1: time when I came out that it was like the
Speaker 1: most that and I know that that's not necessarily a
Speaker 1: popular opinion sometimes, so I just was like, if I
Speaker 1: don't see it, then I don't have to talk about it.
Speaker 1: And then nine years later I was booked on a
Speaker 1: podcast where to talk about it to strangers of them listening.
Speaker 1: It's all right, thank you for your sacrifice. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: all good. I was watching this with my boyfriend last
Speaker 1: night and he he got about halfway through and then
Speaker 1: he was like, stuffed water boarding me with twee. I'm
Speaker 1: going to bed. That is basically what this movie is. Yeah, oh, Jamie,
Speaker 1: what's your history? I'm guilty of loving it. I was
Speaker 1: sixteen when this movie came out, and it really got me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really love this movie when it came out, But
Speaker 1: but I I within a few years had turned on it,
Speaker 1: which is why I think that a lot of people
Speaker 1: had that experience of this movie. When it came out,
Speaker 1: I was like, it's it love and this is what
Speaker 1: I want. And then I remember watching it, I think
Speaker 1: in college just a few years later, and being like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is like kind of horseship, you know, I will
Speaker 1: I will say, I don't think it is a movie
Speaker 1: that is self aware. It has no idea what it's doing.
Speaker 1: But there's a few different ways to watch it, all
Speaker 1: of which I think are sort of interesting because there's
Speaker 1: when I was watching it this time, because this is
Speaker 1: probably I've probably seen this movie five or six times
Speaker 1: over the years, and every time I will watch it
Speaker 1: watching it from this perspective knowing that the message is
Speaker 1: ultimately like net negative kind of um. It's interesting to
Speaker 1: watch this movie as if it knows what it's doing,
Speaker 1: because if it was a self aware movie, it might
Speaker 1: be brilliant, but it has no idea, and so it's
Speaker 1: down selfware in terms of it knowing that it's Joseph
Speaker 1: Gordley killing of the movie, which I don't think the
Speaker 1: movie has any clue. Because then I was reading about
Speaker 1: the production and the guy who wrote it was like
Speaker 1: I was going through break up and like, you know
Speaker 1: my heart and me, you know, very very SENSI boy
Speaker 1: bull shit. Oh yeah, this is a guy that has
Speaker 1: put holes in all of his hoodies for his fingers
Speaker 1: through where even Joseph Gordon Levitt now recognizes. I mean,
Speaker 1: and Joseph Gordon Levitt, I just I don't I don't
Speaker 1: know that he's done anything wrong. I do find him annoying.
Speaker 1: That's whatever I'm here for. Joseph Gordon. I am a
Speaker 1: fan of his. I grew up watching Third Rock from
Speaker 1: the Sun a lot, so I liked him from an
Speaker 1: early age. And yeah, I don't know. I just I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna join his fan club or anything like that,
Speaker 1: but I's gonna join him. This is going to sound
Speaker 1: contradictory of me. But Joseph Gordon Levitt is is a
Speaker 1: bit in your face about how very wokey is and
Speaker 1: I that's just an equality and men I find annoying,
Speaker 1: not harmful, but annoying. Oh for sure. I sweed this
Speaker 1: movie last night, um because I was just furious watching
Speaker 1: it and I had subtly And here's the thing. If
Speaker 1: you say that you don't like five days of summer.
Speaker 1: Several wokemen will explain to you the movie as if
Speaker 1: you just don't understand what it's really women are, women
Speaker 1: are objects, They're people who can think for themselves. Honey.
Speaker 1: Oh and several several several guys did that to me
Speaker 1: last night. She was still We'll say for Joseph Gordon
Speaker 1: Levitt is like as early as twelve he declared himself
Speaker 1: the villain of the movie. Yeah, so it is interesting
Speaker 1: where they're there. He and Zoe additional both spoken of
Speaker 1: this movie in retrospect and pretty close to it coming out,
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, that wasn't a good story or not
Speaker 1: as good as everyone thought it was in two thousand nine. Well,
Speaker 1: and like I could see reading that script and being like, oh,
Speaker 1: the intent is that I'm my character is a villain,
Speaker 1: but it's just executed really poorly. But I also don't
Speaker 1: think that was the intent of the thing in the
Speaker 1: first place. I don't think so. I think they were
Speaker 1: like it made me want that movie, though, I would
Speaker 1: let like a movie where the you know, SENSI indie
Speaker 1: boy is like punished by the narrative. For sure. Well,
Speaker 1: it's funny because this movie aspires to be garden State,
Speaker 1: which is what a horrible goal? Can you imagine what
Speaker 1: your gold like? I just want to be garden State,
Speaker 1: striving for Braft like well, whenever we get around to
Speaker 1: uh Natalie November or whatever time, we do the funniest. However,
Speaker 1: I don't know why it was, but yeah, I loved
Speaker 1: this movie when it came out and turned on it
Speaker 1: within a few years. Yeah, the same thing happened with me.
Speaker 1: I saw it pretty shortly after it came out, really
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Thought it was, you know, a subversive example
Speaker 1: of like the rom com genre that I had come
Speaker 1: to hate, just crazy because it subverts nothing, and that
Speaker 1: was what people thought when it came out. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I was not, as you know, aware of
Speaker 1: things back then. So and then I think probably only
Speaker 1: once or twice between then and now, and and now
Speaker 1: that I've rewatched it, it's a whole new world. So
Speaker 1: shall I do the recap of the story, the recap
Speaker 1: of the film. Are you going to start with the
Speaker 1: opening where there's just like several lines of texture, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the great place to start. So the author's note that
Speaker 1: happens over black before we see any even images in
Speaker 1: courier grow up, where we can assume the screenwriter, the director,
Speaker 1: whoever's story this is, says the following is a work
Speaker 1: of fiction. Any resemblance to persons living or dead is
Speaker 1: purely coincidental. Next frame, especially you, Jenny Beckman. Next frame,
Speaker 1: bitch right away, Yeah, I mean start with a three pointer.
Speaker 1: I like stood up in my house. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh cool, so this is the movie. I would love
Speaker 1: to watch you watch this movie. I just punching a
Speaker 1: pillow entire and he's I have said so just in
Speaker 1: case you weren't sure how this movie views women. Um,
Speaker 1: it thinks they're all bitches basically witches, skanks, and horse
Speaker 1: all three words are he's super skank is invoked. God.
Speaker 1: I mean this was like the Late Hots where it
Speaker 1: was and you know all of history, but when it
Speaker 1: was the sniveling loser was getting fucked for some reason.
Speaker 1: But it was just as misogynist as the jock, and
Speaker 1: it was just like, well, what, yeah, what's the difference here? Um,
Speaker 1: So we meet Tom Joseph Gordon Levitt's character, and we
Speaker 1: meet Summer Finn Zoe Desianelle's character Tweet, and so Tom
Speaker 1: is our protagonist. He loves love he's a sensi boy,
Speaker 1: and he is like on the lookout for the one
Speaker 1: something about him just as like he totally has called
Speaker 1: someone like we're like Jack and Sally, you know, like
Speaker 1: he has that like hot topic adjacent five Like I've
Speaker 1: never said this to anyone before, but you're kind of
Speaker 1: the salary to my Jack. I'm like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: yes for sure. Has like a mix of just songs
Speaker 1: that are about two names, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: He's just like, Okay, these are going to be awesome.
Speaker 1: This man made a sex playlist in two thousand seven
Speaker 1: has not updated it to this day. He's like, what
Speaker 1: do you think about beach House? Like that's like he's
Speaker 1: going to figure you to a beach House album. He's
Speaker 1: done it a million times and then he'll yell at
Speaker 1: you later. I hate him, mad that you're not getting
Speaker 1: off usher. Okay. So so Tom and Summer meet at work,
Speaker 1: and the movie follows their relationship in which they are
Speaker 1: either together or not, basically him having feelings for her
Speaker 1: over the course of five days. And the movie tells
Speaker 1: the story out of chronological order. What is they think it?
Speaker 1: It's pulpit? Ever heard of non linear narrative kind of
Speaker 1: cool thing this movie does. I think that sometimes when
Speaker 1: movies go nonlinear, it is to mask that it is
Speaker 1: a boring movie. Almost always it's like, put in sequence.
Speaker 1: This movie fucking sucks. Absolutely, Oh, but the past is
Speaker 1: happening now when it started good and then it got bad.
Speaker 1: Like I feel like the out of order adds almost
Speaker 1: nothing to this. That's just a yeah, I would tend
Speaker 1: to agree. Um, So we see their relationship unfold and
Speaker 1: their breakup unfold over the course of the movie, and
Speaker 1: it's taking place not necessarily in chronological order. We do
Speaker 1: kind of start at the beginning though, where they meet.
Speaker 1: He sees her and he's just instantly enamored with her,
Speaker 1: and she is ambivalent. She barely notices him, and then
Speaker 1: he gets closer to her. Other characters would say that
Speaker 1: he stalks her, which he listens to the Smiths, thank
Speaker 1: you very much, so could not commit a crime, said,
Speaker 1: we don't see him stalking her the way other movies
Speaker 1: portray a romantic pursuit a lot of the time. But
Speaker 1: he is like he's taken an interest in her and
Speaker 1: he is trying to get her attention, and then eventually
Speaker 1: that does happen and they have like a work hang
Speaker 1: at a bar in which his friend Mackenzie says like, Hey,
Speaker 1: do you wanna boyfriend? And we'll talk about this whole
Speaker 1: conversation when we get to the discussion. But basically she
Speaker 1: says that she's not really into having a boyfriend. But
Speaker 1: they He's like, she's saying it, but she doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 1: Change her. Me and my fourgnch penises are going to
Speaker 1: change her life. Woman mind doesn't know what it needs.
Speaker 1: He's most flaccid man to ever take breath, and she
Speaker 1: will be mine. Yeah. So then they do start dating,
Speaker 1: and throughout the whole course of their relationship, she tends
Speaker 1: to be kind of distant. She tells him that she's
Speaker 1: not really looking for anything serious. He is meanwhile in
Speaker 1: love with her. Um Whenever he thinks that she's not
Speaker 1: into him or whenever she breaks up with him, he
Speaker 1: falls apart and has to consult his toxic friends and
Speaker 1: his sister, who is a character who has never existed
Speaker 1: in the world. So we'll talk about that child, A
Speaker 1: wise child. Yeah, we'll get into that weird child child
Speaker 1: troupe ruins me. I hate it. It's so fucking lazy.
