1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is family Secrets, the secrets 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 2: that are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others, 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 2: and the secrets we keep from ourselves. My guest today 5 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: is Darren Manly, doctor of Law, screenwriter and author. Darren's 6 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 2: is a story of a life shaped by secrets and 7 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 2: the work and grace it takes to get out from 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: under that which haunts us. Tell me about the landscape 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: of your childhood. 10 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 3: Well, my childhood was above all insulated and sheltered to 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 3: a degree. For the first three years of my life, 12 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 3: my parents and I lived in a small suburb of 13 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 3: East Los Angeles called Elserina. We lived in a small apartment, 14 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 3: and when I was about three years old, we moved 15 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 3: to a larger suburb of Los Angeles called Temple City, 16 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 3: and my parents bought their first home and it was 17 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 3: very idyllic. As I remember. My father was fifty seven 18 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 3: when I was born. He was a World War Two veteran, 19 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 3: and my mom was a forty four year old Italian immigrant, 20 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 3: very zealous, very full of life, and I sort of 21 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 3: lived this old fashioned childhood. I remember Frank Sinatra and 22 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 3: Bing Crosby playing on a small record player in our 23 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 3: living room. There was always I Love Lucy or South 24 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 3: Pacific or another musical on TV, and I just remember 25 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 3: being very happy in that environment. I think a lot 26 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 3: of times we idolize our parents as kids, and I 27 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 3: was certainly the case for me. I saw my father 28 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 3: as as a hero. He was a war veteran. He 29 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 3: always protected me, and it only became an issue for 30 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 3: me when I started going to school in pre school, 31 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 3: in kindergarten, in first grade, I discovered things called transformers 32 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: and barbies, and there was somebody on the radio named 33 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 3: Michael Texan singing amazing songs. So that culture clash when 34 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 3: I ventured out into the world of the nineteen eighties 35 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 3: and nineteen nineties did create a bit of a conflict 36 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 3: between my parents and I, because I wanted to belong 37 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 3: and there's nothing more powerful than belonging. 38 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: When you were a child, did you also feel when 39 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 2: you started school, was that like the first time that 40 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: you had an awareness that your parents were probably a 41 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 2: generation older than a lot of the parents of other 42 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: kids your age. 43 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 3: Yes, because up until then they were just mom and dad. 44 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 3: We didn't go out very much. We did take road 45 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 3: trips together as a family, but most of my interactions 46 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 3: were with my parents or with my aunts and uncles, 47 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 3: who were also much older than other aunts and uncles. 48 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: So when I went to school, that was the first 49 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 3: time that I realized, Hey, my parents are there's something 50 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 3: different about them, and that thing is their age. And 51 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 3: it wasn't just the cultural references, it was physical age too, 52 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 3: because I saw that other dads and moms were running 53 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: around on the football field with their kids or able 54 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 3: to bend down and play with them in ways that 55 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 3: my parents tried to and certainly did, but weren't able 56 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 3: to copy to a full degree. 57 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: Though Darren is raised as an only child, he has 58 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: three older half siblings, Karen, Donna, and Michael, from an 59 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: earlier marriage of his Father's not a big part of 60 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 2: Darren's life growing up, but he knows about them and 61 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: occasionally sees them over the years, but for the most part, 62 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 2: it's just Darren and his mom and dad. He enjoys 63 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: the privileges and attention that comes from this dynamic, but 64 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: he badly wants the company of brothers and sisters, something 65 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 2: both his father and mother had when they were growing up. 66 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 3: My mom came from a large family. She was the 67 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 3: youngest of seven in an Italian immigrant family, and my 68 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: father had been the oldest of six in an Irish 69 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 3: immigrant family, and they were complete opposites in terms of personalities. 70 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 3: My mother was very down to earth and my father 71 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 3: was a dreamer. My mother was very frugal, and my 72 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 3: father was frugal to a degree, but he definitely didn't 73 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 3: share her affinity for saving money to the same degree, 74 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 3: so they thought. I witnessed quite a few fights over 75 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 3: small and big things, the main thing of which was 76 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 3: how to raise me, because my parents had different dreams 77 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 3: for me, and I could sense that even from a 78 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: very young age. My father stressed education upward, nobility, making 79 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 3: your mark on the world, and I think in large 80 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 3: part that was due to him having either abandoned or 81 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 3: sabotaged a lot of the potential and dreams that he 82 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 3: had had earlier in life. He talked about it quite 83 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 3: a bit. He came to Los Angeles to be the 84 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 3: next Perry Como or Bing Crosby. He came out here 85 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 3: during the Age of the Crooner, actually, as that big 86 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 3: band era was just fading out and being replaced by 87 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 3: rock and roll. So the timing for him was unfortunate, 88 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 3: and also the circumstances of his life were unfortunate. He 89 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 3: had children with his first wife, Bernice, almost as soon 90 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 3: as he came out here to Los Angeles, and he 91 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 3: talked about it a lot. He would say, if only 92 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 3: I could have done this better, or if only I 93 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 3: had had more time to devote to my writing, which 94 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 3: was another passion of his, or if only I had 95 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 3: had time to devote to passing the LAPD entrance exam. 96 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 3: Being a police officer was another potential avenue for him. 97 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 3: So he talked about these things quite a bit, and 98 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 3: I could sense the regret in his voice, and I 99 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 3: could sense that I felt a sense of duty, even 100 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,559 Speaker 3: from a young age, that I was going to carry 101 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 3: the mantle for him. 102 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 2: And what would carrying that mantle have looked like? What 103 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: were his dreams for you? 104 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 3: Playing sports, which I liked doing. He really wanted me 105 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 3: to play football, be the star quarterback on the football team. 106 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 3: He wanted me to go into the military, which I 107 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 3: very nearly did but for some sabotaging of my own. 108 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 3: And he very much just wanted me to achieve whatever 109 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 3: my own dreams were, because he didn't have a chance 110 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 3: to do that himself, although he did try to steer 111 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 3: me in these specific directions. 