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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature, feature production of I Heart Radio. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology

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Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show Where's Your

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Speaker 1: Table Manners, Etiquette is a matter of perspective and species,

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Speaker 1: from flamingos with topsy turvy eating habits to the goats

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Speaker 1: who have more of an arboreal take on dining. You'll

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Speaker 1: learn how to dine with all the animals and how

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Speaker 1: to politely hold your termite stick depending on your chimpanzee, Hosts, tastes,

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Speaker 1: discover this and more as we answer the age old

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Speaker 1: question can Australia's version of the trash eating raccoon fly?

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Speaker 1: Of course they can. Joining me today is food writer,

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Speaker 1: host of the podcast smart Mouth, and expert on all

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Speaker 1: things edible, Katherine Spires. Welcome, Thank you so much. I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited to talk about this. I had you on

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Speaker 1: a long time ago, and I I'm trying to remember

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Speaker 1: exactly what we talked about. It was food related, it

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Speaker 1: was I think it was about animals that ate dirt

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Speaker 1: um or or weird weird eating weird foods that animals ate. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this sounds familiar, Yes, and I believe we did talk

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Speaker 1: about her ducans on that or like a bird stuffed

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Speaker 1: inside birds stuffed inside birds. Quite possibly, yes, I mean

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Speaker 1: people love talking about those, so there's no reason why

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't have. Know we we definitely would have. And

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Speaker 1: then we did drink some dirt flavored soda, I believe, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which I still can't believe. Like you managed to track

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Speaker 1: down dirt flavored soda, you know, it was surprisingly easy.

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Speaker 1: This was back when I was still in l A

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Speaker 1: And there was a like a soda shop in Westwood

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Speaker 1: that just had all sorts of weird sodas. They had

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Speaker 1: like barf soda and cat peas soda. Yeah. I just

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Speaker 1: saw at it on the dirt flavored one because that

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Speaker 1: seemed like the least likely to make us throw up. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: good choice. But today we're talking about the table manners

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Speaker 1: of some very interesting animals. I mean, table manners is

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Speaker 1: very cultural, even with people like you know, the kinds

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Speaker 1: of forks and spoons you use, if you use you know,

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Speaker 1: cloth napkins, or if you're like me and you just

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Speaker 1: tear up some paper towels and rubbed your face with it,

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Speaker 1: it is very It's it depends on your culture. It

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Speaker 1: depends on sort of where you are even within a country,

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Speaker 1: and uh, your your individual upbringing. And it's a very

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Speaker 1: there is no one set of table manners for humanity

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Speaker 1: even Yeah, that's right. And it's like gets even more

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Speaker 1: intense than that, because I would say table manners can

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Speaker 1: also include things like bodily functions and their appropriateness at

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Speaker 1: said table, which I think it's interesting, Yeah, exactly, and

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Speaker 1: slurping for instance, Um, stuff like that. Etiquette, like in

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Speaker 1: in the Western world was definitely conceived as something as

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Speaker 1: like a unifier, which speaks to like how homogeneous people

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Speaker 1: can sometimes be, because if you're like looking at the

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Speaker 1: whole world, there's no way to have like universal table manners.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and I mean, you know, no right way really,

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Speaker 1: although sometimes in the West people like to think that

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Speaker 1: their way is the right way. But yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it is, Uh, it is. It's just highly individualized, and

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Speaker 1: part of it's just going to be sort of by chance,

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Speaker 1: like depending on you know, sort of your culture's history,

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Speaker 1: and part of it is based on your cuisine, Like

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Speaker 1: what you eat is going to determine how you eat it. Totally, yes,

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Speaker 1: and we mind this is not only the case with humans,

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Speaker 1: but very much the case with animals. Their individual eating

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Speaker 1: style is determined to buy so many interesting factors, their diet,

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Speaker 1: their evolutionary history. We'll even find out later in the

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Speaker 1: show that within a single species you can have different

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Speaker 1: eating habits, different manners, which I think is really fascinating

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Speaker 1: because we sometimes think of animals as just these automatons

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Speaker 1: that have have been pre programmed with some instincts and

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Speaker 1: you lit them loose and they just do those things.

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Speaker 1: But in fact, they seem to be able to learn

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Speaker 1: and have cultures of their own. Yeah. I feel like

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Speaker 1: this has probably been talked about on your show before,

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Speaker 1: but having all these videos at our fingertips of like

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Speaker 1: animals doing cute things has really changed my relationship with them,

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Speaker 1: because when you see like a chicken getting excited about

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Speaker 1: seeing their human and hugging their human, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they like think about things, Yeah, something like eating habits, right,

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Speaker 1: like the way that we eat. It's something so pivotal

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Speaker 1: to our existence. I guess that it's so important, Like

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Speaker 1: we celebrate our holidays mostly with stuff that we eat,

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Speaker 1: with ways that we eat, eating traditions, and the fact

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Speaker 1: that animals will have their little individual ways of eating

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Speaker 1: as well. It's like, yeah, they have their own little

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Speaker 1: personal worlds, their personal lives and and habits and and

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Speaker 1: yeah it is. It is makes us, at least for me,

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Speaker 1: it makes me sort of feel much more like they

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Speaker 1: are fully realized beings. Yeah, no, me too, absolutely. So

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Speaker 1: we're first going to talk about one of the loveliest

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Speaker 1: animals in the animal Kingdom, very flamboyant, very fancy, the flamingo.

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Speaker 1: They are so great. And this picture you're showing me

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Speaker 1: of them, I thought was fake, Like I thought it

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Speaker 1: was plastic. I didn't realize like how shiny flamingos are. Well,

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Speaker 1: the what's interesting is they're very shiny in that picture

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Speaker 1: because we're it's shot underwater, and because their feathers have

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Speaker 1: these water resistant oil on it, they will when they

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Speaker 1: are underwater. They have this like glistening shiny appearance because

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Speaker 1: there's probably some air trapped in between their feathers and

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Speaker 1: the water, and so that reflects light and makes them

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Speaker 1: very shiny and luminous and even more spectacular than out

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Speaker 1: above the water. Very beautiful. Yes, they are wonderfully pink.

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Speaker 1: They are found all over the world. They're found in

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Speaker 1: fresh brackish or salt water aquatic habitats in Africa, Asia, Europe,

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Speaker 1: and the America's so they are almost a cosmopolitan bird.

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Speaker 1: There are six species of flamingo uh. And you know,

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Speaker 1: while it is true you may have heard that a

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Speaker 1: group of flamingos is called a flamboyance, bio biologists generally

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Speaker 1: don't use those like funny terms for groups of things,

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Speaker 1: like they generally don't say like a murder of crows

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Speaker 1: or something, or a flamboyance of flamingos. They will they'll

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Speaker 1: just say flock. So I don't actually know who comes

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Speaker 1: up with these goofy animal names, but I think they

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Speaker 1: should probably be stopped. Stop them now before it gets

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Speaker 1: two out of hand. But yeah, so flamingos have those

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Speaker 1: wonderful pinky whitish feathers. They have long legs, perfect for

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Speaker 1: waiting in water. They have that long s shaped neck

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Speaker 1: and that big curved, downturned beak that has that much

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Speaker 1: deeper lower half of the beak and sort of it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a very interestingly shaped beak. It looks kind

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Speaker 1: of like a scoop. Uh, And that's actually exactly what

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Speaker 1: it is. Um. They will actually use that beak to

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Speaker 1: scoop up water that contains their preferred diet of brine,

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Speaker 1: shrimp and blue green algae. But first let's talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about their anatomy, because these are weird birds.

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Speaker 1: Like they're very they're so beloved and ubiquitous, but if

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Speaker 1: you like take a step back and you really look

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Speaker 1: at them with fresh eyes, you see just such a weird,

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Speaker 1: awkward looking animal. Yeah. Yeah, And I think the fact

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Speaker 1: that like there uses lawn ornaments so frequently really speaks

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Speaker 1: to like how odd they are. So you don't have

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Speaker 1: like a lot of like pigeon decorative elements around the house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, I mean, you know, you don't really need

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Speaker 1: to look too far for a pigeon, So putting up

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Speaker 1: pigeons as decorations it seems a little bit like guilding

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Speaker 1: the lily there, the little the pigeon lily. But yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: so they are very strange looking, and those lawn ornaments

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Speaker 1: they are typically it is the titular flamingo standing on

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Speaker 1: one leg with the other leg kind of bent backwards

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Speaker 1: and sort of just resting there. And this common misconception

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Speaker 1: that flamingoes or even all birds have knees that been backwards.

