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Speaker 1: Katie, I've got a question for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think we sleep better when we're sleeping

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Speaker 2: in the same bed or when we're not sleeping in

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Speaker 2: the same bed.

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Speaker 3: I sleep better when you're in the bed because I'm

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Speaker 3: really cold and I put my cold feet on your

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Speaker 3: hot hot, too, hot body.

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Speaker 1: I'm down for whatever results in bow chicka. Wow. Wow.

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Speaker 3: When we go to sleep at the same time, there's

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Speaker 3: a better shot at it.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe you made this about going to sleep earlier.

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Speaker 3: Hi, everybody, I'm Katie Lows. I am an actor, a

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Speaker 3: podcast host, a mom, and honestly very tired most of

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Adam Shapiro, an actor, a pretzel maker, a

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Speaker 2: dad in Katie's husband.

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Speaker 3: And this is Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios

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Speaker 3: from iHeartMedia in partnership with Mattress Firm. Everybody sleeps, and

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Speaker 3: sleep affects just about everything, our health, relationships, intimacy, being

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Speaker 3: patient with your kids, our work, and our play. In

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Speaker 3: this season of Chasing Sleep, we'll dig into the many

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Speaker 3: ways sleep impacts our lives and find out what's real

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Speaker 3: and what's myth.

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Speaker 2: And we're going to talk to everyday people about real

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Speaker 2: life situations that lots of us encounter.

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Speaker 3: And this is our first episode. Good luck, honey, let's

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into it.

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Speaker 3: This episode is about sleep and love. I'm so excited

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Speaker 3: to be co hosting with my husband.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is nice.

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Speaker 3: It's like a built in date.

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Speaker 1: I agree. You know, it's really nice when you're in

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Speaker 1: a relationship and you.

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Speaker 2: Can just do about anything together, you know, talking, laughing, eating, drinking, exercise,

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Speaker 2: raising kids. But you know what could be difficult, huh,

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Speaker 2: sleeping in the same bedroom together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We talked with some other couples to find out how

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Speaker 3: they're doing in the bedroom.

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Speaker 1: Don't you mean sleeping, I mean sleeping.

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Speaker 3: In the bedroom.

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Speaker 2: We've been together for thirteen years seven months today.

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Speaker 1: Forty years. Yeah, coming up on six years.

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Speaker 2: The nicest thing about sharing a bed together is waking

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Speaker 2: up in the morning and kind of communicating and having

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Speaker 2: sort of that interaction. You know, we're a team and

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Speaker 2: it is nice to like be close to each other physically.

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Speaker 3: I feel like we get to like online together and

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Speaker 3: just kind of like talk through what happened during the day.

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Speaker 1: We can snuggle, but we can also have our own space.

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Speaker 4: You like, will put his.

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Speaker 3: Arm around me, I just have to like push you off.

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Speaker 1: You take the good with the bad.

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Speaker 2: I definitely sleep better when I got my partner a bit.

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Speaker 1: I just do.

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Speaker 5: I do like having my partner next to me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely love sleeping next.

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Speaker 6: To each other.

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Speaker 4: It's the best.

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Speaker 1: I think there's something comforting about your partners.

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Speaker 4: It's like the balance. The bed needs some balance.

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Speaker 1: That's very poetic. It's something that just feels good.

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Speaker 4: And I just.

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Speaker 2: Genuinely and generally feel a lot happier being able to

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Speaker 2: sleep with my partner every singal night. I just have

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Speaker 2: so many questions about improving our sleep, our relationship to sleep,

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Speaker 2: our relationship to each other.

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Speaker 3: Like, for example, I sleep with a snorer?

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Speaker 1: You do?

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Speaker 4: Is it me?

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Speaker 3: You Oudam Shapiro, you snore?

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Speaker 6: Wow?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're a married couple and sometimes we put each

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Speaker 2: other to sleep.

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Speaker 1: That's that's healthy, right.

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Speaker 3: Unless we're having sex at the same time.

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Speaker 1: It happens. Oh, we are going there.

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Speaker 3: I am really excited to speak with today's guests. We

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Speaker 3: are joined by doctor Wendy M. Troxel. She is the

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Speaker 3: author of Sharing the Covers, Every Couple's Guide to Better Sleep.

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Speaker 3: Welcome doctor Wendy Troxel.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited

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Speaker 4: to be here today with you all.

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Speaker 3: I have so many questions for you about relationships.

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Speaker 1: Whoa I'm sure Katie does.

