1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. I 7 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: want to bring in Robert James Woolsey Jr. He was 8 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: the former head of the Central Intelligence Agency from through 9 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: and uh, Mr Wolsie, thank you so much for joining us. 10 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: I would love to get your take on what the 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 1: leak that we have been hearing about and reading about 12 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: in the Washington Post, what damage that could do to 13 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: relationships in the intelligence community, and how long lasting the 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: ramifications could be. We don't know without knowing the substance 15 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: of the league, and I very much hope we don't 16 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: know the substance of the league because it could be 17 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: quite damaging. It could be anything from quite damaging to innocuous. 18 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: We don't know, and that's part of the nature of 19 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: this intelligence businesses. You often don't know whether something is 20 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: important or not important, or discloses a source and method 21 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: or not, Uh, based on what can be said publicly. 22 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: And Uh, there's different stories and different approaches coming out 23 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: on this, so it's really hard to tell. Well, although 24 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: you you have to imagine that the New York Times 25 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: in the Washington Post aren't completely baseless in the reporting. 26 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: So you do have to wonder even if, say, the leak, 27 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: as you say, was not necessarily as potentially harmful as 28 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: it's necessarily being reported, you do have to wonder somebody 29 00:01:55,200 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: was upset enough in the intelligence community two leak this well. Uh, 30 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: upset is not a good judgment criterion. I had found 31 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: through a panel four people inside the CIA when I 32 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: was a director who had made serious mistakes. Uh. And 33 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: that had led to Ulrich James being able to spy 34 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: for for several years and then we finally caught him. Uh. 35 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: He was a mole for the Russians. Uh. And UH. 36 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: I had a lot of people tell me, Okay, fire 37 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: somebody Wolsey and uh, I said, but the four people 38 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: who messed up are all retired, and you can't fire 39 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: somebody who's retired. And they kept saying, it doesn't matter, 40 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: fire somebody, fire somebody. Uh. And so you know, sometimes 41 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: you don't have the tools that you need in order 42 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: to implement an ideal decision. UH, and that may be 43 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: the case here. Well, I have to wonder though. Last 44 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: night we heard from Secretary of State Rex Tillerson as 45 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: well as President Trump's National Secure Already Advisory hr McMaster, 46 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: and both of them came out and categorically denied the stories. 47 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: And then President Trump came out this morning and tweeted 48 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: basically what is being taken as a confirmation of some 49 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: elements of the story, namely that that he did share 50 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: some information with the Russian UH foreign minister and others 51 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: just to get some cooperation. I mean, what does this 52 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: do necessarily to the credibility? Sharing information is done all 53 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: the time, even sometimes with countries with which we have 54 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: a very tough, difficult relations. Uh. It's the president's decision 55 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: whether that information, uh is whether or not it's formally classified, 56 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: is UH if revealed to the Russians damaging or not. 57 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: He may have some other reason that he wanted to 58 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: disclose it. UH. He's the authority to to decide. And UH, 59 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: whoever is leaking this uh information may or may not 60 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: be substantively correct that it is serious. So we don't 61 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: know because we don't know what the information is. Um. 62 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: You were involved in treating negotiations with the Soviet Union 63 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: for five years in the nineteen eighties, So I think 64 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: that it puts you uh in a uniquely good position 65 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: to comment on what the U. S. S. Relationship with 66 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: Russia could be in its ideal and what it should be. 67 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: I mean, basically, does this is this issue complicated by 68 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: our sort of uh difficult past with Russia. Well, not 69 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: particularly by that. It's complicated by Russia's instinct to want 70 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: to continue to absorb, sometimes by force, nations that are 71 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: near them, uh, Ukraine, etcetera. Uh, So that's a major 72 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: part of the problem. I was in foreign negotiations with 73 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: the Soviets still at all those times, and UH three 74 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: of them uh limped along and took a long time. 75 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: One succeeded very quickly. And that was mainly, however, because 76 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: the Berlin Wall had collapsed in the eighty nine and 77 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: in early ninety. Uh the Russians were extremely cooperative. You've 78 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: never seen such nice Russians as after the Berlin Wall collapsed. 79 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: So UH, when they feel they're at a strategic disadvantage, 80 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: they can be really rather easy to get along with. 81 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: When they do not feel that way, they could be 82 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: extremely difficult to get along with. Last question, given your 83 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: sense and your contacts within the intelligence community, do you 84 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: feel like the media is making too big a deal 85 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: of this? Well, the media needs to distinguish between UH, 86 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: counter intelligence investigations and criminal investigations. And UH, the FBI, 87 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: as far as I can tell here, is conducting a 88 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: counterintelligence investigation. And UH, I can't find any crime. And 89 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: Andy McCarthy says it's very well again in his blog today, 90 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: I can't find what crime anybody might theoretically be investigating. 