Speaker 1: Katie, I've got a question for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think we sleep better when we're sleeping
Speaker 2: in the same bed or when we're not sleeping in
Speaker 2: the same bed.
Speaker 3: I sleep better when you're in the bed because I'm
Speaker 3: really cold and I put my cold feet on your
Speaker 3: hot hot, too, hot body.
Speaker 1: I'm down for whatever results in bow chicka. Wow. Wow.
Speaker 3: When we go to sleep at the same time, there's
Speaker 3: a better shot at it.
Speaker 2: I can't believe you made this about going to sleep earlier.
Speaker 3: Hi, everybody, I'm Katie Lows. I am an actor, a
Speaker 3: podcast host, a mom, and honestly very tired most of
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 2: And I'm Adam Shapiro, an actor, a pretzel maker, a
Speaker 2: dad in Katie's husband.
Speaker 3: And this is Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios
Speaker 3: from iHeartMedia in partnership with Mattress Firm. Everybody sleeps, and
Speaker 3: sleep affects just about everything, our health, relationships, intimacy, being patient.
Speaker 4: With your kids, our work, and our play.
Speaker 3: In this season of Chasing Sleep, we'll dig into the
Speaker 3: many ways sleep impacts our lives and find out what's
Speaker 3: real and what's myth.
Speaker 2: And we're going to talk to everyday people about real
Speaker 2: life situations that lots of us encounter.
Speaker 3: And this is our first episode. Good luck, honey, let's
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
Speaker 3: This episode is about sleep and love. I'm so excited
Speaker 3: to be co hosting with my husband.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is nice.
Speaker 4: It's like a built in date.
Speaker 1: I agree. You know, it's really nice when you're in
Speaker 1: a relationship and you.
Speaker 2: Can just do about anything together, you know, talking, laughing, eating, drinking, exercise,
Speaker 2: raising kids. But you know what could be difficult, huh,
Speaker 2: sleeping in the same bedroom together.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: We talked with some other couples to find out how
Speaker 3: they're doing in the bedroom.
Speaker 1: Don't you mean sleeping, I mean sleeping.
Speaker 4: In the bedroom.
Speaker 2: We've been together for thirteen years seven months today.
Speaker 1: Forty years. Yeah, coming up on six years.
Speaker 2: The nicest thing about sharing a bed together is waking
Speaker 2: up in the morning and kind of communicating and having
Speaker 2: sort of that interaction.
Speaker 5: You know, we're a team and it is nice to
Speaker 5: like be close to each other physically.
Speaker 3: I feel like we get to like online together and
Speaker 3: just kind of like talk through what happened during the day.
Speaker 1: We can snuggle, but we can also have our own space.
Speaker 5: You like, will put his.
Speaker 4: Arm around me, I just have to like push you off.
Speaker 1: You take the good with the bad. I definitely sleep
Speaker 1: better when I got my partner a bit. I just do.
Speaker 1: I do like having my partner next to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: absolutely love sleeping next.
Speaker 4: To each other.
Speaker 1: It's the best. I think there's something comforting about your partners.
Speaker 5: It's like the balance. The bed needs some balance.
Speaker 1: That's very poetic. It's something that just feels good.
Speaker 5: And I just.
Speaker 2: Genuinely and generally feel a lot happier being able to
Speaker 2: sleep with my partner every single night. I just have
Speaker 2: so many questions about improving our sleep, our relationship to sleep,
Speaker 2: our relationship to each other.
Speaker 4: Like, for example, I sleep with a snorer.
Speaker 1: You do?
Speaker 5: Is it me?
Speaker 1: You?
Speaker 4: Adam Shapiro, you snore?
Speaker 6: Wow?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're a married couple and sometimes we put each
Speaker 2: other to sleep.
Speaker 1: That's that's healthy, right.
Speaker 4: Unless we're having sex at the same time.
Speaker 1: It happens. Oh, we are going there.
Speaker 3: I am really excited to speak with today's guests. We
Speaker 3: are joined by doctor Wendy M. Troxel. She is the
Speaker 3: author of Sharing the Covers, Every Couple's Guide to Better Sleep.
Speaker 4: Welcome, doctor Wendy Troxel.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much. For having me. I'm really excited
Speaker 5: to be here today with you all.
Speaker 4: I have so many questions for you about relationships.
Speaker 1: Whoa I'm sure Katie does.
Speaker 2: We also have Kai Dates and Valerie Weisler here. They
Speaker 2: are a very cool, happy couple from Brooklyn, New York.
Speaker 1: Hi, Kai and Val thank you.