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Speaker 1: What you what you see there that looks like their

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Speaker 1: knee is actually their ankle which is bending totally normally,

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Speaker 1: just like our ankles bend. Oh I see, Oh that

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Speaker 1: changes everything actually out of a balance. Yeah, so they

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Speaker 1: have those ankles there. They do have knees, but you

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Speaker 1: can typically not really see them. They're usually up close

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Speaker 1: to their body, usually covered with feathers. And yeah, they

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Speaker 1: can and do stand on one leg. They like to

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Speaker 1: rest that way. The question of why they do that

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Speaker 1: is still not fully understood, but the leading theory is

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Speaker 1: that it conserves energy, which seems a little odd. If

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Speaker 1: you do yoga or any kind of balancing, you know,

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Speaker 1: it is actually pretty difficult to balance on one leg.

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Speaker 1: But the way they may be able to do it

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Speaker 1: is that they can lock a leg in place and

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Speaker 1: just balance on this locked leg like they're sitting on

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Speaker 1: a stool. And somehow they are using less muscle activity

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Speaker 1: by sort of just sitting back on this one locked

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Speaker 1: stool than they would be standing on two legs, which

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Speaker 1: is very strange, but I suppose it works for them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: good for them. Also, flamingos can fly. We mostly see

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Speaker 1: them sort of waiting sticking their heads underwater, standing around.

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Speaker 1: But they are good flyers. They migrate between aquatic habitats,

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Speaker 1: especially in areas where the wet and dry seasons change,

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Speaker 1: and they need to migrate in order to basically follow

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Speaker 1: the food source that will come with an aquatic habitat.

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Speaker 1: In fact, they are such good flyers. An infamous flamingo

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Speaker 1: escaped the Kansas Zoo in two thousand and five and

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Speaker 1: was found in two thousand and nineteen, fourteen years later

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Speaker 1: in Texas, living the free life of a pink cowboy.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, oh, I have so many questions. So

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Speaker 1: was it tagged or something? Is that how they knew

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Speaker 1: it was the same one they I you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it was tagged. It may have been.

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Speaker 1: But the way they figured it out was people in

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Speaker 1: Texas recorded this flamingo and like sent video of it,

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Speaker 1: and the Kansas Zoo basically was able to say, yep,

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Speaker 1: that that was one of ours, because we lost a

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Speaker 1: couple of them. And that's you know, the right that

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Speaker 1: that that there looks like a flamingo. To me, that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: And was it living like was it feeding itself or

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Speaker 1: were people feeding it? It was feeding itself, so it

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Speaker 1: had found some an aquatic habitat. I think it is

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Speaker 1: either by a river or um a saltwater habitatat and

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Speaker 1: it was able to, Yeah, just take care of itself

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Speaker 1: for those fourteen years. That's amazing, Yeah, it is. It

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Speaker 1: is amazing. So flamingos are actually surprisingly hardy. Their legs

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Speaker 1: are really tough, and they can wade in very alkaline water,

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Speaker 1: so very acidic water. That is not you if we

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Speaker 1: tried to wade in this water, we'd not be having

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Speaker 1: a good time. It would burn our skin. But for

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Speaker 1: the flamingos, they are able to tolerate it, and it

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Speaker 1: actually helps them keep their nests safe, so they can,

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Speaker 1: like sometimes they will find it nesting grounds that are

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Speaker 1: surrounded by this really spicy water and it will protect

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Speaker 1: them from predators. Oh that's so cool. Yeah, so can

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Speaker 1: flamingos can, like one flamingo, go from saltwater to fresh

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Speaker 1: water and vice versa and have an equally good time.

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Speaker 1: It really just depends on whether that aquatic habitat has

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Speaker 1: enough of their food source. I think they tend to

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Speaker 1: like salt or brackish water because that tends to have

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Speaker 1: the most in terms of their preferred diet, which is

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Speaker 1: brine shrimp and blue green algae, but they do also

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Speaker 1: eat crustaceans, insect, larva, and mollusks. So if they can

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Speaker 1: find food in that area that they preferred diet, it

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Speaker 1: will be fine, whether it's brackish or saltwater or fresh water.

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Speaker 1: I see, these guys are really cool. Yeah, and you

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Speaker 1: know what, so onto their table manners, they are very

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Speaker 1: strange eaters. They actually eat upside down, so they have

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Speaker 1: those long necks and they will dunk their heads underwater,

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Speaker 1: flip their heads upside down, and they will suck in

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Speaker 1: some water that will contain that blue green algae, the

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Speaker 1: brine shrimp, uh, you know, any little critter that they

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Speaker 1: can suck up in there. And similar to actually baling whale,

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Speaker 1: they will push out the muddy water that they don't

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Speaker 1: want to eat through a filter and so they can

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Speaker 1: eat just the food and not the muddy water that

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Speaker 1: they've sort of churned up. And so they are actually

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Speaker 1: filter feeders just like baling whales. Where is their filter

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Speaker 1: It is inside their beaks. So their beaks are covered

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Speaker 1: with hairy bristles called lamale, which cover their tongues and

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Speaker 1: mouth and they can just kind of push the that food,

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Speaker 1: or they can push that water through those hairy bristles

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Speaker 1: and it will filter out the delicious, delectable brine shrimp, algae,

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Speaker 1: and insect larva that they actually want to be eating. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that makes it easier that it's like part of

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Speaker 1: their biology to do that. But then what is there, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, respiratory system upside how do they swallow

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Speaker 1: while upside down? Um, I mean they breathe normally, They

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Speaker 1: will surface and breathe normally. They can you know, close

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Speaker 1: off there. You know, they aren't sucking in the water.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like if you took a dunked your

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Speaker 1: head in a bowl of soup room temperature soup, not

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Speaker 1: hot soup, took a bunch of the soup in your mouth,

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Speaker 1: and then sort of you didn't want to eat the

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Speaker 1: broth for some reason, even though the broth is usually

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Speaker 1: the best part, and you just pushed all of the

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Speaker 1: broth through your teeth and then you had this, uh

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Speaker 1: you know, all the carrots and chicken chunks and noodles

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Speaker 1: and whatever, and then that's the part that you just swallow,

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Speaker 1: and you can swallow it underwater, you could pull your

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Speaker 1: head back up and swallow it above the water, so

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Speaker 1: you are you're not breathing in the soup. And the

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Speaker 1: flamingo just basically live in their very own soup that

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Speaker 1: they they will eat. Yeah, and because their diet is

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Speaker 1: often made up of primarily brine shrimp and blue green algae,

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Speaker 1: they are this lovely shade of pink because brian shrimp

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Speaker 1: and blue green algae are very rich in carotenoids and

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Speaker 1: carotenoids they are responsible for producing that lovely pink coloration

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Speaker 1: in um birds and in flamingos. That is, I'm jealous

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Speaker 1: of birds because I think those turn us turn humans

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Speaker 1: more orange. Yeah, if they turned us this lovely perlescent

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Speaker 1: pink could be great. Yeah. So you've probably heard of

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Speaker 1: the the tail of like if you eat enough carrots

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Speaker 1: you will turn orange, and that is actually somewhat true.

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Speaker 1: You would need to eat just an enormous, sickening amount

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Speaker 1: of carrots for that to happen. You would need to

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Speaker 1: eat just I mean, I feel like it would be

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Speaker 1: a lethal amount of carrots. I'm not even sure if

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Speaker 1: that's possible to die from carrot overdose, but I mean

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Speaker 1: I once thought I was gonna die because I I

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Speaker 1: was younger and learning how to be healthy, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, all right, so today I'm gonna eat this

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Speaker 1: whole bowl of carrots because that's healthy. Carrots are healthy,

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Speaker 1: so eating more carrots healthiest, and so I ate just

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Speaker 1: a massive amount of carrots, and then I was lying

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Speaker 1: on the floor with stomach cramps because apparently if you

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Speaker 1: suddenly eat a bunch of high fiber vegetables, it will

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Speaker 1: hurt your stomach massively. And I thought maybe I was

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Speaker 1: gonna die. God, that is so very youthful of you

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Speaker 1: to be like more is better, and now I don't

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Speaker 1: feel well, so clearly I'm going to die. By youthful,

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Speaker 1: I mean like twenty two just for reference, Uh, so

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Speaker 1: I mean that counts. I was like, I was learning,

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Speaker 1: learning to cook on my own, learning to sort of

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Speaker 1: graduate from boxed macaroni to actually cooking real food, and

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Speaker 1: I thought, you know, more carrots, the better, and then

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Speaker 1: I almost almost overdosed on carrots. Didn't turn orange though,

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Speaker 1: did not turn orange because if you want, if you

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Speaker 1: want to get that orange glow from carrots, you would

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Speaker 1: have to eat them every massive quantities of them every

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Speaker 1: day for that to ever start to basically those carrots

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Speaker 1: andoids to start to affect your pigment. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: you could drink it and turn orange more quick. It's

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Speaker 1: a good question. Could you Could you overdose on carrot juice?

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Speaker 1: I guess is the question. Yeah, it seems like it

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Speaker 1: would maybe be less painful because liquids tend to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's easier to just pass through, right right, right, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, in any case, I recommend a very diet

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Speaker 1: and to try not to turn yourself orange by overdosing

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Speaker 1: with carrots, even if it is strictly speaking possible. You know, hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: you know there's spray on tan which is probably less

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Speaker 1: painful than eating buckets of carrots a day. This is

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Speaker 1: such good advice. So that actually explains why some flamingoes

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Speaker 1: that you will see will be white, especially if you

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Speaker 1: go to a zoo, you may see a lot of

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Speaker 1: white flamingos because they are flamingos who are not able

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Speaker 1: to get enough carotenoids from their diet. And while zoos

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Speaker 1: may try to give them a good diet, it is

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Speaker 1: really difficult to replicate their natural diet, and this actually

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Speaker 1: does impact the flamingos health, and the pink color is

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Speaker 1: actually what's called an honest signal in terms of sexual selection,

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Speaker 1: because female flamingos actually, in fact this is I think

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Speaker 1: pretty uh in terms of these sexes. They both will

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Speaker 1: judge each other based on their pinkness, so you know,

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Speaker 1: some some sex equality there. They look for a partner

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Speaker 1: who is very pink, because that pink coloration means that

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Speaker 1: that flamingo has been eating healthily, been getting plenty of

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Speaker 1: those tasty Brian shrimp and blue green algae, and it

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Speaker 1: is a good sign that this potential mate is very

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Speaker 1: healthy and so less pink flamingos may have less success

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Speaker 1: with mating. But the babies that they have are born

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Speaker 1: as sort of grayish white. They are not born pink.

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Speaker 1: They will only turn pink after they start to mature

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Speaker 1: and get enough of those carotenoids from their diet. I

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Speaker 1: see very interesting. I feel really bad for the the

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Speaker 1: flamingos kept in zoos now. I mean, one wanted to

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Speaker 1: escape so badly that I went to Texas and they

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Speaker 1: aren't the right color for doing it. But yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: so baby flamingos are born that sort of grayish white.

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Speaker 1: They get their pink color from their diet, and they

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Speaker 1: are actually fed something very special as babies, regurgitated red

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Speaker 1: crop milk. So uh, mammals aren't the only ones that

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Speaker 1: can produce milk, they just birds have a different way

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Speaker 1: of doing it. So uh, Flamingos of both sexes produce

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Speaker 1: a bright red crop milk from glands that line the

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Speaker 1: entire digestive tract. So unlike mammals who produce milk from

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Speaker 1: their mammaries, um flamingos and other birds like pigeons will

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Speaker 1: produce a protein rich substance specifically for their offspring that

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Speaker 1: they can regurgitate. And this crop milk of the flamingos

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Speaker 1: contains red and white blood cells, protein, and fat, all

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Speaker 1: perfect for a growing chick. And as they consume more

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Speaker 1: of these carotenoids, they will eventually turn pink in adulthood. Wow. Wow,

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Speaker 1: So I understand that this like in and of itself,

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Speaker 1: is not more disgusting than like drinking the milk of

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Speaker 1: other species, but it's a brand new idea to me,

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Speaker 1: and I'm really struggling, like feeling really sickened by it.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot it probably I'm gonna I'm gonna guess now,

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Speaker 1: I've never smelled flamingo crop milk, but based on the

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Speaker 1: smell of like just the flamingos at the San Diego Zoo,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say the crop milk probably doesn't smell great.

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00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: It's probably not a good smell. Yeah. I try not

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00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 1: to think too much about milk in general, Like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't smart. I don't actually drink that

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Speaker 1: much milk. I I do eat ice cream though, which

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Speaker 1: is derived from milk, and I do eat cheese. Uh

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Speaker 1: that slight distance from milk of with the cheese and

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Speaker 1: the ice cream does help me. But when I think

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00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: too hard about milk, it starts to get to me,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm just thinking about like man, this this

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00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: came out of a cow or a goat, like right

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00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: out of them, right out of their udders. Yeah you know, yeah, yeah,

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00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: it's a lot of strange also snarly. Yeah, it's just

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00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: it's this like this weird fatty protein subs to and

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00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: it came right out right out of that, right out

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Speaker 1: of that animal. So good, it's so good. What are

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Speaker 1: we supposed to do? I know there's nothing we can do. Um,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe we should treat the cows good on the farms.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, you know, maybe maybe we should. No, yes,

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Speaker 1: if we're being honest, like I think about this all

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Speaker 1: the time. I don't in and of itself have a

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00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: problem with eating animals or their products. It's but it's

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00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: modern farming. Yeah, I agree, I think that. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think if we are to avail ourselves of animal resources,

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Speaker 1: the very least we can do is to treat them

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Speaker 1: really well. And we don't do that so much. So

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00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: we need to need to fix that. Um because I

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Speaker 1: think it's going to take a while to put a

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Speaker 1: crop milk ice cre him on the market. I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, well those baby baby flamingos would love it, right, Yes,

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00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: would be so good for that. Speaking of garbage food,

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Speaker 1: wild cockatoos in Australia have learned to raid trash cans

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Speaker 1: for food. Okay, okay, So are they like raccoons with

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Speaker 1: wings exactly? Yes, So sulfur crusted cockatoos are a popular

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Speaker 1: pet but they are of course actual wild animals and

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Speaker 1: they can be found in Australia in large wild flocks.

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Speaker 1: So sulfur crusted cockatoos they are that snowy white bird

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Speaker 1: with the little crest on the top of their head

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Speaker 1: that is tipped in yellow, and they have grayish black beaks,

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Speaker 1: and they are highly highly social, highly intelligent. And I

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Speaker 1: always whenever I talk about these like wild parrots or cockatoos,

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Speaker 1: I like to inform people that they are very difficult pets.

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Speaker 1: They are expert here pets. Uh it is not pet

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Speaker 1: to get out a whim. They really uh they have

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Speaker 1: I think like the intelligence of a one or two

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Speaker 1: year old human child. So yeah, they are very intelligent

385
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: and very social. So um. Often they will have a

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00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: lot of behavioral issues when they are made pets because

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00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: they just do not they get really bored and frustrated

388
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: and they will then you know, start start biting you.

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00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay do you think I mean, doesn't that

390
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: mean that like we shouldn't keep them as pets, because

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00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: apparently dogs have the intelligence of two year old humans

392
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: is what one study found. But they also seem to like, yes,

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00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: well it really I think, you know, this isn't going

394
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: to be another sort of zoo like answer where I

395
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: think that generally speaking, they aren't great pets. If you

396
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: if someone is a bird expert and knows what this

397
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: bird needs, uh to be happy and is willing to

398
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: basically be there for this bird and give it all

399
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 1: the attention it needs for the rest of the bird's life.

400
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, and it is it is It

401
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: would be your entire life would revolve around the birds

402
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: and making them happy. Um, then maybe it could work,

403
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: but it just to me it seems the amount of

404
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: effort it would be, like, I mean, it would be

405
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: like having a two year old for the rest of

406
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: your life. So if that's your thing, you can actually

407
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: manage that, you know, I don't think it should be illegal,

408
00:27:52,119 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: but right, well, I mean, so what is interesting these

409
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: similarity between these cockatoos and dogs is they are they're

410
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 1: very social animals, and dogs are very social. They have

411
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: had the benefit of co evolving with us for thousands

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00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: and thousands of years, and so they make actually very

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00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: good pets because they can get a lot of fulfillment. Uh,

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00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,719
Speaker 1: and they can communicate well with humans, whereas these birds

415
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: have the highly social element, but they are social with

416
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: their own species. So they are not domesticated animals. They

417
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: are wild animals that are some times tamed, but not

418
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: domesticated like a dog. And so the cockatoos found in Sydney, Australia.

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00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: While they can be found in uh suburban environments and

420
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: people's neighborhoods, they are still very wild animals. They're actually

421
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: urban adapters. So when cities take over a natural habitat,

422
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: animals have a few choices. They can move away, uh,

423
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: they can try to keep doing what they're doing, or

424
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: they can change their behavior and exploit the presence of

425
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: humans and intelligent birds, even things like rats and raccoons

426
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: will often do that. They will try to exploit the

427
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: human presence because why not, humans have already taken over

428
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: their area. They might as well do their best to

429
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: make the best out of the situation. Yeah, why not exactly.

