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Speaker 1: Ninety percent of people are waiting for that feeling of

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Speaker 1: confidence before they take that step. That feeling of confidence

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Speaker 1: it does not come before we take the action. It

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Speaker 1: comes after we take the action.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose Sam your host

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Speaker 2: Jay Shetty, and today I'm joined by Shade Zarai, Award

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Speaker 2: winning leadership expert and author of her first book, Big Trust.

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Speaker 2: If you haven't got your copy yet, make sure you

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Speaker 2: go and grab it. We're going to put the link

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Speaker 2: in the caption. If you've ever felt held back by

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Speaker 2: self doubt or fear of failure, this conversation will show

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Speaker 2: you how to trust yourself again and start moving forward

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Speaker 2: with real confidence. I've followed Shade on Instagram and TikTok

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Speaker 2: for years now. I'm a huge fan, and today I

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Speaker 2: finally have her on the seat on On Purpose. Please

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Speaker 2: welcome to the show, Shadai Shaday. It's so great to

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Speaker 2: have you here.

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Speaker 1: It's so wonderful to be here.

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Speaker 2: Jays, congratulations on that. Thank you. I love the topic.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you zeroed in on it. I

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Speaker 2: actually believe that that self doubt is, without a doubt,

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest issues in the world today. At

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Speaker 2: an individual personal level. And the reason why so many

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Speaker 2: people don't go after their dreams, don't go after the

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Speaker 2: career they want, don't go after the person they want

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Speaker 2: to be with, don't go after a promotion, don't go

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Speaker 2: after a connection a friendship, because we are scared of

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Speaker 2: how we'll be perceived. And the reason why I'm so

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Speaker 2: happy we're talking about this subject and that you've dedicated

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Speaker 2: your book to it is because I often think about

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Speaker 2: what my life would look like if I had listened

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Speaker 2: to myself doubt. And I think people think that people

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Speaker 2: who've had some success in their career don't feel self doubt.

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Speaker 2: And I would say I felt self doubt before I started,

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Speaker 2: I felt selfed out during it, and because I still

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Speaker 2: think about the beginning, I still feel self out today,

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Speaker 2: but I know what to do with it, and your

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Speaker 2: book gives us a brilliant method. So I want to

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Speaker 2: start off by asking you, if someone was to listen

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Speaker 2: to our podcast today, what would they overcome and what

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Speaker 2: skills would they build?

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Speaker 1: So this is essentially going to be a master class

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Speaker 1: on self doubt, but not only what it is actually

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Speaker 1: determining for yourself. What are the drivers of your self

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Speaker 1: doubt because we think self doubt is just one big

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Speaker 1: blob of worry and anxiety and insecurity. But when we

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Speaker 1: look at decades worth of literature my own research over

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Speaker 1: the past five years, we've distilled it down to four

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Speaker 1: main drivers. And so if you're able to determine, okay,

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Speaker 1: where am I on these drivers, which one is really

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Speaker 1: propelling myself doubt, that allows you to then determine what

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Speaker 1: you need to do to move through it. As you said,

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Speaker 1: self doubt doesn't necessarily disappear with achievement. It doesn't disappear

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Speaker 1: as you advanced in your career. It just scales with responsibility.

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Speaker 1: But the real measure of someone's success and happiness is

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Speaker 1: if they can hear the voice of self doubt and

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Speaker 1: still move forward anyway. And so what I want to

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Speaker 1: help everyone listening with today is to determine which of

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Speaker 1: the drivers of their self doubt is taking the driver's seat,

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Speaker 1: and then exactly what they need to do to move

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Speaker 1: through it so they can get the connection they want,

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Speaker 1: the success they want, the performance that they want, and

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Speaker 1: create the life that they want.

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Speaker 2: I love it. Let's talk about the four drivers, because

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Speaker 2: I'm fascinated now as well too. Let's do it to

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Speaker 2: discover I've been dealing with it.

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Speaker 1: We can actually diagnose your doubt profile it. So the

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Speaker 1: first thing we need to do is rewind a little bit.

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Speaker 1: How did we come across these four drivers. So we've

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Speaker 1: been working with leaders and teams across organizations for the

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Speaker 1: last five to ten years, that's tens of thousands of people,

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Speaker 1: and we found that again, no matter where someone was

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Speaker 1: at on their journey, they were hearing this voice of

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Speaker 1: doubt and it would sound different and it would look different.

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Speaker 1: But then we wanted to know, okay, specifically what is

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Speaker 1: driving this and we need to bring it back to

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Speaker 1: something called yourself image. Let me tell you about a

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Speaker 1: study that was conducted in the seventies and it opens

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Speaker 1: your mind as to the power of the self image

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Speaker 1: that we have about ourselves and how that keeps repeating

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Speaker 1: throughout our lives. So in the nineteen seventies, a psychology

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Speaker 1: professor by the name of Robert Kleck from Dartmouth can

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Speaker 1: Hedu did this fascinating experiment where he brought people together,

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Speaker 1: he split them into groups, and with one group he

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Speaker 1: drew a scar on their face from their right ear

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Speaker 1: to the side of their mouth. Big, ugly scar, and

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Speaker 1: he let them see themselves in a hand mirror. Then

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Speaker 1: he sends the groups out to have conversation with strangers. Right,

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Speaker 1: so you have one group that has this scar, another

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Speaker 1: group has no scar. After the conversations, they come back

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Speaker 1: and they report on how they felt the conversation went.

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Speaker 1: The group with the scar overwhelmingly reported that they felt judged,

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Speaker 1: it was tense. The other person was distant because of

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Speaker 1: the scar. But here is where it gets really interesting.

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Speaker 1: If we rewind just a little bit, Right before the

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Speaker 1: researchers sent them out into these conversations, he applied moisturizing

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Speaker 1: cream to the scar, so they just see themselves in

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Speaker 1: the mirror. He then applies his cream, but he doesn't

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Speaker 1: tell them that he's removing the scar.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: So now they have no scar on their face, but

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Speaker 1: they believe that they do. They go into these conversations

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Speaker 1: believing expecting they will be treated badly, poorly judged, and

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Speaker 1: that's what they experience.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: It's wild when you think about the implications for us

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Speaker 1: in our lives. Okay, it may not be a physical scar,

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Speaker 1: but we all have beliefs or expectations about ourselves based

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Speaker 1: on how we see ourselves our self image, and then

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Speaker 1: we're going to notice things that reinforce it. Because of

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Speaker 1: how the brain is wired confirmation bias, selective attention. Your

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Speaker 1: brain is wired to magnify what you focus on. So

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Speaker 1: if you're going into your life, into your conversations, into

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Speaker 1: your meetings, into your work, believing that you're not worthy,

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Speaker 1: that you're not capable, that you don't deserve it, you're

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Speaker 1: going to notice things that reinforce that, and it's only

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Speaker 1: going to make you feel worse. So we know that

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Speaker 1: about self image. So the first question to ask ourselves

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Speaker 1: is what are these invisible scars that we are carrying

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Speaker 1: throughout our lives? How can we become more aware of them?

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Speaker 1: So then my next question is great, So that's the

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Speaker 1: power of self image, and self image drives our self doubt.

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Speaker 1: But how do you measure self image? If I were

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Speaker 1: to ask you, Jay, what do you think your self images?

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Speaker 1: You might share something and then I'd ask someone else

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Speaker 1: what do you think your self images? And they might

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Speaker 1: share something else. We need to determine if something is measurable,

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Speaker 1: so we can determine what it is. And when we

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Speaker 1: look at over fifty years worth of research, this is

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Speaker 1: when we find that, yes, there's a lot of information

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Speaker 1: out there, but it really comes down to just four

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Speaker 1: dimensions of how we see ourselves. And when these four

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Speaker 1: things come together, that shapes our self image, it shapes

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Speaker 1: how we interact with the world. Not only that these

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Speaker 1: four things that actually have their base in our personality,

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Speaker 1: they have been shown through meta analyses of over one

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Speaker 1: hundred studies to predict our success, our job performance, our

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Speaker 1: career satisfaction, how happy we are in our life, and

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Speaker 1: our relationships. And it all comes down to these four things.

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Speaker 1: And I could not believe it when I came across it.

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Speaker 1: So let me tell you what these four things are.

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Speaker 1: Because essentially these four things drive our self image, which

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Speaker 1: then drives our self doubt when they're weak. So the

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Speaker 1: very very first one, the first driver of your self doubt,

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Speaker 1: which shapes your self image, is what we call acceptance

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Speaker 1: self acceptance. It relates to this personality trait of self esteem.

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Speaker 1: So how you see yourself in terms of your value

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Speaker 1: and your worth. Now, if you don't accept yourself it

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Speaker 1: shows up in four painfully familiar habits. The first one

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Speaker 1: is what we call the pressure to prove you feel

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Speaker 1: like you constantly have to prove yourself through your work,

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Speaker 1: through your performance. You have to prove that you are

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Speaker 1: of value to other people, so you seek their validation

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Speaker 1: and their praise, and when you don't get it, it

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Speaker 1: becomes this automatic switch and you need to win it back.

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Speaker 1: That's the first The second one is what we call

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Speaker 1: the shrinking syndrome. So this is where someone might be

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Speaker 1: afraid of success because they don't accept who they are,

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Speaker 1: and therefore they're afraid of what will happen if something

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Speaker 1: amazing happens to them, because deep down they don't feel

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Speaker 1: like they deserve it, so then they try and sabotage

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Speaker 1: before they get there. The third is what we call

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Speaker 1: the Schaudenfreuder cycle and the shaden Freuda cycle. You may

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Speaker 1: have heard of it. It's a German term. It's that

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Speaker 1: moment when you see someone else fail and you suddenly

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Speaker 1: feel really good about yourself. You feel a little bit

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Speaker 1: better about yourself, you enjoy other people's failures. This is

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Speaker 1: a sign that you do not accept yourself. Wow, your

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Speaker 1: self seem is suffering. And then the fourth pattern that

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Speaker 1: we see here is of course that endless need for approval.

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Speaker 1: We need other people to like us to validate us,

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Speaker 1: we might become codependent in our relationships. We say yes

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Speaker 1: when we really want to say no. We wear masks

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Speaker 1: and contort ourselves to better suit the people around us,

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Speaker 1: but in doing so, we lose ourselves. So that is

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Speaker 1: the first and in my view, the most foundational acceptance.

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Speaker 2: And as I'm learning about it from you, it feels

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Speaker 2: like that starts so early and you're just carrying it

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Speaker 2: for all these years, and then you become aware of

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Speaker 2: it when you're starting to apply for a job, or

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Speaker 2: you're wanting to put yourself forward for a promotion, or

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Speaker 2: you're trying to find the relationship with your dreams, and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, now you're like, well, why do

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Speaker 2: I feel this way? And I can imagine a lot

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Speaker 2: of our listeners right now are sitting here going, shauday,

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Speaker 2: I do all of those four things. That's me. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's me. And so if someone's listening right now and

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Speaker 2: just saying shadah jay, that's me. I do all four

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Speaker 2: of those things. I have no idea do I have

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Speaker 2: to stop doing those things? Do I have to? So

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Speaker 2: I self acceptance, That is the issue that I'm having.

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Speaker 2: I don't accept myself according to your four measures, where

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Speaker 2: do I even begin to go? What questions should I

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Speaker 2: be asking? From that point?

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Speaker 1: So I love how you mentioned that we developed this

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Speaker 1: early in life. Let's start there and then we'll go

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Speaker 1: to how we can start to break the attachment that

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Speaker 1: we have to this. So generally, this sense of acceptance

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Speaker 1: that we have develops in the first three to four years.

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Speaker 1: Initially it's based on the response we get from our

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Speaker 1: parents a primary caregivers, and then it also develops based

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Speaker 1: on whether we feel that we get the emotional support

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Speaker 1: and the nurturing that we need. If you feel like

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Speaker 1: you constantly have to earn your parents' attention or do

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Speaker 1: something exciting to get them to pay attention to you,

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Speaker 1: then we develop this belief that I must perform to

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Speaker 1: be worthy. It can also happen later in life when

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Speaker 1: a parent says to you or compares your report card

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Speaker 1: your grades to a sibling, or makes you feel like

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Speaker 1: you're only of value when you're winning an award or

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Speaker 1: coming first in the swimming competition that you're in the race.

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Speaker 1: So we develop these really early on, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we do need to acknowledge so much of who we

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Speaker 1: are as a result of those early experiences. That doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean we are a prisoner to that, and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that we should be blaming that environment and our

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Speaker 1: parents and our you know, the caregivers that we had.

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Speaker 1: We need to acknowledge that they were doing the best

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Speaker 1: that they could with what they knew at the time.

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Speaker 1: We have this beautiful ability of taking ownership of our lives,

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Speaker 1: which actually comes down to the third pillar, which we'll

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Speaker 1: get to, which allows us to, as you said, become

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Speaker 1: aware of these patterns so often, Jay, and if you're listening,

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Speaker 1: you may find that you have not been aware of

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Speaker 1: these things. And it's only when you listen to sessions

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Speaker 1: like this, conversations like this, when you read a book

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Speaker 1: where you suddenly start to almost self diagnose and realize, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is me. See that as a really positive thing,

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Speaker 1: because you're identifying that you are part of this experience

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Speaker 1: as opposed to just this is who I am. So

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Speaker 1: that's a really positive thing. So what do we do

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Speaker 1: if we identify Okay, I'm really struggling with acceptance. The

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Speaker 1: very first thing is to acknowledge that you are not

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Speaker 1: your thoughts and you are not your beliefs. Beliefs are

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Speaker 1: simply just a repeated pattern of thought that has happened

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Speaker 1: so many times in our brain that it becomes a default.

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Speaker 1: It's just a really really fast process neural pathway. And

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Speaker 1: in the same way that a belief is formed early

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Speaker 1: in our lives, we can overwrite that belief. Yes it

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Speaker 1: takes time, Yes it takes a repetition, Yes it takes practice,

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Speaker 1: but we have the ability to do that through conscious choice.

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Speaker 1: And so the moment you start noticing that you're feeling insecure,

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Speaker 1: those thoughts come into your mind. I can't do this,

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Speaker 1: I don't deserve this. I'm not enough. That's the key

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Speaker 1: phrase for someone who lacks acceptance. I'm not enough. So

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Speaker 1: I must prove that I'm enough. I must earn that

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Speaker 1: feeling from other people. I must chase it through achievement.

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Speaker 1: The moment you notice that, consciously re engage the prefrontal

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Speaker 1: part of your brain. This is how you re engage

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Speaker 1: attention and say to yourself, hold on, I don't need

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Speaker 1: to believe that thought. I don't need to believe that belief.

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Speaker 1: Remind yourself that I have value, I am of value.

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Speaker 1: And one of the simplest hacks that you can use

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Speaker 1: in those moments is to stop thinking about yourself. I

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Speaker 1: know that sounds really odd to say, but when we

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Speaker 1: are suffering with a lack of self acceptance, it's always

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Speaker 1: I me, my, How do they see me? How am

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Speaker 1: I coming across? What am I doing right now? If

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Speaker 1: you can to go, okay, how can I be here

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Speaker 1: for them? How can I be of value? How can

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Speaker 1: I be of service? How can I make this person

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Speaker 1: feel seen? That's called self forgetting, And research shows that

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Speaker 1: this process of self forgetting by becoming more service oriented,

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Speaker 1: helps to quiet in that incessant voice of the ego.

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Speaker 1: And it's remarkable how when you tap into that suddenly

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Speaker 1: you realize, Okay, I don't have to be so in

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Speaker 1: my head. I want to share just a couple of

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Speaker 1: really simple techniques for anyone who really does struggle with acceptance.

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Speaker 1: The first one is, if you struggle with acceptance, you

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Speaker 1: are going to attach your sense of identity to your

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Speaker 1: job and to your achievements and to your performance. So

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Speaker 1: if things are going well professionally, if you're achieving things,

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Speaker 1: if you're doing amazing things, you feel fantastic. And then

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Speaker 1: something happens and it all crumbles and you fail. You

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Speaker 1: take it personally, you internalize that failure. So the first

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Speaker 1: and foremost thing you need to do is acknowledge you

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Speaker 1: are not your job. There is so much to you

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Speaker 1: that exists outside of that in environment, which I know

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Speaker 1: is really hard to do if you work, especially in

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Speaker 1: a corporate organization where your entire status is determined by

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Speaker 1: your job title and how well you're delivering and your

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Speaker 1: promotion track record. Right, So we tend to internalize these things,

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Speaker 1: but you need to consciously remind yourself through that prefrontal activation,

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Speaker 1: I am not my job. I am so much more

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Speaker 1: than this. And there's a really interesting little technique we

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Speaker 1: like to share. Not even a technique, it's actually a suggestion. So, Jay,

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Speaker 1: there was a study that was conducted with Nobel Prize

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Speaker 1: winning scientists and they looked at five hundred of them,

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Speaker 1: and they found that they were three times more likely

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Speaker 1: than regular scientists to have a creative hobby. Not only that,

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Speaker 1: they were twenty two times more likely than regular scientists

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Speaker 1: to have a hobby in the performing arts, singing, music, drama.

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Speaker 1: They many of them attribute that hobby to helping them

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Speaker 1: bounce back whens didn't go to plan, and also to

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Speaker 1: allowing them to make connections that other people would have

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Speaker 1: been able to. And so what can we take from that?

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Speaker 1: It's great, right, cool study. What can we take from that? Well,

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Speaker 1: having something outside of work that we can pour ourselves into,

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Speaker 1: especially something creative, because we know about the impact that

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Speaker 1: has in the brain that allows us to remind ourselves. Hey,

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Speaker 1: even if I didn't do well today at work, even

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Speaker 1: if I didn't achieve this thing that I wanted to,

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Speaker 1: I get to go and take on that character in

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Speaker 1: that play. I get to go and pick up my guitar.

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Speaker 1: I get to go and paint that beautiful painting. And fascinatingly, hobbies,

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Speaker 1: especially creative hobbies, have been found to increase your self esteem,

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Speaker 1: which increases your sense of self acceptance. So it's a

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Speaker 1: very odd one, but I would encourage you if you

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Speaker 1: struggle here, go and pick up a hobby and embrace

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Speaker 1: the messiness of being a beginner.

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Speaker 2: I love how practical, tactical and simple this is. And

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Speaker 2: simple in a good way in that I think anyone

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Speaker 2: who's listening right now, they've got their plan of action

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Speaker 2: for acceptance. You've got the questions to ask yourself or

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Speaker 2: to make sure you know. I don't need to believe

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Speaker 2: that I don't need to agree with those beliefs. I

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Speaker 2: don't need to agree with those thoughts. You've got the

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Speaker 2: idea of what's your hobby, and so I love that

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Speaker 2: you said that. I started thinking about my own and

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Speaker 2: I've got a vefew. I've got pickleball, a play it

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Speaker 2: on a football or soccer when I'm back in London,

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Speaker 2: I enjoy. I mean, they're not creative in artistic sense,

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Speaker 2: but they're they're physical because my work's so creative. So

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Speaker 2: in one sense, just these physical competitive things that allow

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Speaker 2: me to be with friends connection. I love game nights, brilliant,

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Speaker 2: A big fan of game nights, and so it seems

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Speaker 2: like anything that's collaborative and competitive makes me feel good

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Speaker 2: because my work's so creative already. So I think I

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Speaker 2: don't crave creativity, but I do crave that desire to

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Speaker 2: play and be free. Something you said that resonated with

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Speaker 2: me was this idea of if you performed for your parents,

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Speaker 2: if you had to perform to get your parents' attention,

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Speaker 2: you ended up thinking that performance equals success equals winning

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Speaker 2: equals love equals worth. A lot of people are really

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Speaker 2: successful today have just lived that pattern now. So in

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Speaker 2: one sense. It's also a pattern that makes people quite

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Speaker 2: successful in the public eye. So the biggest performers in

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Speaker 2: the world, some of them would say themselves that they

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Speaker 2: were the performer in their home or their family, and

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Speaker 2: they didn't realize it until they became the number one

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Speaker 2: person in the world at something that that wasn't who

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Speaker 2: they wanted to be. It's who they became because of it.

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Speaker 2: So it can make you successful, but maybe not happy.

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Speaker 2: What do you think about that?

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Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I love that you've mentioned this. So there's

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Speaker 1: two elements we need to touch on here. So this

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Speaker 1: lack of acceptance that develops early on, where we feel

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Speaker 1: like we must perform to be of value or to

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Speaker 1: earn the attention of others. That leads us to perfectionistic

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Speaker 1: tendencies as adults, where we set these very very very

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Speaker 1: high standards for ourselves, beat ourselves up when we inevitably

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Speaker 1: don't reach them, and then just set the next high standard.

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Speaker 1: And so for a lot of people, well, this does

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Speaker 1: propel them forward, this does propel them to amazing heights.

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Speaker 1: But as you said, they might reach that number one

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Speaker 1: pinnacle and then they stop and think, this is not

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Speaker 1: what I wanted. This is not the life that I

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Speaker 1: wanted to lead. And so what we need to think

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Speaker 1: about with success is two elements. Okay, there is the

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Speaker 1: material success, the status, the external success, but then there

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Speaker 1: is that internal feeling that really should be coming with it,

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Speaker 1: the sense of satisfaction, the sense of fulfillment. And so

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Speaker 1: anyone who is driven by a lack of acceptance, what

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Speaker 1: we see in a lot of really high performers is

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Speaker 1: that if they're driven by this, yes they have amazing

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Speaker 1: work ethic, Yes they're incredibly diligent, but they never feel satisfied.

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Speaker 1: And that level of emptiness that they feel also drives

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Speaker 1: them to try and seek that satisfaction from the next hit,

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Speaker 1: the next achievements called the arrival fallacy. When I get there,

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Speaker 1: I will feel like I've made it. And then they

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Speaker 1: get there and they think, why doesn't this feel any different?

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Speaker 1: And then they set the next goal and they're perpetually

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Speaker 1: seeking this state of enoughness, and then they sacrifice things

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Speaker 1: on the way to get there because they're so fixated

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Speaker 1: on believing when I get there everything will fall into place.

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Speaker 1: That they've sacrificed relationships, they've sacrificed time with their children,

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Speaker 1: they've sacrificed family, they've sacrificed well being generally, and so yes,

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Speaker 1: it may be a driver the fundamental question that we

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Speaker 1: get asked about perfectionism because we have a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who say, well, I set high standards and I

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Speaker 1: think it's a good thing. Isn't that a good thing?

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Speaker 1: The fundamental difference is what happens when you don't achieve

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Speaker 1: the standards. That determines whether it's perfectionism or it's just

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Speaker 1: striving for excellence. If you beat yourself up and tell yourself,

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Speaker 1: I'm a failure, I'm not enough, I'm terrible. You judge yourself.

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Speaker 1: That is a sign of perfectionism. That is called maladaptive.

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Speaker 1: That is a reflection of you not feeling like you're enough,

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Speaker 1: so you punish yourself. Whereas if you fall short, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can feel disappointed for a while. That's fine, that's natural,

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Speaker 1: that's human. But then if you ask yourself, Okay, how

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Speaker 1: do I get better? How do I learn and how

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Speaker 1: do I apply what I've learned to implement it the

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Speaker 1: next time I do it to get further ahead. That's

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Speaker 1: called striving for excellence, And it all comes down to

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Speaker 1: your approach. I also spoke to someone very recently, a

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Speaker 1: highly highly successful business woman, very prolific on social media

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Speaker 1: as well, and she said to me, she's driven by

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Speaker 1: that sense of She described it as it's a sense

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Speaker 1: of not enoughness, but not to do with me. It's

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Speaker 1: that I have so much impact I want to create

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Speaker 1: that I don't feel like what I'm doing is enough.

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Speaker 1: And so for her, she's driven by purpose and service.

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Speaker 1: And so I said, okay, so what happens if you

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Speaker 1: get to the end of the day and you don't

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Speaker 1: feel like it was enough? From that perspective, and she said,

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Speaker 1: I just get more fired up for the next day.

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Speaker 1: And I said, does it make you reflect on you?

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Speaker 1: Do you become judgmental on you? And she said no.

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Speaker 1: I said, there you go. So you can be driven

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Speaker 1: by this incredible desire to serve others and to be

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Speaker 1: of value. And that's a fantastic way to still get

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Speaker 1: that desire to perform and to succeed. But for the

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Speaker 1: right reasons.

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Speaker 2: I love that nuance because I think for so many

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Speaker 2: people it's very much like ambition bad, satisfaction good. And

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Speaker 2: that's such a simplistic way of looking at it. Because

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Speaker 2: you're so right, and I love that question of how

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Speaker 2: does it feel when you don't hit that goal. Do

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Speaker 2: you actually get more energy and more excited and more

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Speaker 2: focused and more diligent, or do you become more harsh

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Speaker 2: and more critical and more comparative. And as you were

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Speaker 2: saying that, you repeated this sentence a couple of times

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Speaker 2: when you were talking, you said, you are not your job.

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Speaker 2: And I was thinking, your work is not your worth,

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Speaker 2: and then I was thinking about just how hard wired

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Speaker 2: it is. So I was looking into this, and it

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Speaker 2: was about the time of the Industrial Revolution that work

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Speaker 2: became so much more attached to worth. Everyone knew what

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Speaker 2: role they played on the conveyor belt, there was the

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Speaker 2: division of labor. You now had everyone having titles and roles,

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Speaker 2: and the question became what do you do? And everything

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Speaker 2: became about title. Now, if you take it back a

433
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 2: bit further, you've actually got everyone's last names being represented

434
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 2: of their job. So you have Baker, Blacksmith, whatever else

435
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 2: it may be, and that became your name, and that

436
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 2: was just your shop front. And so this hard wiring

437
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,479
Speaker 2: that we all have of our work being our worth

438
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 2: has been hardwired for a few decades now and probably longer,

439
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 2: but it's so hard to lose it because that's what

440
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 2: you're measured on since you were a kid, the grades

441
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 2: against your friends, then the college you went to and

442
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 2: its reputation, the degree you received, and then the first

443
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 2: job you got. And it's almost like, as you get

444
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,360
Speaker 2: out of school, your job becomes the only measurable thing,

445
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,479
Speaker 2: like the amount you earn in your job title, because

446
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 2: people aren't comparing like, oh, I've got seven kids, you've

447
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 2: got three, Like that isn't really a point of contention,

448
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 2: thank goodness, Yeah, yeah, thank goodness for sure, but that

449
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 2: isn't really the metric, or you're not like, oh I've

450
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: got you might compare like, oh I've been in religion

451
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 2: for ten years, You've only been in one for two,

452
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: But the job feels like oh this so much money

453
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 2: I make in this in my status. How do you

454
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 2: operate in a world which is created for that competition

455
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 2: and that comparison and not feel that short and for

456
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 2: it of like, oh I feel happy when someone else

457
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 2: is not making How do you manage both of those emotions?

458
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: So we do live in a world that is absolutely

459
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: amplifying our self doubts and is almost designed to get

460
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: us to compare ourselves to others. As you said, in university,

461
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 1: you're often ranked against your classmates, and we don't really

462
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: have objective markers other than salary and how many cars

463
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: you have, and where you live and job title. And

464
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: the fact is, in the world that we live in

465
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: as well, your job does attract a certain perceived status,

466
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, lawyers, doctors. Suddenly people go, oh, they pay attention.

467
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: But this is just fueling this comparison that we have

468
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: and this sense of not enoughness. So how do we

469
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: prevent ourselves. We need to knowledge we live in this world.

470
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 1: We're consumed by this world. It's very easy to internalize

471
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 1: these things. And that is why these four pillars are

472
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: so fundamentally important. Because we're just talking about the first one,

473
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: but as I go through the rest, you'll see how

474
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: you can also use the other three to counterbalance. So

475
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: a lot of people struggle with acceptance and they think, Okay,

476
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: I need to get my acceptance really strong before I'll

477
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: be able to move forward and succeed and be happy.

478
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 1: Not necessarily it's a lifelong journey. You can actually lean

479
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 1: on other attributes, so we call them the four a's,

480
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: the four attributes of self trust, which reflect our self image.

481
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: You can lean on your other attributes to help you

482
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: take action anyway, focus on what you need to focus

483
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: on and prevent yourself getting stuck in that comparison cycle.

484
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 1: Something that we do share though with people is if

485
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: you feel like you're constantly comparing to other people and

486
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: you're feeling like you're worse off, You're feeling like you're

487
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 1: not as good as they are. Something that's really valuable

488
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: is to move from comparison to what we call emulation.

489
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: Comparison is pitting two things against each other and looking

490
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: for differences. Emulation is cool. Look at what that person

491
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: is doing, how did they do it? And how can

492
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 1: I emulate that? So I can do it too. So

493
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: you take learnings from their journey, apply it to your own,

494
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: and suddenly, rather than feeling, oh gosh, I'm so far behind,

495
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: you suddenly realize, hey, if they can do it, I

496
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: can do it. What's that first step I'm going to take? Yes,

497
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: So that's one step you can take. It's to really

498
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: focus on, Okay, how do I stay in my lane?

499
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, I love that.

500
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

501
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 2: I've often said you can turn your envy into study

502
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: and it's beautiful.

503
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: That beautiful like.

504
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 2: How can you take this feeling of like, oh, why

505
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: did they have it? And why am I so behind?

506
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: And they're show ahead and go okay, well what did

507
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: they get right? And I think often when you start

508
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 2: doing that, you realize, oh, wait a minute, they actually

509
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 2: got a lot wrong too, And when you actually start

510
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: looking and paying attention to someone, you go, oh, they

511
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 2: actually had three businesses that failed before that. Oh, I

512
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 2: just know about the one that took off. Oh, they

513
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: went through a divorce through that. They haven't had a

514
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: perfect life. They've had a lot of difficulty. Oh I

515
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 2: didn't realize that. You know, they lost a child. Like

516
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 2: when you actually study someone, you actually get this textured, colored,

517
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: multifaceted view of someone versus the oh they're on the

518
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 2: front cover of Forbes, or they're on the front cover

519
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 2: of Time magazine or whatever else it may be, and

520
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: then you don't get that texture. So I love that

521
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 2: idea of turning it into emulation. And I assume with

522
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: what you're saying, that's also just a habit that every

523
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: time you see something and you feel envious and you

524
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: feel that feeling of being left behind, you just go okay, well, no,

525
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 2: let me learn from it. Let me study that right.

526
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: Absolutely, all of these things that we're talking about are

527
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: actually just habits. And in fact, I would argue that

528
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: a belief is simply an habitual way of thinking. Yes,

529
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: so when we understand that their habits, it also empowers

530
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: us to realize, hey, we can create better habits over

531
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 1: the old ones. And what happens in those moments when

532
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: you start to notice that self doubt, that inner criticism

533
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: that I don't feel good enough to happening, is you're

534
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 1: often tending to and this links to the third pillar,

535
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: which we'll get to, you tend to start focusing on

536
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: things outside of your control. This is why all of

537
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 1: these four they really do. They rise and fall with

538
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: each other. You start focusing on things outside of your control.

539
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: When you do that, what we notice when we look

540
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: at brain scans is that there's less activity in your

541
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,719
Speaker 1: ventromedial prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for rationality and solution

542
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: finding and logical thinking, which means that your thinking is

543
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: largely driven by the emotion centers, which is why it

544
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: feels so self consuming. When we're in that state, all

545
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: the emotions come with it and all the negative thoughts

546
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 1: come with it. I'm so far behind. I'm never going

547
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: to be as good as them. I'm a screw up.

548
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: Whatever it is. So consciously catching yourself out is an

549
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: incredibly powerful first step. And then the next step is

550
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: to direct your attention. Direct your attention to what you

551
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: can focus on, moving to that idea of study or

552
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 1: emulation that in itself is re engaging those frontal regions

553
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: of the brain, which is going to help quiet in

554
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: the emotion centers and allow you to take the best

555
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: next step for you.

556
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 2: What's that? I love it. Before we go into the

557
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 2: other three, which I really want to do, I want

558
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 2: to ask you. I'm taking this tangent because i can

559
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 2: feel people thinking about it, and I'm like, okay, I

560
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: want to ask it, like, fake it till you make it?

561
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: Is it actually good advice?

562
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: Fake it till you make it is something that we

563
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 1: hear constantly. I don't necessarily like the idea of faking

564
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: anything because I think that links to in authenticity and

565
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: it might give people permission to do things that are

566
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: completely insincere. I like to use what Amy Cuddy describes

567
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: as be it until you become it, which is, you know,

568
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: it's a matter of semantics, but I think it resonates

569
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: so much more with people who are all about sincerity

570
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: and authenticity and integrity. You do not have to fake

571
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: being someone else. You need to be that person, have

572
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: the energy that you want to be exuding, see yourself

573
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: achieving what you want to see, who you want to

574
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,479
Speaker 1: be right, and then show up every day as if

575
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 1: you've already achieved. It is this remarkable thing that happens

576
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: which has not been able to be measured just yet.

577
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: When someone puts out to the universe, I want to

578
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: achieve this, I believe I'm this, and then they start

579
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: acting in a way that is aligned with that. Things

580
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: are attracted to them, opportunities come their way importantly too,

581
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: though they also take the steps to put them on

582
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: that path. Just on this point, I want to mention

583
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: something really fascinating that comes out of the research, Something

584
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: that we see a lot of people talk about online especially,

585
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: is manifestation. Manifest who you want to be, be it

586
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: till you become it, have the vision bought on your wall,

587
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: and I definitely think there is some power in that. Again,

588
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: it has not been able to be measured as far

589
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: as I'm aware, but there is another element where if

590
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: you're visualizing yourself becoming something and believing you can achieve

591
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: that what you're doing is changing yourself image. You're updating

592
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: that blueprint. You know, we spoke about it earlier. The

593
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: idea of these scars. You're allowing yourself in your mind

594
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: to create this new concept of who you are. Because

595
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: if you cannot see yourself as being there, as deserving that,

596
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: you will inevitably sabotage yourself as you get there. Yes,

597
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: you will notice everything getting in your way, and that'll

598
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: be proof that, see, I can't do this. So that's

599
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: the idea of upgrading yourself image. So that's really really powerful.

600
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: But then a lot of people get stuck where they

601
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: just have this view of where they want to go,

602
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: they're so clear on it, they're excited about it, and

603
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: then suddenly they just they flounder. And it's because of

604
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: two things happening. There was a study that was published

605
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: that found that when we have these beautiful positive they

606
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: call them positive fantasies, these visualizations where we want to

607
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: be and we feel them and we embody them, it

608
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: can actually sap your energy. Why because when we then

609
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: face a roadblock or a setback, that we are completely

610
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: unprepared for it, challenges that view that hey, I can

611
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: get there, and suddenly we start to think, oh no,

612
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 1: we start to anchor back on our current self image

613
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: and think too hard, I'm never going to get there,

614
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: I don't deserve it, I'm not capable enough, and then

615
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: we retreat. So there's an important step and second step. Right,

616
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: So you need to visualize yourself getting there. But then

617
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: you also and this is contrary to what a lot

618
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: of people suggest, what the research suggests, what we encourage

619
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: all of our students to do is be very clear

620
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: on what are all the things that are going to

621
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: get in the way of you getting there? Be really

622
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: clear on that. A lot of people say, no, don't

623
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: anticipate that, because you'll will it into existence. No, we say,

624
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: be very pragmatic. What are the things that could get

625
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: in the way. One of them is, well, my own

626
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: belief about myself. The other one is the people I'm around.

627
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: Maybe they will prevent me from getting there. It could

628
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: be boredom, it could be this obstacle, that obstacle, that

629
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: set back, that failure. Write them down. But then there

630
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: is an important second step. If you only write them down,

631
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: you're going to enter an entire world of catastrophizing and worrying.

632
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: So the next step then is to ask yourself, what

633
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: will I do if and when this happens. You create

634
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: your contingency plan, your recovery plan, so that if it happens,

635
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: you have your steps, You've prepared, You've essentially been there before,

636
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: so you don't need to worry about spiraling into overthinking

637
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: and worry and catastrophizing. You say, nope, I've been here,

638
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: I've got my plan. It's called an implementation intension. And

639
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,959
Speaker 1: if you come up with these if then you are

640
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: going to be more likely to achieve that goal, more

641
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 1: likely to persist when the roadblock, when the failure comes,

642
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: and more likely to move towards where you want to go.

643
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 2: Want to make a real difference this giving season this

644
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: December on Purpose is part of Pods Fight Poverty podcast,

645
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: teaming up to lift three villages in Rwanda out of

646
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,959
Speaker 2: extreme poverty. We're doing it through give Directly, which sends

647
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 2: cash straight to families so they can choose what they

648
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 2: need most. Donate at GiveDirectly dot org, forward slash on Purpose.

649
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: First time gifts are matched your impact. Our goal is

650
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: one million dollars by year's end, enough to lift seven

651
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,959
Speaker 2: hundred families out of poverty. Join us at GiveDirectly dot

652
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 2: org forward slash on purpose. It's so fascinating, isn't it

653
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 2: that the human mind either imagines everything going wrong, yeah,

654
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 2: or imagines everything going right. But then you're presenting this

655
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 2: like medical ground of be pragmatic, be aware. If this,

656
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: then that and that's the reality of life, Like that's

657
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: where you're going to live. Like if you just sit

658
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: there in dreamland and think of everything being perfect, we

659
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: know that's never going to happen. And also we have

660
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: this tendency to just think in nightmares where well, everything's

661
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: going wrong, nothing's ever going to work out, I'm not

662
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 2: worth anything. And these we almost gravitate to these extremes

663
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: because they feel safer in a way weird way. Why

664
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: do we do that? Why do we gravitate to these extremes.

665
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: The brain craves certainty. The brain fundamentally crave certainty. And

666
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: the reason why when we look at fundamentally why the

667
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: brain does what it does, it's primary function. A lot

668
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: of people say its primary function is to protect us.

669
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: There's a little bit more to it. The primary function

670
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: of the brain really is to make sure that the

671
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: rest of the body is doing what it needs to

672
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: do while using the least amount of metabolic energy. Right,

673
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: so it needs us to function while using as little

674
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: energy as possible. And so part of that is obviously

675
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: protecting you because then if you're in a situation where

676
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: you're having to deal with something terrible happening, the brain

677
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: has to put in a lot more effort. So it

678
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 1: will often magnify everything that could go wrong, because if

679
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: it does that, it gives you a sense of certainty, no,

680
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: this is going to happen. You're going to fail, you're

681
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: going to fall short, they're going to laugh at you,

682
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: they're going to reject you, and at least you know.

683
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: At least you know so that you don't do the thing,

684
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: because if you do the thing and that happens, your

685
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: brain's going to have to put in a lot more

686
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: work to get through that. So if it can prevent

687
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: you from taking that step. And we actually refer to

688
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: this as what's called the misguided protector in our mind,

689
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 1: it's that voice, it's an inner deceiver, and it's trying

690
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: to protect us, but it's misguided. But fundamentally, it will

691
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: highlight everything that could go wrong, so that we don't

692
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: take action because then it succeeds, then we're safe, but

693
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: we're stuck. And then the other extreme, of course, is

694
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: only visualizing where we want to be because again it's certainty. No,

695
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: I'm guaranteed for that to happen. And then we know

696
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: what happens when you hit a roadblock. Suddenly everything crumbles

697
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: and then you go into the other side. Oh no,

698
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: all these things are going to go wrong. So when

699
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: we recognize that this is just our brain doing what

700
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: it needs to do, there's something else which is really

701
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: interesting here. There is a connection between intelligence and anxiety.

702
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: People who tend to be higher on intelligent IQ ratings

703
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 1: of IQ, they tend to be more aware of complexity,

704
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: more aware of all the risks that could go wrong,

705
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 1: which then leads them to overthink about those risks and

706
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: then overthink about what could happen if those risks actually occurred,

707
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: which increases anxiety, which reduces confidence and then reinforces that

708
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: initial state of awareness of the complexity. And so if

709
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you feel like you're constantly

710
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: overthinking and you're constantly aware of risks, it could be

711
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: that you have a slightly higher than average IQ. But

712
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: it's also important to know that we can break that cycle.

713
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: We call it the spiral interrupt technique. When this is happening,

714
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: the part of the brain that's activated is the emotion center,

715
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: the threat detection center. It's trying to identify everything that

716
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: could go wrong to keep you safe. So what you

717
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: can do is control your attention. Bring your attention back

718
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: to what can I control right now by literally saying

719
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: to yourself, this is my brain doing what it does.

720
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: I am safe to act anyway. So again, simply by

721
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: doing that, by consciously controlling your thoughts, you are re

722
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: engaging those prefrontal regions, which reduces activity in the amygdala,

723
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: in the fear centers, and allows you to have that

724
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: of rationality. So then decide what's next.

725
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can think of a really good personal example

726
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: of that. I remember. So, I was very fortunate to

727
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 2: go to public speaking school from age eleven to eighteen

728
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 2: and had training and found it comfortable being on stage

729
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,720
Speaker 2: and everything else. But then as soon as my scales

730
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: started to change and I started to work in different

731
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: audiences and different arenas, in different spaces, I could notice

732
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: that my heart rate would go up. I could notice

733
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: that my hands would start to shake. I could notice

734
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 2: that I felt sweaty palms. I could notice that I

735
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: felt nervous and anxious. And I used to start to think, well,

736
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 2: I have the skills, and I'd like, what am I

737
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 2: doing wrong here? Like you know, and I'd overthink that,

738
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: and then I'd overthinking, go, oh my god, everyone's going

739
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: to see my handshaking, and then am I going to

740
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: hold the card? Or like should I put it down?

741
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 2: Or like what if my slides? And then you're overthinking it,

742
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: and it was it's what you just said. And I

743
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 2: had a different set of words for it that I

744
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 2: would say internally, and it was just, no, this is

745
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: what happens when I care. Yeah, And what I started

746
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 2: to realize was, oh, when I care, my body's going

747
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 2: to do this. And I can go and give an

748
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 2: amazing talk anyway, but I care. That's all it's showing me.

749
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 2: And I don't need to stop this or I don't

750
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 2: need to get over this, or I don't need this

751
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: to disappear in order for me to go out there

752
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 2: and do what I do. And you're so right that

753
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 2: simple moment of and it goes back to acceptance that

754
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: this is just biologically what happens when I care. Yeah,

755
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: get a bit nervous and yea, my heart beats faster

756
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 2: and all the things that and it's like, Okay, if

757
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: I can reframe that, so much can happen.

758
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned that one as well, this

759
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: idea of caring, because when we acknowledge that our brain

760
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: is just doing what it's wired to do, and then

761
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: we can essentially interpret what we're feeling in a way

762
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: that's going to serve us. And so we can either

763
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: interpret that heart rate, as you said, as you get

764
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: into the overthinking of the overthinking and then you're stressed

765
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: about the stress. It's called a meta emotion where it's

766
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: like an emotion about an emotion and it just spirals

767
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 1: out of control. Or you can say, no, no, this

768
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: is my brain is just doing its job. I'm prepared,

769
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm ready, I'm going to be of service here. I care.

770
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 1: I care about delivering a good outcome. And it's powerful

771
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: when you recognize that.

772
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the second A Okay, so.

773
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: That's the first day, that's acceptance, the second eight.

774
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 2: There's so much more in the book. I just read

775
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 2: so much more there's so much more in the book.

776
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 2: I am just moving us through as rediscussed about, how

777
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 2: do you want to.

778
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: Hear one other thing for people who struggle with acceptance,

779
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 1: just because it comes up so frequently, especially for people

780
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: early in their careers. And this was me fifteen years ago,

781
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: working in corporate in a male dominated environment. I started

782
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: my career as a lawyer, commercial law. I was in

783
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: that industry for four years. Then I moved into banking

784
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: and finance for six years. Oh gosh. The whole time,

785
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: I felt like an impostor. I felt like I didn't belong.

786
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: I felt like a hiring mistake. But I get I

787
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: got very good at faking it. So okay, now I'm

788
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: going to share a little bit of my story. So

789
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: when I was very young, the age of three or four,

790
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: I had a beautiful, supportive Persian family and we'd always

791
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: get together at my grandparents' house and have kebbab that

792
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: my grandpa would make, and then after dinner, so I

793
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: was I liked performing as a kid after dinner there

794
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 1: would be this chance shah thereby I had bed asset,

795
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: which means shah de has to dance for us, and

796
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: it was great when I was a kid. I'd get

797
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: up and I'd do my little thing, and they'd watch

798
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: and they'd cheer, and it was fantastic. But then as

799
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: I got older, I started to enjoy it less and less.

800
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: But I didn't know how to say no, and so

801
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: at the age of nine or ten or twelve, I

802
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: still felt like I had to perform to make people happy.

803
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: This was entirely in my head. If I had communicated

804
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: to them or said a boundary, I said, look, I

805
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: don't feel like it, they would have been fine. My

806
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: family loved me. I didn't know, and I internalized from

807
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,479
Speaker 1: a young age that I am only as good as

808
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: the performance I'm giving, which means making other people happy.

809
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: And I have carried that with me through my entire career.

810
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: In fact, one of the drivers of me doing a PhD,

811
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: which was one of the hardest things I've ever done,

812
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: was because of this feeling of not being enough and

813
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: needing to still prove myself, which is the wrong reason

814
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: to do anything. And I will tell you this much

815
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: it's done, and I still don't feel I still haven't

816
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: developed that acceptance. So it's an ongoing process for me,

817
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: and I'm very aware of it and I'm working on

818
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: the habits to develop it. But when I entered the workforce,

819
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: so I did law because I did really great in

820
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: high school and I had a lot of pressure to

821
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: use those grades. So it was like law, medicine engineering.

822
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to do meta engineering, so I did law.

823
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: I did it with psychology because I was passionate about people.

824
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: But law was so difficult for me that I had

825
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: to focus so much on it and I had to

826
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: overcompensate because I didn't feel like I belonged. I tried

827
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: to drop it after the first class, but any case,

828
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: I kept with it never felt like I belonged. I

829
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,479
Speaker 1: was able to do really well. I got fantastic grades

830
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: at the end, got a job in a top tier

831
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: commercial law firm, but that feeling of this is not me,

832
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: this is not for me, stuck with me, and I

833
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: was trying to fake it till I made it. So

834
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 1: I was becoming someone different. I was speaking differently, I

835
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: was showing up differently, trying to sound smart and credible,

836
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: using big, fancy words to fit in. What I now

837
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: know is that that can backfire. Studies have been found

838
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: that when you use unnecessarily complex language where you're trying

839
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: to be perceived as more credible and competent. It does

840
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: the opposite, and it undermines your credibility and your competence. Simplicity,

841
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: it's all about simplicity. But I didn't know that, so

842
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 1: I carried that through banking. I was so full of anxiety.

843
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 1: I literally hide behind my cubicle so people couldn't give

844
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 1: me work because if they didn't know I was there,

845
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: I wouldn't basically be given it. Then I moved into

846
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: banking and finance, convinced that if I moved into a

847
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: different industry, I could start fresh, reinvent myself, leave the

848
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: doubt behind. Do you think that happened. No, absolutely not.

849
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: Doubt doesn't work like that. I took it with me

850
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: because of my self image, because I was carrying that

851
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 1: self image around the scars I had. And again I

852
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: came from a wonderfully supportive family, and still I had scars.

853
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: And one of the things as I was doing research

854
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,439
Speaker 1: for this book is there's a lot of talk about

855
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: attachment theory and those early experiences. What some people experience

856
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: is a secure attachment style when they're young. They have

857
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: a supportive environment, full of love and validation and yet

858
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: still as adults, they feel like they're not enough, and

859
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: could be one of two reasons. It could be that

860
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 1: you feel so indebted to your family that you feel

861
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: like you need to keep performing for them to make

862
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: them proud. The second reason is that you might also

863
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: have had a sibling who was challenging just by nature

864
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,479
Speaker 1: of their personality, and you saw that and you didn't

865
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 1: want to be that, and so you became the opposite.

866
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: You became the good kid to be that for your parents,

867
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: and you just take that with you. So that was me,

868
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: and then I started feeling guilty about why am I

869
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: feeling this self doubt? I have no reason to, and

870
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: so it became this whole big thing. Anyway, seven years

871
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 1: in banking and finance, I eventually found my way. I

872
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: tapped into roles that I loved, learned to lean on

873
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: my strengths, and I stopped trying to be like everybody

874
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: else and realized, hey, I'm here because I have some

875
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: value to offer. How do I tap into that value?

876
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 1: And then so that was kind of my journey, and

877
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 1: that I completely forgot the question that you asked me.

878
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: But that's a little bit about my how I got there, Oh,

879
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: what I wanted to share is something that I used

880
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: to do, which people listening might do if they struggle

881
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 1: with acceptance. Because we want other people to be happy

882
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: with us, we say yes compulsively, reflexively before we even

883
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: know what we're saying yes to, So we end up

884
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: taking on more work, we end up doing more than

885
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: most people, We end up exhausted because we don't know

886
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: how to say no. Say no is a superpower, but

887
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: it all comes down to how you say it. So

888
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: something that we encourage is what's called intentional delay. All

889
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: it means studies have found that if you just delay

890
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: by a number of milliseconds, you make a better decision

891
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: under pressure. So what that means is if someone asks

892
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: you to do something, instead of immediately yes sure and

893
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 1: then having to spend your entire weekend at work, you

894
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,919
Speaker 1: would say, I would love to help let me get

895
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: back to you by the end of the day to

896
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: make sure I am able to or let me check

897
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: my calendar and I'll get back to you within an hour.

898
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: So you're doing two things. You're creating a delay and

899
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 1: then committing to get back to them. That process allows

900
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: you some space to then ask yourself Okay, is this

901
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: something that I genuinely want to do or I feel

902
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: compelled to do because I don't feel like I'm enough.

903
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: You run it through that little criteria, and then if

904
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: it's compulsion because you don't feel like you're enough, you

905
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: give them a polite decline, and if it is something

906
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: you want to do, you go ahead and you do it.

907
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 1: That is a powerful way to remind yourself that what

908
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 1: you need matters to and you can politely decline without

909
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: affecting a relationship.

910
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the hardest part. I think we all have,

911
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 2: because I know you write about in the book that

912
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: we respond to social rejection like physical pain. Yes, we

913
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: think that if someone and social rejection works two ways, right,

914
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: Like one social rejection is you're not invited to a party.

915
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: But the other type of social rejection is you saying

916
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: no and then thinking the other person thinks you're mean

917
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 2: or bad or rejects you in the sense of, oh,

918
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: you're not good at your job. And I think we

919
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 2: often don't talk about that second version of social rejection,

920
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 2: which you get from standing up, setting boundaries whatever it

921
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: may be, where you go. I don't think I can

922
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 2: do that, and then someone goes, oh, I knew you

923
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: didn't care, right, like a friend or whatever it may be.

924
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 2: And that's a feeling of social rejection, which feels like

925
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 2: a punch in the gut. It does feels like someone

926
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 2: just stabbed you because you're like, no, I don't care.

927
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: I love you, I'm there for you, and you're like no, no, no.

928
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 2: So so many of these things are so hardwired, Like

929
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: you just said, your example is, I was listening to

930
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 2: you speak, and I was thinking about your beautiful family

931
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 2: who loves you, and and I get that. It's so

932
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: in our head where it's like, oh, I have to dance.

933
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 2: I've always danced, I've always made everyone laugh, I've always

934
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,240
Speaker 2: told jokes. I've always got good grades. I'm the good kid.

935
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: I'm the hyper Labels the labels, right, and those labels,

936
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 2: most of us put them on ourselves. Sometimes they did

937
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 2: come through teachers and parents. Of course, there's plenty of

938
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 2: versions of that. Ripping off a label is not easy.

939
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: It's painful.

940
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 2: It's painful, right, so that ripping off a name tag

941
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 2: is wherever, but ripping off a label is so much

942
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: more painful. How do you encourage people to go through

943
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 2: that process of ripping off a label. I'm the dancer,

944
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 2: I'm the entertainer, I'm the performer. When it shows up

945
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 2: in all areas of their life. They're now doing it

946
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: for their partner, they're now doing it at their job,

947
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 2: they're now doing it to their siblings. And it's like, well,

948
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: if I start tearing this off, people are also going

949
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 2: to be like, Oh, you don't want to entertain me anymore. Oh,

950
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: you don't want to make.

951
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: Me laugh anymore, you don't care about me any.

952
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 2: Don't care about me anymore. And that's what they're really saying.

953
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: So the cost of ripping off a label is so

954
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 2: high for people, How do you begin that journey?

955
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 3: Like?

956
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 2: What do you do?

957
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: So to peel off a label? You need to have

958
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 1: a deeper yes? What does that mean? We often say

959
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: yes to other people because we're trying to maintain who

960
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: we are and that perception, and again, that risk of

961
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: social rejection is so painful that we want to avoid it.

962
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: What's really helpful is to okay, you know that there's

963
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: a yes that you can be given them. What is

964
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,959
Speaker 1: your deeper yes? What is you declining this thing going

965
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 1: to allow you to say yes too? Which is actually

966
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: more important for you in the long run. So it

967
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: might be saying no to working late tonight is me

968
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: saying yes to spending more time with my kids before

969
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 1: dinner time, me saying yes to investing in my physical health.

970
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: So there's this idea of know what your deeper yes is,

971
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: so that you're not just saying no to someone, you're

972
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,879
Speaker 1: actually honoring something within you. But the second element these

973
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: labels that we wear. The brain loves labels because the

974
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: brain lacks efficiency because it wants to operate with the

975
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: least amount of metabolic energy. So it'll label things hot, cold, good, bad, true, false.

976
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: And we also slap these labels in ourselves. I like

977
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 1: to encourage people once you're aware of your labels. Now,

978
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 1: how do you know what a label is? It's anything

979
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: you put off after the words I am, I am intense,

980
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: I am boring, I am unworthy, I am such a procrastinator.

981
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: These are labels. The more moment we have I am

982
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: before something, we are internalizing that we're making it mean

983
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: something about us and we are identifying with it. And

984
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: this is really dangerous refusing with that label. So we

985
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: had a client that we worked with right around the

986
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: time of the pandemic. She just started a new job.

987
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: She was a senior leader and she when I initially

988
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 1: met her, I said, tell me about yourself. So she shared,

989
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: she loves pickleball like you Jay. She was a mother.

990
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: She had just started this new job, and she said,

991
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: and I can be intense. But when she said I

992
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: can be intense, her entire face wrinkled in disgust. So

993
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: I knew there was something there, and I said, what

994
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: makes you use that label? So quick side note, this

995
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: is just a little other tip. I avoid using the

996
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: word why in any conversations, in any client meetings, the

997
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: word why can be like an interrogation. People get defensive.

998
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: Why j why that you suddenly get on edge. But

999
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: if you say what, what was the reason? It's so valuable.

1000
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 1: And this is effective for teamwork, This is effective for feedback,

1001
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: even speaking to your partner. So this little side note,

1002
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: But in any case, I asked her, I said, what

1003
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 1: does that label mean to you? Where does it come from?

1004
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 1: And she said, well, when I was leaving my previous role.

1005
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: As I was leaving, my boss said, oh, you're intense,

1006
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 1: but we'll miss you. And that label stuck. And this

1007
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: was a label that she'd stuck on as an adult,

1008
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: but when we dug deeper, we found out. So she

1009
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: was one of I think seven kids in an Egyptian family.

1010
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: When she was a kid, she was the youngest and

1011
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: she had to fight for attention, so she was loud,

1012
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: she would scream, she was what they would call too

1013
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: much all the time, and so as a kid, she

1014
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: internalized this belief of I am too much. And so

1015
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: when this label got attached to her intense, it brought

1016
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: back all those memories. And so if someone has a

1017
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 1: label like this, what's really important to do is to

1018
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: acknowledge that you don't have to necessarily rip it off.

1019
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:55,240
Speaker 1: You can replace it. So with her, I said, okay,

1020
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 1: so describe your intensity to me. And she described what

1021
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 1: it meant. And I said, okay, well, I that as passion.

1022
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: What if you said I'm passionate? And she had this

1023
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: moment of recognition in her face. She said, Oh, my goodness,

1024
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: you are so right. I'm passionate about what I do.

1025
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: I'm passionate about life. That is why I care so much.

1026
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: It's pure passionate, it's not intensity. And that moment of

1027
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: recognition fundamentally changed the meaning she'd applied to the quality

1028
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: that she had, and then she started showing up with

1029
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 1: that passion and owning that passion, and that was her

1030
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: reclaiming a label. But if you have a label like

1031
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 1: I'm boring or I'm such a procrastinator, you need to

1032
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: shift it into something that is growth oriented or actually positive.

1033
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: So we hear I'm boring a lot from the people

1034
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: that we work with, and we supplore it. Yeah, when

1035
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: we get down to it, a lot of them will

1036
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: claim that they get funny enough. I have a scar.

1037
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: I feel like my story is boring. I don't like

1038
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: talking about myself too much because I genuinely don't think

1039
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: I have an interesting life or interesting story. So I

1040
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: have this I'm boring narrative. I don't know where it

1041
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 1: came from. Actually I probably do. I'm not going to

1042
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: share that, but God, so I when I was in

1043
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: high school, my parents went through a divorce. It was amicable.

1044
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: I'm blessed with a truly remarkable family. It was an

1045
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: amicable divorce. But naturally, anyone who experiences that, you start

1046
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 1: to question could I have done anything differently? Should I

1047
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: have been more supportive? Should I have done this or

1048
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: been a better kid? And so I internalized that, and

1049
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: one way that that came out is not wanting to

1050
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: talk about it with anybody, because it's almost like if

1051
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: I spoke about it, it would make it worse. So

1052
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 1: I just bottled it all up. And so from around fifteen,

1053
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: I stopped sharing about myself. In fact, even when I

1054
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: entered the workforce, I had a group of work friends

1055
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,399
Speaker 1: and one of them broke up with me. A female friend.

1056
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: She broke up with our friendship because she said, I

1057
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 1: feel like I don't know anything about you, and you

1058
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 1: know so much about me. What she was referring to

1059
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 1: in that situation was I don't like to share a

1060
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: lot of the negative things going on in my life.

1061
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: A lot of especially women, and like to connect by

1062
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 1: sharing negative things. All you think that's bad, look at

1063
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 1: what I'm going through, and that's how they bond, which

1064
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: in itself is not necessarily healthy. But because I wasn't

1065
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,399
Speaker 1: sharing much about myself at all or any of that,

1066
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: I wasn't able to connect with people. And so that

1067
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: is something that I have taken with me through my

1068
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: entire life, and I'm still kind of trying to shake it.

1069
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: But this idea of replacing a label would be Okay,

1070
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: so a boring label could be you'd replace it with

1071
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,240
Speaker 1: I am thoughtful and I like to give other people

1072
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 1: time to share what they're going through. Right, So it's

1073
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: not I'm boring, it's just no, I'm more thoughtful. I

1074
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: prefer careful deliberation, and I like things to be stable

1075
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: and grounded, and I like making other people feel seen.

1076
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: That's one way that you take a behavioral characteristic that

1077
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: you have and flip it into something that is not

1078
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: a negative, which then allows you to feel like you

1079
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: can build on it. What about I'm such a procrastinator.

1080
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: We get a lot of these, so we share a

1081
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: lot of content on social media, we get a lot

1082
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: of people commenting and sharing, and this idea of I'm

1083
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,439
Speaker 1: really you know, I procrastinate all the time, I can't

1084
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,959
Speaker 1: get started. You shift from I'm a procrastinator to I'm

1085
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 1: learning to be better with my time and take action

1086
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: over overthinking. So you take a label and you shift

1087
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: it into what you want, and that's one way that

1088
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: you're changing that self image. You're changing it to be

1089
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: what you're aspiring to work towards. And once you can

1090
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 1: see that, you're more likely to actually move towards it.

1091
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I mean thank you for sharing that back.

1092
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 2: Of course, thank you for being so open, because yeah,

1093
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 2: it's always harder to share those types of things and

1094
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 2: the things you're struggling with. And I can relate to

1095
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:37,919
Speaker 2: what you're saying as well, Like I find myself being

1096
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 2: someone who loves deep, thoughtful conversation, so I gravitate towards

1097
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 2: one to one even in a big group of people.

1098
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 2: And initially many years ago, and especially when I moved

1099
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 2: to LA and you know, got invite to all sorts

1100
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 2: of events and everything, in the beginning, I would just

1101
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 2: feel like, oh, I didn't There was a part that

1102
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 2: felt I didn't belong at these events because I was

1103
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 2: surrounded by people that I grew up watching on TV

1104
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 2: and film. And then there was another side of me,

1105
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 2: more interestingly, which was, oh, I don't know how to

1106
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 2: do small talk and small talk's not my thing and

1107
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 2: I don't know how to navigate that. And that even

1108
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 2: happened when I went into the corporate world, because after

1109
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 2: I left the monastery where we didn't do a lot

1110
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 2: of small talk, it was very difficult for me to

1111
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 2: go into corporate networking scenarios because to me, the conversation

1112
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 2: just didn't go anywhere, and at that time, I would

1113
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,320
Speaker 2: start to think, maybe I'm boring, Maybe I have nothing

1114
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,760
Speaker 2: to say. Oh I'm not that funny because I can't

1115
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 2: just quip and whatever. And I'm good at building rapport

1116
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 2: one on one, but just in a group, I just

1117
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 2: didn't feel confident about it. And I started to reframe

1118
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 2: it as I'm just going to look for the one

1119
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 2: person that I can have the deepest, most beautiful conversation with.

1120
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: And what's amazing is wherever I go, I have to

1121
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 2: go to so many events for work or whatever is

1122
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 2: and I just found the one person that I had

1123
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 2: the most meaningful connection with. And what I found is

1124
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: that just turned into loads of great friendships. And so

1125
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,800
Speaker 2: now I never feel alone anywhere because I know someone deeply.

1126
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 2: They're knowing a lot of people in a shallow way

1127
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 2: where I can still feel alone and disconnecting. What was

1128
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: helpful for me was there are certain settings where I

1129
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 2: will be boring, but there are certain settings where I'm

1130
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: the least boring person in the world, and I'm just

1131
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 2: looking for those And that acceptance allowed me to play

1132
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 2: to my strengths and who I want to be and

1133
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 2: what kind of conversations I want to have, And it's like,

1134
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 2: I want to get to know someone deeply. I want

1135
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: to share intimate things. I want to hear things back.

1136
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 2: I want to hear about worldviews, like I'm fascinated by that.

1137
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 2: What I don't want to hear about is where's the

1138
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 2: best restaurant for dinner? I'm just not interested, Like that's

1139
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 2: not And so in that conversation, I am boring, And

1140
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 2: that's okay because I don't want to be interesting there.

1141
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 2: And so I love what you're saying because there's so

1142
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 2: much freedom when you address the truth of it and

1143
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:55,839
Speaker 2: you find the part of it that is, like you said,

1144
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 2: growth oriented, not just positive. We're not positively spinning it

1145
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:03,280
Speaker 2: because that just feels fake. But it's where's the growth

1146
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 2: side of this? That's what it was for me. The

1147
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 2: growth side was go and find someone who wants the

1148
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 2: same thing as you, because then you'll have a great time.

1149
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 1: How did you so when you were starting, let's let's

1150
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: live to you if you don't mind, so let's do it.

1151
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is your version of I'm boring side. I

1152
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 2: listened to other people.

1153
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: Oh yes, so when you were starting in this space

1154
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: and you found yourself in those situations. What kind of

1155
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: self talk helped you stay grounded and not become self critical?

1156
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 2: The first thing I realized, And a lot of my

1157
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 2: approach has been inspired through my monk teachers. So a

1158
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 2: lot of what I would hear in my self talk

1159
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 2: was what I'd learned. And so whenever I would go

1160
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 2: to events in the beginning, people say did you talk

1161
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 2: to this person? And did you network with this person?

1162
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 2: Did you talk to this person? I was like no,

1163
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 2: because I don't think that is the right thing to do.

1164
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 2: Like I don't I don't think me going up to

1165
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 2: someone that I don't know and doesn't know me and

1166
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 2: starting up a conversation is authentic to me and who

1167
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 2: I want to be. If it happens authentically, that's amazing,

1168
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 2: but that's not authentic to me. My my authentic version

1169
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 2: is to help people feel safe and comfortable, smile, be

1170
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: courteous and kind, but to not be invasive, especially in

1171
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 2: places where everyone's kind of stressed and anxious. And and

1172
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 2: so my approach has always been to talk to someone

1173
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 2: if they talk to me, to smile at someone, and

1174
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 2: if there's a you feel a sense of like I

1175
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 2: we're both looking for someone to connect to find it

1176
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 2: and recognize that ultimately everyone's feeling anxious here. So there's

1177
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 2: no one who's feeling confident and you're feeling anxious. Everyone's

1178
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 2: feeling anxious because no one knows anyone and no one

1179
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 2: knows who to talk to. So I think for me,

1180
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 2: my self talk was trust hence beautiful title big, trust

1181
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 2: your book. Trust that you don't have to meet everyone.

1182
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: This isn't your only opportunity to do sell yours. This

1183
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 2: idea of like like you know, sell yourself, hand out

1184
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 2: your business card, every like I'm like, having a meaningful

1185
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 2: connection with someone is probably more valuable than handing your

1186
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 2: business card and shaking hands with everyone in the room

1187
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 2: just so you can say you shook hands with so

1188
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 2: and so and X, Y and Z. It's like to me,

1189
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 2: it was it was reminding myself that value was deep,

1190
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 2: it was meaningful, it was purposeful, it was intentional, it

1191
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 2: was it was mutual. The imposter syndrome part, there was

1192
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 2: definitely a lot of negative self talk at the stuff

1193
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,479
Speaker 2: like you don't belong here, it shouldn't be in this room,

1194
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 2: like oh my god, you know, and I'd freeze a

1195
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 2: lot and just I'm not even going to say a

1196
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 2: low to that. I'm not even gonna smile because you're

1197
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 2: so stressed out. Yeah, and I think the self talk

1198
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 2: that got away that helped me get through that, I

1199
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 2: realized it wasn't self talk. It was just showing up

1200
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 2: and sitting in that discomfort. It wasn't so there was

1201
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 2: no self talk, and I know that's going to lead

1202
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 2: to it that it was just continuing to show up

1203
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 2: feeling that discomfort, feeling that uncertainty, and recognizing that it

1204
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 2: didn't stop me from connecting, smiling, meeting being myself. And

1205
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 2: the biggest question I'd always asked myself. Actually, Trevannoah said

1206
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 2: this to me when he came on the show. He

1207
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 2: was like, Jay, you always fel comfortable at all the

1208
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 2: things you're at, and I wouldn't sense that you don't.

1209
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 2: And I said, well, that's because I only go to

1210
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 2: things I feel I have a purpose at. And that

1211
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 2: solved everything to me, where I was like, if I

1212
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 2: know why I'm going somewhere, I can show up as

1213
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 2: my best self. If I don't know why I'm going there,

1214
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 2: and I kind of think someone thinks I should go there,

1215
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 2: or someone on my team said it would be a

1216
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 2: good idea. Now I hate being there because I'm lost,

1217
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 2: Whereas if I know what my purpose is and why

1218
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 2: I'm standing there, great like I could be alone there,

1219
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 2: I could be everyone's best friend there, I could be

1220
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 2: anything anyway. Sorry, long answer, no brilliant answer, the nuance

1221
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 2: and complexity and not give you a you know, a throwaway.

1222
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 1: It was wonderful. Thank you so much, and I'm sure

1223
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: everyone listening appreciates so much hearing your own journey and

1224
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 1: your perspective as we go through this. There's a few

1225
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 1: things that came to mind as you were speaking. One

1226
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 1: of the things you said is that mistake that we

1227
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: make when we think we're the only one feeling a

1228
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 1: certain way. Everyone else must be confident I'm the only one.

1229
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: It's called pluralistic ignorance.

1230
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 2: Interesting, I didn't know that way.

1231
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: Everyone actually feels that way. I mean, look, we say everyone,

1232
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: probably ninety five percent of people will feel that. But

1233
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: as you said, your ability to just show up in

1234
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 1: the discomfort and acknowledge that, hey it's uncomfortable, but I'm here,

1235
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 1: I'm safe, it's fine. That makes it easier. The next

1236
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 1: time you do it, you develop what's called a tolerance

1237
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: for discomfort, and that leads to amazing things. And then

1238
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: the other thing you highlighted is that what helped you

1239
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: is this idea of having a purpose and this idea

1240
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: of not making it about you. It was this concept

1241
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: of self forgetting that I'd mentioned as one of the

1242
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: we call it the gift of self acceptance is the

1243
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: ability to forget yourself and make it about other people.

1244
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 1: So you said, if I have something meaningful to share

1245
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: which is not about you, that's about adding something to

1246
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: them that allows those voices to quiet in because it's

1247
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: not just you doing it because you want to or

1248
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: you think you need to, or you think you should.

1249
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: It's for their sake. So that's beautiful. And then I

1250
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: love how you brought in imposter syndrome, which brings us

1251
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: beautifully to the second pillar, which is agency. So just

1252
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: my way of recap, we've just covered acceptance for everyone listening,

1253
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: and acceptance is essentially, when your self esteem is shaky,

1254
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: you seek validation. You feel like you need to prove

1255
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: your worth. Your sense of identity is attached to what

1256
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 1: you're producing or performing or achieving. The next way that

1257
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 1: self doubt can show up is not to do with

1258
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: the I'm not enough or I'm not worthy, and entirely

1259
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: to do with the can I actually do this thing?

1260
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 1: Do I have the skills and the ability to do it?

1261
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 1: And what we see here is a lot of people

1262
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: will fall into imposter syndrome.

1263
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 2: Shay, can you actually define what imposter syndrome is?

1264
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 1: Imposter syndrome actually doesn't exist in the literature and the

1265
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 1: research as the term imposter syndrome. It's called imposter phenomenon. Now,

1266
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: just notice the difference between a syndrome and a phenomenon.

1267
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 1: One of them is a behavioral phenomen phenomenon that was

1268
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: observed among a group of people. The other one pathologizes

1269
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 1: it and makes it seem like there's something wrong with us.

1270
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 1: So imposter syndrome was initially discovered in the nineteen seventies

1271
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: where they were specifically looking at women. So this was

1272
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: high achieving women, women who had just entered the workforce,

1273
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: women who had PhDs and a strong track record behind them,

1274
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: and they felt like they didn't belong, They felt like

1275
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: they were frauds, They felt that they were undeserving of

1276
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: their success, They felt that everyone else thought that they

1277
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: were smarter or more capable than they really were. So

1278
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: there's two elements for the impost phenomenon we'll move away

1279
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: from syndrome imposter phenomenon. The first element is that you

1280
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 1: feel like a fraud that other people believe you to

1281
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 1: be something you're not. And the second element is that

1282
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: you have to have some kind of track record behind

1283
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: you that allows you to feel like I don't deserve this.

1284
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 1: If you feel like an impostor and you've just started

1285
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: a new job, it's probably not impostor right, It's just

1286
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 1: I'm in a new environment. I need to give myself

1287
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: grace to learn. When we sell I diagnosed and say,

1288
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I'm such an imposter, this is imposter

1289
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: syndrome that can lead us to withdraw even further. We

1290
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 1: use it as an excuse. So remind yourself, no, the

1291
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: imposter syndrome or imposter phenomenon is only when I have

1292
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 1: achieved something. I've just won this award, I've got this

1293
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: amazing job, and I can demonstrate that I've got all

1294
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 1: these achievements behind me, but I still don't feel I

1295
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 1: deserve it. Yes, that is the definition of imposter phenomenon,

1296
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: and it is so common, not just among women, but

1297
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 1: also among men. Some studies have found that up to

1298
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,439
Speaker 1: eighty two percent of people at some point have felt

1299
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: like a fraud. So if you've ever felt this way, firstly,

1300
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 1: rest assured you're in very good company. The next thing

1301
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: to be aware of with imposter syndrome or phenomenon is

1302
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 1: if you feel like a fraud, Rather than hearing that

1303
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: voice saying you don't belong, don't speak to that person,

1304
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: don't speak up, flip it immediately to Wow, what an

1305
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 1: amazing opportunity I have to learn and grow? Who can

1306
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: I learn from? What do I need to develop here?

1307
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 1: And it's this idea of shifting from almost comparison into

1308
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 1: emulation or envy into study. Make it something action oriented

1309
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: that's really powerful, and speak to someone about it. So,

1310
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: you know, Jason Siegal from How I Met Your Mother,

1311
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 1: he was describing on a podcast how he was when

1312
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 1: he transitioned from actor into director on Dispatches for Elsewhere.

1313
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: From Elsewhere, he was so full of imposter syndrome and anxiety,

1314
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 1: and he said he didn't know what to do. He

1315
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 1: was overthinking and it was becoming this big thing. So

1316
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:31,959
Speaker 1: finally he calls all the crew together and in front

1317
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: of everyone. He says, Hey, everyone, this is my first

1318
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 1: time doing this. Don't really know what I'm doing. If

1319
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: I do anything that bugs you, let me know. I'm

1320
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 1: sure we're going to have an amazing time. He called

1321
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: it out. He acknowledged he didn't try to be perfect,

1322
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 1: as we try to do when we feel like the impost.

1323
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:50,959
Speaker 1: We try to overcompensate so people don't find us out.

1324
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 1: But he just acknowledged it. And he said it was

1325
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: incredibly freeing. When you call out the fear, it shrinks it.

1326
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: And so if you're ever feeling this way, speak to

1327
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 1: someone about it. You'll probably find they've been there too.

1328
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I love what you said about this idea

1329
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 2: of because a lot of people ask me, they're like, Jay,

1330
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 2: do you ever still feel self doubt or like an impost?

1331
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 2: And I said, I always feel it when I'm doing

1332
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 2: something new. Yeah, and that has made me realize that

1333
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 2: it's got nothing to do with me. No, it's because

1334
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get out of my comfort zone. Yes,

1335
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 2: So I love it now. So I love the idea

1336
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 2: of feeling that way because it's proof to me that

1337
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 2: I'm pushing myself outside of my comfort zone. I'm trying

1338
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 2: something new or expanding something where building a new business,

1339
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 2: for starting a new venture, we're creating a new service,

1340
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 2: purpose program, whatever it may be. It's like I've just

1341
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 2: never done it before. And yeah, if I keep doing

1342
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 2: everything I've always done, I don't get nervous anymore. But

1343
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 2: that's boring to me. Yes, and that's not exciting. And

1344
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 2: so now that feeling of being uncomfortable and being nervous

1345
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 2: and being wondering whether I fit in and everything is

1346
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 2: great because it's a sign to me that I'm moving forward.

1347
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 1: Yes, it's growth with it integrity, as we say, because

1348
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: if you had blind delusion, you wouldn't feel the doubt.

1349
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 2: Yes, right exactly.

1350
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 1: So you've got the integrity, the intellectual humility to know, Okay,

1351
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: I haven't done this before. Here are the gaps. But

1352
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,760
Speaker 1: you're embracing the discomfort that comes with growth. You only

1353
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 1: experience that kind of imposter feeling when you're stretched. You

1354
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 1: would never feel that if you know how to do everything,

1355
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: and if you're fully comfortable.

1356
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 2: And if you're a narcissist like you're actually, yes, well.

1357
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 1: Do you need to acknowledge It's like five to eight

1358
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:27,439
Speaker 1: percent of the population that we're not talking about.

1359
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, but no, but that delusion point is true

1360
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 2: that if anyone ever says, oh, I never feel any

1361
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 2: self doubt, there's a sense of delusional confidence or a

1362
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 2: lack of self aware, a lack of self awareness, which

1363
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 2: isn't healthy because you're convinced, and it almost is an

1364
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 2: insecurity projection because you're convincing yourself. No, no, of course

1365
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:48,959
Speaker 2: I don't feel anything. It's like, well, no, everyone's human

1366
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 2: would feel. You'd feel something, no matter even if it

1367
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 2: was really small, like if I feel this is a

1368
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 2: terrible example, but because I don't cook, I can't cook

1369
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 2: to same my life. It's like if if my wife

1370
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 2: asked me to cook dinner, I would be freaking out

1371
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 2: because I want to have a clue of what to do.

1372
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 2: And it's the small it's a very small thing, like

1373
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 2: people know how to do it. It's simple. It seems

1374
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 2: like an easy risk. Yeah, now risk, yeah to some degree, yeah, exactly.

1375
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,719
Speaker 2: But that's the point that it's it's not even about

1376
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 2: the grandiosity of the task. It's about what's new to

1377
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 2: you and what you find difficult. And so no one

1378
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 2: can even say, oh, but that's small or that's big, big,

1379
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 2: and smaller, not the indicators of whether you feel uncomfortable.

1380
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 2: And so for someone something uncomfortable might be doing something

1381
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 2: really small, and for someone else, you might be doing

1382
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 2: something really big.

1383
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:38,679
Speaker 1: And exactly exactly. And a big part of that comes

1384
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 1: down to your level of agency. Where do you fall

1385
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 1: on that scale. So agency relates to what's called self efficacy.

1386
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: That's a personality trade, which is the belief that you

1387
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 1: can do what you need to do to achieve what

1388
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 1: you want to achieve. I want to take you somewhere,

1389
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: which relates to this, and it actually relates to the

1390
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 1: overarching theme of the book Jay. If I were to

1391
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 1: ask you, I mean, we've kind of primed it now,

1392
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 1: but if I were to ask you off the top

1393
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 1: of your head, what do you think the opposite of

1394
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:03,680
Speaker 1: self doubt is?

1395
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:04,719
Speaker 2: Is it not self trust?

1396
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: Yeah? So AT primed you, so it's absolutely self trust.

1397
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 1: So we find though that ninety percent of people, if

1398
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,720
Speaker 1: we haven't had this conversation, I should have asked you

1399
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 1: that at the very beginning, when we ask this question,

1400
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 1: ninety percent of people will say that it is or

1401
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: ninety five percent will say it is confidence. Confidence, And

1402
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: so many people so much of the population are waiting

1403
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,639
Speaker 1: for that feeling of confidence before they take that step.

1404
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: They say, I'll know when I'm ready. You know, that

1405
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 1: feeling of confidence that we wait for. Actually, when we

1406
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 1: look at the literature, it does not come before we

1407
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 1: take the action. It comes after we take the action.

1408
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 1: Because the brain needs to see yourself doing the thing.

1409
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 1: It gets a proof point, it gets an evidence point,

1410
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 1: Hey I can do this. That then builds a degree

1411
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,760
Speaker 1: of skill and competence. Hey I did it and I

1412
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 1: was okay, and I got better, which then boosts your

1413
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:57,840
Speaker 1: self efficacy, and then that creates momentum and motivation. And

1414
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 1: that is the feeling that we've a asociated with confidence.

1415
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 2: So what do we need before the.

1416
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 1: What do we need before Well, when we actually look

1417
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 1: at the word confidence, So I think this is where

1418
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 1: the mix up happened. When we look at the origins

1419
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 1: of the word confidence. It comes from the words in

1420
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:16,759
Speaker 1: Latin con and fidere, meaning with trust. And so really,

1421
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 1: what we need before we take action is not that

1422
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 1: feeling that we're waiting for. It's self trust, trusting that

1423
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: you can handle whatever comes your way, whether you succeed,

1424
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: whether you fail, whether you bounce back, whether you bounce

1425
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 1: whatever it is, you will be okay. And in order

1426
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 1: to do that, we call that the state of big trust,

1427
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: which is recognizing these four attributes, reminding yourself that you

1428
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 1: can strengthen them, working on strengthening them, and also knowing

1429
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:47,560
Speaker 1: which one can you lean on when you might be

1430
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 1: weaker in the others. So that's and why this ties

1431
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 1: into agency is agency is such a big part of

1432
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:54,720
Speaker 1: this because if you do not believe that you can

1433
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: do the thing, if you don't believe that you have

1434
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: the skills or the ability to learn or capacity to adapt,

1435
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 1: you will not take that step. And so you will

1436
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 1: perpetually wait to feel ready, and then you're waiting and

1437
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 1: you will often occupy yourself or distract yourself with preparation

1438
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 1: and planning and all the things that we do that

1439
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 1: we think we're being productive by doing, but they're just

1440
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:19,640
Speaker 1: distracting us. It's procrastinating essentially. Yeah, we just need to

1441
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 1: take the action. So agency is recognizing, hey, I can

1442
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 1: do this. I have been here before, as in I've

1443
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:28,760
Speaker 1: been in unfamiliar situations and I was fine. How can

1444
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:33,760
Speaker 1: I draw on that I have handled challenges before? How

1445
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 1: can I bring those attributes there's this fantastic story that

1446
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:41,679
Speaker 1: comes from Polisher, legendary graphic designer. So in the nineteen

1447
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 1: it was nineteen ninety eight when Citybank was merging with

1448
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: Travelers Insurance, creating City Bank. They or City Group, they

1449
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 1: brought Polisher in to create the logo design. And so

1450
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 1: she's sitting at this meeting and they're all talking about

1451
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 1: what they want for this logo. She grabs a napkin

1452
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:01,599
Speaker 1: and she starts scribbling on this nap for a few seconds.

1453
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:04,800
Speaker 1: Finally she slides the napkin over and she says, here's

1454
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 1: your logo. The table was stunned. They said, how is

1455
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 1: it possible that you created a logo in a matter

1456
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,559
Speaker 1: of seconds. And she sat back and she said, it's

1457
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 1: done in a second. And thirty four years, it's done

1458
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 1: in a second, and every experience and everything that's in

1459
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 1: my head, this is what happens when we lack agency.

1460
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 1: I mean, Paul is showing us what it looks like

1461
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 1: to have a strong degree of agency. When we lack agency,

1462
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 1: often what happens is we start to undervalue the skills

1463
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 1: and the strength that we've developed, because now they become

1464
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 1: easy for us. They're no longer an effort for us,

1465
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 1: and so we forget the value that they can add.

1466
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 1: We've come to e quate and I think this is

1467
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 1: a byproduct of the society that we live in. We've

1468
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:49,519
Speaker 1: come to equate effort with value. I must put in

1469
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 1: effort in order to be delivering something of value, and

1470
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 1: if it comes too easily, then it's not a value.

1471
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 1: But that's because your expertise becomes second nature to you,

1472
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:01,640
Speaker 1: and then it becomes invisible to you. Not only that,

1473
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 1: it can become invisible to other people if you do

1474
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 1: something reasonably easily like this situation. How can you design

1475
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 1: this logo that they ended up paying one point five

1476
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 1: million dollars for? How can you do that in a

1477
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: few seconds. You have to spend months creating this design

1478
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 1: in order for us to pay you that money. No,

1479
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 1: we need to remind ourselves that we have an incredible

1480
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 1: track record of not only hard skills and tangible achievements,

1481
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:32,480
Speaker 1: but what we call essence qualities, the growth, mindset, the curiosity,

1482
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,559
Speaker 1: the persistence, the diligence, and these are things that you

1483
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 1: develop not only at work, but importantly in life. We

1484
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: forget when we're at work, and this used to happen

1485
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:42,680
Speaker 1: to me all the time, and it happens to so

1486
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 1: many of the people in our programs. They start a

1487
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:48,080
Speaker 1: new job and they yes, they may not be able

1488
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 1: to do the things that they need to do in

1489
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 1: the job, and then they get so down on themselves

1490
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:55,800
Speaker 1: forgetting that they have all these other skills and attributes

1491
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: that they can be applying to help them learn what

1492
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:00,719
Speaker 1: they need to learn. They can bring their growth mindset,

1493
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 1: the curiosity, their desire to learn new things, their ability

1494
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 1: to grasp things really quickly. They can bring all of

1495
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:09,240
Speaker 1: that with them, and as soon as you remind them

1496
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:12,719
Speaker 1: of that, they suddenly feel so much more at ease,

1497
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,760
Speaker 1: and it opens up their mind to learning quicker. So

1498
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 1: if anyone listening is in a position where you don't

1499
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 1: feel like you have everything that you need, everything on

1500
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 1: the job description, and you're magnifying your gaps, which is

1501
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 1: what the brain does, pause and write down. Firstly, write

1502
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 1: down everything that you are needing to do. Write everything

1503
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: on the job description for the role, whatever it might be.

1504
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:36,520
Speaker 1: In the middle column, what are all of the qualities

1505
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: that you have developed over the course of your life.

1506
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: And then in your third column, you're mapping your middle

1507
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 1: column to your first column. Right, So I'm going to

1508
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: bring my growth mindset for this one, this one and

1509
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 1: this one. I'm going to bring my diligence for here

1510
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 1: and here. I'm going to bring my ability to be

1511
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 1: really tenacious to this, that and that. And then suddenly

1512
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:54,800
Speaker 1: you've mapped out what you need to apply and how,

1513
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 1: and it's incredibly empowering and it boosts your self efficacy

1514
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 1: and your sen of agency.

1515
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:19,719
Speaker 2: You've reminded me because you just gave us the Latin

1516
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:23,479
Speaker 2: of confidence. I remember looking at the English Dictionary definition

1517
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 2: of confidence, and one of them was the acknowledgment and

1518
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:30,879
Speaker 2: appreciation of one's own abilities and skills.

1519
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 1: Beautiful like, that's actually the Beau definition.

1520
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:34,679
Speaker 2: So confidence isn't a feeling.

1521
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 1: It's not a feeling.

1522
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 2: It's not a feeling. It's not an attitude, it's not

1523
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:41,840
Speaker 2: a mindset. It's the acknowledgment and appreciation of what you've

1524
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 2: just said, of one's own skills and abilities and qualities.

1525
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 2: As you're saying, it's a bit more than that. When

1526
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:49,679
Speaker 2: I looked, I think it might even say qualities. Actually

1527
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 2: I could be wrong. I actually think it might actually

1528
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 2: say that. And now when I think about it, I'm

1529
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 2: like of course, it's almost like when you're halfway up

1530
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 2: a mountain, you have to look back down and say,

1531
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 2: I've walked up halfway.

1532
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 1: As opposed to just looking at how much is left

1533
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:04,639
Speaker 1: to go Oly.

1534
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 2: If you just look at the top and you go,

1535
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 2: oh god, that flag is so high, Oh my gosh,

1536
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 2: there's so many you know, there's such a steep climb.

1537
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 2: But if you look back and go, how did I

1538
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 2: get halfway up it? That didn't take that long, Okay,

1539
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:17,640
Speaker 2: I've done half Okay, god noo. And it's just so

1540
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 2: fascinating to me that we haven't been trained to do that,

1541
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 2: to actually acknowledge. And I'd say that to everyone when

1542
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:26,839
Speaker 2: I'm speaking on stage sometimes and I'm working with someone

1543
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,000
Speaker 2: in the audience who's having a really tough time with this.

1544
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:32,799
Speaker 2: Something I like to remind everyone is each and every

1545
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 2: one of you have been through something really difficult. Each

1546
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:41,679
Speaker 2: and every person has been through a extreme pain, whether

1547
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,240
Speaker 2: it was the loss of a loved one, the divorce

1548
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:50,439
Speaker 2: of family members, a break up, the loss of a dream.

1549
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 2: Everyone there is no human on the planet who hasn't

1550
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:57,840
Speaker 2: been through something that for them was exceptionally difficult. And

1551
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:01,840
Speaker 2: you're still here and you survived, and maybe you've even

1552
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:04,080
Speaker 2: fallen in love again and have an amazing job and

1553
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 2: have found kindness and grace within yourself. And if you

1554
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:12,200
Speaker 2: don't look at that as a monument and as a

1555
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:17,599
Speaker 2: marker of how far you've come, nothing will ever fill

1556
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,479
Speaker 2: that you have to There's nothing that will ever, ever,

1557
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 2: ever ever fill that void, because if you can't notice

1558
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 2: all the hard things you've done, you will continue to

1559
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 2: ignore all the hard things you're about to do and

1560
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:33,679
Speaker 2: not even feel you're capable of them. And I love

1561
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 2: that you're giving people a practical methodology in the book

1562
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:41,000
Speaker 2: and today in how to actually do that, And I

1563
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:43,599
Speaker 2: agree with you, before you apply for that job, do this. Yeah,

1564
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 2: Like this is more important than putting your resume together

1565
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:49,439
Speaker 2: and all of that, because before that job interview, do this.

1566
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:51,600
Speaker 1: I love how you've just touched on this idea of

1567
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:53,840
Speaker 1: the challenges we've been through, which leads us into the

1568
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 1: third pillar. But before we get there, I want to

1569
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:57,719
Speaker 1: come back to agency for a moment. So when people

1570
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 1: are applying for jobs, what's really valuable to know is

1571
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 1: that you don't have to have one hundred percent of

1572
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 1: what's on the job description, but you have to be

1573
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: able to demonstrate if you make it to an interview

1574
01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 1: that even though you don't have everything that's there, you

1575
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 1: have other transferable skills and attributes and qualities that you

1576
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 1: will apply to learn what you need to learn. So

1577
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:18,639
Speaker 1: let me share an example with you. When I worked

1578
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:21,639
Speaker 1: in banking, I applied for a very, very senior role

1579
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 1: that was probably three levels above where I was, and

1580
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:28,840
Speaker 1: I was completely underqualified for it. I already had another

1581
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 1: job that had been offered to me, so I wasn't

1582
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 1: this was kind of a side piece. I wasn't side piece, No,

1583
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 1: it was it was an opportunity that you know, I

1584
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:38,599
Speaker 1: would have taken if I had it, But it meant

1585
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:40,720
Speaker 1: I didn't have as much pressure, so I got to

1586
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:42,639
Speaker 1: try something. So I went in there for the first

1587
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 1: round interview and it went really well, and I went

1588
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 1: back for the second round interview, which was the final one,

1589
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: and when I came to sit down with the head

1590
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 1: of this entire area, I sat down and he said

1591
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 1: to me, look, Shade, I need to tell you that

1592
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:04,000
Speaker 1: we we're not entirely sure. And as he was finishing,

1593
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:07,120
Speaker 1: I jumped in and I said, it's very clear that

1594
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:10,599
Speaker 1: I don't have all the roles or all the track

1595
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 1: record of having done this before. Yes, I don't have

1596
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 1: experience in all of these things, but let me tell

1597
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 1: you what I do bring. I have been in roles

1598
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 1: in the past where I haven't known how to do anything,

1599
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 1: and I very quickly got up to speed. I asked

1600
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 1: what I needed to ask, I learned, I excelled, and

1601
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:28,200
Speaker 1: I was able to deliver In this example. I did this.

1602
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:30,599
Speaker 1: In that example, I did this. I see this as

1603
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:33,000
Speaker 1: being no different. Yes, I haven't been here, but I

1604
01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 1: will bring that. And in fact, I consider the fact

1605
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 1: that I don't have experience a bonus because I'm not

1606
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:40,320
Speaker 1: going to do things the way everyone else does. I'm

1607
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:43,000
Speaker 1: going to ask the curious questions where everyone else just

1608
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 1: takes it as a given. And do you know what

1609
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:48,000
Speaker 1: he said to me? He said, I had planned for

1610
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:49,400
Speaker 1: you to come in here today and me to tell

1611
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 1: you that it's not going to work out, but you've

1612
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:54,040
Speaker 1: completely changed my mind. I now have confidence in you.

1613
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,720
Speaker 1: We'd like to offer you the role. So then I

1614
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:58,280
Speaker 1: asked for some time to think about it, and I

1615
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:01,120
Speaker 1: realized that actually the other one was better suited to me.

1616
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 1: But it was a lesson in how you shouldn't take

1617
01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:06,799
Speaker 1: yourself out of the game before the game begins.

1618
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:08,519
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, go.

1619
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:11,120
Speaker 1: In there with confidence acknowledge if you don't know how

1620
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:12,760
Speaker 1: to do The worst thing is to say no, I've

1621
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:14,599
Speaker 1: done it before and then get caught out. Don't lie,

1622
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:19,000
Speaker 1: but have the confidence, the conviction in the fact that hey,

1623
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:21,320
Speaker 1: you have a lot of things you've done before. You

1624
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:23,720
Speaker 1: can bring all of that right now, and in fact,

1625
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 1: maybe it gives you an edge. And then you want

1626
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,559
Speaker 1: to tell them how you would spend your first ninety days.

1627
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: So give them your ninety day roadmap, so you would

1628
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:32,719
Speaker 1: go in there and say, okay, So my first thirty

1629
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:34,560
Speaker 1: days is going to be spent getting a lay of

1630
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,720
Speaker 1: the land, to understand how people do things, to understand

1631
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 1: the culture, and to really have more of an observational role.

1632
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:44,840
Speaker 1: The second thirty days is going to be me determining

1633
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 1: what are the gaps that I need to fill the quickest.

1634
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:50,800
Speaker 1: I will be taking learning programs, I'll be doing training internally,

1635
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:53,599
Speaker 1: maybe shadowing some people. Now, when we get to our

1636
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:56,720
Speaker 1: final thirty days in that ninety day period, that's when

1637
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:00,400
Speaker 1: I'm implementing. That's when I'm developing a strategy for what

1638
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:02,679
Speaker 1: my next twelve months is going to look like that's

1639
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:04,599
Speaker 1: how I'm going to ensure when I start this role,

1640
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:07,280
Speaker 1: I'll be able to hit the ground running. And you

1641
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 1: just say it with so much clarity and conviction that

1642
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:11,920
Speaker 1: they will be blown away.

1643
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's yeah, And especially if you follow through,

1644
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 2: it's brilliant because women, when they see a resume, underestimate

1645
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:21,920
Speaker 2: what they can do. Men overestimate what they can do.

1646
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 2: And I feel that a lot of those women won't

1647
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:26,840
Speaker 2: apply for a job because they can do seven out

1648
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,760
Speaker 2: of the ten times, whereas the research shows a man

1649
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:31,400
Speaker 2: will apply even if he can do only four or

1650
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 2: five out of the ten things. As a woman in

1651
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 2: the example that you've just given as well for your

1652
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 2: own life, like, what can women do to not bow

1653
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 2: out before the race?

1654
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:46,719
Speaker 1: Is to not bow out before the race, essentially, don't

1655
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:50,120
Speaker 1: take yourself out back yourself. And something that's really valuable

1656
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 1: here is what we also know when we've looked at

1657
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:59,040
Speaker 1: neuroscience studies is that women tend to evaluate rejection harder

1658
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:02,040
Speaker 1: than men, in the sense that we deem it to

1659
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 1: be much worse than for example, a man may, so

1660
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 1: we have a tendency to really blow it out of proportion,

1661
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 1: and that's why we often don't want to try something

1662
01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:13,000
Speaker 1: if we don't think we're going to succeed. We're keeping

1663
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:15,599
Speaker 1: ourselves safe again at the function of the brain. So

1664
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:17,679
Speaker 1: if you can say to yourself, I'm not taking myself

1665
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:19,800
Speaker 1: out of this race, I'll let them take me out

1666
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:21,640
Speaker 1: if they don't think I'm suited, but I'm going to

1667
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 1: put my best foot forward. I'm also going to remind

1668
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:26,880
Speaker 1: myself that even if it doesn't work out, that is

1669
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:28,800
Speaker 1: not a verdict on me. I'm not going to make

1670
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:31,200
Speaker 1: that mean something about me. I'm just going to learn

1671
01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:34,080
Speaker 1: and do better next time. When you can frame it

1672
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:37,719
Speaker 1: that way and also start to get more comfortable with rejection.

1673
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 1: So there's this idea of rejection therapy. Now, the principle

1674
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 1: behind it is that if you fear something, you're going

1675
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 1: to avoid something. If you fear a spider, j you're

1676
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:48,680
Speaker 1: not going to go near spiders. But if you want

1677
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:50,800
Speaker 1: to get over that phobia, what we do is the

1678
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:54,080
Speaker 1: process of systematic desensitization, where first I'd show you a

1679
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:57,519
Speaker 1: picture on my phone of a spider, then next I'd

1680
01:22:57,520 --> 01:22:59,880
Speaker 1: show you a video, Then next I'd have a spy

1681
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:01,519
Speaker 1: in a cage on the other side of the room.

1682
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 1: Then it would come closer, then it would be right

1683
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 1: in front of you. Then it wouldn't be in the cage.

1684
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:08,600
Speaker 1: Then it would be on your hand, and you're systematically

1685
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:10,400
Speaker 1: I mean, this wouldn't all happen in a day, This

1686
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:13,759
Speaker 1: would be over a number of sessions. But you're essentially

1687
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:17,240
Speaker 1: telling your brain, hey, I can feel that fear, but

1688
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:21,200
Speaker 1: I'm safe. And what happens is you desensitize yourself to

1689
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:23,479
Speaker 1: that fear, and so by the time you've got the

1690
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,799
Speaker 1: spider on your hand, you're not having that massive emotional

1691
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:30,120
Speaker 1: reaction anymore. Same principle applies when it comes to things

1692
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:33,200
Speaker 1: like rejection. If you can put yourself in low stakes

1693
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 1: rejections where you might apply for a bunch of roles,

1694
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 1: knowing that you'll get rejected, great, do it. And then

1695
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 1: when you get rejected, you ask yourself, Okay, am I

1696
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:44,880
Speaker 1: making this mean something about myself? No, fantastic, it doesn't

1697
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:47,200
Speaker 1: mean anything about me. I'm going to try again next time.

1698
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:49,240
Speaker 1: The more you do this, the more you learn that

1699
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 1: it's okay. You are still you, You still have value,

1700
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:54,600
Speaker 1: you can still accept yourself, you still have agency, and

1701
01:23:54,640 --> 01:23:56,719
Speaker 1: you can apply what you need to apply to achieve

1702
01:23:56,720 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 1: what you need to achieve. So that's one process to

1703
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 1: think about. So any women who were listening, or even

1704
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 1: men who hold back, stop holding back, take the step.

1705
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 1: What's the worst that could happen?

1706
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 2: Did you see any other differences between men and women

1707
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:12,000
Speaker 2: in your research?

1708
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:14,439
Speaker 1: So I saw really clear differences when I used to

1709
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:17,519
Speaker 1: coach men and women. And this is actually even before

1710
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:19,720
Speaker 1: I was officially coaching. We don't even coach anymore. We

1711
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:21,639
Speaker 1: don't do one to one, we do group sessions. Now

1712
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:23,880
Speaker 1: will work with companies. But when I coached, and I

1713
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:26,599
Speaker 1: was actually coaching, when I was still working in banking,

1714
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 1: so I would have people reach out to me colleagues,

1715
01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:33,320
Speaker 1: co workers, peers, leaders and asked me to coach them.

1716
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 1: I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't

1717
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:36,160
Speaker 1: know what it meant to be a coach. I had

1718
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:40,519
Speaker 1: no credentials, nothing, But I loved to help, so I

1719
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 1: started helping as much as I could. And what I

1720
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:46,160
Speaker 1: discovered is that the women who would reach out to

1721
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:48,880
Speaker 1: me would do so because they had self doubt. They

1722
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:51,439
Speaker 1: were holding themselves back. They wanted to ask for a raise,

1723
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:53,840
Speaker 1: and they didn't have the courage to do so the

1724
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 1: men who reached out to me for coaching wanted to excel,

1725
01:24:57,439 --> 01:24:59,760
Speaker 1: they wanted to perform better, they wanted to be more productive,

1726
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:02,800
Speaker 1: they wanted to start a side business. And it was

1727
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 1: really really clear that what they were seeking helpful was very,

1728
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 1: very different. It's not that these men didn't have self doubt,

1729
01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:12,080
Speaker 1: but they see in that environment. It was a small

1730
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 1: sample and anecdotal entirely, but it seemed like they just

1731
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 1: wanted to get ahead and know how they could move faster,

1732
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:21,840
Speaker 1: whereas these women felt like they were stuck and they

1733
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:25,360
Speaker 1: needed to get unstuck. So I found that really fascinating.

1734
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:28,280
Speaker 1: I think part of it is that men typically don't

1735
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:30,840
Speaker 1: like to share the doubt that they're experiencing. They see

1736
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:33,479
Speaker 1: it as a weakness, whereas women we are just much

1737
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,000
Speaker 1: more in tune with that, we acknowledge it, we share

1738
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 1: it with communicative and then also potentially there's this element

1739
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:44,600
Speaker 1: around sharing at work. So this is moving slightly in

1740
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:47,080
Speaker 1: a different space, but still really valuable for anyone listening.

1741
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:51,080
Speaker 1: A lot of women are branded as being emotional when

1742
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:54,640
Speaker 1: they're insecure, when they have, you know, they feel a

1743
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:58,560
Speaker 1: strong emotion in a meeting or something like this, Interestingly,

1744
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:01,439
Speaker 1: a lot of men have very strong emotional reactions to things,

1745
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 1: but it's more anger or frustrated or stress. They don't

1746
01:26:04,200 --> 01:26:07,479
Speaker 1: get labeled as emotional. So what some research has found is,

1747
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,760
Speaker 1: if you feel like you're being labeled as emotional because

1748
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 1: maybe you've got a lot of self doubt and the

1749
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:16,120
Speaker 1: insecurities coming out in that moment, say out loud and

1750
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:21,479
Speaker 1: to yourself, I'm just really passionate about this. I'm acting

1751
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 1: this way because I'm so committed to seeing this through,

1752
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:26,200
Speaker 1: or I'm so committed to doing a good job. By

1753
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:31,160
Speaker 1: shifting from emotional to passion or commitment, it fundamentally changes

1754
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 1: how people see you and how you see yourself. And

1755
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:36,519
Speaker 1: so that's just a little tweak, a little hack that

1756
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 1: comes from the science around helping to Again, it's almost

1757
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:41,759
Speaker 1: like this labeling, you're not emotional, you are just passionate,

1758
01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:44,639
Speaker 1: you really care deeply about this thing. And then again

1759
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:46,880
Speaker 1: it allows you because you're shifting your attention to then

1760
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:49,840
Speaker 1: focus on, Okay, what am I doing next? So, Jay,

1761
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 1: now I think we should go into the third pillar.

1762
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:53,320
Speaker 1: Are you ready to dive through?

1763
01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:53,679
Speaker 2: Yes?

1764
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:56,880
Speaker 1: So the third pillar is what we call actually, before

1765
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 1: I tell you the third pillar, I'm gonna share Bruno's

1766
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:02,479
Speaker 1: story with you. So Bruno was an entrepreneur who reached

1767
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:05,920
Speaker 1: out for help. He was running a business, it was

1768
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:09,479
Speaker 1: doing really well, and yet he was one of these

1769
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:13,320
Speaker 1: people who would always find a problem in every solution.

1770
01:27:14,320 --> 01:27:17,120
Speaker 1: He would always focus on what was wrong and it

1771
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:19,960
Speaker 1: was always everyone else's fault. So the very first time

1772
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,720
Speaker 1: that we met, he walked in, he was rushing, he

1773
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:25,439
Speaker 1: was complaining about the weather and the traffic and the

1774
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:27,200
Speaker 1: fact that it was so hot in the room. And

1775
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 1: he spoke for about five minutes, ranting. We hadn't even

1776
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:34,519
Speaker 1: shook hands or sat down. He was stuck in this

1777
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:37,960
Speaker 1: litany of grievances. Finally we sat down, we started speaking,

1778
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:40,040
Speaker 1: and what I discovered is that Bruno has a number

1779
01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:44,360
Speaker 1: of common patterns. He was an endless complainer, chronic complaining

1780
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 1: about everything. Not only that, he was very resentful to

1781
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:50,759
Speaker 1: other people. He felt like everyone else had an easier

1782
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:53,639
Speaker 1: life than he did. Other people's business success was easier,

1783
01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:55,840
Speaker 1: that he felt like he was constantly having to work harder.

1784
01:27:56,600 --> 01:28:02,799
Speaker 1: The third pattern was blame. Is constantly blaming other people

1785
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 1: for issues that he was responsible for. He was never

1786
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 1: willing to take ownership. And the fourth pattern is he

1787
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:13,640
Speaker 1: would keep reliving past hurts, so past times that he

1788
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:16,280
Speaker 1: had been hurt by somebody, someone had double crossed him,

1789
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:20,080
Speaker 1: someone had treated him poorly. He kept sharing that story. Now, initially,

1790
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:23,040
Speaker 1: when you're having a conversation with someone you listen to

1791
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:25,519
Speaker 1: these stories. Of course you have empathy. By the tenth

1792
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:27,920
Speaker 1: time they're telling you this story, within a few months,

1793
01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 1: you realize they're stuck in a cycle that is keeping

1794
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 1: them stuck when it comes to complaining. And I'll share

1795
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:35,479
Speaker 1: what the attribute is in a moment. But when it

1796
01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:38,080
Speaker 1: comes to complaining, we don't realize. This is a sign

1797
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:41,640
Speaker 1: of a lack of self trust because we lack the

1798
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:44,439
Speaker 1: trust that we have the ability to do something about

1799
01:28:44,479 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 1: the situation. So what do we do? Focus on what

1800
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:51,400
Speaker 1: we cannot control and magnify it and complain about it,

1801
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:54,800
Speaker 1: because it's easier to complain than to take ownership and

1802
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,479
Speaker 1: do something. When we keep reliving past hurts, things that

1803
01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:00,679
Speaker 1: have happened to us in the past, we're telling what's

1804
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:05,840
Speaker 1: called a contamination story. Jay, you mentioned earlier how every

1805
01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:10,479
Speaker 1: single person has lived through hardship, every single person, and

1806
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:13,760
Speaker 1: depending on the story that they tell themselves about that hardship.

1807
01:29:14,160 --> 01:29:16,880
Speaker 1: It determines how they feel about that hardship, whether they

1808
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,599
Speaker 1: internalize that hardship and make it mean something about them,

1809
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 1: and then whether they feel empowered in their lives or

1810
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:26,880
Speaker 1: the victims. And I'll come back to that story in

1811
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:30,280
Speaker 1: a moment, or the example of the hardships, because I

1812
01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 1: do have a really great case study for that. But

1813
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 1: coming back to Bruno, what we discovered is that he

1814
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:38,800
Speaker 1: had a very low level of what we call autonomy.

1815
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:41,599
Speaker 1: He felt like he didn't have the freedom to make choices.

1816
01:29:42,160 --> 01:29:44,400
Speaker 1: He felt like he didn't have the ability to influence

1817
01:29:45,240 --> 01:29:48,679
Speaker 1: his outcomes, and that's why he fixated on everything outside

1818
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:51,639
Speaker 1: of his control. This relates to what's called a locus

1819
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:54,880
Speaker 1: of control. So Jay, you have a locus. I have

1820
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:57,360
Speaker 1: a locus. Everyone listening will have a locus of control,

1821
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 1: which comes from the Latin word location, which means where

1822
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:04,160
Speaker 1: do you place the control in your life? Do you

1823
01:30:04,280 --> 01:30:06,800
Speaker 1: believe that you can control things? And I'm not talking

1824
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:09,120
Speaker 1: about control everything, because we know a lot of life

1825
01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:11,519
Speaker 1: is uncontrollable, but do you believe that you have some

1826
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 1: degree of influence or that life is happening to you

1827
01:30:14,479 --> 01:30:18,240
Speaker 1: because of external forces or other people, or society or

1828
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:22,240
Speaker 1: the government. If you have an external focus, external locus,

1829
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 1: you will focus on things outside of your control. What

1830
01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:28,559
Speaker 1: other people think, what other people do, what other people say,

1831
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:32,040
Speaker 1: what the government is doing, what the media is doing,

1832
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:33,840
Speaker 1: what your neighbor is doing, what your brother is doing,

1833
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:36,719
Speaker 1: the future of the past, things that you cannot control.

1834
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:39,760
Speaker 1: And then how do you feel when you're focusing on

1835
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:44,080
Speaker 1: those things? You feel powerless? Why? Because you are powerless.

1836
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:47,559
Speaker 1: When you have an internal locus, you acknowledge that you

1837
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:50,559
Speaker 1: can influence the outcome, you can shape your path. Again,

1838
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 1: not everything is controllable, but you focus on what you

1839
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:58,240
Speaker 1: do have control over your thoughts, your feelings, your interpretations,

1840
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 1: your actions. That is it. And when you focus on

1841
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:05,920
Speaker 1: those things, guess what, you remarkably feel more powerful because

1842
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 1: you're focusing on things you can do. We also know

1843
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 1: when people get stuck. So where Bruno was when he

1844
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:14,600
Speaker 1: was in that external locus, we see a lot of

1845
01:31:15,240 --> 01:31:18,320
Speaker 1: activity in the emotion centers of the brain, very little

1846
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:21,240
Speaker 1: activity in the prefrontal regions, which is what we need

1847
01:31:21,439 --> 01:31:26,280
Speaker 1: for rationality and solutions and logical thinking. So, if you

1848
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:30,639
Speaker 1: ever find yourself feeling like you're complaining, feeling like a victim,

1849
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:33,920
Speaker 1: and I'm not talking about real victims. I'm talking about

1850
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 1: those who victimize themselves. If anyone listening ever feels that,

1851
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:40,880
Speaker 1: and the reality is it can happen, especially when unfair

1852
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 1: things happen in your life. You need to tell yourself, okay,

1853
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:48,120
Speaker 1: instead of why me, what now?

1854
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 2: What?

1855
01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:51,680
Speaker 1: Now? It's happened. I can't do anything about it. I'm

1856
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:53,040
Speaker 1: not going to dwell on it. What am I going

1857
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:55,479
Speaker 1: to do about it? And we have this great little

1858
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:57,720
Speaker 1: exercise we love to share with people. It's called the

1859
01:31:58,240 --> 01:32:01,280
Speaker 1: I could and that I will list So when people

1860
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 1: get to this state, if we encourage them to think

1861
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 1: about what you will do next, often what happens is

1862
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:08,720
Speaker 1: that they start to think about all the things that

1863
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:12,400
Speaker 1: they should have done or that they should do. And

1864
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:16,080
Speaker 1: the language of should is very disempowering. It does one

1865
01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:17,640
Speaker 1: or two things that either makes us feel like we're

1866
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:20,800
Speaker 1: falling short or that we're being compelled against our will.

1867
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:23,679
Speaker 1: And we don't like being told what to do. It's

1868
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:26,840
Speaker 1: called reactants. And when we hear a should, often it's

1869
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:28,360
Speaker 1: like a part of us is telling us what to do,

1870
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:30,200
Speaker 1: and we don't like it. We resist it, so we

1871
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:32,320
Speaker 1: avoid the words should. So when we move to coulds,

1872
01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 1: research has found that when you use the word could

1873
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:38,360
Speaker 1: instead of should, it opens up divergent thinking.

1874
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:40,759
Speaker 2: It's remarkable, it's a remark, it's a word.

1875
01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:43,280
Speaker 1: Sometimes when I look at some of this research, I think,

1876
01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:47,439
Speaker 1: how is something this simple so incredibly powerful? And it's

1877
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:51,320
Speaker 1: because words create worlds inside us and outside of us.

1878
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,360
Speaker 1: So you shift to could. Grab a piece of paper

1879
01:32:54,360 --> 01:32:56,960
Speaker 1: and you split it into two two columns. On the left,

1880
01:32:56,960 --> 01:32:59,479
Speaker 1: you right your I could list. What are all the

1881
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:02,560
Speaker 1: things that you you could do in the current circumstances,

1882
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:05,280
Speaker 1: whether you've just been laid off from your job, whether

1883
01:33:05,320 --> 01:33:08,680
Speaker 1: your business failed, whether your relationship has broken down. What

1884
01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:11,120
Speaker 1: are all the things you could do right now that

1885
01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 1: allows you to feel a sense of okay, there are opportunities,

1886
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:17,800
Speaker 1: there are possibilities. Here. You're also directing your attention, which

1887
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:23,040
Speaker 1: reduces that emotion activation re engages your prefrontal regions. Next step,

1888
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:26,200
Speaker 1: what will you do? Circle three things from your could

1889
01:33:26,280 --> 01:33:28,439
Speaker 1: do list and write them in your will do list,

1890
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:31,840
Speaker 1: and you write I will bang bang bang, and then

1891
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:36,479
Speaker 1: you take action. You're hijacking that ruminatative part of your

1892
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:39,720
Speaker 1: brain and gearing yourself towards action, reminding yourself that no

1893
01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:42,280
Speaker 1: matter how bad things are, you always have a choice,

1894
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:45,280
Speaker 1: and you're choosing to take a step forward. So we

1895
01:33:45,320 --> 01:33:46,920
Speaker 1: shared all of this with Bruno and we had to

1896
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:49,640
Speaker 1: go through this long process. But for Bruno, there was

1897
01:33:49,640 --> 01:33:51,920
Speaker 1: something else that was really affecting him, and it was

1898
01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:55,679
Speaker 1: this contamination story he was telling. He kept telling people

1899
01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:59,120
Speaker 1: and himself, my life is so difficult. It's always been

1900
01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:02,640
Speaker 1: so difficult. It's always going to be so difficult, and

1901
01:34:02,680 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 1: it took a lot of time to shake that. We

1902
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:06,040
Speaker 1: worked him through a process which I'll share in just

1903
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:08,880
Speaker 1: a moment, but I want to share a story that

1904
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:11,160
Speaker 1: we shared with Bruno and he loved it, and so

1905
01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:14,400
Speaker 1: I think all the listeners will appreciate this. So this

1906
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:16,840
Speaker 1: is in the When was It Okay? So there's a

1907
01:34:16,920 --> 01:34:20,519
Speaker 1: nineteen year old boy. He's a drummer and he loves drumming.

1908
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:22,040
Speaker 1: This is a true story, by the way, I'm not

1909
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:24,920
Speaker 1: making this up. He absolutely loves drumming and he's playing

1910
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 1: with his band for two years. They are working together,

1911
01:34:27,640 --> 01:34:31,160
Speaker 1: they're refining, they're so excited and they feel like they're

1912
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:35,920
Speaker 1: just on the brink of something really phenomenal happening. It's

1913
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:37,960
Speaker 1: at that moment that his manager calls him into the

1914
01:34:37,960 --> 01:34:40,679
Speaker 1: office and he sits down. He's not really sure why

1915
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:44,479
Speaker 1: he's there, and they say to him, look, Peter, we're

1916
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:47,920
Speaker 1: letting you go. We're replacing you with a different drummer.

1917
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 1: And he wasn't even really given an explanation. Just like that,

1918
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:55,240
Speaker 1: his dreams of working with this band and taking them

1919
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:58,120
Speaker 1: to stardom had just crumbled, and he didn't even understand why.

1920
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:00,880
Speaker 1: And they said, we're replacing with a drummer by the

1921
01:35:00,960 --> 01:35:06,320
Speaker 1: name of Ringo. This band was the Beatles, right before

1922
01:35:06,479 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 1: their global megastardom. They replace their drummer. Now, Peter Best

1923
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:16,400
Speaker 1: goes through a depression. He starts spiraling, he becomes resentful,

1924
01:35:16,720 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 1: he becomes suicidal. He's loading bread in the back of

1925
01:35:21,439 --> 01:35:23,880
Speaker 1: a delivery van while he's seeing the band that he

1926
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:27,960
Speaker 1: worked with for two years on a global tour becoming icons.

1927
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:33,160
Speaker 1: But today he tells a different story. He says, everything

1928
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:35,280
Speaker 1: I've been through, happy and sad, good and bad, have

1929
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:37,880
Speaker 1: made me who I am today. I wouldn't change any

1930
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:41,280
Speaker 1: of it. He acknowledges that life would have been very different,

1931
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:44,280
Speaker 1: but he chooses to tell a story that is centered

1932
01:35:44,320 --> 01:35:47,679
Speaker 1: around ownership. And he chooses to focus on what he has,

1933
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:52,080
Speaker 1: his beautiful wife, his wonderful kids, his grandchildren, and he

1934
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:54,320
Speaker 1: even says, he goes, if you dwell on all the

1935
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:56,400
Speaker 1: bad things in your life, and if you have a

1936
01:35:56,439 --> 01:35:59,719
Speaker 1: regret or resentment, you will become a twisted and bitter

1937
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:02,840
Speaker 1: old get which is a very English thing to say,

1938
01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:06,360
Speaker 1: but it's so true. And he embodies this idea of

1939
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:10,719
Speaker 1: the stories that we tell. So what he was referring

1940
01:36:10,720 --> 01:36:13,120
Speaker 1: to here is what we call, or what psychologists and

1941
01:36:13,160 --> 01:36:18,000
Speaker 1: researchers call, a redemptive story. Dan McAdams has researched this

1942
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:20,200
Speaker 1: for forty years and he's found there are essentially two

1943
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:23,519
Speaker 1: stories that we tell. A redemptive story is one where

1944
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:26,960
Speaker 1: bad things happened and we redeemed ourselves, We learned something,

1945
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:30,840
Speaker 1: we grew stronger, we accepted it. A contamination story is

1946
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:34,280
Speaker 1: where that story has become contaminated in your self identity,

1947
01:36:34,479 --> 01:36:37,760
Speaker 1: your self image. You carry those scars with you everywhere,

1948
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:41,240
Speaker 1: and then you keep seeing it replayed because remember how

1949
01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:44,720
Speaker 1: you're showing up. The scars that you're carrying shape your expectation,

1950
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:48,280
Speaker 1: which then influences what you see through expectation.

1951
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:49,519
Speaker 2: Bias huge that's huge.

1952
01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:51,840
Speaker 1: So that's another and a lot of people say, well,

1953
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:53,960
Speaker 1: how is this self doubt? And I love that this

1954
01:36:54,040 --> 01:36:56,320
Speaker 1: is considered part of your self image because if you

1955
01:36:56,400 --> 01:37:00,000
Speaker 1: do not believe or trust that you have the ability

1956
01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:04,280
Speaker 1: to shape your outcomes or redefine your story, you're going

1957
01:37:04,280 --> 01:37:07,520
Speaker 1: to struggle. And that's why this third pillar is autonomy.

1958
01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 2: There's something you said today that really struck me. I

1959
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:18,240
Speaker 2: was saying that everyone's been through hard things, and the

1960
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:21,920
Speaker 2: way you flip that really powerfully, and it was subtle,

1961
01:37:22,080 --> 01:37:25,040
Speaker 2: was that but it's how you feel about how you

1962
01:37:25,160 --> 01:37:29,800
Speaker 2: got through those hard things that define how they impact you.

1963
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:34,320
Speaker 2: And that is so true and powerful. Like that really

1964
01:37:34,360 --> 01:37:36,519
Speaker 2: really hit me and resonated with me. I don't think

1965
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:40,720
Speaker 2: I've heard it being said like that before, because, like

1966
01:37:40,760 --> 01:37:43,240
Speaker 2: you said, you talked about your parents' divorce, and even

1967
01:37:43,240 --> 01:37:45,800
Speaker 2: if it was even though it was amicable and you

1968
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:49,439
Speaker 2: had a loving family, your take was what else could

1969
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:52,000
Speaker 2: I have done? So even though you've been through a

1970
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:55,160
Speaker 2: hard thing, you see it as your fault in some way,

1971
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:58,880
Speaker 2: or you see it as something you could have done better,

1972
01:37:59,320 --> 01:38:01,960
Speaker 2: and therefore thinking about that hard thing and getting through

1973
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:04,719
Speaker 2: it doesn't make you feel stronger it makes you feel

1974
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:08,479
Speaker 2: weak and insignificant and whatever else you would use to

1975
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:12,240
Speaker 2: describe yourself, because your memory of it and your story

1976
01:38:12,280 --> 01:38:15,840
Speaker 2: of it is I failed. Yes, your story of it isn't.

1977
01:38:15,880 --> 01:38:17,960
Speaker 2: I'm still alive and it's still survived, and I'm still good.

1978
01:38:17,960 --> 01:38:21,360
Speaker 2: And that is magnificent as a as a case study,

1979
01:38:21,400 --> 01:38:26,960
Speaker 2: because that's why people's difficult times don't inspire them, because

1980
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:30,479
Speaker 2: their difficult times remind them that they're a failure. Yes,

1981
01:38:30,680 --> 01:38:32,920
Speaker 2: because that's the story that they built around. Yes.

1982
01:38:33,479 --> 01:38:36,240
Speaker 1: And we also know that when you're remembering a memory,

1983
01:38:37,120 --> 01:38:39,880
Speaker 1: you're not actually remembering the first thing, the first time

1984
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:43,160
Speaker 1: that it happened. Yeah, you're remembering the last memory you

1985
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:45,479
Speaker 1: had of it. Yes, And this is why actually memory

1986
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:48,320
Speaker 1: is so fallible. They've done some studies where they've looked

1987
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:52,160
Speaker 1: at suggestion and they've had people witness a crime and

1988
01:38:52,200 --> 01:38:54,800
Speaker 1: then they get asked to report on the crime. And

1989
01:38:54,920 --> 01:38:56,719
Speaker 1: let's say there was a yellow car that was speeding

1990
01:38:56,760 --> 01:39:01,000
Speaker 1: by the person asking questions would say how fast do

1991
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:04,120
Speaker 1: you think the red car was going? And because they're

1992
01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:06,679
Speaker 1: not thinking about the color of the car, they'll report

1993
01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:09,200
Speaker 1: a speed and then the next time they ask them,

1994
01:39:09,200 --> 01:39:10,639
Speaker 1: that person will say yeah, it was a red car.

1995
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:11,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1996
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:14,080
Speaker 1: And so we need to be so mindful every time

1997
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:20,240
Speaker 1: we relive something. And this is why overthinking, resentment, complaining

1998
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:24,559
Speaker 1: is so dangerous. We're re wiring this into our system

1999
01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:27,360
Speaker 1: and also just remembering the last time we remembered it.

2000
01:39:27,560 --> 01:39:29,880
Speaker 1: But you know what's beautiful about that. It means that

2001
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:33,000
Speaker 1: you can actually change the meaning you're applying to these events,

2002
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:36,280
Speaker 1: and then when you start remembering the new meaning, you

2003
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:40,720
Speaker 1: start to fundamentally change the memory. You mentioned something that

2004
01:39:41,200 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 1: I love sharing about, which is the bad experiences happened

2005
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:49,759
Speaker 1: to us, the unfairness, the colossal pressure that we face,

2006
01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:52,519
Speaker 1: the whatever it is, the heartbreak, the early death, the

2007
01:39:52,640 --> 01:39:56,840
Speaker 1: challenges at work, business failure. A lot of these things

2008
01:39:57,479 --> 01:40:00,880
Speaker 1: may lead to PTSD. If something is traumatic enough, it

2009
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:02,519
Speaker 1: will lead to PTSD. And a lot of people in

2010
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:06,920
Speaker 1: their minds think traumatic experience PTSD. But did you know

2011
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:09,360
Speaker 1: that there's quite a large number of people who never

2012
01:40:09,439 --> 01:40:14,280
Speaker 1: experience PTSD. They experience post traumatic growth. I do not

2013
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:15,200
Speaker 1: talk about this enough.

2014
01:40:15,200 --> 01:40:15,960
Speaker 2: I've never heard of it.

2015
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:17,840
Speaker 1: I've never heard of it either until I came across

2016
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:20,080
Speaker 1: the research. There was a really large number of people

2017
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:24,719
Speaker 1: who don't go through the traumatic negative experience, They experience

2018
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:28,080
Speaker 1: growth from that traumatic experience, and then when they've had

2019
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:30,880
Speaker 1: a look at what is causing the growth, there's one

2020
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:36,040
Speaker 1: quality that they have curiosity. They don't just accept the

2021
01:40:36,080 --> 01:40:38,400
Speaker 1: situation for what it was and then internalize it for

2022
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:42,000
Speaker 1: what it was. They ask questions about the situation. Could

2023
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:44,320
Speaker 1: I have changed this? What could I have done differently?

2024
01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:46,880
Speaker 1: How did I feel when that was happening? What if

2025
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:48,840
Speaker 1: I were to approach it this way? They go through

2026
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:52,680
Speaker 1: almost a process of self inquiry, almost like coaching themselves

2027
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:56,200
Speaker 1: to try and determine, Okay, what actually happened and what

2028
01:40:56,280 --> 01:40:59,840
Speaker 1: was my function? And can I change my interpretation? And

2029
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:03,080
Speaker 1: they use it to get better rather than become bitter.

2030
01:41:04,160 --> 01:41:07,240
Speaker 1: And that is a powerful reminder to us that we

2031
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:09,040
Speaker 1: can reclaim that autonomy. So how do we do it?

2032
01:41:09,080 --> 01:41:11,559
Speaker 1: How do we change these stories? It's a process called

2033
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:16,240
Speaker 1: narrative reidentification. It comes from narrative therapy. It's been around

2034
01:41:16,240 --> 01:41:18,879
Speaker 1: for decades and it's been proven to be highly highly effective.

2035
01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:21,800
Speaker 1: It just takes time. Essentially, what you want to do

2036
01:41:21,880 --> 01:41:24,439
Speaker 1: is determine what is the story you're telling yourself. So

2037
01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:28,080
Speaker 1: in Bruno's case, his story was that my life is

2038
01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:30,759
Speaker 1: more difficult than everyone else's. And when we got deeper,

2039
01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:34,400
Speaker 1: it's because when he was growing up, he had an

2040
01:41:34,400 --> 01:41:37,960
Speaker 1: older sister who was the golden child, did everything right,

2041
01:41:38,160 --> 01:41:41,160
Speaker 1: achieved amazing things. He was constantly compared to her, and

2042
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:46,240
Speaker 1: he wasn't given freedom to make decisions because his parents

2043
01:41:46,240 --> 01:41:48,479
Speaker 1: had assumed that he's going to mess up. They told

2044
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:49,840
Speaker 1: him this is what you do. This is because you're

2045
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:51,920
Speaker 1: never going to be like her, so we will create

2046
01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:54,280
Speaker 1: your path for you. So he never had a sense

2047
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:57,000
Speaker 1: of autonomy, which led him to constantly focus on things

2048
01:41:57,000 --> 01:41:59,160
Speaker 1: outside of his control because he had nothing that he

2049
01:41:59,200 --> 01:42:02,240
Speaker 1: felt he could control. So we had to work through

2050
01:42:02,240 --> 01:42:05,439
Speaker 1: that process and this was really confronting for him because

2051
01:42:05,479 --> 01:42:07,600
Speaker 1: he naturally would resist, but we worked through it and

2052
01:42:07,680 --> 01:42:10,240
Speaker 1: he was open to it. Then the next step is, okay, Bruno,

2053
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:13,599
Speaker 1: is that story serving you? Genuinely? Is it serving you?

2054
01:42:14,120 --> 01:42:16,320
Speaker 1: And it took him a while to acknowledge that no,

2055
01:42:16,640 --> 01:42:19,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't. He doesn't want to feel that way. So

2056
01:42:19,720 --> 01:42:22,120
Speaker 1: then the next step is, okay, how would you rewrite

2057
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:25,479
Speaker 1: this story in a way that served you? What would

2058
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:27,760
Speaker 1: you tell someone else? Let's go through that process, so

2059
01:42:27,800 --> 01:42:31,719
Speaker 1: you essentially rewrite your story focusing on what you learned,

2060
01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:35,840
Speaker 1: how you grew, and how you became stronger using that curiosity.

2061
01:42:36,680 --> 01:42:38,720
Speaker 1: And this took a little while for him to get

2062
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:40,800
Speaker 1: comfortable with that and work through it. But then every

2063
01:42:40,800 --> 01:42:42,639
Speaker 1: time I would ask him, tell me your story again,

2064
01:42:42,920 --> 01:42:45,000
Speaker 1: tell me again, focus on what you learned. And it

2065
01:42:45,080 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 1: was remarkable seeing how he changed every part of him,

2066
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:51,360
Speaker 1: changed the way he would turn up, the way he

2067
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:53,840
Speaker 1: initially would spend five minutes complaining at the beginning of

2068
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:56,920
Speaker 1: a session to suddenly be smiling, sitting down, ready to

2069
01:42:56,960 --> 01:42:59,760
Speaker 1: get going. And this is because when you re edit

2070
01:42:59,800 --> 01:43:02,120
Speaker 1: your narrative. Now we're not saying you change the facts.

2071
01:43:02,360 --> 01:43:04,799
Speaker 1: You cannot change the facts. What has happened has happened.

2072
01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:07,320
Speaker 1: But studies have found that the real power comes not

2073
01:43:07,439 --> 01:43:10,760
Speaker 1: in changing the history, but in changing the meaning that

2074
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:12,840
Speaker 1: you have applied to that, what it means for you,

2075
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:15,400
Speaker 1: how you've interpreted it. And you can edit your story

2076
01:43:15,439 --> 01:43:18,000
Speaker 1: at any point in time, which is the most beautiful thing.

2077
01:43:18,880 --> 01:43:20,639
Speaker 1: And this is a process that I actually take through

2078
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:23,160
Speaker 1: people through in the book and Bruno stories in there

2079
01:43:23,479 --> 01:43:25,200
Speaker 1: to work through it because a big part of it

2080
01:43:25,280 --> 01:43:27,720
Speaker 1: is okay, great, we know this, but how do you

2081
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:30,040
Speaker 1: do it? And that's essentially why I wanted to write

2082
01:43:30,040 --> 01:43:33,800
Speaker 1: this book, to help people have this guide to step

2083
01:43:33,840 --> 01:43:37,160
Speaker 1: by step work through these processes to strengthen these attributes.

2084
01:43:37,479 --> 01:43:40,320
Speaker 1: And when you can do that for autonomy, you suddenly

2085
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:41,679
Speaker 1: feel more personally powerful.

2086
01:43:41,840 --> 01:43:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we just make it out like everything's our.

2087
01:43:44,000 --> 01:43:46,479
Speaker 1: Fault completely or everything's out to get us.

2088
01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and there's enough evidence to prove that. Yes,

2089
01:43:51,000 --> 01:44:09,920
Speaker 2: if you're looking for it. Yes, we know that there's

2090
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:12,320
Speaker 2: things we can control and there's things we can't control.

2091
01:44:13,080 --> 01:44:17,000
Speaker 2: But when you were saying you're calling it the external locus,

2092
01:44:18,320 --> 01:44:22,440
Speaker 2: when your mind space is locked in the external locus,

2093
01:44:23,120 --> 01:44:26,280
Speaker 2: you feel powerless because you are. Yeah, and that I

2094
01:44:26,360 --> 01:44:31,120
Speaker 2: love that connection because if we believe we're powerless, it's

2095
01:44:31,160 --> 01:44:34,080
Speaker 2: because we're finding all the evidence that we're powerless. So

2096
01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:40,360
Speaker 2: if I considered the weather today and your mood and

2097
01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:46,040
Speaker 2: my success online today as a dictation of how good

2098
01:44:46,080 --> 01:44:49,160
Speaker 2: I am, then I'm going to feel powerless because I

2099
01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:52,000
Speaker 2: actually am powerless by the three metrics that I've chosen

2100
01:44:52,040 --> 01:44:53,840
Speaker 2: to do it by. So it's not even that your

2101
01:44:53,880 --> 01:44:57,040
Speaker 2: story's inaccurate. Your story is just wrongly focused completely.

2102
01:44:57,080 --> 01:44:58,360
Speaker 1: Your attention is on the wrong thing.

2103
01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:02,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so just that simple shift back to say, okay,

2104
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:05,959
Speaker 2: let me actually only measure myself by things I can control.

2105
01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:08,280
Speaker 2: And I don't know why we all believe that we

2106
01:45:08,320 --> 01:45:12,599
Speaker 2: can control someone else's mood, our boss is mood, the weather,

2107
01:45:13,280 --> 01:45:16,360
Speaker 2: the timeline, the schedule. Like, I just don't know why

2108
01:45:16,400 --> 01:45:19,280
Speaker 2: we feel so strongly that we can control the things

2109
01:45:19,320 --> 01:45:21,680
Speaker 2: we can't and that we can't control the things we can.

2110
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:24,160
Speaker 1: Because it's easier to do that. It's much harder to

2111
01:45:24,200 --> 01:45:26,240
Speaker 1: focus on what we can control, because then we feel

2112
01:45:26,240 --> 01:45:28,360
Speaker 1: empowered and we have to do something about it. Remember

2113
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:30,840
Speaker 1: the brain, the brain likes certainty, and it wants to

2114
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:33,360
Speaker 1: use the least amount of effort possible. And if it

2115
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:35,559
Speaker 1: gets you to focus on everything outside of your control,

2116
01:45:36,160 --> 01:45:40,160
Speaker 1: you're not using your prefrontal regions, which require a lot

2117
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:43,960
Speaker 1: of metabolic energy, and so great it's easier for the brain.

2118
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:47,040
Speaker 1: We go down these habit paths of overthinking and catastrophizing,

2119
01:45:47,080 --> 01:45:49,040
Speaker 1: and then we don't have to do anything about it.

2120
01:45:49,400 --> 01:45:51,559
Speaker 1: We don't have to take the step into discomfort, we

2121
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:54,720
Speaker 1: don't have to risk the rejection or the criticism by

2122
01:45:54,720 --> 01:45:58,679
Speaker 1: trying the thing. There's this beautiful analogy of a cow

2123
01:45:58,720 --> 01:46:01,599
Speaker 1: and a bison, which I came across and I loved

2124
01:46:01,640 --> 01:46:02,720
Speaker 1: and I had to put it in the book, and

2125
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:04,519
Speaker 1: I want to share it because it's very short, but

2126
01:46:04,560 --> 01:46:07,519
Speaker 1: it's so poignant to what we're talking about. So cows

2127
01:46:07,520 --> 01:46:12,920
Speaker 1: and bison are very similar in terms of their animal history,

2128
01:46:13,120 --> 01:46:15,360
Speaker 1: very very similar to their cousins in the animal world,

2129
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:17,760
Speaker 1: but they have a very very different approach to how

2130
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:22,000
Speaker 1: they weather storms and challenges that they might experience, like

2131
01:46:22,040 --> 01:46:26,040
Speaker 1: a physical storm. So cows have been observed to huddle together,

2132
01:46:26,600 --> 01:46:29,519
Speaker 1: usually under a tree, but also they generally walk away

2133
01:46:29,560 --> 01:46:33,320
Speaker 1: from the storm, so they'll walk with the wind and

2134
01:46:33,360 --> 01:46:36,519
Speaker 1: then what happens is they end up receiving the brunt

2135
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:40,120
Speaker 1: of the storm when the storm eventually catches up to them. Bison,

2136
01:46:40,200 --> 01:46:43,519
Speaker 1: on the other hand, have been observed to walk towards

2137
01:46:43,520 --> 01:46:47,920
Speaker 1: the storm. They walk into the wind, which counterintuitorly means

2138
01:46:48,320 --> 01:46:50,640
Speaker 1: they generally pass the brunt of the storm they get

2139
01:46:50,680 --> 01:46:53,400
Speaker 1: through it much quicker. So what is the insight that

2140
01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:55,720
Speaker 1: we learned from this, Well, there are two mindsets. There

2141
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:58,320
Speaker 1: is the bison mindset, where you see the bad thing,

2142
01:46:58,479 --> 01:47:01,200
Speaker 1: you acknowledge the bad thing, approach the bad thing knowing

2143
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:05,320
Speaker 1: that there's light on the other side, or the cow mindset.

2144
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:07,360
Speaker 1: You avoid the bad thing. You run away from the

2145
01:47:07,400 --> 01:47:08,640
Speaker 1: bad thing. You don't want to own up to the

2146
01:47:08,640 --> 01:47:11,439
Speaker 1: bad thing or take ownership over it. You run away,

2147
01:47:11,439 --> 01:47:13,240
Speaker 1: and then it'll just get worse and worse and worse.

2148
01:47:14,240 --> 01:47:16,080
Speaker 1: Some people don't like the you know, thinking of themselves

2149
01:47:16,120 --> 01:47:17,760
Speaker 1: as a cow, so you can think of something else,

2150
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:21,080
Speaker 1: some other animal, a labord or whatever it is. But

2151
01:47:21,760 --> 01:47:23,840
Speaker 1: we need to be asking how do we embody more

2152
01:47:23,880 --> 01:47:26,920
Speaker 1: of that bison mindset? How do we just acknowledge you know,

2153
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 1: life is hard, life is really hard, and you get

2154
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:32,320
Speaker 1: to choose how you're going to show up to that

2155
01:47:32,320 --> 01:47:34,200
Speaker 1: hard Are you going to try and avoid it? Because

2156
01:47:34,200 --> 01:47:36,880
Speaker 1: what we also know part of this pillar is recognizing

2157
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:39,519
Speaker 1: that the more you expose yourself to hard things. So

2158
01:47:39,560 --> 01:47:42,120
Speaker 1: this goes back to your story Jay about how you

2159
01:47:42,200 --> 01:47:45,120
Speaker 1: just embrace the discomfort and now you love it. The

2160
01:47:45,160 --> 01:47:47,720
Speaker 1: more you can expose yourself to discomfort. So when we're

2161
01:47:47,760 --> 01:47:50,760
Speaker 1: experiencing discomfort, it's the brain's way of telling us, Hey,

2162
01:47:50,880 --> 01:47:53,360
Speaker 1: this is uncertain. I don't like it. Go back and

2163
01:47:53,360 --> 01:47:54,880
Speaker 1: play it safe because then I don't have to use

2164
01:47:54,920 --> 01:47:58,160
Speaker 1: as much energy. Right, But if you can acknowledge that

2165
01:47:58,160 --> 01:48:01,240
Speaker 1: that discomfort is often what triggers neurotrophins in the brain,

2166
01:48:01,680 --> 01:48:05,400
Speaker 1: which are these proteins that help us learn things and

2167
01:48:05,439 --> 01:48:08,160
Speaker 1: develop new pathways in the brain. And it's through discomfort

2168
01:48:08,240 --> 01:48:10,040
Speaker 1: that we get that way. And that's why learning something

2169
01:48:10,080 --> 01:48:12,840
Speaker 1: new is uncomfortable, because it's triggering parts in the brain.

2170
01:48:13,240 --> 01:48:15,320
Speaker 1: But the more you do that, the easier it gets,

2171
01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:18,320
Speaker 1: and then that initial discomfort is so much less the

2172
01:48:18,360 --> 01:48:20,719
Speaker 1: next time, and then less the next time. You almost

2173
01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:23,160
Speaker 1: reinterpret what you feel. Hey, I feel this way because

2174
01:48:23,200 --> 01:48:25,920
Speaker 1: I care. I feel this way because it's excitement, not fear,

2175
01:48:26,800 --> 01:48:29,880
Speaker 1: and that idea of being the bison, stepping into the discomfort,

2176
01:48:30,600 --> 01:48:34,360
Speaker 1: putting yourself out there. A lot of people talk about luck. Oh,

2177
01:48:34,360 --> 01:48:35,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to share one more story with you. It

2178
01:48:35,600 --> 01:48:37,120
Speaker 1: from Christopher Nolan. It's such a good one.

2179
01:48:37,200 --> 01:48:40,080
Speaker 2: I love you know. Nolan's my favorite, brilliant Okay, so.

2180
01:48:40,080 --> 01:48:42,040
Speaker 1: You're gonna you're gonna resonate with this. You're gonna resonate.

2181
01:48:42,160 --> 01:48:44,400
Speaker 1: So Christopher Nolan for anyone not so familiar, he's the

2182
01:48:44,560 --> 01:48:49,080
Speaker 1: incredible director of Oppenheimer and Inception and what.

2183
01:48:49,000 --> 01:48:52,400
Speaker 3: Else is it doing Dark Knight trilogy exactly. Yeah, phenomena.

2184
01:48:52,240 --> 01:48:57,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, Memento is brilliant, and a lot of people, oh Interstellar,

2185
01:48:57,080 --> 01:48:59,800
Speaker 1: that's right. A lot of people will say he is

2186
01:49:00,280 --> 01:49:03,120
Speaker 1: phenomenally lucky with the weather when he shoots.

2187
01:49:03,320 --> 01:49:03,759
Speaker 2: Interesting.

2188
01:49:04,040 --> 01:49:09,240
Speaker 1: Okay, noomenally lucky because incredible, incredible scenes with just the

2189
01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:12,639
Speaker 1: weather being exactly what it needed to be. Like, there

2190
01:49:12,720 --> 01:49:15,800
Speaker 1: was this one scene in Inception not inception in Oppenheimer

2191
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:18,280
Speaker 1: where they were doing the detonation of the first nuclear

2192
01:49:18,280 --> 01:49:23,240
Speaker 1: bomb and they had this incredible, dark, ominous storm that

2193
01:49:23,439 --> 01:49:25,960
Speaker 1: was rolling in and they were able to film and

2194
01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:29,680
Speaker 1: get this incredible scene that created cinematic magic. There was

2195
01:49:29,720 --> 01:49:34,120
Speaker 1: so much drama. Now, Nolan in interviews he rejects the

2196
01:49:34,160 --> 01:49:36,360
Speaker 1: idea that he's lucky. He says, I am not lucky.

2197
01:49:36,400 --> 01:49:39,719
Speaker 1: I am incredibly unlucky. But we have made a pact

2198
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:41,439
Speaker 1: and a commitment that when we go out there, we

2199
01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:44,479
Speaker 1: shoot no matter what the weather conditions are in and

2200
01:49:44,520 --> 01:49:48,160
Speaker 1: that allows us to capitalize when the right weather is there.

2201
01:49:49,000 --> 01:49:50,519
Speaker 1: So what is the lesson that we take from this?

2202
01:49:51,080 --> 01:49:55,040
Speaker 1: Nolan's team has created an environment where they embrace the

2203
01:49:55,040 --> 01:49:57,160
Speaker 1: discomfort of not knowing what weather they're going to have.

2204
01:49:57,880 --> 01:50:00,000
Speaker 1: Some days it rains, some days it's sunny, some days

2205
01:50:00,080 --> 01:50:03,720
Speaker 1: it's great, some days it's not. They film regardless, So

2206
01:50:03,760 --> 01:50:07,240
Speaker 1: they're exposing themselves to that discomfort so that when the

2207
01:50:07,280 --> 01:50:11,240
Speaker 1: opportunity arises like that amazing storm, they know how to

2208
01:50:11,240 --> 01:50:14,280
Speaker 1: handle it. They've been in similar situations. They are prepped,

2209
01:50:14,320 --> 01:50:18,800
Speaker 1: they are primed. And we call this earned luck. So

2210
01:50:18,840 --> 01:50:20,640
Speaker 1: it's not just oh my goodness, we got lucky, No,

2211
01:50:20,720 --> 01:50:24,640
Speaker 1: we earned that luck. We created what's his name is.

2212
01:50:24,880 --> 01:50:27,400
Speaker 1: There's a tech entrepreneur who calls it a luck surface area.

2213
01:50:27,920 --> 01:50:30,519
Speaker 1: You can increase your luck surface area and the chances

2214
01:50:30,520 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 1: that you will receive good luck by exposure to discomfort, visibility,

2215
01:50:36,280 --> 01:50:38,360
Speaker 1: putting yourself out there, putting your hand up in the meeting,

2216
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:40,200
Speaker 1: applying for the job that you think you're not going

2217
01:50:40,240 --> 01:50:43,360
Speaker 1: to get. You don't know unless you try, and that's

2218
01:50:43,360 --> 01:50:46,480
Speaker 1: the sign of your autonomy. And so strengthening that attribute

2219
01:50:46,520 --> 01:50:49,360
Speaker 1: is so important for that state of big trust, so

2220
01:50:49,439 --> 01:50:52,120
Speaker 1: you can start to achieve the things you want to achieve,

2221
01:50:52,160 --> 01:50:53,920
Speaker 1: get the opportunities that you really seek.

2222
01:50:54,960 --> 01:51:00,960
Speaker 2: It's amazing talked about accept and we've talked about agency autonomy. Yes,

2223
01:51:01,240 --> 01:51:03,000
Speaker 2: I love that you taught You taught me something about

2224
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:05,120
Speaker 2: Nolan that I didn't know because I'm a big Nolan geek.

2225
01:51:05,200 --> 01:51:07,599
Speaker 2: So I love that. What's the fourth one?

2226
01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:10,720
Speaker 1: The fourth one is what we call adaptability, and it

2227
01:51:10,800 --> 01:51:13,519
Speaker 1: specifically relates in the context of doubt and big trust.

2228
01:51:13,560 --> 01:51:16,680
Speaker 1: It relates to your ability to adapt to your emotions.

2229
01:51:17,280 --> 01:51:20,320
Speaker 1: We cannot necessarily control emotions. We can guide them, we

2230
01:51:20,360 --> 01:51:22,919
Speaker 1: can harness them, but they will often come in response

2231
01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:26,160
Speaker 1: to a stimulus. Yeah, so how do you adapt to it?

2232
01:51:26,240 --> 01:51:27,720
Speaker 2: So for that, what I want to do is I

2233
01:51:27,720 --> 01:51:30,679
Speaker 2: want to give you a series of scenarios okay, where

2234
01:51:30,680 --> 01:51:33,760
Speaker 2: I think you are having emotions, Okay, to help you

2235
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:36,080
Speaker 2: answer it. Sound good? Yeah, okay, great, all right, because

2236
01:51:36,120 --> 01:51:38,000
Speaker 2: I think this is what I was saving these for

2237
01:51:38,200 --> 01:51:42,680
Speaker 2: because I feel they'll their moments in time that all

2238
01:51:42,720 --> 01:51:46,400
Speaker 2: of us experience where there is an emotional reaction and

2239
01:51:46,640 --> 01:51:47,719
Speaker 2: we need to know how to adapt.

2240
01:51:47,880 --> 01:51:48,559
Speaker 1: Yes, brilliant.

2241
01:51:48,600 --> 01:51:51,599
Speaker 2: So you're about to speak up in a meeting and

2242
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:54,880
Speaker 2: your brain floods with what if I mess up?

2243
01:51:55,240 --> 01:51:57,960
Speaker 1: So we call this the three second spiral stop. So

2244
01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:00,880
Speaker 1: when this happens, you want to acknowledge. So first we

2245
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:03,559
Speaker 1: take a breath, take a moment, take a breath three seconds,

2246
01:52:03,640 --> 01:52:07,200
Speaker 1: breathe in second step, is to acknowledge that your brain

2247
01:52:07,520 --> 01:52:10,439
Speaker 1: is just doing what it's meant to do. It's just

2248
01:52:10,560 --> 01:52:14,400
Speaker 1: wired to magnify everything that could go wrong. But it's okay.

2249
01:52:14,439 --> 01:52:16,880
Speaker 1: There's no physical danger here, so you need to remind

2250
01:52:16,880 --> 01:52:20,880
Speaker 1: yourself nothing terrible is going to happen. The fourth are

2251
01:52:20,880 --> 01:52:22,080
Speaker 1: way up to the third step. I think we're up

2252
01:52:22,080 --> 01:52:24,840
Speaker 1: to the third step. The third step is to keep

2253
01:52:24,920 --> 01:52:27,880
Speaker 1: your whatever you're going to say, keep it as short

2254
01:52:27,880 --> 01:52:29,519
Speaker 1: as possible. And the reason why I say this is

2255
01:52:29,560 --> 01:52:31,760
Speaker 1: because your brain is magnifying what could go wrong, because

2256
01:52:31,800 --> 01:52:34,519
Speaker 1: you probably haven't done this many times. It doesn't really

2257
01:52:34,520 --> 01:52:36,720
Speaker 1: have the proof points that you can do this and

2258
01:52:36,760 --> 01:52:38,760
Speaker 1: do it well. And if you try and go out

2259
01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:40,080
Speaker 1: there and the first thing you want to say is

2260
01:52:40,080 --> 01:52:42,920
Speaker 1: a five minute monologue about you're going to fluster and

2261
01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:45,000
Speaker 1: lose it, and then you're going to have a negative

2262
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:48,000
Speaker 1: evidence point. So keep it really short. You might validate

2263
01:52:48,000 --> 01:52:50,120
Speaker 1: what someone else has said. That's a great idea, Jay,

2264
01:52:50,320 --> 01:52:52,719
Speaker 1: or I'd like to build on what Simon said, Or Maria,

2265
01:52:52,760 --> 01:52:54,120
Speaker 1: can you repeat that one more time. I want to

2266
01:52:54,120 --> 01:52:57,280
Speaker 1: make sure my notes have it correctly. Really low stakes, easy,

2267
01:52:57,439 --> 01:53:01,040
Speaker 1: you're just allowing that energy to come out once you've

2268
01:53:01,080 --> 01:53:03,240
Speaker 1: done that and you've got the proof point. The next

2269
01:53:03,280 --> 01:53:05,479
Speaker 1: step is, Okay, now I'm going to really share what

2270
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:08,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to share. Ask that longer question, share my perspective.

2271
01:53:09,120 --> 01:53:10,360
Speaker 1: I know I can do it because I just did

2272
01:53:10,400 --> 01:53:12,559
Speaker 1: it before. I'm also going to breathe again. I'm going

2273
01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:15,000
Speaker 1: to remind myself there's no physical threat, and then I'm

2274
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:17,120
Speaker 1: going to speak. You want to make sure that you're

2275
01:53:17,160 --> 01:53:20,320
Speaker 1: not speaking fast, because when our emotions are in overdrive,

2276
01:53:20,680 --> 01:53:23,920
Speaker 1: we get nervous. We speed up our pace, which then

2277
01:53:23,960 --> 01:53:26,560
Speaker 1: can make people zone out or it undermines our credibility.

2278
01:53:26,960 --> 01:53:31,000
Speaker 1: So speak slowly, have a pause, importantly, make eye contact.

2279
01:53:31,720 --> 01:53:34,400
Speaker 1: That's what allows people to stay engaged. And that's how

2280
01:53:34,439 --> 01:53:36,120
Speaker 1: you can harness your emotion in that moment.

2281
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:40,799
Speaker 2: Got it. Great adaptability? I love that, all right? This one.

2282
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:43,679
Speaker 2: If you're in a meeting and a coworker takes credit

2283
01:53:43,760 --> 01:53:45,439
Speaker 2: for your work, what do you do?

2284
01:53:45,840 --> 01:53:48,000
Speaker 1: So you're in a meeting and that coworker takes credit.

2285
01:53:48,560 --> 01:53:51,000
Speaker 1: There are two scenarios. Either it's happened before or this

2286
01:53:51,080 --> 01:53:53,000
Speaker 1: is the first time. Let's start with If it's the

2287
01:53:53,040 --> 01:53:57,880
Speaker 1: first time, you might feel that negative emotion bubble, that unfairness,

2288
01:53:57,920 --> 01:54:01,360
Speaker 1: that inequality, that this is not right. What I encourage

2289
01:54:01,360 --> 01:54:05,120
Speaker 1: you to do firstly, determine whether you speaking up now

2290
01:54:05,280 --> 01:54:07,760
Speaker 1: is what you want to do. Sometimes it's not even

2291
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:10,080
Speaker 1: worth it. Let it go. But if this is something

2292
01:54:10,120 --> 01:54:12,880
Speaker 1: that you really need to get recognition for, you put

2293
01:54:12,920 --> 01:54:14,840
Speaker 1: in a lot of work, you really feel like this

2294
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:18,479
Speaker 1: is important, call it out immediately. So Jay, let's say

2295
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:21,200
Speaker 1: you're taking credit for my work. I would jump in.

2296
01:54:21,439 --> 01:54:23,160
Speaker 1: Even if I have to cut Jay off a little bit,

2297
01:54:23,200 --> 01:54:26,120
Speaker 1: that's fine. I'd say. What Jay's trying to explain is

2298
01:54:26,160 --> 01:54:29,040
Speaker 1: that he worked on the initial proposal. I then jumped

2299
01:54:29,040 --> 01:54:30,559
Speaker 1: in and I worked with clients and we got the

2300
01:54:30,560 --> 01:54:32,760
Speaker 1: whole project going and it was a fantastic team effort

2301
01:54:32,800 --> 01:54:36,120
Speaker 1: and we're really proud of what we've created. You immediately

2302
01:54:36,160 --> 01:54:38,720
Speaker 1: jump in there, add you in. You don't say that's

2303
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:42,080
Speaker 1: not right, Jay, I was involved. You guide the conversation,

2304
01:54:42,280 --> 01:54:44,560
Speaker 1: bring it back to the team, and then make it

2305
01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:46,680
Speaker 1: about the impact or the effort at the end. And

2306
01:54:46,720 --> 01:54:49,160
Speaker 1: that way, it's a polite way to just remind the person, Hey,

2307
01:54:49,160 --> 01:54:52,400
Speaker 1: you're on notice, I was involved in this too. Now,

2308
01:54:52,440 --> 01:54:55,640
Speaker 1: if it keeps happening, you want to have a conversation

2309
01:54:55,680 --> 01:54:58,040
Speaker 1: with that person, which is hard because again, if you

2310
01:54:58,120 --> 01:55:01,120
Speaker 1: lack acceptance, you're also going to feel very insecure. What

2311
01:55:01,120 --> 01:55:02,440
Speaker 1: are they going to say? What if they're going to

2312
01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:04,480
Speaker 1: hate me? What if it's going to damage their relationship?

2313
01:55:04,880 --> 01:55:07,440
Speaker 1: Have a conversation with them in a private environment, and

2314
01:55:07,480 --> 01:55:11,200
Speaker 1: you would say, hey, j I've noticed. So you make

2315
01:55:11,240 --> 01:55:13,880
Speaker 1: it about an observation, I've noticed that in the last

2316
01:55:13,880 --> 01:55:18,640
Speaker 1: three meetings when you have so it's when you when

2317
01:55:18,680 --> 01:55:21,160
Speaker 1: you have taken credit for the work that we've been

2318
01:55:21,200 --> 01:55:24,800
Speaker 1: involved in. When you I feel, I feel like my

2319
01:55:24,920 --> 01:55:28,920
Speaker 1: contributions are not valued or appreciated, and I would like

2320
01:55:29,880 --> 01:55:31,640
Speaker 1: and I would like us to be a part of

2321
01:55:31,680 --> 01:55:35,480
Speaker 1: a team that recognizes each other. Okay, So when you

2322
01:55:35,600 --> 01:55:37,520
Speaker 1: I feel and I would like, And then what you

2323
01:55:37,560 --> 01:55:40,400
Speaker 1: want to do at the end is how do you

2324
01:55:40,440 --> 01:55:42,880
Speaker 1: feel about that or what's going on for you when

2325
01:55:42,920 --> 01:55:45,440
Speaker 1: you take credit for this work? Are you aware of it?

2326
01:55:45,600 --> 01:55:50,240
Speaker 1: Allow them to speak, and then again you're politely highlighting

2327
01:55:50,240 --> 01:55:52,120
Speaker 1: to them, Hey, I'm aware that you're taking my credit.

2328
01:55:52,200 --> 01:55:55,160
Speaker 1: It's kind of not okay, it's happened before. How are

2329
01:55:55,200 --> 01:55:58,120
Speaker 1: we going to address this if it keeps happening. You

2330
01:55:58,120 --> 01:56:00,520
Speaker 1: would have a private conversation and say, look, if this

2331
01:56:00,560 --> 01:56:03,560
Speaker 1: does keep happening, I will mention it. Every meeting that

2332
01:56:03,600 --> 01:56:05,160
Speaker 1: comes up where you do take the credit, I will

2333
01:56:05,200 --> 01:56:07,760
Speaker 1: jump in and say, hey, this was me too. How

2334
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:09,880
Speaker 1: do we make this work for the sake of our relationship,

2335
01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:12,240
Speaker 1: for the sake of our collaboration. So you want to

2336
01:56:12,280 --> 01:56:15,720
Speaker 1: focus on assertiveness. Tone is going to be important. You

2337
01:56:15,720 --> 01:56:18,440
Speaker 1: don't want them to become combative, but also giving them

2338
01:56:18,440 --> 01:56:21,400
Speaker 1: an opportunity to defend themselves if they weren't aware of it. Yeah,

2339
01:56:21,440 --> 01:56:23,360
Speaker 1: you know, giving them the benefit of the doubt, which

2340
01:56:23,360 --> 01:56:26,040
Speaker 1: helps you feel like you're not going in there combative,

2341
01:56:26,360 --> 01:56:28,040
Speaker 1: You're going in there with a collaborative view.

2342
01:56:28,280 --> 01:56:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's good. And hopefully if you're dealing with a

2343
01:56:31,320 --> 01:56:33,760
Speaker 2: slightly mature individual, they'll be able to receive it well,

2344
01:56:33,880 --> 01:56:36,640
Speaker 2: because I think that's half the battle. That you're working

2345
01:56:36,680 --> 01:56:41,120
Speaker 2: with someone who just you know, to that if someone

2346
01:56:41,160 --> 01:56:44,640
Speaker 2: just got fired or lost their job, what would you

2347
01:56:44,720 --> 01:56:45,480
Speaker 2: encourage them to do?

2348
01:56:46,280 --> 01:56:49,560
Speaker 1: I could, I will list So if you just lose

2349
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:52,000
Speaker 1: your job or you just got fired, and you're generally

2350
01:56:52,040 --> 01:56:54,160
Speaker 1: what will happen is you will feel very low autonomy

2351
01:56:54,200 --> 01:56:56,640
Speaker 1: because these things are completely out of your control. You

2352
01:56:56,720 --> 01:56:59,560
Speaker 1: might also feel a lack of agency. Oh no, I

2353
01:56:59,600 --> 01:57:01,839
Speaker 1: got fired. Does that mean my skills are not valuable?

2354
01:57:02,120 --> 01:57:04,720
Speaker 1: You might then experience a lack of acceptance. Oh no,

2355
01:57:04,760 --> 01:57:06,840
Speaker 1: I'm a failure. I'm never going to be good enough.

2356
01:57:06,840 --> 01:57:09,160
Speaker 1: And then the adaptability is going to be going crazy

2357
01:57:09,280 --> 01:57:11,920
Speaker 1: because your emotions are firing. So what will help you

2358
01:57:11,960 --> 01:57:14,200
Speaker 1: as the first step is the autonomy piece?

2359
01:57:14,600 --> 01:57:14,720
Speaker 3: Right?

2360
01:57:14,760 --> 01:57:15,000
Speaker 2: Okay?

2361
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:16,720
Speaker 1: What are all the things that I could do right now?

2362
01:57:17,360 --> 01:57:17,560
Speaker 3: Well?

2363
01:57:17,640 --> 01:57:19,720
Speaker 1: I could reach out to someone, I could ask the

2364
01:57:19,720 --> 01:57:23,640
Speaker 1: interviewer for feedback. I could update my LinkedIn I could

2365
01:57:24,240 --> 01:57:25,880
Speaker 1: you know what? I could take a day off and

2366
01:57:26,000 --> 01:57:28,800
Speaker 1: just process this and then I will What will you do?

2367
01:57:29,000 --> 01:57:30,680
Speaker 1: You might be like, you know what, I'm going to

2368
01:57:30,680 --> 01:57:32,880
Speaker 1: take a day off to process this because this was

2369
01:57:32,920 --> 01:57:34,480
Speaker 1: a lot, or I'm going to take a week off,

2370
01:57:34,520 --> 01:57:35,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to take a month off.

2371
01:57:35,480 --> 01:57:35,839
Speaker 2: Whatever.

2372
01:57:36,200 --> 01:57:38,560
Speaker 1: But remind yourself you can take an action and then

2373
01:57:38,600 --> 01:57:41,800
Speaker 1: take the action and then make your plan. But fundamentally,

2374
01:57:41,880 --> 01:57:43,560
Speaker 1: if we bring it back to big Trust, you have

2375
01:57:43,600 --> 01:57:46,440
Speaker 1: to remind yourself you are not your work. It was

2376
01:57:46,480 --> 01:57:49,480
Speaker 1: a business decision. It is not a reflection of your value.

2377
01:57:49,920 --> 01:57:53,200
Speaker 1: Maybe let's say that you were an underperformer and it

2378
01:57:53,240 --> 01:57:56,560
Speaker 1: was a reflection of your performance, you still say to yourself,

2379
01:57:56,760 --> 01:57:59,520
Speaker 1: this is data that I'm going to process and get

2380
01:57:59,520 --> 01:58:03,760
Speaker 1: better next time. Next one agency, I can improve my skills.

2381
01:58:04,000 --> 01:58:06,360
Speaker 1: I can go work for an organization that values the

2382
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:08,000
Speaker 1: skills that I already have. I can learn what I

2383
01:58:08,040 --> 01:58:10,600
Speaker 1: need to autonomy what am I going to focus on

2384
01:58:10,680 --> 01:58:13,840
Speaker 1: right now to keep moving forward? And then that adaptability,

2385
01:58:14,000 --> 01:58:15,480
Speaker 1: what else do I need to do to make sure

2386
01:58:15,520 --> 01:58:18,040
Speaker 1: that my emotions are in check? And a lot of

2387
01:58:18,080 --> 01:58:21,160
Speaker 1: it is reframing. So instead of saying I am anxious,

2388
01:58:21,680 --> 01:58:24,600
Speaker 1: because remember this idea of labeling anything that comes after

2389
01:58:24,720 --> 01:58:28,080
Speaker 1: I am, we internalize it feels like it's fixed. Instead

2390
01:58:28,080 --> 01:58:31,360
Speaker 1: of I am anxious, I'm noticing a thought that I'm

2391
01:58:31,360 --> 01:58:36,240
Speaker 1: feeling anxious because this thing happened. Identify the stimulus. Instead

2392
01:58:36,240 --> 01:58:39,200
Speaker 1: of I am a failure, I'm noticing a thought that's

2393
01:58:39,200 --> 01:58:41,720
Speaker 1: telling me I'm a failure because I just lost my job.

2394
01:58:42,480 --> 01:58:46,600
Speaker 1: You're creating what's called cognitive diffusion, separating yourself from the thought,

2395
01:58:46,920 --> 01:58:49,480
Speaker 1: reminding you you don't have to believe everything you think,

2396
01:58:50,200 --> 01:58:53,320
Speaker 1: which also reminds you you don't have to believe everything

2397
01:58:53,360 --> 01:58:55,400
Speaker 1: that your mind tells you to, and that can be

2398
01:58:55,440 --> 01:58:56,560
Speaker 1: really powerful I.

2399
01:58:56,560 --> 01:59:01,400
Speaker 2: Love how your four a's just fully encapsulate the entire

2400
01:59:01,480 --> 01:59:03,920
Speaker 2: process and give us something to turn to. It all

2401
01:59:04,000 --> 01:59:07,520
Speaker 2: times is to quickly diagnose which one we're struggling with

2402
01:59:07,560 --> 01:59:10,760
Speaker 2: before the domino effect happens and it all start toppling

2403
01:59:10,760 --> 01:59:14,240
Speaker 2: each other own shut it today has been I have

2404
01:59:14,360 --> 01:59:16,720
Speaker 2: learned so much from me. I feel like you've blown

2405
01:59:16,760 --> 01:59:22,400
Speaker 2: my mind with research, fascinated me with stories, so many

2406
01:59:22,440 --> 01:59:25,680
Speaker 2: great practical tips, and it's all inside this new book,

2407
01:59:25,840 --> 01:59:29,880
Speaker 2: Big Trust, Rewire self doubt, Find your confidence and fuel

2408
01:59:29,920 --> 01:59:33,160
Speaker 2: success by shutters A right pre order your copy. You

2409
01:59:33,200 --> 01:59:35,400
Speaker 2: will have it for the new year so that you

2410
01:59:35,440 --> 01:59:38,680
Speaker 2: can start your new year with less self doubt, find

2411
01:59:38,720 --> 01:59:43,080
Speaker 2: your confidence, start trusting yourself. Please pre order this book

2412
01:59:43,160 --> 01:59:45,840
Speaker 2: right now. As an author who knows how hard it

2413
01:59:45,880 --> 01:59:48,280
Speaker 2: is to write books, authors put in so much time,

2414
01:59:48,360 --> 01:59:50,440
Speaker 2: so much effort to put together. As you can tell,

2415
01:59:50,600 --> 01:59:54,360
Speaker 2: Shat is one of the most researched, most well read,

2416
01:59:54,440 --> 01:59:57,160
Speaker 2: and you know, comprehensive thinkers that we have like that.

2417
01:59:58,680 --> 02:00:02,560
Speaker 2: It's such a brilliant tapestry of a step by step

2418
02:00:02,600 --> 02:00:04,920
Speaker 2: process of what people can actually apply in their lives.

2419
02:00:05,320 --> 02:00:06,760
Speaker 2: And so it'd mean the world to me if you

2420
02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:08,760
Speaker 2: go and support her book, Go and pre order it.

2421
02:00:08,960 --> 02:00:11,440
Speaker 2: Pre Orders help authors a lot too, So I just

2422
02:00:11,480 --> 02:00:13,000
Speaker 2: want to put it out there that if you've been

2423
02:00:13,440 --> 02:00:16,080
Speaker 2: if you found value in today's conversation, which you'd be

2424
02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:18,480
Speaker 2: crazy to think you haven't, then please go and pre

2425
02:00:18,560 --> 02:00:21,280
Speaker 2: order the book Shadow. We end every episode with a

2426
02:00:21,360 --> 02:00:23,920
Speaker 2: final five. These questions have to be answered in one

2427
02:00:23,960 --> 02:00:27,840
Speaker 2: word or one sentence maximum, So Shadows, all right, these

2428
02:00:27,840 --> 02:00:30,560
Speaker 2: are your final five. Question Number one, what is the

2429
02:00:30,600 --> 02:00:32,919
Speaker 2: best advice you've ever heard or received?

2430
02:00:33,640 --> 02:00:36,120
Speaker 1: My mum always encouraged me, if you want it, ask

2431
02:00:36,200 --> 02:00:37,400
Speaker 1: for it.

2432
02:00:37,560 --> 02:00:38,120
Speaker 2: Great advice.

2433
02:00:38,120 --> 02:00:39,360
Speaker 1: So why I asked my husband to marry me?

2434
02:00:39,880 --> 02:00:40,680
Speaker 2: Did you I did?

2435
02:00:41,320 --> 02:00:47,520
Speaker 1: That's more than a sentence. So my incredible husband, Faisal

2436
02:00:47,720 --> 02:00:49,360
Speaker 1: is also co author. So a lot of the ideas

2437
02:00:49,400 --> 02:00:50,720
Speaker 1: I wrote it, but a lot of the ideas are

2438
02:00:50,720 --> 02:00:54,480
Speaker 1: our ideas. When I met him, I had a deep knowing.

2439
02:00:55,160 --> 02:00:56,880
Speaker 1: It wasn't even an emotional thing. It was a deep

2440
02:00:56,920 --> 02:00:58,600
Speaker 1: knowing that, Okay, this is the person I want to

2441
02:00:58,600 --> 02:01:01,880
Speaker 1: spend my life with. And then we got to a

2442
02:01:01,880 --> 02:01:04,480
Speaker 1: point where I said to him, it was very quick,

2443
02:01:04,640 --> 02:01:06,600
Speaker 1: it was It all happened in a year. We met,

2444
02:01:06,880 --> 02:01:10,840
Speaker 1: we were married within about nine months. I said to him,

2445
02:01:10,840 --> 02:01:15,000
Speaker 1: I can see us having an amazing life together. It

2446
02:01:15,040 --> 02:01:16,800
Speaker 1: was basically like, look, this might be forward, but I

2447
02:01:16,800 --> 02:01:19,200
Speaker 1: can see us having an amazing life together. That was

2448
02:01:19,280 --> 02:01:21,720
Speaker 1: essentially me proposing, and then he said how do we

2449
02:01:21,760 --> 02:01:23,720
Speaker 1: make that happen? And that was him accepting.

2450
02:01:24,160 --> 02:01:24,480
Speaker 2: That was it.

2451
02:01:24,520 --> 02:01:26,240
Speaker 1: So there was no will you marry me? Getting on

2452
02:01:26,240 --> 02:01:28,960
Speaker 1: my knee. It was just a conversation making sure we're

2453
02:01:28,960 --> 02:01:31,080
Speaker 1: both on the same page. And then it happened so quickly,

2454
02:01:31,120 --> 02:01:32,680
Speaker 1: and then from that moment to when we were married

2455
02:01:32,800 --> 02:01:33,560
Speaker 1: was like three months.

2456
02:01:33,960 --> 02:01:34,120
Speaker 3: That.

2457
02:01:34,280 --> 02:01:36,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you want to ask, because in fact,

2458
02:01:36,600 --> 02:01:39,640
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs shares this story of how when he was young,

2459
02:01:39,640 --> 02:01:43,080
Speaker 1: he was about twelve years old and his neighbor was

2460
02:01:43,120 --> 02:01:45,880
Speaker 1: the head of Hewlett Packard and one day he just asked,

2461
02:01:45,920 --> 02:01:47,920
Speaker 1: He said, can I come in and learn some things?

2462
02:01:48,080 --> 02:01:50,320
Speaker 1: Can I just come into the office? And he said

2463
02:01:50,360 --> 02:01:52,920
Speaker 1: it was that ability that he had to just ask,

2464
02:01:53,360 --> 02:01:56,760
Speaker 1: because ninety nine points seven percent of people will not ask.

2465
02:01:57,200 --> 02:01:59,200
Speaker 1: They will wait for someone to tap themselves on the

2466
02:01:59,200 --> 02:02:01,720
Speaker 1: shoulder to give them the opportunity. They will wait to

2467
02:02:01,760 --> 02:02:04,320
Speaker 1: get the promotion or get given the raise. It doesn't

2468
02:02:04,320 --> 02:02:06,919
Speaker 1: work like that. We don't live in that world, especially

2469
02:02:06,920 --> 02:02:09,480
Speaker 1: in the context of work, where studies have found that,

2470
02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:14,880
Speaker 1: especially in big organizations, managers don't remember at least sixty

2471
02:02:14,880 --> 02:02:17,040
Speaker 1: percent of what their teams do. They either don't know

2472
02:02:17,160 --> 02:02:19,320
Speaker 1: or don't remember, which means if your manager is not

2473
02:02:19,360 --> 02:02:21,520
Speaker 1: aware of what you're delivering, you need to ask for

2474
02:02:21,560 --> 02:02:25,120
Speaker 1: what you want and demonstrate it by way of tangible value. Right,

2475
02:02:25,200 --> 02:02:28,160
Speaker 1: here's what I'm delivering, here's what I'm asking, So we

2476
02:02:28,200 --> 02:02:30,800
Speaker 1: have to ask. So that was wonderful advice from my mom.

2477
02:02:30,920 --> 02:02:33,320
Speaker 2: I love that question. Number two, what's the worst advice

2478
02:02:33,320 --> 02:02:34,360
Speaker 2: you ever heard? Who received?

2479
02:02:35,240 --> 02:02:38,120
Speaker 1: The worst advice that I got was when I worked

2480
02:02:38,160 --> 02:02:40,440
Speaker 1: in banking. I had someone say to me. It was

2481
02:02:40,520 --> 02:02:42,720
Speaker 1: a manager at the time. He said, I think you

2482
02:02:42,760 --> 02:02:46,400
Speaker 1: should just go into roles where you help people. Now,

2483
02:02:46,400 --> 02:02:49,160
Speaker 1: the reason why I found that bad advice at the

2484
02:02:49,160 --> 02:02:52,200
Speaker 1: time is he was saying it because he was trying

2485
02:02:52,240 --> 02:02:55,320
Speaker 1: to undermine me. I was in a highly strategic role.

2486
02:02:55,880 --> 02:03:00,200
Speaker 1: He was basically encouraging me not to pursue that, to

2487
02:03:00,240 --> 02:03:02,240
Speaker 1: just go and help people. Now, if someone says that

2488
02:03:02,240 --> 02:03:04,160
Speaker 1: to you in a bank, it's not a good thing.

2489
02:03:04,800 --> 02:03:08,280
Speaker 1: The reason why that was bad advice is that sometimes

2490
02:03:08,360 --> 02:03:10,320
Speaker 1: we get advice. This is such a long response, sorry,

2491
02:03:10,320 --> 02:03:13,960
Speaker 1: but sometimes we get advice from people that they come

2492
02:03:14,080 --> 02:03:16,520
Speaker 1: out as if they're caring about you and they have

2493
02:03:16,560 --> 02:03:20,960
Speaker 1: your best interests at heart, But really it's discouragement framed

2494
02:03:21,000 --> 02:03:23,840
Speaker 1: as advice, as was this one. Now, little does he know,

2495
02:03:24,000 --> 02:03:26,200
Speaker 1: my entire career now is helping people. So I took

2496
02:03:26,240 --> 02:03:27,640
Speaker 1: that advice and I ran with it, and I'm so

2497
02:03:27,720 --> 02:03:31,720
Speaker 1: grateful for it. In that environment, that was terrible advice

2498
02:03:31,760 --> 02:03:34,920
Speaker 1: to give somebody. So I think it's so important when

2499
02:03:34,920 --> 02:03:37,800
Speaker 1: it comes to advice, acknowledge that people are only going

2500
02:03:37,840 --> 02:03:40,120
Speaker 1: to tell you things based on their frame of reference,

2501
02:03:40,120 --> 02:03:42,120
Speaker 1: so what they would do if they were you, or

2502
02:03:42,120 --> 02:03:44,360
Speaker 1: they might be trying to discourage you. So you can

2503
02:03:44,360 --> 02:03:45,720
Speaker 1: take it if you want to, You can leave it

2504
02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:47,400
Speaker 1: if you want to. I want to share just one

2505
02:03:47,440 --> 02:03:50,040
Speaker 1: other thing. It's not a question. I think we've finished

2506
02:03:50,080 --> 02:03:52,600
Speaker 1: the five questions right because I've gone over. I have

2507
02:03:52,640 --> 02:03:54,760
Speaker 1: one other thing that I want to share here, which

2508
02:03:54,800 --> 02:03:56,520
Speaker 1: is not related to these two, but I have to

2509
02:03:56,520 --> 02:03:59,280
Speaker 1: say it because it's so powerful and simple. What we

2510
02:03:59,280 --> 02:04:01,240
Speaker 1: found is when people go on the journey of growth,

2511
02:04:01,360 --> 02:04:03,440
Speaker 1: any journey of growth, like people who have gone through

2512
02:04:03,440 --> 02:04:06,280
Speaker 1: the Big trust framework and seen those transformative impacts in

2513
02:04:06,320 --> 02:04:10,240
Speaker 1: their lives. They get comments from those around them, like,

2514
02:04:10,640 --> 02:04:13,440
Speaker 1: what is the most common comment someone would say if

2515
02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:16,120
Speaker 1: someone's been on this journey of growth? There's two words,

2516
02:04:16,640 --> 02:04:17,760
Speaker 1: any ideas.

2517
02:04:17,920 --> 02:04:19,440
Speaker 2: If they've been on your journey of.

2518
02:04:19,520 --> 02:04:21,400
Speaker 1: Any journey of growth, not only are it can be

2519
02:04:21,440 --> 02:04:23,520
Speaker 1: on any journey of personal development growth.

2520
02:04:23,640 --> 02:04:25,720
Speaker 2: And what would they say to describe that journey?

2521
02:04:25,760 --> 02:04:29,480
Speaker 1: Well, what other people say to them is usually you've changed.

2522
02:04:29,720 --> 02:04:31,960
Speaker 1: And when they say you've changed, it's generally not coming

2523
02:04:31,960 --> 02:04:34,200
Speaker 1: from a positive, supportive plas. Yes, it's coming from a

2524
02:04:34,240 --> 02:04:36,880
Speaker 1: place of I don't like how you're outshining me right now,

2525
02:04:37,120 --> 02:04:39,360
Speaker 1: you're no longer in this mold that I have for you,

2526
02:04:39,920 --> 02:04:44,640
Speaker 1: and it's making me uncomfortable. Never allow someone else's discomfort

2527
02:04:44,680 --> 02:04:47,400
Speaker 1: to prevent you from going on your journey. Those who

2528
02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:48,960
Speaker 1: are meant to be with you on the journey will

2529
02:04:49,000 --> 02:04:51,000
Speaker 1: join you on the journey. And this is really hard

2530
02:04:51,040 --> 02:04:54,840
Speaker 1: when it's family or loved ones or close friends. The

2531
02:04:54,880 --> 02:04:58,200
Speaker 1: best response in that moment, rather than allowing it to

2532
02:04:58,280 --> 02:05:00,600
Speaker 1: undermine your sense of self trust and doubt your choices,

2533
02:05:01,400 --> 02:05:05,920
Speaker 1: is two words aunt. Really three words, thanks for noticing,

2534
02:05:07,040 --> 02:05:09,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for noticing growth has been a priority for me.

2535
02:05:10,720 --> 02:05:13,560
Speaker 1: That's awesome that it's working. You flip something that would

2536
02:05:13,560 --> 02:05:16,840
Speaker 1: otherwise be a negative into an absolute positive, which does

2537
02:05:16,840 --> 02:05:18,640
Speaker 1: two things. It makes you feel really good about it,

2538
02:05:18,920 --> 02:05:22,800
Speaker 1: but also from their perspective, it suddenly flips them to think, oh,

2539
02:05:23,200 --> 02:05:25,320
Speaker 1: maybe I can do that too. Growth has been a

2540
02:05:25,320 --> 02:05:28,640
Speaker 1: priority for her, Maybe I can make growth my priority.

2541
02:05:28,680 --> 02:05:31,000
Speaker 1: And it opens them up. It almost gives them permission

2542
02:05:31,000 --> 02:05:33,240
Speaker 1: to do the same. So when someone says you've changed,

2543
02:05:33,720 --> 02:05:35,840
Speaker 1: respond with thanks for noticing.

2544
02:05:35,840 --> 02:05:38,240
Speaker 2: I love. That's powerful, isn't it. It's such a great

2545
02:05:38,240 --> 02:05:41,280
Speaker 2: response because it's also showing that you see as a

2546
02:05:41,320 --> 02:05:44,280
Speaker 2: positive rather than most of us. I think also, when

2547
02:05:44,600 --> 02:05:48,680
Speaker 2: when you're in your growth journey, your initial reaction is also,

2548
02:05:48,840 --> 02:05:50,240
Speaker 2: what do you mean, why is there a bad thing? No,

2549
02:05:50,280 --> 02:05:52,800
Speaker 2: I'm the same person because you're still trying to you're

2550
02:05:52,840 --> 02:05:55,040
Speaker 2: still trying to grapple with it, and you're still trying

2551
02:05:55,040 --> 02:05:56,720
Speaker 2: to fit and grow at the same time. Whereas when

2552
02:05:56,760 --> 02:05:58,760
Speaker 2: you are, when you're fully grown, you won't care and

2553
02:05:58,800 --> 02:06:01,320
Speaker 2: you'll be like, oh, okay, cool, like thank you, you know,

2554
02:06:01,360 --> 02:06:04,680
Speaker 2: thanks for noticing, and so yeah, no, I love that response.

2555
02:06:04,720 --> 02:06:08,320
Speaker 2: It's brilliant and and you're spot on that. I think.

2556
02:06:08,360 --> 02:06:11,680
Speaker 2: Also half the time, there's a there's a brilliant piece

2557
02:06:11,720 --> 02:06:16,360
Speaker 2: of wisdom called Handlan's Razor m and it says Handlon says,

2558
02:06:16,960 --> 02:06:21,440
Speaker 2: don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by

2559
02:06:21,520 --> 02:06:25,280
Speaker 2: ignorance or stupidity. Beautiful And it's one of my favorite

2560
02:06:25,320 --> 02:06:27,000
Speaker 2: freeing I'm writing about in my book right now. It's

2561
02:06:27,000 --> 02:06:29,600
Speaker 2: one of my most freeing things I've come across, because

2562
02:06:30,080 --> 02:06:33,520
Speaker 2: our mind has this thing to turn everything everyone says

2563
02:06:33,560 --> 02:06:36,240
Speaker 2: to us into malice. And that person literally said it

2564
02:06:36,240 --> 02:06:38,640
Speaker 2: as a passing comment. They kind of thought of it

2565
02:06:38,680 --> 02:06:42,000
Speaker 2: for two minutes. They said something, but it wasn't that deep.

2566
02:06:42,120 --> 02:06:44,640
Speaker 2: They're not obsessing over it. But we take care as like,

2567
02:06:44,720 --> 02:06:46,840
Speaker 2: oh my god, they think I've changed, and they don't.

2568
02:06:47,080 --> 02:06:48,520
Speaker 2: They hate who have become.

2569
02:06:48,480 --> 02:06:50,560
Speaker 1: Especially if we struggle with big trust on any of

2570
02:06:50,560 --> 02:06:51,640
Speaker 1: these elements totally.

2571
02:06:51,680 --> 02:06:54,600
Speaker 2: And the truth is, it's not malice. It's just someone's ignorance.

2572
02:06:55,240 --> 02:06:57,480
Speaker 2: But it is someone's lack of time, it's someone's lack

2573
02:06:57,520 --> 02:07:01,600
Speaker 2: of capacity, it's someone's basiness, and it's you know. And

2574
02:07:01,840 --> 02:07:04,640
Speaker 2: it's funny because it's almost like when we say you've

2575
02:07:04,680 --> 02:07:06,720
Speaker 2: changed to someone, we think we have good intentions and

2576
02:07:06,720 --> 02:07:08,800
Speaker 2: when someone says it to us, you know, so it

2577
02:07:08,840 --> 02:07:11,040
Speaker 2: comes with that. So I love that, thanks for noticing,

2578
02:07:11,080 --> 02:07:13,320
Speaker 2: because it doesn't come from a place of revenge. It

2579
02:07:13,360 --> 02:07:16,360
Speaker 2: doesn't come a place from improving yourself. It doesn't come

2580
02:07:16,560 --> 02:07:19,280
Speaker 2: because otherwise we're like I've changed. Oh no, no, I'm

2581
02:07:19,280 --> 02:07:20,880
Speaker 2: still it's same. I'll prove it to you, like let's

2582
02:07:20,960 --> 02:07:22,720
Speaker 2: let's go back out to the party or whatever. And

2583
02:07:22,760 --> 02:07:24,680
Speaker 2: it's like, no, I don't want to do that anymore.

2584
02:07:24,680 --> 02:07:28,200
Speaker 2: And so I love thanks for noticing because it isn't revenge.

2585
02:07:28,200 --> 02:07:31,120
Speaker 2: It isn't proving yourself, It isn't validation, it isn't tell

2586
02:07:31,160 --> 02:07:35,520
Speaker 2: me how, it's not looking for praise and approval. It's brilliant.

2587
02:07:35,640 --> 02:07:38,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. I love how you mentioned Handland's razor.

2588
02:07:38,360 --> 02:07:41,120
Speaker 1: Have you heard of Wisiati. Dan Karniment so.

2589
02:07:44,600 --> 02:07:44,840
Speaker 2: Great.

2590
02:07:45,480 --> 02:07:48,680
Speaker 1: So he's brilliant. His work is so phenomenal and something

2591
02:07:48,680 --> 02:07:51,360
Speaker 1: that fundamentally changed my life, and I think if you

2592
02:07:51,400 --> 02:07:54,280
Speaker 1: can also grasp this idea, it will fundamentally change your life.

2593
02:07:54,280 --> 02:07:56,560
Speaker 1: It's very similar to hands Handlands Razor, but just a

2594
02:07:56,560 --> 02:08:00,880
Speaker 1: little bit broader. Wisiati is an abbreviation for or an

2595
02:08:00,880 --> 02:08:04,760
Speaker 1: acronym for what you see is all there is. And

2596
02:08:04,840 --> 02:08:07,120
Speaker 1: what he was describing in his book Thinking Fast and

2597
02:08:07,160 --> 02:08:09,720
Speaker 1: Slow is that when we have an interaction with someone,

2598
02:08:10,480 --> 02:08:13,680
Speaker 1: we will draw conclusions about that person and that situation

2599
02:08:13,760 --> 02:08:16,880
Speaker 1: from that two second interaction because what we see is

2600
02:08:16,920 --> 02:08:20,120
Speaker 1: all there is in that environment. But actually there is

2601
02:08:20,160 --> 02:08:23,040
Speaker 1: so much more that led to that situation. Maybe that

2602
02:08:23,080 --> 02:08:25,480
Speaker 1: person was having a really bad day. Maybe that person's

2603
02:08:25,560 --> 02:08:28,000
Speaker 1: relationship just broke down and you're meeting them right at

2604
02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:31,440
Speaker 1: that point. Maybe they're in pain, and yet we have

2605
02:08:31,520 --> 02:08:35,120
Speaker 1: this one second, two second, one minute interaction. Our brain

2606
02:08:35,160 --> 02:08:37,400
Speaker 1: goes into what you see as all there is, and

2607
02:08:37,440 --> 02:08:39,920
Speaker 1: you forget that there's so much else, and this leads

2608
02:08:39,960 --> 02:08:42,520
Speaker 1: to what's called fundamental attribution error. Okay, so Jay, when

2609
02:08:42,520 --> 02:08:44,400
Speaker 1: you're driving on the street and someone cuts you off,

2610
02:08:45,040 --> 02:08:47,600
Speaker 1: do you usually have certain feelings towards that person who

2611
02:08:47,600 --> 02:08:50,120
Speaker 1: cut you off? Of course, right, and you make certain

2612
02:08:50,720 --> 02:08:55,000
Speaker 1: assumptions about their personality Oh my gosh, careless, ignorant, blah blah.

2613
02:08:55,600 --> 02:08:58,560
Speaker 1: That's called fundamental attribution error because if you accidentally cut

2614
02:08:58,560 --> 02:08:59,320
Speaker 1: someone off.

2615
02:08:59,160 --> 02:09:03,400
Speaker 2: Totally, Oh, I wasn't even paying friends, struggling like I'm

2616
02:09:03,400 --> 02:09:04,000
Speaker 2: trying to help.

2617
02:09:04,400 --> 02:09:06,200
Speaker 1: So that idea of someone cutting you off. What you

2618
02:09:06,200 --> 02:09:08,200
Speaker 1: see is all there is, that must be your reflection

2619
02:09:08,280 --> 02:09:12,040
Speaker 1: of their attributes and character and personality. But what Kardoman

2620
02:09:12,120 --> 02:09:14,360
Speaker 1: encourages us to do, which is similar to Hanlin's razor,

2621
02:09:14,800 --> 02:09:17,160
Speaker 1: is get a broader picture what else could have been

2622
02:09:17,160 --> 02:09:18,960
Speaker 1: going on for this person? And I love it when

2623
02:09:19,000 --> 02:09:21,800
Speaker 1: you're driving because I tend to get I don't get

2624
02:09:21,880 --> 02:09:25,200
Speaker 1: road rage, not at all, but I do find sometimes

2625
02:09:25,240 --> 02:09:27,000
Speaker 1: if there's a lot of traffic and I'm in a rush,

2626
02:09:27,160 --> 02:09:28,680
Speaker 1: I tend to get into the what you see is

2627
02:09:28,680 --> 02:09:31,960
Speaker 1: all there is, So if someone's rushing or speeding, I

2628
02:09:32,000 --> 02:09:33,480
Speaker 1: will go through and think, Okay, what are the three

2629
02:09:33,480 --> 02:09:35,440
Speaker 1: things that could be happening for this person. Maybe they're

2630
02:09:35,480 --> 02:09:37,760
Speaker 1: busting to use the toilet, or their wife has just

2631
02:09:37,800 --> 02:09:41,160
Speaker 1: gone into labor, or they've just heard that their kid's

2632
02:09:41,160 --> 02:09:44,600
Speaker 1: been You don't know right. And it's beautiful because it

2633
02:09:44,720 --> 02:09:46,839
Speaker 1: just reminds you that you're not the center of the universe.

2634
02:09:46,920 --> 02:09:49,880
Speaker 1: It feels like you are, but you're not. And when

2635
02:09:49,920 --> 02:09:52,320
Speaker 1: you realize that you're not, it gives you this sense

2636
02:09:52,360 --> 02:09:54,800
Speaker 1: of I find it very empowering to know that we're

2637
02:09:54,800 --> 02:09:57,920
Speaker 1: actually part of something much bigger than just us and

2638
02:09:58,000 --> 02:09:58,320
Speaker 1: I me.

2639
02:09:58,360 --> 02:10:02,840
Speaker 2: My absolutely, I love it. Okay, have it. Question number three,

2640
02:10:03,600 --> 02:10:06,760
Speaker 2: what is a line of self talk that you used

2641
02:10:06,800 --> 02:10:08,520
Speaker 2: most often for yourself?

2642
02:10:08,960 --> 02:10:09,960
Speaker 1: Care less, care more?

2643
02:10:10,360 --> 02:10:10,560
Speaker 3: Oh?

2644
02:10:10,560 --> 02:10:11,560
Speaker 2: Okay, explain? Okay.

2645
02:10:11,640 --> 02:10:15,600
Speaker 1: So we post content and we have since twenty twenty,

2646
02:10:15,960 --> 02:10:18,800
Speaker 1: basically during the pandemic we started and I still find

2647
02:10:18,840 --> 02:10:20,440
Speaker 1: so we do it ourselves. We don't have a team

2648
02:10:20,440 --> 02:10:22,320
Speaker 1: that does our posting. It's something we're happy to do

2649
02:10:22,400 --> 02:10:25,520
Speaker 1: because we like the process of being connected. Every time

2650
02:10:25,520 --> 02:10:27,800
Speaker 1: I'm about to post something, I have a voice in

2651
02:10:27,800 --> 02:10:29,400
Speaker 1: my head. What are people going to think? Are they

2652
02:10:29,400 --> 02:10:31,160
Speaker 1: going to like this? They're going to think you're silly,

2653
02:10:31,360 --> 02:10:34,720
Speaker 1: You're not articulate enough, You're not credible enough. I literally

2654
02:10:34,760 --> 02:10:37,680
Speaker 1: have to say to myself, careless, care less about what

2655
02:10:37,720 --> 02:10:40,040
Speaker 1: people think. And so I used to just do the

2656
02:10:40,040 --> 02:10:42,960
Speaker 1: careless and that was helpful. But then Faisil, my husband

2657
02:10:43,080 --> 02:10:45,640
Speaker 1: and business partner, he said, Okay, it's great that you've

2658
02:10:45,680 --> 02:10:47,600
Speaker 1: got the careless, but what are you caring more about?

2659
02:10:47,800 --> 02:10:48,520
Speaker 2: Ah? So good.

2660
02:10:48,840 --> 02:10:51,000
Speaker 1: Don't just focus on what you you know, the kind

2661
02:10:51,000 --> 02:10:53,040
Speaker 1: of negative. Oh I'm going to care less? What are

2662
02:10:53,080 --> 02:10:55,560
Speaker 1: you focusing more on? So now I say, okay, careless

2663
02:10:55,560 --> 02:10:58,080
Speaker 1: about what people think. Care more about being of service,

2664
02:10:58,400 --> 02:11:01,839
Speaker 1: being of value, being of impact, leaving a positive legacy.

2665
02:11:01,880 --> 02:11:03,960
Speaker 1: That's brilliant and it's beautiful, and it's something you can

2666
02:11:04,080 --> 02:11:06,360
Speaker 1: use in the moment when you're about to step onto stage,

2667
02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:08,440
Speaker 1: when you're about to approach a stranger in a bar,

2668
02:11:08,760 --> 02:11:12,480
Speaker 1: when you're about to have that conversation about your pay raise,

2669
02:11:13,360 --> 02:11:15,920
Speaker 1: care less about the outcome, care more about making this

2670
02:11:15,920 --> 02:11:19,680
Speaker 1: person feel seen or demonstrating my value. It's beautiful and

2671
02:11:19,720 --> 02:11:20,240
Speaker 1: so simple.

2672
02:11:20,400 --> 02:11:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I also love it because it's

2673
02:11:23,040 --> 02:11:26,120
Speaker 2: the careless part makes sense. And also one thing I

2674
02:11:26,160 --> 02:11:28,560
Speaker 2: realized over time was also caring more about the people

2675
02:11:28,560 --> 02:11:32,920
Speaker 2: who left qualitative positive feedback. Oh yeah, and learning to

2676
02:11:32,920 --> 02:11:35,280
Speaker 2: actually care more because it's so easy to skip past

2677
02:11:35,320 --> 02:11:38,560
Speaker 2: beautiful comments where everyone's like, you are so articulate, Shahday,

2678
02:11:39,000 --> 02:11:42,400
Speaker 2: you are so credible, Shade, you are so non re

2679
02:11:42,480 --> 02:11:44,960
Speaker 2: ignore it and you kind of just go, yeah, whatever, whatever, whatever,

2680
02:11:45,360 --> 02:11:48,600
Speaker 2: And that care more careless works well there too. I'm

2681
02:11:48,600 --> 02:11:50,200
Speaker 2: not saying only to care about things when people say

2682
02:11:50,240 --> 02:11:52,520
Speaker 2: nice things about you. I think it's important to be

2683
02:11:52,560 --> 02:11:56,920
Speaker 2: able to listen to criticism and negativity and feedback, and

2684
02:11:57,000 --> 02:11:59,680
Speaker 2: of course but I think the idea of we don't.

2685
02:12:00,920 --> 02:12:05,320
Speaker 2: We don't receive praise with nearly as much depth as

2686
02:12:05,360 --> 02:12:09,640
Speaker 2: we receive criticism now, and that is a huge issue

2687
02:12:09,680 --> 02:12:12,000
Speaker 2: for us as humans, where we don't know how to

2688
02:12:12,040 --> 02:12:13,960
Speaker 2: receive a compliment, We don't know how to receive a

2689
02:12:13,960 --> 02:12:16,760
Speaker 2: pattern the back. But if someone says I'm a negative

2690
02:12:16,760 --> 02:12:18,240
Speaker 2: to us, we know how to receive that. We will

2691
02:12:18,280 --> 02:12:20,040
Speaker 2: hold on to that for the rest of our lives

2692
02:12:20,280 --> 02:12:23,440
Speaker 2: and carry around wherever you know. Why, yeah, God, because.

2693
02:12:23,240 --> 02:12:26,000
Speaker 1: Of the scars that we carry. So when someone is

2694
02:12:26,000 --> 02:12:28,360
Speaker 1: giving you praise, it's because your self image doesn't feel

2695
02:12:28,360 --> 02:12:31,080
Speaker 1: it deserves it, and so it doesn't internalize it. But

2696
02:12:31,160 --> 02:12:35,160
Speaker 1: when someone criticizes you, criticism only hurts if you deeply,

2697
02:12:35,440 --> 02:12:38,840
Speaker 1: deep down, believe that about yourself. And it all comes

2698
02:12:38,840 --> 02:12:41,480
Speaker 1: down to where you are on these poor pillars. So

2699
02:12:41,640 --> 02:12:45,320
Speaker 1: if you receive criticism and you take it personally, it's

2700
02:12:45,320 --> 02:12:48,240
Speaker 1: often because you have a low level of acceptance and

2701
02:12:48,280 --> 02:12:50,600
Speaker 1: deep down you don't feel that you're worthy. You're trying

2702
02:12:50,640 --> 02:12:53,840
Speaker 1: to appear a certain way or prove something, and so

2703
02:12:53,960 --> 02:12:57,040
Speaker 1: what that person says hurts so much because it is

2704
02:12:57,800 --> 02:13:00,640
Speaker 1: cutting it that deep wound that you have and so

2705
02:13:00,720 --> 02:13:02,760
Speaker 1: again it's this idea of yes, as you say, how

2706
02:13:02,760 --> 02:13:04,800
Speaker 1: do we acknowledge more of the positive things that come

2707
02:13:04,800 --> 02:13:08,760
Speaker 1: through and use that to reshape our identity, reshape our

2708
02:13:08,760 --> 02:13:09,400
Speaker 1: self image.

2709
02:13:09,640 --> 02:13:13,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, I love that that scar research you shared

2710
02:13:13,800 --> 02:13:14,160
Speaker 2: at the beginning.

2711
02:13:14,240 --> 02:13:14,879
Speaker 1: Isn't it fascinating?

2712
02:13:15,040 --> 02:13:18,400
Speaker 2: It's so good question of before? How do you define

2713
02:13:18,400 --> 02:13:19,280
Speaker 2: your current purpose?

2714
02:13:20,240 --> 02:13:22,800
Speaker 1: Someone once asked me what is the one word I

2715
02:13:22,800 --> 02:13:26,080
Speaker 1: want people to say about me at my funeral? And

2716
02:13:26,120 --> 02:13:31,040
Speaker 1: without thinking I said that she cared. And then I

2717
02:13:31,080 --> 02:13:32,800
Speaker 1: thought about it a bit more, and I probably would

2718
02:13:32,800 --> 02:13:34,000
Speaker 1: have had all these other things, But I think the

2719
02:13:34,040 --> 02:13:37,200
Speaker 1: fact that that came through so clearly for me when

2720
02:13:37,200 --> 02:13:39,840
Speaker 1: I didn't think about it. My purpose is to live

2721
02:13:39,880 --> 02:13:42,480
Speaker 1: a life where I'm caring about other people, and that

2722
02:13:42,520 --> 02:13:44,840
Speaker 1: looks like me being present for them, me serving them

2723
02:13:44,880 --> 02:13:47,240
Speaker 1: through the work that we do, helping them through our programs,

2724
02:13:47,280 --> 02:13:50,560
Speaker 1: through this book. It's fundamentally because I care about people

2725
02:13:51,080 --> 02:13:54,280
Speaker 1: overcoming what is holding them back, and I care about

2726
02:13:54,320 --> 02:13:58,720
Speaker 1: them living fulfilling and successful and meaningful lives, and so

2727
02:13:58,840 --> 02:14:01,720
Speaker 1: everything I do is aligned by that. What about you, Jay,

2728
02:14:01,920 --> 02:14:04,600
Speaker 1: what's that? How would you define your purpose in just

2729
02:14:04,640 --> 02:14:05,240
Speaker 1: a few words?

2730
02:14:05,440 --> 02:14:07,840
Speaker 2: The way I've chosen to describe it right now is

2731
02:14:07,880 --> 02:14:12,040
Speaker 2: that to make the world happier, healthier, and more healed beautiful.

2732
02:14:12,040 --> 02:14:13,960
Speaker 2: And the word that I've really lean to in all

2733
02:14:14,000 --> 02:14:17,000
Speaker 2: of those is healing. I value healing more than happiness

2734
02:14:17,160 --> 02:14:20,960
Speaker 2: and health I do value equally as healing. But I

2735
02:14:21,000 --> 02:14:23,560
Speaker 2: think even in our health, we're always healing, and so

2736
02:14:23,640 --> 02:14:26,600
Speaker 2: I think the challenge is, my take is everyone's hurt

2737
02:14:26,800 --> 02:14:31,520
Speaker 2: in some way physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and everyone's healing.

2738
02:14:31,640 --> 02:14:33,960
Speaker 2: And so if we can help create a more healed world,

2739
02:14:35,200 --> 02:14:38,160
Speaker 2: a healing world actually even more than healed, because healed

2740
02:14:38,240 --> 02:14:41,800
Speaker 2: means it's done, and so a healing world is a

2741
02:14:41,840 --> 02:14:44,800
Speaker 2: good world. And so if we can, if I can help,

2742
02:14:44,880 --> 02:14:47,440
Speaker 2: if I can be useful in and of service to

2743
02:14:48,440 --> 02:14:52,600
Speaker 2: helping people heal in whichever area they're struggling in through

2744
02:14:52,680 --> 02:14:55,440
Speaker 2: people like yourselves and the wonderful experts and people come

2745
02:14:55,520 --> 02:14:58,080
Speaker 2: and share their stories on the show, then that, to

2746
02:14:58,120 --> 02:14:59,440
Speaker 2: me is the world that I want to live in,

2747
02:14:59,520 --> 02:15:02,600
Speaker 2: is a world is healing always because we're always going

2748
02:15:02,680 --> 02:15:05,040
Speaker 2: to feel pain and always going to get hurt, so

2749
02:15:05,080 --> 02:15:07,520
Speaker 2: then there has to be an equal focus on healing.

2750
02:15:07,760 --> 02:15:10,200
Speaker 1: It's beautiful and I love it that it almost going

2751
02:15:10,240 --> 02:15:12,320
Speaker 1: back to the idea of the scar. It's like also

2752
02:15:12,360 --> 02:15:13,560
Speaker 1: healing the scars that we have.

2753
02:15:13,760 --> 02:15:15,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's healing, and it's that's what you're gonna have

2754
02:15:15,960 --> 02:15:19,320
Speaker 2: to do, because yeah, you're healing yourself image according to

2755
02:15:20,040 --> 02:15:21,400
Speaker 2: you know what you were saying earlier.

2756
02:15:21,480 --> 02:15:22,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, beautiful.

2757
02:15:22,760 --> 02:15:24,000
Speaker 2: Fifth and final question were.

2758
02:15:23,880 --> 02:15:24,960
Speaker 1: I kind of don't want you to ask it because

2759
02:15:24,960 --> 02:15:25,720
Speaker 1: I don't want this to end.

2760
02:15:27,080 --> 02:15:31,120
Speaker 2: For another three hours. This is the fifth and final question.

2761
02:15:33,120 --> 02:15:35,880
Speaker 2: If you could create one law, and we asked this

2762
02:15:35,960 --> 02:15:37,680
Speaker 2: every guest who's ever been on the show, if you

2763
02:15:37,720 --> 02:15:40,440
Speaker 2: could create one law that everyone in the world had

2764
02:15:40,480 --> 02:15:41,840
Speaker 2: to follow, what would it be?

2765
02:15:42,840 --> 02:15:45,040
Speaker 1: It would be to leave each person better than you

2766
02:15:45,120 --> 02:15:47,880
Speaker 1: found them.

2767
02:15:48,000 --> 02:15:49,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good law.

2768
02:15:50,240 --> 02:15:54,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, each place, each person, each each animal, each meeting,

2769
02:15:54,520 --> 02:15:57,240
Speaker 3: each em each Yeah, it would be so much better.

2770
02:15:57,320 --> 02:15:59,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful. We've never had down

2771
02:15:59,600 --> 02:16:03,040
Speaker 2: the show. Shutz, thank you so much. Today. The book

2772
02:16:03,160 --> 02:16:06,040
Speaker 2: is called Big Trust, rewire self doubt, Find your confidence

2773
02:16:06,080 --> 02:16:09,720
Speaker 2: and Fuel success. Pre audio copy right now. Follow Shade

2774
02:16:09,840 --> 02:16:13,000
Speaker 2: on Instagram, TikTok, across all of social media. If you

2775
02:16:13,040 --> 02:16:16,320
Speaker 2: don't already, you're gonna absolutely love her content. She's as

2776
02:16:16,440 --> 02:16:19,720
Speaker 2: articulate online and offline. I can't wait for you to

2777
02:16:19,720 --> 02:16:21,600
Speaker 2: read this book. I can't wait for you to practice

2778
02:16:21,600 --> 02:16:25,200
Speaker 2: these principles. It truly is a masterclass. And shut in.

2779
02:16:25,280 --> 02:16:27,160
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful to you, so thankful that we've got

2780
02:16:27,200 --> 02:16:28,160
Speaker 2: to spend this time together.

2781
02:16:28,320 --> 02:16:28,560
Speaker 3: Thank you.

2782
02:16:29,080 --> 02:16:30,640
Speaker 2: I hope this is the first of many times you'll

2783
02:16:30,680 --> 02:16:31,200
Speaker 2: come on the show.

2784
02:16:31,320 --> 02:16:32,920
Speaker 1: I hope so, I hope, so thank you. It's been

2785
02:16:32,959 --> 02:16:33,560
Speaker 1: such a treat.

2786
02:16:33,720 --> 02:16:36,360
Speaker 2: Thank you. If you love this episode, you love my

2787
02:16:36,480 --> 02:16:41,720
Speaker 2: conversation with doctor Joe Dispenser on why stressing overthinking negatively

2788
02:16:41,760 --> 02:16:44,600
Speaker 2: impacts your brain and heart and how to change your

2789
02:16:44,640 --> 02:16:48,320
Speaker 2: habits that are on autopilot. Listen to it right now.

2790
02:16:48,520 --> 02:16:51,840
Speaker 4: How many times do we have to forget until we

2791
02:16:51,920 --> 02:16:54,959
Speaker 4: stop forgetting and start remembering. That's the moment of change.

2792
02:16:55,080 --> 02:16:57,480
Speaker 4: Who cares how many times you fell off the bicycle?

2793
02:16:57,520 --> 02:16:59,680
Speaker 4: If you ride the bicycle, Now you ride the bike.