1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: Canst play an Taking a Walk with last night. Today, 2 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: I'm this bonus edition of Taking a Walk Cody Keenan, 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: how a presidential speech writer collaborates with former President Obama 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: and navigates the pressure of crafting a message. The name 5 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,159 Speaker 1: of the book is Grace, The inside story of the 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: most exhilarating and emotional stretch of the Obama Presidency, as 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: told by Cody Keenan. Cody, welcome to taking a Walk. 8 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: Hey buys, let's take a walk. So you're situated in 9 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: New York City. I'm in the Conquered Mass area here 10 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: down the road from where the late Richard Goodwin, speech 11 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: writer for President Kennedy and President Johnson and author of 12 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: many speeches. Of course, we shall overcome speech for LBJ. 13 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: Any reaction on how mister Goodwin hate you as a 14 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: speech writer, Sure, I learned, and I learned from his 15 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: wife Doris too. You know, he just kind of you 16 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: panic when you first win the election going into the 17 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: White House as a speech writer, and you just try 18 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: to reach out to as many people as you can. 19 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: And I grew up kind of consuming his speeches, you know, 20 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: And I didn't know it was him. And that's the 21 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: point you're not necessarily supposed to know who the speechwriter is. 22 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: I grew up consuming Ted Sorenson's speech as him, and 23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: you want to you want to adapt him for a 24 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: new time. You want to make President Obama sound like 25 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: only President Obama could. But I absorbed all sorts of 26 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: lessons from from those other speech writers who came before. 27 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: So your past, starting as an intern, did you have 28 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: your sight set on being a speech writer or were 29 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,919 Speaker 1: there other paths that maybe you were pursuing in that time. 30 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: I didn't have my stem being a speech writer at first. 31 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: After college, I worked for Ted Kennedy for four years, 32 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: which was which was just a fantastic learning experience, and 33 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: I eventually started writing speeches for him, and that's when 34 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: the Obama campaign came calling. I just sort of fell 35 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: into it. But it was something I had a knack 36 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: for and something I just constantly improved that over the years, 37 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: mostly because Brock Obama was a good teacher as he 38 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: was a writer. But it was there the years of 39 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: working Protetic Kennedy that really sort of shaped the way 40 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: I viewed politics and what makes them so important and 41 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: how to tell a good story. So as you were 42 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: writing Grace. Did it take you personally back to those 43 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: moments of those heated Oval office debates? Absolutely? Absolutely. The 44 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: hardest part about writing Grace was breaking myself of President 45 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,839 Speaker 1: Obama's voice, just because we had worked so closely together 46 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: for fourteen years that I found myself writing like he would. 47 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: I needed to walk away and kind of remember who 48 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: exactly I was. But it took me right back into 49 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: those days, and I interviewed a bunch. I interviewed the President, 50 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of other people on staff, just to try 51 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: to remember all the stories and events we went through, 52 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: because that was those ten days were so colossal in 53 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: the in the arc of American life that it's just 54 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: when we were living through it in real time, we're 55 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: basically just transcribe right, and a whole bunch of speeches 56 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: and make sense of the world. But only in retrospect 57 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: to those ten days really makes sense to me, and 58 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: I got to think sleep was really not an option 59 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: that existent. No. One of my favorite passages in the 60 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: book actually described what an all nighter in the West 61 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: Wing is like, because it's it's a pretty strange place 62 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: after midnight, but also just trying to find the words 63 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: and struggling and then what that's like, you know, how 64 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: how how on earth do you find the right words 65 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: for you know, this eulogy in Charleston. He wanted to 66 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: talk about race and Confederate flag and gun violence, and 67 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: it's just it's all it's all fraught and difficult. And 68 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: as a white speech writer, right for the first black president, 69 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: you're just weighing all sorts of different stuff and there 70 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: are plenty times where you just don't feel up to 71 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: the task. Uh, and you don't get to sleep. Can 72 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: you describe the editing process. There's been much talked about 73 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: by others, but you were right in the heat of battle. 74 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: So what was the process like of editing the speech 75 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: with the President Obama? Yeah, the way he viewed editing 76 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: is it's writing. It's just a part of the writing process. 77 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: He really viewed speech writing as a collaboration. Is he 78 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: didn't need something perfect from us and he could just 79 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: go up and read. He wanted something he could work 80 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 1: with and edit and revise, write and make better. And 81 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: you know, we as speech writers always wanted to impress it. 82 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: We wanted to make that first draft perfect. We just 83 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: couldn't always get it there. But he would dive in 84 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: with his pen. You know, his his photographer, Pete Susa 85 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: has put out all sorts of photos showing this. But 86 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: he would really get in. He'd rework things. And you know, 87 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: in the Charleston eulogy, which is kind of the centerpiece 88 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: of the book Grace, he tore up the last two 89 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: pages figuratively. He just drew a big line through each 90 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: of him. But he'd never done that to me before. 91 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: He heavily marked up the first few pages but just 92 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: tossed the rest and rewrote it long hand in three hours. 93 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of like Michael Jordan's dunk on 94 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: you repeatedly. But true to the kind of boss he 95 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: was and the kind of collaborator he was, you know, 96 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: he could have just told me I screwed up. Here's 97 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: here's this, gon make my edits and get lost. But 98 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: he sat down for about a half hour around midnight 99 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: in the White House. He walked me through everything he'd 100 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: done and why, and that's not my spirits. You know. 101 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: I apologize because I felt like I'd sailed in a 102 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: pretty profound way. And he said, look, brother, we're collaborators. 103 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: You gave me exactly what I needed. To work with. Here, 104 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: you'll you'll see some of your work and what I rewrote. 105 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: But that's importantly. When you've been thinking about these issues, 106 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, race and equality for forty years, you'll know 107 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: what you want to say too. Was President Obama the 108 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: type that if you were in the midst of this 109 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: process and you guys were stuck, maybe on a particular 110 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: direction of a speech, Was he the type that would say, hey, 111 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: let's go take a walk and talk about it, just 112 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: to sort of clear the air and change the scenery. Yes. Yeah, 113 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: we'd take a walk around the south lawn, around the 114 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: driveway that walks around it, just to kind of get 115 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: through it. I mean usually usually we stay in the oval, 116 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: just because he probably almost he probably had a meeting, 117 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: you know, starting in two minutes. But we would do that, 118 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: and we do it on We do it on Air 119 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: Force One, we do it in other cities. A change 120 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: of senior is always a big help. But I just 121 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: think a lot of walks on my own when I 122 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: got stuck, or i'd talk to my team, or i'd 123 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: talk to my wife, and we all just kind of 124 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: helped each other through. And are you doing some post 125 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: presidential collaboration with President Obama. I just left working for 126 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: him last year. I'll still check in from time to time, 127 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: and then you know, I'm always available if he ever 128 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: needs any help. Right now, I'm beyond this book. I'm 129 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: actually on campus as we speak at Northwestern University. I've 130 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: classed this morning. I teach a speech writing course to seniors, 131 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: and then I have my own speech writing firm called 132 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: ten Ways. So those are the things that really take 133 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: up my time. Well, the students are very fortunate to 134 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: have you, and we're fortunate to have you on taking 135 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: a walk Cody Keenan, thank you for your time and 136 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: your generosity. Not thanks so much, good luck on the 137 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: book I appreciate. Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available 138 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.