1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,880
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

2
00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,560
Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

3
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,760
Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

4
00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,640
Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

5
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,160
Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

6
00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,040
Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

7
00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,319
Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, But you

8
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:25,919
Speaker 1: can make your own decisions, all right, Welcome to it

9
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,160
Speaker 1: could happen here, a podcast that is about fifty percent

10
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 1: of the time introduced well and about fifty percent of

11
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,440
Speaker 1: the time us talking about how we're bad at introductions,

12
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,000
Speaker 1: and today it is it is just be Christopher, but

13
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:43,440
Speaker 1: with me is Hadley and Mike from Lobelia Commons, who

14
00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,840
Speaker 1: are here to talk about many things, one of which

15
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:52,240
Speaker 1: is there is the first edition of their Earthbound Farmers Almanac. Hey, Hey,

16
00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,320
Speaker 1: how how are you two doing today? I heard I

17
00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,640
Speaker 1: heard there's maybe a thunderstorm rolling in. Yeah, we're doing

18
00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 1: pretty good. Um, it's gonna be glad of the rain,

19
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:06,000
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, yeah, it'll be good. We're gonna talk

20
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,760
Speaker 1: a little bit first about Labilia Commons. So how did

21
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:10,520
Speaker 1: that project start? I know, I know was something from

22
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 1: the beginning of the pandemic, But had you all been

23
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 1: working on this kind of stuff before and yeah, I

24
00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,039
Speaker 1: just want roasty a little bit of that. Yeah. So

25
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:24,880
Speaker 1: it kind of started, um last year during the pandemic basically, UM.

26
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,679
Speaker 1: Basically at the beginning of the pandemic, we had UM

27
00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,640
Speaker 1: that's like a surge of interest in these like kind

28
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,959
Speaker 1: of mutual a groups UM. And the largest of which

29
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,000
Speaker 1: that formed in New Orleans specifically, which some of us

30
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,640
Speaker 1: helped form, was called New Orleans Mutual a group which

31
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,800
Speaker 1: was doing like food distribution. It kind of stemmed out

32
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,600
Speaker 1: of a project that was already um running like a

33
00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,640
Speaker 1: food share basically getting excess produce that was coming into

34
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,840
Speaker 1: the port and distributing it for free in front of

35
00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 1: like one of the gentrifying grocery stores. UM. But within

36
00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,640
Speaker 1: like I want to say, like a couple of weeks, UM,

37
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,680
Speaker 1: there was such a surge of interest in doing that

38
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 1: type of like volunteer or whatever UM, where that there

39
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,919
Speaker 1: was like a ton of labor to make it happen

40
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 1: and that basically meant buying tons of produce eventually, because

41
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 1: the ports eventually shut down and there wasn't any produce

42
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,320
Speaker 1: coming from anywhere at the beginning of the the pandemic, and

43
00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,680
Speaker 1: that basically buying tons of produce from like costco and

44
00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,240
Speaker 1: that labor meant like waiting in lines for you know,

45
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,799
Speaker 1: wrapping around entire like massive like multi city block warehouse stores. Um.

46
00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 1: And so that was basically doing like food distribution. So

47
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,720
Speaker 1: we took the opportunity to since there was so much

48
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,680
Speaker 1: labor happening, that we could go and start to adjust

49
00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,079
Speaker 1: the question of like food production specifically and and try

50
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,920
Speaker 1: and do that in interesting ways. UM. So we felt

51
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,080
Speaker 1: like it was pretty important to start like experimenting and

52
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,640
Speaker 1: different forms of food production and like like ways of

53
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,240
Speaker 1: relating to food production. UM. So I mean this this

54
00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,360
Speaker 1: first started with like a UM, we're basically just starting

55
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,959
Speaker 1: tons of seeds and delivering them all over the city, um,

56
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,520
Speaker 1: just driving around from We had like one centralized nursery

57
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,560
Speaker 1: that was run out of the warehouse um, and that

58
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,399
Speaker 1: was a ton of labor. Was a really time consuming,

59
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,960
Speaker 1: it was super centralized, and so we moved from that

60
00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 1: into a number of other projects. UM. Short Shortly thereafter,

61
00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,600
Speaker 1: we put together like a like a collaborative mushroom production

62
00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 1: group where we were um, getting people who had been

63
00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 1: growing mushrooms and teaching folks and like doing skill shares

64
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,240
Speaker 1: to produce oyster mushrooms out of buckets. We started doing

65
00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 1: some like woodlock production of chautaukias, which has like since

66
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,720
Speaker 1: expanded pretty dramatically. Um and yeah, just like kind of

67
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,600
Speaker 1: like things that that draw people's interests like that, and

68
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,920
Speaker 1: and and think about like how you can grow food

69
00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 1: in an urban or parry urban scenario fairly interestingly and

70
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:21,560
Speaker 1: like with joy um also um. You know, after this,

71
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,560
Speaker 1: we we were reached out to by folks that were like, well,

72
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:31,080
Speaker 1: I want to grow herbs, and rather than specifically getting

73
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,800
Speaker 1: like a lot and covering it in different herbal medicines,

74
00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:41,240
Speaker 1: we reached out had already had folks reaching out to us.

75
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,400
Speaker 1: And so if someone came up with the idea of well,

76
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 1: let's just all grow in like our backyard stuns of

77
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,840
Speaker 1: herbs and let's find herbs that already grow abundantly around

78
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,320
Speaker 1: us to kind of collectively share the experience of harvesting

79
00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:01,480
Speaker 1: and um and turning those into medicine. Um. And so

80
00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,480
Speaker 1: now there's like this herb Commons group that the labor

81
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:09,159
Speaker 1: is distributed, it's distributed geographically. Um, but there's these like

82
00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,039
Speaker 1: meet ups where they're bulk curbs are given up, Yeah,

83
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 1: given out, just like in a canal space and um. Yeah,

84
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,800
Speaker 1: like there's skill shares happening there and and so there's

85
00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,880
Speaker 1: kind of some community being built around that. Um that

86
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,400
Speaker 1: that happens in a very decentralized manner. Yeah, it's definitely

87
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 1: very decentralized. There are working groups that are part of

88
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,560
Speaker 1: Lobelia Commons that I'm like not entirely sure what they're

89
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,320
Speaker 1: doing in any given day or you know, what's going on.

90
00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm involved in like a couple particular projects within it UM.

91
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,520
Speaker 1: And I think that it's really flexible for folks who

92
00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,520
Speaker 1: are trying to get involved. They can kind of be

93
00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,560
Speaker 1: involved at whatever level they want. Like, um, if somebody

94
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,840
Speaker 1: doesn't want to go to a bunch of garden work

95
00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 1: days or a bunch of meetings or something, which you

96
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,640
Speaker 1: know are have been a great way for us to

97
00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 1: like see each other and see our friends during the

98
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 1: pandemic and stuff, is to get together for these work

99
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,240
Speaker 1: days outdoors or whatnot. But if somebody wants to just

100
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,719
Speaker 1: like do nothing but sprout plants at their own house

101
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,080
Speaker 1: and then somebody will come pick up those seedlings and

102
00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,200
Speaker 1: and you know bring them to one of our decentralized

103
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,440
Speaker 1: nursery spots. That's great. Um. That's one of the other

104
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,880
Speaker 1: kind of projects we have we call the decentralized nursery.

105
00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,239
Speaker 1: And that's kind of like just something that people already

106
00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,960
Speaker 1: do at a certain time of year. You know, gardeners

107
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,720
Speaker 1: will regularly start more plants than they need and then

108
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,960
Speaker 1: just kind of give them away to friends and neighbors

109
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,880
Speaker 1: and stuff. And we tried to just make it a

110
00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,560
Speaker 1: little bit more of an intentional thing. Um. And this

111
00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 1: was also kind of growing out of like at the

112
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 1: very beginning of the pandemic, and we were actually doing

113
00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,880
Speaker 1: seedling deliveries to people, which made sense of that time,

114
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,960
Speaker 1: but it was like very labor intensive. Um. So we

115
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,240
Speaker 1: kind of moved to this model of having just like

116
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:57,000
Speaker 1: free stands in front of houses on street corners in

117
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,160
Speaker 1: different places. Um. You know, there's already like a huch

118
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,240
Speaker 1: or free fridges around New Orleans and things like that,

119
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,640
Speaker 1: and so this is kind of like the free plant

120
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,960
Speaker 1: version of that. And it's really easy for somebody to

121
00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,400
Speaker 1: just set one up. Um. And then that kind of

122
00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 1: also allows us to like work on this other aspect

123
00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 1: of of decentralizing food production, because like that's definitely one

124
00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,680
Speaker 1: of our goals, right is to like not have a

125
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,960
Speaker 1: tiny percentage of the population be the only ones who

126
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 1: know how to grow food and doing it under the

127
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,040
Speaker 1: control of a tiny number of corporations that own all

128
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:30,640
Speaker 1: the land. And you know, obviously we're trying to get

129
00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 1: away from that food system, and so one of the

130
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,040
Speaker 1: ways we can think about doing that is finding ways

131
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,640
Speaker 1: to really decentralize some of the skills that are um,

132
00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,280
Speaker 1: that are necessary. So for example, like if somebody's growing

133
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:48,240
Speaker 1: avocados for our nurseries, UM, the thing about growing an

134
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:53,080
Speaker 1: avocado from a pit actually is that, uh, that tree

135
00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:58,880
Speaker 1: probably won't produce fruit. It actually needs to be grafted. UM.

136
00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,360
Speaker 1: So we can have people starting pits, and then we're

137
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,640
Speaker 1: also you know, sharing the knowledge of how to graph

138
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,680
Speaker 1: these things, UM, because we kind of like see a

139
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,480
Speaker 1: future in which a lot more people, um will need

140
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,320
Speaker 1: to be involved in food production. But also, like Mike

141
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,480
Speaker 1: was saying, like we want this to be not like

142
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,720
Speaker 1: a job that it feels like people have, but this

143
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,440
Speaker 1: joyous kind of thing that's just a part of everyday life. Yeah,

144
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,400
Speaker 1: what are the other things that I was I was

145
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,920
Speaker 1: interested in is you know, so so part of part

146
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,760
Speaker 1: of what I think the beginning of the Earth Performance

147
00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:44,280
Speaker 1: Romanac is about is talking about how I guess people

148
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,200
Speaker 1: people have this tendency to sort of focus on climate

149
00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,600
Speaker 1: change is just like the only sort of climate thing

150
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,959
Speaker 1: that's happening. And you know, I mean there's obviously the Yeah,

151
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,680
Speaker 1: there's there's a bunch of sort of stuff that is

152
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,000
Speaker 1: climate change. But isn't the weather that are sort of

153
00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:59,960
Speaker 1: you know, things like the phosphor cycle, things like the

154
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,080
Speaker 1: nitrogen cycle that are breaking. But simultaneously, I think it's

155
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 1: it's also true that you know that that that kind

156
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,400
Speaker 1: of stuff and this is also something that's that's talked

157
00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 1: about in there is is going to have a large

158
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,160
Speaker 1: impact both on sort of like even just what what

159
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,960
Speaker 1: kind of biomas exist in the in a very short term.

160
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 1: And you know, another product of that is, you know

161
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,160
Speaker 1: it is that the sort of increasing rate of storms.

162
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:26,760
Speaker 1: And I was wondering if you all could talk a

163
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 1: bit about what happened after Ida and how both just

164
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,760
Speaker 1: sort of in the short term in the long term

165
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,120
Speaker 1: that the sort of the increase of just hurricanes and

166
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,959
Speaker 1: I hesitate to call natural disasters because you know that

167
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,200
Speaker 1: there's there's a whole thing about how these disasters are

168
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,679
Speaker 1: sort of manufactured in a lot of ways, but how

169
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,640
Speaker 1: how that's been affecting how y'all think are sort of

170
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,040
Speaker 1: thinking about and working with these kind of mutual aid

171
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:55,520
Speaker 1: projects and food production. Yeah, so I think with IDA,

172
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,719
Speaker 1: it's kind of complicated because, UM, you can almost look

173
00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,880
Speaker 1: at look at it as like two different storms, um,

174
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,320
Speaker 1: because what happened in New Orleans versus what happened and

175
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,760
Speaker 1: say like um Homa or the river parishes, Um, these

176
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,000
Speaker 1: areas that are you know, generally south and west of

177
00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:18,400
Speaker 1: New Orleans. UM are are are kind of like two

178
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,880
Speaker 1: different uh animals in some ways, like what happened in

179
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,559
Speaker 1: New Orleans specifically relates to infrastructure. So like what you're saying,

180
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 1: like the kind of quote unquote natural disasters thing, that's um,

181
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,880
Speaker 1: you know, that's a pretty commonplace way of looking I

182
00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,680
Speaker 1: mean it's not a very radical um conception that like

183
00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,120
Speaker 1: these aren't natural disasters wherever the disasters is created. As

184
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,480
Speaker 1: soon as UM there was the attempt to create a

185
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,480
Speaker 1: colonial New Orleans in the first place. UM, so this

186
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,920
Speaker 1: became honestly part of like national discourse as a result

187
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,800
Speaker 1: of Katrina, most famously because of the Army cord engineers

188
00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:01,640
Speaker 1: failure UM teven five and UM. So what happened this

189
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:06,440
Speaker 1: year UM was with with Hurricane Ida. Was one of

190
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:11,920
Speaker 1: the main transmission towers for the the Energy Energy Corporation

191
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,360
Speaker 1: in New Orleans is called energy that outside of the

192
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,320
Speaker 1: Gulf South aren't familiar with. So the Entergy tower fell

193
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,160
Speaker 1: into the Mississippi River, and you had that happening at

194
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,199
Speaker 1: the same time that thousands of power lines fell down.

195
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,520
Speaker 1: The power lines are are are on poles and very

196
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,720
Speaker 1: prone to getting knocked down even just during the during

197
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,080
Speaker 1: any day of the week, UM. And so there wasn't

198
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,600
Speaker 1: actually really much flooding UM that was happening. It was

199
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,400
Speaker 1: it was primarily wind damage. So that the tower falls

200
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 1: into the river, power lines down. You had something like

201
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 1: I believe fifty five barges in the Port of South

202
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,920
Speaker 1: Louisiana falling into their falling off their moorings and floating

203
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,319
Speaker 1: around just crashing into things, just crash, just like there's

204
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,920
Speaker 1: like several ferries that connected east and west banks of

205
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,959
Speaker 1: the city. UM those fell off the worrings. So so

206
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,000
Speaker 1: like the physical infrastructure of the place and and how

207
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,760
Speaker 1: that relates to beyond New Orleans is. New Orleans is

208
00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,839
Speaker 1: located at the very um southern reach of the Mississippi

209
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,920
Speaker 1: Rivers port of south southern Louisiana, which is like a

210
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,040
Speaker 1: fifty five mile port I believe a fifty two port

211
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,840
Speaker 1: um that processes like six of all U S grain

212
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,800
Speaker 1: going to exports. So it's like a massive, really really

213
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:32,200
Speaker 1: important piece of American capitalist infrastructure. So that when when

214
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,959
Speaker 1: those boats follow their mornings, it's not like, oh this

215
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:40,640
Speaker 1: like whatever quaint like vyou problem, it's a very serious

216
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:46,040
Speaker 1: imperial problem. UM. But so for for the average person

217
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,839
Speaker 1: living in New Orleans, UM, this looked like I think

218
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,480
Speaker 1: I think it ended up being for most people around

219
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,360
Speaker 1: a week and a half without power, which if anyone's

220
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,560
Speaker 1: lived even with air conditioning in New Orleans for a summer, UM,

221
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,960
Speaker 1: it's extremely difficult to live uh here during the summer. UM.

222
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 1: It's that it's obviously not impossible when we have modern amenities,

223
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 1: but when you're when you're without those, when you're without

224
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,880
Speaker 1: the refrigerator, when we throughout without new freezer air conditioning,

225
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,719
Speaker 1: it's it's really really really hot. Um. You know, so

226
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,640
Speaker 1: that's what was happening in New Orleans. There was some

227
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,600
Speaker 1: some damage to people's rooms, there was some you know,

228
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,280
Speaker 1: fairly fairly substantial damage to the structures. But what happened

229
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,959
Speaker 1: to the west, in cities like Laplace, UM, which is

230
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:42,280
Speaker 1: about thirty miles west of New Orleans. UM, that's where

231
00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 1: you started to see like very severe flooding, very severe

232
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:53,280
Speaker 1: UM damage to structures, places like Homa, Lafitte, um Portchean,

233
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,800
Speaker 1: all these places that are closer to the coast. That's

234
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,000
Speaker 1: where you saw the real heavy destruction. So a lot

235
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,959
Speaker 1: of people have been framing let's been down the Bayou

236
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,960
Speaker 1: and in the river parishes, as we would say, um

237
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,120
Speaker 1: as like those places Katrina, because it's the destruction was

238
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,080
Speaker 1: was so total in that way. UM. So the way

239
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,160
Speaker 1: that you relate to UM, that type of again quote

240
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,840
Speaker 1: unquote disaster is much is much different, whereas what happened

241
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,480
Speaker 1: in New Orleans, UM is more of a continuation of

242
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,080
Speaker 1: of what could be called like a series of apocalypses

243
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,360
Speaker 1: that have been happening since colonization. UM. I think that's

244
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 1: a that's an interesting point also that that that I

245
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 1: want to talk about a little bit about US grain

246
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,360
Speaker 1: exports because I think that that's another part of this

247
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 1: whole food system question that is important on a scale

248
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,520
Speaker 1: that I don't think people understands, like you know, it's

249
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 1: just for furvent background for listeners. So when when all

250
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,280
Speaker 1: of the sort of giant like free trade agreements went

251
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,360
Speaker 1: into effect, um, you know, so so the free agerments

252
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:01,960
Speaker 1: are like, okay, you're you're not supposed to be able

253
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,280
Speaker 1: to like have government subsidies of agricultural products. And there's

254
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,840
Speaker 1: there's a couple of carve outs that were put into

255
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,320
Speaker 1: this now almost all of them. There are exceptions for

256
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,920
Speaker 1: there's a couple of like weird manufacturing stuff in like

257
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 1: Italy and Germany that have carve outs. And the other

258
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,000
Speaker 1: big one is that the US government is allowed to

259
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,920
Speaker 1: just do enormous levels of agricultural subsidies that no one

260
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,880
Speaker 1: else like really in the world is allowed to like

261
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,000
Speaker 1: match or I mean do it. Like you know, you

262
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 1: know if if if you try to have grand subsidies, right,

263
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:32,800
Speaker 1: it's like you know, the I M F will come

264
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,720
Speaker 1: after you, like you know, you're not allowed to do it.

265
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,160
Speaker 1: But then you know somethings that you have the US

266
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,200
Speaker 1: producing all of this like this. I mean it it's

267
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,800
Speaker 1: it's not it's not really cheap, right, but it's it's

268
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,520
Speaker 1: you know, this enormously subsidized grain that nobody can actually

269
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,360
Speaker 1: really compete with. And I think that's that's like an

270
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,520
Speaker 1: interesting I was wondering what, like, how how how do

271
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,840
Speaker 1: you guys think about that in terms of you know,

272
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 1: try trying to do decentralized I guess, a your culture

273
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 1: in a place that's to a large extent this sort

274
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 1: of like conduit of grain to the rest of the world,

275
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 1: but in a way that like also inhibits those places

276
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,840
Speaker 1: from actually you know, having their own kind of like

277
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,880
Speaker 1: essentialized a your culture. UM. I mean I can speak

278
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 1: a little bit about like what that kind of does

279
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,680
Speaker 1: to our context of like making it, like especially when

280
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,880
Speaker 1: I see people in the kind of organic gardening farming

281
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,120
Speaker 1: world trying to go on this model of like, oh,

282
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:37,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna make you know, regenerative agriculture profitable, and we're

283
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 1: gonna make it somehow compete with conventional agriculture. UM. And

284
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,080
Speaker 1: I guess I just don't really think that that is

285
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,280
Speaker 1: feasible in that in that terrain. Like you know, if

286
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,960
Speaker 1: if we're trying to compete on that same terrain, and

287
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 1: we're competing with these absurd subsidies. It definitely just the

288
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,440
Speaker 1: same problem that you see around the world world where

289
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,440
Speaker 1: people aren't able to afford to grow their own thing

290
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 1: because there's no way they can they can sell it

291
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,920
Speaker 1: as cheaply as as us grain. Um. So I think

292
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,280
Speaker 1: it's more important to sort of like look at like

293
00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 1: there's there's a piece in the almanac actually that sort

294
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 1: of gets into this this issue of like, well, are

295
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:22,200
Speaker 1: we really growing enough food in this regenerative way, Like

296
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,360
Speaker 1: you know, we don't even hardly grow that many grains

297
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,360
Speaker 1: or that many high calorie things. A lot of things

298
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,479
Speaker 1: are just focused on vegetables and things like that. And like,

299
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,080
Speaker 1: I think that's a really important critique. And also I

300
00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 1: think that the way out of it isn't just gonna

301
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:41,159
Speaker 1: be us trying harder or something or um Like the

302
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 1: future iron vision for us, like really changing the food

303
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 1: system kind of involves like really large scale expropriation of

304
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,480
Speaker 1: that land where the grain is being produced and of

305
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,560
Speaker 1: those huge machineries, those huge like satellite powered or satellite

306
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: directed you know, allows and tractors and whatnot that are

307
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,240
Speaker 1: that are doing this stuff UM. And so like when

308
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,520
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think about like the impact that a

309
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,240
Speaker 1: food project is having, or like a food justice project,

310
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 1: I don't try to think like we're trying to replace

311
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,320
Speaker 1: uh aggro business on its own terms. I think like

312
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,679
Speaker 1: we're trying to be an ally or an aid to

313
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,840
Speaker 1: any kind of antagonistic sort of social movement that actually

314
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:30,800
Speaker 1: is going to create the conditions where like we can

315
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 1: all get together and start to actually address these problems

316
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 1: UM without being hindered by you know, things like private property.

317
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 1: So I guess that that that that's a good point

318
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 1: to to jump into the Almanac from. I think, yeah,

319
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 1: do do you want to just introduce the project a

320
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,520
Speaker 1: little bit and then we can talk about some of

321
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 1: the stuff in it that I thought was really interesting. Yeah,

322
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,119
Speaker 1: So the Almanac kind of came out of like a

323
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 1: little bit of a like partially is like a joke.

324
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 1: You know, we're like everyone gets the uh UM Almanac

325
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 1: and kind of you know, it doesn't really relate too

326
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 1: much to UM like most of us what we would

327
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,920
Speaker 1: be growing UM. So we had we had posited something

328
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 1: like different, you know, something that that does kind of

329
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 1: grapple with some of the questions of you know, growing

330
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 1: food and kind of the conditions we live in. Maybe

331
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,479
Speaker 1: you can speak kind of yeah, I can even just

332
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,919
Speaker 1: I'll actually just read the back of it, because I

333
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 1: think it speaks to it pretty well. This is a

334
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 1: farmer's almanac for the end of the world. Growing food

335
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,879
Speaker 1: used to be a lot more straightforward, when you plant

336
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,160
Speaker 1: your okra at the same time every year like your

337
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 1: grandpa did. Now we've got to be ready for anything,

338
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 1: late spring freezes, freak heat waves that bring plants out

339
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: of dormancy, to early fire season longer every year, the

340
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 1: polar vortex, and if that wasn't enough, we've also got

341
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,120
Speaker 1: to contend with the fallout from breakages in the global

342
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 1: supply chain. When millions of gallons of milk get poured

343
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 1: down the drain and mountain of potatoes are left to rock.

344
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 1: It's a world that calls for a new kind of

345
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 1: farmers almanac. Today's crisis has roots in the earliest moments

346
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 1: of land theft against Native people's, a process that has

347
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 1: continued alongside hundreds of years of slavery and colonization. The

348
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 1: way forward out of this mess will mean grappling with

349
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: the crimes of the past. As well as charting a

350
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 1: new course guided by black and Indigenous knowledge, creative experimentation

351
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 1: and food production, and paying attention across generational and species divides.

352
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: So I mean, what one like very concrete example of

353
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 1: like how this farmer's almanac is different than what you

354
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 1: might see just from the standard almanac is um, you know,

355
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 1: we we don't have like oh, it's it's May, it's

356
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 1: time to plant corn or whatever, because I mean, first

357
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 1: of all, that that was never that useful as for

358
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 1: a publication that's meant to be used across this vast continent.

359
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's going to be different everywhere, um, where

360
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 1: you're going to plant things at which time? Um. But

361
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: also like those standard resources that we would go to

362
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,959
Speaker 1: like for here, for the southeast for example, or wherever,

363
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: Like if you're looking at something that was made a

364
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 1: few decades ago, it's not going to actually be accurate

365
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 1: or it's going to give you undo certainty about where

366
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,159
Speaker 1: the seasons line up and things like that. So you know,

367
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 1: instead of telling people exactly when to plant their seeds,

368
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,640
Speaker 1: we have a chart that has the actual German nation

369
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: temperatures of like all the major annual vegetables that people

370
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: would want to grow. UM. And then we also have

371
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 1: like the monthly notes from this local farm in New Orleans,

372
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: so you know, located in this area. You can you

373
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: can also get a really precise view of like oh

374
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: they were planning this, then they were harvesting this. Then. Yeah.

375
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: I think that we hope to make something that was

376
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 1: you know, our our original focus was something that was

377
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: specific to New Orleans in the region, UM, you know,

378
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: in the Gulf South and the Southeast generally. UM, because

379
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 1: we're so aware of the you know, the differences or

380
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: what have you between growing through here and growing food

381
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 1: in Ohio or something or whatever, and we all get

382
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: these same seeds you know, out of Walmart or Lows

383
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: or whatever and try and grow the exact same plants

384
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: all over the place to trying to um hone in

385
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: on some of that local perspective. UM with me with

386
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 1: in terms of like getting some like folk tradition, getting

387
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 1: some um, you know, anecdotal evidence about you know, things

388
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: that worked with things that people are trying UM. And

389
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: I think that that was that was fairly successful. UM.

390
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: I think I think aside that we weren't really expecting

391
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: as much was just the amount of national and even

392
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 1: international UM kind of grasp that it had UM. I

393
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 1: think a lot of people like could could use something

394
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: like this in their area UM. And it's fostered some

395
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: really interesting connections for people that are experimenting in New York,

396
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: for people that are are growing things or thinking about

397
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,959
Speaker 1: maybe UM food systems and how they relate to prisons

398
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: in California or UM even you know, as far away

399
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: as Brazil. UM. It's kind of began to foster a

400
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: connection between Labelia Commons and a group called the BOGUS,

401
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: which translates roughly to like the Web of People's UM

402
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: in Brazil, so called Brazil UM, where it's kind of

403
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: like experimental agroecology project that's very specific UM specifically focused

404
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: on UM, you know, sovereignty, land stewardship, kind of following

405
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: a little bit in the tradition of the Landless Workers movement.

406
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: If anyone's familiar with mst UM, it's kind of following

407
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: in that tradition a bit UM, but is heavily stewarded

408
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 1: by Black and Indigenous knowledges. Yes, so I was something

409
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: I think of a like a kind of pleasant surprise

410
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: out of it. Yeah, I thought that was that was

411
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: really interesting way of looking at it, because I feel

412
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 1: like there's this tendency in the US too, you know

413
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: when when when when we talk about sort of a

414
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: relationship to the land, which which is something that comes

415
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: up a lot in in the sort of essays that

416
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,239
Speaker 1: are are in the All Neck is about, you know,

417
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 1: like there there there there's a piece that I related

418
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: to a lot, which is about someone from Guam trying

419
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 1: to sort of deal with like I mean particularly like

420
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: legacies or Japanese imperialism and being driven from their home.

421
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 1: And it was like, oh, hey, look like this is yeah,

422
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: you know is this is this is someone who experienced

423
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: which when Japan went west. And I was like, oh yeah,

424
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: my family had this basically very similar thing when they

425
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: went east. And you know, but but there's there's I think, yeah,

426
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: and I think it's very smartly you get you get

427
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 1: to a point very quickly where you're trying to grapple

428
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: with you know, how do how do you build connections

429
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: to land? But then also how how does that work

430
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: in a context in you know, in a context that's

431
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: basically defined by southern colonialism and defined by by this

432
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: sort by this occupation. And I think looking at the

433
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: MSc looking at a lot of stuff that happened in

434
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: Latin America. I mean there there's very similar to what

435
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: you guys were talking about. In Brazil, there was a

436
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: huge movement like this that was indigenous land recormation sort

437
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: of agrocology in in Columbia for example too in the nineties,

438
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 1: and they they run into this problem of you know,

439
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: there's there's a civil war going on in Columbia and

440
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: they a lot of them getting murdered by sort of

441
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: state paramilitary is in the army. But I think it's

442
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: it's a it's a really interesting way of of looking

443
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: at what what does what does lambak actually look like?

444
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: And how how you deal with interacting with land. And also, yeah,

445
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: the lands workers in particular, they use a lot of methods,

446
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: but you know they actually do just take a like

447
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: an enormous amount of land like back from this state

448
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: and sort of back from corporate things. So I'm interested

449
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: in how we all started talking to a lot of

450
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: these a lot of the Brazilian groups, and how that

451
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: sort of like that that perspective is shaped the way

452
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: that like this, this this whole sort of project turned out. Um,

453
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: So we were specifically to dispose UM some previous connections

454
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: that some of us had UM in Brazil had when

455
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: talking about what we were doing and just kind of

456
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: keeping up an exchange of uh, you know, just like

457
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: kind of updates from from the Gulf, and they would

458
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: send updates from things going on down there. They kind

459
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: of do the connection for us and put us towards them.

460
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: And I reached out to day Dispobos and was like, hey,

461
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 1: we're you know, we're doing this thing, and I, you know,

462
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: and inspired by what you're doing personally and UM, you know,

463
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: I I'd be curious to see what what what kind

464
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: of relationship whatever we can foster. And they took it UM,

465
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: you know, also with with some inspiration, seeing that this

466
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: very clear connection in terms of relationship with land historically,

467
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: this possession historically between the two continents across the Caribbean UM,

468
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: the implementation on a wide scale of plantation, monoculture UM.

469
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: It that was fueled entirely by slavery and genocide UM.

470
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: And And I think that having that kind of like

471
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: shared common history, I think gives us a good bedrock

472
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: to like UM exchange notes about where we are now

473
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: kind of multiplied by the fact that the way that um, yeah,

474
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: so called emancipation happened here versus in Brazil, radically different

475
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: UM the UM like the for instance, the existence of

476
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: PET or the Workers Party in Brazil being such a

477
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: force after the dictatorship and having that like strong populist

478
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: movement UM that was you know, rooted a very traditional

479
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: left UM that that fueled MST. Well, you don't have

480
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: anything like that here. You know that that happens at

481
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: the same time that here, Actually the workers movement in

482
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: the US was was kind of getting defeated, I mean

483
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 1: them up in the seventies. So with respect to like

484
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: UM land back specifically, UM, you know, I don't know

485
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: if you I don't know if you will see it

486
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: in the same forms. I doubt at least obviously would

487
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: totally be there cheering it on. And I'm happy to

488
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: see it, UM. But I think it looks a lot

489
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: more like during the uprising last year. You saw in Chicago,

490
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: for instance, UM, the when when like the trains were

491
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: being expropriated as they were moving, taking goods out of

492
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: these box cars, UM, and just expropriate in tons of goods,

493
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: taking you know, taking goods that would normally be going

494
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: you know, just commodities normally going to court just cut

495
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: off in the middle of line or you know, UM,

496
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: these these these these kind of like more um ah,

497
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: I don't want to say small scale, but um focus

498
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: more on like infrastructural choke points rather than necessarily um,

499
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: like having thousands of people swarming uh you know, a

500
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: massive industrial agriculture UM set up in Kansas or something.

501
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, yeah, I think it's great to imagine that.

502
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: I think I really love sharing the history of MST

503
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: with people in America who have never heard it before,

504
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: because I think it's a great way to kind of

505
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: expand the imaginary of like what is possible, like what

506
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: kind of actions are actually at our disposal like it

507
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: and it truly is not, you know, look exactly like that.

508
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: And I think it's also really important for us to

509
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: like not forget a lot of the similar histories here,

510
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: like um. Part of the inspiration for the Almanac or

511
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,479
Speaker 1: what kind of drove us to to make it was

512
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: some of us were doing a reading group of this

513
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: book called Freedom Farmers that's about kind of like various

514
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: uh um, black projects in the South for food autonomy

515
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: after slavery, and a lot of it is about Fannie

516
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: Let Hammer and UM Freedom Farms, and you know, we've

517
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: we're definitely inspired for some of the little Bilia things

518
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: by UM Fannie Leehammer's pig bank, which was a really

519
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: cool thing where they just like started with a bunch

520
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: of pigs and if you were in the community, like

521
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: you get you get your pigs from, you get a

522
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: couple of piglets from the pig bank, and then the

523
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: inch risked on that is a couple of years later

524
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: you got to give them a couple of pigs because

525
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: you're producing your own pigs, and so the pig bank

526
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: is like self sustaining. UM. And another thing from that

527
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: book that was inspiring to us was UM reading about

528
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: George Washington Carver's public education projects out of Tuskegee University

529
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: that were UM just really inspiring in terms of like

530
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: he was doing all of his own kind of independent

531
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: research about soils and pests and all these different crops

532
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: and everything and creating these farm bulletins that were then

533
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: being distributed h to black farmers throughout the region to

534
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, share better practices, and a lot

535
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: of the stuff was like agro ecology before people had

536
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: that word like he was very far ahead of his

537
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: time in terms of understanding soil dynamics and and passed

538
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: and things like that. Um, so yeah, we we definitely

539
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: try to try to lift up all that history as

540
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: much as possible. Yeah, I guess what Whene're the ether.

541
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: Thing I thought was very interesting that you alluded to

542
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: briefly in this was Yeah, because there's there's a session

543
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: of this is talking about food in prisons, and I

544
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: wonder if you could talk about that part a little

545
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: bit more, because that's a connection that I that I

546
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: really don't think it's drawn very often here on me

547
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: flip to the piece, right, I mean one of the

548
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: things that it's kind of hard to describe. I do

549
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: love the visual that that we have for this piece,

550
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean it's just like the it's a

551
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: striking image, you know. It's got like, um, in the center,

552
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: there's a picture of a really high density chicken operation

553
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: and there's somebody wearing sort of like a full tibex

554
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: suit suit and just walking through this like massive herd

555
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: of chickens. And then that's super imposed over this just

556
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,719
Speaker 1: like really nasty looking close up photo of a prison

557
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: food draining and just like the canned veggies and the everything.

558
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: And like, I mean, I don't I've been to jail

559
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: a number of times, and the food is always terrible.

560
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: It's always one of the things that you talk about

561
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: or you can bond over or whatever. It's just how

562
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: bad the food is. But I think people who haven't

563
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: experienced that don't really think about just how much systematic

564
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: like starvation is going on and mannutrition is going on,

565
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: where it's like the only way you can possibly survive

566
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: in these places is spending a bunch of extra money

567
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: on commissary to get stuff that also isn't healthy, but

568
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: at least you can get more calories and stuff. Um.

569
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: And like I think that that there's like a lot

570
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: of parallels between kind of the structure of prisons and

571
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: the structure of our of our food system. Um. I

572
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: mean one example that I used to talk about this

573
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: is like the banana plantation, um, where like the you know,

574
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: we have an entire variety of banana that's like basically

575
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,719
Speaker 1: stanct or it's it can't be grown commercially anymore because

576
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: the banana industry, you know, functions by putting like warehousing

577
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: these banas together and these like super tight plantation formations,

578
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: you know, which really only makes sense if you're just

579
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: trying to maximize your profits and get as much out

580
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: of a small space as possible. But what it does

581
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: is is the exact same thing that happens in prisons

582
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: during COVID or with any kind of uh, you know,

583
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 1: pathogen like tuberculosis or whatever. Um. You know, it's it's

584
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 1: like the trees are so close together that the fungus

585
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: spread so rapidly, and then they're also like pumping all

586
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: these things into to fight that, and they're actually breeding

587
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: super funguses all the time. And at some point the

588
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: banana that we eat now is going to also stop

589
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: existing because of this. Um. And I guess I don't

590
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: know if I can draw anything deeper out of those

591
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: similarities than the fact that there's this like overriding logic

592
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: of capitalism that is just like has no respect for

593
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: these beings, like whether it is a person or a minatory,

594
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: Like it's all just commodities and things to be warehouse.

595
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I think. UM to add on that, I

596
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: mean this this is the piece in there which is

597
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: called the struggle for good food across walls. Um, I

598
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: think it does a nice job of talking about how like, um,

599
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: you know, if we're talking about quote unquote food, food

600
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: justice or what have you, like, UM like, how can

601
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: we talk about that on the outside of all forgetting

602
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: about just the most deplorable UM food conditions on the

603
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: entire continent. UM. And I think that that it's it's

604
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: really good at that. I think I would really like

605
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: to see in the next year all the ways that um,

606
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: the imaginaries of of inmates kind of go in in

607
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: like attack that UM the like the lodge of prison

608
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: food being completely deplorable. Like you know, you have all

609
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: these forms of creativity of like making tortillas and stuff

610
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: and like doing wild things with like stuff that's in

611
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: the commissary, you know, contraband kind of ways of of

612
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: making kind of life a little bit more livable in there.

613
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: And and if anyone has um spent time in jail

614
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: or prison or or kept up a relationship with someone

615
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: on the inside or what have you, UM, everyone has

616
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: a story about a way of UM making making food

617
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: more UM interesting and joyful, and and like there becomes

618
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: whole cultures around them. One of the things that we're

619
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: starting to do in one of the farm spaces we

620
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: work with outside of the city is is UM through

621
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: pre existing relationships with inmates in Angola State Penitentiary in Louisiana, which,

622
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: for those that don't know, UM was a plantation civil

623
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: War happens two years after the Civil War, it becomes

624
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: a Louisiana State pen Potentiary. It's still a plantation. It's

625
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: you know, uh this many times the descendants of the

626
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 1: same enslaved folks who were on that plantation prior UM

627
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: and you know it's a it's a guard on a

628
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: horseback riding around while these UM folks pulling cotton, UM

629
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: and so so through some of these relationships with some

630
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: of these inmates who are m like kind of uh

631
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: clandestine organizers, UM, we're starting to come up with ways

632
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 1: to like grow food collaboratively with folks that are behind

633
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: walls and and find ways to get food to either

634
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: their family or maybe sell and get that into their commissary.

635
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 1: Kind of just like trying to um spitball ideas about

636
00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: like different ways of producing food despite people's incarceration. Yeah,

637
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: that that seems that seems like a really I guess

638
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: we're you can really say is a necessary way for

639
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: for this sort of food politics to go if it's

640
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: going to actually deal with sort of both the land

641
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: conditions and the conditions of just you know the fact

642
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: that we haven't in that there's still just an enormous

643
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: slafe population the US. And I think that kind of

644
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: resistance in creativity, I think is how Yeah y'all, are

645
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: y'll on the right track with with pushing it that way? Yeah?

646
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: That this is this is sort of a bleique note

647
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: to end on, I think, but I don't know. I

648
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: think it's yeah, it's a it's a it's a hopeful

649
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: one too, And where can people find but basically all

650
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: of your's work. And then also you talked a little

651
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: bit about trying to get submissions for everything, So can

652
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about how that how that's

653
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: gonna work. Yeah, Um, so we're it's it's kind of

654
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: been on hold a little bit because we've been like

655
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: very active after IDA. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, trying

656
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: to make sure our people are all good and supporting

657
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: um in various places UM kind of doing like different

658
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: workshops and stuff. And and because that our focus isn't

659
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: just on food production, it's also like neighborhood survival or whatever.

660
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: So we've been UM working with an old UM neighbor

661
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: of one of ours who UM. You know, she's already

662
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: been kind of doing this mutual aid stuff you know

663
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: by any other name for decades, you know, letting people

664
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: stay in their house, UM, feeding people. UM. She's like

665
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 1: kind of like a block MoMA and she's really one

666
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: of the last UM black home others in her neighborhood.

667
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: So we're really trying to like help her achieve some autonomy.

668
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: One way that we've been putting it is UM when

669
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: all the airbnbs like lose their power because they're still

670
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: reliant on the colonial world, Well, miss Elfie I could

671
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: still have her lights on because she's going to be

672
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: totally autonomous from the system. So UM, I think that

673
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: that link is on our Instagram page if you click

674
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: on the like UM the link or whatever, there's a

675
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: go fund me that UM is UH where we've been

676
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: putting a lot of our effort and really working with

677
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: her on UM and then also like growing growing a

678
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: garden like adjacent to her so that the people in

679
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: that community are are food as as food autonomous as

680
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: UM as we can get we can we can put

681
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: it in the show notes yeah, and the the handle

682
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: for both Twitter and Instagram is at Lobilia Commons and

683
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: the Almanac. You can find links to the Almanac pdf

684
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: on through either of those um if you want to

685
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: just read it for free, and then UM there's also

686
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: copies for sale on emergent Goods dot com. And for

687
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: um submissions, I mean, yeah, like I said, we've been

688
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: really behind on this just because of all this stuff,

689
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: But for submissions, we're really um looking for folks um

690
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: to contribute. Throw us a pitch. UM. I think if

691
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: you've seen the first one or I've listened to this,

692
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 1: you probably get something of an idea of what we're

693
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: looking for UM, and we're happy to like talk to

694
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: people about, like, you know, different ideas and bear with

695
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 1: us if we're a little slower to spawn because we're

696
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: you know, kind of still waist deep right now. But yes,

697
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: submission for deadlines is the end of October UM, and

698
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: you can email ideas or pitches or whatever to Lobelia

699
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: Commons at proton mail dot com. And lastly, the project

700
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: that I'm most focused on is the front Yard Orchard Initiative,

701
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: where basically we just propagate as many fruit trees as

702
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: cheaply as possible. Things that are really easy for us

703
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: to grow from cuttings like figs, mulberries, things they're easy

704
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: to grow from seed, like papaya, maringa, pecan um. And

705
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: we basically just have some nice flyers that we put

706
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: up and we advertise a bit on social media and

707
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: also just kind of go door to door in neighborhoods

708
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: where we already have gardens or connections and offer to

709
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: give free fruit trees out to people, and we're also

710
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: happy to plant them for people and then kind of

711
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: offer a consultation on how to take care of it

712
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: or whatever. And also if folks want to hear some

713
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: of the pieces from the Earthbound Farmers Almanac read by

714
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: some of the authors and then some interviews with those authors,

715
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: you can check out this podcast called Partisan Gardens that

716
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: did a really good episode that's kind of like an

717
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 1: audio exploration of the Almanac. Cool. Yeah, people, people definitely

718
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: definitely go read the Almanac. Is it's it's it's a

719
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 1: it's a really good it's a really good piece of work.

720
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: Um yeah, thank thank you too so much for joining us.

721
00:42:51,680 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: Thank you for you suddenly wake up to the loud

722
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: growling of a tactical vehicle must have left your window open.

723
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: A few streets away, you can hear the troopers doing

724
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: their morning patrols. This is closing in on week four

725
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: of the all day curfew. Cops and state troopers have

726
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: put checkpoints at every bridge and on all major streets

727
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: for about every ten blocks. Your friends and the city's

728
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: local liberal majority are now calling this what it is.

729
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: Your city is functioning as a full on police state.

730
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 1: National establishment media has been more hesitants to use that term,

731
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: but your Fox watching conservative family from out of state

732
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: has been texting you about how good it is that

733
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: someone is finally establishing law and order and taking back

734
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: the town. After months of senseless looting and destructive riots,

735
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: You've been mostly stuck in your downtown apartment. You quit

736
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: your job when the recent amount of protests started up,

737
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: which now means you don't qualify for the working hours

738
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: exemption of the curfew. You've got enough money saved up

739
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 1: for another month, but you're looking to get a grocery

740
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: delivery job, which would have the added benefit of allowing

741
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: you to go outside during the day. Luckily, you've been

742
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: able to sneak out at night to do rooftopping and

743
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: surveil the police's checkpoints and patrol routes in your neighborhood.

744
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: You've noticed that the cops rarely look up. You've been

745
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: feeding your intail into a surveillance database shared on a

746
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: telegram channel ran by some various activists. After lying in

747
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: bed gathering your thoughts for a few minutes, you finally

748
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: roll out and pick out your clothes. Dark loose pants,

749
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: a plane shirt, beanie, and a highs jacket. Ordinarily, you'd

750
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: break into your red bull stache for morning caffeine, but

751
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: you've already got plenty of energy. Today it's your boyfriend's birthday,

752
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: and for the past week you've been planning to surprise him.

753
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: You think there's finally enough information in the surveillance database

754
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: to plan a trip us town with little to no

755
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:06,280
Speaker 1: law enforcement interaction. Between the in person reconnaissance and hacking

756
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: into the city's traffic cams, which was surprisingly easy, you've

757
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 1: been able to figure out a route using city buses

758
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 1: and on foot that should be able to avoid checkpoints

759
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: and the regular patrol routes from what you've seen online.

760
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: Bus drivers won't ask for your work authorization card, and

761
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: you're hoping the high his jacket will make it look

762
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: like you belong. Lastly, before you leave, you grab your

763
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: small yellow messenger bag and jam in a water bottle

764
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 1: plus a ten of a half a dozen cupcakes. Deep breaths, slowly,

765
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: twist the handle of your door, and stare down in

766
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 1: your apartment hallway. You're on your way. You keep telling yourself,

767
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: just act like you belong. After taking the stairs down

768
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 1: to ground level, you make your way street side. This

769
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: part you feel more confident about. You've been able to

770
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: study the patrol patterns around your media area more carefully.

771
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: The bus stop you're going to was just four blocks away.

772
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: You can zig zig through two streets and to avoid

773
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: the main drags. As you walk through the sidewalks, you

774
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: keep your head down, but your eyes are darting side

775
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,479
Speaker 1: to side to get a lay of the land. Don't

776
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: walk too fast or too slow. Match the people around you. Obviously,

777
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: not many people are out right now, but there are

778
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: enough to mirror their movement and pace. It feels like

779
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,479
Speaker 1: it took forever, but you get to the bus stop

780
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: without incident or seeing a single cop. Waiting at bus

781
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: stops always feels like an eternity, but today it's worse.

782
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: Within a few minutes, the blue metro bus does pull up.

783
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: The bus driver gestures you on. The electronic ticketing system

784
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: isn't turned on. You peek up to the driver. The

785
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 1: look in her eyes is telling you just a head

786
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: on back. At least you know she's probably on your side.

787
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: You picked this bus not because it's the most direct

788
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 1: route to your boyfriend's place. It's not, but because he

789
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: gets you close enough while avoiding the checkpoints you and

790
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: your internet buddies have mapped out. It's a slower, more

791
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 1: jagged route, but at least you get to relax for

792
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: a while and enjoy the ride. And hey, you can

793
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: get an in person look at the rest of the

794
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: city under the curfew and police occupation. The ride is

795
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: now closing in on a little over half an hour,

796
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: about ten more minutes until you get off. Your heart's

797
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: racing you might actually do this. In your flash of

798
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: nervous excitement, you look up ahead on the road and

799
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: your face drops. About half a mile up ahead, you

800
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: spot a checkpoint. Fuck no, this, this is wrong. This

801
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 1: wasn't on the map. The checkpoint on this street was

802
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: supposed to be further up the road. After you get off,

803
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: your mind flashes through different possibilities. Did the cops change

804
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: the checkpoint this morning? Wait? Did the police find the

805
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: database map on telegram? And are getting at false info?

806
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: You stop yourself from thinking because you realize you need

807
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 1: to act now and think later. You jump out of

808
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: your seat and sprint up the bus towards the driver.

809
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,760
Speaker 1: You blurt out, I need to get off this right now. Please.

810
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 1: The draw ever looks ahead, looks at you, and tilts

811
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: her head down and pulls over quick. That's all she

812
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: says to you. You dart out of the bus and

813
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: into the half residential, half retail labyrinth, and as you're

814
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: running you hear sirens. Fuck they saw you. Your head

815
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: swivels around to catch a glance. One car from the

816
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: checkpoint is headed your way. You hope the bus driver

817
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: doesn't get in trouble, but right now that's not your problem,

818
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: you think. First thing you need to do is prevent

819
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 1: the vehicle from pursuing you. So off the big streets.

820
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: You take a second to tighten the messenger bag around

821
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: your body. And here we go to You're right. You

822
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: see a walled courtyard for a small two story apartment.

823
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: Estimate the wall is eight feet tall. Doable. You turn

824
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 1: out the street and run towards the wall, slowly gaining speed,

825
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: jump up and punch your foot on the side. Then

826
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: your arms reach up and grab the top. It's a

827
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: bit of a struggle to pull yourself up. You've got

828
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: some stuff weighing you down and you're a bit out

829
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,399
Speaker 1: of practice, but you get up. You hop down onto

830
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: the other side and keep going for now. You batrol

831
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 1: through some dense bushes and vault a few small railings

832
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: as you traverse the side streets. Soon enough, you're far

833
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: enough away from the car, with plenty of obstacles in

834
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: between you and it that you feel like you can

835
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: catch a quick breather. Now you have a choice hide

836
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: it out here for a bit or figure out a

837
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 1: way to your boyfriends. You still got a decent sense

838
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 1: of where you are. The destination should be only about

839
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: ten blocks away. Now in a diagonal direction, you'll get

840
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: plenty of time to rest your boyfriend's place, so you

841
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: figure you should continue on. As you're about to head

842
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 1: on your way to armored state troopers turned the corner

843
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: on foot. You remember you're still pretty close to the checkpoint.

844
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: One look at you with your hands on your knees.

845
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: As you pant. The cops know you're out of place. Stop,

846
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: yells the cop. You're being detained. Fuck, time to book it.

847
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: Gonna have to think as you run. Good news is

848
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 1: is that they're armor. Bad news is that you're tired

849
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: and your outfit is blown. You can change clothes once

850
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: you get to your boyfriends, so you decide the best

851
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: course of action now is to make it hard for

852
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: two people in armor to follow you. Time to put

853
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: some obstacles between you and them. You're already mostly out

854
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: of the retail area, which means it's time to hop

855
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: some backyard fences Ferris Bueller's Day Off Shit. You make

856
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 1: a sharp left turn behind a car and into someone's

857
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 1: yard and up and over their fence. One hand grabs

858
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: on top, one hand goes to the far side, and

859
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: you flip your body over. Next few fences are shorter,

860
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: regular speed vaults will do. The sound of the clinky

861
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: tactle boots chasing you gets quieter as you traverse through

862
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: the yards and zig zigging around blocks. Before you know it,

863
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: you're on the back street of your partner's place. Only

864
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: a few more steps and you can see their backyard

865
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: in the distance. You quick to in your head and

866
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 1: look around. From what you can see, you've lost the

867
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: State troopers. You scurry through four more yards before you

868
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: reach your target. You let it a sigh of relief.

869
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: You jog past the side yard towards the front. You

870
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: probably should use the front door before you knock. You

871
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: take a look inside your messenger bag. You unclipped the latch,

872
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:10,439
Speaker 1: and inside lies a smushed pile of cupcake crumbs with

873
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 1: pink frosting coating insides of your bag. H Well, at

874
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 1: least I made it in one piece, you say out loud.

875
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: After an exhausting trek, you finally knock on the door.

876
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: It could happen here. Podcast Robert Evans. Sophie is not

877
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: here today, so I get to open the episode with

878
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: a tonal grunting um because she was unable to stop me.

879
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast that this is talking about things

880
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,919
Speaker 1: falling apart? How to you know make it not? Maybe? Uh?

881
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: My guest today, well, my my co host today first

882
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: is Garrison Davis. Garrison, how are you doing today? I'm

883
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: doing good good. We have a little bit of a

884
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: fun update. This actually happened last week but this will

885
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: be the first episode we're recording since it happened. UM.

886
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: Last week we put up some links to ago fund

887
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: me and a couple of different episodes of Bastards and

888
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 1: of It Could Happen here to try to help a

889
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: woman named Ruba who lives in Portland, UM and is

890
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: a community activists save her house. UM. When we started

891
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: the fundraiser, she'd raised about twenty eight grand to to

892
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 1: you know, get basically keep her home. UM, and it's

893
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: up to the fifty grand she needed. Y'all did that

894
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: in about three days. UM. So you've you've you've kept

895
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: a woman in her home UM and allowed her and

896
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: her family to stay where they are. And I'm just

897
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: extremely grateful to everybody who donated, who shared. UM. It's

898
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: just awesome. UM. You know this comes after earlier in

899
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: this year you all funded the Portland Diaper Bank. UM.

900
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 1: I just continued to be very impressed with with how

901
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 1: how much people who listen to these shows are willing

902
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: to throw down to help people out. So thank you all. UH,

903
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 1: and now I'm going to hand it off to Garrison. Garrison,

904
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: what don't we what do we? What do we? What

905
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: are we? What are we? What are we talking about today?

906
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: So today we're gonna be talking about and discussing two

907
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: of kind of my favorite practical skill sets hey been

908
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: training for I don't know seven eight, I think almost

909
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: eight years now. UM, and it's what, yeah, one of

910
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: one of my favorite interests. It's useful very practically. It's

911
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: also useful for fun. We're talking about, uh parkour, which

912
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: people may have hurt me discussed before, but also just

913
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: kind of like stealth in general, um, and how to

914
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: become mindful of your presence among other people. UM. As

915
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: a big, clumsy guy who's worked extensively with you in

916
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:46,240
Speaker 1: aggressive situations, I can confirm that your parkour is very

917
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: very effective because you are a fast, little set of

918
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: a bit very good at getting away from the cops

919
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 1: and getting to where you need to be to film things.

920
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: It was always, um kind of amazing, as frustrating as

921
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 1: it was sometimes when you would when you would start

922
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: out ahead of everybody, but yeah, I can't argue with

923
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: the results. So and to help us kind of talk

924
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: about parkorn and stealth, I have brought on a friend

925
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: of mine who is the person who mostly taught me

926
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: um parker and stealth. My friend Rick, who has been

927
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: teaching Parker for a long time. UM, say hi Rick,

928
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: that that that's right. Rick is very not super social,

929
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: so it's I think it's amazing that I was able

930
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,800
Speaker 1: to convince him to come in a podcast. Pretty funny. Um.

931
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 1: First off, Rick, do you want to kind of just

932
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: like give your definition of like park or in general,

933
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: because I know whenever we say Parker, everyone just thinks

934
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 1: to the office, um, which I know you find frustrating.

935
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, for people who maybe aren't as into it

936
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: as us, don't want to just give the kind of

937
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 1: a brief overview of of Parker as like a concept. Uh,

938
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: Parker is really annoy and concept to actually pin down. Um.

939
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: But basically speaking, it's movement with purpose. You are somewhere,

940
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,919
Speaker 1: you want to get somewhere, and you're trying to find

941
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: the best way of doing that. When we're training, we

942
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: kind of focus on efficiency, safety, speed, and the reason

943
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: behind the movement. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's thinking of

944
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: it more as like the movement with purpose or like

945
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: like intentional movement, Um, is much better than thinking of

946
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: it's like like parkour isn't like flips like flips and

947
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff is more of what we call

948
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: like UM free running. It's it's more of like a

949
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:42,879
Speaker 1: creative expression. It's more of like a kind of kind

950
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 1: of like a sport, whereas like Parker is more usually

951
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: I mean, there's always gonna people that are going to

952
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: fight you on this in the park, in the Parker community,

953
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: but it's generally Parker is kind of more based on utility.

954
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: So like last last summer at the protests, I I

955
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 1: used you know, Parker in a lot of different ways,

956
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: both to like you know, get somewhere specifically or parkor

957
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 1: is grade is like a recovery tool, like if you

958
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 1: get pushed over by cops. UM, park Work would be

959
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: very useful for like getting up very fast. You know.

960
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: It's like all that kind of more practical side of things.

961
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: And I've used Parker you know before I was doing

962
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: filming at different kind of activism related type things. It's

963
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: just it's a super useful skill to have UM And

964
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: today I wanted to talk talk a bit about like

965
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: Parker's practical application in you know, conflict ish scenarios, but

966
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: also wanted to touch on stealth um as you know,

967
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: sometimes you don't need Parker and if you can avoid

968
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: a scenario where you have to use it would be

969
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: kind of great. So I've asked Rick to kind of

970
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 1: prepare a few things on stealth, which then we'll kind of,

971
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 1: you know, bounce off each other and talk kind of

972
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: a general discussion of Parker and stealth in general and

973
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 1: how it relates to kind of conflict scenarios. Um. So, Rick,

974
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,760
Speaker 1: where would you like to start for you know, stealth overview? Well,

975
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:04,280
Speaker 1: in conflict with other people, there's like three different levels

976
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: of the conflict um and all of these get trained

977
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: in different places. Usually there's the actual um like conflict.

