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Speaker 1: And now Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Move to six podcasts. I'm Bucky Brooks and

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Speaker 1: today I am joined by one of my favorite college

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Speaker 1: football writer extraordinary, Bruce Felman. How are you doing? I'm

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Speaker 1: doing great. Good to be on with you. I feel like, uh,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I don't get to talk to you

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Speaker 1: guys enough, but I always feel like it's a big

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Speaker 1: football fix for me. Yeah, it's so many different things,

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Speaker 1: um that we can get into, like obviously naturally and

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Speaker 1: our else we're talking about the draft and you're seeing

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Speaker 1: the college guys kind of make their way. But before

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Speaker 1: we can even get into that, UM, I gotta ask

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Speaker 1: you this because I haven'ten had a chance to call you, like,

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Speaker 1: what do you think of the college football landscape right now?

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Speaker 1: I feel like it is the wild wild West, and

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Speaker 1: I cannot even keep up with what's going on between

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Speaker 1: the transfer portal in I L and just the steady

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Speaker 1: stream of conversation around people moving going, coaches trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to handle the new way of this

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Speaker 1: college football world. What are your thoughts on what's going on?

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Speaker 1: It's total chaos at this point and a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff that would go on behind the scenes. I feel

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Speaker 1: like or underneath the table amount. You know, the running joke,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know it was a joke, and I

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Speaker 1: L stands for now it's legal. So now you have

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Speaker 1: a lot of boosters and a lot of a lot

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Speaker 1: of people involved in the process. I think the front

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Speaker 1: end of it where N I L was going, um,

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Speaker 1: where you had a lot of athletes, you know, not

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Speaker 1: just in football and other sports, getting compensation for different

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Speaker 1: things that they were doing. I think that is kind

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Speaker 1: of where people were expecting it to go. And then

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Speaker 1: I think where coaches knew it was eventually going to go.

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Speaker 1: And this has probably gotten this way sooner than maybe

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Speaker 1: some expected, was that other people are gonna get involved.

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Speaker 1: And I remember Bucky and you you know this time,

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Speaker 1: this is a good like time stamp for both of us.

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Speaker 1: Is the day before the Elite, even the first night

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Speaker 1: of the Elite eleven and we're at Mira Costa and

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Speaker 1: I remember I had filed the story. I talked to

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Speaker 1: a couple of college coaches and it was on the

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Speaker 1: It was basically on the eve of N I L

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Speaker 1: kind of kicking in. They remember one specifically, said, if

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Speaker 1: you know we you know, are boosters. You guys complain

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Speaker 1: about you know, the best recruits leaving our area to

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Speaker 1: go someplace else. Now it's like, you've got no excuses.

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Speaker 1: It's put up or shut up. You want to do

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Speaker 1: something about it, you can do something about it. And

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Speaker 1: I remember filing that story and I was out on

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Speaker 1: the high school field there. Um, it was the first night.

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Speaker 1: I just remember, you know, here's you know, Millik Willis

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Speaker 1: and there's dtr and all these guys. And I remember

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Speaker 1: talking to my editor and she was like, but that's

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Speaker 1: not really how this rule is written, and this is

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Speaker 1: not like and I was like, I'm just telling me

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Speaker 1: what they're telling. This is where it is going, this

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Speaker 1: is what this is what is going to happen. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know how quickly it got out, but you know,

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Speaker 1: you'd hear story ys after the fact of yeah, these

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Speaker 1: players were you know, these high school recruits got paid

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Speaker 1: x in September to commit to such and such and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, you know, and you've seen

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Speaker 1: and we know who some of the players are. Now

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Speaker 1: we're getting seven figure deals and they have agents and

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Speaker 1: lawyers working on their behalf to do these deals and

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Speaker 1: and you know you have some of these agents now

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Speaker 1: taken top recruits, are highly ranked recruits. Have you want

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Speaker 1: to refer to them on shopping sprees where they're being

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Speaker 1: basically shopped around two different schools. Who's going to jump

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Speaker 1: in the bidding? Can these agents get the bidding war

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Speaker 1: up higher into four six million dollars? You know? At

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Speaker 1: that at that price, you know, And I'm sitting there

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Speaker 1: thinking and Bucky, you know your your your's immersed in

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Speaker 1: this as anybody um seeing the kids at that at

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Speaker 1: that level, I'm thinking, man, for that price, I hope

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Speaker 1: this kid is gonna be Cam Newton for them, because

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Speaker 1: that is a ton you're putting on people. And the

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Speaker 1: other end I see and you you know, you see

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Speaker 1: these guys at the opening every year is if you

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Speaker 1: look at the hit rate on five star quarterbacks, just

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Speaker 1: the quarterbacks the ten years, maybe it's thirty live up

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Speaker 1: to that kind of hype. I'm not saying that the

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Speaker 1: other seventy don't end up starting or playing a little

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Speaker 1: or whatever, but to expect Trevor Lawrence justin fields to

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Speaker 1: be those guys, it usually doesn't happen. And that is

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Speaker 1: before all of this expectation and extra and I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying they don't deserve it. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, now you're putting a lot on the

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Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen year old who are thrown in the middle

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Speaker 1: to deal with it. And so, you know, when I

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Speaker 1: talk about the chaos, I think there's chaos on the

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Speaker 1: coaching side, there's chaos on the roster management side, there's

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Speaker 1: absolute chasts on the booster side. And I can only

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Speaker 1: imagine what the cast is like for the high school

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Speaker 1: recruiting their families. Yeah, so Bruce should talk about being

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Speaker 1: in the world like I'm currently going through it. And

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Speaker 1: on a smaller level, the high school where a coach

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Speaker 1: Granada Hills Charter, which John always alma mater, we have

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Speaker 1: a pretty prominent UH recruit that has a lot of

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Speaker 1: coaches coming through and we haven't got to the point

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Speaker 1: where n I led as a factor, but it is

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Speaker 1: always kind of looming in the background because when coaches

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Speaker 1: come through, they talk about you know, we I'm having

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Speaker 1: conversations with them before the recruit comes in and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what's going on, and they're like, it's crazy and someone

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Speaker 1: saying like it's crazy because you know, we can't really

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Speaker 1: take many high school guys. But then if you get

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Speaker 1: in the portal, it is maybe fifty K at a

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Speaker 1: minimum to to talk to a running back or somebody

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Speaker 1: like that. And I'm like, k the minimum, like and

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Speaker 1: so then it's this free agent frenzy that I'm used

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Speaker 1: to dealing with from an NFL level, but now that

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Speaker 1: is what's happening at the collegiate level. And then you

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Speaker 1: look around and you're just seeing all of the stuff

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Speaker 1: that's popping up. So you have the kid Addison from

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Speaker 1: pitt who wins the bulletinic golf and he's done everything

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Speaker 1: at Pittsburgh to be a guy that is like one

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Speaker 1: of their top draft picks. And oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting some interest other places. Let me jump in

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Speaker 1: the portal and just see what is it. It It doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that I won't go back, but and I just

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Speaker 1: can't imagine as a coach, it just makes it even

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Speaker 1: more challenging to try and figure out, Hey, how do

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Speaker 1: I keep my team together? How do I build a

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Speaker 1: quote unquote team with all of the money flying off

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Speaker 1: the shields, and how do I integrate these new players

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Speaker 1: that are coming in while some of these other guys

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Speaker 1: are going out. I think now the job of being

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Speaker 1: a college coach is more difficult than it's ever been

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Speaker 1: when you come to building a team in a program. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because guys are getting recruited off your roster all the time.

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Speaker 1: Signing Day doesn't actually need that much. It may mean

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Speaker 1: something that you can put out a tweet or you know,

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Speaker 1: coaches maybe get signing bonuses off on how many four

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Speaker 1: or five stars they signed. But I think there's another

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Speaker 1: level of it. And it's funny I talked to when

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Speaker 1: I did some draft stuff. I remember talking to UM,

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Speaker 1: some scouts and some NFL assistant coaches for this Draft

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Speaker 1: confidential story the week of the draft, and it came

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Speaker 1: up about sky More in particular, right, and he was

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Speaker 1: a really good player in the in the group of

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Speaker 1: five level, you know, in the MAC And I remember

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Speaker 1: one position coach said, or I don't know it was

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Speaker 1: a position coach or scout. I remember that comment was

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Speaker 1: along the lines of, you know, I give him a

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Speaker 1: lot of respect and credit. He could have left and

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Speaker 1: gone someplace bigger, and he stayed loyal to them, and

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Speaker 1: he stayed and obviously had a really really good um

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Speaker 1: last year there. But I just remember thinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know of stories, whether it's you know, this linebacker

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Speaker 1: leaves nor to go to State to go play in

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Speaker 1: the SEC you know where he probably would you know,

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Speaker 1: in the year they didn't have a good year, you know,

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Speaker 1: or whatever, and you know, so you see examples. I

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Speaker 1: remember another coach I know I was telling the same

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Speaker 1: story when he was at an SEC school. They took

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Speaker 1: a player from a group of five. It was a quarterback.

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Speaker 1: That kid, you know where he was. He could have

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Speaker 1: easily got drafted in the later round there, he took

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Speaker 1: took a new start, maybe because he had never you know,

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Speaker 1: had the bigger offer. Wasn't even a big it was

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Speaker 1: like a lower level SEC school, still in SEC school though, um,

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Speaker 1: and it didn't work out for him, you know. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, there's the expression the grass is always greener,

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Speaker 1: and I think, as you well know, you know, they

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Speaker 1: will find you if you're really good, right, and so

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Speaker 1: I think you're jumping into different circumstances. But I think

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Speaker 1: it's hard for recruits who maybe weren't big recruits coming

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Speaker 1: out of high school to get that kind of that

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Speaker 1: that buzz around. Now you're adding money into it, you know,

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Speaker 1: Like I remember, um, there was a quarterback years ago.

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Speaker 1: I remember it was a Woodfield Gude Dakota prow Cup. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and dakotas from Austin, Texas. But he was not a

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Speaker 1: big recruit. He started out in Montana State. He's a

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Speaker 1: good athlete, started to blow up and he was coming

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Speaker 1: on the heels of Vernon Adams, who, like you know,

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Speaker 1: Vernon was a little different deal because he had obviously

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Speaker 1: had a great receiver with him, but he torched Pack

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Speaker 1: twelve teams when he played him at Eastern Washington. So

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Speaker 1: people were like, okay, I you know, he may not

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Speaker 1: have ideal height. You probably played against him in high school,

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Speaker 1: you know now that I think, yeah, yeah, so, but

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Speaker 1: Vernon was a you know, like it would be interesting

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Speaker 1: now what Vernon Adams would command if he was coming

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Speaker 1: out of height and coming out of college, you know,

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Speaker 1: five eleven. I don't know what Vernon wade a hundred

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Speaker 1: eighty pounds, but Vernon could paul and he was and

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Speaker 1: he did it against against those teams, right, and you know,

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Speaker 1: Pack twelve teams, and so as Dakota. I remember talking

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Speaker 1: to him, he was looking at Oregon. And also I

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Speaker 1: think Michigan and Alabama came in late on him. And

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Speaker 1: he was a pretty thoughtful kid. And I just remember

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Speaker 1: talking to him and he was just like, man, I

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Speaker 1: got Jim Harbor on the phone, I got Nick Saban.

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Speaker 1: It's just like that's heavy for And I'm not even

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Speaker 1: talking about the money piece. I'm just talking about now

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Speaker 1: all sudden they're really interested in you. Now for for

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Speaker 1: Jordan Addison's specific case, you know, new offensive coordinator, his

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Speaker 1: old offense squinter and went to Nebraska. His position coach,

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Speaker 1: Brendan Marrayan went to Texas. UM, you know there's you know,

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Speaker 1: Kenny Picketts obviously gone on to the NFL. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many of the variables change. I

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Speaker 1: mean you've heard parts about it. How Caleb Williams was

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Speaker 1: the one who is kind of initiating on you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe on behalf of USC to say, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: checking in with you, what are you what are you

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Speaker 1: thinking about doing? This is before he's in the portal.

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Speaker 1: Now he's in the portal. I don't know if it's Alabama,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's Oregon. I assume USC is

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Speaker 1: a big factor and obviously texas a big factor. I

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Speaker 1: mean that's like, it's not like free agency like you

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Speaker 1: guys have you know at NFL, but it is free

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Speaker 1: agency and it is. The stories aren't national, but some

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Speaker 1: of them do get to that radar, like like Jordan

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Speaker 1: Addison certainly has. Yeah, it's it's it's it's an interesting thing,

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Speaker 1: but you know, it's funny. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: remember a few years or at a lead eleven um,

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Speaker 1: and I can't remember if this was an open conversation

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Speaker 1: amongst the quarterbacks where everyone was around, but maybe going

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Speaker 1: back five to six years ago during that class, I

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Speaker 1: remember there was a conversation in open conversation. I can't

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Speaker 1: and I don't want to putno because I don't. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember trend initiative. He was involved in it, so

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Speaker 1: I'll just say it was a loose conversation. But the

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Speaker 1: conversation was to all the quarterbacks, you need to get

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Speaker 1: on a plan where you can graduate in three years.

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Speaker 1: And if you graduate in three years, you now have options.

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Speaker 1: You can graduate in three and go to the NFL.

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Speaker 1: If you're good enough, you can graduate in three and transfer,

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Speaker 1: or you can graduate in three stay where you're at

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Speaker 1: and go and get a master's or a graduate level degree.

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Speaker 1: Why you continue to play, But it was the rush

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Speaker 1: to try and put yourself in a position where at

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Speaker 1: the end of your third year you're a free agent,

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Speaker 1: you have options and opportunities where you're a graduate of

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Speaker 1: one school and you go. I feel like now that

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Speaker 1: plan is certainly in place, and I think that plan

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Speaker 1: is really a smart one for all the kids that

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Speaker 1: have an opportunity to go, because now you have options.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like, now what some kids might lose

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Speaker 1: out on, like Addison. Addison would go down as one

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Speaker 1: of the greatest players in Pittsburgh Panther history if he

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Speaker 1: stays with it, even if he goes, he'll do that.

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Speaker 1: But what he may lose out on is what we

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Speaker 1: call the prestige of being associated with the university forever.

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Speaker 1: Because now you're bouncing around, you don't have that tie.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like from that standpoint, not only the

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Speaker 1: lower DPS, but the life after peace. When you're forty

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Speaker 1: five years old and you want to go back to

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Speaker 1: that school and you recognize as one of those great

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Speaker 1: players in all American they want to put your name

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Speaker 1: up in lights. I wonder how many of these guys

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Speaker 1: will have those opportunities because they kind of chase the

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Speaker 1: quick money and they don't think about like legacy plays

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Speaker 1: down the line. Yeah, I don't know. I mean I

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Speaker 1: think it's hard a lot of times for a twenty

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Speaker 1: year old to to think about that. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: just thinking about it as you were saying it. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not even going back to like the you know,

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Speaker 1: the Dan Marino glory teams. I'm just thinking in in

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Speaker 1: like the last twenty years, you had Antonio O'Brien. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how many people, right, he was, I'm an

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Speaker 1: All college receiver, and then it's Gerald I mean, really

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Speaker 1: could have won the Heisman, and then he obviously went

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Speaker 1: on to have a great NFL career. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a bunch of others. You know, Tyler

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Speaker 1: Boyd was really good. You know, you had guys kind

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Speaker 1: of come through there, but I don't know how much.

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Speaker 1: And I don't want to say this is Tyler, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is um Jordan Addison. You know, just thinking about

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Speaker 1: Jordan Adison and not thinking about anything beyond that, because

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Speaker 1: I think you know, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: if you were to line up all his options and say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you could go to USC and play with Caleb Williams

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Speaker 1: and obviously you know Lincoln Riy's offense and those were

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Speaker 1: you know, like get coached by the same guy who

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Speaker 1: coached Ceedee Lamb and you know, dudes, you know Michael

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Speaker 1: crab Trade. You could go to Alabama. You got a

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Speaker 1: Heisman Trophy winning quarterback. They've had like eight first round

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Speaker 1: receivers in the last like five years. It feels like,

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Speaker 1: right and just and they just lost to great receivers, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, you just lost Mechi and obviously Jamison Williams.

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Speaker 1: So there's a need there. Um, there's Texas where you

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Speaker 1: know you have Starks. Starks been around a bunch of

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Speaker 1: really good offensive players, you have your same position, coach

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Speaker 1: you just work with, helped you into the bulitinic car

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Speaker 1: where you stay there. Where again, um, they're the first

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Speaker 1: ones to really believe in you. I mean, I can

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Speaker 1: remember having a conversation with Patton Ardoozy in an offseason

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Speaker 1: about like, give me somebody to keep an eye on,

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Speaker 1: and Jordan Addison was the one who response. And Jordan

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Speaker 1: Addison's not Larry Fitzgerald in terms of like he's not

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Speaker 1: a not a size he's he's not Jamison Williams explosive

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Speaker 1: and he's a really good athlete, but he's not that.

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Speaker 1: So you know, credit to Pitt. They they developed him,

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Speaker 1: they found him, and they went in on him. And

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Speaker 1: I just think this is the nature of everything where

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Speaker 1: we're at. It's it's honestly, it's hard. It's it'd be

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Speaker 1: hard for me as somebody with a you know, wife

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Speaker 1: and kids to think about like I'm thinking about bottom

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Speaker 1: line stuff. You know, you're in a moment, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's how we live right now.

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Speaker 1: And I mean I think once the kind of toothpaste

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Speaker 1: was out of the tube, it would in Jordan Addison's case,

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Speaker 1: where people even talking before he was even officially in

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Speaker 1: the portal was like, okay, now what now there's mentions

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Speaker 1: of temper, there's allegations of tamper, and there's like even

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Speaker 1: if he decides to come back, I know there's some

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Speaker 1: people there are like, well, if he comes back, is

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Speaker 1: he gonna play like two games and then opt out?

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Speaker 1: Because you know, now you have examples of you know,

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Speaker 1: Jamaar Chase and Michael Parsons, there were great rookies. They

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Speaker 1: didn't play there, you know, the last college football. Now,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying he's them athletically, I think I think

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Speaker 1: Michael Parsons is a generational talent. I think, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think Jamar Chase is differ than Jordan Addison. But

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Speaker 1: I think there's probably examples of people going, you know what,

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Speaker 1: you may not need to play that third year of

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Speaker 1: college football. You know. I mean, I'm not saying he's

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Speaker 1: thinking it, but like, if you're an evaluator, do you

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Speaker 1: really need to see more from Will Anderson to think yeah,

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Speaker 1: I pick I mean probably not. Yeah. It's funny because

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Speaker 1: that was the name that was come to because that's

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Speaker 1: the conversation more and more. UM can't where I read it,

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Speaker 1: but I know there was a conversation like, hey, coming

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Speaker 1: off of the hills of success that we saw with

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Speaker 1: Jamaar Chase and Michael Parsons who didn't play their final years,

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Speaker 1: they basically just trained year around Jamar Chase and particularly

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Speaker 1: trained like a madman. Uh talk to his training, how

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Speaker 1: you changed his body, his explosiveness and those things and

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Speaker 1: how it worked. Will some of these guys, particularly with

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Speaker 1: n I L deals or whatever, where they kind of

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Speaker 1: cash out, go and find the facility to camp out,

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Speaker 1: spend a year becoming the best that they can become

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Speaker 1: as an athlete, then as a player, and then re

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Speaker 1: enter the football landscape as a potential draft pick. You

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Speaker 1: know a guy who set up plays two years and

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Speaker 1: as soon as they popped after those two years, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm done. I'm gonna go train and get ready for

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Speaker 1: the draft. I worry about that, But I also feel

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Speaker 1: like on r N from a scouting standpoint, we're still

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Speaker 1: trying to figure it all out. Because years ago, man,

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Speaker 1: it would be frowned upon if a guy was sit

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Speaker 1: out in a bowl game, if a guy was perceived

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Speaker 1: to be selfish in doing things on his own accord

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Speaker 1: as opposed to doing it with the team, he would

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Speaker 1: be He received the merits in the room when it

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Speaker 1: came to that. And now everyone's like, yeah, so he

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Speaker 1: didn't stay with his team. Oh well, we'll go get

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Speaker 1: him because he's a good player. Yeah. And look in

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Speaker 1: Jamaar Chase's case, I mean his last college game was

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Speaker 1: against Clemson. That was the first round cornerback he was

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Speaker 1: abusing in the in the game. I mean I just

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Speaker 1: remember being there. It was like he was right, we're yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're downtown. I'll take over, and he took over the game,

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Speaker 1: like Michael Parsons. To me, is such a different deal

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Speaker 1: than I don't know who you would be the last

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Speaker 1: person go okay, that's the linebacker is kind of like

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Speaker 1: him or something. But I think those are, you know, somewhat,

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Speaker 1: those are special case. You better have great film, obviously,

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Speaker 1: like a Will Anderson does. I remember, like probably ten

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Speaker 1: years ago, there was talk about how Clowney might have

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Speaker 1: been able to sit that year. You know, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: he didn't. He he played, and it didn't seem like

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Speaker 1: he had a real option not to. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that did anything for him, you know,

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Speaker 1: or whatnot. And so I just think so much of

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Speaker 1: it is a case by case basis on this um.

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Speaker 1: But the last thing you want, you would think you

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Speaker 1: want to do, is give somebody more pause. But I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: Christian McCaffrey, he set out the Bowl game injuries in

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Speaker 1: the NFL, and the anybody questions his ability, it's right,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, not this thing. So it's funny because early

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Speaker 1: in the conversation you talked about we were all there

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Speaker 1: the day to n I l thing dropped and at

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Speaker 1: the time versus seems like a lifetime ago, doesn't It's

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Speaker 1: not even a year. I know that the buzz was

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Speaker 1: all about Spencer Rentther. He was already told they're wheeling

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Speaker 1: and dealing and uh in Jason has this thing on

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Speaker 1: phone attached to his ear, trying to figure it out right,

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Speaker 1: not throwing at all, not throwing at all, not showing

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Speaker 1: off whatever. Um. And in that year, Spencer Rada has

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Speaker 1: gone from being viewed as the number one got in

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Speaker 1: last year's draft the two tho Draft two, losing his job,

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Speaker 1: transferring to South Carolina and kind of rebuilding his career.

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Speaker 1: We're still taking shots at Oklahoma for how everything went down.

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Speaker 1: When you think about Spencer rad and what is transport

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Speaker 1: over the last twelve months, where are you at with him? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So I would ask you this, use the word and

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Speaker 1: used word he was viewed as. So I would ask you, um,

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Speaker 1: you worked as an NFL scale Like was that media

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Speaker 1: draft analysts, you know, hype or was it because he's not?

