WEBVTT - Fred Mollin 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.480 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:19.400 My guest today is Fred Malin, record producer, composer, Songwriter's 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:21.320 got a new book, Unplugged. 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:23.880 Fred. Why this book and why now? 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:30.080 Well, you know, Bob, I felt that the hard drive 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:32.000 up here gets a little full, so I wanted to 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.519 make sure I remembered stuff. And that was probably the 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.280 first reason why I started putting stories together on paper. 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:41.240 And I also wanted to leave something, you know, for 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.080 my kids and grandkids, et cetera. That would be sort 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:47.680 of a story of, you know, how to survive through 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:48.800 a life of music. 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:54.400 Okay, and how long did it take you to do it? 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.720 Started, you know, sort of dictating stories into my iPhone 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:01.720 about six years ago and then got serious about a 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:02.520 year and a half ago. 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.240 Okay. One of the most striking things in the book 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.480 is you dropped out of high school at sixteen. How 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:11.959 did you convince your parents to let you do that? 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.920 Well? I had a very understanding mom and a good dad, 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.600 but who didn't quite understand as well. And you know, Bob, 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:23.920 I think we're the same age. But they saw it 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:28.320 coming and so my mom realized that I hated school, 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.240 especially by the time I was sixteen years old, and 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:34.199 she knew that I wanted to make my life in music, 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:36.120 and she believed in me, and she was a very 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.280 very much the wind beneath my wings. And we walked 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.200 to the high school together in Merrick Long Island and 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:47.000 Calhoun High School and on my birthday and we said goodbye. 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:49.880 What did the administration say? 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:51.640 Oh, I don't think they gave a shit. 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.760 Yeah, but you're in a middle class suburb. Did anybody 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:58.360 else drop out at sixteen? 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.520 No? You know, listen in nineteen sixty nine, growing up 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:06.160 in Merrick Long Island, which is a very sort of 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:11.120 middle class suburb of New York. You know, I do 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.560 have a vivid memory, Bob of me sort of sitting 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.640 outside of our house but not particularly close by, but 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.600 close enough to hear a conversation that my mom was 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:23.440 having with a neighbor. And this is right after I 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.239 quit school, and the neighbor was saying to my mom, 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.919 you know, Peg, I'm so sorry about Fred. And I 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:33.320 was thinking to myself, you know, they must think I'm 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.800 going to the circus or that I'm dead, But I 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:38.919 felt more alive than ever. 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.280 Okay, you drop out a high school with the vision 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.959 of making any music. Now you're not busy all day, 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.160 what are you doing? Well? 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.160 I had a part time job at a bookstore because 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:55.200 I'm a bookworm, and there was a lovely lady in 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:59.960 America who had a paperback bookstore, and I would make 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.160 some money there. But also, you know, i'd be knocking 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.000 on doors in New York trying to get a record 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:09.280 deal as a singer songwriter, and really wasn't quite in 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:11.720 my opinion, I don't think I was as good as 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:16.239 I needed to be in that particular way. And then 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:20.480 shortly after I went and spent a really interesting year 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:24.040 in upstate New York with my older brother Larry and 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:25.679 a bunch of poets in a commune. 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.480 Wait, wait, wait, let's go back those in the book 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.760 you tell some tales you're knocking on doors. You actually 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.240 have an audition with John Hamm and tell us about that. 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.240 I God bless you for reading even a few books. 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:44.320 That's just wonderful. You know. I was fifteen and I 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.960 had a fourteen year old dear friend, Sam Kashner, who's 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:53.840 become a very esteemed novelist and a biographer. And Sam 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.560 wrote a scrawled letter literally I saw the letter later 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:04.400 to John Hammond, and his secretary read the scrawl somehow 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.480 made it out, and John Hammond agreed to let me 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.600 audition for him with my buddy who I was fifteen, 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:14.360 he was fourteen, and we took the train to New 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.000 York and went to Black Rock and I had a 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.120 loaned out Martin I was using and I played a 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.200 few songs for John Hammon, and it was just I was, 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.480 you know, ten feet off the ground, because if anyone 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.120 doesn't know, John Hammond was the esteemed day and our 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:33.200 man who discovered Bob Dylan, Billie Holliday, and Bruce Springsteen. 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.920 So yeah, it was pretty cool and he was very 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.200 kind to me. Bob. He said, I like what you're doing. 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:43.479 He said, I want you to come back in about 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.359 two years. I want you to have some life in 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:45.839 front of you. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.880 Okay, when you were performing for John Hammond, did you 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.000 think you were worthy of a record deal? 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.120 I hoped I was. I don't know if I don't 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:58.719 know if I believe that, but I hoped I was. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.919 Okay, you know, you talk about your mother being the 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.680 wind beneath your wings in that era, we are the 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:11.560 exact same age, or close to it. And no one 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.880 wanted their kid to be an artist because an artist starve. 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.000 Were you convinced you were gonna make it? 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.040 I had a drive, and at that point, my drive 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.160 was very focused on, you know, the people, and when 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:26.400 I was sixteen, the people I really admired, like Neil 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.600 Young and James Taylor and Joni Mitchell and all these 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.080 kinds of people that were really breaking the rules and 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:36.480 becoming these autobiographical singer songwriters. And I felt like I 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.599 was obviously young, but I thought that might be part 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.920 of the interest that people might have in me. And I, yeah, 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.920 I was, you know, I just hoped. I don't think 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.599 it was you know, I don't think I was arrogant. 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.000 I think I was just really hopeful. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.479 Okay, you drop out of school, you put all your 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.640 eggs in one basket. It is almost impossible to make it. 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.960 What was going through your head? You were definitely gonna 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:01.720 make it because you were good enough, or you were 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.000 gonna work long enough and hard enough to make it. 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:04.960 What was happening? 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.200 I think all the above. I think I was. I 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.719 think I had talent, and I think I had I 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.039 was co writing songs with my older brother, and I 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:16.599 thought they were cool. But yeah, I mean, I just 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.640 I had a lot of belief in myself and I 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.200 had quit school because of that belief. 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:28.119 Okay, you were knocking on doors New York City before 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.839 you went up state. What kind of reaction did you get. 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:34.120 Oh, I didn't get much reaction at all, you know. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:36.880 I mean it was, first of all, I didn't know anybody. 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.560 You know, I don't come from a show of business family, 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:44.160 and I didn't have anybody at age sixteen that I 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.960 could network with. So, you know, I knocked on some 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:51.040 doors and most of them were closed. And I did 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.240 get one song published by Warner Brothers Music when I 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.240 was sixteen that my brother and I had written, and 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:00.800 I remember the person who signed that song was a 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.280 guy who was in the Belmonts with Dion. His name 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.559 was Fred Mulano, so he was on the Buddy Holly 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:11.840 death tour. I found that pretty fascinating. But yeah, outside 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.320 of that song being published that year where I was 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.440 sort of working part time at a bookstore and then 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.440 the rest of the time trying to knock on doors 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:20.120 didn't really work. 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.000 So how did you decide to go move up north 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:26.640 with your brother who was considerably older. 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:34.640 Yeah, Larry is seven years older, and at that point, 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.280 at sixteen, we had become each other's best friends, and 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.360 he had become very creative. He wasn't supposed to be. 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.280 He was in Georgetown University, actually in the same dorm 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.280 room as Clinton, and two years later he found acting. 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.880 And then Quinton went to Ithaca College, which destroyed my father. 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.000 But Larry became my best pal because he wanted to 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.440 be a poet and he wanted to write, and so 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:02.240 he wrote songs together. And when he moved from a 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.280 poetry commune where he was living after he finished school 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:10.560 in Ithaca, New York, in Trumansburg, actually a little bit, 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.600 I guess north of Ithaca, he then decided to go 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:16.040 to Canada, to Toronto. 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.800 Wait wait, wait, wait a little bit slower. Sure you 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.880 got to visit him, Yes, you try to go back 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:23.360 to school for a minute. 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:29.240 Oh in Ithaca. Yeah, I went to visit Larry and 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:33.600 we did this hang for about six months where I 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:37.000 stayed at this commune, this poetry commune. It was lovely 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:39.480 and at the same time, you know what, I was 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:44.280 turning seventeen and there was some not pressure but maybe 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.160 even internal pressure. But I should try to go back 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.920 to high school to get my high school diploma. And 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.960 so I stayed with a friend of Larry's in Ithaca 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:57.480 and tried Ithaca High School for that, you know, for 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:02.600 that shot. And I only lasted two days. It was 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.200 so poisonous. I just said gotta go and I went back. 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.320 And then shortly after Larry went to Toronto, and I 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:09.839 followed him. 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:14.520 Okay, were you a bad student or not interested? 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:22.160 Was I a bad student? I really hated school. So 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:26.199 I hated math, and I hated you know, social studies 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:28.800 was okay, English. I could have taught the class because 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.760 I was a you know, a bookworm, but no I 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.440 a science class. I mean, these things still give me 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:36.000 the chills. 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.600 So you have kids, would you have let your kids 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:42.360 drop out? And what'd you tell them? 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.559 Well, you know, I have two great kids and two 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.079 grandkids now. But when I was raising my kids, if 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.839 they had shown me that kind of drive and musicality, 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:54.800 I would have said, go for it. 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.000 Well, you know, no one really likes homework. So when 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.880 they would be there with math and science, would you say, no, 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.320 you gotta do this, you got to get your degree. 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.120 I was so busy at that point when they were 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.839 going through their school at that point. They didn't come 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.400 to me with those things. They just got their work done. 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.839 Okay, you're living in Ithaca, and next door is Bob 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.079 Mogu tell us about that? 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.120 Well, isn't that a great great story? 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:24.079 Yeah? 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.680 I mean we were in this lovely old house where 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.840 this poetry commune was, and sometimes we didn't have enough 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.320 running water for showers. And Bob mog and his wife 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:40.320 Shirley lived down the road and Ithaca, the neighborhood of Ithaca, 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.320 as well as Trumansburg where we were. Trumansburg's a very 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:47.000 small upstate New York town, and we had all sort 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.920 of known each other through different sort of community outreach things. 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:53.440 And Bob had heard that I was a musician, and 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:57.680 someone said, oh, you should really invite Fred to your studio, 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:01.920 your workplace, and I did. I got to go to 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.720 his Trumansberg studio and try to play with one of 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:11.160 his you know, mile high tall synthesizers, and he was 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.760 kind to me, and surely especially they would let us 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.520 take showers at their house when we couldn't shower at home. 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:21.760 And then, yeah, that was just a I have a 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:23.400 great photo. I think I might have put it in 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.640 the book of the of the Mailbox that says Mogue. 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.960 You will also say that Mog goes to work for 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.800 kurtzwhile and you end up using that connection to get 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.880 an instrument at a deep discount. Yeah. 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.320 When I started to make my way without planning it, 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.840 I fell into film and TV composing in around nineteen 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:50.040 eighty five, and I needed to have this. You know, 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.520 there was there, there were fair Lights, there were Saint Clavier's, 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.560 and there were Kurzwele's and Bob Mogue was now the 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.840 chief scientist at Kurzweil. So I reached out to him 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.880 and he was really happy to hear from me. He 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.800 had known that I had become a record producer. Now 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.720 he heard I was become a TV film composer film 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.200 and TV composer, which I told him all about. And 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.160 I said, Bob, I need a great deal on occur 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.559 as well, and he said, oh, no, don't you worry, 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.800 You'll get my deal, and away we went. 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:22.520 Do you remember how much that was? 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.200 I think it was around twelve thousand, down from like 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.480 twenty four or something, so I. 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.800 Know it's ancient history, but what exactly was the difference 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.960 between the fair Lights Sinclavier and the kurts Wow. 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.079 Well, first of all, the price, the sink Clavier and 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.280 the fair Child were very expensive in the I think 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.640 I think a sinclavier could have cost one hundred grand. 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.280 I don't even remember anymore. It was very stupid high. 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:56.280 But you know, these were the first digital sequencing instruments 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:00.719 and sampling instruments, and everyone you know was using them 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.360 in film and TV composing, and Kurzwew was this very 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.120 unique one, but it was affordable. 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.839 So tell us a little bit more about the Kurtzwaw. 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.559 Well. Kurzwaul was developed by Ray Kurzweil, who was an 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.040 incredible scientist, and if you read all about him, his 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.319 his work on the reading machine for the blind alone 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.520 should get him a Pulletzer or whatever they give you 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:31.480 these days, a Nobel. But he also created this wonderful 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:37.000 instrument which has onboard fantastic samples of piano and synth 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.800 and all sorts of orchestral sounds, and you can keep 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:44.480 adding sounds and you can create your own sounds. So 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.200 the nice part about it for me was it was 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.520 sort of an inspiration machine. It had it was very 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.080 easy to use, so I could literally record something like 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.800 a piano pass and then hit track two right on 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.319 the same keyboard air and then overdub and then hit 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.000 track three, and I would have twelve tracks. And then 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:06.880 I started to mity things all, you know, I start 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:08.640 to get very involved in film and TV. But it 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.560 was a wonderful I still keep my Kurzwell two fifty 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.880 here in the studio because occasionally you need a certain 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:16.560 sound that is a curswew sound. 