1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newts World. It has been almost 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: fifty years since President Richard Milhouse Nixon resigned from the presidency. 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: Nixon normalized US relations with China, and by so doing, 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: he encircled the Soviets and made certain they knew they 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: were on the losing side of the Cold War. Nixon 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: signed the first major strategic arms limitation treaty with the Soviets, 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: which involved real cuts done out of mutual respect and fear. 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: Nixon made peace possible in them at least, and saved 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: the children of Israel by assuring that Israel would not 10 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: be defeated in the om Kipper War. Nixon ended the 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: war in Vietnam and brought home the prisoners. Nixon said 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: he would leave us a generation of peace, and he did. 13 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: My guest today was a speech writer and friend of 14 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: President Nixon and says he misses him every day, and 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: he's joining me to discuss his new book, The Peacemaker. Nixon, 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: the man President, and my friend. I'm really pleased to 17 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: welcome my guest, Ben Stein. He is a writer, actor, economist, 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: and lawyer. He writes the Dreams column for Newsmacks magazine. 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: Ben Stein's Diary for the American spectator and is the 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: host of the World according to ben Stein Podcast. His 21 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: comedic role as the economics teacher in the film Ferris 22 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: Buehler's Day Off has been ranked as one of the 23 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: fifty most famous scenes in movie history. He was the 24 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: co host of the Emmy Award winning win ben Stein's Money. 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: He's also the New York Times best selling author or 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: co author of over thirty books. Ben Welcome, and thank 27 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: you for joining me on Newtsworld. 28 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: You're very kind, Thank you very much. 29 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: When did you first hear about Richard Nixon and who 30 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: did he first sort of enter your life? 31 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: I would say when I was about seven years old, 32 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: and I lived in Silver Spring, Maryland, right outside Washington, 33 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: d C. We lived there because even though my father 34 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 2: had quite a good job, extremely good job, Jews were 35 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: not allowed to live in the nicest neighborhoods in Washington, 36 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: like Spring Valley or Wesley Heights. And some nice developers 37 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: had taken some raw land out in Maryland and built 38 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: them in developments that were by no means fancy, but 39 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 2: perfectly adequate. And we lived there, and we were perfectly 40 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: happy living there. And I might add, every single day 41 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 2: and I woke up and thought, holy smoke, Benji, you 42 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: are in America. It was a great, great day, Benji, 43 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: You're in America. You're not in Germany, or not in Poland, 44 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: or not in Russia. You are in America. And it's 45 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,399 Speaker 2: all gravy after that. 46 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: And I noticed, also because it was described brilliantly that 47 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: you had a brand new Magnavox TV. I remember those 48 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: those really big wooden cabinets. 49 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 2: Yes, blond wood. 50 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: But you ended up watching the House on American Activities 51 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: Committee on television at a young age. 52 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes yes, with my mother and 53 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: father and my mother. I'm positive that you must have 54 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: met her at some function in Washington. Mildred's sign. She 55 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: was an extremely militant anti communist. She is probably one 56 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: of the few Jews in Montgomery County who was a 57 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 2: fan of Joe McCarthy. And she brought me up on 58 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 2: that that anti communism was mother's milk to me, Sir, 59 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: and I happened to live next door to our family, 60 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: who were well Communists, and they had a different view 61 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 2: of the world from mine, but they were still very 62 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: good neighbors. Their child turned out to be Carl Bernstein, 63 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: a quite famous so called journalist, and I loved him 64 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: a lot, loved his parents a lot. But you and 65 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 2: I were on different sides of the fence, but we 66 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: were still good friends. And that's the way America was 67 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: in those days. You could be wildly on the other 68 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: side of the fence from the other guy or gal, 69 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: and you can still be friends. That's not true anymore. 70 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: This is kind of amazing. I did not know this story. 71 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: But you end up meeting Richard Nixon when he is 72 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: vice presidential candidate. How old are you at that point? 73 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: Yes, I was probably seven years old, and he was 74 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 2: campaigning a genuine whistle stop tour. I don't think they 75 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: have whistle stop tours anymore, but they used to have 76 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 2: whistle stop tors. My mother took me up to Silver Spring, 77 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: Maryland b and O Railroad station and I heard mister 78 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 2: Nixon give a speech. I thought he did a great job. 79 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: My neighbors, all kind of left wingers, thought it was terrible. 