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Speaker 2: We also have Kai Dates and Valerie Weisler here. They

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Speaker 2: are a very cool, happy couple from Brooklyn, New York.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Kai and Val, thank you.

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Speaker 4: Happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having us, Thanks for being here.

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Speaker 3: Guys, Kai and Val, you're young, You're in love. How

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Speaker 3: long have you two been together?

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Speaker 6: We have been together since October twenty nineteen. Our first

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Speaker 6: date was a date we didn't know was a date

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Speaker 6: at the local ice cream parlor. So about three and

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Speaker 6: a half years now.

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Speaker 3: And how long since you've moved in together?

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Speaker 5: Previously because of lockdown with the pandemic, it was like

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Speaker 5: we were college students dating and then we were long

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Speaker 5: distance for I think like six months, right, and then

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Speaker 5: Val moved into my childhood home.

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Speaker 1: With me for six months.

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Speaker 3: Got it.

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Speaker 5: And then Val lived in Ireland for a year to

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Speaker 5: do her master's degree while I finished my undergrad degree.

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Speaker 4: Wow, and now we live.

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Speaker 5: Together in the same city.

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Speaker 2: So now, in all these circumstances, have you ever felt

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Speaker 2: like your sleep quality is affecting?

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Speaker 1: How the two of you get along as a couple.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I I am the person in our

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Speaker 5: relationship who has the most sleep issues. So I feel

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Speaker 5: drawn to start because I tend to have big meltdowns

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Speaker 5: when I'm tired. So I think I'm the one who's

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Speaker 5: most impacted emotionally by lack of sleep. I think for me,

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Speaker 5: I tend to have a pretty easy time falling asleep,

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Speaker 5: but a very hard time staying asleep, Like everything gets heightened.

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Speaker 5: And so I think I am a better communicator and

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Speaker 5: partner when I have my.

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Speaker 4: Best sleep doctor.

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Speaker 3: Troxel. Since you're not just a relationships expert, but you're

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Speaker 3: so knowledgeable about how sleep affects relationships, help us understand

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Speaker 3: what sleep means for being happy as a couple.

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Speaker 4: Oh, that's a loaded question. So the vast majority of

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Speaker 4: the study of sleep, the science of sleep, has focused

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Speaker 4: on sleep as this individual behavior, and yet that's not

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Speaker 4: how sleep occurs for most couples. After all, we spend

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Speaker 4: about a third of our lives asleep, so that's a

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Speaker 4: major part of our coupled existence. When we're sleep deprived

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Speaker 4: or sleep is disturbed, it really manifests quite obviously and

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Speaker 4: quite quickly in our moods, particularly our irritability levels.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you know, today's a perfect example. Our kiddos woke Oh,

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Speaker 2: we have two kids, five and two. They woke up

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Speaker 2: very early. They jumped out of their rooms, they jump

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Speaker 2: in our beds, and then it becomes sort of a

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Speaker 2: competition between me and Katie on who can stay in

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Speaker 2: the bed long enough without going crazy and getting up

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Speaker 2: and doing the morning with the kid.

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Speaker 4: And that happens with a lot of couples for a

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Speaker 4: variety of different reasons. Children being just one of the

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Speaker 4: sleep disruptions that can disturb the sleep of a couple.

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Speaker 4: And again, this is where sleep in our relationships are

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Speaker 4: so intertwined because who's the person that you're most likely

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Speaker 4: to lash out at when you're irritable and sleep deprived.

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Speaker 4: Your partner, Right, you're able to rein that in a

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Speaker 4: little bit more when you're dealing with your boss, or

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Speaker 4: your friends or your colleagues, But it's your partner who

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Speaker 4: will face the brunt of that emotional dysregulation that we

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Speaker 4: know stems from in part from sleep deprivation.

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Speaker 3: It's amazing how many fights Adam and I have been

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Speaker 3: together for seventeen years and how many fights we have

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Speaker 3: been in and sleep has never really been a topic

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Speaker 3: something that we should really like work on, and how

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Speaker 3: we sleep together. I mean, Adam and I talked about

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Speaker 3: briefly about, you know, snoring. How do you and I? VALANCHI,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure do you have personal stories about all of that?

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Speaker 3: Is somebody a snorer? Adam's a snorer? What about you?

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Speaker 1: Only occasionally? This guy is too, We're both snores.

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Speaker 3: What are your sleep sounds that wig each other up?

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Speaker 5: I am a sleep talk I am too.

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Speaker 6: I'll say the sleep talking is actually not a low

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Speaker 6: point for me. It's a high point because I think

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Speaker 6: that sleep talking is so funny and I don't sleep talk.