978
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: The combat, which is more of a martial arts or

979
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: gun training or weapon training of any kind as well,

980
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: compares you for that Beneath that is the Parker level,

981
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: where you can avoid getting into the conflict in the

982
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: first place. If you can get away from the situation, Yeah,

983
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: if you're more of an arm's length of way, then

984
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: you can create more distance between you and someone it's

985
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: trying to hurt you. And in nine percent of conflict situations,

986
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: that's going to be a better self defense option than

987
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: literally any weapon you could carry. Just getting the hell

988
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: away is always the preferred. There's there's there's a really

989
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 1: good comic. Um, it's it's like it's it's like a

990
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: it's like a like like a comedy comic of like

991
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: someone someone trying to get into like a knife fight

992
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: and you're just like, nope, I'm running away because there's

993
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,439
Speaker 1: no there's no winner in a knife fight. The only

994
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: way to win a knife fight is to be oh

995
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: far away from someone with a knife. Yeah, I mean

996
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: literally Again, the only justified situation I can think of

997
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: too physically getting into a knife fight is like what

998
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: happened on the Portland Max train when someone else can't

999
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: get away. Yeah, you're still gonna stick to them. And

1000
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: the two guys who did that died. They died. Yeah yeah, um,

1001
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: not that they did the wrong thing. They did the

1002
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: only thing they could. But that's what a knife fight is.

1003
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's being able to get the funk away

1004
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: is the best self defense. Yeah. I carry weapons with

1005
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: me wherever I go, but I don't want to ever

1006
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: use them. My first response is always going to be

1007
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: look for an escape path. Yeah yeah, yeah. A weapon

1008
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 1: is only for if you can't get away or if

1009
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: someone else can't get away. So pretty much like yeah, well, yeah,

1010
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: I've always been interested because again I've watched you know,

1011
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 1: Garrison hop Away from Cops over ps is where I

1012
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: had to like, you know, fall over the fence essentially

1013
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: because I'm not nearly as good. I'm someone who exercises,

1014
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: But like number one, is it even possible to like

1015
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 1: learn this stuff without fucking your thirty three year old

1016
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: body up a bunch in the process. That's a lot

1017
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: of scared of is like over sixty, and he's good,

1018
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: very good. He's actually like one of my high intermediate,

1019
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: low advanced students, honestly, and he started when he was

1020
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: like fifty. How do you uh, I mean, like it

1021
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: it just seems like injury, I guess because my my

1022
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: my stereotypical view of it is like a bunch of

1023
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: jumping up on buildings and leaping over stuff like, um,

1024
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: it seems like injuries would be a pretty common fact. Um. So,

1025
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: I guess that's kind of like always been my first

1026
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 1: concern there, like how do you how do you how

1027
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: do you train people to do this stuff with a

1028
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: minimum of risk? Well, that's kind of always the focus

1029
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: of my teaching. There certainly are other instructors out there,

1030
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: like the guy who taught me Parker was Basically, this

1031
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: is a con vault. This is what it looks like.

1032
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: Do it my training, Like, I sucked at Parker when

1033
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: I started, So my teaching method has been coming at

1034
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 1: this as a sort of Okay, I'm gonna try to

1035
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,439
Speaker 1: break this down into as many pieces as I can,

1036
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: and I'm going to try to keep you completely safe. Um,

1037
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: Bumps and bruises do happen when you're training Parker. That's

1038
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 1: just unavoidable. It's learning how to do walking but fancy.

1039
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: So you get bruised when you're learning how to walk.

1040
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: You get bruised when you're learning every technique in Parker.

1041
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: But I've been doing it for fourteen years now and

1042
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: I've never broken any of my bones. If you do

1043
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: it right, you should be able to stay safe when

1044
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: training you. Definitely, if you can get someone who's more experienced,

1045
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 1: getting them to break down steps for you was very useful,

1046
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: whether that be like a park Ord gym in your

1047
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: area or just like a friend that that's that's been

1048
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 1: that's been messing around. Trying to like train with somebody

1049
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: is probably one of the most important things, um, is

1050
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 1: to have someone else there both if you like want

1051
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: like get hurt, you need help, but to to kind

1052
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 1: of prevent to help prevent that from even happening in

1053
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: the first place, because there's a lot of like very

1054
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 1: simple moves that can be introduced in very safe environments.

1055
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: I've I've I've been wanting to get Roberts down to

1056
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: the gym for like over a year now just to

1057
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 1: go over like a few basic kind of stuff that's

1058
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 1: just really really useful, pretty and like pretty easy. Like

1059
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: we're not we're not jumping to like you know, doing

1060
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: like roof topping right where we're like jumping from one

1061
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: roof to another. We're starting by we're starting by being like,

1062
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: here's like a concrete barricade, what's the safest way of

1063
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 1: getting over this if you're under pressure? Right? It's it's

1064
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: it's it's that kind of stuff that's specifically useful and

1065
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: like conflict scenarios, right, because like when we're when we're

1066
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 1: facing in a riot line, I'm not gonna be doing

1067
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: like flips and cart wheels to like get over fences.

1068
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be like, what's the safest, fastest way

1069
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 1: I can get over this thing? Well, making sure I'm

1070
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: not going to get like shot with the rubber bullet, Right,

1071
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 1: that's kind of it's it's it's it's it's very different

1072
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 1: from like what you see on YouTube, right, YouTube's very

1073
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 1: like showy people are like trying to like basically when

1074
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,479
Speaker 1: what you see on YouTube is people are doing people

1075
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 1: are doing like a choreographic performance, whereas Parker from a

1076
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: utility standpoint is very different from what you see online. Yeah,

1077
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 1: and that's one of the things that we try to

1078
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: train to when we're training Parkre is we just give

1079
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 1: ourselves an environment and say, okay, I'm going now, yeah,

1080
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: and like do it over and over again and try

1081
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 1: to figure out what's the best way of getting over

1082
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: this specific path. Right, if you can like make a

1083
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: designed path, be like, you know, even doing this at

1084
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: like a playground or like any any place with like logs,

1085
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, you can do Parker in the forest and stuff,

1086
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: be like, I'm just like setting this path and experiment

1087
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: with how many ways can I move through this kind

1088
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: of set set of obstacles, um, And you can kind

1089
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: of figure out Parker on your own on in in

1090
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,439
Speaker 1: in that kind of way, because because your body knows

1091
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 1: what it's gonna do, Like, you know, people have been

1092
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 1: moving like this for thousands and thousands of years. It's

1093
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: only in the past few hundred years we've like kind

1094
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 1: of lost this ability, or it's like become it's become

1095
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: less necessary. So like we we know how to interact

1096
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 1: with our environment in creative ways, Like we we we

1097
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 1: know how to do this, but it's just that, you know,

1098
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: we the past, the past few centuries, it's been less important.

1099
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 1: And I think Parker is really fun because you can

1100
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: kind of rediscover interacting with your environment in these you know,

1101
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: kind of more wild ways. It's something that we all

1102
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:31,439
Speaker 1: do as children, just like evolutionarily for some reason, as

1103
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 1: children we do this as play. We climb trees and

1104
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: we try to go over fences. It's just that something

1105
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 1: in our society has made a shift so that when

1106
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: we become adults, it's suddenly not acceptable for us to

1107
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 1: do this anymore. Yeah, I mean, I can remember when

1108
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 1: I was a little kid growing up on the farm.

1109
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 1: We had a bullpen because we kept the bowl away

1110
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: from the cows, and my my cousin and I would

1111
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 1: hop over the fence and we would throw stuff at

1112
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 1: the bowl, and then when it started to charge, we

1113
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 1: would hop back over the fence. Like I mean, Obviously

1114
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: I'd never do that today because it's mean to throw

1115
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 1: things at a bowl I was six. But also I

1116
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: couldn't physically hop over the fence that way today. But

1117
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm guessing within like, I don't know, even just like

1118
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: a few hours of practice, you could figure out a

1119
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: lot of ways together. I could be back to fucking

1120
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 1: with bowls. Is what exactly? You don't need to kiss

1121
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 1: kiss the bull fucking goodbye? You can? We can? We

1122
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,479
Speaker 1: can go back to this. We could go I could,

1123
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: I could return to tradition. Yes, exactly. What is the

1124
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: degree of this that can be done without? Again, like

1125
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: you know we have we have a wide variety of

1126
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 1: income levels that listen to this show? Um, what is

1127
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 1: the degree this can be done without like paying for training?

1128
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: You know that? Like, like, how is it even possible

1129
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: to like start on this kind of thing if you're

1130
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:48,920
Speaker 1: in reasonable shape, you know, on your own, without paying someone,

1131
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: Because that that seems like a recipe for breaking something

1132
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 1: to me, But again, I don't know. I don't know.

1133
01:04:54,720 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 1: Ship It is very much about knowing yourself and knowing

1134
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 1: what you're ready for. Uh, this was something I mean

1135
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 1: I say that I never broke a bone in my training,

1136
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 1: But there were a couple of times I started pushing

1137
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 1: myself further than I should have, and it would have

1138
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 1: been really good to have someone there to say, Hey,

1139
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 1: you probably not ready for this yet. Let's break this

1140
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 1: down into little pieces. But if you come at it

1141
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: methodically and you don't endanger yourself too much. What I

1142
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 1: started out with in Parker is I would just put

1143
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: a piece of tape on the ground and another piece

1144
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 1: of tape and jump from one piece of tape to

1145
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: the other. And went out to parking lots and jumped

1146
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 1: from just an arbitrary pebble to the curb on the

1147
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 1: parking lot and found some just railings and learned how

1148
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: to go over those railings safely, and gradually just started

1149
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: building up to higher and higher things. You always want

1150
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 1: to start at ground level when you're training Parkers. Don't

1151
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: go up to high places for your first thing. Yeah.

1152
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: I think there there's a lot of like instructional videos

1153
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: on YouTube too that that are not just like showing off.

1154
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 1: It's actually people trying to like break down movements. So

1155
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: you can like get find a specific video and be like, Okay,

1156
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 1: I want to, you know, bring this on my phone,

1157
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: go out into like a playground a parking lot, like

1158
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: like a wooded area and be like, okay, this is

1159
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 1: this is this one vault. I don't watch the video

1160
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:24,479
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna try to replicate it myself. That's really

1161
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 1: the the kind of easiest, cheapest way to kind of

1162
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 1: break that down without having to you know, pay someone

1163
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 1: tons of money. Um. You know, if parker classes aren't

1164
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 1: the most expensive thing. Um, so that's if if you

1165
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 1: do have a little bit of disposable income. I I

1166
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: like park work classes. I did them for a long time,

1167
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: but there was a certain point actually that like I

1168
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: couldn't afford classes anymore. And luckily I've been doing park

1169
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 1: wore enough at that point that I was able to

1170
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 1: become an assistant instructor, which means I've got like a

1171
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 1: free I got like a free membership in exchange for

1172
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: you know, helping out in classes, like a few hours

1173
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 1: a week. So that's what that's what I did for

1174
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 1: years when I couldn't afford classes, is it's just helps

1175
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 1: help teach, which I mean eventually I got leveled up

1176
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 1: to being like a full time instructor. Um. So that

1177
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: is kind of the other way is you know, once

1178
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 1: you get enough stuff, there are you know, there's there's

1179
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: ways canna like make friends who know more Parker than you.

1180
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 1: You can do you know, outdoor training with them, which

1181
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 1: can be free. Um, but if you if you do

1182
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 1: really want like a like a gym environment, there is

1183
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 1: there's ways of making classes not the most expensive thing.

1184
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 1: There's online groups that schedule meetups every now and then,

1185
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 1: So if you can find an online group in your area,

1186
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:38,439
Speaker 1: you can go to one of their meetups and ask

1187
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: for advice. Not everyone's going to give the best advice.

1188
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 1: There are some people in the park or community who

1189
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 1: are always pushing their boundaries. They'll be in a cast

1190
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 1: half of the time. Um, the more advanced people, yeah,

1191
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 1: they generally, so always take advice with a grain of salt.

1192
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 1: Not everyone knows every rething, and no one knows your

1193
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: body as well as you do. So you've got to

1194
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 1: keep yourself safe above everything else. You can't get better

1195
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 1: at park Or if you break both of your legs. Yeah,

1196
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 1: that's always So a couple of questions here. Number one

1197
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 1: would be obviously, I don't expect you know, like somebody's

1198
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 1: in Michigan or whatever. I don't expect you to know

1199
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 1: the best parkour instructor there. But if somebody is looking

1200
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 1: at going the gym route, are there kind of some

1201
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 1: hard and fast rules for determining whether or not these

1202
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: folks know what they're doing? Like, is there any kind

1203
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 1: of advice you have in terms of picking a gym

1204
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: or is it just kind of like go into Google

1205
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:38,799
Speaker 1: Maps and see see where the parkour will be. That's

1206
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: a little bit tough because especially since COVID, there's not

1207
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 1: many options for park or gins out here. Um, my

1208
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: best advice would be go and if they let you

1209
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: just watch a class and see what's going on. Um,

1210
01:08:54,360 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: see how many people have casts? Yeah, yeah, back when

1211
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: I was learning parkour originally we would have basically two

1212
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:09,719
Speaker 1: people in a cast all the time, just in the class. Yeah,

1213
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 1: I didn't know that the guy that I was trying

1214
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 1: to keep up with the whole times than three stints

1215
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: in a cast. Yeah, just funny because I've never got

1216
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 1: a serious injury ever. I was. I was always more

1217
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 1: careful in my training, but like, the most I've gotten

1218
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,679
Speaker 1: is like is like you know, like bruises and stuff.

1219
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 1: I've I've I've and I got to a relatively high

1220
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 1: level of parker like if years ago only took classes

1221
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: from me but was always on breaking things down and

1222
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: making them accessible and safe. True. True, yeah, yeah, but

1223
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 1: there is there's definitely people who are more who are

1224
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,639
Speaker 1: more carefree with their body and okay with hurting themselves

1225
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 1: to do something cool. Yeah, and some people will get

1226
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 1: away with that. So for folks who are there don't

1227
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 1: have the financial means to go to a gym where

1228
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: there's just nothing in their area, because as you said,

1229
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: there's a play. Um, if people are gonna you've given

1230
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 1: some advice and like how to start trying yourself. Are

1231
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 1: there any specific online resources you would recommend to folks

1232
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 1: who are you know, looking to get on unless on

1233
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: their own dip their toes in um, you know, YouTube

1234
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 1: channels or or people who you know do good like

1235
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,160
Speaker 1: writing breakdowns, anything that you would, uh, you would push

1236
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: folks towards. I haven't been up to date on it recently. UM.

1237
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: A lot of the videos out there are garbage. UM.

1238
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 1: What I recommend you look for is you look for,

1239
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,640
Speaker 1: first of all, explanation. UM. Second of all, if you

1240
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: can find videos of someone who's training something and they

1241
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,599
Speaker 1: failed to do the move that they're trying to do correctly,

1242
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 1: and they fail to do the move that they're trying

1243
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 1: to do correctly. They fail and fail and fail and

1244
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 1: fail and then succeed. M hm. That's an honest video.

1245
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 1: That's one that I would listen to more because they

1246
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:58,000
Speaker 1: understand the process. The other videos out there are sort

1247
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: of greatest hits compilation and you don't get to see

1248
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 1: the whole process that goes into that. So I don't

1249
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 1: have a sense. I don't have any specific person or

1250
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 1: channel to recommend, but when you're going out there and

1251
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 1: looking for resources, just make sure that the person is

1252
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 1: being some understanding into the fact that this is the

1253
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 1: process of training and it's not just this is how

1254
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 1: it's done. Do it now, you can do it. There

1255
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 1: is there is a there is like a Parkore wiki

1256
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 1: which was like you know Parkore dot fandom dot com

1257
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: that you can you can find like just like lists

1258
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 1: of all of the moves and they give you very

1259
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: like simple explanations of them and they and they link

1260
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 1: to some videos um and generally like if if you

1261
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 1: just want to learn more about it, then that's then

1262
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 1: that can be a good resource. Just so you're familiar

1263
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 1: with all the different types of movement. But yeah, like

1264
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:49,639
Speaker 1: make sure you take every video with a grain of salt,

1265
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 1: and you know, watch other watch other people's explanations and

1266
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:53,559
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, I kind of like the way this

1267
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 1: person describes it versus this person, because you know, everyone

1268
01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 1: teaches differently. Everyone teaches for kind of you know, different

1269
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 1: differently body types for different like you know, body like

1270
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:05,680
Speaker 1: performance models. Um. So you know, because you can't just

1271
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 1: apply the same thing to everyone because everyone's everyone is different.

1272
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 1: But you know, the parkore WICKI is a decent resource. Um.

1273
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,639
Speaker 1: And then you know there's YouTube is especially since since

1274
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 1: the two thousands, there's been a plethora of content, most

1275
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 1: of most of it bad, but you know there's lots

1276
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 1: to at least look for. Al Right, Um, anything else

1277
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 1: you wanted to get into, Yeah, I wanted to kind

1278
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:32,120
Speaker 1: of branch off of like the parkour discussion into kind

1279
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 1: of like, uh, the more kind of stealth based discussion

1280
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:38,640
Speaker 1: of of kind of being aware of your presence in

1281
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 1: relation to other people and recond I know you were

1282
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 1: talking about like the different levels of stealth. So you've

1283
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: got the combat training which prevents you from getting killed

1284
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 1: or captured in uh, the worst of scenarios, and then

1285
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:57,879
Speaker 1: we have our core that you can use to prevent

1286
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 1: the combat in the first place, and stealth is what

1287
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 1: you use to prevent the chase from happening in the

1288
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 1: first place. It's kind of a tree of I really

1289
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 1: don't want to have to fight someone, so I'm going

1290
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 1: to run away instead. I really don't want to have

1291
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 1: to run away from someone, so I'm just going to

1292
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 1: try and not to be noticed by them instead. And

1293
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: that's been a lot of what my training in Parker

1294
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:30,479
Speaker 1: has been focused around, is just staying de escalated as

1295
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 1: possible with everything. Yeah, because we me and Rick have

1296
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:39,839
Speaker 1: focused most of our Parker training on on stealth UM

1297
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 1: as opposed to being you know, super strong or super

1298
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 1: powerful UM. And stealth always a really hard concept to

1299
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 1: talk about because it's kind of like nebulous in nature,

1300
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: because stealth isn't being invisible, right, It's it's not it's

1301
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 1: not being totally unnoticed. It's want It's it's it's wanting

1302
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:03,480
Speaker 1: to craft the way you're seen in a specific way. Yeah. Um,

1303
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 1: it's always been very difficult for me to explain what

1304
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 1: stealth is. The most recent definition that I've given for

1305
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:15,519
Speaker 1: it is that's everything that you do, everything that you

1306
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 1: are gives off a certain amount of noise and a

1307
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 1: certain type of noise. So the way that you dress.

1308
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 1: You can dress in a very loud way with a

1309
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:33,719
Speaker 1: hive is vest day glow, colors, um, something that makes

1310
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 1: you really easy to notice. But if you're in the

1311
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:41,839
Speaker 1: right environment, that might be the right type of noise

1312
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 1: to be making to blend into a crowd. Like a

1313
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 1: three piece suit is also a very loud outfit to wear,

1314
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 1: But if you're on the streets of New York, that's normal.

1315
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 1: If you come into a park origin wearing a three

1316
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 1: piece suit, it's very abnormal. So that's not the right

1317
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 1: type of noise if you're trying to blend in there. Yeah,

1318
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:06,760
Speaker 1: a lot of it's about kind of constructing the way

1319
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:09,679
Speaker 1: people see you based on what environment you're in and

1320
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 1: who you're trying to remain undetected from, right, because I

1321
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 1: mean they were like not even necessarily undetected, but just

1322
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 1: detected in a specific way. Because people eyes. People's eyes

1323
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 1: can glaze over a lot of a lot of stuff.

1324
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 1: If if just that the right puzzle pieces are put

1325
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 1: into their brain, that it's like nothing nothing to see here.

1326
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 1: Every everything is normal. Nothing not nothing. To be alerted, right,

1327
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,000
Speaker 1: because what you're trying to do is prevent someone from

1328
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,640
Speaker 1: being like alerted to your presence. That is kind of

1329
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:40,720
Speaker 1: the main thing. So you can be within someone's sitelines,

1330
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:43,799
Speaker 1: but the way that you're dressed, the way that you're moving,

1331
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 1: the way that you hold yourself fails to get their attention.

1332
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 1: They're subconscious registers that you're there, but it doesn't register

1333
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 1: consciously to them that you're there. It's the gray Man

1334
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 1: stuff that we were talking about with Chelsea, which again

1335
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 1: there's very frustrating chetty dimension to it. But the the

1336
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:04,519
Speaker 1: original idea, before it got taken over as an entire

1337
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 1: fashion aesthetic, was if you're prepared, if you're if you're

1338
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 1: going to make yourself prepared for badge situations, you don't

1339
01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 1: want to wear a bunch of tactical gear. You don't

1340
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,160
Speaker 1: want to be dressed in like five combat pants. You

1341
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:19,559
Speaker 1: don't want to be carrying like military backpacks and like

1342
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:23,599
Speaker 1: the cargo pants with the you know, clearly bulging with weaponry.

1343
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:25,600
Speaker 1: You don't want to be open carrying a gun. You

1344
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:29,680
Speaker 1: want to be dressed, however, is going to least to

1345
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,000
Speaker 1: least set you apart from the crowd. And that is,

1346
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 1: as you said, got a vary. No, it's not a

1347
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 1: matter of like wearing all gray or wearing all black. Um,

1348
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 1: you're in downtown Salt Lake City, you know, a black

1349
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 1: hoodie and jeans might stand out more than it does

1350
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 1: if you're in downtown San Francisco, in which case you're

1351
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 1: gonna look like a million other people. I mean, And generally,

1352
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: if you're trying to avoid being seen, I recommend against

1353
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:56,439
Speaker 1: wearing black basically at all times, especially if you're trying

1354
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:59,559
Speaker 1: to remain like actually invisible at night. You don't want

1355
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 1: to wear black because black is usually too dark. Um,

1356
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 1: you you want to wear like darker blues or darker greens. Um. Yeah,

1357
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 1: generally black is should be avoided. Um. Of course, like

1358
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,599
Speaker 1: black block is a whole separate thing because black block

1359
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 1: are trying to remain anonymous within a crowd context. But

1360
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 1: you know, in a lot of cases, you don't want

1361
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:19,680
Speaker 1: to be in black block at protests, or you want

1362
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:21,720
Speaker 1: to be able to switch from black block to what

1363
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:24,559
Speaker 1: we call like normy block very quickly. So like you know,

1364
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:28,560
Speaker 1: quick changes are another kind of form of stealth um

1365
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 1: that you can like practice like you can you can

1366
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:32,600
Speaker 1: just practice doing quick changes like in your apartment, be

1367
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 1: like how fast can I get from this outfit to

1368
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:37,559
Speaker 1: this outfit? Um in like a small space, right you can?

1369
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:39,760
Speaker 1: You can you can BacT to these even like outside

1370
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 1: but specifically for like black block, changing both in and

1371
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:45,959
Speaker 1: out of is a skill that needs to be practiced. Um.

1372
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:47,960
Speaker 1: But overall, I think like there's a lot of other

1373
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 1: ways of being anonymous at a protest besides actually black block, Like,

1374
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 1: there's a lot of other kind of methods Like black

1375
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 1: blocks are very specific tactic, but it's not a tactic

1376
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 1: that needs to get applied all the time. It's it's

1377
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 1: it's very's you should be mindful that it has a

1378
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 1: lot of downsides. Um. And based on what you're trying

1379
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:04,960
Speaker 1: to do, there's a lot of other ways to dress

1380
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:09,519
Speaker 1: that would maybe be better. Um. Yeah, yeah, it's this

1381
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: um you know, it's a little bit like angles of

1382
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 1: it are kind of what we talked about even in

1383
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 1: like the last week when we were talking about like storing,

1384
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:19,719
Speaker 1: you know, food and canning food and like the value

1385
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: of paying attention to the cycle of like what is

1386
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,960
Speaker 1: in stock and what is not stocked in stock during

1387
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 1: what seasons. It's kind of the same thing at the

1388
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 1: value of paying attention to how people dress and how

1389
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:32,280
Speaker 1: people move and like, what is a normal way to

1390
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:34,680
Speaker 1: move about and wherever you live as opposed to like

1391
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 1: what stands out like it, there's a lot of value

1392
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 1: and a lot of self defense value and just kind

1393
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 1: of paying attention to people wherever you live and getting

1394
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 1: an eye for what will stand out and what won't

1395
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 1: stand out. If you're if you, if you are someone

1396
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:50,479
Speaker 1: for whom being able to blend in is something you

1397
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: see value in. You know, Yeah, Rick, did do you

1398
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 1: do you have any things kind of on that side

1399
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:58,799
Speaker 1: of things or any like exercises people can do to

1400
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 1: improve their own personal stealth. Yeah, it's very very situational.

1401
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 1: You have to sort of study many different environments. The

1402
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:10,280
Speaker 1: biggest advice that I give people for stealth all the

1403
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:15,080
Speaker 1: time is, um, pay attention. You have to pay attention

1404
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:19,439
Speaker 1: to the smallest details when I'm even just moving around

1405
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:23,600
Speaker 1: my house, like the bathroom door lock. Um, when you

1406
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:26,080
Speaker 1: twist the lock, the button pops out and makes a

1407
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:30,559
Speaker 1: huge noise. I actually place my thumb over it and

1408
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,200
Speaker 1: deaden the sound as I'm doing it, and I pay

1409
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 1: attention to the kind of noise that I make in

1410
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:39,879
Speaker 1: every situation and try to minimize that as much as possible.

1411
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 1: I pay attention to which parts of my house make

1412
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:46,320
Speaker 1: noise when you step on them and avoid those places.

1413
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 1: Um I UM. Basically, just pay attention to every noise

1414
01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:56,920
Speaker 1: that my body makes, that my environment makes as I'm

1415
01:19:56,920 --> 01:20:00,400
Speaker 1: moving through it. Also, you have to pay at tension

1416
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:04,479
Speaker 1: and study other people in different environments. You can go

1417
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 1: to a grocery store and watch the body language of

1418
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:12,000
Speaker 1: the moms who are shopping with their kids, so that

1419
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 1: the people that normally you wouldn't pay attention to pay

1420
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 1: attention to them because they're doing a good job of

1421
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:22,000
Speaker 1: blending in if you're not normally paying attention to them,

1422
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:25,080
Speaker 1: and then try to start mimicking their body language. What

1423
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:27,919
Speaker 1: I'll do when I go out is i don't directly

1424
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 1: look at anyone, but I'm paying attention to if I'm

1425
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 1: being paid attention to give myself that own that conscious

1426
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:39,800
Speaker 1: feedback and say, hey, I wasn't all that stealthy this time,

1427
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:43,840
Speaker 1: I kind of stuck out. Yeah, practicing your peripheral vision

1428
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 1: is definitely useful for that. I mean in terms of exercises. Yeah,

1429
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:48,960
Speaker 1: just just go into like parks, or the places where

1430
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people and like people watching and

1431
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 1: trying to figure out who does your eyes glaze over

1432
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:55,040
Speaker 1: the most and what what are they doing to cause that.

1433
01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:56,880
Speaker 1: I think one one thing that me and Rick have

1434
01:20:56,920 --> 01:21:00,680
Speaker 1: talked about before is like every part of your body

1435
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:05,400
Speaker 1: points somewhere, like whether that be your eyes, your nose,

1436
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:09,400
Speaker 1: your chin, your arms, your hips, your chest, your hands,

1437
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:12,120
Speaker 1: all of these things point in a direction. And if

1438
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:14,920
Speaker 1: you can figure out which direction you can point them

1439
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 1: to make people pay less attention to you. That's kind

1440
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:19,600
Speaker 1: of one of the easier models understanding how to like

1441
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:22,840
Speaker 1: walk and move in a stealthy manner that I think

1442
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:25,200
Speaker 1: like out of all the different ways of thinking about

1443
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 1: and I think that's the way that's helped me the most.

1444
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:30,360
Speaker 1: Um it's being like, you know, if if my head

1445
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:33,080
Speaker 1: is pointed up and my nose is pointed out and

1446
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 1: I'm moving my arms around a lot, that's people are

1447
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 1: gonna like like look at me more. You know, people

1448
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 1: if if if if eye contact is made, that is

1449
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 1: like a failure. So you know, if your head's pointed down,

1450
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 1: your arms are more slouched, they kind of move with

1451
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 1: your body. But that's not super exaggerated and it's not

1452
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 1: super stiff. These are different kind of ways of pointing

1453
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 1: your body to make you seem more like UM introspective

1454
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 1: UM and less external. Also walking around with UM ear

1455
01:21:56,400 --> 01:22:00,840
Speaker 1: plugs or like like like uh earbuds your owns. Those

1456
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:03,360
Speaker 1: are ways people will pay attention to class to you

1457
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:05,880
Speaker 1: look at your smartphone. Yeah, one of the back when

1458
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:08,080
Speaker 1: we by, back when I took classes with you and

1459
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:10,000
Speaker 1: taught classes, we we would we would we would have

1460
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:13,559
Speaker 1: like a weekly a weekly games class um where we'd

1461
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:16,120
Speaker 1: have different you know games and related to Parkore and

1462
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, stealth would always kind of be something I

1463
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 1: would try to do. And you could survive so long

1464
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 1: in stealth games by just like looking like pretending that

1465
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 1: you're looking at your phone, like not even actually doing it.

1466
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:29,559
Speaker 1: Just like walking in like a circle around like walking

1467
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:31,360
Speaker 1: in a circle around the arena as people are trying

1468
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 1: to like tag and stuff. And if you can just

1469
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:35,280
Speaker 1: like walk with your head down kind of slowly, you

1470
01:22:35,320 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 1: can strive a ridiculously long time because people are looking

1471
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:40,080
Speaker 1: for people that are like running around and being like

1472
01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:44,160
Speaker 1: and being super energy energetic, and if you're not, people

1473
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 1: aren't detecting you as much Another thing to practice would

1474
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:50,120
Speaker 1: be uh, quiet walking, which is we kind of mentioned before.

1475
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 1: It's like learning how to move your foot and interact

1476
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:56,200
Speaker 1: with different surfaces that makes your walking basically silent, which

1477
01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:58,599
Speaker 1: is very fun because you can use this to scare

1478
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:01,000
Speaker 1: your friends. It's it's, it's it's it's very exciting to

1479
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:03,599
Speaker 1: to to to to like to try to figure out

1480
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:05,800
Speaker 1: what's what's ways I can hide in my friend's house

1481
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 1: to like jump scare them, or like kind of how

1482
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 1: close can I get behind someone with with with without

1483
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 1: them noticing that. There'd be times I can just like

1484
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 1: walk up behind someone and wait, like I kid you,

1485
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 1: not like ten minutes before they noticed I was there.

1486
01:23:16,439 --> 01:23:20,000
Speaker 1: It's hilarious. UM. I feel even better when I can

1487
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:23,280
Speaker 1: do that to their pets because generally the animals are

1488
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:25,800
Speaker 1: paying more attention to everything. So if you can successfully

1489
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 1: sneak up on someone's cat, you're doing it right. Yeah.

1490
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:32,960
Speaker 1: Oh man, I do really enjoy stealth, and I'll be

1491
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 1: happy to practice it more regularly once the plug is over. Um.

1492
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:40,080
Speaker 1: If it's over um. Any other kind of stealth notes

1493
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:42,240
Speaker 1: that you would want to kind of bring up for

1494
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:44,479
Speaker 1: if someone is trying to like get into stealth and

1495
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 1: start to start thinking about detection, you know, more often

1496
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 1: in their everyday life. It's very important that you engage

1497
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:56,639
Speaker 1: in indirect observations. Yeah up. You you were talking about

1498
01:23:56,720 --> 01:23:59,760
Speaker 1: how everything points and one of the things that we

1499
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:04,320
Speaker 1: subconsciously noticed the most is people's eyes were kind of

1500
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:09,440
Speaker 1: programmed to notice eyes. So if you're looking directly at someone,

1501
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:13,639
Speaker 1: they're probably gonna notice that you've noticed them. But if

1502
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:17,559
Speaker 1: you're using your peripheral vision, or if instead of watching them,

1503
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,719
Speaker 1: you're watching a reflection of them, or if you're watching

1504
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:24,599
Speaker 1: their shadow um, or you're not even looking in their

1505
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:28,400
Speaker 1: direction instead you're tracking them by sound, it makes it

1506
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 1: so that you have a big one up on everyone

1507
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:35,679
Speaker 1: around you. Yeah, in indirect observations one of the best

1508
01:24:35,680 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 1: tools that you can use, UM if you get really

1509
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 1: clever at it. Now this this, this, this is harder

1510
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 1: because it actually if if you if you if you

1511
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:45,640
Speaker 1: do this wrong, people who people, people will pay more

1512
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:48,280
Speaker 1: attention to you. But you can get good at it

1513
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:51,760
Speaker 1: to start using like your phone camera or even just

1514
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 1: your phone screen because like your black phone screen is pretty,

1515
01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 1: is pretty, is pretty reflective in nature, so you can

1516
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 1: use this as like an error. UM but like, yeah,

1517
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:04,960
Speaker 1: using like phone cameras and phone screens as a reflective

1518
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:07,439
Speaker 1: surface or or just as like a camera can be

1519
01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 1: used in indirect observation. But you do have to be

1520
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:13,040
Speaker 1: careful because if if if it looks like you're filming somebody,

1521
01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:15,120
Speaker 1: they're gonna pay so much more attension to you. So yeah,

1522
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 1: you have, you have. You have to be very careful

1523
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 1: with this method, but it is possible. This is how

1524
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 1: I kind of this is how I um, this is

1525
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 1: how it's like documented different like um not sees at rallies.

1526
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:26,920
Speaker 1: If I don't want to be like super obvious that

1527
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:28,680
Speaker 1: that I'm taking a picture of them, there's ways of

1528
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:30,640
Speaker 1: doing indirect observation with my phone that I can like

1529
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:33,400
Speaker 1: get pictures of them from certain angles to be like okay,

1530
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:35,519
Speaker 1: so now now I can put you. I can add

1531
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 1: you to my to my folder of nazis that have

1532
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:41,040
Speaker 1: showed up um that method. You have to be super

1533
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 1: careful if you're surrounded by potentially hostile people. Anyone who's

1534
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:49,880
Speaker 1: behind you is going to see that your phone camera

1535
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 1: is on. So it's something that you only want to

1536
01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:56,479
Speaker 1: use if people are on one side of you, or

1537
01:25:56,520 --> 01:25:58,639
Speaker 1: you know, you keep you you you use your body

1538
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:02,479
Speaker 1: as a shield for certain for certain like angles be

1539
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:07,519
Speaker 1: tricky for hoodie and uh increase your odds of success

1540
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 1: with that. But but but most often I would recommend

1541
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 1: against this method, especially if you're just starting out, because

1542
01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:14,280
Speaker 1: it is it is a lot more risky. Um. But

1543
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:16,840
Speaker 1: when it does work, it can come in very handy.

1544
01:26:17,439 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 1: But but more often than not, using using like reflections

1545
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:23,759
Speaker 1: like windows, mirrors, you know, like a car, windows, puddles

1546
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 1: on the ground, shadows, sound, all of these different methods

1547
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:30,519
Speaker 1: of observing someone without looking directly at them are generally

1548
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:34,320
Speaker 1: much much safer um and they can be very useful

1549
01:26:34,360 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 1: for for trying to track someone or just be aware

1550
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 1: of what they're looking at without looking directly at them. UM.

1551
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 1: Kind of more similar to like what I talked about

1552
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:47,800
Speaker 1: in like the fictional opening we did for stealth is

1553
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:51,599
Speaker 1: very dependent on what you know is trying to watch

1554
01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:54,360
Speaker 1: you write, like like how you need to be aware

1555
01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:57,080
Speaker 1: of the ways people are trying to detect you. Of

1556
01:26:57,120 --> 01:27:01,439
Speaker 1: course you're tracked back canine unit. It's very very different

1557
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:03,479
Speaker 1: than just being being yeah, than being like chased down

1558
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:08,000
Speaker 1: on foot um or you know, like security cameras. Of course,

1559
01:27:08,040 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 1: like online tracking which we're not we're not really getting

1560
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:12,519
Speaker 1: into today. But you know, like being aware of where

1561
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:16,320
Speaker 1: security cameras are mapped out, um can be can be

1562
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:19,000
Speaker 1: very useful. Learning to learning to figure out where they

1563
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:21,800
Speaker 1: are without looking directly at them can be useful. There's

1564
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:24,519
Speaker 1: a lot of cities have websites that like map out

1565
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:26,880
Speaker 1: where where all the cameras are. Um. I know there's

1566
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:29,559
Speaker 1: one from Portland that you can like map out all

1567
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:31,800
Speaker 1: of the cameras in downtown and then you can like

1568
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:35,519
Speaker 1: plan like a route through downtown that has no cameras

1569
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 1: watching right there. There's only there's only very few routes

1570
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 1: that that actually have that, but but they do exist. Um.

1571
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 1: So learning to move in ways that make cameras less

1572
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:49,559
Speaker 1: able to spot you, um, those that's definitely another kind

1573
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:52,280
Speaker 1: of method of learning about stealth and learning about like

1574
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:57,200
Speaker 1: how surveillance works. Looking directly at the camera, But that's

1575
01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 1: that's that's definitely useful. Which intention to where they are, yeah,

1576
01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:04,200
Speaker 1: which plays into which plays into indirect observation. Um. But

1577
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:06,880
Speaker 1: I mean this gets more tricky. We know when police

1578
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 1: are using like thermal drones. Uh, this is its whole whole,

1579
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:15,240
Speaker 1: whole other side of things that it's very hard too.

1580
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:18,680
Speaker 1: Sex side of thing is hard to combat. And it's yeah,

1581
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:20,519
Speaker 1: there will be a point in time in which it

1582
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:25,200
Speaker 1: becomes effectively impossible to the monitor for cameras. Yeah, there's

1583
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:27,679
Speaker 1: like there's there's like a hierarchy of worry because yeah,

1584
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:29,640
Speaker 1: if because if, like the n s A wants to

1585
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 1: find you, they will, but most often they're not, Like

1586
01:28:32,920 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 1: most often people are dealing with their local law enforcement unit.

1587
01:28:35,640 --> 01:28:38,120
Speaker 1: Most often people are not dealing with the FBI. Most

1588
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 1: people people usually aren't dealing with the FBI, CIA or

1589
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 1: n s A. If if they want to find you,

1590
01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:46,200
Speaker 1: they will. But if you can learn to only interact

1591
01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 1: with your surroundings in a way that would only concern

1592
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:51,360
Speaker 1: your local police department, that's much easier too. That's much

1593
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 1: easier to kind of combat against, um, because it's it's

1594
01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:57,479
Speaker 1: way easier to hide from you know, your local department

1595
01:28:57,479 --> 01:29:01,479
Speaker 1: than it is from the n s A. All right, Um,

1596
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:05,240
Speaker 1: anything else? I think that pretty much covers everything. Yeah,

1597
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:08,600
Speaker 1: I think that's a good that's a sode. It's a

1598
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:12,600
Speaker 1: cast that we have potted. Um all right, Um, we

1599
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:15,160
Speaker 1: got any any plugables here to plug at the end

1600
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:20,280
Speaker 1: before we before we roll out me. Yeah, you don't

1601
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:23,800
Speaker 1: find me. Don't don't find him. This is the most

1602
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:27,160
Speaker 1: visible you've ever been. Yeah, so is there any um,

1603
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:30,320
Speaker 1: I don't know a fundraiser charity for someone else that

1604
01:29:30,360 --> 01:29:36,120
Speaker 1: you want to highlight? Not currently? No, you are? You

1605
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:39,439
Speaker 1: do try to be uh you do, try to be

1606
01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:43,800
Speaker 1: a virtual ninja. All right, Well, I'll plug something. One

1607
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:47,160
Speaker 1: of our fans is putting together a graphic novel about

1608
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:51,240
Speaker 1: the famed anarchist militant of the Spanish Civil War. Win

1609
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:53,320
Speaker 1: even showed a d Ruty. So if you just go

1610
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:56,719
Speaker 1: to type d Ruty into Kickstarter, you'll find the graphic

1611
01:29:56,760 --> 01:30:01,160
Speaker 1: novel Kickstarter. Um, check it out. It's cool. Yeah, and

1612
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:03,760
Speaker 1: I guess other things. I'll close with his learned to

1613
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:08,520
Speaker 1: walk quietly, learn to observe, learn to observe your surroundings. Um,

1614
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:12,679
Speaker 1: keep these things, practice, practice, practice with other people. Don't don't.

1615
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 1: Don't do this alone. It's really useful to have stealth

1616
01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:18,839
Speaker 1: be a collaborative process, because stealth isn't Stealth isn't by itself,

1617
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:21,960
Speaker 1: isn't just about you. It's about you and your whole environment. Um,

1618
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:28,200
Speaker 1: collaborate with the CVS clerk. When you robbed the CVS stealthily.

1619
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:32,160
Speaker 1: That is that is a different podcast I'm working on.

1620
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 1: Is that How to Shop the Shoplifting Cast? I mean, yeah,

1621
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 1: that is something I will pitch very soon. Anyway, I've

1622
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:44,439
Speaker 1: had trouble getting sponsors for the Shoplifting podcast, I will

1623
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:47,080
Speaker 1: tell you that. And it's difficult. If you could actually

1624
01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:51,920
Speaker 1: get CVS to sponsor that big shoplifting, I mean, we

1625
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 1: are giving them a lot of free advertising if if

1626
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:57,519
Speaker 1: if it does if it does happen. Anyway, most people

1627
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 1: who shoplift also spend. That's true. That is one of

1628
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:03,880
Speaker 1: the best ways to shoplift is to buy other things.

1629
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:07,240
Speaker 1: In this story, I'm seeing I'm already giving out advice. Um, yeah,

1630
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:10,880
Speaker 1: that that is how I always shoplifted back when I shoplifted, Yeah,

1631
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:13,080
Speaker 1: back when I did that twenty years ago. That's what.

1632
01:31:13,320 --> 01:31:15,200
Speaker 1: That's how I did it as well. I feel like

1633
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:18,040
Speaker 1: if Sophie were here, she'd be trying to back pedal

1634
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:21,840
Speaker 1: right now and stop you guys. So if you support shoplifting,

1635
01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:26,720
Speaker 1: this is a very pro shoplifting podcast. Anyway, that's the podcast.

1636
01:31:36,680 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 1: You were out of town when the last cop left Seattle.

1637
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:43,080
Speaker 1: It had been unseasonably cool that week. The seventy degrees

1638
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:44,960
Speaker 1: of old and not the ven you had come to

1639
01:31:45,040 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 1: dread every summer. But you'd already promised you'd visit your

1640
01:31:48,280 --> 01:31:51,040
Speaker 1: family in Montana, and so when the riots started in

1641
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:53,960
Speaker 1: the National Guard open fire into the crowd, you watched

1642
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:57,000
Speaker 1: it on Twitter from your couch like everyone else. The

1643
01:31:57,040 --> 01:32:00,519
Speaker 1: Second Battle of Seattle, they were calling it. You wondered

1644
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:03,360
Speaker 1: briefly what the first one was. They've been fighting in

1645
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 1: Portland too, some kind of massacre in Oakland, and no

1646
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:09,440
Speaker 1: one was quite sure what was happening in that Appa Valley.

1647
01:32:09,640 --> 01:32:13,080
Speaker 1: Couldn't be anything good, you thought, But it was Seattle.

1648
01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:16,160
Speaker 1: Everyone was talking about. The mayor fled the city and

1649
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:18,759
Speaker 1: the helicopter when it became clear the police were losing.

1650
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 1: After that, the cops had simply broken retreated across the Cascades.

1651
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:26,280
Speaker 1: No one knew who was running the city now, and

1652
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:27,800
Speaker 1: you sure as hell didn't want to be the one

1653
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:31,800
Speaker 1: to find out. But after two weeks, you've burned through

1654
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:34,640
Speaker 1: every vacation day in every favor you'd ever accumulated at

1655
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:39,360
Speaker 1: the hospital, and besides, the rent was due. No one

1656
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:41,639
Speaker 1: was sure if the pilstal service was even still functioning,

1657
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:44,600
Speaker 1: and with the eviction moratorium lifted. You weren't going to

1658
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:46,760
Speaker 1: risk getting evicted because you weren't there to hand your

1659
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:52,240
Speaker 1: landlord a check. So with ray resignation, you pile into

1660
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:56,240
Speaker 1: your battered car and head towards no Qualmy Pass. What

1661
01:32:56,360 --> 01:32:58,519
Speaker 1: surprised you most when you hit Seattle was the art

1662
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:01,880
Speaker 1: you've been expecting. Burnt out buildings and streets filled with

1663
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:05,080
Speaker 1: burning cars, and there were some A few streets were

1664
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:08,719
Speaker 1: still blocked by what looked like improvised barricades, but every

1665
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:11,160
Speaker 1: surface of every building, it seemed, had some kind of

1666
01:33:11,240 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 1: mirror on it. Someone, and no one seemed to be

1667
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:17,200
Speaker 1: quite sure who had first come up with the idea,

1668
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:20,120
Speaker 1: had blocked off an entire street up near Capitol Hill,

1669
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:24,400
Speaker 1: and people were painstakingly painting portraits of every protester killed

1670
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:28,200
Speaker 1: in the fighting and Seattle on it. As you walked past,

1671
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:31,400
Speaker 1: they were discussing doing the same for the dead in Oakland.

1672
01:33:32,200 --> 01:33:34,880
Speaker 1: The second surprise came when you tried to pay your rent.

1673
01:33:35,640 --> 01:33:37,800
Speaker 1: A woman you've never seen before was sitting at the

1674
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:41,040
Speaker 1: office's reception desk. When you tried to handle your check,

1675
01:33:41,120 --> 01:33:43,559
Speaker 1: she laughed and handed it back to you, explaining that

1676
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 1: after the cops fled. The local tenants union had taking

1677
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:48,040
Speaker 1: over most of the apartments in the city and placed

1678
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:51,479
Speaker 1: them in something it called a Community land Trust. You

1679
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:53,680
Speaker 1: didn't quite get the details, but no one was going

1680
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:57,320
Speaker 1: to evict you, so you decided to just take the win. Besides,

1681
01:33:57,680 --> 01:33:59,920
Speaker 1: your friend had convinced you to do some child care

1682
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:02,040
Speaker 1: the tenants union in college, and they always seemed like

1683
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 1: a decent sort, so it didn't seem to be any

1684
01:34:04,160 --> 01:34:09,400
Speaker 1: immediate cause for concern. The hospital was another matter. Entirely

1685
01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:11,920
Speaker 1: from what you could gather, there had been some kind

1686
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:14,920
Speaker 1: of labor dispute between the chaos. Management seemed to have

1687
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:17,360
Speaker 1: fired a group of nurses for giving injured protester or

1688
01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:21,439
Speaker 1: shelter from the police. Your ward had already been understaff

1689
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:25,040
Speaker 1: due to COVID and budget cuts. Now the situation was

1690
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:29,160
Speaker 1: int tolerable. Where still many of the senior administrators had

1691
01:34:29,160 --> 01:34:31,720
Speaker 1: fled the city with the police, no one seemed to

1692
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:34,439
Speaker 1: know who was in charge. Supplies were starting to run low,

1693
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:37,919
Speaker 1: and with so many administrators missing in the insurance situation

1694
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:40,840
Speaker 1: completely up in the air. On account of nobody being

1695
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:43,040
Speaker 1: entirely sure if Seattle was even still part of the

1696
01:34:43,080 --> 01:34:45,880
Speaker 1: United States, it wasn't clear if anyone was going to

1697
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:48,960
Speaker 1: get paid, So when a co worker pulled you aside

1698
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:52,200
Speaker 1: and asked if you'd be interested in doing something about

1699
01:34:52,200 --> 01:34:55,840
Speaker 1: the management problem, you figured, what the hell, Maybe it

1700
01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:58,679
Speaker 1: was time for a change. It wasn't like it could

1701
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:03,360
Speaker 1: possibly make anything worse. The fired nurses, it turned out,

1702
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:06,120
Speaker 1: had started to set up a community health center with

1703
01:35:06,200 --> 01:35:09,559
Speaker 1: the help of the local neighborhood council. But some of

1704
01:35:09,600 --> 01:35:11,920
Speaker 1: the nurses still working at the hospital had another idea.

1705
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:15,559
Speaker 1: Why not just turn the hospital into the community health center.

1706
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:19,160
Speaker 1: After all, the hospital already had more equipment than any

1707
01:35:19,160 --> 01:35:22,559
Speaker 1: new center could possibly assemble. All they needed was some

1708
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:24,800
Speaker 1: help from the community, and the whole thing could be

1709
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:28,160
Speaker 1: run by a council of the hospital workers. Insurance companies

1710
01:35:28,200 --> 01:35:32,559
Speaker 1: be damned. Besides, if all the hospitals started pulling their

1711
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:34,880
Speaker 1: resources together, they might be able to solve some of

1712
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:39,520
Speaker 1: the shortages. At the mention of solving the supply shortages,

1713
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:42,840
Speaker 1: even the more skeptical workers started to come around. By

1714
01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:46,080
Speaker 1: the next morning, the Seattle Hospital Workers Council was marching

1715
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:51,040
Speaker 1: on the hospital. The remaining management found out somehow, and

1716
01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:54,439
Speaker 1: tried one final lockout to hold onto their property. But

1717
01:35:54,479 --> 01:35:57,120
Speaker 1: as you saw yet another column of protesters joining the

1718
01:35:57,120 --> 01:36:00,840
Speaker 1: crowd surrounding the hospital, you knew this wasn't their city

1719
01:36:00,880 --> 01:36:09,439
Speaker 1: any longer. On April eighteen, two thousand, one, military police

1720
01:36:09,439 --> 01:36:12,080
Speaker 1: in the Kabylia region of Algeria shot an eighteen year

1721
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:16,519
Speaker 1: old high school students. Almost immediately, hundreds of thousands of

1722
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:19,559
Speaker 1: people took to the street, chanting, you can't kill us,

1723
01:36:19,600 --> 01:36:22,160
Speaker 1: we are already dead at the lines of policemen assembled

1724
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:24,960
Speaker 1: to attack them. The police would kill over a hundred

1725
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:27,719
Speaker 1: people and severely wound five thousand more in the months

1726
01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:30,920
Speaker 1: long battle for control of the streets that followed, but

1727
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:35,679
Speaker 1: protesters burned police stations, government offices, courts, and the offices

1728
01:36:35,720 --> 01:36:38,760
Speaker 1: of Islamic fundamentalist parties until the government agreed to give

1729
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:43,080
Speaker 1: ethnic minority groups language and cultural rights. The hated military

1730
01:36:43,120 --> 01:36:46,320
Speaker 1: police were driven from the region entirely, and so few

1731
01:36:46,360 --> 01:36:49,839
Speaker 1: regular police stations survived the uprising. At the regular police

1732
01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:53,640
Speaker 1: likewise ceased to function across broad swaths of Kabilia. They

1733
01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:56,600
Speaker 1: were replaced on a local village level by self organized

1734
01:36:56,640 --> 01:36:59,920
Speaker 1: security committees, which would assemble on the rare occasion. Travel

1735
01:37:00,000 --> 01:37:04,840
Speaker 1: will emerged. Contrary to the expectations of the state crime plummeted,

1736
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:09,719
Speaker 1: but the Algerian government otherwise continued to function as usual

1737
01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:12,479
Speaker 1: for over a decade until the local government in a

1738
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:17,559
Speaker 1: small region, cover Baca, attempted the regular local elections. After

1739
01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:20,439
Speaker 1: banning the most popular political party in the region, they

1740
01:37:20,479 --> 01:37:25,960
Speaker 1: installed an unpopular coalition governments. The people of Barbaca responded

1741
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:28,640
Speaker 1: by storming the city hall, seizing control of it and

1742
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:31,799
Speaker 1: setting up a democratic General Assembly inside the newly dubbed

1743
01:37:32,040 --> 01:37:35,960
Speaker 1: House of the People to replace the existing government. This

1744
01:37:36,040 --> 01:37:38,960
Speaker 1: was dual power in its original sense, the Council of

1745
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:43,840
Speaker 1: the People facing off against an increasingly illegitimate parliamentary representative

1746
01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 1: in a struggle for control over the fate of a

1747
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:50,280
Speaker 1: new society. If you google dual power, you are likely

1748
01:37:50,320 --> 01:37:53,519
Speaker 1: to encounter a pamphlet written by Vladimir Lenin entitled The

1749
01:37:53,600 --> 01:37:57,320
Speaker 1: Dual Power, describing the conundrum of the situation following the

1750
01:37:57,320 --> 01:38:02,120
Speaker 1: First Russian Revolution in February of nineteen after the overthrow

1751
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:06,040
Speaker 1: of the Czar, political power was split between two competing bodies.

1752
01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:09,800
Speaker 1: On the one side, a new provisional government of liberal

1753
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:13,720
Speaker 1: and social democratic politicians holdovers from the old Duma from

1754
01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:17,880
Speaker 1: the previous regime. On the other side, revolutionary social forces

1755
01:38:17,960 --> 01:38:22,879
Speaker 1: rallying around assemblies popular power called soviets, which were councils

1756
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:26,840
Speaker 1: of delegates sent by directly democratic factories, soldiers and sailors committees.

1757
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:30,720
Speaker 1: Lenin solve this as a situation to be overcome by

1758
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:34,080
Speaker 1: the seizure of state power by Socialist Party. For Lenin

1759
01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:37,040
Speaker 1: and his Bolsheviks, dual power was a problem because, after

1760
01:38:37,080 --> 01:38:39,200
Speaker 1: the Czar's state ceased to exist in the middle of

1761
01:38:39,200 --> 01:38:42,479
Speaker 1: the World War, the new provisional government failed to fill

1762
01:38:42,520 --> 01:38:46,400
Speaker 1: the vacuum left in its wake by its collapse. To Lenin,

1763
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:50,680
Speaker 1: the solution was obvious, fill that vacuum with Lenin. For

1764
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:53,400
Speaker 1: the peasants, soldiers, and workers, who made up the majority

1765
01:38:53,439 --> 01:38:57,879
Speaker 1: of Russia's population, however, dual power was their first fleeting

1766
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:02,040
Speaker 1: taste of freedom and autonomous control over their lives. Lennon

1767
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:05,280
Speaker 1: used the soviets to seize power, but almost immediately began

1768
01:39:05,320 --> 01:39:09,040
Speaker 1: to turn on these democratic assemblies of popular autonomy. Over

1769
01:39:09,080 --> 01:39:11,760
Speaker 1: the course of the Russian Civil War, Lennon and the

1770
01:39:11,800 --> 01:39:15,160
Speaker 1: Bolsheviks strip power away from the workers, peasants, and soldiers,

1771
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:19,320
Speaker 1: sometimes by bureaucratic fiat, often at the point of a bayonet,

1772
01:39:19,800 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 1: until the Soviet have been stripped of all meeting in

1773
01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:25,559
Speaker 1: the very state named after their democratic form, and became

1774
01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:29,639
Speaker 1: synonymous with dictatorship. Dual power today draws from the potential

1775
01:39:29,680 --> 01:39:33,120
Speaker 1: of that post revolutionary crisis from the bottom up direct

1776
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:35,880
Speaker 1: democracy that was so threatening to the social order that

1777
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:39,519
Speaker 1: Bolshevik revolutionaries and Czar's Police by his alike conspired to

1778
01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:43,040
Speaker 1: wipe them from the historical record. Just as Russia was

1779
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:45,760
Speaker 1: haunted by the memory of the French communes, so is

1780
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:48,479
Speaker 1: America today haunted by a memory of dual power that,

1781
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:52,200
Speaker 1: against all lodge refuses to die. We are, after all,

1782
01:39:52,479 --> 01:39:55,000
Speaker 1: still ruled by a greedy, bloodthirsty, and out of touch

1783
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:56,920
Speaker 1: elite who have chosen the march us to our deaths

1784
01:39:56,960 --> 01:39:59,000
Speaker 1: by the hundreds of thousands by forcing us back to

1785
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:02,720
Speaker 1: work doing a plague. But the Russian Revolution is as

1786
01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:05,599
Speaker 1: far away from us today as Napoleon and his brass

1787
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:08,719
Speaker 1: cannons were from the Russian revolutionaries and their machine guns.

