1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: one thirty two. Tampa police on the hunt for a 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: killer after the shooting gats of three people in ten days. 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: We will hunt this son of a down until we 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: find the three victims gunned down less than half a 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: mile apart. Tampa's mayor doing what he can to reassure 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: the public so that they've added a thousand street lights 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: to the Seminal Heights neighborhood and that they won't stop 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: until that killer is caught. Nobody comes into our house 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: and does this, Not now, Not every authorities poring over, 11 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: bringing surveillance video for clues, looking at this person of 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: interest walking alone, wearing a hood on the night of 13 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: the first killing. I need that Seminar Heights community to 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: stand up, and I need them to point out who 15 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: that man is. You guys, go hunt him down and 16 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: bring his head to me. A fourth slaying, a fourth murder, 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: is stoking fear across a Tampa, Florida neighborhood. They Tampa 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: seial killer. Many people thought he had just gone away. 19 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: Not so in the last hours he strikes again, gunning 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 1: down a man in plane sight. I Nancy Grace, this 21 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I 22 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: want to go straight out to w f l a's 23 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: meridisin Culo, who was on the scene of the shooting 24 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: of the fourth murder attributed to the Tampa Cereal killer 25 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: within minutes literally of the slaying. Meridisin Ciolo, what can 26 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: you tell us? So, the shots were called in about 27 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: four fifty one UM Seminal Heights, still highly saturated with 28 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: law enforcement officers even though there's been no attacks in 29 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: over a month now. So officers were on scene within 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: a minute of the shooting. They found sixty year old 31 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: Donald Felton laying in the middle of the road. Mr. 32 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: Felton had arrived early for a shift volunteering actually at 33 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: a church UH shelter where they feed the homeless, and 34 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: he was there. He would volunteer twice a week and 35 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: he was arriving early to get that set up. UM. 36 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: Witnesses say that he had crossed the road UM perhaps 37 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: to talk to somebody, maybe greeting someone who was also 38 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: arriving UH, and that someone came up behind him and 39 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: shot and ran off UM. There was at least one 40 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: witness to this who was able to get probably the 41 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: best witness description we've had so far. Uh. It does 42 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: appear to coincide with what we saw on the surveillance 43 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: video from the first murder. UH. Tampa police tell us 44 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: they are investigating this and consider it to be in 45 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: relation to the previous murders. They are still not giving 46 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: us any information in terms of ballistics. I did specifically 47 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: ask about that. Those are things that they are not 48 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: talking about at this point. But Mr Felton was dead 49 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: on the scene again sixty years old. Um, and this 50 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: person who killed him, same emo, came out of nowhere, 51 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: it was dark shot and killed him, uh mirror a 52 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: bus stop and and made off into the neighborhood. And 53 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: SWAT teams have been searching house to house and this 54 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: person is nowhere to be found. Um. There was one 55 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: additional piece of information that I thought was interesting. I've 56 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: not heard Tampa police say this before, and perhaps your 57 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: experts can determine if this is relevant or not. But 58 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: Police Chief Dugan said that he is asking anyone with 59 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: the firearm of any kind to go and look and 60 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: make sure that that firearm is still where they believe 61 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: it is. So to me, I haven't heard that from 62 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: him before. So that may indicate, um, you know, a 63 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: stolen weapon, somebody using someone's weapon without their knowledge. Again, 64 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: your experts can probably speak to that if that's normal 65 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: or not. But I have not heard that from the 66 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: police chiefs. But um, Chief Dugan, our mayor Uh, they 67 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: were on scene within minutes, uh and very concerned. And 68 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: um there has been an all out search trying to 69 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: find this person and still nothing has been well, you know, 70 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: it reeks of desperation when the police are actually running 71 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: door to door searching for the killer or searching for evidence. 72 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: It would be a huge breakthrough for us to know 73 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: details on ballistics such as the AMMO, whether they have 74 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: connected the bullets from the other three victims to this bullet. 75 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: It's very easy to do, is it not? With me? 76 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: Is of course w f l a's meritis sinceulo, but 77 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: psychoanalyst Dr Bethany Marshall, high profile lawyer Troy Slayton, Joseph 78 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, forensics expert professor at Jacksonville State University, and 79 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: syndicated talk show host Dave mac Joseph's got Morgan, very 80 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: very easy to make a ballistics comparison, so we know 81 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: once and for all, this is the same guy. I mean, 82 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: the similarities are overwhelming. Once again, just like the other 83 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: three victims he approaches. The killer approaches a lone victim 84 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: walking in the dark. The others were in the evening. 85 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: This is in the very early morning hours. What's this guy, 86 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: the killer doing up at four a m. Already in 87 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: place stalking a victim. The victim in this case was 88 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: en route to the new season Apostolic ministries where he 89 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: helped feed the homeless Tuesday and Thursday rain or shine. 90 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: So he takes down a living saint, somebody that is 91 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: out doing good, doesn't care who was victim is, shoots him. 92 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: I guarantee you, with the same weapon, same type of 93 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: m O. And it's within the same, very same neighborhood, 94 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: Seminole Heights. Joseph Scott Morgan. Yeah, I think, uh, this 95 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: is kind of interesting, Nancy. He's changed up the m 96 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: O a bit. As you mentioned, the time of day 97 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 1: in which this is perpetrated still dark. In addition, in 98 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,239 Speaker 1: addition to that, I think that what's very interesting about 99 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: this is that we have witness statements. Now, uh, not 100 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: just he wasn't he didn't just simply shoot this person 101 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: in the singular. There were five shots that were fired. 