1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: This episode contains content that may be disturbing to some listeners. 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Please check the show notes for more information. Disgraceland is 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: a production of Double Elvis. This is the story of 4 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: a killer, a contract killer, perhaps a killer who is 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: part of one of the most infamous murders of all time. 6 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: But it's also the story about that killer's son, an actor, 7 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson, an actor who made great films and great television, 8 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: an actor who was and is inspired by great music. 9 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: Unlike that music, I played few at the top of 10 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: the show that wasn't great music. That was a preset 11 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: loop from my melotron called Texas Book Colonoscopy MK One. 12 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: I played you that loop because I can't afford the 13 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 1: rights to Hot Stuff by Donna Summer. Hey, why would 14 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: I play you that specific slice of Somerville Girl Cheese? 15 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: Could I afford it? Because that was the number one 16 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: song in America on May ninth, nineteen seventy nine, And 17 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: that was the day that Judge John H. Wood was 18 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: gunned down in his driveway, an event that led to 19 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: a manhunt, a questionable conviction, and a major shift in 20 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: the way that Woody Harrelson would look at his father forever. 21 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: On this episode contract Killers, Assassinations, Fathers and Sons and 22 00:01:40,319 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson. I'm Jake Brennan and this is Disgraceland. April 23 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight, Houston, Texas. A red Cadillac convertible idled 24 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: on the side of a desolate road, blanketed in darkness. 25 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: Sandra Sue sat in the driver's seat. She was afraid 26 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: of what Chuck was going to do to her when 27 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: he got back. Chuck was outside behind the Cadillac with 28 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: the man they'd picked up near the brass bar. She 29 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: heard muffled voices over the purr of the engine. Chuck 30 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: was probably beating the piss out of the poor guy. 31 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: Sandra Sue put a hand to the spot where Chuck 32 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: hit her just minutes earlier, when she got the car 33 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: stuck in the mud. Chuck called her a stupid bitch 34 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: and slapped her across the face, and it stung like hell. 35 00:02:58,160 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: It wasn't the first time he hit her, and she 36 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be the last. Sadra Sue and Chuck hadn't 37 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: been together that long, a few months, half a year maybe. 38 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: She met him at a party. Six foot three, handsome, 39 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: his eyes were a cavernous blue impossibly big. They moved 40 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: in together two days after their first date. At first, 41 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: he was sweet, but his mood swung hard. He was 42 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: violent only a few months into the relationship. She contemplated 43 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: leaving him, but she was worried how he'd react. She 44 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: didn't want to take any chances. Chuck, on the other hand, 45 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: took chances all the time. He liked to gamble, and 46 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: though he wasn't very good at it, On a recent 47 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: trip to Vegas, Chuck won and lost five grand in 48 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: quick succession, which was not good because Chuck needed money 49 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: bad life or death bad. He didn't tell Sandra Sue 50 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: that he had debts, debts to people that you didn't 51 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,119 Speaker 1: want to be in debt to. He also didn't tell 52 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: Sandra Sue that he was married, that he had three 53 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: sons from an earlier marriage, or that he had been 54 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: arrested for everything from drunk driving to armed robbery, or 55 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: that he carried around business cards that advertised his under 56 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: the table services, cards that read wars fought, revolutions, started, assassinations, 57 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: plotted governments, run uprisings, quelled women, seduced tiger's, tamed bars, 58 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: emptied orgies, organized Sandra Sue did have her suspicions. One night, 59 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: after Chuck had taken out his anger on her yet again, 60 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: she asked him if you hurt people for a living. 61 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: Chuck's response, of course. On this night, Chuck pulled Sandra 62 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: Sue into his world for the first time. He needed 63 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: her help. He said that a carpet salesman named alan 64 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: Berg had cheated a man out of some money, and 65 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: that Chuck had been hired to convince alan Berg to 66 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: pay it back. Chuck would get fifteen hundred dollars for 67 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: his assistance. So Chuck and Sandra Sue call Allen tell 68 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: him that she had seen him around town, thought he 69 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: was cute, and asked if he wanted to eat her 70 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: down at the Brass Jug. She seductively told him what 71 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: she'd do to him with her mouth. When they met up, 72 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: alan Berg couldn't say no. Alan Berg also couldn't say 73 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: no to getting inside the Cadillac when it pulled up 74 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: hastily outside the Brass Jug where he was waiting like 75 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: a rude. He couldn't say no because Chuck jumped from 76 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: the vehicle before it even came to a screeching halt 77 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: and shoved a twenty five caliber pistol in Alan's face. 78 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: Get in the back, Chuck told him. Chuck got in 79 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: next to him and then told Sandra Sue to drive. 