1 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Prognosis. I'm Laura Carlson. It's day one and 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: twenty four since coronavirus was declared a global pandemic. Today's 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: main story. Much of what we know suggests the virus 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: is transmitted through tiny droplets from infected people, but researchers 5 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: are now looking at tiny air assaults that linger in 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: the air and whether they too can infect us. But first, 7 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: here's what happened in virus news today. The World Health 8 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: Organization had a sobering message at a briefing this morning. 9 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen won't disappear quickly, and it's unrealistic to hang 10 00:00:54,640 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: our hopes on a perfect vaccine emerging soon. You h 11 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: Joe head tatris at Anam Gabrie Sus said strong government 12 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: leadership was necessary and that fighting the virus is a 13 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: long term commitment. In the US, the virus is making 14 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: a comeback in states that thought they had already endured 15 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 1: the worst of it. California, Louisiana, Michigan, and Washington State 16 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: are seeing case counts climb again after months of declines. 17 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: It's not just a matter of more testing, hospitalizations, and 18 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: in some places, deaths are rising too. Experts say the 19 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: diseases on the rise in these states for the same 20 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: reasons it's breaking records in places like Florida. Those reasons 21 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: include a population no longer willing to stay inside, Republicans 22 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: who refuse face masks as a political statement, street protests 23 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: over police violence, and young people convinced the virus won't 24 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: seriously hurt them. Early in the pandemic, New York had 25 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: one of the worst outbreaks in the US and took 26 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: some of the strictest lockdown measures that has paid off. 27 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: This weekend, New York City had its first day without 28 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: a COVID nineteen death since the outbreak, But even there, 29 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: officials are seeing a worrying trend. Cases are rising among 30 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: people aged twenty nine. Today, Mayor build A Blasio said 31 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: the city will work to educate young people on the 32 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: importance of wearing masks and keeping socially distant. And now 33 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: for today's main story, we're learning more about how stars 34 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: cove two, the virus that causes COVID nineteen, is spread 35 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: from person to person. For the most part, it happens 36 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: when we're in close contact with an infected person who 37 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: we met. Tiny liquid particles by coughing, sneezing, speaking, or singing. 38 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: These droplets come out even when we just breathe. Normally, 39 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: you get the virus by inhaling the droplets, having them 40 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: travel into your ears or nose, or getting one stock 41 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: on your hand which you then absentmindedly used to touch 42 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: in orifice. But at a New Year's lunch in China, 43 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: a group of people got sick in a way that 44 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 1: suggested there might be another way you can get COVID nineteen, 45 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Senior editor Jason Gale reports on the latest worry 46 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: that virus laden aerosols floating in gas clouds could infect us. 47 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: In China, the holidays main mass migration. People travel across 48 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: the country to catch up with relatives, enjoy reunion dinners, 49 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: and hand out cash filled red envelopes to children. A 50 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: family from Wuhan, the central Chinese city where the coronavirus emerged, 51 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: was part of that mass movement. Back in January. This 52 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: family of ten quarter train to the southern city of 53 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: Guangzho the day before, having lunch in a crowded restaurant. 54 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 1: It was the eve of the lunar New Year. What 55 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: they didn't know at the time was that one of them, 56 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: six year old art, was coming down with COVID nineteen. 57 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: A few hours after leaving the restaurant, the retiree developed 58 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: a fever and cough. It means she was probably at 59 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 1: her most infectious when she squeezed into a seat at 60 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: a round table at the back of the restaurant as 61 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: the family enjoyed lunch and air conditioner blue air across 62 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: the back of the room where they were seated. That 63 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: was a few feet from two other families at neighboring tables. Importantly, 64 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: their air conditioning unit on the wall facing the aren't 65 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: incubating COVID was blowing air over all three tables, and 66 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: it turns out that warm breeze and lunch were the 67 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: only things these families shared. A week and a half later, 68 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: on February five, nine more of the diners had come 69 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: down with COVID nineteen, four members of the Wuhan family 70 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: plus five members of the two other families, but none 71 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: of the waiters or seventy three other patrons in the 72 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: room contracted the disease, and neither did anyone back at 73 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: the Guangzho Hotel. Whether the Wuhan family was staying researchers 74 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: investigating the outbreak were in