Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where, like Mike McCarthy, you can
Speaker 1: always go home again. I'm home in the Chris Wesleyan
Speaker 1: podcast studio with my friend Jordan rod Reeg.
Speaker 2: Hello.
Speaker 1: This is the third division preview that we've tackled together.
Speaker 2: When we came up with.
Speaker 1: This division preview idea, like the idea with other people
Speaker 1: would be in the mix, but you're kind of just
Speaker 1: hogging all the previews for yourself, and I like it
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 3: You know, I never know when you start a sentence.
Speaker 3: I never know quite where you're going. If I'm gonna
Speaker 3: feel bad at the end, if I'm gonna feel good
Speaker 3: at the end. Thank you. I appreciate that. I like
Speaker 3: being here.
Speaker 1: I don't know where I'm going either, frankly, which is
Speaker 1: a tough way to be when this is your profession,
Speaker 1: mentioned Mike McCarthy in his return to yes his hometown
Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh. They will be the last team because we
Speaker 1: go alphabetical order that we mentioned in our AFC North
Speaker 1: Division preview. Like I said, this is our third. We
Speaker 1: hit the Western divisions first to some contract controversy. We
Speaker 1: had one very angry whoa Boston Bruins fan that was
Speaker 1: like they know what they're doing. This is BS using
Speaker 1: different words that you're going that you're going West first.
Speaker 2: I can't believe it.
Speaker 3: We're going counterclockwise.
Speaker 1: Patients, We're gonna get to them all. Everyone gets literally
Speaker 1: equal time.
Speaker 3: They might even get better as we go.
Speaker 1: But it has been a problem, I think over the
Speaker 1: course of history, the East Coast bias that in terms
Speaker 1: of division previews and whatnot across all sports and podcasts,
Speaker 1: East always goes first. We're trying to we're trying to
Speaker 1: shake that up. West Coast best Coast.
Speaker 3: Too long has my life been dictated by the five
Speaker 3: a m. Eastern time? There you go, Adam Schefter news break,
Speaker 3: no more, no more.
Speaker 2: Although we're going north next, none that. It doesn't make
Speaker 2: any sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going counterclockwise.
Speaker 2: We just wanted to do it this way. So here
Speaker 2: are the rules.
Speaker 1: And if you're looking for the news of the day,
Speaker 1: we're breaking up our news of the day with the
Speaker 1: division previews during camps, so you can find that in
Speaker 1: the feed from Wednesday, and we'll obviously be updating the
Speaker 1: news on Thursday as well. The format twelve minutes per team,
Speaker 1: a bunch of different categories for each team, starting with
Speaker 1: the Baltimore Ravens. Let's start that clock. The first category,
Speaker 1: as always, Jordan, is what is bringing us joy about
Speaker 1: this team? And as always you get first DIBs on that.
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe they found a center.
Speaker 2: Maybe Ethan Pochick. You're starting with him to check.
Speaker 3: No, wait, the whole deep into the off season problem
Speaker 3: solving brought me a little bit of joy. There was
Speaker 3: really only one super super glaring issue to me on
Speaker 3: this roster. There's a few that we are still sort
Speaker 3: of a wait and see. We have to see how
Speaker 3: the receiver corps shakes out behind say Flowers. We have
Speaker 3: to wait and see how the pass rush maybe improves
Speaker 3: with Matta Bkay coming back. This one was the hole.
Speaker 3: This was the hole, right. This was the one where
Speaker 3: they mixed around like Ioni Vega and maybe thinking maybe
Speaker 3: he could con to a center in his rookie season.
Speaker 3: They're gonna it, sounds like play him in his preferred position,
Speaker 3: which I want to see. I will be watching him
Speaker 3: specifically all season over at guard instead of at center.
Speaker 3: And they have a center. That was a huge, huge
Speaker 3: hole and they filled it and now they're ready to go.
Speaker 1: They also brought into John Simpson who used to be
Speaker 1: on the Ravens, so there's some familiarity. We'll get to
Speaker 1: a little bit of their running game later. But yes,
Speaker 1: it is exciting. These two big guards Venga Yuana, the
Speaker 1: first round pick and Simpson together. What's bringing me joy
Speaker 1: is yeah, the new coaches like that. It does feel
Speaker 1: like a new day. The whole idea of that John
Speaker 1: Harbaugh was getting stale by the end. There was some
Speaker 1: reporting around that in terms of how the players were reacting.
Speaker 2: I think it's just natural.
Speaker 1: It's inevitable over the longest, over a long timeline, you
Speaker 1: have Jesse Minter, you have Declan Doyle, and then you
Speaker 1: also have Lamar Jackson showing up in the best shape
Speaker 1: of his life quote unquote.
Speaker 2: It's a There.
Speaker 1: Are seasons like this with Lamar that you kind of
Speaker 1: can see it coming. So he's been boxing a lot
Speaker 1: with Zay Flowers, saying that Zay flowers his work ethic
Speaker 1: was tough for him to keep up with, and he
Speaker 1: really appreciated it, and he is looking good early in camp.
Speaker 1: Let's listen to Kyle Hamilton talk about Lamar at the
Speaker 1: start of camp.
Speaker 4: From a I guess ability standpoint, you know, I feel
Speaker 4: like he's he might have gotten faster somehow. I don't
Speaker 4: want agent, but he's turning a certain age next year,
Speaker 4: and you know it doesn't seem like that. You know, he's, uh,
Speaker 4: we'll keep the age between us, what the age he's
Speaker 4: going to be, but he uh, I feel like he
Speaker 4: got faster. I feel like he ran today. It was
Speaker 4: really fast. I don't know if you guys saw that,
Speaker 4: but maybe that's just how he always runs. But he's
Speaker 4: he's just like our season. I feel like he's going
Speaker 4: to get better throughout the whole year, and the more
Speaker 4: comfortable he gets and what they've got going on, which
Speaker 4: I have a ton of faith in. I'm talking to
Speaker 4: those guys. They have a ton of faith in it.
Speaker 4: So he's just gonna get that much better.
Speaker 1: I actually think this is a real story because this
Speaker 1: was also the story three years ago before that first
Speaker 1: MVP season, when he was coming off so rough seasons.
Speaker 1: It was like, oh, he kind of looks faster again.
Speaker 1: He's been strucking through injuries. I'm buying it. Maybe, And
Speaker 1: you know what Kyle Hamilton also talked about was how
Speaker 1: he looked really comfortable with a lot of the under
Speaker 1: center stuff in play action and fakes and all that
Speaker 1: which is going to be part of this offense. So
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's part of your scheme dream
Speaker 1: that's one of our categories or not. Are you talking
Speaker 1: offense at all there? That could be a transition If not,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty guys, I'm.
Speaker 3: Talking a little offense, but only when the things go
Speaker 3: wrong category. So that's not not as positive maybe to
Speaker 3: start out. But I do think that that reminds me
Speaker 3: of every time that meme comes around, where it's like
Speaker 3: player turns thirty, he's older than dirt, he's the most
Speaker 3: sacent man alive. And then it makes the thirty plus
Speaker 3: year olds and in your case, what is it forty
Speaker 3: almost fifty plus year old?
Speaker 2: I am forty seven.
Speaker 3: Yeah, makes us, you know, just feel a little bit
Speaker 3: closer to the crypt ourselves. But yeah, for me, I
Speaker 3: think that it goes hand in hand.
Speaker 2: You're going crypt that you want to be put in
Speaker 2: a crypt.
Speaker 3: I think that's what people are doing. I can come
Speaker 3: back that way, you know.
Speaker 2: Really sure they do that anywhere I don't even know.
Speaker 3: I can come back and haunt you a little more
Speaker 3: easily that way. I feel like Declan Doyle, I mean,
Speaker 3: I know, it's like kind of obvious. We're going to
Speaker 3: talk about the defense. That's to me the most important
Speaker 3: thing about this team in general, but installing a new offense,
Speaker 3: one that really is going to try to maximize what
Speaker 3: Lamar Jackson does in his prime. Decland Doyle is the
Speaker 3: youngest offensive coordinator in the NFL right now who's going
Speaker 3: to be calling plays, And he's calling plays for the
Speaker 3: first time. He's of the Ben Johnson system, but what
Speaker 3: he's going and sort of the Sean Payton tree as well.
Speaker 3: But I think he's going to probably claim Ben Johnson
Speaker 3: because what he's going to do is a ton of
Speaker 3: twelve personnel. It sounds like, which which is You know,
Speaker 3: That's that's good because that's what the Ravens basically lived in.
Speaker 3: That's how their rosters has pretty much been built. But
Speaker 3: Isaiah likely is now in New York with John Harbaugh,
Speaker 3: the former head coach, So they have Mark Andrews and
Speaker 3: then he and he's a veteran, and they've got durham
Speaker 3: smythe who's from Chicago played with under Deckland Doyle when
Speaker 3: he is in Chicago. And I think that this is
Speaker 3: going to be interesting because you are going to see
Speaker 3: more under center with what they like to do. You
Speaker 3: are going to see more play action. When I was
Speaker 3: at league meetings this spring, there was so much conversation
Speaker 3: about what is a Deckland Doyle offense going to look like?
