WEBVTT - What is terror management theory? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know? 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:17.200 From house Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:24.160 the podcast. Hi. I'm Josh Clark. That was Chuck Brian 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.080 who just said, Hi, good times. When you put the 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.320 two of us together, you're gonna get something called stuff. 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:34.879 You should know. It's like mixing baking soda and vinegar 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:39.879 and chest hair. Oh god, that's stuff you should know. 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:46.360 It's explosive. All right, it is, um, Chuck, Yes, are 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:50.400 you okay? Yeah? Great? Okay? Does that that sound convincing? 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:53.720 And I know that you won't be okay By the 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.000 time we finished this one. I thought this is very 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.600 interesting and well written. Thank you very much. I would 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.480 agree with very interesting. No, of course, well written. I 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.040 had your fingers doing the typing. Thank you, Chuck. I 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:09.240 appreciate that. Um, you want to do this one? Okay? 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:15.240 So Chuck, there was a study UM released in a 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.240 little known journal called Conservation Letters. You may have heard 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.600 of it. I hadn't until I read this. I hadn't 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.319 either until I found it. UM. But it was by 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:28.440 Conservation Internationals Will Turner and a couple other people from 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:33.560 that group, and Um. The point of this paper was 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:38.080 to point out that even though we may try to 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:42.960 mitigate climate change, we're still screwing things up. By trying 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:48.320 to mitigate it, and by not preparing for the worst 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.000 e g. Climate change, We're ultimately going to screw things 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:55.680 up after the Earth is already screwed up. Let me 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:59.520 give you a couple of examples. First, is um, one 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.960 fifth of all the world's tropical forests lie within a 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:08.160 few kilometers of areas that would be totally underwater if 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.519 sea levels rose by just one meter, right, Yes, thirty 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:18.440 one miles of heavy human population would be underwater. Thirty 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:24.760 one the forest are within thirty one heavy human populations, right, 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:27.200 And so these human populations aren't just gonna sit there 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.280 and drown one and take one for the Earth. Now, 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.079 we're gonna move upward, and as they move upward, they're 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.200 gonna encounter these forests, and they're gonna say, Hey, that 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.640 bird looks delicious. Hey, I can burn this tree and 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.880 cook this bird. Hey, mama, let's get it on. That's 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.160 gonna be all sorts of weird things said in these 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:49.520 forests after climate change takes place, right, Yeah, these untouched 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.280 forests will now be touched and plundered. Right and um, 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.200 by the way, these this same one five of the 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:00.440 forests are home to exactly half of all of the 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.760 Alliance for Zero Extinction sites, which means that these are 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.480 sites where animals that are filled with animals that are 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.720 on the verge of extinction. Humans show up. It's over right. 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:13.280 So that's if climate change happens and we don't figure 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.560 out what we're going to do for shelter and fuel 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:21.760 and food ahead of time, that's just natural. The other 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:26.000 scenario is, Okay, we're trying to mitigate climate change now 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.839 before some sort of disaster happens in the future. Right, 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:34.639 So say hydroelectric power, Yeah, let's build a dam, and 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.360 why not because that's a clean and green When you 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:43.680 release water, it makes turbines move, which generates electricity, completely 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:48.520 claim cleanly, right, So how can you go wrong? Chalk? Well, Uh, 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.720 it didn't say so in this particular paper, but I 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.320 remember a little podcast we did about the reservoir in 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:57.840 due seismicity, and a Science Channel short film we did 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:03.200 on that where building dams can potentially cause instability and 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.600 tectonic plates from the heavy water and then no water, 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:09.840 and if you build one too close to a dam, 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.240 it could cause an earthquake, cause an earthquake. So that's 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:14.920 one way. That's one way. Another way is that when 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:16.919 you build a day m that river backs up and 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.400 creates a lake in an area that wasn't ever really 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.920 supposed to be a lake in all of the deer 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:25.320 and the squirrels and the koala bears and the plants 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:29.000 are in big trouble. Right. Um. What's more, you also 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:34.120 affect the fresh water downstream of the dam, and basically 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.359 you screw up the environment. Right. This sounds like a 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:39.279 you're darned if you do, you're darned if you don't 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:43.440 kind of thing, right, So chuck, Somebody reading a news 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:49.279 report about this paper, right could say, what's the point, 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.599 why do anything? Right? Just let me eat my hungry 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.800 man dinner. And I don't care anymore. I don't care, 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.840 like I can't do anything about it. And this that 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:04.680 the very understandable and reasonable reaction, is kind of caused 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.080 for concern among a lot of critics of the media, 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:12.719 because well, let's talk about whether or not science believes 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:17.840 that anthropogenic or man made climate change is real. Uh, 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.560 Josh National Academy of Sciences, who we actually know some 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.080 people there, very nice people. They did great work. We 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:28.120 do Hey Rick Hey, Rick um Hey Marty. Thirteen hundred 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:32.000 and seventy two scientists were pulled by the proceedings of 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:37.880 the National Academy of Sciences and agreed that an anthropogenic 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.200 climate change is a real thing. And they even went 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.240 so far as to say, what's up with you? Three like, 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:45.880 what what do you what do you think? And they 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.280 kind of found out that they didn't have the expertise 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:52.719 to really determine that, right, they went back and shamed them. Yeah, 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:57.520 based on the that three percent citation and publication rates. 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.640 They said, these these people are basically stick it, which 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.320 is why they don't believe in manmade climate change. Right, 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.520 So this pole at least indicates that science says, yeah, 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:08.960 manmade climate change is happening. It's a real thing. Okay. 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.080 So you have science on the one hand saying yes, 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.840 there's a problem people, and you have the public on 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.320 the other hand saying, all right, um, I don't want 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.600 to drown and I don't want to drive these species 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.279 out of extinction. What can I do? What can I do? Mr? 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:28.520 Scientists and The group that serves to connect these two, 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.000 the people who know there's a problem and maybe have answers, 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.919 and the people who can actually create change by carrying 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.480 out these these solutions is the media. And it's about 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:43.080 here where that disconnect comes about, especially when there's doomsday scenarios. Yeah, 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.560 let me read you another stat which feels a little 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:50.120 awkward because you found the stat a gallop pole. Last year, 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:56.560 the Future UH of Americans said they believe that the 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:00.800 seriousness of global warming is quote generally exact adgerated. And 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:05.440 that was a seventeen percent rise from when we supposedly 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.320 have a lot more information probably over that time period. 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.320 And you hit the nail on the head. It is 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:17.160 because of something called alarmism, thanks to something called the media, right, 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.400 and part of it, part of it is alarge alarmism. 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.840 Another part is that there's such a thing as professional 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:28.360 climate skeptics, bloggers, reporters, media influencers who are like, no, no, 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.640 it's not real and then take money from pr companies. Sure, 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:35.480 but part of it is alarmism. There's there's if you 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.320 put enough problems onto a person, they're going to just 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.440 throw up their hands and give up. Well, there's also 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:47.400 a British study that you found that, um, the think 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.880 tank Institute for Public Policy Research. They did a review 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.360 of more than six d news articles in the UK 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:56.880 this is just in the UK right on climate change, 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.680 and they found we should read some of these. This 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.680 is the language, alarmist language being used by some of 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:08.880 these uh six articles. The climate of fear, serious climate 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.640 change is now inevitable. That was James Lovelock, for the 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.400 person who came up with the gaia theory. He also said, 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.679 the same guy said the Earth has passed the point 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:22.040 of no return. He also called for the temporary suspension 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:26.360 of democracy until we can handle climate change. Yeah. Um. 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:29.720 Another one said we're headed for Dodo status. Words like 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.800 point of no return, civilizational collapse, global chaos and Malcolm 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:39.520 Gladwell's favorite tipping point, your favorite person. Um. So that 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:43.280 was the alarmist language, right, And it creates the sense 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:48.000 of enormity, right, And that sense of enormity creates a 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.440 reasonable distancing from the problem, like there's something I can 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:54.160 do about this, there's nothing any of us can do 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:59.160 about this. Yeah. But again to my hungry man dinner, 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.560 I have to admit, well, it's a pretty normal human 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.040 thing to do. Well. Basically you're kind of being charged 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:08.200 with like save the planet now, or humans will be 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.640 extinct in the blink of an eye, right, and who 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.240 was not going to shrink from that a little bit 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.720 and say where's my hungry man? Right? But they also 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.439 found that there are two other large categories that climate 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:23.199 change reporting language can be put into. There's also, um 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.920 non pragmatic optimism, which is basically like, it's not gonna 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.400 happen in our lifetime. Who cared? Right? Um? And then 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.840 there's pragmatic optimism, which is like you can change your 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:39.600 light bulbs and make a difference. We we can save ourselves, 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.360 but we have to do something. That's pragmatic optimism. But 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.160 what they found was far and away the most common 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.880 type was alarmism, right because it sells uh, you know, headlines, 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.439 It sells headlines, it sells headlines, sales papers, it does, 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:59.760 but there really aren't papers anymore. So exactly so, Chuck Josh, 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.640 the guys who from this British thing tank what wasn't 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:08.760 uh the Institute for Public Policy Research, They they they 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.720 I don't think they meant to, which is fine to 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:16.760 say that they failed to show causation like you've got 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:20.800 alarms language. You have people who don't care about climate 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.520 change any longer, are afraid of the problems, aren't thinking 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.880 about it. Um. They didn't show that one caused the other. 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.839 They just show that they're correlated. But other studies have 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:34.040 shown that if you manipulate the public in a certain way, 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.600 you're gonna have a counterproductive reaction from him, right, yeah, 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.680 not the reaction that you're intending, right, which I thought 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.000 this was really interesting. The Northwestern study you cited in 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.960 two thousand ten in Canada, they did a public service 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:53.840 announcement a that said, uh, he beinge drinking has uh 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.360 is a bad thing. You shouldn't bene drink. You should 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:00.640 feel guilt and shame for binge drinking. But what happened, well, 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.760 they found that people who were already exposed to send 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:08.240 to the feelings guilt and shame, and then we're shown 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:13.560 this tended to drink too, were likelier to go bench 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:15.960 drink within the next two weeks than people who were 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.800 exposed to these ads, and we're had some sort of 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:22.359 neutral emotion going on, right, that's right. And even scarier, 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.920 there was one in two thousand nine in the Journal 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:30.280 of Experimental Social Psychology, which is a fun read um 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:35.480 cigarette packs. They found that said really blatant aggressive messages 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:39.800 like smoking can kill you actually increased smoking in some people. Right, 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.200 very specific set of people. But if you're trying to 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.080 get people across the board to quit smoking, it would 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.720 be a good idea to not use these death related messages. 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.640 You want to go for death neutral messages. Is that 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.400 what it's called. That's what it's called. Really Yeah, So, 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.600 um that that study, that two thousand nine study from 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:03.440 the Journal of experiment Social Psychology UM was carried out 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:08.480 conducted by some terror management theorists. Chuck, that's right. Terror 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:12.400 management theory is the coolest sounding theory of all time. 