102 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: From an evidentry standpoint, that's significant because if it was 103 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: a semi automatic weapon, we've got brass that's being ejected. 104 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: We can recover that. This is one interesting thing as well. 105 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: This was a panicked type of event where he fired 106 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: bam bam, bam, bam bam. Witnesses state that they saw 107 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: the individual not walk away but run away from the location. Uh, 108 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't like he walked away calmly got in a car, 109 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: not to draw attention to himself. He ran away from 110 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: the location after firing five shots. Why would he fire 111 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: five shots at one person that he was approaching from 112 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: the rear? Uh? I find that very very interesting. A 113 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: killer is talking the city of Tampa as we speak 114 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: with me, Meridith Sincelo, Bethany Marshall, Troyce Layton, Joe's got Morgan, 115 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: Dave mac to Dr Bethany Marshall psycho and was joining 116 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: me out of l A. It reminds me of the 117 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: days when I would be going to d C Washington, 118 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: d C on a nightly basis to work on the 119 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: Larry King Show, and it was in the height of 120 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: the DC stalker scenario. And police were working desperately to 121 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: connect the victims because if they could connect the victims, 122 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: say they all went to the same school, or they 123 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: all lived in the same community, or there's some connection 124 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: that would help them find the killer. There was no 125 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: connection of that nature. Dr Bethany, there was no connection 126 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: that I was just thinking about that when Joe Scott 127 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: was talking about the fact that this guy's sixty years old. 128 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: The perpetrator around it behind him shot multiple times that 129 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: this perpetrator is more interested in killing than in carefully 130 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: selecting his victims. So with serial killers, one of the 131 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: things we see is that they select their victims very carefully, 132 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: because looking for a victim is part of the whole 133 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: ritual of killing. This guy doesn't seem to have Although 134 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: he is technically a serial killer, because he's killing in 135 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: some serial fashion, the symbolism of who the victim is 136 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be that important. It seems to the 137 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: crimes that seems to be more organized around opportunity, the 138 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: time of day, doing it quickly. I sort of had 139 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: this mental image of somebody who's trying to work up 140 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: his courage, is in some kind of a frenzy all 141 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: night long. And has to do it before the sun rises, 142 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: kind of has to get it out of his system. Um, 143 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: and then he goes back to maybe um thinking about it, 144 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: thinking about it, fantasizing about it, and then the urge 145 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: to kill kind of erupts again. Quote the family is 146 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: just torn. The family is taking it quote real hard. 147 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: That is Mr. Felton's brother James, as he speaks about 148 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: the untimely death of his brother who was in and 149 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: out to feed the homeless early in the morning at 150 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: a m we're crossing the road. He is gunned down dead, 151 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 1: we now believe by the Tampa serial killer. The description 152 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: of the purp is a black mail six ft to 153 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: six ft two, thin build, light skin complexion, armed with 154 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: a large black pistol, wearing all black clothing. And to me, 155 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, high profile defense attorney out of l A, 156 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: the all black clothing to me is a psychological clue. 157 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: You know these criminals that kind of dress up for 158 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: their crime, you know, they put on a ninja outfit. Seriously, 159 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: I've watched video of home invaders that were dressed like Ninja's. 160 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: Here's the guy that gets totally decked out, like you 161 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: know in the Missy Beaver's case, Troy Slayton, the guy 162 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: gets dressed up or the person gets dressed up in 163 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: SWAT tactical gear. This guy is decked out for a 164 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: serial killing for his fourth victim. Like Dr Bethany Marshall said, 165 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: somewhat of a ritual. He's playing the part, the part, 166 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: the role as he sees it, Yeah, as a serial 167 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: killer would dress. He is planning this very carefully, Troy, 168 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: even though his victims are not connected. Well, that would 169 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: certainly be the argument that prosecutors will make Nancy as 170 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: he attempts if he's ever caught to a certain insanity defense, 171 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: because if he is taking all these steps, then that 172 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: would seem to cut right at the heart of the 173 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: defense of him not being able to tell right from wrong, 174 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: not being able to appreciate the wrongfulness of the acts. 175 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: And I think it's also important to note that the 176 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: police have offered a dollar reward that really helps to encourage, 177 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: but to bring people out of the woodwork if they 178 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: have any information about this horrific killer, you know, dot 179 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: hold on, Dr Bethany, let me go back to Merits 180 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: since ulo who's joining me from w f l A. 181 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: She was at the scene of the murder. Almost immediately 182 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: you're hearing our conversation, Meredith, what what more can you 183 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 1: tell us? Well, I know, Lawn for since very frustrated. 