430
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: So you know, when you see a raccoon rifling through

431
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: your trash, you may be annoyed, but look, you raccoons

432
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: were here first, and now we've got our garbage out there,

433
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: and why not avail themselves of our garbage. It's probably

434
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: not the healthiest thing for them. But you know, right, well,

435
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: so as someone who lives in l A and you

436
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: you still live here, so you know, um, there are

437
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: coyotes everywhere in l A. And are they doing the

438
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: same thing, the same adaptation thing they are. Yeah, so

439
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: I think that they are more sort of like they've adapted,

440
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: but they're not exploiting as much as some of the

441
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: other animals. So, like I would say that things like rats, raccoons, pigeons, squirrels,

442
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: they are exploitters. So they are urban exploitters. They have

443
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: figured out how to avail themselves of human infrastructure and waste,

444
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: whereas coyotes mostly try to kind of stay on the

445
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: edges of human society and then but they will uh

446
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, eat the the other urban exploiters like rats, pigeons, raccoons.

447
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: You know, maybe not a raccoon, raccoons pretty fierce, but

448
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: a baby raccoon for sure. Although well they eat they

449
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: probably what you were about to say. But yeah, they

450
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: do sometimes eat small dogs and pets. Yeah, yeah, they

451
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: totally do. An on Aslee, I don't know if we're

452
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: like watching evolution in real time, it can't possibly be

453
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: having this fast, right, But since I've moved to l

454
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: A like sixteen years ago, I feel like the canaties

455
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: have gotten boulder Like they jump into people's yards now,

456
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: they will follow if you're walking your dog on a leash,

457
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: they'll still follow you even though, like dogs right next

458
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: to a human, they're getting wild out here and smarter.

459
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: I think, well, you know, it's interesting you say that

460
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: because even though genetic evolution tends to be slow, somewhat slow,

461
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: although you know, with extreme pressures, it can definitely happen

462
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: much more quickly than you would think, Like you can

463
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: have UM with adequate pressure. Some genetic changes that happen

464
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: over uh, you know, several generations, usually not too extreme,

465
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: but some at least certainly. We can see that when

466
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: we try to like put artificial selection on an animal

467
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: in just like a few deck gids, you actually see

468
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: like some really interesting changes in their their genetics. UM.

469
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: But with coyotes you will have like, you know, fluctuations

470
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: I think in both things like kyote population and coyote

471
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: boldness based on the availability of food, on their proximity

472
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: to urban environments. And you know, coyotes are pretty smart.

473
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: They are, I think they're they I'm not sure like

474
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 1: where I would rank them next to something like a cockatoo.

475
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: Cockatoo's puzzle solving is probably better. It's always hard to

476
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: sort of compare intelligence between two different species because their

477
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: intelligence is just going to be very different it's not

478
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: necessarily better overall, it's going to be better in some

479
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: ways and worse than other ways. But coyotes um are

480
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: highly intelligent. There there are social pack animals, and so

481
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: they have um a lot of really complex behaviors. And

482
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: so it wouldn't surprise me if over sort of you know,

483
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: even over shorter periods of times, they could get bolder

484
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: or more timid based on the situation and based on

485
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: maybe even learning from their other coyote, their other pack

486
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: or their parents, learning their behavior and sort of taking

487
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: cues from that. And this is actually what is happening

488
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: with the cockatoos in Sydney. So they are learning from

489
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: each other how to open garbage cans. So certain sulfur

490
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: crusted cockatoo flocks figured this trick out. It probably started

491
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: with one or maybe a few individuals learning this and

492
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: uh then it spread to other individuals in this flock.

493
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: And like I said, cockatoos are very intelligent. They're great

494
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: puzzle solvers, so it really doesn't take too much in

495
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: terms of inspiring them to figure this out. So now

496
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: you have entire flocks of these cockatoos who understand how

497
00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: to open these garbage camps. But I am so proud

498
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: of them. I love that. I mean, I know I'm

499
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: not in Australia, so I can't be annoyed by it.

500
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: I think that is so great. And this article that

501
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: you linked to says that um garbage cans are look

502
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,959
Speaker 1: the same across all of Australia. Is that like part

503
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: of the puzzle solving that they're good at. They're like, oh,

504
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: this is a white bin with a red thing on top.

505
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: I know what that means. You know what I bet

506
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: it is. I think you're probably exactly right, because you

507
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: know they have learned that this is a source of

508
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: amazing thrown out. I don't know what is it, veggammite

509
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: what they have in Australia, and they are super into that.

510
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: I actually don't know if they like vegam might maybe

511
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: even a cockatoo was like, I don't know about this.

512
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: I like, I eat garbage, but I'm not gonna not

513
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: gonna eat vegamine. I'm sorry, I actually I don't know

514
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: that much about veggammite. Maybe it's very good. I apologize

515
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: to all my Australian listeners. I'm just teasing you. It's

516
00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: probably great and I love you guys. Yeah, that is

517
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: so funny because I think does the general public no,

518
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: Like Australians love podcasts more than any other nationality. We

519
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: have to be so careful about as east right, And

520
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Australia. I talk about Australia all

521
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: the time because they have some of the most amazing

522
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: animals there. So yeah, I got I gotta be careful

523
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: about insulting Benjamine. I'm gonna lose like of my listeners.

524
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, so so these uh, these sulfur crested cockatoos

525
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: are showing some evidence that these birds can have a

526
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: culture because it is certain flocks of these that have

527
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: figured out this garbage opening eating technique. And so you know,

528
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: you could say that these cockatoos have a culture of

529
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: you know, garbage eating, which I think is just really

530
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: interesting because we think of humans as having a culture.

531
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: But then when we try to extend that to animals, uh,

532
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's it's a harder sell to

533
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: be like, no, animals can have a culture. But in

534
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: my opinion, this is absolutely a sign of animal culture

535
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: because they're learning something like you have some innovators who

536
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: learn this and then they pass it on down the generation.

537
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: So you'll have young cockatoos, young naive cockatoos learning this

538
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: from their flock and then doing that behavior. And I

539
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: think that's a perfect description of culture. Yeah, I agree, absolutely.

540
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: Another thing, I think that's really interesting, especially because you're

541
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: bringing up your observations on coyotes in l a Um.

542
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 1: The research on these cockatoos was done using citizen science,

543
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: so residents of a community documenting the behavior of animals

544
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: that they will see in their more suburban or even

545
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: urban environment, and then they will send their findings to researchers.

546
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: And if you live in l a Um or Sydney

547
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: or I mean probably many many cities around the world,

548
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: there are if you like Google, like citizen science and

549
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: then your city, you can usually find places that you

550
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: can like send photos to or send observations too. And

551
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: they really really appreciate, uh you writing in because you

552
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: will help with their research, with their observation. So if

553
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: you see something interesting, if you take a picture of it,

554
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: you can send it into I think I Naturalist is

555
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: a really good one because I think that's um for

556
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: a lot of different regions. You can send that in

557
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: and then tag basically where you spotted this animal, and

558
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: then researchers can look up these observations for their research.

559
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, if you if you feel like helping out

560
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: with UH with animal behavioral research and you spot an animal,

561
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: um of course, never approached the animal, never try to,

562
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: you know, do your own experiment on the animal. But

563
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: if you take a picture of it or make an observation,

564
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: you can send it. Send it into like I Naturalists,

565
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 1: or like google citizen science UH with your city name,

566
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: and usually you'll you'll find some things there. And it's

567
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: really cool. It's really amazing that we can all kind

568
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: of get together and learn more about garbage rating, cockatoos

569
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: or even like coyotes in Los Angeles. I just had

570
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: the most fascist idea, but I believe in it. I

571
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: think I feel like every time you move somewhere, you

572
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: should be required to do citizen science for a year.

573
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: I'm on board with this. If you want to become

574
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: the dictator and and do this, I for one supported Okay, good,

575
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: I found my first supporter. Yeah, because people can sometimes

576
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: be so disconnected from everything around them, including the animals.

577
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: And I do think like this is such a stupid example,

578
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: but sometimes I'll hear like banging around in the little

579
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: breezeway behind my bedroom, and you would think that that

580
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: would be scary, except for I've learned by now that

581
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,919
Speaker 1: that is the resident raccoons who are, by the way,

582
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: that most enormous raccoons I've ever seen in my life.