Speaker 3: And how many elements of the run pass does he
Speaker 3: still keep? What is the run game going to look like?
Speaker 3: We know that they really preferred a two back system.
Speaker 3: Ben Johnson really loved playing a two back system, So
Speaker 3: what is that going to look like? You know, with
Speaker 3: Derrick Henry and the complement of backs there, does the
Speaker 3: third running back then become a little bit more of
Speaker 3: a special teams player the way that it happened in
Speaker 3: Chicago as well. It's all of these little tiny tweaks
Speaker 3: that are going to be happening in the effort to
Speaker 3: try to again maximize everything Lamar Jackson can do. But
Speaker 3: then my question of things going wrong is part and
Speaker 3: parcel with this a phrase you love, which is the receivers.
Speaker 3: And I will talk about it in a minute because
Speaker 3: I'm curious about your most important person on the team,
Speaker 3: But keep a tab open on those receivers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to see this run game work,
Speaker 1: and if it does look they're they were a very
Speaker 1: heavy run team, and I think the new offensive line
Speaker 1: is fun. Poachage if he can stay healthy, shores up
Speaker 1: that center spot. The getting massive guards in initially as
Speaker 1: the first thing you want to do in terms of
Speaker 1: your team build is very Sean Payton coded. And you
Speaker 1: mentioned how Declan Doyle, the youngest OC in the league,
Speaker 1: was with both those coaches. I mean he was with
Speaker 1: Sean Payton for like six years, so that is a
Speaker 1: huge influence. And they brought in Dwayne Ledyard, who did
Speaker 1: a good job coaching the offensive line in the Lanta.
Speaker 2: So to me, that's all very positive.
Speaker 1: Jesse Minner, I think because of the excitement about Decklan
Speaker 1: Doyle on the offense has almost been laying in.
Speaker 2: The cut a little bit.
Speaker 1: But twenty ninth in pressure rate last year, thirty first
Speaker 1: and sacrate. These are the Baltimore Ravens, and you know
Speaker 1: he's gonna bring his system, which frankly isn't that different
Speaker 1: than the system they were running last year in Baltimore.
Speaker 1: He's gonna have his tweaks, but he was third in
Speaker 1: using dime defense last year the Ravens were second. Like
Speaker 1: they're just hoping that better players help the system oblep
Speaker 1: mentor can can coach them up in a way that
Speaker 1: a young DC couldn't. We've only got four minutes left already,
Speaker 1: so my most important non quarterback, Trey.
Speaker 2: Hendrickson is there now.
Speaker 1: Remember thirty one years old, was effective before he got
Speaker 1: hurt last year, has really aged incredibly well when he's
Speaker 1: been on the field. But he has to be that dude, like,
Speaker 1: he has to be everything that they traded for. They
Speaker 1: made the decision to basically pick him over Max Crosby
Speaker 1: because of the injury situation, and now you've got Travis
Speaker 1: Jones next to him.
Speaker 2: Madam Buik, you mentioned his next toom.
Speaker 1: But it's pretty shaky at the other edge spot, and
Speaker 1: so he's got to make it happen. He's just got
Speaker 1: to kind of be the guy that we think he's
Speaker 1: going to be, but I don't always assume that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with thirty one year old dead dressers.
Speaker 3: And the injury history with him too, that's obviously huge.
Speaker 3: Mike Green had a really bad rookie season and not
Speaker 3: the one that they hoped from him in terms of
Speaker 3: his production on the field, so that he has to
Speaker 3: take a step forward to Jesse Minter loves to play
Speaker 3: in light boxes. This is my scheme dream. It's all
Speaker 3: about Jesse Mitte.
Speaker 2: I thought we already did that. You were just talking off.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm so I most important. I was going in order.
Speaker 3: You told me to go in order, most important on quarterback.
Speaker 3: My scheme dream is all about Jesse Minter.
Speaker 2: I go where the emotion.
Speaker 3: Well, you're steering Greg, so maybe try to bring me along.
Speaker 2: I asked you. Yes, I was just like in there
Speaker 2: pop around.
Speaker 3: He has Anthony Weaver as his defensive coordinator, which is
Speaker 3: I think great. I think that's a great pairing because
Speaker 3: both of those coaches. What they do have in common
Speaker 3: is the fact that they've played this Mike McDonald sort
Speaker 3: of style of system, but with a lot of Vic
Speaker 3: Fangio elements as well. And so this is like a
Speaker 3: light box front, right, So they're playing with again, they're
Speaker 3: spread out along their front and there's a either one
Speaker 3: less player or two less players along their front, depending
Speaker 3: on the concept than you would see in like a
Speaker 3: four to three for example. And they also like to
Speaker 3: play like a move player zone behind it. And one
Speaker 3: of these like wrinkles that I think we're going to
Speaker 3: see because he helped build out that package for for
Speaker 3: Derwin James when he did it with the Chargers. You're
Speaker 3: going to see perhaps either Kyle Hamilton, who can play
Speaker 3: anywhere as we know, as long as the players around
Speaker 3: him step up to the challenge, or you know, some
Speaker 3: of the depth players or some of the extra dbs
Speaker 3: that they have there that they brought in this offseason.
Speaker 3: I think that there's real potential here for them to
Speaker 3: really play that coverage dictates front to help their front,
Speaker 3: at least in the short term, because they really like
Speaker 3: to try to almost force you to run like a
Speaker 3: either right downhill and chip away, and not many teams
Speaker 3: can do that efficiently, or they want to try to
Speaker 3: like spread you into a wider make you try to
Speaker 3: think you can run like a wider zone, and that's
Speaker 3: when the safety comes down and mitigates all of that,
Speaker 3: and then all of that together will help set up
Speaker 3: what the pass rush wants to do. So I think
Speaker 3: that's what they're sort of banking on, is that his
Speaker 3: system will elevate the coverage first and foremost and all
Speaker 3: the different things that they want to do there, and
Speaker 3: then that helps set up the rush into maybe a
Speaker 3: more advantageous situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think things go wrong there if like, look,
Speaker 1: you're County on a back end where Kyle Hamilton's to
Speaker 1: fix everything. Yeah, the last couple of seasons, and so
Speaker 1: to me, it's more about players not plays. Nate Wiggins
Speaker 1: is an improving young player. Marlon Humphrey was not great
Speaker 1: last year. Malachi Starks. I think they were maybe a
Speaker 1: little disappointed about Rokwan Smith was not Roquan Smith. So
Speaker 1: we're talking about a lot of defensive players and then
Speaker 1: the return of mat of Weekend who just need to
Speaker 1: play better.
Speaker 3: Jalen Hawkins is a sort of an under the radar
Speaker 3: edition there that I think he could play that move
Speaker 3: role as well in the Patriots from the Patriots and
Speaker 3: I think that he will be quietly one of the
Speaker 3: players to make an impact for them in a versatile way.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned, yeah the receiver depth after Ze Flowers.
Speaker 2: As we wrap up, he.
Speaker 1: Had the second highest target share in the NFL last year,
Speaker 1: but he had one of the top five target shares
Speaker 1: of the last like twenty years according to FDN Fantasy.
Speaker 1: Like he's up there with like Michael Thomas with the
Speaker 1: old Saints teams. Like that's how bad it was behind them,
Speaker 1: so they need some of those.
Speaker 3: Sean Bateman, where are you at man?
Speaker 1: They drafted you know, a couple players Elijah Starat who
Speaker 1: I kind of like that of Indiana. So you and
Speaker 1: you let those tight ends go when you want to
Speaker 1: run twelve like it's it's not a lot, it's not
Speaker 1: enough weapons around Lamar ceiling floor is how we wrap
Speaker 1: up each team.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard for me to talk. So look at
Speaker 3: this offensive line, which still question it's center obviously, but
Speaker 3: I think the offensive line got better and is going
Speaker 3: to be better this year. And I'm really high on
Speaker 3: Jesse Minter, on Decklan Doyle, on Anthony Weaver being there
Speaker 3: as well, I'm like sky high on Lamar. I it's
Speaker 3: hard for me to not say this is a deep
Speaker 3: playoff team and we'll see what happens after that if
Speaker 3: they can play a little bit more matchup friendly football,
Speaker 3: and then their floor is exactly what we just saw,
Speaker 3: you know, get to the playoffs and.
Speaker 2: Not even last year though, you know.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean exactly like just be medium, be injured.
Speaker 3: I'm trying not to factor injury injuries in there, and
Speaker 3: just like kind of peter out.
Speaker 2: The schedule is very favorable.
Speaker 1: People are confused, why are the Ravens the slight favorites?
