WEBVTT - How We’re Learning to Talk to Animals 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.960 Welcome to Stuff you should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.960 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck. 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.000 And I was gonna say Jerry's here, but she totally 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:17.880 flaked on us. 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.680 And this is stuff you should know. Yeah, I've never 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:24.079 wanted to be able to make a dolphin sound. 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:25.520 More in my life. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:32.400 I mean, that was medium better than I could do. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.559 Well, let's hear yours. I put I've heard better out there. 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.840 No, I mean I can't. I don't even want to try. Okay, 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.640 how about this bet my nose. I'm a dolphin. 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:44.160 That was good. 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.560 A dolphin that speaks English is pretty impressive, Chuck. 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:48.720 I like that interpretation. 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:56.800 Yeah, Usa, so USA and Canada. So we're talking today. 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.240 The reason we're trying to speak dolphin, Chuck, is because 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:04.080 we're talking about anim communication. And just to clear things 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.600 up right out of the gate, we're not talking about 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.880 animal communication where we try to teach animals to speak 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:16.880 human languages, whether it be sign language, English, whatever. Yeah, 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.000 we already did that in our Live Coco the Gorilla episode. 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:20.840 Yeah. 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:22.920 Now we're going the other way here because there's a 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:27.480 whole other tranche. As the French would say, of research 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:35.520 that is going into listening to, decoding, understanding and potentially 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.720 speaking animal animal languages. 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.520 Yeah, and this is one. It's like one of the 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:46.920 rare cases whereas we'll see for a lot of year, 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:52.720 science was like, animals don't do this, Like they grunt 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.160 at each other, they make little instinctual noises, but they're 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.400 not really communicating with each other or us. Don't kid yourself. 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.560 And this is a rare case where I'm like, I 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:06.400 don't care what science says. My pets speak to me 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:09.480 and I understand what they're saying. 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.840 Yeah, no, this researching this, I was haunted by the 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.080 ghost of Tracy Wilson. Do you remember like how hard 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.080 core she was about not anthropomorphizing years back? 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.600 Yeah, sorry, Will, Yeah, sorry Tracy. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:23.640 I do it. 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.919 And Tracy's a cat person, I know for it, she 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.840 refuses to speak to her cat. No, I'm sure that's 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:33.680 not true, but yeah, I mean that's a that's a 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.880 fair point, and I think we've made that point many 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.840 times whenever we've talked about pets like communicating or I 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.640 think anytime we talk about pets, we kind of both 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.760 agree that no, there's they're obviously communicating in ways we're 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.560 just not fully aware of. And it's actually pretty anthropercentric 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:55.120 to just assume that because we don't understand it, they're 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.639 not doing it. Luckily, Like I said, there's a whole 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:04.200 tranche of search that is assuming no, these these animals 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:10.120 have communication patterns that yeah, kind of follow the same 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:15.720 general idea of human language. Yeah, and as such we 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.080 have a chance of being able to understand it. But 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.320 the whole, the whole thing is based on this idea. 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:24.000 Like you said, science has long thought like that there 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.680 was not that any any sounds they make were instinctual, 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.640 that there wasn't any purpose behind them. It was just 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.760 that it was an involuntary response to something that evolution 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.280 had kind of bred into that animal. And that was 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.240 also predicated on this idea that Renee Descartes put out there, 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.840 which is animals have like no inner lives whatsoever, only 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:44.440 humans do. 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:44.960 Boo. 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.200 Yeah, I'm very disappointed with Descartes, and I know we've 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:52.520 talked about this before, probably multiple times, but it bears 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:58.160 repeating because he set that tone for centuries to follow. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.080 Yeah, oh for sure. But I mean you needn't only 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.080 look at your dog and to a certain degree, your 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.720 cat but you know the first couple of animals we're 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.080 going to talk about that Olivia helped us with this 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.200 that she was keen to point out humans have been 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:18.400 around for a while and you know, communicate with if 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:23.600 you are the owner, slash, you know, mother, father, caretaker 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.120 of these animals. We're talking about dogs and horses, and 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.440 if you have ever had a dog, you know what 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.800 at least this one thing is. And that's called puppy 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:38.120 dog eyes. And this is a trade. It's actually a 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:43.840 muscle called the loam, the lam, the levator anguli oculi 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:50.840 media alis cristo. It's a muscle in the eyebrow basically 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.920 of a dog that evolved from a wolf. Like They've 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.560 done studies and found that wolves don't still have this 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.279 or wolves don't have this right and that the only 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.240 dog out of like the eight breeds they studied that 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.800 didn't evolve this way was the Siberian husky, which is 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:11.800 I guess closely related to a wolf. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:13.719 It's a wolf posing as a dog. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.080 And I don't know if you've ever known huskies. I'm 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.400 not knocking any breed. I like huskies just fine. I've 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:22.880 known a few, but and I've never been able to 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.360 have a good connection with them. Yeah, and that may 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.520 be part of the reason is that there haven't evolved 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.640 as far away as as you know we have with 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:33.400 our other domesticated friends. 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:34.599 That's a great point. 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.120 But they have done studies. There was one published in 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:42.560 the proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences who studied 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.320 dogs out for adoption at like a you know, what 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:47.840 do you call it? Well, I can't even think. 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:49.160 Of the word an adoption dry. 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.359 Sure, it wouldn't a dry, but just in the in 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:52.839 the pound. 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.880 Okay, what do you call those? Though? An animal shelter? 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:00.160 Animal shelter. You know how the easiest word won't come 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:01.320 to you sometimes. 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:03.880 Yeah, I do. I've been there, buddy, it's very frustrating. 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:08.400 Anyway, sheltered dogs. And they found they studied all these dogs, 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.240 like hundreds and hundreds of them over long periods of time, 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.600 and the found that the dogs to use these lone 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:18.559 muscles to make their eyes bigger and raise that inner 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.040 brow were adopted quicker. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:20.960 Yeah. 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:26.000 I think it has to do with exaggerating the shape 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.800 of the eyes, which, as we've talked about the Kinder schema. 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.880 I believe in the science of cute Yeah, that would 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:34.440 just make them automatically cuter. 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:38.560 Yeah, bigger eyes. I mean, that's why those Disney characters 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:39.200 have big eyes. 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:44.480 But the exactly, but the point of this is that dogs. 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:48.080 We have clear evidence that dogs evolved a way to 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:54.320 be expressive through their facial expressions in ways that affect humans. 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.479 And that's a form of communication, exactly. That's just one 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:01.320 form of communication. So it isn't anthe promorphizing to say that, 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.960 you know, dogs have emotions and that they express these 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:09.240 emotions like things like being happy to see their their friend, 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.960 their human friend. There's a guy named ecologist Carl Sephina, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.680 and he points out that his whole thing is like 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.240 dogs love us. Clearly, it's clear as day. Anybody who 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.360 owns a dog knows this, and anybody who says otherwise 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.320 is just being a real stick in the mud, basically. 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.480 But he pointed out that really the the whole thing 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:37.960 broke open. Finally, Descartes Smelly Corpse was finally cast off 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:44.560 of the animal behavior field in the sixties, I believe 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:50.680 when observational studies of animals really started in earnest thanks 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.680 to people like Jane Goodall and I can't remember who 0:07:54.720 --> 0:08:00.000 her Lewis leaky that those people were coming back with report. 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.600 It's like, guys, these are these animals clearly interact with 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:08.800 one another in ways that humans would consider empathy. They're communicating, 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.280 they're doing all sorts of stuff we supposedly think they 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:16.480 can't and then today it's being demonstrated. All of these 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:21.480 these observations are being proven because we've fashioned MRI machines 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.160 that dogs can go in, and we don't like, sedate 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:27.480 the dog and put them in there. It's not going 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.400 to have any effect. They've made these open machines and 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.720 then they kind of introduce them to the dogs, and 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.440 the dogs free to come or go in the MRI, 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.640 and if the dog says there long enough, they can 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.720 study the dog's brain activity and what they're seeing is Nope, 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.720 these these dogs are smart. They definitely have an inner life, 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.400 and most of what we're taking as emotional communication is 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:49.040 probably totally correct. 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.240 Yeah, and if they sit there long enough, they're good 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:52.800 boys and good girls. 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.320 That's right, and they get treats, that's right. 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:57.640 We also have horses. If you want to look at 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:01.640 another animal that humans have probably had the longest relationship with, 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:06.440 and there's a horse trainer slash neuroscientist, which is a 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.119 very handy thing if you're going to talk about animal communication. 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:14.199 Her name is Janet Jones, not the former gymnasts who 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.360 was married to Wayne Gretzky. Remember, Oh, I knew. 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.360 That name sounded familiar, but I didn't know why. 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.920 I say former gymnast, former actress. She was a gymnast too, though, right. 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.280 I haven't paid that much attention to Wayne Gretzky's marital. 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:34.400 Life anyway, different Janet Jones, and she said that horses 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:39.360 and humans are are different because humans evolved into predators, 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:43.720 horses evolved from prey species, So like we have different 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.120 ways of looking at the world when you're riding a 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:50.000 horse around outside, and we communicate that to one another, 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.360 you know. Also throwing the fact that horses have a 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:56.360 three hundred and forty degree range of vision with those awesome, 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.760 humongous eyes on the sides of their heads. 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.480 Yeah, that last degrees really ticks horses. 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.920 It really does. But if you're like, if you're riding 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.480 along and a horse, a horse might be scared about. 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.559 And Olivia uses a great illustration of like an umbrella opening. 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.280 It might spook a horse, but the human's like, Hey, 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.240 that's just an umbrella. So they're gonna, you know, sitting 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.920 atop the horse. They're going to relax the horse by 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:22.880 you know, I'm not a horse rider certainly know how 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.080 you do this, but by moving your body and flexing 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.920 your muscles in a certain way with the rhythm of 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:30.760 the horse to let them know that it's cool. 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:31.800 Right. 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.840 So, what Janet Jones is basically saying is she wrote 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.160 this really cool article called Becoming a Centaur and aon 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:45.600 is that through this communication that horses and humans have 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.640 have co evolved together to understand with one another and 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.400 to be able to train one another with you're becoming 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.720 like kind of a super organism for that time where 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.080 you are a top of horse, yeah, and the horses 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:01.600 below you and you guys are working conjuncture together, sharing 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:02.679 sensory information. 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.000 I love that. I want to ride more horses in 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:06.560 my life. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.400 There's a that's a great, great thing to try to do, Chuck, I've. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.040 Only done it a couple of times that I loved it. 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.120 I haven't for a really long time. I used to 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.760 as a kid a lot more. I have it on 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:18.400 the prairie. 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.880 Yeah, when you were when you were westward bound. 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.319 Yeah, in the wagon train. 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.800 Birds, we're gonna talk a lot about birds, because obviously 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:33.200 bird vocalizations are you can just listen to birds and 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:37.600 and tell that they are specific and that that probably 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.600 means something. But humans and birds interact in different ways 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:46.160 around the world. Specifically, a couple of tribes, the Jahua 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:50.319 people in Mozambique and the Hods of Tanzania both use 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.600 what are called honeyguides, and they are birds that they 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.960 can call. They each you know, use different calls in 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.760 their inner respective places to call over these birds, and 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.600 the birds come a flying in and say, hey, follow 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:05.640 me and we'll show you the honey, and they go 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:07.640 and get the honey. And if you're asking, like, well, 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:09.720 why in the world would they do this, it's because 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.400 the birds get the wax after they're finished, so it's 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.440 a mutually beneficial relationship. 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.080 Yeah, And they've actually tested to make sure it's not 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.760 just the presence of humans making sounds that catch the 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:25.800 birds attention and then the birds associate humans with getting honey. 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:30.719 They've tested other like control sounds, but there are specific 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:36.840 calls that Jahwua people use. It's like a bird something 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:41.080 like that, and that is what the honey guides respond to. 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.280 They don't respond to hey, honeyguide or anything like that. 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.200 They respond to this call that the Jahua people have 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:51.320 been using for countless generations, and that the Jahwa have 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.520 been passing down from generation to generation. That also means 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.679 that the honey guides wild birds, not tamed in any way. 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.719 They're not coerced to do this. They're wild animals who 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:05.760 clearly communicate with humans. They're passing down that that burr 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.160 hum sound that a Jahua person makes in the woods 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.760 means go find that person and take them to some honey, 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.400 and they'll they'll leave. The honey comes for you. Like 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:19.200 people and birds passing down this common information that forms 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:20.719 the symbiotic relationship. 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:22.200 That's nuts. 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.600 Yeah, And I imagine if they said, hey, honey guides, 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.680 come over here, the birds would say, why else speak 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:30.199 in English? 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:30.640 Right? 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:31.520 That's really weird. 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:33.640 Yeah, it happened to burr hume. 