WEBVTT - Identity Fraud Frankensteins

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg P and L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox.

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<v Speaker 1>Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we

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<v Speaker 1>bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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<v Speaker 1>you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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<v Speaker 1>or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg P and L

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<v Speaker 1>Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>if real fraud were not enough, how about synthetic identity fraud.

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<v Speaker 1>Here to tell us what it is is Jeffrey Finstein.

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<v Speaker 1>He is a vice president of Global Analytics at Alexis

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<v Speaker 1>Nexus and an expert on synthetic identity fraud. Jeffrey, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you for being with us. What is it? What is

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<v Speaker 1>synthetic identity fraud? Hello, I'm glad to be here. Synthetic

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<v Speaker 1>identity fraud of a really complicated type of fraud that

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<v Speaker 1>we're seeing emerged since roughly two and twelve, and it

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<v Speaker 1>requires a great deal of coordination. And what really happens

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<v Speaker 1>is synthetic identities are these Frankenstein like identities that are

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<v Speaker 1>created by fraudsters, and these identities don't correspond to real people.

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<v Speaker 1>They basically create false identities and they register them, register

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<v Speaker 1>these identities and the credit system with the purpose of

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<v Speaker 1>stealing from companies. And it's not just banks that they're

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<v Speaker 1>stealing from the they steal from all sorts of types

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<v Speaker 1>of companies in particular telecoms, utilities, thin texts, and even

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<v Speaker 1>the government. So, Jeffrey, just to get a sense of

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<v Speaker 1>what this would be, uh, if you played it out,

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<v Speaker 1>a person would create a false identity that they would

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<v Speaker 1>have no qualms about walking away from, leaving a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of bills unpaid for services that they took under their

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<v Speaker 1>real identities. That's exactly right. So what what the fraudster does?

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<v Speaker 1>They create a new identity that doesn't really correspond to

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<v Speaker 1>their true identity, and they curate that identity to make

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<v Speaker 1>them look like better and better customers. So they pay

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<v Speaker 1>their bills on time, and they let that relationship with

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<v Speaker 1>their financial institutions evolve so they're sure rating credit and

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<v Speaker 1>they're becoming good customers. And then what happens is, over

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<v Speaker 1>a period of weeks or months, or it could even

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<v Speaker 1>go on as years, they simply poof disappear and that

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<v Speaker 1>that negative activity doesn't really correspond to a true identity.

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<v Speaker 1>And in fact, that's the big challenge for financial institutions

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<v Speaker 1>that there's no true victim so well, except that they

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<v Speaker 1>are a victim, because that means that there are bills

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<v Speaker 1>that are unpaid out that are outstanding, presumably at the

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<v Speaker 1>end uh, that somebody walks away without paying. But I'm wondering, Jeffrey,

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<v Speaker 1>can you give a sense of what kind of scope

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about. How big of a problem is this.

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<v Speaker 1>It's hard to say for sure, because financial institutions don't

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<v Speaker 1>always know they've been they've been a victim. So what's

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<v Speaker 1>really happening is they see a really good customer they

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<v Speaker 1>just stop paying their bills, and many financial institutions might

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<v Speaker 1>assume that that's just a consumer that's fell on hard times. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And also it's pretty recent, which means we don't have

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<v Speaker 1>a whole lot of time to look at macrowick and

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<v Speaker 1>mc trend's. But let me share a couple of numbers

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<v Speaker 1>with you. For the last ten to fifteen years, around

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<v Speaker 1>seven million new identities enter into the credit system, and

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<v Speaker 1>a surprisingly consistent over that ten to fifteen years. The

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<v Speaker 1>little bit of fluctuation we tend to see is usually

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<v Speaker 1>related to either fluctuations and birth rate about fifteen years

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<v Speaker 1>prior or immigration rate, and and so what we see

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<v Speaker 1>is that stable number. Whoever, since two thousand and twelve

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<v Speaker 1>to about today, we've seen a ten percent increase in

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<v Speaker 1>that number that had been historically stable. And in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>when you start digging into these new identities, we've seen

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<v Speaker 1>almost an eight increase in the number of suspicious identities,

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<v Speaker 1>and that is suspicious synthetic identities entering that system. And

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<v Speaker 1>in fact, just speaking to a risk manager at a bank,

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<v Speaker 1>uh this was a week or two ago, they actually

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<v Speaker 1>indicated this was an eight digit problem. That's tens of

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<v Speaker 1>millions of dollars of meaningful losses to that financial institution. So,

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<v Speaker 1>is there a situation where you have collection agencies that

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<v Speaker 1>are trying to collect money that is due a company,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's a telco or a bank, they're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>collect from people who do not exist. That's a that's

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<v Speaker 1>a really good point and it's part of the problem.

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<v Speaker 1>So in true name fraud, what happens is that the

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<v Speaker 1>consumer victim will raise their hand and work with the

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<v Speaker 1>bank and essentially that gets wiped from the system as

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<v Speaker 1>part of their fraud operations. But because these these synthetic

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<v Speaker 1>or these Frankenstein consumers just disappear and they're treated as

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<v Speaker 1>credit risk. You will see them all through the life cycle,

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<v Speaker 1>and we do see them on collection files when we

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<v Speaker 1>help customers figure out, Hey, why why this collection program

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<v Speaker 1>not working? It's pretty common to see that there are

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<v Speaker 1>synthetic identities drifting into those collections programs. Jeffrey, has there

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<v Speaker 1>been any progress made in identifying the types of people

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<v Speaker 1>who create these identities? I mean, it seems like it's

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<v Speaker 1>a relatively sophistic CADD scheme in that people are curating

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<v Speaker 1>uh their credit worthiness over a particular period of time.

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<v Speaker 1>This doesn't this takes This takes quite a bit of effort. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this is definitely a full time job for those fraudsters

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<v Speaker 1>who are committing these sorts of fraud. And while I

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<v Speaker 1>can go through it, I don't want to say too

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<v Speaker 1>much because I also don't want to give instructions over

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<v Speaker 1>the radio and how to create these identities. But what

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<v Speaker 1>we see is these fraudsters working in identity factories. It's

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<v Speaker 1>almost like an assembly line of smoke and mirrors to

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<v Speaker 1>create these Frankenstein identities. And in fact, we know of

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<v Speaker 1>one in the state of Pennsylvania that created seven thousand

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<v Speaker 1>of these fake identities. And what's interesting about that is

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<v Speaker 1>when you look at your own history, your your identity

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<v Speaker 1>has really evolved at the speed of life. And what

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<v Speaker 1>I mean by that is there are key milestones when

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<v Speaker 1>you register a car, You've got a driver's license, your

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<v Speaker 1>registered to vote, you got credit and so forth, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's a relatively slow my grace. In a true identity, however,

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<v Speaker 1>these identities factories are really scaled for time, and what

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<v Speaker 1>that means is they don't evolve that quickly. They evolved

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<v Speaker 1>for a profit motive as opposed to a true life motive.

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<v Speaker 1>That makes sense, That makes perfect sense. Jeffrey Finestein, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much for joining us. Fascinating synthetic synthetic identity fraud. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>definitely an interesting development. Jeffrey Finstein is PhD and Vice

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<v Speaker 1>president of Global Analytics at Lexis Nexus. We are still

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<v Speaker 1>digesting all the details of the horrific mass shooting at

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<v Speaker 1>a country music festival near Las Vegas on October two yesterday.

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<v Speaker 1>Joining us as Chris Paul Mary who is in Las Vegas.

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<v Speaker 1>He is the Beera chief for Bloomberg in Los Angeles. Chris,

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<v Speaker 1>can you just give us first a sense of the

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<v Speaker 1>mood right now in Las Vegas. I'm sure you've been

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<v Speaker 1>there before. Has it changed, Yeah, it's it's definitely very somber.

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<v Speaker 1>This is just coincidentally the start of the Global Gaming Expo,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the largest trade show for the casino industry.

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<v Speaker 1>Twenty six thousand people from all around the world coming in.

