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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, this is Lee Clasgal when we are Talking Transports.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Lee Klaskow, Senior Freight Transportation let'gisic ounce of Bloomberg Intelligence,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's in house research arm of almost five hundred analysts

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Speaker 1: and strategists before diving in a little public service announcement.

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Speaker 1: Your support is instrumental to keep bringing great guests and

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Speaker 1: and leave a comment. Also, if you have any ideas

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Speaker 1: for future episodes or just want to talk transports, please

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Speaker 1: hit me up on the Bloomberg terminal or on LinkedIn

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Speaker 1: or on Twitter at logistics Late. Now on to our episode,

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Speaker 1: We're delighted to have Chris Jamraz, executive Chairman of the

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Speaker 1: board and CEO of Roadrunner. Previously, Chris served as the

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Speaker 1: executive chairman of the board and CEO of Ascent, a

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Speaker 1: privately owned freight forwarding and domestic brokerage service provider. Chris

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Speaker 1: has led the transfer transformative investment in global X, a

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Speaker 1: full service passenger and cargo airline headquartered in Miami, Florida.

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Speaker 1: He's a founding partner of Lyon nine Holdings, a specialty investment,

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Speaker 1: equipment leasing and direct operations private fund, and before coming

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Speaker 1: a Roadrunner, Chris served in executive roles at Emerging Cold

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Speaker 1: STG Logistics and Guarda Cash Logistics. He also serves as

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Speaker 1: governor of the Royal Ontario Museum, Canada's largest museum. He

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Speaker 1: holds a BA in Business Studies with first class honors

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Speaker 1: from Birmingham City University in the UK, as well as

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Speaker 1: an MBA with distinctions from York University in Canada. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for joining us on the Talking Transport podcast, Chris.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me me.

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Speaker 3: It's great. It's great to have you on.

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Speaker 1: You know, Roadrunner, it is a publicly traded company trades

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Speaker 1: at ticker RTS.

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Speaker 3: Maybe not everyone is familiar with Roadrunner.

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Speaker 1: Can you let us know exactly what services and products

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Speaker 1: road Rudder provides?

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Speaker 2: Surely, Roadrunner is a specialist metro to metro long line

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Speaker 2: haul carrier in any LTL space, serving major metros across

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Speaker 2: the entire continent here in North America.

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Speaker 1: All right, and so are you doing more than just

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Speaker 1: the line hall or are you doing the line hall

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Speaker 1: and then pick up a delivery stuff as well.

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Speaker 2: We do everything door to door. The specialty comes from

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Speaker 2: being that expedited line LINEHLE carrier. Where effective, we run

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Speaker 2: loads directly by passing the hob and spoke networks of

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Speaker 2: other LTL carriers and that sort of helps increase the

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Speaker 2: quality and speed of delivery.

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Speaker 1: And this this an asset light business, an asset based business.

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Speaker 2: It is an asset light logistics business industry's favorite.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's for sure. Can you talk about the markets

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Speaker 1: that you serve? You know, you mentioned you specialize in

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Speaker 1: the LTL space. Do you do any truckload or anything

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Speaker 1: outside of LTL?

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Speaker 2: No, we don't. We used to go Runner in its

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Speaker 2: original form wasn't actually a specialist, pure play LTL carrier.

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Speaker 2: And over the years that sort of nission and vision

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Speaker 2: got a little bit disturbed and expanded into many, many

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Speaker 2: modes of transport that did not serve company well. So

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Speaker 2: over the last four years we've spent considered effort and

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Speaker 2: time and resources to actually become a back back to

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Speaker 2: our roots and becoming a pure play LTL area. And

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Speaker 2: that's what we are today and that's what we want

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Speaker 2: to be tomorrow and.

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Speaker 1: When you say asset light, So what kind of assets

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Speaker 1: do you own?

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Speaker 2: We own trailers, and we own all the equipments on

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Speaker 2: our docks or you know, forklift equipment, all the trucks

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Speaker 2: that serve the local terminal operations, et cetera. But when

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Speaker 2: you think about the drivers and the rolling equipment, we

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Speaker 2: partner with owner operators and teams drivers predominantly.

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Speaker 1: Right, So you're doing all this stuff in your own

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Speaker 1: facilities or facilities that you lease, and is that fair

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Speaker 1: to say? Or are you taking are you taking freight

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Speaker 1: from other LTL carriers in moving it?

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Speaker 2: No, we work directly with shippers, so we take everything

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Speaker 2: from pick up and delivery all the way through light

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Speaker 2: bulb ultimately to the destination point.

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Speaker 1: And so then how many service centers do you, guys?

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Speaker 2: Have? We present in over fourteen major metros. So when

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Speaker 2: you think about it, think about a professional sports team,

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Speaker 2: ideally a good one, and that's sort of the market

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Speaker 2: what would be in So we run direct We connect

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Speaker 2: directly major metros across the entire continent, including Canada and

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Speaker 2: the border with Mexico.

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Speaker 1: Right well, here in New York we have two major

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Speaker 1: sports teams playing football. But some people might argue if

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Speaker 1: they're if they're really professional teams and the giants and

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Speaker 1: the jets. But I digress. So what kind of growth

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Speaker 1: profile do you have at road Runner? You know, because

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Speaker 1: obviously the LTL business has not been great on a

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Speaker 1: demand side, pricing has been pretty good. We saw a

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Speaker 1: couple of your competitors or I guess the more asset

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Speaker 1: based players come out with their No November numbers and

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Speaker 1: you know, tonnage declines kind of a moderate which is

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Speaker 1: a good sign, and and rates continue to be up

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Speaker 1: a little of mid single digits. What is your your

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Speaker 1: growth profile in this difficult market?

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Speaker 2: So we were following a slightly different trajectoryly because in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, we've we undertook a very ambitious plan

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Speaker 2: of completely redesigning our network, and we exited a lot

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Speaker 2: of markets where we didn't have our own operations or

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Speaker 2: our own brick and mortars, and the service quality was

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Speaker 2: just simply terrible. And we focused on the markets where

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Speaker 2: we have our own technology on equipment, our own drivers,

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Speaker 2: and we really sort of doubled down on growing in

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Speaker 2: these markets, and that effectively reduced our business volume by

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Speaker 2: about thirty percent. And then we had a few customers

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Speaker 2: who were probably not a good fit for us. There

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Speaker 2: was retail aggregator types and we agnited that business as well,

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Speaker 2: which had another thirty percent reduction on our volume. So

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Speaker 2: we've we've really kind of kind of cut deep to

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Speaker 2: the bone, effectively wanted to re emerge as a super

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Speaker 2: high quality carrier, focusing what we do best and serving

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Speaker 2: the shippers that had the right to fit for us.

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Speaker 2: So since that, we really have been growing quite nicely. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, as most of the carriers would have experienced

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Speaker 2: a recessionary trend since twenty twenty two and now entering

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Speaker 2: sort of you know, sort of the third year of

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Speaker 2: a freight recession. Then that was boosted last August or

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Speaker 2: August of twenty twenty three by the Yellow exit and

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Speaker 2: that bankruptcy, which you know, basically enabled a lot of

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Speaker 2: asset based carrier to wash up with eight percent more

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Speaker 2: freight on the dogs. We didn't really participate in that,

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Speaker 2: but we're following our own trajectory. So when you look

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Speaker 2: at the comps year of the year, we continue to

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Speaker 2: grow and hour November it was one of the best

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Speaker 2: months we have had in our history. So we had

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Speaker 2: a you know, we had the second highest volume of

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Speaker 2: per day sales and business excluding fuel search charges in

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Speaker 2: our history. So extremely extremely good month, and we're very

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Speaker 2: happy with what the yields are peeping up to be,

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Speaker 2: and generally happy with our growth trajectory.

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Speaker 1: Can you share any tonnage numbers for November? I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you guys provide that.

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Speaker 2: We don't, and that's sort of we only provide that

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Speaker 2: once a year, and that's due to the hour sort

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Speaker 2: of OTC filing requirement. So I'm going to sort of

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Speaker 2: just tell you that it was the second best months

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Speaker 2: we've had on a per day.

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Speaker 1: Basis, Okay, even before the restructuring of twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: No, No, that would be post post restructure. Okay, but

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Speaker 2: that makes that's a fair comment. So when we kind

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Speaker 2: of compare apples to apples, I guess I should have

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Speaker 2: said that.

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Speaker 3: And so, you know you mentioned yellow.

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Speaker 1: You know, some LTL carriers not only took advantage of

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Speaker 1: the available freight that was out there, a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: you know, went to go try to buy facilities, either

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Speaker 1: to upgrade their current facility or to expand it to

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Speaker 1: do market.

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Speaker 3: Did you guys play in that at all? Did you

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Speaker 3: were you able to buy any facilities, were you interested

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Speaker 3: in any facilities?

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Speaker 2: So we don't facilities released them. So we partner up

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Speaker 2: with the few real estate fans who went after that

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Speaker 2: rather heavily, and we picked up a brand new facility

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Speaker 2: in Atlanta. We spent bulk of last year and early

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Speaker 2: this year renovating and now we have a phenomenal one

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Speaker 2: of the best in class service centers in the heart

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Speaker 2: of Georgia.

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Speaker 1: Great And I'm just curious, So these leases am assuming

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Speaker 1: their long term leases roughly how long are those leases

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Speaker 1: for those these types of facilities.

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Speaker 2: We sort of have an average average lease I've now

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Speaker 2: around seven years now and that's sort of you can

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Speaker 2: imagine that's sort of a lot of ten year leases

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Speaker 2: in some of the leases that are coming to maturity.

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Speaker 2: We definitely are upgrading our terminal footprint because a to

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Speaker 2: support our growth and the support the quality because of

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Speaker 2: the road runners you know, history as a commonly referred

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Speaker 2: to as a roll up blow up, and the different

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Speaker 2: type of transportation activity the company got itself into. Some

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Speaker 2: of those dogs are not really textbook LTL terminals, And

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Speaker 2: you know that better than anyone that you know. You

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Speaker 2: normally you're looking for if you're LTL carrier, for you know,

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Speaker 2: something between seventy and two hundred doors with you know,

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Speaker 2: nicely rectangular buildings with doors on two side one hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty five feet across the stock. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we have some terminals that are not ideal LTL terminals,

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Speaker 2: so we editing those and we're upgrading to to something

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Speaker 2: that would be more conducive to the quality and the

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Speaker 2: type of business we do. And at the same time

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Speaker 2: we partner up with real estate firms, we're going to

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Speaker 2: be developing our own terminals to serve the markets we

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Speaker 2: don't expand to.

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Speaker 1: Right, it sounds like you have a relatively unique model

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Speaker 1: in the LTL space. So would you consider your comps

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Speaker 1: more freight brokers or traditional LTL carriers?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so basically we are definitely an LTL carrier. We

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Speaker 2: are definitely and we are considered in a sort of

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Speaker 2: all tens and purposes an asset to carry because we

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Speaker 2: do have our own dedicated drivers now the owner operators,

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Speaker 2: but they our drivers now. Our specialty lies in a

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Speaker 2: way that we execute the freight movement. So as opposed

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Speaker 2: to the large national carriers that have densely populated terminal

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Speaker 2: networks which execute the moves through their own shuttle networks

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Speaker 2: and hab and spokes. We connect metros directly. So imagine

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Speaker 2: if you go with one of the big nationals and

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Speaker 2: you want to make a shipment from LA to Chicago,

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't be unusual for this to kind of hit

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Speaker 2: three or four different hubs along the way. We run

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Speaker 2: Chicago to LA direct, so that sort of expedites the

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Speaker 2: the speed of service and effectively helps with the quality

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Speaker 2: because the less touch points along the way, the less damage,

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Speaker 2: the less lost, all other things that usually happen in LTL, which,

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Speaker 2: by the way, I coined that phrase stands for less

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Speaker 2: than likely to go perfect. So our specialty lies in

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Speaker 2: executing flawlessly long haul line haul moves.

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Speaker 1: What other issues I guess can shippers avoid using a

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Speaker 1: road runner versus you know, one of these larger national

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Speaker 1: players that you mentioned. You know, besides, so is it more?

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Speaker 1: Is there anything else other than service?

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Speaker 3: Is it?

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Speaker 1: Are you guys able to be a little more competitive

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Speaker 1: on pricing? Because I don't know, you don't have the

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Speaker 1: company drivers you have, you have the owner operator model.

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Speaker 2: The speed comes from bypassing the hop and spoke and

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Speaker 2: running direct, so we have those disadvantage our value. While

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Speaker 2: we do not necessarily like to compete on price, we

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Speaker 2: still an incredibly value priced carrier and that's because we're

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Speaker 2: working on getting our brand into the sort of the

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Speaker 2: major major direct shippers, and we're working on our brand recognition,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. But that's sort of a long term. Long

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Speaker 2: term objective would be to be on power with the

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Speaker 2: best in an industry. You do pick up a lot

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Speaker 2: of time is because you do not have to deconsolidate

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Speaker 2: and reload shipments at every hub that the container or

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Speaker 2: the trailer touches along along its route to the final destination.

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Speaker 2: So for us, it's speed and quality that we compede up.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and you know you mentioned you know you're you're

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Speaker 1: I guess more of a value play because you're trying

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Speaker 1: to build scale.

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Speaker 3: What what what?

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Speaker 1: What are your long term goals in terms of growth

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Speaker 1: and is that growth going to come all organically? Does

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Speaker 1: your model suit acquisitions or is it not well suited

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Speaker 1: for acquisitions.

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Speaker 2: You know, we spent the last four years kind of

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Speaker 2: cleaning up the business and getting back to the sort

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Speaker 2: of pu PLT help play and kind of untangling all

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Speaker 2: the sort of very bizarre acquisitions that were made in

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Speaker 2: the past, but right now with them with the news

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Speaker 2: that we announced two weeks ago in myself effectively you know,

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Speaker 2: buying Roadrunner with my partner through my private equity fund,

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Speaker 2: we are returning to the acquisition trail and we've put

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Speaker 2: significant capital on the balance sheet to serve as a

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Speaker 2: war chest, and we have publicly announced we now some

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Speaker 2: team for acquisitions quite aggressively. So we would love to

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Speaker 2: have an announcement in the first part of next year

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Speaker 2: of someone that would be considered a focused taking acquisition

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Speaker 2: for us and effectively announced the big reach to the

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Speaker 2: M and A right.

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Speaker 3: And so what what type of I guess target would

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Speaker 3: that be?

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Speaker 1: Would that be a geographic focus, would it be a

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Speaker 1: you know, and market vertical focus?

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Speaker 2: It could be both, because it's a what we We're

256
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Speaker 2: looking definitely at some geographical markets when we would like

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Speaker 2: to expand and that's definitely your home turf, that's that's

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Speaker 2: our you know, that's really what we want to go

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Speaker 2: in New York, New Jersey, and this is sort of

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Speaker 2: somewhere we would love to expand into. But we're also

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Speaker 2: looking more aggressively in southern California when we already have

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Speaker 2: a very big presence and everywhere across and so there

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Speaker 2: could be geographical opportunities. But also, you know, as we're

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Speaker 2: trying to we're not trying to. We started to respond

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Speaker 2: to a lot of greatfowarders who are looking for a

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Speaker 2: great hup to have LTL carrier. We're looking at people

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Speaker 2: who specialize in expert I'd have to have transport very

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Speaker 2: much the way we do, So it could be could

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Speaker 2: be geographic and could be sort of deeper into the

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Speaker 2: vertical functionality of HOP to help connectivity.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and I'm sorry if I misheard you. So you

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Speaker 1: guys would open to other businesses like a freight forwarder.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, we just we're going to We

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Speaker 2: started to serve freight forwarders, which traditionally was not part

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Speaker 2: of our customer mix. But the freight folds are looking

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Speaker 2: for HOP to have connectivity. So imagine you have all

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Speaker 2: these importers who bring freight into the Los Angeles Long

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Speaker 2: Beach Port or New York New Jersey Port, and from

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Speaker 2: that they needs to get to some point in inland,

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Speaker 2: and then the freight folds are looking for reliable LTL

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Speaker 2: carriers to take that fraight into and I think we

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Speaker 2: are phenomenally positioned to grow and capture that market, and

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Speaker 2: we're going to be looking at potential acquisitions coming from

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Speaker 2: that functional area.

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Speaker 1: And a potential regional acquisition target where they have to

286
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Speaker 1: have a similar model to Roadrunner, like an owner operator

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Speaker 1: type model or.

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Speaker 2: Ideally, I do we do like it? Like listen, I'm

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm a big sort of fun of certain quality,

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Speaker 2: certain type of assets. We do like real estate, and

291
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Speaker 2: we may at some point own the underlying real state

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Speaker 2: that we that we operate out of. But I'm not

293
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Speaker 2: a huge fan of rolling. So I don't like buying

294
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Speaker 2: things that depreciate. That's just not my game. I've never

295
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Speaker 2: I've never embraced that that concept. I know there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of people who play on depreciation and all the motilization,

297
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Speaker 2: all those kind of things. This is really to me,

298
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Speaker 2: you know, I don't people say that in rust we trust.

299
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Speaker 2: I don't, and I kind of I like very much

300
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Speaker 2: the owner operated the flexibility, the agility, and the kind

301
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Speaker 2: of less capital intensive business model that increases the cash

302
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Speaker 2: flows that generated to the shareholders. So I don't think

303
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Speaker 2: you'll ever see us going aggressively into any sort of

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Speaker 2: company drivers or rolling asset ownership models. Right.

305
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Speaker 1: You know, earlier conversation, you mentioned the fact that you know,

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Speaker 1: you got out of some businesses that didn't make sense,

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Speaker 1: whether it was you know, I guess an ROI standpoint,

308
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Speaker 1: or or you didn't have the density.

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Speaker 3: Can you talk about.

310
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Speaker 1: You know, your end markets, are you like sixty forty

311
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Speaker 1: like industrial manufacturing to retail or is your mix a

312
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Speaker 1: little different than that?

313
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Speaker 2: Oh, you got it. It's a predominantly industrial manufacturer. Think

314
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Speaker 2: about all these guys that need to import import things

315
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Speaker 2: into the US, and that's traditionally it was seaports, you know,

316
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,280
Speaker 2: like mentioned the southern California and the Northeast ports. Today

317
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 2: the largest port is Larreto. That's pretty much at large port,

318
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Speaker 2: and you know that that's the biggest border crossing in

319
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Speaker 2: the world, and obviously we have a huge presence. We

320
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Speaker 2: opened that market a couple months ago. It was absolutely

321
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,719
Speaker 2: shocking to all of us how quickly this sort of

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Speaker 2: exploded on us. In the volume coming through that eight

323
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Speaker 2: ways is just nothing short of spectacular. But it's a

324
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Speaker 2: you know, imagine all these all these customers who need

325
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,639
Speaker 2: need those parts or machinery or anything else that's needed

326
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 2: for either final manufacturing or final assembly, and that comes

327
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,119
Speaker 2: either from Canada or Mexico or Ocean ocean. And you know,

328
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 2: when you think about these guys, they they probably are

329
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,560
Speaker 2: budget conscious customers, so they they like the speed, but

330
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Speaker 2: they do not want to pay for expedite service because

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Speaker 2: that would kind of be a very very expensive part

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Speaker 2: of manufacturing supply chain. So you know, they're very patient

333
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 2: to wait, you know, eight twelve weeks for the freight

334
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Speaker 2: on the ocean, but the minute it touches continental the US,

335
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Speaker 2: they really want it fast in the warehouse, in the

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00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 2: in the assembly or factory. And that's where roadrun it

337
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 2: comes to play because we effect we offer the expedited

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Speaker 2: LTL service at the standard rate because we do not pay,

339
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,679
Speaker 2: we don't charge our customers for expedite rights. We just

340
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 2: executed in a very expedited way, and that's where we

341
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,120
Speaker 2: kind of come, you know, extremely relevant to that constituency

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Speaker 2: of shippers. On the other hand, you have a lot

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Speaker 2: of retailers, the e commerce and those really lend themselves

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Speaker 2: extremely well to the LTL model. Some of these you know,

345
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 2: the sort of shorter runs or smaller number of pilots

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Speaker 2: that they did not really require the whole truckload trailer

347
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 2: to be filled out. So we kind of we do

348
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,959
Speaker 2: a lot of business with the retailers as well, so

349
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Speaker 2: that you have a lot of a lot of these

350
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Speaker 2: kind of constituencies of customers that contribute to our verall

351
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Speaker 2: business makes.

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Speaker 1: And you know you're mentioning cross border business and international trade.

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Speaker 1: Do you have like a percentage, like roughly how much

354
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Speaker 1: of that is your business?

355
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Speaker 2: It would be probably closer to what you said, the

356
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Speaker 2: sort of you know, sixty forty but sort of industrial

357
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 2: manufacturing import type customers versus the retailers.

358
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Speaker 1: Are you are you guys concerned Are you hearing concerns

359
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 1: from your customers about you know, the incoming Trump administration

360
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: and there are more protection of stance and and you know,

361
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 1: use of tariffs or at least the thread of use

362
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: of tariffs. Are you concerned at all about volumes or.

363
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 2: I think everybody is concerned. We definitely have heard from

364
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 2: our shippers that they're trying to accelerate in front front

365
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 2: load the imports ahead of the change in administration. But

366
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 2: at the same time, I don't think a lot of

367
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 2: people exactly know what they are to expect, and I

368
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 2: think they just certainly fearful of the chance and whatever

369
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 2: disruption the global supply chain. So that's that's we're definitely

370
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 2: hearing that. Whether it has impact our business today, it's

371
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 2: kind of tough to say, well, you know, how much

372
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 2: is that sort of our internal efforts of you know,

373
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 2: you know, improving service and quality, and how much is

374
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,199
Speaker 2: that of a broader, broader market help reading you know,

375
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 2: reading the announcements from the large LTL place. As you've

376
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 2: noticed at the beginning of the call lead, they don't

377
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 2: really see a lot of tonnage increases. So I would

378
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 2: imagine that most of most of our improvement and growth

379
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 2: comes from our all organic initiatives. But people are definitely

380
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 2: very very cautious going into twenty twenty five.

381
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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's for sure.

382
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: And one thing is for certain is uncertainty in the

383
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 1: coming months ahead. You know, we talked about you know,

384
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 1: tarifs as being a risk. Can you talk about other

385
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 1: risks to demand in your world? Like what are you

386
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,880
Speaker 1: looking at? What kind of keeps you up at night?

387
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: I think, listen, I think the since twenty twenty, uncertainty

388
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: has become you know, the name of the game of

389
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 2: one sort or another. You know, we've been first worried

390
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 2: about the you know, the pandemic, then we enjoy the

391
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 2: post pandemic. Then we entered the freight recession as the

392
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 2: industry for the last you know, nearly three years, which

393
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 2: is the longest recession on record. And I think people

394
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 2: are generally generally concerned about just about any any aspect

395
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 2: of either regilatory environment or changing commercial reality or the

396
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: macroeconomic environment. And you know, we were worried about the rates.

397
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 2: You know, then the FED started you know, helping helping

398
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 2: the rates. Were worried about the you know, intensity of

399
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: the manufacturing space. You know, we're watching the ism indexes

400
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 2: still kind of you know, providing readings in a negative

401
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 2: territory of you know, not supporting expansionary anticipated trends. We're

402
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 2: worried about, you know, potential change of administration, what it

403
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 2: could do from a you know, organized labor perspective, wre

404
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 2: labor about you know, we were worried about manufacturing and

405
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 2: what it does to availability of rolling equipment for our drivers.

406
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: I think it's just you know, as you said, you know,

407
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 2: in anxiety and uncertainty are just here to stay, and

408
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 2: you know, we kind of we try to you know,

409
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 2: operate within our own four walls and do the best

410
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: work we count for the shippers and let the you know,

411
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 2: the environment play itself out as it would.

412
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: Not to totally change the subject, because sometimes that's just

413
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: how my brain works. You know, you're mentioning your network

414
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: is mostly with owner operators. Are these owner operators do

415
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: they just own one truck or are these like you

416
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: know companies that have you know, ten or more trucks.

417
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: Are most of the people just one one person, one truck.

418
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 2: So that's a very interesting part of our business. So

419
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 2: some of them is one person, one truck, some of

420
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 2: them is they you know, as a team, because we

421
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,959
Speaker 2: work predominantly with teams because as you imagine, if you're

422
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: running direct from LA to Chicago, you know, the teams

423
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 2: drivers is what you pick up to speak is you know,

424
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 2: otherwise you couldn't execute it faster than others. But you know,

425
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: the biggest part of I think the fund that like

426
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 2: we have here a roadrunner is to see those owner

427
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: operators that started with one truck and now up to

428
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: five trucks or ten trucks. I think the largest owner

429
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: operator we work with is now up to fifteen trucks,

430
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 2: but they've started with one with us. So this is

431
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 2: definitely a huge part of the fund that we have

432
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 2: working with these business business people who affected We really

433
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 2: pride ourselves enabling entrepreneurs and obviously it's it's it's a

434
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 2: hugely satisfying part of what we do.

435
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: And do they benefit from road Runner scale, like do

436
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: you like like you know, are able to get like

437
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: trucks at at maybe a lower price, and they're able

438
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: to get and gas, cars and tires and all that stuff.

439
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's no question they get they get

440
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 2: the benefits of the scale and now are purchasing power,

441
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 2: et cetera. But it's you know, the more you know,

442
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: I think the more impactful is that they have ability

443
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 2: to choose their own loads. We have incredible technology. We

444
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: have a driver app that was ranked and functionality ahead

445
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 2: of Uber Freight app and that's quite the feat. As

446
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: you can imagine, they can and you know, think about

447
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 2: it that they look at they look at the dispatch

448
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: options and they can pick lanes, you know exactly how

449
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 2: much they're gonna make, how much likely the fuel is

450
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: going to be. They can have their own P and L,

451
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: so they run their own businesses. And I think the biggest,

452
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: you know, the biggest appeal is for them to be

453
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: really enabled entrepreneurs deciding you know, how and how much

454
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 2: they work and how much money they can make and

455
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: how they can grow with us. And I that's that's

456
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: probably the most impactful aspect of being part of the

457
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 2: proadoun You.

458
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: Know, you mentioned technology. You know, I'd like to pivot

459
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: a little towards that. You know, you just you just

460
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: mentioned that you said your your app better usability or

461
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: rated that better usability.

462
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 3: And Uber freight.

463
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: Can you talk about you know, your technology? Is it

464
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: everything done in house? Are you using something off the

465
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 1: shelf and then kind of putting your own front end?

466
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 3: Uh?

467
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: And it's not, you know, and I'm not just talking

468
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: about the app. I'm talking about, you know, how you

469
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: optimize your network and and and all all that technology

470
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: brings to bear on the organization.

471
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 2: Technology. It's a one of the most interesting part of

472
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 2: our journey because you know, when we first came here

473
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 2: at the beginning of twenty twenty, Rodrun was an absolute laggard.

474
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a physical servers as four hundred equipment

475
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,719
Speaker 2: I mean the staff that you would not believe still exists.

476
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 2: It's operational, absolutely manual, manual processes on the dark and

477
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: lack of thereof to be honest. And we've done a

478
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: lot of things now mind mind you, our COO is

479
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 2: a former head of AI for one of the largest

480
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: consulting companies in the world. So that's that's obviously has

481
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 2: been a massive boost in terms of how we're ented.

482
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: And that's also our scale. Well, we obviously a national player.

483
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: We are a lot smaller than than you know, the

484
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 2: biggest national carriers in the US, and scale matters here

485
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: just because it's extremely difficult quote to effect to it

486
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 2: an enterprise wide technology change when you have a very

487
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 2: very large network. So when you think about these you know,

488
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: the big heavy hitters in industry, they have three hundred

489
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: plus terminals, you know, the ERP systems. It's it's a

490
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 2: very heavy lift. We're talking about three to five year

491
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: projects to effect to it and technological change. With us,

492
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 2: it's a lot faster. We can accomplish most of things

493
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: within the twelve month timeframe. So we've done anything from

494
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 2: dark uptimation, you know, complete you know, enablement of real

495
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: time tracking, ERP consolidation and integrations, all these things that

496
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: are really unattainable for the larger logic companies. And that's

497
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: really not fault of the own it's just the scale

498
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: is it becomes a major stumbling block to accomplish it

499
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: because the complexity and the risk of execution become unmanageable

500
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 2: at some point, and those things rarely get executed. We've

501
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: really accelerated our game. We have a lot of you know,

502
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,719
Speaker 2: we have our machine learning algorithms that drive our static

503
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: load plant design, and we have actual AI algorithm managing

504
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: our dispatch functionality. And we're really accelerating down the technology path,

505
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: that's for sure, and that's really really cool. Now, what

506
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: I get very excited about is that when you look

507
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: at about our network, it really is a perfect target

508
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 2: for other autonomous drivers vehicles and other very sort of

509
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: you know, very forward leaning technologies because it provides that

510
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 2: sort of statistically you know, statistically viable sample on a

511
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 2: national footprint without the complexities of a very entangled, you

512
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: know network that comes with it. So I wouldn't be

513
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 2: surprised if one day we're going to get a knock

514
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: from one of those sort of silk and Valley or

515
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: now increasing in Texas players who want to test their

516
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,719
Speaker 2: driving technology or doc technologies, et cetera. Because I think

517
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: we are perfect fit and a perfect partner for those

518
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: very technology and a sort of advanced technologies to effectly

519
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 2: become become testing ground for broader applicability I.

520
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 3: Guess an autonomous truck.

521
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: I always love to hear industry folks thoughts on it.

522
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: Do you think it's ever going to be widespread across

523
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: the United States in our lifetime. I'm in my mid fifties,

524
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: so hopefully at twenty twenty five more good years.

525
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 2: Well hopefully hopefully another fifty. But the I think I

526
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: think that you I would not be surprised to see

527
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: a road Runner being a significantly autonomously enniable the company

528
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: in the next five to five to ten years. Mark

529
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 2: my words. This will this is, this is going to

530
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: happen because that business model is just perfect for those

531
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 2: kind of applications. You know, we you know, as we

532
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: started this conversation, we specialize in lining long haul, so

533
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't get more perfect than that. We

534
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: obviously have a very sophisticated P and D operations, but

535
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 2: they are managed by a very sophisticated technology that was

536
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: not in house development. We partnered with one of the

537
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: best in the industry. But it's that linehole component. I

538
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: bet you're going to see a lot of autonomous vehicles

539
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 2: in the next decade and road around. It will probably

540
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: be at the at the at the leading edge of this.

541
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this might be like a weird question

542
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: is given the how soft the truckload market is.

543
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 3: Right now, but.

544
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: Is it is it easier to find line all capacity

545
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: versus the pickup and delivery folks?

546
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: I think you know that it's a complex and it's

547
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: a complex question. I mean, if you're a good partner,

548
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: it's it's it's easier. But it's always difficult to find

549
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: good drivers. It doesn't matter who you are, because good

550
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: drivers like to stay with good companies. They don't like

551
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: to switch. And if you have a reputation for you know,

552
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 2: so also or not not a great partner, you have

553
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: this kind of brutal attrition rates. I mean when we started,

554
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: we were, you know, one hundred and twenty percent turnover.

555
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: It was just it was it's brutal now in a

556
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 2: sort of a seventies, so we absolutely out performing all

557
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: the truckloads benchmarks US. But you still, you know, you're

558
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: still turning seventy percent of drivers every year. So it

559
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: is start now between pick up and delivery. The pickup

560
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: and delivery guys, I would say that are easier to

561
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 2: work with and recruit because you do provide certain stability

562
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: and sort of predictability of what's happening, right because you

563
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: don't deal with you know, you know, sort of weeks

564
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: at the time land hauls you deal with, you know,

565
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: less than four hundred miles every day. You know, there's

566
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: specific geographic areas that you partner with. Those drivers who

567
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: like those areas that they understand. They have a lot

568
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: of technology, I mean our dispatch technology. Again, as I mentioned,

569
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 2: we've partner with one of the best industries. But it's

570
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: it's a killer. I mean, it's just so phenomenal. So

571
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: these people make a lot of money very quickly. They

572
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: enjoy the lifestyle of being at home every night. And

573
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: then again it comes down to a sort of lifestyle decisions.

574
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: I mean, you're not going to have a you know,

575
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 2: if somebody likes to be on the road, that loves

576
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: the open road, loves and the adventure aspect, loves the

577
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: kind of being the outdoors and traversing and crisscrossing the continent.

578
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: I mean, they would die being a P and D

579
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 2: drivers and vice versa. Right, So there's definitely you know,

580
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: you would imagine there's a broader pool of drivers to

581
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: hire from. But again, the competition for the top drivers,

582
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: the very good owner operators is stiff and fierce, and

583
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 2: I don't think that ever gets particularly easy.

584
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: Right, And so I'm just curious. So I'm assuming the

585
00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: line haul folks you pay per mile, I'm assuming, and

586
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: then the pick them and delivery, how did they get paid?

587
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: They get paid per mile, per stop.

588
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 2: They get so you correct, So we pay our lifel

589
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: drives per per mile. So the more to drive them,

590
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 2: the more money they make, and they like, they like it.

591
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 2: The P and D drivers they get paid per load

592
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 2: and how many loads they pick up, and so the

593
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 2: harder they work than the more money they make. So

594
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 2: kind of conceptually it's the same, even though the sort

595
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: of the denominator is a little different, but it is

596
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 2: sort of the harder you work, the more you want

597
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: to work, the more money you.

598
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: Make, right, gotcha.

599
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 3: So I'm just curious.

600
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: So you know you've you've worked at a different number

601
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,439
Speaker 1: of transportation related companies. How did you first get into transportation?

602
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 1: Were you born into it? Did you step into it?

603
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: Did you fall into it?

604
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: Like?

605
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: How did you How did you start a career in transportation?

606
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 2: No? I was born at least I was born in

607
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 2: Poland under the Communists regime in the late seventies. It

608
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: kind of took a lot of hard work to dig

609
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: myself out of that problem. So definitely not born into it,

610
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 2: and so it is definitely a journey of passion and resolve.

611
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: But I actually started an investment banker, working with one

612
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 2: of the major Wall Street firms, and in the sort

613
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 2: of in twenty and nine twenty ten, one of my

614
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 2: investment banking clients who attempted a consolidation of a space,

615
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: asked me to come in and cross the line of

616
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 2: being a consultant or a banker and become operator. And

617
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: I thought it was a preposterous idea thought was terrible,

618
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: But it turned out to be my life's passion. Now

619
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: now a decade and a half, I've been a logistics

620
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 2: and supply chain expert.

621
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: Gotcha, and do you miss anything about investment banking?

622
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: I do miss the precision and the elegance and the

623
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: work ethic that it's just unrivaled in any other industry

624
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 2: that I've experienced. But I do absolutely thrive in operating

625
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 2: environments and being not a consultant by the owner owner

626
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 2: operator myself effectively, It's just it's just an unrivaled, unparalleled

627
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 2: rive and source of satisfaction to me.

628
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: And I guess you know, you're talking about the satisfactions

629
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: you get in your current role. So what is the

630
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 1: favorite part of your role there at road Runner?

631
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: You know, there's so many aspects of it. You know. First,

632
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 2: you know, first it was you know, coming into a

633
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 2: very difficult situation. I mean the business was, you know,

634
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: a dumpster fire. I mean equity research analysts that consulted

635
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 2: before kind of agreeing to come in. They told me that, hey, listen, Chris,

636
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: if you keep it running for ninety days before you file,

637
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 2: that's sixty days longer that this business should survive. I

638
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 2: mean this, These were like literally very serious people telling

639
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: me that. So this was not a joke. And and

640
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 2: you know, but when you look at this thing, the

641
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 2: people's lives on online, this is not just a you know,

642
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: just a business, and it's you know, it's it's people's

643
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 2: mortgage with vacations, christmases. I mean, it's just people's lives.

644
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: I really really love the fact that those people who

645
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 2: stuck with us, and you know, we have incredible loyalty

646
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 2: in our in our workforce, and we kind of celebrate

647
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 2: our anniversaries every Thursday. I mean, you know, the number

648
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: of people in double digits and in like in high thirties,

649
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 2: you know, celebrating people in decades and decades with roadrunners

650
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: not only humbling, but it's extremely i mean joyful to me.

651
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 2: But to see these folks kind of emerge like a

652
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: phoenix from the ashes and being again proud of association,

653
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: proud of our brand, it's phenomenal. I mean, that's just phenomenal.

654
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 2: But seeing you know, seeing drivers come in and you know,

655
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: they're kind of telling the stories of how they started

656
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,439
Speaker 2: as a sort of a as a least purchase driver

657
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 2: and now they they own their own truck and now

658
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 2: they have a team, or they bring the first truck

659
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 2: driver fleet driver for the growing business. Those things are

660
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: just just the best. So going to the dog terminals

661
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: and you know, across the country and just seeing the

662
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 2: pride of ownership and it's you know, and you know,

663
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 2: every every every employee Roadrun, including the powerly gets an

664
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: opportunity to make monthly bonuses. So kind of seeing people

665
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 2: work hard and kind of proving to everybody else that

666
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: they are high performers, top performers and kind of going

667
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 2: home being proud. Just the best days of my life.

668
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: That's good. And you know we didn't really talk about earlier.

669
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: Is you know, are you guys profitable? Do you do

670
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: you have do you have any sort of like longer

671
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: term profit goals for the company.

672
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I wouldn't be careful because we are we

673
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 2: are you know, we are the sort of a publicly

674
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: traded business, and I want to be careful because the

675
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 2: guidance we think. But let's assume hypothetic that this is

676
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: the first profitable YEA the companies had and you know

677
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: since the since the financial restatement of twenty twenty sixteen

678
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: when it was sort of the biggest sec accounting fraud

679
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: of the year. So to be honest, I don't know

680
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 2: if that company was ever profitable because you know, you

681
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 2: have CFOs in jail and you know, endless prosecution, et cetera.

682
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 2: But yeah, so let's assume hypothetically, the twenty twenty four

683
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: is maybe the first profitably in the company's history. So

684
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: you can just imagine how excited we all are about this.

685
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: Well, that's great, that's great to hear. You know, we're

686
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: kind of coming towards the end of the episode. And

687
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: I always like to ask guests that come on, you know,

688
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: if you have a favorite book about the transportation industry

689
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: or about leadership that you know you read over the years

690
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: that you know really resonated with you. You know, because

691
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: I know some of our listeners like to you know,

692
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: when they're flying, they like to read. So, you know,

693
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: do you have any recommendations?

694
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 2: You know what it's in my case, I you know,

695
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: I haven't really read a lot of books about transportation.

696
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: Is just such a cyclical industry, and I think you

697
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: can if you become enamored with with this and you

698
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 2: kind of lose your edge and your low subjectivity, and

699
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 2: this kind of inevailability of a you know, you know,

700
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 2: incredible peaks very quickly turning into uh, you know, troughs,

701
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: and and if you for any moment you start believing

702
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 2: that you are better than than anyone else, and this

703
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 2: will not end up in tears this time around. It's

704
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: just that's that's a risky problems. I really haven't. But

705
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: my one of I love reading biographies, and I love

706
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: reading biographies of people who are who are very very

707
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 2: good operators. And that's you know, very sort of maybe

708
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 2: my opic of my part, but it's it's a I

709
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 2: hold an incredible respect and admiration for those executives who become,

710
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 2: you know, very successful, sustainably incredibly successful operators, just because

711
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 2: it's I drive a very big distinction between one Buick

712
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 2: Wonders or you know, those kind of things who came

713
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 2: up with a great idea and you know, I had

714
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 2: to turn into a technology play or some sort of

715
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 2: royalty things, and operations is very difficult and at risk adjusted,

716
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 2: basically delivering equitable returns is very difficult. And Jamie Diamond,

717
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: who was a see of of of JP Morgan and

718
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 2: who was effectively the executive who hired me in twenty

719
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 2: twenty eight, two thousand and two into what was back

720
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 2: then Bank one in Chicago, and he left City Bank

721
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 2: under Sandy Whale and became the boss of Bank one,

722
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 2: and that was an unknown institution. That's where I've met him.

723
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 2: I've been reading about him. I've been, you know, reader

724
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 2: of his annual letters to shareholders and everything. I was

725
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: never driven and written about him. I find an extremely

726
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 2: educational and that's my favorite favorite read of any time.

727
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 3: Gotcha?

728
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: And then besides, you know, when you're not putting out

729
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 1: dumpster fires, what do you like to do for fun?

730
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 2: I have not been very good at this, LEON have

731
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 2: to be honest. I've become this sort of a serial

732
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 2: unlocking value specialist. You know, I've always had you know,

733
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 2: a minimum two or three companies and any time of

734
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: the last fifteen years. So I'm actually, you know, my

735
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: I just turned fifty. So my my strong promise to

736
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 2: myself is to develop hobbies that do not involve fixing broken,

737
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: broken operations and kind of starting during life. I used

738
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 2: to be a very very good kite boarder, if you

739
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 2: believe that, But I think I've lost the privilege of

740
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: calling myself one after sort of not being on a

741
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 2: on a board for five years. But I do I

742
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 2: did promise myself the twenty twenty five is the year

743
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 2: of return to my surfboard and getting out in the

744
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 2: ocean and and just doing some kiteboarding for the first

745
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 2: time and you know, and that would be six years

746
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: by that.

747
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, are you based on what? Are you based on?

748
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: One of the coasts?

749
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: I am at my Florida resident and unfortunately, my business

750
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: and my work takes me, you know, to the industrial

751
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: suburbs of the Midwest predominant. But I do have I

752
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 2: do have a geography that does not lend itself well

753
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 2: to trying to come up with excuses why I don't

754
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 2: do that more frequently than once every five years.

755
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: All right, Well, hopefully next time I see you, you

756
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: can you can tell me about your your your kite

757
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: surfing exploits.

758
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: I hope, I certainly hope.

759
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: So all right, I really want to thank you for

760
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,320
Speaker 1: your time, Chris and your insights. This was a great conversation.

761
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 3: Thank you, Lee.

762
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 2: I had a great time. Thank you very much for having.

763
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: Me, and I want to thank you for tuning in.

764
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 1: If you liked the episode, please subscribe and leave a review.

765
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: We've lined up a number of great guests for the podcast,

766
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: so please check back to your conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators,

767
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 1: and decision makers within the freight markets.

768
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 3: Also, if you want to learn more about.

769
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: Freight transportation markets, check out our work on the Bloomberg terminal,

770
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: at big or on social media. Take care and let's

771
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 1: keep those supply chains moving. Thanks everyone,