1788
01:40:09,680 --> 01:40:12,720
Speaker 1: Times have changed. There is no Bolshevik party waiting in

1789
01:40:12,720 --> 01:40:15,720
Speaker 1: the wings to seize power as the state crumbles. The

1790
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:17,800
Speaker 1: vacuum of the state leaves in its wake as its

1791
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:21,599
Speaker 1: power deteriorates, be filled by any number of organizations, most

1792
01:40:21,640 --> 01:40:24,040
Speaker 1: even more hostile to the working class and the Bolsheviks

1793
01:40:24,040 --> 01:40:26,839
Speaker 1: had been. It could be war lords with the personal

1794
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:29,479
Speaker 1: allegiance of the remains of the military. It could be

1795
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:33,599
Speaker 1: organized crime. It could be religious fundamentalist militias. Most likely,

1796
01:40:33,640 --> 01:40:35,960
Speaker 1: it will be an uneasy combination of all of the above.

1797
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:41,400
Speaker 1: Or it could be you. It could be your family,

1798
01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:45,240
Speaker 1: your friends, your neighbors, your co workers, the person you

1799
01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:47,200
Speaker 1: waved here every morning at the bus stop when you're

1800
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:50,000
Speaker 1: on your way to work. The past to that world,

1801
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:53,400
Speaker 1: the world run not by capitalists in their cops or

1802
01:40:53,439 --> 01:40:56,680
Speaker 1: by war lords in their armies, but by autonomous communities

1803
01:40:56,720 --> 01:40:59,680
Speaker 1: free to decide for themselves what to produce and how

1804
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:01,960
Speaker 1: to bet, to use their resources, to care for each other.

1805
01:41:02,560 --> 01:41:06,160
Speaker 1: Is dual power in the twenty first century. At its core,

1806
01:41:06,479 --> 01:41:09,320
Speaker 1: dual power is about creating a counter power against the state.

1807
01:41:10,160 --> 01:41:13,599
Speaker 1: During the Russian Revolution, this counterpower was formed essentially by

1808
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:17,439
Speaker 1: historical accidents, as two governing bodies emerged from the course

1809
01:41:17,479 --> 01:41:21,400
Speaker 1: of the Febrarian Revolution. But modern dual power does not

1810
01:41:21,479 --> 01:41:24,080
Speaker 1: arise from the whims of the course of revolution or

1811
01:41:24,120 --> 01:41:26,800
Speaker 1: from an innate instinct of the working class. It is

1812
01:41:26,840 --> 01:41:30,080
Speaker 1: something we've built together by creating organizations that resist the

1813
01:41:30,120 --> 01:41:34,760
Speaker 1: power of the structures of violence, capitalism, racism, homophobia, and

1814
01:41:34,800 --> 01:41:39,080
Speaker 1: the state name a few that control this world. Dual

1815
01:41:39,120 --> 01:41:42,880
Speaker 1: power organizations can take many forms, from tennis unions, the

1816
01:41:42,920 --> 01:41:48,360
Speaker 1: debtors councils, childcare cooperatives, to land occupations, workers councils, to

1817
01:41:48,400 --> 01:41:51,879
Speaker 1: rank and file labor unions, mutual aid networks to community

1818
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:57,479
Speaker 1: self defense organizations. These organizations seek to build autonomy from

1819
01:41:57,479 --> 01:42:00,840
Speaker 1: and against capitalism. In the state alone, there are no

1820
01:42:00,920 --> 01:42:03,320
Speaker 1: match for the state's world power to inflict violence and

1821
01:42:03,400 --> 01:42:07,200
Speaker 1: corporate control over our resources. But by joining together to

1822
01:42:07,240 --> 01:42:10,760
Speaker 1: form federations and pooling their resources and expertise to coordinate

1823
01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:13,840
Speaker 1: their efforts, they can become a powerful enough force to

1824
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:18,200
Speaker 1: challenge the state both directly and indirectly. These dual power

1825
01:42:18,320 --> 01:42:21,920
Speaker 1: organizations are designed to be the state's successor. As the

1826
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:24,840
Speaker 1: industrial workers of the world famously put it, they form

1827
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:27,000
Speaker 1: the structure of the new society and the shell of

1828
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:30,280
Speaker 1: the old. In order to fulfill that task, they take

1829
01:42:30,280 --> 01:42:33,160
Speaker 1: the shape of new society they set to create. Academics

1830
01:42:33,200 --> 01:42:37,280
Speaker 1: called this prefigurative politics, organizing that employs the values and

1831
01:42:37,400 --> 01:42:40,200
Speaker 1: organizational structures that they seek to create in the world.

1832
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:43,400
Speaker 1: As we will discuss in the next episode, there are

1833
01:42:43,479 --> 01:42:46,400
Speaker 1: right wing forms of both dual power and profigative politics,

1834
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:50,840
Speaker 1: but for most of the people who employ it, prefigurative

1835
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:56,560
Speaker 1: politics means creating direct democratic institutions without bosses, managers, bureaucrats,

1836
01:42:56,720 --> 01:43:00,559
Speaker 1: or party apparatus. The means of career aiding the new

1837
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:05,200
Speaker 1: world are thus the same as the ends. Dual power

1838
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:09,280
Speaker 1: organizations serve multiple purposes. Their long term goal is to

1839
01:43:09,320 --> 01:43:12,240
Speaker 1: replace the state and the corporation with free and autonomous

1840
01:43:12,280 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 1: forms of organization. One's organized and powerful enough to protect

1841
01:43:16,439 --> 01:43:19,479
Speaker 1: themselves and manage the logistical challenges of a new world

1842
01:43:20,040 --> 01:43:23,120
Speaker 1: with previous forms of organization and power no longer exist.

1843
01:43:24,680 --> 01:43:27,360
Speaker 1: But even reaching a point where this is remotely plausible

1844
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:32,560
Speaker 1: requires not just the painstaking construction of counterpower and organization

1845
01:43:32,600 --> 01:43:36,400
Speaker 1: out of a fragmented American population. It requires a profound

1846
01:43:36,439 --> 01:43:40,680
Speaker 1: cultural transformation and how we make decisions. As the anthropologist

1847
01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:44,160
Speaker 1: David Graeber put it, it is assumed in many parts

1848
01:43:44,160 --> 01:43:46,320
Speaker 1: of the world that democracy is a group of people

1849
01:43:46,360 --> 01:43:49,200
Speaker 1: facing a certain problem who come together to solve it

1850
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:51,840
Speaker 1: in a way where everyone has an equals say, it's

1851
01:43:51,880 --> 01:43:54,360
Speaker 1: true that most Americans think of themselves as living in

1852
01:43:54,360 --> 01:43:57,400
Speaker 1: a democratic country. When put the last time that any

1853
01:43:57,439 --> 01:43:59,920
Speaker 1: Americans actually sat down and came to a collective to

1854
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:03,479
Speaker 1: decision maybe if they were ordering pizza, but basically never

1855
01:44:05,200 --> 01:44:09,000
Speaker 1: Dual power organizations thus also service schools for democracy where

1856
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:12,599
Speaker 1: people can learn, experiment with, create, and spread their own

1857
01:44:12,640 --> 01:44:16,919
Speaker 1: forms of democracy and collective decision making. When these spaces

1858
01:44:16,920 --> 01:44:21,719
Speaker 1: of democratic experimentation are functioning properly, their very organizational structure

1859
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:24,160
Speaker 1: serves as a kind of recruitment tool. This was the

1860
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:27,720
Speaker 1: original theory behind Occupy Wall Street, that democracy and the

1861
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:31,160
Speaker 1: experience of autonomy were contagious and would spread rapidly as

1862
01:44:31,240 --> 01:44:35,600
Speaker 1: more and more curious people experienced it for themselves. That experience,

1863
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:38,000
Speaker 1: in turn, would create a new generation of people trained

1864
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:43,040
Speaker 1: in democratic practices who could go forth and transforming the world. Obviously,

1865
01:44:43,080 --> 01:44:46,639
Speaker 1: this didn't quite happen. Occupies model of democracy was limited

1866
01:44:46,680 --> 01:44:48,920
Speaker 1: in many ways, not the least of which was that

1867
01:44:48,960 --> 01:44:51,560
Speaker 1: it required a public, physical meeting space that could be

1868
01:44:51,560 --> 01:44:55,120
Speaker 1: closed down by police violence. But the initial premise worked

1869
01:44:55,960 --> 01:44:58,479
Speaker 1: Occupy itself, of course, had been inspired by the mass

1870
01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:01,839
Speaker 1: democratic assemblies in Spain. In Greece in two thousand eleven

1871
01:45:02,680 --> 01:45:06,120
Speaker 1: and the direct democratic coops and factory occupations that engulfed

1872
01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:09,439
Speaker 1: Argentina for the better part of the two thousand's. At

1873
01:45:09,479 --> 01:45:13,440
Speaker 1: the most basic, short term level, however, dual power organizations

1874
01:45:13,439 --> 01:45:17,320
Speaker 1: are designed me people's needs. The cornerstone of this effort

1875
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:20,400
Speaker 1: is mutual aid. Probably the most famous example of such

1876
01:45:20,439 --> 01:45:24,000
Speaker 1: a project with the Black Panther Party survival programs. Former

1877
01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:27,880
Speaker 1: Black Panther Janina Irvine describes them in detail. The Black

1878
01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:30,960
Speaker 1: Panther Party survival programs were, in fact an example of

1879
01:45:31,000 --> 01:45:33,800
Speaker 1: an effort, a successful effort, while it lasted to create

1880
01:45:33,880 --> 01:45:36,920
Speaker 1: dual power in the United States. The Black Panther Party

1881
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:40,080
Speaker 1: had a school, had free food programs. One of its

1882
01:45:40,160 --> 01:45:43,960
Speaker 1: most respected survival programs was a breakfast for children, which

1883
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:46,799
Speaker 1: was overall a response to hunger and poverty in the country,

1884
01:45:46,840 --> 01:45:51,599
Speaker 1: particularly among poor, low income black people. We had free

1885
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:55,480
Speaker 1: medical clinics in Winston Salem, North Carolina. We had free ambulances,

1886
01:45:55,520 --> 01:45:58,080
Speaker 1: free past control, free shoes, we had free bussing to

1887
01:45:58,200 --> 01:46:01,879
Speaker 1: prison programs, legal aid programs to help people get attorneys

1888
01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:04,080
Speaker 1: who needed them. And we had a program that was

1889
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:07,600
Speaker 1: called the Safe Program Seniors against a fearful environment in

1890
01:46:07,640 --> 01:46:10,920
Speaker 1: which we provided free transportation and escort service the senior

1891
01:46:10,920 --> 01:46:13,200
Speaker 1: citizens who needed to get out and take care of

1892
01:46:13,240 --> 01:46:16,160
Speaker 1: their errands their business. They were often being attacked, so

1893
01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:19,439
Speaker 1: this was a forre protection for them. The Panthers were

1894
01:46:19,439 --> 01:46:23,760
Speaker 1: able to grow their influence by keeping their communities safe, healthy,

1895
01:46:23,760 --> 01:46:27,840
Speaker 1: cared for, and increasingly autonomous for the state. But most importantly,

1896
01:46:28,160 --> 01:46:31,679
Speaker 1: they were able to keep people alive. As Black Panthers

1897
01:46:31,720 --> 01:46:35,759
Speaker 1: co founder Hue P. Newton famously said, these survival programs

1898
01:46:35,760 --> 01:46:38,120
Speaker 1: satisfy the deep needs of the community, but they are

1899
01:46:38,160 --> 01:46:40,760
Speaker 1: not solutions to our problem. That is why we call

1900
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:46,559
Speaker 1: them survival programs meeting survival pending revolution. The existence of

1901
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:50,919
Speaker 1: the survival programs themselves reflect the necessity of keeping people alive,

1902
01:46:51,680 --> 01:46:53,880
Speaker 1: especially people who the state would rather kill or leave

1903
01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:58,000
Speaker 1: to die for building any kind of power. These programs

1904
01:46:58,160 --> 01:47:03,000
Speaker 1: are also necessarily insufficient. No mutual aid program, no autonomous project,

1905
01:47:03,040 --> 01:47:07,040
Speaker 1: no liberated territory can provide for the entire community. While

1906
01:47:07,080 --> 01:47:11,760
Speaker 1: the corporation's capitalists and states maintain their stranglehold over the

1907
01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:15,960
Speaker 1: resources and production capacity at the working class, collectively created

1908
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:21,680
Speaker 1: over centuries of grueling labor or struggle, dual power more

1909
01:47:21,720 --> 01:47:24,800
Speaker 1: than just survival, is about building the counter power to

1910
01:47:24,840 --> 01:47:29,760
Speaker 1: take it back. Building powers withdraws the line between what

1911
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:33,080
Speaker 1: is and isn't dual power. Growing food for you and

1912
01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:35,080
Speaker 1: your friends, make cut down on bills, and make some

1913
01:47:35,160 --> 01:47:39,200
Speaker 1: killer pesto, but it's not necessarily challenging the capitalist system.

1914
01:47:40,439 --> 01:47:43,639
Speaker 1: Autonomy for its own sake is not necessarily dual power

1915
01:47:44,760 --> 01:47:48,519
Speaker 1: if it doesn't actively aid in struggle or better organize

1916
01:47:48,560 --> 01:47:51,679
Speaker 1: the community. That from the perspective of building counter power,

1917
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:56,240
Speaker 1: that autonomy is meaningless. Making food for striking workers to

1918
01:47:56,280 --> 01:47:59,559
Speaker 1: allow them to stay on strike longer is building dual power.

1919
01:48:01,160 --> 01:48:04,240
Speaker 1: We're simply producing it for general consumption is not. While

1920
01:48:04,280 --> 01:48:08,360
Speaker 1: dual power organizations necessarily serve the needs of the community,

1921
01:48:08,400 --> 01:48:10,640
Speaker 1: they must also be able to pivot and attack the

1922
01:48:10,640 --> 01:48:13,880
Speaker 1: state in capital and provide solidarity and mutual aid to

1923
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:17,120
Speaker 1: those in their community who are already in struggle, or

1924
01:48:17,320 --> 01:48:21,479
Speaker 1: they simply aren' dual power organizations at all. The simplest

1925
01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:23,960
Speaker 1: solution to this problem, of course, is to organize around

1926
01:48:23,960 --> 01:48:27,280
Speaker 1: a specific side of resistance. Organizations that build up the

1927
01:48:27,320 --> 01:48:31,160
Speaker 1: capacity to fight can emerge from almost anywhere. The Symbiosis

1928
01:48:31,200 --> 01:48:35,080
Speaker 1: Research Collective described how dual power organizations emerge from Palestinian

1929
01:48:35,120 --> 01:48:38,160
Speaker 1: prison organizing bring the First into Fata and uprising against

1930
01:48:38,160 --> 01:48:42,479
Speaker 1: the Israeli governments in late nineteen eighties. Most discussion of

1931
01:48:42,520 --> 01:48:44,880
Speaker 1: the First into Fata focuses on the role of mass

1932
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:49,599
Speaker 1: protests in making Palestinian society ungovernable for the Israeli occupying forces.

1933
01:48:50,720 --> 01:48:53,920
Speaker 1: Less discussed is the role of community organizations of mutual

1934
01:48:53,960 --> 01:48:58,280
Speaker 1: aid and confederated participatory democracy and making such mass protests possible.

1935
01:48:59,360 --> 01:49:02,800
Speaker 1: Organizing for within the political system was a political incubator

1936
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:07,280
Speaker 1: of the Palestinian resistance movement and offers a microcosmic example

1937
01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:10,240
Speaker 1: of the developments of dual power in the much larger

1938
01:49:10,280 --> 01:49:14,839
Speaker 1: prison of the occupation with hunger strikes. Political prisoners eventually

1939
01:49:14,840 --> 01:49:17,960
Speaker 1: won concessions for their own self administration within the prisons.

1940
01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:23,120
Speaker 1: They assembled structures of political organization and representation, forced prison

1941
01:49:23,160 --> 01:49:27,120
Speaker 1: authorities to recognize their representatives, and developed a division of

1942
01:49:27,200 --> 01:49:32,240
Speaker 1: labor around hygiene, education and other daily tasks. Palestinian prisoners

1943
01:49:32,320 --> 01:49:36,320
Speaker 1: described this arrangement as internal organization, similar to the concept

1944
01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:40,120
Speaker 1: of dual power. Even the least free of circumstances, these

1945
01:49:40,120 --> 01:49:43,280
Speaker 1: prisoners carved out space for self governments and created the

1946
01:49:43,280 --> 01:49:47,840
Speaker 1: preconditions to revolutionary struggle. Prisoners taught and studied everything from

1947
01:49:47,840 --> 01:49:52,040
Speaker 1: Palestinian history to Marxist the political economy, often from eight

1948
01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:55,639
Speaker 1: to fourteen hours per day. As freshly educated and trained

1949
01:49:55,680 --> 01:49:59,639
Speaker 1: political activists were released back into society, the resistance movement

1950
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:03,639
Speaker 1: was gal vanized. Illiterate teenage boys arrested for throwing stones

1951
01:50:03,760 --> 01:50:07,200
Speaker 1: re entered the fray months later as committed, competent organizers

1952
01:50:07,200 --> 01:50:12,840
Speaker 1: who had studied movement building, strategic resistance, and dialectical materialism. Meanwhile,

1953
01:50:13,040 --> 01:50:17,400
Speaker 1: the organizing context outside of the prison transformed dramatically. Saleh

1954
01:50:17,400 --> 01:50:22,960
Speaker 1: Abou laban of Palestinian political prisoner from nineteen seventy until nine, stated,

1955
01:50:23,479 --> 01:50:25,960
Speaker 1: when I entered the prison, there wasn't a national movement.

1956
01:50:27,160 --> 01:50:30,639
Speaker 1: There were only underground cells that performed clandestine lee. When

1957
01:50:30,640 --> 01:50:33,559
Speaker 1: I got out, I found a world full of organizers, committees,

1958
01:50:33,560 --> 01:50:37,479
Speaker 1: and community institutions. Central to this new world of community

1959
01:50:37,560 --> 01:50:41,439
Speaker 1: organizing was the Palestinian labor movement. Unions reformed out of

1960
01:50:41,439 --> 01:50:44,880
Speaker 1: workers places of residents rather than workplaces, because migrant labor

1961
01:50:44,960 --> 01:50:48,280
Speaker 1: was prevalence in Palestinian unionism within Israel had been criminalized.

1962
01:50:49,360 --> 01:50:52,400
Speaker 1: Unions then formed strong alliances with local organizations in the

1963
01:50:52,479 --> 01:50:56,759
Speaker 1: national movement. With rapid growth in the early nineteen eighties,

1964
01:50:57,720 --> 01:51:00,800
Speaker 1: labor unions found it necessary to to centralize and democratize

1965
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:04,600
Speaker 1: their structures to become more resilient as Israeli repression intensified

1966
01:51:04,600 --> 01:51:08,559
Speaker 1: against union leaders and organizers. These local unions were networked

1967
01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:12,120
Speaker 1: together through the Palestinian Communist Party and the Workers Unity Block,

1968
01:51:12,520 --> 01:51:15,400
Speaker 1: creating a web of labor organizers and community groups that

1969
01:51:15,439 --> 01:51:18,680
Speaker 1: linked their class struggle to the larger project of national liberation.

1970
01:51:19,760 --> 01:51:23,240
Speaker 1: This wave of resistance, carried out largely outside the purview

1971
01:51:23,280 --> 01:51:26,920
Speaker 1: of the major Palestinian political parties, showed that even communities

1972
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:30,560
Speaker 1: and the most dire circumstances can assemble astounding levels of

1973
01:51:30,680 --> 01:51:34,040
Speaker 1: organization and resistance, as was also true in the United States.

1974
01:51:34,040 --> 01:51:37,560
Speaker 1: Although today the memory of these prison radicals is largely forgotten,

1975
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:41,439
Speaker 1: Palestinian organizing emerged from the sites of deepest depression in

1976
01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:45,200
Speaker 1: their society. But this kind and level of organization is

1977
01:51:45,240 --> 01:51:48,040
Speaker 1: not just the property of the left, and in Part

1978
01:51:48,080 --> 01:51:50,400
Speaker 1: two we'll see what happens when the right gets hold

1979
01:51:50,400 --> 01:52:02,920
Speaker 1: of it. It's been three months since you and your

1980
01:52:02,920 --> 01:52:06,000
Speaker 1: co workers took control of the hospital. Things aren't back

1981
01:52:06,000 --> 01:52:08,960
Speaker 1: to normal yet. You're not even really sure what normal

1982
01:52:09,080 --> 01:52:11,840
Speaker 1: is anymore. But the days have fallen into a kind

1983
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:14,760
Speaker 1: of routine. It's Thursday, which means it's your turn to

1984
01:52:14,800 --> 01:52:17,200
Speaker 1: go report back to what a friend jokingly referred to

1985
01:52:17,320 --> 01:52:20,559
Speaker 1: as the Endless Meeting Assembly was now forever known as

1986
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:22,799
Speaker 1: the e m A. The e m A is technically

1987
01:52:22,840 --> 01:52:25,320
Speaker 1: the closest thing left to a central government in Seattle.

1988
01:52:25,600 --> 01:52:28,200
Speaker 1: It was formed as a sort of coordinating council between

1989
01:52:28,240 --> 01:52:31,840
Speaker 1: the various organizations and workers councils that had emerged or

1990
01:52:31,880 --> 01:52:34,680
Speaker 1: simply emerged from the woodworks in the wake of the

1991
01:52:34,720 --> 01:52:39,160
Speaker 1: collapse of the police. Two things have become clear very quickly. One,

1992
01:52:39,640 --> 01:52:42,160
Speaker 1: there was need for some kind of coordinating committee between

1993
01:52:42,200 --> 01:52:45,320
Speaker 1: the different bodies to The only people who had any

1994
01:52:45,400 --> 01:52:47,479
Speaker 1: idea what was going on in their portion of the

1995
01:52:47,479 --> 01:52:50,000
Speaker 1: city or in their workplace were the members of the

1996
01:52:50,040 --> 01:52:52,519
Speaker 1: local council, which meant there was no way in hell

1997
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:55,080
Speaker 1: any kind of central apparatus could dictate to them what

1998
01:52:55,160 --> 01:52:57,680
Speaker 1: actually needed to be done. There just wasn't a way

1999
01:52:57,720 --> 01:53:01,160
Speaker 1: to move the information around. The solution have been decentralization.

2000
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:04,040
Speaker 1: Let the councils do their work, let them work out

2001
01:53:04,040 --> 01:53:06,360
Speaker 1: who they needed to talk to, but make sure there

2002
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:08,400
Speaker 1: was some kind of daily council that people could show

2003
01:53:08,439 --> 01:53:10,800
Speaker 1: up to. Were the various groups we do report backs

2004
01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:12,840
Speaker 1: and what they were doing and what they needed. The

2005
01:53:12,880 --> 01:53:16,080
Speaker 1: structure was messy, but it mostly worked, and at least

2006
01:53:16,120 --> 01:53:18,280
Speaker 1: someone had had the idea to make sure if the

2007
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:21,559
Speaker 1: delegate to the e m A rotated so one person

2008
01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:24,760
Speaker 1: wasn't stuck spending after life showing up every day. The

2009
01:53:24,840 --> 01:53:28,080
Speaker 1: problem really was the same problem you've been dealing with

2010
01:53:28,240 --> 01:53:31,760
Speaker 1: for months now. Even with the pooling of resources and

2011
01:53:31,800 --> 01:53:35,599
Speaker 1: people donating their last precious American dollars to paying people

2012
01:53:35,640 --> 01:53:38,800
Speaker 1: to import more supplies, the blockade was taking its toll.

2013
01:53:39,240 --> 01:53:41,640
Speaker 1: Nobody wanted to try to force their way through the

2014
01:53:41,640 --> 01:53:44,640
Speaker 1: blockades and the cascades. There's been some attempts to get

2015
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:47,320
Speaker 1: in touch with groups in Portland's, but the control map

2016
01:53:47,560 --> 01:53:49,559
Speaker 1: was so ugly there was no real chance of getting

2017
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:54,920
Speaker 1: any assistance. Besides, the real problem was the port. When

2018
01:53:54,960 --> 01:53:57,400
Speaker 1: the cops had fled, the ships should simply stop coming.

2019
01:53:57,840 --> 01:54:01,360
Speaker 1: They're routed further south, any of them to Oakland, or

2020
01:54:01,400 --> 01:54:04,720
Speaker 1: so you'd heard. The logistics lines were collapsing faster than

2021
01:54:04,720 --> 01:54:07,080
Speaker 1: anyone could piece them back together. What the long term

2022
01:54:07,080 --> 01:54:10,760
Speaker 1: consequences would be, no one knew, but something was going

2023
01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:13,040
Speaker 1: to have to change. The calls to start engaging in

2024
01:54:13,080 --> 01:54:16,760
Speaker 1: piracy were only half oaks. Now. A week later, an

2025
01:54:16,800 --> 01:54:20,960
Speaker 1: answer of sorts arrived. It wasn't precisely what anyone had

2026
01:54:20,960 --> 01:54:26,720
Speaker 1: been expecting. You'd heard about negotiations between workers councils, shipping companies,

2027
01:54:27,080 --> 01:54:29,680
Speaker 1: and a couple of governments to try to prevent a

2028
01:54:29,720 --> 01:54:32,560
Speaker 1: bloodbath the docks, with the porter to Seattle already at

2029
01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:36,080
Speaker 1: a commission, no one could afford another stoppage. You hadn't

2030
01:54:36,080 --> 01:54:37,840
Speaker 1: really been sure what to make of it, but the

2031
01:54:37,960 --> 01:54:41,600
Speaker 1: representatives were here now. What they proposed in front of

2032
01:54:41,640 --> 01:54:44,280
Speaker 1: the largest assembly you'd ever seen was a kind of

2033
01:54:44,360 --> 01:54:47,600
Speaker 1: under the table deal. In essence, the port workers would

2034
01:54:47,600 --> 01:54:50,040
Speaker 1: go back to work in both Oakland and Seattle in

2035
01:54:50,120 --> 01:54:52,840
Speaker 1: exchange for seeding part of Oakland itself to a newly

2036
01:54:52,880 --> 01:54:55,400
Speaker 1: formed federation. No one was sure how any of this

2037
01:54:55,520 --> 01:54:57,680
Speaker 1: was actually supposed to work, but it was the first

2038
01:54:57,720 --> 01:55:00,920
Speaker 1: chance you'd seen in months to start solving the supply problem.

2039
01:55:01,040 --> 01:55:03,600
Speaker 1: That didn't mean everyone else would agree to it. Democracy

2040
01:55:04,280 --> 01:55:08,680
Speaker 1: is still democracy, after all, but maybe, just maybe with

2041
01:55:08,760 --> 01:55:11,600
Speaker 1: a toe hold in Oaklands, the Council's would start to spread,

2042
01:55:12,040 --> 01:55:15,040
Speaker 1: and that so called government in California was looking shakier

2043
01:55:15,120 --> 01:55:19,720
Speaker 1: every day. Who knew, maybe next time you wouldn't be

2044
01:55:19,760 --> 01:55:28,200
Speaker 1: negotiating at all. In March of two thousand four, American

2045
01:55:28,240 --> 01:55:30,840
Speaker 1: occupation forces in a Rock attempted to shut down the

2046
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:34,960
Speaker 1: newspaper of a Chiite cleric named Matada el Solder. The

2047
01:55:35,000 --> 01:55:38,280
Speaker 1: Americans had expected Sodder to simply fold under the weight

2048
01:55:38,280 --> 01:55:42,320
Speaker 1: of the coalition's pressure. Instead, they triggered mass protest that

2049
01:55:42,400 --> 01:55:45,080
Speaker 1: quickly turned into an armed uprising. This was a new

2050
01:55:45,120 --> 01:55:49,400
Speaker 1: force at Iraq. The American occupation force, who'd been expecting

2051
01:55:49,480 --> 01:55:52,120
Speaker 1: to be fighting al Quaeda and maybe the rump of

2052
01:55:52,120 --> 01:55:55,720
Speaker 1: the remaining Baptists, were stunned to suddenly be facing a

2053
01:55:55,760 --> 01:55:59,920
Speaker 1: working class uprising among the rock Si population. This new mode,

2054
01:56:00,040 --> 01:56:04,200
Speaker 1: the army, as it began to call itself, was extremely

2055
01:56:04,240 --> 01:56:07,760
Speaker 1: well organized and were initially able to route coalition forces.

