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Speaker 1: The podcast playground. I'm busnight and welcome to Taking a

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Speaker 1: Walk Music History on Foot. Follow Taking a Walk at

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It'd

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Speaker 1: also be great if you share this podcast with a

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Speaker 1: friend if you like it and leaving us a review

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Speaker 1: is great for us as well. You know, we like

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Speaker 1: talking about two of my favorite topics, taking a Walk

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Speaker 1: music certainly and radio and folks involved with both sides

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Speaker 1: of those businesses. And today we go across the pond

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Speaker 1: to Lovely, Ireland to talk with a man responsible for

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Speaker 1: branded content partnerships at RTE, Ireland's national television and radio broadcaster.

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Speaker 1: He's also the author of a music book, From the

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Speaker 1: Cradle to the Stage. Welcome Alan Swan to Taking a Walk. Well,

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Speaker 1: hello Allan, and thanks for being on Taking a Walk

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Speaker 1: All the way way across the park. My pleasure was

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Speaker 1: it's a long walk from Dublin to Boston. It's a

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Speaker 1: great one though, that's for sure certainly is Thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me on the podcast. Thanks for being on. So

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Speaker 1: Irish music is so wonderful and your book From the

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Speaker 1: Cradle to the Stage focuses on a pretty vast variety

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Speaker 1: of artists when where you first moved to write about

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Speaker 1: so many of these great musicians. And it came during

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Speaker 1: a period of my life where I had started in

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Speaker 1: radio in Ireland for a radio station. This is years ago.

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Speaker 1: It's the twentieth anniversary this year actually of the book,

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Speaker 1: and I was presenting the breakfast show, the morning show

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Speaker 1: on a station called c KOR, which is a kind

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Speaker 1: of a local radio station and kind of Carlo Killed

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Speaker 1: air way back when it's two thousand and three. And

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Speaker 1: when I was doing the morning show, you know, I

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Speaker 1: was always mad into my kind of music and bands,

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Speaker 1: and all these bands used to visit us in studio

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Speaker 1: all the time. And I'd finished the show at nine am,

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Speaker 1: and then I used to have this kind of really

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Speaker 1: long day where I do my prep for the following

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Speaker 1: morning and I do want to work from bits and

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Speaker 1: bobs and voiceovers and stuff, and I was left with

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Speaker 1: this kind of huge gap in the day and I thought, God,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd love to write more about these kind

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Speaker 1: of amazing people that a meeting on a daily basis.

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Speaker 1: And I've always been fascinated about people and how they

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Speaker 1: get their beginnings and how they start and where they

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Speaker 1: come from and how they do the things they do,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, God, you know, no one's written a

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Speaker 1: book about kind of their beginnings and what was that

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Speaker 1: spark that inspired these artists to become who they are.

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Speaker 1: So I used my time wisely and I just basically

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Speaker 1: started doing interviews with these artists one after another. It's

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Speaker 1: snowballed and then I was offered a publishing deal to

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Speaker 1: publish the book and it came out and did really

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Speaker 1: really well, and since then it's been it's been My

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Speaker 1: career has been kind of a lifelong journey in and

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Speaker 1: out of the Irish music business, from TV shows to

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Speaker 1: live events, to radio programs to podcasts, and it's been

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Speaker 1: an absolute honor to meet these people and kind of

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Speaker 1: share their stories and just sit in rooms and listen

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Speaker 1: to these amazing people. I love it. There's so many

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Speaker 1: that are integral in the book. I'm going to focus

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Speaker 1: on three of my favorites here and it's going to

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Speaker 1: be the Three C's and the Cores, Cranberry's and Chieftains.

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Speaker 1: Maybe some recollection on those three ce's from your perspective. Yeah, look,

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Speaker 1: I think that those three are you know, incredible institution

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Speaker 1: of Irish music from from different genres. Be it the

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Speaker 1: Course with pop, be at the Cranberries with rock, and

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Speaker 1: be at Paddy Maloney's in the book God Rest his

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Speaker 1: soul from the Chieftains in traditional Irish music, which is

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Speaker 1: you know, so close to everyone's heart here in Ireland,

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Speaker 1: and all three crossing over from their domestic successes in

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Speaker 1: Ireland to be kind of heard worldwide. In some cases

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Speaker 1: with Padi Maloney and the Chieftains, his music was sent

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Speaker 1: off into space. I think I think they took one

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Speaker 1: of his instruments and sent it off to NASA, off

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Speaker 1: into space as a kind of a recognition of his

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Speaker 1: amazing music. I think, sadly, you know, of course the

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Speaker 1: Lower has passed away, and what an amazing leader of

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Speaker 1: a band and a unique voice, a Celtic kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, haunting voice that she had and sadly missed.

