1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on. 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: Plutin just made it very clear that he wants to 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: reunite the Soviet Union. From the views not ethically constrained, 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: there is no such thing as risk free sanctions, but 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: our risk polerance hast rise in the face of an 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: actual landboard in Eira. Floomberg Sound on Politics, Policy and 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: perspective from DC's top name society that the economy is 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: not super robust, Pennsylvania has there's a structurally deficient bridge 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: that the need has been pronounced for a while, and 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: Joe Biden got it done. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe 11 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Well, so much for de escalating. 12 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to the fastest hour in politics as we balanced 13 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: developing stories on both sides of the globe, with Russia 14 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: continuing to increase troop levels along the Ukrainian border according 15 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: to the State Department and NATO and President Biden talking 16 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: with the Chancellor of Germany today from the White House. 17 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: We'll have the latest for you on this and get 18 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: the view of Congresswoman Marcy Captor, a Democrat from Ohio 19 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: who is also a member of the Congressional Ukrainian Caucus 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: and as the CDC prepares to update COVID guidance. Dr 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: Fauci SI's light at the end of the tunnel. But 22 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 1: many states are, of course, well ahead of the federal government. 23 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about this all with Katrine Wallace, 24 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: and epidemiologist and professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. 25 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: The signature panels in place, they're up first. In fact, 26 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: we'll talk in a moment with Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie 27 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: Shenzano and Rick Davis. Was at this time yesterday were 28 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: you with us on sound on? All the talk was 29 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 1: of de escalation, a pullback was underway. According to Vladimir Putin, 30 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: it does not seem to be happening. Quite the opposite. 31 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: In fact, as we hear from Secretary of State Anthony B. Lincoln, 32 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: what we're seeing on the border remains deeply, deeply concerning. 33 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: He talked about it today on ABC's Good Morning America. Unfortunately, 34 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: there's a difference between much of says and what it does, 35 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: and what we're seeing is meaningful pullback. On the contrary, 36 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: we continue to see forces, especially forces that would be 37 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: in the vanguard of any renewed aggression against Ukraine continuing 38 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: to be at the border. Ta Mass at the border. 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: Similar doubts from NATO Secretary General against Stoltenberg suggests a 40 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: new normal in which Europe is under a constant security crisis. 41 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: The new normal is that Russia has demonstrated that it 42 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: really is willing to contest some of the fundamental principles 43 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: for our security. There right for every nation to choose 44 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 1: his own path. But Russia is telling a very different story. 45 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: Cue of the trains. Let she says, Now we're pulling 46 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: back forces. They even released this video. You're hearing sound 47 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: from official video from Russia's Defense Ministry showing a train 48 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: loaded with tanks and armored vehicles leaving Crimea at high speed. 49 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: Of course, that could have been taken at any time right. 50 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: All the while, here in Washington, President Biden today meeting 51 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: with the Chancellor of Germany by phone. Another round with 52 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: all Off Schultz. As diplomacy continues on both sides of 53 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,839 Speaker 1: the Atlantic, has anything changed? This is where we begin 54 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: with our panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie Shenzano and Rick Davis. Genie, 55 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: is Russia just lying now? Well, I think we are 56 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: exactly a where we keep saying we have been, which 57 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: is they're saying one thing and doing another when you have, 58 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, a hundred and fifty thousand plus troops on 59 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: the border, regardless of whether you show on television, trains 60 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: going back and forth to anywhere, it doesn't matter. Let's 61 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: not forget. What's also on RT Russian television is about 62 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: seven cries that Ukraine is the aggressor, that they are 63 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: prepared to attack Russia, and Russia is going to have 64 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: to respond. This is what they are broadcasting over there. 65 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: So I don't think we can listen to what they're saying. 66 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: We have to watch what they're doing and respond accordingly. 67 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: And I think the Biden administration in Nata are on 68 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: the right path on that. It's not a good sign 69 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: one way or the other. Rick, welcome back. The President 70 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: yesterday did speak to the situation in Ukraine and with Russia. 71 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: He was highly skeptical. Sounds like that was the right move. Yeah. 72 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: I think that Biden has actually played cards better than 73 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,559 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin in the last month, and that's really saying 74 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: something because I think all don money was Putin was 75 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: gonna run circles around the President Biden. So kudos to 76 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: the President. He's got him pinned down at least to 77 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: the point where nobody believes anything he says anymore. It's 78 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: exactly what Genie was saying the other day. You know, 79 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: watch what he does. Don't listen to what he says. Uh, 80 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: And then he responds by saying, don't believe your line eyes, 81 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: listen to me. Yeah. The good news is, Look, the 82 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: intelligence community is supplying ready information to the president. Presidents 83 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: breaking all kinds of traditions by taking that intelligence and 84 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: putting it out in the public domain. Uh. And and 85 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: that seems to be uh confusing, if not downright stalling 86 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin from from executing his task. And so where 87 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: do we go from here? Then, Jeanie, the group of 88 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: seven Foreign Ministers are going to meet in person Saturday 89 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: in Munich. Can this just go on like this indefinitely? Well, 90 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: you know, it can, And I think that is part 91 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: of what we are learning here is that it can 92 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: go on. It and it has gone on since and 93 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: I you know, we listen to what the Ukrainians are saying, 94 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: this is nothing new. You're getting more troops at the border, 95 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: but they have been at this with Russia since and 96 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: I do want to give President Biden credit for his 97 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: statements yesterday, not just to the American public, but to 98 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: the Russian people, because I think that's critically important. Whether 99 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: that message gets through or not. It was eleven thirty 100 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: at night in Russia when he was speaking, and Lord 101 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: only knows what they'll put on their own television, but 102 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: hopefully that message gets through to the Russian people and 103 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: to the American people in terms of irrationale for why 104 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: this is so important to the United States in the 105 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: West that we take this seriously, at least more seriously 106 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: than we did well realizing that Russia has been causing 107 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: trouble since I guess you could say even before that. Rick, 108 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: This this state of readiness, uh, as we've already discussed, 109 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: is at a high level. We're talking about as many 110 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: as a hundred and fifty thousand troops now we're spending 111 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: an enormous amount of money keeping them there. How long 112 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: can this particular scenario we're in now go on? I mean, 113 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: are those tanks going to be parked right where they 114 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 1: are now when the President delivers the State of the Union. No, Joe, 115 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: I think you've picked up very important issue that readiness 116 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: does go down the longer you're deployed. That's just a 117 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: fact of life in the military. And and it gets 118 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: more and more expensive the longer you're deployed. And so, uh, 119 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: there's no question at Vladimir Putin's running some risks to 120 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: get down to the point where this really starts to 121 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: show up on his balance sheet. It's expensive to keep 122 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty thousand troops in a bat already position, 123 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: and they will digress in their ability to be top 124 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: form combat troops the longer they stand out there in 125 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: the snow. Uh, Genie, the new normal really stuck out 126 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: to me from Stoltenberg, NATO Secretary General again Stoltenberg, is 127 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: that is that what we're learning here that that you know, 128 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: it's like you need to learn how to live with COVID. Well, 129 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: are we gonna learn to live with Russia just kind 130 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: of being an aggressor freaking everyone out in Europe? Indefinitely? 131 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: We could And I think that you know, part of 132 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: that is going to be the cyber attacks that we 133 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: have seen for several years now, but just in the 134 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: last hours and they are hitting key areas of the 135 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: Ukrainian government, both the public sector and the banking sector 136 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: and continue. Doesn't this then reinforce Rick's argument that we 137 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: hit them right now with sanctions. What are we waiting 138 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: for if we're saying, okay, well it looks like they're 139 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: not going to invade, but they're gonna be a real problem. 140 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: This is our new normal, that there's a security crisis 141 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: in Europe. It does support at but of course we're 142 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: talking about the old fifty fifty Senate and they can't 143 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: even pass a budget, which we haven't talked about yet, 144 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: so we you know, whether they get sanctions pasted. I mean, 145 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: you know, they say they're close, and yet they seem 146 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: very very far and and you know, just to go 147 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: back for a minute, Russia can keep those troops there 148 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: for a while. When you produce ten to eleven million 149 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: barrels of oil a day without sanctions, you can probably 150 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,679 Speaker 1: keep your troops parked on that border for some time. 151 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: And that is a big challenge for us since Putin 152 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: has been ensuring his ability to do just what he's 153 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: doing today. What do you is there a tone of 154 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: resignation here though, Rick? When you hear the Secretary General 155 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: at NATO say, quote, I regret to say this is 156 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: the new normal in Europe unquote, then what are we doing? No? 157 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: I think it it indicates a weakness in our policy 158 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: toward Russia and other authoritarian regimes in the region. Right, 159 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: We've been coddling these people, We've been doing business with 160 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: these people. We've been allowing them to suppress their own people, 161 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: to act, kill in the streets their own people. And 162 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: these used to be fighting words to us, Right, the 163 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: human rights used to matter to us. We used to 164 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: build it into our policy. And so I think this 165 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: is going to start happening now. And maybe this is good. 166 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe by Vladimir Putin's in transidence on the border, 167 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: it unifies Europe. It focuses the attention on these these authoritarians, 168 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: and it starts to hold him accountable for these actions, 169 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: including the things that Jennie was just talking about, like 170 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: cyber attacks. Jennie, You hear Republican lawmakers on this program 171 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: very frequently blame Joe Biden forgetting us to this point. 