Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Deal. I'm your host Jason Kelly
Speaker 2: alongside my partner Alex Rodriguez. Alex, I'm here in New York.
Speaker 2: You're down in Miami. There's a ton happening in the
Speaker 2: sports world and one of my favorite things records being broken,
Speaker 2: and a record in the National Hockey League that folks
Speaker 2: thought was going to stand forever eight hundred and ninety
Speaker 2: five goals for Alexander Ovechkin. He breaks the great one,
Speaker 2: Wayne Gretzky's record. The highlights were inescapable. When you see
Speaker 2: something like that, what does it make you think of?
Speaker 2: How do you analyze that from a business perspective?
Speaker 3: Well, I think, first of all, is wonderful for sports.
Speaker 3: Is great for the sport of hockey. It's amazing for
Speaker 3: a good friend Ted Leonsis. And look, as an athlete
Speaker 3: who played for twenty three years, this is Alexis twenty year. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he's won one title and he's only payed with one team.
Speaker 3: And of course this reminds me of right down the
Speaker 3: street where he plays, where my childhood hero Cal Ripken
Speaker 3: broke the all time record for consecutive games when he
Speaker 3: broke Luke Garrick's record, and that was like a national holiday.
Speaker 4: But I loved last night. It wasn't at home.
Speaker 3: He was playing the Islanders, you know, up in your
Speaker 3: neck of the woods up there, and you had the commissioner,
Speaker 3: you had Wayne Gretzky, you had Wayne's wife, Janet Jones.
Speaker 3: And records are meant to be broken and good for
Speaker 3: hockey and good for Alex.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I mean records are meant to be broken.
Speaker 2: And the thing is people pay attention. It was inescapable
Speaker 2: on YouTube, on social media, on ESPN. You know they
Speaker 2: were tracking it. You know, you think about the business
Speaker 2: of it all. There's merch associated with that. You know.
Speaker 2: You made the point that they were playing the Islanders,
Speaker 2: and I mean it certainly when he broke that record,
Speaker 2: he slides across the ice, you know, head first, you
Speaker 2: would have thought they were playing down in DC. I mean,
Speaker 2: the crowd went bananas. And you know that Islanders people
Speaker 2: for that moment, they were of Vegekin fans. You know,
Speaker 2: more than anything. You're there for this unbelievable moment in
Speaker 2: sports history. And you know, like you said, it's good
Speaker 2: for business. We remember, I mean cal Ripken we both
Speaker 2: love him. That was a long time ago, and yet
Speaker 2: we still you know, remember him, you know, trotting bases
Speaker 2: and then you know, running the whole the circumference of
Speaker 2: Camden Yards and slapping hands and it's cool to witness
Speaker 2: and as you said, great for ted Leonsis and the
Speaker 2: Washington Capitals.
Speaker 3: Is not only good for business, it's good for spirits, it's.
Speaker 4: Good for vibes.
Speaker 3: Here's Canada's you know, pastime hockey, which America loves hockey.
Speaker 3: But here's a guy who came from Russia and it
Speaker 3: came here in two thousand and five, has spent twenty
Speaker 3: years with one franchise.
Speaker 4: Again, he won a title.
Speaker 3: But it also is a lesson on perseverance, on grit,
Speaker 3: staying with it, on loyalty. It's what sports does in
Speaker 3: a world of geopolitical craziness. Here's rushat Canada and US
Speaker 3: and the rest of the world celebrating one man's accomplishment
Speaker 3: is pretty cool.
Speaker 2: It is the reason we love sports. Another reminder of
Speaker 2: why we love sports and some of the shifting tides,
Speaker 2: I think in a very positive way about what is
Speaker 2: really capturing our attention. We are recording this on Monday afternoon.
Speaker 2: So we don't know what's going to happen with the
Speaker 2: men's championship. We do know that Duke University is not
Speaker 2: going to be in it, which was upsetting for a
Speaker 2: lot of people, especially in the brackets for a cause contest,
Speaker 2: which you're a part of that Bloomberg does here. A
Speaker 2: lot of Duke fans are a lot of people who
Speaker 2: at least picked Duke. I mean, even our chairman Peter Grouer,
Speaker 2: who went to the University of North Carolina. He had
Speaker 2: picked Duke, and so he was both sad and happy.
Speaker 2: I think he was sad for his bracket, but happy
Speaker 2: as a tar heel to see Duke lose. That was
Speaker 2: a huge upset. So tonight University of Houston and University
Speaker 2: of Florida will play. By the time people are listening
Speaker 2: to this, they'll know who the champion is. But we
Speaker 2: do know who the champion is. On the women's side,
Speaker 2: Yukon absolutely dominant, a reminder of that amazing history of
Speaker 2: that franchise. Gino Orieama delivers the twelfth national championship, a
Speaker 2: record there, a record for him. He is the winningest
Speaker 2: college coach in terms of championships ever in basketball It's
Speaker 2: just an amazing accompliment. Sue Byrd another callback to one
Speaker 2: of our previous guests on the deal she played there,
Speaker 2: Azy Fudd was the most outstanding player and fun fact,
Speaker 2: asy Fudd was featured in the series Athlete Empire here
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg Originals, the pilot episode of which was young
Speaker 2: Man from Miami Alex Rodriguez and all of his business activities.
Speaker 2: That's how you and I met, that's, you know, where
Speaker 2: all this great stuff started. So I don't know how
Speaker 2: much you dug into basketball over the weekend, but it
Speaker 2: was fun to watch.
Speaker 4: Well, I got to tell you.
Speaker 3: I mean you talked about the coach Gino, I mean
Speaker 3: his twelfth title. I mean he's become the modern day
Speaker 3: John Wooden. They have now officially become the territory of
Speaker 3: the Lakers, the Cowboys, the Yankees, the best of the best.
Speaker 3: And it's great for sports and the domination and what
Speaker 3: he's done for so many years. There's so many lessons,
Speaker 3: whether it's business or sports or just humanity of how
Speaker 3: difficult it is to be consistent and great for that long.
Speaker 4: Hats off and they deserve a lot of flowers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's interesting to think about Gino's tenure there
Speaker 2: because it was probably surprising for people to be reminded
Speaker 2: they had not won a title since twenty sixteen, so
Speaker 2: it had been a bit of a drought for Yukon.
Speaker 2: You know, Pagebeckers had made it to four final fours
Speaker 2: during her tenure. She of course, is the presumptive number
Speaker 2: one pick in the WNBA draft coming up later this month,
Speaker 2: so they obviously were on the cusp of doing it again,
Speaker 2: but they had not won it all. They faced off
Speaker 2: against Don Staley's University of South Carolina. They were looking
Speaker 2: to repeat, and really the storyline was, really, you know,
Speaker 2: could Don Staley establish a full on dynasty at University
Speaker 2: of South Carolina? May have to wait a little bit longer.
Speaker 2: So the women's game, there's so much enthusiasm around it.
Speaker 2: You saw the crowds there in Tampa through the whole
Speaker 2: weekend for the Final four. A really a big reminder
Speaker 2: of how big that game has become. Especially in March Madness.
Speaker 2: There is something very close to parody when it comes
Speaker 2: to who's watching, how many people are tuning in. We'll
Speaker 2: see what the final numbers are. But that was the
Speaker 2: matchup that everybody wanted, was Yukon South Carolina.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're one hundred percent right, Jason. You
Speaker 3: know Yukon said to South Carolina as far as the
Speaker 3: dynasty goes, not so fast, right, We're back on top
Speaker 3: of the hill.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 3: And if you're Yukon and you're part of that ecosystem,
Speaker 3: I mean not bad. Three titles in three years, two
Speaker 3: from the men's one from the women's basketball, complete domination
Speaker 3: when it comes to hoops, and then from the business lesson.
Speaker 3: Here is if anyone thought, you know, there's allway skeptics
Speaker 3: out there there say, oh, women's sports, I'm not sure
Speaker 3: it's not going to happen again. Not so fast. We're
Speaker 3: here and we're here to stay, and we're only going
Speaker 3: to get bigger and better. And by the way, they
Speaker 3: also say, the product's always been good in women's sports.
Speaker 3: Now we have the attention, we're putting marketing dollars behind them,
Speaker 3: and we have the right partners involved. So Women's Sports
Speaker 3: Newsflash is here to stay well.
Speaker 2: And that is a great transition to our guests coming up,
Speaker 2: Jessica Berman. She is the commissioner of the National Women's
Speaker 2: Soccer League. We're going to talk to her about everything
Speaker 2: that's happened. The valuations have gone bananas, I think is
Speaker 2: the technical term during her tenure. Over the last few years,
Speaker 2: we've talked to several owners of teams here on this program.
Speaker 2: So all right, Coming up Jessica Berman. She is the
Speaker 2: commissioner of the National Women's Soccer League. Hi, everyone, welcome
Speaker 2: back to The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly alongside my partner
Speaker 2: Alex Rodriguez. We are so excited to have a good
Speaker 2: pal of mine join the podcast. Joined the Deal. It's
Speaker 2: Jessica Berman. She is the commissioner of the National Women's
Speaker 2: Soccer League.
Speaker 1: Hey, Hi, so fun to be with you.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm very excited for the two of you to
Speaker 2: meet officially because I talk about you all the time.
Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about women's soccer on this show.
Speaker 2: It's having an incredible more than a moment right now.
Speaker 2: But as we get underway of your season here, what's
Speaker 2: the vibe, what are you learning? What's sort of the
Speaker 2: underlying business feel like to you?
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, it's fun to be with you,
Speaker 5: and I know that you're our number one fan.
Speaker 1: Jason, so excited to bring Alex along.
Speaker 5: I love that you use the word vibe in your question,
Speaker 5: because we actually just concluded market research with our fans
Speaker 5: and the number one word used to describe the nwsl
Speaker 5: unprompted across our data set was vibes.
Speaker 1: That was a nut word. Yes, yes, but the vibes
Speaker 1: are good.
Speaker 5: We had three weeks of our season already in twenty
Speaker 5: twenty five, and everything has been incredible. We launched our
Speaker 5: first ever original content docu series, called for the Win,
Speaker 5: on Amazon Prime, which really helped with our priority the
Speaker 5: season of storytelling. We did a full takeover of Times
Speaker 5: Square where we had our players' full body images projected
Speaker 5: in the center of Time Square for the full four
Speaker 5: weeks of the start of our season. We opened with
Speaker 5: the Challenge Cup with basically a rematch of the championship
Speaker 5: between the Orlando Pride and the Washington Spirit, and just
Speaker 5: been an incredible start to the season.
Speaker 1: Of course, there's.
Speaker 5: Stuff on the business side too, but I know that's
Speaker 5: the stuff you're going to ask me about.
Speaker 2: So what is the biggest business initiative for twenty five, Well.
Speaker 5: We announced our Team sixteen expansion deal with Denver, and
Speaker 5: that is the biggest investment ever made in the history
Speaker 5: of women's sports at one time. In one transaction, several
Speaker 5: hundred million dollars committed to be invested in Denver with
Speaker 5: a purpose built facility both stadium and training facility. And
Speaker 5: of course the expansion feeds a league of one hundred
Speaker 5: and ten million dollars. And you know, because you've been
Speaker 5: covering us since before I came in here, that valuations
Speaker 5: before twenty twenty two were in.
Speaker 1: The five million range.
Speaker 5: So franchise valuations have grown exponentially, and our most recent
Speaker 5: transaction is a testament to that, and spending a lot
Speaker 5: of time with Boston and Denver making sure they're ready
Speaker 5: to launch a year from now.
Speaker 3: Basically, Jessica, I have a friend that is part of
Speaker 3: the LP group of Denver, and I can tell you
Speaker 3: that they're wildly excited about the opportunity, about the investment,
Speaker 3: about the early feedback from season tickets, and all the
Speaker 3: excitement they've piloted.
Speaker 4: It's been really through the roof.
Speaker 3: My question is you mentioned in twenty two sub five
Speaker 3: million dollars and now you're talking about north of one hundred.
Speaker 3: Is there any concern as a leader of the league
Speaker 3: that values are rising too quickly and is that sustainable?
Speaker 4: How do you feel about that.
Speaker 5: It's definitely an appropriate question to ask. You know, we
Speaker 5: look at it through the lens of really twofold number
Speaker 5: one to ensure that demand significantly outpaces supply so that
Speaker 5: we can see a path to the continued growth in
Speaker 5: the future. And ultimately those are the underpinnings of the
Speaker 5: economic analysis that will continue to drive value. But also
Speaker 5: looking at the core tenants of our business, and a
Speaker 5: lot of what we've worked on over my first three
Speaker 5: years here is really building the operational rigor and professionalization
Speaker 5: of the league office, and we've built out an entire
Speaker 5: business operations team that's working hand in hand with our
Speaker 5: clubs to help them to drive revenue. And so ultimately
Speaker 5: the thing that drives valuations from a metrics perspective is
Speaker 5: revenue multiples, and so we got to keep drive up
Speaker 5: those repeatable revenue sources. Looking at sponsorship, ticketing, and media rights.
Speaker 5: We're in the second year of a four year deal
Speaker 5: in our current media rights cycle, and most recently we
Speaker 5: had our most watched game ever on ESPN, which was
Speaker 5: incredible to have and see, and to just continuing to
Speaker 5: see the growth in each season with those big moments
Speaker 5: that we're going to continue to drive towards throughout the
Speaker 5: twenty twenty five season.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Jessicau.
Speaker 3: So one quick follow up on that, So, second year
Speaker 3: of a four year deal, it's obvious the metrics suggest
Speaker 3: that you've overperformed, right, which is always good. You know,
Speaker 3: a guy like Roger Goodell with the NFL, he has
Speaker 3: an opt out clause and he can take advantage of
Speaker 3: the metrics that they're doing. Do you feel like, oh,
Speaker 3: I left some on the table or do you just
Speaker 3: kind of pack your lunch and get ready for the
Speaker 3: next negotiation and say, bucket your seat built, we're coming
Speaker 3: hard and we're coming strong.
Speaker 1: Good question.
Speaker 5: We went four years very intentionally, which was much shorter
Speaker 5: than any of our new partner wanted us to go.
Speaker 1: And we did that because we felt.
Speaker 5: Like we needed enough consistency as an emerging challenger property
Speaker 5: to establish the viewership numbers year over year and also
Speaker 5: bring our sponsors to the table to support the investment
Speaker 5: in advertising, so that our four partners hopefully want to
Speaker 5: renew with us and want to have those discussions, and
Speaker 5: of course they'll give us an opportunity to go to
Speaker 5: the broader marketplace to make sure we're getting the all
Speaker 5: evaluating all the options for the league, but we really
Speaker 5: wanted to have our deal be long enough that each
Speaker 5: of Amazon, ESPN, CBS and Script's Ion had skin in
Speaker 5: the game to be able to invest in us, because
Speaker 5: no matter how much we spend in marketing, we will
Speaker 5: never be able to match what the value of an
Speaker 5: investment is when, for example, in March Madness, when ESPN
Speaker 5: and CBS were running lower thirds and ads for the NWSL,
Speaker 5: they had ten to fifteen million people tuning in for
Speaker 5: men's and women's March Madness.
Speaker 1: That is so valuable to us.
Speaker 5: And if we had an opt out, or if we
Speaker 5: had a two year deal or even a three year deal,
Speaker 5: I'm not sure it would make sense for them to
Speaker 5: invest in us the way that we're seeing them invest
Speaker 5: in us.
Speaker 1: And we really want.
Speaker 5: Them to view us as partners and we're growing this
Speaker 5: business together. We want them to be winners in this
Speaker 5: and we want to over deliver for them in every
Speaker 5: single year of the deal so that they feel good
Speaker 5: about their investment.
Speaker 2: And so as you look across those media partners, just
Speaker 2: sticking with this, what have you learned about your viewer?
Speaker 2: What have you learned about the product, when it comes
Speaker 2: to the watchability of it. You know what different platforms
Speaker 2: deliver in terms of demos, like, what are the key
Speaker 2: learnings from media From the media side so far, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So far.
Speaker 5: Our average age is one of the lowest, if not
Speaker 5: the lowest, across all live rights holders, which is consistent
Speaker 5: with what we would have thought from to sales and
Speaker 5: other research we've done. So that's good check. That's what
Speaker 5: brands are looking for. Our audience is very multicultural. Our
Speaker 5: audience skews heavily female, or more heavily female than other sports,
Speaker 5: not exclusively. I believe we're around sixty to sixty five
Speaker 5: percent female as of the latest data, and we know
Speaker 5: that women control eighty percent of households spend, and so
Speaker 5: really triangulating that from a business perspective.
Speaker 1: Is super important.
Speaker 5: We also know that the audience is very balanced, even
Speaker 5: for us in terms of people watching on linear and
Speaker 5: people watching on their devices or streaming.
Speaker 1: The advent of fast channels and.
Speaker 5: Being able to have our games in places and spaces
Speaker 5: where people consume live content. It isn't just on streaming,
Speaker 5: but it is an important vehicle for us to reach
Speaker 5: particular fans who are not watching traditionally at least not
Speaker 5: week over week for particular regular season games.
Speaker 1: So we're learning a lot.
Speaker 5: Having partners like Amazon are incredible for that. They really
Speaker 5: know how to learn their customer and they're helping us
Speaker 5: get smarter about how we serve our fans, and we're
Speaker 5: leveraging all those insights across the full slate of our platforms.
Speaker 2: So I want to go back to expansion for a
Speaker 2: second if we can, because you've been pretty aggressive there.
Speaker 2: You talked about Boston and Denver coming online next year.
Speaker 2: You have made some comments recently about, you know, continuing
Speaker 2: to expand. I think I saw something and keep me
Speaker 2: honest here, that you think you could get to NFL sized,
Speaker 2: you know, at a thirty ish type of number, which
Speaker 2: would you know, I'm not that good at math, but
Speaker 2: that's close to double what you are. Now, what's the
Speaker 2: business case sort of city per city? What is the
Speaker 2: process you go through to make those selections and also
Speaker 2: to figure out what the right pace is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I think at every stage of growth and
Speaker 5: at every decision point where we're thinking about our next
Speaker 5: round of expansion, you have to look at the state
Speaker 5: of the business in terms of the geographic footprint of
Speaker 5: our country and where we believe there are markets that
Speaker 5: the NWSL could be successful, which spoiler alert, there are
Speaker 5: many markets where we are not currently operating that we
Speaker 5: know we will be successful if we had a team.
Speaker 1: There so no.
Speaker 5: Question on the ability for the footprint to be sustainable
Speaker 5: in terms of it continuing to scale and ultimately, yes,
Speaker 5: getting up to thirty thirty two teams.
Speaker 1: The way we'll make those decisions in.
Speaker 5: Real time is I think mostly evaluated through the lens
Speaker 5: of the talent pipeline for players and technical staff, because
Speaker 5: ultimately the growth needs to really be rationalized through the
Speaker 5: lens of whether the game itself, which is our product,
Speaker 5: can support that growth.
Speaker 1: And so we're sending a.
Speaker 5: Lot of time thinking about how we develop the path
Speaker 5: pro what are the investments we should be making, how
Speaker 5: we should steer the ecosystem working with US Soccer, and
Speaker 5: a lot of those conversations are very much underway and
Speaker 5: are a specific strategic priority in twenty twenty five for
Speaker 5: us to better understand and analyze and ultimately make a
Speaker 5: recommendation to our board so that we could be in
Speaker 5: a position of strength as we choose to expand in
Speaker 5: the future. I will say, just going back to the
Speaker 5: conversation around Denver, they announced this week that they have
Speaker 5: sold over ten thousand season ticket deposits, and.
Speaker 1: That's in under two months.
Speaker 5: So we know the demand is there and the success
Speaker 5: of our expansion teams will dictate and continue to build
Speaker 5: the confidence that we need to see in order to
Speaker 5: continue to expand.
Speaker 3: Jessica, you have this exceptional background. You went to Michigan,
Speaker 3: then you went You had a lot of grift ford them.
Speaker 3: You worked thirteen years in the NHL. We also worked
Speaker 3: for a smaller league in the NLL, which is lacrosse.
Speaker 3: I guess from your landscape when you zoom out and
Speaker 3: you look at some of the great things the big
Speaker 3: three are doing in the leagues wise NFL and will
Speaker 3: be an NBA, what are some of the things that
Speaker 3: you can copy and paste from both the big Blue
Speaker 3: Chippers and some of the younger leagues that you think
Speaker 3: about applying to your league.
Speaker 5: Now, that's exactly why I wanted to take this job,
Speaker 5: because I feel like it is the cross section of
Speaker 5: my two tranches of experience in having worked for yes,
Speaker 5: the National Hockey League, but also I was outside council
Speaker 5: for those other leagues as well, working closely with the
Speaker 5: NFL and the NBA in Major League Baseball, and then
Speaker 5: coming to what was really more of like an emerging
Speaker 5: challenger league in the National Lacrosse League. This league is
Speaker 5: sort of the intersection of those two worlds. So we've
Speaker 5: been able to sort of take from the bigger leagues
Speaker 5: the things that we think are replicable and make sense
Speaker 5: for us, and leave behind the things that we don't
Speaker 5: think makes sense for us. And it's been very liberating
Speaker 5: actually to approach each decision through an innovative lens and
Speaker 5: to make affirmative decisions about what we think makes the
Speaker 5: most sense for us. One example that recently we decided
Speaker 5: in our new collective bargaining agreement to eliminate the draft,
Speaker 5: which is crazy to imagine if you come from.
Speaker 1: Those big leagues.
Speaker 5: I was actually the labor lawyer representing those leagues who
Speaker 5: negotiated to protect and build the infrastructure to support things
Speaker 5: like reserve systems, salary arbitration, and the draft, and so
Speaker 5: I understand the value of those things, and when I
Speaker 5: came to this league and really analyze it through the
Speaker 5: lens of what makes sense for our business, it didn't
Speaker 5: satisfy our analysis, and so we made the very audacious
Speaker 5: and bold decision to actually negotiate with our player association
Speaker 5: to get rid of it. So imagine a world alex
Speaker 5: where every player is who's not under contract is a
Speaker 5: full free agent from the day they come into the league.
Speaker 5: And that's the situation in our league really built around
Speaker 5: this idea that we're building a player first league where
Speaker 5: players have the I call it lowercase a agency where
Speaker 5: they want to play, and I think for women in particular,
Speaker 5: that's important. But it's also just important given the global
Speaker 5: competition we face for player talent, where in soccer outside
Speaker 5: of the US, there is no such thing as a draft,
Speaker 5: and there is no such thing as a reserve team,
Speaker 5: and there definitely is no such thing as salary arbitration.
Speaker 5: And so if we want to put ourselves in a
Speaker 5: position to compete for the best players in the world,
Speaker 5: and we believe we are the best league in the world,
Speaker 5: to face some really important existential questions like that one.
Speaker 2: And so just before we leave this draft, no draft conversation,
Speaker 2: like what's the risk you had to analyze in making
Speaker 2: that bold of a decision, Because I'm guessing that didn't
Speaker 2: just like sail through the board. I'm guessing with some
Speaker 2: pretty vibrant discussion, shall we say how did that go?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Absolutely, And I would say vibrant discussion not just with
Speaker 5: the board but even internally at the league office to
Speaker 5: really challenge ourselves to ask.
Speaker 1: The question, is this the right decision? I'd say there's two.
Speaker 5: There are two potential risk factors which we obviously got over,
Speaker 5: but that we considered very heavily. The first is that
Speaker 5: in a world where we're all looking for three hundred
Speaker 5: and sixty five days a year, programming, the draft for
Speaker 5: professional sports leagues is a really helpful touch point with
Speaker 5: fans in the off season. So it creates stories, it
Speaker 5: gives people are recent to pay attention, It shortens the
Speaker 5: off season from a content and promotion perspective, and those
Speaker 5: things actually matter. So you know, we are still thinking
Speaker 5: about how we're going to fill that gap because we
Speaker 5: did not fill that gap this past year, and we felt.
Speaker 1: It in the off season candidly.
Speaker 5: So you know, whether we do a combine or something
Speaker 5: else that is a relevant touch point in the off
Speaker 5: season that is a very useful output of the draft.
Speaker 5: The second thing that would be a risk around it
Speaker 5: that we considered is a world where we are not
Speaker 5: in a position to preserve the competitive balance or parity
Speaker 5: that we have in our league, and the draft is
Speaker 5: a very useful mechanism for forcing the redistribution of talent.
Speaker 5: That's one of the main purposes that it serves in
Speaker 5: our league. Because we have a salary cap, and because
Speaker 5: there are minimum spends, and because we are the best
Speaker 5: league in the world in terms of visibility, in terms
Speaker 5: of investment, in terms of infrastructure, we believe that there's
Speaker 5: incentive alignment to create a forcing function because of the markets,
Speaker 5: because of essentially the free markets for our owners to
Speaker 5: continue to invest and lure players to their market with
Speaker 5: all of the reasons why a player should choose to
Speaker 5: come there, and if that's not happening, then the league
Speaker 5: has to think about what other levers we can pull
Speaker 5: to ensure that there's distribution of talent across the league,
Speaker 5: which we will and are continuing to measure. But those
Speaker 5: are really the two pieces of it, and we really
Speaker 5: feel like ultimately this salary cap is the most important
Speaker 5: safety net to avoiding a situation where there's haves and
Speaker 5: have nots, and we don't have a compelling product on
Speaker 5: the field.
Speaker 3: So, Jessica, you sit there as the lead during the
Speaker 3: commission of this league and we talked about all the
Speaker 3: metrics so far on what's going up into the right
Speaker 3: in your league. Maybe what are one or two things
Speaker 3: that are challenges that keep you up at night.
Speaker 5: One challenge is really just a virtue of the country
Speaker 5: we live in, which is that there's just such competition
Speaker 5: for people's attention and for people's disposable income.
Speaker 1: That is across all entertainment and sports.
Speaker 5: And I'll go like even closer to our world, I
Speaker 5: would say soccer. Soccer in particular, it is both amazing
Speaker 5: and a challenge that there's just about to be a
Speaker 5: tidal wave of soccer coming in to our country. I
Speaker 5: think the good will outweigh the challenges. But it is
Speaker 5: something that we are watching because it used to be
Speaker 5: that access to the best soccer in the world was
Speaker 5: hard to find. And the men's World Cup is going
Speaker 5: to be here next year. Now those are the men,
Speaker 5: so I think distinguishable in that way. We are the
Speaker 5: best women's league in the world. So if you want
Speaker 5: to watch the best women's soccer in the world other
Speaker 5: than at the World Cup, which happens once every four years.
Speaker 5: You would look to the National Women's Soccer League and
Speaker 5: we think because of that there is incredible tailwinds for
Speaker 5: us in our future. And back to your question, the
Speaker 5: challenges around all of the touch points that are going
Speaker 5: to be flowing into the market over the next few years.
Speaker 5: Around the sport of soccer and sports in general, there's
Speaker 5: just a lot of clutter. Like the fall, you have
Speaker 5: the NFL, you have college football. In the spring, you
Speaker 5: have March Madness, and then you go into the early
Speaker 5: part of the summer and you have NBA playoffs and
Speaker 5: NHL playoffs like almost every single summer. In the middle
Speaker 5: of the summer you have Olympics, you have the World.
Speaker 4: Cup, and don't forget about baseball.
Speaker 1: Don't forget about baseball. Don't forget about baseball.
Speaker 5: You know, there's just a lot of competition, and so
Speaker 5: that's sort of first piece of it, I think, just
Speaker 5: like the second piece of it is just, you know,
Speaker 5: I think a product of having achieved some really quick success,
Speaker 5: like we really have transformed the business in such a
Speaker 5: short period of time. And I think back to my
Speaker 5: first few months in this job, where the expectations.
Speaker 1: Were so low they were so low.
Speaker 5: And in just three years, literally it's my three year
Speaker 5: anniversary on this job next week. In just three years,
Speaker 5: the expectations have gone from literally nonexistent to you should
Speaker 5: be competing with the best properties in the world, and
Speaker 5: when are we going to have, you know, multi billion
Speaker 5: dollar media rights deal. The expectation are very high, and
Speaker 5: I think that creates some challenges because in order to
Speaker 5: have sustainable growth, it has to be measured, It has
Speaker 5: to be consistent, it has to be strategic, it has
Speaker 5: to be sustainable.
Speaker 2: And Jess, not to add to your worry pile and
Speaker 2: keeping up at night pile, but like this whole notion
Speaker 2: of the world catching up and you see what's going
Speaker 2: on with the WSL specifically in the United Kingdom, you
Speaker 2: see other investments in Europe and South America and elsewhere.
Speaker 2: What are the specific things you're doing to ensure that
Speaker 2: the best players continue to play in your league.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's leaning into our strengths.
Speaker 5: So number one, this is a country that is capitalistic
Speaker 5: and brands like to spend money in advertising. And if
Speaker 5: you play in this league, you will be a star.
Speaker 5: You will be a star. If you are a top player,
Speaker 5: you will be a star, and I don't think that's
Speaker 5: true in most other countries in the world.
Speaker 2: And by being a starry, you mean you'll get paid.
Speaker 1: You'll get paid, You'll get paid. I mean again, we
Speaker 1: have a salary cap in place.
Speaker 5: And that's to ensure the long term sustainability of this league,
Speaker 5: which I think is critically important, and our country should
Speaker 5: be able to support making sure that as it does
Speaker 5: with nil, as it does in so many other places.
Speaker 5: Like if you are a star and you are top talent,
Speaker 5: you will get paid. That's not a problem that keeps
Speaker 5: me up at night. So that's point one. Point two
Speaker 5: is I think our single most important superpower is that
Speaker 5: we are an independent league. We are independent from the
Speaker 5: men's league, and we are independent from the federation, and
Speaker 5: there is no other professional women's soccer league, and candidly,
Speaker 5: most women's leagues in general sit nestled within the men's
Speaker 5: league or the national governing body. What that means is
Speaker 5: that there are times when you can't make the decision
Speaker 5: that it's in your own best interest only, and we
Speaker 5: get to make decisions that are only in our own
Speaker 5: best interests. When I go to my owner's meeting next week,
Speaker 5: we are going to sit in a room and talk
Speaker 5: about the things that we need to do to drive
Speaker 5: the growth of the NWSL to be the best league
Speaker 5: in the world from a player, from a fan, and
Speaker 5: from an organizational perspective, and anything else outside of that
Speaker 5: matters only to the extent it matters to us, and
Speaker 5: that's not always the case in terms of how decisions
Speaker 5: are made in other places. And if I'm a player,
Speaker 5: I want to be in a place that's investing for
Speaker 5: me and for the growth of me and my sport
Speaker 5: and not calibrating it based on other factors.
Speaker 3: So, Jessica, so do you find it an asset or
Speaker 3: a liability as some of your owners own, both the
Speaker 3: male and the women sports and soccer.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a great question, and I appreciate the question,
Speaker 5: particularly in the context of my last answer, because what
Speaker 5: I was talking about was from a league perspective, in
Speaker 5: terms of our holistic enterprise level strategy. I think from
Speaker 5: a team perspective, there's incredible economies of scale and efficiencies
Speaker 5: that can be achieved with shared ownership structure. So long
Speaker 5: as I'll say through the lens of let's say the
Speaker 5: NWSL and NWSL teams, So long as the investment is
Speaker 5: being made independently for the women's team. I think what
Speaker 5: oftentimes happens with the property of the two that is
Speaker 5: a challenger property or the one that is in high
Speaker 5: growth but maybe not quite there yet in terms of
Speaker 5: the number of zeros it's generating in revenue, is that
Speaker 5: it's secondary or off the side of someone's desk, and
Speaker 5: it actually should be the primary driver of investment for
Speaker 5: growth because it is the thing that has the most
Speaker 5: upside and unless there's somebody who's looking at it through
Speaker 5: that strategic filter. In terms of okay, taking a step
Speaker 5: back holistically across both of these properties, where are we
Speaker 5: going to see growth in the next five years? It
Speaker 5: really should be in a shared resources model from the
Speaker 5: women's team, because there's so much opportunity that has not
Speaker 5: been tapped into. And you know, it's not only through
Speaker 5: the lens of a women's and a men's team. For
Speaker 5: my NHL days, there were teams that were shared resources
Speaker 5: with NBA NHL and similarly back in the day now
Speaker 5: I'm taking you back like twenty years ago or more,
Speaker 5: when the NHL was more of a niche property, we
Speaker 5: used to say the same thing to our NBA owners,
Speaker 5: which is like, we love that you're sharing resources and
Speaker 5: you have economies of scale and efficiencies to be able
Speaker 5: to pull different levers and achieve some savings and or
Speaker 5: increased profitability. And if you don't separately resource the NHL
Speaker 5: team in that context, you're not going to see it grow.
Speaker 5: It's not going to reach its maximum potential.
Speaker 1: And it's the.
Speaker 5: Same thing here and so I definitely do not consider
Speaker 5: it a liability.
Speaker 1: I consider it a benefit.
Speaker 5: And we want to always remind our owners who have
Speaker 5: those shared resources to separately resource the NWSL team so
Speaker 5: that it can maximize its upside.
Speaker 2: All right, before we get to our lightning round, I
Speaker 2: did have one one last question on the ownership side,
Speaker 2: because we've had a number of owners on the show.
Speaker 2: Carolyn Tish Blodgett obviously owner of Gotham and her family
Speaker 2: deeply involved to say the least, they owned the New
Speaker 2: York Football Giants. There has been and Jessica, you and
Speaker 2: I have talked about this as well over the years.
Speaker 2: You know there has been this. You don't have to
Speaker 2: say it. I'll say a different caliber of owner that
Speaker 2: has come into this league under your stewardship. I turned
Speaker 2: on the TV a couple weekends ago, and like, there
Speaker 2: you are at Bemo Stadium, you know, sitting with Willow
Speaker 2: Bay and Bob Iger, and you know they are obviously new,
Speaker 2: relatively new owners in the league. What do you say
Speaker 2: to a new owner in terms of the expectation of commitment,
Speaker 2: whether that is time, whether it's financial resource. Now that
Speaker 2: might be different than what you said two or three
Speaker 2: years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, great question.
Speaker 5: And I would also say different from what I used
Speaker 5: to say at the NLL or even at the NHL. Well,
Speaker 5: the things that are the same are that our expectations
Speaker 5: or that you have a long range view on capital
Speaker 5: and that you're here for the long haul. This is
Speaker 5: not a place for investments where you're looking for a
Speaker 5: quick turn or an immediate ROI. And we like owners
Speaker 5: who think of this as an intergenerational asset that is
Speaker 5: not that much different from other sports leagues.
Speaker 1: So that's where we're similar.
Speaker 5: The place where we're different, which candidly I love, particularly
Speaker 5: through the lens of the kinds of people who are
Speaker 5: sitting around my board table, is that the unique element
Speaker 5: of our ownership group is that they many of them,
Speaker 5: almost all of them at this point have the financial
Speaker 5: wherewithal to really build a league and are excited to
Speaker 5: roll up their se yes and really be part of
Speaker 5: building something. Many of our owners have told me that
Speaker 5: it feels almost like a startup where we're asking them
Speaker 5: for a lot of time, We're asking them for their ideas.
