WEBVTT - Xtras: The Northman

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<v Speaker 1>Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for The Northman and all

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<v Speaker 1>previous Eggers films, so be aware. Hello.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Joel Week and I'm Carmen Lalan and.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Xtray Vision Extras, an x Ray Vision series

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<v Speaker 1>where we dive even more of your favorite shows, movies, comics,

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<v Speaker 1>and pop culture. Every superhero team needs a side quest,

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<v Speaker 1>and our rotating panel of producers and guests hosts will

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<v Speaker 1>be suited up to help Jason and Rosy cover all

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<v Speaker 1>of the amazing nerd content out there.

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<v Speaker 2>And today we're back with our final Robert Eggers Extras

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<v Speaker 2>episode in preparation for the highly anticipated Christmas release of

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<v Speaker 2>No Seratu next week. And today we're going to be

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<v Speaker 2>recapping his twenty twenty two film The Northmen. Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we're still dog themes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, we never we never leave dog themes with Egress.

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<v Speaker 1>He's very much and we'll get into it a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit above. The animal inside of man, I think is

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<v Speaker 1>a strong theme we see throughout his work. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>let's let's dive into the airlock.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so just to kind of start out with some

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I love I love, I love movie stats,

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<v Speaker 2>you know I love Yeah, I'm watching a movie. I

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<v Speaker 2>love to google, like how much did this movie cost?

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<v Speaker 2>How much did it make? All of that kind of stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>So this is interesting to me. I think the thing

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<v Speaker 2>that stuck out to me watching this movie is realizing

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<v Speaker 2>that this was the biggest and probably the most ambitious

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<v Speaker 2>movie that he's made so far. It's his third movie,

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<v Speaker 2>it's very, very big, and of course because of that,

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<v Speaker 2>it costs a lot of money. It costs somewhere between

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<v Speaker 2>seventy to ninety million dollars to make, and it's the

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<v Speaker 2>first time in his movie making career so far that

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<v Speaker 2>it didn't make that money back. It only made a

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<v Speaker 2>sixty nine point six million at the box office, which

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<v Speaker 2>is disappointing because it wasn't a bad movie, but it

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<v Speaker 2>certainly wasn't my favorite of the Robert Eggars movies.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this movie comes out at a very interesting time.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's released like November twenty twenty two, I think

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<v Speaker 1>nationally like you'll get you get a premiere of eighteen,

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<v Speaker 1>you get some uh or was it in April? This

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<v Speaker 1>is it April release?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, April twenty release.

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<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say, okay, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it does feel like it could be a Thanksgiving movie, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Think, as my parents came to visit me, and I

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<v Speaker 1>always thought it was a holiday But now, if I'm

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<v Speaker 1>recalling right, this is our first foray back into theaters.

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<v Speaker 1>It's early twenty twenty two. Yeah, so this is post

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<v Speaker 1>Maverick that's come out. People loved it. That did like

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<v Speaker 1>bonkers at the box office, but it was a feel good,

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<v Speaker 1>uptick kind of movie where if you look at the Northman,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, here's a heavy, kind of very dramatic, almost

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<v Speaker 1>Shakespearean experience. And so it's a little bit different, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think it maybe was challenging to get people back

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<v Speaker 1>in for you know, Scars Guard is a star, Kimmen's

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<v Speaker 1>obviously a star, but it's yeah, it's just it's not

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't have the top gun rush of joy that

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<v Speaker 1>I think people were really vibing for at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>And it definitely is Eggar's largest film, not just in

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<v Speaker 1>cast sides, which is like quadrupled from his like what

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<v Speaker 1>five person original film The Witch to just maybe four

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<v Speaker 1>total actors I think in The Lighthouse and now this one,

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking huge sets, tons of extra people. He built

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<v Speaker 1>all of those sets. Yeah, and so it's ambitious in

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<v Speaker 1>multiple ways, So the sets are historically accurate. As we've

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<v Speaker 1>come to know Eggars loves he kind of steps out

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<v Speaker 1>side of his dollhouse premise, the thing we've talked about

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<v Speaker 1>a lot over our last two shows. Here you get

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<v Speaker 1>some elements of it, and we'll dive more into those

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit later. But yeah, I do think across

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<v Speaker 1>the board a lot of people were kind of like,

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<v Speaker 1>eh on it. I really loved this film. What was

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<v Speaker 1>your initial reaction to the movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I think it's important to say too.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I was telling you about this earlier, but I

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<v Speaker 2>completely missed this movie when it was in theaters, and

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<v Speaker 2>in all of that, I had no idea that this

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<v Speaker 2>movie existed until we started talking about it for the

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<v Speaker 2>Robert Eggers series. So I watched it just last week

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<v Speaker 2>while I was on a on a cruise ship, which

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<v Speaker 2>felt very you know, I guess, kind of Viking e

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<v Speaker 2>in a way.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure take it over the seas I see it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I have to say it was the one

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<v Speaker 2>Robert Eggers movie that I could get my boyfriend to

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<v Speaker 2>watch and he actually loved it. He enjoyed it this movie. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they sure do. There's obviously not in the same way

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<v Speaker 2>as The Lighthouse, where the Lighthouse focuses on themes of

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<v Speaker 2>toxic masculinity, this just focuses on themes of masculinity in general,

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<v Speaker 2>I think, which is kind of a theme in Norse

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<v Speaker 2>mythology and Norse culture and stuff like that. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I have to say, out of all of the Eggers movies,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not my favorite Eggers movie. It's probably my least favorite.

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<v Speaker 2>But that doesn't mean I think it's a bad movie.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's a fun movie to watch. I enjoyed

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<v Speaker 2>it for the battle scenes, and I enjoyed it for

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<v Speaker 2>the storyline, which I was learning about for the first time.

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<v Speaker 2>But I also really enjoyed it for the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>Eggers for the first time in his movies, I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like he does these kind of I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>there's cgi sequences, but there are like these dreamlike sequences

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<v Speaker 2>that he's doing showing kind of like the what is

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<v Speaker 2>it the Norse the tree, the tree of life type

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<v Speaker 2>of Yes, yes, yes, I'm gonna sound kind of ignorant

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<v Speaker 2>to Norse culture there, but I thought that was really

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<v Speaker 2>interesting and I thought he did a good job with

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<v Speaker 2>those things. So I enjoyed it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, listen. I showed up for Alexander Scar's Guard. I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, uh. I was like, okay, what I And

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<v Speaker 1>then they were like, oh, Arianna, Ariana, I'm having a day.