Speaker 1: Do you think they all go to school together? Does
Speaker 1: the most insufferable group of pretentious little like actually kids
Speaker 1: that should be That should be a YouTube video of
Speaker 1: just like cutting all of those kids in conversation. Every Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's horrible, and the I feel like it's also and
Speaker 1: we can when we talk about that character more in depth,
Speaker 1: I feel like she that character is fully exploited as
Speaker 1: a way to make Tom seem like not a bad guy,
Speaker 1: because it's like, oh, he's so nice to his little
Speaker 1: sister and he's clearly a good role model for her
Speaker 1: and they're so close. But like, if you deconstruct that
Speaker 1: even a little bit, it's just like the screenwriter grasping
Speaker 1: at straws of like, how can I make this guy
Speaker 1: not look like a ship head? Let me put the
Speaker 1: story out of horridor. Let me give him friends who
Speaker 1: are worse than him. Let me give him a sister,
Speaker 1: so it's like he doesn't hate all women. He has
Speaker 1: a sister. You know, it's such such sneaky ship to
Speaker 1: play here. So basically the story ends with them breaking up,
Speaker 1: him being distraught over it, and then she gets engaged
Speaker 1: and then married and he's all like, but you said
Speaker 1: you didn't want a boyfriend and now you're somebody's wife,
Speaker 1: and what I don't understand what was wrong with me
Speaker 1: that he didn't love me? And then this sort of
Speaker 1: this is the catalyst that gets him to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I should pursue my architect degree. I'm going to go
Speaker 1: on a job interview to become an architect, and they're
Speaker 1: another lazy movie job that like architect that's almost like, oh,
Speaker 1: does Zoe Deschanelle work at a gallery. This is also
Speaker 1: our second recent episode we've done that features the greeting
Speaker 1: card company trope one I hate from the movie Her
Speaker 1: Her there. And then now this of like another coded
Speaker 1: SENSEI boy thing of like he's too sensitive for the
Speaker 1: greeting card company. We love him? What a beta? And
Speaker 1: I want to be clear that we do. I am
Speaker 1: fine with men in real life who are emotionally sensitive
Speaker 1: and vulnerable. I don't want to sound like we're being like, oh,
Speaker 1: sense boys, but the way that movies often depict that
Speaker 1: character is that they are still extremely toxic those men,
Speaker 1: but we are led to believe because they're so sensitive
Speaker 1: and because they know how to write I love you
Speaker 1: into a greeting card, we are supposed to sympathize with
Speaker 1: them so much, it's just a self serving sensitivity where
Speaker 1: it's only they're still selfish. Like it's like no, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm dating a very sensitive guy, but he
Speaker 1: thinks out of himself all the time, who cares about
Speaker 1: other people and put them before him And like, at
Speaker 1: no point, doesn't do any of these guys in these
Speaker 1: movies ever do that. It's only about them. We love
Speaker 1: when men are expressive. It doesn't happen enough in the
Speaker 1: real world. But this, but this character, like the reason
Speaker 1: I feel fine making fun of it is because it's
Speaker 1: all false. It's not real at all. So yesterday Jack
Speaker 1: O'Brien brought this to my attention at Joseph Gordon Levitt
Speaker 1: revisited this too, and he tweeted, literally yesterday, it's August
Speaker 1: seven today he tweeted this. Yesterday someone tweeted still haven't
Speaker 1: forgiven Zoe Tashanal for what she did to Joseph Gordon
Speaker 1: levin Five Days of Summer, and then j g L,
Speaker 1: to his credit, responded, watch it again. It's mostly Tom's fault.
Speaker 1: He's projecting, he's not listening, he's selfish. Luckily he grows
Speaker 1: by the end like, oh, okay, so good anyway, So
Speaker 1: so the movie and he goes on this interview during
Speaker 1: which he meets a another hute gal and he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to seize the day. I'm going to ask
Speaker 1: her out. Then he's like what's your name? And she's
Speaker 1: like Autumn. We're like, I also stood up at that point.
Speaker 1: It's just a series of me just standing in rage
Speaker 1: and it's come back down and I felt trapped in
Speaker 1: my own home that time. I did actively hiss and
Speaker 1: because I forgot that happened at the end, it's like, no,
Speaker 1: so does that mean whenever they break up? He meets
Speaker 1: a girl named Winter, like what are we meant to
Speaker 1: be here? He's going to end up with a solstice
Speaker 1: that's his kind. He's like, I need something more whimsical
Speaker 1: than Summer, please. So that is the story. We've already
Speaker 1: kind of touched on some of the tropes that we
Speaker 1: see from different characters. Some of the problems that the
Speaker 1: movie just slaps us in the face with, well it supposed.
Speaker 1: A good place to begin is the way that a
Speaker 1: lot of the characters use language to disparage women, to
Speaker 1: disparage queer people, other marginalized groups of people like so,
Speaker 1: for example, whenever Tom's sister, whose name is Rachel, comes over,
Speaker 1: this is the very beginning of the movie. She comes
Speaker 1: over to console Tom after his breakup with Summer. His
Speaker 1: friends are there as well, and they're all like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe she's just in a bad mood. Maybe she's hormonal.
Speaker 1: His sisters like p MS. It was so bad. I
Speaker 1: was like, Oh God, it's just her hormones. Don't worry
Speaker 1: her having agency and making a choice to not be
Speaker 1: in a relationship anymore that she didn't want to be in.
Speaker 1: That's her having p MS. Yeah, Queen has sign up
Speaker 1: for one second. This movie also takes place in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: but it does not feel like Los Angeles. It like
Speaker 1: desperately wanted to be in New York, but they couldn't
Speaker 1: do it anywhere, couldn't afford it, so they were just
Speaker 1: downtown the entire time. Because when the little girl comes
Speaker 1: over Rachel and sister, she she's just like it's speeding
Speaker 1: over on a bike. And then she takes off her
Speaker 1: helmet goes inside, and I was like, literally, no one
Speaker 1: in l A wears helmets. Whatever we are. And there's
Speaker 1: a scene where it's like pouring rain. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: supposed to be this like emotional thing where like she
Speaker 1: shows up in the rain, she's drenched, and it's like
Speaker 1: it rains in l a once a year. Yet one week,
Speaker 1: one week a year, and it rains, and then it
Speaker 1: doesn't really nice to him. I just felt gas lit
Speaker 1: at every moment of this movie, especially in the setting
Speaker 1: of it, where I was just like, I know what
Speaker 1: Los Angeles is, and this does not feel like we're
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. I also took me a while to
Speaker 1: realize that the sisters Chloe Grace Moretts too. So man
Speaker 1: not inn auspicious beginning, no, no, but thankfully she graduated
Speaker 1: to better material like the Luisy k movie, Oh that one.
Speaker 1: Oh she Is She Is, He is Daddy, So there's God.
Speaker 1: I mean, should we start with tom or Summer? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I started because Summer isn't a person, right,
Speaker 1: I said, I would argue, we know very little about Summer,
Speaker 1: and we know a lot about a construction of Summer
Speaker 1: that isn't an actual person, which is something we can
Speaker 1: talk about right after the break. Yeah, so we'll be
Speaker 1: we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back
Speaker 1: Hala hala. We actually like very quickly went to Australia,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, let's talk about Summer her. The backstory
Speaker 1: she's given ring the kind of opening sequence of the
Speaker 1: movie where we're learning a little bit about her and
Speaker 1: about Tom. What we know about her backstory is some
Speaker 1: voice over narration that says, after the disintegration of her
Speaker 1: parents marriage, she only loved two things, her long, dark
Speaker 1: hair and how easily she could cut it off and
Speaker 1: feel nothing. And it's just like, really, these this is
Speaker 1: how you're characterizing this person. Like it's such a one
Speaker 1: dimensional characterization that it's embarrassing, Like the writer should feel embarrassed. No,
Speaker 1: it's really embarrassing. Don't don't worry. He's very proud of
Speaker 1: what he's done. As also, it's just like, so you're
Speaker 1: setting her up to be a murderer? Is that what
Speaker 1: you're trying to do here? As she got older, she
Speaker 1: loved just torturing cats and feeling nothing, like what are
Speaker 1: we talking about? But it's made to be very cute
Speaker 1: and attractive. He doesn't And Okay, Zoe d Chanelle, how
Speaker 1: do we feel? Because I feel generally that Zoe Deschanelle
Speaker 1: gets a bad rap that is not necessarily fair and
Speaker 1: perhaps a little bit gendered in the way that she's
Speaker 1: been treated in her career. And I like her. Okay,
Speaker 1: you're allowed, It's okay. It's the way find I've heard
Speaker 1: personal stories that she's a piece of ship, so that
Speaker 1: colors a lot for me. Yeah. Um, And like the
Speaker 1: leaning into the tweenness of it is just like, I
Speaker 1: get it. We all have brands and stuff. I just like. Also,
Speaker 1: this movie was very hard to watch with the world
Speaker 1: that's happening around us right now, because I was like,
Speaker 1: shouldn't you be like rollerblading at a march or something.
Speaker 1: I feel like you should be doing something like tween
Speaker 1: in a space that matters of some kind. You should
Speaker 1: be like phone banking and footy pajamas or some ship. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say, I I'll follow in the middle of
Speaker 1: YouTube being just kind of vambib and about her. Like
Speaker 1: I watched several seasons of New Girl. I thought it
Speaker 1: was generally pretty funny. But yeah, I don't dislike her.
Speaker 1: I don't like her. I'm but I would agree that
Speaker 1: many of the roles that she takes in entertainment are
Speaker 1: this like very tweet. I don't even know if I
Speaker 1: would classify at least this role is a manic pixie
Speaker 1: dreamgirl type. It's more like a chill pixie dream girl.
Speaker 1: But she dresses like her mom is the CEO of
Speaker 1: mod cloths, Like it's a whole well, and it's like
Speaker 1: it's more like the embrace of Like the thing is
Speaker 1: that stereotype is like a sacred text of like the
Speaker 1: instell nation, basically like the man pixie dream role and
Speaker 1: for her to like take on those roles without like
Speaker 1: being like, but this is wrong and stupid all the time.
Speaker 1: To me, it's like feels a little irresponsible. Sure, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I just feel like generally and I know
Speaker 1: nothing about this woman personally, but I guess where I
Speaker 1: fall on it generally is I think if man was
Speaker 1: doing the same thing that she does in that she
Speaker 1: takes the same role frequently, it's not a positive role,
Speaker 1: people come down harder on her and she is more
Speaker 1: reviled because a woman. No, I think that's definitely true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that's just something I don't know, and and this
Speaker 1: is something that I guess it's more warranted for her
Speaker 1: than you know. There it was just like this very
Speaker 1: popular hot take to have for a while, Like Anne
Speaker 1: Hathaway is a bit just I hate her face and
Speaker 1: I hate but and like it was very cool to
Speaker 1: not like Anne Hathaway and think when Anne Hathaway literally
Speaker 1: didn't do anything, uh, and that's just something. I mean,
Speaker 1: she like Zoe Dishell's peak twee white lady, and that
Speaker 1: has its own set of issues to unpack. But I
Speaker 1: just it does like I don't know, the the like
Speaker 1: hot take of like Zoe Dictionel sucks and like her
Speaker 1: and bangs and blah blah blah. I mean every I
Speaker 1: don't know, every actor has that. Every actor has the
Speaker 1: role I take over and over and they don't examine it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make her better. But I just feel like
Speaker 1: people come down on her harder. I mean, you're right,
Speaker 1: because there are plenty of you know, actors who have
Speaker 1: been pretty typecast who I mean, Bruce Willis plays the
Speaker 1: same role over and over again. They all they all
Speaker 1: play you know, archetypal character in almost every movie that
Speaker 1: they're in. But we as a society love those guys,
Speaker 1: and then we do come down harder on people like
Speaker 1: Zoey Deschanel for doing the same thing those characters that
Speaker 1: she accepts are vastly different from the arte types that
Speaker 1: like you know, your action heroes take, but it's still
Speaker 1: but are also not available to her right exactly. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess to me, it's also like whenever I see her,
Speaker 1: she channels that in real life a lot too, on
Speaker 1: like couch pieces and stuff like that, where she also
Speaker 1: leans into it in person so much too that I'm
Speaker 1: just like, just be genuine, I want to know who
Speaker 1: I don't know who she is and never seen that
Speaker 1: in an interview, and if this issue who she is,
Speaker 1: then that's that's one thing. But I don't believe that
Speaker 1: that's true. So just like there's like a disingenuous about
Speaker 1: all of it that kind of just like, but why
Speaker 1: what's going on here? Because she used to be like that.
Speaker 1: I remember when like she was in yes Man and like,
Speaker 1: um early like i've seen her yes man, Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: seen her in early stuff. I remember being like, oh,
Speaker 1: she's like she's fine, and then she just was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is my thing, and I'm just like always going
Speaker 1: to have ukulele every time on one cone and and
Speaker 1: like right that you is yeah a lot, Yeah, you girl.
Speaker 1: I can't stand for that So that's just my just
Speaker 1: to get because I for this episode, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, everyone's going to go into our mentions
Speaker 1: of like Zoe desianalz dectional. That's just there. We got
Speaker 1: it out of the way. Now let's talk about the characters.
Speaker 1: So I would say that one of the main things
Speaker 1: that you do learn about her or you find out
Speaker 1: that she cuts her hair off and loves it or
Speaker 1: feels nothing or whatever, loves the feeling, loves the addicted
Speaker 1: to theo. So her main thing is she married the annoyed.
Speaker 1: So her thing is that she doesn't want to be
Speaker 1: in a relationship. Really, she's fine with just kind of
Speaker 1: being independent. And I appreciate that you see a depiction
Speaker 1: of a woman in a movie who is not obsessed
Speaker 1: with finding a boyfriend finding husband, because so many movies
Speaker 1: would have you believe that it's all women think about
Speaker 1: because one movie is be very heteronormative and too they
Speaker 1: just depict most single women as just being obsessed with
Speaker 1: finding a boyfriend or someone to marry. Um a maz she.
Speaker 1: But then that's like another thing that's interesting about I
Speaker 1: don't know. Watching it this time, it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: summer is way more independent and explicit about that than
Speaker 1: I remembered. But the movie also does think, like, but
Speaker 1: she does need a good guy. She's just like she
Speaker 1: says that, but it's a defense mechanism and she really
Speaker 1: does need a man. Like the movie doesn't even believe
Speaker 1: the character that it wrote right right, Yeah, and it
Speaker 1: demonizes that trade about her, where like she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't need no man, but because she doesn't want
Speaker 1: to be with Joseph Gordon Levitt, our hero, the movie
Speaker 1: would have you believe that she is an uppity bitch
Speaker 1: and they literally call her uppity better than everyone's super skameing. Right.
Speaker 1: I want to see more depictions of women in movies
Speaker 1: who are not obsessed with finding a man and that's
Speaker 1: like their one goal throughout the whole story, but also
Speaker 1: to not have that be demonized like it is in
Speaker 1: this movie. Yeah, for sure, what this movie needed was
Speaker 1: like the scene it like the party at the end,
Speaker 1: where there's like his expectations versus reality. They needed a
Speaker 1: split screen of how they both saw every interaction that
Speaker 1: they had, Like they never gave her an actual stay
Speaker 1: in any at any point in the movie. Even at
Speaker 1: that point, you're like you're like, oh, poor him, he
Speaker 1: didn't get the thing that he wanted. Like, it's still
Speaker 1: not like from her point of view, she's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: somebody my friend over. I think we're like cool now.
Speaker 1: You know. It's that at no point do you understand
Speaker 1: what is going on in her head whatsoever. And he's
Speaker 1: such an unreliable narrator because throughout the whole movie he
Speaker 1: is so like fraught with emotion that he is not
Speaker 1: seeing things clearly. And I we can see that when
Speaker 1: we watched this movie. But I wonder if, like when
Speaker 1: this movie came out, because we're led to believe that
Speaker 1: he's like this sensitive guy who deserves love and and
Speaker 1: fuck her for not being in love with him back
Speaker 1: that we're you know, meant to believe that he's this
Speaker 1: great guy. But yeah, we don't see things from her
Speaker 1: point of view, but we're still like supposed to empathize
Speaker 1: with him so heavily. It's very bizarre all the toxic
Speaker 1: traits that are passed off as sensitive man. And it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, ultimately bad, a bad movie for young men
Speaker 1: to see. And this was like one of the movies
Speaker 1: that young men were seeing and they're like, I literally
Speaker 1: remember my high school boyfriend being like I kind of
Speaker 1: liked Five Days of Somewhere as you know, to like
Speaker 1: really show his hand, like I'm a sensitive boy. But
Speaker 1: it's like the if you, you know, emulate those behaviors,
Speaker 1: you're a bad man. This is a movie about the
Speaker 1: worst kind of man, because he is and he feels
Speaker 1: entitled to her. He is extremely possessive. The second he
Speaker 1: meets her, she starts to view her as property. Something
Speaker 1: that I again on this viewing, that I noticed is
Speaker 1: like around a third of the time we see Zoe
Speaker 1: additional on screen, it's not even the character, it's him
Speaker 1: thinking about her. So we're seeing the construction of her
Speaker 1: almost as much as we're seeing the character. And whenever
Speaker 1: we see the actual character, it's usually an argument or
Speaker 1: it's usually she's being a bitch or like that's what
Speaker 1: the movie would have you believe, And the times where
Speaker 1: she's like soft and so in love with them, it's
Speaker 1: usually stuff that doesn't even happen, yeah, or or or
Speaker 1: at least, you know, a third of the time it's
Speaker 1: something that doesn't even happen. Literally like constructs her body
Speaker 1: and it's like I love this birthmark and your knees
Speaker 1: and like this part of your hair, and like the
Speaker 1: weird imperfection on your thing. And it's like, oh, you're
Speaker 1: just like literally just like pulled her body apart, and
Speaker 1: we're like, oh, these are the five parts of you
Speaker 1: that I would make into a soup and drink every day.
Speaker 1: Cool dude, It's like, I just want to turn you
Speaker 1: into a broth and share. They do this to Matthew
Speaker 1: Gray goobler anyway, Sorry, that's just been like on the
Speaker 1: tip of my tongue this whole time. I love goobs.
Speaker 1: I do not understand that reference. I love a little
Speaker 1: bit of goog He plays one of Joseph Gordon love
Speaker 1: It's terrible friends, the black curly hair guy or like
Speaker 1: the blondie, little Blondie. Paul, Yes, Paul, Paul, the Blondie.
Speaker 1: I love me some goobs. Give me the goob. I
Speaker 1: said it before, say it again, give me the goob.
Speaker 1: But his character is insufferable. His other friend, Mackenzie's character
Speaker 1: is insufferable, which so I want to go to that
Speaker 1: conversation where we aren't. So they are at a bar
Speaker 1: like a work function, singing karaoke. So it's summer, it's
Speaker 1: Tom and it's Mackenzie sitting in a booth and Mackenzie
Speaker 1: goes to summer. He's like, so, do you have a boyfriend?
Speaker 1: And she's like a no, and he's like why not.
Speaker 1: She says, because I don't want one, and he's like,
Speaker 1: come on, I don't believe that. And she says, you
Speaker 1: don't believe that a woman could enjoy being free and independent,
Speaker 1: and then he responds with are you a lesbian? She said, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not a lesbian. I just don't feel comfortable being
Speaker 1: anyone's girlfriend. I actually don't feel comfortable being anyone's anything.
Speaker 1: And then they talk a little bit more, and later
Speaker 1: on she says, I like being on my own. Relationships
Speaker 1: are messy. People's feelings get hurt. Who needs to be
Speaker 1: We're young, you might as well have some fun and
Speaker 1: do serious stuff later. And then Mackenzie says, holy sh it,
Speaker 1: you're a dude. You're such a dude for saying that.