112 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: And when you say that he and your mother had 113 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: different dreams for you, what would her dreams have been? 114 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: Much simpler? She wanted me to finish high school, get 115 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 3: a job and understand the difficulty of working, and understand 116 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 3: the value of a dollar, and to get married in 117 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 3: the Catholic Church. That was one of her big hopes 118 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: and dreams for me, so much less emphasis on pedigree 119 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 3: or achievements like that. 120 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: Darren earns a highly coveted Air Force scholarship while in 121 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 2: high school, which is a huge point of pride for 122 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: his father, and so it seems as he heads off 123 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: to holy Cross College that he's going to fulfill his 124 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 2: father's dreams for him. But his time in college quickly 125 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 2: ignites an acute period of rebellion. Darren cutts class parties successively, 126 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: and what happens as a result is that his grades 127 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: plummet and he jeopardizes his scholarship. He's driven to flound 128 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 2: his father's wishes for him, and so he rebels even more. 129 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 3: I think what started to drive me was this was 130 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 3: the first time that I was ever on my own 131 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 3: in life, I was two thousand miles away from my parents, 132 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 3: and because of the way that I'd been sheltered from culture, 133 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 3: from making my own mistakes, from learning of a life 134 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 3: on my own as I was growing up, I was 135 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 3: now on my own, and I wasn't prepared for that. 136 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: Looking back on it, and because I was alone in 137 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 3: my dorm room without my parents' supervision, I discovered entirely 138 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 3: on my own that I enjoyed the freedom of making 139 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 3: my own decisions and not being accountable to anybody else 140 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 3: for them. And beyond that, the people in my life 141 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 3: not knowing the decisions I was making. My parents didn't 142 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 3: know that I was failing out of school, not going 143 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 3: to classes, and that I was losing this scholarship until 144 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 3: close to the very end, when you know, letters started 145 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 3: to get sent and legal notices and things like that, 146 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 3: I discovered all on my own that I enjoyed keeping secrets. 147 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 3: I enjoyed the power that that gave me, even as 148 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 3: it was totally wiping out the progress that I could 149 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 3: have should have been making. I failed out of that 150 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 3: first college, and my father and mother showed up there 151 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 3: in Indiana and they drove me home, and that was 152 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 3: one of the only times that I can ever remember 153 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 3: my father showing true emotion. I remember him crying when 154 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 3: he learned that I had failed out of that college. 155 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 3: So they took me home here to Los Angeles, and 156 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 3: I enrolled in cal State, LA to pick up where 157 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 3: I had left off. And for several years, and I'm 158 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 3: talking maybe six years, it was much of the same, started, stop, 159 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 3: fail out, start again, and I actually came within i 160 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 3: want to say, ten credits of graduating, and then I 161 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 3: just quit and I started working at a county library, 162 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 3: a part time job, and I sort of just fell 163 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:48,359 Speaker 3: into the job and started working, and I never graduated 164 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 3: with a bachelor's degree. 165 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: What would you at the time have said about getting 166 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: ten credits away and not graduating, as opposed to how 167 00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 2: you would see it. 168 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 3: Now, I see it as ludicrous. Back then, I justified 169 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 3: it because I was starting to write and I wanted 170 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 3: to make a career as a writer while I was 171 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 3: working part time at this library, and I remembered my 172 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 3: father didn't graduate from college, and he himself had wanted 173 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 3: to be a writer and was writing still at this time, 174 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 3: and so it gave me a certain sense of comfort 175 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 3: or justification to say, Hey, you had a chance to 176 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 3: go to college, Dad, you wanted to be a writer. 177 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 3: Were in this together, and believe it or not, he 178 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: sort of bought that. After a while, he bought it 179 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 3: and didn't put up any more of a fight. He 180 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 3: had fought so hard for me to get that college degree. 181 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 3: But as he got older and I put up more 182 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 3: and more of a fight, myself is just faded away. 183 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: During this period in Darren's life, in his early and 184 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: mid twenties, he lives at home with his parents while 185 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: working part time and trying to write. Then in twenty ten, 186 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 2: when he's twenty six, the doorbell rings one morning and 187 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 2: something life changing occurs. 188 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 3: In twenty ten, I had gone to a very bitter 189 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 3: breakup with the first woman that I ever loved, who 190 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 3: became my fiancee short period of time, and during this 191 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 3: time we were still in touch and maybe trying to 192 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 3: work things out, and it was very difficult for me emotionally. 193 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 3: And during the summer of twenty ten, I was at 194 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 3: home getting ready to leave for a shift and work 195 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 3: at the library and the doorbell rang. So I answered 196 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 3: the door and there was a woman standing there. And 197 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 3: the first thing that I noticed was there was just 198 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 3: something unexplained belief familiar about her. I wasn't sure whether 199 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 3: it was the way that she looked, but there was 200 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 3: just something that I could sense was familiar. And she 201 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 3: looked about maybe ten years older than me. And she 202 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 3: asked to speak to my father by name. She said, 203 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 3: is Edward Manley Holme? Is this where he lives? And 204 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 3: I said yes, and she asked to speak with him. 205 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 3: So I remember my mother was not home, though my 206 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 3: father was, so I got him and he came to 207 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 3: the door and closed the door and stepped out onto 208 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 3: the front lawn of our house and spoke to this 209 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 3: woman for one must have been forty five minutes. And 210 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 3: I stood there at the window watching them, because this 211 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 3: was a very strange experience. We didn't just get visitors 212 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 3: out of the blue like this. I remember they were 213 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 3: standing close, but not too close together. I could see 214 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 3: a lot of hand gesturing on my father part, almost 215 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 3: like he was trying to wrap the conversation up. And 216 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 3: I do remember that while the conversation didn't get heated, 217 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 3: I still could see the look on this woman's face 218 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 3: going from a look of pain to exasperation to nodding 219 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 3: her head as if she was trying to understand something. 220 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 2: Were you just watching with that sense that something important 221 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 2: is going on and I don't know what it is. 222 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 3: I was watching with curiosity because I could put a 223 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 3: couple of things together. One was this was very out 224 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 3: of the ordinary. And number two, there was a period 225 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 3: of my father's life between his first marriage and the 226 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 3: day that he met my mom that he never talked about. 227 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 3: And I liked to call that period of time the 228 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 3: dark agents, and I would ask him, as a teenager 229 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 3: and as a young adult, Hey, what was your life 230 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 3: like during that time? Did you have girlfriends? Did you 231 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 3: make a lot of mistakes? Did you drink? Did you smoke? 232 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 3: My father was the most perfect person you could imagine. 233 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 3: He didn't drink or smoke or indulge in any vices. 234 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 3: He never even used a crussword as long as I 235 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 3: could remember, at least not the four letter variety. And 236 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 3: so I was putting this together in my head, wondering 237 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 3: could this woman somehow be connected to the dark ages 238 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 3: of his life? And it was just a nascent thought 239 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 3: in my head at the time, but I was thinking it. 240 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,479 Speaker 2: So then your father comes back inside, and what happens. 241 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,359 Speaker 3: And he acts completely normal. He goes to the refrigerator, 242 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 3: gets a drink from his gatorade bottle, just like he 243 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 3: was coming in from getting the mail or something. He 244 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 3: was totally trying to downplay it. I asked him, Hey, Dad, 245 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 3: who was that at the door? And he said it 246 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 3: was a family friend, something to that effect, or he 247 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 3: had done some work for her mother years ago, and 248 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 3: this woman just wanted to catch up with him and 249 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 3: tell him about how her mother was doing. And I 250 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 3: started to poke and prod him a little bit. I said, hey, Dad, 251 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 3: like kind of in jest, are you having an affair 252 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 3: with this woman or what's going on? And he refused 253 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 3: to budge. He just brushed it under the rug, said, hey, 254 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 3: aren't you late for work? We can discuss this later. 255 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 3: And for that moment, that was the end of it. 256 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 2: And how long did that moment last? 257 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 3: For a while, I brushed it under the rug for 258 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 3: a few weeks, But it was always nagging at me 259 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 3: in the back of my head because I saw no 260 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 3: reason for my father to be a vase about it. 261 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 3: It wasn't beyond the pale for him to help families 262 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 3: in need or to be concerned about people he had 263 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 3: once lived in Hollywood at different neighborhoods in Los Angeles 264 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 3: over the years, so I wasn't out of the question, 265 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 3: and I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, 266 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 3: but it did gnaw at me until a few weeks 267 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 3: later I discovered a voicemail on his cell phone. He 268 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 3: loved to leave his iPhone three G out in plain 269 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 3: view all over the house, and I saw that there 270 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 3: was a voicemail and it was from a caller with 271 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: just initials saved as the name. So I thought that 272 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 3: was strange, and I played the voicemail and it was 273 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 3: from this woman. I recognized her voice, and as I 274 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 3: remember it, the woman whose name was Maria. She was 275 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 3: asking my dad when or if they meet, and that 276 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 3: was when I knew that my father was her father 277 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 3: because she used the word dad, So I had no 278 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 3: choice but to confirm my father at that point. 279 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 2: Was that shocking to you or was that something that 280 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 2: was in the list of possibilities. I mean, you know, 281 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 2: you thought, maybe sort of half kidding, but you know 282 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 2: that maybe he was having an affair. Did it ever 283 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 2: occur to you in a conscious way that maybe this 284 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 2: was actually his daughter? 285 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 3: Until that moment, it definitely occurred to me. So I 286 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 3: wasn't wholly shocked. I was just partly shocked because that 287 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 3: was one of the scenarios that I had run through 288 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 3: in my head, since there was that period of time 289 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 3: that he never spoke about. And this woman her age, 290 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 3: the vaguely familiar facial features she had, and the circumstances 291 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 3: surrounding her coming to the door, and for her discretion 292 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,959 Speaker 3: in that moment coming to the door, I'll always be grateful. 293 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 3: She was probably going through her own shock and discomfort 294 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 3: in confronting her biological father for the very first time 295 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 3: in her life, but she was still cognizant of the 296 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 3: fact that here's another innocent party to me, And so 297 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 3: I'll always be grateful for that, that discretion that she showed. 298 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 3: But I certainly felt shocked, but not completely shocked. 299 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 2: And also, you know, when you say your father would 300 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 2: leave his phone, you know sort of you know, out 301 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 2: in full view all the time, which of course is 302 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 2: what people do when they don't have anything to hide. 303 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: Had you ever listened to a voicemail on his phone before, 304 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 2: or was this a moment where you were kind of 305 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,239 Speaker 2: starting to be in sluice mode, which is why you thought, oh, 306 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: I'm going to actually listen to this. 307 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 3: Both listened to many voicemails on his phone before, primarily 308 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 3: for the purpose of helping him with technological issues. It's 309 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 3: just how it is. An elderly person and a new 310 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 3: piece of technology. I was the tech guru in the house, 311 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 3: helping him set up the phone listen to voicemails for 312 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 3: him if he couldn't hear them correctly. So I guess 313 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 3: the distinction is I'd usually listened to voicemails while he 314 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 3: was present and had his direction. This time was in 315 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 3: sleuth mode and stealth mode, completely out of his presence. 316 00:20:42,280 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. When Darren first confronts his dad 317 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 2: with the knowledge he now possesses, his dad downplays it 318 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: and denies it, but since Darren has actual evidence of 319 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 2: the truth, his father begins to admit it, saying, Okay, 320 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 2: Maria may or may not be my daughter. 321 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 3: But the one thing above all is he said, you 322 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 3: can't tell your mother. And the reason he gave her 323 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 3: that was growing up, my mother had always been fearful 324 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 3: of health problems concerning herself. Many of her relatives had 325 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 3: died of cancer, and so she was a bit of 326 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 3: a hypochondriac, and he said, if you tell your mother, 327 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 3: who knows what will happen to her. The shock of 328 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 3: this will affect her. Help if the it have repercussions 329 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 3: that we don't know about. So you need to keep 330 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 3: this a secret. And I started to press him more 331 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 3: over the next couple of weeks. And as I pressed 332 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 3: him more, and as I went into stealth mode and 333 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 3: sleuth mode a little bit more too, I realized that 334 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 3: he had been emailing with Maria. And again I looked 335 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 3: at some of those emails, and I discovered that not 336 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 3: only was Maria his daughter, but she had two sisters 337 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 3: who were also my father's. He had had these three 338 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 3: girls spaced five years apart, from roughly nineteen sixty five 339 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 3: to nineteen seventy five, with a Mexican immigrant living in 340 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 3: Los Angeles. And once I found out those details, I 341 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 3: started to feel angry with my dad and I told him, 342 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 3: you need to tell Mom, You need to tell Donna 343 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 3: and Karen, your other children. You need to come clean 344 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 3: about this. Too big of a secret to keep it in, 345 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 3: not only for me, but for you. This must be 346 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 3: weighing on you must have been for years so it 347 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 3: started to get a little more heated at that point, 348 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 3: and my father started to get a little bit more 349 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 3: desperate in his pleas to keep the secret. 350 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 2: It's so interesting that his initial in the moment response 351 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 2: for the reason not to tell your mother was so effective. 352 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 2: I mean, what could be more effective than saying, you know, 353 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: this could kill her, you know, some version of it, 354 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 2: And that was something that was already embedded into your 355 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 2: family system in some way, this idea that you know 356 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: that she was a bit of a hypochondriac, or that 357 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 2: maybe her health might be a little bit fragile, or 358 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 2: that certainly she felt that her health might be a 359 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 2: little bit fragile. So that was kind of inspired of him. 360 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,959 Speaker 2: But then what developed from there in terms of you know, 361 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 2: as you say, his desperation. 362 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 3: Growing, it manifested itself pretty much in the same way 363 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 3: as that initial overture to not tell my mom because 364 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 3: of her health. And the only word that I can 365 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 3: think of is manipulatives, because during this time in my life, 366 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 3: I was working that part time job, was failing out 367 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 3: of school, and really had no direction in my life, 368 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 3: especially financially, and during this period I was very reckless 369 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 3: with my own money and my own decisions. There were 370 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 3: many times at night when I would come home drunk 371 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: from a party, or a credit card statement would come 372 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 3: to the house and it was for a shocking amount 373 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 3: of money. And it was to my father that I 374 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 3: usually went to confide in for these things, because I 375 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 3: felt closer to him as a child then even into 376 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 3: young adulthood, and they're developed this strange and really messed 377 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 3: up quid pro quo arrangement where it was unspoken, but 378 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 3: he would say, if you keep my secrets, I'll keep yours. 379 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 3: I'll keep helping you to pay for these debts of yours. 380 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 3: I will keep supporting your dreams even though you're not 381 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 3: providing evidence that you're actually making progress. I will not 382 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 3: tell your mom, who's asleep a few rooms away you 383 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 3: know that you came home drunk again, or that you 384 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 3: got into trouble or something. And that's how it manifested 385 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 3: itself once he realized that I had backed him into 386 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 3: a corner. 387 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 2: Was there anyone in your life that you did share 388 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 2: this with at that time? 389 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 3: I had a good friend that I shared it with 390 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 3: in strict content dentiality, and I eventually did share it 391 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 3: with the woman that became my wife, but that wasn't 392 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 3: until later on. But at this time there was just 393 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 3: one friend that I confided in about it, and the 394 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 3: advice was generally to come clean, to unburden myself of 395 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 3: it before it got too entrenched and you know, became 396 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 3: too much of a liability for me. 397 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 2: The language around secrets is one of heaviness. We talk 398 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 2: about the burdens we carry, the carrying, the weight on 399 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: our hearts, the weight on our shoulders. And Darren is 400 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 2: simultaneously reeling from the burden of a secret having been 401 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 2: kept from him, while at the same time he's being 402 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 2: asked to carry that secret, which he does for over 403 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 2: a decade between the time Maria first rings the doorbell 404 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 2: and his father's death. 405 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 3: Once the shock of the secret that had been kept 406 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,479 Speaker 3: from me started to wear off, I became angry at 407 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,239 Speaker 3: my father for putting me in this untenable situation. It 408 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 3: was very difficult because I felt a sense of loyalty 409 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 3: to my mom, I felt a sense of loyalty to 410 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 3: my other half siblings. But a funny thing happened is 411 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 3: that I realized that my father's secrets. Then this revelation 412 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 3: put him in a whole new category for me, a 413 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 3: completely different light, and that lie was He's not perfect. 414 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 3: He's made mistakes. Not only has he made mistakes, he's 415 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 3: made really big mistakes. He's had children that he entirely 416 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 3: walked away from to pursue a new life with my mom, 417 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 3: and then he had me, who he gave everything to. 418 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 3: That's a big mistake and it must have really weighed 419 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 3: on him for so many years. So armed with that knowledge, 420 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 3: my anger morphed into a sense of relief, and it 421 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 3: was a sense of relief saying, hey, you know, you're 422 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 3: not perfect. And I started to notice patterns and commonalities 423 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 3: between me and my dad. It put things into perspective. 424 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 3: For instance, unfortunately there's no way around it. I had 425 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 3: cheated on romantic partners, and some times that cheating had 426 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 3: been successful in the sense that I wasn't caught, and 427 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 3: other times it came dangerously close to getting caught. And 428 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 3: I realized that I loved the secret part of that. 429 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 3: I loved the control that it gave me. Same thing 430 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 3: with the money, spending money on lavish things and dinner 431 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 3: and trips that I had no business spending money on. 432 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 3: It wasn't really the end product that I was after. 433 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 3: It was the knowledge that I could go to a 434 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 3: store of my own will and secretly buy something and 435 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 3: then maybe even secretly sell it on Craigslist to make 436 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 3: up the difference later on, while nobody else around me 437 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 3: knew what was going on. So here's my father with 438 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 3: huge mistakes and me with small mistakes that are gradually 439 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 3: adding up to a pattern of much bigger mistakes. And 440 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 3: this brought us closer. It actually made me bond with 441 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 3: my father, and it made me not only keep his 442 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 3: secret for those eleven years, it made me seek out 443 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 3: his counsel and get closer to him in a way 444 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 3: that I never would have if Maria had never come 445 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 3: to our door. 446 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 2: So in seeking his counsel, you were, at that point 447 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: than sharing with him the ways in which you now 448 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 2: realized were like him, or at least were enacting something 449 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 2: that was like him. How was his counsel. 450 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 3: It was varied in quality. The biggest takeaway that I 451 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 3: got from the things he said to me and what 452 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 3: I observed, were that he had this uncanny, strange ability 453 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 3: to compartmentalize his life, these different eras of his life. 454 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 3: For instance, until Maria came to our door, I very 455 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 3: rarely saw anything perturb him emotionally. He was very placid, 456 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 3: very stoic, and I always tried to emulate that. And 457 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 3: when I would cheat on a partner and that blow 458 00:30:54,640 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 3: up would happen and I was in the midst of 459 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 3: fighting with my partner and the shame that comes with 460 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 3: getting caught and the uncertainty of what's going to happen next, 461 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 3: he would always tell me, you just have to keep 462 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 3: your head down. This will path, this will go away. 463 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 3: Time will heal this. And same for my financial mistakes. 464 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 3: He always counseled me, of course, stop spending money, stop 465 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 3: relying on external things to validate yourself. He gave me 466 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 3: great advice in that regard. But he always had this 467 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 3: ability to block out his mistakes from the path and 468 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 3: just keep trudging forward. And that's something that, of course 469 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 3: I tried to do, but it's easier said than done, 470 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 3: and I found that I did not have the stomach 471 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 3: for that. I couldn't just block out my mistakes and 472 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 3: treat them like they'd never happened. 473 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 2: When you and he would talk about these things, would 474 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 2: he so speak with you about his feelings about his 475 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 2: mistakes or was it more like he was in a 476 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,479 Speaker 2: role of counseling you, and you both shared this knowledge 477 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 2: of what some of those mistakes of his had. 478 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 3: Been mostly counseling, but he did open up. At first, 479 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 3: he would say it's too much to get into, or 480 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 3: it's too big of a story to talk about, and 481 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 3: he would artfully divert the story back or the conversation 482 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 3: back to a time in life that he was more 483 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 3: comfortable talking about, like World War two or sometime when 484 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 3: I was a child. But then gradually he did start 485 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 3: to open up about the mistakes that he had made 486 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 3: with Maria and her siblings, and regrets that he had 487 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 3: about not being there for them, and most of all, 488 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 3: as I continued to kind of sleuth and glance at 489 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 3: some of these emails that he would exchange on a 490 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 3: weekly basis with Maria, his regret and his emotion really 491 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 3: came out directly to her. In those email I could 492 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 3: tell how much he regretted having left them, and I 493 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 3: could also sense that a certain burden had been lifted 494 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 3: off of him, although not entirely because he couldn't come 495 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 3: clean to the rest of his family. 496 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 2: Was this a correspondence only with Maria or with her 497 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 2: two sisters as well. 498 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,959 Speaker 3: He attempted to speak with her two sisters, but it 499 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 3: was primarily through Maria, because her two sisters felt more 500 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 3: of the brunt of his abandonment, because they were older 501 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 3: and I believe they remembered him, whereas Maria didn't really 502 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 3: have much of a memory of it, and so they 503 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 3: didn't really approve of her talking to him. And they 504 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 3: didn't really speak with my father very much at all. 505 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 3: And that goes for both before and after his death 506 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 3: in speaking with the rest of our family. 507 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 2: So is your sense of that that just the wounds 508 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 2: were just too a bridge too far in terms of 509 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 2: being able to kind of have a relationship, very. 510 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 3: Much so, although to her credit, Maria seemed to very 511 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,319 Speaker 3: much want a relationship, both by seeking him out and 512 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 3: by communicating with him so often by phone and email 513 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 3: and meeting up in person secretively, of course, but she 514 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 3: very much did want a relationship, and I could sense 515 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 3: the emotion was there on her side too. 516 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 2: And how about you in terms of, you know, having 517 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 2: been raised an only child, and you know you had 518 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 2: these very distant, much much older half siblings, but you know, 519 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: really really experiencing your life as an only child, there's 520 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 2: suddenly these half sisters who are a little bit closer 521 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 2: in age to you, who had been this total secret. 522 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 2: Was there any longing on your part for a relationship 523 00:34:59,080 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 2: with them or with. 524 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 3: There? Was? There was curiosity there. But while my father 525 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 3: was alive and my mother and other half siblings didn't 526 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 3: know about her, I was offered opportunities to meet with 527 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 3: her by my father. He said, you should get to 528 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 3: know Maria. You should you should call her, you should 529 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 3: go have lunch with her, things like that. But I 530 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 3: never felt it was my place. I wanted to, but 531 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 3: I felt like an intruder into this dynamic between my 532 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 3: dad and her, and into her life as well, in 533 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 3: a way, because it felt like the whole thing had 534 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 3: just been not forced on us, but just dropped into 535 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 3: my lap. 536 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 2: I would imagine too, that it would have felt like 537 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 2: a betrayal of your mother, given that you were already 538 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 2: having to keep this a secret from. 539 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 3: Your mother, very much so, and also because this big 540 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 3: secret amplified what I discovered in light of this secret 541 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 3: were smaller secrets that my father had always kept from 542 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 3: my mother. That manipulative nature, which sounds like a strong 543 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 3: word and I hate using it, but it's really the 544 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 3: only word I can think of. It had always been there. 545 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 3: My mother would tell me that when my father and 546 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 3: her first married, my father, prior to the marriage had 547 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 3: represented that his financial situation was different from what it 548 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 3: actually was, and she found out once they got married 549 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,240 Speaker 3: that he actually had less money than she had planned 550 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 3: to have. After getting married, I noticed that my father 551 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 3: would purchase things without my mom's knowledge and tell me 552 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 3: to not tell her about it because if she found 553 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 3: out about it, she would just end up taking it 554 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 3: back to the store. And then there were the ever 555 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 3: present warnings about her health, which looking back on it, 556 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 3: were legitimate but very overblown. So I started to discover 557 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 3: this pattern of secret keeping them my dad had, and 558 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 3: that made me feel like I would be even more 559 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 3: disloyal to my mom by communicating with Maria and her 560 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 3: not knowing about it. 561 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 2: But Darren isn't the only one who's been in the dark. 562 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 2: His much older half siblings know nothing about this either. 563 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 2: Maria and her sisters are every bit as much siblings 564 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 2: of them as they are of Darren, and so Darren 565 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 2: is put in the uncomfortable position during those years of 566 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 2: not only carrying his father's secrets, but also being in 567 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 2: sort of cahoots with him, engaged in a dizzying bargain. 568 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 2: But there's a silver lining to be found here too. 569 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 2: The truth of his father's secret life is offering an 570 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 2: explanation to Darren for some of his own behaviors, parts 571 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 2: of himself that he hadn't previously understood. It brings to 572 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 2: mind what Carl Jung famously wrote about secrecy. Until we 573 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 2: make the unconscious conscious, it will direct our lives, and 574 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 2: we will call it fate. 575 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 3: And perhaps the biggest secret of all, and the thing 576 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 3: that I couldn't understand until all of this started to unfold, 577 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 3: was that publicly I was, as many people are, I 578 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 3: was a very different person than I was privately, And 579 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,760 Speaker 3: part of that stemmed from the fact that my father 580 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 3: had this perfect image and this old fashioned image of 581 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 3: being upstanding and kind of a community leader and always 582 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 3: looking out for people. And I'm really trying to emulate 583 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 3: that so much from young adulthood into being an adult 584 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 3: in my twenties and early thirties. So for all anybody knew, 585 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 3: outside of my own foibles and problems, I really had 586 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 3: it together. I was doing well. I looked like I 587 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 3: was doing well. I spoke as eloquently as I could 588 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 3: in the light of all these things that were happening 589 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 3: to me. And so when Maria came and I discovered 590 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 3: my dad's secret, it really let me understand that trauma 591 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 3: can be passed down through generations in a very subtle, 592 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 3: strange way, almost without you knowing about it. And now 593 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 3: I had this barometer or this compass that was showing me, 594 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 3: here's why you are the way you are, and here's 595 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 3: why you need to find a middle ground between your 596 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 3: public image and your private one, or just completely own 597 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 3: your private image, and maybe a lot of your problems 598 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,280 Speaker 3: will go away. Because what I've discovered and this holds 599 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 3: true and my father, is that having children with a 600 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 3: woman out of wedlock is not a problem. Leaving them 601 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 3: was certainly a problem. If my father was a playboy, 602 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 3: or he had predilections to search out certain things, or 603 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,760 Speaker 3: he liked he had a large sex drive, nobody vaulted 604 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 3: him for that. It was that he and I held 605 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 3: themselves out to be something that they weren't, and then 606 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 3: they betrayed that trust with the outside world because inside 607 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 3: they were harboring all these secrets and they were completely different. 608 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 3: So I learned a lot about how unburdened you can 609 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 3: get just by owning who you are and letting that 610 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 3: unconscious part of you take over. A little bit. 611 00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 2: Will be back in a moment with more family secrets. 612 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,839 Speaker 2: Nearly halfway through this decade long period of carrying his 613 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 2: father's secret, in twenty fourteen, another important event transpires in 614 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 2: Darren's life. He meets Eva, the woman who is now 615 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 2: his wife. 616 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 3: I was Eva's supervisor at the library, so we were 617 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 3: not supposed to be dating under any circumstances. But we 618 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 3: fell for each other and kept that secret that we 619 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 3: were dating from our coworkers and certainly from our bosses, 620 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:56,280 Speaker 3: until I left the library in twenty fifteen to pursue 621 00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 3: writing full time. And Eva was in a lot of 622 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 3: ways my opposite too. I had this sometimes unquenchable ambition 623 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 3: to become a published writer, to make my mark on 624 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 3: the world. I still had that impulsive streak where I 625 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 3: would make decisions, primarily financial, but also just spur of 626 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 3: the moment, plans that completely contradicted the way she did things. 627 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 3: She was very practical and above all brutally honest and 628 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,280 Speaker 3: took people at face value. So I had a streak 629 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,439 Speaker 3: of sarcasm within me that had to be modified or 630 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,920 Speaker 3: extinguished a little bit of what I was talking to her, 631 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 3: because she would take me at face value, and that 632 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,839 Speaker 3: was interesting for me, but also terrifying in a way 633 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 3: because she didn't really know about my past. I hid 634 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 3: that from her. In her mind, I was this old fashioned, 635 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 3: upstanding young gentleman who grew up with older parents that 636 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 3: had a completely different vibe from the modern world, and 637 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 3: she liked that. She was a huge Island Lucy fan. 638 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 3: That was one of the things we bonded over initially. 