80 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 2: They couldn't get over the fact that I had gone there, 81 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 2: that my mother had lifted me up on her shoulders 82 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 2: to see and hear mister Nixon. But my parents loved him. 83 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: They started out loving him. They never stopped loving him. 84 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: My parents had been Republicans since basically since there was 85 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 2: a Republican party. That was very, very blessed to have 86 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 2: parents who are parents and other ancestors who were born 87 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 2: in the United States of America, and they were all Republican, 88 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: mostly because Republicans were against alcohol, and our family has 89 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 2: always been against alcohol. So there you are. 90 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: That's wild. So we leaped forward. And after eight years 91 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: as vice president, Nixon is running for president and you 92 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:13,119 Speaker 1: meet him again. 93 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: Yes, I met him. He actually met him several times, 94 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 2: but this time I met him when he was I 95 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: think I met him several times in that campaign, but 96 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: one of them was at Montgomery Blair High School in 97 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 2: Silver Spring and he was giving another whistle stop to her, 98 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,239 Speaker 2: and I thought he gave a great, wonderful speech. And 99 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: I still remember, although I think I didn't remember time 100 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 2: to incod in my book, mister Nixon gave us such 101 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 2: a good speech that people were demonstrating outside against him. 102 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 2: But that was just a sign what a good speech 103 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 2: he gave. And I remember thinking myself, Wow, I wish 104 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,239 Speaker 2: I were old enough to vote for him, but I wasn't, 105 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 2: and I didn't vote for him, but I liked him 106 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 2: well enough to vote for him when I was younger 107 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: than ten years old. I just loved him. He just 108 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 2: seemed like my kind of guy. He loved America, he 109 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 2: loved the Republican Party, and the Republican Party, as far 110 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 2: as I'm concerned, is the main instrument of loving democracy 111 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 2: and loving law in the United States of America. And 112 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 2: I don't regret one second of loving Nixon. I don't 113 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 2: regret it at all. I mean not at all. And 114 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: it's even my wife, the world's finest human being. Even she, 115 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: for a time when we were at Yale, did not 116 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: love Nixon, but I always did. Well. 117 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting you point out the one he's 118 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: running for election in nineteen sixty. He's talking about something 119 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: which the modern media has mostly covered up, and that 120 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: is that the initial steps on ending segregation were being 121 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: taken by Republicans, and in fact it was Democrats who 122 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: were segregationists, and Democrats who had for a hundred years 123 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: been oppressing blacks, and that the whole story has been 124 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: turned on its head by the modern media. 125 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: Exactly right. And if I may mention this, really really 126 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: really ver boten subject. Delaware was a reliably segregation state, 127 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 2: and mister Biden was a reliable voice for segregation. He 128 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: was a reliable voice against bussing, and we just thought 129 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: he was not a nicer guy where black people were concerned, 130 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 2: and we were right about that, And of course now 131 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: he's their best friend. And I don't know how that 132 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: got also turned around. But it's interesting. The Republican Party 133 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: was founded founded to end the depression of black people 134 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: in the United States of America, and that's what has 135 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: been ever since. And somehow the media has gotten in 136 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: there and swirled everything around and gotten confused. So now 137 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: the Republicans are the oppressors of black people, which is 138 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: just nonsense. Republicans have never been the oppressors of black people. Democrats. 139 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: I don't think the Democrats are necessarily now, although to 140 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: the extent that they enable people to have feelings of 141 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: racial animals, I think there they have done extremely bad 142 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 2: things and doesn't make me love them. 143 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: You'd already gotten to meet Nixon and then he of 144 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: course loses in sixty by a very narrow margin. It 145 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: was my first campaign as a volunteer. 146 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 2: I would say a negative margin, complaied Mickerburn. 147 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: It was one of the longest nights of my life 148 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: because I had worked very hard. That's the first time 149 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: I'd really been active as a volunteer. An election night, 150 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: listening to Illinois slip away and Texas slip away. It 151 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: was just amazing. 152 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was amazing because, of course I think, and 153 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: of course it wasn't there I was watching it. It 154 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: was amazing because it was so clearly corrupt. It was 155 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: so clear that mister Kennedy, as very rich father, had 156 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: appeared on the scene with boxes full of money. It 157 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: gives the people who would make sure that the count 158 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 2: in their area came out pro Democrat. And so mister 159 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 2: Nixon lost by a very narrow margin. Had it been 160 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 2: today's world, I imagine you would have gone to litigation. 161 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: But it was not the way things were done in 162 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: those days, and mister Nixon did not want to tear 163 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: the party apart, especially when we were a fit seeing 164 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 2: a long decade turned out to him, very very long 165 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: decade of resistance to so we hat Bolshevism and the 166 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: Cold War horrors of machinations of Communism. We wanted America 167 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 2: to re united, even if it was united under a mistake. 