Speaker 1: And it's and that, so we can assume the movie
Speaker 1: things that wanting to be single and not wanting to
Speaker 1: be in a relationship is a guy thing. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a guy quality. She's so cool, she's a man. Rightly,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like the guy's gal trove that shows
Speaker 1: up all the time, right of, like that's something to
Speaker 1: aspire to, like be devastatingly hot and have all these
Speaker 1: traditionally feminine qualities but also act like a dude, but
Speaker 1: don't look like why don't have a feeling? Don't yeah
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, just like be fucking cool, bef getting cool,
Speaker 1: but also be fucking hot, be cool in the exact
Speaker 1: way that I want you to be cool, like be
Speaker 1: completely aloof until like I desire you and then be
Speaker 1: so into me just like dude, right, it is it,
Speaker 1: but she like I forgot how explicitly she states it.
Speaker 1: But again it's like that there are those good moments
Speaker 1: in the movie that seemed like almost like it's a mistake,
Speaker 1: and then it's later weaponized against her as like she
Speaker 1: is a dude and like, you know, Joseph Gordon Levitt.
Speaker 1: And it's also so such a slippery slope for them
Speaker 1: to characterize Joseph Gordon Levitt's desire for a relationship as feminine,
Speaker 1: because the way he is in a relationship is scary
Speaker 1: and weird. And got there's that scene where the scene
Speaker 1: where they're in the elevator and he asks her like,
Speaker 1: how our weekend was, and she's like a little dodgy,
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to really want to talk to him, just
Speaker 1: like it was good. And then immediately he gets so
Speaker 1: mad she's not good enough for me anyways, She's a
Speaker 1: bit blah blah, she's sucking so much, and it's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, he calls her a skank again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, so god, there's there's a lot of Eliza
Speaker 1: scanning me at this point on Twitter, So I don't
Speaker 1: want to like me a friend of the She was saying,
Speaker 1: how like there are so many moments where she's just
Speaker 1: trying to be like early on where she's just like
Speaker 1: a woman trying to just navigate being polite to people
Speaker 1: in her office that he interprets as like one thing
Speaker 1: or another where it's like the Smiths thing. To her,
Speaker 1: she's probably like, oh, yeah, we're an elevator, let me
Speaker 1: just say something. Oh yeah, I also like the Smiths.
Speaker 1: And he was just like, oh, it's on yeah, And
Speaker 1: it's like how many times are you just like in
Speaker 1: a space with a guy and you're just like yeah, hey,
Speaker 1: I mean it makes small talk for a second, because
Speaker 1: it's weird to stand in silence with you, right, And
Speaker 1: it's just like so much of her is just trying
Speaker 1: to exist in a space and he's interpreting it, which
Speaker 1: is why he's such an unreliable narrator and why it's
Speaker 1: a problem for the movie to be like, hey, look
Speaker 1: how great this quiet is. But yeah, so she yeah,
Speaker 1: she's just like yeah, I like the Smiths too, And
Speaker 1: then she like exits the elevator and you see him
Speaker 1: like visibly sploshing in his pants, being like, oh, she
Speaker 1: loves me and I love her. God, yes, Morrisey's an assholes.
Speaker 1: That's great. Of course you love Morrisey. Piece of ships
Speaker 1: literally peaked Smith's fans. Absolutely, of course. I just have
Speaker 1: such a problem with the way the movie ascribes certain
Speaker 1: traits as being masculine and other traits as being feminine.
Speaker 1: Whereby she doesn't run a relationship, so she's a dude.
Speaker 1: That's a guy thing, and he wants a relationship, so
Speaker 1: that's almost like emasculating, and that's like him being feminine.
Speaker 1: And it's just like those qualities are not like mutually
Speaker 1: exclusive to any gender, and it's like so it subscribes
Speaker 1: to these like very rigid gender norms It's interesting because
Speaker 1: I feel like men and women have had very different
Speaker 1: actions to this movie, Like, at least based on my
Speaker 1: Twitter conversation, it's been defended vehemently by guys and like women,
Speaker 1: I think like a lot of women like especially as
Speaker 1: you get older and you watch it as you get older,
Speaker 1: you're kind of just like, I know this guy. We've
Speaker 1: we've all like known this dude, and like the way
Speaker 1: that they're sneaky about like how what piece of ship
Speaker 1: they are? They like hide it until they show it,
Speaker 1: and you're just like, yeah, no, this is like something
Speaker 1: I've had to like dodge my life and had to
Speaker 1: look out for. Like guys don't have these kind of
Speaker 1: warning signs to be looking out for another and like
Speaker 1: women like so I think they they're just like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: like it's just we're just watching two different movies. Because
Speaker 1: women are just like, well, yeah no, this is um,
Speaker 1: this is a to me, this is like a it's
Speaker 1: a warning manual for what not to go after, and
Speaker 1: men are just like, oh man, you can't have it all.
Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of people use this movie
Speaker 1: as a manual, but from very different things. Guys are like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is you know like they viewed Joseph Gordon Levitt.
Speaker 1: I like you're saying it's like scorned, mistreated. They're God.
Speaker 1: The scene where he's like, I say we're a couple,
Speaker 1: God damn it, and you're just like no, you know
Speaker 1: where is that where he runs down the staircase and
Speaker 1: he's like, no, you'll go ahead, and there's two women
Speaker 1: in the hallway and it's like you're an angry piece
Speaker 1: of ship. And then that scene is followed with her
Speaker 1: showing up at his door drenched from the rain and
Speaker 1: she's like, she's like, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have gotten
Speaker 1: mad at you. Because this all happens after he punches
Speaker 1: a guy at a bar because he threatens his masculinity.
Speaker 1: So there's a scene where a guy comes up tries
Speaker 1: to hit on Summer. She's very clear about saying I'm
Speaker 1: not interested. I'm flattered, but I have no interest. Please
Speaker 1: go over there and leave us alone. She handled it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was done, and the guys all like, really, this
Speaker 1: guy is your boyfriend, and then Joseph Gord Lovett stands
Speaker 1: up and punches him in the face and then gets
Speaker 1: punched back. Yeah, and she is very mad at him.
Speaker 1: Understandably so well, and she he punches that guy because
Speaker 1: he's not her boyfriend. He punches him because he can't
Speaker 1: punch her. Like, to me, it's like that that whole
Speaker 1: scene is just him being like, I'm not even the
Speaker 1: thing that you think I am. And then fuck you,
Speaker 1: Summer for not letting me be the thing, because it's
Speaker 1: like he calls so earlier, could have been like, hey,
Speaker 1: back off, dude, and then just like like there were
Speaker 1: moments that he could have also like backed her up,
Speaker 1: and he never backed her up. The only time that
Speaker 1: he got mad is when like he was called a
Speaker 1: boyfriend and he's not a boyfriend. Well, he only cares
Speaker 1: about her as it pertains to him. The outside of that,
Speaker 1: he has no interest in her, right, And on that note,
Speaker 1: we're to take a quick break. Everyone just take a lap,
Speaker 1: to take a lap, and we're back. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's so weird because it's like we're trying to have
Speaker 1: a conversation about Summer, but we literally don't know enough
Speaker 1: about her. We know these few tweet like next bus
Speaker 1: facts about her hair, her parents are divorced, she loves
Speaker 1: cutting her hair off because she feels nothing. Well, there's
Speaker 1: a divorced narrative too. I feel like it's used to
Speaker 1: be like, oh, well, that's why she doesn't believe in love.
Speaker 1: It's like maybe she just doesn't right, she doesn't need that.
Speaker 1: We see that also in The Holiday with Cameron Diaz.
Speaker 1: His character like Cameron Diaz, like her parents got divorced
Speaker 1: when she was fifteen, and her whole thing now is
Speaker 1: that she cannot cry. She has not cried since she
Speaker 1: was fifteen years old because she's so damaged from her
Speaker 1: parents being divorced twenty years ago directly. But yeah, so
Speaker 1: we see so, yeah, we we understand. I guess why
Speaker 1: she's so emotionally damaged, and it's because her parents split
Speaker 1: up when she was younger. It's a's all so crazy
Speaker 1: because everybody has friends whose parents are divorced, if their
Speaker 1: parents aren't worse themselves, who live perfectly fine lives, and
Speaker 1: it's just like such like a lie that It's like,
Speaker 1: it's really insulting. Yeah, it's lazy and insulting to make
Speaker 1: that like a thing that we know about her. There's
Speaker 1: a few scenes in this movie that I wanted to
Speaker 1: just go through because I feel like they have become
Speaker 1: like semi modern iconic in ways that are weird. The
Speaker 1: expectations versus reality scene like as constantly cited as as
Speaker 1: a joke at this point, but is something that comes
Speaker 1: up all the time, and I mean, I think we
Speaker 1: might have even covered it already, Brandy, because it's like,
Speaker 1: we don't see that from Summer's point of view. And
Speaker 1: that scene is very serving to the Joseph Gordon Levitt
Speaker 1: character where it gets a lot of sympathy for him,
Speaker 1: where he's like, he just wants a girlfriend, but he
Speaker 1: drinking a beer at the rooftop party alone, like he's
Speaker 1: at the rooftop party. An. There's scene that I loved
Speaker 1: the first time I saw it was the dance scene
Speaker 1: after he has sex with her, Yeah, which rung to
Speaker 1: you this time sinister as like a conquering kind of thing,
Speaker 1: right because she makes it clear. And the other the
Speaker 1: last iconic seen I wanted to talk about the Ikea
Speaker 1: scene where that was oh my god, when I was
Speaker 1: a teenager, forget it. I was like, this is the
Speaker 1: template for love. This is also something I can afford
Speaker 1: to do. Let's all go to barback. Can you imagine?
Speaker 1: Can you imagine the horrible teenagers? Just the sweaty, hormonal teenagers.
Speaker 1: The summer this movie came out just laying just spread
Speaker 1: eagling and dry humping all over the ikea. The poor
Speaker 1: summer of onine. Probably not a good time to be
Speaker 1: working at ikea. But she finger on top of none.
