1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,800
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the host, guests,

2
00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,240
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,840
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

5
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:27,120
Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Tuesday, January sixth nes we

6
00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,480
Speaker 2: have a stacked night of headlines.

7
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,159
Speaker 3: Who's with me? The Tuesday has hit hard.

8
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:33,360
Speaker 4: I don't know if you.

9
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,200
Speaker 2: Are all getting back into the real world and Craven

10
00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,080
Speaker 2: the holidays back, but welcome. We're so glad we made

11
00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,600
Speaker 2: it to this evening. Listen, we have a potential suspect

12
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:48,680
Speaker 2: that's been identified on surveillance camera in the double homicide.

13
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,280
Speaker 3: We definitely need some answers there.

14
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,520
Speaker 2: And the trial begins for the officer who failed to

15
00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,720
Speaker 2: act promptly in the Uvaldi killing. You know, obviously so

16
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,720
Speaker 2: many children's lives were lost. Also, we're unpacking the chilling

17
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 2: ideology that is believed to have been had by Jeffrey Epstein,

18
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,160
Speaker 2: the pedophile. It is fascinating. Boddy and I are going

19
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,360
Speaker 2: to do a deep dive there. And plus the tale

20
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,319
Speaker 2: of the famous Mommy influencer who turned out to be

21
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,320
Speaker 2: a bit of a convicted child abuser. We're going to

22
00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,120
Speaker 2: unpack that story as well. Perhaps you've seen the doc.

23
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,880
Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker here as always with my two favorite ladies,

24
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,840
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and yet we have

25
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 2: a stack night with the boys as well.

26
00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:38,280
Speaker 3: Sam and Adam are in the.

27
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,680
Speaker 2: Control room, and of course we have Taha in the

28
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,440
Speaker 2: hot seat keeping us in line, our favorite producer. And listen, ladies,

29
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,480
Speaker 2: it has been an eventful day in the world. Work

30
00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 2: has been super busy for I'm sure all of us today.

31
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,040
Speaker 3: I can only speak for myself.

32
00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,280
Speaker 2: So now we get to take it down a notch

33
00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,400
Speaker 2: and I am so happy to be with you guys.

34
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,960
Speaker 3: So Courtney take it away.

35
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,120
Speaker 5: Where should we begin, Well, I think we should start

36
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 5: with the Ohio case and the dentist and his wife

37
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:12,399
Speaker 5: that you mentioned. So investigators indeed have released surveillance footage

38
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,080
Speaker 5: of a hooded person of interest and that person was

39
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,079
Speaker 5: seen near the home of Spencer and Monique Tepe. The

40
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,919
Speaker 5: dentist and his wife were found murdered in their home

41
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:24,880
Speaker 5: in Ohio just on.

42
00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,639
Speaker 4: December thirtieth, so only a week ago.

43
00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,240
Speaker 5: And thirty seven year old Spencer Tepi and thirty nine

44
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,560
Speaker 5: year old Monique were found fatally shot inside their Columbus,

45
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,920
Speaker 5: Ohio home. This was after police responded to a welfare

46
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,520
Speaker 5: check request. Their two very very young children in ages

47
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,799
Speaker 5: one and four, were discovered physically unharmed, although crying inside

48
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,440
Speaker 5: the home. Authorities are investigating the deaths as homicide because

49
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 5: there was no weapon found at the scene. So the

50
00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,400
Speaker 5: police released this footage and you can see the hidden

51
00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,040
Speaker 5: person of interest. They're walking through a snowy alley right

52
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,960
Speaker 5: near the home of the Teppies. And this was during

53
00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,359
Speaker 5: the time window when investigators believe the killings occurred, which

54
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:10,399
Speaker 5: is between two.

55
00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:11,239
Speaker 4: And five a m.

56
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,960
Speaker 5: So this individual has is wearing a dark cooted sweatshirt

57
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,920
Speaker 5: and lighter colored pants. Their face is obscured, the hands

58
00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,919
Speaker 5: are in their pockets, and this individual is moving calmly

59
00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,079
Speaker 5: and doesn't seem visibly urgent or rushing.

60
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,119
Speaker 2: And there is we've also been coming home from a bar.

61
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,840
Speaker 2: You know, this could just be a person who just

62
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,160
Speaker 2: happens to be walking by.

63
00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 4: Well, hopefully that person will come forward and be like, yeah,

64
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,480
Speaker 4: that's me. I lived down the street and I was

65
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,080
Speaker 4: walking you know. Hopefull sure, yeah, if I saw myself

66
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,400
Speaker 4: be like, oh my gosh, I was drinking. I didn't

67
00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:46,560
Speaker 4: want to drive. I walked home.

68
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, that's so true, And that's exactly actually

69
00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,080
Speaker 5: what the victim, Spencer Teppe's brother in law said that.

70
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,520
Speaker 5: You know, he publicly commented on the footage and saying, yeah,

71
00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:02,360
Speaker 5: the figure appears suspicious, but could be unrelated walking home

72
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,840
Speaker 5: and they added, he added, possibly from a bar, So

73
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,760
Speaker 5: I would imagine there has to be one very nearby.

74
00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,280
Speaker 4: There's one portion of.

75
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,600
Speaker 5: The video and you can see the person of interest

76
00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 5: they briefly raise their right arm toward their face while

77
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,320
Speaker 5: they're walking, and their back is to the camera.

78
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:19,839
Speaker 4: So it's pure speculation.

79
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,520
Speaker 5: Some people are thinking, if this is a person of interest,

80
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,440
Speaker 5: they were trying to, you know, put their back to

81
00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 5: the camera and hide their face.

82
00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,800
Speaker 4: Seemed that way they were looking down like to when

83
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:30,479
Speaker 4: they were walking.

84
00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,640
Speaker 2: Doled it's so and it's nighttime and the wind that

85
00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,520
Speaker 2: we're in Ohio, you can see the snow on the ground.

86
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 3: I got to tell you too, two questions.

87
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,240
Speaker 2: One, if you're the person in that video and you

88
00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,080
Speaker 2: were walking home from the bar because you were you

89
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,919
Speaker 2: didn't want to drive, you were just you know, responsible, yes, exactly,

90
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,840
Speaker 2: being a responsible citizen. Do you say to authorities that's

91
00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 2: me or are you nervous that they're going to somehow

92
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:00,760
Speaker 2: rope you into this?

93
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 4: I say that that was me.

94
00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 5: You can have footage of me drinking at said bar

95
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:13,200
Speaker 5: and I don't know Spencer or Monique Tepe and check

96
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:14,200
Speaker 5: my hands for residue.

97
00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would do. I would absolutely come forward one

98
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,359
Speaker 4: hundred percent. And not only that because now too, I

99
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,400
Speaker 4: don't want police wasting resources looking for me. I haven't

100
00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 4: done anything, you know what I mean? Like I want

101
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,560
Speaker 4: the true spend resources looking for the right person. Like,

102
00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 4: stop looking at this camera thing. It's nothing to do

103
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:30,960
Speaker 4: with it.

104
00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:37,400
Speaker 2: Okay, good, that was a little test and well done,

105
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,920
Speaker 2: well done, very well done. But by the way, again,

106
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,560
Speaker 2: this was a very grisly crime. You know, multiple gunshot

107
00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:50,359
Speaker 2: wounds to dad and you know mom less. So is

108
00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 2: there something to be gleaned from that that it seemed

109
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,400
Speaker 2: as though there was a bit more of an overkill

110
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,719
Speaker 2: on on Dad. Is that possible as a dentist? And

111
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,640
Speaker 2: how there no fingerprints? You know, there doesn't appear to

112
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,719
Speaker 2: be any forced entry. But in today's day and age,

113
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,960
Speaker 2: what we know about you know, fingerprints in DNA, some

114
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 2: sort of entry. It wasn't a massive house. It looked

115
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,520
Speaker 2: like a very beautiful home, and obviously they built a

116
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,400
Speaker 2: very beautiful life for themselves. But you know, in order

117
00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,160
Speaker 2: to sneak in there and not leave any fingerprints with

118
00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:27,080
Speaker 2: babies potentially crying so close by, that's a crime that,

119
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,800
Speaker 2: you know. I can't believe they got away with it.

120
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,120
Speaker 2: And hours and hours had maybe gone by and nobody

121
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 2: heard anything, And nobody heard anything. The neighbors are all

122
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,280
Speaker 2: very close.

123
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,760
Speaker 4: Kind of situation used, you know, like these are you

124
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 4: know what I'm thinking, was this like a hit?

125
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:44,200
Speaker 6: Yeah?

126
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:45,839
Speaker 4: You know, it was my question.

127
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,440
Speaker 5: Too, or on the thirtieth and this hasn't come up

128
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,560
Speaker 5: in anything I read. I don't know if in Ohio

129
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,719
Speaker 5: it's common to have fireworks around the New Year, so

130
00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,160
Speaker 5: pops like in Los Angeles with any kind of.

131
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,080
Speaker 2: Baby point by the way, I feel like I hear

132
00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,200
Speaker 2: that often, right, we hear what seems like fireworks or

133
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,840
Speaker 2: something maybe exploding in the distance or being tested. Yeah,

134
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,840
Speaker 2: we all get so desensitized to not call authority. So yeah,

135
00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,920
Speaker 2: I mean it's really troubling. I can't believe how many

136
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 2: days have now passed. We're going on a week now,

137
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 2: no real answers, and a really a beloved couple in

138
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,480
Speaker 2: the community. They obviously had very close friends and family.

139
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,720
Speaker 2: It sounds as though the one and four year old

140
00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,000
Speaker 2: thankfully are in good care with a family member, and

141
00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,240
Speaker 2: I just think if anybody has information, please reach out immediately.

142
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:37,720
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely.

143
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 5: Also, there's a go Fundme fundraiser that was established to

144
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:46,000
Speaker 5: support the couple's children and just really reflecting the huge

145
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,760
Speaker 5: community support for this family and the tragedy. More than

146
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,280
Speaker 5: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars has been raised, which

147
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,960
Speaker 5: I think is just worth noting that people want to

148
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,840
Speaker 5: show their support. But there's it's all questions really at

149
00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,200
Speaker 5: this point, and it really does seem like this was

150
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:09,240
Speaker 5: a beloved couple, both Spencer and Monique Tepe, with multiple

151
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:15,720
Speaker 5: concerned friends, acquaintances, and work colleagues calling that morning saying

152
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 5: I can get a hold of this couple. Spencer was

153
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 5: due at his dental office for work and must have

154
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,040
Speaker 5: been incredibly reliable exactly.

155
00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,560
Speaker 4: Well, I mean might have had patients waiting too.

156
00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,600
Speaker 2: Write like, yeah, again, we're in the holidays, so maybe

157
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,360
Speaker 2: people were traveling and you know, everybody gets a little

158
00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,040
Speaker 2: bit out of their schedule. But man, I mean, these

159
00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,960
Speaker 2: are multiple gunshots in a room where there's you know,

160
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,920
Speaker 2: children nearby. This is a very violent crime. There doesn't

161
00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,360
Speaker 2: appear to be any forced entry.

162
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:45,920
Speaker 3: How is that possible.

163
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,439
Speaker 2: We have to just keep a close eye and hopefully,

164
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,720
Speaker 2: hopefully we get some answers soon.

165
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,640
Speaker 4: Did you guys see the details of some of the

166
00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:58,160
Speaker 4: nine one one calls were released? Yeah, years earlier.

167
00:08:58,240 --> 00:08:59,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, they hard to hear.

168
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:00,320
Speaker 7: Yeah.

169
00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,360
Speaker 4: One of the callers that called at nine fifty six

170
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,480
Speaker 4: called and said, I can hear kids inside and I

171
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,240
Speaker 4: swear I think I heard one yell, but we can't

172
00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:10,880
Speaker 4: get in At this point, I don't know if I

173
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:12,600
Speaker 4: need to break the door or just get in the

174
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,560
Speaker 4: house or what I mean, Like, what would you do

175
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,760
Speaker 4: in that situation, because like, you can hear kids. And

176
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 4: then at ten oh three when they called back, you know,

177
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,640
Speaker 4: because time had passed and they had shown up yet.

178
00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,560
Speaker 4: One of Spencer's friends called at ten oh three saying

179
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,120
Speaker 4: they came to the house to do a wellness check.

180
00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,520
Speaker 4: They could see a body and this is what he said. Well,

181
00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,320
Speaker 4: it doesn't it doesn't say it's a boy girl, but

182
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,280
Speaker 4: there's a body. The person could be heard saying, our

183
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,520
Speaker 4: friend wasn't answering his phone. We just did a wellness check.

184
00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,760
Speaker 4: We came here and he appears dead. He's laying next

185
00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,960
Speaker 4: to his bed, off of his bed, in his in

186
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,960
Speaker 4: this blood. I can't get any closer to see more.

187
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,720
Speaker 6: But if you heard a child, I mean, would you

188
00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,079
Speaker 6: pick down the door or break the glass and try

189
00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:57,480
Speaker 6: to get in?

190
00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,720
Speaker 4: Yeah?

191
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you assume that you would, you know, find

192
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,920
Speaker 2: something and smash the windows. But you know, these are

193
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,760
Speaker 2: really extreme circumstances that you don't assume you're going to

194
00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,560
Speaker 2: be in. You're just you know, checking on a friend

195
00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,760
Speaker 2: hoping they don't have the flu. You don't assume you're

196
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,120
Speaker 2: going to walk into a crime scene, right God.

197
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, So we'll see what information does come out, and

198
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,720
Speaker 5: you know, Stephanie, who knows there may be you know,

199
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,120
Speaker 5: there may be other footage or you know, some other

200
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:28,920
Speaker 5: kind of evidence that's being held.