583
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: They live in my neighborhood and it's just them, like,

584
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: I don't know why they're so loud, but they do

585
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: it all the time, and I'm not scared of it.

586
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: So like everyone who moves to a new neighborhood to

587
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: have that understanding of like the other creatures around them.

588
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we've these sort of sprawl of

589
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: human society has been pretty pretty drastic, I would say,

590
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: And so yeah, getting used to our animal neighbors, I mean,

591
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: and not seeing them as you know, pests, because like

592
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: raccoon outside is not not hurting you. You know, you

593
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: don't want to pick it up and let it scratch

594
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: your face up, but you know it's it's not hurting anyone.

595
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,439
Speaker 1: Maybe it'll make a little bit of a rucus, but

596
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: probably to them. We're making a lot of rucus with

597
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: our with our exact weird metal things with wheels and

598
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: our weird trees that buzzing sounds with big wires coming

599
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: out of them, so you know, perspective, we're the loud ones. Also,

600
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 1: one time, my dog and I were chased by a skunk,

601
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: and I keep hearing people be like, skunks don't chase

602
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I didn't make this up. I need

603
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: to report this to someone. We should understand that skunks

604
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: are piste off enough at us now that they will

605
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: chase us. Yeah. My scariest animal encounter was with a

606
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: skunk standing fully upright, like not even you know, the

607
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: back the handstand they do when they're about to spray you.

608
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: He was just like standing on his hind legs like

609
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: a person staring at me from the darkness, and for

610
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: some reason it just looked it looked like a tiny sasquatch,

611
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 1: and I and my dog and I both panicked. So I,

612
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: I for one thinks, as much as I love skunks

613
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: and I think they're amazing, if you if one of

614
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: them is standing staring at you at nighttime, it's scary. Yeah. No, absolutely.

615
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: The one that chased us was screaming to like it

616
00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: was a full experience terrified. Yeah, yeah, weird, weird. It

617
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 1: wasn't the time we got sprayed. We got sprayed by

618
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: a different skunk. This one just chased us. Yeah, I

619
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: figure it had babies or something like that. Yeah, I mean,

620
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 1: like they'll sometimes try other techniques to scare you off

621
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: other than spraying you, because you know, they would prefer

622
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: not to have to waste their their good that good

623
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: skunk juice that they've been cultivated. So like, if they can,

624
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, kind of scare you off without having to

625
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: spray you, they will, But like they will definitely spray

626
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: you if you present to them a threat, especially doggies,

627
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: because doggies don't get it. They think that they're making

628
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: a new friend. They think they're sniffing a new butt,

629
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 1: and then they're going to get sprayed in the face

630
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 1: and then it's tomato juice baths for weeks. Yeah. Yeah,

631
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: it's the worst experience I've ever had. So we have

632
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: talked about birds who will go just about everywhere but

633
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: trees to feed. So what exactly do you think we're

634
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: gonna find in a tree today? Well, if I had

635
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: to guess something that's not supposed to be in a tree,

636
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,399
Speaker 1: well that's all just a matter of perspective, because we're

637
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: gonna find some goats right in a tree. So goats

638
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 1: are wonderful climbers. Uh, and they can indeed climb trees

639
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: and they will do it. Yeah yeah, well, so goats

640
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 1: are incredible. I love pigmy goats because they're absolutely the cutest,

641
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: so cute. We had them when I was growing up,

642
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: mostly pigmy goats, but occasionally we get other kinds of goats,

643
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: and I remember not caring for Nubian goats. Um, I

644
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: don't think they're I mean, pygmies are probably more used

645
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: to humans because they're so cute, and sometimes people keep

646
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: them as like indoor pets. But Nubians are like, I

647
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: don't know why I'm here. I don't know why you're here.

648
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: They're seriously, they're like they're they're a serious. I mean,

649
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:09,919
Speaker 1: they are domestic goats, but they they mean business. Yes, yeah,

650
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: they're not here for a good time. I mean they're

651
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: there for a good time, but not for your good time.

652
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: Oh shoot, I thought it was all about me again.

653
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, so uh yeah, goats in Morocco will climb

654
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: trees to eat argon fruit. So uh. These goats are domesticated,

655
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: but like many domesticated animals found all over the world,

656
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:41,479
Speaker 1: they often are very comfortable roaming free rather than being

657
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: restricted to feeding in confinement. In fact, one might say

658
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: they prefer to be able to roam around and feed

659
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 1: in graze and engage in interesting feeding behaviors all on

660
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: their own. Imagine imagine that. So, uh yeah, this will

661
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: lead to really interesting behaviors, such as the goats climbing

662
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: trees to feed on the argon fruits. So, and this

663
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: is not just one goat hanging out in a tree.

664
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 1: This is many goats in a single tree hanging out,

665
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: which can be a really interesting site. I can't imagine

666
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: seeing this in real life. I would absolutely lose my mind.

667
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: This is so funny. It's also cute. It's also like

668
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 1: slightly menacing. There's a lot going on. If I didn't

669
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: know what this was and then I happened upon it,

670
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: I'd be like, well, I'm about to get possessed by Satan,

671
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: aren't I? Yeah? This is like what's that goat's name

672
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 1: from the Witch? Like handsome Handsome Jack or something. No,

673
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: that's from a video game. What's the goat? What's the

674
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: goat from the goat? Goat from the Witch? What's his name?

675
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: Black Philip? That's him. It's so cute. I can't. It's

676
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: really hard for me to take that horror movie seriously

677
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: because he's such a cute little goaty. I think goats

678
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: are very cute, yes, but you know, goats, they have

679
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,439
Speaker 1: a fierce personality. Like you mentioned, not all goats want

680
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: to necessarily, you know, just like hang out and cuttle

681
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: and romp around indoors. They like to be outside and

682
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: be wild and do their stuff, which in this case

683
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: for these Moroccan goats is climbing up trees, chewing on

684
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 1: these argon fruits and spitting out the seed. So herders

685
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: because again these are typically not just like or feral goats,

686
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 1: These are actually goats that belong to a goat herder.

687
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: But they will encourage their goats to climb the trees

688
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: to get more I mean it ranges the why people

689
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: like these goats to climb the trees. Sometimes it's a

690
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: good thing, sometimes it's a little more nefarious. So in

691
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: the autumn um, the you know goats like, and in

692
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: sort of the more winter months, it's a little harder

693
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: for goats to get good nutrition um, so the goat

694
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: herders will sometimes prune the trees to make it easier

695
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: for the goats to climb up there so that they

696
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: can eat the argon fruits get a little more nutrition.

697
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: And they will actually sort of cultivate these trees specifically

698
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: so that the goats can climb up when the fruit

699
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: are ripe and ready for these goats to eat them. Okay,

700
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: I love that, but reminds me of those what do

701
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: you call them? Cat? Whatever's cat or catap No, It's

702
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: like when people will build structures in their house for

703
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 1: their cat climb on or cat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, cat walks,

704
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 1: cat trees. I'm not really you know, cats, uh, cat

705
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: high rises exactly. It's just sort of the same thing.

706
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: And I understand that there's like a more basic reason

707
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: for doing it, but like to imagine some people actually

708
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: have fun like pruning these trees in a specific way.

709
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 1: It's this is adorable so far. Yes, I mean sometimes

710
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: the goat herders also gain from the goats eating the fruit.

711
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:12,919
Speaker 1: I mean, the goats are having a good time eating

712
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 1: that fruit, and the goat herders will collect the argon

713
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: seeds that they spit out, which can be pressed into

714
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: a highly valuable argon oil, which is used both in

715
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: cuisine and in cosmetic products. Yeah, I was thinking argon

716
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: oil is probably really big business right now. It's in

717
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: like it's such a selling point of so many skincare products.

718
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah, And so you know, good chance that your

719
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: argon oil was spit out by a goat. I love that. Unfortunately,

720
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: some maybe little bit less scrupulous herders will run a

721
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 1: little bit of a goat in tree racket. Uh. They

722
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 1: will encourage or manipulate the goats to stand in the

723
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: trees so that tourists can take photos of them. And

724
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: it's I mean, if they're just encouraging the goat to

725
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: go up in the tree, or hoisting up the goat

726
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: and putting it in the tree, it's probably okay. But

727
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: if the goats are tied to the tree, I don't

728
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: think that's a great time for the goat. Just I mean, yeah,

729
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: generally speaking, if the goat wants to be in the tree,

730
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: the goat will go up in the tree. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

731
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 1: I have this thing lately about leaving animals alone, Like

732
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: I always wanted to go on safari, and now I'm like, no,

733
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to go on safari, Like they don't

734
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 1: need us watching them all the time and coming into

735
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: their habitat. So yeah, no tying goats and trees. Yeah,

736
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: I mean I think that like if you see goats

737
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: hanging out and trees eating organs argon fruit, and you

738
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: want to like take a picture of them and stuff,

739
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: it's I don't think that's really hurting the goats, But yeah,

740
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: you don't want to tie them up in the trees.