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Speaker 1: I mean we've both seen him. He's not. You know,

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Speaker 1: like there's Kyler Murray, who's sup. We're athletic and different.

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Speaker 1: But he's like pretty average frame guy, not as quarterbacks,

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Speaker 1: So like, where is are there the wow traits to

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Speaker 1: be first pick of the draft guy? No? And see

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Speaker 1: that was the that was a bit of the issue

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Speaker 1: that I had with him. And this is sometimes I

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Speaker 1: always worry when I look at quarterbacks, so that sometimes

401
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Speaker 1: I'm too close to the flame because you see him

402
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Speaker 1: in high school and sometimes whatever impression they're making you

403
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Speaker 1: as high schooler, it's hard for you to get that

404
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Speaker 1: out the head, not only how they play, but maybe

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Speaker 1: their mannerisms or maybe they perceived football character that you

406
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Speaker 1: kind of get by being around them. Sometimes it's hard.

407
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Speaker 1: And so look, by all accounts, everyone knows the Spencer

408
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Speaker 1: rather is on the edge when it comes to cockiness

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Speaker 1: and athletic arrogance and all of those things, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: that can work against him. And so when I looked

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Speaker 1: at him, I always look at quarterbacks and I'm looking

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Speaker 1: for what is the superpower, Like, what is the one

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Speaker 1: thing that separates him from everybody else? It wasn't the athleticism.

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Speaker 1: The arm telling was good, like pretty good, very good

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Speaker 1: if we want to call it. I won't say it

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Speaker 1: was like exceptional Josh Allen type talent, and then you

417
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Speaker 1: think about the system and all those other things. And

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Speaker 1: when I looked at him compared to look Kyler and

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Speaker 1: Baker and those guys, I was like, Okay, he's fine,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know if he's in the stratosphere with

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Speaker 1: those guys dominated at Oklahoma. He needed to have a

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Speaker 1: dominant season where I could kind of warm up to, like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: he's in that class. And when he struggled and those

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Speaker 1: things like it made me pause and then you know, man,

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Speaker 1: I think the thing is real. Maybe I shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: watched QB one on him because it kind of gave

427
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: too much behind the scenes, and I think he has

428
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,120
Speaker 1: a hard time shaking that, and so anything that kind

429
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 1: of brings me back to that, I'm like to see.

430
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 1: There he is. That's the guy that I saw at

431
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: high school at Arizona. I just don't know which one

432
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 1: I'm getting if he gets to the pros. Yeah, we

433
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: we did a big story in him right right around

434
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 1: South Carolina spring game, and I talked to some of

435
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 1: your sum of your colleagues who have worked at the

436
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 1: Elite leven have known him back too, and one of

437
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: them brought up the QB one show and about how

438
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: it was almost like he thinks that's how he needs

439
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 1: to act, and um, you know, one of the people

440
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: I talked to, I talked to multiple people at the

441
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: Lead eleven, but one of them, you know, in very

442
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 1: descriptive terms, it was almost like way till you hear

443
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: my music and then you'll understand. You know, it was

444
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: like the too cool for school guy. And I think,

445
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, some of that you can attribute to being

446
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: young and immature. You can attribute it to being you know,

447
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 1: put in a position where it wasn't I don't know

448
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 1: if it was a show. I don't know it was

449
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: a documentary. I don't know quite what it was. But

450
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 1: I think sometimes and it's it's a different problem because

451
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 1: you didn't have this, let's say when um, you know,

452
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 1: when Matt Leiner was in high school orquin was in

453
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: high school where there wasn't cameras on them all the time,

454
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 1: or social media. And I think some of it it's

455
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 1: almost like I don't think a lot of some of

456
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: these some of these players are bad people, are bad

457
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 1: kids at all. But I think sometimes it's almost like

458
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: they're acting how they think a five stars should act.

459
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 1: Grew up in that kind of thing and that's where

460
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: it is, and so I think it's a challenge for

461
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: them to manage it right, especially when all of a

462
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 1: sudden there's a perception now on top of it. Now

463
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: it's like you're always kind of defined as a five star.

464
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: It's unfortunately I did that quarterback book and it was back.

465
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: I remember one of the quarterbacks was a Southern California

466
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: kid who was at one point was almost like in

467
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,479
Speaker 1: the middle of his junior was rated as the top player,

468
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: not just quarterback in his class. And that that kid

469
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: was dealing with so much, like he spent years work

470
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 1: with private quarterback coaches, and I felt bad for him,

471
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: and it was just kind of I think it's just

472
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: a lot for a lot of kids to wear and embrace,

473
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: and very few have the personality to kind of own

474
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: it and thrive in it, right, you know, I feel

475
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: like you see it a little bit. You know, sometimes

476
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 1: in like special basketball players who are like, man, that

477
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: guy is really comfortable on their own skin. But a

478
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: lot of times it's like, you know, either they get

479
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: you know, get hyped up. It's a you know, a

480
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: Tate Martel, He's a great seven on seven player, He's

481
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: got great players around him, and then you know, everybody's

482
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,959
Speaker 1: buzzing because it's like, Okay, he's gonna bring these players

483
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: to wherever he goes. So it's like you're a five

484
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: star ambassador and all that. And I just think it's

485
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: it's hard. Obviously these kids are really talented, because they

486
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to play at all. You know, they're

487
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 1: not just like the normal high school player. But you

488
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: put them in with super teams and seven on seven

489
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: and the expectations, and I mean, I just think of

490
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: some of the players, um, even last year. So quinn

491
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 1: Ewers comes out to that same elite eleven and I remember,

492
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: you know, I had heard about him and I but

493
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: he was on my team. He was on my team,

494
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: So here's a tough deal. And I'll get I wanted

495
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: to ask you on that in a second, but it

496
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: was like I remember somebody saying to me one of

497
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: the writers, like, he is the most highly ranked quarterback

498
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: in the history of like evaluations online because of however

499
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: two four sevens algorithm was or whatever it was. And

500
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: he plays at a really elite He played at a

501
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: really elite high school program, and he definitely seems like

502
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: he's got armed talent. But I know that there was

503
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: like some other questions where people are like, all right,

504
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: I'm not you know, like he's good? Is he great?

505
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. He didn't seem to be. He seemed

506
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: to struggle a little bit when we watched him at

507
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: the opening. But you know, he's working with different receivers.

508
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: You know, who knows what else he was, you know,

509
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: kind of going through at that point. It's a lot

510
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: for them to just kind of to to where you know,

511
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: I mean you had the fourth side of it like

512
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: two years earlier year in Texas and you got the

513
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 1: quarterbacks from southern California that nobody really knows. And then

514
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: he blows up at the opening and now you know

515
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: C J. Stroud is like, oh yeah, why would he

516
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: not have been, you know, an elite guy? But he

517
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: wasn't and he blew up and probably at the right time,

518
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: whereas the other guys almost like they employed food at

519
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: that time. And it's like it's an interesting like tail

520
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 1: up two paths. Um so a couple of things because

521
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: you touched on so much um with that one to

522
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: seven on seven world, because there's a lot made of that.

523
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: People either love it or hate it. I think there's uh,

524
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: there's a lot to be gleam from watching guys and

525
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: seven on seven. I think you see now the young

526
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: guys that are coming into the league, the cornerbacks, the

527
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: wide receivers, the throwers. Uh. The reason a lot of

528
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: those guys like Jamar Chase and others are able to

529
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: have success because they run a million routes uh from

530
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: the time they were adolescents, and so the game is

531
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: still the same when they get to the upper levels.

