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Speaker 1: In the early morning of April fifteenth, twenty eleven, Dwan

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Speaker 1: Taylor stole an iPod for an Oakland drug dealer named

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Speaker 1: c Two of his other customers, Patrick Smith and Robert Green,

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Speaker 1: gave Sea a ride in search of the iPod thief.

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Speaker 1: They spotted mister Taylor pulled up next to him, and

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Speaker 1: See proceeded to shoot and kill him Over this trivial slight.

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Speaker 1: Nearly a week would go by before Robert Green would

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Speaker 1: offer cops information and an uncertain description of the shooter.

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Speaker 1: A few weeks and several descriptions later, Green would claim

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Speaker 1: to have seen s wearing a red hat. A few

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Speaker 1: days after that, police would approach Pierre Rushing, a man

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Speaker 1: who had never been known as Sea, but wearing a

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Speaker 1: red hat. They'd bring Pierre's juvie photo and his name

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Speaker 1: to Robert Green, who went on to identify him as

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Speaker 1: the shooter, despite a solid alibi, no physical evidence whatsoever,

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Speaker 1: or anything to corroborate Robert Green's highly questionable identification. Pierre

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Speaker 1: Rushing's burgeoning rap career and promising future we're stolen by

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Speaker 1: Green and the criminal legal system. He's currently serving fifty

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Speaker 1: to life for a frivolous and tragic crime committed by

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Speaker 1: a drug dealer named C. Patrick. Smith has since signed

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Speaker 1: Affi Davis and testified to Pierre's innocence, and another of

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Speaker 1: C's customers that night has bravely set a legal name

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Speaker 1: to the culprit, and even though mister Rushing did not

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Speaker 1: name see, we have censored his name from this episode

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Speaker 1: for mister Rushing's safety. Meanwhile, the state of California continues

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Speaker 1: to ignore evidence of Pierre's actual innocence and to fight

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Speaker 1: his honest attempts to regain his freedom. This is Wrongful

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Speaker 1: Conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with

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Speaker 1: Jason Flamm. That's me and today we're going to tell

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Speaker 1: you about the case of Pierre Rushing. We'll speak with

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Speaker 1: one of his post conviction attorney's, Marvin Lou as well

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Speaker 1: as taking a call from Kern Valley Correction in California

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Speaker 1: to hear from Pierre himself. This is Globaltallenge. You have

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Speaker 1: a free TOOD call from your MUSHA.

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Speaker 2: This call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded.

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Speaker 3: To accept this call, sing.

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Speaker 1: Or dial five now. Thank you for using globaltal Link Hello,

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Speaker 1: good morning, Good morning. I'm glad you're here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances, but I'm definitely

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Speaker 1: glad you're here. I know we have limited times, so

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Speaker 1: let's get right into it. Today's episode, we're going to

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Speaker 1: tell the story of the man we have on the

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Speaker 1: phone now, Pierre Rushing, who's serving fifty years. The Nightmare

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Speaker 1: starts on April fifteen, twenty eleven, at three forty five

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Speaker 1: am when there's a murder. But let's go back to

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Speaker 1: your childhood, because you had a difficult upbringing and you

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Speaker 1: were coming out of that and building a career in

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Speaker 1: music when it all went haywire in California.

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Speaker 3: My father was a assentee and then out of prison,

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Speaker 3: smart was addicted crack cocaine. So I don't want to

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Speaker 3: say like any other Oakland kids, but I mean a

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Speaker 3: lot of kids in the in the that grew up

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Speaker 3: in the nineties were just products of our environment. We

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Speaker 3: grew up looking at things that we believed to be right.

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Speaker 3: So we actually mature, we get to see that they

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Speaker 3: were really wrong.

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Speaker 1: And how did you get into music.

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Speaker 3: My auntie used to work for she Swet. Her name

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Speaker 3: was Tracy Rush and she since passed in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 3: but just being around her, she took me un her wing,

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Speaker 3: just taking me to the studio with her as I

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Speaker 3: became addicted to you.

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Speaker 1: Is it fair to say by twenty eleven things were

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Speaker 1: starting to look up for you in terms of possibly

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Speaker 1: building a career.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, when I was arrested for this case, actually

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Speaker 3: friends of mine has said that the police were looking

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Speaker 3: for me for this time, and we all laughed about

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Speaker 3: it because everybody knew that I couldn't have done it.

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Speaker 3: I had been wrapping and going to the student sak

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Speaker 3: assist Is shooting videos. And actually when I was arrest

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Speaker 3: I was open up for Bay Area Ledge by the

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Speaker 3: name of surname Queen, and we had a big four

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Speaker 3: van with my patriots on and promoting my music and everything. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was coming up for me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you were on exactly, You're on your way up.