2056
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:10,200
Speaker 1: So what was this body army that had so thoroughly

2057
01:56:10,240 --> 01:56:13,360
Speaker 1: rewritten the rules of Rock? Shortly after the US to

2058
01:56:13,440 --> 01:56:16,480
Speaker 1: posted on Musse In two thousand and three Booktato Sawder,

2059
01:56:17,200 --> 01:56:20,080
Speaker 1: the son of another famous Rocky hi at religious figure.

2060
01:56:20,320 --> 01:56:23,240
Speaker 1: Both Sauders had been famous for this support and care

2061
01:56:23,360 --> 01:56:26,320
Speaker 1: for the poor, so when Sauder returned to a Rock,

2062
01:56:26,880 --> 01:56:29,800
Speaker 1: he began to build a political base among the Rocks

2063
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:33,680
Speaker 1: working class, particularly in Solder City, a working class suburb

2064
01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:37,760
Speaker 1: of Baghdad. He used his organization to redistribute wealth, providing

2065
01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:41,680
Speaker 1: form of welfare states in an almost completely shattered country.

2066
01:56:41,800 --> 01:56:43,960
Speaker 1: But are In his allies also began to set up

2067
01:56:43,960 --> 01:56:48,040
Speaker 1: a network of freak clinics for pregnant and nursing mothers.

2068
01:56:48,200 --> 01:56:51,200
Speaker 1: They used these clinics, which were enormously popular, to build

2069
01:56:51,200 --> 01:56:54,440
Speaker 1: a base of support. It is, after all, extremely difficult,

2070
01:56:54,520 --> 01:56:58,280
Speaker 1: no matter what your ideological or political disagreements with the group,

2071
01:56:58,720 --> 01:57:02,000
Speaker 1: to attack them when the running free clinics for pregnant mothers.

2072
01:57:02,400 --> 01:57:05,400
Speaker 1: They protected these clinics with militias, which allowed them to

2073
01:57:05,440 --> 01:57:09,280
Speaker 1: transform the community organizations and good will that they had

2074
01:57:09,320 --> 01:57:12,560
Speaker 1: gained from the clinic into the military power necessary for

2075
01:57:12,560 --> 01:57:16,480
Speaker 1: self governance and eventually for resistance against the American occupation.

2076
01:57:16,880 --> 01:57:21,080
Speaker 1: Strategy proved enormously successful. Mattao Sauder is still today one

2077
01:57:21,120 --> 01:57:24,600
Speaker 1: of the most important political figures in Iraq, despite sustained

2078
01:57:24,600 --> 01:57:28,280
Speaker 1: coalition and occupation force attempts to stamp them out, but

2079
01:57:28,400 --> 01:57:31,640
Speaker 1: for all their working class support, the Soterists for by

2080
01:57:31,680 --> 01:57:36,560
Speaker 1: no means leftists. In late twenty nineteen, massive anti asterity,

2081
01:57:36,680 --> 01:57:40,200
Speaker 1: anti imperialists, and anti sectarian protests erupted in Iraq as

2082
01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:44,400
Speaker 1: a reaction to the murderous incompetence of the Iraqi government, who,

2083
01:57:44,680 --> 01:57:48,040
Speaker 1: among other crimes, managed to poison a hundred and eighteen

2084
01:57:48,040 --> 01:57:51,680
Speaker 1: thousand people in Bosra through the mismanagement and subsequent contamination

2085
01:57:51,720 --> 01:57:56,160
Speaker 1: of the water supply. Also are initially backed the protest

2086
01:57:56,520 --> 01:58:00,000
Speaker 1: but turned on them in early at which point sauterism

2087
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:02,760
Speaker 1: alicias begin to carry out a brutal campaign of repression

2088
01:58:02,800 --> 01:58:08,880
Speaker 1: against the protest camps that culminated in outrent massacres of protesters.

2089
01:58:08,920 --> 01:58:13,320
Speaker 1: These massacres became semi regular features of soterist mass mobilizations,

2090
01:58:13,440 --> 01:58:18,280
Speaker 1: and alongside state and paramilitary disappearances of activists, the attacks

2091
01:58:18,360 --> 01:58:22,160
Speaker 1: essentially crushed the uprising. The violent homophobia and sexism of

2092
01:58:22,200 --> 01:58:25,600
Speaker 1: the Soderus may see met odds with their anti imperialism

2093
01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:28,120
Speaker 1: and concern for the poor, but right wing organizations have

2094
01:58:28,240 --> 01:58:33,640
Speaker 1: often adapted specific policies, positions, and organizational structures from the

2095
01:58:33,720 --> 01:58:36,600
Speaker 1: left and In this case, the soderus moobilizations have been

2096
01:58:36,640 --> 01:58:40,640
Speaker 1: extremely effective. Indeed, writing organizations are often more effective at

2097
01:58:40,720 --> 01:58:45,080
Speaker 1: utilizing dual power tactics and organizations and leftist movements. This

2098
01:58:45,120 --> 01:58:47,840
Speaker 1: is partly because of a fundamental asymmetry between the right

2099
01:58:47,840 --> 01:58:51,640
Speaker 1: and the left. Right wing organizations can almost always depend

2100
01:58:51,680 --> 01:58:55,800
Speaker 1: on financial support from wealthy political backers, who, when push

2101
01:58:55,840 --> 01:58:58,840
Speaker 1: comes to shove, can simply create a movement with pure

2102
01:58:58,840 --> 01:59:02,840
Speaker 1: money as the coax to create the Tea Party. Leftists,

2103
01:59:03,240 --> 01:59:06,760
Speaker 1: the ravings of right wing conspiracy theorists, notwithstanding, have no

2104
01:59:06,840 --> 01:59:10,280
Speaker 1: such backers. This funding and support can go a long

2105
01:59:10,320 --> 01:59:13,360
Speaker 1: way towards explaining the success of groups like Hezbollah. It

2106
01:59:13,480 --> 01:59:16,800
Speaker 1: is certainly true that without Iranian support, Hezbollah would not

2107
01:59:16,800 --> 01:59:18,640
Speaker 1: be the movement that it is today, but a great

2108
01:59:18,640 --> 01:59:22,520
Speaker 1: deal of their success is simply attributable to the tactics themselves.

2109
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:24,800
Speaker 1: This does not escaped the notice of the U. S.

2110
01:59:24,920 --> 01:59:30,360
Speaker 1: Army Joint Special Operations Universities. Major James Love wrote a

2111
01:59:30,360 --> 01:59:34,760
Speaker 1: monograph entitled Hesbllah Social Services a Source of Power. In it,

2112
01:59:35,040 --> 01:59:38,640
Speaker 1: he writes, the most important branch of the Hezbillah organization

2113
01:59:38,840 --> 01:59:42,000
Speaker 1: is a social service section, which can be demonstrated by

2114
01:59:42,000 --> 01:59:45,800
Speaker 1: the allocation of an estimated fifty of Hesbala's two thousand

2115
01:59:45,920 --> 01:59:49,280
Speaker 1: seven budget service efforts. It is through the work of

2116
01:59:49,320 --> 01:59:53,000
Speaker 1: the Social Service Section that all party activities are possible.

2117
01:59:53,680 --> 01:59:57,600
Speaker 1: Hesbalah Social Service Section was designed to influence all aspects

2118
01:59:57,680 --> 02:00:02,200
Speaker 1: of Lebanicia society. The original intent of providing needed services

2119
02:00:02,240 --> 02:00:04,640
Speaker 1: to an oppressed people appears to have been manipulated by

2120
02:00:04,640 --> 02:00:07,760
Speaker 1: Hesbillah as a vehicle to bolster its ranks, provide a

2121
02:00:07,800 --> 02:00:12,440
Speaker 1: humanitarian shield to the organization, increased influence within the Lebanese government,

2122
02:00:12,760 --> 02:00:16,680
Speaker 1: and combat at shier arrival on ball. The Social Service

2123
02:00:16,720 --> 02:00:20,680
Speaker 1: Section serves as an equal arm within the organization and

2124
02:00:20,840 --> 02:00:23,320
Speaker 1: is used as much as the military and political wing

2125
02:00:23,360 --> 02:00:28,480
Speaker 1: in terms of leverage. Hesbillah's Deputy Secretary General describes the

2126
02:00:28,480 --> 02:00:30,800
Speaker 1: purpose and intent of the Social Service Section and the

2127
02:00:30,840 --> 02:00:36,160
Speaker 1: following passage. Hesbellah paid particular attention to social work. Not

2128
02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:38,560
Speaker 1: one aspect of aiding the poor was neglected. As the

2129
02:00:38,600 --> 02:00:43,040
Speaker 1: party work towards achieving joint social responsibility, answering their urgent

2130
02:00:43,120 --> 02:00:48,520
Speaker 1: needs and introducing beneficial programs. Such work was simply considered

2131
02:00:48,560 --> 02:00:52,760
Speaker 1: party duty and concentrated effort towards raising funds and making

2132
02:00:52,800 --> 02:00:57,840
Speaker 1: available social service resources served towards achieving these goals. The

2133
02:00:57,920 --> 02:01:01,520
Speaker 1: party worked the best of its capacities, cooperating with official

2134
02:01:01,560 --> 02:01:06,160
Speaker 1: institutions to respond societal needs. Has Blah's provided medical aid,

2135
02:01:06,240 --> 02:01:10,920
Speaker 1: reconstruction assistance, education programs, and particularly programs that take care

2136
02:01:11,200 --> 02:01:15,080
Speaker 1: of patrons and widows, which have served to solidify their base.

2137
02:01:15,200 --> 02:01:19,160
Speaker 1: These organizations were critical to has Belah's meteoric rise from

2138
02:01:19,160 --> 02:01:22,400
Speaker 1: a political nonentity to arguably the most powerful factuated side

2139
02:01:22,400 --> 02:01:26,360
Speaker 1: of Lepanese politics. Has Belah's state within a state, as

2140
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:29,680
Speaker 1: it's become known, it's capable of even resisting the Israeli Army.

2141
02:01:29,840 --> 02:01:33,000
Speaker 1: Major Love's frustration with the inability of the American Army

2142
02:01:33,120 --> 02:01:36,000
Speaker 1: to either deny has Blah's own aid efforts or replicate

2143
02:01:36,000 --> 02:01:38,640
Speaker 1: them in a way that could strengthen American power are

2144
02:01:38,680 --> 02:01:42,360
Speaker 1: testaments the effectiveness of such a technique and the dangers

2145
02:01:42,360 --> 02:01:45,280
Speaker 1: they posed to the American imperial and state project. One

2146
02:01:45,320 --> 02:01:48,040
Speaker 1: of those Love's major concerns is that American aid programs

2147
02:01:48,040 --> 02:01:50,040
Speaker 1: are simply caught up in red tape. They're unable to

2148
02:01:50,120 --> 02:01:53,960
Speaker 1: respond as fast as community led efforts, which means that

2149
02:01:53,960 --> 02:01:56,760
Speaker 1: those efforts will get off the ground faster, get to

2150
02:01:56,800 --> 02:02:00,400
Speaker 1: the scene faster, and thus route the political of fits.

2151
02:02:00,880 --> 02:02:03,560
Speaker 1: When the state is unwilling or unable to provide services,

2152
02:02:03,840 --> 02:02:06,840
Speaker 1: especially in the wake of disasters, it leaves a power

2153
02:02:06,920 --> 02:02:09,640
Speaker 1: vacuum for organizations to exploit. May not have heard of

2154
02:02:09,680 --> 02:02:13,800
Speaker 1: the RSS before. It's a paramilitary group affiliated with India's

2155
02:02:13,880 --> 02:02:17,600
Speaker 1: ruling party, the b j P, counts among its members

2156
02:02:17,680 --> 02:02:21,840
Speaker 1: India's Prime Minister Modi. It's also probably the world's largest

2157
02:02:21,840 --> 02:02:27,000
Speaker 1: fascist organization. The RSS was founded in a group nominally

2158
02:02:27,040 --> 02:02:31,520
Speaker 1: dedicated to protecting and promoting Hindu interests. What this means

2159
02:02:31,520 --> 02:02:34,520
Speaker 1: in practice is that the RSS is dedicated to creating

2160
02:02:34,520 --> 02:02:37,600
Speaker 1: a Hindu state and maintains and promotes a violent hatred

2161
02:02:37,600 --> 02:02:41,200
Speaker 1: of Muslims. The results in RSS members being at the

2162
02:02:41,240 --> 02:02:44,880
Speaker 1: forefront of anti Muslim programs. The rss IS pre World

2163
02:02:44,880 --> 02:02:47,800
Speaker 1: War Two leaders were open admirers of Hitler and Mussolini,

2164
02:02:48,240 --> 02:02:50,680
Speaker 1: and while they eventually abandoned those positions at the start

2165
02:02:50,680 --> 02:02:54,120
Speaker 1: of World War Two, the rss IS politics have remained

2166
02:02:54,120 --> 02:02:58,000
Speaker 1: thoroughly fascist in the intense communal rioting that both preceded

2167
02:02:58,000 --> 02:03:01,360
Speaker 1: and followed the partition of India and Kistan after independence,

2168
02:03:02,280 --> 02:03:05,640
Speaker 1: which saw mass population transfers of Hindus and Muslims and

2169
02:03:05,680 --> 02:03:07,960
Speaker 1: the death of somewhere between two hundred thousand and two

2170
02:03:08,000 --> 02:03:11,800
Speaker 1: million people. The RSS established itself as a protector of

2171
02:03:11,840 --> 02:03:15,560
Speaker 1: Hindi refugees against Muslim violence, provided protection and aid to

2172
02:03:15,600 --> 02:03:19,800
Speaker 1: those trying to survive the chaos the good world has generated, however,

2173
02:03:20,440 --> 02:03:23,320
Speaker 1: collapse after a former RSS member did the single most

2174
02:03:23,360 --> 02:03:26,160
Speaker 1: famous thing anyone associated with the RSS has ever done,

2175
02:03:26,680 --> 02:03:32,440
Speaker 1: assassinated Gandhi. The RSS was almost immediately banned, but in

2176
02:03:32,560 --> 02:03:34,920
Speaker 1: light of the terrible pr you get when you're associated

2177
02:03:34,920 --> 02:03:39,720
Speaker 1: with killing Gandhi, the RSS became increasingly involved with disaster relief.

2178
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:45,240
Speaker 1: Over half a century of painstaking organizing, it created schools

2179
02:03:45,240 --> 02:03:47,880
Speaker 1: and youth programs to spread its influence and use them

2180
02:03:47,880 --> 02:03:51,880
Speaker 1: to fuel further anti Muslim violence. In two thousand one,

2181
02:03:52,040 --> 02:03:54,840
Speaker 1: the organization gained national acclaim for its response to a

2182
02:03:54,880 --> 02:03:59,960
Speaker 1: massive earthquake and Gunjarat. The RSS heavily emphasized the nondiscriminatory

2183
02:04:00,200 --> 02:04:03,920
Speaker 1: nature of their aid work and their propaganda, but in reality,

2184
02:04:04,200 --> 02:04:07,480
Speaker 1: many of the villages the RS s had rebuilt after

2185
02:04:07,520 --> 02:04:11,560
Speaker 1: the devastation had been transformed into miniature versions of the

2186
02:04:11,560 --> 02:04:14,120
Speaker 1: fabled Hindu state that the RSS seeks to impose on

2187
02:04:14,160 --> 02:04:18,800
Speaker 1: all of India. Strategically, this should look familiar to us now.

2188
02:04:19,200 --> 02:04:23,600
Speaker 1: It's essentially a fascist form of prefigurative politics. The RSS

2189
02:04:23,760 --> 02:04:26,760
Speaker 1: used an earthquake to build the structure of the new

2190
02:04:26,800 --> 02:04:29,400
Speaker 1: Hindu society in the shell of the old. The b

2191
02:04:29,520 --> 02:04:32,800
Speaker 1: JP's dominance over Indian politics while led by a member

2192
02:04:32,800 --> 02:04:36,040
Speaker 1: of the RSS, and the brutal crackdowns body carried out

2193
02:04:36,040 --> 02:04:40,160
Speaker 1: in Kashmir our bloody testament to the success of their strategy.

2194
02:04:40,720 --> 02:04:45,520
Speaker 1: Christian fundamentalist organizations have also been extremely effective and utilizing

2195
02:04:45,560 --> 02:04:49,120
Speaker 1: their own form of right wing prefigurative politics, so in

2196
02:04:49,120 --> 02:04:52,400
Speaker 1: a somewhat different way. In the RSS, their new world

2197
02:04:52,480 --> 02:04:57,680
Speaker 1: is defined above all by theocratic patriarchal authoritarianism. Like the

2198
02:04:57,760 --> 02:05:00,640
Speaker 1: radicals that occupy, the religious right was operating off of

2199
02:05:00,640 --> 02:05:03,600
Speaker 1: a form of contagion theory, theory that exposure to their

2200
02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:07,280
Speaker 1: social organizations and forms would essentially be contagious and spread,

2201
02:05:07,600 --> 02:05:11,839
Speaker 1: but the Christian rights preferred form as the patriarchal family,

2202
02:05:12,200 --> 02:05:15,840
Speaker 1: which serves as a microcosm of the kind of hierarchy

2203
02:05:15,920 --> 02:05:21,200
Speaker 1: and patriarchal violence that dominate their long dreamed of theocratic society.

2204
02:05:21,720 --> 02:05:24,640
Speaker 1: The Christian right would instill these values into their children

2205
02:05:24,640 --> 02:05:28,160
Speaker 1: and send them off into the world to propagate their ideology. Ettinger,

2206
02:05:28,320 --> 02:05:31,080
Speaker 1: an expert on the Christian right, wrote this about the

2207
02:05:31,080 --> 02:05:36,160
Speaker 1: second phase of the strategy. In nineteen, several church leaders

2208
02:05:36,160 --> 02:05:39,360
Speaker 1: came up with a new approach, identifying seven spheres of

2209
02:05:39,400 --> 02:05:42,400
Speaker 1: culture to focus on one after another. They try to

2210
02:05:42,440 --> 02:05:45,640
Speaker 1: bring about the lasting change and have a significant impact

2211
02:05:45,680 --> 02:05:50,320
Speaker 1: on the superstructure of American culture. Lauren Cunningham, founder of

2212
02:05:50,360 --> 02:05:54,720
Speaker 1: Youth with the Mission, a Christian missionary group coordinating international

2213
02:05:54,760 --> 02:05:58,560
Speaker 1: and national mission churchs for young Christians, describes these seven

2214
02:05:58,600 --> 02:06:01,720
Speaker 1: areas as such, these are the areas you can go

2215
02:06:01,800 --> 02:06:06,320
Speaker 1: on as missionaries. Here they are first, it's the institution

2216
02:06:06,360 --> 02:06:10,200
Speaker 1: set up by God. First the family. After the family

2217
02:06:10,320 --> 02:06:14,040
Speaker 1: was the church or the people of God. The third

2218
02:06:14,400 --> 02:06:17,760
Speaker 1: was the area of school or education. The fourth was

2219
02:06:17,880 --> 02:06:23,120
Speaker 1: media public communication in all forms printed and electronic. The

2220
02:06:23,160 --> 02:06:27,280
Speaker 1: fifth was what I call celebration, the arts, entertainment, sports,

2221
02:06:27,720 --> 02:06:30,640
Speaker 1: where you celebrate within a culture. The sixth would be

2222
02:06:30,680 --> 02:06:34,080
Speaker 1: the whole area of the economy, which starts with innovation

2223
02:06:34,120 --> 02:06:39,000
Speaker 1: and science and technology, productivity, sales, and service. The whole

2224
02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:43,200
Speaker 1: area we often call it business, but we leave out something.

2225
02:06:43,800 --> 02:06:46,600
Speaker 1: We leave out the scientific part which actually raises the

2226
02:06:46,640 --> 02:06:50,080
Speaker 1: wealth of the world, anything new like making sand and

2227
02:06:50,160 --> 02:06:53,240
Speaker 1: chips for a microchip that increases wealth in the world.

2228
02:06:53,800 --> 02:06:57,440
Speaker 1: And then of course prediction, sales and service helps to

2229
02:06:57,480 --> 02:07:00,680
Speaker 1: spread the wealth. And so the last area was the

2230
02:07:00,720 --> 02:07:04,720
Speaker 1: area of governments. This is a need encapsulation of the

2231
02:07:04,800 --> 02:07:09,040
Speaker 1: rights p Refigurative politics start first with the family, and

2232
02:07:09,080 --> 02:07:12,800
Speaker 1: then with the church, then reshaped school and education and

2233
02:07:12,880 --> 02:07:15,280
Speaker 1: mass media in their image, and from there you can

2234
02:07:15,280 --> 02:07:18,240
Speaker 1: begin to take the entire economy. Churches have also long

2235
02:07:18,360 --> 02:07:22,919
Speaker 1: used aid programs to proselytize and also expand their control

2236
02:07:22,960 --> 02:07:26,320
Speaker 1: over the population, which becomes dependent on their aid. In

2237
02:07:26,360 --> 02:07:28,400
Speaker 1: the places where the left has failed to provide for

2238
02:07:28,440 --> 02:07:31,720
Speaker 1: their community, the far right has stepped in and has

2239
02:07:31,760 --> 02:07:35,280
Speaker 1: been able to rapidly and effectively reshape the political landscape.

2240
02:07:36,040 --> 02:07:39,440
Speaker 1: This does not mean, however, that they can't be beaten.

2241
02:07:39,960 --> 02:07:42,920
Speaker 1: Cooperation Jackson has offered one of the most powerful visions

2242
02:07:42,920 --> 02:07:46,480
Speaker 1: of dual power in the modern US. A product of

2243
02:07:46,560 --> 02:07:50,400
Speaker 1: the New African People's Organization and the Malcolm ex grassroots movements,

2244
02:07:50,480 --> 02:07:54,520
Speaker 1: Jackson Cush Plan. Cooperation Jackson has put forward a radical

2245
02:07:54,600 --> 02:07:56,960
Speaker 1: and democratic bottle of dual power, with the aim of

2246
02:07:57,000 --> 02:07:59,520
Speaker 1: turning over control of the land and the means that

2247
02:07:59,560 --> 02:08:02,360
Speaker 1: products into Jackson's black working class and allowing it to

2248
02:08:02,360 --> 02:08:06,760
Speaker 1: achieve its own self determination. Corporation Jackson has formed mutual

2249
02:08:06,800 --> 02:08:10,400
Speaker 1: aid networks, started an incubated program to help workers corroperatives

2250
02:08:10,400 --> 02:08:13,200
Speaker 1: get off the ground, and formed a community land trust

2251
02:08:13,280 --> 02:08:15,880
Speaker 1: that purchases abandoned buildings in Jackson it turns them over

2252
02:08:15,920 --> 02:08:19,960
Speaker 1: to the community. They've also somewhat unusually wound up engaged

2253
02:08:19,960 --> 02:08:23,040
Speaker 1: in the electoral process after the untimely death of Ally

2254
02:08:23,080 --> 02:08:25,720
Speaker 1: and Jackson Mayor Choqua La Boomba, which led to the

2255
02:08:25,800 --> 02:08:29,640
Speaker 1: election of his son, Choquant La Bomba. This placed the

2256
02:08:29,680 --> 02:08:32,720
Speaker 1: movement in a somewhat awkward position of having allies, even

2257
02:08:32,760 --> 02:08:35,520
Speaker 1: if constrained by the realities of state power in the

2258
02:08:35,560 --> 02:08:40,480
Speaker 1: state itself. But politics in the real world is never

2259
02:08:40,520 --> 02:08:44,240
Speaker 1: as clean as the models we create to describe it.

2260
02:08:44,240 --> 02:08:47,240
Speaker 1: It is only in our ability to adapt the changing

2261
02:08:47,280 --> 02:08:50,920
Speaker 1: conditions of struggle while maintaining our political principles that we

2262
02:08:50,960 --> 02:08:53,080
Speaker 1: can build the new world in the shell of the old,

2263
02:08:54,240 --> 02:08:58,680
Speaker 1: and we can build it. The question is simply, will

2264
02:08:58,720 --> 02:09:18,160
Speaker 1: we uh well that wasn't very good. I'm Robert Evans,

2265
02:09:18,600 --> 02:09:21,840
Speaker 1: host of the podcast you're listening to, and ashamed of,

2266
02:09:21,920 --> 02:09:26,280
Speaker 1: probably because that was Jesus Christ. Garrison. Come in here,

2267
02:09:28,440 --> 02:09:33,920
Speaker 1: fix this this Scarrison, Um, this is it could happen

2268
02:09:34,000 --> 02:09:36,160
Speaker 1: here a podcast about the fact that the world was

2269
02:09:36,200 --> 02:09:39,960
Speaker 1: folding apart, as embodied by me falling apart. When I

2270
02:09:40,000 --> 02:09:42,960
Speaker 1: try to introduce the show, see I tied it in. Yeah,

2271
02:09:43,080 --> 02:09:47,960
Speaker 1: good job, thank you, thank you. Well it is it is.

2272
02:09:48,000 --> 02:09:49,880
Speaker 1: It has to rhyme. It's like it's like the Star

2273
02:09:49,920 --> 02:09:54,040
Speaker 1: Wars movies. That's what I was doing. Our guest today

2274
02:09:54,160 --> 02:09:57,720
Speaker 1: is Melissa A sidera founder and director of Polo's Pantry,

2275
02:09:58,000 --> 02:10:03,240
Speaker 1: a mutual aid food distribution project in Los Angeles, California.

2276
02:10:03,360 --> 02:10:06,240
Speaker 1: A Melissa, thank you for coming on and talking to us.

2277
02:10:07,440 --> 02:10:09,520
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm pleasure to

2278
02:10:09,520 --> 02:10:13,640
Speaker 1: be here. I apologize for the introduction, but I honestly

2279
02:10:13,720 --> 02:10:16,240
Speaker 1: it's better. It was better than I usually do, so

2280
02:10:16,280 --> 02:10:20,480
Speaker 1: if you can back that up. Yes, okay. So I'm

2281
02:10:20,560 --> 02:10:24,160
Speaker 1: an l A native, and um, I've been doing community

2282
02:10:24,200 --> 02:10:28,600
Speaker 1: organizing for probably like close to a decade, doing a

2283
02:10:28,640 --> 02:10:30,760
Speaker 1: lot of community work for a lot of time, and

2284
02:10:31,320 --> 02:10:33,880
Speaker 1: a few years before the pandemic. Actually, I started to

2285
02:10:34,000 --> 02:10:38,920
Speaker 1: organize with a lot of grassroots organizations in l A,

2286
02:10:39,600 --> 02:10:42,240
Speaker 1: working with a lot of house less folks UM all

2287
02:10:42,280 --> 02:10:46,840
Speaker 1: over l A, and kind of clock pretty early that

2288
02:10:47,040 --> 02:10:48,520
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, a lot of a lot of

2289
02:10:48,560 --> 02:10:52,240
Speaker 1: groups were burning through their budgets spending it on food.

2290
02:10:53,560 --> 02:10:58,040
Speaker 1: And so since I worked in kind of the food industry,

2291
02:10:58,320 --> 02:11:01,840
Speaker 1: I started to kind of poke around and figure out

2292
02:11:02,400 --> 02:11:04,480
Speaker 1: that we could get a lot of these things donated

2293
02:11:04,520 --> 02:11:08,480
Speaker 1: to us UM and pretty much started building a roster

2294
02:11:08,760 --> 02:11:14,000
Speaker 1: like building, kind of like a rulodex of UM other organizations,

2295
02:11:14,080 --> 02:11:17,560
Speaker 1: non profits, UM, food banks that we could rely on.

2296
02:11:18,400 --> 02:11:20,960
Speaker 1: So almost kind of created sort of like an altera

2297
02:11:21,360 --> 02:11:26,720
Speaker 1: system UM for these groups who are working with houseless

2298
02:11:26,720 --> 02:11:30,440
Speaker 1: folks to get food every week. UM. I just wanted

2299
02:11:30,480 --> 02:11:33,240
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to make a steady and

2300
02:11:33,240 --> 02:11:36,560
Speaker 1: the reliable system so that our own house neighbors would

2301
02:11:36,560 --> 02:11:39,640
Speaker 1: get food and that organizers across the l A wouldn't

2302
02:11:39,640 --> 02:11:41,760
Speaker 1: have to worry about it. And so that's pretty much

2303
02:11:42,360 --> 02:11:47,560
Speaker 1: how POLO started. Officially started in two thousand eighteen. I

2304
02:11:47,640 --> 02:11:52,160
Speaker 1: was organizing with a group called Caton for All and UH,

2305
02:11:52,240 --> 02:11:55,240
Speaker 1: they do a lot of political advocacy and mostly rooted

2306
02:11:55,280 --> 02:11:58,680
Speaker 1: in like, um kind of you know, human rights for

2307
02:11:58,720 --> 02:12:02,160
Speaker 1: our houses, neighbors. If you don't know, kaytime for all.

2308
02:12:02,200 --> 02:12:07,800
Speaker 1: Look them up. They're awesome, follow them fantastic. Yeah, And

2309
02:12:07,840 --> 02:12:11,640
Speaker 1: you know, I actually was because I was already doing

2310
02:12:11,680 --> 02:12:15,480
Speaker 1: a lot of mutual aid work in skid Row around

2311
02:12:15,520 --> 02:12:19,720
Speaker 1: that time and really kind of felt at some point,

2312
02:12:20,280 --> 02:12:23,480
Speaker 1: um that you know, like, yes, it was great that

2313
02:12:23,560 --> 02:12:26,680
Speaker 1: I was going out there with teams getting hot meals

2314
02:12:26,720 --> 02:12:30,160
Speaker 1: out and hot beverages whatever people needed to people, but

2315
02:12:31,120 --> 02:12:33,680
Speaker 1: I just was so down on what the conditions, seeing

2316
02:12:33,680 --> 02:12:35,920
Speaker 1: all the conditions that they were living in, and I

2317
02:12:36,040 --> 02:12:39,720
Speaker 1: just wanted to meet other activists and other folks um

2318
02:12:39,760 --> 02:12:42,960
Speaker 1: who could really figure out how you connect people to

2319
02:12:43,040 --> 02:12:46,840
Speaker 1: services and and just really you know, anyone working in

2320
02:12:46,880 --> 02:12:49,800
Speaker 1: policy that's that's really changing things for people out there.

2321
02:12:49,800 --> 02:12:52,960
Speaker 1: And so I wanted to take sort of my advocacy

2322
02:12:53,000 --> 02:12:55,720
Speaker 1: and like my work a step further and connected with

2323
02:12:55,760 --> 02:12:57,960
Speaker 1: activists all the railway and so that's sort of like

2324
02:12:58,000 --> 02:13:03,640
Speaker 1: my organs really rooted lot of activism and organizing. So

2325
02:13:03,840 --> 02:13:05,760
Speaker 1: I see I see a lot of I'm not sort

2326
02:13:05,800 --> 02:13:10,160
Speaker 1: of your standard kind of or nonprofit I really see

2327
02:13:10,160 --> 02:13:12,640
Speaker 1: things in the lens and as a community organizer, and

2328
02:13:12,720 --> 02:13:17,920
Speaker 1: so that's why our our work pretty much exploded during COVID.

2329
02:13:18,280 --> 02:13:21,640
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of interested for for starters because you're

2330
02:13:21,680 --> 02:13:25,080
Speaker 1: you're you know, this is um a mutual aid project

2331
02:13:25,080 --> 02:13:27,160
Speaker 1: as opposed to kind of a charity project, and what

2332
02:13:27,200 --> 02:13:29,839
Speaker 1: do you what do you see as being the dividing

2333
02:13:29,880 --> 02:13:34,200
Speaker 1: line there? Well, for you know, for a lot of

2334
02:13:34,600 --> 02:13:37,520
Speaker 1: for us, you know, it's very easy for for folks

2335
02:13:37,520 --> 02:13:39,600
Speaker 1: to kind of see the work that we do as

2336
02:13:39,640 --> 02:13:42,400
Speaker 1: part of the kind of charitable food system because obviously

2337
02:13:42,440 --> 02:13:47,440
Speaker 1: we're you know, UM mutual aid. It's the difference really

2338
02:13:47,520 --> 02:13:51,680
Speaker 1: is that obviously, UM, you know, there there's a there's

2339
02:13:51,760 --> 02:13:57,120
Speaker 1: a reciprocity between the two of you, UM, between between neighborhoods,

2340
02:13:57,560 --> 02:14:02,360
Speaker 1: between individuals, between organizations of sharing resources with each other,

2341
02:14:03,280 --> 02:14:07,400
Speaker 1: UM and charitable obviously is that there's only one way, right,

2342
02:14:07,400 --> 02:14:12,000
Speaker 1: there's only like one person giving. But for us, UM,

2343
02:14:12,160 --> 02:14:15,480
Speaker 1: the way we picked our partners, I mean, you're you're

2344
02:14:15,600 --> 02:14:19,880
Speaker 1: ready part of this nucleus of kind of a coalition

2345
02:14:20,000 --> 02:14:22,880
Speaker 1: of or doing this work. So it was just really

2346
02:14:23,080 --> 02:14:25,720
Speaker 1: very easy for us to kind of share resources with

2347
02:14:25,760 --> 02:14:28,240
Speaker 1: each other. So I was doing food and some folks

2348
02:14:28,280 --> 02:14:32,080
Speaker 1: were doing hygiene kits, other folks were doing tents, other

2349
02:14:32,200 --> 02:14:35,120
Speaker 1: folks were doing types or whatever, and so there was

2350
02:14:35,240 --> 02:14:40,040
Speaker 1: so much you know, kind of mutualid and activity going on.

2351
02:14:40,160 --> 02:14:42,360
Speaker 1: And so that that's why we're we're really kind of

2352
02:14:42,400 --> 02:14:46,280
Speaker 1: rooted in that comment that thinking as far as as

2353
02:14:46,320 --> 02:14:50,760
Speaker 1: opposed to charitable ors that basically just set up somewhere

2354
02:14:50,760 --> 02:14:53,440
Speaker 1: and give, you know, give give stuff out to people.

2355
02:14:54,320 --> 02:14:57,880
Speaker 1: And so we have look in part and part of

2356
02:14:57,880 --> 02:15:01,520
Speaker 1: my advisory circle are a lot of houseless neighbors UM

2357
02:15:01,640 --> 02:15:05,880
Speaker 1: houses leaders in our community. UM. I also take a

2358
02:15:05,880 --> 02:15:12,320
Speaker 1: lot of advice from UM Indigenous organizers UM black community

2359
02:15:12,360 --> 02:15:16,000
Speaker 1: leaders in different neighborhoods that we work in. So our

2360
02:15:16,040 --> 02:15:18,360
Speaker 1: work is really informed by the community. And so we

2361
02:15:18,480 --> 02:15:20,560
Speaker 1: basically asked folks, hey, you know, like, what can we

2362
02:15:20,600 --> 02:15:26,280
Speaker 1: do UM and plug into to work that UM that

2363
02:15:26,360 --> 02:15:29,480
Speaker 1: already exists in those in those areas. I hope, I

2364
02:15:29,520 --> 02:15:32,920
Speaker 1: hope that makes sense. But that's kind of how I

2365
02:15:32,960 --> 02:15:36,560
Speaker 1: feel about what we do. And and as an as

2366
02:15:36,600 --> 02:15:38,320
Speaker 1: an organizer, because I think we get a lot of

2367
02:15:38,360 --> 02:15:41,320
Speaker 1: questions from people who are interested in starting mutual aid

2368
02:15:41,400 --> 02:15:44,680
Speaker 1: projects in their own areas. And one of the questions

2369
02:15:44,680 --> 02:15:45,920
Speaker 1: we often have It is like, well how do I

2370
02:15:46,200 --> 02:15:49,960
Speaker 1: how do I do that? Right? UM? And Yeah, I'm

2371
02:15:50,000 --> 02:15:52,920
Speaker 1: interested in like like if you could kind of walk

2372
02:15:53,000 --> 02:15:55,760
Speaker 1: us through the steps when when Polo's pantry got started,

2373
02:15:55,800 --> 02:15:57,520
Speaker 1: Like what is what was the kind of order of

2374
02:15:57,560 --> 02:15:59,720
Speaker 1: operations that you had to go through to get this

2375
02:15:59,720 --> 02:16:01,960
Speaker 1: this been running? I think the first thing to do

2376
02:16:02,080 --> 02:16:05,000
Speaker 1: is really too For me, it was already kind of

2377
02:16:05,320 --> 02:16:08,560
Speaker 1: being part of grassroots UM or so I was part

2378
02:16:08,560 --> 02:16:12,280
Speaker 1: of a few of them UM and so it's really

2379
02:16:12,320 --> 02:16:17,200
Speaker 1: important to UM to kind of identify the needs of

2380
02:16:17,240 --> 02:16:21,080
Speaker 1: a community first before setting up your organs. So I

2381
02:16:21,120 --> 02:16:24,200
Speaker 1: feel like I already had an idea of you know,

2382
02:16:24,280 --> 02:16:27,960
Speaker 1: of of what certain orcs needed, UM which areas, how

2383
02:16:28,000 --> 02:16:31,840
Speaker 1: many and so kind of identifying the needs first kind

2384
02:16:31,840 --> 02:16:35,600
Speaker 1: of UM number one. And and to do that you

2385
02:16:35,680 --> 02:16:38,720
Speaker 1: really have to connect with the grassroots organizations, local ones

2386
02:16:39,200 --> 02:16:42,120
Speaker 1: in your area. So you know, I recommend really just

2387
02:16:42,200 --> 02:16:44,480
Speaker 1: kind of doing researchers. Always folks doing that kind of

2388
02:16:44,480 --> 02:16:47,959
Speaker 1: stuff all over. If you're into political advocacy, there's folks

2389
02:16:47,959 --> 02:16:51,080
Speaker 1: that do that with their folks who are more food

2390
02:16:51,080 --> 02:16:54,080
Speaker 1: justice oriented, Like I would recommend going to a local

2391
02:16:54,120 --> 02:16:58,080
Speaker 1: food bank or sup kitchens to have also, Like I've

2392
02:16:58,080 --> 02:16:59,800
Speaker 1: been doing that for years and I've met a lot

2393
02:16:59,800 --> 02:17:03,480
Speaker 1: of people UM with kind of similar values mine UM,

2394
02:17:03,520 --> 02:17:07,760
Speaker 1: so just kind of pretty much identify one what you'd

2395
02:17:07,800 --> 02:17:11,119
Speaker 1: like to do, what you're good at UM, and then

2396
02:17:11,560 --> 02:17:15,800
Speaker 1: essentially research UM, you know, kind of opportunities to tap

2397
02:17:15,840 --> 02:17:20,439
Speaker 1: into a local organ doing that work and then essentially

2398
02:17:20,600 --> 02:17:23,480
Speaker 1: start organizing with them. Right. I don't I don't recommend

2399
02:17:23,520 --> 02:17:27,640
Speaker 1: to build like to build an order prior to not

2400
02:17:27,800 --> 02:17:30,560
Speaker 1: having this kind of knowledge, because I feel like it's

2401
02:17:30,640 --> 02:17:35,680
Speaker 1: really crucial to sort of kind of map out first

2402
02:17:36,000 --> 02:17:40,200
Speaker 1: what the community needs instead of you building mutual aid

2403
02:17:40,320 --> 02:17:44,200
Speaker 1: organization based on you know whatever, because I feel like

2404
02:17:44,200 --> 02:17:47,160
Speaker 1: it's it's important to work through things from the ground

2405
02:17:47,200 --> 02:17:50,920
Speaker 1: up UM. That way, you feel like the work is impactful.

2406
02:17:51,600 --> 02:17:56,240
Speaker 1: That way, the community is leading and informing your work.

2407
02:17:56,280 --> 02:17:58,400
Speaker 1: And so that's that's kind of like how I I

2408
02:17:58,440 --> 02:18:02,440
Speaker 1: approached MINE. So look for a local org so kind

2409
02:18:02,440 --> 02:18:05,360
Speaker 1: of sit and organizing for a little bit, and then

2410
02:18:06,080 --> 02:18:10,280
Speaker 1: from there, once you guys identify what it is UM

2411
02:18:10,360 --> 02:18:12,520
Speaker 1: and start to kind of have an idea of the

2412
02:18:12,520 --> 02:18:16,640
Speaker 1: demand or the need in that area, then start to

2413
02:18:17,360 --> 02:18:21,480
Speaker 1: reach out to say, for me, for for food. A

2414
02:18:21,520 --> 02:18:26,640
Speaker 1: lot of local, um, local chains will well well pretty

2415
02:18:26,720 --> 02:18:30,440
Speaker 1: much if you if you tell them what you're doing, um,

2416
02:18:30,480 --> 02:18:32,280
Speaker 1: a lot of them will support you. So I actually

2417
02:18:32,280 --> 02:18:34,960
Speaker 1: have I started with just going literally to my local

2418
02:18:35,000 --> 02:18:38,200
Speaker 1: Ralphs and telling the manager. They're like, hey, this is

2419
02:18:38,240 --> 02:18:40,720
Speaker 1: what I'm doing, I'm starting this or you know, it

2420
02:18:40,879 --> 02:18:44,920
Speaker 1: wasn't Ralph's being a local grocery store in Likes Angeles area.

2421
02:18:45,440 --> 02:18:47,800
Speaker 1: A lot of I didn't know what Ralph's was before

2422
02:18:47,800 --> 02:18:49,320
Speaker 1: I moved to l A. So I just wanted to

2423
02:18:49,360 --> 02:18:51,039
Speaker 1: be like, she's not just like rolling over to where

2424
02:18:51,040 --> 02:18:55,840
Speaker 1: buddy Ralph's house, like, I guess you've got some food? Yeah? Sorry, yeah,

2425
02:18:55,879 --> 02:18:59,000
Speaker 1: so that Ralph's out here in l A. So most

2426
02:18:59,040 --> 02:19:03,039
Speaker 1: places yeah more or less, yeah, yeah and will more

2427
02:19:03,080 --> 02:19:05,360
Speaker 1: folks said, not everyone is down for that kind of stuff,

2428
02:19:05,400 --> 02:19:07,879
Speaker 1: but somehow you'll you'll really end up on one that's

2429
02:19:07,920 --> 02:19:11,120
Speaker 1: really you know, that is really unkind. I think most

2430
02:19:11,160 --> 02:19:13,640
Speaker 1: folks have to realize that this this this kind of

2431
02:19:13,680 --> 02:19:18,200
Speaker 1: work is not it didn't happen overnight like building like

2432
02:19:18,280 --> 02:19:22,000
Speaker 1: building uh, you know, like a reliable network of people

2433
02:19:22,080 --> 02:19:27,119
Speaker 1: to donate to you is. It takes time. So but

2434
02:19:27,160 --> 02:19:30,600
Speaker 1: I think if if you hit kind of larger chains,

2435
02:19:30,920 --> 02:19:33,480
Speaker 1: you will get UM, you know, you'll you'll you'll get

2436
02:19:33,640 --> 02:19:36,400
Speaker 1: you'll start to get a steady supply from them. Do

2437
02:19:36,440 --> 02:19:39,000
Speaker 1: you have any kind of advice for UM when you're

2438
02:19:39,000 --> 02:19:42,199
Speaker 1: actually approaching you know, manager at Ralph's or something, somebody

2439
02:19:42,520 --> 02:19:44,480
Speaker 1: who works for Like, what do you have like I

2440
02:19:44,520 --> 02:19:46,520
Speaker 1: don't know, like a script kind of a rough guy

2441
02:19:46,560 --> 02:19:49,360
Speaker 1: to like here's how I try to start these conversations here.

2442
02:19:49,440 --> 02:19:51,120
Speaker 1: Some ways I try to phrase for things because that

2443
02:19:51,120 --> 02:19:53,600
Speaker 1: could be useful for folks. You know, I actually have

2444
02:19:53,760 --> 02:19:56,320
Speaker 1: like a form letters I could share later. Maybe you

2445
02:19:56,320 --> 02:19:59,800
Speaker 1: can show, Yeah, that would be great, UM that you

2446
02:19:59,800 --> 02:20:02,120
Speaker 1: know that they can use to UM you know, if

2447
02:20:02,120 --> 02:20:06,400
Speaker 1: they're if they're going to UM solicit folks with that stuff.

2448
02:20:06,440 --> 02:20:08,680
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of mutual aid organizations to

2449
02:20:08,879 --> 02:20:12,000
Speaker 1: have that kind of UM kind of literature, that kind

2450
02:20:12,000 --> 02:20:16,880
Speaker 1: of form, so UM, I think just basically kind of

2451
02:20:16,920 --> 02:20:19,879
Speaker 1: letting them know who you are, who you're serving, UM,

2452
02:20:19,879 --> 02:20:26,280
Speaker 1: how often which demographic is going to that's usually really important. UM.

2453
02:20:26,440 --> 02:20:30,200
Speaker 1: What what helped me though, was I was as I

2454
02:20:30,240 --> 02:20:33,119
Speaker 1: started to get more serious about about doing the food work,

2455
02:20:33,560 --> 02:20:36,800
Speaker 1: I connected to you know, some some community partners, and

2456
02:20:36,879 --> 02:20:41,600
Speaker 1: I actually UM turned Polos into a fiscally sponsored organ

2457
02:20:41,760 --> 02:20:44,560
Speaker 1: so we moved from being just fully grassroots to being

2458
02:20:44,600 --> 02:20:49,480
Speaker 1: fiscally sponsored. That basically means we're operating under the five

2459
02:20:49,640 --> 02:20:53,400
Speaker 1: one C three number of another organization of a larger organization.

2460
02:20:54,080 --> 02:20:57,440
Speaker 1: So that that was that open so so many opportunities

2461
02:20:57,440 --> 02:20:59,480
Speaker 1: for us. It really allowed us to be able to

2462
02:20:59,520 --> 02:21:03,480
Speaker 1: access larger amounts of food and really help out a

2463
02:21:03,520 --> 02:21:06,120
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of a lot of smaller organs

2464
02:21:06,480 --> 02:21:08,800
Speaker 1: that needed to get their food programs off the ground.

2465
02:21:09,680 --> 02:21:13,400
Speaker 1: And so UM that is something I recommend if you're

2466
02:21:13,440 --> 02:21:17,240
Speaker 1: if people are serious about it, to define a community

2467
02:21:17,280 --> 02:21:20,640
Speaker 1: of community partner who who isn't established five one C

2468
02:21:20,840 --> 02:21:25,119
Speaker 1: three that they trust UM to see if they if

2469
02:21:25,120 --> 02:21:26,920
Speaker 1: they you know, if they can sign on to to

2470
02:21:27,080 --> 02:21:30,600
Speaker 1: be a physical sponsor UM. That I think is one

2471
02:21:30,600 --> 02:21:33,240
Speaker 1: of the quickest ways to be able to UM to

2472
02:21:33,360 --> 02:21:37,720
Speaker 1: really kind of establish yourself as as far as getting

2473
02:21:37,879 --> 02:21:40,840
Speaker 1: larger amounts of food then, and by that I mean

2474
02:21:40,959 --> 02:21:44,320
Speaker 1: getting pallets of food, not just cases, but literally palettes

2475
02:21:44,320 --> 02:21:48,240
Speaker 1: of food delivered to wherever you are. As soon as

2476
02:21:48,240 --> 02:21:51,760
Speaker 1: we did that, that completely changed the game UM. And

2477
02:21:51,760 --> 02:21:54,160
Speaker 1: and I think I did that because I knew I

2478
02:21:54,200 --> 02:21:57,039
Speaker 1: had so many friends who were doing mutual aid that

2479
02:21:57,200 --> 02:22:01,480
Speaker 1: needed so you know, just so much stuff from groceries

2480
02:22:01,560 --> 02:22:05,840
Speaker 1: to um, you know, fresh produce, and it wasn't and

2481
02:22:05,879 --> 02:22:08,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't you know, it didn't stop. And food we

2482
02:22:08,200 --> 02:22:12,080
Speaker 1: were getting you know, hand sanitizer, we were getting tense,

2483
02:22:12,240 --> 02:22:14,360
Speaker 1: we were getting all sorts of stuff, you know, and

2484
02:22:14,440 --> 02:22:18,600
Speaker 1: so um. So yeah, that's what I recommend for folks

2485
02:22:18,600 --> 02:22:22,800
Speaker 1: were serious about food is to really again start to

2486
02:22:22,879 --> 02:22:27,760
Speaker 1: build a relationship with local businesses, um that they that

2487
02:22:27,800 --> 02:22:31,640
Speaker 1: they like food businesses, and really telling people this is

2488
02:22:31,680 --> 02:22:34,119
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. If you're if you know, if you're

2489
02:22:34,160 --> 02:22:37,120
Speaker 1: if you're you know, if you are, what support us?

2490
02:22:37,200 --> 02:22:40,320
Speaker 1: You know, like this is um, you know, these are

2491
02:22:40,560 --> 02:22:42,840
Speaker 1: these are the days that we need food or whatever,

2492
02:22:42,920 --> 02:22:45,400
Speaker 1: or these are the times that we'll need food and

2493
02:22:45,440 --> 02:22:47,279
Speaker 1: just let them know that you know, you're you're happy

2494
02:22:47,320 --> 02:22:51,440
Speaker 1: to pick it up or that you're happy to because

2495
02:22:51,520 --> 02:22:55,520
Speaker 1: there's there's I think, at least for California, we're starting

2496
02:22:55,560 --> 02:22:59,560
Speaker 1: to change law, like policy and law behind food waste,

2497
02:23:00,120 --> 02:23:02,280
Speaker 1: and so I think, um, something's going to change. In

2498
02:23:02,440 --> 02:23:07,120
Speaker 1: January of two, where a lot of food waste basically

2499
02:23:07,160 --> 02:23:11,279
Speaker 1: going to decrease because it's going to be much more difficult.

2500
02:23:11,320 --> 02:23:13,000
Speaker 1: The city is going to make it much more difficult

2501
02:23:13,080 --> 02:23:17,240
Speaker 1: for for businesses to just carry this stuff. Um they're

2502
02:23:17,280 --> 02:23:21,959
Speaker 1: they're really pushing them to uh um to separate them.

2503
02:23:22,000 --> 02:23:27,000
Speaker 1: But anyway, regardless, you're helping the business really UM move,

2504
02:23:27,120 --> 02:23:30,279
Speaker 1: you know, move food waste, and and most of them

2505
02:23:30,320 --> 02:23:32,400
Speaker 1: and a lot of employees too that I've talked to

2506
02:23:33,320 --> 02:23:36,040
Speaker 1: UM just you know, just our heart work. And every

2507
02:23:36,080 --> 02:23:38,640
Speaker 1: time they have to clear out you know, a full

2508
02:23:39,480 --> 02:23:42,000
Speaker 1: full tray or just trays of trays of of of

2509
02:23:42,200 --> 02:23:45,800
Speaker 1: of a perfectly fine food. So yeah, there's there's a

2510
02:23:45,879 --> 02:23:49,640
Speaker 1: video going viral on Twitter right now of of like

2511
02:23:49,680 --> 02:23:52,320
Speaker 1: someone working at Dunking Donuts and just like dumping just

2512
02:23:52,440 --> 02:23:57,160
Speaker 1: like hundreds and hundreds of donuts into the garbage. And

2513
02:23:57,160 --> 02:23:59,800
Speaker 1: then that happens. That happens every single day. You know.

2514
02:24:00,080 --> 02:24:02,120
Speaker 1: I have I have friends who used to work on

2515
02:24:02,200 --> 02:24:04,800
Speaker 1: Whole Foods and they would tell me just just how

2516
02:24:04,840 --> 02:24:08,800
Speaker 1: heartbreaking it was, just the amount, just the massive amount

2517
02:24:08,840 --> 02:24:11,360
Speaker 1: of that's being wasted. Yeah, it's evil, it's it's it's

2518
02:24:11,360 --> 02:24:14,160
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's it's it's a thing that in

2519
02:24:14,200 --> 02:24:17,720
Speaker 1: the more difficult days ahead as you know, things like

2520
02:24:17,760 --> 02:24:20,480
Speaker 1: well like we under in a lot of areas, like

2521
02:24:20,920 --> 02:24:23,120
Speaker 1: the crop was half of what it normally is this year.

2522
02:24:23,640 --> 02:24:25,520
Speaker 1: That's going to continue. One day we will look at

2523
02:24:25,600 --> 02:24:31,520
Speaker 1: videos of Dunkin Donuts dropping an entire day's worth of

2524
02:24:31,560 --> 02:24:34,640
Speaker 1: donuts into the trash and use it as a pretext

2525
02:24:34,680 --> 02:24:37,880
Speaker 1: to bring executives to trial. And it's going to be

2526
02:24:37,959 --> 02:24:41,959
Speaker 1: like like like a war crime. Yeah is I mean,

2527
02:24:42,000 --> 02:24:45,480
Speaker 1: I mean honestly though, as someone in food, um, you know,

2528
02:24:45,640 --> 02:24:49,440
Speaker 1: like the food system is changing massively in so many ways.

2529
02:24:49,520 --> 02:24:51,640
Speaker 1: I feel like the one kind of good thing that

2530
02:24:51,680 --> 02:24:55,440
Speaker 1: happened in the pandemic is that lawmakers were able to

2531
02:24:55,480 --> 02:25:00,720
Speaker 1: identify that the White Snap or cal Fresh pretty much

2532
02:25:00,720 --> 02:25:04,800
Speaker 1: food stamps were not enough really to um, you know,

2533
02:25:04,879 --> 02:25:08,720
Speaker 1: to feed families and feed people. It's not nearly enough, though,

2534
02:25:09,040 --> 02:25:11,640
Speaker 1: but at least it kind of pushes the needles where

2535
02:25:11,640 --> 02:25:15,680
Speaker 1: we need where we needed to go UM. And I

2536
02:25:15,720 --> 02:25:20,680
Speaker 1: think I think, having having been so focused and so

2537
02:25:20,840 --> 02:25:23,800
Speaker 1: like in the center of mutual aid work in l A,

2538
02:25:24,280 --> 02:25:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm able to kind of broadly tell you know, tell

2539
02:25:27,560 --> 02:25:31,600
Speaker 1: um really tell lawmakers too that hey, you know, there's

2540
02:25:31,680 --> 02:25:34,560
Speaker 1: so much um there's so much meat out there, but

2541
02:25:34,600 --> 02:25:38,160
Speaker 1: the community themselves have built alternate food systems to be

2542
02:25:38,240 --> 02:25:42,800
Speaker 1: able to care for themselves. I feel like my hope

2543
02:25:43,480 --> 02:25:46,720
Speaker 1: really is to be able to have to kind of

2544
02:25:46,800 --> 02:25:52,200
Speaker 1: hyperlocalize our food systems that way neighborhoods and really like

2545
02:25:52,360 --> 02:25:56,119
Speaker 1: communities are are essentially dictating their own you know, their

2546
02:25:56,160 --> 02:25:59,240
Speaker 1: own needs. They're they're basically bringing in the resources that

2547
02:25:59,280 --> 02:26:02,920
Speaker 1: they want, They're bringing in the kind of food that

2548
02:26:02,959 --> 02:26:06,440
Speaker 1: they want, you know, and um, and really just working

2549
02:26:06,480 --> 02:26:10,680
Speaker 1: towards the real kind of food food sovereignty where people

2550
02:26:10,680 --> 02:26:14,520
Speaker 1: are able to you know, to get the resources themselves.

2551
02:26:14,680 --> 02:26:19,040
Speaker 1: And and for me, I feel like mutual aid scares

2552
02:26:19,080 --> 02:26:21,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people because again it really is this

2553
02:26:21,480 --> 02:26:24,360
Speaker 1: sort of like, um, the reason why we were able

2554
02:26:24,400 --> 02:26:28,279
Speaker 1: to a lot of communities were able to to survive COVID.

2555
02:26:28,520 --> 02:26:31,879
Speaker 1: You know, we're still doing it and it still ours

2556
02:26:31,920 --> 02:26:34,040
Speaker 1: so deep in it. And and even like I try

2557
02:26:34,080 --> 02:26:37,959
Speaker 1: to tell students to and like, you know, um, mutual

2558
02:26:38,000 --> 02:26:41,800
Speaker 1: aid isn't just food or whatever. It's also like say

2559
02:26:41,920 --> 02:26:45,320
Speaker 1: your dad is a pickup truck and your neighbor needs

2560
02:26:45,360 --> 02:26:49,520
Speaker 1: to move, I don't know, their dining room table across town,

2561
02:26:49,760 --> 02:26:53,520
Speaker 1: Like that is a form of mutual aid UM or Like,

2562
02:26:53,560 --> 02:26:58,200
Speaker 1: there's there's so many things that especially a lot of

2563
02:26:58,280 --> 02:27:02,240
Speaker 1: immigrant communities that I that I work with. This this

2564
02:27:02,400 --> 02:27:06,560
Speaker 1: form of care, community care, you know, has existed forever,

2565
02:27:07,200 --> 02:27:12,600
Speaker 1: and it's just somehow elevated itself during the pandemic because,

2566
02:27:12,640 --> 02:27:16,080
Speaker 1: as we know, the safety net just wasn't enough. It

2567
02:27:16,600 --> 02:27:18,560
Speaker 1: didn't it didn't it really didn't help me, you know,

2568
02:27:18,560 --> 02:27:20,880
Speaker 1: it didn't really help a lot of communities, and so

2569
02:27:21,720 --> 02:27:27,000
Speaker 1: this system essentially kept people afloat. And now we're trying

2570
02:27:27,040 --> 02:27:33,000
Speaker 1: to figure out how to really create better ways to

2571
02:27:33,040 --> 02:27:36,760
Speaker 1: sustain it and to really create better ways to get

2572
02:27:36,760 --> 02:27:41,320
Speaker 1: the resources directly to communities that need them. So that's

2573
02:27:41,360 --> 02:27:42,920
Speaker 1: kind of where I'm at im. I'm working with other

2574
02:27:43,000 --> 02:27:44,879
Speaker 1: folks trying to figure out how to how to keep

2575
02:27:44,879 --> 02:27:48,440
Speaker 1: the sustainable and really have more agency over what kind

2576
02:27:48,480 --> 02:27:50,920
Speaker 1: of food and what kind of aid you want. How

2577
02:27:50,920 --> 02:27:54,800
Speaker 1: have people that have been needing to access the mutual

2578
02:27:54,840 --> 02:27:59,520
Speaker 1: aiding the food, how have they been learning about your organization? UM.

2579
02:27:59,560 --> 02:28:02,480
Speaker 1: I think honestly, all this stuff really happened by word

2580
02:28:02,480 --> 02:28:05,480
Speaker 1: of mouth. I think because I was I was already

2581
02:28:05,560 --> 02:28:09,400
Speaker 1: part of this huge coalition UM. That's part of of

2582
02:28:09,480 --> 02:28:11,680
Speaker 1: the Sophie Knows a Cat for All. There's a group

2583
02:28:11,680 --> 02:28:15,040
Speaker 1: called Street Watch. There's a group called Brown Game, There's

2584
02:28:15,080 --> 02:28:17,760
Speaker 1: a group called Like There's there's all these different folks

2585
02:28:17,800 --> 02:28:21,640
Speaker 1: that basically are in our wide coalition. I haven't had

2586
02:28:21,680 --> 02:28:24,240
Speaker 1: to really advertise much like people just sort of like

2587
02:28:24,840 --> 02:28:26,959
Speaker 1: just kept telling others like, hey, you know, like Melissa

2588
02:28:27,440 --> 02:28:31,440
Speaker 1: Polos and her team were doing this and UM. Also

2589
02:28:31,480 --> 02:28:36,760
Speaker 1: as a COVID response, I created another UM um UH

2590
02:28:36,760 --> 02:28:41,840
Speaker 1: like COVID initiative called Homemade Meals and and that is

2591
02:28:43,000 --> 02:28:47,879
Speaker 1: the partnership with another organization called YIS. And so as

2592
02:28:47,879 --> 02:28:52,480
Speaker 1: of today, I think we're close to seventy meals UM.

2593
02:28:52,520 --> 02:28:56,240
Speaker 1: That's all community lad. Yes. So we so we the

2594
02:28:56,240 --> 02:29:00,520
Speaker 1: smart of UM. We essentially created a system where we

2595
02:29:00,840 --> 02:29:04,040
Speaker 1: uh we work with people who are who are cooking

2596
02:29:04,200 --> 02:29:08,080
Speaker 1: homade meals in their homes and connecting them to drivers.

2597
02:29:08,160 --> 02:29:12,160
Speaker 1: And so we have about six different UM organ partners.

2598
02:29:12,200 --> 02:29:15,760
Speaker 1: So one of them is obviously it's the same people Kaytown,

2599
02:29:15,840 --> 02:29:20,199
Speaker 1: street Watch, Covenant House. They work a lot with Homeless

2600
02:29:20,240 --> 02:29:25,320
Speaker 1: Youth um l a can or in skid Row UM

2601
02:29:25,400 --> 02:29:27,560
Speaker 1: and a bunch of other mutual aid groups in different

2602
02:29:27,560 --> 02:29:32,360
Speaker 1: areas of l A, so I recognize UM. At the

2603
02:29:32,400 --> 02:29:36,039
Speaker 1: beginning of COVID, a lot of my houseless neighbors were

2604
02:29:36,040 --> 02:29:39,360
Speaker 1: telling us that they were scared, like because a lot

2605
02:29:39,400 --> 02:29:42,040
Speaker 1: of a lot of businesses were closing, a lot of

2606
02:29:42,600 --> 02:29:49,000
Speaker 1: corner stores, restaurants, UM that the food access completely shut

2607
02:29:49,000 --> 02:29:53,440
Speaker 1: off for them during at the beginning, and I started

2608
02:29:53,440 --> 02:29:55,160
Speaker 1: to freak out. I was like, we're going to get

2609
02:29:55,200 --> 02:30:01,600
Speaker 1: food to people. And so UM some friends who run UM,

2610
02:30:01,760 --> 02:30:04,039
Speaker 1: basically they weren't kind of like a youth kind of

2611
02:30:04,120 --> 02:30:08,520
Speaker 1: youth focus or UM wanted to activate their you know,

2612
02:30:08,560 --> 02:30:10,720
Speaker 1: activate their community. They're like, hey, how can we help?

2613
02:30:10,800 --> 02:30:13,959
Speaker 1: What can we do? So we created this program basically

2614
02:30:14,000 --> 02:30:17,480
Speaker 1: that you know, figure it out, like, okay, well a

2615
02:30:17,480 --> 02:30:19,320
Speaker 1: lot of people want to have volunteer, but they can't

2616
02:30:19,360 --> 02:30:22,240
Speaker 1: leave home, So why don't they cooked meals at home?

2617
02:30:23,080 --> 02:30:25,880
Speaker 1: And then we'll just pair them with drivers we can

2618
02:30:25,959 --> 02:30:29,120
Speaker 1: pick it up safely. And so we just start doing that.

2619
02:30:29,160 --> 02:30:34,120
Speaker 1: We created this system too, and and I think we honestly,

2620
02:30:34,240 --> 02:30:36,080
Speaker 1: I thought we were just gonna do it for two months,

2621
02:30:36,200 --> 02:30:41,439
Speaker 1: but now we're what like, in nineteen months later, seventy

2622
02:30:41,440 --> 02:30:46,520
Speaker 1: five thousand nails over a thousand volunteers, like it's been wild. Actually,

2623
02:30:46,600 --> 02:30:54,200
Speaker 1: Jamie a friend of dog expert, she would be angry

2624
02:30:54,200 --> 02:30:59,080
Speaker 1: if we didn't state that. So Jamie, UM, Jamie actually

2625
02:30:59,280 --> 02:31:02,920
Speaker 1: is it's one of our O g like like cooks,

2626
02:31:02,920 --> 02:31:05,039
Speaker 1: Like she started with home and made meals from the

2627
02:31:05,160 --> 02:31:08,360
Speaker 1: very beginning. UM, she's kind of one of our That's

2628
02:31:08,400 --> 02:31:10,520
Speaker 1: kind of how we know her. UM. It's because she

2629
02:31:10,640 --> 02:31:14,480
Speaker 1: found she found that program UM. And it's been a while,

2630
02:31:14,920 --> 02:31:17,840
Speaker 1: it's been it's been so amazing to to really activate

2631
02:31:18,360 --> 02:31:21,200
Speaker 1: so many people across l A to cook for our

2632
02:31:21,200 --> 02:31:25,680
Speaker 1: houses neighbors. And so I haven't even fully digested our

2633
02:31:25,680 --> 02:31:28,279
Speaker 1: our team hasn't even full digested that the real impact

2634
02:31:28,280 --> 02:31:31,920
Speaker 1: of that. But it's been seving five thousand meals UM

2635
02:31:31,959 --> 02:31:35,160
Speaker 1: made by the community for our for our houses neighbors.

2636
02:31:35,160 --> 02:31:38,160
Speaker 1: So so so that's yeah, so that I don't know,

2637
02:31:38,440 --> 02:31:41,520
Speaker 1: like I feel like and I truly believe there's just

2638
02:31:41,560 --> 02:31:46,320
Speaker 1: so much, just so much power and the people and

2639
02:31:47,240 --> 02:31:51,480
Speaker 1: really trying to figure out ways to continue to you know,

2640
02:31:51,520 --> 02:31:56,080
Speaker 1: to create UM better systems where where we can redirect

2641
02:31:56,120 --> 02:32:04,160
Speaker 1: those resources you know, UM to us and UM you

2642
02:32:04,160 --> 02:32:07,320
Speaker 1: know like really kind kind of break down these systems

2643
02:32:07,320 --> 02:32:10,360
Speaker 1: where you know, because because even people were telling me,

2644
02:32:10,440 --> 02:32:12,200
Speaker 1: like folks who are like, you know, these sort of

2645
02:32:12,200 --> 02:32:15,400
Speaker 1: big institutions, food institutions have been around for decades or

2646
02:32:15,920 --> 02:32:20,480
Speaker 1: even folks UM from like yeah, from like running food

2647
02:32:20,480 --> 02:32:22,720
Speaker 1: dogs since the eighties were like, you know, how are

2648
02:32:22,720 --> 02:32:25,119
Speaker 1: you able to move so fast? I'm like, that's mutual aid.

2649
02:32:25,640 --> 02:32:29,560
Speaker 1: That's like, that's mutual aid. Then our ability to not

2650
02:32:29,680 --> 02:32:33,959
Speaker 1: have to run through so much bureaucratic crap and red

2651
02:32:34,040 --> 02:32:38,320
Speaker 1: tape is a reason why we were able to, you know,

2652
02:32:38,480 --> 02:32:43,600
Speaker 1: to to to in secreate such huge impact because people

2653
02:32:44,360 --> 02:32:47,279
Speaker 1: believed in what we did and you know, and helped

2654
02:32:47,400 --> 02:32:52,160
Speaker 1: support us, funded us UM and we essentially just you know,

2655
02:32:52,400 --> 02:32:54,680
Speaker 1: just hit the ground running. We're able to figure out

2656
02:32:55,000 --> 02:32:58,720
Speaker 1: what people needed on the ground and just just got

2657
02:32:58,720 --> 02:33:00,880
Speaker 1: it to them. That's that's it, you know, and we'll

2658
02:33:00,879 --> 02:33:03,720
Speaker 1: figure out. If we don't have it, we're gonna keep

2659
02:33:03,800 --> 02:33:05,920
Speaker 1: you know, we'll ask around for folks who have it.

2660
02:33:06,320 --> 02:33:11,120
Speaker 1: Like UM. There's a group called SILA there. It's silver

2661
02:33:11,240 --> 02:33:14,840
Speaker 1: like UM and my friend Kat who's one of the

2662
02:33:15,000 --> 02:33:18,160
Speaker 1: co founders. She they also worked with with UM with

2663
02:33:18,240 --> 02:33:23,160
Speaker 1: Houseless Folks and they do uh incredible work, like you know,

2664
02:33:23,280 --> 02:33:28,600
Speaker 1: providing showers, providing hot meals, providing reference services for folks.

2665
02:33:29,640 --> 02:33:33,400
Speaker 1: Um she she was great, I'd getting hygiene kids, and

2666
02:33:33,440 --> 02:33:35,600
Speaker 1: so that's that was started me to wil between each other.

2667
02:33:35,840 --> 02:33:37,640
Speaker 1: Like she needed hot meals, so I gave that to

2668
02:33:37,640 --> 02:33:40,560
Speaker 1: her on Saturdays, and then I needed like hygiene kids,

2669
02:33:40,560 --> 02:33:44,520
Speaker 1: and so that's kind of like the basis, yeah exactly,

2670
02:33:44,680 --> 02:33:46,760
Speaker 1: like I literally will give her two hundred meals, She'll

2671
02:33:46,760 --> 02:33:48,800
Speaker 1: give me two hundred hygiene kids. And that was like

2672
02:33:48,879 --> 02:33:52,800
Speaker 1: that throughout the pandemic, Like we just would share resources

2673
02:33:52,840 --> 02:33:57,200
Speaker 1: and people thought we were this huge borg, but essentially

2674
02:33:57,200 --> 02:33:59,800
Speaker 1: it was just you know, literally like my friends and

2675
02:33:59,840 --> 02:34:01,680
Speaker 1: I talking to each other like hey, what do you

2676
02:34:01,680 --> 02:34:04,160
Speaker 1: have today? What do you have coming in today? And

2677
02:34:04,200 --> 02:34:07,000
Speaker 1: we just essentially kind of built this sort of cloud

2678
02:34:07,240 --> 02:34:12,320
Speaker 1: like sort of inventory. Right, so it's like Polos has

2679
02:34:12,560 --> 02:34:16,360
Speaker 1: a thousand meals and like Seela's got five hundred Hygian kids,

2680
02:34:16,480 --> 02:34:22,360
Speaker 1: and like you know, street Watch as like fifty tents

2681
02:34:22,440 --> 02:34:24,840
Speaker 1: and like a hundred tarps. So it's like we all

2682
02:34:25,000 --> 02:34:27,000
Speaker 1: were like, hey, you know, there's there's a houseless van

2683
02:34:27,160 --> 02:34:30,240
Speaker 1: on the corner of like Sunset or whatever that needs

2684
02:34:30,440 --> 02:34:33,160
Speaker 1: like blah blah blah. And so we essentially just you know,

2685
02:34:34,000 --> 02:34:36,560
Speaker 1: just grab and go like Poles has meals and like

2686
02:34:36,640 --> 02:34:40,080
Speaker 1: Streetwatch has tents, and like Kate Towns got like the tarps.

2687
02:34:40,120 --> 02:34:43,680
Speaker 1: So y'all just again beautifully just sort of started to

2688
02:34:43,760 --> 02:34:47,920
Speaker 1: like build this sort of sort of cloud like inventory

2689
02:34:48,000 --> 02:34:51,880
Speaker 1: of stuff and it just worked and it's still working

2690
02:34:52,920 --> 02:34:56,680
Speaker 1: so um and it's so assistant, Like is what what

2691
02:34:56,840 --> 02:34:59,280
Speaker 1: we're bringing up or at the beginning is talking about

2692
02:34:59,280 --> 02:35:02,920
Speaker 1: how consistent you're able to you're able to have done

2693
02:35:02,920 --> 02:35:05,800
Speaker 1: this work, which is if you're an l A resident,

2694
02:35:05,920 --> 02:35:09,640
Speaker 1: you know that you know the city's support is never consistent,

2695
02:35:10,560 --> 02:35:18,720
Speaker 1: so having that consistency is so vital. Yes, yeah, I'm

2696
02:35:18,720 --> 02:35:20,680
Speaker 1: not thank you know, it's it's a lot of hard work.

2697
02:35:20,760 --> 02:35:23,720
Speaker 1: There's so much that people don't see. Obviously, there's so many,

2698
02:35:23,840 --> 02:35:25,720
Speaker 1: so many things that people don't see. There's a lot

2699
02:35:25,720 --> 02:35:29,120
Speaker 1: of organizing behind it, just literally a lot of community building,

2700
02:35:29,360 --> 02:35:32,320
Speaker 1: a lot of meetings. Yeah, I think that again, like

2701
02:35:32,360 --> 02:35:36,520
Speaker 1: the bulk of mutual aid is relationships and trust, you know,

2702
02:35:36,879 --> 02:35:39,120
Speaker 1: like that that's that's really it. That's how you breathe

2703
02:35:39,200 --> 02:35:42,840
Speaker 1: life into your system. And it's like, you know, you

2704
02:35:42,920 --> 02:35:45,800
Speaker 1: have to have you have to continue to like nourish

2705
02:35:45,800 --> 02:35:50,680
Speaker 1: your relationships, you know, between yourself and other organizers, between

2706
02:35:50,680 --> 02:35:53,199
Speaker 1: yourself if you're running an order between yourself and another

2707
02:35:53,320 --> 02:35:57,000
Speaker 1: organ UM. And and really that's how we've been able to,

2708
02:35:57,280 --> 02:35:59,760
Speaker 1: you know, to to reach so many people, is because

2709
02:35:59,800 --> 02:36:04,200
Speaker 1: we focused on making sure but you know, UM, it's

2710
02:36:04,240 --> 02:36:07,320
Speaker 1: so easy to to burn out in this work. But again,

2711
02:36:07,320 --> 02:36:09,039
Speaker 1: we also have to make sure that we take care

2712
02:36:09,080 --> 02:36:13,320
Speaker 1: of each other, UM. And we focused on making sure

2713
02:36:13,360 --> 02:36:17,440
Speaker 1: that we're checking out the other two and so I,

2714
02:36:19,000 --> 02:36:21,720
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's hard to fully explain what how

2715
02:36:21,800 --> 02:36:23,640
Speaker 1: do you even teach that you know, how to how

2716
02:36:23,680 --> 02:36:27,320
Speaker 1: to how to properly build relationships? But I feel like

2717
02:36:27,400 --> 02:36:30,160
Speaker 1: that's that's such a key part of creating a really

2718
02:36:31,120 --> 02:36:34,920
Speaker 1: robust mutual aid network. UM. And that's at least the

2719
02:36:34,959 --> 02:36:39,120
Speaker 1: experience that you had, you know, yeah, are the work

2720
02:36:39,120 --> 02:36:41,000
Speaker 1: that you've done and what you've been able to accomplish

2721
02:36:41,080 --> 02:36:45,120
Speaker 1: is very impressive and is is something that people a

2722
02:36:45,080 --> 02:36:47,640
Speaker 1: lot of people can aspire to. UM. Is there any

2723
02:36:47,680 --> 02:36:50,520
Speaker 1: like resources online that you can point to if someone's

2724
02:36:50,600 --> 02:36:54,120
Speaker 1: wanting to get into this type of work, UM or

2725
02:36:54,160 --> 02:36:57,400
Speaker 1: any any like any kind of like advice to get

2726
02:36:57,440 --> 02:36:59,240
Speaker 1: started in your own city, or to like look for

2727
02:36:59,280 --> 02:37:01,520
Speaker 1: stuff that's doing similar that that's like that's doing a

2728
02:37:01,560 --> 02:37:12,160
Speaker 1: similar thing. Um uh wow, let's see who has um gosh,

2729
02:37:12,680 --> 02:37:17,560
Speaker 1: that's a really really really good question. Um. Well, well,

2730
02:37:17,600 --> 02:37:20,120
Speaker 1: first I hope that people have read Mutual Aid by

2731
02:37:20,120 --> 02:37:24,879
Speaker 1: Dean Spade. Um. That's a really good book. Um. And

2732
02:37:24,879 --> 02:37:29,120
Speaker 1: and from there I would read I would read The

2733
02:37:29,200 --> 02:37:33,560
Speaker 1: Black Panthers Social Programs. I get a lot of I

2734
02:37:33,720 --> 02:37:38,160
Speaker 1: get a lot of my um my inspiration from there. Um.

2735
02:37:38,200 --> 02:37:41,160
Speaker 1: And really that's that's really those those two things to

2736
02:37:41,240 --> 02:37:44,320
Speaker 1: kind of start as just sort of like your um,

2737
02:37:44,560 --> 02:37:48,080
Speaker 1: your primers um. And then if you want to kind

2738
02:37:48,120 --> 02:37:53,440
Speaker 1: of get deeper into food justice, um uh, they're's a

2739
02:37:53,440 --> 02:37:57,520
Speaker 1: really good book I get ready years ago. I think

2740
02:37:57,520 --> 02:38:01,160
Speaker 1: it's literally called food Justice one on one. Okay, let

2741
02:38:01,160 --> 02:38:05,200
Speaker 1: me see, it's really called food Juice one on one. Yeah,

2742
02:38:05,240 --> 02:38:08,280
Speaker 1: there's there's quite a few, but but one that's one,

2743
02:38:08,360 --> 02:38:10,640
Speaker 1: and then there's another. There's a one book um I

2744
02:38:10,760 --> 02:38:14,360
Speaker 1: read called More Than Just Food um. And then it's

2745
02:38:15,280 --> 02:38:18,240
Speaker 1: it's pretty by Yeah, I'll give you guys my top

2746
02:38:18,320 --> 02:38:22,200
Speaker 1: five and that really kind of helps sort of um

2747
02:38:22,360 --> 02:38:25,040
Speaker 1: like shape my thinking or on food juice. So that's

2748
02:38:25,080 --> 02:38:27,959
Speaker 1: It's written by a guy named Garrett Broad and he

2749
02:38:28,080 --> 02:38:31,480
Speaker 1: essentially like kind of lays out sort of how the

2750
02:38:31,520 --> 02:38:34,240
Speaker 1: industrial food system kind of created this huge crisis that

2751
02:38:34,320 --> 02:38:37,879
Speaker 1: we're in, and you know, like how there's there's really

2752
02:38:37,920 --> 02:38:43,280
Speaker 1: kind of an abundance of food everywhere, but obviously it's distributed,

2753
02:38:43,640 --> 02:38:47,280
Speaker 1: yes exactly, and so and and and it also kind

2754
02:38:47,280 --> 02:38:50,560
Speaker 1: of lays out how food justice you know, activists um

2755
02:38:50,800 --> 02:38:54,120
Speaker 1: who are in mostly low income communities of color help

2756
02:38:54,240 --> 02:38:58,800
Speaker 1: really build community based kind of solutions to these problems.

2757
02:38:58,800 --> 02:39:00,760
Speaker 1: And so that's really kind of where my thinking and

2758
02:39:00,840 --> 02:39:05,480
Speaker 1: my my lens comes from. Is be because I am

2759
02:39:05,520 --> 02:39:09,080
Speaker 1: a child of l A. I'm able to understand what

2760
02:39:09,120 --> 02:39:13,600
Speaker 1: different neighborhoods need UM based on because I either grew

2761
02:39:13,680 --> 02:39:18,000
Speaker 1: up there, work there, have family there, you know, what's

2762
02:39:18,040 --> 02:39:21,280
Speaker 1: school there, or just have friends or other organizers who

2763
02:39:21,360 --> 02:39:24,320
Speaker 1: live there. And so say, if you know, I, I

2764
02:39:24,360 --> 02:39:27,360
Speaker 1: didn't grow up in Ball Heights, but I have friends

2765
02:39:27,360 --> 02:39:31,280
Speaker 1: who did. And so like, if I'm trying to build

2766
02:39:31,320 --> 02:39:34,160
Speaker 1: out a food program or mutual aid program and Ball Heights,

2767
02:39:34,840 --> 02:39:36,840
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna just walk in there and be like

2768
02:39:36,840 --> 02:39:39,120
Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna do it at you know, Yeah,

2769
02:39:39,160 --> 02:39:42,199
Speaker 1: you're not gonna take over there, They're they're saying exactly.

2770
02:39:42,240 --> 02:39:44,480
Speaker 1: But I think that's one thing I think I really

2771
02:39:44,480 --> 02:39:49,000
Speaker 1: want to for people to really especially for for for

2772
02:39:49,040 --> 02:39:51,000
Speaker 1: young people who want to get to food justice, Like

2773
02:39:51,040 --> 02:39:54,240
Speaker 1: you really have to really honestly do your research first

2774
02:39:54,320 --> 02:40:00,200
Speaker 1: and let the media leaders lead, um lead lead your

2775
02:40:00,240 --> 02:40:03,640
Speaker 1: program with you. Right. And then there's a difference between

2776
02:40:03,680 --> 02:40:07,240
Speaker 1: like making community connections and then trying to take over, right,

2777
02:40:08,280 --> 02:40:11,080
Speaker 1: There's a very very two very different things exactly. Yeah,

2778
02:40:11,120 --> 02:40:12,960
Speaker 1: you don't want to be extractive, right, you don't want

2779
02:40:13,000 --> 02:40:16,199
Speaker 1: to be extractive. You don't want to be coming in

2780
02:40:16,480 --> 02:40:19,160
Speaker 1: and you know, and and and really like you know,

2781
02:40:19,240 --> 02:40:23,640
Speaker 1: try to like show up with like, you know, solutions

2782
02:40:23,680 --> 02:40:26,439
Speaker 1: where there they weren't informed at all by the community.

2783
02:40:26,440 --> 02:40:29,760
Speaker 1: And I keep trying to stress that, Yeah, is there

2784
02:40:29,760 --> 02:40:34,360
Speaker 1: anywhere that people can support you or at least follow

2785
02:40:34,360 --> 02:40:37,600
Speaker 1: you online to keep up with the work. Yes, Um,

2786
02:40:38,040 --> 02:40:42,080
Speaker 1: I'm very active on Twitter. Um it's uh, we're at

2787
02:40:42,160 --> 02:40:45,520
Speaker 1: Polos pantry, so that's p O l O, s um

2788
02:40:45,560 --> 02:40:48,920
Speaker 1: p A and t R Y. And then I'm also

2789
02:40:49,640 --> 02:40:53,080
Speaker 1: tweeting as myself as an organizer. It's under m E

2790
02:40:53,320 --> 02:40:58,120
Speaker 1: smelling music as M E L L E music. Um,

2791
02:40:58,160 --> 02:41:01,400
Speaker 1: and that actually that handled for me everywhere like my

2792
02:41:01,480 --> 02:41:04,480
Speaker 1: personal so I I tweet from there a lot. I

2793
02:41:04,520 --> 02:41:07,200
Speaker 1: tweet a lot about who Justice work I feel, and

2794
02:41:07,840 --> 02:41:10,199
Speaker 1: all our all our work in l A I tweet,

2795
02:41:10,200 --> 02:41:13,960
Speaker 1: I retweet a lot of our move network and coalition work. Yeah.

2796
02:41:14,200 --> 02:41:16,480
Speaker 1: Just thank you for coming on to the show to

2797
02:41:16,520 --> 02:41:21,039
Speaker 1: talk about through Justice and the work you've been doing. Um,

2798
02:41:21,080 --> 02:41:24,560
Speaker 1: it's great to hear more examples of people from around

2799
02:41:24,600 --> 02:41:27,000
Speaker 1: the country and then hopefully you know, around the world

2800
02:41:27,040 --> 02:41:31,240
Speaker 1: getting involved in in this type of work. UM. Anyway,

2801
02:41:31,280 --> 02:41:34,600
Speaker 1: I think that it wraps up us today. You can

2802
02:41:34,680 --> 02:41:38,120
Speaker 1: follow this show on Twitter and Instagram at Happened Here

2803
02:41:38,120 --> 02:41:41,440
Speaker 1: pod and cool Zone Media. UM, subscribe to the feed,

2804
02:41:41,520 --> 02:41:44,160
Speaker 1: leave a five star review or whatever. Anyway, that's that's

2805
02:41:44,280 --> 02:41:48,400
Speaker 1: that's the show. Bye bye, everybody, say bye everybone, Bye

2806
02:41:48,680 --> 02:41:55,680
Speaker 1: bye everyone, by everyone. It Could Happen Here is a

2807
02:41:55,680 --> 02:41:58,560
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. Well more podcasts from cool

2808
02:41:58,640 --> 02:42:01,280
Speaker 1: Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone Media dot com,

2809
02:42:01,400 --> 02:42:03,160
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

2810
02:42:03,160 --> 02:42:06,520
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

2811
02:42:06,560 --> 02:42:09,240
Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here. Updated monthly at

2812
02:42:09,240 --> 02:42:13,280
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening. Hey,

2813
02:42:13,400 --> 02:42:16,480
Speaker 1: we'll be back Monday, with more episodes every week from

2814
02:42:16,520 --> 02:42:18,240
Speaker 1: now until the heat death of the Universe.