532
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: Quarterbacks have more reps than they've ever had. Uh. You

533
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: think about the number of repetitions in terms of throwing

534
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: the ball and seeing coverage and doing all those things,

535
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: provided that is done right. Like, yeah, it's beneficial. That's it.

536
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 1: Seven or seven is different, and I think what happens

537
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: is and I love I am a star chaser. I

538
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: love looking at the rankings. I love the five star,

539
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: four star stuff because I do believe there's a correlation

540
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: between when these guys put five stars on them, there's

541
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: a level of talent and ability and potential that typically

542
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: translates to these guys are going to have a chance

543
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: to be the guys that we talked about. I think

544
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: It's been proven time and time again they don't necessarily

545
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: miss on those guys. But now when I get to

546
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: quinn yours, the thing that troubled me a little bit

547
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: is I heard so much about him before I was

548
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: around him. That in my mind, because you know, eld

549
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: eleven man, the guys that have come through there, like

550
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: when you see Trevor, you see justin Fields, you see

551
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: Twa and some of the other quarterbacks come through there,

552
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: it was a wild factor immediately, and with Quinn, I

553
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: didn't get that in terms of watching him, being like, wow,

554
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: I've never seen that. It was like, hey, I've heard

555
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: a lot, like when am I going to see that stuff?

556
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: And so I'm still kind of wait and see mode

557
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: because to me, he was underwhelming in terms of the

558
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: performance um that we're around, but I haven't had a

559
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 1: chance to see him play real college football. So I'm

560
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: really waiting to see, Hey, am I putting too much

561
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: in what I'm basing off of seven h seven? Let's

562
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: see him play with pads on and all the ouse stuff.

563
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: Because remember, shortly after that he left his school, he

564
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: went to Ohio State. We never saw him again, so

565
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: I didn't get a chance to have the follow up

566
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 1: of oh, here he is when you were playing on

567
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: the ESPN game that everyone sees, Okay, he's different when

568
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: you put his team his playbook in debt. It's been

569
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: a great mystery. So I'm really kind of fascinating to

570
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 1: see if he lives up to the hype, because look,

571
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: the hype machine has been building at Texas about what

572
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: he's going to do and how he's gonna bring Texas back.

573
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: I'm just still kind of wait and see. Mo. Yeah,

574
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting. So like you had a

575
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: couple and I'm probably gonna leave off a few others

576
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: because there was a bunch of Texas kids there, right,

577
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: so it's Queen Yours. It was Kate club Nick. It

578
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: was the big baseball player from a and m Wagman,

579
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: and I know there was a kid from Flower Mound

580
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: who was committed to Florida. You know, like I feel

581
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: like there was made a couple of others. It was like,

582
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: you know, there's definitely some talented kids. And I remember

583
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: watching club Nick and You're like, oh, I could everything

584
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: seemed like it was pretty easy for him. And I

585
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: mean just in a little life of him, and I'm like, yeah,

586
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: I could see why he'll probably be a really good

587
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: college quarterback. I have no idea beyond that, you know,

588
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: but like just in terms of like it's interesting to

589
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: watch temperament. Just being around the lead of him for

590
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: a long time, you kind of can get a feel

591
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: for people. It doesn't mean that it's you know, gonna

592
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: work out a certain way, because you can kind of

593
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: get enamored with somebody's you know, certain persona or how

594
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: they are. And sometimes guys are just really polished people,

595
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: you know, like Trent's quarterback. You know, Trent wasn't there

596
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: last year and I'm blanking uh Richardson, you know, like

597
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: talking to him was like talking to a thirty year old.

598
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: I remember talking coming off the field. I had written

599
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: about him, and I was like, all right, well, parents

600
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: did a really good job. You know, I don't know

601
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: how physically, how how good he actually is. He's obviously

602
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: a good quarterback, but just like you're you're interested to

603
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: see how they relate. Because all these guys are coming in,

604
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: like it was so much hype and it's so much

605
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,479
Speaker 1: more than it was ten years ago, and it's just

606
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: like I always thought it was fascinating back in the

607
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: old Elite eleven days when it was in Orange County,

608
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: and this made it this something is before print Trint

609
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: group think Bob and they would have their counselors and

610
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: some other guys come back. I just remember like listening

611
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: to like Tyrod Taylor when he was a Virginia Tech

612
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,959
Speaker 1: and Tyrod Taylor even when he was like, first of all,

613
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: he always looked older than he was, and he always

614
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, it was a thirty nine year

615
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: old man in like a twenty one year old body.

616
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: And you'd hear them kind of share their story, and

617
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: I feel like their stories were a lot different than

618
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: because they were not the they were not so steeped

619
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: in the star system and everything else. I'm not saying

620
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: it was better or worse, but I just thought it

621
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: was a really interesting perspective to hear how these guys

622
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: had these paths there that were just like because I

623
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: think there was like at that point, not everybody knew

624
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: everybody now because of social media, because of Twitter, because

625
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: of you know everything else, like you know so much

626
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: about like who's across the country. You know, back then

627
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: it was like who is this guy again? And you know,

628
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: just kind of like they would just show up and

629
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: then you kind of you kind of feel them or

630
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,239
Speaker 1: maybe it wouldn't And and so I think some of

631
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: that factors into like, what honestly some of these quarterbacks

632
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: are wearing, and can they like what they're wearing? Emotionally,

633
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: I guess I should say, yeah, no, it's it's it's

634
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: it's fascinating, And you know, it kind of leads us

635
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: to the other stuff because and thinking about this next

636
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: quarterback class is funny because two quarterback class was really

637
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: dismissed and deppend and look at it turned out to

638
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: be that a lot of the hype leading up to

639
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: the draft was kind of overinflated on our end in

640
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: the media about it because we have one guy going

641
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: to first round and everyone goes after the third round.

642
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: This next class has now been held as a banner class,

643
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: and the guys at the top are guys that everyone

644
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: is really familiar with because they not only have been

645
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: on the major stage Leada Levin Beyond for a while,

646
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: but they both play a major programs. And so you've

647
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: got Bryce Young and then c J. Stroud. And what's

648
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: fascinating to me is Bryce Young wins the Heisman Trophy.

649
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: But I feel like everyone talks about c J. Stroud.

650
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: So when you just kind of casually talk to people

651
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: about those two guys, like, what has been some of

652
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: the feedback that's you've got? Yeah, I think c J.

653
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: Stroud is very natural. Like I just helped the colleague

654
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: out with like a scouting reporter in Ohio State. Everybody,

655
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, you lose two great receivers a go in

656
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: the first round, and a lot of people I talked

657
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: to you think the best one is still there and

658
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: that's Jackson's Big. But you have a loaded backfield and

659
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: the offensive line is not great. But maybe the new

660
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: orline coach, Justin Fry, will kind of improve that. But

661
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: everything you saw the way he finished the year, we

662
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: did a game they played against Maryland and Maryland had

663
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: no cornerbacks in that game and they just lit them up.

664
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: But I think CJ's trajectory is really ideal. Right, He's

665
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: a southern California kid who, for whatever reason was kind

666
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: of a little obscured, Like, like I said, what did

667
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: he have? Fresno State the only offer? Maybe it was

668
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: something like that when he went to the opening and

669
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: it was it was like because he was on my team,

670
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: it was super light, like no one knew. I don't

671
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: even know if he was expected to be the starter.

672
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: I can't remember who else we had on the team.

673
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: But it wasn't like, oh we gots he just stray.