Speaker 5: Happy to be here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having us, Thanks for being here.
Speaker 3: Guys, Kai and Val, you're young, You're in love. How
Speaker 3: long have you two been together?
Speaker 6: We have been together since October twenty nineteen. Our first
Speaker 6: date was a date we didn't know was a date
Speaker 6: at the local ice cream parlor. So about three and
Speaker 6: a half years now.
Speaker 4: And how long since you've moved in together?
Speaker 7: Previously because of lockdown with the pandemic, it was like
Speaker 7: we were college students dating and then we were long
Speaker 7: distance for I think like six months, right, and then
Speaker 7: Val moved into my childhood home.
Speaker 1: With me for six months.
Speaker 4: Got it.
Speaker 7: And then Val lived in Ireland for a year to
Speaker 7: do her master's degree while I finished my undergrad degree. Wow,
Speaker 7: and now we live together in the same city.
Speaker 2: So now, in all these circumstances, have you ever felt
Speaker 2: like your sleep quality is affecting?
Speaker 1: How the two of you get along as a couple.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think I I am the person in our
Speaker 7: relationship who has the most sleep issues. So I feel
Speaker 7: drawn to start because I tend to have big meltdowns
Speaker 7: when I'm tired. So I think I'm the one who's
Speaker 7: most impacted emotionally by lack of sleep. I think for me,
Speaker 7: I tend to have a pretty easy time falling asleep,
Speaker 7: but a very hard time staying asleep, Like everything gets heightened.
Speaker 7: And so I think I am a better communicator and
Speaker 7: partner when I have my.
Speaker 3: Best sleep doctor Troxel, Since you're not just a relationships expert,
Speaker 3: but you're so knowledgeable about how sleep affects relationships, help
Speaker 3: us understand what sleep means for being happy as a couple.
Speaker 5: Oh, that's a loaded question. So the vast majority of
Speaker 5: the study of sleep, the science of sleep, has focused
Speaker 5: on sleep as this individual behavior, and yet that's not
Speaker 5: how sleep occurs for most couples. After all, we spend
Speaker 5: about a third of our lives asleep, so that's a
Speaker 5: major part of our coupled existence. When we're sleep deprived
Speaker 5: or sleep is disturbed, it really manifests quite obviously and
Speaker 5: quite quickly in our moods, particularly our irritability levels.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, today's a perfect example. Our kiddos woke Oh,
Speaker 2: we have two kids, five and two. They woke up
Speaker 2: very early. They jumped out of their rooms, they jump
Speaker 2: in our beds, and then it becomes sort of a
Speaker 2: competition between me and Katie on who can stay in
Speaker 2: the bed long enough without going crazy and getting up
Speaker 2: and doing the morning with the kid.
Speaker 5: And that happens with a lot of couples for a
Speaker 5: variety of different reasons. Children being just one of the
Speaker 5: sleep disruptions that can disturb the sleep of a couple.
Speaker 5: And again, this is where sleep in our relationships are
Speaker 5: so intertwined because who's the person that you're most likely
Speaker 5: to lash out at when you're irritable and sleep deprived.
Speaker 5: Your partner, Right, you're able to rein that in a
Speaker 5: little bit more when you're dealing with your boss, or
Speaker 5: your friends or your colleagues, But it's your partner who
Speaker 5: will face the brunt of that emotional dysregulation that we
Speaker 5: know stems from in part from sleep deprivation.
Speaker 3: It's amazing how many fights Adam and I have been
Speaker 3: together for seventeen years and how many fights we have
Speaker 3: been in and sleep has never really been a topic
Speaker 3: something that we should really like work on, and how
Speaker 3: we sleep together. I mean, Adam and I talked about
Speaker 3: briefly about, you know, snoring.
Speaker 4: How do you and I?
Speaker 3: VALANCHI, I'm sure do you have personal stories about all
Speaker 3: of that?
Speaker 4: Is somebody a snorer? Adam's a snorer? What about you?
Speaker 1: Only occasionally? This guy is too, We're both snores.
Speaker 4: What are your sleep sounds that wig each other up?
Speaker 7: I am a sleep talk I am too.
Speaker 6: I'll say the sleep talking is actually not a low
Speaker 6: point for me. It's a high point because I think
Speaker 6: that sleep talking is so funny and I don't sleep talk.
Speaker 6: But growing up I was like, I hope that my
Speaker 6: future partner sleep talk because I think that is just hilarious.
Speaker 6: And I'm the night owl and the relationship so I'm
Speaker 6: usually up later than Ty, And if I'm lucky, do.
Speaker 5: You get to catch it?
Speaker 6: I get to hear something weird that they say in
Speaker 6: their sleep, a little gift, So that is a joy
Speaker 6: for me. But then the snoring, I think both of
Speaker 6: us have our own qualms about.
Speaker 5: The other person.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think this was actually pretty recently, Val really
Speaker 7: woke me up with some loud snoring, and I was
Speaker 7: very aggressive in my half awake, half asleep, like stop it.
Speaker 1: But then I found out from that because that was like,
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 5: I love you so much, I can't.
Speaker 7: I believe you yelled at me the one time it
Speaker 7: happened because you snore every night, and I had no
Speaker 7: idea that I snore every night.
Speaker 5: Snoring is the disease of listeners, so it's not surprising
Speaker 5: that because you were unaware.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh, that's so funny.
Speaker 2: I think sometimes I hurt Katie in that I'm I
Speaker 2: go to bed so much later than she does. I'm
Speaker 2: like sneaking in like an international spy, like a ninja.
Speaker 5: She's best laid plans.
Speaker 3: Sometimes you come into bed and you just decide I
Speaker 3: really want to snuggle her at one am.
Speaker 2: This is true, but I'm talking about the times that
Speaker 2: I come in like a ninja.
Speaker 1: It seems to not matter.
Speaker 2: It seems like Katie always wakes up when I come in,
Speaker 2: no matter how loud I get. But I can't go
Speaker 2: to bed at the same time she does. That's just
Speaker 2: not in my personality. My energy is not your biology.
Speaker 3: Yeah, doctor Troxel, what do you advise couples who don't
Speaker 3: have same sleep schedules.
Speaker 5: The reality is, just because you fall in love with
Speaker 5: human being doesn't mean you're automatically biologically going to be
Speaker 5: syncd up in terms of your natural, biologically driven sleep
Speaker 5: wake rhythms or cir Katian rhythms. Couples may decide for
Speaker 5: this reason because their schedules are so different and the
Speaker 5: sleep disruption when one partner comes to bed later is
Speaker 5: so disruptive. They may even choose to sleep in separate bedrooms.
Speaker 5: I have a number of strategies I talk about in
Speaker 5: my book, the first of which, honestly, for couples, it's
Speaker 5: often the time you spend together in bed before one
Speaker 5: of you falls asleep. That's actually a really critical and
Speaker 5: sacred time in the life of a relationship. So I
Speaker 5: do recommend to couples that you try to preserve some
Speaker 5: cuddle time together, that quiet time in bed, for instance,
Speaker 5: before Katie you fall asleep at your natural earlier bedtime.
Speaker 5: When it's time for you to go to sleep, Adam
Speaker 5: leaves the room.
Speaker 3: I would be so much more game of cuddling you
Speaker 3: at nine nine thirty than when he tries to sometimes
Speaker 3: do that at one or and I'm so angry that
Speaker 3: he's interrupted my big window.
Speaker 5: When you're not exhausted quite yet.
Speaker 3: Adam has no problem falling asleep at ten pm if
Speaker 3: we've gotten after it. You know what I'm saying, Like seriously,
Speaker 3: like he that is the only time he has no
Speaker 3: problem falling asleep at ten or eleven is if he
Speaker 3: has an orgasm.
Speaker 1: Goodness, Yeah, we're going there.
Speaker 5: I'm not interested, right, I'll fall.
Speaker 1: Asleep at three pm if you want to have sex, kated.
Speaker 2: I'm in a sexual mastery class for men right now,
Speaker 2: you tell because I want it. During a silent auction
Speaker 2: at a charity event the other.
Speaker 4: Day, I made him bid on it. I was like,
Speaker 4: this sounds cool.
Speaker 2: Well, I was in a bidding war with my friend
Speaker 2: and then it became a joke, and then it became
Speaker 2: a very expensive joke.
Speaker 1: But now I'm in this intense class. It's amazing.
Speaker 4: Did you already start it? Yeah, kiddy, I'm a mess,
Speaker 4: I'm a blister, Okay.
Speaker 2: Doctor Troxel, what does the data say about sex life
Speaker 2: in sleeping? Does bad sleep kind of affect your sex life?
Speaker 1: Is that related? Yes?
Speaker 5: Yes, getting good quality sleep has profound impacts on our
Speaker 5: sexual hormones like testosterone. In men, one study published in
Speaker 5: the Journal of the American Medical Association, which is the
Speaker 5: pre eminent medical journal, showed that men, healthy young men,
Speaker 5: by the way, who sleep less than five hours per night,
Speaker 5: showed a ten percent reduction in testosterone levels. And just
Speaker 5: like to put that in perspective for you, that ten
Speaker 5: percent reduction is the equivalent of aging a man hormonally
Speaker 5: by about ten years, So a forty year old man
Speaker 5: looks a bit more like a fifty year old man.
Speaker 5: In terms of this critical of reproductive hormone, we see
Speaker 5: similar hormonal effects in women and also effects on the
Speaker 5: frequency and enjoyment of sexual activity among women. So for
Speaker 5: each hour of extra sleep a woman gets, one study
Speaker 5: showed to a fourteen percent increase in her enjoyment of
Speaker 5: sexual activity and frequency. So there is a profound and
Speaker 5: important couple level reason to prioritize sleep in the context
Speaker 5: of your relationship. Sleep is good for sex, not to
Speaker 5: mention all the emotional effects that come from being well slept. Frankly,
Speaker 5: you know, we're all happier, funnier, better communicators when we're
Speaker 5: well slept, which is also good for one's relational life
Speaker 5: and one's sex life.
Speaker 2: This is a fascinating discussion and we are not done.
Speaker 1: More to come.
Speaker 3: We're back and I can't wait to get back to
Speaker 3: this conversation with Kai and Val, our couple in Brooklyn,
Speaker 3: and with sleep and Relationships expert doctor Wendy Troxel. There's
Speaker 3: so much more that I want to find out. Kai
Speaker 3: and Val, Can you tell us what's your sleeping arrangement
Speaker 3: right now?
Speaker 6: Yes, we have separate rooms, but it didn't start from snoring.
Speaker 1: Let's get into that.
Speaker 7: I think for various reasons, I toss and turn in
Speaker 7: the middle of the night, but it's heightened when I'm
Speaker 7: sharing a bed sometimes. So when that's the case, whether
Speaker 7: or not it's because of vallis snoring or like just
Speaker 7: the you know, additional heat of the room because there's
Speaker 7: multiple bodies in it, or lack of space to sprawl,
Speaker 7: like whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to get a little bit into the
Speaker 3: snitty gritty because I'm absolutely fascinated by this. I can
Speaker 3: remember working on Scandal and there's an actor who will
Speaker 3: remain nameless on this podcast, but I knew wasn't sleeping
Speaker 3: in the same bed as his wife, and I was
Speaker 3: like loop writing's on the wall divorce, divorce, divorce, and
Speaker 3: it's like he's the worst snorer ever, Like it's awful.
Speaker 3: I know this about him, and they're still married. So
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, I think it's just amazing that you are,
Speaker 3: not that you've barreled through.
Speaker 7: I think like at first I was sort of like
Speaker 7: taken aback because I didn't really know anyone who does this,
Speaker 7: and before I was able to like fully commit to it,
Speaker 7: I think I had to do some like reworking of
Speaker 7: what this sort of like nuclear family norm is of
Speaker 7: like what a home space is supposed to look like
Speaker 7: and what a bedroom is supposed to be and represent.
Speaker 7: And I sat with that for a couple of days.
Speaker 6: I talked about it with my therapist, and I went
Speaker 6: into therapy with the goal of, like get me out
Speaker 6: of this mindset, like in forty five minutes, I want
Speaker 6: to leave feeling comfortable sharing a room with my partner
Speaker 6: because something clearly must be wrong with me that this
Speaker 6: is my want. And then instead, my therapist, being a
Speaker 6: good therapist, was like, actually, this is what you want.
Speaker 6: It sounds like it's what you need, and that's okay.
Speaker 6: I heard the term sleep divorce and we are not married.
Speaker 6: But like, the shame is real. There was a lot
Speaker 6: that I had to work through when I realized that
Speaker 6: this was something I wanted. And I was raised with
Speaker 6: this idea that you meet someone, you fall in love,
Speaker 6: and then when you move in together, you're sharing a
Speaker 6: room and you're creating a home, and feeling that I
Speaker 6: needed to do something differently, Suddenly I was having all
Speaker 6: of these wonders about myself and if something was wrong
Speaker 6: with me, when in reality, this is one of the
Speaker 6: best decisions I've made, not only for myself but also
Speaker 6: for my relationship.
Speaker 2: We've heard the term sleep divorce, but that's a that's
Speaker 2: not a divorce, that's like that's helping me.
Speaker 3: I know, it's such a negative connotation. It sounds horrible.
