1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: While renting a room in Selinas, California, a woman named 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: ruth Anne supported her drug habit and her thirteen year 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: old daughter Jamie with welfare and prostitution. James King previously 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: rented a room in the same house, where he still 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: received mail and maintained friendships, including with ruth Anne's boyfriend 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: Eric Barton and the landlord Doug do Bell. James would 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: come by occasionally to pick up his mail and socialize, 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: as he did on August first, nineteen ninety seven, for 9 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: the Selena's Airshow. A few days later, while Landlord Dug 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: do Bell was in Las Vegas, James intervened when he 11 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: saw ruth Anne trying to sell Doug's mobed. Ruth Anne, 12 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: who had already pawned Doug's TV, threatened James that she 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: would get back at him if he ever told Doug. 14 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: When Doug returned from Vegas on August eleventh, James found 15 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: himself accused of stealing Doug's TV, which he firmly denied 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,959 Speaker 1: while reporting the story about ruth Anne and the moped. 17 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: When Eric Barton confirmed that ruth Anne was the culprit, 18 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: James found him self accused once again, this time for 19 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: the alleged August first sexual assault of thirteen year old Jamie, 20 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 1: during which time he allegedly ejaculated on a tan carpet. 21 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: When confronted with a carpet testing negative for seamen, the 22 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: young girl said that her dog must have eaten it. 23 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: She later changed the story to a blue carpet that 24 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: Dobell confirmed did not exist. Despite these glaring red flags, 25 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: that DA used Jamie's story and a medical experts testimony 26 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: that has since been characterized as absurd to send James 27 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: away from thirty five years to life. This is Wrongful 28 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: Conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with 29 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: Jason Flamm. Today you're going to hear a story that 30 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: is disturbing in so many ways. This story is the 31 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: story of a man who's been in prison for a 32 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: quarter century for a crime that never happened. And it's 33 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: got so many lies in it that you'll you may 34 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: need a pen and paper to keep track of the lies. 35 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just absolutely breathtaking the web that was 36 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: woven in order to not only convict, but also keep 37 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: this innocent man in prison for this long. The attorney 38 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: is Ian Graham. He's a civil rights attorney with Cravis 39 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: Graham and Zucker in California. Ian. Welcome to Ronful Conviction. 40 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 2: Thanks Jason. It's a real pleasure to be here. 41 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,119 Speaker 1: And soon you'll be hearing the phone ring and we'll 42 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: be hearing from the man himself, James King, will be 43 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: calling in from the California Men's Colony, which is a 44 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like sort of a benign name 45 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: for a place that is no place for an innocent 46 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: man to be. Oh, and here we go. We're going 47 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: to our call right. 48 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 3: Now, Globe, I have a prepaid call from Jeans, an 49 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 3: inmate at the California Men's Colony, San Luis Obispo, California. 50 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 3: This call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded. 51 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 3: To accept this call, say or dial five now. Thank 52 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 3: you for using Global tail Link. 53 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: Hello James, Hi, finally get to talk to you. Well, 54 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're here too, even though I really 55 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: hate why you're here or more to the point, where 56 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 1: you are. 57 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 4: Thank you. 58 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: So tell us a bit about your life growing up. 59 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I grew up in Actually I was born 60 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 4: in Germany. My dad was in the army for twenty 61 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 4: five years and We came back to the United States 62 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 4: when I was like six years old, and then we 63 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 4: moved to California, and I've been in California all my life. 64 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: So you grew up in a military family. And we've 65 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: spoken with your mom, Lilyan, many times, and it sounds 66 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: like you had a relatively normal life working in the 67 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: moving business until you had a run in with the 68 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: off for burglary. Now that's a serious crime, but when 69 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: you hear the details of it, it was actually a 70 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: bit more benign than it sounds. 71 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 4: The coly three hundred dollars. So I was mad and 72 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 4: I shouldn't have done it, and I went in the 73 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 4: house and took a VCR. When I took it, I 74 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 4: even called her and told her I took your VCR 75 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 4: and she called the police call me. That's how that happened, 76 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 4: and they got me for burglary. So I had to 77 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 4: plead guilty to it. I got a year in prison 78 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 4: for that. That was all it was to it. And 79 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 4: I should never done that. 80 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 1: So, Okay, you knew this person and they owed you money, 81 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: and you obviously shouldn't have done that. You've acknowledged that 82 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: that was a dumb thing to do. But now you've 83 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: got one strike for burglary. 84 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 4: But I have no six grimes in my life at all, man, 85 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 4: not even allegations that I've done anything right. 