1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 2 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: Meet Your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 3 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: I am very excited about today's episode. It is with 4 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: a friend of the show that I'm excited to bring 5 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:33,639 Speaker 1: back and introduce new book Black Women Taught Us An 6 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: Intimate History of Black Feminism by doctor Jen M. Jackson. 7 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: And in this conversation, Jen and I get into, you know, 8 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:53,959 Speaker 1: the history of Black women, of black influence, of the 9 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: racism and massage noir that we have seen as of 10 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: late in the media, and just talk about the importance 11 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: of books like theirs that really goes far in terms 12 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: of lifting up the illuminating figures within black feminism that 13 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: have shaped this country. We talk about the difference right 14 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: between quote feminism and black feminism. We dig into the 15 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: Black liberation movement and discuss the real importance of understanding 16 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: the nuances that have always been at play, the tightrope 17 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: that black women have always had to walk in our 18 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: society and continue to do so. And you know, I 19 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: enjoy I always enjoy a time that I get the 20 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: opportunity to speak with Jen, because they bring this country. 21 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: It's racism it's misogyny, it's transphobia, it's homophobia to task 22 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,959 Speaker 1: all the time, and I deeply appreciate it. So I 23 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: hope that you all enjoy the conversation with doctor M. 24 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: Jackson on their new book, Black Women Taught Us, An 25 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: Intimate History of Black Feminism. It is out now, folks. 26 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: I am very excited to welcome back to OKF Daily. 27 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: It's been a long time. Actually, yeah right, it's been 28 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: a long time doctor Jen M. Jackson, who is an 29 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: assistant professor at Syracuse University in the Department of Political Science, 30 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: and the new author. I want to just give a 31 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: round of applause, new author of the book Black Women 32 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: Taught Us, which is a portrait of I think black 33 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,959 Speaker 1: women who some we know, some we don't know. At 34 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: a time Jen where I think that in so many ways, 35 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: we are seeing black women in all of these different positions. 36 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: Whether you're looking at Fawnie Willison, Georgie, You're looking at 37 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: Tish James, You're looking at you know, Angel Reese, You're 38 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: looking at all of these different black women that are 39 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: in the spotlight, and we're watching the way that a 40 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: lot has changed and a lot hasn't in terms of 41 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: what we see, expect, want and demand from black women 42 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: to talk to us about this book and just loving 43 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: the title, love the cover black women taught us, tell 44 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: us about it and the why behind it for you. 45 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that background introduction. I can't 46 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: take very much credit for the cover except that I did. 47 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: I did indicate to the team at Penguin that I 48 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: wanted a black woman designer to be behind the design. 49 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: So this is from Her name is Ziah Gordon and 50 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 2: she's on Instagram as careful Black Girl and girl spelled GRL. 51 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 2: She's an incredible designer and very attentive to guidance. So 52 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 2: this book, you know, it is so important to me 53 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: because when I conceived of writing it, I was it 54 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 2: was just before COVID nineteen started to spike in twenty twenty, 55 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: and I was coming out of graduate school and I 56 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 2: was thinking, you know, what book do I even have 57 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: in me to write? And you know, this was the 58 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 2: time when so many books were really being written to 59 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: white women about black folk, and I just didn't want 60 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: to participate in that process. So this book is actually 61 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 2: based on a course that I teach at Syracuse University 62 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: of the Young People to undergrads and graduate students, and 63 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 2: it's a kind of archive and anthology of my own 64 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 2: black feminist journey and all the bumps along the way, 65 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: the self discovery, the process of understanding my own queerness, 66 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 2: and how black feminist literature and their lives taught me 67 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 2: so much about that. Right. So I start the book 68 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: off actually not talking about any of the women on 69 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 2: the cover. I started the book off talking about my mother. 70 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 2: And it starts off at a choir rehearsal that took 71 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 2: place in my house every Wednesday. My mom is a singer, 72 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: and all my aunts are singers and very religious people, 73 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 2: so it was gospel music and they always came on 74 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 2: Wednesdays and had these choir rehearsals. And this was my 75 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 2: time to spend all this additional time with older women, 76 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 2: older Black women who saw me and wanted to participate 77 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 2: in the process of raising me, of ensuring my survival. 78 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 2: And I tell about my Auntie Barbara, who taught me 79 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: how to make sure the chicken was cooked all the 80 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: way through. She was like, okay, baby, that chicken is bleeding. 81 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 2: You got to poke it with a fork, you know. 82 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: And these little lessons I got from my auntie Donna Fey, 83 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: who never wanted me to go outside without ear rings on, 84 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 2: you know. So like these things and these women were 85 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 2: not actually blood little things, you know, they were what 86 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 2: we call fictive kin you know. So this book is 87 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 2: really an ode to as much to the Addo Lords 88 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 2: and the Tony Morrison's and the I. W. Wells Is 89 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: as they are to the Auntie Donna Fese, the Auntie 90 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 2: Barbera's and my mother Cynthia, and my grandmother Lucia and 91 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: my grandmother Clara, right, they're meant to. This book is 92 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 2: meant to be a sequence of love stories, of love 93 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: letters to the women who were invested in my futurity, 94 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: who were invested in seeing me survive. And I think 95 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 2: that's inherently what black feminism is about, right, about ensuring 96 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 2: black folks' survival. And unfortunately black women have had to 97 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 2: do that work for so long, and they've done it 98 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 2: mostly thankless, right, And so this book is also to 99 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: say thank you for your work that is too often overlooked. 100 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: Tell us why there is, I guess, an important distinction 101 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: between black feminists ideology and white feminism. Why that distinction 102 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: and the literature and the ideology is so distinctly different 103 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: and needs to be taught and expressed in that way. 104 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. So this is an important question because a lot 105 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: of people don't understand that feminism, mainstream feminism started at 106 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: the same time as black feminism really got its start. 107 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: People think that black feminism is kind of new, but 108 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: in actuality, the first wave of what we call now 109 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: mainstream white feminism started with white women who in the 110 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: nineteenth and twentieth centuries were thinking about their relationship to 111 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: their husbands. They were thinking about the fact that they 112 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: would say they felt owned by their husbands. Meanwhile, those 113 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 2: same women owned black women, right, And they weren't thinking 114 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: about the fact that as they were thinking of womanhood 115 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: and of feminism and of their own rights, they weren't 116 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 2: thinking about the rights of the women who were working 117 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: in their households. Right. And so mainstream white feminism, that 118 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 2: first wave, the Simone de Bouvier's of the world, the 119 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: Mary Wollston Crafts of the world, were not thinking about 120 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: race at all. They were just thinking about their orientation 121 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: to white men, right. So what happens here is that 122 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: what people overlook is that people like and Aulia Cooper 123 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 2: were writing in eighteen ninety two books like A Voice 124 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: from the South and A Voice from the South is 125 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 2: really thinking about what it means to be a black 126 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: woman in black churches in the South, where they're facing lynching. 127 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: It's the post slavery moment, the post emancipation moment. What 128 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: does it mean to be free now? Right? I to 129 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 2: be well? Right? Southern horrors in eighteen ninety two as well. 130 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 2: So at the same time that white women are thinking 131 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: about being owned by white men, black women are thinking 132 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: about what it means to be oppressed by everyone else, right, 133 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: And so feminism ends up being associated with those white women. 134 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: That first wave is that kind of moment of their 135 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: self realization that we don't belong to these men. The 136 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: second wave actually emerges during the Civil Rights era, which 137 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 2: is kind of funny because black women are obviously thinking 138 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 2: about race once again, but white women are thinking about labor. 139 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: They're thinking about what it means to work outside the home. Right. 140 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 2: They have now been faced with the Great Depression, They're 141 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: now faced with men who are having to leave for 142 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 2: multiple wars, and they're thinking about what it means to 143 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 2: use their labor to help promote the household. What does 144 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 2: it mean to be a respectable wife who has meat 145 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 2: loaf waiting on the stove when everybody gets home. But 146 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 2: now you need two incomes maybe to keep that house 147 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 2: hold going right. Meanwhile, black women are trying to survive 148 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: and get the right to vote in nineteen twenty. We 149 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: know that women got the right to vote codified in 150 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 2: the nineteenth Amendment, But what we rarely talk about is 151 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 2: that it took until the voting rights back in nineteen 152 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: sixty five for black folks to actually have the legitimate 153 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,719 Speaker 2: right to vote. Right to tear down all of these 154 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: kind of grandfather clauses and various laws that kept them 155 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: from the poles. So what you see here is another 156 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 2: dissonance between what white women's concerns are and the lived 157 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 2: experiences of black women. And as the third wave of 158 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 2: e merges in the seventies and eighties, white women are 159 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 2: thinking about reproduction, their bodily justice, what it means to 160 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: live freely in their skin. They're taking off their braws, 161 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 2: they're burning bras and things like this. But this is 162 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: the Black power moment, right This is when black women 163 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 2: all over the country are trying to fgure out what 164 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 2: it means for us to have rights against a carceral state. 165 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 2: This at the same time that the war on drugs 166 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: is increasing, and there's a huge epidemic across the north 167 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 2: of the A's and HIV crisis, right, And so black 168 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 2: women are thinking, what does it mean for us to 169 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 2: live in community with folks who are not thinking about 170 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 2: our concerns? Right, So there's always been this disconnect between 171 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 2: white women's kind of mainstream feminist concerns and the lived 172 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: experiences of black women. Right. So black feminism has endured 173 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 2: all this time. Right, people for some reason associated with 174 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: the coining of intersectionality in nineteen eighty nine and nineteen 175 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 2: ninety one, but in actuality, intersectionality was a concept before 176 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: it was a theoretical term, right, people were thinking. Anela 177 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 2: Cooper was thinking about intersectionality when she wrote A Boye 178 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: from the South. Id B. Wells wrote in Southern Horrors 179 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 2: about the ways that little black girls were sexually assaulted 180 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 2: but there was no punishment for their aggressors because they 181 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: were both black and girl. Right, So she was already 182 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 2: thinking about those intersections of identity. So all this time 183 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,239 Speaker 2: we have been having a kind of intersectional feminist conversation 184 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: in Black feminist circles. It's just been overlooked by the 185 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: mainstream movement. And unfortunately that is part and parcel with 186 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 2: mainstream white feminism that it typically just associates itself with 187 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 2: the concerns of white women trying to be more like 188 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 2: or closer to white men, but not really being in 189 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 2: coalition with and in solidarity with black women. Jenn, let me. 190 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: Ask you this too. Thank you for that, because I mean, 191 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: it's like you just gave us a brief insight into 192 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: what I would imagine a one oh one and a 193 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: one oh two class withmen the like talk by you 194 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: tell me where you see or where you have found 195 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: black queerness inside of black feminism, and how you articulate 196 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: that inside of your book, how you have articulated that 197 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: inside of the teachings and the learnings right that you 198 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: both provide and have experience through your life. 199 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I always say, I've 200 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 2: always been a young, like black queer girl from Oakland, Right. 201 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: I think my mother very much clocked me as a child, right, 202 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: She would put me in stockings and dresses and all 203 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 2: these kind of girly things, and I was just I 204 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: was propelled by it, and I was six foot four 205 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 2: by the time I was twelve years old, and I 206 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 2: played sports and I was always leaned masculine, so I 207 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:51,119 Speaker 2: was a very gender queer teenager. My favorite shoe was Jordan's. 208 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: To my sixth grade graduation, I wore stockings, a leather vest, 209 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 2: a colored white shirt, a black skirt with slits up 210 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 2: the side, and on bat boots, you know. So it 211 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: was always yeah, and I was class president. So I 212 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 2: walked on stage and gave a speech in that outfit. 213 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 2: You know, I've always been this person, you know, I've 214 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 2: always been this queer girl, and I was so I 215 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 2: was so blessed and so lucky that my mother, who 216 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: was not tall, I'm the only tall woman in my family. 217 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: And they were all kind of like, we don't know 218 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: what to do with you up there, right, But my 219 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 2: mother and my grandmother's were very adamant about me loving 220 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 2: myself and me being fully in my body and being 221 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: proud of who I am and who I was, And 222 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 2: so my mom would always say, like, you keep your 223 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 2: head up, you never look down, you never hunt your shoulders, 224 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: you never you never shrink for people. You know, body, 225 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 2: you stand upright in your skin. And even when I 226 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 2: felt small on the inside, or when I was hiding 227 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 2: my gender and sexuality, when I was hiding my desires 228 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 2: because in a religious family, I couldn't say, hey, I 229 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 2: like girls, right, it was hard to express that, and 230 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 2: it slipped out from time to time. When I was eleven, 231 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: I combed my hair up into a high top faith 232 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 2: and I walked into my mom's bedroom. I said, Mom, 233 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: a boy, and she said, girl, if you don't get 234 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 2: out my bedroom, I am watching a movie, I'm not 235 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: you know, you know. And we never talked about it again, 236 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: but it was one of those She wasn't upset with me. 237 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: She was just like, don't interrupt my movie, you know. 238 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 2: And I think in a lot of respects my mother 239 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: allowing me to explore myself, you know, as I wished, 240 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 2: was how my queerness showed up, you know, And that's 241 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 2: how it shows up in the book. Right. So in 242 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: the book, I talk a lot about these moments where 243 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 2: I was discovering and this is this is gonna sound weird, 244 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: just I'm just gonna and say it. I didn't actually 245 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 2: really understand that I was gay until I was much 246 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: much older. And when I say much much older, I'm 247 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 2: I mean like in my thirties, mainly because in Oakland, 248 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: like everyone's like a little bit gay, right, So, like 249 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: Oakland is a very queer place. Berkeley is a very 250 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 2: queer place. It's a place where there's a lot of hippies, right, 251 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 2: And I felt like we were all doing a little 252 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: bit of queer shit. I was like, Oh, y'all like girls, right, 253 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 2: everybody likes everybody, you know. So for me, growing up 254 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: in California, in Oakland and Berkeley, in the Bay Area 255 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: in the eighties and nineties, being ginger queer wasn't weird. 256 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: We had a cross dressing day at my high school 257 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 2: and it was my favorite theme day. It was my 258 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 2: favorite theme day. I dressed like a boy, I painted 259 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: on a mustache, I got all my and the girls 260 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 2: flirted with me all day. I was like, this is amazing. 261 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 2: It was my favorite day. And no one thought it 262 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: was weird that we all would cross dress. The boys 263 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 2: would do it, everyone would cross dress. And as I 264 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 2: got older, I realized, oh, that's very that's very progressive, right, 265 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: that's even the teacherss would do it. I had a 266 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 2: a French teacher. He was a teacher in biology, but 267 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: he was a french Man and he had a full 268 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 2: hairy chest, and he would come to school in lingerie, 269 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 2: women's lingerie, you know, and he would just walk around 270 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: all day and women's lingerie, you know, and we were like, 271 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 2: this is fine. It said, Lacurt, you wear your lingerie. 272 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 2: And this was a big man, okay, my size and buff. 273 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 2: So you know, these things I think made queerness so 274 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 2: natural to me that it didn't stand out until I 275 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,719 Speaker 2: left home. Right when I left home and people were like, 276 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: why are you like that? Like what's and I was like, 277 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 2: what do you mean? And it started to cast a 278 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 2: light on the queer ways of being that had already 279 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 2: been acceptable and kind of that's who I was. And 280 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: that was when I turned to black feminism to be 281 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 2: like why why does everyone think I'm so weird? Like 282 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 2: why am I having such a hard time fitting in 283 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 2: in these spaces? Right? And that's the cricket room that 284 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 2: most of Harris Perry talks about, and I talk about 285 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 2: it in the introduction chapter where we're walking around, right 286 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 2: and we're trying to we're trying to fit in this 287 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 2: space and we think we're off right, but in actuality, 288 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 2: the room is crazy. The room is asking us to 289 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 2: behave in certain ways right that are not natural to 290 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: our bodies. And so we're trying to stand up right, 291 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 2: we're trying to fit and the room is just not 292 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: the room we should be in, right. And it took 293 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 2: me years and years and years to realize that, in 294 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,719 Speaker 2: this queer body, I needed to just stand upright and 295 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 2: walk out of that room. And for so long I 296 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 2: was trying to fit myself and fit myself and fit myself. 297 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 2: And so this book is really also a kind of 298 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: coming of age story of me walking through that journey 299 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 2: and understanding I don't have to fit myself into those rooms. 300 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: I think the beauty of this book, but also of 301 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: your own intertwining story is like the courage that it 302 00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 1: takes to say, as black women, as black people, this 303 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: room ain't right, it's not me right, and I'm going 304 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: to walk out of it right, and I'm going to 305 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: walk into and create something else right, because I think 306 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: that it has always been that the one size fits 307 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: all mentality of this country, right, which is that everybody 308 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: that comes here or is brought here, is forced here, 309 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: is forced to assimilate into some watered down, meek, small, 310 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: you know, docile version of who they actually are. And 311 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: I think that you know what your book, as you say, 312 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: your love letter, you know Black women taught us is 313 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: like no, you can leave that room. That room isn't 314 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 1: for you, Like that room isn't for you. And I 315 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: love that. With a few minutes that we have left, 316 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: I want to talk about what we have seen recently 317 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: in culture come across our screens. With most recently, I 318 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: want to talk about Amanda Seals first, a comedian actress 319 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: who was it like a couple of weeks ago op 320 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: ed written about her and the fact that she is 321 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: not palpable in some black spaces and for some black people. 322 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what else to say. I 323 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: don't know what other word to use, but she has 324 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: called out the black establishment, whether it's in media and Hollywood, 325 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: in this or that has a very acidic and this 326 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: is coming from me. This is coming from me who 327 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: says a lot of hot shit but has a very 328 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: acidic tongue when when talking about black people experience this 329 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: is that and the other thing, and gen people are 330 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: coming for her. They are coming for her, to the 331 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: point where I just saw on social media doctor Mark 332 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: lamon Hill coming out and saying, you know, the media, 333 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: a pylon that is happening around Amanda Seals is now 334 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: write and like, you know, I support her, blah blah, 335 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: make it make sense about what is happening in this universe. 336 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 2: So you know what, you know what this is the thing. 337 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 2: I made a post about this on Instagram and people 338 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 2: were upset because there is okay, So there's two parts 339 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 2: to this, which I think that people have to understand. 340 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: We don't have to choose sides. Right. There are the 341 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: people who say we should love one another, we should 342 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 2: offer grace to black women. This is you know, the 343 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 2: original piece was in essence and they're like, this is 344 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 2: a publication that's meant to uplift black women. How could 345 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 2: you all write this? So I understand that, right. There's 346 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 2: other side, which is kind of where I started off, 347 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: which is like, yeah, but people don't like her, right, 348 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 2: and that's okay, right. We don't have to like everyone, right. 349 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 2: There are plenty of people in academia, in publishing, in 350 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 2: entertainment who I don't personally like, right, and that don't 351 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 2: personally like me, and that's okay, right, And that was 352 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 2: kind of where my stance was. Now I'm in a 353 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 2: different place, and I'm in a place because I watched 354 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 2: a video of hers on Twitter where she was like 355 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: yelling like this is enough, enough is enough. I don't 356 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 2: know you people, And what I honestly want to say 357 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 2: about this is that grace is so important and accountability 358 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 2: is just as important. Right. And if people over the 359 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 2: years have come to you and said, we really don't 360 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 2: appreciate how you talk about poor black folks and these 361 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 2: nikes and Jordan's suits tracksuits or whatever, and passports, we 362 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 2: really didn't enjoy when you were defending Sean King. We 363 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 2: really felt a way when you were saying that Charlemagne 364 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 2: is your friend. These things hurt us because we like 365 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 2: you and we want better for you. Right. That What 366 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 2: people don't understand is that that is love. Right, Because 367 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 2: if people don't call you in, if people don't say 368 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 2: anything to you at all, that means they could care 369 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 2: less what you do or say. It's like you walk 370 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 2: outside with a booker in your nose and your friend 371 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 2: nless you get into a front of a room of 372 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 2: people with a booker hang out your nose or suspinaging 373 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 2: your teeth, right, that's not your friend. Right. But we 374 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 2: have been a friend to Amanda, and we have said 375 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 2: we don't like these things, and we expect more of you. 376 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 2: You only expect more of people who you believe have 377 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 2: the capacities do better. And unfortunately, each time that folks 378 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 2: have come to Amanda and said, hey, we really want 379 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 2: you to do better, Amanda has said, I don't care 380 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 2: what y'all think. Okay, yeah, and yeah, she doubles down, 381 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: she will go and do an interview about it, and 382 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 2: triple down. She'll never apologize. I don't think I've actually 383 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 2: even heard her say I'm sorry for saying these things 384 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: that might have hurt poor black folks or whatever it 385 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: might be. She doesn't. She does not hold herself accountable right, 386 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 2: and it's not clear who she is accountable to, right. 387 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 2: So the work the people always think about, I love 388 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 2: black people, and I love black people, and I love 389 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 2: black people, but if you love someone, you have to 390 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 2: be accountable to them. Love without accountability is abused. That's 391 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 2: all it is. That Bell Hooks taught us this. Okay, 392 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 2: love with no accountability is a form of abuse. And 393 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 2: unfortunately a lot of people who have promoted her been 394 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: behind her, followed her, told everyone about her, thought she 395 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 2: was great now feel disrespected, disposed of, and abused by her. 396 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,479 Speaker 2: And I can't count myself in that because I released 397 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: her quite some time ago when she was doing the 398 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 2: whole anti black passport thing. That's a line for me. 399 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 2: I came from a place where that's the trigger for me. Also, 400 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 2: Jordan's is my favorite shoot, and I'm never gonna stop 401 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 2: buy at them. I didn't get a passport until I 402 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 2: was thirty two years old, but I had about over 403 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 2: two dozen pairs of Jordan's before then. You know why, 404 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 2: because I needed to have shoes on my feet. Right. 405 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 2: This is the language of people who use welfare policy 406 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 2: to ensure that folks don't have enough food to feed themselves. 407 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 2: It's the same language. It's the same dog whistley, right, 408 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 2: And so when people call her in, she has to 409 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 2: be able to listen and to hold that calling in 410 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: and to be accountable to them, because if she's not accountable, 411 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 2: this will continue happening. This is how it works, right. 412 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 2: And I can say this again, like you said, you 413 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 2: say some hot shit, I say some hot shit, right. 414 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 2: But if somebody comes to me and say, Jim, that 415 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: was a miss, I'm ana listen. I'll listen there's. 416 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: Something exactly yeah right, yeah, right. 417 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: There's something I say. I say what I said right 418 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 2: if it's reasoned right, if it's reasoned right, but if 419 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 2: it hurts black folk, absolutely not. I I have a duty, 420 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 2: in my opinion, to stand in the gap for all 421 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: black people, no matter what they come from, no matter 422 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 2: who they are, And that is something that is at 423 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 2: the center of my work, and it's just not clear 424 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 2: to a lot of people who was at the center 425 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 2: of Amanda's work at this point. 426 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: Thank you for that. You were one of the first 427 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: people that I text, you know when the Essence story broke, 428 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: because I had seen your posts and I was just like, 429 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: you know, because I am a person who will also 430 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: like hold myself to account. Did I go too far? 431 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: Did I say too much? 432 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 2: Like what? 433 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: And that is this the truth? Like all of those things, 434 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: Like as a person with a public platform, you know, 435 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,239 Speaker 1: there is accountability and responsibility that comes with that. And 436 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, am I treating her too harshly? 437 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: Am I criticizing her too much? Right? Because pop culture 438 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: is not is not my lane. But when I see 439 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: people who are in Hollywood then move into political spaces, 440 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: but then do so with a white so premise tint 441 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: in their lens and language. Then like, I do feel 442 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: like there that is the space for me to say, 443 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, like who is for? Like who is your 444 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: who is your audience? And like what is what is 445 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: the center? And what is the purpose that you were 446 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: moving from the space that you're moving from is it 447 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: of purpose outside of yourself? And so I think that 448 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: those distinctions are really important. And so I just I 449 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: thank you for breaking that down. I am so excited 450 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: for you. I am so excited for this book, folks. 451 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,719 Speaker 1: It is out now. Black women taught us. Go get it, 452 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: buy it for yourself, buy it for a friend. 453 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 2: You know. 454 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: It is beautiful, it is brilliant, and I just I 455 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: thank you so much for making the time for us 456 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: here at will kay Affen on your tour de force. 457 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 2: I appreciate it anytime, anytime for you. I love it here. 458 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: That is it for me today, dear friends, on woke 459 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: a f as always Power to the people and to 460 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.