Speaker 2: My question is when you're when you decide to sleep
Speaker 2: in another room, Let's say we do this, do we
Speaker 2: have to create a second bedroom atmosphere?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Valanchai, what are you doing?
Speaker 3: I need to know how often you're sleeping together, how
Speaker 3: often you're sleeping apart? And also are we scheduling when
Speaker 3: we have sex? Like, tell me how did works.
Speaker 7: Weekdays pretty much are in our own rooms. And then
Speaker 7: weekends are in like one of each of our beds,
Speaker 7: and we try to switch off. The goal was to
Speaker 7: make sure that it doesn't feel like there's like that
Speaker 7: one of our rooms becomes like the main room and
Speaker 7: the others is like the backup.
Speaker 3: Right, when you do decide to meet up, it's always
Speaker 3: in Kai's.
Speaker 4: Room, or it's always in Value room, right right.
Speaker 7: And I tend to have a more anxious attachment style.
Speaker 7: And I have never really had my own bedroom. I've
Speaker 7: always been sharing it with like a sibling or a parent.
Speaker 7: And so for me, it's a new practice for me
Speaker 7: to learn how like if I wake up in the
Speaker 7: middle of the night from a nightmare, but I can
Speaker 7: go and like crawl into VAL's bed and be comforted.
Speaker 7: But also sometimes I'll wake up and be like having
Speaker 7: this new new to me challenge of how do I
Speaker 7: sue myself from this like nightmare has brought me this
Speaker 7: set and of confidence in my ability to care for
Speaker 7: myself and be with myself. And I think not to
Speaker 7: speak for you, correct me if I'm wrong, but like
Speaker 7: Val tends to air a little bit more towards avoidance, and.
Speaker 3: So are I see you Val, I see you nice
Speaker 3: vow nice, Yeah, Adam, Adam will see you right there?
Speaker 4: I see you, Adam.
Speaker 7: And so the fact that we schedule sleepovers and are
Speaker 7: intentional about it, I think also doesn't like give you
Speaker 7: a reason to keep too much to yourself and to
Speaker 7: have like that nice sense of like young people in
Speaker 7: a relationship and being in almost like in community with
Speaker 7: each other.
Speaker 1: That's really great.
Speaker 2: See what I worry about is the interesting I worried about.
Speaker 2: Does it affect the sex life? Yes, doctor Troxel. What
Speaker 2: does the data say about sex life and sleeping in
Speaker 2: different rooms?
Speaker 1: Are those two things even related?
Speaker 5: For many couples, sex and good sex is actually scheduled.
Speaker 5: It happen when it fits into your life, and you
Speaker 5: have to be intentional about that. So just because a
Speaker 5: couple doesn't choose to actually spend the night sleeping together
Speaker 5: does not mean it's going to have a negative impact
Speaker 5: on their sexual activity. And in fact, as Valanchine mentioned,
Speaker 5: in the particular sleeping arrangement that works for them in
Speaker 5: their relationship, I hear that there's this sort of freshness
Speaker 5: of the separate bedrooms and then having sort of these
Speaker 5: reunions on the weekends in either of their rooms that
Speaker 5: can be very sexy and very fresh within a couple.
Speaker 1: Oh wow. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Usually weekends are lately, as we're getting back into the
Speaker 6: swing of things, are when we have sex.
Speaker 5: Because it's also.
Speaker 6: Like I know with my work schedule that like I
Speaker 6: don't have to be like brain is moving in work
Speaker 6: mode and that we're already planning to sleep in the
Speaker 6: same room. But also there is a cool element since
Speaker 6: we don't always sleep in the same room of like
Speaker 6: spontaneity too, and if both of us are into it,
Speaker 6: then there's kind of this this fun almost this like
Speaker 6: it feels like you're like, uh, getting to getting to
Speaker 6: jump back into like the early stages of our relationship
Speaker 6: where I can like I can come over and I
Speaker 6: can decide that like absolutely I wanna you know, we're
Speaker 6: making out and we'll see what it turns into and
Speaker 6: like that feels really cool too.
Speaker 7: Or there were times there's sometimes where like we are
Speaker 7: intimate and then Bell was like okay and good nights,
Speaker 7: and then that's how I like and it's.
Speaker 4: Honestly, I am into this, Yeah right.
Speaker 7: It's kind of it kind of indulges in a like
Speaker 7: as you said, we are a very communicative, very gentle
Speaker 7: loving couple, and there's something like fun about intimacy also
Speaker 7: kind of like there's a fantasy sometimes of like okay
Speaker 7: and see you tomorrow by.