Speaker 1: All these teams are pretty close, but in terms of
Speaker 1: best odds to make the Super Bowl right now in Vegas,
Speaker 1: the Ravens are actually the favorites and they come out
Speaker 1: really well. So to the Bengals and a lot of
Speaker 1: these advanced metrics kind of projecting system because on paper,
Speaker 1: the schedule looks pretty favorable. You get the Browns twice,
Speaker 1: and you get the AFC South and you get the
Speaker 1: NFC South most importantly, so to me, the floor this
Speaker 1: team should be, yeah, making the playoffs seventh and or
Speaker 1: else it's a disaster. And you know, I'm into Onoman's
Speaker 1: first play of training camp, twenty yard downfield strike to
Speaker 1: Jay Jones.
Speaker 2: Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: Maybe let's go to the Bengals. It's a great omen
Speaker 1: just just a seed. I think it'll be good.
Speaker 3: Lo Mari Year say Jones was out there.
Speaker 2: I said, Jay Jones, didn't I.
Speaker 3: Zay Flowers grag, you're steering man, your steedt.
Speaker 2: Zay Flowers the Bengals, what's get bringing us? Joy?
Speaker 1: I can't believe how much optimism there is about the
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Bengals coming off a six win team. I think
Speaker 1: it's born out from the Dexter Lawrence trade and the
Speaker 1: fact that Joe Burrow has talked about this is the
Speaker 1: best Bengals team that we've ever had, and they did
Speaker 1: very on Bengals theme on Bengals things this offseason in
Speaker 1: terms of signing Boy Mafe and bringing in Dexter Lawrence,
Speaker 1: and it does kind of feel like, you know, if
Speaker 1: not now, then when for Burrow, Chase Higgins, certainly Zach Taylor,
Speaker 1: but even that threesome. So it's like, let's not just
Speaker 1: be good on offense and have that record where we're
Speaker 1: have a losing record where we score thirty points but
Speaker 1: we lose when we blame it on the defense. Let's
Speaker 1: just let's be great. Let's be the best offense in
Speaker 1: the league. Let's not leave anything to chance, like do it.
Speaker 2: This is the year.
Speaker 3: I love that the thing that's bringing me joy. I
Speaker 3: think this probably applies to the other three starting quarterbacks
Speaker 3: in this division overall, but the fact that they're imagining
Speaker 3: their reactions is just so joyful. When they don't, they
Speaker 3: realize they don't have to, you know, be against Miles
Speaker 3: Garrett anymore, and when that actually sinks in when a
Speaker 3: starting those games or planning for those games, and what
Speaker 3: that sort of relief is going to feel like. But really,
Speaker 3: what it is to me is I never really got
Speaker 3: into the show's succession because I don't like TV shows
Speaker 3: where I hate every character. But this Bengals team is
Speaker 3: going to give me like a real life drama on
Speaker 3: plot right, because the front office has put themselves in
Speaker 3: a position where it cannot possibly be their fault if
Speaker 3: things go wrong. This is all going to be on
Speaker 3: the coaching staff. And they got the quarterback everything he
Speaker 3: ever wanted, and they actually took big swings, which brought
Speaker 3: me a lot of joy to see them actually swinging
Speaker 3: hard for different things and taking risks and trading top
Speaker 3: picks for a top player that they think is at
Speaker 3: a premier position for them and a need in Dexter Lawrence.
Speaker 3: They swung hard, the front office did. And so this
Speaker 3: is a separation. Now, I told you last year you're
Speaker 3: going to see when all of it starts. It starts
Speaker 3: right here. This is the split. We did everything, we
Speaker 3: did our jobs, we did everything. Now it's on you.
Speaker 3: If you don't got it, you're gone.
Speaker 1: Also, Joe Burrow potentially want to be gone if things
Speaker 1: go poorly, like can you keep Higgins and Chase together forever?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if Duke Tobin, who's the quasi
Speaker 1: general manager, has gone as well if it went poorly.
Speaker 2: But I think it's set up to too well.
Speaker 3: High ceiling, really high ceiling.
Speaker 1: Really high ceiling team. And yeah, I will always defend
Speaker 1: Kendall Roy. Definitely Shive Roy. I mean to me, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of likable characters Tom I like them. You know,
Speaker 1: we all have a fault. That's my succession review. Most
Speaker 1: important non quarterback, I'll go Dexter Lawrence. We talked about
Speaker 1: him a lot when he got traded, and it's similar
Speaker 1: to how I talked about Trade Hendrickson with the Ravens.
Speaker 1: He just has to be closer to where he was
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago before the injury than he
Speaker 1: was last year. And that's real pass rush juice. Because
Speaker 1: this team does not have a lot next to him.
Speaker 1: You can say, okay, you brought Boie Mafi. I like
Speaker 1: boy Mafi. Boy Mafi worked well as one piece out
Speaker 1: of six pretty effective US rushers, and he's gonna be
Speaker 1: that for them. But those are your two main guys.
Speaker 1: They've already lost some Stewart who really struggled as a rookie.
Speaker 2: To an injury. Maybe it winds up.
Speaker 3: To not watch the serious, don't watch the video.
Speaker 1: But Lawrence can make so many people better. He's the
Speaker 1: type of force multiplier that can make the rest of
Speaker 1: the line where there's some like decent depth options. I
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, Casius Howell to on the
Speaker 1: edge as a draft pick, like they have players, but
Speaker 1: he has to be the dude.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that Cassius Howel pick. I was a
Speaker 3: little higher on that I think than consensus. But for me,
Speaker 3: the most non important non quarterback is Al Golden, so
Speaker 3: the defensive coordinator, because he that defense did actually improve
Speaker 3: over the back half of the season. It legitimately got better.
Speaker 3: DJ Turner was very very good for him for them.
Speaker 3: The corner. Dax Hill, their other corner, was very very
Speaker 3: good for them. Showed his potential, especially you know in
Speaker 3: Jalen Davis seems like he'll at least be in the
Speaker 3: lead for that nickel position. So at least they have
Speaker 3: that settled right, and they've got their front they think
Speaker 3: figured out a little bit better, especially with an anchor
Speaker 3: like Dexter Lawrence playing there. I like the fact that
Speaker 3: they brought in a little bit of depth, a little
Speaker 3: competition to Carrio Davis, the corner, the rookie corner that
Speaker 3: they drafted. I feel like I'm interested in I'm interested
Speaker 3: in the size speed combination. I'm interested to see how
Speaker 3: he can compete. And I think that the combination of
Speaker 3: Dexter Lawrence, you know, sort of as I say, this
Speaker 3: a lot the center of that solar system around all
Speaker 3: things orbiting.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: The linebackers still like they were. I mean, I just
Speaker 3: didn't think they were very good, and they showed some
Speaker 3: improvement again like the rest of the defense near the
Speaker 3: end of the season. But they just need to continue that.
Speaker 3: They need to sustain what we saw in like little
Speaker 3: spurts and flashes last year, and they need to like
Speaker 3: put it all together in a way that makes sense,
Speaker 3: not just players making their plays the way that we
Speaker 3: saw with DJ Turner at times. You know, everything has
Speaker 3: to actually work together, and Al Golden has to be
Speaker 3: the one to put that all together.
Speaker 1: And he didn't show that he could. The Bengals fans
Speaker 1: in I think rightly are trying to hold on to
Speaker 1: that improvement. But historically, being way better down the stretch
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're going to be better the next season.
Speaker 1: The best test is how you were over the course
Speaker 1: of the season. They were the worst defense in the
Speaker 1: you know, in the NFL, and one of the worst
Speaker 1: ever for the first half, and in the end it
Speaker 1: added up to one of the worst three or four defenses.
Speaker 1: And so he hasn't shown Al Golden, who was the
Speaker 1: Notre Dame defensive coordinator. So he's bumping up from from
Speaker 1: college at least, you know, for the last three years
Speaker 1: he was in college, and maybe he had a learning curve,
Speaker 1: So he's gonna have to show it because they're not
Speaker 1: getting much schematic advantage, I don't think on offense, and
Speaker 1: they need it on defense. That leads me to my
Speaker 1: scheme dream, which is we are on like year six
Speaker 1: of hearing that Joe Burrow is open to more play action,
Speaker 1: that the running game will be under center. Joe Burrow, yeah,
Speaker 1: famously loves to play in shotgun. It feels like it's
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow's offense really, and they build it around him,
Speaker 1: which which makes sense that he hasn't been as comfortable
Speaker 1: you know, under center. They just haven't done that, and
Speaker 1: they say, he says he's open to doing that, and
Speaker 1: he thinks, you know, that could help out Chase Brown.
Speaker 2: And the running game.
Speaker 1: Which was erratic last year, really struggled at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the year. They were awful and looked better when
Speaker 1: Joe Flacco was under center. And so I don't think
Speaker 1: that's a total coincidence because Joe Flacco is not running
Speaker 1: that Joe Burrow offense.
Speaker 2: And I I.
Speaker 1: Don't want to start a controversy here, but if you
Speaker 1: look at the efficiency numbers.
Speaker 3: Had a oh I did Joe.
