Speaker 1: It's a crazy world out here and we are just
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of it. Broadcasting from the Hip
Speaker 1: Hop Weekly Studios, I'd like to welcome you to another
Speaker 1: episode of Civic Ciper. I'm your host, Ramsey's job. He
Speaker 1: is Ramsay's job. I am q Ward, and you are
Speaker 1: listening to Civic sign indeed you are, Please stick around
Speaker 1: because today is a special show for us. I'm going
Speaker 1: to be be honest. On this show. We talk about
Speaker 1: domestic issues. We talk about issues that are relevant to
Speaker 1: black people, brown people, Indigenous people, lgbt qia plus people,
Speaker 1: Asian people, and other marginalized groups. And we're going to
Speaker 1: take a break from our normal content to discuss the war.
Speaker 1: I hesitate to call it a conflict because it's rather
Speaker 1: more than that. In Palestine, in Israel, these are things
Speaker 1: that have caused a lot of strong reactions online and
Speaker 1: a lot of people to say a lot of things.
Speaker 1: And we are not going to use today's episode to
Speaker 1: suggest that anyone feel any way one way or another,
Speaker 1: because it's a complicated situation, and the more that we
Speaker 1: look into it, the more complicated we're learning that it is.
Speaker 1: I have been having some conversations with some people that
Speaker 1: I respect, who people who are more partial toward the
Speaker 1: Israeli side of things, people are more partial toward the
Speaker 1: Palestinian side of things. All of these people are kind
Speaker 1: people and want what's best for the human beings involved.
Speaker 1: But I think it's our duty and at Q suggestion,
Speaker 1: we are going to spend today to talk about it.
Speaker 1: So stick around for that. We are going to do
Speaker 1: our best with this content and hopefully do right by you,
Speaker 1: our listener. But first and foremost, like we always do it,
Speaker 1: this time, let's start things off with some Ebny excellence,
Speaker 1: shall we. So? Today's Abney Excellence is sponsored by Major
Speaker 1: Threads for innovative fashionable sportswear, checkmajorthreads dot com and Today's
Speaker 1: Ebny Excellence we pulled it from Black Enterprise. Atlanta based
Speaker 1: Derek Automotive is an automotive company that designs electric vehicles
Speaker 1: to provide a truly cheaper to own, carbon free, and
Speaker 1: more convenient solution. Founder Derek Bailey paves this mission forward
Speaker 1: by celebrating automaking pioneers before him. Bailey founded his company
Speaker 1: in Atlanta's Midtown showroom last year, allowing customers to fill
Speaker 1: the essence of Derek Automotive as they are the first
Speaker 1: minority owned electric vehicle company in the industry. This company
Speaker 1: converts gasoline powered cars to electric cars with a focus
Speaker 1: on reducing global carbon emissions. This year, the Future of
Speaker 1: the electric vehicle for Derek autom motivly launch. The prototype
Speaker 1: vehicles will be equipped with a loop gen generator system
Speaker 1: that will charge the car's battery and eliminate charge charging
Speaker 1: plug in stations. Per the company's website, Derek Automotive is
Speaker 1: devoted to using revolutionary technology that makes a global and
Speaker 1: social impact. More than one hundred years after C. R.
Speaker 1: Patterson and Sons, the first black owned auto manufacturer made
Speaker 1: its mark. This is kind of important because you know,
Speaker 1: as the world becomes more digitized, as things become more technological,
Speaker 1: it is important that there are black voices in the room,
Speaker 1: that there are black market forces, that there are black
Speaker 1: optics in these conversations that are being considered. And Derek Bailey,
Speaker 1: of course, being the first electronic black owned the electronic
Speaker 1: vehicle manufacturer, is a person who's checking that box and
Speaker 1: making sure that we're not forgotten, because Lord knows, if
Speaker 1: we were overlooked when it comes to facial recognition and
Speaker 1: the problems that came with that. There could be some
Speaker 1: problems with this as well. So moving on, what we're
Speaker 1: gonna do is we're going to break today's show up
Speaker 1: into two pieces. First, we're going to talk about Palestine,
Speaker 1: and the second part of the show, we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about Israel and I. The first thing I want
Speaker 1: to say is that neither one of us are experts.