Speaker 1: But yes, but like she makes it clear to him
Speaker 1: in the ikea scene, she said, you know, she kind
Speaker 1: of establishes the boundary before they have sex, of like,
Speaker 1: this is fun, your fun, like, don't text me walls
Speaker 1: of text the second you leave my house kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Have a good time. This is fun, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's it seems pretty clear. It was not clear to
Speaker 1: me when I first saw it, but she does make
Speaker 1: that clear. And then he doesn't have sex with her,
Speaker 1: and then it's this yeah, the fucking returning conqueror sensitive Boy,
Speaker 1: where again the movie has no idea that it's doing this,
Speaker 1: but just the implication that that is, like he got
Speaker 1: what he wanted. Yeah, he was pursuing this like girl
Speaker 1: that he was pining over, and then when he finally
Speaker 1: gets to have sex with her, it was like the
Speaker 1: best moment of his life. Where there's like dancers in
Speaker 1: the street and marching band I passionless missionary. When ye
Speaker 1: passionless missionary. Oh god, nothing was going on. That was
Speaker 1: some really boring head round nonsense that was happening. Doesn't
Speaker 1: at one point like the only other relationship he had
Speaker 1: when he's like in fifth grade or something, that's like
Speaker 1: a line that they say, like yours. He's talking, he's
Speaker 1: saying that to his friend. He's like, you, you don't
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. The last girlfriend you had
Speaker 1: was in seventh grade. You dated for three hours, So
Speaker 1: we don't. We don't know a ton about Tom's but
Speaker 1: we do know a little bit about Summer's relationship history
Speaker 1: because he asks her about it and she's reluctant to
Speaker 1: talk about it, but he kind of presses her and
Speaker 1: she's like, okay, fine. And the one thing I want
Speaker 1: to mention about that is she's like, oh, for a
Speaker 1: brief time in college, there was Charlie. And it cuts
Speaker 1: to what his imagining of Charlie to look like, which
Speaker 1: is like a guy in a punk band or something
Speaker 1: like that, and then Summer says she was nice, and
Speaker 1: then his face goes what what what? And then it
Speaker 1: cuts to a woman in the same band. What is
Speaker 1: happening there? To me, is it's glossing over a queer relationship.
Speaker 1: She could not say less about this character Charlie Um.
Speaker 1: And it's also like a suggestion of oh, it happened
Speaker 1: in college, so it was just her experimenting. It was
Speaker 1: a phase, like very dismissive. And that leads me to
Speaker 1: so I want to go back to how characters talk
Speaker 1: about women, queer people, etcetera. For example, there is a
Speaker 1: moment where Tom is talking to his friends Paul Mackenzie,
Speaker 1: and they're all like, well, what's going on with you?
Speaker 1: And Summer like well, are you boyfriends or what in it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And Tom's like boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever, Like we're adults, we
Speaker 1: don't need to put labels on it. And the Mackenzie
Speaker 1: for no reason says you sound gay and Paul says
Speaker 1: you really do, and it's like what that was was
Speaker 1: baffling where I mean, it is like two thousand nine,
Speaker 1: and like I would say, we're peek no homo around
Speaker 1: this time, and this is not to just really take
Speaker 1: every opportunity to take a gigantic dump all over jut Apataw,
Speaker 1: but I will this was like around the time where
Speaker 1: the jutt Appataw no Homo was like unfolding where it
Speaker 1: was like, oh, men can be friends now as long
Speaker 1: as they constantly state that they could not be gay,
Speaker 1: and they always have to be when they're friends, they
Speaker 1: have to be shipping on women. But you know, real,
Speaker 1: real lateral move of like men are allowed to be friends,
Speaker 1: it's not gay to be friends as long as you're
Speaker 1: always saying it's not gay to be friends. The implication
Speaker 1: is that gays are bad and women are bad. I
Speaker 1: love that guy. Also demonstrated in Cool but totally, especially
Speaker 1: in Coach. There's a moment Korea, so we still need
Speaker 1: to talk about the sister character, but there's a moment
Speaker 1: where his sister is like giving him advice about like, oh,
Speaker 1: you just need to like ask her what you guys
Speaker 1: are doing when your relationship and he's like that sounds
Speaker 1: hard and she's like, just do it and just don't
Speaker 1: be a pussy. And it's like using that language calling
Speaker 1: a man a pussy is suggesting that he is weak
Speaker 1: and effeminine and bad especially and then like his twelve
Speaker 1: year old sister calling him a pussy, Like, so let's
Speaker 1: let's talk about that character. I don't even know if
Speaker 1: I have anything to say other than what an insufferable
Speaker 1: trope that I hate. It's awful. Yeah, we're it's so lazy.
Speaker 1: It's a way too for like usually male writers who
Speaker 1: don't know how to write children or you know, pre
Speaker 1: adolescent girls. Let's just make her wise beyond her years,
Speaker 1: make her know exactly how to be an adult. So
Speaker 1: we see this trope in a couple of the movies
Speaker 1: that I could think of off the top of my head,
Speaker 1: which was like the Nice Guys. I feel like this
Speaker 1: happens in Kick Ass, Paper Moon. People were talking about that. Um,
Speaker 1: I know it's other places. I just can't remember. Jeremy
Speaker 1: Jared McQuire kid is a real smart right, but I'm
Speaker 1: talking about specifically, like ten to thirteen year old girls
Speaker 1: who seemed to only hang out with adults, seem to
Speaker 1: know how to give the best advice for adult situations. Like,
Speaker 1: it's just such a lazy trophy. This character, she does
Speaker 1: not exist. You never met a twelve year old girl
Speaker 1: like that for sure. And it's just she's not even sweating.
Speaker 1: I'm like, twelve year old girls are never she's playing
Speaker 1: soccer and she's The line that she says is because
Speaker 1: she's giving him a relationship advice. She tells Tom, you
Speaker 1: don't want to ask her because you're afraid you'll get
Speaker 1: an answer that you don't want, which will shatter the
Speaker 1: illusion of how great the last few months will been.
Speaker 1: It's like that I'm not smart enough to say that,
Speaker 1: and I'm bitch, I'm thirty two. It's incredibly lazy. It's
Speaker 1: and the way it's using this character is kind of
Speaker 1: like she's not like the other girls in that kind
Speaker 1: of deal where I don't know, it's this whole movie
Speaker 1: is is very in cell, but it's for sure, Like honestly,
Speaker 1: I was like, there's a subreddit. We're just shitty little
Speaker 1: virgins just talk about this movie constantly and are just
Speaker 1: like good summer. Every summer is a stacy Like that's there. Yeah, there,
Speaker 1: it's a Chloe Grace morats. I mean, I feel for
Speaker 1: her because she seems like a smart young lady, but
Speaker 1: boy has she been thrown some real crumby parts since
Speaker 1: she was a very young girl. So bummer. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: that that character absolutely sucks and is like Anna is
Speaker 1: used to say mean things about women, is and is
Speaker 1: sold out by the male screenwriter to be like, well,
Speaker 1: if a girl says that women are bitches. Then it's
Speaker 1: like his little get out of jail free card. It's
Speaker 1: too mean coming from his grown aus adult male friends.
Speaker 1: So I guess we'll just have the little girls say
Speaker 1: and that's her whole purpose. It is just to be
Speaker 1: like another bro. And then the other tool I feel
Speaker 1: like he uses is like when the movie came out,
Speaker 1: it is the narrative does a lot to mask what
Speaker 1: a shitty guy Tom is. But another way they accomplished
Speaker 1: that is by giving him shitty er friends, um where
Speaker 1: they're like, well, he's the best one out of them,
Speaker 1: so of course you should settle for him. We haven't
Speaker 1: met a man who's better than him, but he's awful.
Speaker 1: He just happens to be the most you know, nice
Speaker 1: passing guy in in this movie where everyone else is
Speaker 1: just straight up they just which is almost more admirable,
Speaker 1: Like at least I know who you are. Where Tom God,
Speaker 1: the whole thing where he's sketching out the skyline, I'm like,
Speaker 1: do you know that architects build one building at a time?
Speaker 1: What the funk are you doing? There? Is there isn't
Speaker 1: how you're act. This is not how to be an architect.
Speaker 1: You're just painting your drunk skylines. It's us being an
Speaker 1: architect's I was like, is he going to is his
Speaker 1: dream to build twelve building? He just wants to build
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. That's history. Those buildings are already done. I
Speaker 1: just want to He's it's done. Yeah, I just want
Speaker 1: to sketch the most boring postcards. I think that's he's
Speaker 1: moving from greeting cards to postcards. In this scene where
Speaker 1: he's like this is bullshit and you know, and he's
Speaker 1: like lashing out at work. He's like, love is actually
Speaker 1: more complicated than a card, and it's like, wow, hot,
Speaker 1: take you genius. Yeah, what a fucking ned. He's basically
Speaker 1: a cop. I hate him. Yeah, definitely abolished in the
Speaker 1: In that monologue he's giving, he does say that it's
Speaker 1: like pop songs and green cards and movies that have
Speaker 1: like fed him the lies of what romances, which goes
Speaker 1: to show and it's also true in the very beginning,
Speaker 1: like the voiceovers saying that he had this belief that
Speaker 1: he wouldn't never be happy until he met the one,
Speaker 1: which them from sad British pop music and a total
Speaker 1: misreading of the movie The Graduate, which just goes to
Speaker 1: show how influential media is, how movies lead us astray
Speaker 1: all the time. I also, on that note, there's I
Speaker 1: guess a visual joke. It's a scene where Tom and
Speaker 1: Summer go to the movies and it shows the marquis
Speaker 1: of the movie that they're seeing and it reads part vampire,
Speaker 1: part giant the Giant, which I guess is supposed to
Speaker 1: be a vagina joke, but it's not my least favorite
Speaker 1: joke I've ever heard, and I have to that's something
Speaker 1: I have to fight. Yeah, I didn't care for that.
Speaker 1: The bar Is Solo. My favorite part of the movie
Speaker 1: is when it cuts to a screen that Han Solo
Speaker 1: is on and he gives a little wink. That was
Speaker 1: that part of the glimmer of Star Wars was my
Speaker 1: favorite part of Five Days of Summer. I like the goop.
Speaker 1: I honestly just kept watching and being like, you know,
Speaker 1: what to make this movie great? If like she took
Speaker 1: off her skin and was an alien. At one point,
Speaker 1: I just kept being like, what would make me like this?