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Speaker 1: And then everything went completely haywire. Now let's turn the

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Speaker 1: conversation to Marvin Lou. Marvin is a criminal defense attorney

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Speaker 1: of some repute, and he has been representing Pierre for

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Speaker 1: some time. Now, let's just paint a picture of what happened.

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Speaker 4: The date was April fifteenth, twenty eleven, and what happened

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Speaker 4: was two individuals by the name of Patrick Smith and

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Speaker 4: Robert Green. We're doing crack cocaine for the day and

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Speaker 4: a half leading up to this young man's killing, and

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Speaker 4: Patrick Smith and Robert Green went to an apartment in

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Speaker 4: Oakland to purchase more crack Cocaineatrick Smith was driving, Robert

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Speaker 4: Green stayed in the car while Patrick Smith went up

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Speaker 4: to the apartment to purchase more drugs. So Patrick Smith

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Speaker 4: meets up with his drug dealer. Patrick Smith knows him

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Speaker 4: as s the letter C who is the actual person

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Speaker 4: responsible for the murder of Dewane Taylor. While Patrick Smith

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Speaker 4: was in the apartment, there were several other people present,

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Speaker 4: and mister Taylor left the apartment Shortly after mister Taylor left.

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Speaker 4: Then sees iPod turned up missing and someone in the

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Speaker 4: apartment said that mister Taylor had taken sees iPod. What

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Speaker 4: happened next was Patrick Smith, the shooter, se and another

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Speaker 4: individual who was also charged as a co defendant named

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Speaker 4: Andre Morris. They all left the apartment and went and

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Speaker 4: got in Patrick Smith's car to go find mister Taylor,

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Speaker 4: who had allegedly taken sees iPod. Robert Green was waiting

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Speaker 4: in the carting in the front passenger seat. So pat

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Speaker 4: Smith drives around the corner. They see mister Taylor walking

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Speaker 4: down the street and see or Andre Morris. Pat Smith

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Speaker 4: wasn't sure which told him to stop the car. S

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Speaker 4: and Andre Morris got out of the car, confronted mister Taylor,

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Speaker 4: and see shot and killed mister Taylor on the sidewalk

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Speaker 4: in front of a fast food restaurant. They then got

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Speaker 4: back into the car. Pat Smith drove a short distance.

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Speaker 4: Both c and mister Morris got out of the car

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Speaker 4: and ran away. So that's the factual backdrop for this thing.

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Speaker 1: Follow along here because Pierre, who were on the phone

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Speaker 1: with now had no connection to viction, no knowledge of

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Speaker 1: the actual perpetrator, and he was at his grandmother's at

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Speaker 1: the time with a young lady named Lauren Richardson on

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Speaker 1: the time and date of the murder. Have you ever

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Speaker 1: had a nickname of ce before it? Never?

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Speaker 3: Never, I've always went by the name of stink Or.

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Speaker 3: People from my neighborhood used to call me Peace thanked

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Speaker 3: me for my first Mspierre have never never went by

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Speaker 3: the nam Sea.

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Speaker 1: So what happened. How did you end up getting wrong

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Speaker 1: with convicted here?

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Speaker 3: Well, one of the passes is Robert Green. He goes

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Speaker 3: to the police n five days after he allegedly sees

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Speaker 3: this crime, and he tells them that he's seen as

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Speaker 3: murdering a guy named see commissed this murder. He gives

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Speaker 3: the police multiple different descriptions. I believe his first description

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Speaker 3: is five a light skin, one hundred and twenty pounds.

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Speaker 3: I haven't been one hundred and twenty pounds since I

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Speaker 3: was eighteen years old, let alone at nineteen years old,

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Speaker 3: and I'm not light skin. The second time I sees

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Speaker 3: the police, he switches it up again. So allegedly he

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Speaker 3: says he sees seat on April thirties, which would have

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Speaker 3: been fifteen days after the crime, and he went back

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Speaker 3: to the police and said, you know what, I lied again.

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Speaker 3: I believe he was six foot two, brown skin, and

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Speaker 3: it had on red shirt and a red hat. I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure what kind of lineup they were showing me,

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Speaker 3: but he still couldn't identify who they believed to be seen.

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Speaker 3: The police seen an area that he said that he

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Speaker 3: had seen seeing. I believe it was May third, wearing

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Speaker 3: a red hat, and they stopped me. And when they

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Speaker 3: stopped me, they said, what is your name? I don't

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Speaker 3: lie to the police. Year Russian is my name. I say, hey,

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Speaker 3: we're looking for a guy and beat a guy up.

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Speaker 3: I haven't beaten the guy up. And then they leave

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Speaker 3: when they take that name back to I believe Robert Green,

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Speaker 3: who was at the police station and they shown my

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Speaker 3: picture four days after he's seen a guy with a

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Speaker 3: red hat. He said, you know what, he had asked Bessie,

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Speaker 3: And that's how the whole way of his spawned them

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Speaker 3: looking for a guy with a red had four days

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Speaker 3: after the Robert gif he's seen this.

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Speaker 1: Guy and a month after the crime. When they first

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Speaker 1: questioned you, they wanted to know what you were doing

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Speaker 1: on the day of the crime. But when they were

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Speaker 1: asking you this question, it was already five weeks later, right,

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Speaker 1: And this is a trick that they use. Sometimes you're like,

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Speaker 1: you're supposed to remember exactly, Like I don't ask anybody

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Speaker 1: in the audience right now, what were you doing. Let's

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Speaker 1: go back thirty five days from whatever day you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this. Tell me right now what you were doing

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Speaker 1: at a particular time on that day. And I'll give

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Speaker 1: you a dollar because that's impossible, but it is very

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Speaker 1: effective because then they can say you lied, because there's

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Speaker 1: no way anyone could possibly remember that unless it was

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Speaker 1: their birthday or some other like really important day.

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Speaker 3: Right April fifteenth, as he would have it is my

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Speaker 3: father's birthday. So without me even thinking, you say April fifteen, Hey,

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Speaker 3: there's nothing I was with my dad. I seen my

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Speaker 3: dad on his birthday, not one time at any trial

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Speaker 3: transcript police evidence toward these themery do they ever say

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Speaker 3: where were you three forty five a m. So if

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Speaker 3: they say no, you weren't with your dad. I also

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Speaker 3: remember that I had a traffic shot that day and

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Speaker 3: they went checked and it showed that I was on

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Speaker 3: the truth, but they said Noah, not at that time.

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Speaker 3: It took me, i believe my attorney, for about a

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Speaker 3: week to jog in my memory to figure out where

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Speaker 3: did I sleep at three forty five am that morning?

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Speaker 3: And I remembered it was my grandma. So I was

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Speaker 3: because my mom came to me that morning and said,

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Speaker 3: where are you going to get your dad for his birthday?

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Speaker 3: That's how I was able to put the piece of

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Speaker 3: it a pleasure together, but by that time it was trial,

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Speaker 3: so they looked at it as if, oh, this is

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Speaker 3: a third alibi. Well, no, I've given you everywhere I

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Speaker 3: went from April fifteenth, and so that's how they played it,

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Speaker 3: which is very nefarious because they see that I was

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Speaker 3: trying to tell them everything at.

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Speaker 1: The time that this crime was committed at three forty

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Speaker 1: five in the morning. Now we know what you were

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Speaker 1: doing when you were supposedly out shooting somebody who you

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Speaker 1: never knew and don't know and still don't know and

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Speaker 1: never will know.

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Speaker 3: Well, April fourteenth, I was shooting a video. If you

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Speaker 3: go on YouTube right now, the song was called Young

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Speaker 3: Stank Take a Trip. Lauren Richison was associate of the

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Speaker 3: camera man helped shoot the video. She was also my

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Speaker 3: girlfriend April fourteenth, going in table fifteen, she came to

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Speaker 3: my grandma, talked roughly about nine forty five rounds ten o'clock,

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Speaker 3: and we spend the night. We enjoy each other's company.

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Speaker 3: We deal with any other boys for their girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: Hello.

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Speaker 2: My name is Lauren Richardson. I am an Oakland resident

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Speaker 2: and current legal apprentice. I entered the field with a

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Speaker 2: lot of motivation from the tragic situation that happened with

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Speaker 2: Pierre Rushing. I originally was into video. On April fourteenth,

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Speaker 2: Pierre went to shoot a video. It's called take a Trip.

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Speaker 2: We were super excited because he has so much support

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Speaker 2: from our neighborhood. Everybody knew he was a great rapper,

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Speaker 2: so when he finally shot the video, we were super excited.

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Speaker 2: We went back to his grandmother's house afterwards just to

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Speaker 2: kind of recap, and we stayed up all night watching movies, laughing,

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Speaker 2: making plans for the future. We you know, did what

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Speaker 2: couples do late night, and I left early in the

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Speaker 2: morning because I had to take my son to school.

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Speaker 2: And it was some weeks after that he kind of disappeared,

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Speaker 2: you know, when somebody else found me and was like,

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Speaker 2: you know, he's in jail. I'm like what, because I

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Speaker 2: was kind of mad, you know I was. I thought

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Speaker 2: he ghosted me, to be honest, so it was no

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Speaker 2: way that he could have committed the crime. I have

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Speaker 2: never felt as powerless as I felt in this situation

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Speaker 2: to express reality and be believed, and you know, this

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Speaker 2: huge power structure for them to be able to create

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Speaker 2: a false reality, like even with the witness, the witness

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Speaker 2: is not a credible witness, nowhere near as credible as

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Speaker 2: I am, because I'm not going to go perjure myself.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to risk my life to keep a

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Speaker 2: killer out of jail. So for me to go up

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Speaker 2: there in front of all of these people and for

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Speaker 2: them to not take my word for it when they

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Speaker 2: had no other evidence, it bothers me to this day.

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Speaker 2: It's a big part of the motivation for me to

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Speaker 2: go into this apprenticeship program because I want to learn

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Speaker 2: how to speak up for other people who can't speak

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Speaker 2: for themselves, because this has to stop. They ruined an

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Speaker 2: entire family.

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Speaker 1: The idea that we in this country can sent in

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Speaker 1: somebody like you, a promising young man with his life

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Speaker 1: ahead of him, to fifty years based on the testimony

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Speaker 1: of an admitted crackhead. It was up for two days

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Speaker 1: or changed the story four times, really should make everybody

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Speaker 1: a little scared. Yeah, can you tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the trial itself.

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Speaker 3: The killing is on camera. When I heard they had

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Speaker 3: it on camera, I'm starting to kick my feet up

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Speaker 3: and just wait for the trial days because I'm like,

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Speaker 3: it's on camera. I'm going on. I never in a

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Speaker 3: million years imagined that the camera would be low quality

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Speaker 3: or you really can't see anything on the camera. You

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Speaker 3: see a vehicle pull up and it's just graining, so

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Speaker 3: you can't really see anything. And I remember my heart

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Speaker 3: just dropping because I knew that that was what was

256
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Speaker 3: supposed to exonerate me. They had no evidence, no cor

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Speaker 3: no no physical They have the murdered vehicle with twelve

258
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Speaker 3: fingerprints inside the car and said I got in and

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Speaker 3: out of that car four times. None of the fingerprints

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Speaker 3: mats made. One of the prosecution's witness was a lady

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Speaker 3: by the name of the Carli smith Orf. She witnessed

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Speaker 3: the crime her and pass men for best friends. She

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Speaker 3: had been in that car the week before when the

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Speaker 3: police forensic pathologists became to call on every twenty second

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Speaker 3: they found to call his fingerprints in that car. Therefore,

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Speaker 3: when she testified she hadn't been in the car seven

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Speaker 3: days prior to the killing, that means that the car

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Speaker 3: couldn't have possibly been wiped down. And if the car

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Speaker 3: wasn't wiped down, and you found twelve to fourteenth fingerprints

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Speaker 3: in that car. Per Robert Green's testimony, I got in

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Speaker 3: and out of that car four times, and I killed

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Speaker 3: this guy with no glove. Why an't wear my fingerprints

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Speaker 3: on the car? Second, if Robert Green is to believe,

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Speaker 3: why would you ever call me five day lights skin

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Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty pounds? Why would you ever change

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Speaker 3: it to five ten one hundred and sixty pounds. In

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Speaker 3: that preliminary hearing when the judge allowed me to leave

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Speaker 3: the car room, they brought Robert Green in. They said,

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Speaker 3: could you please describe to kill it? This guy switched

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Speaker 3: it up to six to two hundred and twenty pounds.

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Speaker 3: This guy's not to be believed. He was addicted to cracking.

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Speaker 3: Heroon said he had been up for two days off

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Speaker 3: cracking Airon. I had to be insially seven time failing. Third,

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Speaker 3: you have to call the smith another prosecutions with us.

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Speaker 3: I didn't see him. I don't know who that is.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean our standard in this country is

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Speaker 1: supposed to be reasonable doubt and this goes way beyond

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Speaker 1: that standard.

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Speaker 3: I had hope that you know, I would be exaggerated.

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Speaker 1: And did you have proper representation? Now?

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Speaker 3: I went to a trial with a POS defender, and

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Speaker 3: I went speedy trial. I was arrested in May. I

293
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,560
Speaker 3: was a convicted and all this, and the reason I

294
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 3: went speedy truck because I felt like I had nothing odd.

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Speaker 3: I didn't do it. So while when I wait where

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Speaker 3: I see in my counting people wait four or five

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Speaker 3: years to fight the case because they're trying to wait

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Speaker 3: for the better deal. The first day of trial, I

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Speaker 3: remember the judge saying something like, hey, I know the

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Speaker 3: DA is going to give you a deal. She looked

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Speaker 3: to your left, get a deal because I know that

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Speaker 3: he's going to give you one. And I just remember

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Speaker 3: shaking my head, no, no, no, because why would I

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Speaker 3: take time for something if I didn't do it. They

305
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,840
Speaker 3: know I'm not seen, so they want to know if

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Speaker 3: what we call in the urban community, if I'm going

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00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,680
Speaker 3: to snitch, I know a lot of seas. That's that's

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Speaker 3: the one for two. It's not my job to do

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Speaker 3: the police a job for them, you know. So if

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Speaker 3: I wasn't there, what do you expect me to do?

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Speaker 3: Or maybe it could have been this guy, Maybe it

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00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,720
Speaker 3: could beat this guy. If I do that, I'm worse

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Speaker 3: than Robert Green because you were not there and they

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Speaker 3: know that and they feed off that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, jailhouse snitches has just sort of become like standard

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Speaker 1: operating procedure.

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Speaker 3: Correct. It's a nightmare. It is a living nightmare. But

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Speaker 3: that was that was the summ of the trail.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a nightmare scenario. So the jury goes

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Speaker 1: out when they came back in, what was that moment

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Speaker 1: like when they actually found guilty of a crime you

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Speaker 1: didn't commit.

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Speaker 3: When they came back with it, it was It was

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Speaker 3: weird because the whole trial, I had twenty to thirty

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Speaker 3: people every single day of my trial, friends from the neighborhood, family, girlfriend, associates.

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Speaker 3: But on that day, nobody was in the courtroom, not

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Speaker 3: even the victim's family, nobody from my family. That was

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Speaker 3: just like a sense of loneliness, assensan like me against

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Speaker 3: the world because you're sitting here convicted me for a

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Speaker 3: crime that I didn't commit, and I know that you

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Speaker 3: know I didn't commit this crime. And I couldn't even

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Speaker 3: look back to look in the eyes of my mother,

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Speaker 3: my father, and my grandmother, and I felt like that

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Speaker 3: was already said. I'm like, why wasn't even the victims

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Speaker 3: family like where was It was just it's a feeling

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Speaker 3: that I never want to feel again.

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Speaker 1: Marvin, take it back to how you first met Pierre,

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Speaker 1: or how you first became aware of his case and

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00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,399
Speaker 1: why you chose to get involved in this case. You

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Speaker 1: must get hit with cases all the time.

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Speaker 4: I actually came to represent Pierre after a different attorney,

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Speaker 4: Stephen Bedrick, who was handling his direct appeal in state court,

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Speaker 4: also filed the habeas corpus petition in the California State

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Speaker 4: Court of Appeal.

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Speaker 1: What is a literal interpretation of habeas corpus?

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Speaker 4: Habeas corpus means to produce the body in Latin, and

347
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,120
Speaker 4: what that means is that it's an allegation by us

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Speaker 4: that Pierre is being unlawfully incarcerated. And once I dug

349
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Speaker 4: into the case and reviewed the evidence in Pierre's case

350
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,360
Speaker 4: and did some investigation of my own, that very much turned.

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Speaker 1: Out to be true. What went wrong here?

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Speaker 4: I think a number of things went wrong, but most critically,

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Speaker 4: there was evidence which could have exonerated Pierre which was

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Speaker 4: not introduced. The only witness in the case, Robert Green,

355
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Speaker 4: testified that Pierre was supposedly the person who committed this crime.

356
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Speaker 4: That is the only evidence in the case and in

357
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 4: the trial against Pierre. That witness testified that the person

358
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Speaker 4: who committed this crime was talking on his cell phone

359
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:05,160
Speaker 4: mirror minutes before shooting the victim. In this case, Pierre's

360
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 4: phone records were available and that was part of the

361
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 4: habeas petition and got him a hearing subsequently, and those

362
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,639
Speaker 4: phone records established conclusively that Pierre was not talking on

363
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 4: his cell phone at the time when the perpetrator was.

364
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,600
Speaker 4: And if those records were introduced, I think that it

365
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 4: would be a pretty compelling piece of evidence to establish that,

366
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,719
Speaker 4: in fact, Pierre is not the person responsible for this murder.

367
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Speaker 4: But they weren't introduced, The jury never heard of them.

368
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Speaker 1: What about the fingerprint stuff? How did they manage to

369
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 1: get around that? That seems like that could have been

370
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 1: enough on its own. How did he not leave his fingerprints?

371
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Speaker 1: Is he a ghost? Well?

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Speaker 4: The fingerprint evidence was introduced by way of a stipulation

373
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Speaker 4: or the evidence technician who actually gathered the latent fingerprints

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00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,639
Speaker 4: from the car that was used in the homicide. That

375
00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 4: witness did not testify. Rather, Pierre's trial attorney chose to

376
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Speaker 4: have that evidence admitted by way of an agreement with

377
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,119
Speaker 4: the prosecutor simply the conclusion that Pierre's fingerprints were not

378
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 4: in fact recovered from that car and had that witness

379
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 4: been called, it would have led to another important piece

380
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 4: which was not introduced and not known to the jury.

381
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:24,679
Speaker 4: That evidence technician also collected DNA from that car swabbed

382
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,879
Speaker 4: all of the areas of that car where the killer

383
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 4: sat just before the murder occurred. In addition, there was

384
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,959
Speaker 4: a cigarette but that was recovered from the floorboard of

385
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 4: that car, which was also swabbed for DNA. That DNA

386
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,120
Speaker 4: evidence was not tested in time for Pierre's trial, and

387
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,360
Speaker 4: that was also the subject of his subsequent Avias petition.

388
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 4: So what happened was after we obtained an evidentiary hearing

389
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 4: in state court to attempt to prove years innocence. As

390
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,640
Speaker 4: I started reviewing the case materials, I realized that this

391
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 4: DNA evidence existed which would completely exonerate him, and no

392
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 4: one had tested it. So there's a procedure under California

393
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 4: law that allows the convicted individual to ask the court

394
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 4: to now have that evidence tested because it would prove

395
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 4: that he's innocent. The government opposed our efforts to have

396
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 4: that evidence tested, and ultimately the judge in this case

397
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 4: refused to allow us to test that evidence. I then

398
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 4: appealed that refusal and the Court of Appeal refused to

399
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 4: allow us to test that evidence. Why is it that

400
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 4: they wouldn't want to have the DNA evidence in the

401
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 4: case tested if they're so confident that, in fact he's

402
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 4: the perpetrator.

403
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 1: I never can understand in any case, especially in a

404
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: case as serious as this one, a murray case, why

405
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:57,239
Speaker 1: they wouldn't want to have every stone turned over and

406
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 1: have every piece of evidence tested so that they can

407
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: find out not only that in this case, Pierre didn't

408
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: do it, but they could find out who actually did.

409
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: Marvin Yolanda Washington and Patrick Smith are pivotal players in

410
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 1: this whole wrongful conviction. Can you explain their role in

411
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 1: what went wrong here? Sure?

412
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 4: Of course Pat Smith was a charged co defendant in

413
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 4: the case at the time of Pierre's trial, so he

414
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 4: did not testify at the trial. He had his fifth

415
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 4: Amendment right. But after Pierre's trial was long over and

416
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 4: after Patrick Smith resolved his part of the case for

417
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 4: accessory after the fact, he then signed an affidavid which

418
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 4: helped Pierre get an evidentiary hearing. He indicated both in

419
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 4: his affidavit as well as in his testimony at the

420
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 4: evidentiary hearing that his drug dealer is a man who

421
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 4: goes by the name of C. And that individual was

422
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 4: not Pierre Rushing. Pat Smith at the hearing refused to

423
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 4: name that individual because he was afraid for his life.

424
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 4: One of the people who was in that apartment was

425
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 4: a woman by the name of Yolanda Washington, and she

426
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 4: also did not testify a trial, but after Pierre was convicted,

427
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 4: she signed an affidavid under penalty of perjury indicating that she,

428
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 4: of course, having been in that apartment, knew who C was.

429
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 4: She obviously knew who Andre Morris was, and what she

430
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 4: said in her affid David was that Pierre Rushing is

431
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 4: not the drug dealer who shot and killed mister Taylor.

432
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 4: Pierre Rushing is not C. But that's not all. Indeed,

433
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 4: Yolanda Washington went so far as to identify who that

434
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 4: person was. Now, before we get into this, let me

435
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 4: make one thing clear, which is that Pierre does not

436
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 4: know the identity of the perpetrator of this homicide. Yolanda Washington,

437
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 4: in her Affidavid, did name that individual who goes by

438
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 4: the nickname C. In fact, his first name is his

439
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 4: name is and of course it would make perfect sense

440
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 4: that he would go by the nickname Se because his

441
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 4: name is Pierre Rushing does not have a Sea in

442
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 4: his name, and she has never been Pierre's nickname. Because

443
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 4: Pierre is not the person responsible for this killing. That

444
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 4: affidavit was part of what enabled Pierre to get a

445
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 4: hearing in superior court. Unfortunately, Miss Washington was a homeless

446
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 4: individual at that time, and my investigator was essentially unable

447
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 4: to locate her to get her to testify in court.

448
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 4: So I filed a motion essentially asking that her affidavit

449
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 4: be considered because she was unavailable, and that request was denied.

450
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: Wow, it's pretty courageous, even after the fact that these

451
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: two people both were willing to put their own lives

452
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: at risk to identify someone who they know is a killer.

453
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: And I think that speaks volumes to the veracity of

454
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: their statements.