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<v Speaker 2>You're on Wicked.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm I'm trapped between Wicked and Kendrick and now weirdly

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<v Speaker 1>Tyler the Creator. And also I've been reading anyway, I digress,

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<v Speaker 1>I digress or okay. So I showed up for Alexander

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<v Speaker 1>Scar's Guard. I was like a hunky guy, my vampire fave,

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<v Speaker 1>like out here becoming a wolf and fighting in nature.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I said, my parents had come to town. So

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, this is a perfect dad movie. He

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<v Speaker 1>had never been to a a mc Adobe experience. They

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<v Speaker 1>don't have those where he lived, and so I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>you should call and see Adobe projected film. And he

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<v Speaker 1>was like, yes, let's do that. And I was very

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<v Speaker 1>much in my dad bag. So I was like, yeah's

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<v Speaker 1>the blood and the fighting, like yeah, and then yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're so oh my god. And we were speaking

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit earlier. This is a film that has

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<v Speaker 1>much less atmosphere than is typical of an Edgar's film

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<v Speaker 1>that we've come to know so far. But the moments

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<v Speaker 1>that do give atmosphere. The initial fight sequence when he

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<v Speaker 1>gets in the boat and he's traveling up river after

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<v Speaker 1>he's left his like you know, he's run away from

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<v Speaker 1>home because he saw his dad got gone and they

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<v Speaker 1>were like, damn, he's coming for me. He gets in

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<v Speaker 1>the boat and he ends up with another tribe. They're

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<v Speaker 1>like pillaging and raiding. That whole sequence of in the boat,

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<v Speaker 1>out of the boat, into the village. It's just it's

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<v Speaker 1>such a long and again, what Edgars really understands about

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<v Speaker 1>Atmosphere is like, well, there's not a lot of a

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<v Speaker 1>narrative happening. There is a lot of story happening. And

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<v Speaker 1>I guess by that, I mean you're understanding what it

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<v Speaker 1>is to be part of this group. You understand what

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<v Speaker 1>it is a part to be uh, just a regular

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<v Speaker 1>villager who at any time could have vikings just descend

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<v Speaker 1>upon you and terror your understanding sort of there are

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<v Speaker 1>no rules here. I mean, they lock up a bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of women and children and burn them alive, burn, and

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<v Speaker 1>then everybody else gets enslaved. It is a crazy sequence

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<v Speaker 1>of events, and yet you're learning so much and experiencing

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<v Speaker 1>so much, Like I really appreciate film that has the

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<v Speaker 1>ability to do that, to just one hundred percent submerge

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<v Speaker 1>you into a story anything. Yeah, that part, so that

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<v Speaker 1>works really well for me. Other elements that work really well.

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<v Speaker 1>All of our women are at Conic Conic. Nicole Kidman

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<v Speaker 1>as a bitchy mom, I pledge my life, please ruin me, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>let's go.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, yes.

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<v Speaker 1>You have Byork being Buorick in the Yorkiest way. I

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<v Speaker 1>just oh man, wait, I needed more. We have to

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<v Speaker 1>pause and talk about Buyork. Okay, so you're a big

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<v Speaker 1>fan you yes, you love the Buorg talk to me

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<v Speaker 1>because we were talking about the film and you were like, wait,

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<v Speaker 1>she's in this house and you were like, break down

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<v Speaker 1>the door. No one told me, where was everyone on this?

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<v Speaker 1>Talk to me about this? This magnificent moment with Yorg.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that was probably my favorite scene of the

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<v Speaker 2>movie where she's kind of she's kind of like, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>prophesizing his life to him and kind of what what

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<v Speaker 2>his future holds and all of this, And I thought

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<v Speaker 2>I thought the costume design was epic because it didn't

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<v Speaker 2>feel it didn't feel like your typical kind of fantasy

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<v Speaker 2>movie where it was obviously taking liberties on the type

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<v Speaker 2>of costume that the person she looked like she was

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<v Speaker 2>actually wearing, like an what I would imagine a witch

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<v Speaker 2>of that time period would.

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<v Speaker 1>Be historical accuracy. He's not gonna note.

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<v Speaker 2>His and I really really and I really appreciate that

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<v Speaker 2>about his movies, and it just felt like I, for me,

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<v Speaker 2>I needed more Nicole Kidman, I needed more Bure and

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<v Speaker 2>I needed more will and Dafoe too. You know, when

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<v Speaker 2>I when I saw this movie.

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<v Speaker 1>Willem Dafoe, I think is an actor who understands how

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<v Speaker 1>to elevate atmosphere. It's something we'll talk about more in

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<v Speaker 1>his role in No Saratu when we get there. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think particularly in the Lighthouse and here you can

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<v Speaker 1>constantly see his ability to like just vibe with the

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<v Speaker 1>crazy and he's like electric, like he kind of just

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<v Speaker 1>want to keep looking at him and he feels and

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<v Speaker 1>I how do I say this without sounding like a bitch?

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<v Speaker 1>His face lends him the ability to disappear to me, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so like listen, I guess he does. He has a face.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that there are faces built for screen. Some

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<v Speaker 1>of them are beautiful, some of them are just dynamic, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And I think there's nothing wrong with either. I say,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a non beautiful person, like I really just

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<v Speaker 1>enjoy a dynamic face. I think dynamic faces help tell stories.

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<v Speaker 1>But we love looking at beautiful people. But there's something

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<v Speaker 1>about seeing somebody who feels like they are authentically of

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<v Speaker 1>the world and not pedestaled or you know whatever that

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<v Speaker 1>sort of helps you and beauty to the story. And

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<v Speaker 1>Dafoe has that in spades, and he does such a

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<v Speaker 1>great job here at time or the fool from drinking

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<v Speaker 1>the pistol, like saying their prayer to just a fire

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<v Speaker 1>to like really again using this sort of typical history,

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<v Speaker 1>like the fool in court history. I'm not as familiar

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<v Speaker 1>with Nordick history. We'll circle back to that in a second.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you look at like French, British, Spanish cultures

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<v Speaker 1>and the fool, like this is a storyteller. This is

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<v Speaker 1>someone who takes your mind off things. This is also

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<v Speaker 1>somebody who can occasionally be a snappy, comeback sidekick to

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<v Speaker 1>the rulers. And when we have people and they're presenting,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they can say things the king cannot and

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<v Speaker 1>yet let that sort of be within the space. And

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<v Speaker 1>so for him to be both an advisor to the

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<v Speaker 1>king but also sort of this guardian for this kid

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<v Speaker 1>for a short time. Like I really think he imbues

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<v Speaker 1>a lot into this movie, and I think Edgar would

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<v Speaker 1>be why need to work with Willon Dafoe because he

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<v Speaker 1>brings a lot to his films. And then just to

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<v Speaker 1>finish our conversation around the women, like Anya Taylor Joy

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<v Speaker 1>does some ape plus acting in this, like she is phenomenal,

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<v Speaker 1>Like yeah, she's beautiful, but it's fine because that's sort

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<v Speaker 1>of the character is, like, here's this gorgeous woman who

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<v Speaker 1>longs to be free, he's not about to let herself

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<v Speaker 1>be captured. Who's got these freaking I love her power

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<v Speaker 1>set in this like she's kind of a clairvoyant, kind

0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:34.240
<v Speaker 1>of a dream walker sort of vibe is so like

0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:39.120
<v Speaker 1>ethereal and feels very like nature based, which which.

0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm ground with, which it yeah, it feels.

0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:44.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she's not shooting sparks out of her fingers or

0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.040
<v Speaker 1>she she does eventually like at one point, like it

0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.440
<v Speaker 1>seems to change the set of a storm, but you know,

0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:56.040
<v Speaker 1>she there is an element of her where you're like, oh,

0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:00.320
<v Speaker 1>this shit could survive the craziness of this world world,

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.800
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's really cool to see in an Anya.

0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:08.000
<v Speaker 1>I think that Eggers tends to like really wayfish looking

0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:13.040
<v Speaker 1>women who survive situations they couldn't. There's an element of

0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:20.840
<v Speaker 1>that that is, well so where it's that's you know,

0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.120
<v Speaker 1>let me put it this way. In comic books, for

0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.840
<v Speaker 1>a while, there was one body type for women. It

0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:30.720
<v Speaker 1>was zero waste and all boobs. And while we loved

0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Storm and Gene and all of them, they did not

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 1>fully represent the everyone array of women that are, you know,

0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.640
<v Speaker 1>on this planet. And so I think there's a little

0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.920
<v Speaker 1>bit of elements with that. Yeah, I think there's elements

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.040
<v Speaker 1>of that in Egger's work. It's something I hope to

0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.679
<v Speaker 1>see him move beyond, because for the films we've seen

0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.600
<v Speaker 1>of him so far, women are there aren't as many

0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:59.280
<v Speaker 1>and they're all sort of the same hype arch type. Yeah,

0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.520
<v Speaker 1>so I'll put that there. Uh, Which, But with that said,

0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.120
<v Speaker 1>I do like Anya in this role. I do like

0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:09.600
<v Speaker 1>this role, like Listen, Warrior would be princess come on, like,

0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm totally here for it, Slash, which she's great.

0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.720
<v Speaker 2>I was going to say to that point, he originally

0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.720
<v Speaker 2>wanted somebody who was kind of as he described homely

0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:23.280
<v Speaker 2>to play Anya Taylor Joy's character in The Witch, Thomas said,

0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:27.320
<v Speaker 2>but then the casting director kind of pushed him towards

0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.920
<v Speaker 2>an Anya Taylor Joy casting and I kind of respect

0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 2>I guess. I guess I respect his ability to take

0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:42.160
<v Speaker 2>other people's advice and other people's you know, thoughts into mind. Yeah, yeah, sorry, continue.

0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, I think I think making that choice. Really again,

0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.120
<v Speaker 1>there is something to be said about how we treat

0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.120
<v Speaker 1>gorgeous women or women who are perceived as being more

0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.240
<v Speaker 1>beautiful within the world, and the unfair things that are

0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.680
<v Speaker 1>often heaped on those types of women, like the all

0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:58.960
<v Speaker 1>of the things like she if you live in a

0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.520
<v Speaker 1>periit in society and you are actually as beautiful as

0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.560
<v Speaker 1>Annie Taylor Joy and you're an intelligent person, like, that's

0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:06.760
<v Speaker 1>a hell for you. Like Puritan society is not going

0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.160
<v Speaker 1>to be a good Your very existis is considered an

0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.000
<v Speaker 1>evil temptation to people. Like that's difficult, I think here

0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:19.640
<v Speaker 1>in a world of conquerors and conquests to be alone, uh,

0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:25.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, not physically imposing woman who is again considered beautiful, Like,

0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 1>that's a dangerous and difficult position to navigate. These people

0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.640
<v Speaker 1>take what they want and kill everything else, like it's

0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 1>not a great space. And so that exactly so that

0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.280
<v Speaker 1>in and of itself imbues interest to the character's story.

0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.800
<v Speaker 1>And again I think it's very valid narrative. I just again,

0:15:43.960 --> 0:16:02.280
<v Speaker 1>as far as all of these worlds you're setting up, Well,

0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 1>if we're gonna go on this check, let's talk about

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.880
<v Speaker 1>the guys we've seen so far, right, which I think

0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:14.040
<v Speaker 1>we've got a religious Zelo in the Witch who moves

0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 1>his whole family to the wilderness, lies to his wife,

0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.680
<v Speaker 1>her family. Okay. Then we have two men in the

0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:24.960
<v Speaker 1>light House, one a young guy who is hiding from

0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.720
<v Speaker 1>a life of crime and an older man who's been

0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:30.920
<v Speaker 1>sort of shut up in this one place for years

0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:35.360
<v Speaker 1>and is maybe insane. Yeah, and then here you get

0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 1>scars guards character Amleth. This is actually based off the

0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Nordic story Amleth, which is the inspiration for Shakespeare's Hamlett

0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:52.160
<v Speaker 1>and Amleth and Hamlet princes who idolized their daddies.

0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm. Ethan Hawk, which I mean I would too.

0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.040
<v Speaker 1>Ethan Hawk plays such a good king here, put more

0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:09.119
<v Speaker 1>crowns on his head. He's so hot. And then you

0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:15.000
<v Speaker 1>know you have Fiorier played by classiest bang who is incredible.

0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.639
<v Speaker 1>I love classes in this. He's very good, you know,

0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.480
<v Speaker 1>jealous brother who is out for power, so you're really

0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:25.880
<v Speaker 1>dealing with, like again, power struggles. But again I think

0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.119
<v Speaker 1>that showcases that Egars has a wide variety of men.

0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:30.840
<v Speaker 1>I just think you could do better on women. That's

0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.359
<v Speaker 1>where I'm at in the third film. But now that

0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.080
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about masculinity, you had brought up earlier this

0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:39.360
<v Speaker 1>idea of exploring different types of masculinity between the Lighthouse

0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.200
<v Speaker 1>and the Northmen, and I really wanted you to expand

0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:43.640
<v Speaker 1>upon that because it was very interested in that.

0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:46.520
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I had a lot of thoughts about it,

0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:50.119
<v Speaker 2>because you know, we talked about how The Witch was

0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:55.640
<v Speaker 2>received not necessarily set out to be a story about

0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.280
<v Speaker 2>basically a feminist story, a good for her kind of

0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:02.760
<v Speaker 2>feminist story, and then the Lighthouse is a story that

0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:07.440
<v Speaker 2>was received as a story about two men that were

0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.680
<v Speaker 2>both very kind of toxic in their masculinity and also

0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.600
<v Speaker 2>struggling power dynamics. And that's the Lighthouse. And then with

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.040
<v Speaker 2>this story, and you know, I think it, you know,

0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.000
<v Speaker 2>it's interesting to consider here that this is not necessarily

0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 2>what Robert Eggers is setting out to do with his movies.

0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.639
<v Speaker 2>But this is I think, how the public is perceiving

0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:35.440
<v Speaker 2>the movies. So our host Jason pointed out that when

0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.760
<v Speaker 2>this movie came out, which again totally lost on me,

0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.560
<v Speaker 2>because I actually think I wasn't the target. I was

0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.720
<v Speaker 2>not the target audience for this movie, you know. And

0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.439
<v Speaker 2>he pointed out that when this movie came out, it

0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:52.080
<v Speaker 2>resonated with a lot of men in the kind of

0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:59.800
<v Speaker 2>alt right kind of scene. Because Nordic, Nordic religion and

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.120
<v Speaker 2>culture is is like, is I guess kind of what's

0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.480
<v Speaker 2>the word I'm looking for here? It's it's used to

0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:09.840
<v Speaker 2>mean something totally different by people.

0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:15.360
<v Speaker 1>With Nordic symbolism is often co opted by white supremacist

0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:20.080
<v Speaker 1>spaces as being like are pure white spaces that are

0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:23.960
<v Speaker 1>above and beyond the rest of society, and they use

0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, the tattoos, the figures, this sort of Viking

0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:32.560
<v Speaker 1>ideology in modern day which is disturbing. We can say that.

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.320
<v Speaker 2>And it seems like the stories that come out of

0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.359
<v Speaker 2>out of Norse mythology are also very focused on like

0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:43.600
<v Speaker 2>masculinity being like the like a be all end all

0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:49.560
<v Speaker 2>of society. If you're not a mighty man, then You're nothing,

0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.880
<v Speaker 2>and so I kind of found that interesting to kind

0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.480
<v Speaker 2>of look back on, especially within twenty twenty two, not

0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.439
<v Speaker 2>that things are much different in twenty twenty four, but

0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:03.880
<v Speaker 2>just to see kind of remember and reflect on where

0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:06.800
<v Speaker 2>we were at at that moment in time, and just

0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.840
<v Speaker 2>it's interesting how these movies get received by the public.

0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:15.399
<v Speaker 2>And I think the target audience, whether intentional or not,

0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.040
<v Speaker 2>for this movie were definitely those types of guys who

0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.639
<v Speaker 2>were white supremacist kind of like you know, very into

0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:26.400
<v Speaker 2>that Norse mythology stuff, and of course more people than

0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:26.960
<v Speaker 2>that saw it.

0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I definitely think they gravitated toward the film, but

0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:33.679
<v Speaker 1>like they would do for anything, it doesn't matter, like

0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.119
<v Speaker 1>if you say Viking the Ears immediately perk op I,

0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:42.360
<v Speaker 1>do you think for the Like what's really interesting about

0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.320
<v Speaker 1>this picture and the ways it's tackling masculine is all

0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:49.080
<v Speaker 1>about sort of inheritance, like what is your right as

0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:53.680
<v Speaker 1>a princeling basically, but then also like as a man,

0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:57.159
<v Speaker 1>like what is what path are you forging for yourself?

0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.879
<v Speaker 1>It's much less contained like Lighthouse gives you talking masculinity

0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:04.399
<v Speaker 1>of two men trapped in a room trying to figure

0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 1>out who's going to be at the top this. They

0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:11.840
<v Speaker 1>give the whole world to Amlith, Like you could travel

0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.080
<v Speaker 1>to the New World, you could go to Iceland, you

0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.720
<v Speaker 1>could stay here and start a family, you could die,

0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:20.680
<v Speaker 1>like really, like any possible future outcome is your worse

0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:23.800
<v Speaker 1>to select. And so if that's the case, then what

0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.200
<v Speaker 1>you're getting at is what's the most honorable thing this

0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.240
<v Speaker 1>character feels like he can do. And I think the

0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.400
<v Speaker 1>film sort of leads it up to the audience interpret

0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:36.880
<v Speaker 1>whether this is positive or negative. But like, to him,

0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:41.200
<v Speaker 1>the only thing that matters is avenging his father right,

0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:46.399
<v Speaker 1>not a future, not even his own name, but just

0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:51.040
<v Speaker 1>this in writing this Deep Injustice. It's a film that

0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:53.720
<v Speaker 1>I think doesn't need to worry too much about its

0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:58.920
<v Speaker 1>messaging because it's evolving from hundreds of thousands of years

0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:01.480
<v Speaker 1>old narrative. I don't know how old Amleth is, but

0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:05.359
<v Speaker 1>it I don't think Eggars is that concerned with like

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.199
<v Speaker 1>what you walk away with from this film, which is

0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:12.600
<v Speaker 1>interesting because it's his most narrative forward film, but because

0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:15.440
<v Speaker 1>he's so hyper focused on the history and the adaptation,

0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:17.679
<v Speaker 1>which you're really sort of left with, Like, man, that

0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Viking fight was cool, Like they fought on a volcano.

0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.359
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, that's effing sick. Or you know, you

0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.680
<v Speaker 1>get the moment with the sacrifice where he kills one

0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:32.040
<v Speaker 1>of the slave watchers in the hut and leaves the

0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:34.159
<v Speaker 1>body for the people diver. Oh my god, that was

0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:38.399
<v Speaker 1>really cool and graphic and wow, or you get, you know,

0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:41.399
<v Speaker 1>sort of this coupling with olga Anya's character in the woods,

0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:44.720
<v Speaker 1>which is really sort of serene and beautiful and a

0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:47.320
<v Speaker 1>lovely respite in the middle of all of this, like Gore,

0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:52.439
<v Speaker 1>and you really are moving from tonally being more about

0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:57.199
<v Speaker 1>the nature like he tonality before was really these woods

0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:00.719
<v Speaker 1>are spooky. Look at this thick fog. The ocean is roaring,

0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:06.000
<v Speaker 1>and it's giving you a lot of poetic artistic imagery. Okay, cool,

0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:10.240
<v Speaker 1>where this is really giving you the tonality of Shakespeare.

0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:13.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm having a hard time articulating exactly what I mean,

0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:16.400
<v Speaker 1>but I think it's just that the tone is more.

0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:20.320
<v Speaker 1>These motifs are really cool, and they have been applied

0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:22.840
<v Speaker 1>to a story that I'm familiar enough with I don't

0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:25.680
<v Speaker 1>have to really ask that many questions. The actors should

0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:29.119
<v Speaker 1>click in and know immediately like what the narrative is about.

0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:33.640
<v Speaker 1>And so we can move from through this well known narrative.

0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:37.760
<v Speaker 1>We just really heightened visual vibes. The Viking town was

0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:42.439
<v Speaker 1>really cool. This volcano setting is nope Iceland sparse, and

0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:46.240
<v Speaker 1>as they're building up this small community, it looks really.

0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Cool, which it really was filmed in Iceland too.

0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:51.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, given as much as we have talked about how

0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:54.639
<v Speaker 1>much we like atmosphere and how it's played, how do

0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.439
<v Speaker 1>you feel the absence of it affected your viewing of

0:23:57.440 --> 0:23:57.960
<v Speaker 1>this movie.

0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:01.959
<v Speaker 2>So I know a lot of people complain about, you know,

0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:05.880
<v Speaker 2>about the use of too much atmosphere because it does

0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:09.159
<v Speaker 2>make the story I guess feel like it drags personally,

0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:12.600
<v Speaker 2>that I think is what hooks me. Just because I'm

0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:16.840
<v Speaker 2>such a vibes person, I guess like I enjoy I

0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:21.880
<v Speaker 2>enjoy taking in all the vibes. I was definitely had

0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:25.880
<v Speaker 2>fun with the battle scenes that I wanted more of

0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:29.400
<v Speaker 2>the atmosphere. The scenes that I think felt most atmospheric

0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:31.440
<v Speaker 2>to me were, of course, like you said, the volcano

0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:34.760
<v Speaker 2>scene and the ocean and stuff like that. But also

0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:38.239
<v Speaker 2>I really enjoyed like the smaller scenes where it was

0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.359
<v Speaker 2>just a few actors, like the Shaman scene with William

0:24:41.400 --> 0:24:46.440
<v Speaker 2>Dafoe's character where they're doing like this kind of dinner animal. Yeah,

0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:49.639
<v Speaker 2>and then of course I really enjoyed the scene with Buorick.

0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:52.159
<v Speaker 2>Those are the scenes that stuck out the most to

0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:54.639
<v Speaker 2>me because I think that they were the most like

0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:59.280
<v Speaker 2>atmosphere heavy, the most vibes heavy to me. So I

0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:01.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of missed it in this movie. I kind of

0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:04.479
<v Speaker 2>I wanted more of it because I don't, you know,

0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:07.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't love you know, I'm not somebody who like

0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:09.560
<v Speaker 2>craves on screen violence so much.

0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:16.720
<v Speaker 1>I do. I love a bloody human, I think, especially

0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:20.320
<v Speaker 1>if I studied fight choreography in high school and college,

0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:22.760
<v Speaker 1>and I just always have such appreciation for people who

0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:25.439
<v Speaker 1>can do it and make it look real and like

0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:27.879
<v Speaker 1>when they're taking it to the blows from these swords,

0:25:27.960 --> 0:25:32.080
<v Speaker 1>oh god, it's the fight coordination is phenomenal in this film.

0:25:32.520 --> 0:25:35.280
<v Speaker 1>But to your point, when I think back about like

0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:41.320
<v Speaker 1>what scenes resonate the most to me, the most impactful scene,

0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:44.080
<v Speaker 1>it's probably him sneaking into his mom's room as an

0:25:44.080 --> 0:25:48.480
<v Speaker 1>adult to like confront her for the first time and realizing, oh,

0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:50.639
<v Speaker 1>this woman not only didn't love me, was absolutely in

0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:53.679
<v Speaker 1>cahoots to get my father killed. Like the devastation of

0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:57.600
<v Speaker 1>that sequence, the reality of it, the and again the

0:25:57.640 --> 0:25:59.840
<v Speaker 1>fact that it's to me Eggers's best in his bad

0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:02.679
<v Speaker 1>and nobody's doing any talking, you know what I mean.

0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Like, yeah, that is not the same thing. She seduces

0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:08.080
<v Speaker 2>him too, or tries to seduce him.

0:26:08.480 --> 0:26:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, But that's what I'm saying, Like, there's these

0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:19.280
<v Speaker 1>moments that for Edgars, it's it's the quieter, more intonated

0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:23.199
<v Speaker 1>space where you the viewwork can fill in gaps and

0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:28.080
<v Speaker 1>be appalled or struck by just a simple image, you know,

0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:33.360
<v Speaker 1>a treasured item on a desk we thought was lost forever,

0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:36.159
<v Speaker 1>or a look between mother and summer. We're like, what

0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:41.400
<v Speaker 1>is about to have? Why? Why this? It's man? I do?

0:26:41.520 --> 0:26:44.199
<v Speaker 1>I do wish we had more of that here. But

0:26:44.240 --> 0:26:47.600
<v Speaker 1>I also think a lot of people were pushing for

0:26:47.840 --> 0:26:53.040
<v Speaker 1>more commercially accessible work from Edgars coming off, because The

0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Lighthouse did have its fair share of folks who were like,

0:26:55.560 --> 0:26:59.679
<v Speaker 1>this is too weird, it's too much. But I like

0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:03.080
<v Speaker 1>about Northman is that we don't fully lose that. Though

0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:05.560
<v Speaker 1>we were talking before we started about that the level

0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:11.320
<v Speaker 1>of flatulence jokes still present in this film, and I

0:27:11.359 --> 0:27:14.040
<v Speaker 1>had mentioned that I thought that because Edgers is such

0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:18.399
<v Speaker 1>a history buff that perhaps this crude humor is a

0:27:18.440 --> 0:27:21.439
<v Speaker 1>reflection of the types of true humor we see and like,

0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:23.840
<v Speaker 1>there's a good Shakespeare line.

0:27:23.960 --> 0:27:28.680
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I believe that Edgar's studied at a Shakespeare

0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:30.600
<v Speaker 2>like a big Shakespeare college.

0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, he's a Shakespearean uh like scholar.

0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and the way I was looking for, Yeah.

0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:42.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's a Shakespearean scholar. Plus, you know, he reads

0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:43.920
<v Speaker 1>a lot of these things. And if you're reading old

0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:49.400
<v Speaker 1>plays or uh like, novellas and stuff like, especially things

0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:53.119
<v Speaker 1>though considering, okay, like for plays are for the masses, right,

0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:56.160
<v Speaker 1>so anybody poor rich can go see a play back

0:27:56.160 --> 0:27:59.240
<v Speaker 1>in the day. And then books tended to be you know,

0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:00.800
<v Speaker 1>you have to have a little education in order to

0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:03.359
<v Speaker 1>be able to read them. But anything that was made

0:28:03.440 --> 0:28:08.080
<v Speaker 1>for your common person typically had a ton of fart jokes.

0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:11.399
<v Speaker 1>Here's something from the Comedy of Errors from Shakespeare. If

0:28:11.440 --> 0:28:14.080
<v Speaker 1>you break anything, I'll break your foolish head. A man

0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:15.960
<v Speaker 1>may break a word with you, sir, and words are

0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:18.199
<v Speaker 1>but wind I and break it in your face, so

0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:20.280
<v Speaker 1>he break it not behind. I could break a word

0:28:20.280 --> 0:28:22.840
<v Speaker 1>with you, sir, and words are only wind.

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:28.520
<v Speaker 2>I just love that fart jokes are a continual source

0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:32.120
<v Speaker 2>of comedy throughout the course of human history. I guess

0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:33.600
<v Speaker 2>we've always just found them funny.

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:40.080
<v Speaker 1>We love crudeness. We really can't help ourselves. Okay, there

0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:44.000
<v Speaker 1>is a moment and another one Shakespeare's Pays where the

0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:45.600
<v Speaker 1>dog is going to be win for farting, but the

0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:47.480
<v Speaker 1>servant takes credit for the fart and so he gets

0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:53.080
<v Speaker 1>whipped instead. There's a line from King Lear where it says,

0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:56.840
<v Speaker 1>blow winds and crack your cheeks, rage and blow I

0:28:56.880 --> 0:29:03.400
<v Speaker 1>see you Shakespeare. Yeah, Lawrence talks about getting whipped in

0:29:03.440 --> 0:29:08.080
<v Speaker 1>two gentlemen from Verona. So yeah, the fire jokes are resplendent.

0:29:08.320 --> 0:29:11.320
<v Speaker 1>And I think there's an element of sort of old

0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:15.160
<v Speaker 1>school storytelling applied to all of Eggar's films that sort

0:29:15.200 --> 0:29:16.760
<v Speaker 1>of makes me think these films are going to be

0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:21.720
<v Speaker 1>accessible for the long run. Right, If you're constantly relaying

0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:26.080
<v Speaker 1>your stories based off history, there's a feeling that people

0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:27.960
<v Speaker 1>will want to be able to return to these because

0:29:27.960 --> 0:29:35.920
<v Speaker 1>these stories are eternal. I do wonder if in adapting

0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:41.720
<v Speaker 1>these stories, like if Eggars is bothering or even needs

0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:44.240
<v Speaker 1>to speak to a modern audience again us to something else.

0:29:44.280 --> 0:29:46.920
<v Speaker 1>Talk much more about Nosaratu, because I have lots of

0:29:46.920 --> 0:29:52.080
<v Speaker 1>thoughts on it, But with this one, I think I

0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:54.080
<v Speaker 1>sort of let it slide because I was very into

0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:57.520
<v Speaker 1>the Oh, it's Hamlet set in Viking times. It's based

0:29:57.520 --> 0:30:00.120
<v Speaker 1>off the play that inspired Hamlet, like all of that

0:30:00.240 --> 0:30:04.840
<v Speaker 1>was really working, and from an editation perspective, going back

0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:08.960
<v Speaker 1>to the original source text is vastly interesting. It sort

0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:13.400
<v Speaker 1>of gives much more life because so Ophelia destroys me

0:30:13.440 --> 0:30:15.800
<v Speaker 1>a little bit because she's like, I'm just very like

0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:18.520
<v Speaker 1>Ophilia has reasons to be sad. But in the play,

0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:22.080
<v Speaker 1>if you're not getting the backstory, that happens very fast,

0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:24.280
<v Speaker 1>you're really like, Wow, this girl is whiny and then

0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:27.560
<v Speaker 1>she just runs off and dies. It's so sad. I

0:30:27.640 --> 0:30:31.200
<v Speaker 1>love the idea of the Ophilia type character being like

0:30:32.520 --> 0:30:37.320
<v Speaker 1>a witch who has helped entrap slavers that escaped and

0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.360
<v Speaker 1>has a hot, hunky husband. Good for you, girl, you

0:30:39.440 --> 0:30:42.960
<v Speaker 1>get it. And now twins, what a look she made it.

0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:45.120
<v Speaker 2>I love that he loves to put twins in his

0:30:45.240 --> 0:30:45.880
<v Speaker 2>movies too.

0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:46.960
<v Speaker 3>It.

0:30:47.800 --> 0:30:49.800
<v Speaker 1>We'll talk more about ones when we get back. Really

0:30:49.880 --> 0:31:03.600
<v Speaker 1>a quick break and we'll be right back, okay, And

0:31:03.640 --> 0:31:07.840
<v Speaker 1>we're back. Twins. Yeah, we know Robert Egger has twin siblings.

0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:11.280
<v Speaker 1>I love that they're always just popping up. It seems

0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:15.280
<v Speaker 1>like such a lovely nod to them. Twins in different

0:31:15.320 --> 0:31:19.560
<v Speaker 1>pieces of old fiction are either they're like weird to

0:31:19.680 --> 0:31:23.880
<v Speaker 1>older what's up with these twins? They're so rare, like

0:31:23.920 --> 0:31:27.400
<v Speaker 1>are they connected? Are they a bad omen? A good

0:31:27.440 --> 0:31:29.960
<v Speaker 1>omen And I sort of love the way he uses

0:31:30.040 --> 0:31:34.080
<v Speaker 1>them throughout in The Witch. They are creepy and unnerving

0:31:34.280 --> 0:31:37.280
<v Speaker 1>and you kind of never know what they're gonna do here.

0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:41.000
<v Speaker 1>They seem like a positive, like auspicious omen for the

0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:44.640
<v Speaker 1>future of this land. That by getting this revenge and

0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:47.560
<v Speaker 1>taking out this evil man and this like not great kingdom,

0:31:47.600 --> 0:31:51.920
<v Speaker 1>you sort of give positive life and space to the

0:31:51.960 --> 0:31:54.840
<v Speaker 1>surrounding communities. And they have a new leader and they

0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:57.040
<v Speaker 1>have a good mother, and so we won't deal with

0:31:57.080 --> 0:32:00.160
<v Speaker 1>the same kind of trauma we had before. And maybe

0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:02.160
<v Speaker 1>maybe that's what Egress was going for. He was like,

0:32:02.160 --> 0:32:03.800
<v Speaker 1>you know what we could really be doing here is

0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:07.720
<v Speaker 1>solving our family trauma by killing it. Just just kill

0:32:07.760 --> 0:32:09.720
<v Speaker 1>your family's trauma.

0:32:10.880 --> 0:32:12.400
<v Speaker 2>No, I agree, I could definitely see that.

0:32:13.080 --> 0:32:16.760
<v Speaker 1>I think maybe we can count the twins as atmosphere.

0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:18.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, another thing I wanted to talk to you

0:32:19.000 --> 0:32:21.760
<v Speaker 1>a little bit about was we've talked about the dollhouse

0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:27.400
<v Speaker 1>element throughout his films. In Here, you know, we get

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:32.360
<v Speaker 1>these larger lande I think the Viking Village, the first

0:32:32.360 --> 0:32:35.720
<v Speaker 1>one that we sort of explore is it's definitely part

0:32:35.760 --> 0:32:40.160
<v Speaker 1>of the dollhouse. It has the same hovering, sort of

0:32:40.840 --> 0:32:43.640
<v Speaker 1>floaty camera that we get in the opening shots of

0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:48.280
<v Speaker 1>the lighthouse to sort of explore what's happening in this community.

0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:51.600
<v Speaker 1>And I find it interesting that if the dollhouse is

0:32:51.680 --> 0:32:58.640
<v Speaker 1>meant to be a confining structure that leads to a

0:32:58.680 --> 0:33:03.960
<v Speaker 1>building of ten, is that lost when we have so

0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:07.360
<v Speaker 1>many dollhouses. The Icelandic Village, the original sort of Germanic

0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:12.840
<v Speaker 1>Viking village, and maybe the Witch's Hut are sort of

0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:17.360
<v Speaker 1>the most distinct dollhouses I can't think of in here.

0:33:17.440 --> 0:33:20.160
<v Speaker 1>Maybe the opening the castle at the top. You get

0:33:20.200 --> 0:33:22.440
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of it there, but again you're there

0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:26.120
<v Speaker 1>for such a short time. I wonder if this also

0:33:26.320 --> 0:33:28.400
<v Speaker 1>is part of the loss of atmosphere, Is that by

0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 1>opening up his world so much, what do we lose

0:33:33.000 --> 0:33:34.080
<v Speaker 1>from him?

0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:39.360
<v Speaker 2>I think what I concluded after watching this movie is

0:33:39.600 --> 0:33:45.520
<v Speaker 2>that Robert Eggers is at his best when he does

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:50.760
<v Speaker 2>things very small and no hate to you know, all

0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:53.440
<v Speaker 2>of the cool, the cool scenes that we go to,

0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:55.200
<v Speaker 2>all of the cool sets that we go to, and

0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:57.560
<v Speaker 2>all of the battle scenes and all of that. I

0:33:57.640 --> 0:34:00.000
<v Speaker 2>just think, as he has said in his own words,

0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:03.960
<v Speaker 2>it's after the Lighthouse came out, before the Northmen came out.

0:34:04.400 --> 0:34:10.440
<v Speaker 2>He said that his stories are about telling simple stories.

0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:14.160
<v Speaker 2>And I really think that that is his strong suit,

0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:17.719
<v Speaker 2>is telling these small, simple stories that are kind of

0:34:17.760 --> 0:34:23.560
<v Speaker 2>contained within a single dollhouse or two dollhouses or whatever.

0:34:23.920 --> 0:34:27.600
<v Speaker 2>I think Once he starts to expand the dollhouses and

0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:32.080
<v Speaker 2>has multiple of them, we lose the atmosphere, we lose

0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:36.359
<v Speaker 2>kind of the simpleness of what I think makes his

0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:40.960
<v Speaker 2>work so good. And for me, that's just what I

0:34:40.960 --> 0:34:43.800
<v Speaker 2>remember thinking to myself as like, Wow, this guy really

0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:46.319
<v Speaker 2>does his best stuff with a small budget, with a

0:34:46.360 --> 0:34:51.200
<v Speaker 2>few actors in like a couple of locations, versus I

0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:52.920
<v Speaker 2>agree the big stuff.

0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:56.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think The Northman it's like a good It's first,

0:34:56.480 --> 0:34:58.400
<v Speaker 1>it's like a ninety percent on Rotten Tomatoes. It's is

0:34:58.480 --> 0:35:00.000
<v Speaker 1>a good movie. I don't want anyone to walk up.

0:35:00.440 --> 0:35:03.840
<v Speaker 1>I didn't like it. I enjoy this movie. I just

0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:07.160
<v Speaker 1>think for the things that Eggers brings to the table

0:35:07.200 --> 0:35:10.440
<v Speaker 1>that excites me as a director. I just feel like

0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:12.040
<v Speaker 1>anybody could have directed the Northman.

0:35:12.520 --> 0:35:14.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's a very good way.

0:35:14.080 --> 0:35:19.360
<v Speaker 1>I know. It doesn't feel like oh Eggers here, he

0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:22.520
<v Speaker 1>is present in his bag. I just feel like any

0:35:22.560 --> 0:35:25.800
<v Speaker 1>Hollywood director with you know, a fair amount of knowledge

0:35:26.480 --> 0:35:30.319
<v Speaker 1>on filmmaking could come up with a decent version of

0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:31.200
<v Speaker 1>this story.

0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:36.120
<v Speaker 2>And absolutely, I.

0:35:34.920 --> 0:35:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I understand that he was passionate about it. But

0:35:37.440 --> 0:35:41.040
<v Speaker 1>I think what really makes both The Lighthouse and The

0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:43.719
<v Speaker 1>Witch work for me is like these are films with

0:35:43.840 --> 0:35:48.200
<v Speaker 1>like immediate narratives, right, They're really like the Witch narrative

0:35:48.280 --> 0:35:54.000
<v Speaker 1>is yes, old and inspired by history, but continuously things

0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:56.120
<v Speaker 1>we're seeing today. And I think specifically, I feel like

0:35:56.200 --> 0:35:59.319
<v Speaker 1>like Instagram culture around the time that movie comes out,

0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:02.160
<v Speaker 1>like there's a lot of prevalent messaging. I think The

0:36:02.280 --> 0:36:07.520
<v Speaker 1>Lighthouse a ton of prevalent messaging about toxic masculinity, about

0:36:08.400 --> 0:36:12.600
<v Speaker 1>how men interact with one another. Here. Again, it's a

0:36:12.640 --> 0:36:14.520
<v Speaker 1>fine story, it's what we've seen a lot, But I

0:36:14.600 --> 0:36:17.600
<v Speaker 1>just don't feel the kind of urgency in the storytelling,

0:36:18.120 --> 0:36:20.360
<v Speaker 1>and while that maybe isn't effective for all people, it

0:36:20.400 --> 0:36:24.359
<v Speaker 1>certainly diminishes a bit for me the watching experience.

0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, agreed, No, I agree completely. I think I think, like,

0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:32.000
<v Speaker 2>just like you said, any director could have made this movie,

0:36:32.040 --> 0:36:34.080
<v Speaker 2>because there's there's not a whole lot about it that

0:36:34.120 --> 0:36:37.000
<v Speaker 2>feels like it has that Eggor's stamp on it. You know,

0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:40.040
<v Speaker 2>there's a few themes that I think kind of carry

0:36:40.040 --> 0:36:43.279
<v Speaker 2>over from the other movies. But I do feel like

0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:48.240
<v Speaker 2>this could have easily been any other big Hollywood director,

0:36:48.960 --> 0:36:49.279
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:36:49.280 --> 0:36:53.120
<v Speaker 1>A grade. Yeah, so the Northman, you know, I think

0:36:53.520 --> 0:36:55.920
<v Speaker 1>I encourage people to watch it. I think it's fun.

0:36:56.000 --> 0:36:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about where you rate it amongst the film

0:37:00.400 --> 0:37:04.600
<v Speaker 1>thus far to close out. Okay, yeah, so you were

0:37:04.640 --> 0:37:08.520
<v Speaker 1>saying this is your least favorite of the Eggs direct.

0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes, but again I don't hate it. I think it

0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:12.480
<v Speaker 2>was no watch.

0:37:12.600 --> 0:37:17.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I think it would just be at the bottom, right.

0:37:17.200 --> 0:37:19.480
<v Speaker 2>And if I wrote a list it honestly, it goes

0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:22.760
<v Speaker 2>in chronological order. From me, My favorite is The Witch,

0:37:23.080 --> 0:37:26.400
<v Speaker 2>than the Lighthouse, and then The Northmen and then I

0:37:26.440 --> 0:37:30.000
<v Speaker 2>haven't seen No Saratu yet, but I'm excited for it.