Speaker 1: Flacco Bengals offense was like a little better than the
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow They were both very good, to be clear, But.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Joe Flaco offense said they ran the ball better.
Speaker 2: But that's that's my scheme, little point. Will they actually
Speaker 2: do that? It'll be interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's like the only time, one of the few times
Speaker 3: I've gotten like a definite, like a very very definitive
Speaker 3: no that didn't sound like a no on a story
Speaker 3: pitch that I've pitched to a pr person is me
Speaker 3: pitching the story and then him looking at me for
Speaker 3: a long minute and saying, I'll pray on it, so.
Speaker 2: That is you will pray on it.
Speaker 3: That is Joe Burrow, I'll pray on it. We'll see.
Speaker 3: I'll figure, we'll see once I get out there. Maybe
Speaker 3: I just want to be in the gun. That's the
Speaker 3: thing I hoped you brought up, because the other thing
Speaker 3: that kind of drive has driven me crazy about the
Speaker 3: Bengals is they have so much talent. We know the
Speaker 3: Jamar Chase factor. That's an omen and a sign. That
Speaker 3: was the first pass from scrimmage here out of Bengals
Speaker 3: camp I saw on social media, and this is a
Speaker 3: a Joe Burrow passed to Jamar Chase that was effective.
Speaker 2: Not when he started the fight with TJ.
Speaker 3: No that was effective. I don't know if that's not good,
Speaker 3: not that omen inside. I don't know what to think
Speaker 3: about that one. But this is a thirty percent twelve
Speaker 3: personnel rate team, right. The problem that I have with
Speaker 3: this is that when you run twelve personnel today and
Speaker 3: last year in this league, and in this year and
Speaker 3: probably the season after that too, both of your tight
Speaker 3: ends have to be a threat in not just the
Speaker 3: passing game, but in another way too. Or they have
Speaker 3: to compliment each other in order to build those threats together.
Speaker 3: So you've got Mike Gasicki, who did miss time last year,
Speaker 3: and he's like one of the worst yards after the
Speaker 3: catch tight ends in the NFL. And then they've gotten
Speaker 3: and his names just gaving me their blocking tight end.
Speaker 3: And these guys are not first of all, being utilized
Speaker 3: in the ways that we're seeing twelve personnel be incredibly
Speaker 3: effective as true as a true mismatch combination. Mike Kasiki
Speaker 3: is a great pass catcher and very explosive when he
Speaker 3: has the chance. Yeah, the thing that I would like
Speaker 3: to see if they're going to do this and build
Speaker 3: dimension into their offense is it's a very very small,
Speaker 3: nitpicky thing, but build more like yards after the catch
Speaker 3: potential yards after the catch plays and guys that can
Speaker 3: actually do that to add more efficiency and to get
Speaker 3: you guys ahead of the sticks on especially second down,
Speaker 3: where they were one of the worst teams in the
Speaker 3: NFL run and pass last year, and so that getting
Speaker 3: those after the catch plays going on early downs really
Speaker 3: really helps with your overall efficiency and makes this offense
Speaker 3: more stable long term. I know it's a nit pick,
Speaker 3: but I just I don't I see they are like, well,
Speaker 3: we have this player, and it's like, well, there's more
Speaker 3: you can do with twelve personnel than just this.
Speaker 1: They are quite deep in the tight end room, which
Speaker 1: I like on paper. Tanner Hudson's played a lot for them.
Speaker 1: Jew sample is who you're thinking about, who've been there
Speaker 1: forever kind of.
Speaker 2: I've made it.
Speaker 3: I had a sample size pun and I didn't even
Speaker 3: use it.
Speaker 1: But eric Al was a fourth round pick two years
Speaker 1: ago that looked like he was really going to be
Speaker 1: like a complete good tight end. Then suffered a tough
Speaker 1: injury and it was tough for him to come back
Speaker 1: last year. So they do have options. You know, they
Speaker 1: still have andre Yoshavash as their third receiver. I'm just
Speaker 1: pointing out, like it's a very deep offense. It's not
Speaker 1: just those three guys. I love Chase Brown, who who's
Speaker 1: going for a new contract. You mentioned the linebackers earlier.
Speaker 1: That's my answer for things go wrong. If Demetrius Knight
Speaker 1: and Barrett Carter are the names of the rookies last
Speaker 1: year that were the worst linebacker combination in the league,
Speaker 1: this defense was lost in general, they're just counting on
Speaker 1: coaching and development. I was shocked they didn't do more
Speaker 1: this offseas to help that position specifically. I think it's
Speaker 1: a pretty good roster. Otherwise they have Orn Burks who's
Speaker 1: played a lot of NFL football. But if your linebackers
Speaker 1: are getting cooked week after week, you're kind of doa
Speaker 1: as a defense. So that's where I go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's two things that I like this team a
Speaker 3: lot on paper, and I think it's an explosive, high
Speaker 3: ceiling offense potential, right, But they're counting on two things,
Speaker 3: and that's my things go wrong if you're counting on
Speaker 3: the wrong things to go right for you, which is
Speaker 3: a that your scheme and your teaching and your players
Speaker 3: have evolved, or they're going to take the next step
Speaker 3: forward in a way that makes sense, that is functional
Speaker 3: for the entire group, that puts everyone in the best
Speaker 3: position to play, and not just the quarterback, although that
Speaker 3: matters too. And then are you overly depending on the
Speaker 3: fact that just people are getting healthy again, And that
Speaker 3: to me is a big question. Their camp, their field
Speaker 3: stuff just started today, right, so we just don't know
Speaker 3: what we don't know yet. But for me, things go
Speaker 3: wrong if they've depended too much on the wrong things.
Speaker 1: One minute, they've also gotten a repation as well. We
Speaker 1: fix the offensive line. When I watch you know, I
Speaker 1: know on paper, Amarus Mims is a good right tackle,
Speaker 1: Orlando Brown. They've paid a lot of money to that.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's great. They are coming all
Speaker 1: back for the right and the but the interior lines,
Speaker 1: like when I watch him, I don't think of I
Speaker 1: don't think they perform like a great offensive line. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's partly because of what we talked about with Burrow.
Speaker 1: It's not helping out the running game and it's just
Speaker 1: a pass past past offense. I gotta I gotta see it.
Speaker 1: And yet, when I think about the ceiling of this team,
Speaker 1: do you think ceiling floor that they can be one
Speaker 1: of the teams that win the Super Bowl? The weird
Speaker 1: thing is, well, I'll let you answer first.
Speaker 3: Well, I feel like you wanted to answer very badly.
Speaker 3: I do feel I feel like they are one of
Speaker 3: the teams that can get to the super Bowl. I
Speaker 3: feel like I see their schedule and I see this
Speaker 3: division how we likes, just strange it is. And I
Speaker 3: see that their quarterback and what he can do, and
Speaker 3: the again, like I mentioned, the explosive ceiling, if they
Speaker 3: can just be like middle third. Defensively, I think this
Speaker 3: offense takes them a lot farther.
Speaker 2: Sure, and then what's the floor?
Speaker 3: Then, oh, same as we've been seeing, you know, and
Speaker 3: certainly like injury or not, you know, everyone they're doing
Speaker 3: the same thing. You know, it's not working. The defense
Speaker 3: is getting carved apart.
Speaker 1: Because they I mean, they won six games last year.
Speaker 1: That was pretty low.
Speaker 3: It's a huge variance team. I compare it to some
Speaker 3: of these There are a few teams that I think
Speaker 3: have extraordinary variants from what their ceiling is and what
Speaker 3: their floor is, and I think the Bengals are one
Speaker 3: of them.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: And yet the last three years they have not won
Speaker 1: ten games in any of those seasons. Pretty crazy with
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow, and you'd be like, oh, Joe Burrow's been hurt.
Speaker 1: They've been pretty close to a five hundred team. I think,
Speaker 1: just over it when Joe Burrow starts. They do have
Speaker 1: one of the best backup quarterbacks in the league right now.
Speaker 1: Flacco is still playing at a high level. He's going
Speaker 1: to have a second year in that system.
Speaker 3: So till you're starting this controversy up.
Speaker 1: To me, their floor is more like nine to eight,
Speaker 1: which is where they were twenty three and twenty four.
Speaker 1: They you know, they had a winning record at least,
Speaker 1: and yeah, they're ceiling. I can't I can't see them
Speaker 1: winning the super Bowl because they're the Bengals.
Speaker 3: I could making it to it though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, I'm gonna put them in the
Speaker 1: conference championship. I'm sorry, that's that's your ceiling. You're gonna
Speaker 1: get there and you're gonna be like, we have a
Speaker 1: chance to win the super Bowl. But then you'll think
Speaker 1: back to this episode and think, Nope, it's all going
Speaker 1: to end right here.
Speaker 2: To me, that's I think.
Speaker 3: Man, I really wish that Jordan threw out her Drew sample.
Speaker 3: Pun I what was it for another time? Greg?
Speaker 2: I mean, you've brought it up twice.
Speaker 3: We're onto the Browns.
Speaker 2: We're not. We're going to take a quick break and
Speaker 2: then we'll be onto the bread.
Speaker 1: Back on NFL Daily, the much rumored, much anticipated, much
Speaker 1: talked about preview of the Cleveland Browns. What's bringing you joy? No,
Speaker 1: you're not getting joy.
Speaker 3: What is bringing me? Cautious optimism is a better framing
Speaker 3: of my boundaries. I'm in therapy. Cautious optimism for me. Yes,
Speaker 3: the offensive line is pretty much all new again, but
Speaker 3: I think it's maybe on a better track this time
Speaker 3: than is certainly what they tried to do last year.
Speaker 3: And I think that there's some young talent that I
Speaker 3: really like and fused in there. I was really high
Speaker 3: on Spencer Fanno. I think he's going to be a
Speaker 3: really great player. Titus Howard is the other tackle, hopefully
Speaker 3: he takes a step forward, and Zion Johnson who had
Speaker 3: a really rough time of it in Los Angeles with
Speaker 3: the Chargers before coming over to the Browns. They're hoping
Speaker 3: a fresh start is really good for him. And Tevin
Speaker 3: Jenkins is the other guard and Elgton, which I can
Speaker 3: never say the first time. Jenkins is the new center.
Speaker 3: The thing about this and four of the five spots
Speaker 3: are new, and yes Elkton Jenkins has had some injury
Speaker 3: history as well. Coming over from the Packers. They did
Speaker 3: bring a rookie fifth rounder, Parker Brailsford, who is the
Speaker 3: starter at Alabama, which I always like. I always like
Speaker 3: when you've got sort of like a veteran experience starter,
Speaker 3: even if you're getting him in the later rounds, and
Speaker 3: they needed to infuse some depth in here. They're kind
Speaker 3: of going with this like young wait till next year
Speaker 3: kind of vibe internally, and so I think that this
Speaker 3: is very much indicative of that. And I'd like to
Speaker 3: see them improve, and I am cautiously optimistic that they
Speaker 3: will over the course.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they got way too old on the offensive line
Speaker 1: last year. Look Zion Johnson. The Chargers were happy enough
Speaker 1: about him that they gave him a monster contract offer
Speaker 1: to come back. So I think he timed his best
Speaker 1: play well. And there the Browns I think are rightly
Speaker 1: high on this offensive line. Good trick here for Elton Jenkins.
Speaker 1: The G silent I'll just ignore it.
Speaker 3: Well, I can't ignore it because it's a L and
Speaker 3: a G and that's in my brain.
Speaker 1: It's just right there in the middle of the word.
Speaker 1: It's very complicated.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to type it like Elton john to
Speaker 3: get this right.
Speaker 2: It took me like five years.
Speaker 1: I think it was hearing some Packers announcer that just
Speaker 1: and then I looked it up.
Speaker 2: It was like, oh, the G silent love, I love it.
Speaker 1: You want to move in silence on you, like like
Speaker 1: the GM lasagna, Little Wayne. Yeah, the youth is what's
Speaker 1: bringing me joy. Aaron Schotz did a ranking of the
Speaker 1: best teams for under twenty five talent. Cleveland Brown's top five,
Speaker 1: and I buy it. Harold Fannon coming off surgery at
Speaker 1: tight end, but he's already practicing. Quen John Juggins also
Speaker 1: got hurt, so there is some Browns curse here, but
Speaker 1: loved Juggins coming. Carson Schwesterner like could have an incredible
Speaker 1: career based on his rookie season. I love the on
Speaker 1: paper the draft, although we'll see you know, Casey Conception
Speaker 1: and Denzel Boston are fun at receiver. It's a lot
Speaker 1: of good young talent That kind of leads me right too,
Speaker 1: because it's all connected that like Schwestender or Spencer fan
Speaker 1: of the left tackle are my two most important n quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you had one of those and
Speaker 1: then I wouldn't talk about him.
Speaker 3: No, I like, I like that. I would love to
Speaker 3: hear more.
Speaker 1: Of your thoughts because Fano it's left tackle. They had
Speaker 1: their choice of the entire draft on the offensive line.
Speaker 1: That's where they decided to go and if they get
Speaker 1: that pick right. As good as their rookie class was
Speaker 1: last year, it was almost exclusively at the non premium positions.
Speaker 1: Now you throw a left tackle in the mix that's
Speaker 1: a legit guy, and hopefully one or two of these
Speaker 1: receivers work out, then you really have something for their
Speaker 1: quarterback of the future. And I don't want to repeat
Speaker 1: what I said listened to the under twenty five team
Speaker 1: we did was shook earlier. But Questionner has a chance
Speaker 1: to be like a franchise pick. And I don't want
Speaker 1: to put you don't want to put that on someone
Speaker 1: right away, but can he be like a defining player.
Speaker 1: There's a difference, I think between having a good rookie
Speaker 1: season that he did really good and becoming that guy.
Speaker 1: So it's just doing it again and doing it at
Speaker 1: a higher level.
Speaker 3: That's where my most important non quarterback I went again
Speaker 3: here with the coach, and that's Mike Rutenberg of the
Speaker 3: Rutenberg Bible. I feel like it's it's just such huge
Speaker 3: shoes to fill. It's a really tough job to take
Speaker 3: on following the really messy departure of Jim Schwartz, and
Speaker 3: I think what he can do best is really lean
Speaker 3: into the things that already worked, and he's got new personnel.
Speaker 3: Miles Garrett has obviously been traded, Jared versus is there
Speaker 3: Jared versus an outstanding young talent who's really going to
Speaker 3: anchor one side of that offensive line. It's going to
Speaker 3: be an Alex Wright and Isaiah Maguire combination. Probably on
Speaker 3: the other side, Malik Collins should be back. Like this
Speaker 3: looks on paper like this could be a Yes rebuilt. No,
Speaker 3: it's not, Miles Garrett Less. It's like, you know, flipping
Speaker 3: on a light bulb versus turning on the surface of
Speaker 3: the sun. But this is like, this has real potential.
Speaker 3: With Sweatchinger in the back, you're not worried about cleaning
Speaker 3: up the table for the linebackers as much with what
Speaker 3: you do up front. And then they've got some real
Speaker 3: talent in the defensive backfield. Denzel Ward gets paid, Grant
Speaker 3: Delpit gets paid. I know you guys covered that on
Speaker 3: the news show. And Emmanuel McNeil Warren the safety out
Speaker 3: of Toledo. I really liked him in the draft. So
Speaker 3: it just all fits kind of the architecture that already existed.
Speaker 3: He has a similar he comes from, like a similar
Speaker 3: scheme rules in terms of his coverages that Jim Schwartz did.
Speaker 3: They like covering up the middle of the field, they
Speaker 3: like really playing aggressively and really complimenting in that way
Speaker 3: with the front and I just he just needs to
Speaker 3: not try to do too much. Just just let these
Speaker 3: guys develop and play to their strengths.
Speaker 1: I always worry about that, and and sometimes it works.
Speaker 1: The coach that comes in, it's like, we're not going
Speaker 1: to change everything. Where ethan inheriting like almost an elite situation.
Speaker 1: But then I think about guys like Josh Grizzard last year,
Speaker 1: like who was trying to do that a lot of
Speaker 1: times when he tried to just like hold on to
Speaker 1: what happened before. It's tough because you're not just losing
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett. You're losing Miles Garrett and Jim Schwartz. And
Speaker 1: that's that's why things go go wrong. If because the
Speaker 1: defense is talented, I think Quincy Williams could have like
Speaker 1: a pop up good year, like rebounding next to the
Speaker 1: Swessenger as like a guy who just does crazy stuff.
Speaker 2: You're laughing because I killed Quincy Williams all last year.
Speaker 3: Yes, that, but also I'm like, I don't even know
Speaker 3: if I should tell you what my things go wrong?
Speaker 3: Is continue not tell me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because part of them collapsing on defense, and defense
Speaker 1: is unpredictable. Is like, if it doesn't go well, like
Speaker 1: they could start trading guys, you know, and they're just
Speaker 1: that team. We haven't even talked about the quarterback situation,
Speaker 1: but it's Shitter Sanders and Deshaun Watson, two guys who
Speaker 1: no one expects to be the quarterback next year. And
Speaker 1: so like, if the defense is let's say twentieth in
Speaker 1: the NFL for the first six or seven weeks, they're
Speaker 1: probably one and six at that point.
Speaker 2: And then do.
Speaker 3: You not think are happy happy about that? I don't
Speaker 3: think they're trading players at that point? Do you not
Speaker 3: think they're happy about that? My things go wrong if
Speaker 3: as if they play too well.
Speaker 2: It's like the schedule could help them, can help them out.
Speaker 3: And then look at and this goes to some First
Speaker 3: of all, I think the defense is going to be
Speaker 3: good still, and then the scheme dream part for me
Speaker 3: is I love all the move players all over this offense.