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Speaker 1: And the Coors who became this kind of international pop sensation.

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Speaker 1: And recently I was talking about the Esta actually with

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Speaker 1: an amazing Irish music manager called Brian Whitehead and met

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Speaker 1: him yesterday and he was saying, God, you see how

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Speaker 1: well the Course did in Australia last week they did

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Speaker 1: a kind of a big kind of reunion type concert

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Speaker 1: a couple of a couple of weeks ago in Australia

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Speaker 1: and it went to a really really well And of

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Speaker 1: all the people that I interviewed in the in the

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Speaker 1: book for all those stories, again you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of of the of the you know, where their inspiration

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Speaker 1: came from. A lot of it came from their parents,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of it came from hearing music in

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Speaker 1: the house for the first time and hearing kind of

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Speaker 1: family and friends pick up instruments and and and that

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Speaker 1: love and sharing of music is what got them started.

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Speaker 1: But again, you know, like I always say, Buzz, you

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Speaker 1: look at the size of Ireland. Their population is only

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Speaker 1: close to five million people, and the amount of artists

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Speaker 1: this small island, you know, on the on the on

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Speaker 1: the western seaboard of Europe, has has given birth to

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Speaker 1: is slightly astounding, really per head capital of the country.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a the amount of artists and different genres

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Speaker 1: that the country's produced that have been sent all around

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Speaker 1: the world. And although it's only five million of us

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Speaker 1: on the island, there's probably fifty five million around the

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Speaker 1: world of Irish kind of you know ancestry, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's amazing the way our stories and our music spreads,

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Speaker 1: the stories of you two, how do they spread through Ireland? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you two is interesting. I think you two

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Speaker 1: there's various camps in Ireland of of whether you love

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Speaker 1: Bono or you don't love them. And I would be

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Speaker 1: a massive fan of Bono and a massive fan of

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Speaker 1: a fan of the group. You two. They really are

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Speaker 1: the pinnacle in the rock world alongside Look you look

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Speaker 1: at the Cranberries and the Chieftains, you know, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about the book earlier on and you know,

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Speaker 1: bands like the Dubliners, you know, like you know, like

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Speaker 1: Bono would would have would have mentioned them before Ronnie drew.

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Speaker 1: What a lead man he was. But Bono is this

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Speaker 1: amazing charismatic, brilliant songwriter, brilliant voice and and and an

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Speaker 1: amazing human being for all the work that he does

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Speaker 1: around the world and his latest show, his one man

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Speaker 1: show that he's doing about the book he just released.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it yet, but by all accounts just

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Speaker 1: its absolute gold. And there's a bit of a love

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Speaker 1: hate in the in the population of Ireland with you

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Speaker 1: two back and forth. Some people might go, oh, they're

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Speaker 1: a big kind of Irish people don't like people that that.

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Speaker 1: Some Irish people don't like people who show off a

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Speaker 1: bit or are a little bit successful. I think there's

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Speaker 1: the old adage that if you in America, if you

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Speaker 1: see a guy on the hill with a big house,

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Speaker 1: you'll say, Wow, what a success that guy. I want

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Speaker 1: to be like him, Whereas there's some Irish people there's

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Speaker 1: a bit of progrudgery and they look up with that

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Speaker 1: big house on the hill and they go, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get that guy. I don't like that guy. So

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Speaker 1: there's you know, but I'd be in the camp of

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Speaker 1: a massive fan of you two and all that they've

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Speaker 1: achieved and what they've done for this country in the

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Speaker 1: sense of, you know, selling our country to tourism and

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Speaker 1: being ambassadors for for for our country. Favorite Morrison's story

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Speaker 1: involving you, whether it be a good outcome or a

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Speaker 1: bad outcome. Yeah, Look, I suppose Van is legendary in

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Speaker 1: his interviews, whether you get Van on a good day

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Speaker 1: or a bad day. Look, I think sometimes the reason

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Speaker 1: we love these artists is not because they're brilliant at

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Speaker 1: doing interviews, would be always my view, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just because he's a little bit kind of cold in interviews.