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.440 They're also, of course, and we're not going to get, 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.880 you know, too much into this, but you know, for hunters, 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.880 all kinds of mating calls and and I guess you 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:43.400 don't have to hunt to use a maiding call if 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.120 you want to. If you want to call a mooseover 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.960 just to say hello, you could use a moose mating call, 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.720 but all kinds of and it's not just mating calls, 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.560 but usually it's some kind of mating call for any 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:55.800 kind of game that you're hunting, or ducks or stuff 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:56.120 like that. 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:58.520 Yeah, I crossed that part. 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.480 Out those people communicating with animals at the very least. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.520 So you mentioned birds and how we're going to talk 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:10.360 about birds a lot. But birds are just an obvious 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:13.160 place to start, and that's where humans kind of started 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.640 in tracking animal communication, whether they realized it was animal 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.600 communication or not. Bird song has always kind of captured 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:25.600 the human imagination and apparently back in the day they 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:31.520 started to try to assign musical notation to recording bird 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.480 song by hand on paper. Good luck, right, And then 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.120 as you know, the technology progressed and we got better 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.840 at recording and reproducing sound. One of the things that 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.080 we really started compiling a lot of we're bird song. 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.120 Bird songs is bird song plural and singular? 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:52.240 I feel like the kind of word that would be 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:53.040 I think, so. 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:54.520 Bird's song guy. 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:00.480 And there's actually a really great collection at Cornell. There 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:04.720 are Ornithology Lab has what's called the McAuley Library. And 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.000 I've got this app called Merlin. It's a bird identification app. 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:09.800 It's free. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:10.320 I think. 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.880 You just have to sign up with your email and 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.000 if you hear a bird call, you just open Merlin 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:17.640 and it's like Shazam for birds. 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:18.680 Amazing. 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.560 It is amazing and like it just sits there and 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:24.360 listens and then it goes, oh is it this burden. 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:25.920 It shows you a picture and tells you what that 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.360 bird is, and you say, that's exactly what bird that is. 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.920 Thanks Merlin. Merlin gives you a wink and goes back 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:31.720 to sleep. 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:32.080 In your phone. 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.720 Yeah, it's It's a very popular app and very popular 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.760 in my family. We use it all the time. A 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.480 lot of We have a lot of identification apps that 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:45.800 are really handy. We have like bird apps and plant 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.480 of course and flower apps, and we has those. And 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.200 then I have an art app where you can point 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:55.480 it at a painting or something and it'll it'll tell 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:57.280 you if it's in the database. Of course, it'll tell 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:57.720 you who it is. 0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:58.520 Cubist. 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.360 Now it'll tell you the actual artist I got, you know, 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:04.280 Max Cubist. 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.560 So let me just set this up real quick, Chuck 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.560 and I say we take a break. But although people 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.720 were like, okay, animals have somewhat richer inner lives than 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.840 we had always suspected, but they're still not using anything 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:23.480 like what we would consider language. That carried on until 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.560 the seventies until a couple of studies came through chick 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:28.840 the legs out from under that what a. 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:53.960 Great cliffy, So I said, cliffy. 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.960 People know that means cliffhanger. I hope longtime listeners to 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.280 longtime listeners. So, yeah, you were talking about until the seventies, 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.440 and that's what I mentioned that science had always kind 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.280 of poo pooed it, and it was in the seventies 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.360 where people finally started you know, there were some sort 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.199 of rogue hippie scientists here and there that was like 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.840 nobody was listening to basically. But in the seventies is 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:16.840 when a couple of big studies came out that you 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.480 mentioned pre break. One was in nineteen seventy seven a 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.480 couple of primate scientists named Robert C. Farth say Farth 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.480 and Dorothy Cheney, and they were working with one of 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.840 those hippies, Peter Marler, who was an animal communication expert. 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.680 When that wasn't cool. And they were studying vervet monkeys 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:39.800 and Kenya, and this is a pretty big breakthrough and 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:44.080 pretty remarkable. They found that they they are using different 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.159 we're going to say things like words for lack of 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:51.640 a better term, sounds, vocalizations, but they used different words 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:56.720 for different threats. So like they noticed that like something 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.159 flying like an eagle versus something on the ground like 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.600 a snake like a python, they would use those to 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.360 indicate one or the other. And they learned this by 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.400 making recordings of it. And when they played it, sure enough, 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.560 the monkey would look up into the sky or search 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.159 the ground around them for the snake. 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.640 Yeah, depending on what call they played. 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.760 Back, that's right, not depending on what Brian Adams song 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:19.240 they played. 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:26.520 So okay, smarty, So you can still make a case that, okay, 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.439 so what they have these specific words for snake or 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.760 for eagle, But it doesn't mean that it's anything more 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.480 than instinct for a monkey to utter this particular cry 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.359 when it sees a snake, and other monkeys to respond 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.639 in kind, And it's all innate and none of it 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:48.720 means that they're using grammar or language. It's okay, fine, fine, 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.320 just keep waiting a few more years, and we're going 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:57.000 to go forward to Klaus Zuberbueler, great name, who is Swiss, 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:01.119 as people who name their family's Zuber are wont to be. 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:08.119 He studied the Campbell's monkeys in the Cote Duvoir, I 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:13.919 believe the tomato Campbell's monkeys, and he found nothing. 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:16.400 Not Campbell's tomato soup. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:22.360 Yeah, and he found that they actually use suffixes. Right, 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.200 So if they use the alarm called crock or crack 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:28.879 k r a K, that's how they spelled it, not 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:33.080 the Campbell's monkeys, but Zuberbueler and his friends, Yeah, that 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:37.719 means leopard is coming, but crack ou means it's just 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.479 a general alarm like lookout or heads up or something 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.639 like this. They can also like supplement crack or crack 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:49.000 oo with booms that they will make. It can mean 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.159 like come this way. They can mean that there's a 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.239 falling tree branch, depending on if they amend it with 0:19:55.359 --> 0:20:00.480 the suffix Ooh. So Zuberbueler is saying, like, guys, this 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:05.320 is grammar. Those are words. This cannot possibly just be instinctual. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.720 And even if it is instinctual, then that would suggest 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.600 that animals, at least some types of monkeys have a 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.480 language instinct too. Who that's a whole other ball of wax, 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:20.320 like we talked about before. But Zuberbueler's like, dude, come on, 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:22.960 and people started to finally be like, all right, fine, 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.679 we'll kind of get on board with this idea that 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.520 the animals are using something like language possibly. 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.879 Yeah, And he even, you know, as an example of 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:35.159 how it's something that humans can potentially understand once they 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.680 learn it, he was warned off by a leopard by 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:41.960 hearing the leopard call apparently, and this was in a 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.080 radio lab at one point shout out to Radio Lab, 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.200 Yeah some of the ogs like us. But yeah, zuber 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.320 Bueler was like, hey, you know, I heard them sound 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.679 the leopard alarm, and that meant that I needed to to, 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:56.760 you know, be watchful. 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.240 Yeah they weren't. I didn't understand. I didn't go listen 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.000 to that episode of Radio Lab, So I'm not sure 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.639 if they were warning him or he was just paying 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:05.760 attention that they were. 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.280 I think it's that okay, So I think, but who knows, 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:11.360 Maybe they're like Zuberbueler. 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:15.119 He spoke, he spoke Campbell's monkey for that moment and 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.320 it helped them out. Yeah, sure so, and it wasn't 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:23.240 just a zuberbueler who did. Apparently other animals, including birds 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:26.399 and other monkeys that live around Campbell's monkeys have learned 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:30.840 what crock or crack means too and will respond in kind. 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:37.040 So there's evidence that there's interspecial communication, and not necessarily 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.320 that monkey talking to that bird, but that bird just 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:43.600 from being around these monkeys using language, picking up certain 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.480 words and speaking monkey ease, even though the bird actually 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:48.119 speaks parodies or something. 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:51.560 Yeah. I mean, it's not any different, I think than 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.680 you know. I have cats and dogs, and they each 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:59.639 have their own respective feeding times and programs and systems 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:04.040 and treat systems, and sometimes one will get a little 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:06.680 of the other. Like, for instance, my dog Charlie will 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:10.159 lick the wet cat food spoon after I give them 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:15.439 their wet cat food. So now Charlie knows when I say, uh, 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:17.320 do you want your good stuff, which is what I 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:19.720 say to the cats, and they come running in there 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:22.679 for the wet food, Charlie knows, Hey, that's when I 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:26.600 get to lick that spoon. So I'm speaking English and 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:30.440 each of these animals is understanding what I'm saying, even 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:34.520 though for Charlie I'm speaking cat, although that's really not true. 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:35.119