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.360 Has nothing to do with terrorism. So all of you 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.360 who are listening to this podcast hoping for one on terrorism, 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.320 you can now be officially disappointed. Yeah. And when I 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.720 first saw terror management theory, the first thing I thought 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.480 it was terrorism. I think of terror. You know what 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.880 I see in my mind? I see like a seventies 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:36.880 horror anthology paperback cover terror management. Yeah, right, like um yeah, 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.840 like maybe a red skull or maybe the the cover 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:45.640 to Stephen King's Dense Maccabre. I've never seen that. Yeah, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:51.600 nice reference. Cep quab uh what queik way you had 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.520 that great funny line at the end of that one podcast, 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.800 which it was one that just came out recently. When 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.160 I was doing the q A for the episode, I 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.520 genuinely like was cracking up at my desk. That is awesome, 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:05.680 It's very good. Okay, that happens all the time though, 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.080 um so, where are we? Terror management theory? This was 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:13.400 created in the nineteen eighties by psychologists at the University 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:21.280 of Miszoo go uh tigers tigers, Prairie tigers, Prairie tigers, 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:25.600 Go prairie tigers, and based on the work of Ernest Becker, 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.880 who was the author of Denial of Death, which a 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:29.400 lot of you may have heard of, and we've talked 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.400 about him before plenty. I think we've talked about him, 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:36.080 and I think definitely, is there a worse way to die? 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.400 He came up big time. Um. But he was an 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:46.280 anthropologist who basically said, um, okay, all culture is created 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:50.760 to distract us from being obsessed with our inevitable death. 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.160 I think he was obsessed with death. He definitely was, 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.559 but through his obsession he managed to free himself. I imagine. 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.040 So that's what he thinks. It's a big distraction. Everything 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:08.439 from sports on TV, television, probably war is used as 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.000 a distraction and to create meaning in life. Well, actually 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.080 one of them, the war was a big one that 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:18.640 he used. He used the the I can't remember what 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.640 it's called. It's not thanatology. That's like the study of death. 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.240 Becker's was more like the obsession with death. Um. But 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:30.360 basically he was saying, we we are aware innately that 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.880 we do create culture to distract ourselves from death. So 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:38.400 when we encounter another culture that's totally foreigner, alien to us, 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.160 and we look at their culture, we see how ridiculous 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.360 it appears, that their belief systems just appear ridiculous to us. 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:49.520 That it reminds us that we're we do the same thing. 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:53.160 Our beliefs are ridiculous. And then we start thinking about 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:55.400 our own deaths. So we want to destroy this culture 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.800 that we encounter because it's reminding us of our own 0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:59.560 death and we hate it. How does that fit the 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:04.800 cultural relativism, wonder, that's the opposite of it. Cultural relativism 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.000 is is also flawed. You know, we we figured out 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.000 to a certain extent because it just allows absolutely anything 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.800 you know, wholesale. But it's the opposite of of what 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.440 I just described cultural relativism is. But terror management theory 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:23.640 takes Becker's ideas and introduces them from anthropology to psychology 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.800 and has really kind of started to standardize them. So 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.000 the idea is that you are afraid of your own 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.840 demise and so you cling like uh mad to the 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:34.920 culture that you most identify with and you've come to 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.440 identify with. Yeah, and and they keep finding and study 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.200 after study that this this theory holds up. And that's 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:45.880 called what distal defense. Yes. Interesting, So let me give 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.080 you an example of a study. There were there were 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.720 a bunch of judges that were that were used in 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.360 a study UM and I guess they chose prostitution to 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.800 use it as like a it's the same case, same offense. 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:03.520 It was easily standardized. Maybe, but they took some judges 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.000 and basically were like, hey, you know you're gonna die 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:10.040 eventually to one group. Then they did another group where 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:15.600 they give him some activity that basically guaranteed um death 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:20.400 saliency I believe, where they weren't thinking about death at all, 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.120 And they sent both groups out to handle their prostitution cases, 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.320 and the judges have been reminded their mortality tended to 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:31.920 throw the book at prostitutes, and they the researchers theorized 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.240 or postulated that the reason these guys through the book 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:40.080 at prostitutes was because this was there they were buying 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.960 into their culture. They were clinging to their culture morals 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.080 and laws and what they believed in. And if you 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.600 think about it, it makes perfect sense. Chuck. You've been hungover, 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:53.360 like tragically hungover before, right, Uh, so you don't want 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.760 to take any risks whatsoever. You kind of feel like 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.080 you're at death store. You're on some sort of edge 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.440 right there where you're really hanging out there and you're 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.560 really vulnerable and like you you maybe you know my 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.280 alwe notice makes you cry while you're watching it on 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.840 the couch, or like you really need to be around 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.720 Emily and have our support right then, right, Yeah, I 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.159 think that's the that's the that's the root of it, 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.320 that's the basis of it. When we're reminded of death, 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.679 we cling to what we find comfort in, and we 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.040 tend to find comfort in the charade of society or 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.880 culture that we create. And I bet you you could 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.280 even trickle it down a little bit, even beyond death, 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:31.560 when you're feeling most fragile and vulnerable, which obviously death 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:36.080 would be the ultimate invulnerable vulnerability exactly. But that's when 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:37.760 you need to support most and you cling to what 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:39.760 you know most, right. But I mean like, if you 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.560 got fired from a job or you know something, there 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.800 was some disruption to your normal life, You're you're going 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.879 to cling to it. So that's distal. That's the distal defense. 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.040 There's also proximal and this this is what regards the 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.800 climate change. Yeah, and that's when you downplay the seriousness 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.200 of something like, um that that's kind of me. I 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.160 don't think about death much, and I'm one to really 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.880 like play it down probably like, oh, you know, you're 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.800 I'm gonna die when I'm old like everybody, but I 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:10.520 don't want to think about that. You just downplay the 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.240 significance of it, right, I wonder though, I mean, like, 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.800 is that the best you can hope for, what to 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.479 die when you're old? No, to to just kind of 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.439 downplay it and not like genuinely not worry about it. 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.800 Like is that really flawed? I hope not. I never 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.520 think about death, but I guess what I asked, because 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.280 I have the same approach, Like I tend to think, well, okay, 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:35.000 I'm aware that I'm going to die one day. Um 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:37.560 you know, I'm aware of death. I don't think about it. 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.960 I'm not obsessed with that, especially not my own. Um, 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.719 but I wonder sometimes, like in that last few minutes, 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:49.480 am I going to freak out? Because people do? Yeah, 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.199 you don't see that in the movies. Emily is a 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:56.200 is very preoccupied with death. Yeah, she didn't talk about 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.520 it much, but she's she's kind of a very dark side, 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:03.440 like I'm driving home and I could easily slip off 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.080 the road and hit that tree, or there's a tornado 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.600 watch in the area and a tree is gonna fall 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:10.200 in our house and kill us all in her sleep 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:12.480 where I don't think about that stuff. But how does 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.800 she react to that? Um, I think there's a low 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.680 level of anxiety. Probably, Yeah, she would probably agree with that. Yeah, 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.840 she didn't listen to the show. That's fine, see whatever 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.479 you want now. Um, So you've got proximal and distal 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.719 defense mechanisms when reminded to mortality, right, Yeah, and imagine 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.159 both can probably happen to right, not one or the 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.200 other right. Um, but with with the doomsday scenario and 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.960 climate change, it seems like terror management can't explain that, 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:43.040 um through the the proximal defense where you just downplay 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.320 it and they're like, Okay, well, who cares, it's not 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:47.359 that big of a deal. It's not gonna happen in 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.800 our lifetime, that kind of thing. Um. So I guess 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:54.480 if we were to uh give advice to the media, 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.119 which we never do in an article. Yeah, and media 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.320 doesn't listen to us anyway, even though we're sort of 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.080 a part of it. Are I don't know if we 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.920 are media fully concluded that yeah, yeah, Um, it would 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:10.639 be to basically adopt the more pragmatic, optimistic approach I 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.040 think tends to work. But it doesn't look like the 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:19.800 media is gonna do it. Chucked because tell him about CFLs. Yes, Josh, CFLs. UM. 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.920 When they first came out, it was all the rage 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:26.359 in green living and as soon as everyone was like, yeah, 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:27.760 you know what, I can deal with the fact that 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:29.439 it looks a little funny and I'm not used to 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.879 this whiter light. Um, I'm gonna do it because I'm 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.720 gonna do my part, my very small part like I 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:38.600 can't exact change against climate change. And then the media 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:43.280 all of a sudden started reporting stories about mercury. Is 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:47.200 it mercury in CFLs and you're gonna die if you 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:52.320 used them exactly? Alarmist language. It's just sensationalism. Man. It's 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.800 been around since the first words were printed, extra extra 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.440 read all about it is like you're going to die 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:02.280 from the plague, and it's still still around. In this case, 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.520 it's climate change, and it's making people shrink under their 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.320 couch instead of doing small things that can actually make 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:13.359 a difference. Prescription. Dr Bryant, Um, You know what I 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.679 do is I don't read. I don't watch local news. 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:20.239 I don't watch I don't watch any news really, no no, no, no, 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:25.119 no no no do you uh no, now that I 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:28.000 think about it, not really. I mean I watch selective 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.080 stuff like if if there's like a good video or something, 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.800 I'll watch it. But I think I get most of 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.560 mine news from Twitter or magazines. Yeah. I get most 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:38.359 of mine from the Internet, and a lot of times 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.439 not from you know, leading sources on the Internet. You 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.400 can usually get an honest truth if you seek out 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:48.200 some of these other websites. Okay, I wish I could 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.760 think of one. So terror management theory and Ernest Becker 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.479 makes another cameo. Thank you Dr Becker for showing up. 0:21:56.119 --> 0:22:00.280 Be Um. If you want to learn more about dooms, stay, 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:05.640 climate scenarios, terror management theory, tobacco warnings. This article's got 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:10.840 it all. You can type in doomsday and climate change 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:13.879 and I think it'll bring this article up. And handy 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:19.440 search bar brings up listener mail. That's right, Josh, we're 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:22.400 gonna call this. Uh, these kids are ripping us off. 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:26.120 Is this catholic stuff you should know? Now? This tongue 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:31.399 in cheek? Um, so Josh, so Chuck. We are teachers, so, Jerry. 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:34.280 We are teachers at Mountain Ridge Middle School in Colorado 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:38.359 Springs at the base of America's Mountain Pike's Peak. We 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:40.480 were inspired by your podcasts over the years and became 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:43.840 regular listeners and decided our eighth grade class should write 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:46.600 podcasts in the style of stuff you should know, record them, 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:50.160 and edit them. Sounds like good conclu Yeah, cool exercise. 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:52.439 So we shared portions of some of your podcasts with 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.560 the kids, asked them to develop the plan and rubric 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:58.720 and based on the elements they based on the elements 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.119 that they heard in your show. The Chuck and Josh 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:05.439 is ms, jazzy theme song, jokes, and stats, demonstrating a 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:11.960 thorough understanding listener mail the whole soup to nuts nasically. Um. 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:14.919 The students were permitted to choose their topics. We encourage 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:16.880 them to find out what's the deal with whatever they 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:22.160 were curious about. Topics range from hovercrafts to grilled meat 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:27.639 and carcinogens to hypoglycemia. So these are some smart kids. Um. 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:29.880 The sound quality isn't as crisp obviously, but you think 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:31.159 you'll get a kick out of it. You should have 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:36.199 heard our first one before we got microphones. Um. The 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:40.000 most interesting aspect, though, guys, was you're really surprised who excelled. 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:42.440 One pair of students didn't have a history of being 0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:46.240 the most academically motivated, but their delivery was really smooth 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:50.959 and professional, and the emo kids were surprisingly funny. They 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:54.120 seem to get the Chuck and Josh banner and uh 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:58.440 could become excellent radio personalities one day awesome. Another group, um, 0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:00.680 shall we say, is not the most so really proficient 0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:03.560 face to face, but behind the microphone they really came 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:06.199