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Speaker 1: Shouldn't read the termine what type of an artist he is.

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Speaker 1: And like you know, when I hear say a song

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Speaker 1: like TV Sheets or like just some of the tracks

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Speaker 1: that he's done, be a gloria with them or whatever

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Speaker 1: it was, he's an amazing artist and I wouldn't hold

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Speaker 1: it against him that he's quite a difficult Interviewee. I'd

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Speaker 1: be very much about like him as a performer, but

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Speaker 1: I think his reputation precedes himself absolutely. It wasn't a

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Speaker 1: trick question. By the way. I was wondering. He's van

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Speaker 1: so he can kind of do what he wants to do,

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Speaker 1: is how I look at it. Yeah, I think he's

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Speaker 1: built enough credibles to get away with it. I'd say so.

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Speaker 1: The late John Prime spent a lot of time in Ireland,

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Speaker 1: I know as a result of being married to Fiona

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Speaker 1: and her heritage. Did you ever have any encounters with

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Speaker 1: him as he sort of became one of yours? I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I know that the radio group that I work for,

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Speaker 1: ORTI Radio and Orty Radio one would have a lot

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Speaker 1: of specials around John and I think there's an interesting

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of artists from the States who came

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Speaker 1: to Ireland, be it folk music or country music. You

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Speaker 1: look at Johnny Cash and some of the tracksy some

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Speaker 1: Irish artists here, Nancy Griffith who came to Ireland and

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Speaker 1: really found Ireland. I know that these artists found kind

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Speaker 1: of common brethren with Irish songwriters. There's you know, I

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Speaker 1: think it's I don't know, as it's kind of a soulful,

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Speaker 1: earthy kind of sounds that we have here in Ireland

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Speaker 1: that people like John the empathy of the of of

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Speaker 1: our landscape and heritage of music. There seems to be

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Speaker 1: a common bond there. And there's a lot of artists

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Speaker 1: from the States who who came over here and we

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Speaker 1: welcome them with open arms, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: come over here and we'll look after you, will mind you,

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Speaker 1: we understand you. And I think that happened with John

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Speaker 1: and and artists like Nancy Griffin, people like that. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I think that's what

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Speaker 1: it's probably worth the documentary, But was I think there's

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Speaker 1: something Have you ever have you been over here? Buss?

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Speaker 1: Have you been earned? I have and I want to

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Speaker 1: be back, Yeah, because I think you know, there might

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Speaker 1: be an interesting documentary there for you was to come

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Speaker 1: over and take a walk over here and maybe talk

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Speaker 1: to some of the songwriters over here, you know, because

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Speaker 1: there is there's something there between those type of artists

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Speaker 1: and that type of music. I'm looking at flights right now,

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Speaker 1: so I would be a love it to death. So

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Speaker 1: as far as like concert experiences, there's obviously so much

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Speaker 1: music everywhere. There's big shows, there's medium shows, there's small shows,

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Speaker 1: there's you know, just the local pubs. Now, what are

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Speaker 1: some of your favorite experiences in terms of seeing live music.

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Speaker 1: It's a really interesting question. I always remember one of

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Speaker 1: my there was a performer years ago in Ireland. He

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Speaker 1: said he passed away, a gentleman called Joe Dolan, and

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Speaker 1: Joe Dolan sang kind of you know, early school rock

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Speaker 1: and roll music was part of the show band scene

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Speaker 1: back in the kind of the sixties and seventies, and

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Speaker 1: everyone in Ireland knew who Joe Dolan was. And I

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Speaker 1: remember one of the first concerts I ever went to

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Speaker 1: as a child was in the Glen Eagle Hotel, which

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Speaker 1: is a famous hotel in Killarney and Kerry, and Joe

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Speaker 1: Dolan almost had like you could say a residency in

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Speaker 1: It was like an Irish Las Vegas, very small with

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Speaker 1: not much lights, as the same as Las Vegas. But

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Speaker 1: Joe used to do gigs in the Glen Eagle and

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Speaker 1: I always remember as a as a he kind of

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Speaker 1: had this Elvis vibe, kind of you know, show man.

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Speaker 1: He had these famous songs called make Me an Island,

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Speaker 1: such a good looking woman and britaant performer. And I'll

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Speaker 1: always remember one of the first ever concerts ever went

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Speaker 1: to as a as a as a child was and

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Speaker 1: like Irish parents back in the eighties used to drag

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Speaker 1: their kids along to these late night shows. Probably not legal,

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Speaker 1: but we were all there together. So there'd be points

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Speaker 1: flowing and getting out. None of the children obviously drinking points,

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Speaker 1: but we'd all be there. And the big the big,

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Speaker 1: like the room should only take about four under people,

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Speaker 1: there was probably nine hundred people in the room. There's

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Speaker 1: points flying everywhere, there's packets of crisps, kids running around.

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Speaker 1: I'm there, I'm think of eight at the time, and

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Speaker 1: I see Joe Dolan on the stage and he had

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Speaker 1: this and it still sticks with me. Now he's on

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Speaker 1: stage performing, all the kids are up the front, everyone's

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Speaker 1: having a great time. And he used to do this

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Speaker 1: thing where he'll be sweating profusely while performing, and he

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Speaker 1: used to get his finger and he flicked the sweat

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Speaker 1: of the front of his brow and all the women

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Speaker 1: will go, oh, Joe, oh, that's fantastic. And I still

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Speaker 1: remember that been like literally scarred as a child, going

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Speaker 1: what is that man doing spraying his for the front

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Speaker 1: row of the audience. But you know what, they're great

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Speaker 1: memories and we're very lucky to be brought to these

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Speaker 1: type of gigs at that age and then kind of

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Speaker 1: gigs throughout the years. We're very lucky to have some

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Speaker 1: beautiful venues in Ireland. One of my first concerts as

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Speaker 1: a teenager, we have this beautiful theater called the Olympia

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Speaker 1: Theater in Dublin. It's in the city center of Dublin,

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Speaker 1: and I always remember as a fifteen year old going

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Speaker 1: to see Ocean Color Scene on Valentine's Night. I still

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Speaker 1: remember it. There was this kind of four piece kind

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Speaker 1: of Paul Weller, kind of sixties the Who type band,

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Speaker 1: and they had a huge hit in Ireland years ago

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Speaker 1: called the Riverboat Song, and I remember going to see

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Speaker 1: them at the Olympia later and then over the year

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Speaker 1: has been very, very lucky to go to various different

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Speaker 1: concerts in you know, all over the place. But those

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Speaker 1: kind of I suppose those formulative years of growing up.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's the same with you, Buzz, when you're

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Speaker 1: at that age of kind of you know, fifteen, sixteen,

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Speaker 1: seventy eighty nineteen, you remember those moments where you've got

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Speaker 1: to hear an album for the first time, be it

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Speaker 1: like Dave Grows and Dublin during the week and even

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Speaker 1: hearing his name instantly brought me back to hearing Nevermind

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Speaker 1: for the first time and getting it on a tape

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Speaker 1: on a school tour and had been passed around the

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Speaker 1: bus and people going, have you heard this? Like never

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Speaker 1: Mind by Nirvana? It's unbelievable, and you know, just those

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Speaker 1: just memories, just they're just fantastic to have and get

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Speaker 1: that been on a school tour, come from the burn

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Speaker 1: which is down and Claire and people's literally passing a

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Speaker 1: walkman around the bus to hear Lithium or you know,

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Speaker 1: smells like teen Spirit or all those songs and they're

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Speaker 1: just you know, just lovely, lovely memories. So describe the

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Speaker 1: sound of radio in Ireland someone from the US. Irish

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Speaker 1: radio is really unique buzz in the sense that it

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Speaker 1: has a huge daily listenership. I can't remember at the

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Speaker 1: top of my head, but it's something along the lines

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Speaker 1: of like eighty two percent of all Irish adult population

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Speaker 1: population listen to an Irish radio station every single day.

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Speaker 1: We absolutely adore live radio in Ireland. And the way

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Speaker 1: it breaks down is you have local radio stations, so

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Speaker 1: every county has its own local radio station. We have

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Speaker 1: regional radio stations for the youth, and then we have

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Speaker 1: national radio stations. There's about kind of commercially and publicly

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Speaker 1: about i'd say forty something radio stations, maybe fifty, and

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Speaker 1: then lots of community radio stations around it. And it's

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Speaker 1: a mix. With the local radio stations, it's a mix

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Speaker 1: mix of local talk and kind of you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of AC adult contemporary types of music. And then you've

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Speaker 1: got your kind of national radio stations where you have

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Speaker 1: your usual mix of a h R and an AC

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Speaker 1: and and EVE a rock station, and you have kind

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Speaker 1: of that. But one of the big things that we

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Speaker 1: have in Ireland is that we love, as you can

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Speaker 1: probably guess from our conversation, we love talking and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of mid morning programs that are all talk

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Speaker 1: based and they do really, really well, and there's a

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Speaker 1: there's a particular anonymy a lot amomally amomally, I can't

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Speaker 1: even say that word. Probably in Ireland there's a presenter

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Speaker 1: called Joe Duffy and as you know, Buzz been a

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Speaker 1: radio man. Usually the peak of a radio stations that

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Speaker 1: starts off Morning Breakfast goes up and then kind of

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Speaker 1: just goes down and then a small little spike on Drive.

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Speaker 1: But what happens in Ireland is with this show with

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Speaker 1: Joe Duffie show is morning Time. The biggest radio show

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Speaker 1: in Ireland's called Morning Ireland, which is like a kind

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Speaker 1: of a talk current affairs program. It goes up with

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Speaker 1: peaks and then there's a giant peak at lunchtime where

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Speaker 1: this guy called Joe Duffie comes on and there's a

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Speaker 1: problem called Live Line where people phone in and just

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Speaker 1: talk about their problems of the day, be controversial problems

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Speaker 1: or something that's in the news. And he's a brilliant communicator,

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Speaker 1: absolutely fantastic, just brilliant listening to listeners and talking and

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Speaker 1: then it goes down and we have some really amazing

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Speaker 1: radio personalities and speakers and we're blessed to have them,

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Speaker 1: you know. So the radio scene is quite healthy in Ireland.

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Speaker 1: We love live radio and with podcasts. I think the

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Speaker 1: recent Reuters report that came out for Europe is like

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Speaker 1: the fastest growing listenership in Europe for podcasts is in Ireland.

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Speaker 1: So we've kind of we love our live radio and

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Speaker 1: we love getting up into podcasts as well. So and

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Speaker 1: what's the state of country music in Ireland in terms

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Speaker 1: of popularity and who would some of the artists that

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Speaker 1: are popular there is a variety of country music is

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Speaker 1: massive in certain regions of Ireland, so you know, you've

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Speaker 1: you've artists like Mike Denver, Nathan Carter, people like that

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Speaker 1: who are just you know, massive performers and in pockets

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Speaker 1: around the country. So country music would be massive in

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Speaker 1: places like Monahan in Cavan, Kerry, Cork, Tipperary, that area

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Speaker 1: not as big in And there's a weird thing actually,

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Speaker 1: like it wouldn't have massive local country artists in Dublin,

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Speaker 1: but whenever an American country artist comes to Ireland they

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Speaker 1: will sell out three Arena, which is our biggest kind

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Speaker 1: of you know arena that we have in Ireland was

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Speaker 1: fifteen thousand. Brooks came over in the summer and sold

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Speaker 1: out like five stadiums in five nights in a row.

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Speaker 1: So you have these kind of two tribes in Ireland.

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Speaker 1: You have people who just absolutely adore country music, and

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Speaker 1: then you've got kind of what I feel, kind of

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Speaker 1: snobbish kind of people go country music. It's not you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not real kind of music. And well in Israeli

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Speaker 1: music and it's really really popular and so I think

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Speaker 1: the scene is definitely growing in Ireland, but there's a

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Speaker 1: slight disconnect we're regarding the city audiences in Ireland as

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Speaker 1: opposed to the country kind of listeners in Ireland who

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Speaker 1: love their country music. It's a weird kind of balance.

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Speaker 1: There's definitely two tribes of people. But again a local

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Speaker 1: country scene does does really really well in Ireland and

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of different artists. I must email you

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Speaker 1: a few and send them onto you, but but a

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Speaker 1: very healthy scene. I do want to acknowledge back to

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Speaker 1: your book that you wrote the book in terms of

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Speaker 1: benefiting a charity called Fighting Blindness. Can you talk about

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Speaker 1: that charity. Yeah, there're a charity who have been going

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Speaker 1: to long time, and it's twenty years since I did

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Speaker 1: the book, but they're still on the go. It was

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Speaker 1: for people who had degenerative eye disease where they were

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Speaker 1: slowly losing their eyesight, and this organization called Fighting Blindness

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Speaker 1: were at the time one of the leaders in research

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Speaker 1: and how to combat that. So all the funds from

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Speaker 1: the book that we raised went towards that. It was

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Speaker 1: a kind of a close charity to my heart at

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Speaker 1: the time, and I was very proud to do that

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Speaker 1: for them. And I think the plan is, hopefully, maybe

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Speaker 1: you know, to do a kind of a new version

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Speaker 1: of the books twenty years on and see what'll be

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Speaker 1: updated with kind of some of the newer Irish artists

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Speaker 1: that have come to the fore, like Dermy Kennedy or

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Speaker 1: Hosier who probably were only babies when the first edition

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Speaker 1: of the book came out back in two thousand and three.

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Speaker 1: It's awesome. So in closing, I know you follow radio

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Speaker 1: all over the place, besides adds your home country, so

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you follow it in this country. Could you

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Speaker 1: give operators owners in this country a piece of advice

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Speaker 1: that would be meaningful to their future. Don't fight the future.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of radio groups worldwide who

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Speaker 1: seem to have forgotten why they were popular in the

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Speaker 1: first place. And I think that they're worrying too much

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Speaker 1: about the competition and not worrying about the basics of

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Speaker 1: what made them successful in the first place, even simple

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Speaker 1: things like you know, automating your overnights. You know, put

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Speaker 1: people in there, put them in live, give them a chance,

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Speaker 1: let them do stuff, let them talk about things, discover

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Speaker 1: your new talent. And I think that radio groups around

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Speaker 1: the world syndicated so many of their stations, networks so

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Speaker 1: much of their shows that they just took rip their

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Speaker 1: heart into them and they kind of took away what

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Speaker 1: made them special in the first place, which was one

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Speaker 1: to one medium in a live moment where you can

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Speaker 1: change someone's life literally. And I don't mean that in

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Speaker 1: a kind of a small sy Hollywood kind of way.

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Speaker 1: I think we've become too obsessed with with with data.

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Speaker 1: I think we've become too obsessed with you know, just

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Speaker 1: kind of cutting everything to the core and forgot about

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Speaker 1: you know, people always want to like, you know, who's

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Speaker 1: going to replace these amazing big names as they pass away,

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Speaker 1: And the answer is nobody, Because you're not sitting down

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Speaker 1: and developing talent. You're not making you're not using your

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Speaker 1: medium to discover these stars. And it's no surprise that,

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Speaker 1: you know. I remember doing a talk at the All

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Speaker 1: Access Radio conference in LA but three four years ago,

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Speaker 1: and I've sat in a room and I said, you

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Speaker 1: do know that kind of Amazon, Spotify, You know, all

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Speaker 1: these companies are doing radio. That's what they're doing. That's

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Speaker 1: what they're turning their platforms into their they're pumping money

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Speaker 1: into discovering talent, and they're going to pump money into

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Speaker 1: podcasting and kind of kind of people sniggered in the

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Speaker 1: room at the time. I was like, guys, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have this wonderful opportunity, but not fighting them with technology,

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Speaker 1: fighting them with talent and keeping what's specially about live radio.

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Speaker 1: So I'm very passionate about that. I'm very passionate about

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Speaker 1: discovering talent, finding great storytellers. And I think that maybe

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Speaker 1: operators if they, you know, if they kind of took

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Speaker 1: back some of their day parts and put people in

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Speaker 1: there and let them make mistakes and take ownership of

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Speaker 1: and say, look, just go out there and do two

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Speaker 1: or three hours. See what happens and just find these

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Speaker 1: new starts, Like where are we going to find the

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Speaker 1: next generation of radio broadcasters. They're going to come from podcasting,

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Speaker 1: because these people are going on podcasts and they're making mistakes,

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Speaker 1: they're putting stuff up in YouTube, they're taking a chance,

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Speaker 1: and they're finding their own tribes. And I think radio

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Speaker 1: stations need to spend a bit of time finding the

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Speaker 1: next generation of broadcasters. I feel like I'm doing some

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Speaker 1: sort of sermon. Well, I'm very passionate about it, and

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Speaker 1: I think that that's the only way radio is going

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Speaker 1: to just you know, save itself and stuff from eating itself,

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Speaker 1: you know. Bravo, Alan Swan, thanks for being on Taking

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Speaker 1: a Walk So it was my pleasure and thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for having me on. Taking a Walk with

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Speaker 1: Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts.