WEBVTT - Dennis Arfa 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.440 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the pod Least That's Podcast. 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.919 My guest today the CEO of Artist Meet International Agent 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.680 Dennis Alfan. Dennis, good to have you on the podcast 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.920 and nice to be a Okay, we were talking on 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.120 the phone and you stay to listening to the Repeto 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.600 podcast and he was talking about agents and you wanted 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:31.840 to give your perspective on what he had to say, 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:33.839 So why don't you let it ripped there? Well, I 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.760 thought Michael had a lot of very intelligent and wise 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.640 things that he said. Um, but the one factor that 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:46.640 I thought should be addressed was how the agency game 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:52.320 is affected by the buying game of major touring companies. 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:57.360 And a lot of times the one say an artist 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.720 is repped by a Live Nation a G A lot 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.600 of the artists don't see the need to have to 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.679 pay the same commission anymore because a lot of the 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:11.760 services that they provide are now provided by the promoter. 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.399 So the A game, the A list, A lot of 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.840 agencies have been affected by this and therefore it's very 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.959 hard for them to maintain that commission level. Therefore, the 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:28.520 A game is very much threatened by um, you know 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.760 the big bucks that the major promoters pay out. Okay, 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:37.360 you're the agent from Metallica. Metallica made an overall deal 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:41.560 with Live Nation on their last big tour. As the agent, 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.440 did you still commission Metallica or you squeezed out? Yes, 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.160 we still and we still have a relationship, but our 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:54.080 our relationship was directly affected by their relationship with Metallica. 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.440 Just to be very clear, you're talking about your financial relationship. Yes, 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:02.840 that's all the financial relationship. Okay, So when someone makes 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:06.600 an overall deal with a G or Live Nation, what 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:12.760 services does the agent still provide? Well, you know, it 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.200 all depends on the agent or the agency I mean 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.680 some agents. I mean sometimes the agent just gets a 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.280 free ride. I mean, may do the routing, may participate 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:29.480 in putting the packages together, may have overall marketing viewpoints. 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:35.480 But um, many times, um, you know. But but certainly 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.680 the agent isn't going out there and most of the 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:41.160 time making the building deals, the agent isn't going out there. 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:47.720 And you know, and um, basically a lot of the 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:54.799 agency skills are negated by Live Nations or a G. Okay, 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:59.000 just in terms of your experience, not only your own agency. 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.800 When people make the overall touring deals with a big 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.440 corporate entity to most of them keep the regent or 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:11.440 most squeeze their agent out. I mean sometimes sometimes the 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.200 agent gets squeezed out. Sometimes the agent gets you know, 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:19.920 um has a limited roles. Sometimes the agent tries to 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:24.000 act like they're very involved a lot of times. Uh hey, 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.480 there are there are promoters within Live Nation who go 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:33.560 to their touring their national touring partners to buy acts locally, 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:37.760 not necessarily to the agents. I mean, there are promoters 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.920 who actually just buy within the their own their own 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.600 promotion company to be able to secure acts. Okay, just 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.800 to be clear, every level of act or just the superstars. 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:54.360 Uh well, I would say, uh that can exist for 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:59.200 every level of an act, but superstars certainly uh are 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:05.240 numero uno. Okay, let's let's just assume whether you're getting 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:09.080 paid or not, the Live Nation or age is promoting 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.600 the tour. Do you think that they do as good 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:17.640 a job as what an independent agent would do making deals? Well, 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:21.760 let me put it here this way. Most agents are 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:27.920 booking agents. And if I was managing a superstar band 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.960 that could sell out basically every arena or stadium, I 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:39.280 would probably not need the agent because most most promoters 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:44.080 are more fluent and more educated about what's inside a 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:48.880 deal than an agent. Many of the agents is uh, 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.360 many of the agencies are in a volume business. They 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:55.400 don't have the time to be into all of this detail. 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.159 They don't have the time to focus on all the 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:03.479 nuances that really go inside a deal. So if I 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.679 was a manager and I had a superstar act, there's 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:11.960 very few agents in the world that can actually, um 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.680 know where all the bodies are buried in all the 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.800 deals you can count on one hand and not only 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:24.159 know about it in America, but Europe, Australia, around the world. 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:26.760 There's very few agents you can count on one hand 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:31.880 that booked the world. Okay, so let's assume you can 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.840 you do a better job than the big corporate entay, 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:40.040 and what do you do differently? Well, I can certainly, um, 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:46.560 I have the ability to do as well um as anybody. 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.560 I mean, you know, earlier in my career, I remember 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.640 one time I had a superstar film agent in the 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.480 dressing room of one of my artists and he says, oh, 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.200 I'm not hitting on the artists money. And it became 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:03.360 my goal to never have anybody a promoter. Anybody can say, 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:05.479 I can get you more money for your artists than 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:09.560 you can. So I made it my business to become 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:14.159 an expert in the touring nuances. And then you deals 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.640 and all the ancilliaries. There's the gross and then there's 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:21.960 the gross gross, and I become a student of that game. 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:27.920 And I you know, so when we have deals with 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.080 some of our artists, Um, if you can do better 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:36.800 than me, then you're losing money. Okay, let's just say 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.440 in a perfect world, the band is offered a deal 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.680 by a major entity, or they could go market by 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:48.400 market using you. Which would way would you say to 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:55.599 go me? Because because I have an overview of the 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:59.240 whole world. Again, there's only a very few. There's a 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.520 few promoters that have an overview, but very few have 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:07.440 an overview of the whole world. And so I would um, 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.600 and you know, and then sometimes it depends on what 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.000 flavor ice cream you like. Some like vanilla, so I'm 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.920 like chocolate. You may like somebody else as opposed to me. 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.680 You may like somebody else's personality, but at least we 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.960 can compete on an equal playing field. And there aren't 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.840 many that compete on that playing that that that elite 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:30.360 playing field, um that you can. You know that that 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.760 that most can compete with, and I think there's very 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:37.880 few agents and there's very few promoters on that level. Okay. Now, 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.480 if you're the act, Live Nation is writing you a check, 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:46.440 it's their obligation to sell the tickets. Whereas if you 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.520 go market by market, anything could happen. Okay, you could 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.280 have a cancelation, you could have a COVID for some reason, 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.560 sales or weak. So if you're saying, hey, I'm gonna 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.120 sell by market by market, someone else might say, yeah, 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.720 if I take the lups some I'm guaranteed. I'm not 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.160 quite clear what you're saying. I'm trying to say is 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.440 let's say I'm an act and I'm going to do 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.760 a thirty day tour and Live Nation offers me X 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.040 They're gonna pay me that, irrelevant of how many tickets 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:20.040 are sold. Okay, they're guaranteeing me that. Whereas if I 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.960 go market by market. Are you saying that you can 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:30.560 equal that guarantee? Sure, no problem. Sure, Hey I can 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:34.199 sell it to Live Nation or a g okay and 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:38.680 be the one still overseeing what's going on, and I 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.240 still listen. I live with Live Nation and a G 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.559 all the time. They're my partners and and and and 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:51.480 many of my deals. But it's but the quarterbacking comes 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.839 here from here, not necessarily from them. I may be 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:59.400 directing how my artists should be presented, not having them 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:01.960 tell me how my audis should be presented. So I 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.920 am directing the game and were yeah, using um, you 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:12.120 know their strengths and and and and so um. That's 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.400 the difference is I can work with them, except I'm 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:19.200 quarterbacking as opposed to them quarterbacking me. Okay, a couple 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.640 of questions. Let's just assume go back to that thirty 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:25.600 state thirty day tour in America. Live Nature Age will 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:29.200 say I'm writing you a check for X. Let's say 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:33.040 you're saying the act, don't take that check. I'm gonna 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:38.800 go to independence market by market. Okay, assuming you do that. 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.440 If you add up all the guarantees, will those equal 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.120 the Live Nation guarantee. It doesn't have to be either 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:50.600 or it doesn't have to be independence. You can have 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.800 the same result, and you can you know, working with 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:58.960 Live Nation or independence or a e G or um. 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.600 You know you can have that same result without having 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:07.560 to give up control. So that's what I'm talking about 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:11.079 is control there your partner, and it takes a village, 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.640 but you don't have to give up control, as opposed 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.040 to somebody else buying the tour and they took control. 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.720 They're determining which Marcus to play, They're determining what the 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.800 prices should be. They may consult you, but with me, 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.600 it's tries to try to be it's the other way around. 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.920 I'm quarterbacking. Okay, let me try to drive to a 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:37.360 very small point here. Let's say you're you know, Pink 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:41.200 Floyd led Zeppelin, and you're gonna get back together where 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.200 you think you're you know, you should go clean absolutely 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.600 everywhere all over the world. Okay, can you make more 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.600 money making individual deals than you can if you take 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:59.360 the lump sum? You can? You know? Um you know. 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:05.600 When uh the Metallica deal went down, I was asked 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:10.960 to review the deal and tell and tell the management 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:16.559 whether the numbers were right? With these the right numbers 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:22.120 that we're getting, Are we getting what an act of 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:27.720 superstar caliber of Metallica? Are we making those kind of dollars? 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.440 And the answer was yes. But I could answer the question, Okay, 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.679 if you're making an overall deal, but I can break that. 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.480 I can break that down individually too, you know. So 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.200 when I see the markets in the cities and I 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.360 see what all the deals are, I then under I 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.720 can take a look at it and say, yes, you 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.640 are making the maximum out of these cities and out 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.839 of these venues, or you're not. Okay if you're making 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.320 an overall deal. Generally speaking, whether and there's two categories, 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.720 you and the full of other people who understand everything. 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.600 Are you leaving money on the table to have a 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:10.800 guaranteed sum. I think there's a risk reward. I think 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.000 you know, I mean I I don't think of it. 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.960 Here's what I'm aware. If I'm leaving something on the table, 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:18.920 I'm aware of what I left on the table, and 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.440 I'm aware of what everybody's making. So pending on what 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.600 your risk is to me has a lot to do 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:29.040 with what your reward should be if you if it is. 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:33.080 There are promoters that will offer artists and no guarantee, 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.640 and they basically throw every side back into the deal 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.280 that they're gonna make, but they're not taking they're not 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.360 taking much of a risk except paying the venue. Course. Now, 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.160 somebody who's guaranteeing somebody four or five million dollars a 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.640 night or whatever the number is. That's taken a risk, 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.640 so they may you may let them, you know, um 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:57.080 take a greater a greater profit, so you really So 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.319 that's that's up to the the the artist, the manager, 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.760 the you know, the agent who has ever involved to 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.120 make that decision. But at least you need to have 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.760 the knowledge of what the whole picture looks like it 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:14.640 before you can decide what's the fair game to play. Okay, 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:16.760 you talk about this knowledge and a handful of people 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.480 who have it. As we go forward, no one's gonna 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.840 live forever. Is this going to be a lost art 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.760 or will there be new people with this knowledge? Are 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.480 we talking about people are just agents or managers are promoters? Well, 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.000 we're talking about people who don't work for the big corporation, 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.360 whether it be individual agents or individual managers. I listen, 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:40.720 it's a skill set um that one can develop. And 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.680 and you know, if if you in my opinion, and 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.679 there are people who maintain artists without for that are 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.440 superstars and they have a relationship and make money with 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.360 people for a long time without having the skill set. 