WEBVTT - The USGA's Mike Whan and Thomas Pagel on Universal Rollback 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.960 And when I find my ball in a brid egg 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:11.280 Friday egg, the dreaded Friday Friday, Frida Egg Frida egg. 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.239 Bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:37.960 the course. Welcome to the Friday Golf Podcast. I'm Garrett Morrison, 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:42.240 and today we're talking about rollback with two high level 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:47.040 USGA officials. Our guests are Mike Wan, the CEO of 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:51.800 the USGA, and Thomas Pagel, the Chief Governance Officer. So 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:55.480 on Wednesday, the USGA and RNA announced that they would 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:59.760 institute a universal rollback of the golf ball starting in 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:03.640 twenty eight for elite competition and filtering down to the 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.920 amateur game by twenty thirty. One of the key revelations 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:10.920 of this announcement is that the governing bodies expect the 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.720 impact of the new ball to be substantially less on 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:19.480 the average amateur's game than has been reported so far. 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.800 And we'll get into some of those details. So if 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:26.000 you've listened to this podcast before, you know that I 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:30.000 favor a rollback. In fact, i'd get behind a larger 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.600 rollback than the one that the USGA and RNA have 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.600 been intending to carry out here. But having Mike One 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.080 and Thomas Pagel on this podcast at this moment, I 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.720 think is an opportunity to pose to them some challenging 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.440 questions to get their responses to some common criticisms of 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.720 the rollback. So I'm hoping to represent not just my 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:56.200 perspective on this issue, but also bring in the main 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.520 counter arguments that I've been seeing, because I think it's 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:04.280 important to subject the governing bodies ideas to some scrutiny here. Now, 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:06.640 before we get into my interview with Mike Wan and 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.040 Thomas Pegel, I want to say a few words about 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.880 our sponsor for this episode, Fat Cork. Fat Cork works 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:17.320 exclusively with small, family run grower champagne houses. 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They handwrite all gift notes on 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.400 nice stationery and a human will answer your call or email. 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.240 So check out fat Cork and with that, here is 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:54.600 my interview with Mike Wan and Thomas Pagel All right. 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:58.160 I am joined by Mike Wan and Thomas Pagel of 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.000 the USGA. I know it's been a busy day for 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.200 the two of you. You've both done a lot of 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.160 talking so far, So thank you so much for joining me, 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.680 and let's get right into it. You know, today was 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.560 a big day. Back in March, the governing bodies announced 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:20.080 the possibility of a model local rule that would roll 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:22.680 back the golf ball just for elite levels of competition, 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.000 and today it was announced that the direction is more 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:30.320 for a universal rollback. So Mike, why don't we start 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.760 with you? How did we get to this point? 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:36.240 It even goes back farther than that, Jared, if you 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.960 go back a year before the MLR announcement, we had 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.599 announced it across the board ball at speed between one 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:43.719 hundred and twenty five one hundred and twenty seven miles 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:48.359 an hour of clubhead speed in conjunction with an MLR club. 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.039 So we've definitely made some changes along the way. And 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:54.000 as Thomas and I have said many times, if you're 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.440 going to call something a notice in comment period or 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.479 in areas of interest and have a comment period, you're 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.920 going to get comments. And when you get quality feedback, 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.279 and I would say even the feedback I didn't want 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.560 to hear was quality feedback. It requires you to kind 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.880 of think it through. So answering your specific question. When 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:13.839 we were a year ago and came to the market, 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.080 we you know, we had we believed from day one 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.159 that one of our four core tenants was minimize any 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:24.279 significant impact. Quite frankly, it was really have no discernible 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.520 impact on the enjoyment of the game for the amateur, 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:32.520 for the amateur, your recreational player. And so with a 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:36.160 model local rule, we could really address distance, specifically at 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.520 the elite male level, where distance was it was most concerning. 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.480 We could probably do that a little bit more significantly 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:44.920 than we can do across the board, and we could 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:48.080 sort of leave the rest of the game untouched, which 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.160 sounds great. See it still sounds great when I say 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.080 it to you, But when you go out and have 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:52.839 those comments. 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.360 It wasn't just Tours, but it was you. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.960 Know, PJ of America, a couple of couple of strong manufacturers, 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.080 and and even some individual consumer groups that came to 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.359 us and said, hey, losing the magic between what the 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:09.440 pros play and what the average recreational player can player 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:11.440 wants to play. You know, if you're sitting in a 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.599 pro am and that person is playing the same game, 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.640 same equipment, same hole as you, that difference is part. 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.520 Of the uniqueness that makes golf golf. And so I 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.520 didn't I don't really want to argue that. We just 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:22.800 listened to that and realized. 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:27.479 That that was really a universal Almost everybody's most significant 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.520 piece of comment to us was if you can figure 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.200 out a way to address distance long term, but not 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.200 do it in this model, local rule, split way, that 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.880 would be our preference. So and I remember saying to 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.839 a couple of folks, including a couple of tours, you 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.479 know that if I do this across the board, I've 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.200 got to really reduce the severity of this because I'm 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.120 not going to have any real significant impact on the 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.760 recreational game. I'm going to have to take longer to 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.279 get to market because I'm going to ask manufacturers to 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.880 make ball changes across their line. And you know they, 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:00.960 you know, they both knew that and like that less 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.720 severity longer in the marketplace, which probably a good thing. 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:05.920 So, and answer your question, where did we get there? 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.919 We took a different path, and in really listening to 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:10.320 the marketplace on that path. 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:12.640 It was clear to us, and actually made clear to. 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.040 Us directly in a couple of cases, that if you're 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.800 going to make a change on distance, our overwhelming preference 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:20.960 would be to do so and keeping the game under 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.440 one set of rules, set of regulations, if you will, 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:26.040 And that's what got us to hear. And then once 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.560 you start talking about and across the board change, the 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.920 first question you can have is can the change be 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.000 significant enough to matter while at the same time making 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.240 sure that you don't kill the momentum or excitement or 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:42.120 joining force of this game. And that's what this is. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.239 This the outcome of this is really a delicate balance, 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:47.440 if you will. It's it's finding the right balance to 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.239 say this would be significant enough to blow the pace 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.600 of growth at the high at the high elite level 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.280 for quite a while. At the same time, you know, 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.320 if the average recreational golfer moves their team markers up 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.840 through or four yards a non issue for them. So 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.720 doesn't mean it's easy, doesn't mean everybody has to like it. 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:05.360 But to answer your question, that's how you kind of 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:07.480 get from one end to the other end. Even the 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:11.240 folks that don't necessarily love everything about this outcome. The 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.040 folks that really had a voice in this thing, and 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.720 really we're pushing hard on model local rule see themselves 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:18.920 in this and they should because it was their voices 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.280 that really talked us back into this direction. 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.760 Thomas, could you take me into what actually is going 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:28.360 to change when it comes to the testing of golf 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:33.280 balls for conformity with USGA and RNA rules. 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.800 Yeah, Garrett, what we're talking about is updating the test 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.600 conditions for what we call the Overall Distance Standard, which 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.600 is the measure by which we governor regulate golf balls. 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:43.560 It's been in place for almost fifty years. It was 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:47.160 first established in nineteen seventy six, and the test has 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.679 never been a measure of success, never been a measure 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.080 of scoring. It truly has been about how do we 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:56.319 regulate golf balls to manage their distance or their efficiency 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.360 or effectiveness when in the hands of the longest players 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:01.880 in the game. When that was first established in nineteen 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.320 seventy six, the late Frank Thomas did some research that 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.120 was a data set of one. There was a golfer 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:09.640 at the time that was known to be a long hitter, 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:11.360 and he hit a whole bunch of balls and we 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:13.520 arrived at one hundred and nine mile an hour swing speed. 