WEBVTT - #141 Jason Flom with Pierre Rushing 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:04.600 In the early morning of April fifteenth, twenty eleven, Dwan 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.360 Taylor stole an iPod for an Oakland drug dealer named 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:11.520 c Two of his other customers, Patrick Smith and Robert Green, 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.480 gave Sea a ride in search of the iPod thief. 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.920 They spotted mister Taylor pulled up next to him, and 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.680 See proceeded to shoot and kill him Over this trivial slight. 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:24.720 Nearly a week would go by before Robert Green would 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.920 offer cops information and an uncertain description of the shooter. 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:31.720 A few weeks and several descriptions later, Green would claim 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.600 to have seen s wearing a red hat. A few 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.920 days after that, police would approach Pierre Rushing, a man 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.479 who had never been known as Sea, but wearing a 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:44.480 red hat. They'd bring Pierre's juvie photo and his name 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:47.280 to Robert Green, who went on to identify him as 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:52.239 the shooter, despite a solid alibi, no physical evidence whatsoever, 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:58.000 or anything to corroborate Robert Green's highly questionable identification. Pierre 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:02.400 Rushing's burgeoning rap career and promising future we're stolen by 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:06.880 Green and the criminal legal system. He's currently serving fifty 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.759 to life for a frivolous and tragic crime committed by 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.240 a drug dealer named C. Patrick. Smith has since signed 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:17.000 Affi Davis and testified to Pierre's innocence, and another of 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.600 C's customers that night has bravely set a legal name 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:23.560 to the culprit, and even though mister Rushing did not 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.640 name see, we have censored his name from this episode 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:31.039 for mister Rushing's safety. Meanwhile, the state of California continues 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.920 to ignore evidence of Pierre's actual innocence and to fight 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:39.800 his honest attempts to regain his freedom. This is Wrongful 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:53.560 Conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.360 Jason Flamm. That's me and today we're going to tell 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.520 you about the case of Pierre Rushing. We'll speak with 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.120 one of his post conviction attorney's, Marvin Lou as well 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.440 as taking a call from Kern Valley Correction in California 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:10.000 to hear from Pierre himself. This is Globaltallenge. You have 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.280 a free TOOD call from your MUSHA. 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.640 This call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded. 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:19.760 To accept this call, sing. 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:27.000 Or dial five now. Thank you for using globaltal Link Hello, 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:31.440 good morning, Good morning. I'm glad you're here. I mean, 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.160 I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances, but I'm definitely 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.600 glad you're here. I know we have limited times, so 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:39.760 let's get right into it. Today's episode, we're going to 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:41.520 tell the story of the man we have on the 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.600 phone now, Pierre Rushing, who's serving fifty years. The Nightmare 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.880 starts on April fifteen, twenty eleven, at three forty five 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.240 am when there's a murder. But let's go back to 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.240 your childhood, because you had a difficult upbringing and you 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:57.520 were coming out of that and building a career in 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.720 music when it all went haywire in California. 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.400 My father was a assentee and then out of prison, 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.120 smart was addicted crack cocaine. So I don't want to 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.160 say like any other Oakland kids, but I mean a 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.160 lot of kids in the in the that grew up 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.720 in the nineties were just products of our environment. We 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.600 grew up looking at things that we believed to be right. 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.440 So we actually mature, we get to see that they 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:22.320 were really wrong. 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:24.000 And how did you get into music. 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:27.560 My auntie used to work for she Swet. Her name 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.360 was Tracy Rush and she since passed in twenty thirteen, 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.799 but just being around her, she took me un her wing, 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.360 just taking me to the studio with her as I 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.400 became addicted to you. 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.360 Is it fair to say by twenty eleven things were 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.640 starting to look up for you in terms of possibly 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:46.440 building a career. 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:50.120 And yeah, when I was arrested for this case, actually 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.680 friends of mine has said that the police were looking 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.240 for me for this time, and we all laughed about 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.200 it because everybody knew that I couldn't have done it. 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:00.480 I had been wrapping and going to the student sak 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.240 assist Is shooting videos. And actually when I was arrest 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:06.560 I was open up for Bay Area Ledge by the 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:11.400 name of surname Queen, and we had a big four 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.839 van with my patriots on and promoting my music and everything. So, yeah, 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:17.200 it was coming up for me. 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.320 Yeah, you were on exactly, You're on your way up. 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:27.560 And then everything went completely haywire. Now let's turn the 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:31.760 conversation to Marvin Lou. Marvin is a criminal defense attorney 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:35.880 of some repute, and he has been representing Pierre for 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.520 some time. Now, let's just paint a picture of what happened. 