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.280 I just think, um, having The skill set doesn't guarantee 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:02.160 you maintain or you even attract new relationships, but I 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.000 know that it's it's a very important tool in my 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.360 box to be able to be successful in moving forward. 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.720 Is having the skill set? Um, you know, my agents, 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.320 I try to share information and for them to develop 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.560 the skill set. And I've been fortunate. I've had some 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.120 superstar racks that I've needed to have the skill set 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.880 to be able to maintain my relationships. Okay, you talk 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.520 about this skill set, tell me a couple of things 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:34.200 you learned where people need to know. Well, the the 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.720 skill set is, as I said, is at least certainly 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:39.840 in the skill set. From a financial point of view, 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.000 I think there's multiple skill sets. I think you as 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:44.800 an agent have to have a real sense of being 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:49.960 a promoter. You have to understand how you want your 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.239 artists and how that your artist wants to be represented 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.960 in the world. So I think the I think the 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.960 skill set is having a promoter a mentality. I think 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:05.320 a skill set is understanding the markets, understanding the difference 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:09.440 between Atlanta and San Juan, Puerto Rico and San Francisco, 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.720 and and and and understanding that and understanding the climate 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:19.000 changes in different markets throughout the world. And then it's 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.400 developing a skill set. I mean, if you have a 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:26.240 band that can sell out places, um, everywhere in the 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.080 country or or the world, you you need to develop 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.400 a skill set to know the maximum dollars that you 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.280 can make. Now, there are countries and there are places 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.160 you're never gonna see what's really behind, what really exists 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.680 in some of these kinds, some of these venues. And 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:43.600 if that's the case, the only thing I can do 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.160 is is really try to secure as much money from 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.520 whoever I'm selling the day to, whether it be the 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:54.040 venue or a local promoter. But I don't know. I 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.480 think the art of that skill set to some degree 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:01.320 has been lost, certainly in the big agency because a 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.720 lot of them have territories. A lot of them, Um, 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:09.440 you know, the the requirements are different. But I just 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.480 feel that as UH as an agent, as a representative 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:19.320 of an artist, you need to know, um, you need 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.680 to have this information so that they can be able 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.640 to get the most from from you. Otherwise they can 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.760 go somewhere else. Okay, what are some of the markets 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.720 where you really don't know what's going on with the money. 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.520 One of the markets I think, you know, it could 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.880 be China. I mean, Japanese is not necessarily easy to 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.400 go to Japan and you know, try to see Japanese 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:49.640 backup and know what the what what the actual costs are. Um, 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:55.600 you know, I'm more South America could be relatively difficult sometimes. Okay, 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:57.480 you talk about being able to see all the costs. 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.200 I have sat with the promoter with two sets of books, 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:05.159 but they're showing the act in their real net do 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.119 they actually you have to guess what's going on in 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.679 their books. How much information are you actually getting and 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:15.720 how you're getting it? Uh I listen, there's no there's 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.800 not any more sequence anymore in terms of all the 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.879 ancillary where where all the money is, Because if you 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.159 go into a venue, I mean, you know, there's the 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.720 peanuts and the popcorn, and the facility fees and the 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:31.280 ticketing rebates and the and the sweet tickets and the 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:35.359 unmanifested seats and the parking and these are all the 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:39.639 things you calculate, and everybody has has different economics in 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:44.920 their particular facility. But uh so this is there's there's 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.639 a lot of information. I mean again, you there's the 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.159 gross and then there's the gross gross. I mean I 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.280 have to actually played buildings, gotten a hundred percent of 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:58.480 the gross, you have to tax and have had the 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.920 venue make hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just for the uninitiated, 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:08.359 where did they make that money? Uh? Ticketing rebates, UH, 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:17.439 facility fee, UH, merchandise UM, suits, parking UM. Trying to 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.960 think what else? Uh you know I might have what 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:32.119 in general? That's that's that's kind of the uh the base. Okay, 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.320 let's go back to when we start to have consolidation 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:41.720 in retrospect? Was consolidation in touring concert promotion good or 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.000 bad for you? In the acts? I'm not talking about 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.600 the deals where the making overall deals, just in general 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.480 in terms of money and how the businesses run. Well. 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.600 It went from a millionaires business to a billionaires business 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.720 is what really changed. It existed before it existed with 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.399 concerts West and Jerry Wine troub and so you know 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.199 when Jerry weintraud basically in concerts where they had a 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:07.719 tremendous domination and of superstars and and a list artists. 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:12.000 So basically they were doing it. You know, prior they 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:16.040 had the Zeppelins and the the b g s and 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.600 you know, all the Elvis Presley, all the A list. 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.439 So it really just continued and it was just a 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.520 buy up of a lot of the major promoters. But 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.240 it went from a millionaire business to a billionaire business. 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:34.720 And and and now Concerts West and Jerry Winintroud have 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.040 been replaced by Live Nation and a g well need 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:40.320 Let's say Live Nation is a company that worth it 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.880 is worth billions public company, but has the money trickled 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.760 down to the acts and to you? Yes? And you 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:54.520 attribute that too. I think that Live Nation to maintain 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.920 their domination, has to pay the acts because they need 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:03.840 they they need the inventory to feed all their um 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.439 you know, their sponsorships that they need to feel to 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.000 feed their business. And I think they're very good at 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:13.000 um uh yeah, at taking care of the artists that 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:17.720 they that they acquire and represent. Okay, staying with sponsorship 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:21.640 just by owning or controlling as much as Live Nation 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.080 does they make these overall sponsorship deals. Do you just 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.119 have to shrug and leave that money with them or 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.520 with a superstar? Do you try to get into some 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:34.760 of that money? Well, again, you know, if there's a 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.520 million dollars on the table, and you know where there's 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.240 a million two with all their money, you make your 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:43.480 your deal with how much of that million two can 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:47.880 you get? You know, It's like they don't necessarily try 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.440 to hide what they make. They but so that's your 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.840 negotiation with them. It's like anybody it's say, hey, this 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.919 is we're making a million to a night. You know, 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.800 that's your negotiation you with them? How much of a 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:05.320 million two is yours? What's your negotiation style? Some people 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.639 are screamers, some people who are quiet. What do you 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:14.480 do well? You know you're listen. Competition, you know, competition 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.280 is the best. I'm not a I'm not a screamer. 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:19.360 Was probably more of a screamer in my early days. 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:23.040 I'm not a screamer or a calculator, uh, trying to 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.640 calculate or what's the best strategy and how I can 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.679 make the maximum dollars. I also want wants to promoter. 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:32.760 I want them to make money. It takes a vility. 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.600 Everyone's gotta win, so I approach it. The artist is 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.320 my first concern. My acts have to win and they 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.040 have to feel that they're making the maximum money. But 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.880 but the promoter live nation a g they gotta win too. 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:49.600 So so you look at the pot and again go 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.800 back to risk rewood, what are you risking and what 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.960 should you be rewarded? And now there's sometimes that that 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:01.200 equation is very much in the favor of the promoter. 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:03.879 Sometimes it's very much in favor of the artist, especially 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:06.840 if the artist doesn't, you know, sell the tickets and 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:09.800 the promoter takes a risk and they lose. But most 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:13.720 of the time, Um, but but if you but your job, 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:17.080 I believe is to have the knowledge about how the 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:20.640 pot is getting divided. But you have to know what's 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.760 in the pot before you can know what's divided. And 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:26.240 my thing is, how many of us really know what's 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:29.119 in the pot? Not in not that many? Okay, In 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:33.040 the old days before rolloups, frequently if you had a 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:37.400 losing date, you would give the promoter money back because 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:39.440 you have to be in business with them in the future, 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:41.760 whether it be other after the act wanted to return. 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:45.560 It seems like nobody gives money back to Live Nation. 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:48.800 It's a public company. What's your take on that, Well, 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:52.800 that's true. I mean there's a certain security. Um, you 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:56.239 want to work with people who are financially solvent, I do, 0:22:56.520 --> 0:23:00.400 I mean, I don't want to be looking over my shoulder, Uh, 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:05.959 concerned that my artist isn't gonna get paid. And and 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:08.160 if there is that kind of risk, then I need 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:12.760 to share that prior to making a deal. And and 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:17.159 and payment terms are very important in a negotiation, but 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:21.480 being solvents is very important. I don't want to really 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:27.119 be looking over my shoulder about being paid. And it 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:30.320 happens very rarely now, it happens once in a while. 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:35.639 And uh, but you know, prefer to be with people 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:37.560 and then and and if I'm not sure if somebody 0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:39.960 we just asked them to pay the money upfront, qual 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:43.960 of it. Okay, let's assume let's start at the beginning. 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:47.320 Let's talk about the stack things you know innately but 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:52.280 not everybody does. Let's assume you're still you're representing a 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:57.400 superstar client. Do you ever tell the act I think 0:23:57.400 --> 0:23:59.200 you should go on the road or you're always waiting 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:03.680 for the manager to call? And what's that conversation as 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:07.400 far as what the timing is of recording, of of touring, Yeah, 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:14.440 it depends. I mean, uh, you know, I feel that 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:18.399 I have the ability to Sometimes people ask me what 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:22.719 my job is and I sometimes describe Sometimes, Um, I 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:24.960 build the car, and sometimes I just put the gas 0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:27.679 in it. I have the ability and the talent to 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:29.560 build the car, but sometimes you just want me to 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:32.639 put the gas in it. So sometimes the artists, they're 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:35.760 telling me, the manager is telling me what they want 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:37.760 and that's all. Then they just want me to route 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:40.919 a tour. They just may want my opinion on certain things. 0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:44.000 On the on the other hand, an artist may say, 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:47.040 put it all together versus show us what you would do, 0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:49.639 show us where you would go, show us who you 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:52.720 would work with, tell us the venues you would play. 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:57.840 So it's just a very individual thing. But you know, 0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:01.399 I having the ability to build it, to build a 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:04.280 car and have now or sometimes like I said, put 0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:06.840 the gas in it. Whatever you need. But but I 0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:10.080 kind of have a menu to offer in a perfect world. 0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:14.159 What do you prefer? I would generally, uh if I 0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:16.880 think so, you know, listen, I work with some very 0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:21.479 very bright people, and um I have uh, you know, 0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:23.359 I have a kind of a philosophy. It takes the 0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:26.320 village and if you function as an island, you die 0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:29.399 as an island. So I prefer to function as a 0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:33.240 village with people. And you know, some of these some 0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:36.040 of my artists have wonderful input. My I worked with 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:38.520 some managers are very bright. They don't have to have 0:25:38.920 --> 0:25:41.800 my particular skill set, but they have different skill sets 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:44.240 that that that I need for the artist career to 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:48.280 be complete. Okay, in the old days, everybody paid ten percent. 