455
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 3: For me growing up. And I don't mean to say

456
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 3: it like this because of the social climate that we

457
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 3: have one on in the United States right now, but

458
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 3: growing up, I voice so like it's been Dominus. So

459
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 3: not because I grow up in Hayden the police, but

460
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 3: I just watch how they need those that look likely.

461
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 3: Here it is we're talking about a guy gives a

462
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 3: description on April thirties of a red hat and you

463
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 3: see me on the dirt and say, well, hey, that's

464
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 3: a guy wearing a red hat. Let me stop him.

465
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 3: And now my whole life is his spending in a

466
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 3: Sparta with not a shread of physical evidence links me

467
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 3: to this crime. And if it could happen to me,

468
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 3: it can't happen to anybody.

469
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up. I mean,

470
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: we you know, every day there's more information coming out,

471
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: and I'm grateful that the public is starting to have

472
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: really heightened awareness to the fact that black people, it's

473
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: just put it right out there, are so much more

474
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: are likely to be victimized by not just police brutality,

475
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: but by wrongful convictions, by wrongful prosecutions, being forced into

476
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: taking plea bargains to things they didn't do. The whole

477
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: system is stacked wrongful convictions, though, do happen to people

478
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: from all races, all nationalities, all different creeds, all different religions.

479
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: I mean, we've had people on the show from every

480
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 1: walk of life.

481
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: I mean, you can take the case of Mayan Ferguson

482
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 3: in a two thousand and one Columbus, Missouri killing. He

483
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 3: was wrongfully convicted, and he's a white man, you know

484
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 3: what I mean. Like, wrathful convictions don't have a skin color.

485
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 3: I mean, it's usually what I'm going through. I witness misidentification,

486
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 3: i'm valid, forensic science, false confessions, police or prosecutor misconduct.

487
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: This is a slew of things on why wrongful convictions happened.

488
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: Then there's just laziness too. It's like, oh, we got

489
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: a guy with a red hat, good enough, you know

490
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: what I mean? Yeah, But the idea that the justice

491
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: system at every level, now we see it on video

492
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: of how the system treats people like yourself, like George Floyd,

493
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: like so many others, as expendable, disposable, and yet I mean,

494
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: there are very very real consequences. That's why we're on

495
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: the phone with you from prison now, or you and

496
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: I might be working together on a record instead of Pierre.

497
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: What would you want people to know about you and

498
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: what would you want them to do if you could

499
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: give them an action step.

500
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 3: I would want them to know that I could be

501
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 3: your son, I could be your brother, I could be

502
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: your nephew, I could be your cousin. I could be

503
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 3: your friend. I'm innocent. If you have any doubt in

504
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 3: my innocence, I would actually just think on these key points.

505
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 3: If I wasn't innocent, guilty person would push for DNA

506
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 3: testing up the materials that we saw out the vehicle.

507
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 3: If I wasn't innocent, what guilty man would push for

508
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 3: the enhancement of the of the video if I wasn't innocent,

509
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 3: or man, I'm going to push for the phone records.

510
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 3: I'm innocent. I didn't commit this crime. I have nothing

511
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 3: to do with this crime. I would ask that you

512
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 3: just look inside of art and find the empathy and

513
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 3: the compassion to sign a petition that my family is

514
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 3: an organized justice for peer Russian that change dot org,

515
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 3: and I would ask that you stand up, that you

516
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 3: would reach out to their local authorities, their local police department,

517
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: concrist legislation is trying to try to make change.

518
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: So again, that's justice for Pierre rushing on Change dot org.

519
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: Is the petition. We'll also have a link in this

520
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: episode description so you can sign the petition there. Please

521
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: everyone go and sign it. I already did. I hope

522
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: you'll join me and let's bring him home. And now well,

523
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: I want to introduce what our listeners have come to

524
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: know is my favorite part of the show, and I

525
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: think a lot for a lot of them, it's true too.

526
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: This is a part of the show where first of all,

527
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: I thank you for being on the show and sharing

528
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: your experience. Hopefully it will make a difference in the

529
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: lives of others and a difference in your case as well.

530
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: So thank you again, Pierre for being here. And now

531
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to kick back in my chair, turn my

532
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: microphone off and just basically shut up and listen. So

533
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: closing arguments, we're going to go first to Marvin lou

534
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: and then we're going to hear from Pierre.