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.880 The date was April fifteenth, twenty eleven, and what happened 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.960 was two individuals by the name of Patrick Smith and 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.760 Robert Green. We're doing crack cocaine for the day and 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.919 a half leading up to this young man's killing, and 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.600 Patrick Smith and Robert Green went to an apartment in 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:01.760 Oakland to purchase more crack Cocaineatrick Smith was driving, Robert 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.640 Green stayed in the car while Patrick Smith went up 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:09.240 to the apartment to purchase more drugs. So Patrick Smith 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.120 meets up with his drug dealer. Patrick Smith knows him 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.920 as s the letter C who is the actual person 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:20.600 responsible for the murder of Dewane Taylor. While Patrick Smith 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.800 was in the apartment, there were several other people present, 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:29.080 and mister Taylor left the apartment Shortly after mister Taylor left. 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:33.440 Then sees iPod turned up missing and someone in the 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:39.080 apartment said that mister Taylor had taken sees iPod. What 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:44.360 happened next was Patrick Smith, the shooter, se and another 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:47.159 individual who was also charged as a co defendant named 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.400 Andre Morris. They all left the apartment and went and 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.880 got in Patrick Smith's car to go find mister Taylor, 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:59.360 who had allegedly taken sees iPod. Robert Green was waiting 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.480 in the carting in the front passenger seat. So pat 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.480 Smith drives around the corner. They see mister Taylor walking 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:10.760 down the street and see or Andre Morris. Pat Smith 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.800 wasn't sure which told him to stop the car. S 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.720 and Andre Morris got out of the car, confronted mister Taylor, 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.640 and see shot and killed mister Taylor on the sidewalk 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.880 in front of a fast food restaurant. They then got 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.839 back into the car. Pat Smith drove a short distance. 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:30.920 Both c and mister Morris got out of the car 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:35.000 and ran away. So that's the factual backdrop for this thing. 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.280 Follow along here because Pierre, who were on the phone 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.880 with now had no connection to viction, no knowledge of 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:44.360 the actual perpetrator, and he was at his grandmother's at 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.440 the time with a young lady named Lauren Richardson on 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.520 the time and date of the murder. Have you ever 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:52.960 had a nickname of ce before it? Never? 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.440 Never, I've always went by the name of stink Or. 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.000 People from my neighborhood used to call me Peace thanked 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.840 me for my first Mspierre have never never went by 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:03.440 the nam Sea. 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.640 So what happened. How did you end up getting wrong 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:08.600 with convicted here? 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.000 Well, one of the passes is Robert Green. He goes 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.239 to the police n five days after he allegedly sees 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.760 this crime, and he tells them that he's seen as 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:20.720 murdering a guy named see commissed this murder. He gives 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.960 the police multiple different descriptions. I believe his first description 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.520 is five a light skin, one hundred and twenty pounds. 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.240 I haven't been one hundred and twenty pounds since I 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.760 was eighteen years old, let alone at nineteen years old, 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.880 and I'm not light skin. The second time I sees 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.160 the police, he switches it up again. So allegedly he 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.680 says he sees seat on April thirties, which would have 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.800 been fifteen days after the crime, and he went back 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:45.680 to the police and said, you know what, I lied again. 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:50.720 I believe he was six foot two, brown skin, and 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.240 it had on red shirt and a red hat. I'm 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:54.960 not sure what kind of lineup they were showing me, 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.960 but he still couldn't identify who they believed to be seen. 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.080 The police seen an area that he said that he 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:07.240 had seen seeing. I believe it was May third, wearing 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.400 a red hat, and they stopped me. And when they 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.200 stopped me, they said, what is your name? I don't 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.720 lie to the police. Year Russian is my name. I say, hey, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:16.480 we're looking for a guy and beat a guy up. 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:18.920 I haven't beaten the guy up. And then they leave 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.840 when they take that name back to I believe Robert Green, 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:24.840 who was at the police station and they shown my 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.440 picture four days after he's seen a guy with a 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:29.600 red hat. He said, you know what, he had asked Bessie, 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.880 And that's how the whole way of his spawned them 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:34.800 looking for a guy with a red had four days 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:36.640 after the Robert gif he's seen this. 