168 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: And by the way, I don't think Kennedy was a 169 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: terrible present. Certainly not pro Communists, no doubt about that 170 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: in my mind. But mister Nixon was a real patriot. 171 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: He sacrificed his career to keep America united, and boy 172 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 2: did he do a good job. But then the Democrats 173 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: and the media undid it and turned everything to a 174 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: swirling mass of garbage and lies. And by the way, sure, 175 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 2: letter speaker, I like calling you that. It's amazing. It's 176 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 2: been fifty years roughly a little more actually, since the 177 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: Watergate breaking. I still don't understand what it is that 178 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: the Watergate burglars was supposed to have done. I still 179 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 2: don't understand what mister Nixon's crimes and misdemeanors were that 180 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 2: got him thrown out of office. I still don't understand, 181 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 2: and I was pretty darn close to it all. I 182 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: don't understand what he did wrong. 183 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: Before we get that far down the road when he 184 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: comes back having lost and then lost the governorship of California. 185 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: He only comes back in sixty eight, wins the nomination, 186 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: and was always remarkably popular with the party base. Your 187 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: dad ends up through his ties to Milton Friedman, writing 188 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: economics material for the campaign and then ends up working 189 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: with the Nixon administration. But apparently your dad actually turned 190 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: to you and asked whether or not he ought to 191 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: be actively involved in the Nixon campaign given everything else 192 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: that had gone on, and you were adamantly in favor. 193 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 2: Adamantly. I mean, I remember my father saying, well, I mean, 194 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 2: he's involved with this guy, Murray Chattner, and he does 195 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 2: not have the best reputation. And I don't know, do 196 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: I want to be involved with a guy who was 197 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 2: involved with Murray Schattner. And I said, sir, he's our guy. 198 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 2: He's our guy. I mean, you may not have all 199 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 2: perfect friends, but I don't think anybody's running against is 200 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 2: going to have all perfect prints. Bear in mind, mister speaker, 201 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 2: I loved Hubert Humphrey. He was a great, great man 202 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: and a kind of man you don't see in the 203 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 2: Democrat Party anymore. A thorough progressive in the sense that 204 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 2: he really wanted full civil rights for African Americans and 205 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 2: other people of color. But he was not anti American. 206 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 2: He did not slap America in the face. He really 207 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 2: believed in America. He was a kind of person that 208 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 2: you would be proud of. A little tiny note about 209 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: Hubert Humphrey. There very few of us, i'm sure, who 210 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: are involved in this event right now that we're doing, 211 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 2: who know that Hubert Humphrey from Minnesota was one of 212 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: the only senators who owned a home in what was 213 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 2: not a restricted neighborhood. Of restricted neighbors in Washington in 214 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 2: those days were a standard upper class neighborhood which did 215 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 2: not admit Jews, and mister Humphrey purposely chose to live 216 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: on the street in Chevy Chase. It was not a 217 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 2: particularly fancy street at all, and they chose to live 218 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 2: there because it was not segregated against Huser Blacks. No. 219 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: I think comfort in that sense lived out his beliefs. 220 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: I think he was a very sincere person. 221 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 2: He was a genuinely great man. Genuinely great man. 222 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: But in this period, you're a student of Yale, but 223 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: your dad invites you to a prayer service at the 224 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: White House, I mean, what was that like? 225 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: It was great? It was great. I mean, first of all, 226 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: I had and still have an incredibly beautiful, charming, friendly 227 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 2: wife with a winning smile, as one might say, so 228 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 2: I was very proud to be there. I had been 229 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: to a number of Christian services before, because my best 230 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 2: friend as a child was a fellow who's prominent in 231 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 2: Montgomery County politics, in David Skull, and this had been 232 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 2: to many Christian services. Didn't frighten me at all, and 233 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 2: I went to the service. I forget who I heard speak, 234 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 2: but I think it might have been his Majesty, one 235 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 2: might say, at the top of the Christian pyramid, possibly 236 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 2: Billy Graham himself. I'm not sure. I do remember that 237 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: singing was George Beverly Sha, a great pay singer of gospel. Anyway, 238 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 2: as we were leaving, mister Nixon was shaking hands with 239 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 2: his guests. The service had been held in the east 240 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: rim of the White House. One of his guests was 241 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 2: an incredibly beautiful, astoundingly beautiful woman I could tell roughly 242 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 2: my age, and that was his daughter, Julian, And she 243 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: smiled at me. She was very friendly to me. She's 244 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 2: told me that she understood from her father that I 245 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,079 Speaker 2: was a great fan of dogs. She had several dogs. 246 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 2: What I want sometime to join her and take the 247 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 2: dogs for a walk out on the back lawn of 248 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 2: the White House. Not I said, yes, you've got anything 249 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 2: you want, how high? And I just she just won 250 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 2: my heart over in that instant, and I've never except 251 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: for my wife. It's a saint, a living, breathing saint. 252 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 2: I've never met a woman that I admired more than 253 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 2: Julia Eis now. She's just brilliant, loyal, time forgiving. If 254 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 2: you had to draw a picture of the perfect Christian, 255 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: it would be Julie Nixon Eisner. 256 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: That's quite a tribute. 257 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: I love her. I love her. 258 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: You end up coming out of law school, you know, 259 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: and then you end up working in the Knicks administration. 260 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: Yes, I did well. I wound up working two places 261 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: I worked. Wound up working in the so called War 262 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: on Poverty, which was the part I was in. Was 263 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: headed by a guy named Terry Lenzner who became a 264 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: kind of controversial figure. But I also worked for a 265 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 2: man at the White House named Bob Brown, who was 266 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: in charge of monitoring progress in minority affairs, and it 267 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: was another wonderful guy, and I worked on collecting data 268 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 2: about how much progress did Nicks administration make dec education 269 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 2: and other efforts to create a better life for African Americans. 270 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 2: I'm extremely happy I had the opportunity to do that. 271 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: We learned a lot about how much progress the Nicks 272 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 2: administration had made in the desegregating schools place of work. 273 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: His progress was simply phenomenal, and nobody ever talked about 274 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 2: it to this day, You, sir, are never going to 275 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: have another person on your show. We'll talk about it 276 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 2: the way I will. 277 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: You were really inside in that sense. 278 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: I was inside. I like to think that in a 279 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: small way, I was inside their family. The first time 280 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 2: I ever met Missus Nickson enough to have a conversation 281 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 2: with her, that is to say, Julie's mother, who was 282 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: at a birthday party for Julie down at Jack and 283 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: Helen Brown's house in Palace, Verdis. It was for Julie's birthday. 284 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 2: Missus Brown said to me, man, Julie has been talking 285 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 2: so much about you, it makes me want to throw up. 286 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 2: That's a very very good sense of you, remember, by Julie. 287 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: Very good sense of you were by Missus Dixon, and 288 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: I just felt wonderful about it. But I will say that, 289 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: however much animust there was against mister Nixon at that time, 290 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 2: it's nothing compared to the animus against the Republican Party 291 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 2: and against conservatives generally in America right now. 292 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: In that sense, It really was a very, very different era. 293 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 2: Very different are the atred viciousness of the agent was 294 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 2: just off the map. I can remember when I got 295 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: out of the White House and I wanted to write 296 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: something about my experiences there. There are plenty of people, 297 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 2: lots and lots of people who wanted to publish the book. 298 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: My agent was a very fine agent. I'm sure you 299 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 2: know him too, since you to know everybody, and I 300 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: think you know everybody. His name, as Dick was and 301 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: is David Oaps. He said, everybody would like to buy 302 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: this book. I got so busy working for Bob Bartley 303 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: and I didn't have time to do it. But now 304 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: I think I would have a much harder time doing it. 305 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 2: But then there was a much freer press than there 306 00:16:58,160 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: is now. 307 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: You're working really at the heart of the White House. 308 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: You're working with all of the key players in that period. 309 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: I mean, that was really quite a tribute to you 310 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: that so many of these folks were willing to rely 311 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 1: on you. That really one of the highest about as 312 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: high level as you could get, and you end up 313 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: being brought in to be a speech writer. 314 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 2: Yes, and I was extremely extremely grateful for that opportunity 315 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 2: and I just loved it. I can't tell you how 316 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 2: much I loved working at the White House, but sure, 317 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 2: mister speaker. Bear in mind, as I mentioned before, my 318 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: father at that time was chairman of the President's Council 319 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 2: of Economic Advisors, and he worked two stories above me 320 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 2: in the Executive Office Building, and I could go up 321 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 2: and see him anytime I wanted, and I could have 322 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 2: lunch with him almost any day I wanted. And very 323 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 2: few young people get to have, well, fairly young people 324 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 2: get to have lunch with their father every day or 325 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 2: almost every day. That was an astounding, astounding gift from 326 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 2: God that I could have lunch with my father just about. 327 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 2: I mean, that's it. If very few people get to have. 328 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 1: What was the process like working with Nixon and drafting 329 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: speeches for Nixon? He himself had been a significant writer 330 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: in his own right. 331 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 2: He was a very good writer. I would get a 332 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 2: call from my boss, who was at that time Dave Gergan, 333 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: and he would say, we want speech on such and 334 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 2: such as. Usually it would have something to do with 335 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 2: economics or law, because they knew I was an economist 336 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 2: and a lawyer by training. And I would go in 337 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 2: and get briefed on what they wanted. I would probably 338 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 2: talk to someone else under mister Nixon, but your truly 339 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 2: are Dave Gergan, and they would tell me what they 340 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 2: want me to talk about it I would be happy 341 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 2: to do it. I rarely rarely required much in the 342 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 2: way of research because it was generally fairly broad area 343 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 2: of interest that I was dealing with, and I would 344 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 2: set to work on doing it. And I was so sure. 345 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 2: I was so happy to be there doing it. I 346 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 2: knew the end was going to happen. I knew we 347 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 2: were going to kicked out, and I was going to 348 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 2: be really sad about it. But boy, I was such 349 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 2: a happy young man. You can't imagine. Well, you were 350 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: in the fight, well put, very well put, sir very 351 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 2: well put, mister speaker. I was in the fight, and 352 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 2: I felt great about it. I felt absolutely great about it. 353 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: You know, Ben, I'm curious, given all your experiences, what 354 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: is one of your fond memories of interacting with President Nixon. 355 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 2: Well, several times when I was walking down the halls 356 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 2: at the Executive Wifice building, which is a beautiful building 357 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 2: with the marble floors, and I was walking down there 358 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: and ran into mister Nixon. I think he was with 359 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 2: ron Ziegler, and I was with my father, and we 360 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 2: were on our way over to the White House mess 361 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 2: which was where the high ranking people like my father 362 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 2: could have lunch. And mister Nixon asked what we were doing, 363 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 2: and I told him. I said, would you like to 364 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 2: join us? And he said no, he said, I'm too 365 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: busy to do that. He said, but do you ever 366 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 2: think how lucky you are to be able to have 367 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 2: lunch with your father? And I said, I think of 368 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 2: it every day that I'm allowed to do it, so 369 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 2: I can hardly tell you how much it means I'm 370 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 2: allowed to do this. I said to mister Nixon, what 371 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 2: would it have meant to you to have been able, 372 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 2: when you were already out of school, to have had 373 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 2: lunch with your father pretty much anytime you wanted. And 374 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 2: he looked at me and he took my arm. He 375 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 2: took my arm, I remember, he took my wrists, and 376 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 2: he said, it would have meant the world. 377 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: In this new book of yours, though you really focus 378 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: on I think something which is very undervalued about Nixon, 379 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: and that is the degree to which he consciously worked 380 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: at ending wars and at creating environments of peace rather 381 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: than conflict. Talk a little bit about how you concluded 382 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: that you wanted to write about Nixon and his role 383 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: trying to make peace. 384 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: Well, mister Nixon said to me, and I think too 385 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 2: many others as well, that he wanted to leave behind 386 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: a generation of peace. Bear in mind, we had had 387 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 2: a lot of wars in the post war period, and 388 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 2: mister Nixon said he was going to leave behind a 389 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 2: generation of piece, or at least that was his goal. 390 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 2: People scoffed and thought that that was just blow hard bragging. No, 391 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 2: he meant it, and he did it. I think if 392 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 2: he were a president right now he would be able 393 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: to brag about peace between certain factions in them at least. 394 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 2: But mister Nixon was very, very very pessimistic about the 395 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 2: Palestinians very I mean, he respected Arabs, he respected the 396 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 2: people who wanted and people of any ethnicity who wanted 397 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 2: peace and who wanted to work hard. But for people 398 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 2: who wanted to struggle for conflict and for war and 399 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: for death, he had no respect for them at all. 400 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: And he wanted to see them going off the face 401 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: of the earth, and largely he got to see that done. 402 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 2: He certainly did not expect there to be what happened 403 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 2: in this past summer, whereby the Israelis were caught completely napping, 404 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 2: a gigantic catastrophy of military intelligences, a catastrophe on a 405 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 2: scale that's maybe never been equaled in the United States before, 406 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 2: and certainly well, I don't know. I hope it never 407 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 2: is equaled again. Nixon liked pace. His mother had said them, 408 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 2: I told you. Maybe I didn't tell you this. I 409 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 2: think I told us. I'm losing my mind because I 410 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 2: get very emotional when I talk about Nixon. I really 411 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 2: loved you, and I didn't just like him. I loved him, 412 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,959 Speaker 2: he has said. His mother had said to him, you 413 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 2: will someday have the opportunity to do something for the 414 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 2: children of God Israel, and you will have a chance 415 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: to do something dramatic for them. Please do not walk 416 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 2: away from that chance. 417 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: And I think it's fair to say that, after the 418 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: shock of the surprise attack by Syria and Egypt against Israel, 419 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: that Nixon's willingness to intervene into airlift equipment and airlift 420 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: capabilities was decisive in the survival of Israel. I think 421 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: if he had not done that, they might have actually lost. 422 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 2: I not surely would have lost mister Speaker, but they 423 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 2: could possibly have lost missus Mair. I'm sure you'd know 424 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 2: this story very well, had out on our desk two 425 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 2: suicide tablets for her to take. But she also was 426 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: apparently prepped to use the Adam mom against the Arabs 427 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 2: if they couldn't stop them. They had the had a 428 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 2: Mom by then, and they were preparing to use it 429 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 2: against I don't know whether Cairo or Damascus or where 430 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 2: they're planning to use it, but yes, they're planning to 431 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 2: use it in some extremely dramatic way. 432 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: Ironically. Of course, she was from Milwaukee, so you had 433 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: a prime minister of Israel who could speak in the 434 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: American idiom as a native because she was. And I 435 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: think that she had a pretty good relationship with Kissinger 436 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: and Kissinger in this period. 437 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 2: Is you know Nixon's right arm Well, I think mister 438 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 2: Nixon had mixed feelings about mister Kissinger. He obviously admired 439 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 2: him a great deal, trusted him a great deal. He 440 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: made some quite funny jokes about The one I remember 441 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 2: most is he was talking about how Kissinger was complaining 442 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 2: about somebody being a self promoter and mister Nixon laughed 443 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 2: and laughed. Can you imagine Henry calling someone else a 444 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 2: self promoter? And of course he was totally right about that. Sure, 445 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: this was a man who said what he believed. He 446 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 2: called balls and strikes, as a very close friend of 447 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 2: mine said, he called balls and strikes, and he really 448 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 2: wanted there to be a generation piece, and he wanted 449 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 2: to be left in his hands there would be a 450 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 2: generation piece, and it was. And his accomplishmanments along those 451 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 2: lines were astronomically wonderful. 452 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: It was interesting to me. It came totally out of 453 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: the blue. I would not have ever think of thought 454 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: of this myself. One of the most complicated and difficult 455 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: things you got involved with involved the Nixon family taxes, 456 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: which I think is just fascinating. And how did that happen? 457 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: Well, the people at the White House, especially Dave Gergan 458 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 2: and his boss, Great Price, I think, had someone exaggerated 459 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 2: idea of my ability. And one night we all worked 460 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 2: very late at night, and one night, just before I 461 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: was going home, Gergon and Price gainery and said that 462 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 2: we have a really difficult task for you. Look here 463 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 2: in this room. There's a very large conference room, and 464 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 2: there are several good sized banker's boxes whatever we were called, 465 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 2: the tons and tons of files in them, and Gergin said, 466 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 2: these boxes contained very important confidential documents, do not show 467 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 2: that anyone under any circumstances period. And I would look 468 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 2: at them, see what you can do with them to 469 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 2: make them come out all right, And mister Nich's helping 470 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: them to get out of it. Let's say, I'm getting 471 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 2: out of this. And I started reading reading, and I 472 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 2: saw something drastically wrong. It happened mister Nixon had been 473 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 2: given advice by a man who I'm sure was a 474 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 2: great man and a wonderful tax layer. But he had 475 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 2: been told that he could take a deduction for gifts 476 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: to the US archives of his presidential papers and documents 477 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 2: that he had worked on when he was president. And 478 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 2: in fact that was not so. He could not take 479 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 2: a deduction for that, and therefore those deductions were invalid. 480 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 2: And a large, large, large part of mister Nixon's income 481 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 2: for tax urmaces was made to be taxable. And this 482 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 2: was totally shocked mister Nixon, and he was plumbos And 483 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 2: I remember very well at his farewell addressed, the boy 484 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 2: was down. Wow was that a powerful event. Mister Nixon said, 485 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 2: right now, I'm trying to figure out a way to 486 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 2: pay my taxes. And he said it in a way 487 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 2: which said made it sound like he really mentioned it. 488 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 2: I think he did. Mean. I don't think he was 489 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 2: ever a wealthy man, maybe not even a well to 490 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 2: do man, but it was called totally flat foot by 491 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: having to pay those taxes. And I just I think 492 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 2: any one of us, even now, where money is very 493 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 2: considerably devalued, would have a hard time if suddenly he 494 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 2: or she were presented with a tax bill of a 495 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 2: couple of million dollars more than he or she thought 496 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 2: it was worthcoming. 497 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: It's interesting to me, though, that you went through it. 498 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: You rendered your best, honest judgment, and if anything, it 499 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: seemed to strengthen Nixon's belief in you. Rather than him 500 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: getting mad at you for telling him he could not 501 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: do something which is going to cost him a lot 502 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: of money, he actually, I think appreciated your honesty in 503 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: sticking to the rules. 504 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,239 Speaker 2: I think he did. And something got very messed up 505 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 2: there because I passed on a memo to mister Nixon 506 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 2: think through Ray Price, saying that he used to have 507 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 2: these two lawyers that aren't loan to you from the bureaucracy, 508 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 2: and they have told you that you're not going to 509 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 2: have to make tax I. With all due respect, they're wrong. 510 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 2: You are going to have to make tax Think you'd 511 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 2: better take this to an attorney in the private sector 512 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 2: and not to a government bureaucrat, although some government bureaucrats 513 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 2: are fine people. And God almighty, if I were a 514 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 2: Nix's shoes and all the burdens pressing upon me and 515 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 2: mister Nixon and they were presented a bill for several 516 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 2: million dollars, I didn't think I was going to have 517 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 2: to pay, I would have been absolutely beside myself, absolutely insane. 518 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: But I think it's also a comment on how good 519 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: a lawyer you were. And remember Nixon himself, between vice 520 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: president and then getting nominated eight years later, had handled 521 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: Supreme Court cases and was considered, I think, an extraordinarily 522 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: good lawyer in his own right. So I suspect he 523 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: read your memo. 524 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 2: It was and is brilliant. 525 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: So I suspect you read your memo as a fellow 526 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: lawyer and thought this is the fact, And I think 527 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: that's important. 528 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 2: I'm afraid that I wished I had been able to 529 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 2: come up with something, but I just couldn't. I racked 530 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 2: my old brain, a young brain, and I couldn't, just 531 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 2: couldn't think of it. And I remember calling Dave Gergan 532 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 2: from my tiny, tiny, tiny house in Georgetown saying, Dave, 533 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 2: I just can't come up with anything. And he said, 534 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 2: now you're Benstein, your Herbstein's son, you can come up 535 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 2: with anything. And I said, Sir, I can't this time. 536 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 2: I just can't. So I'd like to. And I had 537 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 2: done some other work him one of the accusations and 538 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 2: didn't matter. I could not beat the system at It's 539 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 2: not that. 540 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: System one of the stories that I'd never knew about. 541 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: But you did, in fact get one specific impeachment article 542 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: dropped because you were able to convince them that they 543 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: were just wrong. I think it's the only one that 544 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: was dropped out of the whole thing. 545 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 2: Sure, I am really humbled by the fact that you 546 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 2: read my book so carefully. I really really am humbled. 547 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 2: Because I've published a heck of a lot of books, 548 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 2: I rarely rarely get the comments from people who actually 549 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 2: have read them and read them carefully enough to understand 550 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 2: what was going on. And I'm humbled as I say, yeah. 551 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 2: There was one item where it was alleged by the 552 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 2: impeachment committee that mister Nixon had taken a bribe from 553 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 2: a big hotel company where we used to then call 554 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 2: conglomerate to somehow get various tax charges against him dropped. 555 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 2: And in fact that was all made up. He didn't 556 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 2: hadn't done anything even slightly. He was slightly illegal about that, 557 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 2: So he was in the clear and helped a lot 558 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 2: in terms of my writing about that. He really wasn't clear. 559 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: How did you feel when you watched his resignation speech 560 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: and there was a very emotional moment. 561 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 2: I felt horrible. I felt absolutely horrible. I mean just 562 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 2: incredibly horrible. I was there in the east room where 563 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 2: mister Nixon was giving his farewell address to White House staff. 564 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: My mother and father were sitting in the front row. 565 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: Because mister Nixon knew that the Stein family didn't just 566 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 2: lie him, weren't just his employees. We loved him, we 567 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 2: would have done anything for him. And my mother was 568 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 2: sobbing on a scale I've never seen her sob Even 569 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 2: now just drives me insane to think about it. I 570 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: felt terrible. I felt terrible. I feel terrible. I feel terrible. 571 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: I just felt terrible. I thought we were throwing away 572 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,959 Speaker 2: the best present we were ever going to get in 573 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 2: my lifetime. And wow, those tears were tears of sorrow, grief, 574 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 2: pain as a really pear tears, tears, tears, tears. There 575 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 2: are a lot of tears in the Stein family when 576 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 2: we're talking about Richard M. Nixon. 577 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: Interestingly, Nixon leaves. You work briefly in the Ford White House, 578 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: then you go to the Wall Street Journal. But it's 579 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: really a transition where you end up in Hollywood. Now, 580 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: how does that happen? 