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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema.

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Speaker 3: This is Rob Lamb and this is Joe McCormick.

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Speaker 2: And on today's episode Weird House Cinema, we're going to

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Speaker 2: discuss not a feature TV or direct video film, but

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Speaker 2: rather a standalone episode of an anthology series. Now, this

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Speaker 2: is something we did once before when we discussed Panos

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Speaker 2: Kosmotos's excellent The Viewing, produced and released as part of

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Speaker 2: Netflix's Giermel del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities. This time, we're

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Speaker 2: going to be discussing nineteen eighty nine's The Soldier and Death,

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Speaker 2: the fifth episode of Jim Hinson's The Storyteller, and an

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Speaker 2: episode that Hinson himself also directed. Joe, were you familiar

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Speaker 2: with this series?

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Speaker 3: I had seen I think one episode before, so not

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Speaker 3: very familiar, and I don't think i'd seen anything from

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Speaker 3: the season with John Hurt. I'd seen something from the Greek.

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Speaker 2: Season, Yeah, the Greek Myths. I think it's like four

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Speaker 2: episode follow up that came afterwards.

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Speaker 3: Different narrator, same dog, is that right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, same dog, but Michael Gambon playing the Greek Storyteller,

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Speaker 2: and in this case, the storyteller is as we'll discuss,

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Speaker 2: played by John Hurt. This is such a terrific series,

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Speaker 2: and the Greek myths also terrific. In my opinion. In

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Speaker 2: this particular episode, The Soldier in Death, I think it

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Speaker 2: just nicely represents what the show is all about. It's

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Speaker 2: probably my favorite episode. It's the one I go to

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Speaker 2: if I'm like, okay, I want to rewatch an episode

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Speaker 2: of the Storyteller. Which one should it be? It's going

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Speaker 2: to be The Soldier in Death. It's just it's wonderful,

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Speaker 2: it's short, it's a highly economic telling of its tale,

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Speaker 2: it has multiple great puppets in it, and of course

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Speaker 2: the central storyteller performance is so well executed as well.

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Speaker 3: I don't at all to insult it by this comparison,

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Speaker 3: because the Storyteller is much more beautiful and old world

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Speaker 3: and has much more creative effects. But in some ways

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Speaker 3: it reminded me of what's the story Wishbone in that

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Speaker 3: it's this.

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Speaker 2: Did you ever watch Wishbone? Oh? I don't think I did. No? Oh, okay, No.

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Speaker 3: Wishbone was a show from the nineteen nineties in which

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Speaker 3: there was a cute, little dog who would relay literary classics,

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Speaker 3: would tell the story of Cyrano to Bergerac or something,

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Speaker 3: and the dog would play the main character in these

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Speaker 3: reenactments of classic literature. But it had that similar nineties

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Speaker 3: anthology feeling, that's trying to take something that is old

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Speaker 3: and dignified and presented in a way that is at

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Speaker 3: least somewhat accessible to children. In the late eighties or

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Speaker 3: early nineties, it had those kind of TV production values, except,

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Speaker 3: of course, the Storyteller is very different in that it

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Speaker 3: has it's it's a little bit more through the mists

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Speaker 3: of antiquity, and it has these effects and sets that

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Speaker 3: are more reflective of Jim Henson's style.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And also I would say I can't compare

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Speaker 2: it to Wishbone, obviously since I haven't seen it. But

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Speaker 2: there is a complexity to the folklore as it's presented

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Speaker 2: in The Storyteller that I think is one of its

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Speaker 2: many charms. Like these are stories that are presented in

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Speaker 2: a way that it seems to capture the ambiguity and

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Speaker 2: sometimes the challenging aspects of the stories. Like these are

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Speaker 2: stories that are often funny and maybe a little bit

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Speaker 2: of tragic at the same time and maybe presents some

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Speaker 2: of the more troublesome aspects of the world in the

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Speaker 2: way that they are presented. So obviously, I've always been

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Speaker 2: a sucker for anthology series, and I remember discovering this

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Speaker 2: one for myself, not during it's an initial its initial run,

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Speaker 2: but when it was repackage as part of nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: nine to the Jim Henson Hour. Only I think eleven

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Speaker 2: or twelve episodes of The Jim Henson Hour Hour actually aired,

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Speaker 2: and I seem to remember it as being like a

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Speaker 2: Sunday early evening spot. So probably not a great great

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Speaker 2: spot for successful television, but that is That's another one

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Speaker 2: of the perplexing things about The Storyteller. Like some of

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Speaker 2: these other some of the other amazing Jim Hinson projects

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Speaker 2: from even from this time period, the Storyteller was not

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Speaker 2: a success. It did not find its audience in its

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Speaker 2: initial run, at least not in the United States, and

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Speaker 2: not in this subsequent run packaged as part of the

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Speaker 2: Jim Henson Hour. It would only really, you know, much

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Speaker 2: be much later that it kind of builds up this

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Speaker 2: cult following and this great, the great deal of appreciation

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Speaker 2: that fans have for it. I've even heard that it had.

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Speaker 2: It exerted its own influence on subsequent fantasy adaptations for television,

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Speaker 2: things like Game of Thrones, even in the way that

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Speaker 2: the way that it presents a fantasy world that feels

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Speaker 2: grounded and magical at the same time. But thinking back,

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Speaker 2: I don't remember what episode I saw for the first time,

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Speaker 2: but when I saw the episode, when I heard the Storyteller,

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Speaker 2: I knew that I'd found something special. And indeed, it's

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Speaker 2: been a series that I find myself continually rediscovering over

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Speaker 2: the years. You know, like several years will pass, my

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Speaker 2: life will change slightly or a lot, and I'll come

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Speaker 2: back to the Storyteller and everything that he has to

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Speaker 2: tell me still resonates, and I find new details that

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Speaker 2: I wasn't aware of the first time, or the second time,

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Speaker 2: or perhaps the third. Yeah. So, on one hand, The

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Speaker 2: Storyteller is a simple concept, right use quality screenwriting, a

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Speaker 2: talented British stage acting pool, and the effects resources of

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Speaker 2: Jim Henson's creature shop to retail classic and or maybe

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Speaker 2: slightly more obscure folk tales, and it succeeds on all

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Speaker 2: those counts. But it is also truly a show about

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Speaker 2: the ancient human practice of oral storytelling. It takes time

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Speaker 2: to deliver key parts of the narrative through storytelling alone.

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Speaker 2: With John Hurt's a storyteller character, often speaking directly to

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Speaker 2: us the viewer, or speaking to his dog. In many ways,

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Speaker 2: everything you see and hear on screen, apart from the

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Speaker 2: storyteller himself, is just an illustration, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: And the storyteller is also in no ways a mere narrator.

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Speaker 2: So for for instance, one could just talking about anthologies.

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Speaker 2: One can easily think of say like the classic Tales

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Speaker 2: from the crypt framing system. Right, cryptkeeper tells you what

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Speaker 2: kind of story you're going to watch, and then the

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Speaker 2: end he sums it up. It's just bookends. But that's

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Speaker 2: not what you get here. The storyteller is and we'll

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Speaker 2: discuss the ways that this happens. Like he's integrated in

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Speaker 2: the delivery of the story in a way that goes

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Speaker 2: beyond him just narrating the act on the screen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would also flag that the narration is very

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Speaker 3: voiced in that it's not just giving you a clean

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Speaker 3: flat explanation of what happens in the story. It's not

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Speaker 3: there just to narrate the action, but it has a

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Speaker 3: lot of flourishes of language and little expressions and things.

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Speaker 3: The storyteller comes through as a personality, and his personality

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Speaker 3: is in the phrasing of how the story is told.

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Speaker 3: So there are a lot of just weird little ticks

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Speaker 3: and funny phrasings and things like that that seem to

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Speaker 3: not really be inherent to the tale and its whole

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Speaker 3: you know, life among the people, but are part of

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Speaker 3: this storyteller's individual voice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and like, yeah, the cripkeeper is just here

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Speaker 2: to crack jokes about the story. And even you know,

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Speaker 2: you look to think back to like Night Gallery or

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Speaker 2: the Twilight Zone, in which the introduction serves to sort

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Speaker 2: of prepare you for the impact of the story, but

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Speaker 2: it is otherwise not too integrated in it. Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Though this narrator does kind of comment on the story

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Speaker 3: as he's telling it. There are little expressions almost expressions

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Speaker 3: of opinion and statements of observation about life that just

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Speaker 3: sort of bloom out of little corners of the story.

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Speaker 3: So there's like one part in this story where it's

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Speaker 3: after death has been captured.

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Speaker 2: In the sack.

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Speaker 3: We will explain the whole tale as we get into

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Speaker 3: the plot later, but Death has been captured in the sack,

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Speaker 3: and so Death stops working in the world. And he

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Speaker 3: talks about how the news of this happening spreads, you know,

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Speaker 3: to the ends of the town and however many minutes,

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Speaker 3: and then to the ends of the kingdom, and however

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Speaker 3: many more minutes. He says, it spreads as fast as gossip,

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Speaker 3: and nothing spreads faster.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, oh god, the writing is so good

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Speaker 2: in this, So we'll get back. We'll get into more

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Speaker 2: about the writing and more about the nature the Storyteller

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Speaker 2: as we proceed, but yeah, we're going to be focusing

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Speaker 2: on the soldier and Death here. All of the episodes

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Speaker 2: of The Storyteller first season or that four episode Greek

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Speaker 2: Storyteller series, they're all great. I feel like any you

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Speaker 2: could throw a dart at a chart of the episodes

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Speaker 2: and whatever you hit will be the best thing you

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Speaker 2: watched today. But this one is the one we're going

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Speaker 2: to focus on here today. If you have not seen

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Speaker 2: this episode of The Storyteller, and you can watch them

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Speaker 2: really in any order, don't feel like you need to

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Speaker 2: start with the beginning. Lucky for you, you can find

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Speaker 2: it out there. The Storyteller has a long broadcast, home

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Speaker 2: video and digital history. Episodes at one point were released

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Speaker 2: in two's I believe, on VHS. I remember they did

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Speaker 2: the same thing with Tales from the Crypt. I used

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Speaker 2: to have like a few Tales from the Crypt episodes

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Speaker 2: on VHS, and it would be like two episodes sort

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Speaker 2: of cobbled together. So I had the DVD set of

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Speaker 2: The Storyteller at one point, and then later on I

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Speaker 2: purchased them digitally, and in fact, I think I ended

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Speaker 2: up watching this episode three times. For today's episode, one

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Speaker 2: of them I watched via this digital download from years back.