674
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: He's yeah. It wasn't until something clicked about mid way

675
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: through that event that you're looking at him, You're like, hey,

676
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: this guy is really good because he had a bunch

677
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: of Ohio state wide receivers Fleming and somebody else that

678
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: he was throwing to, and he just had a natural

679
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: connection and yeah, So I don't know why he was

680
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: lightly regarded on a major scale when it comes to

681
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: what he was able to do as an elite leven

682
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: prosper Yeah, and then just from a physical side, like

683
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: I saw him last UM summer. He came down to

684
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: throw with Jordan Palmer in UM in Orange County and

685
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: and Desmond Ritter was there, and I was there, Kyle

686
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: Allen was there, but like I hadn't seen him probably um,

687
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: maybe I didn't seen him in in a year or two.

688
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: And he's not like like you knew he was bigger.

689
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: I didn't realize. He told me to put on like

690
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: twenty eight pounds since he was at Ohio State. He

691
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: went from like one nine two to like almost two

692
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: twenty or something like that didn't look like you know,

693
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: Like I go back again to my only eleven last year,

694
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: the first thing I noticed is that guy looks like

695
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: a linebacker where that was Malik. You know, Malik Willis

696
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: was a SEC linebacker. Like even still c doesn't look

697
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: like you know, he's carrying a different kind of two twenties.

698
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: It's not a bad weight. It's just like you look

699
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 1: and say, Okay, this guy's trajecting. He's gonna keep growing

700
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: into his He is in a really good system for

701
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: what he's doing. And I think I would have been

702
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: looking at him. I'm like, yeah, I could see him

703
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 1: as a perspect of the draft. I like, what box

704
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: will he not check? I don't know. He's a great kid, Uh,

705
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: high intelligence, um leadership ability. Just in the little time

706
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: I was around him, like it was great. Then you

707
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: talk to the higher state people, that's all exemplary. Uh

708
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: he steps in and I think just how cool he

709
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: is in that environment because no one will say this,

710
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: but I don't care what anyone says, Like Justin Fields

711
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: is still big shoes. He had to step into um

712
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: and I know Justin got beat up during the pre

713
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: draft process, but its final two seasons at all your state. Yeah,

714
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: like he was, he was a really good player. So

715
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: c J steps in and this offense doesn't skip a

716
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 1: beat like their machine going up and down the field.

717
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: The playmakers that he's using, the way that he pushes

718
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: the ball down the field, all that stuff is terrific.

719
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: And when you look at the size, the talent destruction,

720
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: he is, as we say, like he's a prototype. He's

721
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: a actly what we've been looking for the position for

722
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: the last thirty years in terms of size. This athletic enough,

723
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: but he's a pocket path so he's an old school

724
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: classic player. I think the one struggle with a little

725
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: bit is Bryce Young, not because Brice Young isn't a

726
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: great player, but because part of the NFL draft is

727
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: the beauty pageant. And when I look at Bryce and

728
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: it was Bruce is just one of those things that

729
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: stood out to me. I'm watching him play Georgia and

730
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: I'm watching it on TV and there's a TV time

731
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: out and it's Bryce Young standing there and it's the

732
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: Georgia D line And somehow, I don't know why the

733
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: camera was behind you know, the huddle or whatever. But

734
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: you can see that and it was like, Wow, either

735
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: Georgia has giants or Bryce Young is a lot smaller

736
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: than you think. And I'm saying this even though I've

737
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: been around the ladder, right, because Georgia has what have

738
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: NFL dudes? Right, That's what it is. I mean, the

739
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: thing that would would give me pause a little bit

740
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 1: on and I'm saying for first pick of the draft.

741
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: I'm not saying for top fifteen pick with Bryce is

742
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: the comparison I've heard a lot is like Russell Wilson.

743
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 1: The only thing that gives me a little like Russell Wilson.

744
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: As you've seen, lower body is like an NFL running back.

745
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: What is he like five ten to twenty and he's

746
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: always been he's always been kind of thicker lower body. Yeah,

747
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: it's almost like the Mahomes Like it's like that Mahomes

748
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 1: like middle landfielder like athleticism with like a fullbacks body

749
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: or something like or Torso. And I don't know, is

750
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: Bryce Young gonna get to be five ten and a

751
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: half two oh five when he plays where you you know,

752
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: like he's not Kyler. I mean Kyler is a different

753
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: kind of athlete. I feel like he plays differently than Kyler,

754
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: but the comparison just his undersized quarterback and how you know,

755
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: is it a durability concern? You know at that point,

756
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that, because what you said,

757
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: I think is is true. Like every you love that

758
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 1: how he handles pressure, and you love that he's accurate,

759
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: and I think he's intangibles wise, he's great, you know everything.

760
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: Just the durability thing is like, that's the one thing

761
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: that would give me a little pause. Yeah, that that

762
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: is the one thing, because look, he can deal and

763
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,919
Speaker 1: I think he showed a few different times last year

764
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: that he's legit. I think the way he orchestrated the

765
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: driver versus over at the end of the year to

766
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: me was like big time. It was clutch. It was

767
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 1: a tough environment, he figured it out. They were struggling

768
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: all game, but then when look all the chips were

769
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: pushed into the middle of the table, he found a

770
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: way to get it done. Um, even in the championship game,

771
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,479
Speaker 1: Like we can say this, like that this team looked

772
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: different when they had Jamison Williams. Jamison will just plays

773
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: that game may turn out to be a different kind

774
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: of outcome, and so he has all of that stuff.

775
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: I think some of the wait and see and it's

776
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: not his fault, but as scouts sometimes we can get

777
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: into scouting the helmet. And so the last two guys

778
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: that have come out of Alabama to a talking about

779
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: La and mac Jones, and so mac Jones there's more

780
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: of a positive feel to mac Jones because of how

781
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: it kind of ended in New England and those things,

782
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: and then with two of for whatever reason, it feels

783
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,959
Speaker 1: to be this this negativity, right, and so I feel

784
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: like some of that will be baked into the Bryce

785
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: Young evaluation, which one is he is he a product

786
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: of this supersystem that they have with all these players

787
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: and this stuff or whatever, and so he, which is

788
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: very difficult, kind of has to prove that he's a

789
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 1: standalone star without the support of everything that is Alabama.

790
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: And if he does that, then I think it might

791
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: be easier to kind of digest some of the size concerns.

792
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: He's a first rounder, for sure, but I think it's

793
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: trying to figure out when you have Bryce Young versus

794
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: some of the other guys that could be in this

795
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: class that might have more of the prototypical size and dimensions.

796
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: That conversation in meeting rooms is going to be a

797
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 1: tough one because people talk about the Miami kid and

798
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: some of the other guys that are coming through. Yeah,

799
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,439
Speaker 1: and then again it's to me, it just comes down

800
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: to how concerned are you were then being able to

801
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: hold up, you know, at that size. I mean again,

802
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: you know Kyler wasn't you know? You you even hear it.

803
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: I just remember, like even with quarterbacks who are like

804
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: even when goth was coming out, remember fifteen pounds, yea

805
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: a narrow frame. He's a different kind of quarterback. And

806
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: I'm not saying Rice is talented, but it's just that

807
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: comes up, you know. And and as you said, it's

808
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: the physical position. We've seen injuries. And it's not to

809
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: say c J is Josh Allen either or is you know,

810
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: it's Ben Roethlisberger. But you know, you feel better about

811
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: a guy who's probably gonna be by the time he

812
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: goes through the draft process. Teacher is probably gonna be

813
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: like almost two pounds or as opposed to one nineties

814
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: six or whatever. He's gonna be. Um. So one of

815
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: the things that we always love is when you eventually

816
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: released your freaktance and I know you still it's a

817
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: work in progress, But is there any any names that

818
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: uh old scout needs to kind of pay attention to,

819
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: because here's what it stood out And here's one of

820
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: the things that was annoying to me about the draft process.

