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Speaker 1: Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan. You spent your entire life

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Speaker 1: educating children, and I don't mean in a normal classroom.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about in the library, servicing children for maybe

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Speaker 1: a couple of decades, where you're teaching them how to read,

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Speaker 1: one of the most basic things in the world. You're

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Speaker 1: beloved in the school, and not just in the school,

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Speaker 1: but in the community at large. And suddenly one morning

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Speaker 1: your husband wakes up and find you dead in the

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Speaker 1: bed next to him, and you're only forty nine years old.

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Speaker 1: Today we're gonna talk about the Tammy Day Bell case.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this his body backs back

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Speaker 1: with me again. Today is my good friend Jackie Howard,

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Speaker 1: executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie, what

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Speaker 1: can you tell us about the Tammy Day Bell case? Joe?

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Speaker 1: The death of Tammy Daybell came seemingly out of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: In fact, in everyday life, Tammy Day Bell was a

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Speaker 1: healthy individual. In fact, she was training for a five

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Speaker 1: k race. Yet her husband, Chad Dave Bell, woke up

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Speaker 1: called nine one saying that his wife was dead in

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Speaker 1: the bed next to him. No autopsy was done, no

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Speaker 1: talk screen was done, nothing was done by the investigative

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Speaker 1: team other than to say that Tammy Daybell was dead.

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Speaker 1: You know, one of the basic guiding principles in any

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Speaker 1: medical legal death investigation, Jackie, is that when someone is

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Speaker 1: actually found decease, that is someone that doesn't just you

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Speaker 1: know how people term it sometimes keel over dead, you

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Speaker 1: need to have a representative of the corner the medical

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Speaker 1: legal community, the corner of the medical examiner to show

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Speaker 1: up on the scene. And the reason is is that

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Speaker 1: you get one shot at this. When I teach my classes,

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Speaker 1: I talk about you can only enter a room for

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Speaker 1: the very first time. That is, you can only cross

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Speaker 1: that threshold one time. After that that moment's gone, and

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Speaker 1: those things that you decide to do at that moment

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Speaker 1: time are critical. And in Tammy Daybell's case, there's a

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Speaker 1: thread that runs through the entire thing, the family, even

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Speaker 1: the corner, the police that were in the scene that

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Speaker 1: kept using the term appears to be consistent with the

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Speaker 1: natural death. And when that's put forward, you have to

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Speaker 1: ask this question, Jackie, how did the corner come to

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Speaker 1: that conclusion? How did this corner come to the conclusion

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Speaker 1: that tammy Day Belle's death was a natural death, because

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Speaker 1: once you say that, once you say that this is

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Speaker 1: a natural death, that convinces the family that you know,

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Speaker 1: there's no need to go any further. But you have

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Speaker 1: to have an answer for that. You have to be

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Speaker 1: able to fill out a death certificate. Where are you

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Speaker 1: going to put down suddenly died God called an end

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Speaker 1: of life. Now you have to have substance for reasons.

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Speaker 1: And the reason this is so important is that Tammy

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Speaker 1: David was only forty nine years of age, Jackie, Like

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Speaker 1: you said, she was training to run in a race.

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Speaker 1: And if you can do that, then that means that

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Speaker 1: more than likely you're not having some kind of cardiac

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Speaker 1: event that's ongoing. Because you know, the number one killer

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Speaker 1: in America is actually a cause of death, is actually

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Speaker 1: related to cardiac disease. There's no indication of that whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: And from what we're hearing what we're hearing, the only

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Speaker 1: official that actually showed up at the scene of her

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Speaker 1: death were members of the local sheriff's office, and they said,

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Speaker 1: These deputies said, well, it appears to be consistent with

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Speaker 1: the natural death. Well, you know, my question to that is,

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Speaker 1: how can a deputy sheriff in this tiny little community

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Speaker 1: look at a body, not know anything about the medical

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Speaker 1: history of this individual, and say, well, everything appears to

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Speaker 1: be consistent with the natural death. Did this individual have

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Speaker 1: some kind of special insight? No, they didn't. They worked

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Speaker 1: upon an assumption and then the base law the basics

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Speaker 1: of this the corner violet. They didn't even show up

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Speaker 1: to the scene from what we're hearing, And it's just important.

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Speaker 1: And this is why. First off, you've got this woman

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Speaker 1: that has died in her sleep. You have no good reason,

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Speaker 1: at least scientific reason to hang your hat on at

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Speaker 1: this moment time, and you're just going to release her

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Speaker 1: directly from the scene. And one of the most important

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Speaker 1: things about conducting a death investigation from the perspective of

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Speaker 1: the corners, you have to see that body in context.

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Speaker 1: So what does that mean. I want to see the

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Speaker 1: body on the bed where they were found. I want

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Speaker 1: to see the body on the floor if that's where

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Speaker 1: they're found, adjacent to the bed. Is there something that

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Speaker 1: happened during the night when no one else was witnessing

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Speaker 1: this event that could give me clues as a trained

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Speaker 1: medical legal death investigator, as to what brought about the

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Speaker 1: end of her life, and you know, was there some

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Speaker 1: kind of trauma that was sustained. Was there blood on

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Speaker 1: the pillow? Will never know that. But beside that, we've

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Speaker 1: got another issue. We don't know what the post mortem

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Speaker 1: interval is. And that's one of the things that we

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Speaker 1: do that's critical. Okay, you just threw one out at

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Speaker 1: mean post mortem interval? What the hey? Well with post

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Speaker 1: mortem interval, Jackie. What that means is when we're talking

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Speaker 1: about we've got three areas that we deal in in

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Speaker 1: medical legal death death investigation. We talk about anti mortem,

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Speaker 1: which think of a like an anti chamber in a pyramid.

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Speaker 1: That means the precursor. That's going to mean anti mortem

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Speaker 1: before death. And then we have an event that's called perimortem,

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Speaker 1: which kind of means in the throws up. That's like

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Speaker 1: in the midst of the fatal event. You're not quite

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Speaker 1: dead yet, but you're in that kind of lingering mode.

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Speaker 1: There say, an individual that is bleeding out, that has

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Speaker 1: sustained a gunshot wound. And then you have post mortem. Well,

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Speaker 1: post mortem means that period of time from when your

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Speaker 1: heart ceased beating until the moment in time when you're

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Speaker 1: finally discovered by the authorities, and so we have to

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Speaker 1: be able to measure that. And the way that we

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Speaker 1: measure that is examining the body by determining post mortem temperature,

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Speaker 1: that is, how cool or warm the body is to

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Speaker 1: the touch. And also we can use thermometer to facilitate

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Speaker 1: that because what we know is the body once your

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Speaker 1: heart stops beating, you begin to bleed energy out until

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Speaker 1: like the twelfth hour after death, and after that all

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Speaker 1: of the energy and the heat that your body is

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Speaker 1: generated is gone. And at that point you are just

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Speaker 1: like any other element of a room, say, for instance,

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Speaker 1: a piece of furniture, the bed. You're impacted directly by

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Speaker 1: the environmental temperature. That means your temperature or your body's

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Speaker 1: going to rise and fall just like it would on

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Speaker 1: a chair or end table or something like that. And

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Speaker 1: then after that we have to do an assessment on

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Speaker 1: the rider mortis that is the stiffness in the body,

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Speaker 1: how stiff is a body, And that's done at a

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Speaker 1: measured interval, you know, And it starts in the small

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Speaker 1: muscles of the face and then it extends out to

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Speaker 1: the peripheral areas like the legs and the elbows and

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Speaker 1: all these sorts of things. It kind of starts at

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Speaker 1: the same time and all the muscle groups, but you

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Speaker 1: first appreciate it in the smaller muscles. And then we

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Speaker 1: talk about stuff like post mortem leavidity or the settling

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Speaker 1: of blood. You and I have talked about that a lot, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: and that again happens at a measured interval. None of

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Speaker 1: this stuff was done so at the end of the

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Speaker 1: day when you're doing a scene assessment on the body.

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Speaker 1: And in this particular case and Tammy day Bell's case,

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Speaker 1: guess what, we got a big fat donut here. There's

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Speaker 1: no data. There's no data whatsoever, no scientific data to

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Speaker 1: back this up so that we can make a determination

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Speaker 1: as to how long this individual has been dead the

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Speaker 1: context in which their body was found. Now, one very

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Speaker 1: interesting piece of this is that Tammy's kids, they were

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Speaker 1: in attendance. What we're hearing is that the children actually

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Speaker 1: came to the home after they had been notified that

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Speaker 1: their mom had passed on. And one little comment really

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Speaker 1: caught my ear in the midst of all of this.

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Speaker 1: One of the children at that point time is reported

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Speaker 1: to have said that Tammy had something coming out of

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Speaker 1: her nose, potentially out of her mouth, and it sounded

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Speaker 1: to me, Jackie, like what we refer to as a

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Speaker 1: frothy ademitus cone. Well, you're throwing those big ones out.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean. Well, anytime we see this kind

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Speaker 1: of if people just agin almost like the head of

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Speaker 1: a beer, if you will, you know how when you

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Speaker 1: pour beer too fast and that foam kind of creeps

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Speaker 1: up to the top, it's froth You've heard that term before.

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Speaker 1: Horses get frothy when they run real fast. But this

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Speaker 1: can happen in the midst of a fatal event in

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Speaker 1: which there is some type of respiratory distress that's going on, where,

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Speaker 1: for instance, individuals having trouble breathing. It can happen in

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Speaker 1: the event of some kind of direct asphyxial event, like

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Speaker 1: a suffocation or like a strangulation, smothering, that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: It can happen in certain cases relative to utilizing drugs.

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Speaker 1: We see it a lot in heroin overdose victims because

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Speaker 1: what we do know is that haroin, for instance, depresses

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Speaker 1: the respiratory system and so the lungs become very very heavy.

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Speaker 1: At that point in time, you're really struggling to breathing.

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Speaker 1: You know what, l what other area that you see

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Speaker 1: this in, Jackie. We actually see it in drowning victims

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Speaker 1: when we take a body out of a body of

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Speaker 1: water and pull them up on the bank of say

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Speaker 1: a lake or river. It's really kind of odd to

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Speaker 1: see this. But suddenly this frothiodemitist cone begins to emerge

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Speaker 1: from the nose in the mouth and it's almost kin

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Speaker 1: kind of a pink color to it, and that's again

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Speaker 1: an indication that something has compromised the respiratory system. And

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Speaker 1: in Tammy's case, I would want to go back and

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Speaker 1: take a look at this and say, well, my gosh,

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Speaker 1: what in the world would have impacted this forty nine

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Speaker 1: year old, healthy, beautiful, vibrant woman who's loved by all

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Speaker 1: of these folks, that doesn't have any kind of physical complaints,

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Speaker 1: no kind of medical history or anything like that. What

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Speaker 1: would have brought her to this end suddenly in her death?

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Speaker 1: And you know what, those answers could very well have

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Speaker 1: been buried with her, Jackie, Jackie, I got to say

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Speaker 1: that with Tammy's death, we've and I know it's cliche

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Speaker 1: to say this, but you know, at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, we've we've got far more questions and we

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Speaker 1: do answers and all because one simple action was not taken,

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Speaker 1: and that is somebody picking up their car keys, getting

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Speaker 1: in their car, and driving out to the scene of

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Speaker 1: her death. As the content area expert for that particular county,

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Speaker 1: and I'm talking about the corner you were reading my

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Speaker 1: mind joke as a cut a couple of specific questions here.

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Speaker 1: We know, Joe, as we've been talking about that the

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Speaker 1: coroner did not go to the scene. First off, there

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Speaker 1: is a difference between a corner and a medical examiner,

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Speaker 1: and in this county, Fremont County, it is a corner

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Speaker 1: that attends death. Not only does that raise questions that

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Speaker 1: she did not attend to the scene. Idaho does not

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Speaker 1: require autopsies. The family said no to an autopsy and

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Speaker 1: that was it. There's just so many questions there, Joe,

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Speaker 1: about how Tammy day Belle to hide. Yeah, there are.

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Speaker 1: And it's really amazing, Jackie, when you begin to think

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Speaker 1: about how the decision by one individual can impact multiple cases.

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Speaker 1: In as we well know, the day Belle saga that

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Speaker 1: goes on and on and on. There seems like their

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Speaker 1: bodies all over the place, and in my estimation, this

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Speaker 1: is one of certainly the most curious out of all

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Speaker 1: of them. And you're right, you are in that Idaho

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Speaker 1: is a corner state. That means that the official death investigator,

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Speaker 1: that is the medical legal death investigator also referred to

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Speaker 1: as the certifier of death for that county, is an

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Speaker 1: elected official. And there are many, many wonderful corners all

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Speaker 1: across this country. It is up to the corner at

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Speaker 1: that moment in time to make a decision about what

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Speaker 1: is going to be the disposition of the body. And

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Speaker 1: what I mean by that is, is the body going

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Speaker 1: to be released from the scene, nothing else is going

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Speaker 1: to be pursued, or is the body going to be

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Speaker 1: sent And in this case, the body Tammy Davel's body

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Speaker 1: would have been sent to the Ada County Coroner's office,

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Speaker 1: which is rather large county, which is where Boise is,

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Speaker 1: and that's where the autopsies are done. They kind of

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Speaker 1: the best way to say it is a subcontract to

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Speaker 1: do all of the autopsies for this little county, Fremont County.

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Speaker 1: That choice wasn't made. The former was made. They decided

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Speaker 1: the corner decided to release that body from the scene

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Speaker 1: and sent directly to the funeral home. And what they're

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Speaker 1: saying their default position is saying, well, the family didn't

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Speaker 1: want an autopsy. Well, let me break this down for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the family may not have wanted an autopsy, but at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, when you have a death

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Speaker 1: investigation involving a forty nine year old woman who you know,

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Speaker 1: let's face it, there are other mysterious events that are

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Speaker 1: going on around this body, it relies. It comes down

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Speaker 1: to this corner making that decision, and they are hard decisions.

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Speaker 1: That's why you get elected to this office to go

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Speaker 1: ahead and even if it doesn't abide by the wishes

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Speaker 1: of the family, you go ahead and you do this autopsy,

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Speaker 1: because if you don't, as we're seeing played out right

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Speaker 1: before us, you wind up with a gigantic mess on

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Speaker 1: your hand. That means that after this period of time

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Speaker 1: which everybody knows Tammy Day, Belle was sent from Idaho,

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Speaker 1: eventually wound up in a graveyard down in Utah and

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Speaker 1: she's buried. So now you've got all kinds of other

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Speaker 1: complications that come in if you want to examine her body.

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Speaker 1: Now you've got to have her exhumed. And there is

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Speaker 1: the big problem, Joe, because with burial comes the preparation

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Speaker 1: of the body to be buried at that point, if

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Speaker 1: she had been poisoned, if she had overdosed, if she

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Speaker 1: had any chemical in her body, that evidence is destroyed now.

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Speaker 1: And Jackie, in this particular case, this is another example

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Speaker 1: of if only, if only another decision had been made,

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Speaker 1: so we know that that there was a bad decision

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Speaker 1: made at the scene of Tammy Daville's death. All Right,

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Speaker 1: the body is released. It has to go to the

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Speaker 1: funeral home because you're not going to be able to

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Speaker 1: transport her body across state lines without that body being embolved.

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Speaker 1: All right, there was another opportunity here. The corner could

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Speaker 1: have gone to the funeral home. And some reports say

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Speaker 1: that she did at that point in time what she saw.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea. Obviously she felt comfortable enough at

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Speaker 1: that moment time to release the body. But I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you what she didn't do, Jackie. We have these big

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Speaker 1: needles that we use, these big syringes, if you will.

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Speaker 1: The needle itself is actually called a ten gage needle,

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Speaker 1: and people at home may or may not know what

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Speaker 1: it is, but it's a brother large needle. It's not

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Speaker 1: something you would give an injection with, say, if you're

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Speaker 1: going to see your family practitioner, it's rather large. It's

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Speaker 1: what we use in the morgue. We can go to

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Speaker 1: a funeral home and I've done this any number of

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Speaker 1: times and take a ten gage needle with a large

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Speaker 1: syringe and you go right through the breastplate and you

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Speaker 1: go into the A order and you directly draw heart blood.

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Speaker 1: If you can't get heart blood out of the A order,

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Speaker 1: you can go into you can do a slight incision

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Speaker 1: and draw out femeral blood. Now that's better than nothing.

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Speaker 1: What else you can do with the more you can

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Speaker 1: actually and this means that you're not doing an autopsy,

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Speaker 1: you're not having to open the body. We do all

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Speaker 1: of this externally. We can take a similar needle and

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Speaker 1: go directly externally into the roof of the bladder if

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Speaker 1: you will, and draw out urine that wasn't done. If

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Speaker 1: you can't get that, we can always go the eyes.

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Speaker 1: And what are the eyes do? Well? They're filled with

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Speaker 1: what's referred to as vitreous fluid and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people aren't familiar with that. It's got a real kind

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Speaker 1: of cyclical rate. It doesn't it doesn't metabolize things say,

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Speaker 1: for instance, like the blood does it just kind of

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Speaker 1: it kind of sits there and kind of slowly kind

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Speaker 1: of churns in this area, and it's what gives our

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Speaker 1: eye form. But what's really interesting about it is it

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Speaker 1: holds on to certain chemicals that we can actually go

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Speaker 1: in and conduct toxicological studies on. That wasn't done, Jackie.

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Speaker 1: They missed the boat on that point too. So now

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, as you mentioned, you've got all these

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Speaker 1: other people that are now touching the body. You've got

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Speaker 1: these funeral directors that are handling the body, the embalmer

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Speaker 1: that's going to be setting things up to start this

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Speaker 1: embalming process. And you know, I've had a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that have asked me, but we'll look, Morgan. You know,

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Speaker 1: why couldn't they just go back and draw talks on her?

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Speaker 1: You know, after she's been exhumed. You can't. It's an

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Speaker 1: empirical impossibility, Dena. Why because all the blood is gone,

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Speaker 1: every single drop of it. Because the way embalming works,

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Speaker 1: it's a gravity driven process. They have a little pump

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Speaker 1: that pumps this embalming fluid into the body. It starts

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Speaker 1: up high, it comes down low, and so as they're

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Speaker 1: pumping the body, they're infusing it with this embalming fluid.

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Speaker 1: It's pushing all the blood out of the body. And

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Speaker 1: they have this return where they use these large metal

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Speaker 1: trocars they're called to start to start this event, and

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Speaker 1: they're pulling the blood out of the body. And when

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Speaker 1: that fluid turns clear, you know that all the blood

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Speaker 1: is gone and the body is embalmed. So you can't

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Speaker 1: go back after the fact. And if you've never if

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Speaker 1: you've never actually placed your hands onto an embalmed body,

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Speaker 1: it's impacted by these chemicals, and rightly so, because embalming

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Speaker 1: the process itself turns the body very, very firm. It

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Speaker 1: preserves the body. The folks at home will just imagine

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Speaker 1: many times what an overinflated basketball feels like. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of the same texture that an embalmed body has. It's

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Speaker 1: it's kind of it's very firm, but yet it still

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Speaker 1: has kind of a supple nature to it. But you're

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Speaker 1: not going to get anything out of that body that

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Speaker 1: is really worth having. Relative to fluids for toxicology, there

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Speaker 1: might be a saving grace if they can go in

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Speaker 1: and capture some of the tissue and look at it microscopically,

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Speaker 1: but again it's a long shot. When a body is

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Speaker 1: embalmed and the chemicals are flushed throughout the body, it

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Speaker 1: is going in through the veins. Is it going into

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Speaker 1: the organs and to the tissue as well? Yes, yes

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Speaker 1: it is. And I've been involved in many what are

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Speaker 1: referred to as eximations where you take the body you removed,

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Speaker 1: the body is exhumed, and the body comes back to

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Speaker 1: the morgue. And many times this happens as a result

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Speaker 1: of the bodies not previously being an autopsy, just like

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Speaker 1: in this case. And when you get that body out

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Speaker 1: of the ground and you bring the body back to

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Speaker 1: the morgue where you're going to do the autopsy again,

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Speaker 1: when you not only is the external body kind of

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Speaker 1: firm to the touch, and it's got this it's a

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Speaker 1: smell that never leaves you. It's not like a decomposition.

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Speaker 1: It's got this real sickly sweet odor to it, and

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Speaker 1: that's the embalming fluid. And when you open the body,

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Speaker 1: it just kind of slaps you right in the face

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Speaker 1: and you have to kind of get past it. Because

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Speaker 1: when I say it's sickly sweet, I'll put it to

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Speaker 1: you this way in my experience, I would much rather

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Speaker 1: be around a decomposed body than I would an embalmed body.

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Speaker 1: That's how sickening smells. I listened to you and Nancy

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Speaker 1: talk a lot about how bad a decomposed body smells,

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Speaker 1: and how that is such a distinctive odor that you

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Speaker 1: ever forget and never want to smell again. But you're

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Speaker 1: telling me that an exhumed body is worse. To me,

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Speaker 1: it is, and this is why when I go in

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Speaker 1: as a scientist and I am examining a decomposed body

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Speaker 1: and yet they are foul. I mean, it is really

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Speaker 1: difficult to work in that environment. But you understand that

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Speaker 1: this is a natural biological process that you're dealing with, okay,

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Speaker 1: But when you start dealing with a with a previously

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Speaker 1: embalmed body, there's something that's very unnatural about it. And

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Speaker 1: it has again like this sickly sweet smell, and one

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Speaker 1: other factor to it for me has always been in

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Speaker 1: the back of my mind. When I first started the

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Speaker 1: chemicals that were being used, there was some evidence at

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Speaker 1: that point in time that these many of these these

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Speaker 1: chemicals that were being used, particularly a long long time ago,

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Speaker 1: to embalm bodies were carcinogenic. So you know, you're sitting

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Speaker 1: there and you're trying to keep your mind focused on

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Speaker 1: the side this examination that you're doing, but you're all

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Speaker 1: the while you're thinking, well, what in the heck am

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Speaker 1: I inhalating here with this sickly sweet kind of odor

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Speaker 1: of death? If you will. That's that's a man made

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Speaker 1: event that is on every level for me, at least,

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Speaker 1: very important. Jackie. One of the biggest hurdles that that

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Speaker 1: these forensic sciences started going to have to kind of

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Speaker 1: negotiate as as this investigation into Tammy Daville's death, m

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Speaker 1: H continues on, is this idea that her body has

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Speaker 1: been embalmed, and not only has the body been embalmed,

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Speaker 1: but the body's been buried. The body's been buried in

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Speaker 1: another state, and the big question is what have they found?

383
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Speaker 1: Why don't we have more information at this point in time?

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Speaker 1: That absolutely is the million dollar question, Joe, And what

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Speaker 1: I am curious about after authorities exhumed the body, how

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Speaker 1: are they going to or how did they determine what

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00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: caused Tammy's death and what did she die from? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that brings us back to the original proposition. The kids

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Speaker 1: all got together with CBS on forty eight hours and

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Speaker 1: actually one of the sons, I believe it was Garth

391
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Speaker 1: Garth they Bell. He actually made the comment on air.

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Speaker 1: He said, the police told us that our mother's cause

393
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Speaker 1: of death was asphyxia, but we haven't seen an autopsy report.

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Speaker 1: That's quote unquote, and so again, you know, just like

395
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Speaker 1: these children, we have yet to see the autopsy report.

396
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Speaker 1: But the kids are saying that they were informed that

397
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Speaker 1: mom's death was as a result of asphyxia. Very curious

398
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: that during the same interview it was kind of intimated

399
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Speaker 1: by the kids that well, asphixia doesn't always mean homicide. Okay,

400
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 1: well maybe that's the case, and I guess in a

401
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 1: pure academic sense that would be the case. But you know,

402
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 1: as as we talk about, you know, day in and

403
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: day out, in these discussions that you and I have

404
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: here on bodybacks, we know that most of the time,

405
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: when the police start talking about asphyxia, they're going to

406
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 1: be talking about look, one or two things. Either this

407
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: is kind of a self inflicted event. You know, you

408
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: begin to think about, well, maybe somebody was hung, or

409
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they placed a bag over their own head,

410
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: and that only occurs in very rare circumstances, or they

411
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Speaker 1: died at the hands of another individual. But right now

412
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: we're left with this kind of to try to understand,

413
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Speaker 1: how did if they did in fact, remember this hasn't

414
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: come from an official source, how did they in fact

415
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: come to this conclusion? And well, that would tell me

416
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: that they found something on the physical body at autopsy,

417
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Speaker 1: if this is to be believed what we heard the

418
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: sun say they found something on the physical body, Well,

419
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: what would that be? Was there some kind of damage

420
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: to the neck that of course was not seen beforehand

421
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: because there was not an autopsy immediately after death? Could

422
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: you still see evidence there? Yeah? Yeah, you could see

423
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: a fractured hyoid. You could see crushing trauma, and the larynx,

424
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, the windpipe. We've talked about that a lot.

425
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Speaker 1: Is there a potential that you could still see PATIKUII.

426
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Speaker 1: I think that's the big question that everybody has. I

427
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Speaker 1: think probably if you looked close enough, particularly in the eyes.

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Speaker 1: But you know the thing about morticians is that when

429
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: they embalm the body, they do a curious thing with

430
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: the eyes. They actually put cups, these little these little

431
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: cups over the eyes and close the eyelids and then

432
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: glue the eyelids shut, and they do that with the

433
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: mouth as well. And my question is if there is

434
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: PATIKII present on the surface what's referred to as the

435
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: clural surface of the eye, is it still appreciable after

436
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: all this time. Remember she was actually in the ground

437
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: for weeks Jackie, and I mean for weeks down there

438
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: in Utah before they ever examined a body. And here's

439
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: another factor that you have to put into all of this,

440
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: because not only was she embalmed and then transported down there,

441
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: but she was placed into into this grave. What condition

442
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: was the grave then? Had it been compromised in anyway?

443
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: Was it? You know, they the funeral business sells coffins

444
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: to people on the with the idea that this thing

445
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 1: is going to be sealed, it will be sealed forever

446
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: and ever, amen, and that nothing's going to impact the bodies.

447
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of exlimations. Bodies get impacted. So

448
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: I wonder how good was this, How effective was the embalming,

449
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: because sometimes embalming can go bad and you'll begin to

450
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: have little focal areas of decomposition that impact certain areas

451
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: of tissue. Is there any chance that that happened in

452
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: the case. So it's really hard to try to understand

453
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: how these individuals at the Utah State Medical Examiner's office,

454
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: which is where her body eventually went to after the exhamation,

455
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: what kind of conclusions did they arrive at that point

456
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: in time? And I get the feeling we're going to

457
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: find out something really soon, Jackie, because there are number

458
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: of trials on slate that are going to be that

459
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: are just over the horizon, and at that point in time,

460
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 1: evidence is going to have to be presented and questions

461
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: will be asked. We'll just find out what kind of

462
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: answers we get to them. One of the things you mentioned,

463
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: Joe was how long Tammy had been buried, While along

464
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: with that came how long it took for us to

465
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: have any findings, even just knowing that the autopsy itself

466
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: was completed. Why is that what took so long? Yeah,

467
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: that that's that's a fantastic question, jack I gotta tell you,

468
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: I've thought about this quite a bit and around kind

469
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: of been the un this odd universe of these Day

470
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: Belle cases. We've got all these other deaths that are involved,

471
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: and let's think about all of the different jurisdictions. Well,

472
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: now we've got Idaho, We've got Utah involved because of Tammy,

473
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: and we go down to to Arizona where we've got

474
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: deaths down there that are you know, at least peripherally

475
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: involved in in these cases. And then you've got these

476
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: two individuals with UH with Chad and Lorie that run

477
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: off to to Hawaii to get to get married. What

478
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: you're looking at here is a multi jurisdictional event, Jackie.

479
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: And yeah, the you know, the people in Idaho are

480
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: going to have first shot at you know, having a

481
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: prosecution here, but you have to understand there's there are

482
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: other jurisdictions that have kind of authority in this. Even

483
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: the FEDS have an interest in this. Let's think about

484
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: JJ and Tyly. Well, where were they actually kind of

485
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: last seen with videography? Well we know that at least

486
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: Tylely the last time I think she was seeing was

487
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: over in Yellowstone. Well who controls Yellowstone, Jackie, that's FEDS.

488
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: That's the FEDS. And then you've got people crossing state lines,

489
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,239
Speaker 1: so you know you might have a federal interest here

490
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: as well. So I'm really wondering if they are not

491
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: holding back information because they're trying to get this case

492
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: put together that is highly, highly complex and very very complicated.

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00:29:54,840 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks