Speaker 1: Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for The Northman and all
Speaker 1: previous Eggers films, so be aware. Hello.
Speaker 2: My name is Joel Week and I'm Carmen Lalan and.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Xtray Vision Extras, an x Ray Vision series
Speaker 1: where we dive even more of your favorite shows, movies, comics,
Speaker 1: and pop culture. Every superhero team needs a side quest,
Speaker 1: and our rotating panel of producers and guests hosts will
Speaker 1: be suited up to help Jason and Rosy cover all
Speaker 1: of the amazing nerd content out there.
Speaker 2: And today we're back with our final Robert Eggers Extras
Speaker 2: episode in preparation for the highly anticipated Christmas release of
Speaker 2: No Seratu next week. And today we're going to be
Speaker 2: recapping his twenty twenty two film The Northmen. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: we're still dog themes.
Speaker 1: Yes, we never we never leave dog themes with Egress.
Speaker 1: He's very much and we'll get into it a little
Speaker 1: bit above. The animal inside of man, I think is
Speaker 1: a strong theme we see throughout his work. But yeah,
Speaker 1: let's let's dive into the airlock.
Speaker 2: Okay, so just to kind of start out with some
Speaker 2: you know, I love I love, I love movie stats,
Speaker 2: you know I love Yeah, I'm watching a movie. I
Speaker 2: love to google, like how much did this movie cost?
Speaker 2: How much did it make? All of that kind of stuff,
Speaker 2: So this is interesting to me. I think the thing
Speaker 2: that stuck out to me watching this movie is realizing
Speaker 2: that this was the biggest and probably the most ambitious
Speaker 2: movie that he's made so far. It's his third movie,
Speaker 2: it's very, very big, and of course because of that,
Speaker 2: it costs a lot of money. It costs somewhere between
Speaker 2: seventy to ninety million dollars to make, and it's the
Speaker 2: first time in his movie making career so far that
Speaker 2: it didn't make that money back. It only made a
Speaker 2: sixty nine point six million at the box office, which
Speaker 2: is disappointing because it wasn't a bad movie, but it
Speaker 2: certainly wasn't my favorite of the Robert Eggars movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this movie comes out at a very interesting time.
Speaker 1: So it's released like November twenty twenty two, I think
Speaker 1: nationally like you'll get you get a premiere of eighteen,
Speaker 1: you get some uh or was it in April? This
Speaker 1: is it April release?
Speaker 2: Yeah, April twenty release.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, okay, okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does feel like it could be a Thanksgiving movie, I.
Speaker 1: Think, as my parents came to visit me, and I
Speaker 1: always thought it was a holiday But now, if I'm
Speaker 1: recalling right, this is our first foray back into theaters.
Speaker 1: It's early twenty twenty two. Yeah, so this is post
Speaker 1: Maverick that's come out. People loved it. That did like
Speaker 1: bonkers at the box office, but it was a feel good,
Speaker 1: uptick kind of movie where if you look at the Northman,
Speaker 1: you know, here's a heavy, kind of very dramatic, almost
Speaker 1: Shakespearean experience. And so it's a little bit different, and
Speaker 1: I think it maybe was challenging to get people back
Speaker 1: in for you know, Scars Guard is a star, Kimmen's
Speaker 1: obviously a star, but it's yeah, it's just it's not
Speaker 1: it doesn't have the top gun rush of joy that
Speaker 1: I think people were really vibing for at the time.
Speaker 1: And it definitely is Eggar's largest film, not just in
Speaker 1: cast sides, which is like quadrupled from his like what
Speaker 1: five person original film The Witch to just maybe four
Speaker 1: total actors I think in The Lighthouse and now this one,
Speaker 1: we're talking huge sets, tons of extra people. He built
Speaker 1: all of those sets. Yeah, and so it's ambitious in
Speaker 1: multiple ways, So the sets are historically accurate. As we've
Speaker 1: come to know Eggars loves he kind of steps out
Speaker 1: side of his dollhouse premise, the thing we've talked about
Speaker 1: a lot over our last two shows. Here you get
Speaker 1: some elements of it, and we'll dive more into those
Speaker 1: a little bit later. But yeah, I do think across
Speaker 1: the board a lot of people were kind of like,
Speaker 1: eh on it. I really loved this film. What was
Speaker 1: your initial reaction to the movie.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think it's important to say too.
Speaker 2: Like I was telling you about this earlier, but I
Speaker 2: completely missed this movie when it was in theaters, and
Speaker 2: in all of that, I had no idea that this
Speaker 2: movie existed until we started talking about it for the
Speaker 2: Robert Eggers series. So I watched it just last week
Speaker 2: while I was on a on a cruise ship, which
Speaker 2: felt very you know, I guess, kind of Viking e
Speaker 2: in a way.
Speaker 1: Sure take it over the seas I see it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I have to say it was the one
Speaker 2: Robert Eggers movie that I could get my boyfriend to
Speaker 2: watch and he actually loved it. He enjoyed it this movie. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they sure do. There's obviously not in the same way
Speaker 2: as The Lighthouse, where the Lighthouse focuses on themes of
Speaker 2: toxic masculinity, this just focuses on themes of masculinity in general,
Speaker 2: I think, which is kind of a theme in Norse
Speaker 2: mythology and Norse culture and stuff like that. And you know,
Speaker 2: I have to say, out of all of the Eggers movies,
Speaker 2: it's not my favorite Eggers movie. It's probably my least favorite.
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean I think it's a bad movie.
Speaker 2: I think it's a fun movie to watch. I enjoyed
Speaker 2: it for the battle scenes, and I enjoyed it for
Speaker 2: the storyline, which I was learning about for the first time.
Speaker 2: But I also really enjoyed it for the kind of
Speaker 2: Eggers for the first time in his movies, I feel
Speaker 2: like he does these kind of I don't know if
Speaker 2: there's cgi sequences, but there are like these dreamlike sequences
Speaker 2: that he's doing showing kind of like the what is
Speaker 2: it the Norse the tree, the tree of life type
Speaker 2: of Yes, yes, yes, I'm gonna sound kind of ignorant
Speaker 2: to Norse culture there, but I thought that was really
Speaker 2: interesting and I thought he did a good job with
Speaker 2: those things. So I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen. I showed up for Alexander Scar's Guard. I
Speaker 1: was like, uh. I was like, okay, what I And
Speaker 1: then they were like, oh, Arianna, Ariana, I'm having a day.
Speaker 2: You're on Wicked.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm trapped between Wicked and Kendrick and now weirdly
Speaker 1: Tyler the Creator. And also I've been reading anyway, I digress,
Speaker 1: I digress or okay. So I showed up for Alexander
Speaker 1: Scar's Guard. I was like a hunky guy, my vampire fave,
Speaker 1: like out here becoming a wolf and fighting in nature.
Speaker 1: Like I said, my parents had come to town. So
Speaker 1: I was like, this is a perfect dad movie. He
Speaker 1: had never been to a a mc Adobe experience. They
Speaker 1: don't have those where he lived, and so I was like,
Speaker 1: you should call and see Adobe projected film. And he
Speaker 1: was like, yes, let's do that. And I was very
Speaker 1: much in my dad bag. So I was like, yeah's
Speaker 1: the blood and the fighting, like yeah, and then yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and they're so oh my god. And we were speaking
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier. This is a film that has
Speaker 1: much less atmosphere than is typical of an Edgar's film
Speaker 1: that we've come to know so far. But the moments
Speaker 1: that do give atmosphere. The initial fight sequence when he
Speaker 1: gets in the boat and he's traveling up river after
Speaker 1: he's left his like you know, he's run away from
Speaker 1: home because he saw his dad got gone and they
Speaker 1: were like, damn, he's coming for me. He gets in
Speaker 1: the boat and he ends up with another tribe. They're
Speaker 1: like pillaging and raiding. That whole sequence of in the boat,
Speaker 1: out of the boat, into the village. It's just it's
Speaker 1: such a long and again, what Edgars really understands about
Speaker 1: Atmosphere is like, well, there's not a lot of a
Speaker 1: narrative happening. There is a lot of story happening. And
Speaker 1: I guess by that, I mean you're understanding what it
Speaker 1: is to be part of this group. You understand what
Speaker 1: it is a part to be uh, just a regular
Speaker 1: villager who at any time could have vikings just descend
Speaker 1: upon you and terror your understanding sort of there are
Speaker 1: no rules here. I mean, they lock up a bunch
Speaker 1: of women and children and burn them alive, burn, and
Speaker 1: then everybody else gets enslaved. It is a crazy sequence
Speaker 1: of events, and yet you're learning so much and experiencing
Speaker 1: so much, Like I really appreciate film that has the
Speaker 1: ability to do that, to just one hundred percent submerge
Speaker 1: you into a story anything. Yeah, that part, so that
Speaker 1: works really well for me. Other elements that work really well.
Speaker 1: All of our women are at Conic Conic. Nicole Kidman
Speaker 1: as a bitchy mom, I pledge my life, please ruin me, Like,
Speaker 1: let's go.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1: You have Byork being Buorick in the Yorkiest way. I
Speaker 1: just oh man, wait, I needed more. We have to
Speaker 1: pause and talk about Buyork. Okay, so you're a big
Speaker 1: fan you yes, you love the Buorg talk to me
Speaker 1: because we were talking about the film and you were like, wait,
Speaker 1: she's in this house and you were like, break down
Speaker 1: the door. No one told me, where was everyone on this?
Speaker 1: Talk to me about this? This magnificent moment with Yorg.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was probably my favorite scene of the
Speaker 2: movie where she's kind of she's kind of like, uh,
Speaker 2: prophesizing his life to him and kind of what what
Speaker 2: his future holds and all of this, And I thought
Speaker 2: I thought the costume design was epic because it didn't
Speaker 2: feel it didn't feel like your typical kind of fantasy
Speaker 2: movie where it was obviously taking liberties on the type
Speaker 2: of costume that the person she looked like she was
Speaker 2: actually wearing, like an what I would imagine a witch
Speaker 2: of that time period would.
Speaker 1: Be historical accuracy. He's not gonna note.
Speaker 2: His and I really really and I really appreciate that
Speaker 2: about his movies, and it just felt like I, for me,
Speaker 2: I needed more Nicole Kidman, I needed more Bure and
Speaker 2: I needed more will and Dafoe too. You know, when
Speaker 2: I when I saw this movie.
Speaker 1: Willem Dafoe, I think is an actor who understands how
Speaker 1: to elevate atmosphere. It's something we'll talk about more in
Speaker 1: his role in No Saratu when we get there. But
Speaker 1: I think particularly in the Lighthouse and here you can
Speaker 1: constantly see his ability to like just vibe with the
Speaker 1: crazy and he's like electric, like he kind of just
Speaker 1: want to keep looking at him and he feels and
Speaker 1: I how do I say this without sounding like a bitch?
Speaker 1: His face lends him the ability to disappear to me, Okay,
Speaker 1: so like listen, I guess he does. He has a face.
Speaker 1: I think that there are faces built for screen. Some
Speaker 1: of them are beautiful, some of them are just dynamic, right,
Speaker 1: And I think there's nothing wrong with either. I say,
Speaker 1: this is a non beautiful person, like I really just
Speaker 1: enjoy a dynamic face. I think dynamic faces help tell stories.
Speaker 1: But we love looking at beautiful people. But there's something
Speaker 1: about seeing somebody who feels like they are authentically of
Speaker 1: the world and not pedestaled or you know whatever that
Speaker 1: sort of helps you and beauty to the story. And
Speaker 1: Dafoe has that in spades, and he does such a
Speaker 1: great job here at time or the fool from drinking
Speaker 1: the pistol, like saying their prayer to just a fire
Speaker 1: to like really again using this sort of typical history,
Speaker 1: like the fool in court history. I'm not as familiar
Speaker 1: with Nordick history. We'll circle back to that in a second.
Speaker 1: But if you look at like French, British, Spanish cultures
Speaker 1: and the fool, like this is a storyteller. This is
Speaker 1: someone who takes your mind off things. This is also
Speaker 1: somebody who can occasionally be a snappy, comeback sidekick to
Speaker 1: the rulers. And when we have people and they're presenting,
Speaker 1: you know, they can say things the king cannot and
Speaker 1: yet let that sort of be within the space. And
Speaker 1: so for him to be both an advisor to the
Speaker 1: king but also sort of this guardian for this kid
Speaker 1: for a short time. Like I really think he imbues
Speaker 1: a lot into this movie, and I think Edgar would
Speaker 1: be why need to work with Willon Dafoe because he
Speaker 1: brings a lot to his films. And then just to
Speaker 1: finish our conversation around the women, like Anya Taylor Joy
Speaker 1: does some ape plus acting in this, like she is phenomenal,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, she's beautiful, but it's fine because that's sort
Speaker 1: of the character is, like, here's this gorgeous woman who
Speaker 1: longs to be free, he's not about to let herself
Speaker 1: be captured. Who's got these freaking I love her power
Speaker 1: set in this like she's kind of a clairvoyant, kind
Speaker 1: of a dream walker sort of vibe is so like
Speaker 1: ethereal and feels very like nature based, which which.
Speaker 2: I'm ground with, which it yeah, it feels.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's not shooting sparks out of her fingers or
Speaker 1: she she does eventually like at one point, like it
Speaker 1: seems to change the set of a storm, but you know,
Speaker 1: she there is an element of her where you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this shit could survive the craziness of this world world,
Speaker 1: And I think that's really cool to see in an Anya.
Speaker 1: I think that Eggers tends to like really wayfish looking
Speaker 1: women who survive situations they couldn't. There's an element of
Speaker 1: that that is, well so where it's that's you know,
Speaker 1: let me put it this way. In comic books, for
Speaker 1: a while, there was one body type for women. It
Speaker 1: was zero waste and all boobs. And while we loved
Speaker 1: Storm and Gene and all of them, they did not
Speaker 1: fully represent the everyone array of women that are, you know,
Speaker 1: on this planet. And so I think there's a little
Speaker 1: bit of elements with that. Yeah, I think there's elements
Speaker 1: of that in Egger's work. It's something I hope to
Speaker 1: see him move beyond, because for the films we've seen
Speaker 1: of him so far, women are there aren't as many
Speaker 1: and they're all sort of the same hype arch type. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'll put that there. Uh, Which, But with that said,
Speaker 1: I do like Anya in this role. I do like
Speaker 1: this role, like Listen, Warrior would be princess come on, like,
Speaker 1: I'm totally here for it, Slash, which she's great.
Speaker 2: I was going to say to that point, he originally
Speaker 2: wanted somebody who was kind of as he described homely
Speaker 2: to play Anya Taylor Joy's character in The Witch, Thomas said,
Speaker 2: but then the casting director kind of pushed him towards
Speaker 2: an Anya Taylor Joy casting and I kind of respect
Speaker 2: I guess. I guess I respect his ability to take
Speaker 2: other people's advice and other people's you know, thoughts into mind. Yeah, yeah, sorry, continue.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think I think making that choice. Really again,
Speaker 1: there is something to be said about how we treat
Speaker 1: gorgeous women or women who are perceived as being more
Speaker 1: beautiful within the world, and the unfair things that are
Speaker 1: often heaped on those types of women, like the all
Speaker 1: of the things like she if you live in a
Speaker 1: periit in society and you are actually as beautiful as
Speaker 1: Annie Taylor Joy and you're an intelligent person, like, that's
Speaker 1: a hell for you. Like Puritan society is not going
Speaker 1: to be a good Your very existis is considered an
Speaker 1: evil temptation to people. Like that's difficult, I think here
Speaker 1: in a world of conquerors and conquests to be alone, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, not physically imposing woman who is again considered beautiful, Like,
Speaker 1: that's a dangerous and difficult position to navigate. These people
Speaker 1: take what they want and kill everything else, like it's
Speaker 1: not a great space. And so that exactly so that
Speaker 1: in and of itself imbues interest to the character's story.