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Speaker 2: The quality was not great, but recently, I believe Shout

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Speaker 2: Factory released remastered digital episodes and this is what I

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Speaker 2: was able to turn to for one of my subsequent rewatches,

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Speaker 2: and I can confirm that the recent remasters look much better.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is there is given the way that

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Speaker 2: that animation is also a part of the storytelling in

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Speaker 2: this show, and like so it's puppetry animation and other

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Speaker 2: kind of like visual effects. Sometimes there is kind of

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Speaker 2: like a gauzy kind of blurry aspect to the film quality,

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Speaker 2: So some of that is not something that is going

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Speaker 2: to be or needs to be you know, remastered or clarified.

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Speaker 2: But the most recent version of this, the kind that

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Speaker 2: you you know you're going to get digitally at most places,

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Speaker 2: it does look pretty great. And I'm also to understand

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Speaker 2: that there is a recently released Blu ray of everything,

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Speaker 2: and I assuming that that has the best and most

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Speaker 2: recently remastered quality as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say some of the cloudiness of it

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Speaker 3: is not due to the transfer. It is an intentional

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Speaker 3: cinematography choice, which is actually a you know, it's a

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Speaker 3: trope used in a lot of filmmaking that signals that

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Speaker 3: something is ancient and mystical by making the focus a

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Speaker 3: little bit softer and creating this cloudy, misty look in

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Speaker 3: the scenes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like Folgi did in Conquest. You know exactly, there

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Speaker 2: you go, missed up the whole thing because the sale

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Speaker 2: is it emerges from the mist All right, Well, shall

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Speaker 2: we get into the folks behind this little episode. Let's

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Speaker 2: do it all right, We're going to start at the

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Speaker 2: top with Jim Henson. Of course, he is the director,

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Speaker 2: he has story credit. He is also credited as one

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Speaker 2: of the Goblin I'm sorry, one of the devil performers

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Speaker 2: I call them goblins because as they are goblin esque

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Speaker 2: or gromlin esque, as we'll discuss.

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Speaker 3: They're goblins with some their goblins reskinned as devils.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so. Henson lived nineteen thirty six through nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety one of, if not the most important puppeteers of

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Speaker 2: the twentieth century. We previously covered Hinson in our episode

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Speaker 2: on his nineteen eighty six film Labyrinth, and most of

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Speaker 2: you know him well. He was the creative master, mastermind

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Speaker 2: behind such long lasting puppet franchises as the Muppets in

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Speaker 2: Sesame Street and the groundbreaking one of a kind nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty two fantasy film The Dark Crystal. And I think

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Speaker 2: mastermind is the right term when talking about Jim Henson,

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Speaker 2: because he was very much an idea man who also

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Speaker 2: brought great creative teams together and just about any Jim

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Speaker 2: Hinson's success story was also the success story of great

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Speaker 2: partnerships and teams, most obviously in the effects form of

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Speaker 2: Jim Henson's Creature Shop, but also in pretty much every

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Speaker 2: other aspect of her production, you know, bringing in great

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Speaker 2: visual design, great writers, musicians, actors, and so forth. Hinston

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Speaker 2: was of course known for a fierce work Ethic. At

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Speaker 2: the time of The Storyteller's production, this would have been

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Speaker 2: like eighty six through eighty seven. Jim would have been

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Speaker 2: around fifty and was still very much in his creative prime,

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Speaker 2: overseeing various TV productions and related projects in the way.

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Speaker 2: To be clear, though, of the financial and critical failure

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Speaker 2: of Labyrinth, which would of course go on to be

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Speaker 2: a huge cult hit and very much a beloved film

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Speaker 2: to many, but he was also working on some features

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Speaker 2: such as nineteen nineties The Witches, which he was executive

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Speaker 2: producer on. There was no way of knowing this, of course,

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Speaker 2: but he had just a few years left. He passed

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Speaker 2: suddenly in nineteen ninety, after the completion of The Storyteller

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Speaker 2: and various other late career projects, but he was daring.

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Speaker 2: This was also during various stages of production on other projects,

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Speaker 2: including nineteen ninety Slash ninety ones, The Storyteller Greek Myths.

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Speaker 2: He was involved in that, and that's those four episodes production,

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Speaker 2: but I don't think he didn't direct any of the episodes,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not sure that he had. I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: what his physical involvement in those episodes were, and they

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Speaker 2: did come out after his death now. The Storyteller came

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Speaker 2: together in part because of a recommendation from Jim's daughter Lisa,

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Speaker 2: who had reportedly taken a class covering folklore, and I

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Speaker 2: believe in particular she'd been reading some Slavic folklore at Harvard,

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Speaker 2: and in fact today's story is based, for the most part,

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Speaker 2: a Slavic story. He kind of brings in elements from

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Speaker 2: a couple of other stories, and those all may be

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Speaker 2: of Slavic origin as well. Has covered in the twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four documentary Jim Hinson idea Man, which I highly recommend.

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Speaker 2: Jim was always working and his children learned fairly early

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Speaker 2: on that the best way to spend time with their

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Speaker 2: father was by collaborating with him in his work. And

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Speaker 2: as we'll discuss, his son Brian played an important role

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Speaker 2: in this series, and I believe his daughter Heather has

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Speaker 2: a cameo in at least one of the episodes. I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure how old she would have been at the time.

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Speaker 2: Though Jim was heavily involved in the Storyteller, but only

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Speaker 2: personally directed two episodes, The Soldier and Death and The

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Speaker 2: Heartless Giant. The episode we already mentioned, the Jim Henson

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Speaker 2: Hour in eighty nine, but these episodes I originally aired

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Speaker 2: on NBC and on UK's Channel four. Again, this series

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Speaker 2: didn't really find an audience at the time it came out.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't a success story in that sense it would

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Speaker 2: become it would build up this following over time. But

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Speaker 2: it was also a critical success at the time. It

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Speaker 2: won a BAFTA as well as a Prime Time Emmy,

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Speaker 2: both for Best Children's Program. So again it's become a

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Speaker 2: cult classic. People keep discovering and rediscovering the Storyteller and

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Speaker 2: the storyteller Greek myths, and there have been talks at

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Speaker 2: time about sort of relaunching it, giving a new V

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Speaker 2: I don't think anything has actually come to fruition yet

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Speaker 2: or reached, you know, an advanced level of production, but

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Speaker 2: who knows. There are always a lot of irons in

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Speaker 2: the fire with Hintson properties these days. After all, it

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Speaker 2: sounds like we're getting a Robert Eggers directed Labyrinth sequel,

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Speaker 2: so which I'm interested interested to see. I'm still having

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Speaker 2: a hard time imagining what exactly that could consist of,

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Speaker 2: but hey, let's do it. Let's see what happens, and

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Speaker 2: if there are going to be more Storyteller episodes at

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Speaker 2: some point, you know, huge boots to Phil, but I'd

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Speaker 2: be interested to see what comes together.

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Speaker 3: Maybe Willem Dafoe as the Storyteller.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Oh yes, yes, I would love to

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Speaker 2: see it all right. The writer on The Storyteller is

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Speaker 2: Anthony Mingela, who lived nineteen fifty four through two thousand

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Speaker 2: and eight. Oscar winning director and screenwriter, best known for

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Speaker 2: such films as nineteen nineties Truly Madly Deeply ninety six

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Speaker 2: is The English Patient, which earned him his best director's

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Speaker 2: Oscar ninety nine's The Talented Mister Ripley in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and threes Cold Mountain. During the production of The Storyteller,

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Speaker 2: all of this was for the most part in the future,

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Speaker 2: as he'd mostly written for TV, radio and the stage,

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Speaker 2: though he had directed the nineteen seventy eight film A

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Speaker 2: Little Like Drowning. Truly Madly Deeply starred Juliette Stevenson and

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Speaker 2: Alan Rickman, and that was kind of his breakout film.

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Speaker 2: I think it was originally produced for BBC Television but

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Speaker 2: ended up becoming a theatrical release, and it was an

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Speaker 2: art house hit, opening the doors to Hollywood. He continued

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Speaker 2: to work on some TV projects, including the four episode

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Speaker 2: Greek Myths Storyteller series, and his final credit was directing

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Speaker 2: an episode of TV's The Number One Ladies Detective Agency. Sadly,

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Speaker 2: much like with Jim Henson, his life and career was

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Speaker 2: cut short by illness, but he achieved quite a lot.

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Speaker 2: I would say that, Yeah, the writing on this series

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Speaker 2: is absolutely exceptional and definitely a huge part of its

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Speaker 2: success is something like almost hypnotic about its its rhythmic cadence,

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Speaker 2: the cyclical plotting, and the and again, the unaltered depth

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Speaker 2: of folklore and then and then mythology and the Greek myths,

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Speaker 2: the prose, the storyteller himself. It's it's casting a spell

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Speaker 2: over us with words. Even in these scenes where there

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Speaker 2: are no puppets. Uh, you know, there are no effects

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Speaker 2: other than just having the storyteller on the screen speaking

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Speaker 2: directly to us using these words, using his voice, and again,

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Speaker 2: the whole the whole show makes excellent use of symbolic

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Speaker 2: characters and uh, and and its effects to tell everything

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Speaker 2: in a very short run time. They really pack a

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Speaker 2: lot in.