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Speaker 6: But growing up I was like, I hope that my

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Speaker 6: future partner sleep talk because I think that is just hilarious.

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Speaker 6: And I'm the night owl and the relationship so I'm

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Speaker 6: usually up later than Ty, And if I'm lucky, do.

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Speaker 4: You get to catch it?

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Speaker 6: I get to hear something weird that they say in

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Speaker 6: their sleep, a little gift, So that is a joy

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Speaker 6: for me. But then the snoring, I think both of

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Speaker 6: us have our own qualms about.

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Speaker 4: The other person.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think this was actually pretty recently, Val really

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Speaker 5: woke me up with some loud snoring, and I was

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Speaker 5: very aggressive in my half awake, half asleep, like stop it.

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Speaker 5: But then I found out from that because that was like,

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Speaker 5: I can't. I love you so much, I can't. I

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Speaker 5: believe you yelled at me the one time it happened

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Speaker 5: because you snore every night, and I had no idea

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Speaker 5: that I snore every night.

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Speaker 4: Snoring is the disease of listeners, so it's not surprising

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Speaker 4: that because you were unaware.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, that's so funny.

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Speaker 2: I think sometimes I hurt Katie in that I'm I

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Speaker 2: go to bed so much later than she does. I'm

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Speaker 2: like sneaking in like an international spy, like a ninja.

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Speaker 4: She's best laid plans.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes you come into bed and you just decide I

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Speaker 3: really want to snuggle her at one am.

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Speaker 2: This is true, but I'm talking about the times that

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Speaker 2: I come in like a ninja.

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Speaker 1: It seems to not matter.

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Speaker 2: It seems like Katie always wakes up when I come in,

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Speaker 2: no matter how loud I get. But I can't go

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Speaker 2: to bed at the same time she does. That's just

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Speaker 2: not in my personality. My energy is not your biology.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, doctor Troxel, what do you advise couples who don't

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Speaker 3: have same sleep schedules.

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Speaker 4: The reality is, just because you fall in love with

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Speaker 4: human being doesn't mean you're automatically biologically going to be

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Speaker 4: syncd up in terms of your natural biologically driven sleep

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Speaker 4: wake rhythms or cir Katiean rhythms. Couples may decide for

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Speaker 4: this reason because their schedules are so different and the

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Speaker 4: sleep disruption when one partner comes to bed later is

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Speaker 4: so disruptive. They may even choose to sleep in separate bedrooms.

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Speaker 4: I have a number of strategies I talk about in

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Speaker 4: my book, the first of which, honestly, for couples, it's

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Speaker 4: often the time you spend together in bed before one

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Speaker 4: of you falls asleep. That's actually a really critical and

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Speaker 4: sacred time in the life of a relationship. So I

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Speaker 4: do recommend to couples that you try to preserve some

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Speaker 4: cuddle time together, that quiet time in bed, for instance,

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Speaker 4: before Katie you fall asleep at your natural earlier bedtime.

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Speaker 4: When it's time for you to go to sleep, Adam

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Speaker 4: leaves the room.

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Speaker 3: I would be so much more game of cuddling you

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Speaker 3: at nine nine thirty than when he tries to sometimes

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Speaker 3: do that at one or and I'm so angry that

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Speaker 3: he's interrupted my big window.

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Speaker 4: When you're not exhausted quite yet.

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Speaker 3: Adam has no problem falling asleep at ten pm if

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Speaker 3: we've gotten after it. You know what I'm saying, Like seriously,

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Speaker 3: like he that is the only time he has no

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Speaker 3: problem falling asleep at ten or eleven is if he

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Speaker 3: has an orgasm.

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Speaker 1: Goodness, Yeah, we're going there.

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Speaker 4: I'm not interested, right, I'll fall.

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Speaker 1: Asleep at three pm if you want to have sex, kated.

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Speaker 2: I'm in a sexual mastery class for men right now,

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Speaker 2: you tell because I want it.

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Speaker 1: During a silent auction at a charity event the other.

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Speaker 3: Day, I made him bid on it. I was like,

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Speaker 3: this sounds cool.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was in a bidding war with my friend

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Speaker 2: and then it became a joke, and then it became

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Speaker 2: a very expensive joke.

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Speaker 1: But now I'm in this intense class. It's amazing.

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Speaker 3: Did you already start it? Yeah, kiddy, I'm a mess,

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Speaker 3: I'm a blister, Okay.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Troxel, what does the data say about sex life

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Speaker 2: in sleeping? Does bad sleep kind of affect your sex life?