Speaker 3: It's kind of awesome. They've got some holes still. I'm
Speaker 3: looking at you know, their receivers is still you know,
Speaker 3: a little bit thin in parts. It's partially rebuilt with
Speaker 3: Casey conception on and Denzil Boston, Jerry Judy is still there.
Speaker 3: I'm still looking to see who steps in and kind
Speaker 3: of fills out that complimentary room the way that they
Speaker 3: want to. Dylan Samson, the second running back, second stream
Speaker 3: running back, was actually the number one running back in
Speaker 3: screen EPA last season. And this is like a Harold
Speaker 3: fannin all these receivers build layers and textures and can
Speaker 3: move into different positions at once, and there's motion and
Speaker 3: there's formation changes, and like, I like it.
Speaker 1: It's not a bad roster that Andrew Berry's put together,
Speaker 1: minus the quarterbacks. The questions, right, it's like can the
Speaker 1: young players keep it up? And can the wide receiver
Speaker 1: room somehow sort out? And yet you have four or
Speaker 1: five guys if you count Isaiah Bond and Cidric Tillman
Speaker 1: as guys like who could contribute. Bill Simmons was on
Speaker 1: mina Shower earlier this week and threw them out as
Speaker 1: like a potential playoff team, and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: I've not heard anyone say that. But if you were
Speaker 1: looking for a stunning surprise, like I always look to
Speaker 1: the lines first as who could be a surprising team,
Speaker 1: And there are routes to these lines. Yeah, being quite effective.
Speaker 1: I don't see it. I don't think that's how it's
Speaker 1: going to go in the end. But they're a little
Speaker 1: more talented than some of the bottom dwellers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I wouldn't normally do this, but with the Browns,
Speaker 3: I think you have to because you have to look
Speaker 3: at next season with them. I think they've made that
Speaker 3: very clear with some of the moves that they've made,
Speaker 3: and then really accentuating the draft the last two drafts
Speaker 3: as a total rebuild, of almost total rebuild, they kept,
Speaker 3: you know, they obviously kept some like pillars quote unquote,
Speaker 3: but so far they have eleven first round picks in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty seven. Again, I would not bring this up
Speaker 3: this early, but this is kind of what they're looking
Speaker 3: at too. The two first rounders are there, but it's
Speaker 3: really interesting they don't so far have twos or threes,
Speaker 3: so it's almost like it next year yet. And so
Speaker 3: if you really are gonna maybe play too well and
Speaker 3: play yourself out of quarterback contention, what you actually need
Speaker 3: other than those two first is actually the twos and
Speaker 3: threes to bundle into short term capital gain for the team.
Speaker 3: That's trading their first round pick to you to move up.
Speaker 3: So this is a very delicate and strange tightrope that
Speaker 3: they're walking. I think I'm assuming they're going to be
Speaker 3: better than they were last year, and that's why I'm
Speaker 3: sort of talking about it like this. But it's like
Speaker 3: that is a really funny place to be. Is hey,
Speaker 3: your roster kind of looks like it's got some juice
Speaker 3: to it at this point, and could you maybe have
Speaker 3: backed yourself into the wrong corner here?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: And Todd Mounkin is the new head coach there, and
Speaker 1: can he provide a schematic advantage? I think he's overall
Speaker 1: been an effective, inventive offensive coordinator, had some great years
Speaker 1: with Lamar Jackson. Fell apart a little last year, but
Speaker 1: overall was good, great there. It's just it's just the quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: Like the talk about bad omens. The first play of
Speaker 1: h brownstraining Camp or no, this wasn't a first play,
Speaker 1: but within the first practice of brownstraining Camp, Watson through
Speaker 1: interceptions on back to back place and that's just.
Speaker 2: It says where he's at.
Speaker 1: I assume should Sanders is going to play more football
Speaker 1: than Deshaun Watson. I think Shouldar Sanders has a chance
Speaker 1: to carve out a solid NFL career, and this would
Speaker 1: be the year to really make it happen and improve
Speaker 1: as a second.
Speaker 3: Year player I have I'm on the record on this
Speaker 3: show talking about how I'm higher I think than some
Speaker 3: on the upside of him long term of Shouldar Sanders.
Speaker 3: I also don't ever underestimate the pride and some of
Speaker 3: the ego that goes into trying to make a contract work,
Speaker 3: even if it's a late you know, a late effort.
Speaker 3: And I would not be surprised if this is not
Speaker 3: reported or whatever, but that just my vibe. Reed, I
Speaker 3: would not be surprised if we see Deshaun Watson, then
Speaker 3: they just try to make it work the entire season.
Speaker 1: I am hoping for Browns fans for myself, who you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a hater that just Deshaun Watson gives them no
Speaker 1: choice but to benjam to not play him in the.
Speaker 3: Foot would before he would have before last time he
Speaker 3: took the field right.
Speaker 1: And I even mean like in camp like this, and
Speaker 1: that's where you love football, because if he plays at
Speaker 1: the level. Some of the reporters who've been watching him
Speaker 1: this offseason have indicated and that he's played last time
Speaker 1: he had a chance, Like they can want to see
Speaker 1: if it's gonna work out, but he might give them
Speaker 1: the answer, and just watching him for three weeks be like,
Speaker 1: we can't play this guy. We actually maybe just feel good.
Speaker 1: Let's get rid of him before the season even starts.
Speaker 1: Give the Browns fans some you know, they'll just feel
Speaker 1: lighter if that happens.
Speaker 3: Well, we've been saying this for years.
Speaker 1: I know, but I'm just saying, if he was awful,
Speaker 1: maybe you just roll with shitter and then Dylan Gabriel
Speaker 1: is your is your backup? Well, I hope little lan
Speaker 1: yapp here. That's just when we give some the extra
Speaker 1: there en percentage. The century is three forty three, three
Speaker 1: forty three. The next closest worst team in the NFL
Speaker 1: is the over the you know, twenty first centuries, the Raiders,
Speaker 1: but they're at three ninety something.
Speaker 2: That's a huge gap.
Speaker 1: Like the difference between them and the Raiders is like
Speaker 1: the difference between the Raiders and like the twentieth team
Speaker 1: in the NFL. Oh, my lord, ceiling floor you indicated.
Speaker 1: I think that they're ceiling maybe is a little higher
Speaker 1: than people think.
Speaker 3: So I actually I was looking at their schedule and
Speaker 3: I actually saw seven possible, possible, possible wins. But you know,
Speaker 3: I have no proof. I have no proof that they're
Speaker 3: going to do better than expected or even at expected.
Speaker 3: And you know, I say this with you know a
Speaker 3: lot of empathy for Browns fans who have just been
Speaker 3: waiting to be a quarterback away for a long time
Speaker 3: and had to deal with the blow of the trade,
Speaker 3: and you know, you know all of the different sort
Speaker 3: of strategy shifts that this team has done over the
Speaker 3: last couple of years. But I just can't. I cannot.
Speaker 3: I have to hedge it with possible until I actually
Speaker 3: see that it could be probably.
Speaker 1: Lord number one overall pick. Yeah, okay, so you think
Speaker 1: they could be that bad. I think it's a similar
Speaker 1: ceiling because of the schedule. I don't think it's that
Speaker 1: hard to win six seven games in the NFL.
Speaker 2: It's I think it's.
Speaker 3: Over famously you think this, and I would disagree with you.
Speaker 1: I mean, the numbers just on a logistics level, I
Speaker 1: mean the numbers.
Speaker 2: Tell me I'm right.
Speaker 1: Basically eighty five percent of the league does it every year.
Speaker 3: Not the numbers, Greg, it's the way you say it.
Speaker 1: It's not that hard to win six or seven games.
Speaker 1: It's been hard for the Browns, But I think I
Speaker 1: agree with you. I do think there's a path where
Speaker 1: they get to six seven wins. But yeah, the floor's
Speaker 1: three in picking high Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3: Ooh spicy.
Speaker 1: I think they're a variants team too, Yeah, major way.
Speaker 1: I do think there's a higher ceiling for them. They
Speaker 1: bring back Aaron Rodgers for one last rodeo hashtag last rodeo.
Speaker 2: They bring back Mike.
Speaker 1: McCarthy for one last rodeo, and he just seems so
Speaker 1: prized and delighted and emotional. The Pittsburgh kid comes home.
Speaker 1: And they bring back a lot of talent on both
Speaker 1: sides in terms of their line play. They pick up
Speaker 1: Michael Pittman in the off season. What is bringing you
Speaker 1: joy about a team that didn't bring me a lot
Speaker 1: of joy last year?
Speaker 3: Frankly, Yeah, well I like them first of all this year.
Speaker 3: Second of all, what really brought me joy was Aaron
Speaker 3: Rodgers opening up the week talking about how playing more
Speaker 3: under center will help them on early downs and getting
Speaker 3: the play action going. Now, this man was in shotgun
Speaker 3: on almost sixty eight percent of his snaps last season,
Speaker 3: And what brought me joy was picturing Green Bay Packers
Speaker 3: head coach Matt Lafleur reading that, reading that clip or
Speaker 3: watching that clip on his phone and just that just
Speaker 3: throwing his face, trying to tell him. I tried to
Speaker 3: tell him all those.
Speaker 2: Years, but he did it. Like back with Green Bay
Speaker 2: that led to the best.
Speaker 3: But it was such a I did a partial partially
Speaker 3: did a documentary series on it. It was like such
Speaker 3: a compromise. Wers like play play by play, what do
Speaker 3: you like? What do I like? What do you like?
Speaker 2: What do I like?
Speaker 3: Under center, play action, run past play action, those bootlegs,
Speaker 3: the long developing boots have always been a part of
Speaker 3: Mike McCarthy's system. That's bringing me a little joy. We're
Speaker 3: going to see the modern throwback version of this guy,
Speaker 3: who I just don't think ever gets enough credit in
Speaker 3: terms of his influence on the league and how we
Speaker 3: play football today. I'm curious if he will adjust to
Speaker 3: certain things. More on that in a later section. But
Speaker 3: those two, the combination of that's bringing me joy.
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right of how he in New Orleans was
Speaker 1: a very influential, young, hot shot offensive coordinator and then
Speaker 1: helped change the league, and I think he has adapted
Speaker 1: more based on his personnel, and that's what's important. It's
Speaker 1: not about the scheme. It's about like fitting your players
Speaker 1: to the scheme. And so I am curious how this
Speaker 1: one is going to look. And that is what's bringing
Speaker 1: me joy is just McCarthy's offseason, utter surprise, utter joy
Speaker 1: at the time of his life where he can openly appreciate.
Speaker 1: I can't freaking believe I got this job and that
Speaker 1: I sold the Rooneys, And I think he believes it
Speaker 1: in his heart, and I think the Rooneys believe it
Speaker 1: in his heart that actually.
Speaker 2: We weren't that far away, Like the talent is there.
Speaker 1: I don't actually think it's that crazy a notion they
Speaker 1: if they had Rock Bertie at quarterback, I would be like,
Speaker 1: this can be a contender Capital C. I've got my
Speaker 1: major doubts about Aaron Rodgers, and yet the rest of
Speaker 1: the roster and the McCarthy hire even like they needed
Speaker 1: someone new, and even though it's McCarthy, I think they
Speaker 1: actually might get a benefit from seeing things a different way.
Speaker 2: Who is your most important on quarterback?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Famously, As I told you before the show started,
Speaker 3: had a hard time picking because there's a lot of
Speaker 3: players who I think are going to majorly contribute to this.
Speaker 2: Team famously to who to you, okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, famous, just to me famously, Okay, we're in a vacuum,
Speaker 3: and I wanted to save Patrick Graham for my scheme
Speaker 3: dream because I'm really excited about Patrick.
Speaker 2: Just combine them here, Combine them.
Speaker 3: Fine, fine, greg Patrick Graham, and the combination of this
Speaker 3: front structure, specifically Nick Herbig, who was my lead candidate
Speaker 3: for most important non quarterback, just because I think he
Speaker 3: should play more. Patrick Graham and this defense. I'm so
Speaker 3: curious what he's going to do with this front structure
Speaker 3: because yes, we know he's got the three edge rushers,
Speaker 3: Nick Herbig, aforementioned Nick Herbig, Alex Heismith and TJ. Watt.
Speaker 3: And Nick Herbig just got paid the four year, hundred
Speaker 3: million dollar deal despite playing two hundred less snaps than
Speaker 3: TJ Watt.
Speaker 1: Despite DJ Watt missing a big jung of the season, yes,
Speaker 1: like at the end of the year, and it couldn't
Speaker 1: even get him on the field.
Speaker 2: That was famous.
Speaker 3: Famously on this show. The thing about Patrick Graham that
Speaker 3: was a it's such a gift when he can do
Speaker 3: it the way he wants to do it. But it
Speaker 3: became such a dead weight to him in Las Vegas
Speaker 3: was that he's like really genuinely excellent at shaping his
Speaker 3: scheme to his players. Like coaches say this, you just
Speaker 3: said it. Coaches say it all the time. We want
Speaker 3: to evolve our scheme to our players. We want to
Speaker 3: do what maximizes our players. He actually does not ascribe
Speaker 3: to a specific system, although he comes from Belichick. He
Speaker 3: has some Floras in their Spagnolo in there too, but
Speaker 3: he doesn't say he comes from a specific playbook or
Speaker 3: system that he has to teach. It's instead very much
Speaker 3: player based. It's very teachable, it's very like uploadable for players,
Speaker 3: and he's very specific with them. He is not afraid
Speaker 3: to all out blitz. He's not afraid to fake like
Speaker 3: he's all out blitzing and then dropping everybody. He's not
Speaker 3: afraid to design like this crazy fastball pressure. He's not
Speaker 3: afraid of move players. I think players like Joey Porter
Speaker 3: Junior when he's back, Jalen Ramsey when he's back. You know,
Speaker 3: Jamel Dean is here now, Jaquan Brisker is here now.
Speaker 3: So we talked about the front, but this coverage structure
Speaker 3: I think could be so exciting and so so interesting.
Speaker 3: Don't think too hard about the middle of the field,
Speaker 3: but everywhere else. I just think Patrick Graham could absolutely
Speaker 3: design some like Brian Flora's level. Where's talking about cool,
Speaker 3: magical stuff through the course of the season. That's my
Speaker 3: hope and my ceiling for what that defense can look like.
Speaker 1: You texted me at eight fifteen this morning, got really
Speaker 1: excited about Patrick Graham this morning.
Speaker 2: We are so back. I'm with you.
Speaker 1: If I had to describe Patrick Graham's scheme over the years,
Speaker 1: it would probably be do stuff like, we're gonna do
Speaker 1: some stuff, some stuff, we're not gonna not do stuff,
Speaker 1: and it's often very different.
Speaker 2: It can change based on the week.
Speaker 1: I think that's the Belichick Flora's influence, but you're right
Speaker 1: that it's not always like the same year after year,
Speaker 1: even the middle of the season. He's an interesting coach
Speaker 1: to watch, and I think this is the most talent
Speaker 1: he's had, maybe ever. Yeah, he was back with the Giants.
Speaker 1: They had some back then, but I think this is
Speaker 1: probably the best team he's had. That leads to my
Speaker 1: most important on quarterback. Who's TJ. Watt, And I think TJ.
Speaker 1: Watt could benefit from Patrick Graham, Mike Tommins. Defense was
Speaker 1: very static, was very old fashioned. Tjwatt specifically, I think
Speaker 1: he didn't want to move. Yeah, but they listen to him.
Speaker 1: They are going to move TJ. Watt around. I think
Speaker 1: they'll rotate him more, which could benefit him. It really
Speaker 1: hurts your team build if you have a guy who's
Speaker 1: guaranteed mid thirty million dollars for the next two seasons
Speaker 1: and he's dragging wait a little bit. At the end
Speaker 1: of last season, he looked tired, looked a little injured.
Speaker 1: Was definitely their third best edge in terms of a
Speaker 1: pass rusher. Still effective early in the year, but not
Speaker 1: the same TJ.
Speaker 2: Watt.
Speaker 1: So he's just a big He's like larger than life.
Speaker 1: And if they can bring out like a late career TJ.
Speaker 1: Watt one of my most memorable seasons when I get
Speaker 1: inducted into the Hall of Fame, because he is going
Speaker 1: into the Hall of Fame, he has already had that career.
Speaker 1: But sometimes with those guys, it's like, oh, you thought
Speaker 1: they were declining and that at the end they show
Speaker 1: you a little more greatness when you weren't expecting it.
Speaker 2: That's this season, Colin am but not for me.
Speaker 3: No, I feel like that's part of that was part
Speaker 3: of my herbic note is like sometimes paying the other
Speaker 3: guy gets the best out of the first guy. And
Speaker 3: I think that that is super super important here, that
Speaker 3: little extra like you call it land yet, but like
Speaker 3: that motivation and all of those different things that really
Speaker 3: go into the and a fresh start, like a fresh
Speaker 3: new thing to learn and thing to try to explore
Speaker 3: and be curious about. I think that's really going to
Speaker 3: be important for him.
Speaker 2: And they're doing things differently the Beat reporting.
Speaker 1: I thought Mark Clole who writes for Pat McAfee, but
Speaker 1: he writes it on Twitter like just amazed, and everyone's
Speaker 1: so amazed about the attention to detail and how like
Speaker 1: organized practices and how they're doing.
Speaker 3: This that, and they're not tackling as hard in practice.
Speaker 1: They're not tackling at all in terms of life tackling
Speaker 1: like Tomlin was one of the last coaches that was
Speaker 1: still doing that, and you almost got the sense, you know,
Speaker 1: Toman had been there a long time, and I think
Speaker 1: changed sometimes just for change sakes is good. I will
Speaker 1: give you. In terms of my scheme. Dream a test here.
