WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Uncle Sam Wants YOU!

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome to the short Stuff, Josh, Chuck, Jerry Dave.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's go.

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<v Speaker 2>I could not, for the life of me find out

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<v Speaker 2>where we have talked about Uncle Sam before, and it

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<v Speaker 2>had to be one of our videos. But I couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>find it. I checked a million times over and it

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<v Speaker 2>was not a short stuff. I couldn't find it anywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>But I know for sure. The only reason I know

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<v Speaker 2>this is because we've talked about it.

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<v Speaker 1>It had to be our Fourth of July special that

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<v Speaker 1>we did with the Onion and The Daily Show.

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<v Speaker 2>That keeps coming back to hanas. Huh. Yeah, because we

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<v Speaker 2>had another one the other day that was I think

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<v Speaker 2>in there. Yeah, I bet you it was.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it had to be right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but who cares. Let's tell the real story Josh

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<v Speaker 2>and Chuck style.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're going to talk about Uncle Sam. If you

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<v Speaker 1>don't know who Uncle Sam is, then by god, you're

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<v Speaker 1>not much of an American.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, how would you describe Uncle Sam? A cartoon,

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<v Speaker 2>a drawing of a man become synonymous and a symbol

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<v Speaker 2>of the United States of America A logo almost.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you've ever seen somebody wearing a red, white

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<v Speaker 1>and blue stove top hat, or a top hat with

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<v Speaker 1>stars on it, that's an Uncle Sam hat.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>You ever see somebody wearing an American flag suit, they're

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<v Speaker 1>basically doing their best Uncle Sam. You ever see anybody

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<v Speaker 1>with a beard, they're pretending their Uncle Sam.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. If you've ever seen a picture of all those

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<v Speaker 2>things put together and a guy pointing at you on

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<v Speaker 2>a poster saying I want you to do whatever, join

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<v Speaker 2>the army or give money for war bonds, that's Uncle Sam.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So our conception of Uncle Sam, the one you

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<v Speaker 1>just described, is thanks to a great illustrator who was

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<v Speaker 1>working around the time America entered the First World War.

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<v Speaker 1>Same one of the great names of all time, James

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<v Speaker 1>Montgomery Flag with Jeez love that guy's name. But he

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<v Speaker 1>was an amazing illustrator and painter, and he painted that

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<v Speaker 1>iconic image of Uncle Sam looking out from the poster,

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<v Speaker 1>pointing at you the viewer, that I want you. I

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<v Speaker 1>remember the Simpsons where it was like the immigration episode,

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<v Speaker 1>Homer put up a poster. He asked that Pooh if

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<v Speaker 1>he could put up a poster in his convenience store,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was Uncle Sam saying I want you out.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you remember that on h No, that's funny though.

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<v Speaker 1>And Pooh took the took the occasion to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>how much he loved America, and Homer goes, wow, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what a poo I'm really gonna miss you.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh, that's that's great. You should say it as a

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<v Speaker 2>poo though.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Nold.

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<v Speaker 2>Not the funny thing about this poster that came around

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen seventeen, and we'll get this is not the

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<v Speaker 2>first incarnation of Uncle Sam, but it's the most amous

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<v Speaker 2>that we know now. But James Montgomery flag supposedly was

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<v Speaker 2>inspired by a British Minister of War, Lord Kitchener, but

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<v Speaker 2>he used his own handsome face as the actual model.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you look up a picture of James Montgomery flag,

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<v Speaker 2>you're in you know, he put wrinkles, he was younger

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<v Speaker 2>in a gray beard. But if you picture that guy

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<v Speaker 2>with that gray beard and hair, it's Uncle.

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<v Speaker 1>Sam, yeah for sure. And Neat Yeah, it was like

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<v Speaker 1>there was a Lord Kitchener poster was essentially the exact

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<v Speaker 1>same thing of drawing of Lord Kitchener looking out from

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<v Speaker 1>the poster pointing at you, saying he wants you to

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<v Speaker 1>sign up to help. And both of these posters were

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<v Speaker 1>propaganda posters. From World War One, that the one that

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<v Speaker 1>flag designed of Uncle Sam had been printed four million times,

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<v Speaker 1>four million copies of a poster that fair of Fawcet

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<v Speaker 1>poster hadn't even been printed four million times. That's how

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<v Speaker 1>that's how successful this poster was, right, And this was

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<v Speaker 1>all just before the war was over, So in about

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<v Speaker 1>years it was printed four million times. The thing is,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure there's people out there that like, well, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the origin of Uncle Sam, and friend, you'd be wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Uncle Sam had been around for at least about one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred years by the time James Montgomery Flagg made his

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<v Speaker 1>iconic poster, and I say, we take a break, we

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<v Speaker 1>come back and we talk about that very issue. If

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<v Speaker 1>you want to know, then you're in luck. Just listen

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<v Speaker 1>to Suffus stuffus.

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<v Speaker 2>No, all right, So the origins of Uncle Sam. There

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<v Speaker 2>was a story that many people believe for a long

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<v Speaker 2>time that it came about during the War of eighteen twelve,

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<v Speaker 2>and that it was named such. The characters name such

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<v Speaker 2>because of Uncle Sam Wilson, who was a meatpacker from

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<v Speaker 2>New York who supplied beef, these big barrels of beef

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<v Speaker 2>to the army for the War of eighteen twelve, they

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<v Speaker 2>had us stamped on them, and they called those barrels

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<v Speaker 2>of beef Uncle Sam's. That was published and republished many,

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<v Speaker 2>many times, starting in the New York Gazette in nineteen thirty,

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<v Speaker 2>leading to a congressional resolution in nineteen sixty one recognizing

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<v Speaker 2>Sam Wilson. But that is not the origins of Uncle Sam, right.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I mean a lot of people think Sam Wilson

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<v Speaker 1>was the guy who started it all. I mean that

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<v Speaker 1>story everything comes together so close, like he really was

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<v Speaker 1>a real person, he really was working in the War

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<v Speaker 1>of eighteen twelve. The barrels of meat really were stamped us.

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<v Speaker 1>But some really dedicated historians won by the name of

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<v Speaker 1>Don Hickey from Wayne State College, another one named Christopher Philippo.

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<v Speaker 1>They both got to the bottom of this and found

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<v Speaker 1>that very very shortly before the Uncle Sam Wilson's story

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<v Speaker 1>could have happened, people were already using Uncle Sam as

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<v Speaker 1>a way of depicting or talking about the United States

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<v Speaker 1>of America.

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<v Speaker 2>As a whole exactly. They found some actual proof proof

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<v Speaker 2>and from an eighteen ten diary from a sixteen year

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<v Speaker 2>old sailor on the USS Wasp where he read he

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<v Speaker 2>was seasick and not feeling so good, and he wrote,

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<v Speaker 2>I swear that Uncle Sam as they call him, would

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<v Speaker 2>certainly forever have lost the services of at least one sailor.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was in eighteen ten, So it was if

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<v Speaker 2>he was using it in a diary entry in eighteen ten,

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<v Speaker 2>that means it was what I would consider probably fairly

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<v Speaker 2>common usage at that point. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>That guy almost certainly didn't make that up in that

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<v Speaker 1>diary entry. Yeah, So Yeah. The thing is is, even

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<v Speaker 1>though Sam Wilson wasn't the actual direct inspiration for Uncle Sam,

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<v Speaker 1>he certainly helped kind of popularize it. I think he

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<v Speaker 1>probably his association with it in the story that came

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<v Speaker 1>from that probably took it from what may have just

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<v Speaker 1>been relegated to navy lingo that would have become archaic

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<v Speaker 1>to now it has a story and it's spread from there.

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<v Speaker 1>So even though he didn't inspire it, it's still like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>Uncle Sam Wilson definitely had a huge role in the

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<v Speaker 1>creation of the idea of Uncle Sam.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely. In fact, there was a minister I believe

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<v Speaker 2>it Sam the real Sam Wilson's funeral that there was.

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<v Speaker 2>He wrote a letter that said that he had often

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<v Speaker 2>talked with Wilson quote about the circumstances which led to

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<v Speaker 2>the singular transfer of his popular name to the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>So it sounds like what that's saying is that Sam

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<v Speaker 2>Wilson even knew that, yes.

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<v Speaker 1>For sure, and went along with it, right. He's like, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it was, and he'd look furtively around. So there was

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<v Speaker 1>another character that I hadn't heard of, a guy named

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<v Speaker 1>Brother Jonathan.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you heard of him? I had not. I didn't think.

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<v Speaker 2>But then I also think that we may have brought

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<v Speaker 2>this up because those pictures looked very familiar.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, they did not to me. But there was a

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<v Speaker 1>character named Brother Jonathan who was who predated Uncle Sam

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<v Speaker 1>by a couple of decades. Brother Jonathan was the original

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<v Speaker 1>personification of America around the time of the Revolution. He

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<v Speaker 1>dressed like a revolutionary cat, with a tri cornered hat

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<v Speaker 1>and those tails and the coat with tails and everything.

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<v Speaker 1>But he was much more rambunctious, much younger. I saw

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<v Speaker 1>editorial cartoon of him forcibly pouring a bunch of French

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<v Speaker 1>brandy down the throat of John Bull, the character who

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<v Speaker 1>personified Great Britain and still does, And he was around

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<v Speaker 1>for decades, and eventually he kind of handed the baton

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<v Speaker 1>off to Uncle Sam, which is really interesting because it

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<v Speaker 1>happened as a time when America was starting to mature.

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<v Speaker 1>The character personifying America went from a younger, rambunctious, brandy

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<v Speaker 1>forcing character to a much more like older stern, kind

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<v Speaker 1>of down to earth pointer guy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think brother Jonathan went away by the eighteen

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<v Speaker 2>six like there was some overlap there, went away in

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<v Speaker 2>the eighteen sixties, and then Thomas Nass And that's a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty big name in cartooning back then, right.

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<v Speaker 1>For sure, he kind of gave us the conception of

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<v Speaker 1>Santa Claus, the pre Coca Cola Sam.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, that's right, I knew, I knew that name

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<v Speaker 2>from somewhere. But Nas is the one who sort of

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<v Speaker 2>came up with the more modern image. And then Flag

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<v Speaker 2>of course made the iconic one that we still use

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<v Speaker 2>that same exact sort of character.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, And so let's see what else, Chuck, Well.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, one of the ways, you know, if you've

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<v Speaker 2>still never seen much Uncle Sam besides recruitment posters and

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<v Speaker 2>stuff like that, or the old propaganda posters that Flag

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<v Speaker 2>was tasked with drawing, is in political cartoons you'll still

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<v Speaker 2>see to this day, like a political cartoon that will

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<v Speaker 2>use Uncle Sam in a variety of ways, whether it's

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<v Speaker 2>a beleaguered Uncle Sam in a food line or a

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<v Speaker 2>or a war mongering Uncle Sam. Like, you know, anyway

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<v Speaker 2>they can. It's not just like kind of one use.

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<v Speaker 2>Whenever he's in a political cartoon, they can. He can

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<v Speaker 2>adapt and change to suit whatever message you're trying to deliver.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, whatever comment you're making on America, you just make

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<v Speaker 1>Uncle Sam do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>There's also a nineteen ninety six slasher film called Uncle Sam,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was about it, and it's that The horror

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<v Speaker 1>fan blog was like, it's not a must sy, but

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<v Speaker 1>you could see it right essentially is what they were doing.

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<v Speaker 1>Some movie exist, But Robert Forrester's in it. He plays

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<v Speaker 1>like a corrupt congressman who dies. Isn't that interesting?

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<v Speaker 2>Year?

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<v Speaker 1>Was it ninety six?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so that was pre Jackie Brown.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're around that time.

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<v Speaker 2>I would think it wouldn't be post Jackie Brown.

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<v Speaker 1>No, did he blow up after Jackie Brown?

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<v Speaker 2>Not blue up, but was definitely relevant enough to probably

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<v Speaker 2>not be in the Uncle Sam slasher movie.

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<v Speaker 1>He landed a role on Breaking Bad season five.

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<v Speaker 2>At least, right, Oh was he in that?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he was the guy. Sorry for spoilers everybody, if

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<v Speaker 1>you haven't seen Breaking Bad yet, but he was the

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<v Speaker 1>guy who brought Oh I can't remember the main character's name,

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<v Speaker 1>but Malcolm in the Middle's dad supplies when he was

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<v Speaker 1>Walter White, Yes, when he was hiding out in New Hampshire,

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<v Speaker 1>Vermont or whatever. He was the guy. He was just

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<v Speaker 1>basically waiting for him to die so he could take

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<v Speaker 1>his money.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's your things that I'm gonna deliver to your house,

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<v Speaker 2>and now if you could just give me your money.

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<v Speaker 2>That's my best impression of him.

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<v Speaker 1>That was great. I thought it was Robert Forster speaking

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<v Speaker 1>just now.

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<v Speaker 2>And by the way, Jackie Brown was in ninety seven,

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<v Speaker 2>so kind of right around that time. Yeah, for my money,

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<v Speaker 2>the most underrated Tarantino film.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, maybe Tarantino saw him in Slasher and was like,

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<v Speaker 1>that's my guy.

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<v Speaker 2>You never know.

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<v Speaker 1>That was a good movie. I don't know if his

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<v Speaker 1>most underrated, Yeah, maybe maybe I could see that. Sure,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a good one.

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<v Speaker 2>He's got a lot of overrated movies.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's got a few under his belt for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>But he's also got some of the greatest of all time.

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<v Speaker 2>Agreed, He's all over the map.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I'm really sad to hear that he's planning

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<v Speaker 1>on making his last movie, although apparently he scuttled the

0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:56.280
<v Speaker 1>project that was his last movie because people had like

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<v Speaker 1>spies had infiltrated it, and he got pretty far into it,

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<v Speaker 1>was like, no, I'm making something else for my last movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Then, huh you know that goes Soderberg was supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>retire to then he did like forty more things.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, well that's good, that's hopeful. So obviously

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<v Speaker 1>we started talking about Quentin Tarantino and the Uncle Sam

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<v Speaker 1>Short Stuff, which means short Stuff is out.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. Stuff you should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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<v Speaker 2>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.