91 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: So assume I believe that you should that it's such 92 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: counterintelligence investigation, and that means that all of the things 93 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: that people are saying about the obstruction of justice and 94 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: so forth don't really apply. Thank you so much for 95 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: joining us. Truly appreciate your insights. James Wilsey Jr. Was 96 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: the former head of the Central Intelligence Agency from through 97 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for your insights. Stephen Dennis, who's 98 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: a congressional reporter for Bloomberg. We are awaiting the press 99 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: conference from hr McMaster, who's National Security Advisor. UH. And 100 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: while we while we wait to hear what he has 101 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: to say. Steve, I'd love to get your take on 102 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: the interview with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell that our 103 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: colleague Kevin's really did earlier today. Um, what did you 104 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: think was the most important takeaway? Front? Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. 105 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: We also had them for half an hour with the 106 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: editorial board down here. And you know, it's clear that 107 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: Ms McConnell is sort of exasperated and frustrated. That was 108 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: my take on the body language more than his actual words. 109 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: He didn't really want to comment too much on Trump 110 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: other than to say he wishes he had a little 111 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: less drama and focused on their agenda more than on 112 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: other things. And uh, but you know, I think McConnell 113 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: is doing his best to try to avoid getting, you know, 114 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: giving this story any more oxygen. And he's basically saying 115 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: trying to have things bottled up in the Senate Intelligence Committee, 116 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: deferring to them on whether there should be tapes that 117 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: are subpoened, whether they should even investigate what happened last 118 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: week with the Russian ambassador and the classified information. This 119 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: is a storyline that the Republicans on Capitol Hill cannot stand. 120 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: They want to be talking about tax cuts. They want 121 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: to be talking about regulatory reform, they want to be 122 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: talking they wanted to be getting healthcare over the finish line. 123 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: And as long as the White House is sort of 124 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: in a meltdown moad every week or every other day, 125 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: it makes that that job a little bit harder. What 126 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: kind of recourse do you get the sense that they 127 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: have Republican leadership to potentially damp in some of the 128 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: drama and just push forward their agenda. You know, I 129 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: think that they're talking to Trump and trying to diffuse 130 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: it as best they can. One of the things that 131 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: McConnell told us is that the next FBI director should 132 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: you know, told Trump this should be somebody a political 133 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: somebody like America Garland, not a politician, i e. Not 134 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: McConnell's number two, John Cornyn. And just so it's a 135 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: cerator at Merck. Garland had been nominated to fill the 136 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: empty role that was emptied by Antonin Scalia by so 137 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: he was nominated to fill out on the Supreme Court 138 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: by President Obama, but was not voted on UH and 139 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: was therefore dropped as a candidate. Correct. Yeah, and he 140 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: was a former prosecutor, so I mean theoretically he could 141 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: do the job, though apparently he's indicated he wants to 142 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: stay a judge and the chief judge on the d 143 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: C Circuit Court of Appeals, which is of course as 144 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: a lifetime appointment, instead of working at the pleasure of 145 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. So I don't think that's likely. But the 146 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: kind of thing that the McConnell's emphasizing here is that 147 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: Trump needs to show the country that he understands the 148 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: role of the FBI director. That should be somebody a political, 149 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: somebody with a law enforcement background. And you know, I 150 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: think one of the things that we're hearing from other 151 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: senators on on the on the hill this week is 152 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: that it's absolutely critical that they try to get democratic 153 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: votes given that this. You know, the President said on 154 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: Thursday to NBC that the reason why fire James James 155 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: Comey was because he was upset about the Russian investigation. 