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Speaker 1: Is that related? Yes?

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Speaker 4: Yes, getting good quality sleep has profound impacts on our

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Speaker 4: sexual hormones like testosterone. In men, one study published in

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Speaker 4: the Journal of the American Medical Association, which is the

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Speaker 4: pre eminent medical journal, showed that men, healthy young men,

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Speaker 4: by the way, who sleep less than five hours per night,

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Speaker 4: showed a ten percent reduction in testosterone levels. And just

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Speaker 4: like to put that in perspective for you, that ten

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Speaker 4: percent reduction is the equivalent of aging a man hormonally

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Speaker 4: by about ten years, So a forty year old man

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Speaker 4: looks a bit more like a fifty year old man.

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Speaker 4: In terms of this critical of reproductive hormone. We see

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Speaker 4: similar hormonal effects in women and also effects on the

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Speaker 4: frequency and enjoyment of sexual activity among women. So for

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Speaker 4: each hour of extra sleep a woman gets, one study

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Speaker 4: showed to a fourteen percent increase in her enjoyment of

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Speaker 4: sexual activity and frequency. So there is a profound and

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Speaker 4: important couple level reason to prioritize sleep in the context

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Speaker 4: of your relationship. Sleep is good for sex, not to

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Speaker 4: mention all the emotional effects that come from being well slept. Frankly,

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Speaker 4: you know, we're all happier, funnier, better communicators when we're

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Speaker 4: well slept, which is also good for one's relational life

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Speaker 4: and one's sex life.

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Speaker 2: This is a fascinating discussion and we are not done.

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Speaker 1: More to come.

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Speaker 3: We're back and I can't wait to get back to

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Speaker 3: this conversation with Kai and Val, our couple in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 3: and with sleep and Relationships expert doctor Wendy Troxel. There's

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Speaker 3: so much more that I want to find out. Kai

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Speaker 3: and Val, Can you tell us what's your sleeping arrangement

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Speaker 3: right now?

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Speaker 6: Yes, we have separate rooms, but it didn't start from snoring.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into that.

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Speaker 5: I think for various reasons, I toss and turn in

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Speaker 5: the middle of the night, but it's heightened when I'm

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Speaker 5: sharing a bed sometimes. So when that's the case, whether

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Speaker 5: or not it's because of vallis snoring or like just

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Speaker 5: the you know, additional heat of the room because there's

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Speaker 5: multiple bodies in it, or lack of space to sprawl,

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Speaker 5: like whatever.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to get a little bit into the

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Speaker 3: snitty gritty because I'm absolutely fascinated by this. I can

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Speaker 3: remember working on Scandal and there's an actor who will

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Speaker 3: remain nameless on this podcast, but I knew wasn't sleeping

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Speaker 3: in the same bed as his wife, and I was like, loop.

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Speaker 3: Writing's on the wall divorce, divorce, divorce, and it's like

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Speaker 3: he's the worst snorer ever, Like it's awful. I know

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Speaker 3: this about him, and they're still married. So I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I think it's just amazing that you are, not that

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Speaker 3: you've barreled through.

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Speaker 5: I think like at first I was sort of like

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Speaker 5: taken aback because I didn't really know anyone who does this,

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Speaker 5: and before I was able to like fully commit to it,

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Speaker 5: I think I had to do some like reworking of

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Speaker 5: what this sort of like nuclear family norm is of

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Speaker 5: like what a home space is supposed to look like

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Speaker 5: and what a bedroom is supposed to be and represent.

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Speaker 5: And I sat with that for a couple of days.

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Speaker 6: I talked about it with my therapist, and I went

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Speaker 6: into therapy with the goal of, like get me out

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Speaker 6: of this mindset, like in forty five minutes, I want

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Speaker 6: to leave feeling comfortable sharing a room with my partner

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Speaker 6: because something clearly must be wrong with me that this

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Speaker 6: is my want. And then instead, my therapist, being a

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Speaker 6: good therapist, was like, actually, this is what you want.

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Speaker 6: It sounds like it's what you need, and that's okay.

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Speaker 6: I heard the term sleep divorce and we are not married.

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Speaker 6: But like, the shame is real. There was a lot

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Speaker 6: that I had to work through when I realized that

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Speaker 6: this was something I wanted. And I was raised with

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Speaker 6: this idea that you meet someone, you fall in love,

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Speaker 6: and then when you move in together, you're sharing a

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Speaker 6: room and you're creating a home, and feeling that I

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Speaker 6: needed to do something differently, Suddenly I was having all

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Speaker 6: of these wonders about myself and if something was wrong

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Speaker 6: with me, when in reality, this is one of the

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Speaker 6: best decisions I've made, not only for myself but also

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Speaker 6: for my relationship.