0:37:30.320 --> 0:37:32.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna hold my no Saratu reading until we get

0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:36.360
<v Speaker 1>to know Su. But I think my most favorite is

0:37:36.360 --> 0:37:38.880
<v Speaker 1>definitely The Witch. Then I do think The Northman is

0:37:38.920 --> 0:37:40.799
<v Speaker 1>second favorite. And here's why. I don't think it's a

0:37:40.840 --> 0:37:43.799
<v Speaker 1>better film than the Lighthouse, but for me, it's an

0:37:43.800 --> 0:37:47.239
<v Speaker 1>easier watch. I don't love people fighting again. I love

0:37:47.280 --> 0:37:51.440
<v Speaker 1>blood and sling a sword, sure, but like direct, intense, emotional,

0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:56.799
<v Speaker 1>your face fighting gives me anxiety. Yeah, And well, I

0:37:56.800 --> 0:38:01.200
<v Speaker 1>think the it's a much more am vicious and probably

0:38:01.239 --> 0:38:05.319
<v Speaker 1>overall successful film the Lighthouse is. And by ambitious I

0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:07.799
<v Speaker 1>mean putting two actors in a room and trying to

0:38:07.840 --> 0:38:10.440
<v Speaker 1>get a plus performances out of both of them and

0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:12.680
<v Speaker 1>bring an audience to theaters to watch that. And it's

0:38:12.680 --> 0:38:14.799
<v Speaker 1>in black and white and a weird aspect ratio, Like

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:18.520
<v Speaker 1>all of that stuff is dangerous and risky, and it's

0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:22.680
<v Speaker 1>definitely something that investors and studios would pause before, you know,

0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:27.600
<v Speaker 1>launching into. Whereas The Northman vikings big sets, historic epic

0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:30.600
<v Speaker 1>that's a little bit easier to sell because audiences are

0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:34.560
<v Speaker 1>much more familiar with it. So even though the production

0:38:34.640 --> 0:38:38.200
<v Speaker 1>wise that was more ambitious, I think on a creativity

0:38:38.320 --> 0:38:41.520
<v Speaker 1>level less so but it's fun to watch. I can

0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:43.040
<v Speaker 1>whip it out with my dad, you kind of. It's

0:38:43.080 --> 0:38:44.440
<v Speaker 1>one of those movies I love having on in the

0:38:44.480 --> 0:38:46.880
<v Speaker 1>background when I'm working because every time you look up,

0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:51.320
<v Speaker 1>the screen is just so beautiful. I really really appreciate

0:38:51.320 --> 0:38:54.839
<v Speaker 1>the use of natural colors. It's a weird thing to

0:38:54.960 --> 0:38:58.280
<v Speaker 1>say all films are colorized, but there's something that feels

0:38:58.360 --> 0:39:00.640
<v Speaker 1>so like the night sky, and this movie feels like

0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:05.000
<v Speaker 1>a jewel, like it's so beautiful. And I think when

0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:07.600
<v Speaker 1>they use natural elements like fire and is like everything

0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:09.360
<v Speaker 1>just feels like you can feel the heat. It's like

0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:14.399
<v Speaker 1>alive and present. Like cinematography is gorgeous. And even though

0:39:14.400 --> 0:39:16.800
<v Speaker 1>there are fart jokes and somebody drinks pea, it happens

0:39:16.800 --> 0:39:20.920
<v Speaker 1>intermittently and it is not the whole effing film like Lighthouse,

0:39:20.920 --> 0:39:23.920
<v Speaker 1>White House. We're masturbating, we're shitting. Oh, there's shit blowing

0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:26.000
<v Speaker 1>in the wind. I can't with the light. The Lighthouse

0:39:26.120 --> 0:39:28.200
<v Speaker 1>grosses me out, even though I do think it's so good.

0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:29.280
<v Speaker 2>It's gross.

0:39:29.560 --> 0:39:32.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's disgusting. So I put it on for a second,

0:39:32.360 --> 0:39:35.359
<v Speaker 1>but only because the disgusting factor of the Lighthouse. It's

0:39:36.360 --> 0:39:39.200
<v Speaker 1>it's a tad too far for me to watching on

0:39:39.280 --> 0:39:42.719
<v Speaker 1>the regular, But yeah, you know, I think this is

0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:45.680
<v Speaker 1>a good showing by Eggers. I think by pushing himself

0:39:45.680 --> 0:39:47.959
<v Speaker 1>and showing he's capable of handling a lot of these things,

0:39:47.960 --> 0:39:50.920
<v Speaker 1>that gives him a lot of leverage for future career moves,

0:39:51.320 --> 0:39:53.640
<v Speaker 1>which is good. And I think it's something he needed

0:39:53.680 --> 0:39:55.440
<v Speaker 1>to get off of his plate. I think a lot

0:39:55.520 --> 0:40:00.799
<v Speaker 1>of especially historically inclined theater inclined people, at some point

0:40:00.840 --> 0:40:03.920
<v Speaker 1>are always like, what am I tackling Shakespeare? How am

0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:05.319
<v Speaker 1>I gonna do it? What was that gonna look right?

0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:08.319
<v Speaker 1>Am I gonna do it? And what? He found a

0:40:08.440 --> 0:40:12.839
<v Speaker 1>unique way to bring that to audiences that was fun

0:40:12.880 --> 0:40:14.680
<v Speaker 1>and again challenged him, and so I think all of

0:40:14.760 --> 0:40:17.080
<v Speaker 1>that worked. I'm excited to see knows for raw Tu

0:40:17.520 --> 0:40:19.799
<v Speaker 1>and what he has to sort of say about it.

0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:23.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm excited to hear Jason and Rosie's thoughts on it. So, yeah,

0:40:23.239 --> 0:40:27.279
<v Speaker 1>let us know your thoughts on the North men, would

0:40:27.320 --> 0:40:28.800
<v Speaker 1>love to hear from you. Let us know how you

0:40:28.800 --> 0:40:32.440
<v Speaker 1>guys are. Oh that part too, Yes, let us know

0:40:32.440 --> 0:40:34.440
<v Speaker 1>your rankings and let us know your feelings overall on

0:40:34.640 --> 0:40:37.800
<v Speaker 1>just this retrospective we've had a really good time, Carmen,

0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:39.160
<v Speaker 1>I love doing this with you.

0:40:39.920 --> 0:40:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I enjoy being

0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:46.240
<v Speaker 2>two cinema cinema nerds together, so.

0:40:48.120 --> 0:40:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Well. Join us back here tomorrow for our review of

0:40:50.960 --> 0:40:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Lord of the Rings The Ward or hear them Wednesday,

0:40:53.320 --> 0:40:55.000
<v Speaker 1>the extras are back together for a wrapup of the

0:40:55.000 --> 0:40:57.200
<v Speaker 1>best video games of twenty twenty four, and later in

0:40:57.239 --> 0:41:00.440
<v Speaker 1>the week we will be continuing our coverage of Scaleton

0:41:00.719 --> 0:41:04.560
<v Speaker 1>Crew be Advised, Ghiltin Recrue releases on two holidays back

0:41:04.600 --> 0:41:07.680
<v Speaker 1>to back, so scheduling's gonna get a little lunky, but listen,

0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:09.960
<v Speaker 1>we love Star Wars. We're gonna be covering every episode,

0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:13.440
<v Speaker 1>so stay tuned for all of those. That's the episode.

0:41:13.440 --> 0:41:14.200
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening.

0:41:15.080 --> 0:41:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Bye.

0:41:16.239 --> 0:41:24.840
<v Speaker 3>B X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kitsumsion and

0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:29.120
<v Speaker 3>Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our

0:41:29.160 --> 0:41:33.400
<v Speaker 3>executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising

0:41:33.440 --> 0:41:38.160
<v Speaker 3>producer is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent

0:41:38.920 --> 0:41:42.560
<v Speaker 3>and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.

0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:47.280
<v Speaker 2>Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord. Kenny Goodman

0:41:47.680 --> 0:41:49.719
<v Speaker 2>and Heidi on discoord Moderata