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Speaker 3: I would say, in this episode, Uh, the script is

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Speaker 3: especially strong in its management of tone, the way that

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Speaker 3: it walks a line between, you know, deals with a

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Speaker 3: lot of dark and morbid subject matter and gives it

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Speaker 3: gives that subject matter it's due, while also retaining a

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Speaker 3: kind of lightness and sense of humor about everything as

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Speaker 3: it goes along. Very strong control of tone in that

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Speaker 3: way makes everything feel like you're just rushing along with it,

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Speaker 3: you know, rushing along like the current in a brook.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there, absolutely, absolutely is this this feeling of

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Speaker 2: rushing through. You're being pulled by the storyteller, by the

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Speaker 2: episode towards some sort of conclusion.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and sorry if I skipped over a connective that

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Speaker 3: I think that feeling of rushing through is not just

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Speaker 3: due to like the pacing which you were flagging, but

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Speaker 3: also to the ability of the story to maintain a

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Speaker 3: lightness of tone even when it's dealing with all of

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Speaker 3: the dark things in the story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, All right, let's get into we're getting into

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Speaker 2: the characters here. Before we get into the characters of

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Speaker 2: the episode specific well, we're going to talk about the

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Speaker 2: storyteller and his dog. The storyteller is again played by

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Speaker 2: John Hurt, who lived nineteen forty through twenty seventeen. Legendary

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Speaker 2: British actor Best remembered for his various generally supporting roles

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Speaker 2: in such films as Ridley Scott's Alien and seventeen nine,

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Speaker 2: he of course played Kine, the human from which the

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Speaker 2: xenomorph E merges. Yeah, worst dinner Ever. Yeah, Let's see

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Speaker 2: Midnight Express from the same year that earned him an

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Speaker 2: Oscar nomination, and then, of course he was also nominated

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Speaker 2: for an Oscar for his lead performance in nineteen eighties

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Speaker 2: The Elephant Man. Hurt enjoyed a long career that featured

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Speaker 2: six decades of cinema. His TV where It Goes Back

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Speaker 2: to sixty two and his first film role was the

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Speaker 2: same year in The Wild and the Willing. In nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty six, he had a supporting role in A Man

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Speaker 2: for All Seasons. In sixty nine, he starred in John

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Speaker 2: Houston's Sinful Davy. In seventy five, he co starred with

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Speaker 2: Peter Cushing and set Let's See What was this? The Ghoul? Yes,

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Speaker 2: and then Let's See. In seventy six he was in

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Speaker 2: I Claudius, the TV series he played Caligula in that, Oh,

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Speaker 2: Let's see. Seventy eight was a banner year for him,

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Speaker 2: in which he voiced both Hazel Rabbit and Aragorn in

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Speaker 2: the animated adaptations of Watership Down and The Lord of

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Speaker 2: the Rings.

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Speaker 3: Love John Hurt don't know if I associate his voice

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Speaker 3: with the presence of Aragorn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, he's probably, for my money, one

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Speaker 2: of the more notable vocal performances in that adaptation. But

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Speaker 2: you know, that's an imperfect film with great things in it,

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Speaker 2: for sure. Let's see. He also appeared the same year

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Speaker 2: in a horror film titled The Shout. I have not

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Speaker 2: seen it, but it's one that's kind of I believe.

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Speaker 2: I have it on my weird house list of things

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Speaker 2: I need to check out and see if they fit.

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Speaker 2: Let's say, in seventy nine, we of course got Alien,

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Speaker 2: followed by The Elephant Man in nineteen eighty. Subsequent credits

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Speaker 2: leading up to The Storyteller include nineteen eighty four and

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Speaker 2: space Balls, which of course he plays. I think he's

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Speaker 2: credited as playing himself. And this is where we get

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Speaker 2: the scene where a xenomorph like creature pops out of

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Speaker 2: his chest and then does a like a like a

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Speaker 2: frog dance with a with a hat and a cane

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Speaker 2: across the table sings New York, New York or something, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: something like that. What's the gag after that? Is it?

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Speaker 3: I'll have what he's having? Or oh I don't rememberybe

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Speaker 3: it's check please.

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen Spaceball since I was a kid. I

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Speaker 2: probably need to rewatch it.

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Speaker 3: Same, but I watched it about a hundred times as

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Speaker 3: a kid. That was one we rented from the video store,

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Speaker 3: and I think as soon as it was over, I

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Speaker 3: just rewound the tape and watched it again.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, having to stop to rewind. I guess that

395
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Speaker 2: builds in a bathroom break at least. Yeah, let's see,

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Speaker 2: you know. Obviously, he did not return to play the

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Speaker 2: storyteller in Greek myths, and there are a number of

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Speaker 2: I think for a number of reasons that that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: It's a different We're going from folklore to mythology, and

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Speaker 2: it's a different, different sort of storyteller. And I like

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Speaker 2: gamb On in the Greek myths, but it's a different

402
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Speaker 2: sort of storyteller. He continued to act, appearing in such

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Speaker 2: films as Roger Corman's last directorial Crew at Frankenstein Unbound

404
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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety opposite Rob Julia. Let's See He's a

405
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Speaker 2: He was in ninety five's Robber Roy, ninety five's Dead Man,

406
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Speaker 2: ninety seven's Contact, two thousand and one's Harry Potter and

407
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Speaker 2: the Sorcerer's Stone two thousand and four's hell Boy, two

408
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Speaker 2: thousand and five's V for Vendetta hell Boy two. In

409
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Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, he's in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull,

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Speaker 2: twenty eleven's Melancholia, twenty thirteen snow Piercer, as well as

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Speaker 2: Only Lovers Left a Lie. And he also played the

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Speaker 2: war doctor in TV's Doctor who just you know, worked

413
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Speaker 2: a lot, was in so many things of note, and always,

414
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Speaker 2: you know, often in the supporting role. Added this this

415
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Speaker 2: extra little bit of wisdom, at times menace, other times

416
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Speaker 2: dark mystery. You know, anytime you got a John Hurt performance,

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Speaker 2: it added some interesting spice to the overall soup. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I always love John Hurt. I feel like I especially

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Speaker 3: like him as a villain.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he does make a good villain. Absolutely. Now

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Speaker 2: I want to mention this is probably good time to

422
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Speaker 2: mention it as any as we're talking about the storyteller.

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Speaker 2: I picked a book of mine off the shelf that

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Speaker 2: I've referred to in the past. This is the Wide

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Speaker 2: Worlds of Jim Henson. I'll hold it up here for

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Speaker 2: the video folks out there watching on Netflix. There's a

427
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 2: collection of papers about different things, different projects and different

428
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 2: shows and whatnot that Jim Henson was involved in. And

429
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: the particular paper I was looking at is there is

430
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: no one story by Nathaniel Long. And the author here

431
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 2: makes some compelling points about hurt storyteller character, including the

432
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 2: focus on not mere narra narration, but this kind of

433
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: pure storytelling we've been talking about. He points out that

434
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 2: the audience interaction is really key. So the storyteller is

435
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 2: he is a direct character in one episode of the Storyteller,

436
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 2: like he has to tell stories to save his life

437
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 2: to a king, that sort of thing. And then there's

438
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: I believe another episode where he kind of wanders through

439
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 2: the action the series. But beyond that, you know, he

440
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: often throws in flourishes of direct connection to the tale

441
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 2: in his telling, such as sharing that the protagonist is

442
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: actually a friend of his, or letting you know that

443
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 2: he attended it another character's wedding and so forth. So

444
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 2: so he has like personal knowledge or attests to personal

445
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 2: knowledge of the individuals involved in the stories. Sometimes he

446
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 2: also seems to possess key items from the story that

447
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: he will show off. And you can view that in

448
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: two ways. Either this is physical evidence of the reality

449
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: of the story like he is he does actually know

450
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 2: all these people, or you can think of it in

451
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: the storytelling sense of like imagining a storyteller you know,

452
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 2: has come to town. He's going to tell you stories,

453
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 2: and maybe, like you know, a shiny rock factors into it.

454
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 2: And oh, he has that shiny rock and he's going

455
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 2: to pass it around and let you hold it and

456
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 2: feel it, and so this is going to bring you

457
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 2: an intimate connection with the story that he is relating.

458
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 3: I feel like there's less of this element in the

459
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 3: particular episode we're talking about today, though he does begin

460
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 3: the episode with a sack of biscuits, which are relevant

461
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 3: to the plot.

462
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, There's some other little bits, like he mentions

463
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: the regiment that the soldier was a part of, and

464
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 2: lo and behold, he has a part of that. He

465
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: has like the insignia of that regiment stitched into his cloak. Yeah,

466
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 2: that's a nice little touch. And the author here, Nathaniel Long,

467
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 2: He even goes so far as to roll out of

468
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: fan theory that the storyteller is the soldier, and that's

469
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 2: how he is in possession of it. I don't know

470
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 2: that I ascribed to this myself, but it's an interesting idea,

471
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: and the ambiguity of the storyteller kind of, you know,

472
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 2: it allows you to entertain those concepts.

473
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the storyteller does work as a kind of

474
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 3: ancient wanderer, and that is what we get at the

475
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 3: end of this story as well, So yeah, that's interesting.

476
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: Long also points out that in the first produced episode

477
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 2: of The Storyteller, Hurts Carearacter had more makeup effects, so

478
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: I think they quickly realized that we can scale back

479
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 2: on this little bad way and a little bit less

480
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 2: is more. They also seem to lean more heavily on

481
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: his character physically integrating with the story setting in the

482
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: first episode that was produced, and it's interesting that they

483
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 2: would step back from this and potentially decide to depend

484
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: then more on these scenes where he's telling the story

485
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: from his own home beside his hearth with his dog,

486
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: and realizing that in a way, it's like realizing the

487
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: true power of the storyteller that you don't need to

488
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 2: actually have him integrating with special effects beyond the basic

489
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 2: special effects that are involved in his presentation, but you

490
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: don't actually need to have him physically present in the story.

491
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 2: He's more effective just telling tales beside his hearth. Yeah,

492
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: I think that's right.

493
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 3: And by having him in a separate place and time

494
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 3: in the chair by his hearth, it allows you to

495
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 3: dip in and out of the setting of the story

496
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 3: in a way that actually aids in the pace of

497
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 3: the storytelling because you can kind of without calling too

498
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 3: much attention to it, You can cut away and cut back.

499
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 3: So when you cut away to the storyteller, this aids

500
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 3: in transitions, and those transitions are often made even easier

501
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: by the fact that the narrator can kind of talk

502
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 3: through them in this very voiced way, so he doesn't

503
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 3: just have to say many years later. He can have

504
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: a little monologue here, which eases the transition.

505
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all right, that was the storyteller, and then

506
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: moving on to the storyteller's dog. This character is voiced

507
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: by Brian Hinson, Jim Hinson's son. Generally, the dog here

508
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 2: is here too to ask direct questions about the story

509
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: being told and also give direct interpretations of the story,

510
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: like there's another episode where you know there's a witch

511
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: in it, and the storyteller's dog is like, I hate

512
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: that witch, like, you know, she's so awful, you know,

513
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 2: like he's kind of we the audience cannot directly react

514
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: to the storyteller, but the dog can, and the dog

515
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: is kind of doing the talk back that we would

516
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 2: be having.

517
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 3: Internally interesting choice that they make this dog a talking dog,

518
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: And I think that makes sense because they need some

519
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 3: talk back in the narrative and there's no human audience,

520
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 3: so the dog is the audience in the in the storytelling.

521
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 3: Like you, I think they would have realized at some

522
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 3: point in the writing that it doesn't quite feel right

523
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 3: for the storyteller just to be telling to the camera

524
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 3: if there's no mind there to react to the story.

525
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: He needs an audience, but you know, it's just him

526
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 3: and his dog, so the dog has to be the audience.

527
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: Apparently it was Anthony Mangla who figured this out too,

528
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: Like he knew that there was going to be a

529
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: storyteller and a puppet dog, and then he set to

530
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: the task of writing these and then brought at least

531
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 2: some level of completed scripts back to Jim Henson, and

532
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: Jim was like, oh, the dog talks, whereas the screenwriter

533
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: had just assumed the dog was going to talk because

534
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: the dog is a puppet, is a muppet in a

535
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: Jim Henson production, like, surely the dog talks. And Jim

536
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, that's a nice surprise. Yeah, let's do that.

537
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 2: There you go. All right, let's get into the cast

538
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 2: of The Soldier and Death Itself. This actual episode, The

539
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: Soldier is played by Bob Peck, who lived nineteen forty

540
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 2: five through nineteen ninety nine, British actor who won a

541
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: BASTA for the nineteen eighty six limited series Edge of Darkness,

542
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: but is best known to audiences for his role as

543
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: the big game hunter Muldoon in nineteen ninety three's Jurassic Park.

544
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 3: I will always associate him with that role.

545
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: Yes, clever girl. He was a Royal Shakespeare Company actor,

546
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: extensive stage credits as well as TV credits going back

547
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: to seventy two. He played McDuff opposite opposite Ian McKellen

548
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: and Judy Dinch in seventy nine's Macbeth. Other credits include

549
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: eighty nine extream, nineties Lord of the Flies, and ninety

550
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: seven's fairy Tale A True Story that I've seen That

551
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: one before I believe Harvey Kaiitel plays Houdini in That

552
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: Been a Long Time though, But yeah, solid actor, solid

553
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: performance here. Peck also sadly passed away in his early

554
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: fifties due to illness.

555
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 3: I had to look up who he was in Lord

556
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: of the Flies because I was like, wait a minute,

557
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 3: are there any adults in Lord.

558
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 2: Of the Flies?

559
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 3: I thought it was all kids, but then I remembered

560
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: when I looked it up. The very ending of the movie,

561
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 3: of course, is that adults arrive on the island, like

562
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 3: a soldier shows up, and this instantly kind of snaps

563
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 3: the kids out of their war trance and they revert

564
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 3: to childhood. But there's also some irony with that character

565
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 3: because he's the soldier who appears on the island while

566
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 3: the you know, the group of boys is trying to

567
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 3: massacre the other group. And then he's like, what are

568
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 3: you kids doing? You know, I can't believe this this fighting,

569
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 3: and then he like looks back at his warship.

570
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, great actor, Andy, He's really good here. We'll

571
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: get into some of the nuances of his performance as

572
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: we roll through the plot. Let's see, this film has

573
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: I think three beggars in it that are important, two

574
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: of which are portrayed on screen. The other is kind

575
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: of an illustration or animation. But we have the Fiddling

576
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 2: Beggar played by Stuart Richmond born nineteen forty, British character

577
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: actor whose credits include eighty one's Reds, ninety two's Chaplain

578
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: and various British TV dramas. And then we have the

579
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: card trick Beggar played by Walter Sparrow. He lived nineteen

580
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: twenty seven through the year two thousand, English stand up

581
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: comic of some sort turned stage and film actor. His

582
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 2: credits include sixty five's Doctor Terror's House of Horrors, sixty nine,

583
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: Ze to one, eighty five's Young Sherlock Holmes, ninety ones,

584
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves ninety three is the Secret

585
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: Garden in ninety eight's Ever After, Joe included a photograph

586
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: here if you look him up on letterboxed his I

587
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: don't know, maybe this is user submitted, or maybe it

588
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: just spill from another database, but there is a photograph

589
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 2: of a young Walter Sparrow, and he is just like

590
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 2: this young, dashing, handsome gentleman, and most of it is

591
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 2: certainly in this film. He's a much older individual, very

592
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: haggard looking and intentionally so, but with a kind of

593
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: youthful spirit and enthusiasm.

594
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 3: He's got two callers here, Oh yeah, there are two callers.

595
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was in the style of those days Onion

596
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: on the belt as well. All right, other supporting characters,

597
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: we have a tzar in this and the tzar is

598
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: played by John Franklin Robbins, who lived nineteen twenty four

599
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: through two thousand and nine, British character actor who has

600
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: an uncredited role as a minister in Dracula eighty nineteen

601
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 2: seventy two, which we've previously discussed on the show, and

602
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: his other credits include ninety six is Emma and two

603
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: thousand and sevens The Golden Compass. Let's see. The Tsar's

604
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 2: wife is also a minor character, played by is he

605
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: A Benson or Benison born eighteen forty nine, British actress

606
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 2: who worked mostly on TV, but she also appeared in

607
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty Mummy movie The Awakening, starring Chuck Heston

608
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 2: and featuring Ian mcdarmond, and that one was directed by

609
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 2: Mike Newall. And then she's also in nineteen eighty five's

610
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 2: King David. This is the movie that featured both Richard

611
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: Gear and I'm sadly to say the recently deceased George Eastman.

612
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: I just read last night that the great George Eastman

613
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: has left this mortal coil. So rest in peace, George Eastman.

614
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 2: Let's see other characters in this episode. We have Jan

615
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 2: Chappele playing the soldier's wife. Born nineteen forty five, British actress,

616
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: best known for playing Calli in the first three series

617
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: of the sci fi show Blake's Seven. She also pops

618
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 2: up in two thousand and six's Basic Instinct two, a

619
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: film that I had forgotten existed. But yes, they did

620
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,760
Speaker 2: do an official sequel to Basic Instinct.

621
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 3: I grouped that mentally with American Psycho two. Never seen

622
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 3: either one, but something seems similar.

623
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: I know I had that connection too. But when you

624
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: look at it, like Basic Instinct too, has Sharon Stone

625
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: in it, reprising her character. It's got a pretty good cast.

626
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 2: I have no idea if it's even remotely good, but

627
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: there seem to have been some money behind it.

628
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 3: I'm not a big fan of the original Basic Instinct,

629
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,959
Speaker 3: though I do love Paul Verhoven, but it I don't

630
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,479
Speaker 3: think it's a great movie, but it is a great

631
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 3: cultural artifact. It's great to just like go back and

632
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 3: watch it and try to understand the time in which

633
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 3: was a good point.

634
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely culturally important. All right, moving behind the scenes,

635
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 2: I'm gonna mention that Rachel Portman was a composer of

636
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 2: the Storyteller series that includes you know music in the

637
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 2: episodes and the theme song. She was born nineteen sixty three.

638
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: Time Oscar named a nominated composer for nineteen ninety seven's Emma.

639
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 2: She won the award for Emma. Also, she was nominated

640
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: for two thousands cider House Rules in two thousand and

641
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: one's Chuck O'lock. She's still active today in her work

642
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 2: in film and TV goes back to nineteen eighty two.

643
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: Other scores include The Joy Luck Club in ninety three,

644
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 2: Beloved in ninety eight, and more recently The Return in

645
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. All Right, and then finally, I'll just

646
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 2: mention again. Obviously, Jim Henson's creature shop is responsible for

647
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 2: all the various effects that we see here. The puppetry

648
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 2: is exceptional, and it is the work of a highly

649
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: talented and innovative crew. We can't mention them all in

650
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: this episode. Look them up on IMDb or whatever database

651
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 2: you choose to use. I will note though, for this

652
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: series and for this particular episode, the Jim Henson Creature

653
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 2: Shop credits include future Blade director Stephen Norrington, so he

654
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: was a part of this one.

655
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 3: Well, are you ready to break down the plot? Let's

656
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 3: do it, okay? So I guess we'll start with some

657
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 3: notes on the general like the opening credits and framing

658
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: of the storyteller before we get into the tail. So

659
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,919
Speaker 3: it starts with a castle on a craggy mountain. It's

660
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 3: surrounded by swamps and mist very much. Actually reminded me

661
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 3: of the Castle of the Skexies in the Dark Crystal,

662
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 3: you know, rising up out of the landscape, these desolate

663
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 3: places below dark mists. And I believe that in this

664
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 3: opening shot you can correct me if anything I say

665
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 3: here is wrong, Rob, I think the castle is a

666
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 3: live photography model, but the foreground has animation in it.

667
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 3: So there's like an animated raven that flies up to

668
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 3: the castle walls and then darts inside through a hole

669
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 3: in the stones. Did you interpret it the same way?

670
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I believe so.

671
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 3: So the opening narration says when people told themselves their

672
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 3: past with stories. They explained their stories, foretold the future

673
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 3: with stories. The best place by the fire was kept

674
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 3: for the storyteller.

675
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 2: Such an evocative opening that really captures so much about

676
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 2: what the show is going to be, what storytelling is,

677
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: and how important it is to humanity, because of course

678
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 2: the fire is not just the thing that keeps us warm, right.

679
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I do like that it's establishing at the

680
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 3: very beginning who gets the good chair? Yes, yeah. And

681
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 3: the credits, they have a little montage of clips from

682
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 3: other episodes of the season, so we get some kind

683
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 3: of little goblin without legs hobbling on a dungeon floor,

684
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: and some very muppet faced creatures peering over a wall,

685
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 3: red devils and ghoules with beaks, and then of course

686
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 3: this super cute scruffy dog.

687
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 2: One note about the opening credits here, and this is

688
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 2: something that after all these years, I don't think I'd

689
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 2: really focused in on until like today, but note that

690
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 2: the opening credits are literally coming out of the storyteller's mouth,

691
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: like we see his teeth and then we like pan

692
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 2: out and like we're the like the camera point of

693
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: view is coming out of the storyteller's mouth, that, of course,

694
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 2: is where the story is coming from as well.

695
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the storyteller and his dog are part of

696
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 3: the framing narrative of every episode, and Rob, is it

697
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 3: always the case that the episode starts with the storyteller

698
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 3: and the dog acting out a little skit that introduces

699
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 3: one of the themes or images from.

700
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: The folk tale. Yeah, absolutely, with appearances throughout, the exception

701
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 2: being the main exception being the episode a story short,

702
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: that one is about the storyteller and features him and

703
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 2: the dogs characters.

704
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 3: And once again, of course the dog can talk right.

705
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

706
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 3: But so in the episode when the credits end here

707
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: we open on John Hurt sitting in a high backed chair,

708
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 3: the good chair, next to the fire, so there's a

709
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: roaring fire, and the dog is digging around at something

710
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 3: on the floor. The storyteller is dressed in a way

711
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 3: that is at once ragged and venerable. So his clothes

712
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 3: are this old quilt like patchwork of different colors and patterns,

713
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 3: looking very dusty and frayed, like he's been wearing this

714
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 3: outfit for decades. His hair is gray and messy, and

715
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 3: he's wearing large prosthetic ears and has these big knob

716
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 3: like dimples on his cheeks. So frumpy, but not in

717
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 3: a way that decreases his esteem, frumpy in a way

718
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 3: that enhances wizard like qualities. Yeah, the dog also has

719
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 3: Oh one more question. Are we supposed to understand the

720
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 3: storyteller as some kind of elf like being because of

721
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 3: these prosthetic ears and the bumps on his cheeks, or

722
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 3: is he just a kind of sort of caricature of

723
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 3: an old man.

724
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 2: That is a great question. I feel like at times

725
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: I've had interpret him as being kind of like an elf,

726
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 2: And maybe he is kind of like an elf, a

727
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: lowercase elf, but then it is also, at the same

728
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 2: time kind of like an exaggeration of the features of

729
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: an old man. So yeah, it's ambiguous. He could go

730
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 2: either way. Is he someone from another world, from the

731
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 2: unseen world? Or is he just someone from our world

732
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 2: who has knowledge of the unseen and tells stories about

733
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: it who knows?

734
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, he has great wisdom and there is an odor

735
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 3: of pipe leaf about him. Yes, And so the dog

736
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 3: also has this charming scruffiness that very much matches the

737
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 3: scruffy energy of the old man, and in the opening scene,

738
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 3: after sniffing and digging around for a bit. The dog

739
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 3: pipes up and asks what is inside this sack at

740
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 3: the storyteller's feet. He says it smells like biscuits. The

741
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 3: storyteller yanks the sack away from the dog's grip and

742
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: denies him access to the biscuits. He says that these

743
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 3: biscuits are needed in order to tell their story. Now,

744
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 3: one thing I was wondering is, because you've seen all

745
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 3: of the episodes of this, is the storyteller ever telling

746
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 3: the story to anyone other than the dog? Or is

747
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 3: the dog always the audience.

748
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 2: Outside of that episode in which he is the storyteller

749
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 2: is also a character. Yeah, he's always telling these stories

750
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 2: to the dog and then of course looking out at us.

751
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: To the viewer, he's telling us as well, but in

752
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 2: a less direct fashion.

753
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 3: So the storyteller introduces a tale. This is an ancient

754
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 3: tale that begins quote one thousand miles from anywhere, after

755
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 3: twenty years of war, with a soldier, an honest soul,

756
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 3: with nothing but a shilling in his pocket and three

757
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 3: dry biscuits for the long trudge home. So we joined

758
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 3: the soldier. This is again played by Bob Peck and

759
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 3: he is in the middle of this long journey, wandering

760
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 3: along the country road, whistling as he goes with what

761
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 3: the storyteller calls a tuneless whistle, so they establish at

762
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 3: the beginning he is not a good whistler, but he

763
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 3: whistles anyway. And then a note on the landscape. The

764
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 3: characters in these scenes on the road are live actors,

765
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 3: but the setting they inhabit is usually not a real

766
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 3: physical setting. It in one case is like an animated

767
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 3: cell that they're walking on. In other cases it's a

768
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 3: painted backdrop set, and it shows these rolling hills and

769
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 3: farmland with wooden fences and mountains in the distance. So

770
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 3: the soldier Bob Peck marches along with good cheer. He's

771
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 3: a cheerful guy. And I want to comment on that

772
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 3: more as we go, because it's an important part of

773
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 3: the story. I think he's got good cheer, and he's

774
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 3: whistling all the while while he's walking, and he eventually

775
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 3: comes across an old beggar playing the fiddle by the roadside.

776
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 3: The soldier stops when he comes to the beggar, and

777
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 3: then he joins in with him. So he lifts up

778
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 3: his cross to his neck, points the bolt at his neck,

779
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,959
Speaker 3: he tucks it under his chin and pretends to play

780
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 3: it like a violin while whistling along with the beggar's tune,

781
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 3: and the narrator says, the one couldn't fiddle, the other

782
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: couldn't whistle, and quite happy they both were. And I

783
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 3: want to stand with that. That is a sentiment. I

784
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 3: very much endorse the celebration of enjoying playing music music together,

785
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 3: even if you're not very good at it.

786
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, our soldier here is a man of the moment,

787
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 2: and right now there is song. There is music, and

788
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: it's not about what you're being, what you're producing, it's

789
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 2: about the experience of producing it. Likewise, he does he

790
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 2: m like the kind of guy who, yeah, right now,

791
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: he has three biscuits in his pocket. What more could

792
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 2: he need right now? So he's content.

793
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. So when the song is done, the beggar asks

794
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 3: for a farthing. The soldier says, all he has to

795
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 3: offer him is a dry biscuit. So the soldier gives

796
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 3: the old man one of his three biscuits, and the

797
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 3: beggar is very grateful. He says, you're a good man

798
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 3: who deserves a better whistle. So the soldier goes on

799
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 3: his way, but to his surprise, when he starts whistling

800
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 3: again on the road, he notices that it is no

801
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 3: longer the tuneless whistle that he once had. Now it

802
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 3: is a beautiful instrument within him. The storyteller says, imagine

803
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 3: what Rubies would sound like if they whistled, so whistling

804
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 3: skill massively upgraded.

805
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: You know, I was reading part of an interview with

806
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 2: Rachel Portman about the music for this episode, and she

807
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: points out that they had, you know, there's this line

808
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 2: in the script, a whistle that sounds like Rubies. She said,

809
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: you know, this is great, but I'm the one who

810
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: had to then realize this, and they apparently had put

811
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,439
Speaker 2: a lot of work into trying to They're trying different

812
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 2: whistlers out. People on the set, even Jim Hintson himself

813
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 2: were like, well, let me give it a go. And

814
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 2: she said, like everybody thinks they're a great whistle whistler,

815
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 2: or you know, or they don't care, but no, very

816
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 2: few people have a whistle that is like Rubies. They

817
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 2: ended up bringing in a professional singer and then like

818
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 2: speeding up his whistle a bit, like modulating it in

819
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 2: such a way as to create this beautiful whistle that

820
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 2: we hear in the episode.

821
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 3: So they initially had him sing or whistle this tune

822
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 3: like an octave down and at half speed, and then

823
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 3: they sped it up and play back.

824
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's a delightful little tune. If listeners

825
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: out there, if you can identify this song that is

826
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 2: being whistled by the soldier once he gets the good

827
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: whistle right in and let us know, because we were

828
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: chatting about this, something sounds very familiar about it, but

829
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: I can't place it. So if you know what it is,

830
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 2: right in and let's talk about it.

831
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 3: So later in the story, the soldier comes along a

832
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 3: second beggar playing music beside the footpath, this time playing

833
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 3: a drum, and the soldier joins in once again, this

834
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 3: time dancing to the drum beat, and he gives the

835
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 3: old man the second of his three biscuits. And after this,

836
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 3: the soldier finds that now he's got a new talent.

837
00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: He has an unusual talent for dancing. Then the soldier

838
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 3: comes across a third man on the road. The old

839
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 3: man is doing tricks with a deck of cards. The

840
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 3: soldier is very impressed and gives the man applause once again.

841
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 3: The man asks for a farthing, which the soldier does

842
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 3: not have to give. All he has is the one

843
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 3: dry biscuit left in his bag, So at first he

844
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 3: breaks the biscuit in half, offering to share it with

845
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 3: the old man. But before he gives the old man

846
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 3: his half, he feels guilty because each of the other

847
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 3: two men on the road got a whole biscuit. Doesn't

848
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 3: feel quite right to give this man any less, so

849
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 3: he gives him the whole biscuit, and to repay the

850
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 3: soldier's kindness, the old man gives him not one, but

851
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 3: two magical items. One is his deck of cards, a

852
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 3: deck of cards that can never lose, and the second

853
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 3: is a ratty old sack that looks mundane but is

854
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 3: in fact most marvelous. He says, quote, order a bird in,

855
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 3: or a beast, or anything you like, and it will

856
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 3: be there in a twinkle. So it's a magic get in,

857
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 3: get out sack. If you tell something to get in,

858
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 3: it cannot resist. It will be sucked inside the sack.

859
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 3: And then when you order something to get out out,

860
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 3: it comes.

861
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 2: I guess there's not even a wisdom saving throw here.

862
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 2: It just absolutely works. This is an overly powered magical item.

863
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 3: Yeah guaranteed hit. Yeah yeah. So the soldier tries this

864
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 3: out on a flock of geese. He pipes up and

865
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 3: he orders them to get in the sack, and they

866
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 3: just all waddle in. So, now that he has this

867
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 3: goose payload, he heads to a nearby inn and he

868
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 3: buys himself supper and lodgings by giving the innkeep the

869
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 3: extra geese. The narrator says, and the landlord roasted him

870
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,399
Speaker 3: the goose in clove and honey and brought it back

871
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 3: with a bottle of the best wine. And the soldier

872
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 3: ate it all and sucked the bones and drank the

873
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 3: wine and danced until morning.

874
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: So I like that.

875
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 3: The soldier here is characterized as a happy, go lucky figure.

876
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 3: He is cheerful, glad of his good fortune, and doesn't

877
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 3: really seem at all surprised by his good fortune. There's

878
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 3: not much commentary on him being like, wow, you know,

879
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 3: I can't believe this is happening to me. He's grateful,

880
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 3: he's kind to people, he's generous, he's friendly, and he

881
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 3: just accepts all of this good fortune just like let it,

882
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 3: you know, let the good times roll.

883
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, like presumably having you know, just left the war.

884
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 2: He's just happy to be alive and in whatever kind

885
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 2: of joy he can find in the moment, he's happy

886
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 2: to embrace it.

887
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I like the way Bob Peck plays this

888
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,959
Speaker 3: all with this charmed confidence. Yeah. So he has such

889
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 3: a good night with the goose and the wine that

890
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 3: he ends up sleeping for three days. And when he

891
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 3: wakes up on the third day, he looks out the

892
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 3: window of the inn and sees a dark, empty looking

893
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 3: palace on the hillside over the town. The palace appears

894
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 3: to be in ruins, with windows smashed and broken gates,

895
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 3: and the soldier asks the end keep about the palace.

896
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 3: In keep tells him that it is the Czar's old palace,

897
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 3: once a place of great parties and opulence, but quote

898
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 3: now the devils have it for their card games. Every night.

899
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 3: They tumble in and scream and shout and play at cards.

900
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 3: No decent folk go near, they're so devilish. But the

901
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 3: soldier doesn't seem very frightened. He notices that, hey, it's

902
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 3: a nice place. Somebody should go roused out the devils

903
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 3: so it can be fixed up again. Apparently an army

904
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 3: once tried to do this, but they were vanquished by

905
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 3: the devils in the morning. It says, there was nothing

906
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 3: left but shadows. So with a smirk, the soldier says,

907
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 3: think I'll take a closer look. So he heads up

908
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 3: to the palace with all of his magical items packed along,

909
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 3: and then inside the palace set. I like the contrast.

910
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 3: So is there are signs of neglect. Everything is covered

911
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 3: in dust and the air is hazy, and there are

912
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 3: remains of more recent hard partying food and wine bottles

913
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: scattered around. This looks like, you know, maybe from the

914
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 3: night before, from these devil parties. So the devils eat

915
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 3: and drink, I guess, while they play cards. But then

916
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 3: also there are the remains of someone's barbarity. There are

917
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 3: these old iron gibbets with skeletons inside, dangling from the ceiling.

918
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 3: I don't know if these are the tsars old gibbets

919
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 3: for his prisoners or if they belong to the devils.

920
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point. Did this Is this a

921
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 2: remnant of something that happened years ago? Or was this

922
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: last night? Was this the last person who came up

923
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 2: to check in on the devils?

924
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 3: Well, they are skeletons without flesh on them, so I

925
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 3: don't know.

926
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 2: I think Flash might know a few ways to get

927
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 2: flesh off of a skeleton.

928
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 3: That's a good point they do. I think they like

929
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 3: to gnaw on some flesh in fact. So the soldier

930
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 3: smacks the dust off of a chair and takes a

931
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,800
Speaker 3: seat at this hexagonal game table in the middle of

932
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 3: the hall. He sits and waits until dark, whistling the

933
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 3: whole time, and then finally night falls, and with this

934
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 3: crisp fluttering of wings, the devils appear. So let's talk

935
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 3: about these devils. They are puppets, of course, very Jim

936
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 3: Hensony puppets, in terms of how they look, how they're performed,

937
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 3: and the vocalizations the voicings. They are shiny and red,

938
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 3: like boiled lobsters, kind of the size and proportion roughly

939
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 3: of Joe Dante Grimlins, with also in a grimlin styling,

940
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,919
Speaker 3: some like mohawk or three stripe hair patterns at least

941
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 3: for some of them, big dragon wings with clawed hands.

942
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 3: And in terms of their speaking voices, the devils adhere

943
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 3: to the orc and pirate rule of dialect.

944
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 2: A lot of.

945
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 3: Rude sounding English accents, anything important I missed here.

946
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: Oh, let's see. I guess I think they're puppets. I

947
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 2: might point that out. I think these are rod puppets.

948
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 2: Could be wrong either way. Exceptionally well built and well executed,

949
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 2: well voiced as well, definite Gromlin vibes like you said,

950
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 2: but in the best way possible. Uh. Yeah, they're nasty

951
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 2: little buggers, but also a little bit cute. And then

952
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 2: this cuteness is also offset by their they're almost kind

953
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: of punk. Look, you know, they have the spiky hair

954
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 2: like you said, but also milk multiple piercings, so it

955
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 2: creates this this weird vibe. Yeah, like they're they're nasty

956
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 2: but a little bit alluring as well, and they're gleaning

957
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 2: red like they almost look sweaty. And yeah, this whole

958
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 2: sequence with them is wonderful, And I love how they

959
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 2: kind of boil up out of the darkness around the

960
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: soldier and his table of cards.

961
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 3: They appear quite suddenly when he lights a match in

962
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 3: the dark, which and it reminds me of the first

963
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 3: time we see the the group of goblin faces appearing

964
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 3: very unexpectedly in Labyrinth.

965
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 2: Yes, when she's reading the book.

966
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 3: Anyway, So they show up and they're they're gathered around

967
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 3: the soldier in his table of cards, and one of

968
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 3: the devils says that he likes the sound of the

969
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 3: soldier's whistle. I think he says, I'll have it, like

970
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 3: he wants that whistle for himself. I'll be having that.

971
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 3: And the soldier proposes, well, if you want it, let's

972
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 3: gamble for it. So the devils say that if the

973
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 3: soldier wins, he's going to get forty barrels of gold.

974
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 3: A barrel of gold is an odd measure of gold,

975
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 3: but okay. They drag the barrels into the room and

976
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 3: he sees they've got him. That's the collateral there, and

977
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 3: if the devils win, they're going to get the soldier's soul,

978
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 3: his whistle, and his teeth. One of the devils says,

979
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 3: I collect teeth. I like teeth, so maybe kind of

980
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 3: soul and whistle for all of the others, and teeth

981
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 3: for Johnny over here. But these devil gromlins that, yeah,

982
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 3: they bring in the forty barrels of gold and the

983
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 3: game begins. Now you get the idea that normally the

984
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,720
Speaker 3: devils always win against whoever they play cards with because

985
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 3: they cheat. They're devils, of course they cheat. But remember

986
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 3: the old man on the road gave the soldier the

987
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 3: deck of cards that wins for him every time. This

988
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 3: is the deck they play with, and the soldier wins

989
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 3: hand after hand until the devils are furious. They complain

990
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 3: that they are cheating as much as they can and

991
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 3: still it's not working.

992
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 2: I love that detail. I keep coming back to that

993
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 2: because with such a magical item, it would be immoral

994
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 2: if he were to use this against most human gambling.

995
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 2: I mean, you can imagine some situations where he might

996
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: win against some human gamblers that are pretty foul characters.

997
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 2: But for the most part, this allows him to cheat.

998
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 2: But here he's cheating against individuals who are already inherently cheating,

999
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 2: so he's just out cheating the cheaters.

1000
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's only okay to cheat against cheaters.

1001
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1002
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 3: So the soldier plays all night, he keeps winning until

1003
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 3: finally the morning comes, church bells start to ring outside,

1004
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 3: and he says, well, I guess we better call it

1005
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 3: a day, and the lead devil says, no, we will not.

1006
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 3: We will call it breakfast, and you're the meal. So

1007
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 3: the devils are sore losers, but the soldier has a

1008
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 3: trick up his sleeve. Before they can devour him, the

1009
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 3: soldier whips out his magical sack and he orders all

1010
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 3: of the devils inside.

1011
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love the way he always does this too.

1012
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,399
Speaker 2: He's like, what is this and it's like and then

1013
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 2: whoever he's addressed him, was they well that's a sack.

1014
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 2: Well it's a sack, you better get in it. Yeah.

1015
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good phrasing. And you wonder why people

1016
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 3: play along. Even Death later is like, well that's a sack.

1017
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 3: The death answering his questions, but I think I'll be

1018
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 3: asking the questions around here. But it plays out very well.

1019
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 3: So now he's got all the devils inside the sack.

1020
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 3: They're sucked in, and then he proceeds to take the

1021
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 3: sack outside and give it a walloping. It's a real

1022
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 3: Jason vorhees with the lady in the sleeping bag. Yeah,

1023
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,240
Speaker 3: and after a few minutes, the devils are begging for mercy.

1024
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 3: They're like, you're beating us up, please please stop. So

1025
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 3: the soldier does release the devils, but before doing so,

1026
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 3: he makes one of them swear to serve him faithfully forevermore,

1027
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 3: and he keeps the devil's hoof as a token of

1028
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 3: their bargain, so he may call on the devil in

1029
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 3: the future, but he releases it for now. And then

1030
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 3: the narrator says quote, So the devils rushed to hell

1031
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 3: and slammed shut the doors for fear of being followed

1032
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 3: by the soldier and his sack. And they trembled and

1033
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 3: quivered and fumed, fumed, fumed. But the soldier had no

1034
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 3: time for devils. He was the toast of the town

1035
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 3: and the star of the czar. But howsoever, life smiles

1036
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 3: on us. The last laugh is reserved for death, and

1037
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 3: this gets a raised eyebrow from the dog listening to

1038
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 3: the story. Here, So the dog out here confronting mortality

1039
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 3: by the fire, and this is where the commercial break

1040
00:57:49,680 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 3: comes in the formatting of the TV episode. But when

1041
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 3: we come back into the story, the narrator tells us

1042
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 3: that many years later, the soldier is now a rich

1043
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 3: gentleman with a wife and a child, living in a

1044
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 3: castle of his own, respected by everyone, and honored by

1045
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 3: the Tsar. An interesting note, I think on the way

1046
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 3: the soldier looks now, even though this is supposed to

1047
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 3: be many years later. To me, the soldier now looks

1048
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 3: younger than he did at the beginning of the story.