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.000 Guy and a month after the crime. When they first 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.760 questioned you, they wanted to know what you were doing 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:44.240 on the day of the crime. But when they were 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.320 asking you this question, it was already five weeks later, right, 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.680 And this is a trick that they use. Sometimes you're like, 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.600 you're supposed to remember exactly, Like I don't ask anybody 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.160 in the audience right now, what were you doing. Let's 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.040 go back thirty five days from whatever day you're listening 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:00.840 to this. Tell me right now what you were doing 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.120 at a particular time on that day. And I'll give 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.319 you a dollar because that's impossible, but it is very 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.680 effective because then they can say you lied, because there's 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:11.800 no way anyone could possibly remember that unless it was 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.000 their birthday or some other like really important day. 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.920 Right April fifteenth, as he would have it is my 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.720 father's birthday. So without me even thinking, you say April fifteen, Hey, 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:23.679 there's nothing I was with my dad. I seen my 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:27.440 dad on his birthday, not one time at any trial 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.360 transcript police evidence toward these themery do they ever say 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.640 where were you three forty five a m. So if 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.800 they say no, you weren't with your dad. I also 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.160 remember that I had a traffic shot that day and 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.560 they went checked and it showed that I was on 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:42.280 the truth, but they said Noah, not at that time. 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.440 It took me, i believe my attorney, for about a 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:47.800 week to jog in my memory to figure out where 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:50.840 did I sleep at three forty five am that morning? 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.199 And I remembered it was my grandma. So I was 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.520 because my mom came to me that morning and said, 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:57.720 where are you going to get your dad for his birthday? 0:09:58.400 --> 0:09:59.839 That's how I was able to put the piece of 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:02.520 it a pleasure together, but by that time it was trial, 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.360 so they looked at it as if, oh, this is 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.120 a third alibi. Well, no, I've given you everywhere I 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.720 went from April fifteenth, and so that's how they played it, 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:15.600 which is very nefarious because they see that I was 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:17.960 trying to tell them everything at. 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.680 The time that this crime was committed at three forty 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.040 five in the morning. Now we know what you were 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.920 doing when you were supposedly out shooting somebody who you 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.480 never knew and don't know and still don't know and 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:29.120 never will know. 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.480 Well, April fourteenth, I was shooting a video. If you 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:34.319 go on YouTube right now, the song was called Young 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:38.079 Stank Take a Trip. Lauren Richison was associate of the 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:42.000 camera man helped shoot the video. She was also my 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:48.720 girlfriend April fourteenth, going in table fifteen, she came to 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:53.480 my grandma, talked roughly about nine forty five rounds ten o'clock, 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.280 and we spend the night. We enjoy each other's company. 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:59.040 We deal with any other boys for their girlfriend. 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:02.439 Hello. 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:06.040 My name is Lauren Richardson. I am an Oakland resident 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:11.160 and current legal apprentice. I entered the field with a 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.360 lot of motivation from the tragic situation that happened with 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:20.600 Pierre Rushing. I originally was into video. On April fourteenth, 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.760 Pierre went to shoot a video. It's called take a Trip. 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.240 We were super excited because he has so much support 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.240 from our neighborhood. Everybody knew he was a great rapper, 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.439 so when he finally shot the video, we were super excited. 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.160 We went back to his grandmother's house afterwards just to 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:40.680 kind of recap, and we stayed up all night watching movies, laughing, 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.840 making plans for the future. We you know, did what 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:47.120 couples do late night, and I left early in the 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.120 morning because I had to take my son to school. 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.960 And it was some weeks after that he kind of disappeared, 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.760 you know, when somebody else found me and was like, 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:02.800 you know, he's in jail. I'm like what, because I 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.439 was kind of mad, you know I was. I thought 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:09.360 he ghosted me, to be honest, so it was no 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.480 way that he could have committed the crime. I have 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:19.160 never felt as powerless as I felt in this situation 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:25.160 to express reality and be believed, and you know, this 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.439 huge power structure for them to be able to create 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.760 a false reality, like even with the witness, the witness 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.600 is not a credible witness, nowhere near as credible as 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.199 I am, because I'm not going to go perjure myself. 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:39.680 I'm not going to risk my life to keep a 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.600 killer out of jail. So for me to go up 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.160 there in front of all of these people and for 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.679 them to not take my word for it when they 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.319 had no other evidence, it bothers me to this day. 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:52.800 It's a big part of the motivation for me to 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:57.080 go into this apprenticeship program because I want to learn 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.000 how to speak up for other people who can't speak 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.880 for themselves, because this has to stop. They ruined an 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:03.640 entire family. 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.559 The idea that we in this country can sent in 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.600 somebody like you, a promising young man with his life 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.440 ahead of him, to fifty years based on the testimony 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:19.720 of an admitted crackhead. It was up for two days 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:23.600 or changed the story four times, really should make everybody 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.120 a little scared. Yeah, can you tell us a little 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:28.960 bit about the trial itself. 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.120 The killing is on camera. When I heard they had 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.440 it on camera, I'm starting to kick my feet up 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.559 and just wait for the trial days because I'm like, 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.440 it's on camera. I'm going on. I never in a 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.200 million years imagined that the camera would be low quality 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.720 or you really can't see anything on the camera. You 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.120 see a vehicle pull up and it's just graining, so 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.240 you can't really see anything. And I remember my heart 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:56.520 just dropping because I knew that that was what was 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:00.680 supposed to exonerate me. They had no evidence, no cor 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.080 no no physical They have the murdered vehicle with twelve 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.080 fingerprints inside the car and said I got in and 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.079 out of that car four times. None of the fingerprints 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.840 mats made. One of the prosecution's witness was a lady 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.040 by the name of the Carli smith Orf. She witnessed 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.440 the crime her and pass men for best friends. She 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.520 had been in that car the week before when the 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.080 police forensic pathologists became to call on every twenty second 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.640 they found to call his fingerprints in that car. Therefore, 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.840 when she testified she hadn't been in the car seven 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.360 days prior to the killing, that means that the car 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.480 couldn't have possibly been wiped down. And if the car 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.760 wasn't wiped down, and you found twelve to fourteenth fingerprints 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.240 in that car. Per Robert Green's testimony, I got in 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.160 and out of that car four times, and I killed 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:43.480 this guy with no glove. Why an't wear my fingerprints 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.840 on the car? Second, if Robert Green is to believe, 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:49.520 why would you ever call me five day lights skin 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.240 one hundred and twenty pounds? Why would you ever change 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.280 it to five ten one hundred and sixty pounds. In 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:57.800 that preliminary hearing when the judge allowed me to leave 0:14:57.840 --> 0:14:59.880 the car room, they brought Robert Green in. They said, 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.560 could you please describe to kill it? This guy switched 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.520 it up to six to two hundred and twenty pounds. 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.240 This guy's not to be believed. He was addicted to cracking. 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.280 Heroon said he had been up for two days off 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:15.280 cracking Airon. I had to be insially seven time failing. Third, 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.280 you have to call the smith another prosecutions with us. 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:20.560 I didn't see him. I don't know who that is. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.360 Well, yeah, I mean our standard in this country is 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.760 supposed to be reasonable doubt and this goes way beyond 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:27.600 that standard. 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.760 I had hope that you know, I would be exaggerated. 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.520 And did you have proper representation? Now? 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:35.480 I went to a trial with a POS defender, and 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.000 I went speedy trial. I was arrested in May. I 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.560 was a convicted and all this, and the reason I 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.880 went speedy truck because I felt like I had nothing odd. 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.720 I didn't do it. So while when I wait where 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.640 I see in my counting people wait four or five 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:49.760 years to fight the case because they're trying to wait 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.000 for the better deal. The first day of trial, I 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.200 remember the judge saying something like, hey, I know the 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.040 DA is going to give you a deal. She looked 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.040 to your left, get a deal because I know that 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:00.960 he's going to give you one. And I just remember 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.600 shaking my head, no, no, no, because why would I 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.160 take time for something if I didn't do it. They 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.840 know I'm not seen, so they want to know if 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:10.800 what we call in the urban community, if I'm going 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.680 to snitch, I know a lot of seas. That's that's 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.160 the one for two. It's not my job to do 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.120 the police a job for them, you know. So if 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.320 I wasn't there, what do you expect me to do? 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:22.840 Or maybe it could have been this guy, Maybe it 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:24.720 could beat this guy. If I do that, I'm worse 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:29.560 than Robert Green because you were not there and they 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:31.640 know that and they feed off that. 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.200 Yeah, jailhouse snitches has just sort of become like standard 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:36.240 operating procedure. 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.920 Correct. It's a nightmare. It is a living nightmare. But 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:40.960 that was that was the summ of the trail. 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.080 Yeah, that is a nightmare scenario. So the jury goes 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.280 out when they came back in, what was that moment 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.800 like when they actually found guilty of a crime you 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:51.400 didn't commit. 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.320 When they came back with it, it was It was 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.920 weird because the whole trial, I had twenty to thirty 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:05.159 people every single day of my trial, friends from the neighborhood, family, girlfriend, associates. 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.840 But on that day, nobody was in the courtroom, not 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:13.600 even the victim's family, nobody from my family. That was 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.440 just like a sense of loneliness, assensan like me against 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:18.439 the world because you're sitting here convicted me for a 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.879 crime that I didn't commit, and I know that you 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.359 know I didn't commit this crime. And I couldn't even 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.600 look back to look in the eyes of my mother, 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.000 my father, and my grandmother, and I felt like that 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.360 was already said. I'm like, why wasn't even the victims 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.679 family like where was It was just it's a feeling 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:36.879 that I never want to feel again. 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.320 Marvin, take it back to how you first met Pierre, 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.240 or how you first became aware of his case and 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.399 why you chose to get involved in this case. You 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.080 must get hit with cases all the time. 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.480 I actually came to represent Pierre after a different attorney, 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.480 Stephen Bedrick, who was handling his direct appeal in state court, 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:08.680 also filed the habeas corpus petition in the California State 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:09.440 Court of Appeal. 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.880 What is a literal interpretation of habeas corpus? 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.959 Habeas corpus means to produce the body in Latin, and 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.120 what that means is that it's an allegation by us 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:24.800 that Pierre is being unlawfully incarcerated. And once I dug 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.560 into the case and reviewed the evidence in Pierre's case 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:31.360 and did some investigation of my own, that very much turned. 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.399 Out to be true. What went wrong here? 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.280 I think a number of things went wrong, but most critically, 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:41.520 there was evidence which could have exonerated Pierre which was 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.760 not introduced. The only witness in the case, Robert Green, 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:49.439 testified that Pierre was supposedly the person who committed this crime. 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.159 That is the only evidence in the case and in 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.280 the trial against Pierre. That witness testified that the person 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.879 who committed this crime was talking on his cell phone 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:05.160 mirror minutes before shooting the victim. In this case, Pierre's 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.600 phone records were available and that was part of the 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:12.760 habeas petition and got him a hearing subsequently, and those 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:17.639 phone records established conclusively that Pierre was not talking on 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:20.840 his cell phone at the time when the perpetrator was. 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.600 And if those records were introduced, I think that it 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.560 would be a pretty compelling piece of evidence to establish that, 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:32.719 in fact, Pierre is not the person responsible for this murder. 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.400 But they weren't introduced, The jury never heard of them. 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.600 What about the fingerprint stuff? How did they manage to 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.800 get around that? That seems like that could have been 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.080 enough on its own. How did he not leave his fingerprints? 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:46.359 Is he a ghost? Well? 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.639 The fingerprint evidence was introduced by way of a stipulation 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:54.440 or the evidence technician who actually gathered the latent fingerprints 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.639 from the car that was used in the homicide. That 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:01.879 witness did not testify. Rather, Pierre's trial attorney chose to 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.119 have that evidence admitted by way of an agreement with 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:09.119 the prosecutor simply the conclusion that Pierre's fingerprints were not 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.520 in fact recovered from that car and had that witness 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:16.399 been called, it would have led to another important piece 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.119 which was not introduced and not known to the jury. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:24.679 That evidence technician also collected DNA from that car swabbed 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:28.879 all of the areas of that car where the killer 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:34.119 sat just before the murder occurred. In addition, there was 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:38.959 a cigarette but that was recovered from the floorboard of 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:44.200 that car, which was also swabbed for DNA. That DNA 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:48.120 evidence was not tested in time for Pierre's trial, and 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:52.360 that was also the subject of his subsequent Avias petition. 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:57.399 So what happened was after we obtained an evidentiary hearing 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.480 in state court to attempt to prove years innocence. As 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.640 I started reviewing the case materials, I realized that this 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:08.600 DNA evidence existed which would completely exonerate him, and no 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:12.840 one had tested it. So there's a procedure under California 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:17.440 law that allows the convicted individual to ask the court 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:20.560 to now have that evidence tested because it would prove 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:24.480 that he's innocent. The government opposed our efforts to have 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.520 that evidence tested, and ultimately the judge in this case 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.280 refused to allow us to test that evidence. I then 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:36.119 appealed that refusal and the Court of Appeal refused to 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.440 allow us to test that evidence. Why is it that 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:42.560 they wouldn't want to have the DNA evidence in the 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:45.640