80 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: She floored it. Chuck tied Alan's hands in front of 81 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: his body, and then he had Sandra Sue pulled the 82 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: car over on the outskirts of Houston. When he took 83 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: Alan out of the car and around the back by 84 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: the trunk. And now Sandra Sue waited. She was nervous, 85 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: she was shaking. She figured that Chuck's pistol was just 86 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: for show, a tactic he used to convince these deadbeats 87 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: to pay what was owed to the people who hired Chuck. 88 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: Chuck was a scary motherfucker when he wanted to be, 89 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: so it probably wouldn't take much time to convince Alan. 90 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: Sandra Sue's heart leaped to her throat. She could hardly breathe. 91 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: She stepped out of the Cadillac and ran back to 92 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: the trunk. Chuck's pistol was smoking. Alan was faced down 93 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: on the ground and there was blood all over Chuck's shirt. 94 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: Sandra Sue's entire body shook. Chuck lifted the pistol and 95 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: aimed it at her get back in the car. I 96 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: swear to Christy'll do the scene to you. Sandra Sue 97 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: hadn't signed up for kidnapping her murder, but she knew 98 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: exactly what would happen, or she didn't follow Chuck's instructions. 99 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: As she got back in the caddy, she watched as 100 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: Chuck dragged Alan's lifeless body off the road and into 101 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: the brush. He walked back to the caddy again and 102 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: pulled a shovel from the trunk, and then he walked 103 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: back to Alan's body and after a few minutes, he 104 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: hollered to Sandra Sue he needed her again. Sandra Sue 105 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: got out of the car and walked over to where 106 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: a Chuck was trying to dig into the ground. He 107 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: had taken off his coat and tie. He brought the 108 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: shovel down on the ground, but the dirt was like concrete. 109 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: God damn it, this wasn't going to work. And Sandra 110 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: Sue heard a wet, eerie sound coming from the ground. 111 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: She looked down and something low, muffled, pitiful. It was 112 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: Alan Berg. Gurgling noises were coming from his mouth. She 113 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: asked Chuck what was happening. Chuck looked down at the 114 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: man he thought he'd just killed. God damn it, he said, 115 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna have to choke him. Sandra Sue felt 116 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: like she was going to be sick. Chuck handed to 117 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: the shovel and told her to take it back to 118 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: the car. He took the rope he had tied around 119 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: Alan's hands and wound it around Alan's neck, sinched it 120 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,679 Speaker 1: up deathly tight, and then used it to drag Alan 121 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: back to the car, where he tossed the twice killed 122 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: body in the truck. Chuck looked at Sandra Sue. I'm driving, 123 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: he said. The two sat in silence as Chuck drove 124 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: the Cadillac south for miles to where there was water, 125 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: and that would be the easiest way to dump the body. 126 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: Fucked that shoveling shit, and they were far from Houston, 127 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: probably Galveston city lights received in the distance, Chuck spotted 128 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: a watery ditch. He pulled the car over, got out, 129 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: dumped Down's body in the water. Before he did, however, 130 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: he pulled a watch off the body's wrist, not because 131 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,119 Speaker 1: it was expensive, which it was, but because he needed 132 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: it as proof that he had fulfilled the contract. In 133 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: that contract was not to scare alan Berg into paying 134 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: his debt, like he had told saintra Sus, that contract 135 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: was to kill alan Berg. Chuck didn't give a fuck 136 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: about another man's debts. He had his own debts to pay. 137 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: Willy Harrelson was angry. They said he had stolen a purse. Bullshit. 138 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: He'd done nothing of the sort. They had no proof. 139 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: They were basing their accusations solely on his reputation. Sure 140 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: had gotten into trouble before. It was part of his 141 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: charm what he was lovable. But he was also a 142 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: bit of a scamp. But this is going too far. 143 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: Not only was he accused of a crime he didn't commit, 144 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,719 Speaker 1: now they were attacking him too, berating him, hitting him what. 145 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: He clenched his fists, he grit his teeth. He ran 146 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: from the room where he was being pummeled and persecuted 147 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: and into another room in the building, and the anger 148 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: just continued to build inside him. He felt like he 149 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: was going to explode. His fists were white knuckled instruments 150 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: of vengeance. He just wanted to fucking hit something. So 151 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: the first window he came to, he shattered. His bald 152 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: up fist went right through it, and he found another 153 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: window and broke that one too. But the building he 154 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: was single handedly destroying wasn't just any building. It was 155 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: an elementary school. The person accusing him of theft and 156 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: then beating on him was a teacher. Woody Harrelson was 157 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: just a first grader. It wasn't the first time Woody's 158 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: tantrum's gonna expelled from school. The first time was a 159 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: few years earlier in nursery school. As a kid, what 160 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: he was quick to anger his temper was just about 161 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 1: the size of his home state and just about his 162 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: hot too. He was born in Midland, Texas, in nineteen 163 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: sixty one to parents who were polar opposites. His mother, Diane, 164 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: was a strict Presbyterian and a positive role model who 165 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: instilled the old fashioned values of treating others the way 166 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: he would like to be treated what He's father, Charles, 167 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: on the other hand, was a troublemaker. He always seemed 168 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: to be in and out of a jam, in and 169 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: out of trouble with the law. As far as what 170 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,599 Speaker 1: he could remember. His parents split up when he was 171 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: only five. His father was rarely around as the years 172 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: went on, the memories of Texas faded along with those 173 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 1: of his absent dad. In nineteen sixty eight, what he 174 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: moved with his mother and two brothers to his mother's 175 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: hometown of Lebanon, Ohio. He tried to be good, try 176 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: to keep his juvenile record from getting any more checkered 177 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: than it already was. But he was his father's son 178 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: after all, which meant there was an element of trouble 179 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: that was simply coded into his DNA. He often wondered 180 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: if he would ever see his father again. His mother 181 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: was amazing, no doubt, doing the single parenting and all, 182 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: but would He couldn't help but think that maybe his 183 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: attitude would be better if his dad were here. He 184 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: also wondered what his dad was doing at this very moment, 185 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: but why he was doing whatever he was doing, far 186 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: removed from his own flesh and blood, as if Woody 187 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: and his brothers didn't even exist, And thoughts like those 188 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: made him really angry. Chuck sat on the bed of 189 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: a motel room with Sandra Sue by his side, the 190 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: lights from the Houston Astrodome shown through the dirty window. 191 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: It had been two days since Chuck murdered Alan Berg 192 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: and dumped the body in a watery ditch out near Galveston. 193 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: Two days. That's all it took for Chuck to blow through. 194 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: The money had been paid, all fifteen hundred dollars, and 195 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: he didn't use a cent to pay off any of 196 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: the debts that he owed, which meant he had yet 197 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: to unfuck himself in the bad debts department. Once again. 198 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: He needed cash fast, which meant he needed another job. 199 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: So he found one, one that didn't require any killing, 200 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: not that Chuck minded killing, but this one would be easy, 201 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: or so he thought. There was a knock the motel 202 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: room door. In walked Pete Scamarto, a Texas grain broker. 203 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: Chuck didn't know what the fuck a grain broker was, 204 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: but he did know that it was essentially a front 205 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: for Scarmato's other business. Heroin. Scamaro handed Chuck of condom 206 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: filled with Mexican smack. If Chuck could sell it, they'd 207 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: split the profits, and there was plenty more where that 208 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: came from. Chuck agreed could be a nice little cash cop. 209 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: Weeks later, Chuck still had the same rubber filled with 210 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: the same heroin. No one wanted it. Desperate, he called 211 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: a contact and into City who convinced Chuck to bring 212 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: the dope to the heart of America where he could 213 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: easily find a buyer. But Chuck found no buyers in 214 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: Kansas City. In fact, the first person he talked to 215 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: when he rolled into town was a cop. He was 216 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: pulled over the minute he hit city limits. Someone sold 217 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: him out. Cops even had a search warrant for his car. 218 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: Twelve fucking hours from Houston to KC and this is 219 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: what he got for. Chuck stepped out of the car 220 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: with the condo stuffed deep in his jean's pocket. But 221 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: while the cops poked around the car, he waited for 222 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: the right moments and pulled a condom out of his 223 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: pocket and drop it unnoticed down a sewer train or 224 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: on the curve. It didn't matter. The police found a 225 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: sawd off shotgun in the glove box and charged Chuck 226 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: with a federal firearms violation. He did not passco did 227 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: not collect money for selling junk. He went straight to jail. 228 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 1: He posted bail that night, thanks to the same friend 229 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: who summoned him to Kansas City in the first place. 230 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: But he wasn't in the clear yet. Now he had 231 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: to go back to hughesn't tell Pete Scamarado that he'd 232 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: dropped the heroin in the sewer while the cops searched 233 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 1: his car. Scarmardo was beyond pissed. Thousands of dollars in 234 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: Mexican heroin down the fucking drain literally. Chuck owed him 235 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: big time. But Chuck didn't have any money, no matter, 236 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: he had the ability to do the dirty work that 237 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: others didn't have the stomach for. Scarmardo had something that 238 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: would get Chuck's hands, real fucking dirty. Pete Scamardo had 239 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: a partner in the green business, Samdgillia Junior. Scarmardo wanted 240 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: him gone. If Dagilia was out of the picture, then 241 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: the company would collect one hundred thousand dollars in life insurance. 242 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: Scamardo could use half of it to pay off the 243 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: business loans, and the other half, well, don't worry about 244 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: what he did with the other half. Scaramardo offered Chuck 245 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: two grand to put a bullet into Guilia's head. Chuck 246 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: left Sandra su back home this time, and Jerry Watkins 247 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: and Next Cohn, just out of prison, who Chuck had 248 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: recently met, went along for the rock and they drove 249 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: way the fuck out to McCowan Texas so far south 250 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: that there were practically in another country. Chuck told Jerry 251 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: to wait in the car. He took his twenty five 252 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: caliber pistol from the glove box. He thought about the 253 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: two grand. It wasn't enough, It was never enough. You 254 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: could start to make a dent on some of the debts, 255 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: he owed, he just had to resist the urge this time. 256 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: Don't piss it all away on poker and booze. Easier 257 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: said than done. Suddenly the Ghilia appeared. It was dark, 258 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: but Chuck could see him walking near a small shack alone. 259 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: Daghilia could hardly make out Chuck as he made his 260 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: quick approach, but he saw Chuck's eyes, big blue, like 261 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: tidal pools that spun in the shadows and swallowed the 262 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: real estate of Chuck's face. Chuck trained the pistol onto Gilia. 263 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: He motioned to the shack inside. Now Chuck fawled to Ghilia. 264 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: Inside the little shack. He told Dagilia to get on 265 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: his knees, and the grain broker was shaking from his 266 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: head to his feet. He tried to beg for his life, 267 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: but he just stuttered through spittle panic breaths. Chuck repeated 268 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: the instruction on your fucking knees now, Aguilia dropped to 269 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: his knees with a thud in the plywood dug into 270 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: his skin. He looked up at Chuck, six foot three, 271 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: towering over him. Even though the barrel of the pistol 272 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: was inches from his face, all the Ghillia could see 273 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: were Chuck's blue eyes lurking behind it. Those eyes hypnotized him. 274 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: Aguilia didn't even notice that Chuck had moved the pistol 275 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: even closer to his face and had begun to squeeze 276 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: the trigger. Inside the car, Jerry heard the gunshot. He 277 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: turned the ignition and I redy call her argued politics 278 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: with a combative host on the AM radio, and seconds 279 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: later Chuck emerged from the shack. He got back in 280 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: the car and what the fuck was Jerry listening to 281 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: talk radio? It was a long drive back to Houston 282 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: and this shit was going to board chop the tears. 283 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: He told Jerry to drive and then grabbed the tuner 284 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: with his fingers. 285 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 2: And change the channel, breaking news to report the night 286 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: out of Texas. Charles by Harrilson has been found Jumpy 287 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: for the nineteen sixty eight murder of Samuel and Degallia Junior. 288 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 2: He has been sentenced to fifteen. 289 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: Years in prison for Woody Harrelson turned the car radio up, 290 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: leaned his head in toward the speaker. Did he just 291 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: hear what he thought he heard? Charles V. Harrelson? Could 292 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: it be? How many Charles V. Harrelson's were there in 293 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: the world? Nah, it couldn't It couldn't be. His father 294 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: may have been a dead beat to his family, or 295 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: just a faded memory to Woody, But he wasn't a killer, right. 