581 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 2: Well, it's a little more complicated than that. I went 582 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 2: to work at the Wall Street Journal. Bob Bartley liked 583 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,719 Speaker 2: my writing about the political content of the media very 584 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 2: very much. No one else is doing this. I'd like 585 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 2: you to hire you to do it. The pay was miserable, 586 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 2: I mean, really terrible, but I did it anyway, and 587 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 2: they sent me out to Hollywood quite a lot to 588 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 2: interview people in the business, powerful powerful, big time studio heads, 589 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 2: big time agents, big time I guess, let's see, I 590 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 2: guess if there's such a thing a big time writer. 591 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 2: And I learned a lot about how Hollywood worked that 592 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 2: Hollywood really was a one trick pony in terms of politics, 593 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 2: that people in Hollywood who were running Hollywood really were consistently, 594 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 2: always very left wing people. And that wasn't a joke, 595 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 2: that wasn't just a fantasy of US conservatives. It was 596 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 2: really true. And I broke my heart that this supposition 597 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: I'd had and how left wing Hollywood was turned out 598 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 2: to be completely factual. 599 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: Clearly, it's a city that's overwhelmingly dominated by the left, 600 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: and I think that's had a long term impact on 601 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: all of American culture because the the world we operate 602 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: within is a world shaped in large part by people 603 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: who are very far on the left. I think you're 604 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: high point in a sense in your interaction with Hollywood 605 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: is the role of the economics teacher in Ferris Buelersdelle. 606 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: Did you ever see yourself as an actor? Is the 607 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: guy showing up in a movie? 608 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 2: Never? Ever. I had had one small part in a 609 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 2: movie called The Wildlife, where I played a manager of 610 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 2: a surplus store. It was a sequel to a movie 611 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 2: called Fast Times at Ridgemond High. But I never thought 612 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 2: I would become a well known acting sir. I have 613 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 2: been in something like thirty three movies, hundreds of TV shows, 614 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 2: and thousands if you count my own quiz show. I 615 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 2: had a quite successful quiz show on Comedy Central called 616 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 2: Winn Benstein's Money, and I've done a lot of acting. 617 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 2: I liked it a lot, very very lot. I don't 618 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 2: know how. I mean, God has been so good to 619 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 2: me in so many ways. It's just amazing. With one 620 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 2: of the main ways, I say, the main ways letting 621 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 2: me be an American. Secondly be helping me have my wife. 622 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 2: The world's fine as being, and third would be letting 623 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 2: me be in America. I mean, I just every morning 624 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 2: I went to come, I say, I'm in America. I 625 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 2: cannot believe I'm in America. It's wonderful. It's just wonderful. 626 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: You totally validate my decision many many years ago to 627 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: become a historian rather than a social scientist, because I 628 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: always believed that life occurred in ways you could not 629 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: figure out just by drawing lines on the chart. And 630 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: if you think about your life and how it's evolved, 631 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: you could never have sat. 632 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 2: Down and planned it not a billion years. 633 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: So, given the extraordinary range of your experience, if some 634 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: young person walked up to you and said, what is 635 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 1: your advice for how I should live my life? What 636 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 1: would you tell them? 637 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 2: I would say, study something serious, as we just said, 638 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,879 Speaker 2: like history, our economics. Study how to learn to think, 639 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 2: and that would be law school. I'd say I learned 640 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 2: more about how to think and analyze situations in law 641 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,280 Speaker 2: school than I did anywhere else. And save your money 642 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 2: so that you're not always desperate about money. Go forward 643 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 2: from there, but work, learn habits of hard work, and 644 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 2: learn habits of not taking a word of the media 645 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 2: for anything, and learn habits of bucking and tran don't 646 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 2: expect that the trend is going to carry you. Trend 647 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 2: will not carry you very far. The trend is your 648 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 2: friend if you tell the truth. 649 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: Okay, I want to thank you for joining me. 650 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 2: I've enjoyed it so much. 651 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: New Well, I've just learned so much more about your 652 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: diverse life and your extraordinary range of skills. Having you 653 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: join me on news World is terrific, and I think 654 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: that our listeners are going to be very encouraged to 655 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: get a copy of your new book, The Peacemaker, Nixon, 656 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: the Man President and my Friend. This has been just terrific. 657 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 2: Ben, You're very kind. I cannot tell you how much 658 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 2: I've enjoyed it. Thank you very much. 659 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Ben Stein. You can get 660 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,280 Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book, The Peacemaker, Nixon, 661 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: The Man President and My Friend on our show page 662 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gingrid three 663 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our 664 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was 665 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks the team at Gingrish 666 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll 667 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five 668 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,919 Speaker 1: stars and give us a review so others can learn 669 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld concerner 670 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: for my three free weekly columns at gingristree sixty dot 671 00:36:48,520 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 1: com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.