201
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 4: We don't know.

202
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true. Well, our hearts are

203
00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,920
Speaker 2: with their family, obviously, and with a devastating way to

204
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:35,680
Speaker 2: start the new year.

205
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,000
Speaker 4: Right, this is your grime Tonight on iHeartRadio, i'mbody moving

206
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,400
Speaker 4: here with court in step we're right in the middle

207
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,599
Speaker 4: of talking about the Columbus, Ohio double murder of the

208
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,960
Speaker 4: dentist and his beautiful wife. Give us a call eighty

209
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,480
Speaker 4: eight thirty one Crime if you want to weigh in,

210
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,240
Speaker 4: or if you have any ideas, I'd love to hear him.

211
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,760
Speaker 4: But yeah, this has just been a really, really sad situation.

212
00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,320
Speaker 4: But let's go to talk back.

213
00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:57,800
Speaker 6: Hi ladies, Happy New Years.

214
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,360
Speaker 8: I just wanted to thank you for using your time

215
00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,560
Speaker 8: and talent to take a good look at crime in America.

216
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,359
Speaker 8: I think that level of civil engagement in our democracy

217
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,280
Speaker 8: makes us country better for everybody.

218
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:17,760
Speaker 4: Thanks so much. From Sebastian in Rhode Island. Question already

219
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,920
Speaker 4: not all like hopped up so patriotic now, you know,

220
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:24,080
Speaker 4: it's a hard line.

221
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,560
Speaker 2: We ask ourselves this and if we get it wrong,

222
00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,120
Speaker 2: feel free to let us know because you know we're

223
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,359
Speaker 2: also a work in progress.

224
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:32,640
Speaker 4: Of course you are.

225
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,600
Speaker 2: But like you know, it's hard to sort of unpack

226
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,120
Speaker 2: some of these stories without it feeling like we're dipping

227
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,760
Speaker 2: into political places. You know that none of us are

228
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,160
Speaker 2: not only equipped, you know, obviously we're Americans, yes, which

229
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,840
Speaker 2: makes us you know, we're in it, But that's there's

230
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 2: no agenda, so you know, we are trying to make

231
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,559
Speaker 2: sure that we're always you know, hearing all perspectives, so

232
00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,920
Speaker 2: you know, we're evolving real time. I feel like I

233
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,480
Speaker 2: grow so much every night just by listening to you guys, same.

234
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,719
Speaker 4: Little smarty pants. I like hearing different people. I like.

235
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 4: I like talking to people who I disagree with, you

236
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,560
Speaker 4: know what I mean? Like because I feel like if

237
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,000
Speaker 4: you listen with an open mind and not if you

238
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,839
Speaker 4: really listen and not just wait for your turn to talk,

239
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,160
Speaker 4: so true, you know, I feel like you can really absorb,

240
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,400
Speaker 4: you know, what the other person is saying and maybe

241
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,640
Speaker 4: even get a different, you know, outlook on something. So

242
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,640
Speaker 4: I think it's really important to have conversations, even even

243
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,960
Speaker 4: though we're not, you know, equipped to talk about this

244
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,720
Speaker 4: kind of stuff. Sometimes with the politics, it is interesting

245
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,960
Speaker 4: sometimes to hear somebody else's perspective. Yeah, And perspective is

246
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,600
Speaker 4: so powerful. It's like the best tool we all have.

247
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,480
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, we're allowed to have some

248
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,880
Speaker 2: space to get it wrong or grow or have our

249
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,080
Speaker 2: opinions change. Speaking for myself, that's something that I really

250
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,760
Speaker 2: am trying to stay open to this year. Me too,

251
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,160
Speaker 2: so than ever of who cares what I ever thought before.

252
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,240
Speaker 2: Like I am open to, you know, to the newness.

253
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,600
Speaker 2: I find myself really down the middle of the road

254
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,040
Speaker 2: these days, and maybe sometimes a little loss in this

255
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,959
Speaker 2: sauce in terms of starting from scratching to what we believe.

256
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think that's okay, it absolutely is.

257
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,160
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's honestly a sign of a

258
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,679
Speaker 5: healthy and evolved mind. If it's a changeable one. If

259
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 5: it's not, then that just says it's fixed.

260
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,560
Speaker 3: And yeah, you're talking to a hamsand I.

261
00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,600
Speaker 4: Feel like there's certain things I'm very fixed on though,

262
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,200
Speaker 4: Like I'm not changing my mind about this specific thing ever.

263
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,880
Speaker 4: And I think like cheese, I don't know, like it's

264
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:38,080
Speaker 4: like pub cheese, yes, pub cheese.

265
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. And of course there's some like baseline things. Yeah,

266
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,360
Speaker 2: an equalist at my core period the end, no matter

267
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:46,480
Speaker 2: what you tell me.

268
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,880
Speaker 3: But you know, from there, I think we're all better together.

269
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,079
Speaker 6: Right And to your point, you learn, like I've listened

270
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,480
Speaker 6: to other people who have different opinions that I do,

271
00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,240
Speaker 6: and I'm like, Okay, I hadn't really looked at it

272
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,360
Speaker 6: that way, And now you're helping these and maybe think

273
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:02,199
Speaker 6: so many I.

274
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,000
Speaker 4: Think sometimes people's ego gets in the way, tah, like

275
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,120
Speaker 4: they're not going to you know, they're right, no matter

276
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,680
Speaker 4: what right, no matter what you say or what evidence

277
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 4: you present. Even with cases, you know, there's sometimes cases

278
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,120
Speaker 4: can get really heated because you know, you can say

279
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,520
Speaker 4: this person is guilty or that person's innocent, and oh

280
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,640
Speaker 4: my goodness, you know, it sparks a big debate and

281
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,320
Speaker 4: then you start beating evidence and people are you know,

282
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 4: it's just it's very it's a very interesting time. And

283
00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:32,560
Speaker 4: I just think it's important to keep your mind open

284
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 4: and accept new ideas when it's presented. If they make

285
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 4: sense to you, yeah, and if they don't, that's okay too.

286
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,119
Speaker 4: And share.

287
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,840
Speaker 6: My New Year's resolution. But I appreciate Sebastian.

288
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 4: Yes, that's so. I feel so patriotic. He said that

289
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:54,240
Speaker 4: we were doing good for the democracy. Okay. Love is

290
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,520
Speaker 4: small but mighty, right, small but mighty, of course, I

291
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:04,040
Speaker 4: love that. While stick around. As Epstein files begin to surface,

292
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,280
Speaker 4: the documents point to a chilling ideology rooted in genetic control,

293
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,080
Speaker 4: and later, a former Uvalley officer goes on trial accused

294
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,320
Speaker 4: of not of what he did, but what he did

295
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,600
Speaker 4: it do keep it right? Here True Tonight.

296
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,080
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

297
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,440
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here as

298
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,440
Speaker 2: always with Courtney Armstrong and Body Move in and listen.

299
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,520
Speaker 2: I know we talk a lot about the Epstein files

300
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 2: in the urgency of the release, but here's a different

301
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,520
Speaker 2: spin on it a little bit. First of all, we

302
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,360
Speaker 2: want to talk about some of the photos that have

303
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,200
Speaker 2: been released. We've been telling you every night that we're

304
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,160
Speaker 2: going to get to the photos, and we never do.

305
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 2: And we also don't want to overtalk the Epstein stuff either,

306
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,360
Speaker 2: So if it gets too much, feel free to raise

307
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 2: your hand and call us eight eight eight three one

308
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,200
Speaker 2: crime or leave us a talkback. We are open to

309
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 2: hear it. But Sebastian, this one's for you. We have

310
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,640
Speaker 2: some politics to discuss. It seems because some of the

311
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,040
Speaker 2: photos that have been released. Listen, a lot of them

312
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,720
Speaker 2: have Bill Clinton in it. What do you make of that?

313
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 4: I mean, are we surprised, No, But it's weird to

314
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,640
Speaker 4: see it. It just seems so like low class. Oh well,

315
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,800
Speaker 4: he was very cozy, was my takeaway. He looks very

316
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:33,720
Speaker 4: happy in every photo, grinning ear ear, ear right, I see.

317
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,400
Speaker 2: What other photos specifically that spoke out to you the most, Courtney,

318
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,160
Speaker 2: what come, what's the one of the many that have

319
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,680
Speaker 2: been released. By the way, we only have one percent

320
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,240
Speaker 2: of the files so far, one percent, and as of today,

321
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 2: the DOJ has said they're working feverishly. There's you know,

322
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,840
Speaker 2: only two million more to get through. Keep in mind,

323
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 2: and I quote what was said by the FBI and

324
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,520
Speaker 2: the DOJ was that, you know, while they this is

325
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,080
Speaker 2: a quote, by the way, while we have labored to

326
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,159
Speaker 2: provide the public with the maximum amount of information and

327
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 2: ensured examination of any evidence in the government's possession, it's

328
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,920
Speaker 2: the determination of the DOJ and the FBI that there

329
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,560
Speaker 2: is no further disclosure required, nor would it be appropriate.

330
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:21,640
Speaker 3: End quote.

331
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 2: Now, obviously this is like two months ago, but man,

332
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,639
Speaker 2: this is really heated up since then. So that was

333
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,720
Speaker 2: the stance. Now we find out none of those files

334
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 2: had actually been seen or processed or looked at. So

335
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,679
Speaker 2: here we are a slow roll. There doesn't seem to

336
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,200
Speaker 2: be an end date. In mind, they have not given

337
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,000
Speaker 2: a date when this release will happen, nor have they

338
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 2: mentioned when any of these redactions will be qualified or footnoted.

339
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 3: So here we are.

340
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 2: We're in this weird blank space and in the spirit

341
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,080
Speaker 2: of nothing is black and white, life is very gray.

342
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:56,720
Speaker 3: We're in the grain.

343
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,960
Speaker 4: But there have been some things worth noting, and let's

344
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,480
Speaker 4: note it. Okay, So you asked what stood out?

345
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,960
Speaker 5: And while we may be in the gray, I can

346
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 5: tell you that Jeffrey Ebstein and President Bill Clinton are

347
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,719
Speaker 5: in sort of matching They almost look like what is it?

348
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,359
Speaker 4: Lamme, Ay, it's a little satin pajamas.

349
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:24,440
Speaker 5: It's a shanton pajama, shiny metallic and they are just grinning.

350
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 4: They are looking off camera.

351
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 5: You don't know what they're looking at, but it looks

352
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,000
Speaker 5: tasty to me that and it looks like.

353
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,800
Speaker 2: They're in nighttime like the satin pajamas that we should

354
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 2: all be in right now.

355
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, they look like they're in matching pajamas. It's the

356
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:42,440
Speaker 5: most you know, bizarre thing. Really, it really stood out

357
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 5: to me.

358
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,119
Speaker 6: Just around is his arm around him in that photo?

359
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:50,680
Speaker 3: So there is a redacted part.

360
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,679
Speaker 2: No, they do look like they're a little chummy, but

361
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:54,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if there's an arm.

362
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 4: Is there an arm?

363
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:56,960
Speaker 3: Courtney.

364
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 5: They're very close together, and you know what, Taha, you

365
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,600
Speaker 5: might be right at perhaps from another angle. And actually,

366
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,639
Speaker 5: you know what, this may be the innocent answer to

367
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,640
Speaker 5: what they're looking at, because there may be a camera

368
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 5: at a different angle, in which case Bill Clinton's arm

369
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,920
Speaker 5: would be around Ebstein and they would be looking at

370
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 5: a camera.

371
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 4: But I was just struck again. It's evening time.

372
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,320
Speaker 5: It looks like it's really time to relax, let your

373
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,639
Speaker 5: hair down, and just throw on some matching pajamas.

374
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 6: Cute.

375
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:24,720
Speaker 4: What about the hot tub?

376
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 5: Oh, the hot tub that was That was another one,

377
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 5: and that these stood out to me, not just because

378
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,160
Speaker 5: I like to say, oh, Bill Clinton was all over

379
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 5: the island. We have heard that a million times. But

380
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:44,680
Speaker 5: the lever the level of comfortability in the hot hub one.

381
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,160
Speaker 5: You see the former president he literally has his hands

382
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 5: behind his head. He is leaning back in just the

383
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 5: picture of relax. Whether his legs are floating in the

384
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,680
Speaker 5: hot tub unclear, And there is someone very near him,

385
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:04,000
Speaker 5: as indicated by a blacked out or redacted face, and

386
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 5: they're real tight together.

387
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,160
Speaker 4: So somebody is like, it's not a big hot tub.

388
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, do we know.

389
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:15,159
Speaker 4: The blacked out the face? Is that a victim? We

390
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 4: don't know, because they haven't got no idea of the

391
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 4: reaction information, and I figured they would only redact victims,

392
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 4: like if you know, if they are only reacting victims,

393
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,119
Speaker 4: that's not true. That's crazy making because then there's so

394
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,400
Speaker 4: much information about victims because there's so many things redacted.

395
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 4: If that's the case, it's like a double edged sword.

396
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 4: Why else would they redact this person's face?

397
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 3: Maybe because because.

398
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 6: Isn't it worse if they If it's a victim, I

399
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 6: could understand why you would redact it. But if it's not,

400
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 6: I want to see who that person is.

401
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 4: Right, we know and and body.

402
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 5: I don't know if only in the pictures that is

403
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 5: what they're purporting to do is only victims, but it's not.

404
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 4: The reactions are not only victims names.

405
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 5: There is not one hundred consecutive ages type written that

406
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 5: are name after name.

407
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 4: That's one example of one thing. So it goes it's

408
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 4: Hillary in the hot tub? But why would they wrote

409
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 4: that down?

410
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,400
Speaker 6: Yeah? Why would you cover the right?

411
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 3: That's truly good point.

412
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 4: Well, I have one one last picture. I feel like

413
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:22,919
Speaker 4: I was allowed to. Sorry he said.

414
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 5: That, you know, maybe it's Hillary in the hot tub,

415
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 5: and perhaps, but there is a third picture and it

416
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 5: appears to be Bill Clinton on Epstein's plane, the Lolita

417
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 5: Express with a young woman sitting on his lap face redacted.

418
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 4: Uh, it is not Hillary, that is a for sure.

419
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 4: It is for sure non Hillary, that is for sure.

420
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 2: And again gleefol happy the little Lita that's the name

421
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 2: of the plane on the nose.

422
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 3: Do we have to be at the point? Also, habit

423
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 3: the one about the massage room.

424
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not surprising that he has a massage table,

425
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 2: but it's also with like young nudy photos everywhere. It's

426
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 2: just it's just like unsurprising, I suppose because look, we

427
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 2: know Bill Clinton. It appears now Trump. But by the way,

428
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 2: even Trump like posted a photo or DJ posted a

429
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 2: photo that had Trump in like a picture frame or

430
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 2: something or in the drawer in a photo and then

431
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 2: they took it down and then everybody went crazy and

432
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 2: then they put it back up. So like somebody's paying attention.

433
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 2: But why are we not just speeding up this process?

434
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 2: It seems like there's a posun all houses like you

435
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 2: almost and I am smiling, it's like a nervous smile

436
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 2: almost because it just must be so lame. Bill Clinton

437
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 2: has said he wants all of the files to be

438
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 2: released in their totality and that he has nothing to hide.

439
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 2: And you know, look, adult men doing adult men things.

440
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 2: Who knows, maybe I don't know.

441
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 4: It all looks real bad. It looks bad, it does,

442
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 4: it totally does. I had a pole the massage room,

443
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 4: you know, much like you Stephanie the massage room that

444
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 4: you know, we both kind of are like, oh this one,

445
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 4: you know, with all the naked women photos on the wall.

446
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 4: You know, it's just listen, this room was not built

447
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 4: for women or for subtlety, right, or for subtlety, right,

448
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 4: Like this would make me uncomfortable. Like if I walked in,

449
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 4: I go get a massage once a month. I have

450
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 4: like a serve I pay monthly, I go. If I

451
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 4: walked into this room, I'd be like, like, this is

452
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 4: not a kosher I'm not okay with this. And I

453
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 4: just thought it was very interesting. And you know, the

454
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 4: women are they're they're they're naked, and they're they're you know,

455
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 4: unmentionables are blocked out, but you can tell they're very

456
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 4: thin young women. You know, they're probably models. Maybe maybe

457
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,360
Speaker 4: they're I don't think these are photos he took necessarily

458
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 4: they look like professional like model shots. So I don't.

459
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't think that these are necessarily victims

460
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 4: per se. I don't know you. But the one I

461
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 4: found very.

462
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: Interesting into because you had such an interesting you. You

463
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 2: found a nugget that I had not seen, that the

464
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: rabbit hole.

465
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 3: Is real and the rabbit just want in.

466
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, the rabbit hole is very real. And I'm only

467
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 4: like just now, you know, digging into this rabbit hole.

468
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 4: But there's a photo and it looks like it's on

469
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 4: like a desk in Jeffrey's house on the island. Okay,

470
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 4: this is at that place, and it's a phrenology skull.

471
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 4: It's a it's like a bust, a white statue maybe,

472
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 4: and it's of a bust and a head and then

473
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 4: you can kind of see the brain and the brain

474
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 4: is like divided up into sections. And then on the

475
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 4: front of the photo it says phrenology. Do you guys

476
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 4: know what phrenology is?

477
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 6: No?

478
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: And I'm a little bit because I've now learned it

479
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: from you, So share with everybody, please.

480
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 4: So the reason I find this, the reason I find

481
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 4: this interesting is phrenology helped lay the groundwork for eugenics,

482
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 4: and we know that Jeffrey Epstein was interested in eugenics

483
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 4: on a level, you know, with the transhumanism movement that

484
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 4: would basically breed elites.

485
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 2: Right, can you can you explain both of those in

486
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 2: case anybody listening doesn't know what those words are, just

487
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: the dictionary definition of okay.

488
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 4: So for eugenics, well, let's start with phrenology. So phrenology,

489
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 4: it's been first of all, this is long debunked. This

490
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 4: is old quote unquote science that has been one million

491
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 4: percent debunked. It's a long you know, it's a pseudoscience

492
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 4: from the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, and it claimed

493
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 4: that you could determine a person's character, intelligence, and moral

494
00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 4: traits by examining the shape and bumps of their skull. Okay,

495
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 4: And phrenology and eugenics share like a really core assumption,

496
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 4: and that is that human worth and intelligence and morality

497
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 4: are biologically fixed and measurable and only certain people can

498
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 4: have it. Okay, So it's a very bad thing. So eugenics.

499
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 4: So you guys understand what phrenology is. It's a study

500
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 4: of some skull. Okay, So eugenics is also discredited. It's

501
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 4: a pseudoscience ideology that advocated for the improvement of the

502
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 4: human species through selective breeding. Okay. It aimed to encourage

503
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,479
Speaker 4: people with supposedly desirable hereditary traits to and I use

504
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 4: air quotes when I said that, Yeah, to reproduce while

505
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 4: preventing deemed unfit or inferior. I'm using air quotes from

506
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 4: having children. Okay.

507
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 7: Yeah.

508
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: So, by the way, if you were blind, or if

509
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 2: you had some sort of physical and again air quoting

510
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: imperfection or you know, defect, again air quotes. In the

511
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 2: biggest way possible. This whole thing is air quotes. What

512
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: we think would be like unique and awesome. Now you

513
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 2: would be kind of, you know, bred out of the

514
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: human race.

515
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 5: I think the simplest thing we can all think about

516
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 5: is it off Hitler. I mean, eugenics was what he

517
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 5: undertood upon and that's an easy way to you know,

518
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 5: it's to purify and have only the Germans.

519
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: Right.

520
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 4: So transhumanism it's a cycle. It's it's physiolosophy. Okay, so

521
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 4: let me start over. Transhumanism it's a technological movement that

522
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 4: argues humans should use science and technology to enhance the

523
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 4: human body and mind and potentially move beyond what we

524
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 4: currently mean by human okay. And Epstein was interested in

525
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 4: all of those things, very interested in all that. And

526
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 4: we had heard, I mean long, we've long known that

527
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 4: he was interested in these things. But to see it

528
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 4: on the desk m M, it kind of gave me

529
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 4: the chills a little bit.

530
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 6: You know.

531
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 4: This was just a really interesting discovery, I.

532
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: Think, which then put us down a rabbit hole about

533
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: transhumanism and Epstein's involvement. And yeah, he was like donating

534
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 2: so much money to certain universities, certain scientists. You know,

535
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: his funding was being used in a very meaningful way,

536
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: specifically into transhumanism, you know, which is how to like

537
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: make your life longer, how to you know, kind of

538
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: opt out of death essentially, but more importantly, how to

539
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: like get rid of on any of the unpurified humans.

540
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 6: Right. So, yeah, right, and he was go ahead, Oh no,

541
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 6: I was just going to say a specific amount, like

542
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 6: in between nineteen ninety eight and two thousand and eight,

543
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 6: he donated nine point eighteen million million dollars to Harvard

544
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 6: to support the research for there's a program that they

545
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,479
Speaker 6: have called evolutionary dynamics, and it's all involved with that.

546
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 6: But he donated that and his biggest gift was about

547
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 6: six point five million in two thousand and three, so

548
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 6: he's nine.

549
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 3: Million dollars six million dollars.

550
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 4: That's a lot. And you know, you know, he he

551
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 4: really was. He was really into this and he was

552
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 4: basically trying to do this in his at his New

553
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 4: Mexico ranch. And he was obsessed with genetic exceptionalism. He

554
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 4: thought intelligence was a biological hierarchy. Wasn't something like you're

555
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 4: when you're born, it's already predetermined who you're going to be.

556
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 4: You know, excised with this philosophy, with this philosophy, and

557
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 4: you know, if you have the right genes, you can

558
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 4: you're going to excel. It's almost a guarantee, right, And

559
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 4: the idea that the small elite a guide or engineer.

560
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 4: He was perfectly fine with engineering the future of humanity.

561
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 4: And he had plans to impregnant, impregnate at least twenty women,

562
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 4: at least twenty Okay, that's that's the minimum with his genes,

563
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 4: so that he could help build the future of humanity

564
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 4: with his perfect genes.

565
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: And we have to come back to this in this

566
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: after this break, please.

567
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 3: We have to come back to this.

568
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: This is interesting in just so a little while because

569
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: you did such a great job laying that out.

570
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 4: My brain it's hard to explode. It's hard to understand. Yeah,

571
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 4: it's hard to understand. So it's like, oh, we're begin

572
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:36,959
Speaker 4: with it.

573
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: We're going to come right back with it. I think,

574
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: right are were going to break? Oh we have to

575
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: say what time?

576
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 4: Yeah?

577
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 5: No, A, well just a couple of seconds, but yeah,

578
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 5: we will continue this. And Body, you laid it out

579
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 5: really well. That was a nice bit of squil for

580
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 5: me personally.

581
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: We're talking about transhumanism, which is you know, it's not

582
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: even allegedly this is you know, factually been written in

583
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: so many things throughout the years. I just hadn't really

584
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,959
Speaker 2: dipped into this pool yet about transhumanism and its influence

585
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 2: on Epstein.

586
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 4: And it does.

587
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 2: Track because a lot of these big thinkers on this

588
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 2: said island were having big thoughts and apparently transhumanism, which

589
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: Body will give us the dissertation on, was a big

590
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: piece of what he was really excited about. And it's

591
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: sort of like radical life extension and also selective breeding

592
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: for lack of a better term.

593
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's you know, augmenting the body with technology

594
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 4: to make a new not a new human, but a

595
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 4: better human right, So it's not necessarily making like a

596
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 4: new species or anything like that, but it's it's breeding elites, right.

597
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,719
Speaker 4: And Jeffrey Ebstein had a big interest in it. You know,

598
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 4: it's long been documented, as you said that his interest

599
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 4: in transhumanism, the idea of improving humans through technology like

600
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 4: genetic engineering and AI, which a lot of people critique

601
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 4: as like a modern day eugenics. Right. So it's very controversial.

602
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 4: And before I get started, I just want to make

603
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 4: sure because it gives me the iggys to talk about this.

604
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 4: I don't I don't take any pleasure in it, and

605
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 4: I just want everybody to know I don't. I don't

606
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 4: subscribe to any of the nonsense here here, where do

607
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 4: I just because it's coming out of my mouth. I

608
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 4: don't want to get any hate mail. I know.

609
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 5: It's just you're explaining concepts that I'm honestly swirling around

610
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 5: in our world, whether we know about them or not.

611
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 2: Very well documented. But hey, it's like not really getting

612
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: that much play, but it's extremely well documented, and I've

613
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 2: seen a video of him and Steve Bannen even speaking

614
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,719
Speaker 2: about it. So this is not like a we're not

615
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: on a lark and this is not some conspiracy.

616
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 4: Theory now, yeah, right, So there's this one's interesting. So

617
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 4: I think I told you guys that it was reported

618
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 4: in the previous segment. It was reported that Jeffrey Epstein

619
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 4: planned to impregnate up to twenty women simultaneously, like he

620
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 4: wanted to do them all at once at his.

621
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 3: Excur Totally it seems like an amazing father.

622
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 4: Totally normal. Well, no, he wasn't going to be a father.

623
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 4: He just wants to plant his seed. Yeah, you know,

624
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 4: of course, it's very bizarre. So, uh, there was a

625
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 4: person that is associated with Jeffrey Epstein, and he he

626
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 4: came away with the impression that Jeffrey Epstein used his

627
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 4: dinner parties, often attended by a lot of attractive women

628
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 4: with strong academic or scientific credentials, as a way to

629
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 4: evaluate potential candidates to bear his children. So he would

630
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 4: have these elaborate parties and invite people he thought or

631
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 4: women he thought would be worthy of the you know,

632
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 4: this transhumanism experiment, or you know, like.

633
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 6: Scouting, like picking some of the people that might be

634
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 6: future candidates for.

635
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 5: I mean, doesn't this feel like the precursor to Elon

636
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 5: Musk except for instead of dinner parties. Now you're sliding

637
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 5: into DMS and choosing that's a good that's about point. No,

638
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 5: you're right, because how many children does he have? Like thirteen?

639
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 4: There's a question mark on it?

640
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 6: Less?

641
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 4: Oh is there last I check?

642
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: Can I just see that he was going to have

643
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: more neurallinks the brain implants. This is elon musk in

644
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. They're amping up production on those. So

645
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: I don't want to digress, but yes I can. I'll

646
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 2: find the article right now. But that's a side note.

647
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: But yes, so your territory.

648
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 4: So Jeffrey used his wealth and his social connections at

649
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 4: which were you know, that's where Gline comes in, right,

650
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 4: because she had all these powerful connections because she came

651
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 4: from an elite family in England. Right. So Jeffrey Epstein

652
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 4: used his wealth and social connections to bring these elites in,

653
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 4: and he would choose people from science, tech, and finance

654
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 4: into his circle, many of whom continued to associate with

655
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein even after his two thousand and eight pedophil conviction. Right,

656
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 4: and of course to how you you reminded us in

657
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,919
Speaker 4: the segment prior that between nineteen ninety eight and two

658
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 4: thousand and eight, Jeffrey Ebstein donated millions of dollars to

659
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 4: Harvard to support faculty in research. His biggest gift was

660
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 4: six point five million dollars in two thousand and three,

661
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 4: and it helped create Harvard's Program for Evolutionary Dynamics, which

662
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 4: is you know, I mean listen, if you if you

663
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 4: just read that title, you can kind of figure out

664
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 4: what that is, right, what does that mean? Evolutionary dynamics?

665
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 4: What is that?

666
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: And by the way, the spirit of that was that

667
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: he was going to pregnant pregnate twenty girls at a

668
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 2: minimum at his new Mexico location. And I think we've

669
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: told this story before, so you know, forgive me if

670
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 2: it's repetitive, but we made that documentary Murdered and Missing

671
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 2: in Montana, Court united that together many many years ago.

672
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: By the way, this is kind of pre Epstein court.

673
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 3: Am I right?

674
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: Did you really were you prevalent in the Epstein land

675
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 2: at that point? No, it was not until we got

676
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 2: it in our heads that you know, the whole documentary

677
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: is based on Native American reservations, and it just so

678
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: it's like the craziest number of girls that are pulled

679
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: from those reservations and sex trafficked, and it was really

680
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 2: heart wrenching.

681
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 3: It's a terrible state of the union.

682
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: And you know, one of the cases that we were

683
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: following was a girl who had we knew she had

684
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: gotten the bus ticket to New Mexico and that sort

685
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 2: of opened her eyes to all things New Mexico, which,

686
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: lo and behold was all things New Mexico Epstein. And

687
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: we felt that we were so close to making the

688
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 2: connection to this trafficking happening and sort of this this

689
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: grouping of girls being pulled from reservations, you know, there's

690
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: no way for them to get home again, and they're

691
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 2: being essentially shipped to New Mexico. And we felt very

692
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: strongly I can say this now right that it was

693
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: somehow connected to Epstein's big, huge residence there.

694
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 3: This was pre the island even.

695
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 4: Being a thing.

696
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and we kind of like it got a

697
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: little shut down, honestly. And this makes a lot of sense,

698
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 2: is my point, because I do think his early days

699
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: in New Mexico and that particular location, and that particular

700
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,919
Speaker 2: was like this huge estate and this was his pre

701
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: island location. By the way, they still existed and they

702
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 2: lived simultaneously. They still exist now or you know, it

703
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: was a big thing, but it didn't get any play.

704
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 4: No wow. So this PAD program, which is the program

705
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 4: for evolutionary dynamics at Harvard, I just looked up what

706
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 4: it was, because I don't know what that is, right,

707
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 4: and I don't want to like cast a bad spell

708
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 4: on like a good program. So evolutionary dynamics is the

709
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 4: mathematical and computational study of how populations, traits, or strategies

710
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 4: change over time, driven by core forces like genes, mutation, selection,

711
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 4: and drift. And I listen, I don't know what any

712
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 4: of that is except for genes, right, And so it

713
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 4: might apparently Harvard has like this, this program that studies this. Okay, Well,

714
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein apparently had a special interest in this because

715
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 4: he donated all that money to Harvard for this specific program,

716
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 4: and even after his two thousand and eight conviction, he

717
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 4: visited that program more than forty times between twenty ten

718
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 4: and twenty eighteen. Although he was no longer a recognized

719
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 4: donor because he was a convicted pedophile. Harvard can't have

720
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 4: this on their list of recognized donors, but he visited

721
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 4: it over forty times.

722
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 5: That honestly is even way more interesting to me than

723
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 5: the you know, over nine million dollars. I mean, if

724
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 5: you're doing that, it's every other month. I mean, unless

725
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 5: you're audering a class, why you're going to any university?

726
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, that often forty times.

727
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: And even remember that's Alan Dershowitz was also a professor

728
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: there that we talked about last night. And also these donations,

729
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,959
Speaker 2: and if anything, maybe those donations continued but just under

730
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 2: a different name. That's why we need these bank bank transactions.

731
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 2: Who are these withdrawals going to? Who are these cash

732
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 2: withdrawals going to? You know, yes, after he was a

733
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 2: convicted felon, maybe they couldn't take these same you know,

734
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: donations in his name.

735
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,919
Speaker 3: But who's to say that it wasn't going some other way?

736
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 4: Right?

737
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 3: And for what reason? It's so creepy.

738
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: All I can think about is that weird dentist chair

739
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 2: in another picture. You guys will all remember, because we

740
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 2: discussed it before the break, there was a weird room.

741
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a weird room, but it's basically like a

742
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 2: dentist chair. But around it on a wall were like

743
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 2: these masks, like as if you're putting on a mask

744
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 2: and doing dentistry.

745
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 3: That could be one of three things.

746
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 2: Right, Maybe he had a dentist that showed up there

747
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: and like Dave, you know, worked on his He was.

748
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 4: Largely in the ears. He was rich enough, right.

749
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: Flying in a dentist and he put a mask on

750
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,479
Speaker 2: the dentist and that was the end of that. Or

751
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: maybe they were, you know, getting facials and fillers and

752
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 2: you know, this was something that he put his girls through,

753
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: perhaps in the facialist war the weird masks.

754
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 3: Who knows or is it possible?

755
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 2: And again this is allegedly, allegedly allegedly I'm off the

756
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: fact reservation here, but is it possible that that was

757
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 2: human experiments?

758
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 4: Like how do you even test this stuff?

759
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 2: And if you're on an island in the Caribbean, it's

760
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 2: a little different. It's not that it's lawless, of course

761
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: it is, but the regulations that would normally be followed

762
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: in the United States are different.

763
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,919
Speaker 4: Right, Yes, very scary. Do you think they wore the mask?

764
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 4: I think the mask wives art, right. I feel like

765
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 4: I've always seen him in a mask in my head,

766
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 4: But I.

767
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: Like I watched eyes wide shut over the break and

768
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,479
Speaker 2: it like, oh did you, let's talk about a rabbit hole.

769
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 4: So I won't ever get out of that rabbit hole.

770
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 2: But yes, so in my head they're all like wearing

771
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 2: these weird masks. But yes, it brings me more comfort

772
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 2: that they were just artwork. Adamson he watched it too,

773
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 2: and Adam and I share the same brain, like, listen.

774
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 4: That it's kind of a Christmas movie. They got Christmas Trees.

775
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 3: Die Hard exactly I watched I did watch.

776
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 5: Well, Listen, this is true crime tonight, and we are

777
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 5: digging deep into Epstein and not just the files, of

778
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 5: which there are five point two million yet to come,

779
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 5: and not just the photos which we've spoken about, including

780
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 5: President Bill Clinton and Jeffrey Epstein and LeMay matching pajamas,

781
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 5: but we were talking about you and these other really

782
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 5: smart things that body is teaching us about. If you

783
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 5: have any comments, we'd love to hear them. Give us

784
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 5: a call eighty day three to one crime, or hit

785
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 5: us on the talkbacks.

786
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 4: Now listen. If I'm a teacher, We're in trouble.

787
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 6: Okay, I a teacher.

788
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 4: I would love to talk to somebody about this, like

789
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 4: if you really know, like, is there a scientist or

790
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 4: somebody knows more about you. Ja, Yeah, because I'm just

791
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 4: like learning about all this today or over the last

792
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 4: couple of days.

793
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, maybe a good guest. We can look into somebody,

794
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 6: because I want to learn more about this very interesting

795
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 6: over the PED program, which I think is no longer.

796
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 4: Right, So get this, you guys. The PED program which

797
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 4: did all those studies on the biological popular how the

798
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 4: biological populations change through genes, and you know whatnot. It

799
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 4: was officially closed in twenty twenty one because of its

800
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 4: links to Jeffrey Ebstein, Like, can you imagine it? Can

801
00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 4: you imagine your reputation is so in the garbage that

802
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 4: Harvard University has to cancel a whole old ram because

803
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 4: you donated to it and spent forty times there in

804
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 4: eight years. I don't know. I thought that was interesting.

805
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: Also, one thing we know for sure just about his

806
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 2: financial background too. This is a guy that ether Or

807
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: was the luckiest, swarmiest guy that from day one just

808
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 2: landed a job at bear Stearn's on Wall Street, where

809
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: he was underqualified, went under the right person's wing. He

810
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 2: was like, you know, A couple of people raised a

811
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 2: few flags and were like, well, that doesn't seem right

812
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 2: like he's my all kinds of luxury gifts and spending

813
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 2: all kinds of and doing all kinds of and then

814
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 2: he got kind of a free pass, and then again

815
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 2: goes to a new place and gets another free pass.

816
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 4: Either.

817
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 2: He's just been so lucky to always get the free pass, which,

818
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 2: by the way, I'm the complete opposite. I'll always get caught.

819
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 2: I'll always get I learned every mistake the hardest way possible.

820
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: So imagine being that lucky that you always can manipulate

821
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 2: somebody like a con artist, just in the perfect way

822
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: that they like, let it slip and then you rise again,

823
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,399
Speaker 2: and then they let it slip and then you rise again.

824
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: He apparently did this for decades or he was blackmailing people.

825
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 4: I think it's the compromise is a big thing for me.

826
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 4: I think that's going to be something that we're going

827
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 4: to get into. But I also want to let you

828
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 4: guys know too. He also had some big interest in cryogenics,

829
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 4: and that is when cryogenics. Yeah, so it goes along

830
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 4: with it where you basically get frozen. Did you guys

831
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 4: see Vanilla Skuy another.

832
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 2: Tone of the movie Vanilla's guy. But I love them,

833
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 2: but I can fully understand it if I'm honest.

834
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 4: Like, well, he gets to this Alan and yeah that I.

835
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: Remember he got into an accident with Cameron Diaz and

836
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 2: then he has a mess up face yep.

837
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 4: And then he goes into cryogenics, so he gets suspended

838
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 4: and he chooses this lucid dream option so that you know,

839
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 4: while he's being frozen, he's dreaming. And this is when

840
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 4: he's dreaming, is when he needs a PANELPI Cruise and

841
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 4: all that. Anyway, Oh right, it's a great movie, but

842
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 4: it's another Tom Cruise movie, just like Ice Wide Show. Anyway,

843
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 4: there's my connection. But the crud, No, we're not on

844
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 4: this something. It's just a coincidence. Still, what are the odds?

845
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 4: What are the odds Tom made connections that were made

846
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 4: to Ice Wide Shot now leads to Vanilla Sae. Okay,

847
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 4: sorry to interject that.

848
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 5: In Magnolia, Tom Cruise plays a like uh the self help.

849
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 2: Like an Andrew Tate type like uh, I don't know

850
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 2: the word type.

851
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're gonna have to explore that. That's another that's

852
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 4: a that's a rabbit hole for tomorrow.

853
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 5: But like, yeah, good night though MINATII.

854
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 4: The word it's a buzzword. I can't get out of

855
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 4: that rabbit hole. So yeah, he donated a lot of

856
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 4: money to cryogenics and the idea that you could be frozen.

857
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 4: And he donated money to the trans the World Transhumanist Association,

858
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 4: including a twenty thousand dollars gift which doesn't seem like

859
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 4: a lot, and one hundred thousand dollars salary donation. So

860
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 4: he really wanted people working on us.

861
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 3: Wow, I need an expert.

862
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 4: Taha, we does, We're working. Yeah, Okay, well listen, keep

863
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 4: it here.

864
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 5: We have a trial beginning for the officer who failed

865
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 5: to act in the Uvaldi shooting, and we are going

866
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 5: to be unpacking a Mommy influencer crime.

867
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,720
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

868
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney

869
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 2: and Body and listen, we've had our brains a little

870
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 2: bit frozen here talking a lot about heavy things, so

871
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 2: we're going to switch gears and talk about something even heavier.

872
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 4: Body.

873
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 3: There's this new development.

874
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 2: Obviously, the trial today began of the officer who was

875
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 2: the first responder to the Uvaldi shooting is now standing

876
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 2: trial as of today, so phill us in on the

877
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: new developments there.

878
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 6: Right.

879
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 4: So, the trial of the former Uvaldi School resource officer,

880
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 4: Adrian Gonzalez had began today in Corpus Christi, Texas, with

881
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 4: the prosecutors alleging that his failure to act after the

882
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 4: shooter opened fire at a school led to the deaths

883
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 4: of ninth Remember this, nineteen children and two teachers. You know,

884
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 4: this was like three years ago now, I think, Yeah,

885
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 4: it was May twenty fourth, Yeah, twenty twenty two. Eighteen

886
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 4: year old Salvador Ramos opened fire at rob Elementary School

887
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 4: in Uvalde, Texas, with law enforcement taking seventy seven minutes

888
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 4: to stop him. I mean, we've all seen this footage

889
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 4: of the standing in that hallway, right. The prosecution of

890
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 4: Adrian Gonzalez marks one of the rare US cases where

891
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 4: prosecuting officers for in action during the school shooting. I mean,

892
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 4: I don't recall ever seen this before. It's very interesting. So, yeah,

893
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 4: I feel a little.

894
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: Just sad about it in a weird way, I know.

895
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 2: I Listen, I feel real sad about the Uvaldi shooting.

896
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it decimated so many families, and I

897
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,479
Speaker 2: think we can all remember where we were sitting when

898
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 2: that happened. So again hearts with the families. Seems strange

899
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 2: though for one person who was inactive, which, by the way.

900
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 4: Well let me tell you what happened on that day. Yes,

901
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 4: and you might not feel so bad, okay, okay, okay.

902
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 4: So now, just so you guys know, he's facing twenty

903
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 4: nine counts of child endangerment and abandonment and he could

904
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 4: be sentenced to a maximum of two years in prison. Okay.

