Speaker 1: Hey everyone, and welcome back to On Purpose. This is
Speaker 1: a very very special episode. I had the opportunity to
Speaker 1: sit down with three hosts, and one of them has
Speaker 1: been on here before. Someone we all love and admire,
Speaker 1: an incredibly talented friend of mine. I'm a big fan
Speaker 1: of his new book, Man Enough, Undefining My Masculinity, where
Speaker 1: he helps readers think outside of the traditional definition of masculinity.
Speaker 1: He opens up to everyone, allows himself to be vulnerable,
Speaker 1: and admits that he is still working on healing himself. Everyone,
Speaker 1: please welcome back Justin Boldoni and someone who hopes his
Speaker 1: book will inspire other men to let themselves be vulnerable
Speaker 1: as well. This is one that I don't want you
Speaker 1: to miss. Can't wait for you to hear this conversation.
Speaker 1: There's some big reveals in this one. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: Man Enough podcast. Man Enough is a conversation about what
Speaker 1: it means to be a man today and undefining all
Speaker 1: of the stereotypical, traditional ideas of masculinity to make room
Speaker 1: for anybody who identifies as a man to be allowed
Speaker 1: to be a man. We want to create a world
Speaker 1: where there is more unity and equality, and that starts
Speaker 1: with uncomfortable conversations where we go deep and we are
Speaker 1: growing and learning in real time. We have not arrived,
Speaker 1: We're just beginning. Check us out at man enough dot
Speaker 1: com or you can like it and subscribe to us
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome back to
Speaker 1: man Enough. I'm Justin Baldoni here with the incredible list Plank,
Speaker 1: Jamie Heath, and the one and only, my dear friend
Speaker 1: mister Jay Shetty Dude. We're finally doing that. We're doing it.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Guys, you have you been
Speaker 1: on a podcast. I've never been on a podcast three
Speaker 1: co host, so this is not yours. This is special.
Speaker 1: This is very special. I just wanted this to be
Speaker 1: your first podcast, but he's never been on any podcast.
Speaker 1: This is This is the first time I've been on
Speaker 1: a podcast which has such a beautiful, clear purpose to
Speaker 1: help people redefine who they want to be in the world.
Speaker 1: And so it is the first time, and it's the
Speaker 1: first time that I'm being interviewed by Justin. I've had
Speaker 1: him on the podcast before, which has been really special.
Speaker 1: It's the first time we are meeting and Liz have
Speaker 1: been a huge fan of for like the last five years.
Speaker 1: I've just been name dropping all of her video names
Speaker 1: since we've met. And I'm so grateful to get to
Speaker 1: meet you today, Jamie. Indeed, thank you for having me,
Speaker 1: Thanks for being gotcha. You're just You're just special. You're
Speaker 1: a special man. It's like you meet people that you know,
Speaker 1: we're sent by God to with a purpose to just
Speaker 1: like make it a little better. And you're one of
Speaker 1: those people. You are a bestselling author, you are a
Speaker 1: former monk and a purpose coach. You're the host of
Speaker 1: an incredibly popular podcast on Purpose, Speaking of Purpose, which
Speaker 1: has more than sixty four million downloads. Your YouTube videos
Speaker 1: have been streamed two billion times. That's like a third
Speaker 1: of the planet. And I hope you find success. Maybe
Speaker 1: one day you can be on the podcast. When you guys,
Speaker 1: you finished your studies, you turned down jobs in the
Speaker 1: business world to go live in India and become a
Speaker 1: full time monk. That inspired your book, Think Like a Monk.
Speaker 1: It came out in September twenty twenty during this pandemic,
Speaker 1: and I know you've talked about it so much. Hopefully
Speaker 1: we will get to talk about it and so many
Speaker 1: more other things. But it's it's sold out so many copies,
Speaker 1: and with that in mind, love to welcome you our
Speaker 1: show to men enough thank you for embarrassing me is
Speaker 1: awkward to just like here you're you know, even a
Speaker 1: portion of your life story and your successes, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: perceive successes? Well, I get it, you know, I no,
Speaker 1: I value everything you just shared, like I'm so great
Speaker 1: and blessed to have that. But I have this practice
Speaker 1: that we were trained in as monks that when someone
Speaker 1: notices something good about you, even what you were just
Speaker 1: saying earlier, you accept and you receive it, but you
Speaker 1: think of the person that helped you get that skill
Speaker 1: or ability or habit or practice that helped you develop
Speaker 1: that intentionally on intentionally, and you pass it on to them.
Speaker 1: So I love doing this because I can just sit
Speaker 1: here and think about all my teachers and monk teachers
Speaker 1: and pass it back to them and thank them in
Speaker 1: my heart. So it's an opportunity to be thankful and grateful.
Speaker 1: So I love that you've been on the podcast for
Speaker 1: thirty five seconds and you've already dropped something that's helpful
Speaker 1: to me because I have a hard time accepting compliments.
Speaker 1: I just have a hard time with it and I love.
Speaker 1: I love that I can accept it and thank somebody.
Speaker 1: I can do that. Yeah, it's simple. I can do
Speaker 1: that because I stand on the shoulder of giants. Right,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. All right, all right, thank you. I've
Speaker 1: noticed too before you before I hope you don't mind
Speaker 1: me putting this out. Before we started, I saw you.
Speaker 1: I looked over you, and your eyes were closing. You
Speaker 1: just look like thirty fifty sixty seconds. Is that something
Speaker 1: that you learned during your Yeah, what monastery? During your time? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was the idea of using any opportunity before you
Speaker 1: begin something, you're setting your intention for service. So before
Speaker 1: you begin anything in the day, whether it's eating or
Speaker 1: even sleeping or spending time with someone or I mean,
Speaker 1: we literally are serving humanity through Justin and all of
Speaker 1: you and the incredible work that man enough to us.
Speaker 1: So to just set your intention and be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: let me get out of my own way, let me
Speaker 1: be a channel, let me serve, let me you know not.
Speaker 1: So it's not really a prayer. It's a prayer. You
Speaker 1: could call it a prayer, absolutely, Yeah, you could call
Speaker 1: it a prayer. But the clear thing is you're setting
Speaker 1: your intention for service. Yeah, so a prayer to be
Speaker 1: of service. Absolutely. So I'd like to start by asking
Speaker 1: you when was a time where you just didn't feel
Speaker 1: like you were man enough. I'd probably see him my
Speaker 1: whole life like it's it feels like such a real
Speaker 1: thing because when I was growing up as a young boy,
Speaker 1: I was overweight and I was one of the few
Speaker 1: ethnic minorities in my area, and so I was bullied
Speaker 1: at primary school and I'd always be picked on or
Speaker 1: the mick taken out of whether it was racism or
Speaker 1: whether it was about my weight or body image and
Speaker 1: all of those kind of issues. And I actually didn't
Speaker 1: take it that personally because I'd go home and my
Speaker 1: mom loved me a lot, and so I was raised.