Speaker 1: If you can name can't look down. If you can
Speaker 1: name the Steelers offensive coordinator for the twenty twenty sixth season,
Speaker 1: I will get your next lunch at the huddle.
Speaker 3: Oh it's it's the guy who played for who was
Speaker 3: with him in It's rollicker ball. It's something that's like
Speaker 3: Clichio something.
Speaker 2: Okay, you got closer there.
Speaker 3: It's Ichyo something that's close. But he was his guy
Speaker 3: in Green Bay.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to give him to you. It's Brian Angelicio.
Speaker 3: Angelicio, I knew it. I was just like, man, I know, well,
Speaker 3: it's like a flourish, a little flourish.
Speaker 1: I have to admit, not familiar with that man and
Speaker 1: just curious, Yeah, what what we already talked about this Mike.
Speaker 1: It's really a Mike McCarthy offense. Certainly, how he works
Speaker 1: with quarterbacks and their drops and the details is really.
Speaker 2: His signature.
Speaker 1: And yet, uh, you look and they drafted Jeremy Bernard
Speaker 1: in the second round to be their third receiver. They
Speaker 1: trade for Michael Pittman DK Metcalf. Can we get him
Speaker 1: going down the field a little more? You have our
Speaker 1: guy Mount Washington, Darnel Washington, how they're gonna use him
Speaker 1: in Friarmouth.
Speaker 2: Does that change?
Speaker 1: You lost Kenny Gainwell at running back, but you did
Speaker 1: bring in a bruiser and rico' daddle behind Jalen Warren.
Speaker 1: There's enough talent here, especially adding pittman Man. I think
Speaker 1: a really solid too, But there's not a lot of explosiveness. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so this team's going to have to I think
Speaker 1: work hard to score, and I think they need to
Speaker 1: get more out of DK Metcalf being explosive because he
Speaker 1: can be.
Speaker 3: That was my things go wrong if I think that's
Speaker 3: a really great point that you brought up, because they
Speaker 3: felt like like that posture you have after you get
Speaker 3: your laptop too long, Like that's what their offense felt like.
Speaker 3: And I'm you're, yeah, this is an audio medium, but
Speaker 3: I'm doing it. They're getting on the YouTube, they're.
Speaker 1: Getting that little bump now on their neck that a
Speaker 1: lot of kids are getting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the little yeah iPhone face or whatever it's called.
Speaker 3: I don't know, we're getting off track here. I think
Speaker 3: that this they also had to live in the world
Speaker 3: where they created some of those explosives that they did
Speaker 3: get on yards after the catch plays. This was an
Speaker 3: Aaron Rodgers world where he just wanted to get the
Speaker 3: ball out. He was still probably not feeling very good,
Speaker 3: you know, with his feet and his knee, and just
Speaker 3: was needed to try to just get those quick outs.
Speaker 3: Kenneth Gainwell, who's not there anymore, was the player who
Speaker 3: really capitalized on that for them. I think Jalen Warren
Speaker 3: is going to be still really effective in the passing game.
Speaker 3: So I'm curious because I do think Pittman becomes more
Speaker 3: of that inside move player, like that power slot kind
Speaker 3: of vibe where he's going. We can see how he
Speaker 3: runs after the catch. He's a tough player. He can
Speaker 3: turn out some of those extra yards. So that's fine there,
Speaker 3: But how are the otherwise are they going to create explosives?
Speaker 3: What are they going to do with maybe not three
Speaker 3: receivers that they want to use, like the way that
Speaker 3: Mike McCarthy typically has. Maybe a combination of the running
Speaker 3: back and the tight end as your third receiver. Maybe
Speaker 3: you play with some formation. We talked about the play action,
Speaker 3: which should help their explosives if they actually do it.
Speaker 3: I want to see Dk Metcalf get down the field
Speaker 3: like he wants.
Speaker 1: To do, right, I think things go wrong if I
Speaker 1: had a couple answers, but like, if they play offense
Speaker 1: the way they did a year, I don't think how
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers played last year is sustainable. Maybe get you
Speaker 1: to nine and eight if your defense is playing well.
Speaker 1: But he has to hold onto the ball a little longer.
Speaker 1: He has to be willing to go down the field.
Speaker 1: It might have been personnel, scheme, whatever, but he has
Speaker 1: to play different. I also think things go wrong if
Speaker 1: the secondary, which to me is incredible variance. I think
Speaker 1: this is a variants team. You mentioned Jalen Ramsey, like,
Speaker 1: he's an up and down player. He's starting this year injured.
Speaker 1: Jaquan Brisker is a massive hitter, but he's an injury risk.
Speaker 1: Jameel Dean's career has been a little up and down.
Speaker 1: Deshaun Elliott's there and kind of revived himself. He's a
Speaker 1: little up and down. I think Joey Porter Junior is good,
Speaker 1: but he's kind of a like a he runs hot.
Speaker 1: So this is very in city. It could be an
Speaker 1: awesome secondary, Like things could go very wrong. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: kind of see that with this team in general. I
Speaker 1: think their ceiling is a little higher than people think
Speaker 1: sounds like you.
Speaker 3: Agree yes and no, because when I thought about it
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I have too many
Speaker 3: questions still about the quarterback and the style of ball
Speaker 3: that the quarterback will play. This is like a data
Speaker 3: gathering team for me because I believe that the defense
Speaker 3: is going to be so fun. I agree with that variant,
Speaker 3: but I think that Patrick Graham's defense almost manipulates or
Speaker 3: uses variants to his advantage, helps him become like not
Speaker 3: super easy to scout, like you mentioned at the week
Speaker 3: to week game plans, those types of things. I was
Speaker 3: talking to Quab one of our great producers on the show,
Speaker 3: and I was like, we were talking about his favorite
Speaker 3: teams of Steelers, and he was like, what do you
Speaker 3: think the ceiling in the floor is? And I was like,
Speaker 3: what do you think it is? And he goes either
Speaker 3: ten and seven or seven and ten, and I was like,
Speaker 3: that's the Steelers.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, that's where I'm at. That's a little depressing.
Speaker 1: So you don't see a path to winning the division.
Speaker 1: I actually think there's enough talent and I have an
Speaker 1: underline to hear enough on the offensive line, Max Ihanachor
Speaker 1: and the guards and Zach Frazier. I think there's enough
Speaker 1: talent on the offensive line and then the pass rush
Speaker 1: and Cam Hayward still on the defensive line. There's good
Speaker 1: talented bodies behind them. I think there's enough talent for
Speaker 1: them if things go really right and we're a little
Speaker 1: wrong about Rogers to win this division and have a
Speaker 1: genuinely like surprising, we're in the mix. I can't see
Speaker 1: them like, I can't see them going to the super
Speaker 1: Bowl or anything, but I could see them winning the division,
Speaker 1: winning a playoff game or something. I think the ceiling
Speaker 1: is higher than people are giving them credit for. I
Speaker 1: mentioned the variants between Rogers in the secondary. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: with you on seven and ten. It is kind of
Speaker 1: the floor for this team. That is it, except for
Speaker 1: our division predictions. In the end, how do you sort
Speaker 1: these four teams? I'll go first to give you a
Speaker 1: little time, I will put the Steelers third. Still, ultimately
Speaker 1: I think they land in the middle. I'm just giving
Speaker 1: myself some room to see that it's possible.
Speaker 3: But Eier takes right there.
Speaker 2: No, it just takes. It's how I feel.
Speaker 1: But I still do put the Bengals above them as
Speaker 1: the second place team.
Speaker 2: I do have the Ravens first, Browns last.
Speaker 3: I have the Ravens first. I think if the all
Speaker 3: goes well for the Ravens, that's a super Bowl team
Speaker 3: or potentially to be a super Bowl team. I've got
Speaker 3: the Bengals second. Again, such a high ceiling. This is
Speaker 3: like variant city here through most of the AFC North Steelers, third, Browns, Fourth.
Speaker 1: You already put three AFC West teams in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: so are you putting two in here?
Speaker 2: Three? We'll have our final playoff predictions.
Speaker 3: I get sweaty when you asked me to predict this.
Speaker 1: Because yeah, if you went like three here, then you're
Speaker 1: just not even possible mathematically.
Speaker 3: And I just then I just starts.
Speaker 1: You know what, I'll give you until the end of
Speaker 1: the month, we will do our official playoff predictions.
Speaker 2: Yea. Then, but we're lining up the time.
Speaker 3: I'm really looking forward to that.
Speaker 1: I know we have a great show coming up later
Speaker 1: on Thursday, just updating you on all the news. That
Speaker 1: will be myself and Jordan rodrieg I can't wait to
Speaker 1: see you. Then, all the teams are practicing, training camp
Speaker 1: is off and running time. Sometimes you start it and
Speaker 1: then you're like, I'm already done. We're through three divisions right.
Speaker 1: We also might have a little land yap in your
Speaker 1: feed later this week. Glad weekend. That'll be a little
Speaker 1: spress