Speaker 1: All right, welcome to episode thirty nine, where at the
Speaker 1: house with Charlie Washing. I'm good friend of mine. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna see but I'm good to see you. I like
Speaker 1: your music. Yeah, yeah, we I think Mike and I
Speaker 1: had this music accidentally the very first show, right, like
Speaker 1: what we got, and we were just looking for some
Speaker 1: kind of game show music. And now it's stuck. So
Speaker 1: we played every single Bobby Guys, maybe after fifty or
Speaker 1: something will change it. What's gonna say a ficture? Mike,
Speaker 1: get comfortable, man, I am comfortable. Maybe I'm not that.
Speaker 1: Let me get comfortable to let me hit my shirt off.
Speaker 1: All right, now, I'm ready. So it's gonna see again too.
Speaker 1: You have a record coming out in April. I just
Speaker 1: kind of want to give the overview and then we
Speaker 1: kind of go around with the whole story first. So
Speaker 1: you have a record coming out in April, right, that's right? Alright,
Speaker 1: So new record comes out in April. I know Charlie
Speaker 1: for I've known you for a few years now, Um,
Speaker 1: you are a multi instrumentalist. Well, Mike, how would we
Speaker 1: describe Charlie people? We've never heard it before. Before we
Speaker 1: get to the story, I mean super Surrey April, like genius,
Speaker 1: prodigy kid who's now music. Yeah, like even the greats
Speaker 1: go way. Charlie Warson was awesome. So now that we've
Speaker 1: said that, I want we kind of dig into the
Speaker 1: story so that because people listening like, who's Charlie Warhson.
Speaker 1: That's who it is. One of the smartest guys I know. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you. My mom is a school teacher. Oh a
Speaker 1: lot to that. What what you teach? Well, a little
Speaker 1: bit everything. Over the years, uh forever, she taught sixth
Speaker 1: grade and um she now has transitioned into running the
Speaker 1: gifted programs back in my hometown. So you're a gifted
Speaker 1: kid though, right, I did some of the gifted. We
Speaker 1: had gifted opportunities from i'd say eighth grade on. So
Speaker 1: there wasn't like a g T in second grade for
Speaker 1: you guys in Mississippi. Oh not not necessarily. But that's
Speaker 1: where my mom comes in. She always had the best
Speaker 1: like educational books and just she encouraged my curier city,
Speaker 1: you know. And she she believes in travel as an education,
Speaker 1: and so I was very well traveled at a young age.
Speaker 1: Um that and that made a huge difference, you know,
Speaker 1: were you all as kid. Ah, yeah, because you loved
Speaker 1: learning or because you the pressure was there. I'd say
Speaker 1: the pressure was maybe the third on the list that
Speaker 1: I did truly love and still do love learning. Um
Speaker 1: but it also and you can probably relate to this,
Speaker 1: it was sort of a game, and I love I
Speaker 1: feel like I have a healthy competitive spirit and it
Speaker 1: was fun. Two treat it kind of like a game,
Speaker 1: like a competition, like a competition. Yeah. Yeah, so you
Speaker 1: you go to school and you grew up in Coronada, Missippi. Right,
Speaker 1: So what so I could far install a population like
Speaker 1: seven hundred where I grew up. How big is Granada? Well,
Speaker 1: the county is uh about twenty five thousand. I think
Speaker 1: we're not a county or town. It's both. It's both,
Speaker 1: and so within the city it's probably fifteen. I could
Speaker 1: be off on those numbers. I mean, I graduated in
Speaker 1: a class of uh eighty five, it's closer to to
Speaker 1: thirty or forty now, I think, Um, so it's it's
Speaker 1: not a small small town. It's not a big town either,
Speaker 1: but it's big fish in a little pond kind of town.
Speaker 1: When you go back to Granada, are you the big
Speaker 1: deal there? Well, I mean I I have a lot
Speaker 1: of good friends there. I have a lot of people
Speaker 1: that have seen me since I was you know, as
Speaker 1: they say, kneehi to a grasshopper, and you know, playing
Speaker 1: banjo at the nursing home and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: And so, uh, I'm I'm very very I feel very
Speaker 1: loved back home. So that means yeah, so okay, let's
Speaker 1: start with you as a kid, and so you start
Speaker 1: to pick up what insuran at what age? Uh. As
Speaker 1: soon as I struck out at t ball and karate,
Speaker 1: didn't you know, sparring didn't work out that great, I
Speaker 1: realized I should maybe try something else. And it was
Speaker 1: piano lessons. And that was in kindergarten and I stuck
Speaker 1: with piano lessons through my high school years. Um and
Speaker 1: I we would come up here to Nashville a ton soup, yes,
Speaker 1: part of that travel thing, and we would go to
Speaker 1: operu Land when the theme park was still around. And
Speaker 1: this guy, Mike Snyder, he's remember of the Grand ol
Speaker 1: Opry and and a very beloved part of the country
Speaker 1: music story. And uh, he had this show and uh
Speaker 1: in the American bandstand and he played this song he
Speaker 1: had written about running over the German shepherd in the
Speaker 1: driveway and making a coat for his wife out of it,
Speaker 1: the fur Coat Song. And I went up to Nashville
Speaker 1: wanting a guitar because I always want to rock out
Speaker 1: on electric guitar. But my mom's psychology, uh and seeing
Speaker 1: Mike Snyder combined made me go back to Grenado wanting
Speaker 1: a band a banjo. Uh. So you came to phil
Speaker 1: knowing the piano one thing, to play the guitar, but
Speaker 1: then you were influenced into the banjo. And what what
Speaker 1: age was that? Right around second grade? So didn't you
Speaker 1: at some point in your life and I don't want
Speaker 1: to go back, but didn't you win like a championship
Speaker 1: at banjo plan? Yeah? So part of the story with that.
Speaker 1: I would go to a lot of these small community
Speaker 1: uh bluegrass days, you know, where they'd have a concert
Speaker 1: and a contest and you could you could enter all
Speaker 1: the contests. They have a fiddle and a mandolin and
Speaker 1: a banjo contest. And after the banjo, I started picking
Speaker 1: up other instruments every year or two and uh, here's
Speaker 1: the deal there there would only be maybe two competitors
Speaker 1: in the mandolin competition, and there'd be three prizes, and
Speaker 1: first prize was either fifty or a hundred dollars. So
Speaker 1: I mean just by entering, your your accruing money. And
Speaker 1: uh So I would go clean up these little festivals
Speaker 1: and enter every contest, and I knew my two songs
Speaker 1: old Man and and and uh and then I eventually
Speaker 1: graduated up to the the Mississippi State Fair contest that
Speaker 1: was a big deal in the state. And um I
Speaker 1: never won. I never won that contest, and we all
Speaker 1: felt like it was rigged and all this stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: but whatever, I never won. And we heard about uh
Speaker 1: through another person. We met there this thing in Smithfield, Smithfield, Tennessee,
Speaker 1: where Mike Snyder grew up, and you're playing the banjo
Speaker 1: at this time. Yeah, banjo was the main thing. And
Speaker 1: if if it was a small situation and we'd throw
Speaker 1: the other instruments in the car and go. But um
Speaker 1: so we go up to Smithfield and it's the Junior
Speaker 1: National Banjo Contest and there's not much national about it
Speaker 1: really in reality, but they have the title and and
Speaker 1: uh so I ended up winning. And I wrote a
Speaker 1: note to Mike Snyder and sort of at the end
Speaker 1: of the note wrote, you know, It's always been my
Speaker 1: dream to play the opry. You know, we nudge and
Speaker 1: nudge and low and behold he with the phone rings
Speaker 1: one day in the kitchen and my mom's there. She
Speaker 1: picks it up and he's he's called, and he's asking
Speaker 1: if I want to come be his guest on the operation.
Speaker 1: How old are you? Uh? That was I was about twelve,
Speaker 1: twelve years old. You go and win the National Banjo competition,
Speaker 1: because that is what it was called, and you write
Speaker 1: a note and say, hey, you influence me. That's right
Speaker 1: from when you mailed it off till you got the
Speaker 1: call back. How long was that? Gosh, I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I don't remember, but and it was. I do remember.
Speaker 1: It was junior National, so it wasn't quite what the
Speaker 1: full blown National wasn't. And twelve was the cap, the
Speaker 1: age cap, so I barely got in. But I remember
Speaker 1: it was just before my thirteenth birthday, which my birthdays
Speaker 1: in September, so it would have been I think it
Speaker 1: was in August. I think it was in August. I
Speaker 1: played in the contest. Probably would have been that summer
Speaker 1: because I don't think we could have done a trip
Speaker 1: like that during the school year. You know, um do
Speaker 1: we were you waiting for a call from I didn't
Speaker 1: know what to expect, you know, I still don't stuff
Speaker 1: like that. Um, but I'm it was kind of like
Speaker 1: when you hope for you know, you you're hoping for
Speaker 1: something for your birthday or for Christmas, or you hope
Speaker 1: for something on a TV show and you can't really
Speaker 1: ever count on it happening, but when it does happen,
Speaker 1: you're just yeah, I knew what was gonna happen, you know.
Speaker 1: So he says, invite it up to the opera? Do
Speaker 1: you call him and say, hey, when do you want
Speaker 1: me to come up? And I'll come up immediately? How
Speaker 1: does that work? How do you get back in touch
Speaker 1: with him? I don't remember, you know what. That was
Speaker 1: a thing. That was a mom thing and she was
Speaker 1: so sweet to be as as the phrase goes to
Speaker 1: the manager in those earlier years, and also very sweet
Speaker 1: not to be the momager later on, you know, like
Speaker 1: we we established some some boundaries there which were nice
Speaker 1: later on. But when I when you're a kid, you know,
Speaker 1: and it was different, and so I just remembered we
Speaker 1: got to go in that, you know, and you've been
Speaker 1: on the play this, so you know, you get that
Speaker 1: backstage entrance operate the artist and it's way different, you know.
Speaker 1: And we've seen the opera a bunch, you know, and um, golly,
Speaker 1: it was it was pretty magic. So you go out
Speaker 1: of twelve years old, you play the opera the first
Speaker 1: time you play the banjo. I'm assuming since that's what
Speaker 1: you did, did you sing it all or just get
Speaker 1: that would come the next year, right right as puberty
Speaker 1: was hitting, And so there are a couple of songs, uh,
Speaker 1: from an album I got to make that next year
Speaker 1: with Mike Snyder's band, Um and I sang on a
Speaker 1: couple of those tracks, and it's it's not my proudest moment.
Speaker 1: So how do you get back on the operation again?
Speaker 1: Did you play so well? Invited you back? Uh? Well,
Speaker 1: I didn't play it again until I was here living
Speaker 1: in Nashville between Yeah, well there was one. There was
Speaker 1: one thing. It wasn't an opery show. It was some
Speaker 1: big blue gray as jam day. And we did go
Speaker 1: back a few months later and I got to jam
Speaker 1: and play again on the Opery. But it wasn't the
Speaker 1: opery Opery, you know, it was just the stage, which
Speaker 1: is still amazing. And then I moved to Nashville at
Speaker 1: one and the next time I really was on the
Speaker 1: stage for the Opery Show would have been backing up
Speaker 1: Rebecca len Howard, who is a super talented singer and
Speaker 1: writer and artist and um. She put a few records
Speaker 1: out how to Hit Her Two and has continued to write,
Speaker 1: and she's in Steven Tyler's band now UM but also
Speaker 1: does her own production. And so the next time you
Speaker 1: went there, you were playing for her. Decide musician. Okay,
Speaker 1: I want to go back to the kid thing because
Speaker 1: you were Did you practice a lot or did it
Speaker 1: come easy as you practiced a lot? It would depend
Speaker 1: on what it was. The guitar. Uh, well, it never
Speaker 1: felt like practicing. You know, I'm not the best practice er.
Speaker 1: Actually A practiced more now than I probably ever have. Piano.
Speaker 1: I practiced, Uh tried fiddle for a couple of years.
Speaker 1: That was not the most successful venture into you know,
Speaker 1: you you don't want me to be your fiddle player.
Speaker 1: I just put it like that. But it took a
Speaker 1: lot more practice because it was a little more foreign
Speaker 1: to me, not having frets and not having a pick
Speaker 1: and having to do the bow instead. But uh, guitar
Speaker 1: was just always fun to play. And if if picking
Speaker 1: out chords and solo parts and licks off of records
Speaker 1: counts as practicing, yes, I practiced a lot, but I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say I spent a great deal of time, you know,
Speaker 1: running scales back and forth to a metronome. You know,
Speaker 1: it was just making trying to make music. When did
Speaker 1: you feel like you were gonn enough to make a
Speaker 1: life out of this. It's it's a hard question for
Speaker 1: me to answer because I don't ever remember not just
Speaker 1: thinking that's where it was going, but I don't remember
Speaker 1: ever going. It just always was the next thing in
Speaker 1: front of me, you know, it was whatever came next,
Speaker 1: And and it got more and more. I got more
Speaker 1: and more involved, and it got more and more serious,
Speaker 1: and it was the time to start looking at college options.
Speaker 1: And I had done really well academically, so I had
Speaker 1: some really good offers, especially in state. And then there
Speaker 1: was Berkeley in Boston, which was ah expensive and and
Speaker 1: and even with scholarships expensive still, but in my heart
Speaker 1: it was just this has to be it, you know.
Speaker 1: I've been there for a summer program, and I fell
Speaker 1: in love with it, and fell in love with the
Speaker 1: people there and and uh, that might have been the
Speaker 1: point which I officially signed up for this. When you
Speaker 1: get to Berkeley and it's and have other friends who
Speaker 1: went to Berkeley, you know, just crazy music brains. When
Speaker 1: you get there and you're on other like minded people
Speaker 1: there there, you know their brains are like yours. Is
Speaker 1: that strange for you since you've never really been completely
Speaker 1: surrounded by people like you? It was. It was the
Speaker 1: best culture shock anyone could have. I mean, you're a
Speaker 1: kid from Mississippi going to Boston and you're a kid
Speaker 1: in a small town where there's probably not a lot
Speaker 1: of what you do happening around you at the level
Speaker 1: that you want to do it. So talk about when
Speaker 1: you get when you get to Boston, you get to Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: you meet all these other kids who are kind of
Speaker 1: in the same same place, right, Well, yeah, because it will.
Speaker 1: In Mississippi, I've had a lot of people who mentored me.
Speaker 1: So there were there were the guys I played in
Speaker 1: bars on the weekends with, and they were all in
Speaker 1: their thirties and forties and better than me. And that
Speaker 1: was a gift. You know what I believe in trying
Speaker 1: to not be don't ever be the most talented musician,
Speaker 1: and in your band, you know that you're not going
Speaker 1: to grow that way. And so the biggest shift being
Speaker 1: in Boston was that everyone it was all the means
Speaker 1: from all the other towns, which is what is what
Speaker 1: you're saying, what you're asking. But but the the shift
Speaker 1: wasn't that all of a sudden was surrounded by people
Speaker 1: that were lifting me up. It was that they were
Speaker 1: doing that, but they were my age, and they had
Speaker 1: the same story and the same you know future and
Speaker 1: all its uncertain glory um and it was it's a
Speaker 1: very international school. And Boston is I mean kind of
Speaker 1: like when you first went to a Little Rock and
Speaker 1: then Austin. It would have been like both of those
Speaker 1: in one maybe possibly just because I mean the Red
Speaker 1: Sox one that first my first semester, the Red Sox
Speaker 1: broke the Yeah they won, and I mean here in
Speaker 1: mississipp you probably remember this too, or you can of
Speaker 1: relate to this. It's you know, you get in the
Speaker 1: car to drive through the parking lot next door in Boston,
Speaker 1: it's like, man, you're gonna walk. We're gonna I don't
Speaker 1: care if it's four feet of snow. We're just walking everywhere,
Speaker 1: or we're gonna get on the subway. There's a subway,
Speaker 1: you know, all of that. And you know there's a
Speaker 1: little literally called North End, and real Italian immigrants here
Speaker 1: like cutting the salami in the cheese and you can
Speaker 1: actually it's right off the boat from Italy and you
Speaker 1: can buy it right here on you know. So it
Speaker 1: was just this crazy thing and it felt like a
Speaker 1: summer camp that never ended because it just wasn't. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was challenging, but it wasn't challenging in a way
Speaker 1: that felt difficult because it was so much fun and
Speaker 1: everybody else was there having so much fun. It was
Speaker 1: the Disneyland of of being a young musician. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a crazy competition to you odd, not really, because you know,
Speaker 1: and the beauty of Berkeley is you find your people
Speaker 1: and it turns out and the same here in Nashville.
Speaker 1: All your people, your your your crew. They all have
Speaker 1: different talents and do different things. And and if I
Speaker 1: if I showed up at Berkeley with any chip on
Speaker 1: my shoulder, it was what I call the three chord
Speaker 1: music chip, because you know, they're like all these kids
Speaker 1: who could do this stuff. I'll never be able to do.
Speaker 1: And I consciously was sort of, WHOA, I don't. I'm
Speaker 1: curious about that, and I want to know more about it,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to ever not be excited about G,
Speaker 1: C and D. If. If I ever get to a
Speaker 1: point where I'm not thrilled by the chords and the A, C,
Speaker 1: D C songs, then I'm doing something wrong, you know.
Speaker 1: So I sort of had this defensive nature when it
Speaker 1: came to something that might have felt like competition. It
Speaker 1: was like, WHOA, that's cool you do that. This is
Speaker 1: what I do. I love songs that are this simple.
Speaker 1: And I got to be in a bluegrass band for
Speaker 1: credit for college credit, and I was a banjo player
Speaker 1: and there weren't really other banjo players, so I was
Speaker 1: just collaborating all the time. It wasn't competitive in that way.
Speaker 1: And and my major was production and engineering, which I
Speaker 1: picked because it meant I could go be in these
Speaker 1: studios with SSL consoles and be around the gear and
Speaker 1: um all the friends I made there, you know, we
Speaker 1: we were forced to collaborate. If you had a class
Speaker 1: and uh production and engineering, your it was a session
Speaker 1: based class, so you had to go find musicians and
Speaker 1: a singer and a songwriter which might be the same
Speaker 1: person but might not. And you had to budget it out,
Speaker 1: which meant working with the music business folks. And so
Speaker 1: you were working with all the other people and and
Speaker 1: your job is different. Even even down to most of
Speaker 1: the classes. You would do two projects each semester, one
Speaker 1: as producer, one as engineering. You'd partner with somebody so
Speaker 1: for their production prob Jake, you were their engineer, so
Speaker 1: that there was not a lot of opportunity to feel
Speaker 1: cut throat. And now we visited some other schools that
Speaker 1: were more traditional conservatories, and you could tell because everybody
Speaker 1: was trying to play this Beethoven piece or something, and
Speaker 1: there's there there is a definite way to do Beethoven
Speaker 1: and Mozart right in a way to do it wrong. Um,
Speaker 1: And you can easily h grade people and order them.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't But Michael was that movie with the
Speaker 1: kid in the drums, It was like whiplash on banjo,
Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, well, I mean there was there was,
Speaker 1: you know, challenges. There was a challenging situation with most
Speaker 1: of my professors. I mean they pushed us what got you,
Speaker 1: what instrument got you into Berkley, was it banjo? Uh?
Speaker 1: I think I signed up on paper for guitar, but
Speaker 1: I always had the banjo with me and used that
Speaker 1: as a a way to go. This is something different.
Speaker 1: I have a friend who went as a vocal that
Speaker 1: she came out playing the fiddle. Yeah, And so I
Speaker 1: don't you know ant Yes, I do. I was about
Speaker 1: to say, I think you're talking about that. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: she plays the fiddle. She's so great at the fiddle.
Speaker 1: And I was talking to her about Birke like She's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I went in as a vocal as a singer, and
Speaker 1: she sings great. She's one of the best singers. She
Speaker 1: sings fantastic. But she has that fit. I thought she
Speaker 1: went ever fiddle because she's, you know, so good to
Speaker 1: fay the fiddle. Uh, let me talk for a second.
Speaker 1: How about this so blue Apron. You know, not all
Speaker 1: ingredients are created equal. For me, I would like to
Speaker 1: know what to my food, and even better, it's affordable.
Speaker 1: So when you kind of my house to see a
Speaker 1: box and just that's on my counter right now and
Speaker 1: it says Blue Apron, it's like a brown box and
Speaker 1: they send you all the ingredients and basically for less
Speaker 1: than ten dollars per person per mell. Blue Apron delivers
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Speaker 1: You get a Blue Apron dot Com slash Bobby Cast
Speaker 1: and they send you the preportioned ingredients and to buy
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Speaker 1: Apron dot Com slash Bobby Cast. All right, so Charlie
Speaker 1: wash thems here and we're talking about and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: play something here. Let's we talked about some mystery stuff.
Speaker 1: Let me play some Cut Your Groove here. This is
Speaker 1: from You can buy it now, but the records come
Speaker 1: out in April. When the needle drives, what you're gonna do,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go backwards. Okay, I love it. Uh. This
Speaker 1: album started in year old stomping grounds of Buston, Texas,
Speaker 1: at Waterloo Records. I was in between tours and I
Speaker 1: was really burned out. And I bought these three notebooks
Speaker 1: at at Waterloo, and that song and all the songs
Speaker 1: I wrote or co wrote on the album We're Born
Speaker 1: in those notebooks and uh, cut Your Groove was I
Speaker 1: call it my theme song because the whole notebook thing
Speaker 1: and this album was me sort of working out being
Speaker 1: human being on one level, but also sort of coming
Speaker 1: to grips with you know, this is the thing I've
Speaker 1: always loved, and I somehow got to a point where
Speaker 1: I was so burned out, I was on the edge
Speaker 1: of not loving it anymore. And this is me falling
Speaker 1: back in love with music. And uh, and that song.
Speaker 1: I forget the when when exactly it came in the process,
Speaker 1: but I just remember I was doing these morning pages.
Speaker 1: I promised myself I'd feel a page every day, and
Speaker 1: the only rule was telling the truth. And uh, it
Speaker 1: could be you know, uh, should have gone for a
Speaker 1: run yesterday, but I didn't, and then I ate pizza
Speaker 1: and I feel terrible, and that might have been it.
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of days it was something
Speaker 1: that just dumb, you know. But I would do these
Speaker 1: word games too, where I'd write a word down and
Speaker 1: and use this the five senses plus the sense of body, um,
Speaker 1: like if you're trembling because there's it's scary, or the
Speaker 1: sense of motion, which is sort of car sickness or something,
Speaker 1: and uh, and based on the senses, you would use
Speaker 1: that word and just see where it took you. And
Speaker 1: I'll put the word groove on paper. And I've gotten
Speaker 1: in this habit so much that I could actually sometimes
Speaker 1: write it out, uh, streaming conc just and it would
Speaker 1: end up rhyming. And it kind of worked like that.
Speaker 1: And I had a couple of different days I spent
Speaker 1: with that word, and then I brought to my buddy Oscar,
Speaker 1: and we started writing this song. And Oscar, you gotta understand,
Speaker 1: is younger than me. And at the time I was
Speaker 1: living in this house that was sort of a musician's
Speaker 1: hostile you know, which is you see all over town
Speaker 1: and that's how that's the first house I lived in
Speaker 1: Nashville was that environment. So you go in and there's
Speaker 1: pizza boxes, and there's guitar cases, and nobody has anything
Speaker 1: nice except for all this recording gear and instruments, and
Speaker 1: you can you can see the priorities. And it reminded
Speaker 1: me of my journey when I first moved to town.
Speaker 1: And so I was drawing on that and the idea
Speaker 1: of the word groove and where we landed and stuff,
Speaker 1: and just seeing myself in Oscar and and he was
Speaker 1: throwing out things and and that's where that song really
Speaker 1: came from. So you talk about being burnt out? What
Speaker 1: burned you out? Well you mentioned it twice yea, like
Speaker 1: spent sixty seconds or so, so it sounds like you've
Speaker 1: kind of had some sort of like Okay, I'm tired
Speaker 1: and now you're back. Yeah, it was. And I used
Speaker 1: the word burned out because it's it's not the right word,
Speaker 1: but it's the the closest I can get to what
Speaker 1: it was, which is, you know, the what was frustrating you?
Speaker 1: All right? I learned this great definition over the last
Speaker 1: couple of years. That integrity is when you're insides and
Speaker 1: your outside match. And I was in a place where
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like my insides and my outsides matched.
Speaker 1: I had spent my life playing music and loving it,
Speaker 1: and if I worked harder, I was rewarded somehow more
Speaker 1: for it. And and I could always just go work
Speaker 1: and get better and and and then it would just
Speaker 1: all make sense based on that, and and I signed
Speaker 1: this record deal, and it was amazing, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, this thing that was always my life, just
Speaker 1: the music and trying to wake up every day and
Speaker 1: get better and trusting that more or less that if
Speaker 1: I do that, that everything else works out. All of
Speaker 1: a sudden, part of my job and part of the picture,
Speaker 1: was well, you've got to think about these things, and
Speaker 1: they might be the photo shoot or the video shoot,
Speaker 1: or what do you think about this haircut? Or what
Speaker 1: do you think about these clothes? And then touring, strategy
Speaker 1: and data DA all this and social media, and then
Speaker 1: I'm on social media and you know which, I actually
Speaker 1: took this weekend off of social media and it was
Speaker 1: the greatest thing for me ever. I might have to
Speaker 1: start doing it more because it's comparison is such a
Speaker 1: a dangerous thing in this business. It doesn't do anybody
Speaker 1: any good, you know. Uh. And and yet we also
Speaker 1: have to sort of keep eyes open and see what's
Speaker 1: on the landscape, you know. And so I was just
Speaker 1: I ended up in this place where I've been on
Speaker 1: the road NonStop for eighteen months. I didn't feel like
Speaker 1: my music was connecting, and I didn't know what was
Speaker 1: wrong with me. I thought something was wrong with me.
Speaker 1: So every time I felt that I would just work harder,
Speaker 1: get on the hamster wheel faster, you know. And the
Speaker 1: truth is that it just it just doesn't always it
Speaker 1: doesn't always go as we plan. And and and I
Speaker 1: was always right to just think, if I just work
Speaker 1: on myself, try to get better, it's all gonna work out.
Speaker 1: And of course I got to manage these other things.
Speaker 1: But my job is to tell the truth. That's why
Speaker 1: I ended up writing it on that notebook, even if
Speaker 1: I didn't know that at the time. And and so
Speaker 1: I just got to this place where I was physically exhausted.
Speaker 1: I was frustrated, and and I was frustrated that it
Speaker 1: didn't work. I felt pressured to you know, uh, prove
Speaker 1: my label, right, you know, they had invested all this
Speaker 1: in me and and in my you know, in my priorities.
Speaker 1: Here's the other thing. My my happiness was attached to
Speaker 1: these expectations I had put on myself and that and
Speaker 1: that caused pressure. And so when I fell short of
Speaker 1: those expectations, I didn't think I had earned happiness and
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I had done my job. And
Speaker 1: that just is not a healthy way to try to
Speaker 1: do a thirty or fourty year career, you know. And
Speaker 1: and so I took this time and I did a
Speaker 1: lot of work on myself. And I mean, you've talked
Speaker 1: about this in your book, and I'll tell you, man.
Speaker 1: I mean I've I've been seeing a counselor seeing a
Speaker 1: therapist for a while now, and I got to go
Speaker 1: to this place called on site, which is sort of
Speaker 1: like a six day intensive uh, you know, you check
Speaker 1: your phone in and everything, and you just work on yourself.
Speaker 1: And so I've learned so much about myself now. Um,
Speaker 1: and I don't think I can if we're going backwards
Speaker 1: to look at this, I can't tease apart this record
Speaker 1: and that part of my journey. You know, I've always
Speaker 1: just been music, music, music, and I needed to take
Speaker 1: a minute and kind of go, okay, human being, let's
Speaker 1: look at this. So when do you decide you're gonna
Speaker 1: like what what is it? Because I've had breaking points
Speaker 1: for me? What was the breaking point for you? We're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: something's got to change because I can't go at this
Speaker 1: pace at least emotionally and mentally and make it like
Speaker 1: where was it for you? When I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I gotta take a step back because that's a hard
Speaker 1: decision to make. Yeah. Well, and some of it, to
Speaker 1: be fair, was sort of made for me. I mean
Speaker 1: I have to give my label credit. Chris Lacey my
Speaker 1: a n R and s BO, who who runs the label.
Speaker 1: They both sort of said, hey, we're worried about you.
Speaker 1: You don't seem to be happy. Why don't you go
Speaker 1: make Charlie music? You know? And man, that was the
Speaker 1: greatest gift because I mean, I can't tell you had
Speaker 1: I been somewhere else, I don't know that i'd still
Speaker 1: have a deal. I don't know that they that would
Speaker 1: have been said. It might have been you need to
Speaker 1: cut these hits or whatever. I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: but I know that what they the way they helped
Speaker 1: me was it was a gift. And I think it
Speaker 1: all came to a head towards the end of the
Speaker 1: fall of Oh my Gosh. I think two fourteen, I
Speaker 1: was on the CMT tour and it was a great
Speaker 1: tour to be on. And when tours like this get booked,
Speaker 1: as you know, they often are booked nine months twelve
Speaker 1: months in advance. And so the tour was me and
Speaker 1: Sam Hunt and kept more and between the booking of
Speaker 1: the tour and the tour, Sam Hunt became I call Elvis,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, he was on fire and uh,
Speaker 1: and my record just kind of ran out of gas.
Speaker 1: None of this is anybody's fault or plan or anything.
Speaker 1: It just that's what happened. But I was locked in
Speaker 1: to go on after Sam Hunt, and people were coming
Speaker 1: to the shows rightly, so they were wanting to hear
Speaker 1: Sam Hunt, and they only got about twenty minutes of him,
Speaker 1: and then they got me for forty five minutes. And
Speaker 1: I took it personally, I really did, and that was
Speaker 1: not something I should have done. But I walked off
Speaker 1: stage really angry with myself and and frustrated, ah and
Speaker 1: not not at Sam, and I wish I could say
Speaker 1: in every instance, not at the audience, but I just
Speaker 1: couldn't understand, you know. But now I can see it
Speaker 1: clearly and the people at the shows. I had no
Speaker 1: idea that that's how tours get booked, and that's how
Speaker 1: it was, and that's just how it was, and it's
Speaker 1: how it how to be, you know. And I love
Speaker 1: Sam and I'm a fan, and and yet I had
Speaker 1: this really difficult job of following him, and and I'd
Speaker 1: already I was coming off of another tour that was
Speaker 1: coming off of another tour, and and and somewhere in
Speaker 1: there too, I also was sort of given the news
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to go start over with a new record,
Speaker 1: and my expectations again they were still driving my happiness.
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking, what what are you talking about? Man,
Speaker 1: there's we gotta do two more singles, like this is crazy,
Speaker 1: And but that's just that's just life, you know. That
Speaker 1: was just what happened. And uh, And I was really
Speaker 1: lucky to be on that tour. I was really lucky
Speaker 1: to have the album and have it connect as much
Speaker 1: as it did connect. And I just couldn't see it
Speaker 1: clearly at the time. And so when that tour was over,
Speaker 1: we went to Canada that next winter, that next February
Speaker 1: and did a tour and and then the brakes came
Speaker 1: on pretty hard. And and it just took me a
Speaker 1: couple of years. Two Uh. I call it emotional blood letting,
Speaker 1: you know. I just had to get past the frustrations
Speaker 1: so that and to a place where I could see
Speaker 1: things clearly. And and now I'm just I'm happy because
Speaker 1: I'm happy and I get to do what I love
Speaker 1: and I'm very grateful for that, and I practiced a
Speaker 1: lot of gratitude. Um. But but I don't think my
Speaker 1: story is necessarily unique because I think, you know, that's
Speaker 1: the challenge of of when you get a record deal.
Speaker 1: I mean that's all of a sudden, you're on radio
Speaker 1: tour and then're on a regular tour and then you're
Speaker 1: you know, it's just boom boom boom with all these things,
Speaker 1: and people are looking at you like you're the Coca
Speaker 1: Cola bottle and they changed the design of the bottle.
Speaker 1: Only it's not the label on the bottle. This is you.
Speaker 1: This is your vulnerability on you know, on speakers and
Speaker 1: and when you get on stage, I mean, if I
Speaker 1: if I gained ten pounds and I don't fit in
Speaker 1: my photo shoot clothes, you know, it's not that's me.
Speaker 1: It's not some product. And it's just kind of a
Speaker 1: roller coaster ride. And I think it's I think it's
Speaker 1: a challenging journey for for most anyone who has that opportunity,
Speaker 1: just because it's so abnormal. I mean, if you look
Speaker 1: back at as far back as Elvis, I mean the
Speaker 1: guy had to go run out movie theaters at night
Speaker 1: because he couldn't go to a regular you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And that's a whole other set of problems
Speaker 1: and stuff. All that to say, it's just public professions
Speaker 1: create abnormal life circumstances and which you know to you
Speaker 1: have your own experiences that I that some of which
Speaker 1: I've read in your book, and more of which I
Speaker 1: know you have, and it's just one of those things.
Speaker 1: And and so my goal now is sort of like
Speaker 1: with cut your group especially, is this is what I've learned,
Speaker 1: This is how I came to peace with it. And
Speaker 1: I hope that in telling you all out there that
Speaker 1: it helps you somehow on your journey. You know, did
Speaker 1: you come from the line of thought that you come
Speaker 1: away from this better and stronger because of all the
Speaker 1: pain as an artist. Yeah, and and I don't mean
Speaker 1: it to sound but no, I think that, yes. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: You know there's that great Leonard Cohen song that has
Speaker 1: the line the cracks are where the light gets in.
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, if yeah, I don't think I would
Speaker 1: be able to appreciate anything that ever might come my way.
Speaker 1: Uh good, if I didn't have the times when it
Speaker 1: was withheld from me for whatever reason. You know, do
Speaker 1: you think because something I've struggled with? Do you think
Speaker 1: that you didn't know how to be happy until you
Speaker 1: really felt what it was like to be sad and
Speaker 1: you really didn't know what it was like to be
Speaker 1: sad until you really got sad. Oh? I do think
Speaker 1: that the two create attention that is necessary. Ah. And
Speaker 1: you know, for me, the way I the way I
Speaker 1: see that, the way I interpret that is that, ah,
Speaker 1: it's okay to be sad, and it's okay to be angry,
Speaker 1: and it's okay to be lonely. Um. I don't think
Speaker 1: that the way we all get hit from all sides
Speaker 1: with advertisements and you know, everything from social media to
Speaker 1: TV and whatnot. You know, we're not necessarily encouraged on
Speaker 1: a daily basis to be anything short of happy, and
Speaker 1: we sort of you know. I mean, if you look
Speaker 1: at my Instagram fee, you would think that I have
Speaker 1: the most charmed life there ever was. And so we're
Speaker 1: all on these phones like swiping down and seeing everybody
Speaker 1: else's rock star version of their life and thinking, well,
Speaker 1: why isn't that me? And the truth is, man, that
Speaker 1: is you, and that's them too. But if you if
Speaker 1: you got past the social media feed, there's also all
Speaker 1: these other things, and it's okay to feel those things.
Speaker 1: And if you don't let those things process themselves. I'd
Speaker 1: take a boxing class every week if I can, religiously,
Speaker 1: because I don't care what it is, if it's unfounded
Speaker 1: or not. I find that if I spend an hour
Speaker 1: punching the air and punching the the midst of the instructor,
Speaker 1: a week, I work out whatever frustrations I have in
Speaker 1: my week goes better, you know. And if I don't
Speaker 1: do it, I haven't I end up having a weird week.
Speaker 1: We are made to process all these things, and I
Speaker 1: know how like I know, I go deep on this stuff,
Speaker 1: but check this out. Up until about fifty years ago,
Speaker 1: if you were a human being on this planet, to
Speaker 1: keep your housewarming winter, you have to chop firewood pretty much,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Or at least two a
Speaker 1: hundred years ago, you had to get out and swinging
Speaker 1: acts for a couple of hours every day, and and
Speaker 1: anger releases itself physically, and that's a healthy way to
Speaker 1: get rid of that anger. If somebody died, you didn't
Speaker 1: send them, you didn't call the corner. You you put
Speaker 1: them up in the house and hope that the body
Speaker 1: didn't smell bad. And then you and your friends down
Speaker 1: the street got out the shovels and dug the hole
Speaker 1: and buried your friend or your family member. And the
Speaker 1: sadness was forced you had. You were forced to process
Speaker 1: those emotions. And it was okay to process those emotions
Speaker 1: because it was a part of daily life. But today
Speaker 1: we're insulated from all of that and we're encouraged to
Speaker 1: be happy all the time. And I'm sorry, but that
Speaker 1: just isn't It's what you said you In order to
Speaker 1: really know happiness and feel it, you you have to
Speaker 1: know the other emotions too. So you think because they
Speaker 1: did more exertion back in the day they were able
Speaker 1: to get more feelings out. Well, I just think it
Speaker 1: was a more natural use of our our bodies and
Speaker 1: our our daily routines. You know, I've never heard the
Speaker 1: theory before. I think it's interesting theory. I mean, who knows.
Speaker 1: I mean, a scientist can call in at any moment.
Speaker 1: I know, I just say, and once it's once, it's out.
Speaker 1: But I'm really you know, that's that's kind of how
Speaker 1: I see it, you know, And I try to I
Speaker 1: try to do what I can to mimic what I
Speaker 1: imagine would be those natural things. And music is a
Speaker 1: great thing for I mean, you talked about working through
Speaker 1: sad stuff, but I would say you you probably agree
Speaker 1: that you're fair happy right now. I think I'm an
Speaker 1: I just don't know if there's ever for me happiness.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's real. Well, let's say this,
Speaker 1: on a given night, you're feeling good, you're feeling happy.
Speaker 1: Have you ever listened to sad music when you're happy? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's my favorite music. Listen to what I'm happy And
Speaker 1: some of the happiest people I know love sad long
Speaker 1: some music. And I think music is one of those
Speaker 1: natural things. I don't feel as alone when I listened
Speaker 1: to sad music. And I think that's why most of
Speaker 1: my library, right is that like a BPMO, like to hey,
Speaker 1: one of two of the most powerful words in the
Speaker 1: English language, me too. That's what music is, sad music,
Speaker 1: especially it's Merl Haggard is Merl Haggard because he wrote
Speaker 1: all these great songs saying, yeah, you had a crappy day,
Speaker 1: me too, you're in prison, me too, you're your mom
Speaker 1: and dad, me too. You know it's like, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: some I'm with you. That's what That's what music is.
Speaker 1: Somebody's saying I'm with you, man. No. That's why real
Speaker 1: authentic music cuts through too, because then the everyday landscape
Speaker 1: everyone seems so pristine because we have social media, we
Speaker 1: have what everyone's trying to put out there, so we
Speaker 1: don't see what's really happening. We know what's happened with us,
Speaker 1: and we think that this is some sort of anomaly,
Speaker 1: like we have the only crappy stuff happening to us
Speaker 1: because we don't hear about anybody else's, we don't see
Speaker 1: about anybody else, and so there isn't that me too.
Speaker 1: Until you get music and you actually here and feel
Speaker 1: the vulnerability of someone and there's happiness me too, And
Speaker 1: I think you have to go happy. I don't know that.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's such thing as the one through ten.
Speaker 1: And I never say ten and anything. I don't think
Speaker 1: there's a ten. I think I'm probably the best I've
Speaker 1: been in a long time. If normal it's a five,
Speaker 1: I'm at a five point one. That's at that point.
Speaker 1: One is a big jump for me, just because again,
Speaker 1: like I think it's a grind forward to prove people's
Speaker 1: expectations right. Yes, yes, not wrong. The people that men
Speaker 1: have many detractors, many that want to see me fail
Speaker 1: because I'm just not the system that's in personal against me.
Speaker 1: But I'm not the system that's been here forever. I
Speaker 1: don't care about them. But it's people that said, hey,
Speaker 1: we have faith in you. Those are the ones that
Speaker 1: you want to prove right. It's other people to prove wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But you know what, even just getting to that point
Speaker 1: is takes most of some people's journeys. We're all on
Speaker 1: the journey. And I mean I would ask this of you,
Speaker 1: Uh is it when you when you don't want to
Speaker 1: say definitively happy, our happiness. Is there some element there
Speaker 1: that for you? I mean, and it's in your mantra
Speaker 1: I means fight, ground, repeat. I mean, is it that
Speaker 1: you're waking up every day going I want to try again,
Speaker 1: I gotta prove it again. Yeah. I have what has
Speaker 1: been called imposter syndrome, where you don't really feel like
Speaker 1: you should be where you are, like you think you're
Speaker 1: you know, eventually you're gonna get caught like I do.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've been robbing, robbing banks for ten
Speaker 1: years and someone's gonna be Okay, you're not really that good,
Speaker 1: so let's go ahead. You've been a fake the whole time.
Speaker 1: I was going to pull you back a bit. I've
Speaker 1: I've felt that too. I've struggled with that too. I
Speaker 1: still do, and I still have my days where I
Speaker 1: really have to you know, I have some routines in
Speaker 1: place to help me with that. But I don't know
Speaker 1: anybody in this town and in the music business who
Speaker 1: doesn't at some point feel imposter syndrome. Because I mean,
Speaker 1: you and I could go to any of the restaurants
Speaker 1: right now and the person who'd come up and pour
Speaker 1: our water is probably a world class singer songwriter chances are,
Speaker 1: you know, and and that can be both a good
Speaker 1: and a bad influence on someone in this town. You know,
Speaker 1: do you believe in luck? I believe in Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think there's I mean, I think there's lucky breaks. I
Speaker 1: think there's I mean, I like to call it coinci
Speaker 1: God because it's I think, you know, ah, I mean,
Speaker 1: they say they don't talk politics and religion. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna say this. I am a Christian, but I'm not
Speaker 1: I don't often identify with the angry yelling I hate
Speaker 1: everybody who isn't like me version of my faith that
Speaker 1: I sometimes see on TV, and that makes me sad. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think that in the way that a twelve
Speaker 1: Step program comes out of the gate saying we believe
Speaker 1: in a higher power, it's not any particular religion that
Speaker 1: they're trying to get at, and they welcome they just
Speaker 1: they the twelve Step program places great importance on believing
Speaker 1: in in a divine hand, believing in something that's sort
Speaker 1: of greater than ourselves. And um, and I think that
Speaker 1: luck is a thing, but I believe it's cousins with
Speaker 1: it's you know, you could say that brothers Osborne are
Speaker 1: lucky but I know knowing John, He's one of the
Speaker 1: first people I met when I moved to town. And
Speaker 1: I know how hard the and TJ have worked, and
Speaker 1: I can make a case for him not being lucky,
Speaker 1: but the but the truth is they've worked really hard
Speaker 1: and some really cool coincidences have also happened, and it
Speaker 1: all adds up to something that one person might call
Speaker 1: luck and one person might just call man. They they
Speaker 1: freaking did it? You know, and and you know both
Speaker 1: are true. Both are true, I think. I mean in
Speaker 1: their case, they know how hard they worked and how
Speaker 1: talented they are. And John's here for at this point,
Speaker 1: and so I didn't know. I was having dinner with
Speaker 1: John somewhat recently, and you guys played together, and I'm
Speaker 1: a fan of both of you guys, and we were
Speaker 1: and I was talking about you, and he was like, yeah, Charlie,
Speaker 1: I used to play together. But and somebody else played
Speaker 1: in that band too. Uh Matt Utterback who plays bass
Speaker 1: for Hunter Hayes, Uh, Donnie fall Gator, Josh Mtheeny. Josh
Speaker 1: is in a band called Steel Union, and so was Donnie.
Speaker 1: And Josh also writes for Curb Uh, Kevin Weaver and
Speaker 1: Kevin is one of my favorite human beings and he's
Speaker 1: played drums for just about everybody. Uh, but yeah, that
Speaker 1: we were all on this band together, and the band
Speaker 1: you and John Osborne in the same band, which is
Speaker 1: just as guitar players like you guys are a different level.
Speaker 1: Oh well I was. I was kind of utility acoustic,
Speaker 1: so I played you were the utility to think about it,
Speaker 1: but I always borrowed John stratocaster his first electric and
Speaker 1: I eventually bought it from him. But let's be honest,
Speaker 1: that's his guitar forever. I'm just holding onto it for
Speaker 1: a while, you know. But yeah, what are you thinking
Speaker 1: about John as a player? Like what comes to mind?
Speaker 1: Style wise? Well, he he built his foundation on the
Speaker 1: true great players, all that go all the way back,
Speaker 1: and he is a master, uh scholar of the true
Speaker 1: original greats. He's not founded on his playing isn't founded
Speaker 1: on something new. It's the new and his playing is
Speaker 1: his own voice. And I think that's what makes him
Speaker 1: really great. And I say what I'm what I'm getting
Speaker 1: at is John is on a path that lands a
Speaker 1: guy and Keith Richard's territory or Brian may territory or
Speaker 1: Angus Young or Malcolm Young territory, which goes to say,
Speaker 1: those are all guitar players that you don't have to
Speaker 1: know much about guitar, but you know it's Keith Richards.
Speaker 1: And if you don't know his name, you know it's
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones because you hear Keith Richards and nobody
Speaker 1: plays guitar like Keith Richards. Are you hearing a C
Speaker 1: D C song and you know that's Anguish Young even
Speaker 1: if you don't know his name, just because the guitar,
Speaker 1: the actual player has such an original voice. And John
Speaker 1: is becoming an iconic player. He's not becoming a really
Speaker 1: good player. He was that a long time ago. He's
Speaker 1: becoming John Osborne. You know already their records, You know
Speaker 1: their records not just by TJ's voice, but by his fingers,
Speaker 1: John's fingers, his playing and uh and I mean he's
Speaker 1: been an influence on me. I've always thought of him
Speaker 1: as a big brother because when I showed up in
Speaker 1: the town, he had been in town two or three years,
Speaker 1: and and if we had off time or he played
Speaker 1: something that sounds you could be like, oh can you
Speaker 1: show me that? You know. So he's been one of
Speaker 1: my teachers over the years. Um, I couldn't love him
Speaker 1: more as a player or as a human being. You
Speaker 1: and Vince hell have a relationship? Yeah, how did that start? Oh? Man? Uh? Well,
Speaker 1: my parents are big Vince fans and they went to
Speaker 1: see him probably ten times when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: and ah, and he became quickly became a main influence.
Speaker 1: I call him my north star. And uh, my first
Speaker 1: time to really interact with him, he was playing and
Speaker 1: singing as a guest on my first record, on a
Speaker 1: song called Tools of the Trade. And it wasn't too
Speaker 1: long after that that we cross paths again. And oh yeah,
Speaker 1: how did you get vincec you on that song? You know?
Speaker 1: The funny thing about that story is that I want
Speaker 1: to say a guy named John Grady h is the one.
Speaker 1: This may be memory failing me, but he's he's old
Speaker 1: friends with Vince and and my my team and I
Speaker 1: were asking around to try to see if he would
Speaker 1: do it. And I think it was as simple as
Speaker 1: as me getting Vince's number and John going if it
Speaker 1: wasn't John. What I remember is John said here when
Speaker 1: because they basically somebody gave me Vince's number and said
Speaker 1: call him. So of course I'm thinking, well, this is
Speaker 1: my hero. I'm gonna call my just call him, just
Speaker 1: cold call this guy. Okay, sure? And uh and if
Speaker 1: it wasn't John who gave the number, I remember him
Speaker 1: saying he probably won't answer, but I guarantee her call back.
Speaker 1: Like he might not be able to pick up the phone,
Speaker 1: but he'll call you back. He calls, and I've since
Speaker 1: found out that he is a he's a telephone call guy.
Speaker 1: He's not really a Texter, you know. And uh so
Speaker 1: I called Vince and I left the most awkward voicemail
Speaker 1: and the history of voicemails. And next day he calls
Speaker 1: me back and we set up a time and now
Speaker 1: I'm headed to his house to his studio and and
Speaker 1: it and it happens, and you know, time goes by,
Speaker 1: and the next thing I remember was getting to uh
Speaker 1: see him at the opry. Uh and then he did
Speaker 1: this really cool thing. You know, anybody that doesn't know,
Speaker 1: if you know Vince, you already know this. But if
Speaker 1: if you don't know Vince, he is the most gracious
Speaker 1: and pay it forward human being in country music period.
Speaker 1: He has always lifting someone up and mentoring someone. It's
Speaker 1: guesting on someone's record, and uh, and he decided, rather
Speaker 1: than just go do his normal tour, he would do
Speaker 1: a couple of runs where he brought out Ashton Monroe,
Speaker 1: Jenny Gill and myself and Vince would sing a few
Speaker 1: songs and then we'd each sing a few songs all
Speaker 1: in one show and being a band together. And so then,
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of years go by. Now I'm
Speaker 1: on a bus with my hero and sharing the stage
Speaker 1: with him. And I remember Greg Almand came to one
Speaker 1: of the shows and I'm sitting here playing. I'm looking
Speaker 1: over and there's Greg Almand. I'm going, holy crap, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh. And then we just got to know each
Speaker 1: other better and better. And it never quite feels normal
Speaker 1: because he's my hero, but it's comfortable and and he's
Speaker 1: a true mentor and a true friend, and I can
Speaker 1: reach out to him for advice and and he he'll
Speaker 1: call me to do gigs. A couple of weekends ago,
Speaker 1: I was out on the road as his guitar player.
Speaker 1: And I guarantee you he does not need he doesn't
Speaker 1: need me to help him on guitar. He doesn't need
Speaker 1: another guitar player. He's good and if he does, you know,
Speaker 1: the guys that he normally has in his band or
Speaker 1: world class. But but I think he just has this
Speaker 1: intuition and this desire to find people who are up
Speaker 1: and coming and give them a little boost and give
Speaker 1: him some confidence and a leg up. And and does
Speaker 1: that motivate you want to be that person? Absolutely? Absolutely? Uh?
Speaker 1: And And for me, it's it's it's it. It looks different,
Speaker 1: you know, but you know when when I if I'm
Speaker 1: in a room events, he's been a lot further down
Speaker 1: the road than I have. But if I'm in a
Speaker 1: room with kids in a high school who are curious
Speaker 1: about this, then I've been a lot further down the
Speaker 1: road than them, you know. So that's maybe my version
Speaker 1: of it. Or if it's somebody who literally just signed
Speaker 1: up their first record deal or their first pub deal,
Speaker 1: you know. Um And not in a way of hey listening,
Speaker 1: listen here, kid, let me tell you how it is.
Speaker 1: It's just more like, how are you feeling? How are
Speaker 1: you you know, really seeing that person and looking him
Speaker 1: in the eye, and like are you are you? You
Speaker 1: hanging in there? You got any questions? You're good? You're good,
Speaker 1: you know, um? And and and I get. Here's the deal, though,
Speaker 1: I get more out of that than anybody. You you
Speaker 1: talk about this in your book because you did the
Speaker 1: scholarship in your hometown, and you were saying, you know
Speaker 1: that you almost felt guilty about picking this other than
Speaker 1: instead of some other thing. Oh man, you might have
Speaker 1: heard me, because I was going, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Talking out loud to you reading your book. Uh, you
Speaker 1: weren't anywhere near at the moment. You can hear. But
Speaker 1: but it was this thing where no, man, that's exactly
Speaker 1: what you should do, because nobody knows that journey better
Speaker 1: than you. If you go to your old high school
Speaker 1: and you see a kid that you helped pick, I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, man, that's and this goes into my theory
Speaker 1: about chopping wood and burying the people down the street.
Speaker 1: Is it's natural to want to form low community and
Speaker 1: local even though you're not in Arkansas right now, that's
Speaker 1: still your local community. You grew up in it, you
Speaker 1: know it better than anybody, and so you are uniquely
Speaker 1: able to help. For my whole issue was if, like
Speaker 1: Charlie talking about, was so with me. When I would
Speaker 1: find things to help, I would start to feel guilty
Speaker 1: because I was only helping things that kind of helped me,
Speaker 1: And so there was a lot of I'm only doing
Speaker 1: this because this certain X helped me whenever I was
Speaker 1: a kid. You know, I I helped kids get glasses
Speaker 1: and see because I needed help to see when I
Speaker 1: was a kid. So there was this guilt that came
Speaker 1: along with that, like I'm only helping me, and I
Speaker 1: still struggle with that. It's like, why am I only
Speaker 1: helping I go to hospitals, I do musicians on called.
Speaker 1: I was in the hospital for a long time as
Speaker 1: a kid. Yeah, and so it's like I think I wrote,
Speaker 1: why don't I just help birds? You know, I've never
Speaker 1: not affected by any birds. Why don't I just help
Speaker 1: birds that are strong link to live? It's it's a
Speaker 1: it's a weird thing to feel selfish from giving, and
Speaker 1: there's that there's a guilt behind it. But yeah, that's
Speaker 1: for me. That's a struggle for me. I wish it weren't.
Speaker 1: I know what you mean, But the way I see
Speaker 1: it is that you're doing exactly what you should do.
Speaker 1: That's I mean, it'd be it'd be like we're sitting
Speaker 1: here talking about how great events is for giving young
Speaker 1: singers and songwriters a leg up. It wouldn't quite make
Speaker 1: sense if all of a sudden everything he did had
Speaker 1: something to do with vaccinations in this remote corner of
Speaker 1: the world, because you're thinking, well, events and I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't get it. You know, he's he he has
Speaker 1: this god given talent, and while he's used it in
Speaker 1: many ways that are amazing, and writing songs like go
Speaker 1: rest Town on that Mountain and the songs he's written
Speaker 1: in tribute to Merle Haggard and George Jones and his
Speaker 1: father and have help so many people that to me
Speaker 1: is one of the best ways to use your talent.
Speaker 1: It's also not a bad way to use your talent
Speaker 1: to just go make cool records period, even if all
Speaker 1: they're really If if one particular record is I feel
Speaker 1: good and I want to tune out the world, awesome,
Speaker 1: that still is using your talent for a positive thing.
Speaker 1: But I think that the greatest use of the talent
Speaker 1: is to take that expertise and and fold it back
Speaker 1: into itself with someone else, which is what you do
Speaker 1: with this stuff in your hometown because it's what you know.
Speaker 1: You can sit at that hospital bedside and late to
Speaker 1: the person in it better, the kid in it better
Speaker 1: because you've you've been there, the way that Vince can
Speaker 1: sit on a bus with me and encourage me at
Speaker 1: two in the morning going down the highway to the
Speaker 1: next gig because he's been in my shoes and that's
Speaker 1: and so for me too. It's sort of like if
Speaker 1: I do something, if I go to Berkeley and I
Speaker 1: speak to Berkeley students, that's the best use of my
Speaker 1: talent to do something charitable, you know, because I've been there.
Speaker 1: When you see guys like John Mayer, who is my
Speaker 1: favorite artist, Yeah, is he at a level it's so
Speaker 1: much higher than these other players that you see a
Speaker 1: right Like, is he, in your mind the best artist
Speaker 1: player out there now? He is one of my favorites.
Speaker 1: I gravitate to his songwriting as much as anything, but
Speaker 1: that's not to discount as playing. And and I was
Speaker 1: watching an interview I've also geeked out on all the
Speaker 1: interviews he's ever done, and he was saying something about
Speaker 1: his time at Berkeley, and he was looking at the
Speaker 1: players around them, the other students, and they could do
Speaker 1: all this little stuff. And he was sharing in the
Speaker 1: interview that he had this inner dialogue with himself. Wow,
Speaker 1: I could sit I could go learn these things and
Speaker 1: play like this and probably played a ten twenty people max,
Speaker 1: you know. Or I can take this knowledge and channel
Speaker 1: it into a way that I can play for you know,
Speaker 1: millions of people. And he's certainly to me for my
Speaker 1: whatever bet I would place is that he's definitely in
Speaker 1: his class as in high school class of artists. The
Speaker 1: best bet too, as a player really become an iconic player.
Speaker 1: People buy John Mayer records because of his guitar playing.
Speaker 1: People by certain guitar pedals and certain guitars and models
Speaker 1: of guitars because of John Mayer. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think that proves that to be true. And but
Speaker 1: the same is true of Ed Shearing, and Ed's playing
Speaker 1: is totally different. You can compare Ed and John. Uh,
Speaker 1: they're they're apples and oranges, you know. But John is certainly,
Speaker 1: in my book, yeah, one of the best to me.
Speaker 1: You know, when you have guys like you know, BB King,
Speaker 1: or you could go down the list and they and
Speaker 1: and he's the only guy in by that they can
Speaker 1: play with them, that's right. I mean, Derek Trucks does
Speaker 1: it too, you know. But but I don't know. There's
Speaker 1: actually a little older than Mayor though maybe so you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Hey Google, um, but you know he's
Speaker 1: he's turning on a whole different audience. Then I'm not
Speaker 1: a whole different audience. Um. And and here's the thing.
Speaker 1: We're at least thirty years away from seeing if either
Speaker 1: of them reach BB King or Earl Scrug status. And
Speaker 1: by that, I just mean I'm sorry man, that probably
Speaker 1: nobody since BB King has inspired were people to pick
Speaker 1: up a guitar. Have you listened away to a John
Speaker 1: Mayor and stuff? I haven't. I saw it and and
Speaker 1: I grabbed it, and I have not made time to
Speaker 1: listen to it. I don't want to halfway listen to it.
Speaker 1: It's funny to hear the little baby King shout out.
Speaker 1: He throws in, Yeah, Mike College is guy's younger than
Speaker 1: John here? That's crazy. You know what he doesn't have
Speaker 1: that he doesn't have the pop lineage to be on
Speaker 1: the radio. And that's where that's what makes John and
Speaker 1: unique animals his it's his songwriting sensibility and his playing
Speaker 1: and his singing. And he also still lacks fifteen So yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe that's why I was like he's young. It's funny,
Speaker 1: he's he's come to Berkeley before. He came to Berkeley
Speaker 1: when I was there and spoke and it was great.
Speaker 1: And and he's even said things at times that contradict
Speaker 1: investing in social media. Don't don't worry about that, just
Speaker 1: get good. And that's true. I think I think that
Speaker 1: was right for him to say, maybe to the audience
Speaker 1: at the time, but you have to you can't deny
Speaker 1: that he is a very savvy social media and he
Speaker 1: knows he knows what he's doing. So you look around
Speaker 1: now and then I want to get back to the
Speaker 1: your record in a few minutes. But if you look
Speaker 1: around now in Nashville, like, who do you see artist wise?
Speaker 1: Player wise, We're like, okay, that's cool, that's cool. Maybe
Speaker 1: even people will know him. I mean I have questioned
Speaker 1: asking you're not forgetting anybody, but who comes to mind?
Speaker 1: You look around, you go, okay, maybe that hasn't popped
Speaker 1: quite yet, and I can see something there. Well, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say John Osborne and the Brothers, but um,
Speaker 1: people are starting to know about them, and and do
Speaker 1: you know about them? Uh? This is tough because it
Speaker 1: isn't on the spot. I mean, Emily, he's doing it
Speaker 1: because we got nowhere to go. Yeah, well, I love
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say names, and this doesn't necessarily have
Speaker 1: bearing on how popular and are known or unknown they are.
Speaker 1: These are people I love that I will go out
Speaker 1: of my way to go see Uh the time Jumpers
Speaker 1: with Vents, but also Andy Reese. And Andy is not
Speaker 1: in his thirties and he's not gonna go be a
Speaker 1: pop star anytime soon, but he's just one of the
Speaker 1: best there is and the that same is true Paul
Speaker 1: Franklin on Steele Uh anytime. And also in this category
Speaker 1: of I'm not talking about up and coming, it hasn't
Speaker 1: hit yet. It's just they've chosen a path where if
Speaker 1: you know, you know, and if you don't, whatever, they
Speaker 1: they're already well into their career. But Shawn camp when
Speaker 1: he plays at the station end, Jack Pearson when he
Speaker 1: plays at the station in or third and Lensley, he
Speaker 1: UH is a big influence on Derek Trucks. Actually, anytime
Speaker 1: Derek plays in town, Jack Pearson comes out and he
Speaker 1: plays like a cheap guitar through a cheap aunt with
Speaker 1: one pedal and a busted cable and he sounds better
Speaker 1: than anybody. And uh and eighteen South, which is John
Speaker 1: Randall and Jesse Alexander and Guthrie Trapp is in that band.
Speaker 1: Another friend from Berkeley, and I even knew him from Mississippi.
Speaker 1: He's got family Mississippi and I knew him when he
Speaker 1: was thirteen and I was seventeen or whatever. But Johnny Duke,
Speaker 1: and he's been on stage with Ashton Monroe and LeAnn
Speaker 1: Wilmack and on record with a little Big Town. He'll
Speaker 1: play a show here and there. Brent Cobb, who put
Speaker 1: a great record out last year and has written songs
Speaker 1: for folks. I've written songs songs on my new record
Speaker 1: with him, and uh, man, it's so funny. It's hard
Speaker 1: to say because I spent so much in my time
Speaker 1: and energy seeking out people who and this is probably
Speaker 1: to a fault. I should look more for the new thing,
Speaker 1: but I kind of make a habit out of trying
Speaker 1: to go find the old masters. There is no right
Speaker 1: or wrong answer, Charlie, but no that, but this is true.
Speaker 1: Like I I wouldn't be the best person to ask
Speaker 1: because I'm not looking for that, you know, I'm looking Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm looking for I mean I've had the chance to
Speaker 1: write with um uh oh am, I spacing on his names.
Speaker 1: Two guys now, all right, mac Davis and Bill Anderson.
Speaker 1: Mac Davis wrote in the Ghetto by himself pretty much. Ah.
Speaker 1: I mean, Bill Anderson has had a hit in every
Speaker 1: decade since the fifties. And it's not like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get with these guys and We're gonna create the new
Speaker 1: hit of the century. Necessarily. It's that I know, if
Speaker 1: I sit across the room from those guys, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: pick up more ah, then I can with anybody else.
Speaker 1: Do you ever feel like you were born in the
Speaker 1: wrong generation? I have at times. I have at times,
Speaker 1: but I don't think so. I think I'm born at
Speaker 1: the right time, you know, I don't. I don't know
Speaker 1: that they're there are as many like me, like minded,
Speaker 1: you know, in in some of some of the regards.
Speaker 1: But um, no, I think I was supposed to be
Speaker 1: here now. You know, I don't know dent why yet,
Speaker 1: But I think I'm supposed to be here. Now. Do
Speaker 1: you think we ever know why? Um? Maybe not. I
Speaker 1: need to answer right now. I need to know myself.
Speaker 1: You know. I think I think we spend a lot
Speaker 1: of our time trying to figure that one out. And
Speaker 1: some of us maybe get there, and some of us don't,
Speaker 1: you know, play this song here Southern by the grace
Speaker 1: of guy, I'm telling y'all, it's still ConTroll. It's stuff
Speaker 1: to me, like the record here countries just country goes
Speaker 1: and can't country me? Hey tell that song, oh man,
Speaker 1: I wrote that in uh at Luke Dick's house with
Speaker 1: Luke and Chaine McNally, and uh, it's uh, there's a
Speaker 1: great old Tom T. Hall song called country Is, and
Speaker 1: it's sort of it was Tom T. Hall's way of
Speaker 1: he was here in Nashville at a time when a
Speaker 1: lot of people were writing a particular kind of song
Speaker 1: and up in arms about what's country and what isn't? Yeah,
Speaker 1: almost like almost like and uh and I think that
Speaker 1: song is my version of going, hey, guys, look, I Uh,
Speaker 1: my uncle cuts his hair with dogs. Shears once crapped
Speaker 1: my pants at a banjo competition when I was not
Speaker 1: the not the one I won. This was the actual
Speaker 1: national banjo competition. Uh, when I was like twelve or whatever.
Speaker 1: Her and you came out country me, you came out
Speaker 1: of country that man I'm sorry, you know, or whatever,
Speaker 1: but it's just like just to say. But equally country
Speaker 1: is the guy who grew up in inner city Chicago
Speaker 1: and it's just doing his thing or whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's like, are we really going to arm wrestle
Speaker 1: about this, you know, like we can we can waste
Speaker 1: our energy, you know, but this, this is I grew
Speaker 1: up and and the music side of that song reminds
Speaker 1: me less of country music, uh and more of everything else.
Speaker 1: For example, it feels very led Zeppelin to me. Um,
Speaker 1: which is the song ramble On by Them was an
Speaker 1: influence on on that. But then it also stuff that
Speaker 1: predates what we consider country. The he he that's straight
Speaker 1: rip off of a guy named Jimmy Martin who is
Speaker 1: known as the King of bluegrass. And I'm a big
Speaker 1: Jimmy Martin fan because when I took banjo lessons to
Speaker 1: my teacher, happened to be his banjo players, a sunny
Speaker 1: mountain boy that was what he called his man guys.
Speaker 1: And so it's sort of like that's my version of
Speaker 1: what Tom t Hall I think was saying, which is
Speaker 1: countries what you make it. It's all in your mind,
Speaker 1: it's all in your heart, it's living in the city,
Speaker 1: it's living in the country, it's it's loving your neighbor.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's just let's can can we please
Speaker 1: get past arm wrestling this and just speak our truths?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Does that make sense? It does? I
Speaker 1: tell it all the time. People tell me all the time.
Speaker 1: What isn't isn't? Yeah, and there there isn't an answer right,
Speaker 1: especially now, so you can yell and get on Facebook
Speaker 1: and tell me what song sucks and what song is
Speaker 1: real country? And oh, you're just wasting both of our time,
Speaker 1: right I get time to read it. I definitely don't
Speaker 1: want to respond to it anymore. So and that's country about.
Speaker 1: That's that's my country. And if you like it cool
Speaker 1: and if you don't cool, you know, I don't know. Shoot,
Speaker 1: let's let's go jam more. Do you see like music
Speaker 1: and color or anything like? Because I mean, you're such
Speaker 1: a good guitar player and you can like play like
Speaker 1: songs where you're like doing a whole one man band.
Speaker 1: You have like a thing in your head where you're like,
Speaker 1: it's so weird you ask that because I kind of do.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like a crazy strong thing and
Speaker 1: I think this goes back to I had a when
Speaker 1: I was first learning, had a keyboard and the keys
Speaker 1: were color coded, and I think that's why I associate colors,
Speaker 1: and because I learned on piano. So the key of
Speaker 1: F is purple to me, and the key of G
Speaker 1: is blue, and the key of A is red, and
Speaker 1: B flat is kind of orange, B is kind of yellow,
Speaker 1: C is white, D is black, he's green. I can't
Speaker 1: think it's from the keyboard because Mayor says he sees
Speaker 1: colors on he plays, but he does have a keyboard.
Speaker 1: Do you really think it's colors? Are is? It's something
Speaker 1: you guys brain, because you're you're definitely on the neck.
Speaker 1: You're you're like talking to alien because you see things
Speaker 1: that I've never seen. Like I'm on the earth, I
Speaker 1: walk on the earthly ground. I see things that my
Speaker 1: eyes let me see up and down. But that's it.
Speaker 1: You're on another headspace. I don't know that I see
Speaker 1: it when I play, but if i'm and if i'm
Speaker 1: charting a song or i'm living a song and a key,
Speaker 1: I just I feel it. You know, I'm definitely thinking
Speaker 1: about other things when I'm playing, or trying not to
Speaker 1: think that's what I'm mostly doing, is trying to just
Speaker 1: feeling up. But when I'm really just feeling it, like I,
Speaker 1: you couldn't play me a song and a random key
Speaker 1: and I'd go, oh, yeah, that's purple, and it's purple
Speaker 1: because it's F. I don't have perfect pitch to be
Speaker 1: able to say that's the key of F, you know.
Speaker 1: But I know ramble on Bys that led Zeppelin, and
Speaker 1: I've learned to play it and it's an E and
Speaker 1: it does feel kind of green to me. I don't
Speaker 1: know why. Yeah, that's crazy. So record comes out when
Speaker 1: April one. What do you want from this record? And
Speaker 1: how's it difference what you want to last record? Man,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things I want, but I know
Speaker 1: now I don't need let me say that. And there
Speaker 1: are things I hope for. There's three categories. Are things
Speaker 1: I hope for, and I hope for the same things
Speaker 1: we all do, you know, wild success and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: I want two get to keep doing this and somehow
Speaker 1: be a little further down the road, you know. And
Speaker 1: I need I just needed to make it, and I
Speaker 1: got to make it, and people are gonna get to
Speaker 1: hear it, and I don't think there's anything I need
Speaker 1: from it, um, but to get to keep doing it
Speaker 1: is a pretty strong want, you know too, whatever that means.
Speaker 1: If it just means that, you know, m I labeled
Speaker 1: it and drop me and and they offer me another option,
Speaker 1: and I'm somehow able to make a living doing this
Speaker 1: still and it doesn't you know, it's not something that
Speaker 1: just knocks me flat, you know, Uh, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: then that would be a great thing. And I want
Speaker 1: that with this record. I mean, I want people to
Speaker 1: hear it and and I hope they connect with it,
Speaker 1: and I have the wild dreams with it, but those
Speaker 1: are not what's important. You know, you and Brandy Clark
Speaker 1: going out, Yeah, something like that. Yeah, we may add
Speaker 1: some more. We met about it last week and um,
Speaker 1: we're we got a lot of fun ideas. We're we're
Speaker 1: cooking up some fun stuff. So so you and Brandy
Speaker 1: could like separate well, yeah, we're gonna play separate sets
Speaker 1: and then do some stuff together. I'm not quite sure
Speaker 1: yet how that looks, um. I know we want to
Speaker 1: do some fun songs together, maybe bring the the audience
Speaker 1: in on via social media to help us pick some
Speaker 1: of those songs. If it's different songs every night. We
Speaker 1: don't want it to be the exact same show every
Speaker 1: night for sure, you know. Ah, And I think we're
Speaker 1: gonna do some fun stuff during the day as well.
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's this really cool thing that the
Speaker 1: Grammy Foundation does where they bring high school kids in
Speaker 1: for your sound check and things like that. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if we'll what what will get worked out
Speaker 1: and what want, but we want to do stuff like
Speaker 1: that too. And um, we'd really love to take this
Speaker 1: to more cities, you know, if if this is successful
Speaker 1: and there's a demand for it, we'd we'd love to
Speaker 1: keep rolling down the highway. Well, I'm a fan. I'm
Speaker 1: a genuine fan. Thanks man. Likewise, so you know, I
Speaker 1: hope you get whatever film that you get out of
Speaker 1: this record, I hope you get it. Thank you. If
Speaker 1: it means a bunch of sold if it means you
Speaker 1: know you're happy with all the songs are on, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know what you find where do
Speaker 1: you find your happiness, but I hope you find it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you. Well, getting to May it was the big one,
Speaker 1: that's the big happiness, and it would be nice to
Speaker 1: buy a house. But you know, I got a cool place,
Speaker 1: I got a doll I'm all right, uh and really, man,
Speaker 1: just getting to keep doing it. Not a lot of
Speaker 1: people get to do this, and I'm I'm really grateful
Speaker 1: I get to do it. And I'm a fan of yours. Uh,
Speaker 1: your book really knocked me out, man. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I was a fan before, but you know, it's just
Speaker 1: knowing your story and it's not an easy story to tell.
Speaker 1: And I think we all have a story, and we
Speaker 1: all have a similar story. It's just we don't see
Speaker 1: those stories because again, all we're seeing is the very
Speaker 1: epidermist of what everybody wants us to see. And I
Speaker 1: think I after this. Before that, I always felt that
Speaker 1: I was writing and I was the only one that
Speaker 1: had that story until I wrote it and put it out.
Speaker 1: Then I realized everybody has something like that and they
Speaker 1: come and talk to you about it, like just X
Speaker 1: Y Z A, B C, D E f G has
Speaker 1: happened to me? And holy crap, when I wrote that,
Speaker 1: I thought I was alone, Like I thought I was
Speaker 1: alone in this world when I wrote that. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so yeah, that, if anything, that book has done so
Speaker 1: much for me because I realized I'm not the only
Speaker 1: guy on the planet that has struggles the old meat too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even what is it, page four or five years in
Speaker 1: there with Dean Sanders and is going to me to
Speaker 1: man and that and still like my dude Dion Sanders,
Speaker 1: who I looked up to as a kid prime time,
Speaker 1: like Dean, he'll just text me and like you're good. Still,
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is Deon and if I don't text
Speaker 1: the back, I'll get mad. He's like, I know you're
Speaker 1: watching your phone, but yeah, it's it's one of those wild,
Speaker 1: wild things. It's it's been good to have you with
Speaker 1: the house. Thanks for having I appreciate you coming. And
Speaker 1: not the record. Whenever you hear this either it's the
Speaker 1: records already out and just be able. But when these
Speaker 1: podcasts are listened to it for months years, that's probably
Speaker 1: putting the Smithsonian. Yeah yeah, so um, you could be
Speaker 1: in your tenth record right now, but go back to
Speaker 1: this one, all right, And what's the name of the record,
Speaker 1: Beginning of Things, Beginning of Things. So that's the record
Speaker 1: to go back to. He's talking about here the other
Speaker 1: five Grammy Award winning records. Afterwards, don't go back to
Speaker 1: this one that started off alright, Charlie, good to see
Speaker 1: you alright, episode thirty nine, and uh, I feel like
Speaker 1: I was trying, like eighty bucks for day every session.
Speaker 1: No man, I'll pay, I'll pay you all the way out.
Speaker 1: Just let me have a copy of that game show me,
Speaker 1: Charlie Warsham download cut your groove. You know. I was
Speaker 1: also tempted, but I didn't because I have the whole
Speaker 1: record and I never get to I never take records
Speaker 1: from anybody and listen to them ever, It's just my
Speaker 1: general rule. I listening to record like four times, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I wander I put up and I
Speaker 1: didn't hadn't put up any clips with anything new. I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I'm gonna know what's over now,
Speaker 1: So I didn't. But it's just really good, Like I
Speaker 1: really like the record. I don't even talk about anymore
Speaker 1: because any now. Yeah, it all right, Uh well, we'll
Speaker 1: see you next time. The thirty nine is over all right,
Speaker 1: good bye,