905
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 4: So this is not the rest of his life, This

906
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 4: is not okay. So that's number one. Like Chuck Mark,

907
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 4: you don't feel bad for him, Okay, I feel so

908
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 4: Just so, this is what happened that day. So, just

909
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 4: before beginning his shooting spree, the eighteen year old shooter

910
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 4: Sala Door Ramos, I really don't even want to say

911
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 4: his name, a truck near the school and he started

912
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 4: firing it by standards, right, And the owner of the

913
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 4: funeral home across the street, his name was Gilbert Lemnis,

914
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 4: he witnessed this and he calls nine one one and

915
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 4: he says, oh my gosh, there's kids out here. There's

916
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 4: kids out here, please hurry, right. So Adrian Gonzalez, the

917
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 4: defendant right now. He's the first officer to arrive on scene.

918
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 4: He drives towards the school and he's responding to the

919
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 4: reports of an armed man near this truck that crashed.

920
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 6: Right.

921
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 4: So there's a teacher, Melody Flores, and she instructs Adrian Gonzalez,

922
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 4: the defendant, where the shooter is. And Adrian Gonzalez allegedly

923
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,879
Speaker 4: does not immediately engage as a shooter. He reports over

924
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 4: the police radio that he believes the shooter has entered

925
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 4: the building, and the prosecutors emphasized he remains at the

926
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 4: south side of the school despite the knowledge of where

927
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 4: the shooter is. Okay, so he just standing at the

928
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 4: south end of the school. So Salvador Ramos the shooter.

929
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 4: He starts moving from classroom to classroom, shooting window by window,

930
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 4: and he's killing children and teachers inside the nine one

931
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 4: caller Gilbert Lamoniz here's that gunfire and reports it. He's like,

932
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 4: I've been calling right. So now they're saying that Adrian

933
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 4: Gonsalves this a lled to the defendant here had multiple

934
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 4: chances to distract or stop the shooter. The defense is

935
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 4: claiming that Adrian Gonsalez was gathering critical information, evacuating students,

936
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 4: and responding as best he could given chaotic circumstances. The

937
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 4: defense emphasized, the government wants to make it seem like

938
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 4: he just sat there. He did what he could with

939
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 4: what he knew at the time. So coordination among law

940
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 4: enforcement was really heavily delayed. We all see them standing

941
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 4: in that hallway for an hour, and then the shooting stops.

942
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 4: It's just like the most.

943
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 6: Awful thing, right, hundreds of officers there. I feel like

944
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 6: he was just the first one.

945
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 4: I kind of feel listen, I kind of feel like

946
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 4: you're right to right. I agree, he's there by himself, right,

947
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 4: he got scared. He's a school officer. It's not like he's,

948
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 4: you know, fighting bad guys on the street every day. Right,

949
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 4: He's the school officer.

950
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 2: Screen not something he's used to that I'm discounting a

951
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 2: school officer. It's very real and there's training involved. But

952
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,720
Speaker 2: of course, you know, who finds themselves in a situation where,

953
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm about to die myself right now,

954
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: maybe he got I'm not making excuses because that's not

955
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 2: satisfying for anyone who lost their family, you know, of.

956
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 4: Course, but really, this is the guy Miking is the chief.

957
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 5: Oh go ahead, Courtney, please what I was going to say,

958
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 5: And this is so I know you prefaced it with

959
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 5: we've all seen this footage and it's it's the most infuriating.

960
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 5: It is an upsetting thing. I think I've ever seen

961
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 5: him in my life. Same these men standing there in

962
00:51:53,760 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 5: bomb gear and with you know, military tactical equipment and

963
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 5: doing nothing.

964
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 4: So here's my thing.

965
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 5: I agree with the scapegoating of this school officer. I

966
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 5: feel like, and this is my imagination, you know, the

967
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 5: Attorney General's office or somebody said, you know, somebody needs

968
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 5: to be held accountable for this, and perhaps didn't want

969
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,959
Speaker 5: to throw the entire police department under earth.

970
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 4: That sort of thinks. Also, it doesn't bring somebody back.

971
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 2: And I have to assume, and I don't know him obviously,

972
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 2: but I have to assume he feels pretty horrible to

973
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: I'm sure what is inactivity did I can't imagine. It's

974
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 2: even hard for me to discuss it. But I don't

975
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 2: know that like putting this guy away, A cop in

976
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 2: prison never find and even if it's for two years,

977
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 2: it's long two years. And it seems like there were

978
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 2: a lot of systematic issues. You know, we saw like

979
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: four hundred officers there to your point in combat gear.

980
00:52:59,239 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 4: I don't know.

981
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 2: Sometimes do train for something and then maybe in the

982
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 2: moment it just freezes you freezing, it goes a little sideways.

983
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 4: I don't know, you know what. I know, that's not

984
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:11,800
Speaker 4: that's not the job.

985
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 5: That's not the job of officers, including and there's going

986
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 5: to be if things continue as they're going.

987
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 4: The police chief he are in, don do believe?

988
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, so he also is indicted, and you know he

989
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 5: was also in a position of authority. And I don't know.

990
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 5: I have a hard time, Stephanie. I hear you, and

991
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,720
Speaker 5: human error is human and.

992
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 3: Can they be fine?

993
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 5: I don't know.

994
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: I hear you though obviously like if I if this

995
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:46,479
Speaker 2: was my child, God forbid, you know, of course I'd

996
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 2: be like, you know, all the things, So it must

997
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 2: in my head, yeah, in my head. I just I

998
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 2: don't know where to bleed a little bit. But of

999
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 2: course I hear what you're saying. Of course there's training involved,

1000
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 2: and this is the job, and you blew it, and

1001
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: you you really blew it, and you know what, in

1002
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 2: the bed at a moment that cost so many lives

1003
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 2: you know, And I guess there's a part of me

1004
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 2: that's like, oh, this this man has to live with

1005
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 2: himself also and definitely shouldn't have a job anymore. Let's

1006
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 2: start there, and maybe there's no pension involved.

1007
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 4: But I don't know.

1008
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 3: But again, I know that I'm.

1009
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 2: Probably wrong too, So I'm just tossling with it real time.

1010
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,240
Speaker 6: I see both sides of it, Like I mean.

1011
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 2: This is not an opinion. I'm just sort of speaking

1012
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 2: up here.

1013
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 4: You're working it out.

1014
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 3: I'm working it out real time.

1015
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're working it out real time, right, And I

1016
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 4: think we're all with you on that. I don't feel

1017
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 4: strongly one way or the other. I'm kind of like

1018
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 4: working it out as well, like this really, but I

1019
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 4: will say I do feel like the police chief Pete

1020
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 4: run Dondo, who Courtney said is also indicted. His trial

1021
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 4: has been postponed, but I'm assuming it's still going to

1022
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 4: happen because I do recall his name being thrown around

1023
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,359
Speaker 4: a lot, is making some of those decisions that held

1024
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 4: those officers back. Now, should this Adrian Consalez person, this resource,

1025
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 4: this school officer be punished because of decisions that Chief

1026
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 4: Pete Aaronando made. I don't know.

1027
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 2: It reminds me like this is probably a terrible I

1028
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 2: shouldn't even say this, but like remember the movie A

1029
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 2: Few Good Men and the men that were on trial.

1030
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:27,399
Speaker 3: You can't handle the truth.

1031
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 2: Jack Nicholson was giving the order and they were following

1032
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 2: the order, Like does that apply here?

1033
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 3: Was this like school? I don't know a school.

1034
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 2: It's like a right really to know what to do

1035
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 2: for real in an active shooter situation. To that extent,

1036
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: I want to say yes, but I don't know humans,

1037
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 2: so I don't want to die on this hand.

1038
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 3: And you know what, Stephanie.

1039
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 4: The thing is, though, is that you're not alone because

1040
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 4: legal precedent shows prosecuting this widespread in action is incredibly difficult.

1041
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 4: So these two you are likely being prosecuted because they

1042
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 4: had direct knowledge and command of command authority, Like this

1043
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 4: isn't this isn't you know a weird concept that you're

1044
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 4: feeling this way because I think legally there is an issue.

1045
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 4: Challenges for the prosecution include providing, you know, criminal or

1046
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 4: proving criminal negligence from in action, and overcoming the chaotic

1047
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 4: scene defense. Like just like we were saying, like there's

1048
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 4: this chaotic scene, he probably froze. Well, that's going to

1049
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 4: be the challenge for the prosecution, is you know, overcoming

1050
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 4: it's because that's a.

1051
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 2: I'm so young and like, yeah, hearing those gunshots in

1052
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 2: that video, like this could have been prevented.

1053
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 4: Wasn't the door unlocked or something? There was like a

1054
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 4: there was like a rock.

1055
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 9: Door.

1056
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: So now do we hold that person and put them

1057
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:48,760
Speaker 2: in prison? Whoever put the door open?

1058
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 6: I don't know.

1059
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 4: This is a you know, someone just working it out

1060
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 4: of my head.

1061
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 6: No, yeah, and I agree with you. I'm still working

1062
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 6: out as well. But there's something about the police chief,

1063
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 6: who is the person that's in charge of it. I

1064
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 6: think more of it, the more the blame is on him,

1065
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 6: less than this one Adrian person.

1066
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 2: How productive is this? Like can we be more productive?

1067
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 2: Like clearly the actual scene of the crime of an

1068
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 2: active shooter is very different than whatever they had rehearsed prior.

1069
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 3: So is the takeaway.

1070
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 2: Just as a general note for you know, anyone who's patrolling.

1071
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 4: The schools that our kids go to, it's a tough gig.

1072
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 2: I get those alerts and your part just stops and

1073
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 2: you hope that it's just a false alarm. Right, So

1074
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 2: you know, again, and this is not the you know,

1075
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 2: they're not Navy seals, they're you know, looking for kids,

1076
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 2: you know, smoking cigarettes outside.

1077
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 3: So how do you keep that.

1078
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 2: Sort of training going to in a more efficient way

1079
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 2: that they are prepared.

1080
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 5: Well, that's why because I'm I'm in general, I'm not

1081
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 5: for punishment for punishment's sake right at all, and just

1082
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 5: to make of course you're not your collective feel better,

1083
00:57:59,040 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 5: you know.

1084
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 3: However, in this instance, and I do think that.

1085
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 5: The school officer is is an.

1086
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 2: Overreach, but that the police chief I really do believe.

1087
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 2: I'm always all started today.

1088
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 5: But I do think potentially that bringing this case to

1089
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 5: light with a court case that there is repercussions would

1090
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 5: make people train a little bit differently.

1091
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 4: Potentially. That's well, I think, And I think that's the

1092
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 4: point here, because this is only the second prosecution in

1093
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 4: the US of an officer for an action during a

1094
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 4: school shooting. If you remember, the resource officer from Parkland

1095
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 4: was also tried. His name was Scott Peterson and that

1096
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 4: happened in twenty eighteen. He was acquitted. So this convict,

1097
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 4: if he gets convicted, I'm sorry, I've got a frog.

1098
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 4: If he's convicted, it could set precedent for law enforcement

1099
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 4: accountability during active shooters and it could change the way

1100
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 4: they get trained in how they act. Right, Yeah, so

1101
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 4: you're I think you're on the right path for Corney,

1102
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 4: And like.

1103
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 2: How do we just be productive like tossing somebody, tossing

1104
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 2: the school officer who like honestly had a Really this

1105
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 2: is nothing good about it, and this this person has

1106
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 2: to live with it, right, Like you have to live

1107
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 2: with the fact that how many.

1108
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 4: Lives were lost that day to nineteen or eighteen kids

1109
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 4: into nineteen kids and two teachers.

1110
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 2: I mean, just think about that, and it never gets

1111
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 2: easier for those you know, nineteen children and two teachers,

1112
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 2: parents and siblings and all of the things.

1113
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 3: Lives forever change.

1114
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 2: They were lassmates soccerny, they're witnessing all of this. It's

1115
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 2: a it's as traumatic as it gets period. So we

1116
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 2: see that, and how can we be more productive than

1117
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 2: throwing somebody in jail for two years?

1118
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 4: That's not the guy. I don't know. I don't know

1119
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 4: that we're going to find out. So jury selection began

1120
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 4: today and obviously they went through a lot of people.

1121
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 4: One hundred people were dismissed because of perceived bias. I mean,

1122
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 4: this is a very contentious topic and people feel a

1123
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 4: certain way about it. He should have his job, but

1124
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 4: they should Well I don't think he does.

1125
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 3: He does, that's for sure.

1126
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 4: So jury selection began today and they picked the jury already,

1127
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 4: opening statements already began. Yeah, opening statements already beg Yeah.

1128
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 4: So I'm so sorry. So the defense attorneys insisted on

1129
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 4: in their opening statement that he did what he could

1130
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 4: when he arrived at a confusing and chaotic scene. They

1131
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 4: described an officer who tried to assess where the gunman

1132
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 4: was while thinking he was being fired on without protection

1133
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 4: against high powered rifle. Remember, he's a school officer. He's

1134
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 4: not like wearing a vest.

1135
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 3: He was wearing any year.

1136
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 4: Right. He's a parent also, right, So it's going to

1137
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 4: be interesting. This is this is going to be a

1138
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 4: very thin I think he should have jumped into action.

1139
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 4: But of course the jury got to hear the frantic

1140
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 4: nine one one calls. Horrible, It's I mean, this is

1141
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 4: moving very quickly. This has been frantic nine one one

1142
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 4: calls I've listened to and another hidios.

1143
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 9: Right.

1144
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 6: I don't know why this stood out to me that

1145
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 6: bothered me that the defense opposed to showing autopsy photos

1146
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 6: of the nineteen children killing the nineteen children that were killed,

1147
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 6: arguing it would unfairly prejudice the prejudice the juries are

1148
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 6: coming on my words there right. I can't imagine the

1149
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 6: idea of even showing those photos that.

1150
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 4: Can you imagine being on this jury and being presented

1151
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 4: with photos of dead children? I would lose cover.

1152
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 2: I don't know that that's appropriate, you know, I think

1153
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 2: we could envision. I think we Yeah, if you're on

1154
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 2: a juror, you understand nineteen lives plus.

1155
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 4: So that was the first witness. It was this funeral

1156
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 4: homeowner who made the nine one one call. And the

1157
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:49,120
Speaker 4: second witness was Lieutenant Jason Shay. He's from the Texas

1158
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 4: Rangers and he had not previously worked on a mass

1159
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 4: shooting crime scene. This was like his first experience, you know. Ever,

1160
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 4: he was the first ranger at the crime scene and

1161
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 4: he was tasked with photographing that vehicle. So he was

1162
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 4: the second winness. We'll continue to cover this though, so

1163
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 4: stand by for that.

1164
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll follow this very closely, and listen, do stick around.

1165
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 5: We're going to fill you in on the criminal case

1166
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 5: against Jody Hildebrandt and Rooney Frank and there is a

1167
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 5: lot going on there. Keep it here True Crime Tonight.

1168
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1169
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

1170
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong.

1171
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 3: And body move in.

1172
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 2: So we're going to clear the palette a little bit

1173
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 2: heavy talk between transhumanism and oh my goodness, active shooters

1174
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 2: in Uvaldi Tah tell us.

1175
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 3: We have a talk back to lighten us.

1176
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 4: We our cards are heavy.

1177
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 6: We need something, we need to change the energy right now,

1178
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 6: and I have a talk that I guarantee to make

1179
01:02:58,560 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 6: all of you laugh.

1180
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 4: So okay, well, I gotta tell you.

1181
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 9: I actually feel all the love from you guys. But

1182
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 9: unfortunately you can put me in the same category as

1183
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 9: Betty because I will never be able to call in

1184
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 9: on the live show. I am a garbage truck driver

1185
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 9: and that means I'm asleep by nine o'clock, especially on

1186
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 9: a wesnight, which simultaneously is every single night.

1187
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 4: So I'll continue to give you good vibes and your talkbacks.

1188
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 4: Emily from North of Boston.

1189
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 3: You are r I love that voice.

1190
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness done, such good energy.

1191
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 6: Yes, did you catch that she's a truck driver and

1192
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 6: she's a driver.

1193
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 4: Such a hard gig and nobody better to do it?

1194
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 4: Hold on truck driver or garbage truck driver? Garbage truck driver? Yeah,

1195
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 4: what I thought? Which good? Such hard night tears up.

1196
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 5: My favorite high school boyfriend who I did it for

1197
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 5: seven years, was older than me and a garbage man,

1198
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 5: and I would always make them say the same joke,

1199
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 5: how's work picking up?

1200
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I'm very obsessed. I was obsessed with them.

1201
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 4: Can you imagine if we didn't have garbage truck drivers, like,

1202
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 4: what would we do? It would be the World War

1203
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 4: society which collapse. That's what loreenes do.

1204
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 5: Like number one when they go into a place that

1205
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 5: means anything is to deal with the garbage because it

1206
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 5: literally would ruin our civilization.

1207
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 4: So thank you for keeping civilization. Emily is responsible for

1208
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 4: fixing civilization. So thank you, Emily North of Boston.

1209
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 3: Superhero Emily. And boy, that voice is a cheer up

1210
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 3: for sure. By the way, you are so right.

1211
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 2: Because Betty, who's Courtney Armstrong's beloved mother, we.

1212
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 4: Can never get her to call in live.

1213
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 2: Honestly, she's like, nope, not interested, but by the way,

1214
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 2: she's so funny and she's perspective.

1215
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, but like once in a blue mood, can you

1216
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 4: set an alarm and talk about the.

1217
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 2: Kennedy's or some sort of talk about the royals for example,

1218
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 2: like come on, this is like her, this is her category.

1219
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 2: She's a little like almost psychic. I think you know

1220
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 2: she's a good yeah, better is yeah.

1221
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 4: Mm hmm, Well we'll see. Anyway, Well that was a

1222
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 4: great talk back. That was great. But yeah, and uh yeah,

1223
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 4: hats off, high fives.

1224
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 2: We're giving you high fives. Thanks for giving the garbage

1225
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 2: going and we will tell her come in.

1226
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, so thanks for that talkback. This is true crime tonight.

1227
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 4: We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna get to some case

1228
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 4: talk though, right now, right so, if you want to

1229
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 4: win and give us a call eighty eight thirty one

1230
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 4: Crime or hit us on the talkbacks in the iHeart

1231
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 4: Radio at Courtney. What do you got for us? Okay?

1232
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 4: I finished this documentary right before air I did so.

1233
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 5: Netflix released dot called Evil Influencer, the Jody Hildebrandt Story.

1234
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 5: It's a pretty quick watch and it's the crime itself

1235
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 5: is really compelling, and so are the people involved. So

1236
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 5: the doc centers around this woman Jody Hildebrandt, who was

1237
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 5: this very very controversial counselor turned life coach, and she

1238
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 5: became a convicted child abuser. And it really covers her

1239
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 5: connection to mommy influencer Ruby Frank. So Ruby Frank picture

1240
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 5: very shiny family mommy blogger.

1241
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 1: She had.

1242
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 4: Her and her family.

1243
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 5: It was called Eight Passengers their YouTube channel, and it

1244
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 5: documented her life. So Ruby Frank, her husband Kevin Frank,

1245
01:06:57,560 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 5: and their six kids, hence the eight Passengers.

1246
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 4: So they started out as squeaky clean.

1247
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 5: Mormon family values, and then Ruby Frank started to come

1248
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 5: under a little bit of suspicion because she would her

1249
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 5: punishment methods, you know, like withholding food.

1250
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 4: And like she would starve her kids. Yes, she would

1251
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 4: make them sleep on the floor and starve them and

1252
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 4: then a lot but like display it for all of YouTube.

1253
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 4: And by the way, she had lots of followers, like

1254
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 4: lots of subscriber They were making real.

1255
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 3: Money, a real much show, right.

1256
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, there were over two point five million subscribers and

1257
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 5: a billion views by twenty twenty. But the stuff that

1258
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 5: you guys are talking about, the starvation and everything else

1259
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 5: came a little towards the end, so it started off

1260
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 5: much squeakier clean, And it also seems that Ruby Frank

1261
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 5: really devolved as time went on, I mean, beyond the star.

1262
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 5: She would literally make her children go up and stairs,

1263
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 5: carrying up and downstairs carrying heavy boxes. There was a

1264
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 5: trampoline that was a punishment trampoline that the kids would need.

1265
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 4: To jump on.

1266
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 5: Just for hours and don't stop. And if they would stop,

1267
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 5: then Ruby Frank was like the devil's in them and

1268
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 5: making them defiant. So, okay, Ruby Frank, who again is

1269
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 5: a Mormon. She ends up meeting this counselor, Jody Hildebrand.

1270
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 5: Now Hildebrand was a licensed counselor. She did have her

1271
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 5: permit or her credentials under review, but she really rose

1272
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 5: to have a large clientele because she focused on Mormon

1273
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 5: families and addiction and sexuality, and she was one of

1274
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 5: the few people that the leaders of the Mormon churches

1275
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 5: would send their members to.

1276
01:08:58,439 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 4: And they said they were recommending her.

1277
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 5: Correct, okay, and turns out that this Jody Hildebrant, it's

1278
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 5: got a little vibes of Lori Valo and Joovel in

1279
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 5: terms of Jody hildebrandt had what came to seem to

1280
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 5: be a god complex. Ultimately that evolves so as she

1281
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 5: was not just counseling individuals and couples and their children,

1282
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 5: she was also selling different things online and was earning.

1283
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 5: It's a lot to be about fifty thousand dollars a

1284
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 5: month from this kind.

1285
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:38,680
Speaker 2: Fifty thousand dollars a month in counseling. By the way,

1286
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 2: this is not a broad stroke on all things Mormon, right, It.

1287
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 4: Just happened to be.

1288
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 7: This was a thing.

1289
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 3: By the way, I've seen this.

1290
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 2: I don't love this doc so much, to be honest,

1291
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 2: I really liked The Devil in the Family, which is

1292
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 2: more about Ruby's side, the mother's side. Yep, because you're

1293
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 2: the mother of eight children. Tell me whatever you want.

1294
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:05,640
Speaker 2: You're allowing this person into your home, therapist or otherwise

1295
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 2: to sway you to be the devil in your home

1296
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:15,679
Speaker 2: and do terrible things to your children. You're accountable, period, true,

1297
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,719
Speaker 2: and she did really terrible things to her kids.

1298
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 4: Tell me what you want.

1299
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 2: I think that became lesbian lovers too, weren't they like

1300
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 2: lovers at some point?

1301
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:27,799
Speaker 3: Alluded to you by it's got a question.

1302
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 4: Mark after it. It's funny the daughter did indicate that

1303
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 4: in the book.

1304
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 5: However, just recently, I believe it was on a Good

1305
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 5: Morning America don't quote me appearance kind.

1306
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 4: Of backpedaled a little bit. Oh really, but but it is.

1307
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 5: And it was very strange, and they were sleeping in

1308
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 5: the same bed. And you know, to your point, Ruby Frank,

1309
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 5: that this beautiful blogger invited her counselor into the home

1310
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 5: when the counselor was having like her own nervous breakdown,

1311
01:10:58,280 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 5: and it's like, you know what, come join my family

1312
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 5: and might have eight kids.

1313
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 3: And her husbands in this big, fancy house.

1314
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 2: Listen, I'm cashing in on all of them just by

1315
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 2: like parenting and living my life. She's just doing what

1316
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 2: every other mother does in America, which is like schools

1317
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 2: and getting to and getting from. But she got real

1318
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 2: firm with the like the punishments. She wasn't grounding her

1319
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 2: kids or she wasn't taking away their iPhone. She was like, no, no,

1320
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:26,480
Speaker 2: you're not going to eat for three days. I'm paraphrasing.

1321
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 2: This is not exact, And don't let that like squeaky

1322
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 2: little blonde happy face fool you.

1323
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 4: She was really venomous and shewed her children and that's very,

1324
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 4: very bad because it escalated.

1325
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 3: It really escalated.

1326
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, weren't they like rubbing open wounds with like Tyanne

1327
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 4: Pepper and whatnot?

1328
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:47,839
Speaker 3: Exactly?

1329
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 5: Yes, so the wicked things and when So the situation

1330
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 5: ultimately devolved, not evolved.

1331
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 4: Into this counselor.

1332
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 5: Jody Hildebrandt take to Ruby Frank's kids to unled right,

1333
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 5: there were the two middle Oh actually yeah.

1334
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 6: So and why was that?

1335
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 4: Why the middle?

1336
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 5: You know what, maybe maybe I'm confused with the six kids,

1337
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 5: but it was a paramid.

1338
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 2: It was can say this the sun they were spoken

1339
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 2: out against. Her dad is like, I don't know what

1340
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 2: it all went sideways. I was like very busy at

1341
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 2: work and everything seemed cool, and it certainly wasn't. Mom

1342
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 2: Ruby invites this woman into her home, the counselor, but

1343
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:36,879
Speaker 2: she doesn't just like go to counseling.

1344
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 4: It's not like you go to counseling.

1345
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 2: You go to an office or you have a zoom

1346
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 2: and you chat and you share your life for an

1347
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 2: hour and you pay and you leave. You don't move

1348
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 2: her in and then sleep with her in the same bed.

1349
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 2: So Mom's off the she's off the rails a little

1350
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 2: bit here and honestly, I think it was because she

1351
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:59,720
Speaker 2: was like a pretty, like cheery, outwardly looking, optimistic mom

1352
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 2: who was doing it all and making the rest of

1353
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:05,560
Speaker 2: the world, including myself, feel bad because she's just like

1354
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 2: everything's perfect and no, she was like a monster. And

1355
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 2: I think that's where we all kind of bumped on

1356
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:15,879
Speaker 2: this case, especially because she was literally like doing videos

1357
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 2: in her beautiful little house, in her curated little living

1358
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 2: room and talking about how great the world is. Meanwhile,

1359
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 2: she's straight up abusing her kids. Yet she had the

1360
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 2: time to like put a curling iron too her hair,

1361
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 2: and put full makeup on and red lipstick and put

1362
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 2: on a cute little outfit and acts like an Instagram mom.

1363
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 2: And it was so inauthentic, and I think everybody felt

1364
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 2: had and the kids were straight up being abused, Oh

1365
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 2: they absolutely were.

1366
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 5: And what the sort of tipping point that brought this

1367
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:53,200
Speaker 5: into the legal sphere, thankfully is again, two children, as

1368
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 5: just had Body twelve and ten, a boy and a

1369
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 5: girl were taken from the Frank house to live with

1370
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,639
Speaker 5: this counselor pardon me right, Yeah, they went.

1371
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 2: To the body has the cough? Are you guys getting

1372
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 2: the flu?

1373
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 6: Right now?

1374
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:04,240
Speaker 5: Both.

1375
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:08,320
Speaker 4: I don't know, you didn't that silence exact possible.

1376
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:11,519
Speaker 2: I had a flu shot and I felt weird about

1377
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:12,920
Speaker 2: it because I know it doesn't really cover it.

1378
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 4: I'm so confused by all the shots. Are we all

1379
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 4: getting the flu? That doesn't look it? No, it's not,

1380
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 4: it's not happening.

1381
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:23,599
Speaker 3: No, no, take everybody takes the vitamin.

1382
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 10: See.

1383
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 4: Sorry, back to this terrible mom purgas.

1384
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 5: Yes, so so these children now under the care of

1385
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 5: the counselor, Jodie Hildebrandt, who has, to your point, infiltrated

1386
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 5: the Frank's family house and kicked the husband out.

1387
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 4: Oh, the husband had to leave the house by the way.

1388
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 4: He was like, I don't know, I just kind of left,

1389
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:47,439
Speaker 4: which was also a little weird, like there was there

1390
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:48,639
Speaker 4: was some domestic issues.

1391
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:51,600
Speaker 5: Well it was, but that's that's why I mentioned and

1392
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 5: it was not. I'm glad someone clarified. I'm not trying

1393
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:59,439
Speaker 5: to paint Mormons as any title. No, ever, it didn't

1394
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:03,080
Speaker 5: feel that way. But but that's the reason, because because

1395
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:09,639
Speaker 5: this counselor did this to multiple families and would literally

1396
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,760
Speaker 5: kick the husband out first a year to say he

1397
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 5: needs to just go away. And the reason that people

1398
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:22,719
Speaker 5: were following her guidance is because she was almost blessed

1399
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:24,519
Speaker 5: by the church saying, you know, this is a person

1400
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 5: we should listen to.

1401
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 4: So that's all. She was using her.

1402
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:32,920
Speaker 5: Her place of authority for real evil and found the

1403
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 5: perfect pair in Ruby Frank, who was happy enough to

1404
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 5: perform evil on her own children. So ultimately the two

1405
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:42,679
Speaker 5: kids are living with the counselor. The twelve year old

1406
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:48,560
Speaker 5: boy breaks free and you can see the footage of

1407
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:55,440
Speaker 5: him going up to a neighboring house. He is grossly malnourished.

1408
01:15:55,640 --> 01:16:02,599
Speaker 5: He's like emaciated, He's emaciated completely, and yes, his wounds

1409
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:07,559
Speaker 5: which were caused by really rough stuff. He was being

1410
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 5: tied up. The DA described it as being hog tied,

1411
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:14,599
Speaker 5: which is your hands.

1412
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 2: Mother by his mother, little perky blonde mother with full

1413
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 2: makeup and like curly waves in her hair, wearing a

1414
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:25,800
Speaker 2: cute little outfit, and had the nerve to do it

1415
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 2: on TV as if she was a supermom, and then

1416
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 2: it was hog tying her twelve year old son. She's

1417
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 2: a sickoh, I don't know, nobody can influence you to

1418
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 2: be that much of a sicko.

1419
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 4: I'm sorry.

1420
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 5: No, absolutely to do that absolutely not, but it was

1421
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:48,560
Speaker 5: a very strange. It was one of the stranger relationships

1422
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:50,920
Speaker 5: between the counselor and yeah, those.

1423
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 4: Two were like shacking up in bed.

1424
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 3: And by the way, they're like, isn't there a sentence?

1425
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 1: So weird?

1426
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:59,719
Speaker 2: It's like you've been sentenced to two to forty years,

1427
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 2: Like it was like a really wide range.

1428
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, what it is is there were four counts that

1429
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 5: they each pled guilty to, and each count the judge

1430
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:16,040
Speaker 5: wanted to have its own sentence. So each of those

1431
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:21,400
Speaker 5: was from one to fifteen years, which translates to four

1432
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 5: to thirty. I guess they cut it in half for

1433
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 5: good behavior, but that's why because I was curious about that.

1434
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:33,759
Speaker 5: But yeah, ultimately, so these women are very thankfully behind bars.

1435
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 5: And you know, as you mentioned, Stephanie Ruby, Frank's daughter,

1436
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 5: the eldest daughter, has written a book and she tells

1437
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:44,880
Speaker 5: her side of things.

1438
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:49,599
Speaker 4: But it just I remember I remember hearing a lot

1439
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:52,000
Speaker 4: about this, and I remember just being just horrifying, and

1440
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:54,439
Speaker 4: she just really really abused these children, both of them.

1441
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:57,320
Speaker 4: We'll stick around. We've got more to dig into. We

1442
01:17:57,439 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 4: have some good talkbacks to get to, and I've been

1443
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 4: told I have heard them, but I've been told Courtney

1444
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:03,559
Speaker 4: is going to love them.

1445
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 9: Yay.

1446
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1447
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:23,960
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with body

1448
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:28,679
Speaker 2: and Courtney dancing fools, these little chickens. They are dancing

1449
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:30,400
Speaker 2: fools and I love it.

1450
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:34,559
Speaker 4: Lies. I'm a dancing queen.

1451
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, take I listened dancing queens, dancing and amazing queens.

1452
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 4: But the breaks, everybody kind of like that was a

1453
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 4: great one. So anyway, let's go to a talk like.

1454
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 3: By the way, I have a stinking.

1455
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 2: Suspicion where this talkback is going, because Courtney Armstrong has

1456
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 2: created a swell.

1457
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 4: Oh it's the.

1458
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:59,479
Speaker 2: Yes, Paypy numbers is real and by the way, I

1459
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 2: think it serves so well.

1460
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:02,759
Speaker 3: So hit us with a talkback.

1461
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 10: What ye and Happy New Year? Listening to the paint

1462
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:10,799
Speaker 10: by numbers. Actually do one and it's called a quirkle,

1463
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 10: and it is a paint or color by numbers, but

1464
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 10: you pick different shades of one color and at the

1465
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:22,599
Speaker 10: end reveals an image and it's cool.

1466
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:25,600
Speaker 4: Wait, so it's like a surprise ending. You don't know

1467
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:29,960
Speaker 4: what you're making. It's like light bright, but you know

1468
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 4: Courtney's doing research right now. I can see you. I

1469
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:35,080
Speaker 4: can see your We have.

1470
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:37,839
Speaker 3: To post some of Courtney's paint by numbers.

1471
01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 2: Let's post it on the KT website, because we'll post

1472
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:44,600
Speaker 2: it on the at kat Studios website or maybe the

1473
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:47,800
Speaker 2: Instagram or something, or the instagram exactly. I don't even

1474
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 2: know how that works exactly, but somebody will do it

1475
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:52,560
Speaker 2: because Assive it really is.

1476
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 6: Just sent it and I was like, I did not,

1477
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 6: so you've seen it. Yes, I got it. After the

1478
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,200
Speaker 6: show she said, here's what they were talking about. And

1479
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:04,519
Speaker 6: my mouth open, I'm like, yeah, amazing. I was ridden what.

1480
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 4: I was not expecting it to be so nice. I

1481
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 4: really wasn't.

1482
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,200
Speaker 2: It was that good that if anybody met me for

1483
01:20:10,280 --> 01:20:13,200
Speaker 2: the first time, I would say that I was an artist.

1484
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 4: And share my worm. Yeah you want to see my work,

1485
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 4: and I would have it up and my friend would

1486
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 4: be like, what did you do this weekend?

1487
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:20,040
Speaker 10: Just this.

1488
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 4: Viperse.

1489
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:24,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really good.

1490
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:27,120
Speaker 4: So court you've created as well.

1491
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:28,080
Speaker 3: Everybody's excited.

1492
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,760
Speaker 5: I love it, and it's so accessible. These sets, I mean,

1493
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:35,599
Speaker 5: I have different kinds from Amazon. They are it can

1494
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 5: be twelve dollars for you know, two in a pack

1495
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 5: and it comes with the brushes and the tame. No,

1496
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:45,680
Speaker 5: it's not, and it's and it takes a while, so

1497
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 5: it's a good time investment. But the quirkle painting.

1498
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 6: So what is this? I I'm trying to I don't

1499
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:58,719
Speaker 6: think it's electronic, but it seems like as you're painting,

1500
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 6: it sort of guide you as to which area to paint,

1501
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,840
Speaker 6: and once it's all done, it reveals something. But I'm

1502
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:09,840
Speaker 6: trying to understand how it's laid out. It doesn't I'm I.

1503
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:12,639
Speaker 2: Was selling as I fell asleep last night of Courtney

1504
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:17,320
Speaker 2: painting having a paint by numbers and then your young son,

1505
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:17,960
Speaker 2: you know.

1506
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 7: I.

1507
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:25,200
Speaker 2: Who was painting a swear word. And then it's so

1508
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 2: funny that giggle. I giggled if my sleeep last night

1509
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 2: just thinking of that story.

1510
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:32,360
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, that's funny.

1511
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:37,040
Speaker 5: But yeah, you paint lines of tiles that share the

1512
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:41,720
Speaker 5: color but are different shapes, and I don't know, it's

1513
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:42,600
Speaker 5: a surprise at the end.

1514
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:43,599
Speaker 4: I'm going to need to get.

1515
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:46,960
Speaker 6: Into it or we will have this fan except the

1516
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:50,519
Speaker 6: person that explained it a little bit more. But there's

1517
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 6: an intrigued Actually another one about the aura. Oh my goodness,

1518
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:56,679
Speaker 6: swell with the painting world. Let's get that one going.

1519
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 7: Big fans strolling from Masay Arizona. I just want to

1520
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 7: say I was listening to your Sunday podcast on Monday morning.

1521
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:04,479
Speaker 7: I was off for my walk. Later that night, my

1522
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 7: wife and I went out to dinner and she's sitting

1523
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:09,680
Speaker 7: across from me, and she real seriously said, hey, I

1524
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 7: need a new hobby. Said, hey, how about paint by numbers?

1525
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 7: Courtney Armstrong? Tell us all about it. She loved, So

1526
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:18,160
Speaker 7: you are starting a new revolution.

1527
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:19,680
Speaker 6: Thank you, great thing.

1528
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 4: Oh my god, yeah, that is the first of all.

1529
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:24,040
Speaker 3: Best talk back.

1530
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:26,320
Speaker 4: I love that accent.

1531
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:28,840
Speaker 3: Where is that Boston? It has to be It's.

1532
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 4: Northeast for sure. I was like, since Long Island or

1533
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 4: one of the burrows of Boston.

1534
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just my heart just rips open and court

1535
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:45,519
Speaker 2: we were starting a painting revolution real time, Courtney Armstrong.

1536
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:47,400
Speaker 5: May we all have a little more peace and a

1537
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:49,719
Speaker 5: little more pleasure and a little more beauty in our lives.

1538
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:53,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, twelve bucks a pop. Yes, you get to start

1539
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 4: a paint by numbers line, probably.

1540
01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:05,320
Speaker 2: Allegedly, but it's so true because, like I think, the

1541
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:08,200
Speaker 2: meditative piece of it is such a nice thing.

1542
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 4: One of these days, I'm gonna your Courtney's gonna teach us.

1543
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:17,200
Speaker 4: Like for me, I get a lot of satisfaction with

1544
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:21,120
Speaker 4: like coloring books, you know, because like, do you guys

1545
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:23,960
Speaker 4: ever watch those videos where you know, like maybe it's

1546
01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:27,479
Speaker 4: a roofer or something and like laying things down in

1547
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:31,120
Speaker 4: the line. It's just so satisfying, right like or somebody

1548
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:34,639
Speaker 4: somebody you know, laying brick and there you know, it's

1549
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 4: everything just this lines up right well when you fill

1550
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 4: in a line and the coloring book like a shape,

1551
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 4: like a triangle. Let's say, it's just very satisfying to me.

1552
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 4: So I could I could see myself really enjoying the

1553
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 4: paint by numbers. I'm literally going overboard with it. So

1554
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:50,720
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna do it because it's just gonna be

1555
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:57,040
Speaker 4: a mess. Like there's gonna be everywhere watching bricks being laid.

1556
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 4: By the way, I like you out of the plays

1557
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 4: ever watch the videos.

1558
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:05,880
Speaker 2: No, I want Courtney to only waste them though, I

1559
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:08,960
Speaker 2: kept telling her the videos.

1560
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:13,240
Speaker 4: For the soap cutting. Have you ever seen soap cutting cutting?

1561
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 3: It makes me crazy. Just take the damn soap and

1562
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:16,840
Speaker 3: wash your body.

1563
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:18,680
Speaker 4: What is that?

1564
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 3: Okay?

1565
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:21,320
Speaker 4: So it's a bar of soap and there's like a

1566
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:25,040
Speaker 4: really sharp it's just like a like a beautiful bar

1567
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:27,519
Speaker 4: of soap that people make, you know, like you know

1568
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:29,559
Speaker 4: people are in soap and it's just so beautiful.

1569
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 2: Yea.

1570
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 4: These are always like beautiful soaps that people make and

1571
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:35,560
Speaker 4: they it's only it's a it's a they're videos of

1572
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:37,800
Speaker 4: like in just the hand and the soap and there's

1573
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:40,959
Speaker 4: a knife and they cut the soap into like perfect

1574
01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:46,040
Speaker 4: squares like they shave it. It's fascinating to me. But

1575
01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:47,760
Speaker 4: visually it's very satisfying.

1576
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:50,879
Speaker 6: It's watching each piece cut, yeah.

1577
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:54,040
Speaker 4: Watching each piece cuss and so paint by numbers for

1578
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:58,759
Speaker 4: me seems very satisfying because you're filling in those those shapes.

1579
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:01,960
Speaker 4: I would explain, I'm on that. It's true.

1580
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 3: That is a real thing.

1581
01:25:04,240 --> 01:25:08,520
Speaker 2: It is as you described, like the mesmerizing. It's mesmerizing.

1582
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 2: It's very calming. It's like already opening with beautiful long nails. Open, yes,

1583
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:16,799
Speaker 2: a gift slowly or wrapping something.

1584
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 4: I don't like the audible SMR stuff like the I

1585
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:27,200
Speaker 4: don't like it. I like visual, Like it's very satisfying

1586
01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:30,840
Speaker 4: seeing things get filled in like paint by numbers and

1587
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 4: it's very mathematical of you.

1588
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:34,040
Speaker 6: Well yeah, well is it?

1589
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1590
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 6: I actually does track feels like it's you like.

1591
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 2: Things very organized, very yeah, and that is like you

1592
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:47,360
Speaker 2: are a problem solver by nature. You're an analyst. You know,

1593
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:52,320
Speaker 2: that makes perfect sense to me. Whereas I'm like messy

1594
01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:54,160
Speaker 2: and outside of the lines my paint.

1595
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:59,320
Speaker 4: You're very creative, and then I'd be like drawing the

1596
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:01,400
Speaker 4: sun and paint by numbers of the moon.

1597
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 6: You know, it's like.

1598
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:05,440
Speaker 4: Directions.

1599
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:07,599
Speaker 3: Why are we not using the pain that they gave us?

1600
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 4: Like totally annoying. My point in bringing any of that

1601
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:12,439
Speaker 4: up and the filling is maybe that's why you find

1602
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:16,160
Speaker 4: it relaxing, coortanting. Maybe you share the similar you know

1603
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 4: mind with me or that it's satisfying and relaxing and

1604
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:23,719
Speaker 4: it just it relaxes your brain to fill in those gaps.

1605
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:28,200
Speaker 4: And I'm very and it's very articulate and very you know. Yeah,

1606
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:29,519
Speaker 4: I think I.

1607
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:32,160
Speaker 6: Ever watched the videos, like there's somewhere you see people

1608
01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:33,160
Speaker 6: cleaning home.

1609
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:37,759
Speaker 4: Like the rug cleaning. I am obsessed with the rug cleaning.

1610
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:41,599
Speaker 4: Have you watched the rug cleaning? So there's these companies,

1611
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:43,400
Speaker 4: Oh my god, you guys got to watch rug cleaning.

1612
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:47,639
Speaker 4: So they there's companies that clean like really expensive rugs. Right. Well,

1613
01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:52,960
Speaker 4: for whatever reason, you know, some of these rugs are disgusting. Okay,

1614
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:57,839
Speaker 4: so these companies film themselves cleaning it. No, they're incredible.

1615
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 4: So they bring in these beautiful rugs or you know,

1616
01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 4: these dirty, beautiful rugs. Yeah, maybe they maybe there was

1617
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:06,719
Speaker 4: a flood in the house or something person and there's

1618
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:09,080
Speaker 4: uh they lay them on the floor in this cleaning

1619
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:12,760
Speaker 4: facility and they you know, hose them down and they

1620
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:15,559
Speaker 4: then they take a broom, a wet broom, and they

1621
01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:18,840
Speaker 4: scrape all the water out. Oh, it's so satisfying, it's

1622
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:25,439
Speaker 4: so yes, and then the beautiful rug is exposed and

1623
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:27,479
Speaker 4: it's just And this is on video.

1624
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:36,800
Speaker 6: Where do you this inst everywhere just watching people clean

1625
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:39,720
Speaker 6: and organized people watching like.

1626
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:41,920
Speaker 2: This is how I meditate, too, is just cleaning my

1627
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 2: own house. I'm forever cleaning out a closet.

1628
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:48,559
Speaker 4: And Stephanie's house every inch is so clean.

1629
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:52,639
Speaker 2: I love I don't love it, but I can't function

1630
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:58,760
Speaker 2: if it's not clean. It's probably the same, it's the same. Yeah,

1631
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:02,040
Speaker 2: we're all scratching the same itch in different ways. But

1632
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:04,920
Speaker 2: I'm like Okay, then I can think and relax and

1633
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:07,560
Speaker 2: enjoy it when it's spotless.

1634
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:09,960
Speaker 4: You have got to watch the cleaning videos because this

1635
01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:12,120
Speaker 4: is what they do. Get this, some of them, they

1636
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 4: get a sink, a bathroom sink. Okay, stressed, I watch this.

1637
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:19,400
Speaker 4: You get a bathroom sink. And then they have like

1638
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:23,599
Speaker 4: Commet and Ajax and you know all the different cleaning supplies, right,

1639
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:26,880
Speaker 4: and somebody sends them a twenty dollars super chat through

1640
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 4: YouTube and says, Okay, take the Ajax, the Comet, the

1641
01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:34,639
Speaker 4: four oh nine and the Fabuloso and mix it together

1642
01:28:34,680 --> 01:28:36,360
Speaker 4: and clean the sink. And that's so the person gets

1643
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 4: the money and they do that so they get paid.

1644
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:40,720
Speaker 4: Do these people I should get paid to do.

1645
01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:42,479
Speaker 8: It?

1646
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:46,479
Speaker 4: Should be very careful when you're, i know, mixing those

1647
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:49,840
Speaker 4: chemicals together. Yeah, not to money, but honestly, you put

1648
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:52,880
Speaker 4: the wrong things together. It's literally mustard gas that you got.

1649
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:55,320
Speaker 4: I know, trust me, I totally know. But I watch them.

1650
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:58,720
Speaker 4: It's like, it's not worth twenty bucks if you're doing that. No,

1651
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:00,400
Speaker 4: they make they do it all day long.

1652
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 2: It's you know, that is interesting because what is that

1653
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:05,880
Speaker 2: itch that we're all scratching though? Because it seems like

1654
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:08,560
Speaker 2: the same. I'm for sure neurotic. My closets look like

1655
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:11,120
Speaker 2: I work at the gap, which I have, you know,

1656
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 2: like I take that Reil series. It makes me crazy

1657
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:15,280
Speaker 2: when my sweaters are out of order, but we have

1658
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:17,519
Speaker 2: four of them, but like either way they be lined

1659
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:18,600
Speaker 2: up in perfect.

1660
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:19,280
Speaker 4: And mine's a disaster.

1661
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:25,560
Speaker 2: I we're watching rugs be cleaned, but then yours is

1662
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 2: a disaster. That's yes, Oh, oh that's fair. It's it's

1663
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:32,880
Speaker 2: the same itch. We're just all scratching it in different

1664
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:33,599
Speaker 2: right right.

1665
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:35,519
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm like Steph, I can't have it if it's

1666
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:37,120
Speaker 6: all in a disarray. I can't.

1667
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:40,240
Speaker 4: I'm the same. Yeah, I feel the same way when

1668
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:44,280
Speaker 4: things are chaotic. I'm I can't sleep. I yeah, I know, yeah, taha.

1669
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:46,479
Speaker 4: What are your weird videos that you see, like the

1670
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:47,400
Speaker 4: rug cleaning or.

1671
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:49,679
Speaker 6: The oh that's so And I was saying, like, there's

1672
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:51,760
Speaker 6: there a couple of them where you see people take

1673
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:54,920
Speaker 6: from top to bottom cleaning every morn and the like

1674
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:58,000
Speaker 6: first way all their dirty dishes and wash them. Now

1675
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:00,160
Speaker 6: they move over and then they start to fold they're

1676
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 6: closed and put it away, and so you see the

1677
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:05,320
Speaker 6: house in disarray and slowly see it become organized.

1678
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:06,479
Speaker 4: They're very popular.

1679
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:08,760
Speaker 3: Where do you you just watch this?

1680
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:10,800
Speaker 4: Do you actually watch it or is it like in

1681
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:14,280
Speaker 4: the background it's just staring at it.

1682
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,960
Speaker 6: And they're cut together so you see each one done

1683
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 6: in a way so it's stylized.

1684
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:24,679
Speaker 4: But have you seen the bottles going down the stairs?

1685
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:28,680
Speaker 4: This is so stressful even just thinking about bottles downstairs?

1686
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:32,280
Speaker 4: It makes me crazy. Are they glass bottles? Because that's

1687
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:39,479
Speaker 4: even crazier. No, Like you're like, oh, I wonder how

1688
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:41,840
Speaker 4: like they'll start it and you're like, Okay, this is

1689
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:44,160
Speaker 4: going to go down four stairs, I think, and it

1690
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 4: goes don't don't and then it explodes and only the

1691
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:52,439
Speaker 4: three it's I don't know. I love them. Yeah, any

1692
01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:55,000
Speaker 4: of your times and clean up your closets. What's your

1693
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:58,720
Speaker 4: favorite ASMR? That's what I want to know. Yeah, tell us,

1694
01:30:58,760 --> 01:31:01,240
Speaker 4: tell us what do you heard stuff while you're watching?

1695
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:04,280
Speaker 4: We showed you ours, you should show yours.

1696
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:06,840
Speaker 6: Let's get people to call in with bears because yeah,

1697
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:09,479
Speaker 6: I'd love to know a new swell. Right, We're going

1698
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 6: to get tons and tons of calls about that, but

1699
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:12,880
Speaker 6: we love it. Please.

1700
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:16,360
Speaker 4: I have met so many people that are obsessed with

1701
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:18,640
Speaker 4: the rug cleaning though, for real, like everyone I talk to,

1702
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:20,160
Speaker 4: so for you, guys, I don't even know why I'm talking.

1703
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:22,800
Speaker 4: I know what you're talking about. I'm satisfying, but I'm

1704
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:24,000
Speaker 4: going to send you somebody.

1705
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:27,080
Speaker 2: Okay, I need to be hooked on something else, like

1706
01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:28,800
Speaker 2: a hole in the head, but send it my way

1707
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:30,920
Speaker 2: because I'm sure if you love it, I'll love it too.

1708
01:31:31,720 --> 01:31:33,960
Speaker 3: So why not clean your own rug? I'm just for

1709
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:37,120
Speaker 3: ever cleaning my own I don't like my gun is welcome?

1710
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:37,560
Speaker 4: Thank you?

1711
01:31:37,680 --> 01:31:39,360
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, don't take your shoes off and then

1712
01:31:39,479 --> 01:31:46,240
Speaker 2: like behind you, I'm cleaning it. It's totally fine it

1713
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:48,200
Speaker 2: if you cleaning it instantly.

1714
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:53,519
Speaker 6: So yeah, what do we want to hear? One more?

1715
01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:55,280
Speaker 6: Talk back? There's the one that I wanted you to hear,

1716
01:31:55,400 --> 01:31:58,320
Speaker 6: where someone is suggesting something that I think you might

1717
01:31:58,400 --> 01:31:58,880
Speaker 6: all agree with.

1718
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:03,639
Speaker 11: Love Happy twenty twenty six, ladies, It's Mac from Idaho. Okay,

1719
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:07,840
Speaker 11: I'm going to pitch an idea. What if besides sweatshirts

1720
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:11,120
Speaker 11: and waited vests, we got like a True Crime Tonight

1721
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:15,120
Speaker 11: branded personal safety alarm. I got one for my sister.

1722
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:20,200
Speaker 11: She's been having this like real freaky situation with a stalker. Anyway,

1723
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:23,599
Speaker 11: you pull the top off and it makes this shrieking sound.

1724
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:26,560
Speaker 11: There's strobelides. I personally can't have one just because I

1725
01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:28,760
Speaker 11: have seizures. So maybe there is a way to make

1726
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:31,680
Speaker 11: it seizure friendly. But I just thought it would be

1727
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:34,720
Speaker 11: cool to have a little safety device because we're just

1728
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:37,720
Speaker 11: trying to be safe out here, and like stuff says, Oh,

1729
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:41,439
Speaker 11: it could say stay safe, like stuff says at the

1730
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:42,439
Speaker 11: end of the episode.

1731
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:45,519
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Yes, what do you think? What do

1732
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:48,120
Speaker 4: you think? I love working out on the phone?

1733
01:32:48,439 --> 01:32:53,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, high five. By the way, I bought for my nieces.

1734
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 3: I have to send it to him.

1735
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:56,479
Speaker 2: Still, these like little things that you put, by the way,

1736
01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:58,719
Speaker 2: great suggestion, by the way, because you say come.

1737
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:00,640
Speaker 3: There, especially if you're walking after darker.

1738
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:01,160
Speaker 4: In the mornings.

1739
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:05,080
Speaker 2: You're hoodie with a little true crime tonight waited best

1740
01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 2: down to the bone.

1741
01:33:06,400 --> 01:33:07,120
Speaker 4: I'm so into it.

1742
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:11,400
Speaker 2: But you you can like press an alarm and yeah,

1743
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:14,960
Speaker 2: the seizure safe version of it, so smart.

1744
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:18,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what. It should have a flashlight, the

1745
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:21,439
Speaker 4: alarm and a little pokey thing for your window.

1746
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:23,439
Speaker 6: Oh that's right.

1747
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:25,600
Speaker 4: I bet you we could find them. I bet you

1748
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:27,400
Speaker 4: could find them and get them branded. I bet you're

1749
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 4: twenty six. Baby.

1750
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:31,200
Speaker 2: That's such a great suggestion. And I'm very sorry about

1751
01:33:31,240 --> 01:33:32,719
Speaker 2: your sister's stalker situation.

1752
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:38,320
Speaker 4: That's lame the summer with seizures, But what a great suggestion.

1753
01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:41,720
Speaker 4: We're crazy for you. I hope you're ending music for

1754
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:47,320
Speaker 4: the whole show. Oh no, okay, well listen. We're back tomorrow.

1755
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:50,040
Speaker 4: Rob Reiner's son Nick Reiner.

1756
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:52,640
Speaker 2: Will be in court, so we'll be obviously covering that,

1757
01:33:53,400 --> 01:33:55,920
Speaker 2: and this night kind of flew by, So we're crazy

1758
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:58,720
Speaker 2: for you. Thank you for listening, and yeah, stay safe

1759
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:01,479
Speaker 2: out there, fynite mine