Speaker 1: And again I think it's very valid narrative. I just again,
Speaker 1: as far as all of these worlds you're setting up, Well,
Speaker 1: if we're gonna go on this check, let's talk about
Speaker 1: the guys we've seen so far, right, which I think
Speaker 1: we've got a religious Zelo in the Witch who moves
Speaker 1: his whole family to the wilderness, lies to his wife,
Speaker 1: her family. Okay. Then we have two men in the
Speaker 1: light House, one a young guy who is hiding from
Speaker 1: a life of crime and an older man who's been
Speaker 1: sort of shut up in this one place for years
Speaker 1: and is maybe insane. Yeah, and then here you get
Speaker 1: scars guards character Amleth. This is actually based off the
Speaker 1: Nordic story Amleth, which is the inspiration for Shakespeare's Hamlett
Speaker 1: and Amleth and Hamlet princes who idolized their daddies.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Ethan Hawk, which I mean I would too.
Speaker 1: Ethan Hawk plays such a good king here, put more
Speaker 1: crowns on his head. He's so hot. And then you
Speaker 1: know you have Fiorier played by classiest bang who is incredible.
Speaker 1: I love classes in this. He's very good, you know,
Speaker 1: jealous brother who is out for power, so you're really
Speaker 1: dealing with, like again, power struggles. But again I think
Speaker 1: that showcases that Egars has a wide variety of men.
Speaker 1: I just think you could do better on women. That's
Speaker 1: where I'm at in the third film. But now that
Speaker 1: we're talking about masculinity, you had brought up earlier this
Speaker 1: idea of exploring different types of masculinity between the Lighthouse
Speaker 1: and the Northmen, and I really wanted you to expand
Speaker 1: upon that because it was very interested in that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I had a lot of thoughts about it,
Speaker 2: because you know, we talked about how The Witch was
Speaker 2: received not necessarily set out to be a story about
Speaker 2: basically a feminist story, a good for her kind of
Speaker 2: feminist story, and then the Lighthouse is a story that
Speaker 2: was received as a story about two men that were
Speaker 2: both very kind of toxic in their masculinity and also
Speaker 2: struggling power dynamics. And that's the Lighthouse. And then with
Speaker 2: this story, and you know, I think it, you know,
Speaker 2: it's interesting to consider here that this is not necessarily
Speaker 2: what Robert Eggers is setting out to do with his movies.
Speaker 2: But this is I think, how the public is perceiving
Speaker 2: the movies. So our host Jason pointed out that when
Speaker 2: this movie came out, which again totally lost on me,
Speaker 2: because I actually think I wasn't the target. I was
Speaker 2: not the target audience for this movie, you know. And
Speaker 2: he pointed out that when this movie came out, it
Speaker 2: resonated with a lot of men in the kind of
Speaker 2: alt right kind of scene. Because Nordic, Nordic religion and
Speaker 2: culture is is like, is I guess kind of what's
Speaker 2: the word I'm looking for here? It's it's used to
Speaker 2: mean something totally different by people.
Speaker 1: With Nordic symbolism is often co opted by white supremacist
Speaker 1: spaces as being like are pure white spaces that are
Speaker 1: above and beyond the rest of society, and they use
Speaker 1: you know, the tattoos, the figures, this sort of Viking
Speaker 1: ideology in modern day which is disturbing. We can say that.
Speaker 2: And it seems like the stories that come out of
Speaker 2: out of Norse mythology are also very focused on like
Speaker 2: masculinity being like the like a be all end all
Speaker 2: of society. If you're not a mighty man, then You're nothing,
Speaker 2: and so I kind of found that interesting to kind
Speaker 2: of look back on, especially within twenty twenty two, not
Speaker 2: that things are much different in twenty twenty four, but
Speaker 2: just to see kind of remember and reflect on where
Speaker 2: we were at at that moment in time, and just
Speaker 2: it's interesting how these movies get received by the public.
Speaker 2: And I think the target audience, whether intentional or not,
Speaker 2: for this movie were definitely those types of guys who
Speaker 2: were white supremacist kind of like you know, very into
Speaker 2: that Norse mythology stuff, and of course more people than
Speaker 2: that saw it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely think they gravitated toward the film, but
Speaker 1: like they would do for anything, it doesn't matter, like
Speaker 1: if you say Viking the Ears immediately perk op I,
Speaker 1: do you think for the Like what's really interesting about
Speaker 1: this picture and the ways it's tackling masculine is all
Speaker 1: about sort of inheritance, like what is your right as
Speaker 1: a princeling basically, but then also like as a man,
Speaker 1: like what is what path are you forging for yourself?
Speaker 1: It's much less contained like Lighthouse gives you talking masculinity
Speaker 1: of two men trapped in a room trying to figure
Speaker 1: out who's going to be at the top this. They
Speaker 1: give the whole world to Amlith, Like you could travel
Speaker 1: to the New World, you could go to Iceland, you
Speaker 1: could stay here and start a family, you could die,
Speaker 1: like really, like any possible future outcome is your worse
Speaker 1: to select. And so if that's the case, then what
Speaker 1: you're getting at is what's the most honorable thing this
Speaker 1: character feels like he can do. And I think the
Speaker 1: film sort of leads it up to the audience interpret
Speaker 1: whether this is positive or negative. But like, to him,
Speaker 1: the only thing that matters is avenging his father right,
Speaker 1: not a future, not even his own name, but just
Speaker 1: this in writing this Deep Injustice. It's a film that
Speaker 1: I think doesn't need to worry too much about its
Speaker 1: messaging because it's evolving from hundreds of thousands of years
Speaker 1: old narrative. I don't know how old Amleth is, but
Speaker 1: it I don't think Eggars is that concerned with like
Speaker 1: what you walk away with from this film, which is
Speaker 1: interesting because it's his most narrative forward film, but because
Speaker 1: he's so hyper focused on the history and the adaptation,
Speaker 1: which you're really sort of left with, Like, man, that
Speaker 1: Viking fight was cool, Like they fought on a volcano.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's effing sick. Or you know, you
Speaker 1: get the moment with the sacrifice where he kills one
Speaker 1: of the slave watchers in the hut and leaves the
Speaker 1: body for the people diver. Oh my god, that was
Speaker 1: really cool and graphic and wow, or you get, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of this coupling with olga Anya's character in the woods,
Speaker 1: which is really sort of serene and beautiful and a
Speaker 1: lovely respite in the middle of all of this, like Gore,
Speaker 1: and you really are moving from tonally being more about
Speaker 1: the nature like he tonality before was really these woods
Speaker 1: are spooky. Look at this thick fog. The ocean is roaring,
Speaker 1: and it's giving you a lot of poetic artistic imagery. Okay, cool,
Speaker 1: where this is really giving you the tonality of Shakespeare.
Speaker 1: I'm having a hard time articulating exactly what I mean,
Speaker 1: but I think it's just that the tone is more.
Speaker 1: These motifs are really cool, and they have been applied
Speaker 1: to a story that I'm familiar enough with I don't
Speaker 1: have to really ask that many questions. The actors should
Speaker 1: click in and know immediately like what the narrative is about.
Speaker 1: And so we can move from through this well known narrative.
Speaker 1: We just really heightened visual vibes. The Viking town was
Speaker 1: really cool. This volcano setting is nope Iceland sparse, and
Speaker 1: as they're building up this small community, it looks really.
Speaker 2: Cool, which it really was filmed in Iceland too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, given as much as we have talked about how
Speaker 1: much we like atmosphere and how it's played, how do
Speaker 1: you feel the absence of it affected your viewing of
Speaker 1: this movie.
Speaker 2: So I know a lot of people complain about, you know,
Speaker 2: about the use of too much atmosphere because it does
Speaker 2: make the story I guess feel like it drags personally,
Speaker 2: that I think is what hooks me. Just because I'm
Speaker 2: such a vibes person, I guess like I enjoy I
Speaker 2: enjoy taking in all the vibes. I was definitely had
Speaker 2: fun with the battle scenes that I wanted more of
Speaker 2: the atmosphere. The scenes that I think felt most atmospheric
Speaker 2: to me were, of course, like you said, the volcano
Speaker 2: scene and the ocean and stuff like that. But also
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed like the smaller scenes where it was
Speaker 2: just a few actors, like the Shaman scene with William
Speaker 2: Dafoe's character where they're doing like this kind of dinner animal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then of course I really enjoyed the scene with Buorick.
Speaker 2: Those are the scenes that stuck out the most to
Speaker 2: me because I think that they were the most like
Speaker 2: atmosphere heavy, the most vibes heavy to me. So I
Speaker 2: kind of missed it in this movie. I kind of
Speaker 2: I wanted more of it because I don't, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't love you know, I'm not somebody who like
Speaker 2: craves on screen violence so much.
Speaker 1: I do. I love a bloody human, I think, especially
Speaker 1: if I studied fight choreography in high school and college,
Speaker 1: and I just always have such appreciation for people who
Speaker 1: can do it and make it look real and like
Speaker 1: when they're taking it to the blows from these swords,
Speaker 1: oh god, it's the fight coordination is phenomenal in this film.
Speaker 1: But to your point, when I think back about like
Speaker 1: what scenes resonate the most to me, the most impactful scene,
Speaker 1: it's probably him sneaking into his mom's room as an
Speaker 1: adult to like confront her for the first time and realizing, oh,
Speaker 1: this woman not only didn't love me, was absolutely in
Speaker 1: cahoots to get my father killed. Like the devastation of
Speaker 1: that sequence, the reality of it, the and again the
Speaker 1: fact that it's to me Eggers's best in his bad
Speaker 1: and nobody's doing any talking, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, that is not the same thing. She seduces
Speaker 2: him too, or tries to seduce him.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, But that's what I'm saying, Like, there's these
Speaker 1: moments that for Edgars, it's it's the quieter, more intonated
Speaker 1: space where you the viewwork can fill in gaps and
Speaker 1: be appalled or struck by just a simple image, you know,
Speaker 1: a treasured item on a desk we thought was lost forever,
Speaker 1: or a look between mother and summer. We're like, what
Speaker 1: is about to have? Why? Why this? It's man? I do?