0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:52.000 You know, everybody's looking for a discount today. So what's 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:56.679 the deal there, especially with your menu as services? Well, 0:25:56.720 --> 0:26:00.280 I mean, you know there are times. I mean, we 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:04.920 had one client who came to us from another agency, 0:26:05.080 --> 0:26:08.639 you know, look for a deal and ended up paying 0:26:08.760 --> 0:26:12.480 us more because of how much more they earned with 0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:16.280 us and they didn't with that previous UM agency. So 0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:22.080 you know that is hey, you hopefully people will pay 0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:26.480 you for what you're worth. Sometimes people overpay you, not 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:29.120 a little bit to my but and there are sometimes 0:26:29.119 --> 0:26:33.520 I get underpaid. But hopefully UM the artists and and 0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:36.840 and their team will recognize your value that you add 0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:40.200 to the equation and we'll pay you for it. Well, 0:26:40.280 --> 0:26:43.840 you said someone came from another agency to what degree today? 0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:49.720 Is their radiant poaching other other agencies? Oh, I think 0:26:49.760 --> 0:26:53.720 that that that exists always quietly. I know people will 0:26:53.760 --> 0:26:57.240 deny it, but that's a lot of bullshit. I think 0:26:57.280 --> 0:26:59.720 there's a lot I think there's I think internally some 0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:03.600 of the agencies this poetry within there. You know, there's 0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:07.359 a lot of paranoia, you know, but but you know 0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:10.960 poasting always exists. I mean, you know that's the d 0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:13.359 n A of a lot of agents. They see an 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:18.360 opportunity or sometimes I'm I could be uh, I can 0:27:18.440 --> 0:27:21.240 represent an act and I'm hearing about another agent constantly 0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:24.680 knocking on the door. It's it's it's there, it's seed. 0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:27.720 Be naive to think it's not okay. If you look 0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:31.199 at the agency landscape, you know, the big cahunas W M, E, 0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:34.159 C A A. Then in a tier below you have U, 0:27:34.200 --> 0:27:38.320 T A and Wasserman and overall I'm not talking good 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:41.960 better otherwise, but your footprint is smaller. What is your 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:49.639 pitch to go with you as opposed to these larger agencies. Well, 0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:53.720 as I said, I you know, uh, we have a 0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:58.080 worldwide knowledge. I think we're experts and the and the 0:27:58.200 --> 0:28:02.200 and the touring business that we are the uh, maybe 0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:05.000 the only agency on a lot of levels that can 0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:08.720 really compete with the promoters in terms of of of 0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:12.399 what that what an artist can make. I mean I 0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:16.119 sat with one superstar agent from one of these agents agencies. 0:28:16.119 --> 0:28:18.000 And he said to me one day at all one 0:28:18.040 --> 0:28:20.560 he says, I wish I could do what you do. 0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:25.720 I wish I had the time to do what you do. 0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:30.320 And um, and the focus because I got a thousand bands, 0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:33.200 I gotta be a friend too. And you know, I 0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:35.600 always say a man with a thousand friends has none. 0:28:36.080 --> 0:28:39.240 You can be everywhere and know every deal when you 0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:42.000 gotta you know your your your job is to be 0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:44.640 an ambassador a lot of a lot of acts. It's 0:28:44.760 --> 0:28:46.680 very difficult to focus on of this kind of the 0:28:47.680 --> 0:28:50.720 kind of detail you're talking about. It the big the 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:54.000 big agencies, the big agencies. Yes, and you're saying that 0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:58.680 so one of the pictures irrelevant of the veracity. As 0:28:58.760 --> 0:29:01.160 you go and see any A, W M A U 0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:03.880 t A, they can say, WHOA, we're gonna book your tours, 0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:06.680 when we're gonna get you in television, we're gonna get 0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:12.440 your sponsorship. What do you say to that? Sometimes? Yes, 0:29:12.520 --> 0:29:15.800 sometimes now a lot of times it's a big air game. 0:29:16.800 --> 0:29:19.040 I mean, you know, I spent five years in my 0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:21.560 career at William Mars. You know, at a different time, 0:29:22.200 --> 0:29:23.960 and there was there's a lot of there's a lot 0:29:23.960 --> 0:29:27.200 of air to it. So that's that's the game. I mean, 0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:30.440 you walk in there, you know, with nine agents and 0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:34.960 different film people, and sometimes the team really works, and 0:29:35.080 --> 0:29:39.680 sometimes it's just an air game, and sometimes people get disappointed. Hey, 0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:41.560 one of the problems. You can be at one of 0:29:41.560 --> 0:29:44.760 the major agencies and maybe it's maybe it's the literary 0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:48.000 agent that's that you go, this person is done. When 0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:51.240 I was at William Mars, there was some very uh, 0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:53.800 you know, there was some agents that I represented, some 0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:57.320 very big artists in the film and television business. Some 0:29:57.400 --> 0:29:59.640 of them were quite capable, and some of them will 0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:03.840 lose and um, you know, and and sometimes you can 0:30:03.880 --> 0:30:06.280 get stuck with somebody from another area that you don't 0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:08.840 really want and you don't really think is you know 0:30:08.880 --> 0:30:12.120 it has it's good and it's bad. But uh, you 0:30:12.120 --> 0:30:14.040 know a lot of it is there. Sometimes it's not, 0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:16.560 and it depends what the artist needs are. But there 0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:20.400 aren't many rock stars who become major film stars, that's 0:30:20.440 --> 0:30:24.320 for sure. How much of your business is servicing as 0:30:24.320 --> 0:30:28.040 opposed to just doing the work, showing up at gigs, 0:30:28.040 --> 0:30:31.680 calling people, sending presents. Is that important or is just 0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:37.320 the nuts and bolts important. Hey, some people have survived 0:30:37.440 --> 0:30:42.160 very well showing off, bringing gifts, uh, sending presents for 0:30:42.200 --> 0:30:46.120 the kids. You know, it takes all flavors and sometimes 0:30:46.160 --> 0:30:49.520 that really works. That is not what I could depend 0:30:49.560 --> 0:30:52.440 and that's not my number one skill set, so if 0:30:52.480 --> 0:30:54.360 I had to depend on that, But I've seen others, 0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:57.800 and I've seen other successful agents basically thrived that way, 0:30:57.880 --> 0:31:01.240 and I think it's amazing. I couldn't do it, but 0:31:01.280 --> 0:31:03.680 I think it's amazing. So let's assume you have a 0:31:03.720 --> 0:31:08.320 band that does good business for a year, if they're 0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:10.720 not going on tour for another year, how much contact 0:31:10.720 --> 0:31:13.760 will you have for the manager or anybody else involved. No, 0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:18.200 stay in touch, absolutely, but it's certainly. Hey, the artists 0:31:18.280 --> 0:31:21.840 want to know the landscape. They want to know new information, 0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:25.960 they want to know who's doing well. They want to know, um, 0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:30.680 what's what, what? What you see in the future for them? Absolutely, 0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:33.520 try to keep them informed new things that are going on, 0:31:33.640 --> 0:31:37.920 new changes, gossip. Absolutely, well, let's talk about new changes. 0:31:38.000 --> 0:31:41.239 Let's talk as we speak right now, COVID and the 0:31:41.240 --> 0:31:49.160 touring landscape. What's your take there, It's pretty fucked up. Um. 0:31:49.200 --> 0:31:55.280 I think that the indoor situation is very concerning at 0:31:55.280 --> 0:31:59.360 this time, and in the fact that, uh, putting shows 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:03.440 on sale right now is a very difficult climate. It's uh, 0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:06.560 there's a lot of people don't want to certainly sit 0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:09.960 indoors next to um, you know, in a in a 0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:15.440 closed quarters. So the indoor business is slightly altered and 0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:21.760 the outdoor business not as much. But it's very concerning. 0:32:21.760 --> 0:32:23.680 There are a lot of people who will not sit 0:32:23.760 --> 0:32:26.320 at a concert. So you gotta you gotta anticipate you're 0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:30.040 gonna lose some percentage of people going on sale now 0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:33.240 it's not it's not a normal what what what? What 0:32:33.320 --> 0:32:35.840 was a normal on sale? It's not a normal on 0:32:36.000 --> 0:32:38.960 sale at this point. You know, if you sell out 0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:41.200 an arena, you might have been able to sell out too. 0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:44.800 If you you gotta figure you'll gonna lose ten percent, 0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:47.400 you can lose twenty, you can lose five percent, but 0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:51.200 you're gonna lose some percentage. This isn't an ideal time now. 0:32:51.400 --> 0:32:54.760 We we all need to move forward, so sometimes we 0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:59.800 have no choice, but it is. It is a more 0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:04.000 difficult environment and climate right at this moment than it 0:33:04.160 --> 0:33:06.840 normally is. Okay, so we're talking today, what do you 0:33:06.840 --> 0:33:11.040 see for the next couple of months. I think when 0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:14.760 kids start to get vaccinated that will help loosen things up. 0:33:15.280 --> 0:33:19.160 I think the world in general is very difficult. It's 0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:22.600 very hard to plan a worldwide tour now though some 0:33:22.680 --> 0:33:25.719 are doing it, but it's very difficult in terms of 0:33:26.480 --> 0:33:28.640 what countries are going to be open, and a lot 0:33:28.680 --> 0:33:31.080 of times we're just we're winging it. We hope it's 0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:34.840 going to be okay in March or April or next September, 0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:38.640 but it's it's it's still a crapshoot right now. There's 0:33:38.680 --> 0:33:42.640 nothing that's defined that you can Hey, Australia, I've got 0:33:42.640 --> 0:33:48.160 a tour in Australia that was supposed to happen last February. 0:33:48.200 --> 0:33:51.760 That's now maybe it's supposed to start in March. That 0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:55.680 now maybe moved to next March. So how do you 0:33:55.800 --> 0:34:00.480 plan a tour? You know, it's just it's it's very difficult. 0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:03.760 At this point. You just have to I think you 0:34:03.800 --> 0:34:06.560 have to just be prepared when the bell rings to go. 0:34:07.200 --> 0:34:09.320 And then there are sometimes some artists are going to 0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:12.239 dictate to you what they want to do and they say, 0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:14.239 let's go, we want to go in the spring. We 0:34:14.280 --> 0:34:15.759 want to go in the summer. We want to go 0:34:15.800 --> 0:34:18.560 in the winter, and it's a craft shoot. You may 0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:22.360 you may try to, but you may not get there. Okay, 0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:26.440 artist comes to you looking for your expertise today about 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:29.600 touring within the next three months to a year. What 0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:37.480 do you tell them? You're better off at this moment, Uh, 0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:40.759 if you can play outdoors. I would suggest that for 0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:44.240 the late spring summer. I would suggest that I would 0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:48.719 just say, uh, and you would lose most probably some 0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:52.920 percentage of business being indoors. And you go and you 0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:55.520 take a big risk if you want to be indoors 0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:58.960 in January, February, March. The first quarter. I think the 0:34:58.960 --> 0:35:02.920 first quarter of this year is is pretty screwed up already. 0:35:02.960 --> 0:35:06.960 I I think it's uh, it's it's there's there's just 0:35:07.000 --> 0:35:10.680 an element of risk and and and the other problem 0:35:10.800 --> 0:35:13.840 is you go city by city, you have different rules everywhere, 0:35:13.840 --> 0:35:16.680 and the rules changed. It's such a moving target. I'm 0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:18.800 going here, I'm going there. No, you're not going this 0:35:19.000 --> 0:35:23.240 this mandate so hopefully I can't predict how the virus 0:35:23.320 --> 0:35:26.400 will you know, uh, but the life of the virus 0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:28.920 will be. I don't think anyone knew or believe there 0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:32.439 was a delta variants eight weeks ago when the show 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:36.759 started going back on sale. But it's just, um, it's 0:35:36.800 --> 0:35:39.520 just a very it's it's a crapshoot, you know, and 0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:41.680 some people are willing to take it and move forward. 0:35:41.719 --> 0:35:43.520 And you know, it used to be like let's go 0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:45.640 out and celebrate on the road. Now let's go out 0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:49.759 and survive on the road. Okay, in the old days, 0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:52.839 you know, you tend to I'm talking about going back 0:35:52.840 --> 0:35:56.839 a couple of decades, people toured all year. Now a 0:35:56.880 --> 0:36:00.759 lot of stuff is concentrated in the summer. What's your 0:36:00.760 --> 0:36:07.719 take on that. Well, you know, there's, first of all, 0:36:07.760 --> 0:36:12.759 there's more opportunities in the summer because of the outdoor events. 0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:18.440 So that's that's why there's a greater concentration obviously, whether 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:24.640 it's um UM fairs and you know i amphitheater shows 0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:31.040 and festivals. Hey, whether whether when the weather is available 0:36:31.560 --> 0:36:36.239 for shows that that's why there's always um you know, 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:39.480 whether it plays a factor in opportunity. And so when 0:36:39.480 --> 0:36:41.880 you get to the winter, I mean people can create 0:36:41.920 --> 0:36:46.200 indoor that you know, trying to indoor events, but it's 0:36:46.239 --> 0:36:48.520 it's it's much more difficult. It's much easier to have 0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:52.280 a rib roast and in Ohio and you know, and somewhere, 0:36:52.400 --> 0:36:55.239 and so there's just a lot more opportunity. And that's 0:36:55.239 --> 0:36:58.240 why there's much more touring in the summer. What about 0:36:58.239 --> 0:37:01.399 the issue of the on sale date and how much 0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:04.520 money people have? Let's start with on sale date. Used 0:37:04.560 --> 0:37:07.000 to be concerts. You know, it could be a couple 0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:08.920 of weeks, the tickets would go on said nothing go 0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:12.760 on sale two years before. What do you think should 0:37:12.760 --> 0:37:17.680 be done well with COVID? I mean, you know, you know, 0:37:17.960 --> 0:37:20.480 I'm a student of this game as well as uh 0:37:20.560 --> 0:37:24.640 you know, um, I practice it. I watch what others do? 0:37:24.920 --> 0:37:27.960 I mean, I watched I watched the Elton John on 0:37:28.080 --> 0:37:32.640 sale where he actually went on sale in cities and 0:37:32.719 --> 0:37:35.720 play in stadiums and cities where he had arena dates 0:37:35.960 --> 0:37:39.000 to play prior. That was amazing to me, and he 0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:42.560 did well. So I learned from that. Can you really 0:37:42.640 --> 0:37:45.400 do that? Can you really pull this off? Can you? 0:37:45.960 --> 0:37:48.840 And nobody really knows prior to what happening when you 0:37:49.120 --> 0:37:52.680 get to gauge what the public does. So I'm a 0:37:52.760 --> 0:37:57.279 student and I'm always observing what I see, and and 0:37:57.280 --> 0:38:00.920 and and and all of that feeds it feeds my 0:38:01.000 --> 0:38:05.080 brain as far as how how to move forward. But 0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:09.880 so right now, on sales, it's it's, it's. It's a 0:38:10.000 --> 0:38:13.840 very unusual time because of the COVID situation to be 0:38:13.920 --> 0:38:16.719 able to say this is how on sales should be. 0:38:17.160 --> 0:38:19.439 I mean there are times, I mean I might think 0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:23.840 of going on sale six weeks in advance, which which 0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:28.720 we haven't done in in third thirty years. I might think, now, 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:31.720 let's go on sale six weeks for a show because 0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:36.279 our window was open, where before I would not consider that, 0:38:36.480 --> 0:38:39.120 and I would consider being on sale over a year 0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:42.919 in front because the window was open. Now also, as 0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:46.160 time goes on and the COVID situation hopefully gets better, 0:38:46.520 --> 0:38:48.840 there's gonna be a on of shows. It's gonna be 0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:58.319 a cluster funk out there. Okay, let's see. Let's look 0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:03.040 pre COVID pre COVID it what's a reasonable amount of time? Uh, 0:39:03.160 --> 0:39:07.640 the on sale before the Deep plays three four months? 0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:11.200 You can go on sale October for a February show. 0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:13.719 And what do you think about the the acts who 0:39:13.800 --> 0:39:21.520 going on sale like a year before? Uh? Listen, there's 0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:26.719 no one formula that guarantees you success. Uh, listen a 0:39:26.760 --> 0:39:29.560 lot of times and when I say three four months, 0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:32.480 that's America, Europe. It's very natural to go on SAILI 0:39:32.560 --> 0:39:37.080 a year in front. So you know, there's different parameters 0:39:37.120 --> 0:39:40.200 for different countries. What's what's the norm here and what's 0:39:40.200 --> 0:39:43.520 the norm in Australia is very different sometimes, or what's 0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:46.960 what's the norm here? What's the northern Germany? So you 0:39:47.080 --> 0:39:52.399 just acqui acquiesced to what the population and what the 0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:56.480 habits are of that particular country. Okay, so there are 0:39:56.520 --> 0:39:59.480 people say, hey, I want my day to play earlier 0:39:59.480 --> 0:40:01.319 in the summer because the kids are going to run 0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:05.319 out of money. Do you think that's a factor. I 0:40:05.360 --> 0:40:07.839 think that's a factor. I think there are a lot 0:40:07.840 --> 0:40:10.640 of factors, I think, you know, but that is absolutely 0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:13.080 a factor. How much competitions in the market, who else 0:40:13.239 --> 0:40:16.359 is coming you know, all of you know, yeah, all 0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:20.440 of this is a factor. Um. Oh, you can live 0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:23.880 in a city that's being supported by uh, you know, 0:40:23.920 --> 0:40:26.480 a major company that's moving out, and there's a lot 0:40:26.520 --> 0:40:29.719 of factors. But that go into an on sale competition 0:40:29.840 --> 0:40:32.720 is probably is as fierce as anything. How many other 0:40:32.880 --> 0:40:38.239 artists are going on sale in my genre? In that city. 0:40:39.000 --> 0:40:42.880 Speaking of genres, you made your bones in the rock world. 0:40:43.800 --> 0:40:47.279 Certainly in terms of the Spotify top fifty, rock isn't 0:40:47.320 --> 0:40:54.439 even there. What's gonna sell as we go forward? Well, 0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:56.799 I think pop is the only thing right now that's 0:40:56.840 --> 0:41:03.120 moving the needle. I mean, it's uh, if you right now, 0:41:03.200 --> 0:41:07.879 you can build a career on cont having enough pop hits. 0:41:07.920 --> 0:41:11.120 And what I what I've observed through the years now 0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:13.520 that they used to be you would be a team 0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:17.560 flash and you'd be gone, and that doesn't exist anymore. 0:41:18.120 --> 0:41:23.720 It's you have enough hits. Britney Spears justin Timberlake, Spice Girls, 0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:28.400 these Backstreet Boys, new kids on the block. These artists 0:41:28.560 --> 0:41:32.800 have super careers, you know. And they were pop artists 0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:35.719 that that, and they were Steen stars and then in 0:41:35.760 --> 0:41:38.839 the earlier days they would have their running they'd be over. 0:41:39.160 --> 0:41:43.600 Now the audiences grow with them, so uh, there's no 0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:48.680 longer that uh, you know, so pop to pop today 0:41:48.760 --> 0:41:51.040 some of the artists Bruno Mars for the rest of 0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:53.440 your life, paint to paint for the rest of your life. 0:41:53.719 --> 0:41:57.000 These people have careers the rest of their lives. There 0:41:57.040 --> 0:41:59.399 will be people seeing them in forty years from now 0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:04.920 and they are the new Billie Joel's and Paul McCartney's 0:42:05.000 --> 0:42:07.840 and you know all you know, these kind of artists 0:42:07.920 --> 0:42:12.239 who have tons of hits that most of them will 0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:16.000 sustain and carry an audience with them for for a lifetime. 0:42:16.600 --> 0:42:22.359 What about the hip hop business, I think that will 0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:26.720 happen also. I think some of the you know, Travis Scott, 0:42:26.840 --> 0:42:29.640 he could have a career for you know, uh, I 0:42:29.800 --> 0:42:34.200 think his following will stay with him post Malone. I 0:42:34.200 --> 0:42:37.000 think a lot of these superstars, these people people grow 0:42:37.080 --> 0:42:39.799 up in a certain period of time and they identify 0:42:40.040 --> 0:42:43.200 with the culture at that time, and that's what they 0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:46.399 remember and and and then twenty years go by and 0:42:46.719 --> 0:42:49.440 that's what they you know, that's what they remember that 0:42:49.520 --> 0:42:51.959 they went out with their girlfriend and they met here 0:42:52.000 --> 0:42:54.400 and they went you know, and that's the soundtrack of 0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:57.279 their lives. And so I really believe a lot of 0:42:57.320 --> 0:43:03.040 the superstars will will sustain for a long time. Okay, 0:43:03.160 --> 0:43:07.440 let's talk about ticket prices. On one extreme, you have 0:43:07.560 --> 0:43:10.439 the Stones who completely flex price, it's almost like buying 0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:15.200 an airline ticket. Then you have other acts a doll 0:43:15.840 --> 0:43:18.759 tailor's we are trying to get every last dollar out 0:43:18.760 --> 0:43:22.480 of the market. You have a superstar act, what do 0:43:22.560 --> 0:43:25.560 you tell them? What are your protections? Metallica has certainly 0:43:25.600 --> 0:43:28.799 not wanted to overcharge or even you know, play it 0:43:28.880 --> 0:43:35.960 what the market will bear. You know, it's an end festival. 0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:40.839 The artist controls the picture. I I make suggestions, it's 0:43:41.760 --> 0:43:44.680 if if you know, it's but you have to know 0:43:44.880 --> 0:43:49.080 sometimes when you may hit a wall and you may 0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:53.239 say you know. The dynamic pricing is uh. I think 0:43:53.480 --> 0:43:57.560 a very important feature to now be part of an 0:43:57.560 --> 0:44:00.920 on sale so that you can maximum eise or dollars 0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:04.760 when you put a show on sale. But I really 0:44:04.800 --> 0:44:09.280 believe if you and people will flex and reduce the price. 0:44:09.440 --> 0:44:14.480 And but in general, I feel you want to max 0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:17.560 the dollars. I'm not comfortable. And again it's up to 0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:21.480 the artists, but I'm not comfortable trying to have the 0:44:21.600 --> 0:44:25.080 public being the one to horror as many dollars and 0:44:25.200 --> 0:44:29.600 be that kind of uh, you know, solicitor. But again 0:44:29.680 --> 0:44:31.319 I work for the artists, and if they want me 0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:34.880 to maximize every dollar any which way, I will do 0:44:34.920 --> 0:44:37.800 what they want. I will share with them my thoughts 0:44:38.200 --> 0:44:45.120 about UM, about potentially hurting your fan base UM, and 0:44:45.440 --> 0:44:48.080 maybe they'll care. Maybe they won't. But all I can 0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:51.200 do is offer my advice in my opinion, But it 0:44:51.239 --> 0:44:53.319 really is up to the artists and what they want 0:44:53.400 --> 0:44:57.240 me to do. Knowing knowing the uh, you know the position. 0:44:57.840 --> 0:45:01.120 So you talk about high prices, do high prices hurt 0:45:01.160 --> 0:45:07.239 the AX career their fan base? It can? We'll go 0:45:07.320 --> 0:45:09.920 a little deeper it can, you can? You can know 0:45:10.040 --> 0:45:12.960 it can? I mean, if if you're pushing, I mean, 0:45:12.960 --> 0:45:15.880 if you're gonna go push five fifty dollars, let's a 0:45:15.920 --> 0:45:18.640 ticket or you know, you know whatever, and that's what 0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:21.439 you're putting out there the public. You're gonna you're gonna 0:45:21.480 --> 0:45:23.880 hit a wall and then you're gonna not gonna sell tickets, 0:45:24.560 --> 0:45:28.320 and uh, then you're hurting your artists. So there's different 0:45:28.320 --> 0:45:31.719 ways people try to disguise how they might do it. 0:45:31.800 --> 0:45:35.400 A platinum v I p there's uh, there's all kinds 0:45:35.440 --> 0:45:38.600 of ways to be able to obtain the dollars without 0:45:38.719 --> 0:45:43.640 necessarily prostituting yourself. So I am not a believer in 0:45:43.800 --> 0:45:47.759 prostituting yourself if you um, and I'm also you know, 0:45:48.080 --> 0:45:50.359 but but the goal is to try to take as 0:45:50.440 --> 0:45:52.759 much money as you can and not leave it on 0:45:52.800 --> 0:45:56.160 the secondary market. I think dynamic ticketing, I think the 0:45:56.320 --> 0:45:59.360 V I think there are platforms that we have that 0:45:59.560 --> 0:46:03.320 help you to take in most of the money. Okay, 0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:08.040 so those would be you know, V I P. Platinum. 0:46:08.080 --> 0:46:09.880 What else helps you take in most of the money. 0:46:10.160 --> 0:46:13.200 Aisle seats. I think aisle seats now is a very 0:46:13.280 --> 0:46:17.160 big income earner. A lot of people would prefer to 0:46:17.280 --> 0:46:20.160 sit you know, four seats in and would pay extra money. 0:46:20.719 --> 0:46:26.520 The uh you know, there's so there's uh, there's there's 0:46:26.600 --> 0:46:33.319 many different ways to maximize Hey, dynamic, dynamic pricing can 0:46:33.560 --> 0:46:38.600 can basically get you with the market bears and uh 0:46:38.800 --> 0:46:44.880 so I would find that, you know, again, I'm not 0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:47.560 in favor. I mean, some people will sell the first 0:46:47.600 --> 0:46:50.640 two rows a thousand dollars and and and that's fine, 0:46:50.680 --> 0:46:54.040 that's kind of unique. But and I and I think 0:46:54.080 --> 0:46:56.799 it's fine that you know, but I think I think, 0:46:57.160 --> 0:46:59.440 I think you want to avoid the image that you're 0:46:59.560 --> 0:47:02.600 prostent do it to yourself. That's all. Whatever works within 0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:08.400 the confines of your artists that that doesn't prostitute yourself. Okay, 0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:12.239 you and me both know that the fees are outside 0:47:12.239 --> 0:47:15.480 of the deal, so that the act can't commission them. 0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:20.239 So ultimately Ticketmaster or whatever ticketing company takes all the heat. 0:47:21.239 --> 0:47:28.200 What is going to happen with the fees going forward? Well, 0:47:28.360 --> 0:47:33.560 I mean I don't know ultimately where ticketing goes. And uh, 0:47:34.000 --> 0:47:36.000 I mean I you know, I have the fantasy that 0:47:36.080 --> 0:47:38.480 one day that the artists will be able to have 0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:40.560 every artists will be able to have their own ticketing 0:47:40.920 --> 0:47:42.960 and be able to charge their own fees and do 0:47:43.000 --> 0:47:45.239 it directly and be in control of that pick their 0:47:45.480 --> 0:47:47.480 ticketing company. I mean, I would love to see us 0:47:47.520 --> 0:47:51.880 have our own ticketing company and and choose that going 0:47:51.920 --> 0:47:54.759 on sale. Let's kind of out of our that that 0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:58.759 doesn't exist yet, and I'm not technologically advanced to know 0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:05.760 how eventually about to happen. But the until certain bigger 0:48:05.840 --> 0:48:11.680 things change in the overall um scaled I don't believe. 0:48:12.000 --> 0:48:14.600 I believe the fee game will continue as it is 0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:17.320 at the moment, but it's going to take a bigger 0:48:17.320 --> 0:48:21.120 picture to change it. As an agent, how much power 0:48:21.160 --> 0:48:23.560 do you have over the fees? And do you ever 0:48:23.719 --> 0:48:28.120 have acts who share in the fees? Yes, we have 0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:30.760 acts to share in the fees. It depends on the act. 0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:34.320 The act is the power if you've got a superstar act, 0:48:34.600 --> 0:48:37.879 you can, you can, you can participate in a lot 0:48:37.880 --> 0:48:40.840 of revenue. It's it's like if you're selling out a 0:48:40.920 --> 0:48:43.799 venue and I'm walking into your venue and I'm gonna 0:48:43.800 --> 0:48:47.320 sell out forty thousand tickets, that's that you have building 0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:51.120 power and you can. You know, there's a lot of 0:48:51.120 --> 0:48:53.799 money to be made for the buildings and so sometimes 0:48:53.880 --> 0:48:56.920 and the venues and the promoters, so in order to 0:48:57.000 --> 0:49:00.360 have you, they're willing to give up for it. About 0:49:00.360 --> 0:49:02.719 an act, it's further down the food chain where it's 0:49:02.760 --> 0:49:05.000 actually a negotiation where you know it's not going to 0:49:05.080 --> 0:49:09.200 go instantly clean in the stadium or an arena. You 0:49:09.400 --> 0:49:14.480 you have, you have, you have less, you have less um, 0:49:15.560 --> 0:49:20.319 you have less power or um negotiating strength. In those cases, Hey, 0:49:20.320 --> 0:49:22.759 a lot of times you know you haven't acted. Let's 0:49:22.760 --> 0:49:26.640 they can do. Hey, you know sometimes you are a 0:49:26.640 --> 0:49:30.000 real to negotiation as when you guarantee again, it's first reward. 0:49:30.480 --> 0:49:33.200 So I if I get them, if I can sell 0:49:33.239 --> 0:49:37.040 them all, I deserve I deserve it all. If I can't, 0:49:37.120 --> 0:49:39.640 I don't deserve it all. I mean I have artists 0:49:39.719 --> 0:49:42.319 that don't expect to make as much as some of 0:49:42.360 --> 0:49:45.799 my other artists. That's all they know. Well, this is 0:49:45.840 --> 0:49:50.120 a superstar. They will get this more than I will. However, 0:49:50.560 --> 0:49:53.680 I can at least tell them what the scoreboard is 0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:56.240 and try to get them as much within their ranks 0:49:56.239 --> 0:49:59.279 as they possibly can get, knowing what else is left 0:49:59.280 --> 0:50:02.320 on the table. Okay, let's go back to the beginning. 0:50:02.360 --> 0:50:05.520 Where are you from? I grew up. I grew up 0:50:05.560 --> 0:50:09.400 in Bayside Queen's basically. And what did your parents do 0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:14.480 for a living? My father was in the garment industry 0:50:15.200 --> 0:50:19.120 and my mom was a homemaker with four boys. Four boys? 0:50:19.120 --> 0:50:21.799 Where are you in the hierarchy? I was third. I 0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:24.040 have a younger brother who's ten years younger than me, 0:50:24.680 --> 0:50:27.920 so I was the baby for ten years. Okay, and 0:50:28.120 --> 0:50:32.160 you graduate from high school, what's the next step? I 0:50:32.200 --> 0:50:36.960 went to NASA Community College, finished NASA Community College, and 0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:41.360 two an a half years I met a I met somebody, 0:50:41.440 --> 0:50:45.839 a dear friend of mine, Corky Abdo from who used 0:50:45.880 --> 0:50:48.759 to play in a local bar band when I went 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:50.400 and I used to go see the band. I was 0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:52.160 nineteen years old. He used to go to the club 0:50:52.239 --> 0:50:56.319 see the band, and uh we met at that I 0:50:56.360 --> 0:50:58.880 didn't know he went to Nassau Community College. But we 0:50:58.920 --> 0:51:01.919 met at the college and I was kind of a 0:51:01.960 --> 0:51:04.400 little lost in my world, and he offered me a 0:51:04.480 --> 0:51:08.319 job to be their roadie, which I remember bringing home 0:51:08.360 --> 0:51:11.279 a van with equipment in it and uh my dad says, oh, 0:51:11.320 --> 0:51:14.680 you're a movie man, and uh wait wait. What they 0:51:14.760 --> 0:51:17.239 learned for me is that I really wasn't very good 0:51:17.239 --> 0:51:20.200 with my hands and that I had a gift to gab. 0:51:20.880 --> 0:51:24.920 So about six or eight weeks later, I became their manager, 0:51:25.239 --> 0:51:28.600 which was really booking clubs in Long Island and New 0:51:28.680 --> 0:51:33.120 York City. And that's really how I always started. Okay, 0:51:33.120 --> 0:51:35.960 and were you a big music fan before that? I 0:51:36.000 --> 0:51:38.560 was a music fan. Yes, as a matter of fact, 0:51:38.880 --> 0:51:41.640 when I would when I first went to one of 0:51:41.640 --> 0:51:43.080 the clubs and I had a job, and I said, 0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:47.920 wait a second, there's music, there's girls, they're getting high. 0:51:48.200 --> 0:51:52.719 This is I could do this for a little So yes, 0:51:52.840 --> 0:51:55.120 I was very attractive as a matter of fact, when 0:51:55.120 --> 0:51:59.200 I realized that I could actually do this for real, 0:51:59.840 --> 0:52:03.640 and I I was all in. I have found I 0:52:03.960 --> 0:52:07.759 was very fortunate. I had found a passion, and um, 0:52:08.280 --> 0:52:12.160 I wanted to be in this game. I wanted to 0:52:12.239 --> 0:52:17.520 play on a major league level, and I was, uh, 0:52:17.680 --> 0:52:21.439 you know, I was very committed. Two I was only 0:52:21.520 --> 0:52:23.960 the start for it. That's basically where it's at. I was, 0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:29.360 did you starve? Yes, basically I was. I struggled for 0:52:29.400 --> 0:52:32.520 a long time. I lived on unemployment. I you know, 0:52:33.200 --> 0:52:38.320 I had I had jobs in the music business. Um. 0:52:38.360 --> 0:52:42.239 I went from uh when my origin goes. When I 0:52:42.280 --> 0:52:46.600 was nineteen, I worked with the Salvation Maybe. Um that's 0:52:46.600 --> 0:52:49.280 how I met Billy Joel by the way. They opened 0:52:49.280 --> 0:52:53.040 for Billy's band in the Hamptons, and Billy and I 0:52:53.040 --> 0:52:54.960 had a vibe with each other. He was we were 0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:57.480 both lifeers. He saw me as a synergetic kind of 0:52:57.520 --> 0:52:59.919 guy and I and Billy was kind of the star 0:53:00.000 --> 0:53:02.600 are in his in his band, the Hassles, and I 0:53:02.640 --> 0:53:05.640 thought we could do something. And anyway, I went on 0:53:05.840 --> 0:53:08.320 from there and wait, just wait, once you start managing, 0:53:08.360 --> 0:53:13.080 school is done. School. Yeah. Once I got yeah, I lost. 0:53:13.560 --> 0:53:16.399 I think I peaked in the eighth grade and uh, 0:53:17.160 --> 0:53:20.640 I think it started going downhill from there. And by 0:53:20.640 --> 0:53:23.600 the time I was in college, I really didn't have 0:53:23.960 --> 0:53:27.799 a lot of interest in college. I didn't uh you know, 0:53:28.040 --> 0:53:30.120 it was like I didn't have another place to go, 0:53:30.640 --> 0:53:33.319 but I didn't really have UH, I didn't really have 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:37.319 a path. I was kind of lost. You're managing Salvation 0:53:37.480 --> 0:53:41.759 Army Band, You're right, and you're going to uh you 0:53:41.800 --> 0:53:45.799 meet Billy Joel. Then what happens? Well, you know, I 0:53:45.920 --> 0:53:51.040 eventually got myself a job at this company called Universal 0:53:51.080 --> 0:53:53.600 Attractions would still exist, and they were really an R 0:53:53.680 --> 0:53:56.080 and B agency, and they wanted me to be like 0:53:56.120 --> 0:53:59.680 the White Hippie Department and go find bands. And I 0:53:59.680 --> 0:54:02.839 actually really found this band called the Frost, who were 0:54:02.880 --> 0:54:09.759 from Michigan. And and so I was about one and 0:54:09.800 --> 0:54:12.120 I was managed and I became the Frost manager. I 0:54:12.160 --> 0:54:13.920 went out and saw them, and I'm coming from this 0:54:14.000 --> 0:54:16.960 agency and now I was being a booking agent and 0:54:17.200 --> 0:54:19.919 Universal and here I am meeting this band, the Frost 0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:23.400 and became their manager. And I was twenty one years old. 0:54:23.760 --> 0:54:26.840 And I remember we played Cobo Hall, which was the 0:54:26.840 --> 0:54:29.640 arena at that time in Detroit, and we were second 0:54:29.680 --> 0:54:31.520 on the bill because they had a real big following 0:54:31.560 --> 0:54:34.040 in the state of Michigan. And we were second on 0:54:34.080 --> 0:54:37.840 the bill. It was three Dog Night and uh, Frost 0:54:37.920 --> 0:54:40.200 was second. And there I am a Cobo Hall and 0:54:40.239 --> 0:54:42.200 this is kind of but I liked this but it 0:54:42.239 --> 0:54:45.719 was a little bit over my head, but I um, 0:54:45.760 --> 0:54:48.759 I was kind of uh So what happened is the 0:54:48.760 --> 0:54:51.440 band eventually broke up and there was a guitar player 0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:54.239 named Dick Wagner who was in that band, and Dick 0:54:54.280 --> 0:54:57.319 and I. Dick and I formed a relationship and I 0:54:57.360 --> 0:55:00.680 tried to put a band together with Dick Wagner, one 0:55:00.680 --> 0:55:03.440 of the drummer from the Salvation Navy and Billy Joel. 0:55:03.920 --> 0:55:06.960 Billy came down to one session and that was it 0:55:07.239 --> 0:55:11.879 and he moved on to his own solo career. Dick 0:55:12.600 --> 0:55:16.160 Um and myself and we had this guy, Gregor Rama 0:55:16.200 --> 0:55:18.480 from the m Boy Dukes. We formed the band called 0:55:18.600 --> 0:55:22.560 URSA Major We try to we we hearst recorded and 0:55:22.800 --> 0:55:24.080 just when we were going to run out of money 0:55:24.120 --> 0:55:27.480 to keep the band alive, a producer named Bob Ezram 0:55:27.640 --> 0:55:31.600 showed up and UH did an amazing, amazing job producing 0:55:31.600 --> 0:55:35.520 their record and we were signed to our c A 0:55:35.880 --> 0:55:38.759 and UM, But at the end of the day it 0:55:38.800 --> 0:55:41.920 didn't work out. We disbanded and I ended up getting 0:55:41.960 --> 0:55:44.920 a job at twenty three making a hundred bucks at 0:55:44.960 --> 0:55:49.560 an agency called Sutton Artists, and UH the biggest contemporary 0:55:49.560 --> 0:55:51.560 act was all Over Gut three at the time, and 0:55:51.640 --> 0:55:55.560 again I was like, go out there and you know, 0:55:55.680 --> 0:55:58.840 and find acts. And what they did let me do though, 0:55:58.960 --> 0:56:03.600 because in between this experience I also promoted concerts at 0:56:03.680 --> 0:56:07.480 Sunny New Balls, where I met my white money. You're 0:56:07.520 --> 0:56:11.040 promoting concerts. Where's the money coming from the Sunny Pool? 0:56:11.840 --> 0:56:14.840 You know what happened is um my, my. I go 0:56:14.960 --> 0:56:18.759 back to my friend Cooky. He he found two dentists. 0:56:19.160 --> 0:56:23.480 They gave us twenty five thousand dollars to promote concerts 0:56:23.520 --> 0:56:27.240 at Sunny New Balls. And this goes back like seventy three. 0:56:27.640 --> 0:56:33.120 So I bought Frank Zappa. I overpaid. I overpaid for everybody. 0:56:33.200 --> 0:56:36.320 So I lost the all day of money and and 0:56:36.520 --> 0:56:39.359 but I did make relationships with the people at New 0:56:39.480 --> 0:56:42.640 pal To eventually at Queen's College, and they let me 0:56:42.760 --> 0:56:46.440 be their buyer, buy their concerts and paid me a commission. 0:56:46.480 --> 0:56:49.879 And the agencies at Sutton they let me do that 0:56:49.960 --> 0:56:53.080 to subsidize my salary. And what I kept doing is 0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:56.400 buying Billy Joel because now Billy had a hit single 0:56:56.400 --> 0:56:58.600 and had uh you know, and and we had a 0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:01.719 connection and a relation ship and he was with another agency, 0:57:01.800 --> 0:57:04.439 and I was like, Jesus, I really want to work 0:57:04.480 --> 0:57:07.680 with Billy and and when I heard the Piano Man album, 0:57:08.080 --> 0:57:10.680 I was just I mean, I was blown away. I 0:57:10.719 --> 0:57:13.080 didn't know that this guy was talented. I knew he 0:57:13.120 --> 0:57:15.720 was something special, but I didn't know he was this special. 0:57:15.960 --> 0:57:18.000 So I was kind of blown away. I was a fan. 0:57:18.080 --> 0:57:20.240 I thought it was an amazing artist, and I really 0:57:20.280 --> 0:57:22.520 wanted to work with him. And that was one that 0:57:22.600 --> 0:57:26.000 was the way I kept going was I kept buying him. 0:57:26.200 --> 0:57:28.880 I kept seeing him a Queen's College, at Nupolt's and 0:57:29.080 --> 0:57:32.200 you know, we continued, Okay, so you're buying, You're staying 0:57:32.200 --> 0:57:35.320 in business, You're buying Billy Joel. Keep going, so I 0:57:35.320 --> 0:57:38.480 I I. So I stayed in touch with Billy and um, 0:57:38.520 --> 0:57:41.520 I'm working as Sutton Artists and I seeing Billy and 0:57:41.880 --> 0:57:43.479 you know, one day I went up to his house 0:57:43.520 --> 0:57:46.200 and he told me, uh, you know, I should go 0:57:46.240 --> 0:57:51.040 speak to his wife Elizabeth at the time and uh 0:57:51.080 --> 0:57:53.960 and at the time it was a kind of an 0:57:54.000 --> 0:57:57.680 ironic thing that happened. There was a festival in more Self, France, 0:57:57.720 --> 0:58:00.840 and Jazz Festival, and we represented for Man and Tony 0:58:00.880 --> 0:58:04.640 Williams lifetime and so, and Elizabeth was working on this 0:58:04.760 --> 0:58:10.120 festival herself, so we both went over to southern France 0:58:10.640 --> 0:58:13.360 and we didn't go to the festival. We went to 0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:17.960 Santo pay together. And I knew at that weekend and 0:58:18.000 --> 0:58:20.760 now Billy's career at that point he had this was 0:58:20.800 --> 0:58:25.240 he put out his third album, is kind of not 0:58:25.400 --> 0:58:28.520 really making them, you know, taking him to the next step, 0:58:29.040 --> 0:58:34.240 and there was internal change going on and uh, and 0:58:34.280 --> 0:58:38.040 that's why Billy suggested I meet with Elizabeth and and Uh. 0:58:38.360 --> 0:58:41.360 Elizabeth and I spent the weekend together and we became 0:58:41.400 --> 0:58:43.919 close friends. And I knew that weekend I was gonna 0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:49.560 be Billy's agent and m On August sixteenth, nineteen seventy six, me, 0:58:49.760 --> 0:58:52.360 Billy and Elizabeth had a mock meeting in their town 0:58:52.400 --> 0:58:56.760 house and we both voted for me to be the agent, 0:58:57.400 --> 0:58:59.920 and me and Elizabeth voted for her to be the manager, 0:59:01.160 --> 0:59:04.920 and I left Sutton Artists. They wanted me to be 0:59:05.000 --> 0:59:07.880 in business on my own, so I started. They were 0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:10.360 home run management and I was home run agency at 0:59:10.360 --> 0:59:16.360 the time, and that's how my career second. Did you 0:59:16.360 --> 0:59:21.360 think you're up to the gig? Yes, yes, I was 0:59:22.720 --> 0:59:25.560 as Gary Busey said to Joe Cocka one night when 0:59:25.600 --> 0:59:28.440 I was there at the Greek Theater. Success is when 0:59:28.480 --> 0:59:33.680 opportunity meets preparation. I was well prepared. I understood. I 0:59:33.840 --> 0:59:36.400 was somebody. I was a student of this game. I 0:59:36.520 --> 0:59:39.720 was a sponge. I understood what to do. I had 0:59:39.720 --> 0:59:43.360 a philosophy about what to do. Uh. You know, it 0:59:43.520 --> 0:59:46.760 was like and nobody knew me. I was a nobody, 0:59:46.840 --> 0:59:50.280 so it was like, why are you going to this guy? 0:59:50.440 --> 0:59:53.520 I mean, you know, and uh, I remember one time 0:59:54.120 --> 0:59:56.960 they had me meet with their attorney and he just 0:59:57.080 --> 1:00:00.240 quizzed me to see if does does he know he's 1:00:00.240 --> 1:00:03.520 doing And the answer was yes. And I had a 1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:05.520 philosophy when I started with Billy, was like, we're not 1:00:05.640 --> 1:00:08.760 opening for anybody. You know, if we played fifteen under seats, 1:00:08.720 --> 1:00:11.120 if we played two thousand and open for anybody, you 1:00:11.200 --> 1:00:13.800 go headline, because when you go headline, they'll come back 1:00:13.840 --> 1:00:16.840 and we'll get the next time. So that became really 1:00:17.000 --> 1:00:20.880 there was a real philosophy about how to how to 1:00:21.000 --> 1:00:23.560 do this. But I was prepared. I was prepared for 1:00:23.600 --> 1:00:27.840 an opportunity though I was only one who knew it. Okay, 1:00:27.840 --> 1:00:30.200 if you did, you're on a home run. I mean, 1:00:30.240 --> 1:00:32.720 you have your home run agency. It's a very tight network. 1:00:32.960 --> 1:00:34.800 Are you on a percentage or to give you a 1:00:34.800 --> 1:00:39.280 salary discurse? Yes? Now, Actually, um, when I first started, 1:00:39.880 --> 1:00:41.800 I went from like I think I was making a 1:00:41.840 --> 1:00:46.000 hundred fifty and I went to to five hundred, like 1:00:46.200 --> 1:00:48.440 on Friday and making a hundred and fifty on Monday 1:00:48.440 --> 1:00:50.840 and making five hundred. It was like I can get 1:00:50.880 --> 1:00:52.720 rid of the toyota. I got a cougar. I moved 1:00:52.760 --> 1:00:55.600 into the city from Queens. I mean it was a 1:00:55.600 --> 1:00:59.200 life changer, but it wasn't you know. I wasn't like, hey, 1:00:59.240 --> 1:01:01.320 you made it, but it was the beginning of of 1:01:02.680 --> 1:01:06.880 seeing a new world. Okay, you have the home run agency, 1:01:07.600 --> 1:01:10.120 when do you start signing your acts? In addition to 1:01:10.200 --> 1:01:13.920 billion who were there, well, we I ended up signing 1:01:14.000 --> 1:01:22.720 Phoebe Snow and Harry Chapin and Garland Jefferies and you 1:01:22.760 --> 1:01:27.080 know then and and then, um, I I got the 1:01:27.120 --> 1:01:31.760 Beach Boys and uh actually he was doing quite well. 1:01:31.840 --> 1:01:34.160 And then I lost the Beach Boys, and I lost 1:01:34.200 --> 1:01:39.400 Harry and and the uh in nineteen one. You know, um, 1:01:40.200 --> 1:01:44.320 I was I didn't know if I could um sustain 1:01:44.400 --> 1:01:47.280 an agency sustain a business. Elizabeth was now out of 1:01:47.280 --> 1:01:51.280 the picture, and so, uh probably out of fear of 1:01:51.320 --> 1:01:54.320 not being able to sustain myself, I went and worked 1:01:54.320 --> 1:01:57.320 at William Mars five years. Okay. It was Billy cool 1:01:57.360 --> 1:02:01.800 with that. Yeah, okay, So did you approach them or 1:02:01.840 --> 1:02:07.200 were they to approach you? Uh, I don't remember how 1:02:07.200 --> 1:02:11.960 their relationship worked out. I was available. I had have 1:02:11.960 --> 1:02:16.360 been approached by others before. But uh I remember though, 1:02:16.520 --> 1:02:19.080 Um I was at William Morris for about three weeks 1:02:19.120 --> 1:02:21.640 and I had a body tremble. It was like it 1:02:21.800 --> 1:02:25.560 was like it was just it was just the wrong fit. 1:02:26.280 --> 1:02:29.520 But it was very educational. For five years, I understand 1:02:29.600 --> 1:02:32.880 learned a lot as far as how it worked, and 1:02:33.200 --> 1:02:36.240 and you know, a lot of the bullshit. And you know, 1:02:36.240 --> 1:02:39.800 I met some very wonderful people, and people became stars 1:02:39.840 --> 1:02:43.000 in their fields, and and uh I and I learned 1:02:43.000 --> 1:02:45.880 a lot of the bullshit that existed there, and and 1:02:45.880 --> 1:02:49.240 and the bureaucracy and and and and and how these 1:02:49.280 --> 1:02:51.760 guys were. I remember one time when I was gone 1:02:51.800 --> 1:02:55.160 and I ran into one of the senior agents on 1:02:55.200 --> 1:02:58.320 a plane and he's introduced, introducing me as an alumni. 1:02:58.680 --> 1:03:02.600 And I'm going alumni. I fucking quit, you know, but uh, 1:03:02.680 --> 1:03:05.400 you know, but it was a good experience and the 1:03:05.440 --> 1:03:08.320 fact that it it just it exposed me to a 1:03:08.360 --> 1:03:13.760 world that uh, I really didn't know about. Okay, And 1:03:13.880 --> 1:03:18.680 did you make good money? Well not really. I remember 1:03:18.720 --> 1:03:20.640 one year I was making about a hundred and fifty 1:03:20.640 --> 1:03:23.760 thousand dollars, like win a million dollars in commission, I 1:03:23.760 --> 1:03:26.160 mean literally a million dollars. Was in the early eighties, 1:03:26.600 --> 1:03:30.480 and I got a dollar raise. And I remember one 1:03:30.520 --> 1:03:33.400 of the other agents because at the time, the agents 1:03:33.440 --> 1:03:36.919 that were in the music age, so william Mars, most 1:03:36.920 --> 1:03:39.040 of them didn't have any real clients. It was really 1:03:39.040 --> 1:03:42.240 a hotchpotch of people, and their their game was to 1:03:42.280 --> 1:03:46.960 beat the management. You know, let's not they weren't um, 1:03:47.280 --> 1:03:49.040 they weren't trying to get an act. They were trying 1:03:49.040 --> 1:03:51.000 to fool the management to keep their jobs. And one 1:03:51.040 --> 1:03:53.320 guy says to me, hey man, we should just be 1:03:53.400 --> 1:03:56.880 happy we have jobs, and I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait. 1:03:56.920 --> 1:03:59.760 You know, but that with that that day, I knew 1:03:59.840 --> 1:04:02.200 I was done. I was out of william Mars. This 1:04:02.280 --> 1:04:04.480 is never gonna work for me, you know, they were 1:04:04.560 --> 1:04:07.120 It was just uh, they didn't take care of the 1:04:07.120 --> 1:04:11.000 people at that time that wasn't there their mantra. So 1:04:11.200 --> 1:04:20.520 I left. Okay, how long did you contemplate leaving and 1:04:20.560 --> 1:04:24.480 what you do for startup funds for your new agency. Well, 1:04:24.600 --> 1:04:29.400 Roddy Damesfield, who was my client, said to me, I 1:04:29.400 --> 1:04:31.840 mean he had a real prejudice. He felt that the 1:04:31.920 --> 1:04:36.160 senior agents, William Mars, just to abuse him. He was 1:04:36.200 --> 1:04:39.160 just not a fan of theirs, and he hated paying 1:04:39.160 --> 1:04:42.400 meat and percent and going to them. So he told 1:04:42.440 --> 1:04:44.880 me one day, if you don't get out of here, 1:04:44.920 --> 1:04:48.960 I'm leaving. I'm not I'm not uh. And I had 1:04:49.000 --> 1:04:52.760 a bunch of different circumstances come around and and obviously 1:04:52.800 --> 1:04:54.880 I just said how they didn't really take care of you. 1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:58.920 So I I was gonna leave. And it took me 1:04:58.960 --> 1:05:01.200 about a year. You're an half. I was waiting on. 1:05:01.560 --> 1:05:05.000 I had pursued some another client that I was trying 1:05:05.040 --> 1:05:07.440 to get that ended up not working out though I 1:05:07.480 --> 1:05:09.440 was promised the client, but it didn't work out. And 1:05:09.440 --> 1:05:12.640 I finally woke up and said, hey, I'm out of 1:05:12.680 --> 1:05:14.680 my mind. I should be out of here. And Rodney 1:05:15.000 --> 1:05:17.440 was the one who advanced me forty three thousand dollars 1:05:17.680 --> 1:05:22.120 to start my own business. Hmm. And believe me, he 1:05:22.200 --> 1:05:24.840 told me for many years how I owed him, but 1:05:25.120 --> 1:05:29.560 he but he did advance me forty three thousand dollars. 1:05:29.640 --> 1:05:34.200 And I remember Adam Cornfeld has worked me for over 1:05:34.280 --> 1:05:36.840 fourty years. We hopped out, he hopped We hopped out 1:05:36.840 --> 1:05:41.120 of William Morris and opened up on office across the street. 1:05:41.200 --> 1:05:45.920 And our clients who are Rodney, Billy, Ted Nugent. Um, 1:05:45.960 --> 1:05:48.720 I think John Caffey and the Beaver Brown Band and 1:05:48.760 --> 1:05:51.680 the Beach Boys, and uh, we had a little bit 1:05:51.720 --> 1:05:54.640 of we had a little bit of a game going. Okay, 1:05:54.680 --> 1:05:58.160 just for a second. What was Rodney really like? And 1:05:58.240 --> 1:06:00.360 this was when he really started to make get and 1:06:00.400 --> 1:06:03.320 how to what degree were you involved in that? Now? 1:06:03.400 --> 1:06:06.960 I was very close to Rodney. Um. I was thirty 1:06:06.960 --> 1:06:09.000 one when I thought of representing Rodney, and I think 1:06:09.000 --> 1:06:12.240 he was fifty nine. Rodney was a young man's comic. 1:06:12.320 --> 1:06:14.640 I mean, he can really better to me than he 1:06:14.680 --> 1:06:17.600 could to contemporary. We were more on the same page. 1:06:18.080 --> 1:06:21.480 And he his DNA was he it was all comedy. 1:06:21.840 --> 1:06:25.320 He was just uh. I mean he first of all, 1:06:25.360 --> 1:06:28.439 nobody made me laugh like he did. I mean when 1:06:28.440 --> 1:06:31.160 you're hanging with somebody, and he was fast and things 1:06:31.240 --> 1:06:34.520 he would see you, he was It was just extraordinary. 1:06:34.560 --> 1:06:37.760 He was just absolutely brilliant. But he also taught me 1:06:38.240 --> 1:06:43.640 very clearly had to be rich, famous and miserable, and um, 1:06:43.680 --> 1:06:45.920 you know, Rodney was also very depressed. Came from a 1:06:46.000 --> 1:06:49.000 very difficult background with his mom and stuff. But he 1:06:49.080 --> 1:06:52.360 was a brilliant comedy a comedian. He introduced me to 1:06:52.400 --> 1:06:55.760 the world of comedy. He I would travel with him 1:06:56.480 --> 1:07:00.920 and um, you know many times and uh he you know, 1:07:01.000 --> 1:07:03.640 he made good money. He was always you know, he's 1:07:04.480 --> 1:07:07.960 well played casinos and I had a lot of great, 1:07:08.000 --> 1:07:11.120 wonderful experiences Rodney. I was with Rodney till for twenty 1:07:11.160 --> 1:07:14.040 three years until he passed. And as a matter of fact, 1:07:14.120 --> 1:07:18.160 I always remember when I went to his funeral. Um, 1:07:18.200 --> 1:07:20.120 I probably hadn't cried in the years, and I saw 1:07:20.280 --> 1:07:25.840 Rodney's daughter, Melody, and she we hugged and I started 1:07:25.880 --> 1:07:30.920 to cry, and she said, he trusted you. And um. 1:07:30.960 --> 1:07:33.120 But I think to him, and I quote him many 1:07:33.160 --> 1:07:35.520 times in my life. I think of lines that he said, 1:07:35.560 --> 1:07:37.919 you know, uh one am I sweating for I got 1:07:37.960 --> 1:07:40.000 the job? I think of that that all the time. 1:07:40.120 --> 1:07:42.560 How about how I approached life because a lot of 1:07:42.600 --> 1:07:46.080 times I gotta remember I I got the job, I 1:07:46.120 --> 1:07:49.000 already won, and um, I don't have to function with 1:07:49.080 --> 1:07:52.520 that fear and uh that might go into a situation. 1:07:52.680 --> 1:07:56.160 So to what degree were you involved in his film career? 1:07:57.840 --> 1:08:02.320 Very little? I mean actually the woman he had a manager, 1:08:02.400 --> 1:08:06.760 a Stell Endlow, who actually produced and oversaw the easy 1:08:06.800 --> 1:08:10.000 of the Back to School, which was his biggest success. 1:08:10.600 --> 1:08:14.880 And uh, she passed, she died of cancel and once 1:08:15.080 --> 1:08:19.879 she passed, I felt that the film career went astray. 1:08:20.240 --> 1:08:23.680 Rodney became as the manager of Rodby and you know 1:08:23.920 --> 1:08:27.519 that had limited success, but he was a phenomena, of course, 1:08:27.560 --> 1:08:29.599 and he was he really made his bones on late 1:08:29.720 --> 1:08:33.280 night TV. To what degree with the manager handle that? 1:08:34.479 --> 1:08:36.800 It was? Really it was once a Stell passed, it 1:08:36.880 --> 1:08:39.960 really wasn't a manager. I mean, uh, I remember when 1:08:40.040 --> 1:08:42.000 Jay Leno, he told me Jay Leno he had an 1:08:42.040 --> 1:08:44.920 open invitation. He could go up on Jay anytime he wanted. 1:08:45.320 --> 1:08:48.760 He really, Uh, he was a godfather. He was a 1:08:48.800 --> 1:08:50.640 golf he was and he was the godfather of the 1:08:50.680 --> 1:08:53.840 young comic. I mean he you know, I Andrew Dice 1:08:53.960 --> 1:08:57.400 Clay who we still still worked with and loved Ice 1:08:57.880 --> 1:09:01.560 and I got him from Rodney and you know, um 1:09:01.600 --> 1:09:04.840 he all of these whether it was Kennethon Seinfeld and 1:09:04.960 --> 1:09:07.879 Rosanne Barr and it was just a WHOSU those hbos 1:09:08.000 --> 1:09:13.080 specials were just and and he loved the the talent. 1:09:13.120 --> 1:09:16.240 They were like his children. Okay, see now you have 1:09:16.320 --> 1:09:20.240 your own agency and you're calling it what q b 1:09:20.400 --> 1:09:27.439 Q because quality before quantity because after my experience and William, 1:09:27.439 --> 1:09:29.880 I don't remember one time we had there was a 1:09:29.920 --> 1:09:33.479 meeting and there was an artist that the fair guy, 1:09:34.040 --> 1:09:37.800 the Fair department wanted the agency to represent. Nobody wanted 1:09:37.840 --> 1:09:41.240 to represent the guy, but we ended up representing him. 1:09:41.360 --> 1:09:43.760 And I said to myself, can you imagine if the 1:09:43.880 --> 1:09:47.519 artists only knew that nobody wanted him? But here he 1:09:47.600 --> 1:09:50.160 is the Fair agents is pushing him and that and 1:09:50.200 --> 1:09:54.240 I and so the philosophy of quality before quantity is, 1:09:54.520 --> 1:09:57.599 which is really a philosophy of mine anyway, who's just 1:09:57.640 --> 1:10:01.800 like um? So that so we were qb Q. That's 1:10:02.080 --> 1:10:04.920 that was how we started and what played out at 1:10:04.960 --> 1:10:11.479 qb Q q b Q UM actually and we started 1:10:11.520 --> 1:10:17.040 in eighties six and and and a eight was we 1:10:17.240 --> 1:10:21.040 just boomed. I mean, we started really making money. I 1:10:21.040 --> 1:10:24.519 mean we had the dirty Dancing to her, which was 1:10:24.600 --> 1:10:26.719 just huge. I mean we sold that eight radio city 1:10:26.800 --> 1:10:29.680 musicals with just an ad I mean so and that 1:10:29.720 --> 1:10:32.760 came from a client, Eric Carman. It ticked me off 1:10:32.800 --> 1:10:38.000 about that. And Debbie Gibson exploded in and and and 1:10:38.000 --> 1:10:42.080 and Billy obviously was a continued superstar. So we were 1:10:42.200 --> 1:10:45.719 just we were just rocking. We were just smoking and 1:10:45.800 --> 1:10:49.600 you know, um and and and that. You know that continued. 1:10:49.920 --> 1:10:53.960 Um So the agency was was basically very healthy in 1:10:54.000 --> 1:10:57.280 the in the early nineties. We got uh the Q 1:10:57.479 --> 1:11:01.080 Prime guys brought over there rocks that us so that 1:11:01.160 --> 1:11:07.080 became Metallica and def Leopard and you know and uh 1:11:07.720 --> 1:11:11.360 Tesler and and their roster. So that became a part 1:11:11.400 --> 1:11:15.680 of you know, and then um Alan Kovac, who had 1:11:15.720 --> 1:11:18.800 been a very close associate, he gave us. We were 1:11:19.120 --> 1:11:23.720 introduced to Motley Crewe and and and that. So you know, 1:11:23.800 --> 1:11:28.320 we just had established we we established a relationship with 1:11:28.439 --> 1:11:31.920 credibility of being very good at what we did. And 1:11:32.760 --> 1:11:35.000 there were a lot of you know, and and people 1:11:35.000 --> 1:11:37.719 were drawn to us, and we were hustled. We hustled 1:11:37.720 --> 1:11:41.080 people we we went out hustling and worked very hard 1:11:41.120 --> 1:11:46.120 to uh to get clients and and it was. And 1:11:46.120 --> 1:11:49.679 then then in the late nineties I sold the business 1:11:49.680 --> 1:11:54.120 to Bob Silliman. Okay, but he did end up buying 1:11:54.160 --> 1:11:56.040 all the other agencies. People thought he was going to 1:11:56.120 --> 1:11:58.040 roll up the age. What was going on there? Well, 1:11:58.080 --> 1:11:59.960 we were, we were going to do it. We did. 1:12:00.080 --> 1:12:04.639 We had five agencies under our umbrella. And then Bob 1:12:04.680 --> 1:12:09.200 sold the Clear Channel and uh he he said to 1:12:09.280 --> 1:12:11.920 me when he sold, you know we had five there 1:12:12.000 --> 1:12:14.800 was you know, he paid everybody's lawyers fees and you 1:12:14.840 --> 1:12:18.320 know that put in the time and energy. And two 1:12:18.400 --> 1:12:22.679 of the agencies, which was I, T. B and John Giddings, 1:12:23.080 --> 1:12:26.519 continued and made deals the Clear Channel, which became Live Nations, 1:12:26.560 --> 1:12:29.400 So they continued. The others didn't happen. But MAB paid 1:12:29.439 --> 1:12:33.680 the legal piece and and he took care of me. 1:12:33.800 --> 1:12:35.960 He gave me my business back, which I was only 1:12:35.960 --> 1:12:37.720 there with him for two and a half years, and 1:12:37.760 --> 1:12:40.639 he gave my business back and he paid me start 1:12:40.720 --> 1:12:46.040 from the beginning. Why did you make the deal? Well, 1:12:46.080 --> 1:12:47.760 it was at the time of the roll up. I 1:12:48.200 --> 1:12:52.920 just saw it as as an opportunity to besides make money. UM, 1:12:53.760 --> 1:12:56.439 I just sort of as uh. I liked what he 1:12:56.479 --> 1:12:59.880 was doing. I thought he was making smart buys. I 1:13:00.080 --> 1:13:03.160 mean at that time buying pace and sell a door 1:13:03.200 --> 1:13:06.880 and uh Delstner and coppolit I mean I thought he 1:13:06.920 --> 1:13:09.040 was he was he was, he was making good picks. 1:13:09.680 --> 1:13:11.320 So I wanted to be part of that team. I 1:13:11.360 --> 1:13:16.760 was interested in that. And I remember um meeting with 1:13:16.840 --> 1:13:20.880 Mitch later and um, you know, he says, you always 1:13:20.960 --> 1:13:23.439 make money, and then he introduced me and I had 1:13:23.439 --> 1:13:27.160 a meeting with Bob and Bob was talking. Then they 1:13:27.200 --> 1:13:31.639 have the meeting was Rodney jokes and uh, Bob made 1:13:31.640 --> 1:13:36.679 me an offer and I became part of his team. Okay, 1:13:36.760 --> 1:13:39.479 so it ends with the sailor you get your business back. 1:13:41.360 --> 1:13:46.360 What goes on there. Well, my experience was so good 1:13:46.720 --> 1:13:51.360 that I was open to be acquired again. And actually 1:13:51.360 --> 1:13:55.800 it did happen. Uh several years later, when um I 1:13:55.880 --> 1:13:59.599 made a deal with Van burkele my son Jared came 1:13:59.640 --> 1:14:01.960 into the business and he said, hey, if I'm going 1:14:02.000 --> 1:14:04.639 to come in, I want to grow the business and 1:14:04.760 --> 1:14:07.880 we needed to find a rabling and uh so we 1:14:08.000 --> 1:14:10.800 spent you know, Jack Kennedy. As a matter we'd have 1:14:10.880 --> 1:14:14.800 financial people I would be saying, well, where did we 1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:17.280 leave off with this one? What's the status of this one? 1:14:17.360 --> 1:14:20.160 But we started to realize that we needed somebody who 1:14:20.200 --> 1:14:23.479 understood or had a sense of the entertainment space. Not 1:14:23.680 --> 1:14:27.320 somebody and not just people who are financial people, but 1:14:27.400 --> 1:14:31.320 people who at that time could certainly understand, uh, the 1:14:31.479 --> 1:14:35.040 entertainment space. And we identified Ron Barkel, who had interest 1:14:35.160 --> 1:14:38.280 in that space and investment in that space. And we 1:14:38.320 --> 1:14:42.439 took some meetings and our lawyer knew somebody connected to 1:14:42.479 --> 1:14:45.439 Wrong and you know, and and ten years ago we 1:14:45.479 --> 1:14:49.400 made a deal with Wrong. And was he an eager 1:14:49.479 --> 1:14:52.960 buyer or you had to sell it to him? I 1:14:53.000 --> 1:14:55.519 think it was mutual. I think the I think timing 1:14:55.600 --> 1:14:58.840 is everything. I think they were open to expand in 1:14:58.880 --> 1:15:03.160 their entertainment game. And uh, and I had such a 1:15:03.160 --> 1:15:08.360 great experience with Bob Sulliman, you know that, why wouldn't 1:15:08.400 --> 1:15:16.800 I want to do this again? Right? So, ultimately, you know, 1:15:17.080 --> 1:15:21.080 brokeled in by other agencies. What's going on there? Well, 1:15:21.360 --> 1:15:24.000 we've we've done two deals since then, you know, we've 1:15:24.000 --> 1:15:26.320 done several deals. We brought in Marshall Alassa, who is 1:15:26.360 --> 1:15:30.600 a superstar agent and as a major roster, and we 1:15:30.720 --> 1:15:33.320 brought in K two from England with John Jackson or 1:15:33.360 --> 1:15:37.040 his Metallica and Iron Maiden worldwide. And then we just 1:15:37.120 --> 1:15:40.360 made a deal in association with x Ray who represents 1:15:40.360 --> 1:15:45.200 Coldplay and Guerrillas and um, M and M. So we've 1:15:45.240 --> 1:15:49.840 made some some major in roads over the uh you know, UM, 1:15:49.880 --> 1:15:52.920 you know, we're not we're not trying to be UM 1:15:53.880 --> 1:15:56.519 you know, we we're not trying to be CIA, but 1:15:56.640 --> 1:15:59.920 we've made some uh I think some very calculated, small 1:16:00.080 --> 1:16:02.640 intelligent moves or some great people to who are you 1:16:02.680 --> 1:16:08.679 trying to be? We're trying to be prepared. I mean, 1:16:09.040 --> 1:16:13.400 you know, I I one time, like I believe ultimately 1:16:14.040 --> 1:16:18.360 that um, you know, if there was ever you know, 1:16:18.960 --> 1:16:22.120 just like in the philosophy of my would we started 1:16:22.160 --> 1:16:25.799 this interview out and we talked about the a artists 1:16:26.479 --> 1:16:32.960 being compromised in the agency world because you know, the 1:16:32.960 --> 1:16:35.440 the artist didn't want to pay for the same services 1:16:35.520 --> 1:16:40.040 or similar services twice. And I felt that the only 1:16:40.160 --> 1:16:43.040 way that if that if you're if you're going to 1:16:43.120 --> 1:16:45.479 be threatened or your business is gonna be threatened, then 1:16:45.560 --> 1:16:48.840 you may have to get into the promotion business and 1:16:49.280 --> 1:16:53.200 why should I lose an artist to somebody that I've 1:16:53.240 --> 1:16:55.240 developed and have a relationship with it. I have a 1:16:55.240 --> 1:16:58.520 foresight because I just don't have the money to go compete. 1:16:59.160 --> 1:17:03.439 So um by now having a lot of you know, 1:17:03.640 --> 1:17:09.080 agents that have relationships with their artists that um you 1:17:09.120 --> 1:17:11.960 know that kind of at the same time, as much 1:17:12.000 --> 1:17:15.600 as we're building an agency business, we're building you know, 1:17:16.000 --> 1:17:18.600 or we have the accessibility if we need it to 1:17:18.680 --> 1:17:21.160 be in that space. We can be in that space. 1:17:22.040 --> 1:17:24.040 We can play in that space if we have there 1:17:24.080 --> 1:17:26.759 as long as we have the resources. It's not necessarily 1:17:26.760 --> 1:17:29.679 where I'm going, but it's a possibility. Okay, So you're 1:17:29.720 --> 1:17:32.880 saying theoretically, if you want to go into from motion business, 1:17:33.360 --> 1:17:38.320 Ron has deep enough pockets to support you. Ron can 1:17:38.760 --> 1:17:41.360 and you know, if Ron shows that that that's you know, 1:17:41.560 --> 1:17:44.960 it's just hey, Ron's available for an opportunity. There's some 1:17:45.000 --> 1:17:49.479 great opportunities now, you know, as as as long as 1:17:49.520 --> 1:17:52.280 it works out with others, we don't need that. But 1:17:52.600 --> 1:17:55.960 if it didn't and our business was threatened, then I 1:17:56.000 --> 1:17:58.160 think we got to step up to the plate. And 1:17:58.240 --> 1:18:00.120 I think you go, you know, and I think to 1:18:00.200 --> 1:18:05.080 be aligned with others and hey, and and if if 1:18:05.120 --> 1:18:09.320 I can give my arts the same opportunities as somebody else, 1:18:09.680 --> 1:18:11.439 why wouldn't you want to stay with me who you 1:18:11.479 --> 1:18:18.240 already know? So you're saying there's room for more competitors 1:18:18.240 --> 1:18:21.439 beyond as a major scale, beyond a g and live 1:18:21.520 --> 1:18:25.120 nation if necessary, if the agent is now now now 1:18:25.120 --> 1:18:27.280 as long if the agents don't want to promote, the 1:18:27.320 --> 1:18:31.519 agencies don't want to promote, well that's their that's their choice. 1:18:31.520 --> 1:18:35.439 But I think that's the only way to eventually um 1:18:35.479 --> 1:18:40.200 neutralize the game. I mean, otherwise, you know, you're always 1:18:40.200 --> 1:18:43.160 gonna be the tail wagging the dog. But you know 1:18:43.600 --> 1:18:45.639 what would be the trigger to go down that road? 1:18:47.479 --> 1:18:52.080 Keep taking my ax, keep you know, if I can't compete, 1:18:52.360 --> 1:18:55.160 if I can't compete with you, and I'm gonna, you know, 1:18:55.280 --> 1:18:59.240 become somebody that was making you know, seven figures a 1:18:59.320 --> 1:19:03.240 year and beduce to uh, you know, to uh you know, 1:19:03.360 --> 1:19:06.200 to you know, to a small sum of money. You're 1:19:06.280 --> 1:19:08.960 you're you're now costing me my income, You're taking my 1:19:09.040 --> 1:19:12.000 living away. So how how am I going to protect myself? 1:19:12.200 --> 1:19:15.519 I gotta compete with you? And why do I want 1:19:15.560 --> 1:19:19.280 to give up these primary relationships? Because you have the 1:19:19.320 --> 1:19:23.280 resources that I don't have. And yeah, maybe agencies don't 1:19:23.280 --> 1:19:25.840 want to take risks, and I understand that, but that's 1:19:25.880 --> 1:19:29.479 the game you're in. And how did you convince Marsha 1:19:29.520 --> 1:19:33.559 to come with you? I think that I think what 1:19:33.880 --> 1:19:38.160 we offered is the I think Marsha can be an 1:19:38.160 --> 1:19:43.639 independent within an organization. She's she's Marsha doing her thing, 1:19:44.400 --> 1:19:47.599 but she also has us, and she has a bigger 1:19:47.600 --> 1:19:50.800 picture and and and other players when she wants to, 1:19:51.600 --> 1:19:53.840 and she doesn't have to have us when she does. 1:19:54.120 --> 1:19:58.360 She's you know, it's like it's she's she's an independent 1:19:58.880 --> 1:20:01.400 and and and a paul of a bigger picture. So 1:20:01.479 --> 1:20:04.840 she can draw from our resources other experiences with other 1:20:05.000 --> 1:20:07.639 artists are doing. But she's able to run her own business. 1:20:08.240 --> 1:20:11.000 So your CEO, you essentially never tell her how to 1:20:11.080 --> 1:20:14.240 run her business. Now, I don't tell her. I share 1:20:14.320 --> 1:20:16.280 with her. I talked to her all the time, we 1:20:16.360 --> 1:20:19.840 share information. She'll bounce things off of me. I'll bounce 1:20:19.920 --> 1:20:24.400 things off of her. Where where friends? Where you? And 1:20:24.479 --> 1:20:27.600 But I don't tell her what to do? Okay? And 1:20:27.600 --> 1:20:31.240 with the English company, what's the history there? Same thing? 1:20:31.400 --> 1:20:34.599 I mean, it's like I think our philosophy is we 1:20:34.680 --> 1:20:38.200 want to give everybody. We want to encourage the entrepreneurs 1:20:38.200 --> 1:20:40.800 and the star ages to be star agents. We're just 1:20:41.000 --> 1:20:44.920 we're just giving you an umbrella with certain resources that 1:20:45.320 --> 1:20:49.240 you can you can extract from. So we really encourage 1:20:49.439 --> 1:20:52.280 I try to avoid all the politics. I mean, listen, 1:20:52.400 --> 1:20:54.840 it's not my business. But some of these agencies, you'd 1:20:54.880 --> 1:20:57.760 be surprised em many unhappy people. There are people who 1:20:57.800 --> 1:21:02.439 are miserable politically. It's a s and it's not out there, 1:21:02.479 --> 1:21:04.400 and there's a lot of honesty about that that's not 1:21:04.479 --> 1:21:06.759 out there. But there's a lot of very unhappy people 1:21:07.280 --> 1:21:09.840 and a lot of people stay there at a fear 1:21:10.040 --> 1:21:13.599 comfort all that kind of stuff. But I'm I try 1:21:13.640 --> 1:21:16.080 to be if you're a star, I try to we 1:21:16.160 --> 1:21:19.800 try to encourage your independence. We try to encourage, you know, 1:21:20.240 --> 1:21:24.320 the best of both worlds, security and independence at the 1:21:24.360 --> 1:21:28.320 same time. Well, you know, it used to be that, 1:21:29.000 --> 1:21:34.240 especially in the seventies, music was huge income for these 1:21:34.320 --> 1:21:39.160 major agencies. Now the agencies are really like you know 1:21:39.280 --> 1:21:42.600 in sports, the UFC, I mean, what's going through the 1:21:42.640 --> 1:21:45.559 head of these agents there? Music agents are getting no respect. 1:21:47.280 --> 1:21:50.960 Well not in my world, you know, I mean, you know, 1:21:51.040 --> 1:21:55.599 and God bless, you know the entrepreneurship and um and 1:21:55.840 --> 1:21:58.800 you know, and you know and how they've diversed and 1:21:59.320 --> 1:22:03.679 you know, it's it's you know, I'm I admire what 1:22:03.840 --> 1:22:07.920 many many people have done. However, um, that's not where 1:22:07.960 --> 1:22:10.160 i am. I'm not. I'm not some of these people. 1:22:10.240 --> 1:22:13.880 I'm a music business. I'm to Sarrio, i am not 1:22:14.040 --> 1:22:16.280 in the sports business. I'm a sports fan. I'm not 1:22:16.360 --> 1:22:18.680 in the sports business. I'm not you know, we have 1:22:19.080 --> 1:22:21.920 we have alignments with people. We have a sponsorship group 1:22:21.920 --> 1:22:25.439 that we that we have an alignment with. But I'm 1:22:25.479 --> 1:22:28.840 you know, I admire and God bless, but I'm not 1:22:28.880 --> 1:22:31.160 in the shoe business. I'm in the music business. I 1:22:31.160 --> 1:22:33.080 have a lane, I have a niche, I have a 1:22:33.120 --> 1:22:36.720 way of what I know and what I'm an expert in. 1:22:36.760 --> 1:22:39.160 I'm not a you know, I'm not a jack of 1:22:39.200 --> 1:22:43.760 all trades. And the way you tell your story is 1:22:43.760 --> 1:22:47.040 a little different from other agents. Other te agents tell 1:22:47.080 --> 1:22:49.760 the story although they were going out six nights a 1:22:49.800 --> 1:22:54.160 week networking looking for talent, did we not hear that 1:22:54.280 --> 1:22:56.080 or that you didn't just didn't do it that way? 1:22:57.600 --> 1:23:00.080 I did it that way. I mean Hey, I I 1:23:00.200 --> 1:23:02.400 go to l A, and I go to Howard Coftins, 1:23:02.400 --> 1:23:04.920 and I visit people I was chasing all the time. 1:23:05.400 --> 1:23:10.800 I never have considered myself, uh a great signer, though 1:23:10.880 --> 1:23:14.599 we we ended up having, you know, a very good roster. 1:23:15.160 --> 1:23:18.040 But I, you know, I would be out there. I mean, 1:23:18.760 --> 1:23:22.679 but there's different ways of being out there, and and 1:23:23.000 --> 1:23:25.400 you know, and that evolves and and then you grow 1:23:25.520 --> 1:23:27.800 your business. And we've had a lot of people who 1:23:27.800 --> 1:23:30.240 have been with us for a long time and they'd 1:23:30.240 --> 1:23:33.479 be at on the street and and and sometimes you party. 1:23:33.520 --> 1:23:35.400 You're really you know, you have a relationship with one 1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:38.000 manager and he signs bands and he loves your work, 1:23:38.160 --> 1:23:40.519 and all of a sudden you're representing more bands from 1:23:40.520 --> 1:23:45.799 their roster. So there's just many ways to obtain a roster. 1:23:46.040 --> 1:23:48.960 And uh, hey, there are some some agencies that's hire 1:23:49.000 --> 1:23:52.120 fifty agents and see what sticks to the wall. I mean, 1:23:52.160 --> 1:23:54.519 we haven't been that kind of That's not been our 1:23:54.920 --> 1:24:00.240 motus operendum, but hey, there are other I would like 1:24:00.400 --> 1:24:02.439 to be in the country business. Now, am I personally 1:24:02.479 --> 1:24:05.400 gonna be in the country business. Not really, But if 1:24:05.400 --> 1:24:08.559 I can find and and and the superstar agent, that 1:24:08.640 --> 1:24:12.679 would seek what we offer, um, and you know that 1:24:12.680 --> 1:24:13.960 that would be the way I'd want to be in 1:24:13.960 --> 1:24:16.760 the country business. I wouldn't necessarily myself stop going door 1:24:16.840 --> 1:24:19.520 to door, but I need somebody else who's a superstar, 1:24:19.920 --> 1:24:24.120 who has who can go beyond the big agency or 1:24:24.320 --> 1:24:28.040 feel that you know, would would have the you know 1:24:28.600 --> 1:24:31.560 kind of I guess, the courage, the entrepreneurship and the 1:24:31.960 --> 1:24:34.439 spirit to uh to make a move. I mean, there 1:24:34.439 --> 1:24:38.000 aren't very many independence out there anymore. I think everybody's 1:24:38.000 --> 1:24:41.200 looking for safety net. So how many people work for 1:24:41.240 --> 1:24:44.160 you in New York twenty two twenty two? And how 1:24:44.160 --> 1:24:48.920 many your agents? And okay, now you're only one person, 1:24:49.640 --> 1:24:52.040 So how much can you handle? And if I sign 1:24:52.120 --> 1:24:54.160 with you, are you doing the work or somebody else 1:24:54.200 --> 1:24:59.200 doing the work? Um? Both? I mean sometimes sometimes I'm 1:24:59.240 --> 1:25:02.240 the parent. Sometimes I al, we signed the band, why 1:25:02.280 --> 1:25:07.400 don't we the boy band, which so I believe is 1:25:07.479 --> 1:25:10.679 gonna be you know, superstar band. I'm right in there. 1:25:10.880 --> 1:25:13.360 We've resenting worldwide. I am right in there. I'm there 1:25:13.400 --> 1:25:17.680 with my my son Jared and with Adam Quintfeld, and 1:25:17.920 --> 1:25:21.160 I'm I'm right in there doing the work. I mean, 1:25:21.240 --> 1:25:23.719 but again, it takes the village, and I have different 1:25:23.760 --> 1:25:29.680 relationships within different networks and um and uh so, but 1:25:29.920 --> 1:25:34.360 uh yeah, I you know, sometimes I'm the parent sometimes 1:25:34.400 --> 1:25:37.680 but I delegate. Well I'm a good delegator, but I 1:25:37.760 --> 1:25:43.840 also melodically on and I oversee. Okay, what's your personal future? 1:25:43.880 --> 1:25:46.200 You're gonna do this till you drop? Well, listen, I 1:25:46.280 --> 1:25:51.120 got you know, we have the last year we were 1:25:51.160 --> 1:25:54.160 supposed to have the Death Weap in Motley Cruz Poison 1:25:54.240 --> 1:25:56.960 Stadium Tour, which was probably the biggest tour in America 1:25:57.040 --> 1:26:00.280 last year and I was just hugely successful. And now 1:26:00.320 --> 1:26:03.920 our next years it's going to be the third time 1:26:04.120 --> 1:26:06.760 that this thing is gonna be scheduled. So here we 1:26:06.840 --> 1:26:10.480 are and Billy Joel doing stadiums and Metallica doing stadiums. 1:26:10.920 --> 1:26:14.080 I mean, why would I want to let go of this? 1:26:14.080 --> 1:26:17.280 This is a blast? I mean, to me, what an 1:26:17.280 --> 1:26:20.280 August and it is to walk into a stadium of 1:26:20.400 --> 1:26:25.280 forty people and your artist is playing and I'm having 1:26:25.320 --> 1:26:28.240 a blast. So why would I want to You know, 1:26:28.280 --> 1:26:29.599 It's like if you said to me if I could 1:26:29.600 --> 1:26:32.360 still pitch baseball and win twenty games a year, and 1:26:32.840 --> 1:26:35.840 then he said to me, hey, you when you're gonna 1:26:35.840 --> 1:26:37.720 retired as long as I get to keep If I 1:26:37.720 --> 1:26:40.040 can still win twenty games, why would I'm having a blast. 1:26:40.560 --> 1:26:42.640 So I'm having a great time. If you told me 1:26:42.680 --> 1:26:45.160 I had a big bar, bands and and and what 1:26:45.320 --> 1:26:46.880 crawl my way, I don't know if I could do that, 1:26:47.240 --> 1:26:50.840 but I could do this. This is fun, okay? And 1:26:50.920 --> 1:26:53.559 you're doing this? Is this seven? Or you have any 1:26:53.560 --> 1:26:57.840 other interests I do? I have. I have another life. 1:26:58.640 --> 1:27:02.240 I you know, I I play golf. I still pitch softball. 1:27:02.640 --> 1:27:04.200 I don't know how long that will keep going on. 1:27:04.560 --> 1:27:07.200 I'm a big sports fan. UM. I have a lot 1:27:07.240 --> 1:27:10.439 of you know, some very significant other I'm very close 1:27:10.479 --> 1:27:12.920 to my family, my daughter and my son and my grandson, 1:27:13.000 --> 1:27:17.600 and and and some very close family. And I have 1:27:17.720 --> 1:27:20.240 some very very close friends that have nothing to do 1:27:20.320 --> 1:27:23.000 with the business. I don't know. The best friends is 1:27:23.120 --> 1:27:26.800 a shrink and uh sometimes I'll sit there with him 1:27:26.920 --> 1:27:30.000 and I can talk to him and and get a 1:27:30.000 --> 1:27:34.839 whole different perspective of of the world psychologically or what 1:27:34.560 --> 1:27:37.040 what what people are thinking in a way I may 1:27:37.080 --> 1:27:41.559 not have seen something and UH find it, um, you know, 1:27:42.000 --> 1:27:45.799 UH find it very intriguing. So I have a network 1:27:45.840 --> 1:27:49.040 of which most people really don't know of people that 1:27:49.439 --> 1:27:53.000 just have nothing to do with my daily world. Have 1:27:53.160 --> 1:27:57.400 you ever been in therapy? Yes, As a matter of fact, 1:27:57.640 --> 1:28:03.000 my therapist, my my buddy more um who I drove 1:28:03.080 --> 1:28:05.519 with him from New York when he went to school 1:28:05.520 --> 1:28:11.280 of psychology in San Diego and he um and and 1:28:11.280 --> 1:28:13.840 and I watched Mawkie had to go through analysis and 1:28:13.920 --> 1:28:17.400 all of this too, um, you know, to to become 1:28:17.439 --> 1:28:20.720 a doctor. And I watched him go through this whole process. 1:28:21.120 --> 1:28:23.519 But he and he was getting so happy. It was 1:28:23.560 --> 1:28:26.520 like he was really working himself out and really understanding 1:28:26.600 --> 1:28:29.120 himself in a very deep level. And I says, man, 1:28:29.200 --> 1:28:33.840 I love this ship. And and so my therapist for 1:28:34.040 --> 1:28:40.160 seven years was one of his teachers, and Stanley was 1:28:40.240 --> 1:28:43.920 just brilliant. I mean, Stanley wouldn't give you much, but Stanley, 1:28:43.960 --> 1:28:46.240 you know, definitely helped me sort out a lot of 1:28:47.200 --> 1:28:54.960 you know, parent understanding and parent issues. And it paved 1:28:54.960 --> 1:28:59.560 the way, um for for for me to have a 1:29:00.280 --> 1:29:04.920 happy life. I took a lot of lessons out of that. 1:29:05.040 --> 1:29:08.800 And um, I'm you know, wisdom is very important to 1:29:08.880 --> 1:29:12.559 be smart. You'd be smart about yourself being emotionally healthy, 1:29:12.840 --> 1:29:15.560 It's very very important to me and to surround you 1:29:15.720 --> 1:29:17.880 people that kind of support that. Like when I go 1:29:17.920 --> 1:29:20.960 out with my buddy, my string friend, Dr. Markminson, and 1:29:21.040 --> 1:29:24.960 we're talking. I mean sometimes I had the stimulation and 1:29:25.000 --> 1:29:27.200 the things we get into and he talks to me 1:29:27.240 --> 1:29:30.680 about his patients and it's just uh said, all that 1:29:30.760 --> 1:29:32.519 stuff to be to be worked out and to be 1:29:32.560 --> 1:29:37.120 emotionally happy is is a journey of life. And I, um, 1:29:37.160 --> 1:29:39.800 you know that's that That's the essence of who I am. 1:29:39.840 --> 1:29:42.400 I want to be happy. How many times you've been 1:29:42.439 --> 1:29:47.000 married once. I'm married to my lovely wife Bonnie for 1:29:47.000 --> 1:29:51.840 forty two years. We've had two children, and hey, we 1:29:51.920 --> 1:29:55.000 have a goal. We have great life. I'm very blessed. 1:29:55.360 --> 1:29:58.720 You're buried in the late seventies. You know, this is 1:29:58.760 --> 1:30:00.920 a business that to me, ends a lot of time. 1:30:01.560 --> 1:30:08.320 How is she with that? Bonnie Bonnie Bonnie vicariously plays 1:30:08.400 --> 1:30:10.519 this game. I mean she doesn't live. You know, she 1:30:10.560 --> 1:30:15.320 could sit here with me and she has um. You know, 1:30:15.479 --> 1:30:17.800 the beginning she traveled with me and went with me. 1:30:17.920 --> 1:30:20.040 Now she doesn't go so much, has been gone for 1:30:20.040 --> 1:30:23.080 for a while. And she said to me, Um, a 1:30:23.120 --> 1:30:26.040 bunch of years ago. Um, it was sent to me 1:30:26.040 --> 1:30:28.479 not too long ago. She said, Oh, I stopped going 1:30:28.479 --> 1:30:30.880 with you when you made it. I never knew that 1:30:31.000 --> 1:30:34.320 she realized that I had made it. She didn't. Uh. 1:30:34.400 --> 1:30:37.760 But Bonnie was a great asset. And first of all, 1:30:38.439 --> 1:30:42.600 I needed to marry a woman who wasn't depressed. Um. 1:30:42.680 --> 1:30:47.240 I remember one time taking a beautiful woman to see 1:30:47.439 --> 1:30:50.240 Eric Harman at the bottom Line, and this woman wanted 1:30:50.280 --> 1:30:53.080 to make it with Eric Harman, not me, and you know, 1:30:53.200 --> 1:30:56.439 and I I and but I needed I need somebody, 1:30:56.439 --> 1:31:00.840 you who who got the game but wasn't impressed, And 1:31:00.880 --> 1:31:03.240 that was Bonnie. And I could take Bonnie. She could 1:31:03.280 --> 1:31:05.960 work a room. The girls would always love her, would 1:31:05.960 --> 1:31:09.080 be Billie's band, and the wives and always liked her. 1:31:09.320 --> 1:31:12.519 She was bubbly, she was up, she was beautiful. And 1:31:13.080 --> 1:31:16.919 I remember when I went to William Morris and UH 1:31:17.160 --> 1:31:19.120 for the first meeting, and I'm sitting there with the 1:31:19.240 --> 1:31:21.920 chairman on the West Coast and he's sitting on her 1:31:22.320 --> 1:31:24.400 and he was sitting in the meeting and this guy's 1:31:24.439 --> 1:31:27.360 trying to get laid with my wife right there. But 1:31:27.600 --> 1:31:30.479 you know, but Bonnie was she was you know, she 1:31:30.600 --> 1:31:32.960 was just a great asset that way, and she understood 1:31:33.000 --> 1:31:35.040 the game. She still does now. She sits there and 1:31:35.080 --> 1:31:37.799 gives me her her opinions sometimes, you know, many times, 1:31:38.280 --> 1:31:41.920 you know, And so she's she it's almost like it's 1:31:41.960 --> 1:31:45.080 like I'm a board game to her. She just you know, 1:31:45.479 --> 1:31:48.600 comments and who she likes and who she doesn't and 1:31:48.640 --> 1:31:52.360 this is smart and whatever. But she's she's been uh, 1:31:52.439 --> 1:31:55.439 and I've only been lucky with Bonnie, you know. So 1:31:55.600 --> 1:31:59.040 it's been uh, it's it's been a great relationship when 1:31:59.080 --> 1:32:01.760 we've raised two beauty for children and my son who 1:32:01.800 --> 1:32:06.800 runs the company, and uh, my my my confidante and 1:32:06.280 --> 1:32:09.800 m and my daughter and and it's just it's just been, uh, 1:32:09.960 --> 1:32:13.919 I've been very blessed. And though I'm on the road, um, 1:32:15.000 --> 1:32:18.280 I mean, you know, I'm doing what I have to do. 1:32:18.439 --> 1:32:21.920 And but my base, my my home base has been 1:32:21.960 --> 1:32:24.800 a very stable factor of my life. How did you 1:32:24.840 --> 1:32:28.960 meet Bonnie? I met her promoting concerts at Suny New 1:32:29.040 --> 1:32:32.280 Pauls and we and we had a guy who was 1:32:32.320 --> 1:32:35.280 our box office. Our box office was you walk into 1:32:35.320 --> 1:32:38.360 the entrance of the of the main building and there 1:32:38.439 --> 1:32:41.200 was a booth and we were selling tickets for Poco's 1:32:41.280 --> 1:32:46.519 Apple Judy college and his girlfriend, Um was Bonnie's roommate. 1:32:46.720 --> 1:32:48.719 And one day we had a party after the Poco 1:32:48.800 --> 1:32:52.120 show and I saw her and I and I walked 1:32:52.120 --> 1:32:54.760 there with my buddy Corky, and it was like, oh, man, 1:32:55.520 --> 1:32:57.800 I you know. So we had a kind of a 1:32:57.880 --> 1:33:01.400 rocky courtship for a few years. But then um we 1:33:01.439 --> 1:33:06.240 got married in uh seventy nine, and you know, and 1:33:06.320 --> 1:33:08.839 I look back and I look back at the pictures 1:33:08.880 --> 1:33:11.880 of us, and I go, man, she what had a 1:33:11.920 --> 1:33:15.160 great choice I made? Was she hot? But she's still hot? 1:33:15.200 --> 1:33:18.160 But she was really hot. But anyway, that was important 1:33:18.200 --> 1:33:21.360 to me. She was intelligent, she was beautiful, and uh 1:33:21.479 --> 1:33:24.920 and and and she's a great mom. And that's really 1:33:24.920 --> 1:33:27.479 what she wanted to do. But when the first few 1:33:27.560 --> 1:33:29.960 years of our life, if she had a career, she 1:33:29.960 --> 1:33:32.720 would never have been with me. She you know, we 1:33:32.720 --> 1:33:36.960 would never have been together. Ifew we would have been apart. So, um, 1:33:37.000 --> 1:33:39.479 you know, there's good and bad sometimes when your wife 1:33:39.479 --> 1:33:42.680 works and doesn't work. But I kind of encouraged her 1:33:42.720 --> 1:33:46.240 to follow my path and she didn't, you know when 1:33:46.360 --> 1:33:48.599 so we had a lot of experience together. We we 1:33:48.600 --> 1:33:50.280 went to it, we went around the world. We went 1:33:50.280 --> 1:33:54.000 to Australia and Israel and Japan and took our son 1:33:54.160 --> 1:33:56.640 and you know, we we we did a lot of 1:33:56.680 --> 1:33:59.240 the road and eventually, I'll tell you one thing that 1:33:59.320 --> 1:34:01.920 was very funny. Bunny when she knew it wasn't for her. 1:34:02.000 --> 1:34:04.400 We were when I was representing the Beach Boys. I mean, 1:34:04.439 --> 1:34:07.400 we went to Buffalo, got there, checked into the hotel. 1:34:07.880 --> 1:34:10.720 Four hours later, do a day show, gone, Banny, come on, 1:34:10.760 --> 1:34:13.040 we're leaving that we have another show tonight in Toronto. 1:34:13.400 --> 1:34:19.280 She goes, this isn't for me, you know so, But 1:34:19.280 --> 1:34:22.040 but now she's, hey, that's very important. You have to 1:34:22.080 --> 1:34:25.320 have the uh, the right woman to handle the tembent 1:34:25.720 --> 1:34:28.640 and you gotta have a balance. I was always you know, 1:34:28.760 --> 1:34:33.000 sensitive to like I wasn't. I wasn't somebody. If I 1:34:33.080 --> 1:34:36.200 was a road manager, she could never have made the 1:34:36.920 --> 1:34:42.400 marriage work. But as a um, as an agent, I didn't. 1:34:42.400 --> 1:34:44.559 I didn't go on the road for three weeks. Maybe 1:34:44.560 --> 1:34:46.400 I went to Australia, I'd be gone for a week, 1:34:46.439 --> 1:34:49.920 but it didn't go. You know, um, you know that 1:34:50.200 --> 1:34:52.800 wasn't that and I didn't want that. I mean, there 1:34:52.800 --> 1:34:55.559 are a lot of people when they travel, they it's 1:34:55.600 --> 1:34:58.400 like there, it's the circus, it's goodbye to your family. 1:34:58.720 --> 1:35:00.960 I didn't really have that. I didn't. I didn't. I 1:35:01.000 --> 1:35:03.880 had that at times, but never goodbye to see it 1:35:03.920 --> 1:35:06.160 for two months. It wasn't like that. It wasn't what 1:35:06.200 --> 1:35:15.320 I wanted. You've been very successful. What have you done 1:35:15.360 --> 1:35:20.720 with all your money? Well, I I try to uh 1:35:21.040 --> 1:35:24.240 live comfortably, live live, you know, I try to. You know, 1:35:24.280 --> 1:35:27.080 I think the American dream would or whether America or 1:35:27.080 --> 1:35:28.880 the dream, is to be able to live off your 1:35:28.920 --> 1:35:33.920 money and you know, independent of making money. And I 1:35:33.960 --> 1:35:38.680 think I've accomplished that, and um so and uh, I 1:35:38.840 --> 1:35:44.080 just trying to really you know. Uh it's not like, um, 1:35:44.120 --> 1:35:45.600 I have so much money where I can buy a 1:35:45.600 --> 1:35:51.160 baseball team, which but um, you know, I I you know, 1:35:51.280 --> 1:35:54.120 it's uh most of my money. You know. It just 1:35:54.160 --> 1:35:57.439 helps me live my life, that's all. It's just me 1:35:57.439 --> 1:35:59.040 gives me a lot of freedom. I mean I make, 1:35:59.120 --> 1:36:01.040 you know, make good money now and I have a 1:36:01.040 --> 1:36:07.599 good lifestyle. But you know, uh nothing, just just preserving myself. 1:36:07.680 --> 1:36:10.720 We we we we've invested certain charities. I take care 1:36:10.720 --> 1:36:14.720 of certain people. I have a brother who's uh schizophrenics 1:36:14.720 --> 1:36:19.599 since um, you know, you know, you know that needs 1:36:19.640 --> 1:36:23.240 help and care. So a lot of my you know, 1:36:23.280 --> 1:36:25.759 some of my giving is taking care of my family 1:36:25.840 --> 1:36:31.320 and different different situations. And so okay, now you had 1:36:31.320 --> 1:36:34.559 a hard times at the beginning. There are people who 1:36:34.720 --> 1:36:37.960 are successful and it's all show. They don't count their pennies. 1:36:38.400 --> 1:36:41.240 On the other hand, there are people who never forget 1:36:41.240 --> 1:36:43.320 where they came from. Where are you at? Like if 1:36:43.320 --> 1:36:46.640 you say, okay, it's a gig, Yeah, I'm not flying commercial, 1:36:46.720 --> 1:36:50.520 let's higher a plane. Where are you on that continuum? 1:36:50.520 --> 1:36:54.240 As far as um, well, I would always choose to 1:36:54.280 --> 1:36:57.400 fly fly privately when I can, especially in COVID times. 1:36:58.080 --> 1:37:03.360 But um, you know, uh, you know it's um some 1:37:03.439 --> 1:37:07.160 of the things that I've obtained materially, I would never 1:37:07.240 --> 1:37:11.519 work for them. I would never, like, um, bust my 1:37:11.600 --> 1:37:15.400 ass to have a Bentley or if I if if 1:37:15.400 --> 1:37:18.880 it ended up happening by what I did, great, But 1:37:19.040 --> 1:37:22.360 it's not like I would work for a car or 1:37:22.640 --> 1:37:25.960 I never worked to make money and you know, like 1:37:26.000 --> 1:37:28.200 I'm going to try to be rich, I never thought 1:37:28.240 --> 1:37:30.840 of that. That was never my goal. My goal was 1:37:31.000 --> 1:37:34.360 this was Everything that happened to me was more of 1:37:34.400 --> 1:37:38.320 an outgrowth of me just doing my job well. And 1:37:38.360 --> 1:37:42.639 then I had to learn about money. But it wasn't 1:37:42.920 --> 1:37:47.720 um you know, I never was somebody who had, oh, 1:37:47.840 --> 1:37:49.960 this is my dream. My dream is to have this 1:37:50.040 --> 1:37:52.800 house or I own this place in Florida. And I 1:37:52.880 --> 1:37:55.360 never thought that way. It just it was just what 1:37:55.479 --> 1:37:57.880 came out of the success of doing my job well. 1:37:58.520 --> 1:38:01.639 It was never never thought about that. Let's assume you're 1:38:01.680 --> 1:38:07.519 on vacation. You on the phone, Yes, okay, I'm I'm 1:38:07.360 --> 1:38:12.640 I'm seven, I'm I'm neurotically on. This is the business 1:38:12.640 --> 1:38:15.400 that nobody needs you. I mean, it's a it's a 1:38:15.479 --> 1:38:19.600 luxury business. And if you're not available, you think I 1:38:19.640 --> 1:38:21.960 can sit there and get a phone call from a 1:38:22.040 --> 1:38:26.680 manager or um and and somebody, and and my responses, 1:38:26.720 --> 1:38:31.480 I'm sorry, I'm ondcation, you know. And And when I 1:38:31.520 --> 1:38:34.880 when I started, I swore that nobody would outwork me, 1:38:35.640 --> 1:38:39.800 not that I would never lose my job because of 1:38:39.840 --> 1:38:43.760 my effort. And that still maintains. And as long as 1:38:43.800 --> 1:38:47.519 I want this, which I still do. That's what it takes. 1:38:48.160 --> 1:38:50.479 This is what to me, this is what it takes 1:38:50.520 --> 1:38:52.599 to keep it together. I can get an email at 1:38:52.600 --> 1:38:56.479 ten thirty on a Saturday night with an author. You know, 1:38:56.640 --> 1:39:00.360 am I responding right away? No? But I'm all Emily, 1:39:00.439 --> 1:39:03.679 will you know, I'm I'm in the game, whatever it takes. 1:39:03.720 --> 1:39:08.480 That's you know. I I like my Sunday's. I love Christmas, 1:39:08.880 --> 1:39:11.360 I love you know, certain holidays where I don't think 1:39:11.360 --> 1:39:14.799 I'm gonna be bothered. But you know, there are sometimes 1:39:14.840 --> 1:39:16.599 there's more that goes on on a Sunday that goes 1:39:16.640 --> 1:39:19.679 on on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. There are certain people 1:39:19.760 --> 1:39:26.040 that you did are communicating differently. So, um, it's it's 1:39:26.040 --> 1:39:29.240 a lifestyle. It's just it's all you know. And in 1:39:29.320 --> 1:39:31.400 certain ways, a lot of my life and my family 1:39:31.439 --> 1:39:34.040 life has always revolved around my business and where does 1:39:34.120 --> 1:39:39.240 dad have to go? Where's Billy working with Steph Leopard? 1:39:39.760 --> 1:39:43.040 The younger generation in the agency business and a lot 1:39:43.040 --> 1:39:47.360 of businesses can do everything via email. Older generation is 1:39:47.400 --> 1:39:51.800 all phone, Where are you in that game? I am 1:39:51.880 --> 1:39:54.640 Probably I do. I do phone, but I do a 1:39:54.640 --> 1:39:57.040 lot of emails. A matter of fact, my wife would 1:39:57.320 --> 1:39:58.800 would sit there with me and I can be on 1:39:58.840 --> 1:40:00.439 the beach, and she said, oh yeah, not getting that 1:40:00.479 --> 1:40:03.679 many calls. I've been off the email, you know, So yes, 1:40:03.840 --> 1:40:06.160 I'm emailing, as a matter of fact, what I do 1:40:06.240 --> 1:40:10.519 every night, and sometimes it's it's painful because I don't 1:40:10.760 --> 1:40:13.120 go through all my emails. During the day I'm doing 1:40:13.479 --> 1:40:16.800 I'm calling, I'm I got. At night, I sit there, 1:40:16.840 --> 1:40:19.320 I go through my emails and I make notes. I'm 1:40:19.320 --> 1:40:21.800 always making notes so I'm prepared for the next day. 1:40:22.120 --> 1:40:24.840 I have things to move along, different processes that I'm 1:40:24.840 --> 1:40:28.400 working on, so I'm always writing down lists of what 1:40:28.520 --> 1:40:30.639 I need to do the next day. But a lot 1:40:30.680 --> 1:40:34.320 of email. Email is taken over a lot um. I 1:40:34.400 --> 1:40:36.479 speak on the phone a bit, but not nearly as 1:40:36.560 --> 1:40:38.920 much it used to be, obviously a little phone, but 1:40:39.040 --> 1:40:41.880 I do a lot of emailing. Okay, we were sitting 1:40:41.880 --> 1:40:45.080 in the House of Blues at a Newgen concert like 1:40:45.120 --> 1:40:47.920 a decade ago, and you were telling me two things. 1:40:48.200 --> 1:40:50.320 You were telling me you're gonna sell your company again, 1:40:51.040 --> 1:40:53.559 and you were also telling me you were gonna do 1:40:53.640 --> 1:40:58.680 the monthly gig at Madison Square Garden with Billy. So 1:40:59.680 --> 1:41:02.400 that is your idea, tell me that whole story where 1:41:02.400 --> 1:41:09.760 it is today. Well, the Billy the Billy thing is uh. Well, 1:41:09.760 --> 1:41:11.679 but first of all, I did sell my company again 1:41:11.800 --> 1:41:15.599 to Ron, and uh so that that that did happen, 1:41:16.080 --> 1:41:21.360 and uh, you know, and I'm very I'm very proud 1:41:21.360 --> 1:41:24.080 of that. And and I've had a great relationship with 1:41:24.160 --> 1:41:28.120 Want through these years and and and the great How 1:41:28.120 --> 1:41:30.559 often do you have contact with Ron? Sometimes I can 1:41:30.760 --> 1:41:34.280 we we email, you know, Sometimes I can email Ron 1:41:34.760 --> 1:41:38.519 several times, uh, you know in a week. Sometimes we 1:41:38.560 --> 1:41:40.800 can go by, you know, not speak for a month. 1:41:41.280 --> 1:41:44.720 But the interesting thing is is and Ron is very 1:41:44.760 --> 1:41:49.599 good at letting his entrepreneurs be their entrepreneurs. So most 1:41:49.640 --> 1:41:52.439 people don't even know I have ownership. I am still 1:41:52.479 --> 1:41:55.800 perceived very much as an independent agent and an agency 1:41:56.080 --> 1:42:01.160 and uh Ron, and but and that and that's perfect. 1:42:01.560 --> 1:42:05.160 I mean if there's many times, like I say, and 1:42:05.160 --> 1:42:09.080 that's and that's why I don't function much differently than 1:42:09.320 --> 1:42:12.080 I did prior to my relationship with Ron. And for 1:42:12.160 --> 1:42:14.720 that fact, even one was with Bob Sullivan. Because I'm 1:42:14.760 --> 1:42:17.240 in the kind of business you can own my money, 1:42:17.280 --> 1:42:19.840 but you can't own me because I don't own me. 1:42:20.000 --> 1:42:24.040 I my artists owned me. I my artists run my life, 1:42:24.520 --> 1:42:29.400 not me, so you can there's only you know, I 1:42:29.400 --> 1:42:32.360 if and if I don't represent my artists, well I 1:42:32.400 --> 1:42:35.280 will lose them, so you need me to represents. You 1:42:35.320 --> 1:42:38.800 can't control me because they do. And that's so to me. 1:42:38.960 --> 1:42:41.599 I I always there's no such thing as owning me. 1:42:42.040 --> 1:42:44.160 You you can own my money, but you can't own 1:42:44.200 --> 1:42:49.880 me because, um, it doesn't exist. I'm you know, the 1:42:50.000 --> 1:42:54.559 artists are who supplies us with our income? Okay, the 1:42:54.600 --> 1:43:02.400 Billy story So um Billy play. Uh closed Shaye Stadium 1:43:02.920 --> 1:43:07.960 in two thousand and eight, which was, um, maybe the 1:43:07.960 --> 1:43:10.840 greatest gig of that I've ever been involved with in 1:43:10.880 --> 1:43:13.840 my life. I remember right after the gig, Body and 1:43:13.880 --> 1:43:16.120 I flew down to Anguila. It took us a week 1:43:16.160 --> 1:43:18.320 to come down. It was like it was just this 1:43:18.479 --> 1:43:22.479 electric hi. I mean, um, you know it was whether 1:43:22.479 --> 1:43:25.479 it was Steven Tyler and Don Henley and John Mayer 1:43:25.760 --> 1:43:30.880 and um, it was just a Roger Daltrey. It was 1:43:30.920 --> 1:43:35.519 just who's who. And the funny thing about that is 1:43:35.600 --> 1:43:40.240 the Mets had um come to us and we we 1:43:40.280 --> 1:43:43.000 we and they wanted us to play the year before 1:43:43.479 --> 1:43:47.719 at Shaye Stadium and um because they wanted McCartney to close. 1:43:48.680 --> 1:43:51.519 And I said, We're only playing Shafe Stadium if we close. 1:43:52.840 --> 1:43:55.080 So and and if you didn't get McCartney you got 1:43:55.080 --> 1:43:59.559 no butt and and about I don't know. Six months 1:43:59.640 --> 1:44:05.000 later they came back and said, you can close, and um, 1:44:04.760 --> 1:44:10.280 ironically McCartney did close because he came to say stadium 1:44:10.520 --> 1:44:14.240 and um, you know, ended the concert with Billy doing 1:44:14.439 --> 1:44:16.599 uh let it be And I saw her standing there 1:44:17.160 --> 1:44:21.439 and I remember, um. On on the way home, Dave Howard, 1:44:21.720 --> 1:44:23.720 who was the Met executive at the time when we 1:44:23.760 --> 1:44:27.040 made to deal with he is on the phone. Misses, hey, Dave, 1:44:27.400 --> 1:44:29.599 you got your cake and you ate it really close 1:44:29.760 --> 1:44:33.120 and you got McCartney. So but it was well, that 1:44:33.200 --> 1:44:38.040 whole the whole thing was just uh spectacular. So here's Billy, 1:44:38.240 --> 1:44:41.799 who's so iconic in New York. How do you follow 1:44:42.000 --> 1:44:46.240 up Shay Stadium? We played Yankee Stadium, the old Yankee Stadium. 1:44:46.280 --> 1:44:49.679 We had played the Giant Stadium, you know multiple times 1:44:49.680 --> 1:44:54.679 with Elton John What do you do? And and and 1:44:54.680 --> 1:44:58.000 and and uh So one night, Um, I was in 1:44:58.040 --> 1:45:01.520 Turks and Tikos with my Fami Emilee and with Ja Marciano, 1:45:01.560 --> 1:45:03.920 who at that time was president of the Garden and 1:45:03.960 --> 1:45:07.000 now obviously one's a g and and out of that 1:45:07.120 --> 1:45:10.880 dinner evolved the idea of doing a once a month 1:45:10.920 --> 1:45:14.519 in and it didn't happen for a couple of years later. 1:45:14.680 --> 1:45:16.920 Remember J and I we actually had a deal in place, 1:45:17.600 --> 1:45:21.680 and uh when we did it, um, you know, uh, 1:45:21.800 --> 1:45:24.360 and then the Garden and Jay was now no longer there, 1:45:24.360 --> 1:45:27.320 and the Garden came and they talked about making Billy 1:45:27.320 --> 1:45:31.360 a franchise, and the Knicks and the Ranges and and uh, 1:45:31.400 --> 1:45:34.360 you know, I believe we would sell out twelve the 1:45:34.400 --> 1:45:37.759 first year, which was in two thousand fourteen. That I believe, 1:45:37.800 --> 1:45:40.200 because in two thousand and six we had sold out 1:45:40.240 --> 1:45:42.920 twelve and I think the record at the time was 1:45:43.600 --> 1:45:47.080 the Dead had sold out like thirteen or Bruce or whatever. 1:45:47.880 --> 1:45:50.880 And so the idea once we went on that we 1:45:50.880 --> 1:45:54.760 would sell twenty four two years once a month, and 1:45:54.800 --> 1:45:58.600 we sell nineteen thousand, we sell the whole building. But 1:45:58.720 --> 1:46:01.559 the idea that we could possibly sell twenty four was 1:46:01.640 --> 1:46:05.160 just amazing to me. Well we did it. We saw 1:46:05.240 --> 1:46:10.679 that the twenty four and now we're up to seventy. Um, 1:46:10.800 --> 1:46:14.360 we're up to seventy three. We actually have six shows 1:46:14.439 --> 1:46:17.720 that have been rescheduled UM that we're supposed to take 1:46:17.720 --> 1:46:20.920 place since the virus, so we're really up to seventy nine. 1:46:21.000 --> 1:46:25.280 When we finished next April, we're starting this again. Billy 1:46:25.400 --> 1:46:29.040 returns to the Guarden November five, so we would have 1:46:29.280 --> 1:46:32.000 We have been at the Garden for seven years. I 1:46:32.000 --> 1:46:34.719 mean we've seen people go through college, We've seen people 1:46:34.760 --> 1:46:38.439 go from high school, they graduated, we've seen people have children. 1:46:38.560 --> 1:46:40.400 It's you know, we say, hey, you know, watch seven 1:46:40.439 --> 1:46:45.439 years go by, and we are now up to like 1:46:45.520 --> 1:46:47.920 I said, we finished the seventy nine, will he'll be 1:46:48.000 --> 1:46:50.599 up to his eight show is something like a hundred 1:46:50.640 --> 1:46:53.000 and thirty something lifetime, which I've been to every one 1:46:53.040 --> 1:46:57.400 of them, and it's it's it's it's a phenomena. And 1:46:57.439 --> 1:47:00.960 I and I remember Billy saying to me at one point, 1:47:01.360 --> 1:47:05.240 are you sure this is gonna work? And um, you 1:47:05.240 --> 1:47:07.880 know it did. But I tell you the truth, as 1:47:07.920 --> 1:47:11.040 as as proud as the sighted, and and and and 1:47:11.240 --> 1:47:13.519 first of all, it's so amazing to have an artist 1:47:13.760 --> 1:47:15.960 that you can represent. You can dream all you want, 1:47:15.960 --> 1:47:18.160 but I have somebody that can do it. I mean 1:47:18.160 --> 1:47:20.439 that he's capable of doing that, he can actually draw, 1:47:20.680 --> 1:47:24.160 that's you know, So the fact that Billy can do this, 1:47:24.640 --> 1:47:27.280 and and it's always been my philosophy. I always wanted 1:47:27.280 --> 1:47:32.760 to do rock God, rock God things, things that confirm 1:47:33.080 --> 1:47:36.479 who you are in the world. So if you if 1:47:36.520 --> 1:47:43.000 if if, if you are playing um uh stadiums or 1:47:43.200 --> 1:47:47.360 doing what you do with the Garden God, that's who 1:47:47.400 --> 1:47:50.479 you are. You know, that's you know. And that again 1:47:50.920 --> 1:47:54.439 and and that you can do this, uh these kind 1:47:54.479 --> 1:47:59.240 of events is very very rarefied air, and so I 1:47:59.280 --> 1:48:02.719 always looked to do that. I always look to prove 1:48:03.479 --> 1:48:05.920 who we are and who he is, to show who 1:48:05.960 --> 1:48:09.280 he is. And but one of the proudest things is 1:48:09.400 --> 1:48:12.000 that I am of him and his career. That he's 1:48:12.000 --> 1:48:14.720 a stadium act. I mean we weren't a stadium ac. 1:48:15.000 --> 1:48:17.040 I mean this guy could sell a stadium anywhere, and 1:48:17.120 --> 1:48:20.200 it's whether it's Kansas City or Buffalo or Green Bay, 1:48:20.760 --> 1:48:23.920 and that with no hit record, but it's it's all 1:48:23.960 --> 1:48:27.719 a testament to his body of work. But the idea 1:48:28.160 --> 1:48:31.519 that in the last eight years we went basically from 1:48:31.560 --> 1:48:33.559 an arena ract to clean me up to play every 1:48:33.560 --> 1:48:37.439 stadium anywhere is just that is what I am most 1:48:37.439 --> 1:48:40.560 proud of. That he can do that, and that becomes 1:48:41.600 --> 1:48:46.679 that that that existed out there and that that's where 1:48:46.720 --> 1:48:48.880 he went and when we were able to do that 1:48:49.479 --> 1:48:53.640 with nothing, with nothing more than his catalog is a 1:48:53.720 --> 1:48:56.040 great testament to him. And that's something I'm just so 1:48:56.080 --> 1:49:00.160 proud about. Is he still into it? Oh yeah, I 1:49:00.160 --> 1:49:04.639 mean you know he's um. You know, Billy doesn't get 1:49:04.680 --> 1:49:07.400 ever too high and too low. But yes, he's I 1:49:07.400 --> 1:49:10.080 think he's very proud of it. I mean his Rapino 1:49:10.160 --> 1:49:14.000 said in his interview, he is something with you. You 1:49:14.000 --> 1:49:16.960 you are what you can sell and what venues you 1:49:17.000 --> 1:49:21.160 can play. And and hey, I do certain things because 1:49:21.160 --> 1:49:23.880 others can't. I mean, you know, we played we we 1:49:23.960 --> 1:49:26.679 played in Kansas City, the first show at Coaufman Stadium 1:49:26.680 --> 1:49:29.559 with the Royals played baseball thirty eight years. I heard 1:49:29.600 --> 1:49:32.400 that I couldn't wait with a hook thirty eight years 1:49:32.400 --> 1:49:34.800 with the first show, and we blew it right out. 1:49:34.880 --> 1:49:37.839 So I like the way I like to do things, 1:49:37.880 --> 1:49:41.040 Like hey, when I hear buffalo and I hear nobody 1:49:41.080 --> 1:49:43.560 sells that buffalo over hey, we sold that buffalo on 1:49:43.600 --> 1:49:46.800 the onset. I mean I like to do things. We 1:49:46.920 --> 1:49:50.080 played Fenway Park seven years in a row, We played 1:49:50.120 --> 1:49:52.720 Wrigley Field five years in a row. He played Citizens 1:49:52.720 --> 1:49:56.120 Bank Bullpark six years in a row. Why because nobody 1:49:56.200 --> 1:49:58.360 else can do that you know you can go there once? 1:49:58.360 --> 1:49:59.920 Can you go there every year and sell it out? 1:50:00.439 --> 1:50:02.280 And we're not the grateful day? Well, well you know 1:50:02.360 --> 1:50:05.360 we're not fish. We don't have that. So that's an 1:50:05.400 --> 1:50:11.320 amazing testament to his work. And so I love doing 1:50:11.400 --> 1:50:17.960 things that most don't. They can't Okay, most acts coming 1:50:17.960 --> 1:50:21.280 through New York City, they played Medicine Square Garden for 1:50:21.280 --> 1:50:24.320 the status. They can't make any money. So I assume 1:50:24.400 --> 1:50:26.600 you have a special deal that this is lucrative for 1:50:26.640 --> 1:50:29.680 you and Billy, I would hope. So, I mean, you know, 1:50:29.840 --> 1:50:33.240 not the Okay, let's go back to history for a second. 1:50:34.320 --> 1:50:38.759 How did the Olton and Billy thing come together? And 1:50:39.120 --> 1:50:41.800 I know Abilly needed an operation? Why did it never 1:50:41.880 --> 1:50:46.320 happen again? Well, it came together. I'll tell you. I 1:50:46.400 --> 1:50:49.760 remember one night we were in Toronto and I'm saying, hey, Billy, 1:50:49.840 --> 1:50:52.160 let's do some stadiums, and well, you know when he 1:50:52.280 --> 1:50:55.320 was like, well, I don't really think I think we 1:50:56.000 --> 1:50:57.640 I don't think it's a bang for the buck for 1:50:57.680 --> 1:51:00.160 the fan. We've got to give him somebody else we 1:51:00.240 --> 1:51:02.840 should be we should put something together. So we're all 1:51:02.920 --> 1:51:07.759 sitting around and and we came up with Elton, and 1:51:07.800 --> 1:51:11.080 I said, okay, Um, well, hey Dennis, Well when went 1:51:11.160 --> 1:51:14.679 to Carey went to call Elton's people. So I call 1:51:14.760 --> 1:51:17.120 Howard Rose out of the blue, and this is exactly 1:51:17.160 --> 1:51:20.439 how the conversation went. I go, Howard, would you be 1:51:20.560 --> 1:51:24.200 interested in going out with us? And Howard goes there's 1:51:24.200 --> 1:51:27.000 a pause on the phone, and he goes, how many 1:51:27.120 --> 1:51:31.000 nights you think we could sell out Philadelphia? That's how 1:51:32.560 --> 1:51:36.479 and we sold out three And that's exactly how it 1:51:36.680 --> 1:51:40.800 how it it started, and um, and actually it was 1:51:40.960 --> 1:51:44.240 so unique in that uh. And I love Howard Rose, 1:51:44.360 --> 1:51:46.800 I mean I do, I I had. He was such 1:51:46.800 --> 1:51:51.559 a wonderful partner through the whole process and um, and 1:51:51.680 --> 1:51:56.479 he represented Elton with the passion that I represented Billy. 1:51:57.120 --> 1:52:01.439 And we were equal and there was never and he 1:52:01.439 --> 1:52:04.120 he never and we we were both and we had 1:52:04.320 --> 1:52:07.960 arguments and all kinds of stuff, but he was as 1:52:08.200 --> 1:52:11.800 genuine to Elton as I was to Billy, and we 1:52:11.840 --> 1:52:14.760 were kind of both in the same position. And it 1:52:14.800 --> 1:52:19.280 was it was just, uh, it was great. And we 1:52:19.400 --> 1:52:22.759 you know, we we played stadiums like the tour remember 1:52:22.800 --> 1:52:27.280 started a ninety fourd San Diego, um bill Silver Presents 1:52:28.080 --> 1:52:31.599 and uh, it was. It was just an amazing and 1:52:31.680 --> 1:52:35.240 today you couldn't. You couldn't put it together because they 1:52:35.240 --> 1:52:37.920 don't they don't need each other. Financially, you can't afford it. 1:52:38.160 --> 1:52:41.040 What can you do? You can double the prices, you 1:52:41.080 --> 1:52:46.720 can't get It's almost economically not possible unless worldwide. Who 1:52:46.760 --> 1:52:52.240 could sell more tickets? Elton or Billy worldwide? Am I 1:52:52.280 --> 1:52:55.280 announcing a reunion too? I mean I know no, no, no, 1:52:55.280 --> 1:52:57.640 no not. I'm just asking no when they when you 1:52:57.680 --> 1:53:01.920 put the tour together? Okay, I thought was Elton was 1:53:01.960 --> 1:53:04.320 a bigger act. We're not talking to forget the music, 1:53:04.400 --> 1:53:07.639 let's just stock selling tickets, okay. But now at this 1:53:07.760 --> 1:53:12.760 late day, it looks like Billy's the bigger act. You know, um, 1:53:12.840 --> 1:53:16.280 el you know one thing like like I always believe 1:53:16.360 --> 1:53:19.000 with Billy, you know, he was always an underdog. He 1:53:19.080 --> 1:53:24.120 never got the notoriety that Bruce, Michael Jackson, a lot 1:53:24.160 --> 1:53:28.360 of artists Elton, you know, you know, Billy was kind 1:53:28.400 --> 1:53:32.920 of we just he just won quietly. Up until the 1:53:33.000 --> 1:53:36.559 early nineties, he was the number one selling artist in 1:53:36.560 --> 1:53:39.640 in America behind the Beatles. And you know now he 1:53:39.640 --> 1:53:43.360 hasn't put out a record since ninety three. But um, 1:53:43.720 --> 1:53:47.719 but Elton, you know Elton, you know, I would say 1:53:47.840 --> 1:53:51.680 probably at that time worldwide. I mean we we got 1:53:51.720 --> 1:53:54.759 a lot of exchanges. There were different cities and different countries. 1:53:55.240 --> 1:53:59.879 I mean, m Elton. Elton played a lot more England, 1:54:00.040 --> 1:54:03.040 and you know, his touring was different. He'd played many 1:54:03.080 --> 1:54:05.240 different kind of venues. It wasn't like Elton was just 1:54:05.479 --> 1:54:08.800 touring stadiums throughout Europe and then we came along. He 1:54:08.840 --> 1:54:12.160 would play all kinds of different venues and and things 1:54:12.200 --> 1:54:15.200 that that you know, that that the Billy would do. 1:54:15.720 --> 1:54:20.400 So I think at the time it was, um, it 1:54:20.560 --> 1:54:23.960 worked for both of them. They both could it. Just 1:54:24.240 --> 1:54:27.280 it took them up a level. We kind of in 1:54:27.320 --> 1:54:30.240 the billy world. We did the arenas, we did the 1:54:30.320 --> 1:54:35.400 multiple arenas. We needed to go to another level. And um, 1:54:35.400 --> 1:54:37.240 it wasn't like we're gonna stary having a hit record. 1:54:37.480 --> 1:54:40.360 This was the next level. And um, hey listen, a 1:54:40.360 --> 1:54:44.560 lot of artists emulated that package. That was the home 1:54:44.800 --> 1:54:49.240 of the of two of the greats. And uh, you 1:54:49.280 --> 1:54:53.000 know you'll probably never see it again, at least, you know, 1:54:53.080 --> 1:54:55.520 you can never say never. I know Billy and Elton 1:54:56.040 --> 1:54:59.560 still close or still still communicate, to each other, but 1:55:00.680 --> 1:55:06.400 it's it's just um, you know, uh, you know they're 1:55:06.440 --> 1:55:09.320 they're they're both you know, it's just it both doing 1:55:09.720 --> 1:55:13.560 amazing at this time. I mean, Billy was Elton, now 1:55:13.600 --> 1:55:17.560 on his retirement tour, has done spectacular business and uh 1:55:17.640 --> 1:55:23.360 and Billy Hey quietly has done amazing. I mean, Billy 1:55:23.520 --> 1:55:26.080 is is this is what you aspire to be, is 1:55:26.120 --> 1:55:31.440 what Billy Joel is doing. Okay, two best shows you 1:55:31.480 --> 1:55:35.920 ever saw LED's Zeppe one at the film Worice when 1:55:35.920 --> 1:55:38.240 I was nineteen. I was sitting in the seventh row 1:55:38.840 --> 1:55:41.360 and they were headlining for the first time in America 1:55:41.400 --> 1:55:45.200 and they had to prove it. That is still a memory. 1:55:45.240 --> 1:55:47.440 I mean it was like the greatest four of musicians 1:55:47.480 --> 1:55:51.040 I've ever seen. Robert Plant was the ultimate frontman sexy. 1:55:51.400 --> 1:55:53.000 You know, he s took his jeans. I was a 1:55:53.040 --> 1:55:56.440 guy who just like this guy. I mean, you know, 1:55:56.480 --> 1:55:59.440 it's like it wasn't my thing, but you know every 1:55:59.440 --> 1:56:02.360 girl wanted fuck him and you know, uh and you 1:56:02.400 --> 1:56:05.000 know Page and Bonham and John's it was just bottom was. 1:56:05.160 --> 1:56:11.480 It was just incredible and you know, certainly I Billy 1:56:11.520 --> 1:56:16.040 at Say Stadium was uh, it was as as great 1:56:16.080 --> 1:56:18.680 as it can be. Bruce at the bottom Line. I 1:56:18.720 --> 1:56:22.080 saw Bruce's bottom line in seventy four and he he 1:56:22.160 --> 1:56:25.600 took im talk about the year before born to Run. Yeah, 1:56:25.640 --> 1:56:29.400 Bruce when it was an amazing moment that he was 1:56:29.440 --> 1:56:34.360 a guy playing this four hundred sea club and he 1:56:35.040 --> 1:56:39.320 was breaking around the world as a superstar, and it 1:56:39.480 --> 1:56:42.920 was like all coming from this little club. It was 1:56:43.040 --> 1:56:47.160 just you know, so that that was probably an amazing 1:56:47.360 --> 1:56:51.680 moment of watching an artist being celebrated in this bar 1:56:51.800 --> 1:56:55.480 that was now becoming a worldwide phenomena. But you know, 1:56:55.600 --> 1:56:59.560 Billy at Shay Stadium was h you know, like I 1:56:59.640 --> 1:57:02.240 say I said before, it took me a week to 1:57:02.280 --> 1:57:06.600 come down from that. But um, but Jeppelin at UH 1:57:06.640 --> 1:57:08.520 and I was a major Doors fan. I went to 1:57:08.720 --> 1:57:14.120 I saw the Doors um multiple times in my um 1:57:14.160 --> 1:57:17.040 in my life, and it was Jim Morrison was a 1:57:17.160 --> 1:57:19.360 very big influence. You know, it was actually one of 1:57:19.400 --> 1:57:22.920 the great influences of my life. Was Terry Knight really 1:57:23.280 --> 1:57:28.560 Terry Knight in the pack Crook? Well, I don't I 1:57:28.600 --> 1:57:31.920 can't speak for what he did internally, and I you know, 1:57:32.280 --> 1:57:37.920 but I but he took a band and those days, 1:57:38.640 --> 1:57:40.280 in those days, how do to you either be from 1:57:40.280 --> 1:57:43.720 England or San Francisco. You how you know it was 1:57:44.240 --> 1:57:47.720 it was um you know, you had to get radio play, 1:57:47.840 --> 1:57:50.080 you had to be hit. And he took three guys 1:57:50.120 --> 1:57:53.240 from Michigan who got no airplay, who look who were 1:57:53.320 --> 1:57:58.400 supposed to be uncool, and and they got and and 1:57:58.480 --> 1:58:01.800 he and they came the biggest band in the world. 1:58:01.840 --> 1:58:05.840 They sold out, Chase stayed even seventy two, fastened the Beatles, 1:58:05.920 --> 1:58:09.920 and his campaign, I mean I emulated and I still do. 1:58:10.000 --> 1:58:12.800 And I remember one time Chef Gordon and I when 1:58:12.800 --> 1:58:15.160 we when he was talking about the Alice Cooper campaign, 1:58:15.200 --> 1:58:18.360 we talked about Terry Knight. But I emulated what this 1:58:18.440 --> 1:58:21.320 guy does, what he did, and I still use some 1:58:21.400 --> 1:58:24.560 of the things that he did. He'd buy six pages 1:58:24.600 --> 1:58:27.959 in Billboard or cash box in those days with pictures 1:58:27.960 --> 1:58:30.520 of the guys, and I would go and I was, 1:58:30.600 --> 1:58:32.760 you know, and I was one of those at the time. 1:58:33.240 --> 1:58:35.920 I was a student learning, and I was like, they 1:58:36.040 --> 1:58:39.120 have to be big. Look at this, you know. I mean, 1:58:39.320 --> 1:58:42.400 he sold me on how big they were before they were. 1:58:43.080 --> 1:58:47.480 And I've used through the years some of his strategies 1:58:47.680 --> 1:58:51.000 in the marketing and the making of an artist. It 1:58:51.080 --> 1:58:54.000 was like, if you tell the industry, they will tell 1:58:54.000 --> 1:58:57.920 the public. That's your best shot. So but he did. 1:58:58.000 --> 1:59:01.000 I remember one time on the US to the Home album, 1:59:01.200 --> 1:59:04.160 he took his billboard out on Times Square. It was 1:59:04.240 --> 1:59:07.080 just huge, and there was a painter strike that their 1:59:07.160 --> 1:59:11.480 pictures were hanging on that billboard for months, and it 1:59:11.520 --> 1:59:15.440 was just it was like only people that were stars, 1:59:15.800 --> 1:59:18.520 big stars, would get this, and they weren't yet, but 1:59:18.600 --> 1:59:21.640 they had to be. So he sold me and I 1:59:21.680 --> 1:59:25.120 bought into it, and and years later I represented them 1:59:25.120 --> 1:59:27.320 for a while. I represented them to kind of when 1:59:27.320 --> 1:59:29.200 it was the end of the Grand Fund, when Mark, 1:59:29.320 --> 1:59:33.000 Donnie and Mel were still all together and David Fisher 1:59:33.200 --> 1:59:35.640 was managing them at the time, I had a chance 1:59:36.000 --> 1:59:39.200 of representing them for a while and it was so 1:59:39.400 --> 1:59:40.760 and I was a fan. It was one of the 1:59:40.800 --> 1:59:42.640 few times I was like, really, I'm such a fan, 1:59:43.320 --> 1:59:45.720 but I was a fan of the phenomenon. Okay, if 1:59:45.760 --> 1:59:48.560 you got the original members back together as their demand 1:59:48.600 --> 1:59:55.560 for that today, you mean for for Grand Fund right today? 1:59:56.600 --> 2:00:02.600 You know, Um, there's some demands. I mean, you know, uh, 2:00:03.040 --> 2:00:05.560 it's it's kind of been warded down over the years. 2:00:05.640 --> 2:00:09.960 I don't know, um, you know, I'm sure it certainly 2:00:09.960 --> 2:00:11.960 wouldn't be the demand that it was, and it's prime. 2:00:12.800 --> 2:00:16.560 You know, it's not like uh some other combinations would 2:00:16.640 --> 2:00:19.760 would that if if this member came back to the band, 2:00:19.800 --> 2:00:24.280 that would enhance them. Anybody you have who you don't represent, 2:00:24.400 --> 2:00:28.680 that you'd like to represent, we have a vision how 2:00:28.720 --> 2:00:31.600 to do it? Oh, I think that all the time. 2:00:32.200 --> 2:00:35.920 I'm I'm I'm a student. I think of things. I 2:00:37.200 --> 2:00:40.320 wouldn't say that because I'd like the artist to hear it, 2:00:40.360 --> 2:00:42.960 but I it wouldn't really be fair. But I think 2:00:42.960 --> 2:00:45.480 of certain artists that should be doing things that would 2:00:45.600 --> 2:00:48.840 enhance them if they're doing arenas, why they're how they 2:00:48.840 --> 2:00:52.000 can get the stadiums, what they're not doing. Oh, absolutely, 2:00:52.440 --> 2:00:55.240 I definitely see that. I mean, I definitely think I 2:00:55.280 --> 2:00:59.840 can help move some people's career to hey, Leopard and 2:01:00.400 --> 2:01:03.960 playing stadiums, def Leopards playing stadiums for the second tour 2:01:04.000 --> 2:01:06.800 in a row in America, I mean, you know, and 2:01:06.920 --> 2:01:10.280 making a huge money. I mean that wasn't happening. Now. 2:01:10.320 --> 2:01:13.360 There's a perception def Leopards a fucking a huge band 2:01:13.880 --> 2:01:16.920 and and and and crew. So you know, but there's 2:01:16.960 --> 2:01:20.280 definitely things that um, I would love to do if 2:01:20.320 --> 2:01:23.920 I had the opportunity to. You know, that's you know, 2:01:24.040 --> 2:01:27.920 make the help, enhance people to be bigger, make make 2:01:28.000 --> 2:01:32.040 moves dea Leopard lose, leaves, Q Prime goes to Howard Kaufman. 2:01:32.320 --> 2:01:35.600 How do you remain the agent? I used to go 2:01:35.680 --> 2:01:37.840 to l A when you when you said to me, 2:01:38.200 --> 2:01:41.600 um earlier you said, um, you know, to go on 2:01:41.640 --> 2:01:45.600 the street to go to clubs. I visited managers and 2:01:45.760 --> 2:01:49.320 I used to visit Howard and I didn't have any 2:01:49.320 --> 2:01:53.680 clients with him, but he would see me. And and 2:01:53.720 --> 2:01:57.280 then when you know, when Leopard left and went to Howard, 2:01:57.640 --> 2:02:00.960 Howard stayed with me. That's that, you know, just from 2:02:00.960 --> 2:02:05.320 those meetings, he stayed with me. And I became very 2:02:05.320 --> 2:02:07.680 close to Howard. And we'll be you know, as a 2:02:07.680 --> 2:02:09.960 matter of fact, to give me poison you really admired 2:02:10.080 --> 2:02:15.360 might work. We had a very good relationship and um, 2:02:16.000 --> 2:02:20.080 you know he uh, you know, I was fortunate. I 2:02:20.080 --> 2:02:22.680 I could have lost it at that moment, but um, 2:02:22.840 --> 2:02:25.000 he stayed with me. That's as simple as that. And 2:02:25.040 --> 2:02:27.760 then when he passed, Mike Kobe Ash has done a 2:02:27.760 --> 2:02:33.720 great job with the band. Uh you know everything's you know, Um, Mike, 2:02:33.800 --> 2:02:36.400 I have a great relationship and he's helped elevate I mean, 2:02:36.440 --> 2:02:39.840 Howard rest in peace. He'd be sitting here rooting Mike 2:02:39.920 --> 2:02:42.040 and me on, like you guys have done such a 2:02:42.040 --> 2:02:45.120 great job taking it, taken the mantle to the next step, 2:02:45.160 --> 2:02:48.520 and we're so proud of it. On that note, I 2:02:48.520 --> 2:02:51.440 think we're gonna end for today. This has been wonderful. Dennis. 2:02:51.960 --> 2:02:54.120 You know I want to do you because you're opening honest, 2:02:54.160 --> 2:02:57.080 You'll hold no punchers. Thanks so much for taking the time. 2:02:57.880 --> 2:03:00.840 Bob A lot of fun. It's nice listen to myself 2:03:00.920 --> 2:03:03.440 tell all these things because I never did, but it 2:03:03.480 --> 2:03:06.280 was it was cool. I like, like fun. Thank you, Bob. 2:03:06.400 --> 2:03:08.880 Until next time. This is Bob Love sex