172 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: Senator Bill Haggerdy was the lawmaker last evening where they 173 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: point to his energy policy and his lack of cracking 174 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: down on nord Stream too, as the two big enablers 175 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: that that fill Vladimir Putin's pockets and and and his 176 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: inflated his ego. Is there an argument there? What would 177 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: you tell them in response? Are they wrong? Well, you know, 178 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: and and we heard Haggerdy say yesterday also the afghanist 179 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 1: in withdraw as botched as that was, or bungled as 180 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: that was. And you know, if they assumed that that 181 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: was who Joe Biden was, and they could just waltz 182 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: into Ukraine, I think Joe Biden has proven in the 183 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: last few weeks, if not months, that that is not 184 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: the case. So yes, he can revisit key aspects of 185 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: his energy policy. Be bungled withdraw from ESK Afghanistan was 186 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: a problem, you know. I would also just raise what 187 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: I think is a critical challenge for the United States 188 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden has got to address, which is how 189 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: spread can we be across the world If we are 190 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: going to be in an indefinite challenge, and with Russia 191 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: in Ukraine and China chooses to do any action in 192 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: terms of Taiwan or elsewhere, how far spread can the 193 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: United States be? It's critically important that we have allied support, 194 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: which is something he has been building up. But there 195 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: comes a point of of, you know, a return where 196 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: we just simply don't have the capacity, and that's something 197 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: he's going to have to address. What do you think, 198 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: Rick Davis to Joe Biden invite were enable this type 199 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: of behavior with his own policies. Look, I mean, you know, 200 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: we just came through four years of Donald Trump enabling 201 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin in virtually every capacity. Oh he ought to 202 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:12,599 Speaker 1: be a part of the G seven. Let's make it 203 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: the guy's a hilarious guy at dinner. I mean really, 204 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: I mean, like, you know, we got Haggardy, a Republican, 205 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: you know, attacking the policies of the Biden administration when 206 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: when it comes to rush, four years of Vladimir Putin 207 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: stuck ups to Donald Trump. So look, what we need 208 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: is a continuous policy over time, Right, American presidents need 209 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: to have some kind of continuity in their foreign policy 210 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: national security, especially when it comes to aggressors like Vladimir Putin. 211 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 1: Rick and Janie are with a signature panel for the hour. Next, 212 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: we're joined by Congresswoman Marcy Captor, Democrat from Ohio, a 213 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: member of the Congressional Ukrainian Caucus and a friend of 214 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: President Zelenski will get her view, having emerged from an 215 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: important hearing of briefing on this yesterday. I'm Joe Matthew. 216 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg. So no with Joe 217 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The headline on the terminal NATO 218 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: says europe security crisis is new normal. You heard Yan 219 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: Stoltenberg earlier this hour, the Secretary General telling reporters as 220 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: much this morning in Brussels, says the situation in Ukraine 221 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: shows this is the new normal in Europe, even as 222 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: Russia claims to be de escalating. Let's talk about all 223 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: of this with Representative Marcy Captor, Democrat from Ohio's ninth 224 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: congressional district that stretches from Toledo to Cleveland. And the 225 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,599 Speaker 1: congresswoman is a member of the Ukrainian Caucus, as you 226 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: might remember from our previous conversation, as well, the longest 227 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: serving woman in the history of Congress. Representative Captor, thank 228 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: you for being back with us. Do you believe anything 229 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: you're hearing from Moscow right now? Is Ukraine still under 230 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: the same threat level as it was before we heard 231 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: talk of the escalation? I believe it is under the 232 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: same threat level and even greater, with the largest cyber 233 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: attack ever experiencing Cranian history happening yesterday in the day before. 234 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: How much damage did that attack to Well, you know, 235 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: it's constant interference by Russia, both with arms and with 236 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: the disruption of normal life. And the people of Ukraine 237 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: are very enduring people. But the Russians try It's like drip, drip, drip. 238 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: It's like its form of torture. They can never have 239 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: a normal life. It interrupts the fyline. Uh. The canceling 240 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: of flights from abroad was a very um. Was received 241 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: with great trepidation by the people of Ukraine. They are 242 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: stalwart people. They have been through so much. No nation 243 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: suffered more during the last century than did that region 244 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: of the world. So um, what Stalin did to the 245 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: people that were under the communist dictatorship most of the 246 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 1: West doesn't even know about it was horrendous. And this 247 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: is merely a continuation of that kind of bullying and 248 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: uh uh, murderous behavior by the government of Russia right now. 249 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: So that the people of Ukraine are enduring, they are 250 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: strong and they will fight, but they are outgunned because 251 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: they don't have the weaponry of Russia. And how is 252 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: that cyber attack not an active war? Congresswoman, should that 253 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: not be treated as an act of war, as a 254 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: provocation that might trigger sanctions or maybe a reciprocal attack. 255 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: I think the United States and our allies should play 256 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: severe sanctions additionally on the Russian oligarchy. And we could 257 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: do everything possible to um uh make Nordstream to uh 258 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: nonfunctional um and to bolster Ukraine's defenses in order to 259 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: preserve her sovereignty, which she so deserves. And uh, but 260 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: the situation is increasingly volatile. And just like in the 261 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: United States where some supply lines have been interrupted simply 262 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: because of the pandemic. Uh. Can you imagine the pandemic 263 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: without the medical facilities that we have, plus the interference 264 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: by Russia, It's made life in Ukraine much more difficult, 265 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: terribly isolating, and it sounds dangerous. Congresswoman, I know you 266 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: hosted an important briefing yesterday of virtual briefing with a 267 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: bipartisan group of House members more than forty House offices. 268 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: I understand we're involved, and it also included the Ukrainian 269 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: ambassador to the US. How concerned are you at this 270 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: point of of an endless standoff here when we talk 271 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: about a new normal, can this standoff go on indefinitely? 272 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: And what is the Ukrainian ambassador to the US asking for? Well? 273 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: First of all, UH, she conducts herself with utter poise UM. 274 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: John Kennedy defined courage as grace under pressure. She has 275 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: that she has that. What what an astounding ambassador she is? 276 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: Every American get to know Ambassador Markarova of Ukraine. UM. 277 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: I think that UH. Frankly, Ukraine is looking for additional 278 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: UM weapons to UH defend themselves against UH the Russian 279 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: onslaught UH. They are looking for assistance in terms of technology. UM. 280 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: They are very worried about the increased Russian mobilization UH 281 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: in three regions that could they could invade from any 282 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: region right UM across the Ukraine border. And UH they 283 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: are looking for UM reassurance UH from our allies in 284 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: Europe under NATO, for example, that UM military UH instruction 285 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: will not be completely absent from the country. They're asking 286 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: for more help from the media. They're asking for more 287 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: voices of freedom understood. Why aren't they getting the weapons 288 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: that they need? Are we not providing certain elements they're 289 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: asking for, they are receiving weapons, but the West has 290 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: been very careful in not providing the kinds of weapons 291 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: that would exact a further Russian retaliation to provide Ukraine 292 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: with um uh javelins for example, and stingers um but 293 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: there are other weapons that are even more lethal, and 294 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: she is asking for those. Ukraine is asking for those. 295 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: So in a stand to what Russia is doing is 296 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,719 Speaker 1: militarizing the region much more than it was before. If 297 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: they keep adding to their true presence their congresswoman, what's 298 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: the end game for Vladimir Putin? If it's not invasion, 299 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: That's a good question. I guess you'd have to ask him. 300 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: But I think it's definitely intimidation and flexing his muscles 301 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: to other nations that are much smaller Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, 302 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: Poland of course the nations he's already invaded Armenia, Moldova 303 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: and Georgia. Uh. It's it's to throw his weight around 304 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: in a way and to take command of the blackf Sea, 305 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: which is very important to Turkey into other nations in 306 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: the region, and to push to the Baltic to push 307 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: to the Baltic Sea. And this is deeply worrisome to 308 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: our allies in NATO. There's your new normal. I guess, uh, 309 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: you know, you're a bit of an outlier, if I'm 310 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: if I'm understanding you correctly. Congresswoman as a Democrat, uh 311 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: to to favor sanctions now, that seems to have been 312 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: one of the biggest sticking points that that kind of 313 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: blew up negotiations over a sanctions bill in the Senate 314 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: Foreign Relations Committee. Do you believe Vladimir Putin does deserve 315 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: sanctions now? And I guess, is there anything Congress can 316 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: do at this point? Well, I think the point about 317 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: the cyber attack being a form of significant warfare is 318 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: extremely important, and I don't think that it should just 319 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: be left on the table. I think that we have 320 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: to play severe sanctions on the Russian oiligarchy. I leave 321 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: it up to the administration um not knowing every negotiation 322 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: that's going on by every leader that's involved in the 323 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: European countries. You know, we're not necessarily privy to that 324 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: in the Congress. So I think that there's a very 325 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: careful diplomatic balance being worked here. We have to respect it. 326 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: But we in the Congress have always led uh, the 327 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: defense of Ukraine. What are you going back to Ukraine? Congresswomen. 328 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: Is the presence of American officials important there at this 329 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: time or is it too dangerous? Very important? And we 330 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: were invited by the Parliament, And once President Biden leaves 331 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: my district, my first phone call is going to be 332 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: to the State Department to find out, well, what are 333 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: the portals in That's right, you're preparing for a presidential visit, 334 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: aren't you. Yes? And here in Ohio, the President will 335 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: be coming to northern Ohio, to Lorraine, Ohio, the home 336 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: of the Admiral of the U. S. Navy during World 337 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: War Two, Ernest King's, the home of Tony Morrison, the 338 00:19:54,520 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: great poet Laures and also uh, Harry Helen he len 339 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: Steiner writes, a great American writer. So we're very awkward 340 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: that he is coming to this great community. Where's Tom 341 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: Keane when we need him? Uh? Congresswoman, I know that 342 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: you serve on appropriations. I'd like to ask you about 343 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: the likelihood of a budget getting done here. Even the 344 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: Continuing Resolution was held up this week over something involving 345 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: crack pipes. We saw a Senator Blackburn and now Senator 346 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: Rubio holding it up because of these uh these smoking 347 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: safe smoking kits that the administration was going to pay 348 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: for and provide to those in need. Apparently they do 349 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: not include crack pipes. But our government funding is being 350 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: held up because of it. Yes, and there are many 351 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: other contrivers and an appropriator. I can assure you there 352 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: are many other what we call anomalies and writers that 353 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: some people are objecting to. The base bills are fundamentally done. 354 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: I just learned today about a provision I care very 355 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: much about it, maybe at risk. So we are in 356 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: the final moments of trying to clear our bills, and 357 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: it is talking about a shutdown though, right Do you 358 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: think this will be done by Friday? Um? I can 359 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: tell you I tried to recharge for de Lauro of 360 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: Connecticut just now and it was impossible that she was 361 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: on the phone with others, So believe me, they're working 362 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: very hard to get it done for the sake of 363 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: the country. She didn't take my call today either, congress Woman. 364 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: That means, by the way, if this gets done, do 365 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: you have a budget in place by March eleventh? Uh? Well, 366 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: hopefully we'll receive the president's budget. I know they've been 367 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: working on that. Do you mean a budget for two No, 368 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: I mean an omnibus for for the for the current 369 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: fiscal year, as bizarre as that might be here in 370 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: the month of February, right, that is the goal that 371 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 1: everyone is working towards. Yes, Congresswoman Marcy Captor from Ohio, 372 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: we appreciate your being with us, Thanks for the insights today, 373 00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: and thanks for coming back to talk to us. Some 374 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's soround on panels still here, Rick and Genie, I'm 375 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: not sure if we learned a lot about the standoff 376 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: with Ukraine, but it really brings you inside the debate 377 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: around sanctions. Genie, when you hear Marcy Captor expressing as 378 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: a Democrat disappointment like that she'd like to see sanctions now, 379 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: she would, and you know, the longest serving woman in Congress, 380 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 1: you've got to give it up to Representative Captor, and 381 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: she she really does make a claim about sanctions that 382 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: we haven't heard from many Democrats. And of course the 383 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 1: White House has been reluctant to push for sanctions prior 384 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: to an incursion or invasion into Ukraine, and they remain 385 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: stuck at that. But maybe this round of cyber attacks, 386 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, when she underscores how devastating and disruptive they are. 387 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: She made a really good point about if she's like 388 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: canceling of flights, the impact on their way of life, 389 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: the economy and other things, the isolation that this may 390 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: be the sort of the straw that breaks the camel's back, 391 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: and we may see some movement towards sanctions, but we 392 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: haven't heard that signal from the White House. Rick we 393 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: heard from again with a Senator Mark Warner, who who 394 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: spoke with Bloomberg on Monday, was out doing other media 395 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: today and and brought up Article five again as a 396 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: as a possibility if a major cyber attack hit Ukraine 397 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: and IT and it, you know cyber attacks, as he says, 398 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: don't know borders. Let's say it knocks the lights out 399 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: and impacts business, commerce, and government in Poland, for instance, 400 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: How how obligated would we be to respond? Well, first 401 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: of all, UH, we would respond in defense of those 402 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: countries that have Article five, the NATO countries, and so 403 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: we would do everything we can to use our technology 404 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: UH to both recover and defend in a cyber attack. 405 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: I think NATO has the same attitude that the congresswoman has, 406 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: which is a cyber attack as an attack. It's just 407 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: a different form of attack. And so, uh, that's one thing, 408 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: but two, I mean, we have to assume that the 409 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: same thing can happen here, right. Absolutely. There's an interesting 410 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: thing called shields Up, which is a warning the government 411 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: puts out to the cyber community when they think that 412 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: there could be an eminent international threat and and shields 413 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 1: are up. And this is not Star Trek, this is 414 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: real life. And so so I think it's one of 415 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: these things that you know, when you talked about new normal, Joe, 416 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: this has been the new normal. Russia has been attacking 417 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: their neighbors NATO countries for some time. The Baltics have 418 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: been under severe cyber attacks for a long time. So 419 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: I think now maybe the time that the rest of 420 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: the world starts to focus on their bad behavior and 421 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: their mar line influences and say now is the time 422 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: to stop. Rick Davis Genie Shenzeno with us here our 423 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: panel on the Wednesday edition of Bloomberg Sound On. We're 424 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: wondering if the federal government is about to catch up 425 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: with the States once it's the other way around. As 426 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: I read the headline on the terminal States break ranks 427 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: on COVID rules despite scientific doubt. We've talked about this, 428 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 1: as Madison Muller asks, too. Years into a global pandemic, 429 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: states and cities are struggling to answer a critical question, 430 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: how do you know when to return to normal life? 431 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: A lot of people are not waiting to find out, 432 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: as we've told you. States with some of the most 433 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: stringent mask rules New York, California, Connecticut pulling back mandates 434 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: today Anthony Fauci seeing light at the end of the tunnel, 435 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: and Rochelle Wilenski says, yes. New guidance is being crafted 436 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: as we speak. We are assessing the most important factors 437 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: based on where we are in the pandemic, and we'll 438 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: soon put guidance in place that is relevant and encourages 439 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: prevention measures when they are most needed to protect public 440 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: health and our hospitals. Joining us to talk about it's 441 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: Katrine Wallace, epidemiologist and adjunct Assistant professor, University of Illinois, 442 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: Chicago School of Public Health. KATRINEA, It's great to have 443 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: you with us. I appreciate your time. Are the states 444 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: on the right side of history? Here? Is the federal 445 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: government going to kind of go along with what's happening 446 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: on on more local level. So one thing that we 447 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: need to understand, and that I don't think it's been 448 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: well communicated during this pandemic, is that risk of COVID 449 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: nineteen is local, and so guidance really should be brought 450 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: forth by transmission and risk of infection, which is really 451 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: not a national phenomenon. It really is a local phenomenon. 