Speaker 1: We are cues from Detroit. I'm from Compton, California. The
Speaker 1: closest I've ever been to either of these places is Egypt,
Speaker 1: and that was like a tourist vacation. You know, my
Speaker 1: name is Ramsays, so I had to go there. I
Speaker 1: love Muslim people. I've spent time in Muslim countries. I
Speaker 1: think that Islam is a religion of peace. I think
Speaker 1: it's the most beautiful religion in the world. And I'm
Speaker 1: not religious person, but just as an observer of the
Speaker 1: beauty and the culture that religion tends to encompass, I
Speaker 1: can say those things with a certainty. While I'm here,
Speaker 1: I will say that, you know, I grew up with
Speaker 1: Jewish people. I believe that Jewish people have been the
Speaker 1: kindest to me that I've ever met. I've always felt
Speaker 1: welcome in Jewish people's homes and circles and temples and
Speaker 1: you know, other places of worship and special sort of
Speaker 1: events and holidays. I don't eat pork because I love
Speaker 1: both of these groups of people, and I always want
Speaker 1: to be able to share a meal at a table
Speaker 1: with my Muslim brothers and sisters or my Jewish brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters. With that said, I don't want this to
Speaker 1: sound like I'm taking a side. Queues not taking a side.
Speaker 1: This is not what we're here to do, but rather
Speaker 1: to explain sort of what's happening and perhaps why people
Speaker 1: over here, so far away, are so upset and feel
Speaker 1: so connected to this. So again we're starting with Palestine here. Yeah.
Speaker 1: First things first, there's a history here that goes back
Speaker 1: thousands of years. These are things that I didn't know
Speaker 1: because I haven't had to really wrap my head around
Speaker 1: this stuff until recently. There's been conflict here going back
Speaker 1: a very very long time, and there's been a lot
Speaker 1: of lives lost as a result of these conflicts, and
Speaker 1: of course, you know, the people on the ground feel
Speaker 1: how they feel. I don't believe that there's anybody who's
Speaker 1: wrong or right overall, I believe there are individual actors
Speaker 1: or smaller groups that are that could be considered terrorist groups.
Speaker 1: Sure that do heinous things. Sure, but in terms of
Speaker 1: the Muslims and the Jews, there's no one's wrong. In
Speaker 1: terms of Palestine and Israel, there's no one wrong. There
Speaker 1: are people who are in government, people, you know that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. I had a conversation with Amy Horowitz
Speaker 1: that I'll get into a little bit more on the
Speaker 1: second part of the show. But I asked him a
Speaker 1: question that I believe suggest how I feel about this.
Speaker 1: And I asked him, you know, says, you told me
Speaker 1: how the governments feel. You've told me how these actors feel,
Speaker 1: the state, the officials, how the people feel. The people
Speaker 1: feel like we don't like Jews or we don't like Muslims,
Speaker 1: And he says some do, absolutely, but a good number
Speaker 1: of people don't feel that way. They've elected officials to
Speaker 1: represent their interests. And the connection that I made is
Speaker 1: that if we rewind the clock three four years ago,
Speaker 1: would Donald Trump represent Ramses's feelings on literally anything? And
Speaker 1: the answer would be no. Ramses is a human being
Speaker 1: on the ground who happens to be an American. Donald
Speaker 1: trump Is at that point in time, was the elected
Speaker 1: leader of the country, and so he was able to
Speaker 1: speak for the country in a way that painted all
Speaker 1: of us with two broad a strokes. And so while
Speaker 1: we're talking about the people of Palestine, I don't want
Speaker 1: this to devolve. It would never with me and you Q.
Speaker 1: But I don't want anyone listening to feel as though
Speaker 1: this conversation is headed toward devolving into people of Palestine
Speaker 1: are right and people of Israel are wrong, because that's
Speaker 1: not it. Nor are the people of Israel right and
Speaker 1: the people of Palestine wrong. This is just a conflict,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of human rights relations and things
Speaker 1: like this that really need to be discussed.
Speaker 2: I think the interesting thing about saying this is just
Speaker 2: a conflict is it makes it sound too simple and straightforward. Ok,
Speaker 2: what happens? What is happening here? We've seen happen throughout history.
Speaker 2: We go back to biblical times and you know b c.
Speaker 2: Where there's an other ring of a group of people
Speaker 2: to legitimize inhumane treatment of those people.
Speaker 1: Right, So this conflict.
Speaker 2: Kind of hit an accelerator October seventh, when a terrorist
Speaker 2: organization started killing people and Israeli civilians and soldiers were
Speaker 2: killed cold blooded and what is being called a terrorist attached.
Speaker 1: Sure. Sure, and.