Speaker 1: I feel like I was literally raised by my mom,
Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons why I never felt
Speaker 1: man enough, because my mother was the most involved parent.
Speaker 1: My dad was very much aloof let me make my decisions,
Speaker 1: failure's choice is, but my mother was always there. My
Speaker 1: mother taught me how to shave my face, she taught
Speaker 1: me my skincare routine. She taught like my mother was
Speaker 1: like the first person to teach me a lot of
Speaker 1: what people's dads usually teach them, and that wasn't because
Speaker 1: my dad was a bad father. It's just that that
Speaker 1: was his style. And we have a great friendship now.
Speaker 1: But with my mom, she was the one of mold.
Speaker 1: So I never felt man enough because I didn't have
Speaker 1: a man teaching me man things, or however you want
Speaker 1: to put it. I was always surrounded by my mother
Speaker 1: and my sister and powerful women in my life, and
Speaker 1: I wasn't really exposed to how for males or any
Speaker 1: of those figures. So how's that manifest? Like people call
Speaker 1: your mama's boy? Did they call your names? Yeah? All
Speaker 1: of it. I remember when when someone would pick on
Speaker 1: me at school, I'd go tell my mom that my
Speaker 1: mum would come to school to like, you know, like
Speaker 1: they're like, why are you treating my son like this?
Speaker 1: And that's like the worst night I've ever a kid, right,
Speaker 1: Like It's like everyone in the school is like, oh Goshler,
Speaker 1: it's Jay's mom again. And you know, my mom can
Speaker 1: be pretty protective of me, especially when I was younger,
Speaker 1: and so she'd get right in there with the headmistress's
Speaker 1: office or the dean's office and just be like, can't
Speaker 1: have this happen, and then everyone would find out and
Speaker 1: then and would laugh at you more. And so I
Speaker 1: think I think it ended up. I actually think it
Speaker 1: just made me more of who I am today. But
Speaker 1: when I went to high school, I started to crave
Speaker 1: more male attention. So going from that, I then went
Speaker 1: to an all boys school. Oh wow, So I went
Speaker 1: to an all boys school from the age of eleven
Speaker 1: to eighteen. And at that point you have no one
Speaker 1: else's validation or recognition to get apart from other boys.
Speaker 1: Right now, I want to fit in, did you? So?
Speaker 1: Did you seek or crave that attention? Absolutely? That's when
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, now I want to be seen
Speaker 1: as strong, and I want to be seen as cool,
Speaker 1: and I want to be seen as the guy, and
Speaker 1: I want to be seen as this and that. And
Speaker 1: so I think that manifested in being quite competitive. And
Speaker 1: so I wanted to get a spot on the school's
Speaker 1: rugby team. I wanted to get a spot on the
Speaker 1: school's swimming team. I wanted to get a spot on
Speaker 1: the stool I did. I think a big part of
Speaker 1: it was that masculine feeling that it gave me. And
Speaker 1: so I think it manifested in insecurities at high school.
Speaker 1: So as I got older, I actually think between fourteen
Speaker 1: to eighteen, it manifested as insecurities of seeking validation and
Speaker 1: recognition for that which was not me. So I wasn't
Speaker 1: looking to be loved because I was empathetic and compassionate
Speaker 1: and kind, which is how my mom raised me. I
Speaker 1: was looking to be liked because I was bold and
Speaker 1: courageous and strong and physical and competitive, and so you
Speaker 1: almost start looking for validation for the things that you're not,
Speaker 1: so you became you were performing absolutely every day, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1: Masculinity feels like like it's a total dance, right, It's
Speaker 1: a total choreography, and you're kind of watching other men
Speaker 1: like do it right, Like even the handshake, Like how
Speaker 1: am I supposed to like do the hug? Then the pole,
Speaker 1: then the there's like a pole, there's a tap sometimes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different It's very funny, not funny,
Speaker 1: but you can be entertaining it as a woman to
Speaker 1: just kind of watch that and be like, I'm so
Speaker 1: happy I don't have to figure that out, but but
Speaker 1: I want to come back to the you know, your
Speaker 1: point about service, which you really opened up our conversation
Speaker 1: with I feel like we overemphasize service for women, right
Speaker 1: that you are at the service of the people around
Speaker 1: you and that's your value in the world, and we
Speaker 1: kind of under emphasize service for men. And it seems
Speaker 1: like for you finding service as purpose was really very
Speaker 1: meaningful part of your identity. I'm wondering how you see,
Speaker 1: you know, us being able to make that connection, what
Speaker 1: a service look like for men, and how is it
Speaker 1: tied to masculinity. Yeah, I mean I saw. What I
Speaker 1: was saying was I saw my mother's sacrifice growing up.
Speaker 1: So my mother was raising me and my sister deeply
Speaker 1: would love have always felt love by my mother. And
Speaker 1: then she would also have her own business, so I
Speaker 1: didn't even know. I didn't know she was an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1: But she was an entrepreneur, which was so weird because
Speaker 1: she never made herself out to be an entrepreneur. And
Speaker 1: so she had her own business. She started it so
Speaker 1: that she could work more flexibly, and she was taking
Speaker 1: care of my sister. She'd drop us to school, she'd
Speaker 1: pick us up, she'd make us dinner. She'd be working
Speaker 1: as well, and at one point became the main breadwinner
Speaker 1: in the family as well, and so I saw my
Speaker 1: mum serve or sacrifice in this way, and so I
Speaker 1: feel like I got trained by watching her and observing her.
Speaker 1: And then when I met the monks, who the predominant
Speaker 1: monks that I lived with were all men, and service
Speaker 1: was at the core of their entire being. So our
Speaker 1: teachers would always tell us that the only way a
Speaker 1: culture succeeds is if everyone wants to serve everyone else.
Speaker 1: And so that was like the encouragement of that culture.
Speaker 1: And that's where it became so real to me and
Speaker 1: for me, service and masculinity go hand in hand, but
Speaker 1: service and humanity go hand in hand. And I think
Speaker 1: this is it's slightly veering off from where we are,
Speaker 1: but I think it's an important point to make. Is
Speaker 1: when I lived as a monk, we stopped identifying as
Speaker 1: men and women, and we were asked to identify as consciousness.
Speaker 1: And that distinction and difference just kind of created this
Speaker 1: huge like weight of my shoulders because now I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not masculine or feminine, or I'm not this or that.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just I'm just consciousness. I'm a human,
Speaker 1: I'm a soul. Whatever, you want to call it, I'm energy,
Speaker 1: and that energy is wired for service, and so the
Speaker 1: energy inside each of us at this table is wired
Speaker 1: for service. So the way it connects is that we've
Speaker 1: been designed to serve. But unfortunately, and I've heard that
Speaker 1: a lot from women, is that often it turns into
Speaker 1: being a martyr or going to the point of self
Speaker 1: sacrifice and self sabotage because of how it's encouraged more
Speaker 1: and I was speaking at this event and a man
Speaker 1: came up to me. He was probably in his forties,
Speaker 1: and I had just told a story about how when
Speaker 1: I met the monks at eighteen, they shifted my perspective
Speaker 1: to service. And he said to me, he goes, You're
Speaker 1: so lucky that you got that at eighteen, and I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I no, trust me, Like I'm so
Speaker 1: grateful to my teachers. He goes, no, no, no, really,
Speaker 1: he goes, I only realized that someone else mattered when
Speaker 1: I had a child, And he was like, that's the
Speaker 1: only that was the first time I realized that someone
Speaker 1: apart from me mattered. And you know, he was obviously
Speaker 1: being really vulnerable, and I appreciated him sharing that, and
Speaker 1: I met it with compassion. But I think that's the
Speaker 1: case that for a lot of men that I don't
Speaker 1: think we're trained early on in our life to realize
Speaker 1: that not just to our kids matter or our partners matter,
Speaker 1: but everyone matters, and more people matter. Well, you're rewarded
Speaker 1: if you don't, right, like on the rugby team, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of the culture you're describing where you get rewarded
Speaker 1: if you are individualistic, competitive, and you know, have this
Speaker 1: kind of added to And again for women it's the opposite.
Speaker 1: We get heavily punished when we when we take on
Speaker 1: those characteristics. That's true. Yeah, but that ungendering is so interesting, right,
Speaker 1: that happened, and that surplus of energy that you felt
Speaker 1: is something that we could all access, right if we
Speaker 1: weren't weight down by these gender stereotypes. It's like the freedom, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that you had sight, you had knowledge
Speaker 1: growing up by your mother, and you kind of held
Speaker 1: that to yourself. I gave it up because I saw
Speaker 1: it as less than So it's not even that I
Speaker 1: held it back. I gave it up and substituted it,
Speaker 1: traded it in for your man card, correct for this toxicity,
Speaker 1: which then obviously encouraged more people to go down that path.
Speaker 1: And then I think the best thing I've done to
Speaker 1: try and remove that is when I became a monk.
Speaker 1: I became the mentor to a lot of young men
Speaker 1: in London. And those young men are still involved in
Speaker 1: my life. So I've known them since they were like
Speaker 1: sixteen to eighteen years old. They were like twenty to
Speaker 1: twenty eight years old now, and so I feel like
Speaker 1: those twenty five guys, they know who they are, Like,
Speaker 1: those are like my favorite success story because those they
Speaker 1: I just see them make amazing decisions with their partners,
Speaker 1: their careers, Like they're all most of them in relationships now,
Speaker 1: and I see the husbands and the fathers they're becoming,
Speaker 1: and I mean it's it's you know, many of them
Speaker 1: become fathers before I am one, And it's just inspiring
Speaker 1: that they're also leading that way and showing me that
Speaker 1: people don't have to make as bad a mistakes or
Speaker 1: go as far as I did. Right, where do you go,
Speaker 1: like when you're struggling, you know, when you and your
Speaker 1: wife are having a fight, or if you ever have
Speaker 1: a fight. I don't know if you guys have fights,
Speaker 1: where do you go? And share that because you are
Speaker 1: you are a spiritual gurroof to millions of people now,
Speaker 1: right and in many ways, and so many people look
Speaker 1: to you for advice, But who do you go to?
Speaker 1: Where do you go when you need help? Yeah? So
Speaker 1: the first thing I'm going to address that they're arguing
Speaker 1: my wife, because I think that's such a good thing
Speaker 1: to talk about. This is what I find fascinating about
Speaker 1: the way humans are wired. And and I'll give an example.
Speaker 1: So my wife's been my first guest every year when
Speaker 1: we launched a new season other podcast. So she's been
Speaker 1: on the podcast three times, the guest we've had on
Speaker 1: the most. And every time we'll do like a one
Speaker 1: and a half hour episode of everything we struggled with
Speaker 1: that year, and so we talk about like the mistakes,
Speaker 1: the failures, the things that went wrong, and the number
Speaker 1: one comment will be relationship goals, and then I'm on
Speaker 1: comment will be couple goals. And what I found is
Speaker 1: that the human desire to be inspired and want someone
Speaker 1: to project perfection onto anyone is so strong that my
Speaker 1: honest comment back is always please listen to what we
Speaker 1: just said. Yeah, and I'm listening right like yeah, like
Speaker 1: and not in not listening in like, and I know
Speaker 1: you don't mean it's not in an attacking Please just
Speaker 1: listen to me. Like, I just told you that when
Speaker 1: I first started dating my wife, I thought she wanted
Speaker 1: to be wooed like in the movies of Hollywood, and
Speaker 1: I got it all wrong because I was doing all
Speaker 1: this flashy stuff and my wife's actually a simple person,
Speaker 1: did not want any of that. I just told you.
Speaker 1: You don't we have the same story. Yeah, yeah, we haven't.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I don't think. I don't think
Speaker 1: we had on a double day. We didn't talk about
Speaker 1: we did not talk about identical story. Really, yeah, keep going,
Speaker 1: please keep going. So so my point is being like,
Speaker 1: if I've just told you that, actually, for the first
Speaker 1: two years of our marriage, sorry two years of our relationship,
Speaker 1: we didn't understand each other. Don't just look at us
Speaker 1: and go like, oh, yeah, you guys got green eyes
Speaker 1: and they match, and so you match, and like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's there's just so much more to it. And I
Speaker 1: find that as humans, we so want people to be
Speaker 1: perfect that we create a pedestal even if someone's telling
Speaker 1: you the truth. And I think if we just sit
Speaker 1: and all listen to each other. Then a we won't
Speaker 1: be let down by people and be we won't put
Speaker 1: people on the pedestal. But but who do I go to?
Speaker 1: So the first thing I definitely turned to my texts,
Speaker 1: and I know we share this in common. But the
Speaker 1: bugod Geeta has has been such a companion and guided
Speaker 1: my life from so long since I was eighteen, that
Speaker 1: I turned to it all the time. My monk teacher
Speaker 1: who's now seventy years old, who you actually met, Yeah,
Speaker 1: when he came to my home, so you've you've met him,
Speaker 1: And he's now seventy years old. He grew up in
Speaker 1: Chicago and hitched hike to India at the age of nineteen.
Speaker 1: Stories insane, Yeah, he's And And so when I'm when
Speaker 1: I'm struggling with something in a major way, when it's
Speaker 1: like a real like like I feel like it's a
Speaker 1: tragedy at this point, then he's the person I go
Speaker 1: to because he always helps me see the reality and
Speaker 1: see the truth. Again, there's monks in between that journey,
Speaker 1: So he's like kind of at the top of the order.
Speaker 1: But then there's other ones that are more like older brothers,
Speaker 1: and I can be more vulnerable with them than I
Speaker 1: don't feel like. So you have monks, are like monks
Speaker 1: and they're there to help you, like just recalibrate, bring
Speaker 1: yourself to accounts. So for men who don't have monks
Speaker 1: one dial, what is what is your advice for that
Speaker 1: to do business in a more spiritual way. So spirituality
Speaker 1: and business is an interesting concept because a lot of
Speaker 1: people today see it as an oxymoron or you know,
Speaker 1: mutually exclusive. And the truth is that spirituality is so
Speaker 1: powerful that it actually spreads across everything. And I know
Speaker 1: all of you understand that, but it's like, if spirituality
Speaker 1: is what we all say it is, then it has
Speaker 1: the purity and the power to spread across anything. And
Speaker 1: again going back to our previous theme, the key element
Speaker 1: is is this for service of humanity for others or
Speaker 1: is this in the service of myself? Now that's a
Speaker 1: fine line, and I've been on the wrong side of
Speaker 1: that line plenty of times. So there's plenty of times
Speaker 1: when I assess options and opportunities in front of me
Speaker 1: and I realize I'm only taking that option because there's
Speaker 1: ego involved. I'm only taking that option because there's an
Speaker 1: opportunity or there's a big payout or there's a nice
Speaker 1: dollar sign next to it, and I'm only doing it
Speaker 1: for that. And I've said yes to stuff like that
Speaker 1: plenty of times to know that I'm not perfect. But
Speaker 1: the awareness is what I would encourage people to do
Speaker 1: is having the ability to be like, here are the
Speaker 1: three four options in my life right now, let me
Speaker 1: write a word above them, which is the intention of
Speaker 1: why I'm choosing that. And if the word isn't love
Speaker 1: or service, it's not going to feel good after over
Speaker 1: finish it. And so that's what I would encourage people
Speaker 1: to do as a reflection without needing anyone in their
Speaker 1: life or anyone around them. I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1: There's this quote. I don't know the quote exactly, but
Speaker 1: one of the central figures in the Behagh faith talks
Speaker 1: about abdul Baha that when you are suffering and when
Speaker 1: you are going through something and you cannot find a
Speaker 1: way out, to immediately go be of service to another.
Speaker 1: Because when you are service to others, you find that
Speaker 1: your own pains and things, um just dissipate through that.
Speaker 1: So when you talked about earlier about being wired for service,
Speaker 1: So while I think that also there are some people
Speaker 1: that are put into service toward two others, not to
Speaker 1: be of pure service, because they're forced to be put there. Um,
Speaker 1: women are some wives oftentimes unless we do something different.
Speaker 1: I have these conversations with Liz all the time. The
Speaker 1: service that I've always seen with women in my life,
Speaker 1: my mother, grandma, all of them, they it was, it was.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of sexism going on as well,
Speaker 1: not necessarily by my father, certainly, I want to I
Speaker 1: want to say no, but all of the stuff that
Speaker 1: was being experienced. So I think that this idea of
Speaker 1: service being elevated, but service being forced, how do we
Speaker 1: how do we really talk and how does service and
Speaker 1: cabitalism right like which feel at odds m How do
Speaker 1: you how do you reconcile that. Yeah, there's a beautiful
Speaker 1: statement by Peter Diamandis and he says that we should
Speaker 1: redefine the word billionaire to be someone who impacts the
Speaker 1: lives of a billion people. Now, whether you think of
Speaker 1: that from spirituality or from a money perspective, the wealthiest
Speaker 1: people in the world are creating something that services the
Speaker 1: most amount of people. And the scale of the problem
Speaker 1: you're solving and the depth of the issue is how
Speaker 1: much money you make. So if someone created a cure
Speaker 1: for cancer and was able to scale it across the world,
Speaker 1: they would probably be the wealthiest person on the planet
Speaker 1: because they created something out of service. Now you may say, well, Jay,
Speaker 1: well no, many people out of wanting the money will
Speaker 1: figure that out. I'd say that they may, but I'm
Speaker 1: hoping that on that journey they'll upgrade in their desire
Speaker 1: and their intention will be purified. And I think this
Speaker 1: was what I loved learning from the Barge Ghita, which
Speaker 1: was this idea of there is no pure intention. All
Speaker 1: intentions are percentages and divided. So when you first start something,
Speaker 1: you may have a seventy percent pure intention, but there's
Speaker 1: thirty percent of ego in that. Or when you start
Speaker 1: it's probably the other way around twenty five percent good
Speaker 1: intention then seventy five percent ego, but it's purified in
Speaker 1: the process. So even if you look at people who've
Speaker 1: set out their lives, and I work with many of them,
Speaker 1: who set out at the beginning of their lives to
Speaker 1: become wealthy and famous. When they became wealthy and famous,
Speaker 1: they then realized that wasn't the point, and they were
Speaker 1: purified in the process of achieving their goal. And so
Speaker 1: the way I think about it is that in a
Speaker 1: capitalist society, even the people that are succeeding are succeeding
Speaker 1: because of service, whether it's conscious or not conscious, whether
Speaker 1: it's intentional or unintentional, there's still only like Amazon is
Speaker 1: successful because we all want its service, Like we want
Speaker 1: to be served by Amazon, right, And I'm not promoting
Speaker 1: or deep promoting Amazon. I'm just making the point that
Speaker 1: because it serves a daily need for the majority of
Speaker 1: the population, they are financially successful because of it. Does
Speaker 1: that make senseless? I don't know if I'm answering your question. Well,
Speaker 1: and I want to and I see your face, so
Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to, well, because I feel like
Speaker 1: it doesn't purify like Jeff Bezos. Actually, I don't care
Speaker 1: about pissing off Jeff Bezos doing it with love. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, Jeff Bezos, I don't think. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't have any evidence that he was purified by becoming
Speaker 1: a billionaire, Like he still has twenty eight bathrooms, but
Speaker 1: then he's preventing his workers from unionizing, right, So like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm still wondering how to reconcile those things.
Speaker 1: And we've talked about the intersection of masculinity and risk
Speaker 1: about how you know, women are willing to take big
Speaker 1: risks when it comes to redistribution, when it comes to
Speaker 1: more taxation, when it comes to the environment, and it's
Speaker 1: actually men who and particularly white men. Sorry that I'm
Speaker 1: just talking. I'm just speaking the data. It's particularly white
Speaker 1: men because yeah, the ten most wealthy of those people
Speaker 1: are are white men. Um, you know, they have the
Speaker 1: most to lose. So I think about that all the time,
Speaker 1: you know, I and I you know, I'm bringing this
Speaker 1: up because it's something that that I grapple with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: where I feel like my heart is in the right place,
Speaker 1: and I've known when it's not, or when I've done
Speaker 1: something I'm like, this was not for the right reason.
Speaker 1: But yeah, how do we do how do we reconcile
Speaker 1: those things? I think? And yeah, whether anyone's been purified
Speaker 1: or not, and where their journey of life goes, well,
Speaker 1: we'll find out, right with everyone. I really believe that
Speaker 1: everyone's on this recurring journey of life and it's all
Speaker 1: to get people to realize that service is the only goal.
Speaker 1: And we kind of have to keep having life experiences
Speaker 1: and failures and shortcomings and issues and everything going wrong
Speaker 1: to only remind you of that and that being the
Speaker 1: only satisfying thing. The way you reconcile it is only
Speaker 1: through stillness and solitude. Like if you don't spend enough
Speaker 1: time alone every day and try to hear yourself and
Speaker 1: try to hear the words of your spiritual teachers, guides texts,
Speaker 1: then you are only going to hear the noise from
Speaker 1: society outside, and that's what you'll end up following. Or
Speaker 1: if you're switching off the noise to listen to a
Speaker 1: podcast like this and all the other episodes that I've seen,
Speaker 1: the guests you've had on, and the types of conversations
Speaker 1: you're having on, you're all performing a service. And by
Speaker 1: the way, everyone who's listening is also serving by learning,
Speaker 1: So it's not only the giver that is serving, the
Speaker 1: receiver is also serving. I think the bigger challenge is
Speaker 1: also that we've just lacked examples of that, And so
Speaker 1: to me, it's like I would be traveling with one
Speaker 1: of our senior monk leaders. You know this gentleman seventy
Speaker 1: years old. I'm like twenty one years old and every
Speaker 1: day we'd wake up in the morning and he would
Speaker 1: bow down before me on the floor to honor the
Speaker 1: soul that's within my heart. And I would do the
Speaker 1: same bag, but he would always beat me to it,
Speaker 1: and there was no one watching. There were no fanfare,
Speaker 1: there was no audience, there was no one to do
Speaker 1: it for. I wasn't Jay shed like. I was just
Speaker 1: a kid who's twenty one years old, And that's how
Speaker 1: we were taught to behave with each other with that
Speaker 1: much level of respect. Now, he would have done that
Speaker 1: with anyone in the room. So the reason I'm sharing
Speaker 1: that is, like, when I experienced that level of masculine
Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call that, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: if when I experienced that, it gave me faith that
Speaker 1: a man could be extremely powerful by being extremely humble,
Speaker 1: that a man could be extremely could penetrate my heart
Speaker 1: by being really kind and caring and compassionate. But if
Speaker 1: you've never experienced that, how are you to believe that
Speaker 1: that's possible? Yeah, I think the first step is to
Speaker 1: seek and find. Like, I think it's hard to tell
Speaker 1: anyone to the formula for how to navigate that without
Speaker 1: them finding a purpose that is bigger than themselves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like it's hard for anyone to navigate life. Sometimes your purpose,
Speaker 1: bigger than yourself becomes your family and your love for
Speaker 1: your family, and that's as far and wide as your
Speaker 1: mind wants to go. And that's beautiful. And for some
Speaker 1: people it becomes the world, and for some people becomes
Speaker 1: their town and their city. But everyone has to have something,
Speaker 1: you know, those beautiful words of Martin Luther, King of
Speaker 1: You know, if you have nothing to die for, you
Speaker 1: have nothing to live for. Like that to me is
Speaker 1: the clear purpose of life where we have to seek
Speaker 1: out what it is that we really care about and
Speaker 1: what we really believe in. And that can be your family.
Speaker 1: That's totally fine. Like this doesn't have to be like
Speaker 1: a I'm going to become an activist and change the
Speaker 1: world conversation. This is I care about the quality of
Speaker 1: life my family has, but I think about quality based
Speaker 1: on the depth of their experience of life, not just
Speaker 1: what they have. And I'm going to live my life
Speaker 1: or try and live my life in that way. And
Speaker 1: so to me, the first step is to seek mentors, coaches, guides, guidance.
Speaker 1: It has to be it always is. I had the
Speaker 1: fortune of interviewing Walter Isaacson. He's famously known to write
Speaker 1: the biographies of the biggest icons of all time. So
Speaker 1: he wrote the official biography of Leonardo da Vinci, Einstein,
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs like you know, just it's insane. And he
Speaker 1: worked at CNN and Time before that. And he wrote
Speaker 1: a new book about a lady named Jennifer Dowdner who
Speaker 1: is the founder of gene editing. Now. She's a female
Speaker 1: scientist who was told by her school teachers that women
Speaker 1: don't become scientists, right like women's can't be scientists. She
Speaker 1: just won the Nobel Prize for her discovery, so amazing,
Speaker 1: and he just wrote a book about her life. It's
Speaker 1: called Codebreaker. The reason why I'm sharing all of that
Speaker 1: is that some girls going to pick up that book,
Speaker 1: or guy both or anyone or they are going to
Speaker 1: pick up that book and they are going to find
Speaker 1: their role model in that book. We all find we
Speaker 1: may not have a monk on speed Dow we may
Speaker 1: not have met a monk when you're eighteen, but you're
Speaker 1: going to find when you start searching and looking, and
Speaker 1: when you find that, you're going to read it, You're
Speaker 1: going to internalize it. And it's going to change how
Speaker 1: you think. And I just feel that encouraging people to
Speaker 1: find coaches, guides, and mentors is the best thing I
Speaker 1: can do, because there's no one we admire that doesn't
Speaker 1: have that. Whether they're an athlete, whether they're a singer,
Speaker 1: whether they're a musician, whether they're a videographer or editor.
Speaker 1: Everyone's had mentors, guides, and coaches, but it's become so
Speaker 1: far removed from our lives today that everyone thinks they
Speaker 1: have to figure out for themselves, and that's where the
Speaker 1: mess is created from. It sounds like an obvious point,
Speaker 1: but it's almost like we obviously haven't pushed it enough.
Speaker 1: Because as a man, to take another person as your
Speaker 1: mentor also requires you to have humility. You've got to
Speaker 1: forgive yourself, You've got to be compassionate to yourself. So
Speaker 1: the simple act of taking on a mentor actually does
Speaker 1: more for your masculinity than anything else. And also being
Speaker 1: a mentor, yes, right, you reach, you reach a place
Speaker 1: and you have your success or you have achieved something,
Speaker 1: and then being of service to that person who's sending
Speaker 1: the elevator back down. But it's the biggest, it's the
Speaker 1: biggest myth of masculinity that we have to do it
Speaker 1: by ourselves. Yes, like that. We you know that we
Speaker 1: can't ask for help, We can't ask for guidance, We
Speaker 1: can't ask for those things. Yeah. Yeah, I want to
Speaker 1: ask you something real quick, Jay, because because I don't
Speaker 1: know how you do it. And social media, I want
Speaker 1: to talk about social media for a second. We talked
Speaker 1: about a little bit when I joined your podcast, But
Speaker 1: we know what social media in many ways does to
Speaker 1: our brains. We get dopamine hits left and right, much
Speaker 1: more than you know we ever have in human history,
Speaker 1: like dislike, followers, comments, all of which are contributing, I
Speaker 1: think to a different kind of pandemic, which is like
Speaker 1: extremely low self worth, seeking external validation, and everybody wanting
Speaker 1: to become the center of attention, an influencer, to have influence.
Speaker 1: And then you mix in like what's becoming trendy or
Speaker 1: popular or woke in culture, and then you have service, right,
Speaker 1: and these lines get very blurred, like I've struggle like
Speaker 1: do I post that? Doing not post that? Like oh
Speaker 1: that didn't get as many likes? And I still have
Speaker 1: those thoughts, And I just imagine fifteen year olds and
Speaker 1: twelve year olds now that are getting social media and
Speaker 1: all of these things. And I remember watching this, like
Speaker 1: I swear she was eight years old. She was doing
Speaker 1: she was by herself in a CVS doing a TikTok,
Speaker 1: holding the phone by herself, and I was really confused.
Speaker 1: And I looked at that and my heartbroke just thinking
Speaker 1: about the performative aspect of what social media does. How
Speaker 1: have you stayed above water? How have you not been affected?
Speaker 1: Or are you ever affected? And I guess that's my
Speaker 1: question is are you also affected by if something doesn't
Speaker 1: have a lot of likes or if a podcast doesn't
Speaker 1: have a lot of downloads. Because you seem impermeable in
Speaker 1: that way, like you have the teachings. You're so rooted
Speaker 1: in the teachings and in your meditation and your practice
Speaker 1: that it's like if you're not shaken by the outside world,
Speaker 1: but you're teaching people this wisdom, this ancient wisdom, but
Speaker 1: yet you're doing it from the swamp. How do you
Speaker 1: stay out of it? And do you struggle? Ever? You
Speaker 1: fall in and you fall in again all the time.
Speaker 1: Social media was my last resort to try and share
Speaker 1: a message that I deeply believe the world needed and
Speaker 1: so if I had it my way, I would never
Speaker 1: have taken to social media. I would have done it
Speaker 1: through one of these official channels that wouldn't give me
Speaker 1: a chance. And I think people don't think that. People think, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you joined social media because you want to get it.
Speaker 1: It's like I joined social media because I didn't know
Speaker 1: any other way to spread the message. So going back
Speaker 1: to mistakes on social media or failures, I've fallen into
Speaker 1: it so many times that I fall into on a
Speaker 1: daily basis. If your life revolves around serving through social media,
Speaker 1: you have to become phenomenal at social media strategy. It's
Speaker 1: you can't separate the two. You have to The problem
Speaker 1: is when the strategy overtakes the sincerity. The problem is
Speaker 1: when the strategy overtakes the creativity or overshadows the creativity.
Speaker 1: The problem is when the strategy just becomes a game
Speaker 1: and now you're just living in this fake world you've created.
Speaker 1: And that's the problem. When you just look at the
Speaker 1: likes and you don't look at the comments, when you
Speaker 1: look at the views, but you don't look at the engagement.
Speaker 1: And when I say engagement, I mean the depth of it.
Speaker 1: What are people saying, how are they feeling? That's what
Speaker 1: humanizes it again for me. So that's what I'm holding
Speaker 1: onto is the humanizing of it, of seeing like, how
Speaker 1: is this genuinely having a human impact not a data impact.
Speaker 1: And I think that's where our mindset is strategist versus
Speaker 1: spiritualist goes is. As a strategist, you're meant to think data,
Speaker 1: but as a spiritualist you're meant to think depth, and
Speaker 1: so you can't let data overshadow depth. And what I
Speaker 1: love about algorithms is that they always keep you humble.
Speaker 1: You will never beat the algorithm. It will always keep
Speaker 1: you humble. So if you're actually doing it for likes
Speaker 1: and love and hearts, you will give up. But if
Speaker 1: you're doing it because you just want to find what
Speaker 1: is going to connect with people, what is going to resonate,
Speaker 1: what is going to cut through, then that's something that
Speaker 1: will keep you humble in the process of it, because
Speaker 1: you'll never win. You've been able to separate how a
Speaker 1: video does or performs from your own self worth, oh
Speaker 1: for sure. And I think that is really kind of
Speaker 1: the key and the question for when that TikTok or
Speaker 1: the Instagram video turns off, they're left with themselves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, one of the things you teach us
Speaker 1: being with yourself. But if they don't know how to
Speaker 1: be with theirselves, so I guess this is this is
Speaker 1: an opportunity. I'm asking you to talk to them. If
Speaker 1: someone's listening right now, who's struggling with that, because I
Speaker 1: have struggled with it, especially from a service perspective, like
Speaker 1: I'm here to be of service. Why am I making
Speaker 1: this about? Why do I care? Why should I care?
Speaker 1: I don't care? Do I care? I do care? I
Speaker 1: care too much? No, I didn't get you know. And
Speaker 1: it's like, should I post that? No, But this is
Speaker 1: my platform. I want to post whatever I want. I
Speaker 1: want to post the picture of the sunset, but no
Speaker 1: one's gonna like the picture of the sunset, justin to
Speaker 1: post something. And I've had these conversations with myself and
Speaker 1: the fact that I'm having them drive me crazy. And
Speaker 1: you just strike me as somebody who doesn't have them
Speaker 1: as much. And maybe that's because you have a sense
Speaker 1: of self. A practical answer is all the work goes
Speaker 1: in thinking about something up front. So when you set
Speaker 1: your intention, when you're creating a piece of content. So
Speaker 1: my books the biggest, deepest, most meaningful thing I put
Speaker 1: out in the world, in my opinion, And I spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time writing it, researching it, thinking about
Speaker 1: the every day you were on a mission three four
Speaker 1: hours a day, you were literally yeah, yeah, and we
Speaker 1: I knew that I wanted science in it, and I
Speaker 1: wanted monk research in it, and so I had had
Speaker 1: monks resetting, I had a scientific research ye Like. It
Speaker 1: was a real team project to get it to be
Speaker 1: what I wanted it to be. And I put in
Speaker 1: all the work up front because my intention was if
Speaker 1: you create something with the love, with the service, with
Speaker 1: the intention of that, then that's what people are going
Speaker 1: to feel. Whereas if I create it with the intention
Speaker 1: of going viral or which would you can't actually do
Speaker 1: because viral, by nature and by what it is, means
Speaker 1: that you can't predict it like people can do that.
Speaker 1: People decide that with the book. If you're obsessed with
Speaker 1: X result, it ruins the process. So for me, when
Speaker 1: I'm in the process, I really shut my windows and
Speaker 1: I close the doors, and I'm like, this process has
Speaker 1: to be as pure as possible, as possible, as possible.
Speaker 1: So it's not one hundred percent, but it's as good
Speaker 1: as it can get. And when we look at and
Speaker 1: you know, when we talk about how do we share
Speaker 1: this with the world, let's also make the process really good.
Speaker 1: Are we sharing in the right places? Are we getting
Speaker 1: it right? And then when you share it, you know
Speaker 1: that you've done everything you possibly could to make it worthwhile,
Speaker 1: and if it doesn't work, you can take that because
Speaker 1: you've done everything. The problem is when you put something
Speaker 1: out with the desire of, oh, it's going to do great.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm masterminded this, it's perfect, and then it
Speaker 1: doesn't do well, then it affects you. Whereas when you've
Speaker 1: built all your self worth in the process of that.
Speaker 1: And so I sent my publishers an email and I'm
Speaker 1: saying this because I'm proud of myself doing this, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to say that here. I send them an
Speaker 1: email the day before the book came out and we
Speaker 1: had no idea what was going to happen or anything,
Speaker 1: and I said, I just want to thank you for
Speaker 1: this process. It's been the best process I've ever had.
Speaker 1: I love you guys. It's been amazing. It's You've been
Speaker 1: the best team I've ever worked with that I really
Speaker 1: appreciate you, from the editor down to the fact checker,
Speaker 1: down to this whatever, everyone on the team, and I
Speaker 1: just want you to know I'm already proud of what
Speaker 1: we've achieved. And I send that email after them, and
Speaker 1: I remember the president of the company that I work
Speaker 1: with he replied to me, because Jay, we never get
Speaker 1: one of these emails the day before the book comes out.
Speaker 1: It was like, we always get this if the book
Speaker 1: does well or whatever. And I was like, no, I
Speaker 1: genuinely feel so proud of what we've achieved already. Whatever
Speaker 1: happens happens. I had my UK publisher tell me, Jay,
Speaker 1: you know what, we're probably not going to hit number
Speaker 1: one on the Sunday Times in the UK because you
Speaker 1: know there's some big hitters in the UK coming out
Speaker 1: this week. Are you okay with it? I was like, dude,
Speaker 1: I have written the best book I possibly could. We've
Speaker 1: done the best launch that I probably could have done.
Speaker 1: I couldn't have done anymore. I'm good, like whatever, I
Speaker 1: don't care. And it's like, to me, that's the only
Speaker 1: way to not care is that you put all your
Speaker 1: heart into the creation. So that's the practical answer, the
Speaker 1: philosophical answer, and the more spiritual answer is I'm flawed.
Speaker 1: I do seek validation in what people think of me.
Speaker 1: I do get upset if someone doesn't like my videos
Speaker 1: and like someone else's. And I forgive myself. I'm compassionate,
Speaker 1: and I start over again. That's just the real answer, Like,
Speaker 1: that's just the truth. I mess up, I fall down.
Speaker 1: I get that I'm I do get worried about, Oh, well,
Speaker 1: will I be relevant next year? Oh? I do get
Speaker 1: worried about, like, oh will people care about me? I
Speaker 1: do get worried about like have I said anything good
Speaker 1: on this podcast right now? Like? Is there anything that
Speaker 1: I've said that is actually even worth this podcast? I
Speaker 1: do think about that, like every time I think about it,
Speaker 1: every time I record a solo episode of my podcast,
Speaker 1: and I think about it all the time. But what
Speaker 1: do I do I allow myself to feel that, I
Speaker 1: allow myself to experience it. I forgive myself for judging myself,
Speaker 1: and then I start again, and I start every day
Speaker 1: as if it was new. And my wife and I
Speaker 1: have this amazing ability we both have. It is that
Speaker 1: we can go to sleep, forget the night before, and
Speaker 1: start again, and I think my memory literally does that.
Speaker 1: I erase all of my failures and mistakes from the
Speaker 1: day before and just start afresh every day, because it's
Speaker 1: the only way I know to allow myself to have
Speaker 1: another go at it. Just the idea of allowing yourself
Speaker 1: to have some compassion for yourself. And I think everyone
Speaker 1: who's sitting out there who's judging themselves accept that you
Speaker 1: judge yourself, be compassionate, but then seek to redirect that energy.
Speaker 1: Whatever table you're at and whoever's at that table is
Speaker 1: what you judge yourself by. So when we heard that
Speaker 1: famous quote of you are the average of the five
Speaker 1: people you spend the most time with, actually what the
Speaker 1: truth is, your values become the average of the five
Speaker 1: people and their values. I love that. When we talked
Speaker 1: you and I did like a pandemic check in with
Speaker 1: like a man enough kind of check in, and you
Speaker 1: had admitted that you were addicted to video games for
Speaker 1: a little bit. I was, and and that was big
Speaker 1: In the book, I talked about, you know, an ongoing
Speaker 1: struggle I've had with porn since I was you know,
Speaker 1: a kid, and and you said it caught you by
Speaker 1: surprise that you were addicted. You found yourself like, you know,
Speaker 1: taking all of this emotion and just playing video games
Speaker 1: and hours would pass by. Yeah, I'm curious which one.
Speaker 1: By the way, So FIFA, NBA two K, two K
Speaker 1: twenty one now I have and Assassin's Creed. It's is
Speaker 1: really mess Wait wait an playing Assassin's Creed. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: so I'm curious how bad did it get and what
Speaker 1: pulled you out or or is that still an ongoing
Speaker 1: thing that you're you're just struggling with a little bit,
Speaker 1: or is it a you know, oh my gosh. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we just found out as the pandemic, I realized we
Speaker 1: were going to be stuck indoors. I thought maybe this
Speaker 1: is gonna be last a month, That's what I thought.
Speaker 1: And I was like, all right, well, what am I
Speaker 1: going to do with this time? Like a lot of
Speaker 1: things were getting canceled at the time and things like that,
Speaker 1: and we had a friends staying my wife's friends staying
Speaker 1: with us, so they would always be spending time together
Speaker 1: and everything. So I was pretty much on my own
Speaker 1: and instead of meditating more or reading more, I ordered
Speaker 1: a PlayStation, which, by the way, I hadn't played video
Speaker 1: games for ten years, like I just hadn't. I hadn't
Speaker 1: watch TV religious like properly, like watch the series on TV.
Speaker 1: I'd watched movies. I love movies. I dodn't watch a
Speaker 1: TV show for like ten years, but I literally would
Speaker 1: sit there and play how was an? How was it?
Speaker 1: Video games? And I think I didn't stop playing for
Speaker 1: like it took like three to four weeks before I
Speaker 1: realized that I'd been playing video games for eight hours
Speaker 1: a day, eight hours time was wasted. All of I
Speaker 1: thought I was dealing well with what was going on,
Speaker 1: but actually I was just using that as my escape
Speaker 1: to what was actually happening in the world. And I
Speaker 1: know it sounds stupid. It's like our video games, but
Speaker 1: it's not. It's terrible. I mean when I would play
Speaker 1: Assassin's Creed, I would walk out there. My wife was
Speaker 1: just like, you look like you've just exited a war.
Speaker 1: Are you okay? Like she would literally look at me,
Speaker 1: like our camera crews laughing, they're like, oh, I feel that.
Speaker 1: She was literally like are you Like she would see
Speaker 1: me come out of the room. I'd come out of
Speaker 1: the cave of like, She's like, are you like? I
Speaker 1: don't think that game's good for you, Like I don't
Speaker 1: think that game's good for your energy. And it was
Speaker 1: like three to four weeks in where I realized I
Speaker 1: was like, God, the world suffering right now, Like I
Speaker 1: should be serving. I'm sitting here playing video games. But
Speaker 1: I have to allow myself and cut myself some slack.
Speaker 1: That that that was my escape at the time. I just
Speaker 1: hadn't slowed down and I hadn't stopped for like the
Speaker 1: last three to four years. Yeah, I hadn't allowed myself
Speaker 1: to have any downtime because I was building and serving
Speaker 1: and creating that that was my outlet. You still realize
Speaker 1: that it starts to damage your relationships, Like my mom
Speaker 1: was like, why not calling? Like, I'm not calling my
Speaker 1: mom and I'm playing a I was a video again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not calling my system. I'm playing I was a
Speaker 1: video games. They're not spending time on my wife. From
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like anything that doesn't have
Speaker 1: moderation involved. Yeah, then it's toxic, right, and you drink
Speaker 1: too much water. And then my therapist put it this way,
Speaker 1: if it's fine, it's acceptable behavior if you're doing it,
Speaker 1: and afterwards you don't feel any shame. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: but if you feel bad they're terrible and that you
Speaker 1: do it again, then you should look at it. Well,
Speaker 1: there are bad things you men can do that they
Speaker 1: don't feel about. Well, yeah, I'm for somebody who's like,
Speaker 1: by the time you get to therapy and you're actually
Speaker 1: working on that thing and you're like, hey, you're trying
Speaker 1: to understand it, by that point, it's like, okay, well
Speaker 1: this is probably unhealthy for you if you're if you're
Speaker 1: that reflective and you're already there, right, So yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting that it seems to be the women
Speaker 1: in your life that sort of pointed that out. Always,
Speaker 1: like the women women like my mother, my sister, and
Speaker 1: from my wife. I've just learned, like like I dedicate
Speaker 1: my book to her because she is more monk than
Speaker 1: I'll ever be, and that's so humbling. When when we
Speaker 1: got married, I was like the guy who'd been a
Speaker 1: monk and meditating for all these years, and even some
Speaker 1: of my spirit spiritual friends were like, oh, you can't
Speaker 1: marry her, she's new to spirituality, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1: And my wife, like, my wife wakes up earlier than
Speaker 1: I do. She meditates for longer than I do. She
Speaker 1: is she's amazing, Like she's far more spiritual than I'll
Speaker 1: ever be. And and I love that because I need
Speaker 1: that she's amazing. Yeah, and I need that. If she
Speaker 1: wasn't that, maybe I wouldn't be who I am today,
Speaker 1: Like maybe I would have got more deviated from the
Speaker 1: path and lost my way. Jay, You're you're incredible. We're
Speaker 1: going to go to these last questions. Welcome to this
Speaker 1: week's Man Enough Podcast Rapid Fire Question, Lau, do you
Speaker 1: want to start all right? The rapid fire question? When
Speaker 1: is the last time that you cried? It was probably
Speaker 1: when I was you know what, I yeah, it was
Speaker 1: probably this Because I don't live in the same country
Speaker 1: as my mom anymore, and because of the pandemic, I
Speaker 1: don't get to see her as much anymore. I used
Speaker 1: to go back regularly. I feel like whenever I'm leaving
Speaker 1: London and my mom cries, I cry because it's my mom,
Speaker 1: Like I love it, like she did every She's done
Speaker 1: everything for me. And the thing about love is there's
Speaker 1: no way of repaying it, so you can only keep trying.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's the beauty of love. And
Speaker 1: also the hard part of love is that you can't
Speaker 1: repay real love. And I feel like I'm always in
Speaker 1: debt to my mom in a good way. And so, yeah,
Speaker 1: i'd say that tell me something that other people value
Speaker 1: that you don't, I'd say it's probably being understood. I'm
Speaker 1: okay with being misunderstood. Wow, I just think it's reality.
Speaker 1: I just don't think you will ever be understood by everyone,
Speaker 1: and so it's okay. Like I don't value being understood
Speaker 1: any I used to. I used to love being I
Speaker 1: want to take that as a superpower. Yeah, I'm going
Speaker 1: to add one, What are you afraid of? I'm afraid
Speaker 1: of not reaching my potential. I'm genuinely afraid of that.
Speaker 1: I do think about that, like I think about the future,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't want to die having thought
Speaker 1: that I didn't try my best to do everything that
Speaker 1: I was meant to do. And my teacher told me
Speaker 1: something once which which set the pedestal of potential much higher.
Speaker 1: And he asked me once, he said, well, what are
Speaker 1: you doing right now? As an update? And so I
Speaker 1: was telling him. I was like, I'm doing this podcast
Speaker 1: and we've launched this book, and I was just sharing
Speaker 1: it out of love and gratitude to him. And he said,
Speaker 1: he said to me, Goes, you know, for all of
Speaker 1: these things that you're doing, I have no expectation, but
Speaker 1: I simply demand the purity of your heart. And I
Speaker 1: was just like, oh, that's a lot harder. And that's
Speaker 1: my biggest fear that I don't live up to that,
Speaker 1: because I feel like I would have wasted all the
Speaker 1: love that he's given me over the years and the
Speaker 1: amount of investment that these teachers are put into a
Speaker 1: random kid from London who is on his way to
Speaker 1: do all the stupid things that people do. And they've
Speaker 1: they've they've loved me through so much and it upsets
Speaker 1: me to think that I mess it up. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: when was the last time you apologize to someone? Today?
Speaker 1: To my wife, we were doing a video together and
Speaker 1: I was rushing to come here or somewhere else and
Speaker 1: I was I had the worst and energy, and she
Speaker 1: stopped me and she looked me in the face and
Speaker 1: she was like, are you okay? Like what's up? Like
Speaker 1: I can tell that you're just frustrated to be here,
Speaker 1: but you need to do this right now, and are
Speaker 1: you okay with that? And and then I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, let's just do it. I don't like your
Speaker 1: energy right now. And then I went back to it
Speaker 1: and I gave her rug and its like I'm really sorry, look,
Speaker 1: I'm just you know, I've had a lot on this
Speaker 1: last week and whatever. So yeah, that was sure. And
Speaker 1: the final question, what does it mean to be man enough? Oh?
Speaker 1: I think, in my opinion, what it means to be
Speaker 1: mad enough is to There's a beautiful statement by Russell
Speaker 1: Barkley where he said that people who need the most
Speaker 1: love often ask for it in the most unloving ways.
Speaker 1: And I think what it means to be mad enough
Speaker 1: is to be able to approach everyone with that love,
Speaker 1: recognizing that the pain they're causing you or anyone else
Speaker 1: is coming from a place of them being unloved at
Speaker 1: some point in their life. Wet, you're my friend or
Speaker 1: man enough. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Liz,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for you. I know I know you
Speaker 1: had to move a lot of stuff run to make
Speaker 1: us happen, So thank you so much. This is so special.
Speaker 1: I learned some sweet If you want even more videos
Speaker 1: just like this one makes you subscribe and click on
Speaker 1: the boxes over here. I'm also excited to let you
Speaker 1: know that you can now yet my book Think Like
Speaker 1: a Monk, from thinkli amnkbook dot com. Check below in
Speaker 1: the description to make sure you order today.