184 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: UM a meeting plan for Tuesday night to address concerns 185 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: in the community, to talk about any leads that they 186 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: had to again call for any information, to bring everybody 187 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: up to speed on where the investigation. UM. They've been. 188 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: They've been asking for leads. You know, please keep sharing 189 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: that video that we saw from the night of the 190 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,719 Speaker 1: first shooting when Benjamin Mitchell Mitchell was killed. They do 191 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: seem to be very confident that all four murders are related. UM. 192 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: Mainly again because of the way these attacks happened. UM. 193 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: Chief Dugan didn't didn't put a whole lot of weight 194 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: on the fact that this was in the morning versus 195 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: at night, UM, because again, you know, early morning, late 196 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: at night near these bus stops, it's dark. Very similar there. Also, 197 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: they seemed to feel that the method in which this occurred, 198 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: UM was very similar to the first crime scene. UM. 199 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: You know our mayor he told me, he said, you know, 200 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to have to tell another family member that, 201 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, someone has died in cold blood and that's 202 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: exactly what happened with Brownie Felton. UM. So we have 203 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: had a PF on the ground here, FBI on the 204 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: ground here since the beginning, but we really saw those 205 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: heightened UM SWAT teams going in uh door to door. 206 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: A colleague of mine actually secured some video from a 207 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: monitoring device inside one of the homes, one of those 208 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: devices that goes on your peephole, that actually shows the 209 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: SWAT team member standing on their front porch knocking. UM. 210 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: So people are here are getting frustrated though, you know, 211 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: they really are they UM. They can't walk a block 212 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: without being stopped uh and questioned by law enforcement, which 213 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: is what makes it all the more frustrating that the 214 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: person that needs to be questioned, UM isn't you know. 215 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,239 Speaker 1: We still don't know. But in terms of additional information, 216 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: I was there on the scene within an hour. I 217 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: was out there all day long, UM, the crime scene 218 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 1: text for their UM until you know, midday UM doing 219 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: their investigation and gathering evidence. UM. And at this point 220 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: there does not seem to be anything further except for 221 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: that witness description tends to coincide with the video that 222 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: we've seen from the first murder in which we saw 223 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: somebody walking down the road casually looking at his phone 224 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: and then within minutes of or seconds of the shots 225 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: being fired, running the opposite direction. That person appeared to 226 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: be a slender person was described as perhaps looking like 227 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,719 Speaker 1: a lighter skin um African American or somebody with that complexion. 228 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: And so there are those similarities, um. And and you know, 229 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: unfortunately that's you know, little pieces of the puzzle. Um. 230 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: But we don't have the puzzle solved. Just a moment, 231 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: I want to jump in and ask Dr Bethany's something. 232 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: It seems like after the other three murders there was 233 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: a heightened awareness for about seventy two hours and everybody 234 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: was lulled back into I was surprised by that. To Nancy, 235 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: and also what Meredith is saying that people were a 236 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: little annoyed at being questioned or as they're walking down 237 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: the street. I would think people would be relieved that 238 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: law enforcement is out there. I would think this would 239 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: be foremost in their minds, um, especially since this victim. 240 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: I'm very struck by by the weaponry, even though obviously 241 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: I'm a psychoanalist, I'm not a ballistic expert, but unlike 242 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: John Lee Malvo the DC Snipers. I mean, they they 243 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: were very complex in their methods. Remember they they had 244 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: high powered rifles. They shot from the back of their car. 245 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: Do you remember that that they actually equipped their cars 246 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: so that they could shoot from a long range and 247 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: target unsuspecting victims. This guy seems to I guess I 248 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: have a handgun. He runs up. He's very up close 249 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: and personal with his victims. So either he really wants 250 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: to see what he's doing more closely, or it's more 251 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: thrilling to get close to his victims, or Nancy, he's 252 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: just really low functioning. I mean, my thought was maybe 253 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: he's a younger guy, maybe lives with his parents, doesn't 254 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: have a car, doesn't have the money for a more 255 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: sophisticated weapon, so he's kind of using what he has 256 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: and doing it on foot. And I wouldn't be surprised 257 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: if this is somebody who is not doing very well 258 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: in the world. It doesn't have a job, hangs out 259 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: all day at home. I think that the question to 260 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: ask people in that neighborhood is who is living with 261 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: family members, who is kind of like a deadbeat, not 262 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: going to work during the day, and somebody who may 263 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: be coming and going a lot from a residence that 264 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: a residence that's not primarily their own. Police seem to 265 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: believe he lives in that neighborhood, or he frequents that neighborhood, 266 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: or he's attached to that neighborhood in some way. What's 267 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: the attachment. If we knew where he was running too, 268 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: we might have an idea of who he is. As 269 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: of now, the Tampa, Florida serial killer has taken the 270 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: life of a fourth vitim and the city is under siege. 271 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: I want to pause and think not only our guests, 272 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: but our partner today making air program possible. All you 273 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: business owners out there and know how important it is. 274 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: You've got to keep going forward no matter what. 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That's pound two fifty grace. 311 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: On your cell, Dial pound to fifty and say grace. 312 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: Our specialists are standing by a father of four dead. 313 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: A father of four dead. No, he's not killed as 314 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: a war hero. He was not killed um in an 315 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: home invasion. He was minding his own business, driving down 316 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: the street when from overhead, an enormous rot was thrown 317 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: from an overpass, striking his car. He's dead. He's dead 318 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: from this mortal blow. And now we find out the 319 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: purps did it for fun, even a few days before 320 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: throwing a recliner off the bush road overpass onto I 321 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:33,959 Speaker 1: Why why leaving a father of four dead. Everyone's lives 322 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: changed forever. I want to go straight out to crime stories. 323 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: Contributing investigative reporter Larry Mayher Larry, thank you for being 324 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: with us. Happens, who were all between the ages of 325 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: fifteen and seventeen, had for several days been playing some 326 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: sort of game whereby they would drive a pickup truck 327 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: out onto an overpass over and throw something or several 328 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: somethings off of it. In the case of the Kenneth 329 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: White accident, which was the victim in this particular case, 330 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: there were whoa whoa wait a minute, told your horses, 331 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: Larry Mayer, an accident. You think it was an accident 332 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: that all five of them got together on that overpass, 333 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: that accident, They heaved the rock over and then laughed 334 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: their heads off. Let me rephrase that. In the case 335 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: of the Kenneth White collision, um it was about a 336 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: six pound rock or perhaps a piece of concrete. There 337 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: were as many as twenty rocks or pieces of concrete 338 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: scattered across the pavement on that day alone. In addition 339 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: to the recliner, there was also a tire that had 340 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: been thrown off of an overpass and a shopping card. 341 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: This had been going on for several days in two 342 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: different counties. And I didn't know about the shopping cart. 343 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: They a shopping cart off and overpass. That's correct a 344 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: party to believe, aren't you supposed to be? And would 345 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: think that they could have found something better to do 346 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: with their time. One of the defendants happens to be 347 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: the son of a school board member, so perhaps the 348 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: parents that there could have suggested an after school activity 349 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: for the child. I don't know. I don't call people 350 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: six fifteen, sixteen years old. They're not you know, they're miners. True, 351 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: but they knew darn well what they were doing. I'm 352 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: talking about mckayden Payne sixteen, Trevor Gray fifteen, also Alexander 353 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: Miller and Mark Seles Celestelski sixteen all have pled not guilty. Question, 354 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: how were they found? Troy Slayton, high profile defense lawyer 355 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: out of l A. You heard Larry Mahern even after 356 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: I called him on it. He first called it an accident, 357 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: then he called it a collision. You know what. In 358 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: my book, this is murder. This father of four is dead. 359 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: And they've had two dry runs on this one throwing 360 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: a recliner onto I s people driving, then a shopping 361 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: cart like from Kroger or public X over the overpass, 362 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: throw it over on I with cars speeding along below them, 363 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: and now a rock, this cement block, Troice Layton went 364 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: through his windshield and hit him in the head. The 365 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: mother has been describing how difficult it was to tell 366 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: her five year old son that daddy is dead. Now, 367 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: that is not an accident, Troice lat It may not 368 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: be an accident, but it may not be intentional murder either, Nancy, 369 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: And it's certainly not for all fy we don't know 370 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: who did what. And if there's four people stand in 371 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: there and one other person does it, that doesn't make 372 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: all four of them necessarily guilty of murder. And also 373 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: important to note, in Michigan Bank Goodness, the United States 374 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: Supreme Court overturned the the procedure that used to go 375 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: on in Michigan where a judge sitting alone in a 376 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: juvenile court could sentence a juvenile to life without possibility 377 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: of parole. That was deemed unconstitutional. They're all entitled to 378 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: a full jury trial. Well, they're gonna get a jurgill 379 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: because they're gonna be bound over and treated as adults. 380 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: There's not going to be a juvenile judge prosecuting and 381 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: a judicating this case. This is going to be bound 382 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: over to Nancy at age fifteen, their brains are not 383 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: fully developed enough to potentially form the the requisite men's ray. 384 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: And I'm sure that my colleague, esteemed psychologist Bethany Marshall 385 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: could chime in a little bit more. Be careful what 386 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: you ask for you I surely get at Troy's Layton. 387 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: That's why we have special rule for juveniles. The purpose 388 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: is supposed to be rehabilitation and not punishment. Now that's 389 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: generally true unless you're talking about the designated felonies. Designated 390 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: felonies for which almost almost every juvenile over the age 391 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: of twelve will be sent to Big Court. And those 392 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: felonies would be murder, rape, aggravated aggravated assault, um, aggravated sodomy. 393 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: What am I missing? Oh, armed robbery. Yeah, the five 394 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: designated felonies. You do one of those, you're going to 395 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: Big Court. Now, let's go as you request. And I 396 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: remember you asked for it to Dr Bethany Marshall. Psychoanalysts 397 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,479 Speaker 1: joining us way in, Dr Bethany Well, I was thinking 398 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: about there's research into empathy and young people. One of 399 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: those things we know is that by the time a 400 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: child is seventeen months old, they are capable of empathy. 401 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: If a mother cries or is sad, the seventeen month 402 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: old will will pap a mother attempt to cheer the 403 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: mother up. So at that young age, So the fact 404 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: that a sixteen year old, a seventeen year old does 405 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: not have the basic empathy towards human life, they're not 406 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: too young, Nancy to have it. And I'm with you 407 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: on this. I think this was intentional murder. I think that, 408 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: as we've talked about so many times, with these kinds 409 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: of crimes, usually there's when groups of boys or men 410 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: predate together or commit crimes together. There's usually one ringleader 411 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: who's sociopathic, manipulative, loves the power, and then that person 412 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: recruits other more weaker vulnerable males to act in concert 413 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: with them. I think that they were building up to 414 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: the rock. I mean I thought, I think they started 415 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: with a shopping car at the Recliner to try to 416 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: see what these objects would do. But you know, when 417 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: you drop a rock on a car, it's going to 418 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: kill somebody. It's it's not rocket science to figure that out. 419 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: So just because they did what pranksters do doesn't mean 420 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: that they didn't have the intent to kill somebody. Well, 421 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: there's actually another incident in there, because you've got the recliner, 422 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: you've got the shopping cart, and then you've got the death. 423 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: But Jim Schultz was driving about seventy mph south on 424 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: Interstate seventy five in his Mazda. He went to the 425 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: north side of that overpass. He suddenly felt something very odd. 426 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: He said, I didn't have a lot of time to think, 427 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: and I thought, what is that? It landed to the 428 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: left side of the overpass. He heard a thud, founded 429 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: by a dragging sound. He got off at the next 430 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: exit and pulled into a gas station and he called police. 431 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: Another rock was tossed over the overpass and smashed into 432 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: the vehicle the victim was writing in. So apparently they 433 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: threw one cement block over and missed Jim Schultz and 434 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: threw another. So there's a fourth and if this is true, 435 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: there's a fourth incident involved. To Joseph Scott Morgan, you know, 436 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you know no offense, buddy, But you never 437 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: hear about a bunch of girls or women wilding or 438 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: getting Hey, let's go throw a cement block often overpass 439 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: and kill somebody. Why Why is that? Joe Scott I mean, 440 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: you're the death investigator, You're the forensic sexpert at Jacksonville 441 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: State University. What is it about men? Why did they 442 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 1: think it's a good idea to throw a cement boulder 443 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: over and overpass onto traffic? Why? Why is it them? 444 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: And I'm not a manator. I'm actually married to one. 445 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: I gave birth to one. So what I'm saying is 446 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: I don't get it well. As my grandma would say, Nancy, 447 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: no home training in this particular case. Uh, And let 448 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: me let me bring something up. The Esteem Council mentioned 449 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: a moment ago he wanted to throw out the term ministry. Well, 450 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: let me throw out of actus reys, which is the 451 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: guilty act. I think that it could be argued from 452 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: a prosecutorial standpoint that all of those rocks that have 453 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: been found on the side of the road, including the 454 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: aforementioned recliner, can all be interpreted as well as practice. 455 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,239 Speaker 1: And this time they hit the target they were aiming for. 456 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: And let me break it down for you how this 457 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: kind of works out, because this is the picture that's 458 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: going to be painted in court. They had all this 459 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: time to practice hitting a target and now this father 460 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: of four, that's right, four children without a daddy, is 461 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: driving down the road, and let's just say he was 462 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: driving seventy miles per hour in his little truck with 463 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: a ladder lash to the top, working for his family, 464 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: trying to support him, and all of a sudden a 465 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: piece of cement jagged comes crashing through his windshield. It's 466 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: not like he hit this thing as it was standing alone. 467 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: This is a moving object which struck another moving object. 468 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: So we talked about the force that is applied. Well, 469 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: if he's traveling at seventy miles per hour, we can 470 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: say pretty securely that this rock as it struck him, 471 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: was moving probably at a rate of in excess of 472 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: a hundred miles per hour when it struck him in 473 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: his head and his head was crushed. This was a violent, 474 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: violent act that they have been practicing for leading up 475 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: to this moment. Tom. This was not some mischievous, one 476 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: off type of event. This is going to be a 477 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: very very difficult case for the defense to have to 478 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: defend against. You know, Troy's layton, the way he set 479 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: esteemed counsel it, it kind of sounded like an insult. 480 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if you picked up on that, but um, 481 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: Troy here's another issue, troyce Layton. The law in criminal 482 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: law does not presume a lot all the burdens on 483 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: the state. But the law does presume one thing. The 484 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: law presumes one intends the natural consequences of their act. 485 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: What does that mean? It means this. This is how 486 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: I would put it to a jury. If I took 487 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,719 Speaker 1: a piece of fine china, the kind you hold up 488 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: to the light and you can see your hand through 489 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: the other side, and I fleeing it to the cement floor, 490 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: the law presumes I intend the natural consequence of my 491 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: act to break the china. You can't throw a piece 492 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: of china down on a cement floor. Goh, what didn't 493 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: mean to break it? No, I e air. Go You 494 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: cannot throw a cement block or rock off an overpass 495 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: onto a car going along at seventy miles an hour 496 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: and go, I didn't mean to hurt anybody. Oh, yes 497 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: you did, And the law will presume you intend the 498 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: natural consequence of your act. Listen to this. Troy Slayton, 499 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: the guy that escaped Mr Schultz. He says that night 500 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: I came home and I woke up in the middle 501 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: of the night, and I said we could have been 502 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: planning a funeral from me. That's what he thought. And 503 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: he had looked out at his car and he could 504 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: see oil coming out from under it. There was a 505 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: dent in the vehicle cross member. He said, yeah, a 506 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: rock had been thrown at him too, So what about that, 507 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: Troyce Layton, Nancy. The law also looks at an actor 508 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: in a way that other reasonable people in that same 509 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: position would act. And what I mean by that is, 510 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: these are kids that are growing up in a gaming 511 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: culture where they may not be able to appreciate, like 512 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: you and I could be full consequences of throwing something 513 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: off a bridge. I don't even know what you're saying. 