452 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: Well that's kind of where we are then, right is 453 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: the federal government about to get out of the business 454 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: of providing guidance. This is going to come down to 455 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: state governments and counties. So I think that the government, 456 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: the government does serve an important purpose. And I think 457 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: that having guard rails in place to know when to 458 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: move up and down in our mitigations in terms of 459 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: you know, when we mitigations for pandemic is really on 460 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: a continuum. The more transmission and the more risk, the 461 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: more layers of mitigation we need. And the federal government 462 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: could do the all the health departments in the country 463 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 1: a great service by putting something in place that helps 464 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: them to know when is a good time to move 465 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: up and down in the mitigation. Even here in d C, 466 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: where I am sitting right now, the District of Columbia, 467 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: we're gonna have our indoor mask mandate come down. It 468 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: appears of February. As an epidemiologist, we're talking d C, 469 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: New York's, you know, some of the major cities that 470 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: are dealing with this. Does this make you nervous? I 471 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: think that we are seeing positive trends in the data. 472 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: And I actually looked at DC's data yesterday because somebody 473 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: else asked me this question, and it actually looks pretty 474 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: good in DC right now. I think that people need 475 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: to remember that you can people can always still wear masks, 476 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: even if it's not a mandate. It's not you know, 477 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: just because somebody says you don't have to doesn't mean 478 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: you shouldn't. But um, I think that as long as 479 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: when mandates are put into place or taken out of practice, 480 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: I think it's important to make sure that these are 481 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: done systematically and backed with public health science and not arbitrarily. 482 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: The point though, is, as our story references today, there 483 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: are no clear data points for exactly when it's appropriate 484 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: to take off a mask. I mean, we are dealing 485 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: with some gray area here, and then that's where I 486 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: think the CDC could really do an important service for 487 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: everybody if they put something like that into place, a 488 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: guidance that everyone can follow. For example, in Chicago, we 489 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: do have guardrails like that which inform mitigation practices and 490 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: it works really well. There's different indicators that are watched, 491 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: and if they stay in a low transmission um they say, 492 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: in the low transmission category for more than two weeks, 493 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: we know it's okay to move down and and so forth. 494 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: So it actually is backed in public health science. And 495 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: by the time you move from one mitigation level to 496 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: the to the next, you know that it's you know, 497 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: you've been watching the data and following the science. It's 498 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: a great fear Katrine that you take these mandates away 499 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: and then the next variant shows up. How do you 500 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: get people back in the habit once you've told them 501 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: it's safe to go back in the water. Yes, And 502 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: that's where I think, going back to what I was 503 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: saying at the beginning, is that we haven't done a 504 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: great job of explaining that you know, risk is local 505 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: and this is all on a continuum. So that's why 506 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: the CDC, if they do put out some kind of 507 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: guidance telling people that these are the measures that we 508 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: that we follow them either way. Right, if we have 509 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: the guard whales in place, we can follow them to 510 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: take them away and also to bring them back as 511 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: transmission and risks also increase. Katrine Wallace, Epidemiologist, adjunct Assistant Professor, 512 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: University of Illinois, Chicago School of Public Health. We thank 513 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: you for bringing your expertise to the conversation today here 514 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington. Glad 515 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: you're with us. We're going to reassemble the panel coming 516 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: up here as we get their take on this. You 517 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: might have hered today Virginia, the new governor g Youngcan, 518 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: who ran on dropping these mandates, signed a law requiring 519 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: public schools to make masks optional. We'll talk about that 520 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: and the budgeting process held up by crack pipes. Do 521 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: you hear the congresswoman talk about this. This is a 522 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: real conversation among grown ups in Washington. Right now. We'll 523 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: play it against the panel. Rick and Janie are back 524 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: after we check traffic and markets for you. On Bloomberg. 525 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew, and this is Bloombird. This is Bloomberg 526 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio the politics 527 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: of COVID. Virginia's new Governor, Glen Youncan today signed a 528 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: law requiring public schools to make masks optional by the 529 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: beginning of March. This is about empowering parents, and we're 530 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: doing it across the commonwealth. The great thing is if 531 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: your child, uh should if you choose your child shouldn't 532 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: wear a mask, you can make that decision. And if 533 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: you want your child to wear a mask, you can 534 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: make that decision. Is oh, and that's what Virginia is 535 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: all about. Let's thought Virginia is for lovers. The legislation 536 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: passed on a largely party line vote, nineteen Republicans three Democrats, 537 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: replacing Youngcan's executive order that he put in place on 538 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: day one that essentially did the same thing, making good 539 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: on a campaign promise. It's partly why you won. But 540 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: that executive order was being challenged in a series of lawsuits. 541 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: Now it's the law. Let's reassemble the panel with Bloomberg 542 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: Politics contributor Jeanie Chanzano and Rick Davis with us for 543 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: the hour good politics. Here for Glenn you can, Rick, 544 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: As I mentioned, it helped him become the governor of Virginia. 545 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: Will more states follow? Yeah, I think more states will follow. 546 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: I think we're seeing a confluence of people who are 547 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: relaxing about the COVID restrictions, all across the political spectrum, 548 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: Republicans and Democrats alike. The real question is, is there 549 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: any reason uh for the CDC the federal government to 550 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: intercede in this avier right? Why not let the states 551 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: do what they think is right for their communities. What 552 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: do you think, Cheny, Is it good politics? Well, it's 553 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: not just Republican governors who are doing this, as we've discussed, 554 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: it's many democratic states along in the Northeast, along the 555 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: Eastern seaboard, even here in Washington. Before the end of 556 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: this month, the indoor mask mandate will be lifted. I 557 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: realized we're talking schools here in Virginia. But based on 558 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: our conversation with the epidemiologist, is it time for the 559 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: feds to catch up to the states? They sounded today 560 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: like they may start to catch up with the states. 561 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: But just to play devil's advocate here with the understanding 562 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,479 Speaker 1: I am tired of wearing a mask, let us just 563 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: say that when we're talking schools, we're talking a majority 564 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: of kids who are unvaccinated, they remain vulnerable. You know, 565 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: numbers are way down, but still a hundred and forty 566 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: thousand a day. That's down from a million. That's great. 567 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: But at the peak of Dalton September, we were at 568 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: a hundred and forty thousand a day and nobody talked 569 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: like this. So I do think the CDC has a 570 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: right to be following the science and you know, on 571 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: the politics of it. That said, on on the science 572 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: of on the politics of it, Yuncan is absolutely right. 573 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: And let's just look at what happened in San Francisco 574 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: with the ouster of these three members of the Board 575 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: of Education yesterday suggesting that parents, you know, turn out 576 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: certainly was probably not as high as it might be 577 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: in other elections, but you know, sixties of people turning 578 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: out and that vote OUs did these Board of Education members, 579 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: not necessarily over vaccine mandates are masking, but because they 580 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,959 Speaker 1: didn't feel the board was acting responsibly. So, you know, 581 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: I do think this is smart politics. But on the 582 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: science of it, I do think there's reason for scientists 583 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: to be skeptical. Our producer Christine points out Coachella, the 584 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: music festival, plans to return with no masks or vaccines required. 585 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: I read today Disney Disney's dropping the mask mandate. The 586 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: reopening story Rick is real. If it's good for Mickey, 587 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,719 Speaker 1: it's good for Rick. Well, okay, see there you go. 588 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of a bell weather though, isn't it. 589 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: It's like when we heard the end be A was 590 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: shutting down going into COVID. When you hear Disney is 591 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: taking the mask off, does that mean we're back? Yeah? 592 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: I think. Look, I mean I think we're entering into 593 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: a period of time where a society norm has to 594 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: be achieved in order to create balance between where we 595 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: are with the science and where we are, you know, 596 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: with getting on with work and in life. And so 597 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,879 Speaker 1: I do think guidance from the CDC is important. But 598 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: like we've just gone through two years of following explicit 599 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: rules associated with the CDC and and arguably it got 600 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: us to where we are today, which is uh, the 601 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: third year of a pandemic in our country, And so 602 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: is it an endemic now? And are we going to 603 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: treat it as such? And I think that's what you're 604 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: seeing as a confluence where the politics no longer divides us. 605 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: What divides us is really, um, you know, our anxiety 606 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: to get back to work and and and start shedding 607 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: some of the limitations we've had due to COVID. All right, 608 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: we're gonna switch gears here to something that you might 609 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 1: not believe unless you've been following this as I mean, 610 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: the headlines you find on this terminal, Asians France Press, 611 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: imagine what they're saying. Overseas debate over crack pipes holding 612 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: up funding of US federal government. The Republicans in the 613 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: Senate threatening to block government funding. This is the continuing resolution. 614 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: Government set to run out of money this weekend after 615 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: accusing the Biden administration of planning to use some of 616 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: this money for an unusual budget item to buy and 617 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: provide crack pipes. This all started last week a conservative 618 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 1: media outlet published an article it was not a government document, 619 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: saying that the US AD allocated thirty million dollars to 620 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: buy pipes for people to use to smoke crack. What 621 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: Nighties movie are we in right now? Senator Marsha Blackburn, 622 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: Republican from Tennessee, jumps on it. This is from the 623 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: Senate floor last week, one week ago, exactly, just yesterday, 624 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: I had to send a letter to Health and Human 625 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: Services demanding to know contacts bayered dollars are funding fresh 626 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: crack pipes for drug addict and HHS spokesman has confirmed 627 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: that the agency is pushing a grant program that would 628 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: fund so called smoking kids. That's correct, with pipes for 629 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: users to smoke crystal myth, crack, cocaine, and I quote 630 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: any illicit substances. The kids are real, but apparently according 631 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: to the White House as well as the Department of 632 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: Health and Human Services, there are no pipes inside of 633 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: the kits. White House Press Secretary Jensaki later that day, 634 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: one of Senator Blackburn's primary concerns is about a relation 635 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: to the set to the funding of crack pipes. Is 636 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: this correct? Which is not an issue? Well? Senator Blackburn 637 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: dropped the hold. Another Senator, Marco Rubio, has added his 638 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: own and came out with a Twitter video. This is 639 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: four days ago, long after the White House and HHS 640 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: denied this. The Bide administration is going to be sending 641 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 1: crack pipes and meth pipes targeting minority communities in this country, 642 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: underserved communities. I know that sounds insane. I know that 643 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,720 Speaker 1: sounds too crazy to be true. They confirmed it yesterday. 