Speaker 6: Right, right, Like I can I can send them home
Speaker 6: when I want to do.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's also nice.
Speaker 4: It's like the best of both worlds. So great, you
Speaker 4: look forward to it.
Speaker 6: I think of weekends a lot differently this setup where
Speaker 6: we're sleeping over.
Speaker 5: I look forward to it.
Speaker 6: And like, if we're sleeping over on a Friday night,
Speaker 6: it's almost like a given that we know on Saturday
Speaker 6: morning we're gonna take our dog to our favorite, big
Speaker 6: old place, and like it feels.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, right, it feels like a weekend.
Speaker 3: Right, it feels like a weekend. Oh man, you schedule sex,
Speaker 3: you're in big trouble or you know you oh yeah,
Speaker 3: this it's a very modern convention.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a very well yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 5: back in the medieval times, it wasn't even it was
Speaker 5: never ever the marital bed. It was really a communal
Speaker 5: bed entire family, and certainly cultures around the world still
Speaker 5: don't ascribe to the marital bed. They have you know,
Speaker 5: family beds, and really sort of the stigma attached to
Speaker 5: sleeping together versus a part has you know, waxed and waned,
Speaker 5: you know, across the centuries. You know, it was day
Speaker 5: Rah Gore and the Victorian era for couples to sleep
Speaker 5: apart if you could afford it. Right, many couples don't
Speaker 5: even have that as a choice, by the way, And
Speaker 5: that was certainly true back in the day, and it
Speaker 5: was really you know, you know, in the nineteen fifties
Speaker 5: it was still sort of common for couples to sleep apart.
Speaker 5: It was really around the nineteen sixties, the sexual Revolution
Speaker 5: that we saw this strong swing towards equating you know,
Speaker 5: the marital bed with you know, sleeping together in the
Speaker 5: you know, literal sense was also the same as sleeping
Speaker 5: together in the biblical sense that if you were not
Speaker 5: sleeping together, you were not having sex as a couple.
Speaker 5: And that's the stigma that we're still working through today.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, when you friends come over and you're like,
Speaker 3: this is VAL's bedroom, this is Kay's bedroom, are people like,
Speaker 3: what what are you doing? And do you feel like
Speaker 3: you have to explain yourself?
Speaker 6: I think, especially with the older people in my life,
Speaker 6: there's definitely a lot more oh okay, and you know
Speaker 6: that they're confused and for them, they have been grown
Speaker 6: into this idea that sleeping in suffer earms means that
Speaker 6: something is wrong.
Speaker 7: What you said, Katie about people who are like, ooh, divorce, divorce, divorce.
Speaker 6: But what is a cool surprise is that I found
Speaker 6: that when a lot of our friends come over to
Speaker 6: our house and they see our separate rooms, we yet
Speaker 6: to be the blueprint for them and kind of the
Speaker 6: permission givers of like, oh, this is possible. And we've
Speaker 6: had these conversations where a lot of our friends see
Speaker 6: us as people they can turn to to process this
Speaker 6: is something that they want in their relationship and be
Speaker 6: able to give advice on what it looks like to
Speaker 6: make that happen.
Speaker 1: What about betting? Does betting have any.
Speaker 5: Sort of like you know, Well, the mattress industry is
Speaker 5: definitely paying attention to the need for individualized preferences within
Speaker 5: the shared bed, and that can solve many couples issues.
Speaker 5: For instance, if they have different sort of firmness preferences
Speaker 5: of the mattress, or one partner tends to toss and
Speaker 5: turn or steal the sheets. There's even a method known
Speaker 5: as the Scandinavian method, which is essentially two twin beds
Speaker 5: put together equals a king and this is also sort
Speaker 5: of satisfies many couples.
Speaker 1: Oh, that explains the hotels in Europe, Katie.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. Well, it's also a space issue. It's easier
Speaker 5: to get two twin beds and two a room and
Speaker 5: put them together then you know, lugging up a massive
Speaker 5: king bed into a room. But this also does satisfy
Speaker 5: some couples who are struggling still with the stigma. They
Speaker 5: want the appearance of a marital bed of a shared bed,
Speaker 5: but it actually because it's two twin beds, each partner
Speaker 5: can have their own bedding and it's just one common
Speaker 5: overlayer comforter. So yeah, we even have terminology sort of
Speaker 5: to manage.
Speaker 1: These issues, right.
Speaker 2: That is fascinating because Katie, like Katie, is very cold
Speaker 2: at night and she likes it to be warmer.
Speaker 1: She likes more sheets on her.
Speaker 2: And it's kind of a hard thing to navigate when
Speaker 2: I want less sheets on me, because you kind of
Speaker 2: have to like make like an s curve with the sheets,
Speaker 2: like they've got to be on Katie and then come
Speaker 2: down around me. I mean, that's a difficult thing. Wow, Katie,
Speaker 2: this is interesting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you guys might want to try the Scandinavian method
Speaker 5: with individualized mattress pads that have heating and cooling elements.
Speaker 5: There you go, that's that's my.
Speaker 1: Trick I do.
Speaker 2: I did want to ask doctor Troxel another question, because
Speaker 2: I feel like for some couples, the sex come in
Speaker 2: the expense of sleep unlikely to be.
Speaker 3: Good sex, especially because Adam wants to do it late
Speaker 3: at night and I like a shower hour, like once.
Speaker 4: You have kids.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if we have a date and there's dinner and whatever,
Speaker 3: I'm like, while we're showering getting ready to go to dinner,
Speaker 3: we do it, and then we go to dinner. And
Speaker 3: then if I'm really full and tired and just want
Speaker 3: to watch my programs.
Speaker 1: Watch a little Yellowstone and pass out.
Speaker 4: There's really no right time to have sex, you know.
Speaker 3: There's no like bedtime right before sleep or in the
Speaker 3: morning or anything like that.
Speaker 4: Right, there's no like.
Speaker 5: Absolutely not no. I mean, and we know this from
Speaker 5: extensive relationship research that in long term relationships, spontaneous sex
Speaker 5: is really not how sex occurs for most couples. And sure,
Speaker 5: there's probably times where if your schedules are so busy,
Speaker 5: but you know the only time for you to have
Speaker 5: sex with your partner is at night, and you both
Speaker 5: consent to sacrificing a little bit of sleep. I imagine
Speaker 5: it's not taking hours. I don't know, but sure, go
Speaker 5: for it.
Speaker 3: Although I have to say sometimes to share in my
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is weird about me, but
Speaker 3: sometimes when we have sex and I have an orgasm,
Speaker 3: I actually feel incredibly energized, Like I'm the opposite of Adam,
Speaker 3: Like I can have an orgasm.
Speaker 4: He's asleep, and I'm like.
Speaker 3: Let's clean the house and do more laundry and pack
Speaker 3: the dishes, like I'm just like.
Speaker 5: What you're saying is again, regardless of sleeping arrangement, it
Speaker 5: is not true that all sex happens right before bed
Speaker 5: or in the middle of the night. So being intentional,
Speaker 5: including scheduling sex, doesn't make you a laying couple. It
Speaker 5: makes you a real couple who have children or lives
Speaker 5: or schedules. And actually being intentional about an activity that
Speaker 5: it's such a sex that is really important for a relationship,
Speaker 5: among many other things, being intentional about it and being
Speaker 5: sort of mindful about when you're both going to enjoy
Speaker 5: it the most. That's actually a really good thing for
Speaker 5: a relationship, while also prioritizing, you know, the health of
Speaker 5: your sleep, because that's really good for your overall emotional
Speaker 5: and physical health and relational health as well.
Speaker 1: Wow, thank you, doctor Troxel. Katie.
Speaker 2: We think we're talking about sleep, and we think we're
Speaker 2: talking about love, and it turns out it's about communication,
Speaker 2: and so like so many other things when it comes
Speaker 2: to relationships, it's communication that is the key.
Speaker 3: We are going to have a lot to talk about
Speaker 3: tonight at dinner and I am stoked. So doctor Troxel,
Speaker 3: thank you for being on Chasing Sleep.
Speaker 5: It's been such a pleasure. And thanks so much for having.
Speaker 4: Me and valan Ki. Thank you for being on our podcast.
Speaker 7: Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1: When we're in Brooklyn, we're getting dinner.
Speaker 5: Absolutely would be obsessed with that. Please let us.
Speaker 4: Oh that's definitely happening.
Speaker 2: What a start to our first episode of Chasing Sleep.
Speaker 1: I mean, if the.
Speaker 2: Rest is going to be as mind blowing as this
Speaker 2: one is, we are in for a wild ride.
Speaker 3: Yes, And how much sleep and good quality sleep can
Speaker 3: better affect our relationship our communication skills.
Speaker 2: And we just kind of deal with all the difficulties
Speaker 2: of it. We don't really ever talk about it.
Speaker 3: Look, obviously, VALANCHI are sleeping great because they are treating
Speaker 3: each other beautifully.
Speaker 2: This is so true. I was really fascinated with the
Speaker 2: idea that maybe choosing to sleep in different rooms or
Speaker 2: different beds, or anything outside of the norm is not
Speaker 2: necessarily an indicator for your relationship.
Speaker 1: Pulling apart, if.
Speaker 2: Anything, could be the key to having a healthy and
Speaker 2: long relationship.
Speaker 3: I was really fascinated by the option, which I think
Speaker 3: we could definitely adapt into our relationship. About this, like
Speaker 3: cuddle time before I go to sleep. I feel like
Speaker 3: we miss out on that so much because I go
Speaker 3: to sleep at ten and you go to sleep at
Speaker 3: midnight or one. I feel like there's a debriefing of
Speaker 3: the day, a physical touch and intimacy that may or
Speaker 3: may not be sexual, but just that there's a can
Speaker 3: a physical connection and a mental and spiritual connection that
Speaker 3: can happen in the bedroom. That doesn't have to mean
Speaker 3: that you have to go to bed at that time.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: I liked, you know, the removal of the stigma about
Speaker 2: scheduling sex.
Speaker 3: I've always thought because I don't understand when you are
Speaker 3: in a relationship like we are, and we do have
Speaker 3: children and huge work lives, how you don't. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm just so glad we have the professional here to
Speaker 3: tell us that that's okay and doesn't mean that anything
Speaker 3: is wrong with our relationship.
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you and I are hosting this podcast
Speaker 2: together because we had a chance to talk about these
Speaker 2: things publicly. And it's really good to know that sometimes
Speaker 2: you get energized after sex. I've never been awake to
Speaker 2: see how you react to sex in any way, shape
Speaker 2: or form. I'm usually gone.
Speaker 3: But what I liked about too is coming together for
Speaker 3: the weekends is when you is when Kai and Val
Speaker 3: meet up. That sounds so sexy. It sounds like how
Speaker 3: things sort of were when we started dating at them,
Speaker 3: and I would like meet you in Venice for the
Speaker 3: weekend because we lived on opposite ends of Los Angeles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if our sex list was ever
Speaker 2: better than when we lived on opposite ends of Los Angeles, right.
Speaker 4: Well, Also, we were twenty four years.
Speaker 1: Old, no kids, no job, no homework, no no homework.
Speaker 2: At least we had seventeen jobs at that point, but
Speaker 2: there was nothing we had to bring home.
Speaker 3: But I love the idea of their weekend being so sacred,
Speaker 3: like their time together is very special and intentional.
Speaker 2: But I will say I kind of would love to
Speaker 2: explore the idea of a bed that accommodates both of us.
Speaker 3: Yes, because you are hot, I am cold. You like
Speaker 3: hard as a rock for your back, and I like
Speaker 3: a little bit more of a softer, cozier, you know,
Speaker 3: smushy vibe.
Speaker 2: You know this, This episode was really fascinating. I have
Speaker 2: a feeling our next episode is going to be even
Speaker 2: more fascinating.
Speaker 1: We're going to be talking about dreams.
Speaker 3: We've been logging our dreams, so get ready. If you
Speaker 3: thought we were all vulnerable and letting it all hang out,
Speaker 3: so to speak, in this episode, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Speaker 2: I have so many dreams I want to talk about
Speaker 2: with me too. I feel like it could be a
Speaker 2: little uncomfortable. We're gonna be a married couple talking about
Speaker 2: our dreams and this is our subconsciousness and we're gonna
Speaker 2: be talking about this with each other.
Speaker 1: This is wild.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, baby, But enough about us.
Speaker 2: Let's hear about you and what you think of us.
Speaker 2: Go to your podcast player and rate and review Chasing Sleep.
Speaker 2: Maybe even leave some comments about dreams you guys have
Speaker 2: been have.
Speaker 4: That's a great idea. That's a great idea.
Speaker 1: And you could find us on social media.
Speaker 3: Yes, I am at kt q Low's on the Instagram and.
Speaker 2: I am at Shabby Shaps on the Instagram. Don't forget
Speaker 2: to follow or subscribe so that you never miss an episode.
Speaker 3: Chasing Sleep is a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia
Speaker 3: in partnership with Mattress Firm. Our executive producer is Molly Soosha.
Speaker 2: This show was written and produced by Sound That Brands
Speaker 2: Dave Beeson, Jason Jackson, and Michelle Rice.
Speaker 4: Chasing Sleep is hosted by Katie.
Speaker 3: Lows In the Adam Shapiro and Until Next Time, hoping
Speaker 3: you're living your best while sleeping your best.
Speaker 4: M