1049
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 3: So he's got long, black, curly hair and a thick mustache,

1050
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 3: and he starts wearing this orange tunic with a leather belt.

1051
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 3: It looks like he has been deaged and given, I

1052
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 3: don't know, a new virility or something.

1053
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 2: In some respects. Yeah, I agree, but I guess the

1054
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 2: other side is like the long hair in the mustache,

1055
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 2: he looks maybe more like a nobleman, not only in

1056
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 2: his dress but also in the way that he's wearing

1057
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:47,919
Speaker 2: his hair.

1058
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, maybe becoming a rich man sort of does

1059
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 3: dage you in some way. So anyway, the soldier's son

1060
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 3: becomes ill with a terrible fever. You know, the story

1061
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 3: takes a dark turn, and the soldier and his wife

1062
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 3: try everything. They spend a fortune on doctors and healers,

1063
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 3: and they call on all manner of quacks in the

1064
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 3: hope that someone can help their son get better, the

1065
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 3: storyteller says, And soon the room is full with gray

1066
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 3: beards and shaking of heads, and we see these healer

1067
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 3: figures only as shadows cast upon the wall, milling about

1068
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 3: uselessly and yammering at each other, and the narrator describes

1069
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,959
Speaker 3: how is The fever draws on, the boy passes into

1070
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 3: a swoon, and then the gray bearded healers are replaced

1071
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 3: by priests. They come to administer the last rites, and

1072
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 3: then finally an undertaker in black who comes to measure

1073
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 3: the boy for a coffin. So desperate, the soldier remembers

1074
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 3: from long ago his deal with the devils, the devils

1075
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 3: who promise to serve him faithfully. And then we see

1076
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 3: on the window sill of the room the soldier still

1077
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 3: has the devil's cloven hoof as a keepsake. He's got

1078
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 3: a potted plant growing out of it.

1079
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a nice detail, little black flowers.

1080
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 3: So the soldier summons the devil the foot belonged to,

1081
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 3: and the devil appears at once. The soldier proposes a deal.

1082
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 3: He says, cure my son and you can have your

1083
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 3: foot back. And the devil takes that deal. So how's

1084
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 3: it going to work? Well, the devil holds up a

1085
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 3: glass of crystal filled with water. He asks the soldier

1086
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 3: to look through the glass and look for the face

1087
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 3: of death. So he looks inside and there he sees

1088
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 3: the grim Reaper. Now I think we could comment a

1089
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 3: lot on the design and appearance of death. Do you

1090
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 3: want to comment first on this?

1091
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, and I imagine we have pretty much the

1092
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 2: same notes here. This is of course a puppetry effect,

1093
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 2: but ambiguity would be the main thing would I would

1094
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 2: draw on here to describe death, because is death male

1095
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 2: or female? Neither or both? Impossible to say. The face

1096
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 2: has skeletal aspects, but it's also clearly a fleshed creature

1097
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 2: at the same time out but also doesn't look you know,

1098
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 2: diseased or particularly gaunt. Looks both gaunt and plump at

1099
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 2: the same time. It looks a little bit like an

1100
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: old man or old woman, but also a bit like

1101
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 2: an infant. Yeah it you know, there's no sense that

1102
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 2: this is a biological entity of our own world. But yeah,

1103
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:21,919
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel completely like a spirit either. Yeah. Yeah.

1104
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 3: Pale, fleshed humanoid and these black robes with a black hood,

1105
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 3: slightly feline quality to the face, a heavy bony eyebrow region,

1106
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 3: dark eyes with almost black irises, thin lips, a high hairline,

1107
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 3: and all of this plays together into these ambiguities you

1108
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 3: talk about. I totally agree. It looks like the gender

1109
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 3: is ambiguous. It looks like it could be a man

1110
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 3: or a woman. The age is ambiguous. It looks at

1111
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 3: the same time like a like an old man or woman,

1112
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 3: or like a baby, and has these kind of hybrid

1113
01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 3: human animal qualities.

1114
01:01:59,320 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: I think with the.

1115
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 3: Fear appearance, it's straddling all different types of categories.

1116
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 2: And it doesn't you know, we did a whole series

1117
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 2: talking about the different sort of death embodiments that we've

1118
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 2: been explored in human cultures, and this one is it

1119
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 2: does not feel menacing directly menacing anyway. But one of

1120
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 2: the things about it too is by looking through the glass,

1121
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,919
Speaker 2: the soldier looks at death, and Death looks at him.

1122
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 2: And they never didn't really describe this, but there is

1123
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 2: a sense in the episode in the Soldier and Death

1124
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 2: that now something is looking at you that would you

1125
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 2: would normally never make eye contact with. You now have

1126
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 2: direct visual communication with a potent entity of the unseen world.

1127
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 3: It is portrayed not as threatening or violent. It's actually

1128
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 3: a very serene, almost reserved kind of presence, but also

1129
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 3: is very creepy because I think of the way that

1130
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 3: in part is conceptual creepiness, partly is creepy because of

1131
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 3: how it looks, but also because of the idea and

1132
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 3: the story that it was always there before and it

1133
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 3: is only holding up this glass that lets you see it.

1134
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 3: And now you know that it's been there by the

1135
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 3: bed the whole time.

1136
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, every sick bed, every death bed, This entity

1137
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 2: is there. But the glass allows you to see and

1138
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 2: more importantly, to see where it stands. Does death stand

1139
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:27,959
Speaker 2: at the head of the bed or at the foot

1140
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 2: of the bed?

1141
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 3: Right, So that's the key part of the folk tale here.

1142
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 3: The soldier affirms to the devil that he sees death

1143
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 3: in the glass, and the devil asks where death is standing.

1144
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 3: The soldier tells him it lingers at the foot of

1145
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 3: the bed. The devil says, that's good. That means the

1146
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 3: boy will recover. When you see death standing at the

1147
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 3: head of the bed, that's when you know that the

1148
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 3: sick person will die. The devil tells the soldier to

1149
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 3: sprinkle water from the glass on to his child and

1150
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 3: then he will be cured. So the soldier does. He

1151
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 3: sprinkles the water and it works. The boy healed and

1152
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 3: the family is overjoyed. But the soldier is not done

1153
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 3: making deals with the devil. He tells the devil, give

1154
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 3: me the magic glass which reveals death, and I will

1155
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 3: release you of your obligation to serve me. And the

1156
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 3: devil takes the deal with some very characteristic muppet flare.

1157
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 3: The devil departs with his hoof, kind of muttering about

1158
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 3: how he likes the black flowers growing.

1159
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 2: Out of it. Our boy, the soldier is a good,

1160
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 2: good deal maker here he displays this power time and

1161
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 2: time again. Yeah.

1162
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 3: So, now with the magical glass, the soldier sets up

1163
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 3: a new trade. He is now a miracle man, traveling

1164
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 3: the world, we are told, on the back of a camel,

1165
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 3: healing the sick, or at least those that are within

1166
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 3: his power to heal. He can't heal everyone because when

1167
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 3: death is at the head of the bed, there's nothing

1168
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 3: he can do. So he goes around and he visits

1169
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 3: sick people. He holds up the glass, he looks for death.

1170
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 3: If death is at the foot of the bed, he

1171
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 3: sprinkles the water and they recover it once. If death

1172
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 3: is at the head of the bed, he shakes his

1173
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 3: head solemnly and says, nothing I can do. But apparently

1174
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 3: he gets paid either way, so that's nice. So he

1175
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 3: works this trade for many years until one day he

1176
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 3: is summoned to the Tsar's palace. The Tsar himself has

1177
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 3: fallen ill, and as we're told earlier in the story,

1178
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 3: the Tsar is now his patron, you know, the source

1179
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 3: of many of his great riches. So the soldier goes

1180
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 3: to the Tsar's sick bed and he gazes through the

1181
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 3: glass to see that Death is leaning almost hungrily, this

1182
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 3: time over the Tsar's head, and he explains that he

1183
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 3: came too late. There's nothing he can do now. But

1184
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 3: the Tsar's wife speaks to him harshly about this. She says,

1185
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 3: you cure beggars, thieves, and dogs, but you won't cure

1186
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 3: your king. She suggests that if death has to have

1187
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 3: a life, let it take my life instead. But the

1188
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 3: soldier balks at this. He feels, I think somewhat shamed

1189
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 3: and humbled. He says, if anyone should be trading their life,

1190
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 3: it should him, not her quote. The Tsar has been

1191
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 3: my friend and father. If anyone should go, it should

1192
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 3: be me. So he tells Death, spare the Tzar come

1193
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:13,440
Speaker 3: for me instead, and Death takes the deal. The soldier

1194
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:16,479
Speaker 3: flicks water on the Tzar and the Tsar immediately sits

1195
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 3: up and shouts praise be So now we cut back

1196
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 3: to the soldier's home, and of course death is about

1197
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 3: to come for him. He lies in bed, he's weakened,

1198
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 3: in pain. His family has gathered around him. He looks

1199
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 3: through the glass from his own sick bed and he

1200
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 3: sees Death at the head of his bed, waiting to

1201
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 3: claim him. So, is this the end of our crafty protagonist. No,

1202
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 3: he's still got tricks up his sleeve. So, looking through

1203
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 3: the glass, he speaks to Death. He says, what is

1204
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 3: this I hold in my hand? And Death says a sack.

1205
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 3: The man says, if this is a sack, then get

1206
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 3: in it, and then whoosh. Now Death is in the

1207
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 3: magic sack.

1208
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 2: All right. And in this part of the of the

1209
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 2: episode we get into some There are other folk traditions

1210
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 2: that get into this. We talked about some of these

1211
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 2: in our episodes on death personifications, like what happens when

1212
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 2: death is captured or death takes a holiday, you know,

1213
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 2: or death is himself killed? What does it mean for

1214
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 2: the rest of the world, And we get to reveal

1215
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 2: some of the complex nature of humanity's relationship with death.

1216
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 3: This is also part of the premise of a modern

1217
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 3: novel that we talked about on the show, a bit

1218
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 3: of the Jose Saramago novel Death with interruptions. So anyway,

1219
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 3: here Bob Peck runs around shouting, I've got Death in

1220
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 3: my sack. So John Hurt narrates how the news spreads quickly.

1221
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 3: This is the part where he talks about it spreads

1222
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 3: as fast as gossip, and nothing spreads faster. So Death

1223
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 3: itself has been captured, and the soldier decides to hide

1224
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 3: Death away. So he takes the sack to the thickest

1225
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 3: forest he can find, and he climbs up the tallest

1226
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 3: tree in the forest. He hangs sack on the end

1227
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 3: of the longest branch in the tree, and for good measure,

1228
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 3: he accidentally falls out of the tree, a fall which

1229
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 3: should kill him, but it doesn't because Death is not

1230
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:14,080
Speaker 3: around to come claim him. And then the storyteller explains

1231
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 3: this weird world that has been created by the capture

1232
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,600
Speaker 3: of Death. He says that battles will rage for hours,

1233
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:25,560
Speaker 3: but no one dies. Armies eventually just collapse from exhaustion,

1234
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 3: but there are no fatalities on the battlefield. He says

1235
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 3: that duels go on until midnight, with no winner, and

1236
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 3: the old and the gravely ill wander around in a confusion,

1237
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,760
Speaker 3: waiting for death that will not come. So one day

1238
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,640
Speaker 3: the soldier looks out the window of his castle and

1239
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 3: he sees the old people stumbling about, baffled and in pain,

1240
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 3: and he realizes, oh no, this is actually not good.

1241
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 3: He takes pity on these people because he realizes the

1242
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 3: world needs death. These people eventually must have rest. You know,

1243
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:02,640
Speaker 3: if they can't be be young and strong forever, they

1244
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 3: at least need death to give them relief.

1245
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 2: The world is kind of ground to a halt, and

1246
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 2: there are all these people in pain, and so we

1247
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:14,400
Speaker 2: know death is also a reliever, and Death needs to

1248
01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 2: get back in the game and do its job right.

1249
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 3: So he goes back to the forest, climbs the tree,

1250
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 3: gets the sack down, he opens it, and he says, Death,

1251
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,679
Speaker 3: I've led you a merry dance, but now you must

1252
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 3: have me and set the world to rights. But Death,

1253
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 3: having been tricked by him once, is now afraid of

1254
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,680
Speaker 3: the soldier and runs away from him, never to come

1255
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 3: near him again. So now Death is back in the world,

1256
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 3: but will not claim our protagonist because he's afraid of him.

1257
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 3: So the soldier himself alone becomes deathless and eternal, watching

1258
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:52,679
Speaker 3: everyone grow old and die around him while he lives

1259
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 3: on and on. So then after this, there's a very

1260
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 3: funny scene I thought, where the soldier goes to Hell

1261
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 3: and he tries to turn himself in. He's trying to surrender.

1262
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm a sinful old soul. I'm ready for

1263
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 3: you to take me inside. And the devil who greets

1264
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 3: him at the gate is like, wait a second, what's

1265
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 3: that in your hand? Is that a sack? Get out

1266
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 3: of here, Get away from us. So the devils are

1267
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:19,760
Speaker 3: still terrified of the sack and it's bearer, but the

1268
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 3: soul makes another deal. He says, I will go away

1269
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 3: and take my sack with me if you give me

1270
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:28,960
Speaker 3: a map to heaven and away in. They as soon

1271
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 3: as he says that, they immediately just chuck this map

1272
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 3: out of the window of the gate, like no go.

1273
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 2: He has all the bargaining power.

1274
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then the soldier also bargains for two hundred

1275
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,719
Speaker 3: souls from Hell, which he can take with him to Heaven.

1276
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 3: Why didn't he ask for more? It seems like he

1277
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 3: can get whatever he wants, you know, he just.

1278
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 2: Has an innate sense the two hundred is the right number,

1279
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 2: Like if he'd ask for two fifty, then the devils

1280
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 2: have to go to their manager, and then then you've

1281
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:56,719
Speaker 2: got Satan involved in all this, and it just could

1282
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 2: be get a harder negotiation. So he knows in his

1283
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:01,680
Speaker 2: gut two hundred that's what you asked for.

1284
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 3: So the devils tell him to follow the map and

1285
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 3: keep going up quote until you have the sensation that

1286
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 3: you're standing on your head. That's the edge of heaven.

1287
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 3: After that, follow the church music. Wow, this reminds us,

1288
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:16,679
Speaker 3: reminds me at least of that thing we talked about

1289
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 3: in Dante exactly. Yeah. So the soldier, now old and gray,

1290
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 3: leads these two hundred souls up into the clouds where

1291
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 3: he arrives at the gates of Heaven, a misty white

1292
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 3: place with this massive backlit cross and then a kind

1293
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 3: of freaky robotic sounding sentinel says who approaches the gates

1294
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 3: of Heaven. The soldier announces himself. He says, he's like, yeah,

1295
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 3: I know I'm not getting into Heaven on my own merits,

1296
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 3: but I brought you two hundred souls from hell. I

1297
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:49,360
Speaker 3: figure that's enough of a good deed to get me

1298
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 3: into heaven, right, But the guardian says, no, nothing doing.

1299
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:56,799
Speaker 3: The two hundred souls can come in, but you cannot.

1300
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 3: I guess the soldier is just that sinful he can't

1301
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 3: get it, or.

1302
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:02,639
Speaker 2: It's just you know, it's the spirit of the thing,

1303
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 2: like he's he bargained his way with the devils. But

1304
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 2: it takes more than bargaining power to actually pass the

1305
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:11,360
Speaker 2: pearly gates.

1306
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:13,680
Speaker 3: And we'll get to another thing about that in just

1307
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 3: a moment. So once more, the soldier has a plan

1308
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 3: that he is denied entry, but the two hundred souls

1309
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 3: can go in. He gives his magical sack to one

1310
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 3: of the two hundred souls and he tells the soul, now, remember,

1311
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 3: once you're inside Heaven, call me into the sack. And

1312
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:34,479
Speaker 3: he he's like, remember I delivered you from the furnace line. Clever,

1313
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 3: clever plan. This is a good plan. But finally, for

1314
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 3: the first time, the soldier's scheme does not work because

1315
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 3: there's something he didn't realize. As the narrator tells us,

1316
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 3: souls have no memory in heaven, so as soon as

1317
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,840
Speaker 3: the soul crosses the threshold, it forgets the plan to

1318
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 3: call the soldier in. So the soldier is left stuck outside.

1319
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:00,599
Speaker 3: And I think there is a moral to this story here.

1320
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 3: It's that you can outsmart the devil, you can outsmart death,

1321
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 3: but you can't outsmart.

1322
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 2: God, so it would see.

1323
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:11,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the soldier wanders back down to earth, and

1324
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:15,559
Speaker 3: as far as we know, he is wandering still. And

1325
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 3: then there's a little you know, there's some back and

1326
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 3: forth between the storyteller and the dog about the meaning

1327
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,720
Speaker 3: of the story. The dog thinks that the end of

1328
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 3: the story is sad. The storyteller thinks maybe not. He says,

1329
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 3: the soldier is a rare one. He always finds something

1330
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,680
Speaker 3: new to get up to. And I can see how

1331
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 3: people might interpret this as meaning that the storyteller himself

1332
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:38,640
Speaker 3: is the soldier.

1333
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, I think that's fine if you

1334
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 2: want to interpret it that way. But I don't know.

1335
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,759
Speaker 2: I like that, like the idea that it is either

1336
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 2: just a story or again, maybe he has met the

1337
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 2: soldier at one point. But then again, with the nature

1338
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 2: of storytelling, like all of these things are kind of

1339
01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 2: true at the same time. The character and a storyteller,

1340
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 2: tale is the storyteller, and they are also someone he

1341
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 2: has met and it is also someone that has never existed. Yeah.

1342
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 3: So John Hurt finally gives the dog a biscuit and

1343
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 3: then there's a final gag. The dog tries to order

1344
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 3: John Hurt to get into the sack the biscuits came

1345
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 3: out of, but there's no magic doesn't work, so he

1346
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:20,599
Speaker 3: tosses the sack across the room and then we get

1347
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:22,599
Speaker 3: We do get to see a crabby little red devil

1348
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 3: crawl out and wander around.

1349
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, nice little finish, nice little stinger. And then we

1350
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 2: roll credits and that is the Soldier and Death.

1351
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:34,160
Speaker 3: Good selections. As I said, this was my first ever

1352
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 3: episode of the John Hurt series of the Storyteller. I

1353
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 3: liked it very much. I want to see the other

1354
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 3: ones now.

1355
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:43,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I highly recommend them to folks out there. You know,

1356
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 2: they're you know again there's they're short. They're so well done,

1357
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 2: you know, just about every front, and they tell these

1358
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:54,680
Speaker 2: stories in a way that retain all of their you know,

1359
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 2: some of their darker aspects, but also like making you laugh,

1360
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:02,759
Speaker 2: you know, inspiring, you know, creating a world of fantasy

1361
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:05,440
Speaker 2: and magic. They're just so well done and they absolutely

1362
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 2: hold up all right, Well, We're going to go ahead

1363
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:10,720
Speaker 2: and close out this episode of Weird House Cinema, but

1364
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 2: would love to hear from everyone out there if you

1365
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 2: have thoughts about the Storyteller series or I guess both

1366
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:21,519
Speaker 2: Storyteller series. I want to know what your favorite episodes are.

1367
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 2: Is it The Soldier in Death or is it another one?

1368
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 2: Do you have particular personal accounts about when you discovered

1369
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 2: the show for yourself and when it sucked you into

1370
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 2: its world. Write in We would love to hear from you.

1371
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:36,880
Speaker 2: Just a reminder to everyone out there that's Stuff to

1372
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,559
Speaker 2: Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture episode

1373
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:42,599
Speaker 2: on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but we do a short form

1374
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 2: episode on Wednesdays and on Fridays. We set aside most

1375
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 2: serious concerns to just talk about a weird film on

1376
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 2: Weird House Cinema.

1377
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:53,040
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1378
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1379
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1380
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1381
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1382
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:09,520
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

1383
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,600
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1384
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1385
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.