86 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: So this was a non sexual crime. So why did 87 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: I even bring it up, you might be asking yourself. Well, 88 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: at the time, with the newly minted nineteen ninety four 89 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: crime bill, what this meant was that you had one 90 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: strike against you, so a second offense would mean doubling 91 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: any sentence. But for now, you just got the one 92 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: year sentenced. So you get out, go back to the 93 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: moving business, doing odd jobs, and you're renting a room 94 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: from a man named Doug Dobell and Salinas, California. 95 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was living in dougle Bill's out for about 96 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 4: seven months and I moved out and got my old place. 97 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 4: It was in ninety seventh and I was leaving this 98 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 4: Selenas at the time. When I moved out, I still 99 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 4: stay friends with Doug, and I had to go over 100 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 4: there and get my meal every day because I did 101 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 4: not had my male swish. I just kept it there 102 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 4: at Doug's house, all right. 103 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: So you were also doing some odd jobs for Doug. 104 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: You two guys had a mutual friend, Eric Barton, who 105 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: was dating a woman who had just begun renting a 106 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: room from Doug. And her name was ruth Ann, a 107 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: woman who threw her own admission had suffered from manic depression, 108 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: borderline multiple personality disordered drug addiction, all while struggling to 109 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: support her drug habit and her thirteen year old daughter, 110 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: Jamie with the help of welfare and prostitution. So, now, 111 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: ian this brings us to the summer of nineteen ninety 112 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: seven at Doug Dobell's house. 113 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 2: So, in the summer of nineteen ninety seven, there were 114 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: four or five people living there. In addition to Jamie 115 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 2: and ruth Anne, there was a woman named Bonnie Roman, 116 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 2: her husband and Bonnie's brother I believe named Eli Roman. 117 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 2: So on August first, nineteen ninety seven, James goes by 118 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: Dobell's house. I believe it was the day of the 119 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 2: Salinas Air Show. So he was going over to see Dobell. 120 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 2: And you know, he knew ruth Ann a little bit, 121 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 2: and you know, have a few beers for the air show. 122 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: And so he goes into the house and Eric Barton 123 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: is occupied in the bedroom with ruth Ann. 124 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 4: Ruthann wanted me to go to the store for her 125 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 4: and hit some beer for her. She didn't have a car, 126 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 4: her car was broke down, so nice to me. When 127 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 4: I was going to the store, Jamie asked me because 128 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 4: she'd go and get a sola pop and I say, 129 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 4: to ask your mother, and her mother sits sure. 130 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 2: So King goes and gets some beer and comes back 131 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: to the house. Ruth Ann comes out and gets a 132 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: beer out of the fridge, and King's there and Jamie's there, 133 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 2: no issues, goes back into the bedroom with Barton, and 134 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: you know, the day goes off without a hitch. Over 135 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: the course of the next few days, while Doug Dobell 136 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: was still out of town in Las Vegas, James sees 137 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 2: ruth Ann trying to sell Dobell's mophead and intervenes and 138 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: stops her and tells her she can't be selling Dobell's property. 139 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: Ruth Anne and James got into a verbal altercation when 140 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 2: he prevented her from selling the moped. 141 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 4: I said, excuse me, sir, this is not ruth Danner's mouthped. 142 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 4: This is the owner's moped. And if you buy this, 143 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 4: you're buying something that is stolen. And that's when Ruth 144 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 4: Dan turned to me, you bastard, if you tell Doug 145 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 4: about this, she said, if we get if we getting 146 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 4: picked it out of here because of you, I will 147 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 4: pay you back one hundred times over. 148 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: She had, also, by the way, pawned Dobell's television that 149 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: week when he was out of town. So on August eleventh, 150 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 2: Dobell returns from Las Vegas to his house and he 151 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 2: notices that there's property damaged. His TV is missing, and 152 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: James tells Dobell that ruth Anne had pawned the TV 153 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: and tried to sell the moped, and this was later 154 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: confirmed by Eric Barton, who had seen ruth Anne do 155 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 2: this stuff too. So Dobell and ruth Anne get into 156 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: an argument about her conduct while she's staying at the house, 157 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: and the next day, ruth Ann comes to Dobell with 158 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: Jamie and tells Dobell that James King has molested and 159 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 2: tried to rape Jamie. Dobell, who was horrified and actually 160 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 2: scared that he was going to be himself accused of 161 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 2: this assault, immediately calls the police and Dobell drives Jamie 162 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: and ruth Anne to the police station for Jamie to 163 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 2: be interviewed and on the way to the police station. 164 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 2: Ruth Ann is mad at Dobell because, as Bell testified, 165 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: he didn't give ruth Ann and Jamie time for them 166 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 2: to get their stories straight. 167 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is just the beginning, I mean, yeah, And 168 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: so she is now grasping at straws because she's angry 169 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: that her scheme was sort of you know, interrupted. 170 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, but I guess maybe should give just a 171 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: brief background. You know, Jamie's thirteen years old, and this 172 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 2: is her mother who's working as a prostitute and has 173 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 2: been a drug addict. And Jamie would later testify that 174 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 2: she was raped when she was four, and she was 175 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: raked when she was eight, and as you'll see, will 176 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 2: become relevant later a second time. She also said that 177 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: there was a convenience store involved, and we have fairly 178 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: good evidence that she was also being sexually assaulted at 179 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 2: this time that we're talking about August of nineteen ninety seven, 180 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 2: just not by James King. So I have a great 181 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 2: deal of sympathy for Jamie and her situation. He doesn't 182 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 2: change the facts that we're going to develop going for 183 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 2: but that's just the circumstances that we're dealing with here. 184 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: So now this awful scenario is starting to grow legs, 185 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: so to speak. Right, Dobell has driven them down to 186 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: the police station. What happened at that interview? 187 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: Jamie was taken into a room separated from her mother 188 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 2: and interviewed by detectives. She said that on that day 189 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 2: of August first, when James King came over to the house, 190 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: that he was going to go to the convenience store 191 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: to buy beer, and that because there was no one 192 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: else around, he knocked on the bedroom door, interrupted Barton 193 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 2: and ruth Ann and asked ruth Anne whether he should 194 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: take Jamie to the store with him or just leave 195 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 2: her there, And ruth Anne said, yeah, why don't you 196 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 2: take her? So, she says, she and James drove to 197 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: the liquor store, convenience store whatever it is. He got beer, 198 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 2: he bought Jamie a soda, and they're driving back and 199 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 2: she said that on the way back he pretended to 200 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 2: get lost and he began touching her thigh into her 201 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 2: private areas. And then they get back to the house. 202 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 2: Ruth Ann comes out of the bedroom, she gets a 203 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: beer from the fridge, goes back into the bedroom. She 204 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: sees Jamie. There's nothing going on no problem at that point. 205 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: According to Jamie, James takes her into the garage in 206 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: the house and on top of a piece of carpet 207 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 2: that's in the garage Dobell, by the ways, in the 208 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: carpet business, so there's a fairly large square of carpet 209 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 2: that she says that he then forced her to orally 210 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 2: copulate him, and that he raped her, and that he 211 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: ejaculated and the seamen went on the carpet. She was 212 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 2: actually very clear about that. The detectives asked her follow 213 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 2: up questions to make sure because they would be able 214 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 2: to then verify the story. So they ask her follow 215 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: up questions and she says, yes, it was a brown 216 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 2: or tan carpet. She told them where it was in 217 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: the garage. I think initially at least one of them 218 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: was slightly skeptical because for about a few things, Jamie 219 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 2: had said that the attack had lasted for seventy five minutes, 220 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: which seemed like an exceedingly long time, and there were, 221 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: you know, a few other details. So then they went 222 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 2: over and they interviewed ruth Ann, and ruth Ann said 223 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 2: that King had never come in and asked if he 224 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 2: could take Jamie to the store that had never happened. 225 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: That when she came out of the bedroom, you know, 226 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 2: she saw Jamie sitting there reading a book. No problem, 227 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 2: nothing seemed out of order. Then she said that when 228 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 2: Jamie told her about the incident, she said that King 229 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 2: had tried to rape her, but not the story that 230 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: she told the police. The detectives then went back in 231 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: with Jamie and said, your mom said that, you know, 232 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 2: she didn't see this and she didn't hear that, and 233 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: that you told her that it was only James had 234 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: tried something. And Jamie said, well, I don't know. I 235 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 2: don't know why my mom would say that. So there's 236 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: already discrepancy there. And so then the detectives asked Jamie, well, 237 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 2: did you tell anybody about what happened to you at 238 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 2: the time that it happened or days afterwards? Jamie says, 239 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: the only person that I told the next day was 240 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 2: my friend Erica. Erica then says, no, that didn't happen. 241 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 2: Erica says that she does remember Jamie telling her that 242 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 2: King had assaulted her, but that happened after Dobell had 243 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: gotten home, so, in other words, it had happened sometime 244 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 2: after August eleventh, more than ten days after the attack, 245 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 2: So there were some flags in the story just from 246 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: the beginning here. 247 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: There are a lot of flags, and the story really 248 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: is just getting started, because when you hear what happens 249 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: next and the way these lies start to unravel, it 250 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: would be comical if it wasn't tragic. 