514 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: What's a gaming culture? This is a gaming culture? Is 515 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: where these kids are are playing these video games that 516 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: detached them from reality, that doesn't give them video games. 517 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: Is there any way we can blame in on what's 518 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: that video game? Mortal Kombat? Can we blame that again? 519 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: Good luck with that, Chroice Layton. Nobody the jury is 520 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: gonna buy that. Blame it on the the gaming culture 521 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: these kids. That's not gonna work. These kids may may 522 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: that they may not very well have been able to 523 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: appreciate the full consequences of throwing a rock, especially if 524 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: all the times they did before nothing bad happened other 525 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: than a car swerving out of the way. Okay, you 526 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: know what. You sell that to a jury and you'll 527 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: be salesman of the year. I want to pause and 528 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: thank our partners that are making our program possible and 529 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: shining a light on what has happened to this victim. 530 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: And it is link a k C. Listen, Christmas is 531 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: right around the corner with all the other holidays. Don't 532 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: leave your dog out of the fun. Get the link 533 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: a k C smart collar. 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You'll 553 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: get thirty percent off and free shipping if you use 554 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: code Nancy at the link akc dot com. Check out 555 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: code Nancy at link akc dot com save and free shipping. 556 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: You're not gonna get that at the pet store link 557 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: a k c dot com Code Nancy link a k 558 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: c dot com. Thank you for all the joy you're 559 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: bringing to people in their pets, but thank you for 560 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 1: being our sponsor today. You know, my father, God rest 561 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: his soul, was a World War Two veteran, and I 562 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: think about it so often. When he went through he 563 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: lied to the military about his age so he could 564 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: sign up and go fight for our country, turning down 565 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: a basketball scholarship and taking to the oceans right now. 566 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: The family of a World War Two veteran is devastated 567 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: after secret video reveals the worst. A hidden camera installed 568 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: at Northeast Atlanta Health and Rehabilitation Center shows the veterans 569 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 1: repeated calls for help. With me right now, longtime friend 570 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: and calling. The host of late Feed on eleven Alive 571 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: dot Com, joined by eleven Alive reporter Ntiia Lance Vinny Politan, 572 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: is with us. Vinny, you correct this case wide open? 573 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: Tell me everything then, Nancy, how are you so great 574 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: to speak with you? Let's start here. I mean, you're 575 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: eighty nine years old. You lived an incredible life. You're 576 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: a heroic man. You deserve dignity. You should live with dignity, 577 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: you should die with dignity. And that's not what happened 578 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: to James Tampsey. He was in a nursing home and 579 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: his family was a little suspicious that something was going on, 580 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: but they had no idea exactly what was going on. 581 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: So the family of this World War two vette decides 582 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: to put a hidden camera so they can see what happens. 583 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 1: And um, what they saw and and it's almost unthinkable. Nancy, 584 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: you're talking about a man who is calling for help, 585 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,720 Speaker 1: gasping for air, trying to do something to get someone's 586 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,919 Speaker 1: at because he is in extreme distress and needs help, 587 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: and no one responds when they finally get there, Nancy, 588 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: what did they do or what don't they do? They 589 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: don't do CPR, they don't try to help them. They 590 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: know some some machine that he's hooked up to his malfunctioning. 591 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: And you can hear these nursing home nurses laughing on 592 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: the video as this eighty nine year old father and 593 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: grandfather takes his last guests of air on this earth. 594 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: It was it was so devastating to watch this, and 595 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: I can't imagine how this family reacted to this and 596 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: controlled themselves from just it's disgraceful, disgraceful. And we've spoken 597 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 1: with UM professionals and other nurses and they've never seen 598 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: anything like this. Man. You're just breaking my heart to 599 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: think of that, you know, Vian, I told you it's 600 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 1: coming up on two years this month my dad passed 601 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: away and we were right there with him. Of course, 602 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: everybody else was saying, you can go, Dad, you can go. 603 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,879 Speaker 1: I was going, don't go, do not go, Please, don't go. 604 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: To think that at that moment, those nurses and nurses 605 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: assistants were standing around his bed laughing, Oh oh, like 606 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: a pack of high ENA's. That's just so wrong. As 607 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: he passes on to the next world, I want to 608 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,280 Speaker 1: talk about, Vinnie. What you said that he had called 609 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: and called and called to get help. Now, the secret 610 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: surveillance video says that they responded with something like, you 611 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 1: gotta stop putting that light on. What do you want now? 612 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: You're having anxiety. You just need to calm down. I 613 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: don't understand that it's bad, Nancy. And here's the other 614 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: part of the Nancy. And the reason we were able 615 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 1: to get our hands on this video was because of 616 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,320 Speaker 1: a civil It was filed and through the discovery process 617 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 1: and everything else became a public document. We got a 618 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: nursing home thought to keep this thing from getting released. 619 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, wait a minute, right there, Vinny 620 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,479 Speaker 1: guys with me is Vinny Politan, the host of late 621 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: Feed on eleven alive dot com, and he has cracked 622 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: wide open a case where a World War veteran that 623 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: fought to protect us our country is in what we 624 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: think as one of those nice, so called rest homes 625 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: and the family has no idea what's really going on. 626 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: But they get suspicious and they put in a secret 627 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:42,399 Speaker 1: surveillance camera camera and what they learn is devastating. I mean, 628 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, you stand by when you have a duty 629 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: to take care of somebody and tell him to quote 630 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: calm down while he's dying, and then stand by his 631 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: bed and laugh as he breathes his last breath. That's 632 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: prosecutable to me. I mean in my mind. If you 633 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: have the duty to take care of him and you 634 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: sure that duty, you're in trouble. If these facts are 635 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: tricks called criminally negligent homicide, Nancy. They may not have 636 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: intended to kill him, but they owed a special duty 637 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: because they were caring for him. They this is more 638 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: than just like somebody seeing somebody dying on the side 639 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,919 Speaker 1: of the road. They were there to take care of him. 640 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,320 Speaker 1: So they're gonna suffer not just civil liability, but also 641 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: potentially criminal liability, and it really shocks the conscience. Let 642 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: me ask you this, was there any sort of a 643 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: cover of Vinnipolitan. Well, this is what happened. They got 644 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: sued civilly, and in civil cases, you know there's depositions, 645 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 1: so you bring the nurses in and you ask them 646 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: about what happened. So the lawyer and now the nurses 647 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: have no idea. There's a videotape. So they tell one 648 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,280 Speaker 1: story and then are confronted with the video, and suddenly 649 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: the story changes a little bit, so it changes a 650 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 1: lot drastically, and no explanation for it. There's no um 651 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: reasonable explanation for what happened, and there was absolute lying 652 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: about what had happened in the first part of the deposition, 653 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: and then when they're confronted with the videocaped evidence of 654 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,720 Speaker 1: what really happened to this eighty nine year old world 655 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: were two veteran and hero um, something closer to the 656 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: truth comes out, but it's still not the truth because 657 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: as you as you see, and you can see it 658 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: in our piece as she is speaking, you can see 659 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: what's really happening in the video, and they just don't coincide. 660 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 1: And I loved your pace guys. You can go to 661 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: UM eleven a live dot com. Vinny Politan, host of 662 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 1: Late Feed on eleven and Live dot com, told us 663 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,879 Speaker 1: about this story. We heard about it through him and 664 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: looking at it, it's it's heartbreaking. A hidden camera tells 665 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: the true story of how our US veteran dies after 666 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: calling for help, begging for help, gasping for air. And 667 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: this video shows a decorated World War Two veteran calling 668 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,799 Speaker 1: for help not once too three or four or five, 669 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 1: but six times before he goes unconscious while gasping for air, 670 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 1: while the nurses are all having a good old time 671 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: standing around, laughing, laughing. So, Vinny, you're telling me that 672 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: they were under deposition. They were lying about it until 673 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: and they didn't know this video existed. They had no idea. 674 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: The family put it in there. They were that suspicions, 675 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: you know, like that gut feeling you get that something's 676 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,439 Speaker 1: just not right. So they placed the camera in there, 677 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: and they knew they had the video. The nurses had 678 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: no ideas. So, um, you can imagine they go in 679 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: there and they're going to tell their story because there's 680 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 1: no one to contradict it. At least they thought there 681 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: was no one to contradict it when the videotape and 682 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,760 Speaker 1: unfortunately Mr Dempsey uh contradicts it by um those cries 683 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: for help and and and those last few breaths of air. Um, 684 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,439 Speaker 1: it's horrible, but goodness, there was a video tape. Nancy 685 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: if there's no video tape. This guy, um, Mr Dempsey, 686 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,839 Speaker 1: James Dempsey. When you look at his it looks like 687 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: a navy shot like my dad. Um, he looks to 688 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: me a little bit like Ryan Gosling. I'm just looking 689 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 1: at him in his navy outfit. Now was he the 690 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,799 Speaker 1: one date? Was he in? Um La la land? Was 691 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: that Ryan Gosling? Do I have no It was? Will said, Okay, 692 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: that's who this guy looks like in his youth. All 693 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: these hours past he calls for help six times. He's 694 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: gasping for air. Now. The video includes almost six hours 695 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: of video court deposition from a nursing supervisor, and she 696 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: talks about how she responded to the patient. But the 697 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 1: video shows that never happened. The eight nine year old 698 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: war Vett died. Now. Um it also, and this is 699 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: on the eleven live dot com site. From the time 700 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: you came in, you took over doing prep chess compressions. Yes, 701 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 1: until the paramedics arrived. You give CPR continuously. Oh, I 702 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: can tail Troy s Layton. The lawyers totally setting her up. 703 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: So you keep giving chest compreussion CPR, right, Oh, yes, 704 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: but the video shows Troy nobody doing CPR when the 705 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: paramedics entered the room, she didn't even I mean, it's 706 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:23,320 Speaker 1: in the lie. If this is true, is outrageous? Is 707 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,239 Speaker 1: this is classic impeachment. The attorney did exactly what he's 708 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 1: supposed to do. He knew that he had this information, 709 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 1: and he let her walk down that path of those lies. 710 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: And even if the criminally negligent homicide beery that I 711 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,359 Speaker 1: suggested earlier is time barred by the statute of limitations, 712 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,240 Speaker 1: they may very well be able to, at a minimum 713 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: prosecute these people for perjury or attempted perjury at the 714 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,799 Speaker 1: very minimum. So be any what happens now, because I 715 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: don't want another person to go through what Mr Dempsey did, 716 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 1: God rest his soul. Well, the civil caate, there's if 717 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 1: there's talks in a possible settlement, so that resolves that 718 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,800 Speaker 1: part of it. But the question now is what about 719 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,239 Speaker 1: a criminal case. I mean, Vinny, I don't want to 720 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: think about my mom gasping for air and begging for 721 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: help and nobody coming if I'm not there, right, that's 722 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,880 Speaker 1: the part There no charges yet, But the question is 723 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,759 Speaker 1: will now that this has all been uncovered and it's 724 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: become very public, will there now be some sort of 725 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 1: a criminal investigation into what happened here. You know, I'm 726 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: just curious about what is going to happen now if 727 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,319 Speaker 1: these allegations are true. If they are true and they 728 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,480 Speaker 1: have not yet been proven in a court of law, 729 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,919 Speaker 1: everybody is innocent until they're proven guilty. But if they're 730 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 1: proven true, if there is more evidence, this could very 731 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,560 Speaker 1: likely go straight to a grand jury. Vinny Politan not 732 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: just the host of late Feed on a level line 733 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: dot com, but also practicing lawyer, Vinny, when it goes 734 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,000 Speaker 1: to a grand jury, it's over man. That's going to 735 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: be an indictment if it goes to a grand jury, exactly. 736 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got the videotape. Evidence of the jury 737 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 1: can sit there, grand jury can sit there and watch 738 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:10,160 Speaker 1: exactly what happened off the law, and then we'll see 739 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 1: where everything lands on this one. But it's watch it 740 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:18,440 Speaker 1: over and over, mark my words. Then Dr Bethanie Marshall, 741 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: I mean, don't nurses take some type of a hippocratic oath? Well, 742 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,280 Speaker 1: not only that, but um, they have a license to practice. 743 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,439 Speaker 1: I'm sure elder abuse report was filed. I understand that 744 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,239 Speaker 1: both nurses have given up their licenses. Nancy, you and 745 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: I have covered so many stories over the years where 746 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,759 Speaker 1: people in positions of trust who are supposed to care 747 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:44,840 Speaker 1: for patients abuse them instead. I had flashbacks to um 748 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: so many videos I've seen on the show. One was 749 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,880 Speaker 1: a babysitter that was taking care of a baby and 750 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: kept throwing a ball at it. Another was an emergency 751 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,319 Speaker 1: room where a woman collapsed in the emergency room on 752 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,160 Speaker 1: her face and died over a period of hours, and 753 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 1: the staff kept walking by did nothing to help her. 754 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: And I think that in these cases, these nurses or 755 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 1: these doctors and these people babysitters, who are supposed to 756 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,880 Speaker 1: be helping people with needs, actually resent the needs of 757 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,440 Speaker 1: the child or the needs of the patient. They resented 758 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,160 Speaker 1: they shouldn't be in that profession because they do not 759 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 1: want the other person to have needs. And they become 760 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 1: very callous, and they become very resentful. And I heard 761 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,640 Speaker 1: this guy crying for help. Did you hear him? If 762 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 1: I please help help me? Help me? And they stood 763 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: by and laughed as he was dying. They let the 764 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,759 Speaker 1: body lie on the bed for an hour before they 765 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 1: called mine one. One one of the nurses said, in 766 00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,759 Speaker 1: this callous way, oh, he's dead, and she didn't even 767 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,359 Speaker 1: take his vital signs to make sure he was dead. 768 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,320 Speaker 1: She just assumed he was dead. That's how little they 769 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,080 Speaker 1: cared about this victim. Dave Matt When I hear Bethany 770 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 1: Marshall say it like that, someone has actually dared to 771 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 1: suggest that it was wrong of the family to install 772 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,360 Speaker 1: a secret camera in their day, make out with me 773 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,400 Speaker 1: is Dave max S, indicated talk show host. Go ahead, Dave, Well, Nancy, 774 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 1: you know the interesting part of this is Mr Dempsey, 775 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,680 Speaker 1: the World War Two hero. He was afraid to go 776 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,439 Speaker 1: back to this place, and he is They put the 777 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,439 Speaker 1: they put the nanny camp in the room. His son 778 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,319 Speaker 1: Jim said that they put it in there on his 779 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: request because he had complained about them before and he 780 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,280 Speaker 1: was scared to death to go back. So they calmed 781 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,160 Speaker 1: his fears by saying, here, Dad, we're gonna put this 782 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,600 Speaker 1: nanny camp. We'll see everything. You don't worry about it. 783 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,600 Speaker 1: So he already had a premonition of fear of these 784 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,919 Speaker 1: people doing this to him, and they did the one 785 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,960 Speaker 1: thing that most of us just will weep over it 786 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: when we think about there a hero at eight nine 787 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: crying out for help. I just can't help but put 788 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,239 Speaker 1: my mom or dad in that position and imagine them coming, 789 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,920 Speaker 1: please please help me, and the nurses just laughing and 790 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:53,800 Speaker 1: just very callously saying, oh he's dead. Oh h. Vinnie 791 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,120 Speaker 1: Politan Late Feet on eleven a live dot com. That's 792 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:58,920 Speaker 1: where you can see. In fact, I'm looking at it 793 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,800 Speaker 1: right now. It's the as Vinnie told us, the extended 794 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: deposition of a nurse compared to what's really happening. It's 795 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: juxtaposed against what was really happening. Vinny, thank you so 796 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,520 Speaker 1: much for being with us. Noticial Lance I Nancy Grace 797 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories, signing off, goodbye friends