644 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: They're gonna call them smoking kids, and they say it's 645 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: about equity. But they have an essence confirmed that they're 646 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: going to be mailing and send essence pipes that can 647 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: be used to smoke crack and meth in essence. They 648 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: did not confirm that. They said that's actually wrong. It 649 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: came up again in the White House briefly. Can you 650 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 1: clarify for us which were they never a part of 651 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: the kid or were they removed in response to this 652 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: reporting and this push batts. They were never a part 653 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: of the kid. It was inaccurate reporting and we wanted 654 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: to put out information to make that clear. Pretty straightforward 655 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: from Jensaki. All this talk of pipes, I don't know. 656 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: Maybe it's because I'm from Boston. I can only think 657 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 1: of once pipes, pipes. What are we talking about here? 658 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: This is government funding that's being held up. And after 659 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: we discussed this with Marcy Captor a little bit earlier 660 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: in the hour, she's not sure it's gonna get done. 661 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: Rick Davis Jeannie Shenzino are still with us. Rick, um, 662 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: is this real? Sure? What's real? Is people brand standing 663 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: in Congress? Shocking and but you don't see a government 664 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,959 Speaker 1: shutdown coming or anything of the Well, I think people 665 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,320 Speaker 1: are taking advantage of the fact that everyone's watching government 666 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 1: shutdown and and so they've got seventy two hours to 667 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: make a big deal about this. And and you know 668 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 1: who can blame Marco Rubio for following up on Marshall 669 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: Blackburn's coattails. Uh, And and and look, I mean it 670 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: is a ridiculous thing. Uh. They get a lot of 671 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: credit for looking like they're defending minority communities in their state, 672 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: even though they're really not defending minority communities. I would 673 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: say the notion of putting into the line item a 674 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: something called safe smoking kits might not have been the 675 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: best word. You're kind of begging for this, and you 676 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: got what you got. My my, My guess is people 677 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: will now calm down, and you'll have a Friday vote 678 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: on this cr and people will leave town thinking what 679 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: a strange week we had in Washington. Well, wouldn't be 680 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: the first time we thought that, Genie, But what are 681 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: they getting out of this? Is there this good politics? 682 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 1: Even though it's been it's been made clear that this 683 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: is not true. It has been made clear. It sounds 684 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: like a headline straight out of the onion when you 685 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: say the entire budget being called up for crack pipes 686 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: and you know, God bless Mark or Rubio. When you're 687 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: running for re election, this is what you do. And 688 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: you know it shouldn't be lost on us that Rubio 689 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,959 Speaker 1: and Joe Mansion introduced a bill called the Pipes Act 690 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: Preventing Illicit Paraphernalia for Exchange Systems. Yeah, so you know, 691 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,800 Speaker 1: I agree with record. This is not going to hold 692 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: up too much. It is going to be, you know, 693 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: something they use for as long as they can for 694 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: electoral purposes. Um. And you know we will get a resolution, 695 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: but let's not forget we are getting a continuing resolution 696 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: to keep the government open for a little bit more time. 697 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 1: We are not getting the budget we needed. And you know, 698 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: you hear people like Pa Trick Leahy and others who 699 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: have been in Congress a long time throwing up their 700 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: hands saying I've never seen anything like this when I 701 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: first came and yet here we are today and people 702 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: interested in you know, uh, going on about their electoral 703 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: business instead of the business of the country. Wow. Uh. 704 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: In terms of the broader budget, though the omnibus, you've 705 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: been pretty optimistic about this for a couple of weeks here, Rick, 706 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: Did they get this done by March eleventh, it would 707 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: actually be an accomplishment. Yeah, I think they will. I mean, 708 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 1: they've got the numbers now on the top line figured out. 709 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,879 Speaker 1: They're doing all the allocations by committee. The committee will then, 710 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: you know, put the money into the measurements that they 711 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: use for different programs. So it's the hard parts done, 712 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,320 Speaker 1: getting the sort of agreement between parties on spending. I 713 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,959 Speaker 1: would say I'm a little surprised this administration hasn't pushed 714 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: harder on Congress to get this done before the President's 715 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: planning State of the Union on March one. That would 716 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,760 Speaker 1: be an accomplishment that he would want to talk about 717 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: in the in the State of the Union. Rick Davis, 718 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: Genie Shenzano our signature panel with us here on bloom 719 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 1: or sound On. Thanks to both of you, as always 720 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: for the insights. February is Black History Month. Every day 721 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: this month we're celebrating significant moments in US black history. 722 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 1: Now with your installment for this Wednesday, it is the 723 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: sixteenth of February. Been looking forward to hearing from Bloomberg's 724 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: need a Young on this day in Black history. In 725 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty one, the New York City Council passes a 726 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: bill prohibiting discrimination against African Americans and city assisted housing. 727 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,760 Speaker 1: The bill was mainly directed at the Stuyvesant Town Housing project. 728 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: At the time of public private partnership. Project managers of 729 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: that development prohibited black tenants who had been active in 730 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: the campaign to stop racial discrimination. Lawsuits were filed claiming 731 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: that the project was public or semi public and thus 732 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: violated anti discrimination laws from New York City public housing, 733 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: which were rarely enforced. One month later, the Brown Isaac's 734 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: Bill became law in New York City. That's today in 735 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,320 Speaker 1: black history. I'm we need a young Bloomberg Radio. Thanks 736 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: for Nita. We'll see get back here tomorrow. This is Bloomberg.