741
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 1: That's probably not good. But I think from what I read,

742
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: I don't think that's like super common. I think the

743
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: most common thing is just you know, goats like to

744
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: climb up there and eat the argon seeds or the fruit,

745
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: at least the fruit that surrounds the seeds. And the

746
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:13,919
Speaker 1: interesting thing there was actually research done on the these

747
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: goats to determine whether they poop the seeds out or

748
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: they spit the seeds out, and they actually they do

749
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: indeed spit the seed out more than and they don't

750
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,720
Speaker 1: generally actually eat the seed because argon seeds are pretty

751
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: big and they're too large to comfortably pass through the

752
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: goats digestive system, so they will spit them out or

753
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: regurgitate them rather than poop them out. I see. Well,

754
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's a comfort to some argon oil enthusiasts,

755
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: I suppose, although I mean people eat that or drink

756
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: that coffee from the civit what is it? The copy

757
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:56,439
Speaker 1: look coffee that is like from the digestive digested coffee

758
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: cherries that civets will will eat and pass through, and

759
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: so that is collected from civitt poop. Yeah, but I

760
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: just learned about the process of decaffeinating coffee, and I

761
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: know not everyone drinks decaff but there's all kinds of

762
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: horrible chemicals involved, and so I'm like, that's like the

763
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 1: civitt poop is the least of our lords. I actually

764
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: cannot recommend drinking the civitt poop coffee. I mean, first

765
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,399
Speaker 1: of all, it's obscenely expensive. So why Also there are

766
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: they're like unfortunately because it got so popular, probably because

767
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: of the weirdness of it. Uh, they're like these civit farms.

768
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: So instead of just like collecting the civit poop, it's

769
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: like these civits like in in this sort of farm

770
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: situation where it's kind of like kind of like the CAFOs,

771
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: like the concentrated animal feeding operations where they you know,

772
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: put them in very small uh containers and like overfeed

773
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: them so that they poop out more and that that's bad,

774
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 1: you know. So, yeah, humans are so weird, very straight,

775
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: like we cannot just be like oh this is cool,

776
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: Like we just demand more and more and more and

777
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,479
Speaker 1: don't go how like why why do we have that

778
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: as a species? I mean I could I could just

779
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: say because of money, but that's probably a little bit

780
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: of a cop out. Well someone should find out, Yeah,

781
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: someone should get on that. Why why humans so naughty

782
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: should be? That should be a study. She was such naughty,

783
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: naughty rascals. Yeah, no, it's you know, I think that

784
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 1: we can definitely how we can definitely admire animals and

785
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: even you know, even have sort of these interesting interactions

786
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: where like they eat the fruit, they like the fruit,

787
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: we want the seeds, they spit out the seeds. That's fine,

788
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,439
Speaker 1: just as long as we're not jerks about it, right yeah, which,

789
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: you know, it sounds like a lot of people, a

790
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people that manage these goats

791
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: are not jerks about so I think it's potentially okay.

792
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: You know, I have not looked into like whether it

793
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: exploits human aber. Maybe it does and that would make

794
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: me sad, but I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, so so far,

795
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,399
Speaker 1: so good in fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Otherwise we need

796
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: the goats and people to form a union, you know,

797
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't be cool. Yeah, I would. If I unionized with

798
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 1: a goat, I would feel extremely, like, very secure, because

799
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: I know that goat would like have my back. Yeah.

800
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: I gotta imagine that once a goat says they'll do something,

801
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: they really commit to it. Yeah. Oh absolutely, I mean

802
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,760
Speaker 1: just very very stubborn. They could sit in a tree

803
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: and be like, you can't. You can't break this strike

804
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: because you'd have to come up in this tree first,

805
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: which you can't. Yes, they have such good organizing tactics. Yeah, yeah, um.

806
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: And so what's interesting about this is these are, of

807
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: course domesticated goats. These are goats that have been selectively

808
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: bred to be insticated to be better of farm animals, um,

809
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: to make it easier for us to collect their milk,

810
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: you know, even use them for meat. So the question

811
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 1: is like, did these argon trees like the fact that

812
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: they spit out the seeds means that they are able

813
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: to do some seed dispersal, which is potentially good for

814
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: the argon tree. Too many goats in the trees is

815
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: actually bad, like that can damage them or if the

816
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: goats can get in the trees before the fruit is ripe.

817
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: So the question is like, do these are these argon trees?

818
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: Could they have evolved sort of with the goats in mind,

819
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: because goats, the domesticated goats, are a lot younger than

820
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: the trees, like the trees have been around a lot longer.

821
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: So if the argon trees had any sort of evolutionary

822
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: relationship with goats, it would have to be with their ancestors.

823
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: And the original wild goats from which we bred domesticated

824
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: goats did act actually originate in the Mediterranean basin, which

825
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 1: includes Morocco, and so it is possible that these wild

826
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: goat ancestors did actually climb these argon trees and chew

827
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 1: up fruits and spit them out, just like the modern

828
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: domesticated goats. In fact, close relatives of the wild goat,

829
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: the Ibex dusk, sometimes climb trees to graze, which indicates

830
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: that the tree climbing of domesticated goats maybe a wild

831
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 1: behavior that they've retained over all of this time of domestication.

832
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: That is just very cool, these modern goats doing ancient things. Yeah,

833
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 1: I like that for them. Yeah, I like it for

834
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: them too. Good for you. Goats. Also, I don't know

835
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: what breed of goats these are, but these goats the

836
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 1: you have pictures of are so shaggy, they're very cute.

837
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 1: I mean I think they are. They might. I mean

838
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: basically there are there are a few Moroccan breeds of goats.

839
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, they're just they're just Moroccan domesticated goats. I

840
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: think there may be like two or three breeds that

841
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: tend to tend to be in these herds, so uh yeah,

842
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean they're they're all all domesticated goats,

843
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,479
Speaker 1: I think are derived from the same line of goats. Uh.

844
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:24,399
Speaker 1: And then they of course, it's kind of like dog

845
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 1: breeds how like, even though they're all derived from sort

846
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: of the same line of lineage of original uh, domesticated dogs,

847
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: we have a huge diversity of them because of how

848
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 1: strange we are when domesticating them. So we have the

849
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 1: Chihuahua and then the Great Dane and they're both dogs. Um. Similarly,

850
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: I think these goats, uh, you know, they they are

851
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: of these just the general domesticated goat lineage, but they

852
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: are specifically a few breeds of Moroccan goats. Okay, I

853
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: they're nice, they are very flack. So table manners can

854
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 1: be wild, like the flamingos who eat upside down and

855
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: spit out muddy water, or goats who eat up in

856
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 1: trees and spit out seeds because there's a lot of

857
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: spitting that they do. But we have also talked a

858
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 1: little bit about table manners and culture. So uh, we

859
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: talked about those sulfur crested cockatoos that seem to have

860
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 1: a bit of culture of learning how to open garbage

861
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: cans from their flock. Uh. And humans, of course, as

862
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: we talked about, have different kinds of table manners across cultures,

863
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: from how you hold your utensils to what kind of

864
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: utensils you use. It's all sort of there. There's a

865
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: huge diversity in terms of food culture and what is

866
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: considered rude in one culture may be considered polite and

867
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: another like like you were mentioning earlier, Catherine about like

868
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: burping and slurping. Mm hmm. Yeah. And so two of

869
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 1: my interests are one is etiquette books and one is

870
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: advice columns. And something that I've seen come up a

871
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: couple of times is when Americans go to Europe and

872
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: vice versa, and some people. I'm remembering in particular this

873
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: letter about someone with New German colleagues and the Germans

874
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: were mean to this American about the way the hands

875
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 1: in which she was holding her knife and her fork.