Speaker 2: Because there was already a pre existing othering happening. Right,
Speaker 2: the rights and treatment of Palestinian people in that part
Speaker 2: of the world, where they can walk on the street,
Speaker 2: how they are handled by it is really military and
Speaker 2: the rights that they are denied. It's not about Jewish
Speaker 2: people versus Palestinian people. It's about some people in power
Speaker 2: othering another group and using that to justify inhuman treatment.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So if you can convince people that black people are dogs,
Speaker 2: that Muslims are dogs, that anybody who thinks, loves, and
Speaker 2: prays different than you is a lesser form of creation
Speaker 2: than you are, and treating them like less doesn't feel
Speaker 2: as bad. The really interesting thing and important thing about
Speaker 2: all of the images that are coming out of that
Speaker 2: region is that it should not matter how you love
Speaker 2: or pray. When you see a father rocking the lifeless
Speaker 2: body of his baby, everything in you that's humans should
Speaker 2: wake up in that moment. That father should not be
Speaker 2: less heartbroken because he doesn't pray the way that you do.
Speaker 2: I love the way that you do, and look the
Speaker 2: way that you do. So the reason why I thought
Speaker 2: it was important to have this conversation is exactly what
Speaker 2: you said. We're not here to say this group is
Speaker 2: right and this group is wrong, just that everyone should
Speaker 2: agree that a baby should not be killed by a
Speaker 2: missile while in the hospital or while in its home,
Speaker 2: not in a war zone, not participating in any type
Speaker 2: of conflict. Wars happened between governments and their militaries, but
Speaker 2: there are rules and laws with regards to war. Even
Speaker 2: talking about war that way makes me uncomfortable because there's
Speaker 2: amounts of murder that we're okay with as long as
Speaker 2: it's a part of the as long as it's a
Speaker 2: part of the war, and yeah, you can kill as
Speaker 2: many people as you want over there because they're participating murder.
Speaker 2: Should feel messed up, no matter what, even as a
Speaker 2: retaliation to harm being done to you, even as a
Speaker 2: means of protecting your family. I was having a conversation
Speaker 2: with some recently, someone recently about how I know I
Speaker 2: would feel if someone broke into my house and tried
Speaker 2: to harm my children and I killed them in the moment. Yes,
Speaker 2: I am protecting my family, but as soon as my
Speaker 2: family is safe, I've killed someone, and that would be
Speaker 2: such an impossible thing to reconcile. That is not even
Speaker 2: a just punishment for trying to harm me. Man, Listen,
Speaker 2: if there's a way to get you off of me
Speaker 2: and off of my family, restrain you, or whatever the
Speaker 2: case without your life's possible outcome, I'd love that.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I understand that there are times when that is not
Speaker 2: the option. You don't have the time to think about that,
Speaker 2: you don't have the tools to facilitate that in a
Speaker 2: way that's you know, let me take care of this
Speaker 2: person that's to harm me or those I care about.
Speaker 2: Let me make sure I'm being graceful to them. And
Speaker 2: in that moment that might not be the case. But
Speaker 2: we've become because of kind of our militarization. Our military
Speaker 2: has a great marketing department. Let me say it like that,
Speaker 2: so video games, movies, It makes the military look like
Speaker 2: a really cool thing. And I think it's a necessary thing.
Speaker 2: And I think that those who enlist voluntarily to defend
Speaker 2: us are incredible people, right, But a lot of them
Speaker 2: come back from war different different because murder is murder,
Speaker 2: and most of the times our governments, I don't just
Speaker 2: mean ours in the US, I mean collectively as human beings,
Speaker 2: justify murder as a means to protect wealth and resources,
Speaker 2: not human life, and the defense of our rights to survive.
Speaker 2: But yeah, over there, there's some stuff that they own
Speaker 2: that we want or that we own that they want,
Speaker 2: and as a measure of deciding who's going to own
Speaker 2: that piece of land, those resources that are in that land,
Speaker 2: we're going to murder each other until one of the
Speaker 2: group's decides, Okay, if we've lost too much, you got it.
Speaker 2: We've been seeing this for our whole lives, so we're
Speaker 2: kind of the numb to that idea. But you know,
Speaker 2: part of you know, why Vietnam became so unpopular is
Speaker 2: because very very brave journalists and people went over there
Speaker 2: to get images of it so that we could see
Speaker 2: how bad it was. Because even though we determined that
Speaker 2: Vietnamese people were our enemy at that time, when we
Speaker 2: started to see how our soldiers and their soldiers were
Speaker 2: being affected and impacted and their people and our people
Speaker 2: being affected and impacted by that war, it became far
Speaker 2: less popular. And I think it's very important that there
Speaker 2: are so many journalists, creators, activists sharing content from over there,
Speaker 2: because it's easy to say yeah, that group attacked them,
Speaker 2: so they just attacked them back. Well, that's not fair,
Speaker 2: right when the klu Klux Klan attacks, marches, you know,
Speaker 2: harms a black person, we do not get to collectively
Speaker 2: say that white people as a whole are terrorist or
Speaker 2: bad people. When there is a bad faith actor that
Speaker 2: belongs to a group, the entire group should not become
Speaker 2: a part of the retaliation or the justice or the
Speaker 2: judgment of the bad faith actor.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said, just like in the wake of
Speaker 1: nine to eleven.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, trying to put this bail over all Islamic
Speaker 2: and Muslim people as being terrorists was grossly irresponsible, but
Speaker 2: a lot of people did it. Lack of information but
Speaker 2: also a readiness to other and hate. We're primed, so
Speaker 2: didn't even take much to point out a group. Right
Speaker 2: when our former president called, you know, COVID nineteen, the
Speaker 2: Chinese flew a group was ready to be angry and
Speaker 2: to other Asian people and harmed them. We saw it
Speaker 2: happen in real time because we made an enemy of them.
Speaker 2: So people have found out a masterful way to other
Speaker 2: people to make them less than so that they can
Speaker 2: easily justify and reconcile inhumane treatment of those people, something
Speaker 2: that black people in this country have unfortunately been dealing
Speaker 2: with for the entirety of this country's foundation.
Speaker 1: Let's do this. So there's an individual named Gabriel Miller.
Speaker 1: He gave a passionate speech at the Chicago City Council
Speaker 1: and he kind of spoke to a lot of what
Speaker 1: you said, a lot of what was being misrepped presented
Speaker 1: in journalism. Initially, we were under the impression that the
Speaker 1: terrorist group Hamas I'll say they're a terrorist group because
Speaker 1: they attacked innocent on the left at the concert. I
Speaker 1: know that much is true. They said that they were
Speaker 1: beheading babies, and they used that falsehood to justify the
Speaker 1: response from Israel.
Speaker 2: Right, So this guy, Gabriel, and that response not being
Speaker 2: targeted at that group, right exactly what I mean, Yes,
Speaker 2: comprehensively and collectively wipe out all Palestinians as a response
Speaker 2: to this small group.
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, exactly. So I want to play this clip.
Speaker 1: It's a good while, but listen to it because I
Speaker 1: think that he says it best. What people who feel
Speaker 1: like Palestine we need to pay attention to Palestine too.
Speaker 1: This is what those people might feel like, so, let's
Speaker 1: play this hello and.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having it to provide our comment. I
Speaker 4: would like to add my voice to the course here
Speaker 4: today in opposition to this ridiculous resolution.
Speaker 3: At a time when the.
Speaker 4: Rest of the world is condemning Israel for committing war
Speaker 4: crime after war crime, Chicago is fiddling around on whether
Speaker 4: to condemn Hamas by doing so, Chicago will be doing
Speaker 4: its part in enabling the genocide of Palestinians.
Speaker 3: And this resolution acts.
Speaker 4: Like it's on the side of innocent civilians. So in
Speaker 4: that case, I like to add, are you considering.
Speaker 3: A resolution condemning Israel.
Speaker 4: For using white phosphorus against the civilian population? Are you
Speaker 4: considering condemning Israel for its planned war crime a forced
Speaker 4: removal of one million Palestinians from northern Gaza.
Speaker 3: Are you going to condemn them for.
Speaker 4: Cutting off food, water and electricity to Gaza another war
Speaker 4: crime called collective punishment?
Speaker 3: Did it ever.
Speaker 4: Cross your mind to condemn Israel when they assassinated Palestinian
Speaker 4: journalist Sharen Abu Accola in broad daylight, or when they
Speaker 4: brutalize the people carrying her costs and peacefully, or when
Speaker 4: Israeli sniper's killed innocent people processors throughout the March of Return,
Speaker 4: that the people in office before you ever consider condemning
Speaker 4: Israel at any point its inception, when it crams a
Speaker 4: country full of people into a sixty mile corner of
Speaker 4: their own country, creating the largest concentration camp in history,
Speaker 4: the largest open air prison in the world, the answer
Speaker 4: is a resounding no. You never considered it, nor did
Speaker 4: your ancestors. But unfortunately for you, concept change. The world
Speaker 4: is increasingly aware of the crimes of Israel and increasingly
Speaker 4: aware of the framework of politicians who enable their continued
Speaker 4: apartheid by resolutions such as these, and in the city
Speaker 4: like Chicago, with majority black and brown people who have
Speaker 4: experienced the apartheid like conditions of oppression in the United States,
Speaker 4: a generation of young people have emerged to understand immediately
Speaker 4: that we have everything in common with the television people
Speaker 4: and nothing in common with the brutal Zionist under.
Speaker 3: Who they suffer. A generation of people who.
Speaker 4: Are not surprised when we find out that our politicians
Speaker 4: up to our president, spread lives about forty baby being
Speaker 4: beheaded in order to rationalize genocide. We're only surprised that
Speaker 4: they're forced to walk those lives back, but of course
Speaker 4: the damage is done.
Speaker 3: People are still.
Speaker 4: Spewing the defunct lies about rape and massacre baby, even
Speaker 4: here in this very meeting, when actually there's endless evidence
Speaker 4: of Israel having killed over five hundred babies in the
Speaker 4: last forty eight hours alone, having dropped more bombs than
Speaker 4: twenty four hours, and the US dropped on Afghanistan in
Speaker 4: one year. And finally, let it be known that condemning
Speaker 4: the attack as the actions of some friends group misses
Speaker 4: the point of what's going on. The attacks were carried
Speaker 4: out by broad coalition of groups from every section of
Speaker 4: Palestine society, not just a mob. That coalition represents a
Speaker 4: people determined to attain freedom at any cost, and they
Speaker 4: have arrived at this point in the face of a
Speaker 4: broad coalition of right wing Zionists and the supporters like
Speaker 4: those in the City Council, who would start a meeting
Speaker 4: with a prayer calling for their attempts at freedom, a
Speaker 4: second holocaust, where are so silent you could hear a
Speaker 4: rep song kindness when innocent, peaceful Palestinians are annihilated day
Speaker 4: in and day out, like the Native Americans.
Speaker 3: Of this country.
Speaker 4: If it were another time, these same people will be
Speaker 4: condemning Africans.
Speaker 3: For rebelling against the slave masters and slavery, such as
Speaker 3: Nat Turner or in a Haitian revolution. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I know you're going to have something to say. That's
Speaker 1: your first time hearing that, right, Yes, that is okay,
Speaker 1: so your initial thoughts there.
Speaker 2: I think some things that he said were very important.
Speaker 2: Using words like Zionism, right, because I don't know what
Speaker 2: that means. Well, you'll hear people speak about this being
Speaker 2: anti Semitic. Right, having empathy towards Palestinian babies being murdered
Speaker 2: makes you anti Semitic. And what he pointed out was Zionism,
Speaker 2: and that's the idea that all of the land in
Speaker 2: that region belongs to the people of Jerusalem and Israel
Speaker 2: and that they should be able to forcefully take that
Speaker 2: land over, which is not the same thing as just
Speaker 2: being Jewish and practicing your faith and believing in love
Speaker 2: for all people. You were saying about your treatment by
Speaker 2: Jewish friends that you have. We have some mutual Jewish friends,
Speaker 2: some of the best people that we've ever come across.
Speaker 2: I think love for all humanity is a much more
Speaker 2: accurate way to paint the way that Jewish people feel.
Speaker 2: But you have extremists on both sides of this.
Speaker 1: Anxiety mean a Jewish extremist. What that means.
Speaker 2: I can get you the exact definition for that if
Speaker 2: you would.
Speaker 1: Like, sure, sure, well, let me while you're looking that up,
Speaker 1: let me say this. So that was one part of it,
Speaker 1: and that was the person, obviously who felt very strongly
Speaker 1: about the treatment of the Palestinian people. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that person was wrong.
Speaker 2: So Zionism, by definition a movement for originally re establishing
Speaker 2: and now developing protection of a Jewish nation in what
Speaker 2: is now Israel. It was established as a political organization
Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety seven under Theodore Herzel and was later
Speaker 2: led by I think time wise men.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's either a political party or an extremist group,
Speaker 1: one of the two. I don't know. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to speak on that, but I do want to say
Speaker 1: that we've played the audio from this one. We're going
Speaker 1: to play some audio from John Stewart, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to recall some a conversation that I had on the
Speaker 1: Black Information Network, which is up still with Amy Horowitz,
Speaker 1: who's also Jewish. John Stewart and him both coming up