Speaker 1: You're tuned into Heat Check with Trista Quick.
Speaker 2: On this episode of The Heat Check, we have a
Speaker 2: special guest on the show today, James Herbert of CBS Sports.
Speaker 2: James has been a feature writer for a very long
Speaker 2: time was kind enough to carve out an entire hour
Speaker 2: where we delve into the process of writing about the league,
Speaker 2: how he chooses his subjects, and what he learned from
Speaker 2: profiling such under the radar stars such as Jose Alvarado,
Speaker 2: Scottie Barnes, the superstars like Shay Gilgus Alexander and Pascal Siaka.
Speaker 2: It was a fascinating conversation. I learned a ton can't
Speaker 2: wait to get into it. So do me a favor,
Speaker 2: my man, drop that beat first and foremost. Again, thanks
Speaker 2: for coming on the show. I think you've got one
Speaker 2: of the funniest feeds on Twitter. Thank you, one of
Speaker 2: the most. It's a cool feed, right, It's got all
Speaker 2: this stuff. I try to keep up on it, even
Speaker 2: some things that make it on your feet. I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh man, I haven't seen that before. I think NBA
Speaker 2: Twitter is the best part of Twitter, you know, one
Speaker 2: of the best at least. What do you think happens
Speaker 2: to that community. If tour goes.
Speaker 1: Away, I'm terrified. I have no idea.
Speaker 3: I don't know where I'm going to go and talk
Speaker 3: about basketball with people who I don't like know personally.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've got like group text, I think like
Speaker 3: everybody's got I got my work Slack and some other
Speaker 3: stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But like, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be on like NBA readit all day,
Speaker 3: but maybe I'll have it to be.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll have to learn how to use Discord.
Speaker 3: I have no idea. I never even installed the app.
Speaker 3: I'm honestly like, I'm not sure. Like I was watching
Speaker 3: last night, everybody was talking about I mean, I was
Speaker 3: watching games, and then I was also listening to one
Speaker 3: of those Twitter spaces. She had like twenty thousand people
Speaker 3: on it talking about what might happen generally, people talking
Speaker 3: about moving to Masdon and all of this stuff. That's
Speaker 3: another thing I've I've yet to try. And I'm just thinking,
Speaker 3: like if that's if this is the end, that it sucks, because,
Speaker 3: like I mean, a lot of my professional opportunities have
Speaker 3: come directly because of Twitter.
Speaker 1: I met my wife on NBA Twitter. Like that's why
Speaker 1: I live in Brooklyn.
Speaker 3: That's why I'm here, Like yeah, like no, fuck, this
Speaker 3: is like yeah, like so I don't. I mean, on
Speaker 3: the one hand, like, well, at least like Twitter was
Speaker 3: around and so that could happen, so maybe it served
Speaker 3: its purpose for me.
Speaker 1: Even on the other hand, like this actually is meaningful
Speaker 1: to me. No, it's stupid.
Speaker 3: I'm mostly just saying dumb stuff and making jokes and whatever,
Speaker 3: but like it is like genuinely been a huge part
Speaker 3: of my adult life.
Speaker 2: I think I have a love hate relationship with Twitter
Speaker 2: because so much of it is toxic. But then when
Speaker 2: you realize it could just go away completely, you're like, well,
Speaker 2: where am I going to make fun of Lebron like
Speaker 2: for lying, Like where are the memes gonna go? I
Speaker 2: wonder if we're all sort of feeling that that. I
Speaker 2: guess it's like a pre loss. You know, we haven't
Speaker 2: lost it yet, but we kind of feel like we're
Speaker 2: going to, and we're not really sure how we're going
Speaker 2: to connect if it does go away. One of my
Speaker 2: favorite feature writers in the NBA, how do you how
Speaker 2: do you go about picking a subject? Like could you
Speaker 2: share some shed some light on your process of how
Speaker 2: you write a story?
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 3: I mean part of it is just like if there's
Speaker 3: a player I find interesting for whatever reason, and I
Speaker 3: feel like there's a story to be told that's like
Speaker 3: a little bit different, or I haven't maybe I just
Speaker 3: don't know that much about the guy, or maybe I
Speaker 3: know some things I'm curious about other things, Like I'll
Speaker 3: then go and start researching and seeing what other people
Speaker 3: have written and saying like is there something I can
Speaker 3: add to this? Is there something that I don't know?
Speaker 3: Then I'll try to pursue it. A lot of times,
Speaker 3: it's not much more complicated than like I like watching
Speaker 3: this player, and I think I could do a feature
Speaker 3: on him. Well, Like the most recent one I did
Speaker 3: was Jose Alvarado, and like last year, I think, like
Speaker 3: a lot of people, I didn't really know anything about
Speaker 3: him when he first like got in the Pelicans rotation,
Speaker 3: and like when I first saw his name, like he
Speaker 3: wasn't somebody I was paying attention to before the draft
Speaker 3: he went undrafted, but I saw him play I was like, well,
Speaker 3: this guy, like he plays so freaking hard, Like he
Speaker 3: is really fun to watch. And then as the season
Speaker 3: went on, it was like, all right, like this guy
Speaker 3: is a super fan favorite. He seems like he has
Speaker 3: an awesome personality, he like clearly has a cool story,
Speaker 3: and I was.
Speaker 1: Like, I'm I'm definitely profiling him one day, like I
Speaker 1: just kind of like said that to myself.
Speaker 3: It didn't end up happening last year, but like the
Speaker 3: Pelicans were like literally the first game on the regular
Speaker 3: season schedule here in Brooklyn, and I knew. I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna request him and try to make it happen
Speaker 3: and then I'll go from there. And that was that
Speaker 3: was like sort of a passion project.
Speaker 1: Like nobody, like I.
Speaker 3: Didn't have an editor assigning me a Jose Alvarado story,
Speaker 3: but like I just wanted to write about Jose Alverado
Speaker 3: because I like watching him play and I thought there
Speaker 3: was something to be done there. Other times, it could
Speaker 3: just be that like I've watched and I've noticed something
Speaker 3: about their game that is interesting, and like they've been
Speaker 3: written about one way, and I thought, and I think
Speaker 3: I got add to it by focusing on something different or.
Speaker 1: Like whatever it is.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of ways you can like start, but
Speaker 3: I think you like it has to start from a
Speaker 3: place of like genuine curiosity and it has to start
Speaker 3: from a place of like I want to do this, like.
Speaker 1: I want because if you're going to like do one.
Speaker 3: Of these and write like a fairly long one rather
Speaker 3: than just like just like bust out a column or whatever,
Speaker 3: which like I do as well. But if I'm going
Speaker 3: to invest the time to do a profile, like I
Speaker 3: want to actually find this person interesting. I don't want
Speaker 3: it to feel like it's a slog and I'm just
Speaker 3: doing it because it's my job.
Speaker 1: Like, these things are hard, some of them.
Speaker 3: Like last year, I wrote a story that went up
Speaker 3: like right at the end of the regular season on
Speaker 3: Scottie Barnes and the first interview I did was like
Speaker 3: the first week of the season and it just it.
Speaker 3: I didn't think it was going to take that long,
Speaker 3: but that just kind of happened. And sometimes it is
Speaker 3: like sometimes it's literal months.
Speaker 2: How come is it just because you have to it
Speaker 2: takes you down a direction. Then you have to find
Speaker 2: sort of people who would you know, help shed light
Speaker 2: on the thing that you're delving into, like for example,
Speaker 2: with Alvarado, you had to speak with Fred van Fleet
Speaker 2: Or is that the reason why or why does the
Speaker 2: writing process take so long?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Well, part of it is probably on me and probably
Speaker 3: shouldn't take that.
Speaker 1: Long in some of these instances where it's taking you
Speaker 1: like months and months. But yeah, usually it's related to access.
Speaker 3: Usually it's related to like I don't think I can
Speaker 3: tell this story properly without getting like maybe a follow
Speaker 3: up interview with the player, or maybe it's an old
Speaker 3: coach or something that I haven't talked to you yet,
Speaker 3: or a teammate that I want to get when the
Speaker 3: team comes back to town.
Speaker 1: Or whatever it is.
Speaker 3: But usually, yeah, usually it's just like I have like
Speaker 3: I'll start transcribing my stuff and look at what I
Speaker 3: got and try to outline it, and I'm like I'm
Speaker 3: almost there, but like I need a little bit more.
Speaker 3: And then the other part of it is sometimes it's
Speaker 3: just I'm working on multiple.
Speaker 1: Things at the same time, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Busy with other stuff, and like the like not super urgent,
Speaker 3: not super time time sensitive profile is the thing that
Speaker 3: ends up getting pushed back because if I have to
Speaker 3: like go to a i don't know, like go to
Speaker 3: a NETS practice and write about the latest Kyrie incident,
Speaker 3: then like that's what I'll do that day instead of
Speaker 3: like making a phone call about hose Alvarado or whatever.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I wanted to kind of mention some of
Speaker 2: the the articles you wrote that I wanted to hear
Speaker 2: a little bit more about. You mentioned the Scottie Barnes
Speaker 2: article and that was published on April eighth, before he
Speaker 2: won Rookie of the Year, and you said, you know,
Speaker 2: you started working on it the first week this season.
Speaker 2: What did you find interesting about him? And what did
Speaker 2: you find interesting or memorable that didn't make the piece?
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, like every thing is my first answer. Like,
Speaker 3: I was captivated by Scotty Barnes. I was interested in
Speaker 3: him before the draft because I read a few like
Speaker 3: that was the other thing was like it was sort
Speaker 3: of intimidating working on that one. So one of the
Speaker 3: reasons that took a while was I had all these
Speaker 3: like great long form Scotty Barnes profiles that like I
Speaker 3: was competing with, Like, if I was going to put
Speaker 3: something out there, I had to have some stuff that
Speaker 3: wasn't in the other ones. But I read those stories
Speaker 3: and I was like, this kid is not like a
Speaker 3: normal you know, depending on when they were written, eighteen
Speaker 3: year old, nineteen year old, whatever, it.
Speaker 1: Was kid like he.
Speaker 3: Was a guy that was talking about like being a
Speaker 3: Magic Johnson fan. He was a guy who, I mean,
Speaker 3: he was picked forth in the draft, but was coming
Speaker 3: off the bench for most of the season at Florida
Speaker 3: State and was like happy with it and not complaining
Speaker 3: about it. He was a guy that oftentimes when people
Speaker 3: were kind of trying to explain why he was viewed
Speaker 3: so highly spite these like supposed flaws in his game,
Speaker 3: like why, Okay, this guy is not necessarily a one
Speaker 3: on one scorer, yet based on what he's done in college,
Speaker 3: he's not necessarily ever going to be like a go
Speaker 3: to guy and whatever this is like to be clear
Speaker 3: the scouting reports at the time. I think he showed
Speaker 3: more of that in the NBA, but at the time
Speaker 3: it was like, but he is so good at everything else,
Speaker 3: and people love him and he wants to make guys better,
Speaker 3: and people just like you talk to him and you
Speaker 3: believe in him. Like a lot of the reasons for
Speaker 3: why people thought highly of him, a lot of the
Speaker 3: reasons for why the Raptors were confident taking him and
Speaker 3: taking him by the way when like they knew it
Speaker 3: was going to be seen by a lot of people
Speaker 3: as a huge risk as frankly the wrong pick. A
Speaker 3: lot of people immediately said it was the wrong pick,
Speaker 3: but they were betting on the upside, and the upside
Speaker 3: was based on, yeah, he's this like six seven six
Speaker 3: eight guy with like a super long wing span, and
Speaker 3: he's like really agile and skilled and all that. But
Speaker 3: I think more than that, it was the person. It
Speaker 3: was like, we think he has the super high ceiling
Speaker 3: and we think he's likely to get there because of
Speaker 3: who he is, and all of that was like just
Speaker 3: a little bit different to me, and I just kind
Speaker 3: of wanted to know more about him. I want to
Speaker 3: know exactly what, you know, his old coaches had to
Speaker 3: say about what he was like. He had an interesting
Speaker 3: family story, which I didn't end up actually being that
Speaker 3: big of a part of my story, but yeah, it
Speaker 3: was kind of it was a combination. Sometimes I'm drawn
Speaker 3: more to like the backstory and sometimes I'm drawn more
Speaker 3: to like the way they play on the court.
Speaker 1: But for me, it was both.