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Speaker 2: We've heard the term sleep divorce, but that's a that's

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Speaker 2: not a divorce, that's like that's helping me.

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Speaker 3: I know, it's such a negative connotation. It sounds horrible.

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Speaker 2: My question is when you're when you decide to sleep

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Speaker 2: in another room, Let's say we do this, do we

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Speaker 2: have to create a second bedroom atmosphere?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Valanchai, what are you doing? I need to know

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Speaker 3: how often you're sleeping together, how often you're sleeping apart?

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Speaker 3: And also are we scheduling when we have sex? Like,

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Speaker 3: tell me how did works.

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Speaker 5: Weekdays pretty much are in our own rooms. And then

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Speaker 5: weekends are in like one of each of our beds,

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Speaker 5: and we try to switch off. The goal was to

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Speaker 5: make sure that it doesn't feel like there's like that

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Speaker 5: one of our rooms becomes like the main room and

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Speaker 5: the others is like the backup.

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Speaker 3: Right, when you do decide to meet up, it's always

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Speaker 3: in Kai's room, or it's always in Value room, right right.

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Speaker 5: And I tend to have a more anxious attachment style.

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Speaker 5: And I have never really had my own bedroom. I've

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Speaker 5: always been sharing it with like a sibling or a parent.

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Speaker 5: And so for me, it's a new practice for me

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Speaker 5: to learn how like if I wake up in the

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Speaker 5: middle of the night from a nightmare, but I can

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Speaker 5: go and like crawl into VAL's bed and be comforted.

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Speaker 5: But also sometimes I'll wake up and be like having

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Speaker 5: this new new to me challenge of how do I

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Speaker 5: sue myself from this like nightmare has brought me this

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Speaker 5: set and of confidence in my ability to care for

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Speaker 5: myself and be with myself. And I think not to

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Speaker 5: speak for you, correct me if I'm wrong, but like

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Speaker 5: Val tends to air a little bit more towards avoidance, and.

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Speaker 3: So are I see you Val, I see you nice

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Speaker 3: vow nice, Yeah, Adam, Adam will see you right there?

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Speaker 4: I see you, Adam.

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Speaker 5: And so the fact that we schedule sleepovers and are

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Speaker 5: intentional about it, I think also doesn't like give you

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Speaker 5: a reason to keep too much to yourself and to

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Speaker 5: have like that nice sense of like young people in

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Speaker 5: a relationship and being in almost like in community with

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Speaker 5: each other.

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Speaker 1: That's really great.

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Speaker 2: See what I worry about is the interesting I worried about.

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Speaker 2: Does it affect the sex life? Yes, doctor Troxel. What

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Speaker 2: does the data say about sex life and sleeping in

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Speaker 2: different rooms?

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Speaker 1: Are those two things even related?

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Speaker 4: For many couples, sex and good sex is actually scheduled.

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Speaker 4: It happen when it fits into your life, and you

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Speaker 4: have to be intentional about that. So just because a

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Speaker 4: couple doesn't choose to actually spend the night sleeping together

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Speaker 4: does not mean it's going to have a negative impact

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Speaker 4: on their sexual activity. And in fact, as Valanchine mentioned,

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Speaker 4: in the particular sleeping arrangement that works for them in

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Speaker 4: their relationship, I hear that there's this sort of freshness

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Speaker 4: of the separate bedrooms and then having sort of these

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Speaker 4: reunions on the weekends in either of their rooms that

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Speaker 4: can be very sexy and very fresh within a couple.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Usually weekends are lately, as we're getting back into the

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Speaker 6: swing of things, are when we have sex.

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Speaker 4: Because it's also.

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Speaker 6: Like I know with my work schedule that like I

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Speaker 6: don't have to be like brain is moving in work

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Speaker 6: mode and that we're already planning to sleep in the

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Speaker 6: same room. But also there is a cool element since

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Speaker 6: we don't always sleep in the same room of like

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Speaker 6: spontaneity too, and if both of us are into it,

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Speaker 6: then there's kind of this this fun almost this like

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Speaker 6: it feels like you're like, uh, getting to getting to

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Speaker 6: jump back into like the early stages of our relationship

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Speaker 6: where I can like I can come over and I

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Speaker 6: can decide that like absolutely I wanna you know, we're

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Speaker 6: making out and we'll see what it turns into and

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Speaker 6: like that feels really cool too.

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Speaker 5: Or there were times there's sometimes where like we are

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Speaker 5: intimate and then Bell was like okay and good nights,

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Speaker 5: and then that's how I like and it's.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, I am into this, Yeah right.

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Speaker 5: It's kind of it kind of indulges in a like

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Speaker 5: as you said, we are a very communicative, very gentle

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Speaker 5: loving couple, and there's something like fun about intimacy also

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Speaker 5: kind of like there's a fantasy sometimes of like okay

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Speaker 5: and see you tomorrow by.

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Speaker 6: Right, right, Like I can I can send them home

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Speaker 6: when I want to do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's also nice.

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Speaker 3: It's like the best of both worlds. So great, you

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Speaker 3: look forward to it.

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Speaker 6: I think of weekends a lot differently this setup where

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Speaker 6: we're sleeping over.

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Speaker 4: I look forward to it.

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Speaker 6: And like, if we're sleeping over on a Friday night,

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Speaker 6: it's almost like a given that we know on Saturday

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Speaker 6: morning we're gonna take our dog to our favorite, big

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Speaker 6: old place, and like it feels.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, right, it feels like a weekend.

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Speaker 3: Right, it feels like a weekend. Oh man, you schedule sex,

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Speaker 3: you're in big trouble or you know you oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: this it's a very modern convention.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a very well yeah, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 4: back in the medieval times, it wasn't even it was

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Speaker 4: never ever the marital bed. It was really a communal

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Speaker 4: bed entire family, and certainly cultures around the world still

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Speaker 4: don't ascribe to the marital bed. They have you know,

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Speaker 4: family beds, and really sort of the stigma attached to

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Speaker 4: sleeping together versus a part has you know, waxed and waned,

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Speaker 4: you know, across the centuries. You know, it was day

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Speaker 4: Rare Gore and the Victorian era for couples to sleep

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Speaker 4: apart if you could afford it. Right, many couples don't

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Speaker 4: even have that as a choice, by the way, And

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Speaker 4: that was certainly true back in the day, and it

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Speaker 4: was really you know, you know, in the nineteen fifties

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Speaker 4: it was still sort of common for couples to sleep apart.

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Speaker 4: It was really around the nineteen sixties, the sexual Revolution

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Speaker 4: that we saw this strong swing towards equating you know,

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Speaker 4: the marital bed with you know, sleeping together in the

439
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Speaker 4: you know, literal sense was also the same as sleeping

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Speaker 4: together in the biblical sense that if you were not

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Speaker 4: sleeping together, you were not having sex as a couple.

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Speaker 4: And that's the stigma that we're still working through today.

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Speaker 3: Oh Wow, when you friends come over and you're like,

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Speaker 3: this is VAL's bedroom, this is Kay's bedroom, are people like,

445
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,239
Speaker 3: what what are you doing? And do you feel like

446
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 3: you have to explain yourself?

447
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 6: I think, especially with the older people in my life,

448
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 6: there's definitely a lot more Oh, okay, and you know

449
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 6: that they're confused and for them, they have been grown

450
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 6: into this idea that sleeping in suffer earms means that

451
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 6: something is wrong.

452
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 5: What you said, Katie about people who are like, ooh, divorce, divorce, divorce.

453
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 6: But what is a cool surprise is that I found

454
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 6: that when a lot of our friends come over to

455
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 6: our house and we see our separate rooms, we yet

456
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 6: to be the blueprint for them and kind of the

457
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 6: permission givers of like, oh, this is possible. And we've

458
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 6: had these conversations where a lot of our friends see

459
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 6: us as people they can turn to to process this

460
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 6: is something that they want in their relationship and be

461
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 6: able to give advice on what it looks like to

462
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 6: make that happen.

463
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: What about betting? Does betting have any.

464
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 4: Sort of like you know, well, the mattress industry is

465
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 4: definitely paying attention to the need for individualized preferences within

466
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 4: the shared bed, and that can solve many couples issues.

467
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 4: For instance, if they have different sort of firmness preferences

468
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 4: of the mattress, or one partner tends to toss and

469
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 4: turn or steal the sheets. There's even a method known

470
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 4: as the Scandinavian method, which is essentially two twin beds

471
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 4: put together equals a king and this is also sort

472
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 4: of satisfies many couples.

473
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: Oh, that explains the hotels in Europe, Katie.

474
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. Well, it's also a space issue. It's easier

475
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 4: to get two twin beds and two a room and

476
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 4: put them together then you know, lugging up a massive

477
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 4: king bed into a room. But this also does satisfy

478
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 4: some couples who are struggling still with the stigma. They

479
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 4: want the appearance of a marital bed of a shared bed,

480
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 4: but it actually because it's two twin beds, each partner

481
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 4: can have their own bedding and it's just one common

482
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 4: overlayer comforter. So yeah, we even have terminology sort of

483
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,360
Speaker 4: to manage.

484
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: These issues, right.

485
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: That is fascinating because Katie, like Katie, is very cold

486
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 2: at night and she likes it to be warmer.

487
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: She likes more sheets on her.

488
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: And it's kind of a hard thing to navigate when

489
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 2: I want less sheets on me, because you kind of

490
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 2: have to like make like an s curve with the sheets,

491
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 2: like they've got to be on Katie and then come

492
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: down around me. I mean, that's a difficult thing. Wow, Katie,

493
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: this is interesting.

494
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, you guys might want to try the Scandinavian method

495
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 4: with individualized mattress pads that have heating and cooling elements.

496
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 4: There you go, that's that's my.

497
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: Trick I do.

498
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 2: I did want to ask doctor Troxel another question, because

499
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: I feel like for some couples, the sex come in

500
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 2: the expense of sleep unlikely to be.

501
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 3: Good sex, especially because Adam wants to do it late

502
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 3: at night and I like a shower hour, like once

503
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: you have kids. Yeah, if we have a date and

504
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 3: there's dinner and whatever, I'm like, while we're showering getting

505
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 3: ready to go to dinner, we do it, and then

506
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: we go to dinner. And then if I'm really full

507
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 3: and tired and just want to watch my programs.

508
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: Watch a little Yellowstone and pass out.

509
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 3: There's really no right time to have sex, you know.

510
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,239
Speaker 3: There's no like bedtime right before sleep or in the

511
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 3: morning or anything like that. Right, there's no like.

512
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 4: Absolutely not no. I mean, and we know this from

513
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 4: extensive relationship research that in long term relationships, spontaneous sex

514
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 4: is really not how sex occurs for most couples. And sure,

515
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 4: there's probably times where if your schedules are so busy,

516
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 4: but you know the only time for you to have

517
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 4: sex with your partner is at night, and you both

518
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 4: consent to sacrificing a little bit of sleep. I imagine

519
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 4: it's not taking hours. I don't know, but sure, go

520
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 4: for it.

521
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 3: Although I have to say sometimes to share in my

522
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is weird about me, but

523
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 3: sometimes when we have sex and I have an orgasm,

524
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 3: I actually feel incredibly energized, Like I'm the opposite of Adam,

525
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: Like I can have an orgasm. He's asleep, and I'm like,

526
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 3: let's clean the house and do more laundry and pack

527
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 3: the dishes, like I'm just like.

528
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 4: What you're saying is again, regardless of sleeping arrangement, it

529
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 4: is not true that all sex happens right before bed

530
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 4: or in the middle of the night. So being intentional,

531
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 4: including scheduling sex, doesn't make you a laying couple. It

532
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 4: makes you a real couple who have children or lives

533
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 4: or schedules. And actually being intentional about an activity that

534
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 4: it's such a sex that is really important for a relationship,

535
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 4: among many other things, being intentional about it and being

536
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 4: sort of mindful about when you're both going to enjoy

537
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 4: it the most. That's actually a really good thing for

538
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 4: a relationship, while also prioritizing, you know, the health of

539
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 4: your sleep, because that's really good for your overall emotional

540
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 4: and physical health and relational health as well.

541
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: Wow, thank you, doctor Troxel. Katie.

542
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,239
Speaker 2: We think we're talking about sleep, and we think we're

543
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 2: talking about love, and it turns out it's about communication,

544
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: and like so many other things when it comes to relationships,

545
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: it's communication that is the key.

546
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 3: We are going to have a lot to talk about

547
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: tonight at dinner and I am stoked. So doctor Troxel,

548
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 3: thank you for being on Chasing Sleep.

549
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 4: It's been such a pleasure. And thanks so much for having.

550
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 3: Me and Val and Ki. Thank you for being on

551
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 3: our podcast.

552
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 5: Thank you for having us.

553
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: When we're in Brooklyn, we're getting dinner.

554
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely would be obsessed with that. Please let us.

555
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 3: Oh that's definitely happening.

556
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 2: What a start to our first episode of Chasing Sleep.

557
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: I mean, if the.

558
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: Rest is going to be as mind blowing as this

559
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: one is, we are in for a wild ride.

560
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 3: Yes, And how much sleep and good quality sleep can

561
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 3: better affect our relationship, our communication skills and we just.