luck. There was a close 75 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: circuit television camera in the restaurant, and the footage showed 76 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: no close contact between each table's guests, aside from several 77 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: seats being back to back. So to figure out how 78 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: the virus spread over several meters, the researchers simulated the 79 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: air flow across the three tables, and it pointed to 80 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: what many scientists had feared. That is that the virus 81 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: could be suspended and moved about in the ambient air 82 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: long enough and far enough to cause multiple infections. That 83 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: this could occur is no surprise for Professor Ben Cowling, 84 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: head of epidemiology and bios Statistics at the University of 85 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: Hong Kong, then assisted China in the early study of 86 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: the coronavirus. Is transmission dynamics. When I hear that transmissions 87 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: going on after prolong closed contact, it makes me think 88 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: that aerosols are playing a role mostly at short range, 89 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: but in rooms where there's poorer ventilation, people spend a 90 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: longer period of time. You might see a little bit 91 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: a long way to transmission. And we have seen outbreaks 92 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: in coll centers. Enquired practices in restaurants and bars and nightclubs, 93 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: and that's the kind of situations where where if their 94 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: ventilation is not as good, you could see a bit 95 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: of aerosols happening. The outbreak in the Guangho restaurant has 96 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: become the touchstone in a global debate about how the 97 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: coronavirus can spread in poorly ventilated spaces and the x 98 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: your measures that may be required to halt it. At 99 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: the heart of the controversy remained lingering questions about how 100 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: often such airborne transmission occurs. After all, the gang incident 101 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: shows a majority of diners in the restaurant remained healthy, 102 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: and so did roughly half of the people at the 103 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: table where the infected woman from Woohan was sitting, and 104 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: at the tables on either side of hers. He's been 105 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: calling again. Yes, So in Hong Kong, we've we've done 106 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: a bit of that analysis. We've found that seventy of 107 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: copy cases didn't pass infection to anyone else, and it 108 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: was just a minority. It was a minority that caused 109 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,239 Speaker 1: on was transmission, and that's presumably a minority of cases 110 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: are more contagious, and then among those, some of them 111 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: have the potential to spread to lots of others, and 112 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,119 Speaker 1: so we have this super spreading phenomenon. And I think 113 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: when there is super spreading going on, the most likely 114 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: explanation for that is also aerosoul transmission. But that's not 115 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: to scare everybody. That's just to state that the fact 116 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: that viruses can spread in this way and we need 117 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: to be aware of that, and ventilation can be particularly important. 118 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: The World Health Organization updated a scientific paper about the 119 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: transmission of the Sasko V two virus on Thursday. It 120 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: said it doesn't rule out the possibility of airborne transmission 121 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: in crowded areas or indoor venues with poor ventilation. However, 122 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: the Geneva Base Agency said more researchers needed because in 123 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: such cases there may be alternative explanations as to how 124 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: people got sick, such as respiratory droplets that fell onto surfaces. 125 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: The w h O faces pressure from scientists led by 126 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: Lydia Morawska, director of the International Laboratory for Equality and 127 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: Health at Queensland University of Technology in Australia. Lydia argues 128 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: that hamwashing and physical distancing alone aren't enough to stem 129 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: infections because in the air and to research over the 130 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: past three months found the presence of the spirals in 131 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: the air and retrospectively that it incurreted people. Lydia and 132 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: a colleague published an open letter in a medical journal 133 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: last week calling on the w h O and other 134 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: international groups to address the airborne transmission of COVID nineteen. 135 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: The letter documented research that was backed by two d 136 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: and thirty nine scientists. It asked officials to consider such 137 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: precautions as increasing ventilation and avoiding recirculating potentially virus late 138 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: and air, and buildings like hospitals and schools to avoid 139 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: the kind of scenario played out in the restaurant in 140 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: Guangzho in January. What's being debated isn't what happens when 141 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: an infected person coughs or sneezes globes of virus laden liquid. 