Speaker 3: For him, like I remember watching when the preseason last
Speaker 3: year and being like, every time he's on the court,
Speaker 3: the raptors are more interesting to me, and every time
Speaker 3: he goes to the bench, I'm a little.
Speaker 1: Like like let's get Scottie back in there.
Speaker 3: Like part of that was I think he was new,
Speaker 3: but part of that was like he is like a
Speaker 3: really exciting player to watch.
Speaker 1: I was just drawn to that guy, Like immediately, what did.
Speaker 2: You find in your sort of story search process that
Speaker 2: you found even more interesting than what you had originally thought.
Speaker 3: I think with Scotty he had this combination of I
Speaker 3: put this like he doesn't come off as arrogant, like
Speaker 3: he he talks a lot about you know, what's best
Speaker 3: for the team, just want to do with the coach
Speaker 3: asks them. Like even in my research, I remember finding
Speaker 3: like a game winner he had hit at Florida State,
Speaker 3: and he like basically didn't want to give himself any
Speaker 3: credit for making the game winner. While at the same time,
Speaker 3: like if you talk to people around him and even
Speaker 3: if you ask him like like direct questions about his
Speaker 3: own game, Like he has this belief in himself and
Speaker 3: this confidence that is like not it's it's not humble,
Speaker 3: it's not it's like he believes that he belongs and
Speaker 3: he always kind of has and I think he's had
Speaker 3: a vision for himself honestly since he was in high
Speaker 3: school of like I'm going to get to the NBA,
Speaker 3: and when I get there, I'm not going to be
Speaker 3: just another NBA player. There's another story that came out
Speaker 3: after mine that I was jealous of, where it was
Speaker 3: like a list of his like affirmations and goals, and
Speaker 3: like one of them was like, I want to be
Speaker 3: the best player on the court at all times when
Speaker 3: I'm on the court. Like one of them was like,
Speaker 3: I want to end Rookie of the Year. And it's
Speaker 3: like to step into his situation like that where even
Speaker 3: though like what he's saying, like when he's asked about,
Speaker 3: like you know, the team and his rookie season, he's like, I.
Speaker 1: Just want to fit in. I want to make other
Speaker 1: guys better.
Speaker 3: I want everybody to be smiling and having fun and
Speaker 3: all that. That's all true, but he also believes it
Speaker 3: like doing it that way, like he can dominate a
Speaker 3: game that way, and I think he he is a
Speaker 3: guy that like, yes, the Raptors have had to like
Speaker 3: work with him on like being more assertive and aggressive
Speaker 3: and looking to score, because then if you're seen as
Speaker 3: a huge threat scoring, like you can go do the
Speaker 3: thing you actually want to do, which is pass the ball.
Speaker 3: And rack up a bunch of assists and be a
Speaker 3: point guard. But at the same time as them trying
Speaker 3: to like make him be more aggressive that way. I
Speaker 3: don't think that's this thing where he's like looking in
Speaker 3: this situation kind of like I'm sure of himself.
Speaker 1: Or intimidated or anything like that.
Speaker 3: I think he truly has had a plan, and he's
Speaker 3: like been pretty bold about following that plan and working
Speaker 3: toward it, even like the way that he approached the
Speaker 3: pre draft stuff like a year and a half ago,
Speaker 3: where he like very clearly like wanted to show teams
Speaker 3: that he could do a few things that were sort
Speaker 3: of like seen as knocks on him and show teams like,
Speaker 3: I've gotten better since the end of last year, and
Speaker 3: you're going to see that if you get in the
Speaker 3: gym with me.
Speaker 1: And also like I have a.
Speaker 3: Plan for these interviews where you're going to come out
Speaker 3: of here like loving me and wanting to spend more
Speaker 3: time with me, and you're gonna be texting me after
Speaker 3: these interviews, and they were like executives were doing that.
Speaker 3: Like I think it is who he is. It comes
Speaker 3: very naturally to him. It's easy for him. But I
Speaker 3: think also like he's very smart, and I think he
Speaker 3: sees the big picture, and I think he is like,
Speaker 3: you know, he kind of had a blueprint for what
Speaker 3: he wanted to be from a pretty young age, and like,
Speaker 3: I had absolutely no idea about any of that before
Speaker 3: I started recording it.