562
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: Kind of deal with all the difficulties of it. We

563
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: don't really ever talk about it.

564
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 3: Look, obviously, VALANCHI are sleeping great because they are treating

565
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 3: each other beautifully.

566
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: This is so true. I was really fascinated with the

567
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: idea that maybe choosing to sleep in different rooms or

568
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 2: different beds, or anything outside of the norm is not

569
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 2: necessarily an indicator for your relationship.

570
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: Pulling apart, if.

571
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 2: Anything, could be the key to having a healthy and

572
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: long relationship.

573
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: I was really fascinated by the option, which I think

574
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 3: we could definitely adapt into our relationship about this, like

575
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: cuddle time before I go to sleep. I feel like

576
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: we miss out on that so much because I go

577
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: to sleep at ten and you go to sleep at

578
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 3: midnight or one. I feel like there's a debriefing of

579
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 3: the day, a physical touch and intimacy that may or

580
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 3: may not be sexual, but just that there's a can

581
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 3: a physical connection and a mental and spiritual connection that

582
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 3: can happen in the bedroom. That doesn't have to mean

583
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 3: that you have to go to bed at that time,

584
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: you know.

585
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: I liked, you know, the removal of the stigma about

586
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: scheduling sex.

587
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 3: I've always thought because I don't understand when you are

588
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 3: in a relationship like we are, and we do have

589
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 3: children and huge work lives, how you don't. I mean,

590
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 3: I'm just so glad we have the professional here to

591
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 3: tell us that that's okay and doesn't mean that anything

592
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 3: is wrong with our relationship.

593
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you and I are hosting this podcast

594
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: together because we had a chance to talk about these

595
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: things publicly. And it's really good to know that sometimes

596
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: you get energized after sex. I've never been awake to

597
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: see how you react to sex in any way, shape

598
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: or form. I'm usually gone.

599
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 3: But what I liked about too is coming together for

600
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: the weekends is when you is when Kai and Val

601
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 3: meet up. That sounds so sexy. It sounds like how

602
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: things sort of were when we started dating at them,

603
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: and I would like meet you in Venice for the

604
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: weekend because we lived on opposite ends of Los Angeles.

605
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if our sex list was ever

606
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: better than when we lived on opposite ends of Los Angeles, right.

607
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 3: Well, Also, we were twenty four years.

608
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: Old, no kids, no job, no homework, no no homework.

609
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: At least we had seventeen jobs at that point, but

610
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 2: there was nothing we had to bring home.

611
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 3: But I love the idea of their weekend being so sacred,

612
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 3: like their time together is very special and intentional.

613
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: But I will say I kind of would love to

614
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: explore the idea of a bed that accommodates both of us.

615
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: Yes, because you are hot, I am cold. You like

616
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: hard as a rock for your back, and I like

617
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,719
Speaker 3: a little bit more of a softer, cozier, you know,

618
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 3: smushy vibe.

619
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: You know this, This episode was really fascinating. I have

620
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: a feeling our next episode is going to be even

621
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: more fascinating. We're going to be talking about dreams.

622
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: We've been logging our dreams, so get ready. If you

623
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 3: thought we were all vulnerable and letting it all hang out,

624
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: so to speak, in this episode, you ain't seen nothing yet.

625
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: I have so many dreams I want to talk about

626
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: with me too.

627
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: I feel like it could be a little uncomfortable. We're

628
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 2: gonna be a married couple talking about our dreams and

629
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: this is our subconsciousness and we're gonna be talking about

630
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: this with each other.

631
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: This is wild.

632
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, baby, But enough about us.

633
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: Let's hear about you and what you think of us.

634
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: Go to your podcast player and rate and review Chasing Sleep.

635
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 2: Maybe even leave some comments about dreams you guys have

636
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: been have.

637
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 3: That's a great idea. That's a great idea.

638
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: And you could find us on social media.

639
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 3: Yes, I am at kt q Low's on the Instagram and.

640
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: I am at Shabby Shaps on the Instagram. Don't forget

641
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: to follow or subscribe so that you never miss an episode.

642
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 3: Chasing Sleep is a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia

643
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 3: in partnership with Mattress Firm. Our executive producer is Molly Soosha.

644
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 2: This show was written and produced by Sound That Brands

645
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: Dave Beeson, Jason Jackson, and Michelle Rice.

646
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 3: Chasing Sleep is hosted by Katie lows In the Adam

647
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 3: Shapiro and Until Next Time, hoping you're living your best

648
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 3: while sleeping your best. M