821
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: And I get it because I guess I'm on I'm

822
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: on the media side, so I have to do it.

823
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: The conversation with Aidan Hutchinson drove me crazy because I

824
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: was like, are people not paying attention to the athleticism

825
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: that this guy has and the documented numbers that he

826
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: put up at Michigan and watching him at the Combin,

827
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: and yet I still felt like he was pigged as

828
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 1: the try hard defensive end, raw raw, high motor guy.

829
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: And I was like, man, we're doing such a disservice

830
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: to what he brings or whatever. Is it anybody that

831
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: I need to start paying attention to early. I'm gonna

832
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: hold off for this for a little bit. But the

833
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: one thing I would say with Aidan Hudgins and the

834
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: thing I feel like got him more than anything, is

835
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: people talk about like like twenty six inch arms, you know,

836
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: it was like I feel like it was arm length,

837
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 1: because I remember talking to one but the line coach

838
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: in the NFL who was not a huge fan of is.

839
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: He was like, he's a good player, I just don't

840
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: know if I would if he's first pick of the

841
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: draft kind of athleticism. And we started to go back

842
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: and I'm like reading off the boss's measurables compared to

843
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: you know, what their what their ten yards split was,

844
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: and it was like, you know, those other guys were

845
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: not like who was the super explosive edge guy from

846
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: Mississippi State who came out like four years ago Montes Sweat,

847
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: Like it's not like a lot of those guys are

848
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: doing four for three right there, not oh way or whatever,

849
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: Like they're running seven one or whatever. And you know,

850
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: like I love the numbers as much, if not more

851
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: than anybody. But sometimes it's like, okay, you know, is

852
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: he disruptive or not? You know, yeah, it was it

853
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: was hard, Like it was hard. Two guys they were hard, right,

854
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: And I feel like the process can't be hard. I

855
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: feel like, and it's our fraud because we kind of

856
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: make the draft a bit of a soap proper film,

857
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: So we looked for story lines that we can talk

858
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: about to kind of drawing interest. I feel like Aidan

859
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: Hutchinson fail prey to the storyline on being the try

860
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: hard guy, and then I feel like some of the

861
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: stuff around Cavon Thibodaux was a little overblown that I

862
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: think we forgot some of what he was able to

863
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: do on the field and we became more focused on

864
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: the brand and the narrative of Cavon Tipodau. The brand. Yeah,

865
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: I had done a big story on Thibodeau and all

866
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: the really cool things he is doing and plans to

867
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: do off the field, um, back in September. I guess

868
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 1: it was very thoughtful, big picture and big picture guy. Um.

869
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: And you know, he feels a little bit like the

870
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: guy who was because he was you know, he's been

871
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: a commodity for you know for five years, you know,

872
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: And so I think some of it is the combination

873
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: of okay was you know. I think sometimes you know,

874
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: his comments I didn't hear them live but during the

875
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: National Title because he did like a live stream with

876
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: Fox Sports. It was a lot. Yeah, Like I think

877
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: he's given people fodder because he is very well spoken.

878
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: He is a good talker. He's a good talker in

879
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: a way that a lot of times, you know, most

880
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: like you know, he's advanced in that. You can have

881
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: a lot of really good players who just are not

882
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: as comfortable in front of a microphone and just kind

883
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: of be off the cuff. And I think, so you

884
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: have that, and I think that that it almost always

885
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 1: rubs people the wrong. One study I would say it

886
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: has come out of I'm out of college. Who I

887
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't say is like and I use it from well spoken,

888
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: like when I covered Baker a lot when I was,

889
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: you know, doing Oklahoma, a bunch of features on him,

890
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: Baker got in some trouble. Baker would you know, like

891
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: would would be polarizing. And I'm not saying Baker is

892
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers as a player or anything like that, but

893
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I saw how Baker handled it like

894
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: you would be in there, like all right, we're gonna

895
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: ask Baker some questions that's probably not the school is

896
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,720
Speaker 1: not gonna like and Baker would handle it great. Um.

897
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: I feel like there's not that many guys who we say, Okay,

898
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: this guy is very comfortable being the voice bigger than

899
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: a program or whatever. It's like their own Like it

900
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: was one of those guys. I can't think of that

901
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: many players who are really good players who also fit

902
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: in that category. Like clearly you can see Michael Parsons

903
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: kind of has that, but he wasn't that way. It pends.

904
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: It was different and it's a different level of polishy.

905
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: I think the thing with Cabon though, and it's kind

906
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: of one of those things like I think you saw

907
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: um in the scouting world. So the former Bear scout

908
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: that was fired shortly after the draft because he talked

909
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: about pool hungry and driven, he talked about the PhD acronym,

910
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: and it kind of it was a backlash in terms

911
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: of the way that it was portrayed or kind of

912
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: put out on the player. Uh. Sometimes in the room

913
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: we do get caught up in like we want these

914
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: guys is where football is everything, and so anything that

915
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: may be perceived to take away from that is viewed

916
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 1: as a negative. I think because Cavon Thibodeau was so

917
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: I would say thoughtful and articulate, and I would say

918
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: such a deep thinker. I think for some they're like,

919
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: what does he really care about it? Is he really

920
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: gonna care about the game, Is he's gonna love it

921
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: or whatever? But as as I looked at it as

922
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: a parent, I'm like, well, yeah, that's kind of how

923
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: you want your kid to be beyond just sports or whatever,

924
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 1: and so um it kind of had his own legs

925
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: and those things. But I felt like he was a

926
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: guy that looked he had been held as the number

927
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: one overall recruit, he had been celebrated as a dominant

928
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: pass rusher and those things. And yeah, there was some

929
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: stuff on tape that you didn't like in terms of

930
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: the effort, but man, the stuff that was his superpower

931
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: when he is a good stuff. Yeah, yeah, when he

932
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: flashed it, like that stuff is scary and dangerous and

933
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: those things. Anybody else, because Trayvon Walker was a guy

934
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: that was surprize number one, anybody else that was drafted

935
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: that was a surprise was someone that you were like, hey,

936
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: let me weigh in on this person going wherever. Just

937
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 1: you know. I remember talking to somebody about Nakobe Dean

938
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: and he said, and this was a scout, and he

939
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 1: was like, I'm kind of worried for him that he's

940
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: on the list to be there, meaning like I could

941
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: see him falling. I just remember thinking, like when NFL

942
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: Network showed film a highlight film of him I actually

943
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 1: want is gonna text your buddy Django. Is there anybody

944
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 1: here who has a more impressive like like thirty seconds

945
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: than what they showed him to Kobe Dean? I mean,

946
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: there are really fast guys in Michigan who Nakobe Dean

947
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: embarrassed in that game, right, And I know all the

948
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: coaches I've talked to, it's like, you know, he's got

949
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,919
Speaker 1: a three five and mechanical engineering. And I remember talking

950
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: to him at the combine about what that takes, like like,

951
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: I get it. The box he's not checking is you

952
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: want his arms to be longer and you wanted to

953
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: be taller. And I'm sure medically there must have been something.

954
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: And I knew out of Pro Day that there was

955
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: a hesitation on where he is and that it's a

956
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: physical position. Also, no one of the guys I know

957
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: on the Eagle staff was elated. It was like, I

958
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,479
Speaker 1: don't know why he's still why he felt to um,

959
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: but we're glad it worked that that way. Like I'd

960
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 1: be shocked if he's not a really good NFL player

961
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: unless injuries get to him, you know, like just you know, again,

962
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: I get why length matters maybe I don't understand it

963
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: the way to the degree that people actually work in

964
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,879
Speaker 1: football and coach it at that level can explain it.