Speaker 1: I do wish we had more of that here. But
Speaker 1: I also think a lot of people were pushing for
Speaker 1: more commercially accessible work from Edgars coming off, because The
Speaker 1: Lighthouse did have its fair share of folks who were like,
Speaker 1: this is too weird, it's too much. But I like
Speaker 1: about Northman is that we don't fully lose that. Though
Speaker 1: we were talking before we started about that the level
Speaker 1: of flatulence jokes still present in this film, and I
Speaker 1: had mentioned that I thought that because Edgers is such
Speaker 1: a history buff that perhaps this crude humor is a
Speaker 1: reflection of the types of true humor we see and like,
Speaker 1: there's a good Shakespeare line.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I believe that Edgar's studied at a Shakespeare
Speaker 2: like a big Shakespeare college.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he's a Shakespearean uh like scholar.
Speaker 2: Yes, and the way I was looking for, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a Shakespearean scholar. Plus, you know, he reads
Speaker 1: a lot of these things. And if you're reading old
Speaker 1: plays or uh like, novellas and stuff like, especially things
Speaker 1: though considering, okay, like for plays are for the masses, right,
Speaker 1: so anybody poor rich can go see a play back
Speaker 1: in the day. And then books tended to be you know,
Speaker 1: you have to have a little education in order to
Speaker 1: be able to read them. But anything that was made
Speaker 1: for your common person typically had a ton of fart jokes.
Speaker 1: Here's something from the Comedy of Errors from Shakespeare. If
Speaker 1: you break anything, I'll break your foolish head. A man
Speaker 1: may break a word with you, sir, and words are
Speaker 1: but wind I and break it in your face, so
Speaker 1: he break it not behind. I could break a word
Speaker 1: with you, sir, and words are only wind.
Speaker 2: I just love that fart jokes are a continual source
Speaker 2: of comedy throughout the course of human history. I guess
Speaker 2: we've always just found them funny.
Speaker 1: We love crudeness. We really can't help ourselves. Okay, there
Speaker 1: is a moment and another one Shakespeare's Pays where the
Speaker 1: dog is going to be win for farting, but the
Speaker 1: servant takes credit for the fart and so he gets
Speaker 1: whipped instead. There's a line from King Lear where it says,
Speaker 1: blow winds and crack your cheeks, rage and blow I
Speaker 1: see you Shakespeare. Yeah, Lawrence talks about getting whipped in
Speaker 1: two gentlemen from Verona. So yeah, the fire jokes are resplendent.
Speaker 1: And I think there's an element of sort of old
Speaker 1: school storytelling applied to all of Eggar's films that sort
Speaker 1: of makes me think these films are going to be
Speaker 1: accessible for the long run. Right, If you're constantly relaying
Speaker 1: your stories based off history, there's a feeling that people
Speaker 1: will want to be able to return to these because
Speaker 1: these stories are eternal. I do wonder if in adapting
Speaker 1: these stories, like if Eggars is bothering or even needs
Speaker 1: to speak to a modern audience again us to something else.
Speaker 1: Talk much more about Nosaratu, because I have lots of
Speaker 1: thoughts on it, But with this one, I think I
Speaker 1: sort of let it slide because I was very into
Speaker 1: the Oh, it's Hamlet set in Viking times. It's based
Speaker 1: off the play that inspired Hamlet, like all of that
Speaker 1: was really working, and from an editation perspective, going back
Speaker 1: to the original source text is vastly interesting. It sort
Speaker 1: of gives much more life because so Ophelia destroys me
Speaker 1: a little bit because she's like, I'm just very like
Speaker 1: Ophilia has reasons to be sad. But in the play,
Speaker 1: if you're not getting the backstory, that happens very fast,
Speaker 1: you're really like, Wow, this girl is whiny and then
Speaker 1: she just runs off and dies. It's so sad. I
Speaker 1: love the idea of the Ophilia type character being like
Speaker 1: a witch who has helped entrap slavers that escaped and
Speaker 1: has a hot, hunky husband. Good for you, girl, you
Speaker 1: get it. And now twins, what a look she made it.
Speaker 2: I love that he loves to put twins in his
Speaker 2: movies too.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 1: We'll talk more about ones when we get back. Really
Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll be right back, okay, And
Speaker 1: we're back. Twins. Yeah, we know Robert Egger has twin siblings.
Speaker 1: I love that they're always just popping up. It seems
Speaker 1: like such a lovely nod to them. Twins in different
Speaker 1: pieces of old fiction are either they're like weird to
Speaker 1: older what's up with these twins? They're so rare, like
Speaker 1: are they connected? Are they a bad omen? A good
Speaker 1: omen And I sort of love the way he uses
Speaker 1: them throughout in The Witch. They are creepy and unnerving
Speaker 1: and you kind of never know what they're gonna do here.
Speaker 1: They seem like a positive, like auspicious omen for the
Speaker 1: future of this land. That by getting this revenge and
Speaker 1: taking out this evil man and this like not great kingdom,
Speaker 1: you sort of give positive life and space to the
Speaker 1: surrounding communities. And they have a new leader and they
Speaker 1: have a good mother, and so we won't deal with
Speaker 1: the same kind of trauma we had before. And maybe
Speaker 1: maybe that's what Egress was going for. He was like,
Speaker 1: you know what we could really be doing here is
Speaker 1: solving our family trauma by killing it. Just just kill
Speaker 1: your family's trauma.
Speaker 2: No, I agree, I could definitely see that.
Speaker 1: I think maybe we can count the twins as atmosphere.
Speaker 1: You know, another thing I wanted to talk to you
Speaker 1: a little bit about was we've talked about the dollhouse
Speaker 1: element throughout his films. In Here, you know, we get
Speaker 1: these larger lande I think the Viking Village, the first
Speaker 1: one that we sort of explore is it's definitely part
Speaker 1: of the dollhouse. It has the same hovering, sort of
Speaker 1: floaty camera that we get in the opening shots of
Speaker 1: the lighthouse to sort of explore what's happening in this community.
Speaker 1: And I find it interesting that if the dollhouse is
Speaker 1: meant to be a confining structure that leads to a
Speaker 1: building of ten, is that lost when we have so
Speaker 1: many dollhouses. The Icelandic Village, the original sort of Germanic
Speaker 1: Viking village, and maybe the Witch's Hut are sort of
Speaker 1: the most distinct dollhouses I can't think of in here.
Speaker 1: Maybe the opening the castle at the top. You get
Speaker 1: a little bit of it there, but again you're there
Speaker 1: for such a short time. I wonder if this also
Speaker 1: is part of the loss of atmosphere, Is that by
Speaker 1: opening up his world so much, what do we lose
Speaker 1: from him?
Speaker 2: I think what I concluded after watching this movie is
Speaker 2: that Robert Eggers is at his best when he does
Speaker 2: things very small and no hate to you know, all
Speaker 2: of the cool, the cool scenes that we go to,
Speaker 2: all of the cool sets that we go to, and
Speaker 2: all of the battle scenes and all of that. I
Speaker 2: just think, as he has said in his own words,
Speaker 2: it's after the Lighthouse came out, before the Northmen came out.
Speaker 2: He said that his stories are about telling simple stories.
Speaker 2: And I really think that that is his strong suit,
Speaker 2: is telling these small, simple stories that are kind of
Speaker 2: contained within a single dollhouse or two dollhouses or whatever.
Speaker 2: I think Once he starts to expand the dollhouses and
Speaker 2: has multiple of them, we lose the atmosphere, we lose
Speaker 2: kind of the simpleness of what I think makes his
Speaker 2: work so good. And for me, that's just what I
Speaker 2: remember thinking to myself as like, Wow, this guy really
Speaker 2: does his best stuff with a small budget, with a
Speaker 2: few actors in like a couple of locations, versus I
Speaker 2: agree the big stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think The Northman it's like a good It's first,
Speaker 1: it's like a ninety percent on Rotten Tomatoes. It's is
Speaker 1: a good movie. I don't want anyone to walk up.
Speaker 1: I didn't like it. I enjoy this movie. I just
Speaker 1: think for the things that Eggers brings to the table
Speaker 1: that excites me as a director. I just feel like
Speaker 1: anybody could have directed the Northman.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a very good way.
Speaker 1: I know. It doesn't feel like oh Eggers here, he
Speaker 1: is present in his bag. I just feel like any
Speaker 1: Hollywood director with you know, a fair amount of knowledge
Speaker 1: on filmmaking could come up with a decent version of
Speaker 1: this story.
Speaker 2: And absolutely, I.
Speaker 1: Okay, I understand that he was passionate about it. But
Speaker 1: I think what really makes both The Lighthouse and The
Speaker 1: Witch work for me is like these are films with
Speaker 1: like immediate narratives, right, They're really like the Witch narrative
Speaker 1: is yes, old and inspired by history, but continuously things
Speaker 1: we're seeing today. And I think specifically, I feel like
Speaker 1: like Instagram culture around the time that movie comes out,
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of prevalent messaging. I think The
Speaker 1: Lighthouse a ton of prevalent messaging about toxic masculinity, about
Speaker 1: how men interact with one another. Here. Again, it's a
Speaker 1: fine story, it's what we've seen a lot, But I
Speaker 1: just don't feel the kind of urgency in the storytelling,
Speaker 1: and while that maybe isn't effective for all people, it
Speaker 1: certainly diminishes a bit for me the watching experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed, No, I agree completely. I think I think, like,
Speaker 2: just like you said, any director could have made this movie,
Speaker 2: because there's there's not a whole lot about it that
Speaker 2: feels like it has that Eggor's stamp on it. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a few themes that I think kind of carry
Speaker 2: over from the other movies. But I do feel like
Speaker 2: this could have easily been any other big Hollywood director,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: A grade. Yeah, so the Northman, you know, I think
Speaker 1: I encourage people to watch it. I think it's fun.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about where you rate it amongst the film
Speaker 1: thus far to close out. Okay, yeah, so you were
Speaker 1: saying this is your least favorite of the Eggs direct.
Speaker 2: Yes, but again I don't hate it. I think it
Speaker 2: was no watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it would just be at the bottom, right.
Speaker 2: And if I wrote a list it honestly, it goes
Speaker 2: in chronological order. From me, My favorite is The Witch,
Speaker 2: than the Lighthouse, and then The Northmen and then I
Speaker 2: haven't seen No Saratu yet, but I'm excited for it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hold my no Saratu reading until we get
Speaker 1: to know Su. But I think my most favorite is
Speaker 1: definitely The Witch. Then I do think The Northman is
Speaker 1: second favorite. And here's why. I don't think it's a
Speaker 1: better film than the Lighthouse, but for me, it's an
Speaker 1: easier watch. I don't love people fighting again. I love
Speaker 1: blood and sling a sword, sure, but like direct, intense, emotional,
Speaker 1: your face fighting gives me anxiety. Yeah, And well, I
Speaker 1: think the it's a much more am vicious and probably
Speaker 1: overall successful film the Lighthouse is. And by ambitious I
Speaker 1: mean putting two actors in a room and trying to
Speaker 1: get a plus performances out of both of them and
Speaker 1: bring an audience to theaters to watch that. And it's
Speaker 1: in black and white and a weird aspect ratio, Like
Speaker 1: all of that stuff is dangerous and risky, and it's
Speaker 1: definitely something that investors and studios would pause before, you know,
Speaker 1: launching into. Whereas The Northman vikings big sets, historic epic
Speaker 1: that's a little bit easier to sell because audiences are
Speaker 1: much more familiar with it. So even though the production
Speaker 1: wise that was more ambitious, I think on a creativity
Speaker 1: level less so but it's fun to watch. I can
Speaker 1: whip it out with my dad, you kind of. It's
Speaker 1: one of those movies I love having on in the
Speaker 1: background when I'm working because every time you look up,
Speaker 1: the screen is just so beautiful. I really really appreciate
Speaker 1: the use of natural colors. It's a weird thing to
Speaker 1: say all films are colorized, but there's something that feels
Speaker 1: so like the night sky, and this movie feels like
Speaker 1: a jewel, like it's so beautiful. And I think when
Speaker 1: they use natural elements like fire and is like everything
Speaker 1: just feels like you can feel the heat. It's like
Speaker 1: alive and present. Like cinematography is gorgeous. And even though
Speaker 1: there are fart jokes and somebody drinks pea, it happens
Speaker 1: intermittently and it is not the whole effing film like Lighthouse,
Speaker 1: White House. We're masturbating, we're shitting. Oh, there's shit blowing
Speaker 1: in the wind. I can't with the light. The Lighthouse
Speaker 1: grosses me out, even though I do think it's so good.
Speaker 2: It's gross.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's disgusting. So I put it on for a second,
Speaker 1: but only because the disgusting factor of the Lighthouse. It's
Speaker 1: it's a tad too far for me to watching on
Speaker 1: the regular, But yeah, you know, I think this is
Speaker 1: a good showing by Eggers. I think by pushing himself
Speaker 1: and showing he's capable of handling a lot of these things,
Speaker 1: that gives him a lot of leverage for future career moves,
Speaker 1: which is good. And I think it's something he needed
Speaker 1: to get off of his plate. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of especially historically inclined theater inclined people, at some point
Speaker 1: are always like, what am I tackling Shakespeare? How am
Speaker 1: I gonna do it? What was that gonna look right?
Speaker 1: Am I gonna do it? And what? He found a
Speaker 1: unique way to bring that to audiences that was fun
Speaker 1: and again challenged him, and so I think all of
Speaker 1: that worked. I'm excited to see knows for raw Tu
Speaker 1: and what he has to sort of say about it.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to hear Jason and Rosie's thoughts on it. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: let us know your thoughts on the North men, would
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Let us know how you
Speaker 1: guys are. Oh that part too, Yes, let us know
Speaker 1: your rankings and let us know your feelings overall on
Speaker 1: just this retrospective we've had a really good time, Carmen,
Speaker 1: I love doing this with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I enjoy being
Speaker 2: two cinema cinema nerds together, so.
Speaker 1: Well. Join us back here tomorrow for our review of
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings The Ward or hear them Wednesday,
Speaker 1: the extras are back together for a wrapup of the
Speaker 1: best video games of twenty twenty four, and later in
Speaker 1: the week we will be continuing our coverage of Scaleton
Speaker 1: Crew be Advised, Ghiltin Recrue releases on two holidays back
Speaker 1: to back, so scheduling's gonna get a little lunky, but listen,
Speaker 1: we love Star Wars. We're gonna be covering every episode,
Speaker 1: so stay tuned for all of those. That's the episode.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2: Bye.
Speaker 3: B X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kitsumsion and
Speaker 3: Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our
Speaker 3: executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising
Speaker 3: producer is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent
Speaker 3: and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord. Kenny Goodman
Speaker 2: and Heidi on discoord Moderata