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<v Speaker 1>So uh, some speakers had canceled, some spoken were you know,

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<v Speaker 1>very choked up. There were you know, signs of increased

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<v Speaker 1>security everywhere. Uh, it's it's definitely had taken a sort

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<v Speaker 1>of a toll overall, and usually a party city. Chris,

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<v Speaker 1>what about the increased security measures? We know that for

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<v Speaker 1>example worldwide sporting events, whether it's the FIFA World Cup,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you go to an event like that, you're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be scanned and there's gonna be someone with a

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<v Speaker 1>wand do you see those kinds of products in evidence today?

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<v Speaker 1>I just saw that for the first on yesterday at

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<v Speaker 1>the Wind Resort, where anybody that wanted to walk into

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<v Speaker 1>the hotel had to get their bags checked and and

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<v Speaker 1>be wanted, you know with the metal detector. Uh, you

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<v Speaker 1>know that, you know, we're in immediate aftermath the some

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<v Speaker 1>of the MGM properties were on lockdown. And they were

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<v Speaker 1>checking ideas of people who wanted to come in to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure they were guests. But I haven't seen any

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<v Speaker 1>other patinos he had adopted what Win had done. Steve

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<v Speaker 1>Win has always been a leader in the industry. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I did speak to some casino as actually

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<v Speaker 1>said that that very may wear it very well be

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<v Speaker 1>the future of anybody that comes into building, because that

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<v Speaker 1>that there was really no other way to prevent the

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<v Speaker 1>situation with the shooter, with the guns in the hotel room.

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<v Speaker 1>He wasn't attending the concert. Yeah, well, I mean, Chris

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<v Speaker 1>that that was sort of what struck me is how

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<v Speaker 1>does a person how many guns did he have? Eighteen?

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<v Speaker 1>How many he had? A whole arsenal that he brought

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<v Speaker 1>up to a high floor of a hotel and and

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<v Speaker 1>from that perch uh massacred fifty nine people. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>that's it's sort of amazing, frankly, that that could happen

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<v Speaker 1>at all, amazing amount of planning to on his end. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I think he checked in on Thursday. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>he had more gear than just all those guns, and

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<v Speaker 1>he hit some sort of hammer that he could break

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<v Speaker 1>those windows which are very thick. Uh. He had a

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<v Speaker 1>stand that he could rest the weapons on to get

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<v Speaker 1>a better shot. Just you know, amazing and it's diabolical nature. So, Chris,

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<v Speaker 1>are we getting any more details behind the motivation? I

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<v Speaker 1>have read a number of stories saying that he was

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<v Speaker 1>not connected with anybody else, that the threat has come down.

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<v Speaker 1>But are there any more details behind what actually transpired? Yes? Um,

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<v Speaker 1>it's um it's a big, you know question mark because

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I spoke to security people and there were uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, no signs really uh, you know, typically on

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<v Speaker 1>these active shooters of them, if some sort of warning

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<v Speaker 1>speak this body leave the manifesto whatever. Uh, this guy

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<v Speaker 1>seemingly came out of nowhere. Chris, Uh is Nevada is

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<v Speaker 1>an open carry state? Correct? I think the thirty one

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<v Speaker 1>states that allow open carrying of handguns. And this was

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<v Speaker 1>not a handgun, of course. Uh, there was a measure

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<v Speaker 1>just recently trying to get the background checks in tighter

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<v Speaker 1>gun control. Everyone here are sort of focus on the

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<v Speaker 1>morning and the events and immediate security. But I would

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<v Speaker 1>imagine if the days come and president visits will be

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<v Speaker 1>a much greater focus on on gun control. I wonder

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<v Speaker 1>what the mood is among some of the casino operators.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this has to be a huge blow for them.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, on a personal level, it's always just devastating

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<v Speaker 1>to see this type of death toll. But aside from that,

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<v Speaker 1>going forward, I would imagine that people would rethink some

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<v Speaker 1>of their plans to Las Vegas unless there's some very

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<v Speaker 1>clear measures to prevent this type of thing from happening again. No, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I it's it's to school intern analyzed. I

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<v Speaker 1>said that that it happened during the start of this convention,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think it definitely sends a message because you know, executives,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what's happened before, because you knows there's been