251 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 2: So when the interview concludes, Officer Hickman, he goes immediately 252 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 2: to Dobell's house and Dobell takes him into the garage 253 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 2: and there is a tan or brown carpet exactly in 254 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 2: the place that Jamie described it. Dobell tells the officer 255 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: it's been it for at least a month, and it's 256 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 2: the only one that's been in this garage for several months. 257 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 2: So the officer takes that carpet and they have it 258 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 2: laboratory tested for semen and it tests negative, And just 259 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 2: so they're sure, they take two other pieces of carpet, 260 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 2: not even remotely where Jamie said they were, or fitting description, 261 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: but they just wanted to be thorough, so they grab 262 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 2: two other pieces and they test those. They test negative. 263 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: The detectives then went back asked again for Jamie to 264 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 2: tell the story, and again Jamie tells a story, talks 265 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 2: about king, It talks about how we ejaculate on the 266 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: tan or brown carpet. So then the officer says, you know, 267 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: we had that carpet tested and it didn't show that 268 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: there was any semen on it. It didn't come back, 269 00:14:52,560 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 2: didn't test positive. There was none. And Jamie says, that's 270 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 2: because my dog ate that part of the carpet. 271 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: That's because my dog ate that part of the carpet. 272 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 2: Right, And you know, these are the things that a 273 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 2: thirteen year old girl might say, which he's caught in 274 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: a lie. So the officer says, your dog ate it, 275 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: and she says, well, also, I think my mom may 276 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: have cut it up and maybe then also washed it. 277 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 2: And the officer says, well, the carpet doesn't look like 278 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 2: it's damaged in any way. And Jamie didn't have anything 279 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 2: to say to that. So that is the state of 280 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: the evidence that was turned over to the District Attorney's office. 281 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: This is where it should have ended, right, Yes, this 282 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: was a moment right where the DA had that opportunity 283 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: to say, you know what, none of this makes any 284 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: fucking sense. Yeah, so you know, unless you guys can 285 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: bring me something you know, some physical evidence. I witnessed 286 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: testimony some something other than angled web of lies from 287 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: a poor child. I'm not going to prosecute this case, 288 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: but that's not what happened. 289 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, they try to build some corroboration and on 290 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: about August I think it was nineteenth or so, almost 291 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: three weeks or so after this alleged attack by King, 292 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: they have the prosecution's medical expert, doctor Valerie Barnes, examined 293 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: Jamie and she says, oh, I saw a red spot 294 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: on Jamie's mouth, and I saw redness in her vagina 295 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 2: and a cleft on the hymen and you know, up 296 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: streaking here, and these are consistent with the sexual assault 297 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 2: as she described it. That's just simply false. It's false. 298 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: And we know it's false because when James King's conviction 299 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 2: was overturned for the first time, it was overturned because 300 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: his lawyer had failed to call a medical expert to 301 00:16:54,640 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 2: rebut that testimony from Valerie Barnes. And if they called 302 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 2: a medical expert to rebut that testimony, this is a 303 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: federal judge talking, it would have demonstrated that it wasn't true. 304 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 2: And we know that because doctors Crawford and Coleman, and 305 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 2: they are eminently qualified in child sexual assault cases and 306 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: typically testify for the prosecution. Reviewed doctor Barnes's examination of 307 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 2: Jamie and did their own examination of the same pictures 308 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: and everything in Barnes looked at, and they concluded that Barnes' 309 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 2: findings were medically absurd to the point of showing bias, 310 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 2: that none of the injuries or red spots that they 311 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 2: saw were indicative of an assault that happened on August first, 312 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: or anytime around then. Acute sexual assault injuries like that 313 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 2: heal within seventy two hours, maybe a week at most. 314 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: They said that what Barnes saw were simply normal markings 315 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 2: and that there was no cleft on a hymen. They 316 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 2: could see it clearly. But those absurd findings had the 317 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: benefit for the prosecution of corroborating Jamie's story because they said, 318 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: these are consistent with the assault. So there's your corroboration. 319 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, nice expert. And before we move on to the 320 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: inevitable in this trial, authorities had another opportunity to do 321 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: the right thing here, but it too went completely ignored. 322 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: Shortly after the allegations came up and the investigation started going, 323 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 2: Dobell found Jamie's diary in her room and he turned 324 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 2: it over to the police. And in that diary, Jamie 325 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 2: wrote about a man named Eli who she was in 326 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 2: love with and who did stuff to her, and she 327 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 2: would write things like do you really love me? Or 328 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 2: do you just want to do those things to me? 329 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 2: And this would seem like is Eli Roman, who was 330 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: living in the house and who was in his mid 331 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,719 Speaker 2: to late twenties at the time, And remarkably, she wrote 332 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 2: about some sort of sexual interaction with Eli on the 333 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 2: day or within a day of when she accused King. 334 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 2: So in her diary there's something on August twelfth or 335 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 2: thirteenth about you know, Eli and you know, doing stuff 336 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 2: to her. So at trial she's asked about this and 337 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 2: she denies it all and she says, no, no, I 338 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 2: just write stuff in there. It didn't have anything to 339 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 2: do with with Eli. So, you know, it's even it's 340 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 2: even a bit richer here where you actually have someone 341 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 2: who is assaulting her who she professes to love in 342 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 2: her diary. 343 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: Right, which just adds to the total absurdity of doctor 344 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: Barnes examining Jamie nearly three weeks after this alleged August 345 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: first incident, when acute injuries like that would heal within 346 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: just over seventy two hours, and then testified about those 347 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 1: findings at trial, attributing them to the alleged August first incident, 348 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: when Jamie's diary clearly indicates that statutory rape happened within 349 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: days of this examination. So James, did you hire a 350 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: lawyer and what exactly did your lawyer do? Well? 351 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 4: At first I had a public defender. That lawyer never 352 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 4: got me an expert dispute all that right. 353 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: So with no expert to refute and Jamie's testimony, this 354 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: was basically a FATA complay. But there was still some 355 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: hope in that there were so many holes in Jamie's story, 356 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: especially about the carpet where she alleged that James deposited seamen, 357 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: which came up negative every time despite many efforts. Then 358 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: her ridiculous answer about the dog, you know, having eaten 359 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: the carpet. It's like my dog ate my homework, literally, 360 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: and then it gets even worse. The carpet in her 361 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: story changed colors. 362 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 2: She switched from her statement about the carpet being tan 363 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 2: or brown, which she'd said, I think three or four 364 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 2: times at this point leading up the trial to the 365 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 2: fact that the carpet was blue. In other words, no, Okay, 366 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 2: my story before about the dog chewing it, Maybe that 367 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 2: doesn't seem reasonable. So let's just say it's a blue carpet, 368 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 2: and it's a different carpet. Well, Dobell testified that there 369 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 2: was no blue carpet in the garage. Again, Dobell's in 370 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 2: the carpet business, which is why we're talking about carpet 371 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 2: in the garage and why he knows about it. But 372 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 2: he said that months earlier that there was a piece 373 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: of blue carpet in the garage, but that it had 374 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 2: been out of there for months prior to when this 375 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 2: assault allegedly occurred, and that the only piece of carpet 376 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,719 Speaker 2: that even remotely matched the description that she's talking about, 377 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 2: and that was that piece that was taken by the police, 378 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 2: that the criminalists testified that was laboratory tested and negative 379 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: for semen, and that it would have tested positive if 380 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 2: there had been any fluids on there. But a jury 381 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: of twelve people, with all the flaws and biases that 382 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 2: twelve people bring, seeing the testimony of a thirteen year 383 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 2: old girl accusing this man who has a prior felony, 384 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: non sexual felony on his record, is very compelling testimony. 385 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 2: It's a testimony of a child talking about the abuse 386 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 2: they've suffered. And James King is convicted and he is 387 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 2: sentenced to thirty five years to life in prison. 388 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 4: It was devastating because I knew I was innocent, that 389 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 4: I knew that this was all wrong. Man, I couldn't 390 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 4: believe it. You feel like somebody hit me with the 391 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 4: two by four right in the face. Man twenty two 392 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 4: years old. I never even had an allegation that I 393 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 4: even touched a girl in a wrong way, and he 394 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 4: won't happen to do me. 395 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by Paul Weiss, Rifkin, Porton and Garrison, 396 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: a leading international law firm. Paul Weiss has long had 397 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: an unwavering commitment to providing impactful, robono legal assistance to 398 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: the most vulnerable members of our society and in support 399 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: of the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal 400 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: justice area. 401 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 4: Going to prison for a sex crime is very rough, 402 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 4: as dagerous guys in prison don't like that. I have 403 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 4: been jumped in prison, I have been eat down. So 404 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 4: you what happened the guy that I was selling up with. 405 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 4: He went through my vapor work and found out what 406 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 4: I was in there for, and he went out in 407 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 4: the yard and told all the inmates what I was 408 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 4: in there for. And that's when they jumped me, beat 409 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 4: me up. He got happened to got to convey, and 410 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 4: I still got to deal with it. You got to 411 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 4: watch yourself in here twenty four years. I've been in 412 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 4: here for nothing. My mother, she's ninety years old, and 413 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 4: I just don't want her to die. Why I'm in prison. 414 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 4: It's going to tear me up, man, you know, because 415 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 4: I'm really close to my mom and I just wanted 416 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 4: to be out there with her, and here I'm in 417 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 4: here for nothing, you know, and it's really eat me. 418 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: Up through bad I know. James. We've spoken to your 419 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: mom several times, received many letters from her, and we 420 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: promised her that we do all we possibly can to 421 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: make a difference for you, which is one of the 422 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 1: reasons why we're here right now talking about it and 423 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: shining a light on this horrible injustice. So Ian tell 424 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: us what happened in post conviction. His early appeals were 425 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: repeatedly denied through nineteen ninety eight. Ninety nine, all the 426 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: way till two thousand and nine when finally he got 427 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: to the federal habeas petition. 428 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 2: Right, yes, and it is very hard to get even 429 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 2: a federal court to hear you on the merits of 430 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: your claim. It's even harder to win on the merits 431 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 2: of your claim. But his federal habeas petition made it 432 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 2: through all of the procedural barriers, and the federal district 433 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 2: judge ended up granting his habeas petition on the claim 434 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 2: of ineffective assistance of counsel, basically saying his trial lawyer 435 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 2: was ineffective for failing to call a medical expert who 436 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 2: could have rebutted the testimony of doctor Valerie Barnes that 437 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 2: Jamie had injuries consistent with an assault by King. And 438 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 2: she granted that because the two doctors, Crawford and Coleman, 439 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 2: had provided not only declarations but witness testimony about what 440 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 2: they saw and about how wrong doctor Barnes was. So 441 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 2: this judge grants the ineffective assistance a council, And in 442 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 2: making that finding, this judge looked at Jamie's testimony and 443 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 2: noted the serious gaps and contradictions in her testimony. The 444 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 2: statement about the carpet and how it tested negative, and 445 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 2: then she said the dog ate it. And then she 446 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 2: changed and said the carpet was blue. And all these 447 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: things were noted by the federal judge overturning his conviction. 448 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: I mean, and this is so long ago. This was 449 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: making me so sick. This is twelve long years ago, 450 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: and it should have ended there. But the DA decided 451 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: to retry mister King, charging him with three counts of 452 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: aggravated sexual assault on a child and lude conduct with 453 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: a child, all of which he of course still pled 454 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: not guilty. And prior to the retrial, this is important, 455 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: the prosecution offered him a deal, a plea deal. 456 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 2: He was presented with an option, will throw out the rape, 457 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 2: we'll throw out the oral cop. If you just plead 458 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: to one count of lude conduct, you'll walk out a 459 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 2: freeman time served, you are free to go. You can 460 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: be back with your mother. And he turned it down. 461 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 2: No guilty person offered the chance to walk out of 462 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 2: prison or face retrial would say, fuck you, I'm innocent. 463 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 2: Retry me. And he did. 464 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: That, and Jamie informed the prosecution that she didn't object 465 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: to the plea deal. But mister King, that's amazing. I mean, 466 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: that's so, but mister King rejected it, maintaining his complete innocence, and. 467 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 2: So they retried him. You know, the wrinkle here that 468 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 2: really stands out to me is that leading up to 469 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 2: the trial, some DA investigators did a few interviews with Jamie, 470 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 2: and in these interviews, Jamie accused King of also sexually 471 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 2: assaulting her in the living room in the house, and 472 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 2: the prosecutors started sort of following up on it, and 473 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 2: then she admits, no, that's a lie. It was actually 474 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 2: Eli Roman that made me do that. So she's lying 475 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: here again in twenty ten, so that was leading up 476 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 2: to the trial. So she goes into the courtroom again 477 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 2: and she tells the story again, and doctor Barnes says, 478 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 2: you know, does her thing again. 479 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: Her testimony remained consistent from the first trial, even though 480 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: she'd been called out by these renowned esteemed doctors. Right, 481 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: doctor James Crawford Jakubiak, who has received a Distinguished Service 482 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: Award from the Sexual Assault Investigator Association with California in 483 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: two thousand and three. Since nineteen ninety four, had been 484 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: listed on the Best Doctors in America. Ninety percent of 485 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: the cases he testified and he pressified for the prosecution. 486 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: And then there's doctor Lee Coleman, a psychiatrist with a 487 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: specialty in sexual abuse cases, who also testified and agreed 488 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 1: with doctor Crawford. It really is a mystery how he 489 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: was able to be convicted wrongly a second time. 490 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 2: Just simply on the testimony of Jamie and doctor Barnes. 491 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 2: Even though his conviction was overturned by a federal court, 492 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 2: and even though the federal judge made all those findings 493 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 2: about the holes and the evidence and the unbelievability of 494 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: Jamie's story, James King got retried, and he got sentenced 495 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 2: again to thirty five years to life, and once again 496 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 2: the appellate process gears start turning. He has his direct 497 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 2: appeal in the California Court of Appeal habeas petitions and 498 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 2: those are denied once again. Actually, he filed a pro 499 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 2: per which means without a lawyer, basically by him self. 500 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 2: He chicken scratched out of federal habeas petition because he 501 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 2: didn't have counsel at the time. And this time they 502 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 2: denied it because the doctors testified at trial, and so 503 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 2: even though they had serious doubts about Jamie's credibility, you know, 504 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 2: the federal court said, we're not here to relitigate you know, 505 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 2: who we believe and who we don't believe. That's not 506 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 2: our role. That's a jury's role. So our hands are 507 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 2: tied and we're going to deny your Federal district habeas petition. 508 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 2: And then in twenty seventeen, my firm was contacted by 509 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 2: James and his mother, Lilian. You know, the first thing 510 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 2: that we do is start reading, you know, we get 511 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 2: the trial transcripts, and we look at the direct appeal 512 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 2: briefs and the habeas petitions and the court's rulings. This 513 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 2: is one of those things where you feel your stomach turning. 514 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 2: It's hard to believe that this case has happened the 515 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 2: way it's happened, and that j MS is once again 516 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 2: in prison serving thirty five years to life based on 517 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 2: the state of the evidence in this case. If you 518 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 2: talk to any of the lawyers that have represented James 519 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 2: throughout this saga, each one of them will tell you 520 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 2: the same thing, that this is a man who is innocent, 521 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 2: and they believe it as much as they've ever believed 522 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 2: any case they've ever had. When you're in this field, 523 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 2: you see a lot of cases of a lot of 524 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 2: people saying they didn't do it, and maybe some of them. 525 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: You agree with. 526 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 2: Maybe some of them say, well, I'm not sure if 527 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 2: they didn't do it, but their constitutional rights were violated 528 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 2: at trial, and there are very few that you would 529 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 2: bet your eyeballs that they're factually innocent. And this is 530 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: a case that every lawyer who's touched it, aside from 531 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 2: a prosecutor, would tell you that, and I'd tell you that. 532 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 2: After we got involved in the case. What we saw 533 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,479 Speaker 2: was that the issue of false evidence had never been raised. 534 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 2: And our view of the evidence and of the law 535 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: is that the testimony that Jamie gave that the rug 536 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 2: was now blue is false, It's demonstratively false, and the 537 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 2: testimony of Valerie Barnes is false. To eminently qualified doctors 538 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 2: have said it's false, and they've said it's absurd. They've 539 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 2: said that the things that doctor Barnes testified to but 540 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 2: a cleft on the highmen and things of that nature 541 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 2: simply were not there, did not exist. Her findings are absurd. 542 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: So we file the habeas petition alleging false evidence introduced 543 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 2: at trial and ineffective assistance of his appel council for 544 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 2: failure to raise that issue. The Superior Court actually requested 545 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 2: some informal briefing on the issue, and what the Additional 546 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 2: Attorney's office came back with was, well, we're just saying 547 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: that there's a disagreement amongst experts. Doctor Barnes's testimony isn't false. 548 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 2: She testified to what she saw, and then Crawford and 549 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 2: Coleman testified to their findings, and the jury made their determinations, 550 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 2: so you can't say that that's false. And regarding the 551 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 2: blue carpet, they said, well, Jamie was just mistaken about 552 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 2: whether the carpet was blue or tan, and that explains everything. 553 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 2: And we submitted a reply brief saying basically, all that's 554 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 2: clearly bullshit. You know, look at this, look at the transcripts. 555 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 2: You know he's innocent. This evidence was false, and the 556 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 2: Superior Court, not unsurprisingly unfortunately denied the Haavy's edition. We 557 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 2: filed in the California Court of Appeal and it was 558 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 2: and so then we filed havieyas setition in the California 559 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 2: Supreme Court. This is our last forum here, and if 560 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 2: this is denied, he's already filed a federal habeas petition 561 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 2: proper by himself, so we can't just go back to 562 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 2: federal court and knock on their door again. And I 563 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 2: am deeply worried that if the California Supreme Court denies 564 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 2: this habeas petition, that our only avenue at that point 565 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 2: is to petition the governor's office for clemency or commutation, 566 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 2: which is a difficult case to make when you have 567 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 2: allegations like these. 568 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always a long shot, but it's also always 569 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: worth to try. And the good news is that you 570 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: have a great governor in California and his team, who 571 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: I've gotten to know are really terrific people. 572 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 2: We are going to sort of change dot org petition 573 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 2: that we would love for people who have heard of 574 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 2: about this case and who agree that James King should 575 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 2: not spend any more time in prison than that he's 576 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 2: an innocent man, would go to the link and read 577 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 2: more about the case and voice your. 578 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 4: Support once you see the evidence to see that I 579 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 4: am completely innocent of this crime, and I just beg 580 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 4: you to please people, Can you please sign my petition and. 581 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: We'll of course link to that in the bio, So 582 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: please do go to the bio sign the petition. There 583 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: will be other information as well. And now you know, 584 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: we go to the part of the show that we 585 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: call closing arguments. First of all, I thank you for 586 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: being with us, and of course, James, you know what 587 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: can I say except for the entire human race owes 588 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,479 Speaker 1: you an apology and so much more. And I hope 589 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: that we're able to see you free in the not 590 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: too distant future. So and now closing arguments, I leave 591 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: your microphones on, turn mine off, kick back in my 592 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: chair with my headphones on, and just listen for anything 593 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: you want to say. Let's start with you Ian and 594 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: save mister King. To close out the show. 595 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 2: James King is innocent. I think any fair minded person 596 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 2: looking at the facts of this case and the history 597 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,280 Speaker 2: of this case would agree with there is an innocent 598 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 2: man who has served twenty four years and he didn't 599 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 2: do it. He's innocent. I don't fault Jamie. The circumstances 600 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 2: of her life leading up to this were horrible. She was, 601 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 2: in my view, being assaulted at that time, but by 602 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 2: somebody else, by somebody that she professed to love. When 603 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 2: it came to accusing somebody, she was able to accuse 604 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 2: James King of conduct that someone else had done to her. 605 00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 2: These cases require evidence. You can not simply take the 606 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 2: word of one person. They require corroboration. And when there's 607 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 2: no physical evidence, when there's no corroboration, that should be 608 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,919 Speaker 2: a red flag. And then when the evidence comes back 609 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 2: and it contradicts the allegations, that should be an even 610 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 2: bigger red flag. And then when those contradictions are absurd, 611 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 2: that the dog ate the evidence that the carpet magically 612 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 2: switched colors, that James King did this stuff to me. 613 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 2: Oh wait a minute, sorry, it was actually Eli Roman 614 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 2: who did that stuff to me. That should be a 615 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 2: stop sign. It shouldn't happen at that point. No one 616 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 2: should have their life put in jeopardy. And let's not sugarcoated. 617 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 2: I mean this is it's a death sentence. James King 618 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 2: is going to die in prison unless his conviction is overturned, 619 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 2: his sentence is commuted, He's not going to get out. 620 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 2: He's sixty six years old now and he's not in 621 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 2: great health. His mother's name is Lilian, she's in her 622 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 2: mid eighties and she is in rapidly declining health. His 623 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 2: one hope is to get out before she dies, and 624 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 2: her one hope is to see her son again outside 625 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 2: of prison's. This is the kind of case that you know, 626 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 2: makes you question what you're doing as a lawyer, if 627 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 2: what you're doing has any value. If we lose, if 628 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 2: his conviction isn't overturned. 629 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 1: Have I failed? 630 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 2: If we lose, James King dies in prison, his mother 631 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 2: dies without ever seeing her son outside of prison again, 632 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 2: And you know I will have failed. 633 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: James Now over you God, I'm I'm just just begging 634 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: that somebody will please help me this girl. 635 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 4: Man, they hated me because I am the one who 636 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 4: got to evicted because see, they had nowhere to go. 637 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 4: They were living on the streets. They hadn't made there 638 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 4: and I came along and I took it away from her. 639 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 4: It was nothing but revenge and revenge only, man, That's 640 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 4: why they did this. I just pray that somebody would 641 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 4: please took a look at my patience, see the evidence 642 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 4: that I am totally innocent of this crime. My mom, 643 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 4: she thank you so much what you're doing for me. 644 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 4: She is so happy to hear this, what you guys 645 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 4: are doing now for me. She's so happy. And I 646 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 4: want you to know this. Then, I want you to 647 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 4: know one thing this never happened. This never happened. 648 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: Then, thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 649 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence projects and go to the 650 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,919 Speaker 1: link in our bio to see how you can help. 651 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,439 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff 652 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 1: Cliburn and Kevin Warnis. The music on the show, as always, 653 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be 654 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and 655 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason 656 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in 657 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one