535
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 4: What has happened to Pierre is a systemic failure. These

536
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 4: are problems which are built into the legal system that

537
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 4: need to be fixed on the systemic level, you know,

538
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 4: in terms of next steps, you know. Fortunately, Pierre continues

539
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 4: to be represented by Bob Bellis in his ongoing federal

540
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 4: habeas matter, and I wish them the best and I

541
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 4: hope that ultimately, through the legal system, they're able to

542
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 4: generate some relief and review for Pierre. But what I

543
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 4: will say is that in light of the failures of

544
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 4: the system relating to Pierre over and over again. What

545
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 4: I would say is that this venue is an opportunity

546
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 4: to go outside of and beyond the legal system to

547
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 4: attempt to find a way to free Pierre from this

548
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 4: wrongful conviction. And one of the things that can be

549
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 4: done outside of the legal system is to put pressure

550
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 4: on the government to either test that DNA evidence or

551
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 4: provide it to Pierre's attorneys so that they can test

552
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 4: it for him. Even though they have resisted that and

553
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 4: actively opposed that throughout these proceedings, nonetheless they retain the

554
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 4: power to change their minds and agree, and they are

555
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 4: the Alameda County District Attorney's Office and the California Attorney

556
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 4: General's office. So whether they're forced to do that through

557
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 4: some legal proceeding or whether they agree to do that

558
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 4: by virtue of public and political pressure, that is something

559
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,959
Speaker 4: that can be done and that they continue to have

560
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 4: the power to do.

561
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: Pierre. The mic is yours for closing arguments.

562
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 3: Thank you. I would like to first off saying thank

563
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 3: you on behalf of me in behalf of my family

564
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 3: to a few people, first, starting with you, Jason Flamfer,

565
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 3: You creating this platform that is reaching millions and millions

566
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 3: of people right now. We're living in an a climate

567
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: where a lot of people are making it a black

568
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 3: and a white issue right now. Yes, black lives do matter,

569
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 3: but it's not a black and a white issue because

570
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 3: they have a lot of people that are of Caucasian

571
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 3: race that are standing up, and you are are one

572
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 3: of us. So I thank you. I thank Marvin Loewell

573
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 3: for fighting and championing my innocence. I like to thank

574
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: glri An Saudi. I like to thank Josh Wendle for

575
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 3: helping my family out. And I'd also like to thank

576
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 3: Okay and what she's doing for justice reform. And I'd

577
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 3: like to thank the Innocence Project and those that are

578
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 3: are standing enough for these carvers. And finally, I like

579
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: to just also thank my father. They tried to make

580
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 3: my father and try to transfer to look like a

581
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 3: guy who was trying to persuade witnesses. You know, in

582
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, the driver of this case, Patrick Smith, came

583
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: and he said, you know, I took them guys to

584
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 3: do that stuff, and I was a part of that.

585
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: And I can't live with myself knowing that a man

586
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 3: is doing life for something that I did, he's not

587
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 3: the guy. And when they asked him, why are you

588
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 3: coming forward now, he said because his father reached out

589
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 3: to me. And they tried to make my father look

590
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 3: like like like he was persuading, when all he was

591
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 3: doing was fighting for his son. What was you done

592
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 3: if your son was arrested to some mean and do

593
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 3: you would fight for him? So you know they're gonna

594
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 3: throw smoking mirrors and try to make it seem like

595
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: this and try to make it seem like that. I

596
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: don't care about the smoking mirror. I care about the facts,

597
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: and the fact is I didn't commit to come. With

598
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 3: that being said, you know, it's a lot going on

599
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 3: right now, So I just ask for people to just

600
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: educate yourselves on these type of situations. They could happen

601
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 3: to anybody here. I was rapping, so I was attending

602
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 3: the landing in Marry College. I didn't do too good.

603
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 3: I ended up dropping out, but I tried. You know,

604
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 3: I don't know a lot of people that come from

605
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 3: where I come from not even try to go to college,

606
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 3: let alone do it while they're doing music. I was

607
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 3: trying to make a change in my life. I didn't

608
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 3: grow up squeaky clean I'd be the first one to

609
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 3: tell you, like I told anybody, I've had a check pass.

610
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: That doesn't define me, that doesn't make me a killer,

611
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 3: that doesn't make me anything but a man that grew

612
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 3: up looking at something that's wrong believing that it was right.

613
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 3: There is no physical, forensic evidence that links me to

614
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 3: this crime. So if you need any reason to fight

615
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 3: for this cause, just look inside the case. Pull the

616
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 3: case up. You're going to see listen is an atrocity

617
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 3: and it could happen to anybody, anybody. They say in

618
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: the Wikipedia two point three million prisoners, like one hundred

619
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 3: twenty Thollan wrowfully convicted people in prison. Something is wrong

620
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 3: with that. Likely there's something farribly wrong with that.

621
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you

622
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. It really helps. And I'm a proud

623
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: donor to the Innocence Project, and I really hope you'll

624
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: join me in supporting this very important cause and helping

625
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocenceproject dot org

626
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like

627
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis

628
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: the music in The show is by three time OSCAR

629
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on

630
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.

631
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is a production of Lava

632
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One.

633
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: The Woman That Was Made