156 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: So that I think there's a there's a credibility problem 157 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: here on both sides of the island. Who knows who 158 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: he can who's going to pick, But that is a 159 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: critical issue on the minds of a lot of Republicans, 160 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: is that he needs to pick somebody's credibility. Stephen. One 161 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: of the most interesting is interesting things that I found 162 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: from the interview with a Majority Leader Mitch McConnell was 163 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: that he said that he would like any tax plan 164 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: to be revenue neutral, and this kind of went against 165 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: some things that we've heard from President Trump. Can you elaborate, Yeah, So, 166 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: I think McConnell is really laying down the law and 167 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: the deficit here on both taxes, on infrastructure, Uh, just 168 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: in general. He's saying, look, we don't want to pass 169 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: bills that are going to increase our debt. We already 170 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: have a twenty trillion dollar debt. It's alarming. I'm not 171 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: interested in passing a bill that's going to increase the deficit. 172 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: He is willing to have some you know what they 173 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: called dynamic scoring to give some credit for tax cuts 174 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: to reduce the economy, but uh, in the end that 175 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: score has to come across as not adding to the deficit. 176 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,359 Speaker 1: That's very different from what we've heard from some conservatives 177 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: as well as the President, who is much more focused 178 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: on tax cuts. And so it's sort of like Mitch 179 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: McConnell's sort of rotting shaff here um. While the President 180 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: may want to borrow money to build Rhodes and bridges. 181 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: Mr McConnell says, hey, you have to pay for it. 182 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: And while the President might want to have the biggest 183 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: tax cut since Reagan or ever, Mitch McConnell saying, hey, uh, 184 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 1: we actually have to pay for it by closing loophole 185 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: somewhere else. And so that's going to be a very 186 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: you know, hey, sort of saying we're gonna have to 187 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: eat our vegetables with our dessert here, Steven, you know, 188 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: I wanted to get your take. There is this feeling 189 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: right now that Washington is at a sort of stasis, uh, 190 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: embroiled in this drama, unable to move forward with some 191 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: basic legislation. You're on the ground there is that an 192 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: accurate portrayal or is their actual work getting done and 193 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: it's just the media that are buzzing around and sort 194 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: of getting lost in the drama. I think legislators are 195 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: trying to compartmentalize. Um. You know, they have to react 196 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: to the tweets of the moment, or the controversies or 197 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: the firings or this this huge story on leaking classified 198 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: uh information allegedly. Uh, that's frustrating to them, but they 199 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: are trying to compartmentalize that with what they're trying to accomplish. 200 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: At the same time. They were able to keep the 201 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 1: government open, had a big omnibus spending deal of course 202 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: a few weeks ago. They are trying to come up with, 203 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, the first parts of a bunchet deal for 204 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: next to you to keep the government open. And on healthcare, 205 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: Republicans and even some Democrats are starting to meet all 206 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: over campel Hill every single day and they're hashing out 207 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: things like medicaid, whether the tax cut stay in the bill, uh, 208 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: sort of the whole, all the pieces of healthcare, and 209 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: and an on the ground behind those closed doors. They're 210 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: really focused on those details, not so much on the 211 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: president's tweet. But you know, it does take an awful 212 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: lot of the political oxygen out of the room. Stephen Dennis, 213 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Stephen Dennis is 214 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: a progressional reporter for Bloomberg. Coming to us from Washington, 215 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: d C. We want to take a moment to let 216 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: you know about something new from Bloomberg. Starting right now, 217 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: you can use our Io s app or our new 218 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: Google Chrome extension to scan any news story on any 219 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: website instantly. Revealing relevant news and market data from Bloomberg 220 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: and other sources related to companies and people you're reading about. 221 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: So no matter where you're reading the news, you can 222 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: bring the power of Bloomberg's news and data with you. 223 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing. Download our io s app or search 224 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: for the Bloomberg extension on the Chrome Store to try 225 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: it out. Learn more at Bloomberg dot com slash lens Well. 226 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: Emerging markets debt has been one of the hottest asset 227 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: classes this year. Investors have been piling in money at 228 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: a really at a record pace into mutual funds that 229 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: owned this debt. And yet typically this asset class is 230 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: correlated to both the Federal Reserve raising rates as well 231 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: as oil prices which have been declining. Why are they 232 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: not this time around? I want to bring a Damien Sassaur, 233 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: who's our Bloomberg intelligence strategists focusing on fixed income in 234 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: the emerging market space. Amy, and I'm so glad that 235 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: you could join us. You wrote a piece that I 236 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: thought was really compelling talking about how the correlation between 237 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: emerging markets debt, in particular in company in countries that 238 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: are oil dependent, has completely broken down from energy prices 239 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: what's going on here? Yeah, no, I mean so UM 240 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: corporate and quasi sovereign debt. Actually the corporations themselves, so 241 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: Petro Brass, CINEPEC, uh, Pemmic, some of the you know 242 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: upstream producers, they