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, if like all of her
Speaker 1: like I don't want a relationship is because she's she's
Speaker 1: just from Mark. Well. At one point whenever Tom is
Speaker 1: on the date with this other girl and I want
Speaker 1: to talk about that, so but he's all like, I
Speaker 1: can only come to two conclusions. She's either just an
Speaker 1: emotionless stupid bitch or she's a robot. And that would
Speaker 1: have been like, I wouldn't just like turned out to
Speaker 1: be Alminator. Yes, there that's a great I love that
Speaker 1: make that turn in the movie. I was like, where's
Speaker 1: that third act where she's just like and then she
Speaker 1: fights Mathra great done. I was reading um. I was
Speaker 1: just sort of going through some of the stuff that's
Speaker 1: been written about because a lot of people's viewing of
Speaker 1: this movie has changed over the years, rightfully. So I
Speaker 1: found an interesting post from I don't know what her
Speaker 1: full name is. Her name is Jen and she wrote
Speaker 1: a really wonderful, comprehensive piece about this and she names
Speaker 1: because the conversation around this movie is a very manic
Speaker 1: pixie dream girl, and that's true and that's present in
Speaker 1: a lot of movies. But she names the Joseph Gordon
Speaker 1: Levitt character depressive entitled Fantasy lad d f L. And
Speaker 1: I really like that because that's absolutely what he is.
Speaker 1: The entitlement is something that just never hit with me
Speaker 1: the first time I saw it. But it's so you
Speaker 1: know that line, I love how she makes me feel,
Speaker 1: you know, like he doesn't love her at all, and
Speaker 1: just that it's such a common thing in relationships coming
Speaker 1: from the man, especially just in my personal experience of
Speaker 1: like someone just having an idea of you and then
Speaker 1: getting to know you makes them angry, which is horrible,
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happens in this movie. The better
Speaker 1: he gets to know her, the less he likes her,
Speaker 1: because he doesn't actually like her. He wants he it's
Speaker 1: a specific thing, and has found the correct vessel to
Speaker 1: project onto. But also how could he like her because
Speaker 1: we know nothing about her, Like, nothing about her personality
Speaker 1: is really established. There's a moment towards the beginning there's
Speaker 1: more voiceover narration where the voiceover says there's only two
Speaker 1: kinds of people in the world. There's women and there's men,
Speaker 1: which one that fails to acknowledge that gender is a
Speaker 1: background and that there are many people. What about all
Speaker 1: the people who do not fall within that gender binary anyway, uh,
Speaker 1: And then it goes on to say that Summer Finn
Speaker 1: was a woman whenever she worked at an ice cream parlor,
Speaker 1: everyone went to it, and whenever she tries to rent
Speaker 1: an apartment, everyone gives her discount, and like all this
Speaker 1: stuff where I recently learned about the Mary Sue trope,
Speaker 1: and I was curious to see what you guys thought
Speaker 1: about whether or not she falls into that trope if
Speaker 1: you're not familiar Mary sus And it's kind hard to
Speaker 1: classify because a lot of people kind of interpret it
Speaker 1: different ways. But from what I gather, Mary Sue is
Speaker 1: a trope female character in which she is essentially perfect.
Speaker 1: She has no real discernible flaws. Her beauty is coveted
Speaker 1: by everyone. Everyone thinks she's marvelous and great. But aside
Speaker 1: from that, she's also just underdeveloped. Like those are the
Speaker 1: only things we really know about her. It's more common
Speaker 1: and I think fan fiction from what I understand this trope.
Speaker 1: But but there's also like Bella Swan is cited as
Speaker 1: like the quintessential Mary Sue, where like everyone loves her
Speaker 1: even though she's like ordinary, She's from Twilight. Oh I
Speaker 1: don't know, yes for sure, not for me. Look of
Speaker 1: sheer shut down rejection that came over Brandy's face just now,
Speaker 1: Oh no, no no, no, no no no, that's going
Speaker 1: to be now. But I guess I didn't hear that
Speaker 1: term until Fury wrote came out because Charlie's Throne's character.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe it's been around before that, but because
Speaker 1: to me, everyone was like trying to tear down that
Speaker 1: movie because Charlie's character is is a Mary interesting. That's that.
Speaker 1: That's how I think of it as like more of
Speaker 1: like an action In my head, it's more of like
Speaker 1: an action here, like she could she has all of
Speaker 1: the skills to solve a plot point kind of. I
Speaker 1: became aware of it through yes, super hero movies of
Speaker 1: like the token woman in an action movie or the
Speaker 1: token woman in a superhero hero movie, because that is
Speaker 1: like almost uniformly the case until very recently and still
Speaker 1: sometimes Anyways, Okay, yes, I think there are those kind
Speaker 1: of different interpretations where I also, I like watched a
Speaker 1: video where people were saying that Ray from the New
Speaker 1: Star Wars is a Merry Sue type because she can
Speaker 1: do everything right away and she's perfect and everyone loves her.
Speaker 1: But I don't necessarily think Summer fits this guy. And
Speaker 1: the more like I was watching it this time, I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily even know that she is a manic pixie
Speaker 1: dream girl in the way that like Natalie poor Man
Speaker 1: is in or Kristen Dunson Elizabethtown was like where the
Speaker 1: was the source of Nathan Raybond, the writer for The
Speaker 1: A V Club, even naming the trope. But because she's
Speaker 1: not manic is the thing. But she I would say,
Speaker 1: is a pixie dream girl. But that's because we see
Speaker 1: her so often in someone else's thoughts, you know, where
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know the character itself. It seems
Speaker 1: like there's more there that the movie just isn't interested in.
Speaker 1: So I don't really know what to do with that
Speaker 1: where it seems like there is like some complex stuff
Speaker 1: about her that Tom never inquires into because he doesn't
Speaker 1: really care. Yeah, so we see her as a manic
Speaker 1: pixie dream girl, or at least a pixie dream girl.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that that's actually what the character
Speaker 1: is wants. Yeah, that's what he wants. He wants her
Speaker 1: to be that, so he's like he stops looking beyond.
Speaker 1: He's just like your favorite beetles ringo, you're such a
Speaker 1: pixie dream girl. Meanwhile, I don't know who his favorite
Speaker 1: Beetle is fucking coward. How about you match it and
Speaker 1: you tell me who you think is the no. You
Speaker 1: know he likes Lennon because he wants to hit a
Speaker 1: woman really bad. For sure. He's definitely a John Lennon guy.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love John Lennon and Morrissey and they're
Speaker 1: just like really good. God. It's it's like, oh, are
Speaker 1: you also investing in crypto? You fucking psycho? He loves bitcoin? God,
Speaker 1: he loves crypto. Yeah, that should be added to that
Speaker 1: an entitled bitcoin bro, Lad you accept crypto for this?
Speaker 1: Morrissey Vinyl, Hi, I'm a murderer? Like, can we talk
Speaker 1: about the one of the only other female characters in
Speaker 1: this movie, which is the girl that he goes on
Speaker 1: a date with after he's been broken up with. This
Speaker 1: character's name is Alison. Um, how that that's her first mistake?
Speaker 1: She should have been new Moon. Her name is January
Speaker 1: and um. So they go in to day. He treats
Speaker 1: her like absolute shit. Um. He tells her very upfront,
Speaker 1: saying this isn't going anywhere because basically, I'm in love
Speaker 1: with someone else. He only talks about summer. He only
Speaker 1: talks about how he's heartbroken over her, and then we
Speaker 1: see a moment where she's like, Okay, let me get
Speaker 1: this straight. She never cheated on you, she never took
Speaker 1: advantage of you, and she told you upfront that she
Speaker 1: didn't want a boyfriend. And we as the audience, were like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe he's going to come to a realization at the moment,
Speaker 1: and instead he goes, I have a great idea, let's
Speaker 1: go to sing karaoke. So like you see him continue
Speaker 1: to be the entitled guy that he is, having no
Speaker 1: self awareness, having no idea how he has approached this
Speaker 1: whole relationship with Summer has been completely wrong and entitled
Speaker 1: and bad. Yeah, yeah, he learns nothing. Poor Yeah Alison,
Speaker 1: she didn't do anything wrong. She was so patient with him.
Speaker 1: She was good for her for second locationing with him, right,
Speaker 1: Like I would have been like, I think I've done.
Speaker 1: I really saw Alison do some serious emotional labor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for a strange man who hated her, which it's like
Speaker 1: I've been Allison. I don't know. I think we have
Speaker 1: probably have ever gone in a day with the man
Speaker 1: who's like, let me talk about my ex girlfriend the
Speaker 1: whole time and also I hate you, Like, oh cool,
Speaker 1: I'll sank six months into this, let's do Also, it's
Speaker 1: a former karaoke host. This guy for sure doesn't tip.
Speaker 1: You can tell he's not a tip definitely not to
Speaker 1: see it in all of his choices. He has a
Speaker 1: four Chan account like this, there's something wrong with this man. Also,
Speaker 1: like one of the many points where I had to
Speaker 1: be like, do not check out? It was also when
Speaker 1: she's sang sugar Land or whatever, that song with sugar
Speaker 1: Sugartown Nancy. Yeah, she's saying Sugartown. But they didn't have
Speaker 1: born to run in the karaokee, right, it was just
Speaker 1: a way to drop. I also like Bruce Ringstein, how
Speaker 1: dare you how as a former kJ, that's not how
Speaker 1: the books work. Karaoke jockey. Yeah, that's what we're called kJ.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that that wasn't included in your intro. I
Speaker 1: was going to plug it in the outro, Ladies, your
Speaker 1: former kJ, just like a former kJ. Yeah, that just
Speaker 1: made that. I was like, she has to sing the
Speaker 1: tweetest song just to like make her like even more,
Speaker 1: you know, like ethereal and everything. Right, Well, the song
Speaker 1: that she chooses as a frequent karaoke attendee a k A.
Speaker 1: If you will. You want other people to sing fun
Speaker 1: songs that you can sing along too, and I'll have
Speaker 1: an uproarious time. Her song choice is stupid, like, no
Speaker 1: one wants to sing along with that. No one's having
Speaker 1: a good time with that song. Rude, yeah anyway, and
Speaker 1: hot karaoke takes. I'm too scared to do karaoke. I'm
Speaker 1: a baby, really, I've never done it. But the trick
Speaker 1: is you have to get really drunk. I'm good at that,
Speaker 1: not the karaoke part, I don't know. I want to
Speaker 1: talk about the scene that happens in the copy room.
Speaker 1: After that. There's a surprise kiss in this movie where
Speaker 1: it's the Friday night where they're all at karaoke. His
Speaker 1: drunk friend Mackenzie is like, he likes you, account for sure,
Speaker 1: he's h now and then whenever Summer's like, is that true?
Speaker 1: Do you like me? Joseph Gordon Levitt's like, no, his
Speaker 1: friends maybe, but like you because he's an immature little asshole.
Speaker 1: Then the weekend passes and they're in the office together
Speaker 1: in the copy room. They kind of look at each
Speaker 1: other and then she just like saunters up to him.
Speaker 1: And plants a right on his face. First of all,
Speaker 1: this is there at work not appropriate technically assment, workplace harassment,
Speaker 1: and you know he's into it because he fucking loves
Speaker 1: her or loves the idea of her. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just like really, that's how so much of it. It
Speaker 1: was also like looking back as it is recollections of
Speaker 1: him I'm always have with the movie, I was like,
Speaker 1: is any of this even the way things happened and true?
Speaker 1: Like is this all just like your memory of like?
Speaker 1: And then she saundered up to me and she fucking
Speaker 1: planted one on me in the copy room? How ordered
Speaker 1: it happen? Where he was like leering over her? And
Speaker 1: then she turned around and he was like, oh her
Speaker 1: turning around me? She wants to kiss? Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: I kissed her and then she was was my ward
Speaker 1: for Also it's it's fully two days of summer and
Speaker 1: then two hundred ten days of Joseph Gordon Levitt not
Speaker 1: being able to accept a breakup. They break up on
Speaker 1: day two ninety and then he stalks her and then
Speaker 1: can we talk at where the movie leaves off? This
Speaker 1: is Juseph Cornlovitt decide he's gonna build five buildings, he
Speaker 1: draws another skyline. He's like, me going to get a job.
Speaker 1: I was like, for what for? You have to pick one?
Speaker 1: And they can't be believed that are already to design
Speaker 1: your own Building's so stupid. He has not had an
Speaker 1: original thought in the entire movie, and that includes being
Speaker 1: an architect. It's like stid. But there's a scene at
Speaker 1: the end where he was once again drawing buildings that
Speaker 1: already exist outside and sees summer and she's in a
Speaker 1: new relationship because she has to be in a relationship
Speaker 1: and he kind of got good luck chucked where she
Speaker 1: met someone who wasn't a total I mean maybe he
Speaker 1: is a total choked. We don't know because the movie
Speaker 1: doesn't care about summer. But she's like, I'm with someone now,
Speaker 1: I'm in a relationship and I'm happy. And I think
Speaker 1: that this is a sticking point for a lot of
Speaker 1: the insults who were like she was she she was lying,
Speaker 1: she did want a relationship the whole time, and she
Speaker 1: was just leading him on. Well, she never leads him on.
Speaker 1: She always tells him that she doesn't want to be
Speaker 1: in a relationship. But then probably because he sucks, and
Speaker 1: then at the end, he's the hero because he's able
Speaker 1: to sort of accept it and now he's going to
Speaker 1: build a building that exists already. Yeah, exactly, I hate him,
Speaker 1: And again we're meant to believe, Like whenever they meet
Speaker 1: up again at the park towards the end of the
Speaker 1: Five Days of Summer, you know, she's like, HiPE, somebody's wife.
Speaker 1: How crazy is that? It was fate? I just knew
Speaker 1: when he like, he's the one, And the movie frames
Speaker 1: it so that the audience is supposed to think, oh man,
Speaker 1: what a what a bitch for not choosing him? What
Speaker 1: a bitch for not choosing Tom, this sensitive, wonderful guy
Speaker 1: that we've grown to love, And it's like no, Like
Speaker 1: the movie so irresponsibly frames so many of those scenes
Speaker 1: and situations like that, and you know, when we revisit
Speaker 1: this movie, we realize, oh no, Like, yeah, he is
Speaker 1: the bad guy. He is a possessive for creep. Well,
Speaker 1: even like the way that she talks in that scene
Speaker 1: feels like him telling Mackenzie what happened at the park
Speaker 1: to be like I know, I'm a wife. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: This whole bangs take place in his head, Like do
Speaker 1: we ever actually meet Summer, the whole. It's just like
Speaker 1: the most insufferable being John Malcolvic of all time inside
Speaker 1: like the head of a insult. I do want to see,
Speaker 1: like somewhere like talking to her friends of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a guy on dating and just like whatever. It's
Speaker 1: just because I don't know. I've been in situations like
Speaker 1: that where I'm like, yeah, just like really nothing else
Speaker 1: is happening, and you know, I don't think he's gonna
Speaker 1: kill me. I can't. Sometimes I'm just like I don't
Speaker 1: think he's gonna murder me, and they're so sure, great, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems like it would be more trouble because he's
Speaker 1: an emotional psychopath and so it would be more difficult
Speaker 1: to break off than just like have sex with him
Speaker 1: every once in a while and appeas this emotional vampire.
Speaker 1: Um exactly. That's how I picture her talking about him, like, well,
Speaker 1: he bought me Swedish meatballs once, so he has two dollars,
Speaker 1: so that's fine. I want to talk more about that
Speaker 1: I Kia scene where when they're like goofing around, they're out,
Speaker 1: they're having fun and their sink is broken and like
Speaker 1: t they're lying on a bed at one point and
Speaker 1: then he looks up and he's like, Summer, I don't
Speaker 1: know how to tell you this, but there's a Chinese
Speaker 1: family in our bathroom. And then it cuts to this
Speaker 1: family and they're like and then they walk away, And
Speaker 1: it's just another example of how the white, straight characters
Speaker 1: in this movie talk disparagingly about marginalized people, where it's like, one,
Speaker 1: how do you know they're Chinese? Specifically, to like that's
Speaker 1: played for a joke, is in like, oh, what's this
Speaker 1: ethnic family doing here? Ruining our perfect white head moment? Exactly?
Speaker 1: Why would they want to look in a bedroom? Right?
Speaker 1: Why would they be in a Swedish blonde store? And
Speaker 1: this movie is painfully Caucasian. That Nicole Brown is in
Speaker 1: it for a second, yes, and her talents are way
Speaker 1: underused because I love her. I think she's very funny's great.
Speaker 1: But and then there's there's a moment in the park
Speaker 1: where they're screaming penis over and over again, and then
Speaker 1: people are like, why are they screaming penis? And they're like,
Speaker 1: it's okay, we have touretts and it's like, no, okay,
Speaker 1: you're making fun of a disability. Now, cool? There's another
Speaker 1: moment when they're also like, you're not in tenth grade,
Speaker 1: like you know, I hate, like they're like in their
Speaker 1: late twenties. Yeah, if you can vote, you can't play
Speaker 1: the Penis game anymore. I'm sorry, you're done. I love
Speaker 1: that limitation. I hate I remember after that where boys
Speaker 1: were doing that again at school, and you know, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm a grown adult and I have been since I
Speaker 1: was thirteen years old. I do not play the penis
Speaker 1: game bag and yeah, that's I guess that's all I have. Also,
Speaker 1: why is it got to be the Penis game? Why
Speaker 1: can the Vagiana? Yeah? Yeah, that feels that I don't
Speaker 1: I don't want to either grow up. I do want
Speaker 1: to go see the movie The Giant. Yeah, what's it about?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't wait to do our episode
Speaker 1: on teeth. Oh yes, that'll be a thrill. There's also
Speaker 1: a moment where Tom is on the phone with Mackenzie
Speaker 1: and he's like, are you coming to this wedding? And
Speaker 1: Mackenzie's like, I'm not going to go to the wedding.
Speaker 1: It's going to be old people, because old people are gross.
Speaker 1: Old people also turned out to be code for black. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that wedding is very weird. I was like, what's happening.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do with this information because
Speaker 1: they're the basically the only two white people are like
Speaker 1: an all African American wedding, and I was like, what
Speaker 1: is this choice? Who's whose wedding was that? That was
Speaker 1: some of their colleagues, co workers. I was like, what
Speaker 1: did you realize you needed to be diverse? And you're like, well,
Speaker 1: we have the weddings, we have one scene. Yeah, put
Speaker 1: all the black people in one the wedding scene, and
Speaker 1: none of them get to talk or you know, have
Speaker 1: any planning significant role in the story. It's like dressing.
Speaker 1: It's the West Anderson thing of using minority as a
Speaker 1: set dressing, so that if anyone ever challenges why are
Speaker 1: there only white people in your movie, he's like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: they're in the background all the time, you know, like
Speaker 1: and where they're in the background, not talking, not having
Speaker 1: any characterization. Also, we're saying that Mark Webb, who is
Speaker 1: just the throbbing chowd behind this movie, has gone on
Speaker 1: to have a very successful film career. He directed the
Speaker 1: Andrew Garfield Spider Man movies. Those are bad, though, especially
Speaker 1: the second one, he's bad. And last year he made
Speaker 1: a movie that I couldn't get through. I tried to
Speaker 1: go see as a joke and I could not get
Speaker 1: through it. That movie gifted about the child we're talking about,
Speaker 1: the like the really smart kid, like it is kid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean on that note, this movie is
Speaker 1: directed by a man, written by two men. It's the
Speaker 1: story is being told through the lens of this male character.
Speaker 1: It's like so much bad effective to Yeah, yeah, it's crazy,
Speaker 1: like it would have been. This movie would have been
Speaker 1: interesting with a female director to like tamper some of
Speaker 1: that and to be like, let's balance this more and
Speaker 1: like there's a way to tell this story correctly. Sure,
Speaker 1: you know, but not this movie. This is not it.
Speaker 1: I do Yeah, I do want to see a version
Speaker 1: of this movie where he's punished. Yeah, absolutely, what's out
Speaker 1: one of her tendrils at the end. It's just like
Speaker 1: I was marsh and the whole time. Slurp, chomp, chump jump.
Speaker 1: Does anyone have any other final thoughts about this movie?
Speaker 1: This movie is bad. People should stop watching it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not a fun hate watch. It is just it's
Speaker 1: it sucks and it'll remind you of a version of
Speaker 1: yourself you won't like very much. Yeah. The movie was
Speaker 1: like very well reviewed when it came out, big success.
Speaker 1: My favorite glowing review of this movie was that it
Speaker 1: was the best romantic comedy since love. Actually, great movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really I scream wrapping a little reviews because they
Speaker 1: made me very, very freaking angry. This is great. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you never ever truly figure out why these mysterious creatures
Speaker 1: break your heart. That for a line, mysterious creatures being
Speaker 1: robot slash alien. Yeah, I will say. The World Socialist
Speaker 1: website gave it a negative review. They're very they're very
Speaker 1: smart for doing that. They were like, this is bad.
Speaker 1: It sucks. I mean it sucks from every angle to
Speaker 1: where it's like lazily written bad for women, bad for men,
Speaker 1: bad for the entire spectrum of gender is punished in
Speaker 1: this movie. It's a bad, punishing experience. Yeah, everyone loved it,
Speaker 1: and it's it's also like tries to play itself off
Speaker 1: as like I feel like now the damage control has
Speaker 1: been but it's satire and it's like it's not. It's
Speaker 1: it's not it's never the intent. That's not the intent
Speaker 1: of this movie at all. Comments on nothing. Nothing is
Speaker 1: subverted by this movie. One of my Twitter chodes was like,
Speaker 1: it's like it's just like Starship Troopers. And I'm like, hello,
Speaker 1: how dare you? Number one? Do not come? Starship Troopers
Speaker 1: do not come? Ever, Yeah, you don't deserve to come.
Speaker 1: You're done, You're done coming. Um. But he was like,
Speaker 1: it's a satire just like that, and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's not that's not the point of it. I guess
Speaker 1: I need to revisit Starship Troopers. It's pretty fun, right
Speaker 1: that one probably actually does pass the back. I'll test.
Speaker 1: I think I'd be surprised. I'd be interested in that. Well,
Speaker 1: speaking of it's like I love a good transition. Tell
Speaker 1: you know my good podcast that was like, I see
Speaker 1: the clock, I see where we're going. So Stranger does
Speaker 1: five hundred Days of Summer pass the back to test?
Speaker 1: I don't think we avoided it. Yeah, really goes out
Speaker 1: of its way. And I don't think two female characters
Speaker 1: even interact in this entire movie. I think this movie
Speaker 1: is over if two women talk this movie, because they'd
Speaker 1: be like, um, Joseph Gordon Levitt is kind of a
Speaker 1: fucking jerk. And then there and then you know, we
Speaker 1: cut it off at day four and I'll go home. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, you're right. Imagine the conversation between Allison, the
Speaker 1: girl that he goes on one date with, and Summer
Speaker 1: and they just like, remember when we like spent any
Speaker 1: time with that guy? He sucks. He's another guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like in retrospect Joseph Gordon Levitt, it's like, oh, remember
Speaker 1: that weird guy at work who was obsessed with you. Man,
Speaker 1: he's trying to be an architect now, but I don't
Speaker 1: think he knows what he's doing. He just draws skyline
Speaker 1: existing building, Yeah, just buildings that are already there. Doesn't
Speaker 1: fundamentally went to school for it. I just don't know
Speaker 1: how he has a degree. They're already exists, they're done.
Speaker 1: He's just drawing the World Trade centered over and over again.
Speaker 1: What's it's empty point of building? Yes, and then make one. Also,
Speaker 1: you know that iconic l A skyline. So this movie
Speaker 1: does really want to take place in New York very badly,
Speaker 1: very badly. Shall we rate the movie on our nipple scale?
Speaker 1: So we rate the movie based on its portrayal of women,
Speaker 1: a zero to five nipple rating scale. I'm going to
Speaker 1: go ahead and give it. I'll say a one nipple.
Speaker 1: I'm giving it that many and not fewer, because I
Speaker 1: do like that for a split second. If we just
Speaker 1: kind of ignore all the other context of the movie,
Speaker 1: we see representation of a woman who is not like
Speaker 1: marriage obsessed and not going gaga over, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to find a boyfriend. But because that trait of hers
Speaker 1: is demonized in this movie and made to seem like
Speaker 1: she's a bit because she doesn't want to instantly marry
Speaker 1: Joseph Gordon Levitt's character. That is one of the many
Speaker 1: problems of this movie. Smell is also extremely white, extremely hetero.
Speaker 1: It doesn't do as badly as some movies we've seen
Speaker 1: in queer bashing, but it's certainly not an ally that
Speaker 1: there's no queer character. So unless you count summers one
Speaker 1: queer relationship in college, which again is so glossed over
Speaker 1: that we can hardly even begin to understand what that was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's just it's us supposed to be sympathizing with
Speaker 1: an extremely entitled, possessive guy who the movie would want
Speaker 1: you to think is this supersensitive, wonderful person, when in
Speaker 1: reality he sucks and Summer's character is wildly underdeveloped. The
Speaker 1: sister care her is that stupid trope that's really done.
Speaker 1: Troupe does not no twelve year old girls are like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's just so many problems with it. And I give
Speaker 1: it one nipple, and that nipple belongs to I guess Allison,
Speaker 1: the girl that he goes on one date with and
Speaker 1: treats like ship. She deserves more. And yeah, she was
Speaker 1: like the one rational female character that we see. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: I'm giving this movie no nipples at all. I would
Speaker 1: give it negative if I could. I stand for Zoe
Speaker 1: Desanelle and that I find her to be more sympathetic
Speaker 1: than and and whatever already went through that. But I
Speaker 1: think seeing this movie as a teenager had a negative
Speaker 1: effect on my life, and I resent that it affected
Speaker 1: for sure, my behaviors around boys. Uh, it affected how
Speaker 1: I would allow my self to be treated. And like
Speaker 1: where it's like you see a movie where and then
Speaker 1: this is I mean, this movie is not the sole
Speaker 1: source of this, but just like because I was the
Speaker 1: exact right age to get all the wrong messages from
Speaker 1: this movie when it came out, and so was everyone
Speaker 1: I went to school with. Yeah, I mean it it
Speaker 1: affected the way I've viewed myself. It affected the way
Speaker 1: I assigned value in a relationship. Yeah, I think that
Speaker 1: it just it. It did nothing good for anyone, and
Speaker 1: it did make Joseph Gordon Levitt a huge star, and
Speaker 1: then he went on to play the role a million
Speaker 1: times and no one ever gave him trouble about it. Anyways,
Speaker 1: this movie fucking sucks and I have no nipples to give.
Speaker 1: I will give it also zero nipples, or like I
Speaker 1: had a breast production a few years ago, I'll give
Speaker 1: it the leavings of my old You get a couple
Speaker 1: of You get my tips, scraps. That's all you deserve,
Speaker 1: because you should be confronted with something that is real
Speaker 1: at some point, so that's what you get. The only
Speaker 1: way that you should be allowed to watch this movie
Speaker 1: is what a woman in your thirties sitting next to
Speaker 1: you with a remote control that they can pause and
Speaker 1: then hit you with the newspaper if you agree with
Speaker 1: something that just happened. It's the only way that you
Speaker 1: can watch this movie. Everyone. See if Brandy will agree
Speaker 1: to watch this movie with you, remember her a million
Speaker 1: dollars and maybe she consider it. I would love to
Speaker 1: watch you watch us. Really, I was just angrily petting
Speaker 1: my dog, just like you just became a therapy animal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this movie is garbage. It's it's done. I wash my
Speaker 1: hands of it. Yeah. Well, Brandy, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming on this journey with us. Has of talking
Speaker 1: about summer. Where can people follow you online? What would
Speaker 1: you like to plug? On Twitter and Instagram? At brand
Speaker 1: Dazzle you can find me air um. And then my
Speaker 1: website is Brandy Posey dot com and that has all
Speaker 1: my tour dates and deats I do. I'm on the
Speaker 1: road like four or five months out of the year,
Speaker 1: so I go all over the place. I'm a stand
Speaker 1: up so um, I'm pretty fun. Live, come hang out.
Speaker 1: I promise, I'm promise, I'm a good time. And then
Speaker 1: I have a podcast called Lady to Lady that's myself,
Speaker 1: Barbara Gray and Test Barker and we have like a
Speaker 1: different guest on every week and you guys have both
Speaker 1: put on. Yeah, it's a real it's a real, real,
Speaker 1: silly fun time. We just kind of gab and have
Speaker 1: a good time and basically live our live a Beackdale life.
Speaker 1: At all times. It feels feels real good. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: find me there. Um, I have a show in l
Speaker 1: a monthly called Picture This that's comedians paired up with
Speaker 1: the animators and they live animate your jokes behind you
Speaker 1: during their set and it's very silly and it's The
Speaker 1: Virgil Monthly. And then we do that around the country
Speaker 1: a little bit too. But brand as Ale and Brandy
Speaker 1: posey dot com has all that info. And of course,
Speaker 1: don't forget your illustrious career as a k J Yes
Speaker 1: karaoke yea. Where where did you kJ back in the day? J?
Speaker 1: All Star Lanes and that's us. I like that place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: bowling alley, dive bar, karaoke lounge, Chinese restaurant. It's a
Speaker 1: really great um. You can follow us the Bechtel Cast
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook at Becktel Cast. You can subscribe
Speaker 1: to our Matreon. It's five dollars a month and you
Speaker 1: get to bonus episodes every single month. It's August, so
Speaker 1: that means on the on the Matreon. This month, we've
Speaker 1: got the episode everyone's been asking for Doubt. We have
Speaker 1: a Doubt, and then we'll also have hackers because Caitlin
Speaker 1: is being very patient with me. This month, let's your birthday,
Speaker 1: your birthday months. So I got to pick my favorite movie,
Speaker 1: Doubt and a movie I haven't seen, Hackers. So go
Speaker 1: to the Matreon for all of that, and you can
Speaker 1: go to our website becktel cast dot com and we've
Speaker 1: got all kinds of merch there at our episodes there.
Speaker 1: Just yeah, check us out online. And I'm going to
Speaker 1: go sketch a building that exists. I'm gonna go talk
Speaker 1: to a Latin next person in Los Angeles at some
Speaker 1: point today. Yes, please God, it took place in Los
Speaker 1: Angeles and it did it. Goodness, well, you know, blessings,
Speaker 1: good tidings to you, bless your heart, God, bless us everyone.
Speaker 1: Goodbye bye