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<v Speaker 1>a massive shift here in Las Vegas to create you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you used to be they try to keep people in

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<v Speaker 1>the casinos. Now they're opening the doors literally with events, concerts, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, creating a pedestrian friendly areas in front of

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<v Speaker 1>the hotels. So as they focused on you know, these

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<v Speaker 1>more experiential as they call them, you know, experiences that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they've got to take consecurity a lot more

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<v Speaker 1>into consideration. They've got to look at things from all

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<v Speaker 1>angles and act like the Secret Service and think about

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<v Speaker 1>you know, tall buildings, and constant vigilance during events, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to be a different world. You know, Chris

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<v Speaker 1>as l a bureau chief. You go from California where

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<v Speaker 1>they have a strict uncontrol rules and regulations, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>firearms are allowed, and to uh Las Vegas, which is

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<v Speaker 1>really an international tourist destination. Is there any conversation or

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<v Speaker 1>any debate that you've heard about limiting the access of

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<v Speaker 1>people who carry firearms legally to various private properties. Not immediately,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're just a little color. I went yesterday to

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<v Speaker 1>this place called Battlefield, Vegas, which is one of these places,

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<v Speaker 1>and they are quite a number of them, very close

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<v Speaker 1>to the strip where you can go fire machine guns,

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<v Speaker 1>and in this particular place looked like a natural guard arsenal.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean they had tanks and the employees were wearing

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<v Speaker 1>fatigues and there were people there. There were there was

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<v Speaker 1>I was, I don't know what the regular day is like,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, I talked to some guys who said, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>we scheduled this before you know, they're walking out with

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<v Speaker 1>these targets that are full of machine gun bullet holes. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there were tourists from me as you know,

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<v Speaker 1>getting a picture taken on tanks. Uh uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the manager I didn't want to talk to me, but

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<v Speaker 1>you know, there is very much, uh you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>desire in some communities to have this kind of access.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's gonna be the tether of work going forward. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>is that the subject of discussion just among people who

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<v Speaker 1>you encounter as you walk around Las Vegas. Initially, I

0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.439
<v Speaker 1>think it was really focused on on just the shock

0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.480
<v Speaker 1>and the UH and the and the enhanced security. I

0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:21.040
<v Speaker 1>did speak to the visit the former Boston Police commissioner

0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.040
<v Speaker 1>who was there during the Boston UH marathon attack, and

0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, he did bring up the subject of gun control.

0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.040
<v Speaker 1>He said he would have thought would been an issue

0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:30.680
<v Speaker 1>a lot earlier with Sandy Hook and that. And he's

0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.920
<v Speaker 1>actually speaking this morning to the to the convention, so

0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.800
<v Speaker 1>we'll see what he has to say there. But you know,

0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure it'll be uh more of a conversation as

0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:45.000
<v Speaker 1>that as the initial shock ward off. Well, apparently, you know,

0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.920
<v Speaker 1>and this's just coming from Greg Jared who says, you know,

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.600
<v Speaker 1>you cannot carry a firearm into an establishment that has gambling,

0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:57.000
<v Speaker 1>and most casinos do not allow concealed weapons even if

0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.960
<v Speaker 1>you have a concealed weapons permit, you can be refus

0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.319
<v Speaker 1>used entry because, as I said earlier, it's a private business.

0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:04.840
<v Speaker 1>I want to thank you very much for joining us.

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Chris Palmry he is our Los Angeles Bureau chief, reporting

0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:23.360
<v Speaker 1>from Las Vegas. Well, we want to visit right now

0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.960
<v Speaker 1>with Rebecca LENLN, executive analysts for Cox Automotive, because of

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 1>course we got many of the sales reports this morning,

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Toyota GM posting the biggest US sales gains on the

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.360
<v Speaker 1>post Harvey hurricane demand, and she joins us here in

0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.080
<v Speaker 1>our eleven three oh studios. Rebecca, always a pleasure, Thanks

0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 1>for being with us. What do you make What do

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.880
<v Speaker 1>you make of this report? I think that we've seen

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.160
<v Speaker 1>some fantastic sales coming out. They basically have beat all

0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.480
<v Speaker 1>of our analyst estimates. And I think it's a combination

0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.400
<v Speaker 1>of things. It's really pent up demand from the hurricane

0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.840
<v Speaker 1>because a lot of people didn't shop in the last

0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.400
<v Speaker 1>few weeks both of August and September, and so we

0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.400
<v Speaker 1>have some pent up demand there. And then we also

0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:07.600
<v Speaker 1>have fantastic incentives. We've got great new products coming out,

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:12.800
<v Speaker 1>We've got a stock market at record levels, high consumer confidence,

0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.040
<v Speaker 1>there's all sorts of fantastic reasons to go out and

0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.320
<v Speaker 1>buy a car, and there's great new product coming out

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:22.240
<v Speaker 1>as well. Well. This is such a shift in tone

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.800
<v Speaker 1>because just a few months ago, a lot of automakers

0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.560
<v Speaker 1>were talking about how they're expecting to see sales declines.

0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 1>They were seeing sales declines, resale values of cars were

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 1>going down all of a sudden. Now, is this really

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.440
<v Speaker 1>a shift in the overall landscape landscape for automakers, or

0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.640
<v Speaker 1>is this really a blip that is due to the hurricanes.

0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.400
<v Speaker 1>It's more of a blip, And I don't think that

0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 1>we're necessarily going to see this continue, you know. So

0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.520
<v Speaker 1>so come as we report in on October sales on

0:15:55.560 --> 0:16:00.240
<v Speaker 1>November one, I think we could see some decline. But

0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.119
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, people that are getting insurance payouts

0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:07.320
<v Speaker 1>may still be shopping in October. So I think it's

0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.160
<v Speaker 1>hard to say now the full impact of the hurricanes

0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.840
<v Speaker 1>and how that plays out over the next few months.

0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.840
<v Speaker 1>And again, if we think about product, we've got a

0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.200
<v Speaker 1>new Cameray, We've got a new Honda Chord that I

0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 1>just drove last week. So we've got some really high volume,

0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:29.600
<v Speaker 1>really good vehicles coming out The difficulty through withen is

0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:34.280
<v Speaker 1>that because we had a record setting every month, it's

0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.280
<v Speaker 1>gonna you know, it's hard to beat that record. So

0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.760
<v Speaker 1>we're always going to be down a little bit. Yes,

0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.760
<v Speaker 1>although you know you said they're such great incentives. Incentives

0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 1>are great for the buyers, they're not that great for

0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.720
<v Speaker 1>the manufacturers because that means they're expect accepting a lower

0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.600
<v Speaker 1>profit margin. And yes, they are coming off of an

0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:55.000
<v Speaker 1>exceptionally good year, but they've seen weakness in a lot

0:16:55.040 --> 0:17:00.160
<v Speaker 1>of areas and their profits have sort of have reflected that. Well,

0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:05.040
<v Speaker 1>General Motors still making nine billion dollars in profits fair enough.

0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think it's important to remember that this

0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.800
<v Speaker 1>is not the industry of two thousand seven, eight and nine.

0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:15.840
<v Speaker 1>This is a much more disciplined, much trimmer industry. And

0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.800
<v Speaker 1>so you know, a coming like GM has shed brands,

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.960
<v Speaker 1>uh Chryslers shed models. So we're in a situation where

0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:27.600
<v Speaker 1>even if they incentivize, we are still making some really

0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.680
<v Speaker 1>healthy profit numbers. Let me just give you an example,

0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.600
<v Speaker 1>and I want your reaction to this. If you want

0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 1>to buy in camera and you want to finance it,

0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.800
<v Speaker 1>they'll give you five dollars bonus cash zero percent a

0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:45.880
<v Speaker 1>p R and seventy two months. Yes, So as a

0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.679
<v Speaker 1>former employee of the f D i C, I do

0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:54.280
<v Speaker 1>look carefully at some of these credits and credit worthiness

0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.040
<v Speaker 1>and such. You know, one of the we own Kelly

0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 1>blue Book Dealer dot com Auto Trader, so we're able

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.560
<v Speaker 1>to track a lot of different parts of the industry.

0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.960
<v Speaker 1>And the number one thing that I that I caution

0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.680
<v Speaker 1>consumers against is over extending themselves. You do not want

0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 1>to go for a seventy two or eighty four month

0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.080
<v Speaker 1>loan because then when you trade that vehicle in, you

0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.680
<v Speaker 1>probably will owe more than it's worth. So I would

0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:24.119
<v Speaker 1>just caution people. Let's talk Tesla talk that everyone loves

0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.440
<v Speaker 1>to hate and yet that just won't die. We saw

0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:33.000
<v Speaker 1>them having manufacturing difficulties, unable to fulfill uh the production

0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.680
<v Speaker 1>amounts that they had expected. Shares are down a bit

0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.600
<v Speaker 1>knocked down as much as money people would like. Um,

0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:41.639
<v Speaker 1>do you think that they have a chance given the

0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.520
<v Speaker 1>fact that the Detroit automakers are ramping up their electric

0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.760
<v Speaker 1>and automotive car units. So you know, a Lisa, It's

0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.080
<v Speaker 1>Tesla is First of all, I'm a huge fan of

0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.960
<v Speaker 1>Elon Musk. I think that we need people like him

0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.440
<v Speaker 1>to push our industry. So so you said something nice

0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:01.680
<v Speaker 1>about him, Yes, but I do. I mean, I think

0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.080
<v Speaker 1>his technology is amazing. I think that his and you know,

0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.240
<v Speaker 1>the people that buy into his dream of changing the

0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:10.920
<v Speaker 1>face of mobility. He has given people a very clear

0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.439
<v Speaker 1>why why does he want to do this? And people

0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:17.480
<v Speaker 1>have reacted to that, and I think that his products

0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.200
<v Speaker 1>are amazing as well. The challenges that once he goes

0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.720
<v Speaker 1>through those five thousand people that have a deposit on

0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:28.800
<v Speaker 1>the Model three, is he adding two thousand new deposits,

0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, to make to to as that demand gets filled.

0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.520
<v Speaker 1>So I think that that's the challenge, is getting people

0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.600
<v Speaker 1>to buy his electric vehicle, and not just by his dream.

0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.480
<v Speaker 1>Dream is costly, right, because I mean he's not making

0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 1>any money. He is not making any money, but apparently

0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.480
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't matter to Wall Street because they're buying into

0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.720
<v Speaker 1>the dream as well well. And he owns a lot

0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.439
<v Speaker 1>of the shares too, So that's one thing that a

0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.159
<v Speaker 1>lot of short silus will raise because it's hard to

0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:00.080
<v Speaker 1>uh to borrow very expensively more than a little it.

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.600
<v Speaker 1>And you know, somebody very much smarter than me had

0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:06.600
<v Speaker 1>mentioned that they're wondering with auto sales. You know, let's

0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.840
<v Speaker 1>say those five thousand people, those people are kind of

0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.240
<v Speaker 1>out of the market a little bit, like they're waiting,

0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, so there's some pent up demand for people

0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.000
<v Speaker 1>that have a deposit on the Model three that are

0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.760
<v Speaker 1>saying I'm not going to buy Maybe I'm not going

0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.760
<v Speaker 1>to buy that Chevy Vault or Bolt because I'm waiting

0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.840
<v Speaker 1>for the Model three. So you know, it could be

0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:30.359
<v Speaker 1>impacting the market a little bit as well. Rebecca Linlin,

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.160
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for joining us. Truly of wonderful

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.080
<v Speaker 1>to speak with you. Rebecca Linlin is an executive analystic

0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:39.320
<v Speaker 1>Cox automate of talking about the fantastic sales numbers that

0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:44.639
<v Speaker 1>we've been getting out. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg

0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.320
<v Speaker 1>p m L podcast. You can subscribe and listen to

0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:51.919
<v Speaker 1>interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm

0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.200
<v Speaker 1>on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one before the podcast.

0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:05.000
<v Speaker 1>You can always cat just worldwide on Bloomberg RADIOH