639 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 3: So meeting her and seeing how clear she was with 640 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 3: her expectations was very scary for me. 641 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting, like just the I think you 642 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,839 Speaker 2: just used the expression like she took you a face value, right, 643 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,400 Speaker 2: I mean, it was just so perfect, like what you 644 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 2: see is what you get. At what point did you 645 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 2: make the leap of letting her in more and letting 646 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 2: her know you better. 647 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 3: Well, I do remember telling her about my father's secrets 648 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,320 Speaker 3: not that long into our relationships, so she had a 649 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 3: little bit of context for him, But for me, it 650 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 3: wasn't until two thousand and sixteen. In twenty seventeen, when 651 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 3: my writing wasn't really panning out, and she was encouraging 652 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 3: me to return to work of some kind because she 653 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 3: was making some money I wasn't, and she just wanted 654 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,360 Speaker 3: me to feel fulfilled and like I was moving forward 655 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 3: in my life. And during that period of time, my 656 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 3: credit card debt really ballooned out of a feeling of 657 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:39,279 Speaker 3: depression and sort of aimlessness and fadness. And I was 658 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 3: living at home with mom and dad, and I was 659 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 3: alone during the day again, able to keep secrets, not 660 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 3: really accountable to my partner or really even to the 661 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 3: outside world at this point. And during this period of time, 662 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 3: not only did I spend just an exorbitant amount of 663 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 3: money I don't even want to talk about, but I 664 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 3: was unfaithful to her twice, and the first time she 665 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,320 Speaker 3: forgave me. The second time it was much more serious, 666 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,359 Speaker 3: and she forgave me again, but with conditions that were 667 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 3: much harder to meet, so she started to hold me accountable. 668 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 3: And it was during this period of time when again 669 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:24,800 Speaker 3: I was confiding in my father and he was urging 670 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 3: me to try to be stomic and see the bright 671 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 3: side of things and come for me as best he could. 672 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,400 Speaker 3: It was during this period of time when I realized 673 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,719 Speaker 3: I can honor my dad and love him for all 674 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 3: of the blood and sweat he's given me, and I 675 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 3: can keep his secret. But I don't have to be 676 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,800 Speaker 3: like him. I can choose to be different from him 677 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 3: and put the exercises in to become more honest myself. 678 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 2: It's interesting that you, early in your relationship with Eva 679 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,239 Speaker 2: you did share with her your dad's secrets, because it 680 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 2: sounds like she's only the second person who you unburdened 681 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 2: yourself to right so in a way, it's almost like 682 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 2: some part of you from early on recognized this is 683 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 2: something I want to do differently, even though you couldn't 684 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,399 Speaker 2: do it differently right away. 685 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,399 Speaker 3: Yes, because I mean I was tired of messing thing up, 686 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 3: although I would go on to do the same. And 687 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,400 Speaker 3: I didn't see it as a way of really letting 688 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,239 Speaker 3: her in. I saw it as a faithe way of 689 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 3: being honest with her because it did end pertain to me, 690 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 3: It pertained to my dad, and it was a way 691 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,239 Speaker 3: of letting her in without really letting her in. And 692 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,359 Speaker 3: it was a step on my part, but nonetheless not 693 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,000 Speaker 3: really anywhere near as as far as I could have 694 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:50,520 Speaker 3: taken it. 695 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,359 Speaker 2: Years pass and Darren decides to study law. In California, 696 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,840 Speaker 2: you can go to law school without a bachelor's degree. 697 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 2: It's Eva who encourages him to pursue this path, while 698 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 2: also encouraging him to continue working on his writing. After 699 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 2: about a year of law school, in the fall of 700 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, Darren experiences the two great inevitabilities of life, 701 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,960 Speaker 2: birth and death. His first child is born in September, 702 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,760 Speaker 2: and in November, his dad's health begins to rapidly decline. 703 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,400 Speaker 3: So I was adjusting to being a dad for the 704 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,759 Speaker 3: first time myself, and trying to suppore my wife and 705 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,880 Speaker 3: you know, just learning how to change diapers and everything, 706 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:44,439 Speaker 3: and my dad started to get confused about where he 707 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,399 Speaker 3: was and what was going on. I took him into 708 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 3: the hospital for heart failure, and he came out a 709 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:55,040 Speaker 3: week later and took his medicine for two days, and 710 00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 3: then he said, Darren, I want to die. And IM 711 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:06,160 Speaker 3: plus it in that was he wanted to leave money 712 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:12,440 Speaker 3: for each of these hidden siblings that my mother and 713 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 3: half siblings still didn't know about. He wanted to leave 714 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,600 Speaker 3: money from Maria and her sisters. So I immediately started 715 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 3: to think, you know, how am I going to do this? 716 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:25,000 Speaker 3: There's no way. So as he started to slip further 717 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,120 Speaker 3: away in Hotae care over the course of about two days, 718 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 3: I saw voicemails on his phone and emails from Maria 719 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,440 Speaker 3: asking what's going on, Dad, I haven't heard from you 720 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,839 Speaker 3: in a little bit of is everything okay? And how 721 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,040 Speaker 3: old is he? At this point he was ninety four, 722 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 3: And so I decided, just before we gave my dad 723 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,760 Speaker 3: medicine that may make it impossible for him to speak again. 724 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 3: I called Maria myself and I said, you know, this 725 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,040 Speaker 3: is Darren. Dad is going to die today or tomorrow. 726 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,919 Speaker 3: And she broke down crying on the phone. She said, 727 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,880 Speaker 3: I had a feeling, but I wasn't sure, you know. 728 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:11,719 Speaker 3: Thank you for letting me know. At that point, I 729 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,399 Speaker 3: called Donna and Karen individually and I told them, Hey, 730 00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,839 Speaker 3: I need to tell you something. Dad had not only 731 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 3: one or two, but he had three children that he 732 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,520 Speaker 3: never told you about. And then, worst of all, I 733 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 3: had to tell my mom face to face, and she 734 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:36,560 Speaker 3: was shocked because she was dealing with the death of 735 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:41,520 Speaker 3: her husband and the birth of this completely new understanding 736 00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:46,440 Speaker 3: about him. And I remember it was almost immediately before 737 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,960 Speaker 3: my father slipped away into sleep and never woke up 738 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 3: that I remember telling him nothing in particular, but I 739 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,720 Speaker 3: just said, Dad, it's okay. I took care of things, 740 00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,920 Speaker 3: and he looked at me like he understood. And besides 741 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,959 Speaker 3: promising him that I would graduate from law school, which 742 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,640 Speaker 3: thankfully I ended up doing, that was the last thing 743 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 3: I ever said to him that he heard was it's okay, Dad, 744 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,439 Speaker 3: you can go now the burden is gone. My half 745 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,640 Speaker 3: siblings were shocked. They hadn't seen my father from a 746 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:25,759 Speaker 3: different perspective growing up than I did, obviously, because, unbeknownst 747 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,440 Speaker 3: to me, but known to them, my father's first marriage 748 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,360 Speaker 3: had ended because he cheated on his first wife, Bernice, 749 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,719 Speaker 3: with the woman who would eventually end up becoming a 750 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:42,759 Speaker 3: second and his third wife. They married, got divorced, and 751 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:49,000 Speaker 3: then married again, and even during the course of this 752 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,880 Speaker 3: second and third marriage, there were other affairs than my 753 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,920 Speaker 3: father had that my half siblings were privy to, because 754 00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,520 Speaker 3: he would show up with these different women at family 755 00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:06,320 Speaker 3: parties or big events. But they never told me about 756 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:11,080 Speaker 3: this until Dad died, and until I told them that 757 00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:15,160 Speaker 3: he had been hiding this huge secret from them their 758 00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,920 Speaker 3: whole life. So they were shocked, but not completely shocked. 759 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,439 Speaker 3: I was then shocked in turn to find out that 760 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,600 Speaker 3: he had told me different reasons for the first divorce. 761 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,640 Speaker 3: He had justified it and made it sound like it 762 00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:37,239 Speaker 3: really wasn't his fault. But my half sister, Donna in particular, 763 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:42,440 Speaker 3: then went into sleuth mode because she's a genealogist and 764 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,280 Speaker 3: loves searching family trees, and so she started to research 765 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 3: Maria's family tree. She reached out to Maria and to 766 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:57,359 Speaker 3: her two sisters and trying to establish a relationship so 767 00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,959 Speaker 3: that we could all be together. 768 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:01,040 Speaker 2: And your mom. 769 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,960 Speaker 3: My mom just kept saying, I can't believe that he 770 00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:11,759 Speaker 3: would keep this from me. And the crazy thing that 771 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,560 Speaker 3: I learned that she told me directly was before she 772 00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:20,480 Speaker 3: married my dad, she had been approached by a woman 773 00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,640 Speaker 3: at the cathedral where she and my dad had met, 774 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,280 Speaker 3: telling him that she didn't really know my dad yet 775 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,600 Speaker 3: and that there were other children out there. And to 776 00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,919 Speaker 3: this day, I don't know whether that was Maria's Bob 777 00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,200 Speaker 3: or someone else that he had had a relationship with, 778 00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,680 Speaker 3: but it speaks to my mom's state of mind and 779 00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,800 Speaker 3: her loyalty that she even went through with the marriage 780 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:51,640 Speaker 3: after that, and also my dad's ability to talk his 781 00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,919 Speaker 3: way out of that, because she did confront him and 782 00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:59,279 Speaker 3: he managed to downplay it as he often did. 783 00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,480 Speaker 2: In these few years since his father's death. Darren and 784 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,359 Speaker 2: Eva become the parents of two a girl and then 785 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,920 Speaker 2: a boy. They are determined to get their partnership right, 786 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,200 Speaker 2: not to fall into the traps or mistakes of the past, 787 00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:22,440 Speaker 2: and so they develop a strategy something they call honesty exercises, 788 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:27,480 Speaker 2: a beautiful, soulful way to learn from history rather than 789 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,200 Speaker 2: repeat it. 790 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:35,239 Speaker 3: It's something that was definitely born out of my relationship 791 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:40,480 Speaker 3: with her that period of time after I cheated on 792 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,399 Speaker 3: her in twenty seventeen. There was a period of time 793 00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,640 Speaker 3: of about a year where I was just doing whatever 794 00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,799 Speaker 3: I could to get back in her good graces, and 795 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,680 Speaker 3: it ended with a marriage proposal about a year after 796 00:53:54,719 --> 00:54:00,399 Speaker 3: we had started this odyssey. And what I've just did 797 00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:07,480 Speaker 3: is that the sting of unfaithfulness might go away or 798 00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:12,800 Speaker 3: ebb a little bit, but it actually never goes away completely. 799 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,759 Speaker 3: And so there's been times during our marriage where things 800 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,400 Speaker 3: that I'll say it would do might give rise to 801 00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:27,160 Speaker 3: doubt on her part, even that I haven't really done 802 00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,399 Speaker 3: anything wrong. But it's that to me then to put 803 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,760 Speaker 3: her at ease. And I think that I've gotten defensive 804 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:38,160 Speaker 3: about that, but I also think that it really is 805 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:43,879 Speaker 3: on me to exercise my honesty in the best way 806 00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,759 Speaker 3: that I can to put her at ease in light 807 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:51,280 Speaker 3: of what happened between us, and it doesn't just extend 808 00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:56,520 Speaker 3: to her. I think exercising your honesty muscle, it's just 809 00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:00,319 Speaker 3: a daily thing because even now, in ways big and 810 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,440 Speaker 3: small that urge to keep things to myself, whether it's 811 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:08,080 Speaker 3: out of shame for thinking maybe I did something wrong 812 00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 3: or maybe I don't know how to do something, so 813 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,319 Speaker 3: let me not ask for help. That's strong even to 814 00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:18,040 Speaker 3: this day. So it takes quite a bit of internal 815 00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:22,880 Speaker 3: dialogue every day for me to just remember where I 816 00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:26,960 Speaker 3: came from, how far I've come, and how I can 817 00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,800 Speaker 3: keep going down this path just by trying my best 818 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,280 Speaker 3: to be honest in the smallest of ways. 819 00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,879 Speaker 2: Family Secret is a production of iHeartRadio. Molly's A Core 820 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,160 Speaker 2: is the story editor and Dylan Fagan is the executive producer. 821 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,280 Speaker 2: If you have a family Secret you'd like to share, 822 00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:08,960 Speaker 2: please leave us a voicemail and your story could appear 823 00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,239 Speaker 2: on an upcoming episode. Our number is one eight eight 824 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:16,239 Speaker 2: eight Secret Zero. That's the number zero. You can also 825 00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:20,960 Speaker 2: find me on Instagram at Danny Ryder, and if you'd 826 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,360 Speaker 2: like to know more about the story that inspired this podcast, 827 00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:25,520 Speaker 2: check out my memoir Inheritance. 828 00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,920 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 829 00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:00,920 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.