965
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: But I was like, man, this guy was such a

966
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: good player and he you know, he's so smart and

967
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: he plays fast. Like you're telling me he can't be

968
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 1: you know, he's not gonna hit the ground running there

969
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: and be a be an impact guy for them. Maybe

970
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, Yeah he was. He was like, it's so funny, man,

971
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 1: because he was a heart win after I met him.

972
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: Before I met him, was all over. I love the

973
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: way he played. Look at the tape. You see him. Man,

974
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: his stinks, his reactions, his ability to diagnose. Man, he

975
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: plays at another speed. Um. We've had conversations on the

976
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: podcast here about Luke Keikley and Luke Keikley's ability to

977
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: just detail what he sees, what he anticipates, how he

978
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: plays fast, all that other stuff. Nakobe Dean strikes me

979
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: as a collegiate version of that kind of savant in

980
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: terms of being able to kind of see it diagnosed

981
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: and say, oh, I see it on tape, I'm going

982
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: and he plays that fast. The one thing that struck

983
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: me is when I did an interview with him at

984
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: the combine and he stood beside me. He was so

985
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: much smaller than I anticipated. Like I would hear people

986
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: talk about the Jonathan Vilma thing, but I felt like

987
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: Jonathan Ville my head, maybe mores just a little just

988
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: a little thicker than the Kobe dean and look to

989
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 1: be not. I mean, it's not his fault. Maybe he

990
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: was coming on. I'm imagining now like m j D

991
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,919
Speaker 1: walked up next year for this was that was that's

992
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: short too? Yeah, So so it wasn't. It wasn't. It

993
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: wasn't even that. It was just and he might have

994
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: been in rehab mode, so he wasn't thick where you've

995
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: been kind of like busting out the way. So maybe

996
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: the shoulder and and that's stuffing. So I just was like, man, okay,

997
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: in the league. In your mind, you're trying to think, okay, well,

998
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: who is like him that's having success, And so you

999
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: go through the names and they're like, well, Lavante David

1000
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: from Nebraska was like kind of smaller and lighter and

1001
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: kind of did it his speed. I think his times

1002
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: were a little different than what na Kobe would have posted.

1003
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 1: But and then the other thing was like Okay, he's

1004
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 1: not gonna be for everybody, but for a team that

1005
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: has big bodies up front that are gonna let him

1006
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: kind of play clean where he runs and Chase I

1007
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: think the Kobe Dean might not like the draft position,

1008
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: but I think he landed in the right spot, meaning

1009
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: the way that they will utilize him well, not kind

1010
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: of expose some of the stuff that people may have

1011
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: questions on. I think he's in the right spot to

1012
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: play the game the way that he's always played at Georgia,

1013
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: and I think he can have a high level of success. Yeah.

1014
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: I just thought he was a fun player to watch,

1015
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm always interested to see how like,

1016
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, somebody you think is great in college and

1017
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: then for whatever reason, you know, especially it's not injury related,

1018
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: it just doesn't click. And I got that wrong. I

1019
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: mean I will definitely feel like, you know, like there

1020
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 1: was you guys did a podcast last summer with Luke Kickley,

1021
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: right it was I remember listening to outside and there

1022
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 1: was a part in it where his rookie year he

1023
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: talked he does a lot of talking about Thomas Davis.

1024
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: Now you know, great like what a great teammate and

1025
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: uh leader and mentor he was, but there was a

1026
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: part whereas something he says where I don't know if

1027
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: he's just not physical enough, and it's like, oh, I

1028
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 1: can't get away with this here in the NFL, And

1029
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: I don't know if he ever really like I always wondered, like, okay,

1030
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: what exactly was it that enabled him to just get

1031
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,439
Speaker 1: right by the shortcoming or the thing he clearly knew

1032
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: he'd like this is I don't have this, you know,

1033
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 1: or whatever where it's just like, I don't know if

1034
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: it's the the ability to be so violent that some

1035
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: guys have it that clearly it sounds like Thomas Davis did. Um.

1036
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: I think I think some of them when it when

1037
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 1: it came to Keickley, qickly talked about being like at

1038
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 1: Boston College, he would just run around blocks, he would

1039
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: just go see it and do it, and those things.

1040
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 1: He talked about how he would watch Thomas just blow

1041
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: up and destroy folks. But Bruce, my experience, I believe

1042
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: sometimes man the room can have an impact, like the

1043
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: peer pressure. It's a little contagious where you're sitting in

1044
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: the room with Thomas Davis and you guys are watching

1045
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: tape together and You never want Thomas Davids to feel

1046
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: like the guy beside him. It's not tough like him,

1047
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: and so sometimes you naturally ramp it up because you're

1048
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: in an environment with that's the expectation. I think for Qiklely,

1049
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: he just learned how to kind of get through it

1050
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: and go through it. And it's that fine line between hey,

1051
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna prove people that my weakness is not a weakness,

1052
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: or I would be so good with my strengths that

1053
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: you never even pay attention to what my shortcoming. Maybe

1054
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:01,919
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make so many plays that you can be like, yeah,

1055
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: you may not be the most physical, but he makes

1056
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: every play on the field. H I mean, I love

1057
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: that here in the nuance of when there is something

1058
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 1: that like, maybe it is a shortcoming, maybe it's something

1059
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,280
Speaker 1: that like, you know, again, he was an awesome player

1060
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: at BC, and I just even think back to the

1061
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: recruiting stories about him, where one of the guys I

1062
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: know on the Duke's staff was like, well, when I

1063
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: think when people saw him walking around with glasses on,

1064
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 1: they thought he was a nerdy kid. Hey, we're gonna

1065
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: take the other number three. He went to Notre dame

1066
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: as opposed. It's funny. I want to tell you this um,

1067
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: the piece that you did in the Athletic on Film

1068
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: evaluation where you had all the college coaches kind of

1069
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: breakdown like what they look for whatever. Uh if god,

1070
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: if our listeners haven't checked it out, they need to

1071
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: check it out, because it was fascinating for me, like

1072
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: I learned, and it's it's always great when you have

1073
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: people kind of share a little tips in secrets. So

1074
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: that was a fascinating read. I'm intection and tell you

1075
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: like hey, And that was great because I learned a

1076
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: lot like hearing those guys just kind of discussed what

1077
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: they look for in each position when they're doing the

1078
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 1: recruiting things. I think there's obviously some carryover fro when

1079
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: you're looking at NFL talent and prospects and what translates

1080
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: and what works at the next level. Yeah. One of

1081
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: the ones I remember now that was like dealing McCullough,

1082
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: who's like so impressive to be around when he was

1083
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: at USC and I was like, Okay, what do you

1084
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: got And he was like he starts talking about Yeah,

1085
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: if this kid just like at halftime is like seven

1086
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: carries for thirteen yards he's gonna shut it down, or

1087
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 1: is like, you know, he's looking for body language and

1088
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: so into the nuance of stuff where I was like,

1089
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 1: all right, this is why these guys are professional, you know,

1090
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: because you can, um, you know, they always used the

1091
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: term kind of reverse engineering because they know what it's

1092
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 1: you know, what it's supposed to look like. But then

1093
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: what are all those things that like they can see

1094
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: in great people that maybe when it's not going great,

1095
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 1: that these are the things that matter. You know. Um,

1096
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: it's just really fascinating to kind of be in the

1097
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: weeds on that, you know. That's what I love that stuff?

1098
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 1: Well I do too, And what I love more is

1099
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: you're coming on and having great conversations on the pot.

1100
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're able to give us an hour to

1101
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: just chat all things football, particularly college football. We look

1102
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: forward to have me back on the podcast again in

1103
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: your future. Thanks for us, Thanks Black, you always pleasure