have historically had a very high correlation 243 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: to the price of oil and UM. On the latest 244 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: down turn, all the oil prices have come back, you know, 245 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: pretty shockingly in the last week and a half. Uh, 246 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: those spreads are broken down. I mean you have equity prices, 247 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: you know, trading in line with UM with oil prices 248 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: falling effectively, but bond spreads have tightened, and that's something 249 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: new that certainly is not what we saw when CREWD 250 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: plunged from sixt So what's going on here is it's 251 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: just a matter of people closing their eyes and covering 252 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: their ears and going la la, la, la la. Or 253 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: is there something real in it? Well, at leastly. I mean, 254 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: this is basically the microcosm of a much broader trend 255 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: that you and I have talked about. You know, this 256 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: is this is about fund flows. This is about e 257 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: M cash flows, which were improving. These are about it's 258 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: about new issues. You know, we've we've seen record new 259 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: wish ones here to day an emerging market debt. Yet 260 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: the fund flows into the asset class and you know 261 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: the cash flows that the asset classes is basically returning 262 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: to investors has exceeded that. And so you know it's 263 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: just um yeah, I mean it's it's really structural. It's 264 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: really supplied demand technicals that are driving spreads right now. Okay, 265 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: So when I talk to investors who still are bullish 266 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: on emerging markets credit, they say a couple of things 267 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: to be They say, first of all, Uh, these nations, 268 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: the developing nations are de leveraging compared to developed nations 269 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: which are boosting their leverage. They also are growing at 270 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: faster paces. Uh. They also have more stability than they 271 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: used to. Uh, let's talk about de leveraging. Are they deleveraging? Um? 272 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: So it depends, right, You've got certain nations where you 273 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: are in facting that's GDP UM decline um, like the 274 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: Philippines for example. But you know, by and large, and 275 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: permit me, the data is a little bit. It's lagged, 276 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: you know. That's GDP figures don't normally come out you know, 277 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: as they report. They're usually a three to six month lag, 278 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: but by and large we're not seeing m de leveraging 279 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: at the sovereign level and emerging markets UM. In fact, 280 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: if you look at countries, for example, Saudi Arabia, they've 281 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: gone from zero to death to GDP in less than 282 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: a year and UM and that's a single A, well 283 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: double a single A depending upon which rating agency you're 284 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: looking at credit right now, and one of the largest 285 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: issuers in the past twelve months. So you know, You've 286 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: got others though, like Russia who have been effectively UM 287 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: blocked out of the international capital markets right because of 288 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: the sanctions with the U S and EU, and so 289 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: they've seen, you know, that levels decline simply because they 290 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: can't access the markets. So you're saying it's patchy, and 291 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: so some people could say, well, it's a great time 292 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: for security selection to go in and find the UH 293 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: the credits and nations that have been deleveraging. One counter 294 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: argument to that could be that, as we've been talking about, 295 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: this is a mood driven as a class. When people 296 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: pour money in, they pile in, When they take money out, 297 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: they pile out. So couldn't regardless of your security selection, 298 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: couldn't people be left in a bad spot if the 299 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: tide turns absolutely. I mean, my colleague Mike mcgloan, as 300 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: he always says, these as a classes take the escalator 301 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: up in the elevator down right, so and emerging markets 302 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: that it's it's a exactly the same thing. I think. 303 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: What's drawing in investors, it's really four things right now. 304 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: It's it's carry right, I mean, it's always been a 305 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: carry play the yield to higher and emerging markets. Historically 306 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: they have been. Anyway, they're getting to a point now 307 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: where you know they're they're trading in line, and certainly 308 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,719 Speaker 1: as investment grade issuers such as you know, I mean 309 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: China has been a third of new issuance this year 310 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: and most of those new issuers are i G so 311 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: are high grades. So effectively, this emerging market index that 312 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: used to sit with high yield is now becoming a 313 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: much broader, more diversified, massive class. And that's the other thing. 314 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: The opportunity set has expanded. We've seen two hundred ninety 315 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: two billion of new issuance here to date and the 316 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: diversification by issuers. I mentioned Saudi Arabia, but you've also 317 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: had benchmark new issuance from Kuwait aman Argentina all access 318 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: the market this year, so you've got a diversified uh 319 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, opportunity set more so than you had you 320 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: know when years passed, right, and so, um, take all 321 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: of that into consideration, and then you see the fun flows. 322 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this year we've seen twenty billion at the 323 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: hard currency another you know, this is just this year, 324 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: another five billion into local currency emerging market debt. This 325 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: is unprecedented. I have to double check on that, but 326 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: I would say it's pretty close. I mean, the fund flows, 327 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: and these are retail fund flows and I'm only looking 328 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: at the top fifty. Um, you know, uh, open end 329 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: and exchange traded funds you know that are listed effectively. 330 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: So but yeah, I mean it's been it's been gangbusters. 331 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: And I think the one area that we probably should 332 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: also mention here are our cash flows from the asset class, 333 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, coupon income, principal redemptions, it's all fueling you know. Yeah, 334 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: people just keep piling that money back into this debt. 335 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: The question is what will come when the tide does turn. 336 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: Damien Sassaur, thank you so much for joining us. Damien 337 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: Sassaur is fixed Income Strategists for Bloomberg Intelligence here in 338 00:19:47,080 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: New York City. Well, for now is infrastructure where it 339 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: is happening. From May fifteenth through May nineteen, UH and 340 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: two UH officials wanted to highlight their plan for making 341 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: the infrastructure system of the US great again. Ray Lehood 342 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: is former U S Department of Transportation Secretary from two 343 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: thousand nine to two thousand thirteen, and Ed Rendal is 344 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: former Pennsylvania governor from two thousand three to two thousand eleven, 345 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: as well as the Democratic National Committee chairman during the 346 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: two thousand presidential election. Ray and Ed thank you so 347 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: much for joining me. One thing I wanted to start 348 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: with I was reading through your proposal for a two 349 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: trillion dollar UH infrastructure investment that combines public and private spending. 350 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: Between now and Ray, I'd love to start with you. 351 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: Based on your conversations with officials in Washington, UH and 352 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: some of the rhetoric that we've heard out of the 353 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: Trump administration, are you more optimistic that there will be 354 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: some kind of extensive infrastructure spending plan that will be 355 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: implemented in the short term. Well, I am optimistic because 356 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: President Trump talked about this in his campaign. He's talked 357 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: about it since he was elected president. More recently, UH, 358 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: in the last ten days, he talked about raising the 359 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: gas tax to pay for his trillion dollar infrastructure program. 360 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: His Secretary of Transportation, Eline Child gave a speech yesterday 361 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: at the beginning of Infrastructure Week talking about the use 362 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: of federal dollars for with public private partnership money. All 363 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: of the signals are very, very good, and it's about time. 364 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: America's infrastructure is rotting and we don't have the money 365 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: to to pay for fixing up our bridges and our 366 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: roads and our transit systems. And uh, now now is 367 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: the time to be doing it. And it appears that 368 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: the administration is talking a good game about it, and 369 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: it's time for Congress to take action. Well, Governor Rendall, 370 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: I'd love to get your take on what has taken 371 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: so long. I mean, according to proposal, it would combine 372 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: public funding as well as private sources of financing, but 373 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: it would include a more Build America bonds as well 374 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: as other you know, potential stripping away some of the 375 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: restrictions on taxing inner interstate highways. Can you give me 376 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: a sense of why there's been resistance up till now 377 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: for a program like this, Well, I think it all 378 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: stems from Washington's rocks to raise revenue. I mean, Grower 379 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: nord Quest has done a great job scaring the living 380 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: daylights at up most of the Republicans and some of 381 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: the Democrats about doing anything to fund infrastructure or pair. 382 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: Everyone says, we need to do something about our infrastructure, 383 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: but no one wants to pay for it. And uh, 384 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: obviously we can't do it. We need to pay for 385 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: it some way. We can get the private sector involved, 386 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: but they are only going to be part of the problem. 387 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: The solution, we need the government to step up. Twenty 388 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: three states in the last five years have raised their 389 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: own gas tax. Uh, and we ought to be raising 390 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: the federal gas tax. The bill proposed by Senator Bob Corker, 391 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: a conservative from Tennessee, that would raise the gas tax 392 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: ten cents gallon index it to inflation. That's a step 393 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: in the right direction. And to tell you the truth, 394 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: at least a very few Americans. I give this speech 395 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: all the time, and I asked people what is the 396 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: federal gas tax per gallon? And one out of people 397 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: know it's seventeen point eight cents a gallon. It hasn't 398 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: been raised since when both Plant was president and before him, 399 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: the great conservative of Ronald Reagan raised the gas tax 400 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: and said, why would we put off doing something today? 401 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: But if we wait ten years, it's gonna be twice 402 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,719 Speaker 1: as expensive. Ronald Reagan was right. It's time for us 403 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: to build it now. It's time for the Congress to 404 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: step up, to remove the ban up on the states 405 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: for trolling roads, to give more money to the tiffied program, 406 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: but to do build America's bonds, and to raise the 407 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: gas tax. If we do all these things, private sector involved, 408 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: the states and local government involved, and get some real 409 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 1: sederal dollars best in our growth, we'll have a revitalized infrastructure, 410 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: will be competitive again with the rest of the world, 411 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: and will create two or three million uh first class 412 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: family sustaining job as a pay somewhere between sixty and 413 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: hundred past dollars working on the roads and bridges and 414 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: working on the water systems, doing the things that are 415 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: necessary and manufacturing and steal as full and the aggregate 416 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: that they're necessary. Do Infrastructure Secretary Lohood, I'd love to 417 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: get your sense on the most pressing project that really 418 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: needs to get done within the next few years in 419 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: order to keep the US competitive. I thought that it 420 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: was really compelling that you highlighted how the US was 421 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: ranked eleventh by w e F in a recent survey 422 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: for its infrastructure system. From what was it number one 423 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: in two thousand five? What does it needs to get 424 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: back up to speed? Or we have sixty structurally deficient bridges. 425 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: They need to be fixed in the Northeast corridor. Certainly, 426 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: the Gateway project, which would add additional new capacity uh 427 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: to people in the New York New Jersey region, is 428 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: an important project. The California High Speed Rail project in 429 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: California is an important project. There are important projects all 430 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: over America. I mean we could go, you can go 431 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: region by region or state by state. Every state has 432 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: a one or two or three very very important projects 433 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: that have kind of languished because the federal government has 434 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: has really uh stepped aside from its responsibility to provide 435 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: the money. And now there seems to be some leadership 436 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: and some good discussion about a trillion dollar infrastructure program 437 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: and uh, if that happens, every state in the country 438 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: will benefit from it. Well, Secretary Hood, I wanted to 439 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,479 Speaker 1: follow up on that because you wrote a book seeking 440 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: bipartisanship my life in politics, and right now we are 441 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: seeing anything but bipartisanship in Congress. And I'm wondering, you know, 442 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: given the developments in Washington over the past few weeks, 443 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: has that put a damper on some of your enthusiasm 444 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: and optimism about the potential for a one trillion infrastructure 445 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: spending plan, which we really haven't heard much about. I 446 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: do think transportation has been and should continue to be 447 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,959 Speaker 1: a bipartisan issue that Congress can deal with. I served 448 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: in Congress for fourteen years. I was on the Transportation 449 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: Committee for six of those years. We passed two six 450 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: year bills. We did it in a bipartisan way. UH, 451 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: seventy five members on the committee. All seventy five members 452 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: voted for the bill. Over four members of the House 453 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: voted for those bills, over eighty members of the Senate. 454 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: That's what we need to get back to. And UH, 455 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: in spite of the fact that there is a lot 456 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: of acrimony and angst about UM some of the things 457 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: that the Trump administration has done, I do think that 458 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: the idea of transportation and infrastructure and fixing are are 459 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: ailing transportation system UH can can be bipartisan and um 460 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: I hope that it will be Relorhood, former U S 461 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: Department of Transportation secretary from two thousand and nine to 462 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: two thirteen, as well as a former Pennsylvania Governor Ed 463 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: Rendal and Democratic National Committee chairman during the two thousand 464 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: presidential election. Thank you both so much for joining us 465 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: on this Infrastructure week day talking about how we really 466 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: need a two trillion dollar infrastructure investment between now and 467 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: to close an investment gap that is becoming ever more 468 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: prevalent each day. And just to sort of reiterate an 469 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: earlier point, the World Economic Forum ranked the competitiveness of 470 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: the US infrastructre your system as number eleven, down from 471 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: number one in two thousand and five, so it definitely 472 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: points to much needed infrastructure. Thanks for listening to the 473 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscribe and listen 474 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast platform 475 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: you prefer. I'm pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at pim Fox. 476 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Lisa abramoids one. Before the podcast, 477 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: you can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio