1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Still living in manually taking notes. There is a better 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: way to start the new year with auto dot ai. 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: Automatically get meeting notes. Auto dot ai works for virtual 4 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: meetings like Zoom, Microsoft Teams, and Google Meet. Sign up 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: on the web for free or download in the app 6 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: stores auto dot ai. That's O T T e r 7 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: dot Ai. This podcast is sponsored by Better Help Online Therapy. 8 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: I'm Michlene Maloof and I'm Nadiadesi, licensed therapists and hosts 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: of Getting Better Stories of Mental Health. Join us for 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: discussions with Megan Trainer, Chris Bosh, Rebel Wilson, and more, 11 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: from discussing motherhood to immigrating to general mental health. Our 12 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: guests are awe inspiring. We all struggle with the same things, 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: so let's talk about it and de stigmatize them. Find 14 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: our new podcast, Getting Better Stories of Mental Health on iHeart, 15 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Look for your children's eyes and 16 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: you will discover the true magic of a forest. Find 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: a forest near you and start exploring it. Discover the 18 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: forest dot Org brought to you by the United States 19 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: Sport Service and the AD Council UH. They're welcome the 20 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: money making conversation. I am your host, Rashaan McDonald. I 21 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: recognized that we all have different definitions of success. For some, 22 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: it's a sizable pay check. Mine is helping people wake 23 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: up and inspiring them to accomplish their goals and live 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: their very best life. These are my passions and that's 25 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: what I'm going to do for you. I want you 26 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: to stop tripping over small challenges and prepared to rise 27 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: above the bigger obstacles that life will present to you. 28 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: The Money Making Conversation interviews provide relatable information to the 29 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: listener by career and financial planning, entrepreneurship, motivation, leadership, overcoming 30 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: the arts, and how to live a balanced life. My 31 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: next guest was born in Washington, d C. But was 32 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: raised in Durham, North Carolina. That is where he that 33 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: is where his journey started to become a legendary style 34 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: icon and um former creative director of Vogue Magazine. His 35 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: new memoir, The Chiffon Trenches offers a candid look at 36 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: who's who are. The Last fifty Year is a fashion 37 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: just engaged in menoir tales with raw honesty. The story 38 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: how he not only survived the brutal style landscape, but 39 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: thrive despite racism. Illicit rumors and all the other challenges 40 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: of this notoriously cut through industry to become one of 41 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: the most renowned voices in fact, faces and fashion. Please 42 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: work with the money making conversation. It's the Andre Leon Tally, 43 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: good morning. How are you pretty good? My friend? Uh, 44 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: let's get there. Let's look thank you for calling them 45 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: on money making conversation, sir. Yeah, let's let's talk about 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: your style on the cover. Because I was reading the 47 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: book and in the book there's a photo in three 48 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: that shows you sporting a very similar hat to what 49 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: you're sporting on the cover right now, and then I 50 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: go further back, there's a similar style but there's more 51 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: more a floppy brim on it. Now, Okay, you know 52 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: I'm a fashion guy, so so I loved you. I 53 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: had a great time reading the book. But let's talk 54 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: about this look on the of a right quick, This 55 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: hat that I saw in three, but the earlier version 56 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: early with the floppy brown. Yeah, that hat is the 57 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: same hat that's taken in the photograph. It's the same 58 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: heat I took in a photograph on the cover, and 59 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: that it's the hat that I've had most of my 60 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: adult life. I was brought in England. It's a classic voter. 61 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: And the floppy one was a Paris hat. That was 62 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: a hat that had been bought in purchased in Paris. 63 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: And I don't have that sloppy one, the early one, 64 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: I don't know where it may have. It be a 65 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,399 Speaker 1: home in the closet, I'm not sure. But the one 66 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: I have on the cover and then eighty three, it's 67 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: the hat to always travel with me. I've kept it 68 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: all this time and it is my scenature had. I 69 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: love the hat. It's the hat that I think it 70 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: expresses who I am. I think it's classic. I think 71 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: it's it's it's symbolizes jazz, creativity and an elegant Well, 72 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: you know I've worn hats. You know, I don't wear 73 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: hats anymore like I used to. And when I go, 74 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: i'd like several, like three different styles, and you you 75 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: you locked into a signature brand which is commendable, so 76 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: so so, but you had to go through several before 77 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: you got to this one hat here. Yes, well I did, 78 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: I did, I did, as I said. The one of 79 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: the floppy soft floppy one was a very beautiful hat 80 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: from Paris, France who came to me in about the seventies. Well, 81 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: as a child, I was drawn to the hats, and 82 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: I think I had beautiful hats when I was a child, 83 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: like you know, going to church, and not extravagant as 84 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,119 Speaker 1: the straw hats, but you know, felt hats and snow 85 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: caps and steed caps and all that kind of stuff. 86 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: I've always been drawn to a hat. I think it's 87 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: just the exclamation point to your look. Absolutely. You know, 88 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: it's really interesting. In your book you said you found 89 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: your fantasy world in books, records and classical music. Need 90 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: a Samone with the Franklin and in the age of 91 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: twelve of your world became the glossy pages of Vogue. 92 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: Talking about that journey of those because I know that. 93 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: I always tell people you you find yourself when you're young, 94 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: and if you and really, if you understand that's where 95 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: your gifts really are they when you're in your forties 96 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: and fifties, you should be making money money off of 97 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: your gifts. If you do what I did. I did, 98 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: I made money. I got good paychecks in Vogue thirty 99 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: eight ard years. Someone asked me in England on a 100 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: radio show, why aren't you stay there for so long, 101 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: and I said, because of the paychecks. It was a 102 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,239 Speaker 1: good paychecks. Well, you know. And when I discovered Vogue 103 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: magazine and the Durham Public Library, it was a revelation 104 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: to me. It was a world that I was not 105 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: exposed to in my home. And it was a beautiful world, 106 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: as a world of literature, art, music, glamorous people, famous people, 107 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,559 Speaker 1: beautiful people, and it was a world of substance style. 108 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: And I just gravitated towards that. I love Vogue and 109 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: I loved any sort of um tributary that came off 110 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: the river. Vogue Life magazine. Salid Kirkland was a great editor. 111 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: She had great flashion stories, the New York Times fashion supplements. 112 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: So I just I was an only child, and I 113 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: just was pretty much was a loner. And I when 114 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: people playing basketball or baseball, I was in my house 115 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: tearing out the pages of Vogue, not for the beautiful 116 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: pictures only, but for the words. For what the words 117 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: spoke to me, The stories spoke to me, The way 118 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: that people looked in at homes spoke to me, the 119 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: way the men. They had a column called Men in 120 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: Vogue by Camille do A. He was French, he lived 121 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: in New York, and I met him and he just 122 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: to his column men in Vogue. This is just where 123 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to be. They were velvet jackets, they wore 124 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: shirts with ruffles, they were velvet slippers, and it was 125 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: all very much what I wanted to be. And I 126 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: dreamed about this world, and I suddenly was thrust into 127 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: this world. I went to Vogue as a news editor. 128 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: I was promoted to create a director Vogue. Well, I 129 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: don't want to get the Vogue yet, because your journey 130 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: to Vogue is an interesting one. And that's what it's 131 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: a compelling one because in the book you talk about 132 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: you know, we're I don't talk about it. These are 133 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: actual dealing with racism, dealing with rumors, dealing with lives, 134 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: deal with name calling and all that. But let's even 135 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: go further back, when you're in your youth, when you 136 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: when your your parents brought you from DC to live 137 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: with your great grandmother and your grandmother and grandmother grandmother. 138 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: Tell us about that experience, because that's where your faith 139 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: really was. Growing up in my grandmother's house and the 140 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: only child, I was pampered, I was spoiled. I was 141 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: was that a good thing was that a good good thing. 142 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: You're being pampered and spoil. Was that a good thing? Yes? 143 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: It was good? Was purchase spoiled? But also I was 144 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: given the great lessons of life an example such as values, church, discipline. 145 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: And I had chores. I had to make up my 146 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: bed perfectly as Michelle Obama daughter daughters, to make up 147 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: the beds perfectly in the White House. I had to 148 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: polish the floors with Johnson's spacewax. I had to go 149 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: outside in the woods and chop the woods for the fires. 150 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: And when I was very young, we had we did 151 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: not have electric stough. We didn't get an electric stove 152 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: to about the sixties, right, And my great grandmother and 153 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: my grandma always thinking on a iron a cast iron stove. 154 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: And I will never forget that stow was about fifty 155 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: eight and that stove had to be constantly stoked with 156 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: wood and coal. And I would go out and have 157 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: to get the color scuttle for cold even in the snow, 158 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,119 Speaker 1: in the cold weather, and stoked that wood burning stove. 159 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: That stove heated the kitchen. It had a side um 160 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: a container where you boiled water, where you had constantly 161 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: hot boiling water for the house for house flow duties. 162 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: So this was a very important thing in my life. 163 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: And so all these chores just led to to the 164 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: good conservative, old fashioned values and clarities that people have 165 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: in the South when they are black and growing up 166 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: in the black segregated jim Growth South. I mean we 167 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: then the Civil Rights Law was signed over the nineteen 168 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: but I grew up in this great household from the 169 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 1: fifties and into sixty three. It by sixty or three 170 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: I was in high school. I think I was in 171 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: the tenth grade. So it was just it was just 172 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: a very wonderful world. Uh. My grandmother, she she was 173 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: a domestic maid at Duke University for fifty years. She 174 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: finally retired and the last thirty years her last she 175 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: was retired, but she just got up and she was 176 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,599 Speaker 1: like a pioneer woman. She was strong. You know, you 177 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: would have these images of pioneer women. These women can 178 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 1: do anything. They can cook, they can squirrel kind of 179 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: grab it, skinner squirrel, make a squirrel, stew Brunswick, still 180 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: out of the squirrel. You know they're killo squirrel. Yeah, 181 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 1: and just do all everything and plus do all the laundry. 182 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: The household laundry, cook clean, scrub, sit down, read her missionary. 183 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: Help get up on Sunday morning, cook, cook a pad 184 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: of biscuits for me before the church, come home after 185 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: church and cook the afternoon supper fried chicken and greens, 186 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: a string beans and sweet potatoes, and just it's just 187 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 1: a simple world. The world was a world that had 188 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: foundations that carried I've carried on throughout my life. So 189 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: so the so the fact that your great grandmother and 190 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: your grandmother raised you and do them that really laid 191 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: the foundation for who you are to day versus your parents. Absolutely, 192 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: but my past were always into my life. My mother 193 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: and father lived in d C. And they were not 194 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: domestic workers. They was a great grade level government workers. 195 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: And they always supported my my upbringing, my schooling, and 196 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: they gave me everything I wanted. They would send money 197 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: down to my grandmother every two weeks from my you 198 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: know books, I had wonderful clothes. I had the first 199 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: set of world book encyclopedias on my street. That was 200 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: I was very proud of that. I could throw it 201 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: all out there come on the day for typewriters, record players, 202 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: and supplement allowance so I could then go to stop 203 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: going to the library to read Vogue. I would go 204 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: by Vogue. It came out twice a month in the sixties. 205 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: This is really published on the first and the fifteenth 206 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: of every month, and that was the feat. And I 207 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: would go across town on Sundays when it was coming 208 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 1: out the magazine. I looked forward. That was my big 209 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, outing to go buy Vogue magazine. So I 210 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: think I had a privileged upbringing, although I was in 211 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: a very restrained space in the world of blackness, in 212 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: the segregated South. But but in that the whole process, 213 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: the creative process, you know, when I want. That's all 214 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: this just keeps. You were allowed to be you. Yes, yeah, 215 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: you're perfectly, you said perfectly. I was allowed to be me. 216 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: My grandmother did not. As long as I did the 217 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: right thing, I could just see anything. My grandmother gave 218 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: me free reign. And I sat back and I had 219 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: a room with my own and I read Vogue, and 220 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: I listened to Laura Nie you know, Leoo, Nina Simone, Mozart, Beethoven, 221 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 1: Mi Haleo Jackson. I listened to my records. I had 222 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: my own world and books, books for my friends. I 223 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: had some friends, but books for my friends. And Vogue 224 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: was my friends. I mean, I I lived for Vogue magazine. 225 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: Now you but you talk about some nasty kids and bullying, 226 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: and when we look back on you know, everybody thinks 227 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: like bullying and started no recently bullying. No no, no, no, 228 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: no no no that it was awful. But you know what, 229 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: when when I go back home now and see my 230 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 1: friends I've maintained good friends from high school, I can 231 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 1: look at them and say, hey, look look at me. Now, 232 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: how you doing. I'm doing. I'm out of the world. 233 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: You know. I've got a book. I've had a documentary 234 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: called Gospel. According to Andre I went there and showed 235 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: it in the hillside of high school. I showed it 236 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: in one of their great weeks. They had me there 237 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: for three days. We showed the film, We had events 238 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 1: around it. They gave me the man, gave me the 239 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: see to the kidding and a proclamation, etcetera, etcetera. So 240 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: you know, when you go to those those high school unions, 241 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: they look I'm okay, I'm okay, you know, and I 242 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: can feel you okay. I like to believe that. Uh. 243 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: One of the money One of the best lines of 244 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: your book was said, you know you in your seventies, 245 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: but you feel like you're twenty nine. That's that's my 246 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: favorite line, because I tell people that, you know, it's 247 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: it's it's a mindset. It's it's how you, how you walk, 248 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: how you communicate. I'm not trying. You're not trying to 249 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: say you being twenty nine. You just said the mentality, 250 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: the mindset. I am fresh. Come on, tell me about it, 251 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: Tell them about it. I wake up every day ready 252 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: to learn something new. I attacked a fresh I'm still 253 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: learning ledge and thank god I had early on this 254 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: passion for books and book reading. When I turned the 255 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: page of a book in this pandemic, if I'm sitting 256 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: down with the book, it is a happy moment for 257 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: me to sit down on my front porch and turn 258 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: the page of a new book that's coming into mail 259 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: from Amazon. I mean, I just got a whole little 260 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: James Baldwin books. I think that James Baldwin, what he 261 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: did and wrote and said in the sixties is so 262 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: relevant today. So all the summer I've been reading everything 263 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: I to get my hands owned by James Balwin, including 264 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: his last interview before he passed away, and that came 265 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: to me last week and I've been just reading and 266 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: I'm just every day you can learn something new. I 267 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: was young. I love fashion. By the way, I always say, 268 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: as Judge Judy says, they don't keep me here for 269 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: my looks. They keep me because I'm smart. Okay, well 270 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: that's my manta. That is my manta. They don't keep 271 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: me here from my looks. They keep you because I'm 272 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: it's smart and in so many ways, you know, learning French, 273 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: which you know, which allows you to go over to France, 274 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: and participating the fluently participate in the fashion world. But 275 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: more important, before we in this break, I wanted to 276 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: talk about you graduated from HBCU North Carolina Central University, 277 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: and uh, was that significant for you then or is 278 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: it more significant for you now that you graduated from HBCU. 279 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: Itchef for me now because I'm proud of that. I 280 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: was out of n cc U and I that's where 281 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: i got the scholarship to go to Brown University. So 282 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm proud of that. It means a lot to me. 283 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: Why did you write this book? Why did you write 284 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: this book? I wrote the book because I felt that 285 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: I was approaching the seventh decade of my life, and 286 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: I felt that I had to leave a legacy recorded 287 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: by me factual. I had so many stories to tell 288 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: that were great. I had so many scars that I 289 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: healed my wounds, healed it. Um. You know, I experienced racism, agism, 290 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: sexism in my career, and I just felt that it 291 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: was important. And it's luckily the book came out of 292 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: the time, the moment when everyone is talking about systemic 293 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: racism in our country, uh, you know, tearing down the monuments, 294 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: the Confederate flag, our terrible president, the whole thing. And Um, 295 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: I felt that I had to write this book because 296 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: I had done it. I had participated in a great 297 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: documentary that came out of me called The Gospel. According 298 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: to Andre, that's the love that I saw from the 299 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: people who watched that documentary, not only famous people, but 300 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: just people in the normal people walking the street. So 301 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: I saw your documentary. I love it so much, so 302 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: much that gave me the confidence to write the book. 303 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: The book was a no brainer from me. I sat 304 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: down and wrote the book all from memory. I don't 305 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: have notes, I don't have diaries, I don't have journals. 306 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: It comes all from my memory bank. Well, you know 307 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: it's really I can tail because it's like a little 308 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: little nuggets you're dropping in. You know, it's finally here, 309 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: the season of celebration. And no matter how you celebrate 310 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: with family and friends, whether you're preparing for Reis Magos 311 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: or Karamu lighting the Manura, are going to midnight mass, 312 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: Coals has just what you need to make those traditions special. 313 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: Plus you'll find gifts for all your loved ones. Send 314 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: warm wishes with Cozy Fleece's sweaters, loungeware, blankets and throws. 315 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: Support minority owned or founded brands by giving gifts from 316 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: Human Nation and Shame moisture, or treat them to everyone's 317 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: favorite activewear from top brands like Nike, Adidas, and under Armor. 318 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: And in the spirit of giving, Coals Cares is donating 319 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: eight million dollars to local nonprofits nationwide committed to the 320 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: health and well being of our communities. No matter how 321 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: you celebrate, when you shop at Coals, you're right where 322 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: you belong. So this season, give with all your heart 323 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: with great gifts from Coals or Coals dot Com. Whether 324 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: your event needed one room or an entire conference center, 325 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: Hoppin has revolutionized the way people come together. With hoppin, 326 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: you can host a fully fledged digital meet up, complete 327 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: with one on one meetings, hands on sessions, and expo booths. 328 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: And because everything is hosted in a single, easy to 329 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: use platform, it can be as big or small as 330 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: you want, remain convenient for anyone who wants to attend, 331 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: and give you access to data you never would have 332 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: known otherwise. Visit hoppin dot com to learn more and 333 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: get started. Still living in and manually taking notes, start 334 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: the new year with outter dot ai to generate automatic 335 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: notes for meetings, interviews, or lectures. With auto dot ai, 336 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: you can search the meeting notes, insert images, play back 337 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 1: the audio, and share them with your friends or coworkers. 338 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: You can capture action items, remember meeting details and keep 339 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: everyone informed. Auto dot ai works for in person or 340 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: virtual meetings like Zoom, Microsoft Teams, and Google meet. Sign 341 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: up for free at auto dot ai or download the 342 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: app for free auto dot ai. That's O T T 343 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: E R dot ai. Like when you come to me, 344 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: did you write? You know? And that that's some beautiful 345 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: people realize when you write the book, you know first 346 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: you're just right out and the general thoughts that you 347 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: remember you know the layers story dropping in there, like 348 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: when you were shopping in pairs with Diana Ross. That's right, 349 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: tell us about that. What a moment. That was a 350 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: revelation for me. Donna Ross. The first time I ever 351 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: met Donna Ross, I was saving lunch with her in 352 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: Paris at this famous restaurant called Maxines. It's been I 353 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: know that I've eaten there. I've eat there. Yeah. And 354 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: for people who don't know that it's in films, Maxines 355 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: has been in films of the film Gig, a great 356 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: Technicolor film in the fifties. Maxines is a moment of style. 357 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: And on a Saturday morning, we were going into Maxines, 358 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: Benny Cadrew and Francois Cattrew and I and Pia card 359 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: and Diana Ross was coming in for lunch and she 360 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: came in with this amazing for co to the ground. 361 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: We had lunch and we went straight to the jeweler 362 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: store and I was so impressed because it was the 363 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: first time I had ever witnessed. You know, I was young, 364 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: I was in Paris, I was twenty seven. Our black 365 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: woman went into a very fancy jewelry store in Paris 366 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: of a vote ball. They didn't asked for a credit card. 367 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: They said yes, Ms. They knew she was Miss Ross. 368 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: Of course this could have been an impostor drag queen. 369 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,959 Speaker 1: They sent the jewels to a hotel. No checks were issued, 370 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: no bill of sale, no questions, Miss Ross. You will 371 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: get these bracelets in your hotel by five o'clock. And 372 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: you know, of course they would. They did. They She 373 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: asked what the prices were, and then she turned and 374 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: she said, would you like a little present? And I said, oh, no, 375 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: thank you, no, thank you? No said no, come on, 376 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: you said no. Well, you weren't allowed to take gift. 377 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: My company was one, so I thought if I got 378 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: a bracelet from Donna Ross and they see, they tired me. 379 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: So it was ethically incorrected me to take the bracelet. 380 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: But I was so impressed that a woman of color 381 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: could go into Paris, walk into a store, no matter, 382 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: and just be respected the way Donna Ross was. They 383 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: didn't say, oh, may we see your credit cards? Or 384 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: maybe we see your identity? They maybe see your passport, 385 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: We could we call your bank. It was a sadday afternoon. 386 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: They recognized her and they said, Ms. Ross, these will 387 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: be delivered to you this evening for you to wear 388 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 1: for what we were going out that night for dinner. 389 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: And they were delivered and she came to Dynner these bracelets. 390 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: I tell you, I'm talking to Andre Leon Tally and 391 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: the book The chefon Trenches. Andrea, I like to believe 392 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: that it all kind of started for you in eighteen 393 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: seventy four at the Metropolitan Museum or Art Institute, and 394 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: a fantastic take lady who took you under the wing. 395 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: I want to say her name, Diane Freeland Daneland, Diane Lander, Diane. 396 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: I know I had to get that name right there, 397 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: because this day, this young lady, she's the juice for you, man, 398 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: She's the juice. She she was. She was the Empress, 399 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: the oracle, she was the mountain top. She was the 400 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: most important fashion woman at her time. She was the 401 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: fashion editor Vogue from sixty one to seventy one. She'd 402 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: been at Harper's FAA for twenty eight years as the 403 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: only senior fashion editor. She made images that are now 404 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: legendary US are and in Vogue, and everyone who is 405 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: anyone who's in fashion today or who wants to say 406 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: they've got styled, had to be approved by Diana Freeland, 407 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: and there I was half volunteer in seventy four for 408 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: six weeks on a show called Hollywood Design, where I 409 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: learned everything from Diana Freeland. I mean, there's a school 410 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: of realing, and in school is You don't go to 411 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: school and get her a certificate. You just be in 412 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 1: her presence and you learned by listening. I learned from 413 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: her by listening the way she described clothes, the way 414 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: she described the linings. She gave as much focus to 415 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: the lining of addresses she did to the outside of 416 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: a dress. Her shoes were polished with the souls of 417 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: her shoes, not the uppers. Her souls were polished with 418 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: her hinocerous form. I don't know why, but her souls 419 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: of her shoes were polished like the oppers her with 420 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: five dollar bills. They didn't have uber cars and limos 421 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: at the curb. People took taxis. In New York. Her maid, 422 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: French Yvonne what's her name with part would iron her 423 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: five dollar bills to put in her envelope evening bags 424 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: when she went out for dinner, so she'd have money 425 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: to get a cab home. She had her newspapers ironed 426 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: so she didn't want to read the wrinkled newspaper in 427 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: the bath up she had the newspapers on. She had 428 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: the souls of her shoes. Pol Now what it sounds superficial, 429 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: but what is does that stand for? Discipline? Maintenance, cleanliness 430 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: is close to godliness. This is what she stood for. 431 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: These were rituals that came from an Edwardian. She grew 432 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: up at the end of the nineteen nineties in Paris, 433 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: and this is just the kind of ritual that she 434 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: believed in the way my grandma believed in waxing apology 435 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: floors with pastewax. These are the things you do to 436 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: keep yourself up, to keep your keep your values up. 437 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: You you see apology floor, you're happy. She grew up 438 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: when she was she was born in eighteen nineties, so 439 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: she srew up at the end of the Aedwardian area 440 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: that was like in Paris, so the Ballot Park. She 441 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: that she was a young girl at the Bellot Parc, 442 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: you know, when they had Cortis on the coronations of 443 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: the King, and she saw all these wonderful things and 444 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: she she just loved the horses and the way the 445 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: horses were decked out, and they were just as decked 446 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: out as the people, the saddles and the reins and 447 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: the horse riders. Everything she described was so narrative. She 448 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: told every dress in an exhibit would have a story 449 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: behind it because every dress, who is wearing his dress? 450 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: Where does she wear it? Who was she? And what 451 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: does she mean through the world. That's what you know. 452 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: The interesting thing in reading your book with every page 453 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: I turned was a nugget to me, and really, you know, 454 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: golden nugget. I hope a golden golden is no I 455 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: empire right here, my friend, this is golden nuggets. He Okay, 456 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: So you know I said when I when I say 457 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: that is the fact that it could have been expanded more. 458 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: It could have been more than just Rashan. There's a 459 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: third book in me because I had the contract and 460 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: I'm proud of the contract I had from Pendom thing 461 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: when rabbing the Valentime. But the contract said I only 462 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: had to write eighty thousands words. I could have written 463 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,719 Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty. But this is the book they 464 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: wanted to They wanted to publish a book for a 465 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: certain size and you know the format. But I could 466 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: have written a hundred and sixty thousand, I could have 467 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: still have been writing to this day and still could 468 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: be writing, because that's there's interesting stories like you know, 469 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: like the whole period when you started out of course, 470 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, and then uh you basically was starving. Then 471 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: that Christmas period when when she told you not that, 472 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: don't go home, she said, don't go home, don't go home. 473 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: There's nothing at home, and it's really true. You know, 474 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: when you go back, man kind of breaks your vague, 475 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: breaks your motivation. You fall back and old habits, and 476 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: that's what she's telling you. And then that whole Parish run, 477 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: which is a genius period of your life, I feel, 478 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: because the zenous moment of my life because of the 479 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: fact that first of all, your black man, tall black 480 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: man speaking, only one on the front road, the only 481 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: person in the front road black. But then but then 482 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: that's when it turns dark in your life, you know, 483 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: the star because people of jealous and racism has come fast. 484 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: People calling me Queen Kong. Yes, allegedly, one girl called 485 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: me Queen Kong. And it took the Palma Picasso, the 486 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: daughter of the famous artist Casso, to tell me, and 487 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 1: she said, you know, this girl is going around Paris 488 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: and call you Queen Kong and people are laughing at you, 489 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: but I love you, and I said okay, and then 490 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: I just kept that bottle up. And I never told 491 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: me anyone about that until I had this documentary and 492 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: I sat down and talked about it in the Vogue 493 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: archives and I revealed that in twenty seventeen. And this 494 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: this was a hurting thing. You know, this was hurting me. 495 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: And then one of my bosses came and said, one 496 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: day I stood up in the office and said, we 497 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: heard you ben sleeping whatever designer in Paris men and 498 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: women And I thought, well, God, that's that's what I 499 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: would be, so busy am I study what is this? 500 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: And then I realized how racists was. I recently had 501 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: an email from the man saying what a great book 502 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: it was, but he didn't know at that time how 503 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: hurtfully was you know what I did. I went off 504 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: and in the weeks later I resigned. I quit Women's 505 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: with Daily and the door was open and I wouldn't 506 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: have gotten to vote had I stayed in Women's but 507 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: Daily in a position that I was in because I 508 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: thought this story is gonna close, I went to the 509 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: Madland Church this is a church where Joe swine Baker 510 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: was funeralized in Paris. Then the three candles, right yeah, 511 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: I lit the candles and I went back, wrote my 512 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: letter of resignation, had it notarized at the British American 513 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: Embassy the American town Flip, and then receipt sent it 514 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: to the office because I thought I was smart. I 515 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: thought I'd better have this letter to prove that I 516 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: resigned and wasn't fired, because you know, they could say, 517 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: oh well Andre was You know there was no money 518 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: missing from the pettycash and they were already accused of 519 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: me of stealing sketches from east and around and back 520 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: office based on your relationship with DaVinci Right yeah, yeah, yeah, 521 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:56,640 Speaker 1: thank you. Don't give it right? Are you gonna give 522 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: it right now? It's your world? Keep me, keep me rolling, right. 523 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: I'm afraid. I ready to go, but I know I 524 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: was gonna throw out one name, Badge, You're gonna correct 525 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: me off. I save you. Oh I love it. I 526 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: love it. You know that when your times you gotta 527 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 1: say the name try. You can't go say you don't 528 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: like the girls said safe verstafe birthstaye ye. Oh my god. 529 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: I love it. You know, it's one part of the book. 530 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: I loved that. I want to talk about your experience 531 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: when you went to for one year only everybody, and 532 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: that was a great moment for me. That was you know, 533 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I loved. I love I'll tell 534 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: you why I loved it. You said, Okay, they didn't 535 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: know what your family didn't know anything about what you 536 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: were doing in Paris. But once they found out you 537 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: work forever and yet our baby, that made it. Baby 538 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: that they made it. He made it, he made I 539 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: made it. That was the greatest year. Mrs Johnson was 540 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: a great woman. She was a fabulous lady. Oh my goodness, 541 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: Mrs Johnson, I learned someone. She has a style. And 542 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, she started the Havny Fashion Fair idea and 543 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: she took it all through all over the country to 544 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: Virgin Islands. These fashion shows, she showed the world what 545 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: style could be. Her fashion fair shows were legendary and 546 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: she would go to Paris and buy all these extraordinary clothes. 547 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: She didn't sit buy a little doll suit. She knew 548 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: that the people when they went him to show, they 549 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: wanted to see extravagance, fantasy. She'd buy the most extract 550 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: extraordinary pieces and paid for them for a price. And 551 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: she started doing it in the fifties. So before I 552 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: got to Paris, she was the only black person on 553 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: the front row, and they respected her pocketbook and her 554 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: style and her expertise. She was highly respected and revered 555 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: in the world of fashion in Paris. Mr sell arom Mrs. 556 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: When I got to Ebony magazine, Mr Johnson said to me, 557 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: and you've got to get me a picture. What do 558 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: you sell a wrong? I want to have a picture 559 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: with you, and he sell a wrong and I saw 560 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: looks war. She hired me just to get that picture. Well, 561 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: it's the first time you went the pats on the concorde. Backstage, 562 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: I had the picture with the cell aron and Mrs 563 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: Johnson and myself, and I had that boto on. I 564 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: had that same hat on with round George your money 565 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: suit Copton side had that hat on. Well, let me skip. 566 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: I know we're running a time, but I had to 567 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: get this one story. And then I'm mad because I 568 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: looked at there's no picture of you wearing this, So 569 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: I was kind of mad at you. Here it was 570 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: it was the when you when you broke code and 571 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: you went to this black Tide event wearing that gown 572 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: over the shirt in those gray sacks. Yeah, back bathrop, 573 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: bathroom bath. Carlos cash me a bathroom breasting down and 574 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: I had to go across. I didn't have time to 575 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: go home and change, and carl said, put this on. 576 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: This is will go. We gotta get take one of 577 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: my white shirts I had on great trips where one 578 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: of my white shirts in a black time. It was 579 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: a scandal. Everyone everyone went to Maccines. Everyone in time. 580 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: It was a scandal. A black man and a black 581 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: side dinner in Maccines with a dressing gown on. I listen, 582 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: it wasn't just a bathrobe. It was a Kashmir black 583 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: pipe in satin friends silk, satin tassels, and it was dope. 584 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: And I walked into Macines and the Red Sea party 585 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: and the jaws dropped. Oh of Paris. And the next 586 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: day I got on the phone with my best friend 587 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: better Cat. She says, Andre, you don't even know. That's 588 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: all they talked about. They are a shock, but it's 589 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: very amusing. It was a sort of social scandal. And 590 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: I don't have any pictures of because no one thought 591 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: to take pictures. That was someone drew it, Carl drewid. 592 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: But I don't know what that drawing is. It's probably 593 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: the spirit. You did a drawing on it. The best 594 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: story in the book bear story in the book. And 595 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: I don't have a photo want my favorite photo. I'm 596 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: gonna just let you know. That was a page of 597 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: one seventy seven when you Splendid molten is shot in 598 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: Paris and June or thirteen. That picture right there, my friend, 599 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: I hope you have that framed in your home. That 600 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: is you have the your You're on the balcony and uh, 601 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: your Rafloren dinner suit. I go, oh my god, oh 602 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: my god, oh my god, oh my god, andret all 603 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: those clothes, all those closes here. That right there, that's 604 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: a bad of anybody. That's a bad look right there. 605 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: But that is pure that I have made, my man, 606 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: because I've been in Paris. I you got the I 607 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: want to thank you for coming on my show. I 608 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed our conversation, enjoy talking to you, and 609 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,959 Speaker 1: I want to come back in your show. Absolutely absolutely, 610 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: thank you, my friend. You stay safe out there and 611 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: I keep I'll support this on my social media. I 612 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: supported on my fan club. Get the word out plus 613 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: my wife know you Okay, thank you for your wife, 614 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: thank you, my friend, by bye, thank you bye bye. 615 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: I'm Rashan McDonald. Hi. If you want to hear more 616 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: money Making Conversation interviews, please please go to Money Making 617 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: Conversation dot com. I'm Rashan McDonald. I'm your host. In 618 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: this season of giving, Coals has gifts for all your 619 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: loved ones. For those who like to keep it cozy, 620 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: find fleeces, sweaters, loungeware, blankets and throws. Or support minority 621 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: owned or founded brands by giving gifts from Human Nation 622 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: and Shame moisture. And in the spirit of giving, Coals 623 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: Cares is donating eight million dollars to local nonprofits nationwide. 624 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,959 Speaker 1: Give with all your heart this season with great gifts 625 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: from Coals or Coals dot com. Still living in manually 626 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: taking notes, There is a better way to start the 627 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: new year with auto dot ai. Automatically get meeting notes. 628 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: Auto dot ai works for virtual meetings like Zoom, Microsoft Teams, 629 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: and Google Meet. Sign up on the web for free 630 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: or download in the app stores. Auto dot ai. That's 631 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: O T T E R. Dot ai. Look for your 632 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: children's eyes, and you will discover the true magic of 633 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: a forest. Find a forest near you and start exploring it. 634 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: Discover the forest dot org brought to you by the 635 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 1: United States Forest Service and the ad Council