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.920 Okay, how'd you get out of the draft? 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:28.360 Oh? 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.360 I was real fortunate. I had moved to Toronto and 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.480 I became a member of draft Board one hundred, which 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.560 was a draft board that they would only grab people 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:43.440 from in case of absolutely you know, if everyone else 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.000 couldn't go, they would go to draft Board one hundred. 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.000 Then on top of it, Bob I got a really 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:49.440 high lottery number the next year. 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:54.240 Okay, Toronto, I've been many times. I'm going next week 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.280 as a matter of fact. But you're there in the 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:01.120 early seventies. Is it provincial? What's Toronto like? 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:05.680 In the early seventies, Toronto was really a wonderland. I 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.640 had made friends on my first visit to Toronto in 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:12.640 seventy two, made friends with Tony Kosnek, who was living 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.920 in a house close to my brother, and it was 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.360 again a very free and lovely time in Toronto was 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.600 really blooming and you know, just a lot of artistic 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.600 things were happening, and Tony was making a record and 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.320 he wanted me to be in the band, and I 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.120 was again as a seventeen year old fresh out of 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.720 Long Island, Toronto was just exciting to me and working 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.880 with Tony was thrilling. In the band was Paul Schaeffer, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.600 who was our piano player, who was fresh out of 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:46.640 Thunder Bay, Ontario. And the guitar player quit and I 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.520 had to become the bass player, and Paul actually had 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:53.160 to teach me how to do a better job on bass. 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:57.680 Let's go back at step. What instruments did you play? 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.600 How did you learn how to play growing up? 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:02.840 Well, I think I was always a drummer because I 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.400 would drum on the tin can garbage cans as a child. 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.640 And then when the Beatles hit, I grabbed guitar and 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:15.280 became very studious as far as just immersing myself and 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.320 trying to play guitar because I was absolutely you know, 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.640 just my whole life changed with the Beatles. So I 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.680 really was a guitar player who played some drums and 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:29.520 had to learn how to play bass for Tony. 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:32.920 Okay, So continue the narrative from there. 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.040 Well, you know, the one thing that was really fascinating 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.920 was when I got there, the Canadian government had passed 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:46.120 a Canadian content ruling that from this day on, everything 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.280 on the radio and television had to be thirty three 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.280 and a third percent Canadian. This had never happened before. So, 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:57.080 in other words, a Canadian radio station before seventy two 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.360 could play all the UK and American music they wanted, 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.520 and played two Canadian songs a day if they wanted. 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.439 And all of a sudden, now there was this incredible 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:10.680 gold rush on for Canadian artists to be signed and 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:12.480 Canadian music to be on the radio. 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.200 Okay, And how did that affect what you were doing? 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.480 I think it just opened up the doors all of 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:22.280 a sudden, you know, all the doors that were closed 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:26.240 to me in New York. Toronto was such an open 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.480 city anyway. And then on top of it, there was 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.520 a frenzy almost to sign anybody who could play guitar, 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.800 anybody who could write songs, because they had to fill 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.879 this thirty three and a third content all of a sudden, 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.760 and Tony was one of the recipients of that. You know, 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:43.679 there was also you know, the government would give you 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.480 grants to record records. I mean, it was really quite 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:50.560 a country. But at the same time it helped me 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.240 immensely a few years later when I started to produce records. 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.200 Just stopping here for a second, you know, we're living 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:03.440 in an era of political turmoil and there's friction between 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.560 Canada and the US. Having lived so much in Canada, 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.439 what is the difference between Canada and the people in 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.680 Canada and the people in US. 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.080 Well, I think, you know, first of all, I'm a 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:20.520 dual citizen, and I've been a Canadian citizen for many years, 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.399 but a landed immigrant for many years before that. But 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.359 I feel more Canadian than I do American. I find 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:32.640 it to be very much. I just feel very Canadian. 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:37.080 I feel very lucky to have been sort of allowed 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.119 in the country. I feel lucky to have had my 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:44.600 life there. The weather is terrible, but the people and 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.520 the history and the living history that we love there 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.439 shows it to be a much more compassionate and a 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:54.919 much more I don't know, tolerant place. 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.000 So tell me about joining a comedy troupe in Toronto. 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.480 Yeah, you know, I think, first of all, you know, 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.119 in those days especially, you just take every opportunity you 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:08.560 can get. And my brother and two colleagues who were 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.480 doing underground theater at that point in Toronto, decided to 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:17.160 try to create their own improvisational comedy group and they 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.080 called it homemade theater. But they needed someone to do 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.320 music and that was me. So I was the fourth 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:27.159 member of this improvisational comedy group and I would do 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.840 the music for each of their improvisational skits and it 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.399 was really quite fun. And then it actually turned into 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:39.200 a situation where the other improvisationally comedy group, Improvisational Comedy Group, 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:44.080 came around from Chicago Second City, and they opened up 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:47.440 in Toronto and they had a real facility and a bar. 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:53.399 So we sort of lost our uniqueness, but we loved 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.359 all the folks who had become part of the Second 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:57.520 City Toronto troupe. 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.840 But this was not really amateur. I had success. You 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:05.800 were working for the government, you were getting paid. Yeah. 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.280 No, I mean, you know again, Toronto was a very 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.240 wide open place at that point, very accepting of all 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:16.320 new ideas and all creativity, and we were, you know, 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:20.360 we were embraced, and yes, we worked for the government. Eventually, 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:24.119 Homemade Theater had their own television show on CBC for 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:28.480 three years, which was a show for children called Homemade Television, 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:33.640 and we were so completely improper on so many levels. 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:35.439 We should never have been on that show. But we 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:37.560 were sort of like Monty Python for kids. 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.720 So in the back of your mind, we were saying, well, 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:43.879 you know, I'm not on the right track anymore. 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.120 Well, you see, he has a lot of derailment, isn't there, Bob. 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:52.639 I mean there's a certain amount of you know, he 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.160 starts out wanting to be the Beatles, and now he's, 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.800 you know, a singer songwriter, and now he's this, now 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:00.320 he's that. You know. I just took all the gigs 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:02.680 I could because I could try to do them. And 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.480 at the same time, when we were doing Homemade Theater, 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:07.840 I was still doing my gigs as a singer songwriter 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.200 in certain clubs, and I was starting to produce records 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.119 because I had fallen into that. So there was a 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.159 lot of things going on, Bob that were paying the 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:21.399 bills in a way that was good enough, but I 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:22.520 could keep doing all of them. 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.320 Yeah, Okay, how did you end up producing records? And 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:30.399 how did you end up giving up being a singer songwriter? 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:36.040 Yeah? How did I give up the dream? Well, first 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.080 of all, I want to be honest and say that 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:41.280 I don't think I had what was needed to be, 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.159 you know, in the pantheon of the James Taylors and 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.720 the Neil Young's and the Joni Mitchells, et cetera. I 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.560 think I was good, And I think what was really 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.760 obvious to me, though, is I fell into producing a 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.040 friend's demo, and because I sort of knew a little 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.760 bit about what producing is, which of course were is directing, 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:03.760 I sort of fell into this and we got a 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:07.359 record deal from the demo, and that was Dan Hill, 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.280 a Canadian artist that I had been playing gigs alongside of. 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:15.000 And all of a sudden we had a first album 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.600 of Dance released in Canada and it went gold. We 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.159 had a hit record in Canada. It got released in 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.840 the States, it didn't do anything. We had a second 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.399 album of Dance, which again went gold in Canada but 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:30.359 didn't get well received in the US on twentieth Century 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:34.240 Fox Records and by that time, I had really said, 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:36.480 you know what, I'm not going to go in front 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:38.320 of the camera. I'm going to go behind the camera. 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:43.240 I like arranging music, I like producing records. I want 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:44.400 to do this and I liked it. 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:48.680 So tell us about making the hit with Dan Hill? 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:53.560 Sure, I mean our third album, which was going to 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:58.879