296 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: Woody looked out the window and searched the parking lot 297 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: for his mom's friend, the one who had picked him 298 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: up from school to bring him home. She had stopped 299 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: to run an errand and left him alone in the car. 300 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: Then the report and the radio amplified just how alone 301 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: he fell. His stomach began to turn. He dug his 302 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: fingers into his palms and made a fist. He knew 303 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: something wasn't right. He knew deep down that something was 304 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: horribly wrong. He didn't know if he should be sad 305 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: or if he should be angry, And sometimes he couldn't 306 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: tell the difference between the two. It was nineteen seventy three, Lebanon, Ohio. 307 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson was twelve years old. It had been years 308 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: since he'd heard from his father, let alone seen him. Regardless, 309 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: he felt a connection a son to a father. Maybe 310 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: it wasn't actually there, but he felt it. He wanted 311 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: to feel. It could be wishful thinking. Woody and Charles 312 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: were both born on the same day, July twenty third. 313 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: Wood He thought about how someone once told him that 314 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: the Japanese had this belief that if a son was 315 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: born on his father's birthday, he wasn't like his father, 316 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: he was his father. Wild to think somewhere out there 317 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: there was a man who was just like him, only 318 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: a little older. But if they were exactly alike, and 319 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: if Charles V. Harrelson was in fact a convicted murderer, 320 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: and what did that say about Woody? His fist got tighter. 321 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: He felt sick. He wasn't paying attention. When the driver's 322 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 1: side door opened, he jumped. His mother's friend got back 323 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: in the car. She looked over at him and wood 324 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: He looked like he was in shock. She asked him 325 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: what had happened? Was he all right? Wood He paused 326 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: to collect his thoughts and then said, what do you 327 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: know about my father. We'll be right back after this. 328 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: We were were. The blessing in the curse of playing 329 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: a memorable TV character over the course of many seasons 330 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: in many years is that the character never leaves you. 331 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: Just ask Peter Falk. He starred in amazing films by 332 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: a tours like John Cassavettis and Vim Venders, but to 333 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: most he'll always be Colombo, Tom Selleck will always be 334 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: Magnum p I, George Reeves, Christopher Reeves Superman both to 335 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: the end, and after eight years playing a country bumpkin 336 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: bar back on Cheers, Woody Harrelson could have very easily 337 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: been Woody Boyd the rest of his life. Instead, when 338 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: the long running NBC sitcom wound down in the early 339 00:19:55,480 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, Woody pursued film roles that aggressively played against tight. 340 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: He played a street hustler on the half court next 341 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: to Wesley Snipes and White Men Can't Jump. He let 342 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: Robert Redford sleep with his wife for a million dollars 343 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: in a decent proposal, and then he obliterated any remaining 344 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: trace of Woody Boyd with a chilling performance as a 345 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: natural born killer in Oliver Stone's controversial and hyper violent 346 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four film. It was a role that was 347 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: as different from Woody Boyd as Kirsty Ally was from 348 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: Shelley Long. I thought he was sort of a psychostone 349 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: said at the time when asked about the left field 350 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,479 Speaker 1: casting choice. That's why I liked him. His eyes were 351 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: kind of blue and blank. Woody Harrelson had his father's 352 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: eyes naturally, even Viada only had the opportunity to look 353 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: into his father's eyes a handful of times. In his 354 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: entire life, Charles Harrelson was doing hard time, not for 355 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: the murder of carpet salesman Alan Berg, for which he 356 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: was acquitted in nineteen seventy and not for the murder 357 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: of grainbroker Sam Deguillia Junior, the one that wood he 358 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: heard about on a cart radio when he was a kid, 359 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: for which Charles curt five years of a fifteen year sentence. 360 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: They let him out in nineteen seventy eight on account 361 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: of good behavior. It only took a few years for 362 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: Charles's behavior to go from good to bad again, and 363 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: once again it was behind bars, and this time it 364 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: looked like he was there to stay. The fate of 365 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: Charles Harrilson weighed heavily on Woody Harrelson's mind in nineteen 366 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,719 Speaker 1: ninety seven when he appeared on Barbara walters annual pre 367 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 1: Oscars television special Wood. He was nominated that year for 368 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: his first Academy Award for another type breaking role, this 369 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: one as the real life head honcho of Hustler magazine 370 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: and the People versus Lotry Flint. What he was thinking 371 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: of his father again, because Barbara Walters had brought him up, 372 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: it's fairly well known. Walters said, if anybody's read anything 373 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: about you or talked with you that your father went 374 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: off to prison convicted of murder, and tell me how 375 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: you feel today and what the story is today. What 376 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: he paused and took a deep breath. The last thing 377 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: anyone wanted to discuss was how their father was a 378 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: convicted murderer. It was a sensitive subject. And even though 379 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: Charles Harrelson was who he was, a hitman, a non 380 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: presence in his family's life, Wood he wasn't entirely convinced 381 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: that he was guilty of his most recent crime. Like 382 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: when Wood he was in first grade and a teacher 383 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: blamed him for theft just because he had that reputation, 384 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: would He struggled to find a way to collect his 385 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: thoughts coherently. Well, he is in prison right now for 386 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: the killing of a federal judge, which, well, I don't 387 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: think it was a fair trial, especially because the guy 388 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: who supposedly hired my father to commit the murder was 389 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: later acquitted on a retrial. Barbara Walters doubled down. Woody, 390 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: do you think your father is innocent. I'm not saying 391 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: my father's a saint wood, he replied, but I think 392 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: he's innocent to that one. That one would be the 393 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine assassination of federal Judge John H. Wood, 394 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 1: a crime for which Charles Harrelson was now serving two 395 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: life sentences. Seventeen years before interview with Barbara Walters. In 396 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: September of nineteen eighty, Charles was arrested after a six 397 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: hour standoff with police in Texas near the Mexican border. 398 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: He was in a state of cocaine induced paranoia. He 399 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: thought the corvette he was driving was bugged, so he 400 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: pulled it over and shot it up. This caught the 401 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: attention of the authorities, who had already pegged Charles's suspect 402 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: numero uno in the murder of Judge wood The search 403 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: for Charles lasted more than a year and cost upwards 404 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: of twelve million dollars, one of the largest federal man 405 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: hunts in history. The prosecution later claimed that Charles was 406 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: paid two hundred and fifty thousand dollars from a Texan 407 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: drug lord facing a life sentence for drug smuggling to 408 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: quietly get rid of the judge, who had a reputation 409 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: for harsh sentences. But when police found Charles on the 410 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: side of the road, he was anything but quiet. He 411 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: was ranting and raving. He was waving a gun around. 412 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: He stuck the gun under his chin and threatened to 413 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: blow his own brains out, and this went on for hours. 414 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: During that time, Charles admitted to committing murder, but not 415 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: just the murder of a judge. Charles Harrelson also confessed 416 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Hold up, 417 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: you heard that right. Woody Harrelson's father, contract killer in 418 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: the subject of a massive federal manhunt, called a coked 419 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: up audible during a six hour standoff with police and 420 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: admitted to killing jfk. After his arrest, the sober Charles 421 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: offered an explanation. At the same time, I said I 422 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: had killed the judge, I said I killed Kennedy, which 423 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: might give you an idea as to the state of 424 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: my mind at the time. Charles told a Dallas TV 425 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: station it was an effort to elongate my life. But 426 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: Charles's explanation didn't stop the elongation of conspiracy theories that 427 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: sprouted up around his roadside confession. One theory that has 428 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: gained traction over the years was that Charles was one 429 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 1: of three tramps arrested for vagrancy near the Texas school 430 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: Book Depository on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. The 431 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: tramp theory gave truthers pa pause. Was Charles Harrelson actually 432 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: present the day JFK was shot? Was he actually telling 433 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 1: the truth during that police stand off? It wasn't the 434 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: only crazy theory about Charles Harrelson's mysterious past. Back in 435 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, Barbara Walters asked Woody Harrelson about his 436 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: claim that his father was actually a CIA operative. Wood 437 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: He nodded his head. How did he know where was 438 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: the proof? Woody smiled and his head went from a 439 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: nod to a shake. Nah, see, I shouldn't get into 440 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: this right now, he said, This is where we're going 441 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: to get into trouble. Woody Harrelson knew trouble. He was 442 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: born on the same day as his troubled and troublesome father, 443 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: after all, which meant they weren't simply alike. They were 444 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: the same. But the trouble that wood he was facing 445 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: wasn't the kind you can simply chalk up to being 446 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: young and dumb. Not like that time when he was 447 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: twenty years old, jaywalking with a friend stopped by a cop. 448 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,719 Speaker 1: Wanted to see some id wood. He had his license 449 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: on him, but told the cop he didn't why, why 450 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: the fuck not. When the cop found out what he 451 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: was lying, he threw him up against a wall and wood. 452 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: He wriggled free and bolted why. He didn't know why, 453 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: It was just the reaction hardwired inside of him. Within minutes, 454 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: he was surrounded on the ground, kneeded the throat handcuffed. 455 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: They tossed him in the paddy wagon, which he did 456 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: sit in for a little while, But when the paddy 457 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: wagon made a stop to pick up some drunk and 458 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: disorderly kids in the back door, swing wide Wood he ran. 459 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: The handcuffs kind of made it more fun, honestly, and 460 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: he ran so hard he thought his chest would explode. 461 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: He heard the cops behind him, gaining their feet flat 462 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: and loud, their voices even louder, and Wood, he didn't 463 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: notice the car. It came from the right, out of nowhere, 464 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: directly in his path. His body hid it with a smack. 465 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: He felt the nose of the thing dent his ribs. 466 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: His body rolled over the hood, and then he hit 467 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: the pavement head first. And as he figured out a 468 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: way to use his cuffed hands to clutch his aching 469 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: head and his bruised ribs, it seemed like a whole 470 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: precinct stood over him, and the mace rained down and 471 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: burned his skin. Nah Wood, he was no longer twenty, 472 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: He was thirty six. He had grown up troubles now, like, 473 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: how does his son reconcile with a father who was 474 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: not only absent, but was objectively not a good person 475 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 1: at all? What do you do with all this anger 476 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: you feel, the kind you've carried around with you since 477 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: you were a little kid. You know better than to 478 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: let it out, let it have a voice, but it's 479 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 1: a part of you, and just who are you and 480 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: why do you feel like you have no control over 481 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: the person you've become. In nineteen ninety five, Charles Harrelson 482 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 1: attempted to escape from the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary, where he 483 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: was serving two life sentences for the assassination of Judge 484 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: John H. Wood. He crafted a ladder out a rope 485 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: and hoisted himself over a wall. A guard caught him 486 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: in the middle of his great escape and fired off 487 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: a warning shot. Charles put his hands in the air 488 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: and surrendered to his fate. That fate was an immediate 489 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: transfer to the United States Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colorado, 490 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: a supermax prison that was notoriously escape proof. With no 491 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: chance of busting out of a supermax joint, Charles instead 492 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: found refuge in isolation. Besides, what the hell did he 493 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: think he was going to do on the outside? Kill 494 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: again for money and then blow it all gambling again, 495 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: and then repeat the cycle until the debts he would 496 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: eventually got him killed On the inside, he had no 497 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: other debts to settle besides the one he was paying 498 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: for with the remaining years of his life. He had 499 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: no contracts left to carry out. Silence is wonderful, he 500 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 1: wrote in a letter to a friend. Being left alone 501 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: is great. Nobody bothers me. Two thousand and two, London. 502 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson just wanted some of that wonderful silence and 503 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: to be left alone. As he sat in the back 504 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: of a taxi in Piccadilly Square a few days earlier. 505 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: He chose not to be alone. Big fucking mistake. He 506 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: wound up in a compromising situation with three other women. 507 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: A paparazzo sold a steamy photo of the encounter to 508 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: a UK tabloid. Wood He's lapse in judgment nearly cost 509 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: him his relationship with his longtime girlfriend. Had suited to 510 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: be wife. She forgave him, but he knew he'd let 511 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: her down. He let himself down? And what was he doing? 512 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: Who the hell was he was? He? Woody boy, blissfully 513 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: unaware of the double entandras flying around and behind the 514 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: bar or cheers, the mescalin popping psychopath from natural born Killers, 515 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: the bowler with the prosthetic hand and kingpin. What was 516 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: he laid back? Texas boy who sang the praises of 517 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: all things hemp and got high with Willie Nelson on 518 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: his tour bus. And maybe he was all of those things, 519 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: but he hoped he was also a good son. His 520 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: mother told him he was his entire life. She told 521 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: him so, even when he got himself kicked out of school, 522 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: but he lacked the validation from his dad, and he 523 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: couldn't even help his dad out. And no matter how 524 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: I already tried. He did help in small ways, like 525 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: when he served as a proxy for Charles in nineteen 526 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: eighty seven so that he could get remarried from behind bars, 527 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,719 Speaker 1: but his larger efforts failed. He spent millions of dollars 528 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: trying to get Charles a new trial. He even found 529 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: a sympathetic judge, but after the judge and Woody respotted 530 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: playing a spur of the moment game of pickup basketball, 531 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: the judge removed himself over concerned that the friendly match 532 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: would be seen as biased. Everything fell apart after that, 533 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: which sucked because despite who Charles was and what he 534 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: had done, there were things that didn't sit right with 535 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: Woody about this conviction. The judge who presided over his 536 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: original trial was allegedly a pallbearer. A judge Woods's funeral 537 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: talk about bias. He was also said that the recording 538 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: on which Charles was fingered as the hired hitman, was 539 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: obtained illegally. Wood He felt the back seat did the 540 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: taxi gets small? He told the cabby to stop. He 541 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: wanted a bail and the cabby told Woody to hang on. 542 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,479 Speaker 1: And they were in the middle of four LANs traffic 543 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: and he had to pull over to the side of 544 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: the road first. Nah what he wanted out now. He 545 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: tried to open the door, but it was locked, and 546 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: the cabby was yelling at him to hold on, and 547 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: when he yelled back, he tried the door handle again, 548 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: still locked, and the interior the taxi swallowed him. When 549 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: his heart rate doubled, he kicked at the door and 550 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: the taxi swerved as the cabby panicked. But wood he 551 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: kicked the door again that it buckled and one more 552 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: kick would do it. He thrust his foot forward again 553 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: the door swung open or when he jumped out into 554 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: the bust in London night, the cabby followed in hot pursuit. 555 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: So much for being left alone and what he ran. 556 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: He held another taxi and jumped in, and the taxi 557 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: with the broken door was right behind him. Soon other 558 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: vehicles joined the chase, a police car and then another, 559 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: then another, and six London police cars in total, lights 560 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: flashing and sirens wailing. The distinctly European sirens sounds so 561 00:31:53,240 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: frustratingly foreign. Fifteen years later, in twenty seventeen, a decade 562 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: after Charles Harrelson died of a heart attack while still 563 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: in Supermac's lock up, Woody Harrelson used the true story 564 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: of the night he led police on a chase and 565 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: then spent in a London jail as the basis for 566 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: a dark comedy called Lost in London. Turning the self 567 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: described worst night of his life into a cathartic film 568 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: project was an exercise in learning who he had been 569 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: in the past and who he wanted to become, someone 570 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: better than before he could use the future to make 571 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: up for the past and to make up for any 572 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: past disgrace. I'm Jake Brennan in this his Disgraceland. All right, 573 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: thanks for checking out this episode of Disgraceland. I hope 574 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: you guys dug it. This week's question of the week 575 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: is who do you think killed JFK And why was 576 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: it Woody's dad? If not, who was what are your 577 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. I want to know. I don't care how 578 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: outlandis day are. Hit me up, let me know six 579 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: one seven nine h six six six three eight, leave 580 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: me a voicemail, send me a text. We'll get into 581 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: it in the after party. Let me know. You can 582 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: also reach me at disgracelampod as well on Instagram, X 583 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: and Facebook. Leave a review for the show on Apple 584 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: Podcasts or Spotify and win some free merch All right, 585 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: here come some credits. Disgraceland was created by Yours Truly 586 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: and is produced in partnership with Double Elvis. 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