142 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: That's a long established murder of infection. Rather, it's where 143 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: the tiny particles known as microdroplets and aerosols stay afloat 144 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: long enough to be inhaled and cause infection deeper in 145 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: the lungs, and therefore what troll measures to use. Resolving 146 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: these questions is becoming increasingly urgent as workplaces, schools, and 147 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: colleges reopen in the United States, President Donald Trump has 148 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: rejected school reopening guidelines that included increasing the circulation of 149 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: outdoor air as too difficult. I spoke with Lydia in 150 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: late June, a week before her letter came out to 151 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: help clear up some questions I had. Um. I think 152 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: people have kind of mistakenly thought that there are droplets 153 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: and then there are aerosols, and that it's very sort 154 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: of binary, when in fact, there's a whole gradient of 155 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: size of these particulars that come out of one's respiratory tract. 156 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: Can you talk about that, Well, there is a very 157 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: big mess in in relation to the terminology, and it's 158 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: often considered that this small part ticles emitted excribed by 159 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: people are called aerosols and the pick are called droplets. 160 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: It's nothing like this. Aerosols. The definition of aerosols are 161 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: liquid and solid particles in the air. Now droplets are 162 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: liquid particles, So basically droplets are liquid aerosols. So therefore 163 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: we are not talking smaller be It has nothing to 164 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: do with size. Our breath isn't usually visible, but when 165 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: it's really cold, we can see it as puffs of stain. 166 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: Lidia said it's a helpful visualization of how virus leading 167 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: particles of varying sizes can be expelled from an infected 168 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: person in a turbulent gas cloud. But are these virus 169 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: leading aerosols infectious? This depends on the condition of the 170 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: of the environment. Viruses of the skype are like cool 171 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: air and drysh conditions, so if these are the conditions 172 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: like in many office buildings, for example, this could be 173 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: both conditions. If, on the other hand, we go outside 174 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: where there is hot and in addition new we radiation, 175 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: well within very short period of time, they will be deactivated, 176 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: which suggests being outside is less risky for catching the 177 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: coronavirus than being indoors well, very much so. But this 178 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: is not the only aspect, since you'll be radiation. It 179 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: is the very fast dilution outdoors, which is a well 180 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: large reservoir. Dilution is very fast, so therefore the airborne 181 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: transmission outdoors has very little chances to walk. Of course, 182 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: there is still that contact if you are standing next 183 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: to somebody for long time and this person's misses that 184 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: you or something like this, that's the close contact. But 185 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: otherwise in the airborne transmission it's much less likely to 186 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: occur outdoors. In her letter last week, Lydia recommended high 187 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: efficiency air filtration and jem sidle ultra violet lights they 188 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: used to reduce the risk of airborne transmission. She also 189 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: pointed to simpler protective measures like supplying clean out or 190 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: air and avoiding overcrowding on public transport. Since siskov to emerge, 191 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: Lydia's written or contributed to more than a dozen papers 192 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: on the potential for the pandemics airborne spread. This makes 193 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: me even sort of more on acced determined to get 194 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: something done about this, because once this pandemic is over, 195 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: probably won't happen dead quickly at once the pandemic is over. Again, 196 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: this and this is not the issues are not recognized 197 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: and not taking Carl and we are we were in 198 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: the same situation during the next person. Evidence for airborne 199 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: transmission of the coronavirus is still emerging and incomplete examples 200 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: like the Gango restaurant suggests it's the most plausible explanation 201 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: for how people were infected in some situations. While scientists 202 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: conduct further research to better understand why, how, and to 203 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: what extent these microscopic particles can spread, COVID nineteen. There 204 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: are things we can do to mitigate that risk. Stay 205 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: home if you're sick, coffin, sneeze into your elbow, observe 206 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: physical distancing recommendations, avoid crowded, poorly ventilated indoor spaces, and 207 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: where it's appropriate, where a face mask. That was Jason 208 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: Gale in Melbourne. And that's it for our show. For 209 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: coverage of the outbreak from one and twenty bureaus around 210 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: the world, visit Bloomberg dot com slash coronavirus and if 211 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: you like the show, please leave us a review and 212 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It's the best 213 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: way to help more listeners find our global reporting. The 214 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: Prognosis Daily edition is produced by Topher Foreheads Jordan Gaspore, 215 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: Magnus Hendrickson and me Laura Carlson. Today's main story was 216 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: reported by Jason Gale. Original music by Leo Sidran. Our 217 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: editors are Rick Shine and Francesca Levi. Francesca Levie is 218 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's head of podcasts. Thanks for listening.