876
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: And I'm left handed, so I can never remember which

877
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: one is correct in America. But it's so interesting that

878
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: it can be that minute, like which which hand is

879
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: holding the fork? Like ultimately who cares. But at the

880
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: other hand, people can make a big deal out of

881
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: it and like shame you for it, which is not

882
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: the intention of etiquette. Yeah, and I mean here in Italy,

883
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 1: I'm still trying to learn all of the different rules

884
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: of a kid. I'm sure I break them constantly. And

885
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: it really depends to on your region. I live in

886
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: Northern Italy and southern Italy. There you have a whole

887
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: different set of etiquette and rules. And I'm, you know,

888
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: because I haven't lived in southern Italy, I don't know

889
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: too much about it. But one of my friends was

890
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: telling me about this is that like you, if you

891
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: eat everything off your plate in certain and certain locations

892
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: in southern Italy, it is a sign that you want

893
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 1: more food, so you are basically you have to leave

894
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: if you're done eating, you have to leave a little

895
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: bit on your plate, because basically what that's saying is

896
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: that you have you simply cannot eat more food, but

897
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: it was delicious and you'd like to eat more, but

898
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: you are so full you can't even finish the last

899
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: few scraps on your plate. But if you clean your

900
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: plate off, it means that you have such a good

901
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: appetite that you could eat more, and so they'll serve

902
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: you more, and you know expect that you want more.

903
00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: So that stuff is so hard. There's a Russian staurant

904
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: here in l A that I like, but the owner,

905
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: if you don't clean your whole plate will be absolutely

906
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: crust full. And it's just it's like, I don't even

907
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: know if it's cultured by culture. It might be house

908
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: by house, like whether you're supposed to finish all your

909
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: food or that one is so tough, and like, we

910
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't need all these arcane etiquette rules if we were

911
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: allowed in every society to just be like, I'm not

912
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: very hungry right now, but sometimes you aren't supposed to

913
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, yeah, I mean it is. It's so

914
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: it's very tricky. Well, just as humans have different rules

915
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 1: of etiquette based on your country, the specific location in

916
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: your country, your culture, even your own family. It's just

917
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 1: so so many different types of etiquette. This is the

918
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: case for our cousins, the chimpanzee. Uh So, chimpanzees are

919
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: our evolutionary cousins that you know you may not want

920
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 1: to invite to dinner, But we are a laden and

921
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 1: they are very complex eaters with a very diet there omnivores.

922
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: They are also highly intelligent, highly social, and they are

923
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 1: capable of using tools. And so researchers wondered if all

924
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 1: chimpanzees have the same eating habits, used the same tools, essentially,

925
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: whether they use the same utensils, whether they have the

926
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: same manners, or if they could differ based on their population.

927
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 1: So they presented two different chimpanzees from different populations with

928
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: a food puzzle, so thin holes filled with honey. Basically,

929
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: they drilled these thin holes in like I think a

930
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: piece of wood or or or some other solid block,

931
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: and then filled it with honey, which chimpanzees love. Who

932
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:54,439
Speaker 1: doesn't love honey? I love honey. Um. And so one

933
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: group of chimps is like one population of chimps tended

934
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: to use their fingers or roll up leaves to get

935
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: at the honey, whereas the other separate chimp population tended

936
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: to use sticks instead. And so they found that this

937
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 1: actually correlated to their habits, like when they're just generally

938
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: eating anything. So in one population they tend to use

939
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 1: their fingers or they use rolled up leaves as their

940
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: tools to get like termites out of a mound, whereas

941
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 1: the other population would tend to use sticks as their utensil.

942
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: And so these two different separate groups would have different

943
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: ways of solving this puzzle based on the etiquette basically

944
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: of their their own population. That is so cool. That

945
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 1: is so interesting to hear about. And I guess like

946
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be so like blown away by it because

947
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 1: we know that humans use different utensils. But this is

948
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 1: really cool. I like knowing that. Yeah, it is cool.

949
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: I mean it's I think it is good too. It's

950
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: humbling to remember that we aren't We are special as

951
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: a species, but we're not as special maybe as we

952
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: think in terms of uh like that every aspect of

953
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 1: human culture is not completely unique, right right? Yes? And

954
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: what's so what's interesting with the chimpanzees is that they

955
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: probably excel on two fronts, both on individual problem solving

956
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 1: and social learning. So if you have a naive chimp

957
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: chimpoo has not had the opportunity to learn from other chimpanzees,

958
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 1: they will figure out tool use on their own. Um,

959
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,959
Speaker 1: but they are also very good at learning and they're

960
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: highly social, so they will copy behaviors. So these chimpanzees

961
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: will copy these behaviors, not because it is the only

962
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: way for them to learn how to use a tool,

963
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: because they can learn on their own, but it is

964
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: because they are really optimized for being highly social. So

965
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 1: even though they are capable of learning how to figure

966
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 1: out tools on their own, they tend to go with

967
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: what the other chimpanzees in their own group are doing,

968
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 1: so they will they prefer basically to learn maybe from

969
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: their mother or from their peers. Then they would do

970
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 1: just like trying to haphazardly learn on their own, which

971
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: is exactly what we did exactly. Yeah, Like, we can

972
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: figure out problems on our own, but it is so

973
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: much easier and so much better to learn from each other. Yeah. Yeah,

974
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: if one of our ancestors already figured it out, let's

975
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: go with that. Well, not to be a pedant but uh,

976
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: the they aren't actually our ancestors, they are our cousins,

977
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 1: so we Oh no, I meant as humans, So I was,

978
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: I was really patronizing for no reason. It's okay, I

979
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:02,439
Speaker 1: do that all the time. It happens podcasters. Actually, did

980
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 1: you see me, like push my glasses up and like

981
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 1: go actually actually Katherine, Yes, so yes, we yes, our

982
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 1: human ancestors we we like to learn from. And you know,

983
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: I imagine like if if chimpanzees and humans had to

984
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 1: eat dinner together, that we would maybe disagree on how

985
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: to hold our you know, various implements, but you know,

986
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: we'd we'd we'd all be trying. Yeah, And like if

987
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 1: that happened, if humans could get over themselves enough to

988
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: be like this is different, we're not better, then that

989
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 1: would be illuminating as well, because it's not like about

990
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 1: us having to teach them how to do something. It's

991
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: like they actually have their own way doing it. Yeah. No,

992
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 1: I love that, And I would though also love if

993
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: like chimpanzee got really offended that you were using a

994
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 1: fork and not rolled up leaf, smack the fork out

995
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 1: of your hand and be like that is not how

996
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 1: we do things around yet yes, I love that I

997
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: could see it happening. I don't. I don't know if

998
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 1: this is just correlation, but I feel like I've heard

999
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 1: multiple stories over my life about chimpanzees ripping humans faces.

1000
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: All it does happen and to me another thing, Yeah, yeah,

1001
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 1: I feel like that indicates that they have like strongly

1002
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: held opinions. Yeah. Yeah. Chimpanzees are not the chilliest of

1003
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: the great apes. They are. They're strung pretty, they're wound

1004
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 1: pretty tight, like they're they're high strung, high maintenance. Uh,

1005
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 1: if you want a chiller ape, bonobos are much chiller.

1006
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 1: They they're much cooler. I mean, they have much chiller

1007
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 1: culture of their own. Chimpanzee is a little more um,

1008
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 1: you know, a little more face rippy. I'm going to say, yeah,

1009
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 1: more face. But also the bonobos are like I try

1010
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 1: to be sex pause sat but they're like a little

1011
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 1: more free than I feel like I would be comfortable with.

1012
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,439
Speaker 1: Like I don't need to see people masturbating and doing

1013
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 1: it constantly. They're very sixties seventies sexual revolution. They are.

1014
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: It is a constant swinger party. You go visit the bonobos,

1015
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 1: they've got a glass bowl with all the keys in it,

1016
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 1: rolled up leaves in it, and they're like, hey, leave

1017
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: your rolled up leaves in the glass bowl because you know, yeah,

1018
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: there needs to be chimps and bonobos cannot be the

1019
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: representatives because they've both got issues, major issues. Yeah, somewhere

1020
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 1: between the bonobos and the chimps. Maybe that's what we

1021
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 1: are though, Oh makes you think that probably makes doesn't

1022
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 1: make any sense evolutionarily. But you know, hey, it sounds good.

1023
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 1: It sounds you know, yeah, it sounds sounds cool. Truthy

1024
01:06:55,680 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 1: ish uh. Well, before we go, we have to play

1025
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: a little game and it is called Guests Who Squawking

1026
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 1: the Mystery Animal Sound Game. Every week I play a

1027
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 1: mystery animal sound in you the listener, and you the guests,

1028
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 1: try to guess his squawking. And this can be any

1029
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: animal in the entire world, so birds, uh, insects, mammals,

1030
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 1: cetaceans which are whales, fish? Did I mention birds? It

1031
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 1: can be anything. So with an open mind and open

1032
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 1: ear holes, I will play a sound and you will

1033
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 1: try to guess who is making that sound. So last

1034
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 1: week's Mystery animals sound hint was if you hear this

1035
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: coming from the walls you are in a heap of trouble.

1036
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: Is the the hint that you gave earlier related to

1037
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 1: this song. So the hint for this sound is, if

1038
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: you hear this coming from the walls, you're in a

1039
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 1: heap of trouble. Is it a termite? You are correct? Oh,

1040
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:18,760
Speaker 1: that's exciting. Yes, yes, this is the sound of an

1041
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 1: agitated termite. And you do not want to hear this

1042
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 1: coming from your walls. You don't. Congratulations to Ari L,

1043
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: Natalie In and Joey P who correctly guessed termites, and

1044
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:40,760
Speaker 1: I have to issue ama culpa, an apology and oopsy whoopsie.

1045
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: Last week, I don't think actually announced the winners to

1046
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: the guests who squawking game and you guys who guessed

1047
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 1: the hercules beetle that was my bad, That was my goofer.

1048
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 1: So the winners of that issue that that round of

1049
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 1: guests who squawk was Remy H and Joey P. Good

1050
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 1: job you guys. Sorry I forgotten to do that last time.

1051
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:12,599
Speaker 1: Please forgive me. Speaking of table manners, these little guys

1052
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 1: would eat your whole table and the rest of your home.

1053
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:18,960
Speaker 1: These are termites. If you hear this, it's a very

1054
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 1: bad sign because you may have a termite infestation. So

1055
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,679
Speaker 1: before we hate on termites for destroying your home, let's

1056
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 1: learn a little bit about them and appreciate them. So

1057
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 1: termites are you social? So they live in a colony

1058
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 1: structure similar to bees or ants, where you have a

1059
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 1: reproductive cast system. So the queen reproduces uh, and the

1060
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: other termites worked together for the colony. So termites will

1061
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 1: communicate with the colony using pheromones or sometimes using headbanging,

1062
01:09:56,560 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 1: just like any good metal fan. So the soldier term mites,

1063
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 1: when they detect a breach in the tunnel of the colony,

1064
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:06,559
Speaker 1: will start banging their heads against the walls, which causes

1065
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: that clicking sound and alerts workers to come repair the breach.

1066
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: So why do termites eat your house? Uh? So basically,

1067
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: termites originally would eat decaying wood in forests. Uh. And

1068
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:28,759
Speaker 1: so they are actually really good for the forest because

1069
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: they help with the process of decay. They're able to

1070
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 1: digest wood with the help of gut microbes. So baby

1071
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 1: termites actually are not born being able to eat wood.

1072
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 1: They have to be fed regurgitive, which is you know,

1073
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:48,440
Speaker 1: fancy word for throw up, which contains this gut microbiome.

1074
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 1: And so otherwise they would not be able to feed

1075
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: on the very tough to digest wood cellulose. So originally

1076
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,720
Speaker 1: they didn't really want to eat your home. Hey, Like,

1077
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:03,560
Speaker 1: they don't know the difference between a decaying tree in

1078
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:08,679
Speaker 1: a forest and your bunch of dead trees turned made

1079
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: into a big old hollow cube. So they're gonna eat

1080
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 1: it if they have the opportunity to do so. I

1081
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 1: love that context. I had no idea that, I mean,

1082
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 1: this is like such a humanoid like point of view,

1083
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: but I was like, they're in the woods too. I

1084
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: think they only bothered us. They yes, they like as

1085
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 1: soon as we started building wooden houses, that's when they

1086
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: popped on the scene. Now, yeah, yeah, they Actually they

1087
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 1: are very good for the forest environment because they break

1088
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 1: down that dead plant material and uh they can they

1089
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: convert what is inedible for a lot of animals into

1090
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 1: actual edible things, like I just mentioned those chimpanzees. They

1091
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 1: love to eat termites because they are delicious little protein

1092
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 1: filled snacks. So they are great for great for their

1093
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 1: little biomas. Not so good if they get into your house.

1094
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: And you know, I am, of course a big advocate

1095
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 1: of not being annoyed by animals. Living near your home

1096
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 1: or but in this case, uh, they are something to

1097
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 1: be concerned with because the structural integrity of your house

1098
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 1: is pretty important for you to be able to live

1099
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 1: in there without it all falling down on top of you. So, uh,

1100
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 1: this is a situation that is not tenable to coexist

1101
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 1: peacefully with termites in your walls. Unfortunately, another sign of

1102
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 1: termites is actually frast So frost are these little wood

1103
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 1: pellets you might see in a pile, and these are

1104
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:47,799
Speaker 1: actually little wood filled termite turds. So if you see

1105
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:51,639
Speaker 1: what looks like a pile of tiny wood pellets that

1106
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: keep reappearing even after you sweep it, that is another sign.

1107
01:12:56,680 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, if you hear that noise or you uh

1108
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 1: see those little piles of frasts, you should probably call

1109
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 1: pest control because you got a situation that would be

1110
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 1: so upsetting to find that. I got a lot like

1111
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 1: our apartment has these beautiful wood beams, and I'm always

1112
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 1: just squinting at them looking for any signs of trouble.

1113
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 1: You know, you can't do that. You can't spend your

1114
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: time in Italy squinting at the ceiling. You gotta do

1115
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:36,519
Speaker 1: something else, all right. Well, uh, that's your opinion, but

1116
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 1: you uh this week's mystery animal sound The hint is

1117
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:48,919
Speaker 1: is this an okay, get go or maybe a blank

1118
01:13:49,000 --> 01:14:09,880
Speaker 1: blank m I love the little last one, like air

1119
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:12,680
Speaker 1: being let out of a sad balloon. So you got

1120
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 1: any guesses, Katherine? Unfortunately I feel like I don't know

1121
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 1: enough about jungle animals to to even guess like some

1122
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 1: sort of frog. Well, I mean, look, any guests I

1123
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 1: think is a good one, because if I tried to

1124
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 1: play this game, I don't think I would do as

1125
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:40,879
Speaker 1: well as my listeners do. To be honest with you, yeah,

1126
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 1: but unfortunately, I'm not going to tell you whether you're

1127
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 1: right or wrong, because you will have to wait all

1128
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 1: the way until next Wednesday for the answer. And I

1129
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 1: certainly won't just tell you after we turn off a recording.

1130
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: I would never do that. I am a fair and

1131
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 1: just podcast host. Uh. So yes, your maybe you out

1132
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 1: there think you know who is squawking? You can send

1133
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:12,720
Speaker 1: me an email at Creature feature pot at gmail dot com. Uh. Catherine,

1134
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today on this

1135
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:22,639
Speaker 1: culinary journey from vomiting flamingos to goats and trees. Where

1136
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 1: can the people find you? Oh, let's see. Um, well,

1137
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 1: my podcast is called smart Mouth and that's two words

1138
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 1: smart in mouth um. And I'm on all the social

1139
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: media like Instagram at smart Mouth Podcast. Um. I have

1140
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:38,720
Speaker 1: a newsletter smart Mouth dot sub stack dot com, and

1141
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 1: then on Twitter just at Katherine Spires And you can

1142
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:46,559
Speaker 1: find the podcast on the internet at Creature feature Pot

1143
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:50,719
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Creature feet Pot on Twitter. That's feet

1144
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: That is very different. Ah. Yeah, and hey, thank you

1145
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 1: so much for listening. I really appreciate each never want

1146
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 1: to you listen nerves out there. It feels it's such

1147
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 1: a privilege to be here all nestled inside your ears. Uh.

1148
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 1: And hey, but if you're enjoying the show and you

1149
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:15,799
Speaker 1: have the time, uh and the inclination, if you left

1150
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 1: a review for me or rating, I would greatly appreciate that.

1151
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 1: It means so much to me, both in terms of

1152
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:24,519
Speaker 1: just making me feel good. I read the reviews to

1153
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 1: make me happy. Uh, it also feeds the algorithm, which

1154
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:31,759
Speaker 1: I must always obey. So yeah, if you are enjoying

1155
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:33,559
Speaker 1: the show and you want to help out, if you'll

1156
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 1: leave a rating kind of review that is just so good,

1157
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:40,599
Speaker 1: so excellent. Hey, thanks to the space classics where there's

1158
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:44,679
Speaker 1: super awesome song excel Alumina Preach Your features a production

1159
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts like the one

1160
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:51,480
Speaker 1: you just heard, visit the I heart Radio app Apple Podcasts,

1161
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: or Hey guess what? Where have you listen to your

1162
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: favorite shows? Look? Hey, honestly, between you and me, I

1163
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,280
Speaker 1: don't care where you listen to your podcast US. It

1164
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 1: could be anything, anyway, any shape, any for him. See

1165
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 1: you next Wednesday, m