Speaker 5: We're giving them an opportunity to debate and discuss different
Speaker 5: strategies and tactics for growth. This isn't a league that
Speaker 5: is at its one hundredth year birthday and you sort
Speaker 5: of like have all the basic tenants built, and yes,
Speaker 5: there are decisions you have to make along the way,
Speaker 5: but the league is already sort of established and you're
Speaker 5: you're sort of steering it through its different cycles of growth.
Speaker 5: We just signed our first real media deal in twenty
Speaker 5: twenty four, literally last year, and so the path as
Speaker 5: we move forward has a lot of opportunity for input.
Speaker 5: And what I tell new owners coming in is our
Speaker 5: expectation is that you're going to serve on committees, You're
Speaker 5: going to show up at board, You're going to spend
Speaker 5: time talking to me and other executive leaders here who
Speaker 5: need and want your input, and we're probably going to
Speaker 5: ask you to pick up the phone and make phone
Speaker 5: calls for us because we're trying to close sponsorship deals,
Speaker 5: we're trying to bring on new partnerships, we're trying to
Speaker 5: understand the broader ecosystem. And so that's not for everybody,
Speaker 5: but for our ownership group, they've really enjoyed it, people
Speaker 5: like Alan Waxman and Mark Wilf and Carolyn Tish. You know,
Speaker 5: they might jokingly say, like, I spend more time on
Speaker 5: that than I spend on some of my bigger properties,
Speaker 5: but they also will tell you that they're enjoying it
Speaker 5: and having a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: They secretly love it, you know that that's.
Speaker 1: I know they do. They do, and they like to
Speaker 1: complain about it too, exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all, we all, we all love to complain
Speaker 2: about the things that we love. All right, So let's
Speaker 2: do the lightning round. It's five questions. We're going to
Speaker 2: bounce it back and forth. All we ask is you
Speaker 2: keep it tight, all right. What's the best piece of
Speaker 2: advice you've ever received on deal making or business?
Speaker 5: Listen to what the other side actually needs to have
Speaker 5: a win.
Speaker 4: Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 5: I don't know if I have a person, but I
Speaker 5: would say I'll describe them someone who is smart, prepared,
Speaker 5: and both respected and respectful.
Speaker 2: What's the most nervous you've ever been?
Speaker 5: Oh, actually, most nervous I've ever been after I gave
Speaker 5: birth to my first child and imagining how I was
Speaker 5: going to parent this little blob that was crying and
Speaker 5: I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: It was a lot easier to run a sports league
Speaker 1: than to do that.
Speaker 3: Hey man, what's your hype song before big meeting or negotiation?
Speaker 5: Ooh, the song that keeps coming to my mind is
Speaker 5: going to make you laugh, But I'll just say it
Speaker 5: because it just happens to be on my running mix.
Speaker 1: It's bring them out nice.
Speaker 2: There's a good one, all right. So you have had
Speaker 2: an incredible career so far. I believe your son Noah
Speaker 2: characterized you as a pioneer when you became the first
Speaker 2: woman to be a deputy commissioner, when you've joined the NLL.
Speaker 2: So what's your advice for someone listening who wants a career.
Speaker 1: Like yours to focus on the actual work.
Speaker 5: I think there's a lot of ways you can be
Speaker 5: distracted by things that are out of your control or
Speaker 5: how you feel like you might be treated. What opportunities
Speaker 5: you're being given, how fair it is. All those things
Speaker 5: I think are distraction. Ultimately my advice to people. I
Speaker 5: have a lot of quotes in my house and around
Speaker 5: my office. One of my many quotes is the Surroundery prayer,
Speaker 5: which is essentially to focus on the things you can control.
Speaker 5: That's what I've done for most of my career, and
Speaker 5: I think people who do that save a lot of
Speaker 5: energy and don't waste time with things that drain your
Speaker 5: emotions and are counterproductive to getting to your goals.
Speaker 2: All right, well, Jessica Berman, she is the commissioner of
Speaker 2: the National Women's Soccer League. I'm very excited we made
Speaker 2: this happen. You and I were texting a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks ago. It's like we got to get together. I
Speaker 2: didn't do that just to get you on the show,
Speaker 2: but I'm glad we really made this happen. I'm excited
Speaker 2: that you and Alex got to meet. Look forward to
Speaker 2: you guys spending some time together as well. This has
Speaker 2: been a really fun story to watch, and you know,
Speaker 2: your career is a fascinating one to track, so I've
Speaker 2: been very fortunate to be a witness to it and
Speaker 2: glad that we could have you on the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Congrats on everything.
Speaker 2: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.
Speaker 2: This episode was made by animaz Racus, Stacey Wong and
Speaker 2: Lizzie Phillip. Amy Keen is our editor and Will Connolly
Speaker 2: is our video editor. Our theme music is made by
Speaker 2: Blake Maples. Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Hoenig,
Speaker 2: and Brenda Newham. Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts.
Speaker 2: Additional support from Rachel Carnivale and Elena Los Angeles. Thanks
Speaker 2: so much for listening to the Deal. If you have
Speaker 2: a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show. It'll help
Speaker 2: other listeners find us. I'm Jason Kelly. See you next week.