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.320 It's been updated several times since nineteen eighty. There were 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:18.000 some small updates, and then again in two thousand and two, 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.800 and in two thousand and four again we stepped back 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:22.920 and looked and that one hundred and nine miles an 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.480 hour was no longer reflective of the longest hitters at 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.080 that time, so we updated the clubhead speed to one 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.559 hundred and twenty miles an hour. As we sit here today, 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:33.120 in that one hundred and twenty miles an hour, by 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.040 the way, on our test, which doesn't achieve a smash 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.719 factor one to five, it's more of like a one 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.120 to four to seven. Did the ball speed that's produced 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:41.680 at one hundred and twenty miles an hours one hundred 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:43.719 and seventy six miles an hour. So as we sit 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.040 here today, we look at testing equipment at one hundred 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.679 and seventy six miles an hour and step back and 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.840 that's not reflective of the longest hitters of the game, 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.040 and so we're going to update that to one hundred 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.480 and eighty three miles an hour. We're also going to 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:58.800 adjust the launch conditions so we're going to go from 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:01.679 a ten degree launch angle to an eleven degree launch angle. Again, 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.559 as players try and achieve more distance, they're looking for 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.120 higher launch angles, so trying to reflect the longest golfers, 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.400 and also lowering the spin from twenty five to twenty 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:12.680 down to twenty two hundred, again trying to be more 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.000 reflective of the conditions those longest players are trying to achieve. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:20.440 So this really is about ensuring that our testing standards 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.960 are relevant to the current game. And as we look 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:26.280 at there's a lot of data you can look at. 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.160 We've looked at the data the same over the last 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:33.120 forty years, not only distance and the amount of distance increases, 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:37.360 but also how we measure or look at the longest players. 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.760 And if you look in twenty twenty three, the average 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.120 of the top twenty five longest players in the PGA Tour, 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.440 their ball speed was right around one eighty three. So 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.520 that's in twenty twenty three, you know, four years before 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.800 we're going to implement this in twenty and twenty eight. 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:55.079 If we go backwards, we didn't have shot link or 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.280 robust data set in two thousand and four, but in 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.720 two thousand and seven when that was first of the 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.600 average of the top twenty five longest players over the 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.440 two thousand and seven PGA Tour season was one hundred 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:08.560 and seventy six, which is how we measure today. So 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.200 it shows the trend line of how we got here 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.480 year over year, but it also shows that we've been 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.240 consistent in how we've updated the standard over the years, 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.240 again trying to regulate or manage the distance of a 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.800 golf ball, not necessarily looking at measures of success or scoring. 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:27.240 Thomas, Where does this come down to for the average 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:32.640 player in terms of impact on their average distance off 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:33.240 the tee? 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.200 Well, yeah, let's start with the recreational golfer, because that's 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.480 you know, the audits, that's who we're speaking to. It's 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.240 going to be five yards or less. Right, So, when 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.959 we're looking at clubhead speeds and launch conditions of the 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.480 average recreational golfers, the average male recreational golfer is going 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.280 to be right around three to five yards. The average 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.440 recreational female is going to be close to that one 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:56.959 to three yard range. So as swing speeds decrease as 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.760 spin increases, the impact to those recreational golf golfers is 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:02.839 really going to be minimal, and so when Mike talks 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.160 about you know, the three yards, pick up the t's 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.320 and move them forward. That's really what we're looking at. 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:11.120 And the other thing is this is limited to drivers, right, 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.679 just given our launch conditions. As recreational golfers, by the 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:16.960 time you two to three ordre hybrid, you're probably not 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.240 going to notice. At the highest level those players that 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.199 achieve ball speeds of one eighty three or higher, which 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.640 is what we're testing at, the impact is probably thirteen 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.360 to fifteen yards, but we would still estimate that by 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:30.439 the time they get to their five iron, given the 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.440 launch conditions, they won't see a distance decrease from today. 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.040 So a lot of people have been talking, you know, 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:38.720 this is going to be ten percent through the bag. 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.360 That's just certainly not the case. We're increasing the test 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.480 speed by about just under four percent, and that's around 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.040 the impact that we're going to have on golfers. But 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.920 again the recreational game, we really are looking at the driver. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.560 That's where the impact will be. And another point for 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.480 the recreational game is as we look at the current 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:01.280 list of conforming balls that we have post today, about 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.280 a third of those balls would meet the standard that 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.520 we're going to put into effect in twenty twenty eight. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:08.000 And so what we mean by that, we're not talking 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.800 balls you see at elite level competitions, but certainly balls 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.960 that are manufactured and marketed and played by recreational golfers 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.600 will continue to conform in twenty twenty eight when this 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.320 goes into effect, and certainly in twenty thirty when it 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.120 goes into effect for the recreational game. 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.480 So when it comes to balls that might not be 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.679 affected by this new standard, we're sort of talking about 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:33.760 the soft cover or low compression models of golf balls, 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:35.160 as that's sort of what we're talking about. 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.360 Yeah, the two or three layer balls that have a 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.880 different cover that aren't necessarily you're a than that just 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.280 have different properties that will continue to conform. 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:47.800 Great Now, Mike, in terms of what the USGA and 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:53.960 RNA know about how average golfers feel about the potential 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:58.720 of a golf ball rollback across the game, what sense 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.680 have you gotten or or what specific studies have you 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:07.920 done to assess the general feeling about this prospect among 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:10.800 the players who play the game recreationally. 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.120 Yeah, The difficult part of this, Garrett, is when you 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:15.360 if you ask people how do you feel about being 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.000 shorter in a few years, We don't really have to 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.960 do a study for that, right, And And what we've 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.120 quickly learned in this sort of early weekend before we 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.920 announced where some of the news got leaked is, you know, 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:27.800 the desire for a lot of people to kind of 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.120 sensationalize this and you know, generate more clicks and more 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.040 calls and more more craziness. 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.680 And in today's world, it's easier, it's easier to believe 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:37.840 the bad stuff than the fact. 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.080 So, as I've said a few times today, if you 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:42.920 want to listen to the folks that will tell you 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:44.760 this is going to take twenty yards off your drive, 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:46.560 then feel free to listen to them. 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:48.520 It's not based in any kind of fact. It's you know, 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:49.800 it's it's myth based. 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.160 I mean, we're being even the different data when we 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.360 when we say zero to five yards, did the average 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.600 recreational golfer that's we took those estimates, that took them 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.440 to independent third party ball expert as well and just said, hey, 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:03.880 what are you what are your ranges, and they came 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.000 back on our same ranges for that for an average 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:06.800 for a player. 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.000 For the people generating the most ball speed. So the 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.240 fact is this is going to be I'm a recreational golfer. 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:14.320 I play a lot of golf. 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:16.400 I think I could tell you how far I hit 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.720 a drive, But if I really had to pick the number, 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.400 I wouldn't really probably be within eight yards of the truth, 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.080 And I probably have never, in the course of fourteen 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.400 holes of driving, hit a drive in the exact same 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:28.800 yards each time. I understand the people that can, I 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.080 watched them all the time, and they playing a lot 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.200 of our events. I'm just not one of them. So 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.600 if you told me my drive went two forty two 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.040 or two thirty nine, I'm not exactly sure I could 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:40.760 tell the difference unless I knew the difference. 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:42.280 Now I'm not trying to bid a little. 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:42.760 It is. 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.960 This is something we're doing to make sure that our 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.440 you know, the next generation and the generation after that 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:50.760 inherit a game that's at least as healthy as the 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.120 one one we did. But in the grand scope of this, 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.960 oh my gosh, you know, rollback. I mean, the rollback 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.160 word itself generates all kinds of reaction. What we've said 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.280 from the very beginning is we will not implement a 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.560 plan that lessens the enjoyment of playing the game. If 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.680 you don't think you know, us, together with thirty thousand 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:12.720 PGA professionals and two thousand LPGA professionals, can manage a 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.880 three yard difference on every golf course. And if for 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.440 that very front tee where there's nowhere to go, if 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:19.760 that person's playing the right ball, as Thomas just said, 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.240 that ball's not changing in twenty twenty eight, so there's 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:23.040 zero difference. 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.840 So I think it's and if the worst thing that 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.520 happens in twenty twenty eight is everybody slides their te. 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.440 Box up four five yards, including the back team, move 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:33.400 the back t up twenty yards. If you want, what 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:35.920 we can't have on that back t is room to 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.640 keep going back over the next twenty thirty and forty years. 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.240 I've said this many times. If if the tours around 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:43.720 the world say, okay, you're going to reduce our yards 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:45.360 by ten yards, we're going to move our teas up 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.360 by twelve, right, we could care less what you do 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:49.960 with your t's, what you do with your scoring. 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:51.200 Feel free. 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:52.960 We just want to make sure there's room for this 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.800 game to grow without asking every venue to grow. Imagine 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.200 if Baseball said to the green Monster, in the next 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.480 ten years, you're going to probably have to move the 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.360 green Monster back, and if you can't, we'll find other venues. 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:04.800 You know. 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:09.159 Just sports don't do that, And so we're not going 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.000 to save every venue that was been built from the 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.440 beginning of time. We get that, But at the same time, 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.040 we should respect the fact that one of the things 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:18.920 this game's going to have to be in the next 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:24.760 thirty to fifty years is sustainable and environmentally conscious. And 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.160 this keeps us from getting into a place thirty forty 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:28.200 years from now where the game. 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.919 Of golf is viewed in a way we certainly wouldn't 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:31.600 accept today. 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:36.000 And I'd like to eventually get into those questions about sustainability, 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.920 both financial and environmental. But first, and this is for 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:44.160 Mike again, there are those who claim to be worried 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.520 that this new rule will dampen the popularity of golf 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.879 at the very moment when the game is experiencing a 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.440 kind of surge it hasn't seen in a while. Are 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:58.600 you worried about that prospect as well? 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.239 We worried about it through this whole process, you know, 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.919 And anytime you're talking about change It's why you know 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.399 our changes are as minimal as they are to make 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:07.800 sure that. 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.840 We didn't have that impact. I'm not concerned. 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:14.120 I wouldn't have launched something today that I thought had 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:18.240 the potential to dampen that interest. Definitely would not have 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.200 Do I think we can swallow this change up pretty quickly, 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.560 at least in terms of impact to the recreational golfer. 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:26.320 I believe that. 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:28.919 I think if anybody takes any bit of time and 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:31.160 thinks that through, they will too. When you get out 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.760 of the emotion of just the first word and you 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.400 get into what specifically are we talking about, I think 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.640 this is something that will certainly be able to address. 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.040 I mean, for everybody who's telling us about how great 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.040 the game is, do you think there's anybody who spends 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.120 more time on the excitement of the game, both today 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:48.960 and in the future than the RNA and the USJ. 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.159 We don't have members otherwise to focus on. 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:54.800 We don't worry about all contracts, we don't worry about 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:56.160 member retirement programs. 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.440 This is our business. 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:03.040 And and you know, nobody invests more in the growth 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:04.639 of our game, in our case in the States and 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.200 the erinace case around the world than we do. This 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.159 is this is as exciting for us as it is 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.040 for everybody else, because you know, our name is United 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.080 States Golf Association, and the United States Golf being healthy 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:17.600 has got to be priority one. 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:22.440 Now, Thomas, getting back to some of the specifics of 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:26.640 the technology and its potential impact. First of all, you've 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:32.440 you've mentioned what the governing bodies expect the various impacts 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.920 of this new ball to be on different swing speeds, 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:40.280 different skill levels. First of all, where did you get 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.800 that data? How did you find all of that out? 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:48.040 So, our engineers and our scientists have tested balls with 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:52.600 with aerodynamic changes that are consistent with how we believe 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:56.960 manufacturers would approach this, and we've touched them under simulations 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.360 to meet these new conditions, and we do find that 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.320 the higher swing speeds excuse me, have a greater impact 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.080