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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Thursday, August twenty first,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Lyttleton. I am

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Speaker 1: co editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm

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Speaker 1: in LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters

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Speaker 1: around the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we talked to Jazz Tankke, Variety's Senior artisans editor, about

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Speaker 1: fifty years of visual effects wizardry from Industrial Light and Magic.

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Speaker 1: TV critic Alison Hermann explains why she fell so hard

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Speaker 1: for the new Netflix animated series Long Story Short. It

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Speaker 1: hails from BoJack Horseman's dad, Rafael Bob Waksburg. Tatyana Siegel

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Speaker 1: gives us a preview of the final episode of her

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Speaker 1: Variety Confidential podcast series on the life and legacy of

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Speaker 1: River Phoenix. But before we get to that, here are

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Speaker 1: a few headlin just in this morning that you need

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Speaker 1: to know. Here's a bulletin from the Fab four. The Beatles'

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Speaker 1: anthology documentary series that aired as an event on ABC

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago, is coming to Disney Plus. On November

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Speaker 1: twenty sixth, Don Cheadle and Io Adebris will make their

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Speaker 1: Broadway debuts in Proof. David Auburn's Tony winning play returns

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Speaker 1: to the Mainstem next March and will be directed by

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Speaker 1: Thomas Kale. Variety's recent cover star Tremmel Tillman has a

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Speaker 1: high profile new gig. He's joined Tom Holland and Zendeia

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Speaker 1: in the cast of Spider Man Brand New Day coming

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Speaker 1: next year from Sony and Marvel. Janelle James of Abbot

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Speaker 1: Elementary is having a moment. She's got a lot to

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Speaker 1: say about the biz and the show. Don't miss her

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Speaker 1: sit down interview with Faridy's Clayton Davis. All these stories

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Speaker 1: and so much more can be found on vriday dot

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Speaker 1: com right now. Now we turn to conversations with Friday

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Speaker 1: journalists about news and trends in show business. Jazz Timeke

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Speaker 1: talks about what makes Industrial Light and Magic stand apart

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Speaker 1: in the highly competitive field of visual effects. The shop,

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Speaker 1: founded half a century ago by George Lucas, has maintained

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Speaker 1: its edge. It's also maintained its autonomy in the years

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Speaker 1: since it was acquired by Disney as part of the

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Speaker 1: lucasfilm deal in twenty twelve. Before we talk to Jazz,

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Speaker 1: let's hear a clip of George Lucas, Ron Howard and

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Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg talking about the company's influence in the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two Disney Plus series. Light and magic.

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Speaker 2: Visual effects create the magic that makes people want to

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Speaker 2: go to the movies.

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Speaker 1: Movies are special effects.

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Speaker 2: We start with an empty frame, anything is possible.

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Speaker 1: As audiences see through the illusion, the bar just raises,

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Speaker 1: how do we do this now?

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Speaker 2: How do we make this look great?

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Speaker 3: I leave it to the genius.

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Speaker 1: Of a dim Jazz tank A. Thanks for joining me.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me that Jazz.

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Speaker 1: You did a deep dive into the world of industrial

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Speaker 1: light and magic. Now name in visual effects in the

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Speaker 1: entertainment industry for fifty years five zero. That is an

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Speaker 1: incredible run for any company, let alone a company in

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Speaker 1: the hyper competitive world of visual effects. Big picture, what

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Speaker 1: is it that makes ILM stand apart all these years later?

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Speaker 4: So fifty years, what they have done is they have

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Speaker 4: continued to push the envelope with their groundbreaking visual effects innovations. So,

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Speaker 4: going right back to Star Wars, right up to the

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Speaker 4: t one thousand and terminator to the Tyrannosaurus Rex in

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Speaker 4: Jurassic Park, and again the Tarrannosaurus Rex and Jurassic World

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Speaker 4: rebirth that we just saw this past summer.

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Speaker 1: That was a heck of a dino.

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Speaker 4: They just continue to be innovative in all their creations.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Industrial Lite Magic ILM is also synonymous with

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Speaker 1: one George Lucas. George Lucas founded it in the pre

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Speaker 1: Star Wars era, but it came into its own with

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Speaker 1: that little picture that he made a mark with in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven. Did you get the sense from talking

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Speaker 1: to people that his shadow still looms large over their efforts?

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Speaker 4: One hundred percent. Everybody who I've spoken with at ILM

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Speaker 4: over the years always credits George Lucas and that they

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Speaker 4: would not be here without his desire to create something

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Speaker 4: so different. So fifty years later, plits hard to imagine

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Speaker 4: a world without the visual effects that exist in Star Wars.

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Speaker 4: And beyond that, we all.

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Speaker 1: Know the basic story, which was nobody bought his vision.

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Speaker 1: He said I'm going to do it myself. In my

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Speaker 1: Marine County studio, you could see him carving out the

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Speaker 1: little miniatures of the Star Wars spaceships and all of that.

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Speaker 1: As we've been talking here, I think the fact that

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Speaker 1: ILM is not in Hollywood. It's in the realm of

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Speaker 1: Silicon Valley, so all that tech is definitely in the ether.

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Speaker 4: They're based up in the Marin County area, but they

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Speaker 4: also have VFX artists all over the world. To your point,

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Speaker 4: there is something there about them being so close to

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Speaker 4: tech and wanting to be at the forefront of immersive

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Speaker 4: technology as we move into that area.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything that you came away with in terms

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Speaker 1: of the company culture, what it's like to work for ILM.

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Speaker 4: I think from Janet Lieuhin is a senior vice president,

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Speaker 4: general manager and head of ILM, right through to John

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Speaker 4: Now who's a visual effects supervisor, there is so much

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Speaker 4: passion for what they do that they stay there. They've

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Speaker 4: been there twenty years, thirty years. They love what they do,

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Speaker 4: and that is what I took away from Janet. I

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Speaker 4: take that away from John, I take that away from

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Speaker 4: the people, the sound people that I've worked with there.

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Speaker 4: It is a passion for what they do and changing

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Speaker 4: the way audiences experience movies because of what they doing.

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Speaker 4: The ILM, and.

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Speaker 1: Let's not forget of course, Pixar was an outgrowth of

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Speaker 1: the nexus of Lucasfilm and ILM way back in the

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Speaker 1: eighties before Steve Jobs bought it. The concentric circles of

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Speaker 1: George Lucas are intense. What is the next frontier or

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Speaker 1: the next big project they're tackling.

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Speaker 4: They did abb A Voyage, which is a holographics show

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Speaker 4: in the UK, and they've also been working with bands

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Speaker 4: at the Sphere and their sixteen K screen, So I

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Speaker 4: think that's definitely their next move, moving into the immersive

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Speaker 4: brand and being innovative with this new technology.

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Speaker 1: Well, they've been wowing us for a half a century. Jazz,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for bringing us a glimpse of

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Speaker 1: this world.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having me again, Cynthia.

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Speaker 1: Now. TV critic Alison Hermann joins to explain why she

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Speaker 1: gave Netflix's new animated series Long Story Short the coveted

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Speaker 1: Variety critics pick seale of approval. Alison Herman, one of

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Speaker 1: Variety's two terrific TV critics. Thanks for joining me. Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for having me, Alison. I couldn't help but

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Speaker 1: notice that the new Netflix animated comedy Long Story Short

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Speaker 1: got one of the coveted Green Circular critics pick badges

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Speaker 1: from your review. Tell me what was it about this

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Speaker 1: show that stood out to you.

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Speaker 3: I should probably start by saying I was a huge

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Speaker 3: fan of the creator's previous show. The creator is Raphael

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Speaker 3: Bob Wacksburg, and he's probably best known for creating BoJack Horseman,

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Speaker 3: which was a very early success in the adult animated

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Speaker 3: comedy space for Netflix. People who listen to this podcast

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Speaker 3: will probably love the show because it's the most insidery

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Speaker 3: Hollywood show that's like ever existed. I've been missing that

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Speaker 3: voice for a while. And long story short is a

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Speaker 3: different show. It is a much more grounded show about

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Speaker 3: a Jewish family in the San Francisco Bay area, but

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Speaker 3: it also has that mix that BoJack so nailed of

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Speaker 3: total silliness and absurdity and cleverness, but also this ability

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Speaker 3: to just speak to really fundamental aspects of the human experience.

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Speaker 3: And the way those two connect with each other means

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Speaker 3: that it's very easy to get kind of like blindsided,

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Speaker 3: like your defenses are down, you're laughing, and then all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden you're like, oh my god, how am

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Speaker 3: I crying? And I really love this show because it

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Speaker 3: preserves that very delicate balance, as we.

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Speaker 1: Know that the last couple of years have been horrendous.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to the resurgence of anti Semitism, does

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Speaker 1: it get into hard stuff.

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Speaker 3: It gets into hard stuff. It actually does not get

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Speaker 3: into specifically what we're talking about. So the timeline of

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Speaker 3: the show only goes as recently as twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 3: which is a deliberate choice, which means you don't get

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Speaker 3: into October seventh, you don't get into larger world events,

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Speaker 3: you don't get into internal debates within the Jewish community

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Speaker 3: about the issues brought up by certain global conflicts. And

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Speaker 3: I thought that was a very interesting decision because it

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Speaker 3: actually frees up space in the show to talk about Judaism.

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Speaker 3: It feels like a very internal conversation. I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of people who are not Jewish will relate to

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Speaker 3: and enjoy the show, But as a Jewish person myself,

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Speaker 3: I found it incredibly moving the way the show portrays.

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Speaker 3: For example, the observance of young Key Poor comes up

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Speaker 3: in the show, and instead of joking about fasting and

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Speaker 3: being hungry and you guilt tripping and stereotypes, it's very

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Speaker 3: much about what it means to participate in a day

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Speaker 3: of atonement, and so I thought it was very interesting

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Speaker 3: that the show arguably sidesteps some issues, although it already

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Speaker 3: has a season two so it could very well get

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Speaker 3: into them in the future, but it very clearly utilizes

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Speaker 3: that space freed up to talk about subjects that are

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Speaker 3: also very Jewish, and I think a lot of Jewish

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Speaker 3: people will almost be relieved to see the show focused

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Speaker 3: on other aspects of Judaism than the last two years.

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Speaker 1: Or the trauma of centuries. Tell me about the structure, though,

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Speaker 1: because your review does discuss that it's a very unusual

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Speaker 1: structure that really worked for you.

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Speaker 3: So the structure of the show is nonlinear. Instead of

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Speaker 3: telling a story that starts in twenty twenty and ends

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two, and this happens, and then that happens,

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Speaker 3: and then that happens. It's a hopscotching timeline. The furthest

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Speaker 3: back it goes. It's the mid twentieth century to show

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Speaker 3: one of the parents' childhoods, and of the most recent

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Speaker 3: it gets is twenty twenty two, So you come to

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Speaker 3: know these characters very gradually, and I actually thought it

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Speaker 3: was a very subtle and oblique way of shading in

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Speaker 3: these characters. I've really enjoyed the way it's gradual and

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Speaker 3: deliberate instead of just saying up front, here's who these

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Speaker 3: people are.

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Speaker 1: You really learn along with them when you're watching it.

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Speaker 1: Do you get the sense that they are using animation

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Speaker 1: of its best form? Here?

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Speaker 3: The first and most obvious use of animation is that

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Speaker 3: you can have the same voice actors who are all great.

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Speaker 3: It's Lisa Edelstein plays the mother and she's wonderful. Paul

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Speaker 3: Riser plays the father, and the kids are voiced by

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Speaker 3: Ben Feldman, Abby Jacobson and Max Greenfield. But they play

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Speaker 3: those characters at every age, and so you immediately understand

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Speaker 3: why it's animated. They live in Mountain View, which is

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Speaker 3: a real place. That's where Google is, and then slowly

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Speaker 3: you start to understand what the rules of this universe

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Speaker 3: are and raphaile Bob Blacksburg has this lovely, silly, pop

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Speaker 3: culture reference filled, pun laden sense of humor, and you

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Speaker 3: start to see him exercise that, and you start to

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Speaker 3: see goofy things happen, and the show sort of slowly

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Speaker 3: starts to teach you what kind of universe we're in

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Speaker 3: and what things are possible within it. Over time, which

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Speaker 3: is an approach I also really admired, and now I'm

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Speaker 3: very intrigued to watch it. And I was really encouraged

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Speaker 3: to see that Netflix ordered to season two already, and

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Speaker 3: I optimistic the show will get this same space to

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Speaker 3: find its audience. Well, Allison, thank you for doing all

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Speaker 3: the watching and telling us what's worth our time. You

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Speaker 3: know someone's got to do it.

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Speaker 1: And now we'll get a preview of the final installment

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Speaker 1: of Variety Confidential, The Life and Legacy of River Phoenix.

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Speaker 1: My great colleague Tatiana Siegel did her homework in researching

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Speaker 1: this series. We'll get her perspective on what made River

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Speaker 1: Phoenix so special during his short life. But first we'll

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Speaker 1: hear a clip from Tatiana's interview with director Nancy Savoka.

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Speaker 1: She worked with River on the nineteen ninety one coming

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Speaker 1: of age drama Dog Fight.

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Speaker 5: I think the fact that he was recognized so young

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Speaker 5: was well deserved, because he came in so young and

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Speaker 5: so aware of these characters. He had an ability to

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Speaker 5: assess people in psychology and situations.

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Speaker 3: In a very empathetic way.

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Speaker 5: He really did become them.

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Speaker 1: Tatiana, I'm a big fan of the Variety Confidential podcast

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Speaker 1: series that you produced on River Phoenix, The Life and Legacy.

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Speaker 1: It's been so good. Episode three is out now, Episode

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Speaker 1: four is coming out next week, Tatiana, give people a

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Speaker 1: sense of what you're going to hear in these last

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Speaker 1: two episodes.

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Speaker 2: Sure, so it's a very sad story in that we

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Speaker 2: had somebody who was the next Leonardo DiCaprio. Before Leonardo

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Speaker 2: DiCaprio was Leonardo DiCaprio. This was the most interesting Oscar

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Speaker 2: nominated as a teenager guy whose career was like only

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Speaker 2: going to go farther and farther and farther. And so

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Speaker 2: episode three the title is Gone too Soon, and we

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Speaker 2: spoke with Samantha Mathis, who was his girlfriend at the

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Speaker 2: time of his death and was with him at the

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Speaker 2: viper room when he very sadly passed away. She really

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Speaker 2: is She rarely talks about River Phoenix. I think that

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Speaker 2: hopefully she understood that we weren't just going for the

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Speaker 2: salacious drug overdose death, that we were really trying to

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Speaker 2: frame this podcast about what an incredible run he had

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Speaker 2: in just a few years. His brother, Joaquin Phoenix has

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Speaker 2: gone on to this wonderful, huge career Oscar Winner. But

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Speaker 2: let's not forget River Phoenix was the James Dean of

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Speaker 2: his generation.

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Speaker 1: I remember River Phoenix's rise, I remember the night that

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Speaker 1: he passed. What this podcast has done is really made

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Speaker 1: him human. The emphasis is on the life, it's not

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Speaker 1: on the trauma of his death. And you've got interviews

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Speaker 1: with Corey Feldman with below the line, people that worked

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Speaker 1: with him, people that he befriended, and you really track

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Speaker 1: the moments in his life where he went into the

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Speaker 1: substance abuse and the depression that would eventually take his

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Speaker 1: life and that. But in bringing to life what made

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Speaker 1: him such a standout actor, what made him earn an

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Speaker 1: Oscar nomination before he was twenty, that's the stuff that

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Speaker 1: has long been lost. Well, great work, folks. Go listen

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Speaker 1: to the first three. Get ready for the final episode

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Speaker 1: because it will be really heartbreaking. But it's credit to

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Speaker 1: you that we have told the life of River Phoenix

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Speaker 1: much more so than the death. Folks, listen up. Thank

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Speaker 1: you Tatiana, Oh thank you Cynthia. And finally, here's an

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Speaker 1: encore of a Daily Variety segment that first aired on

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Speaker 1: July seventeenth. I keep getting questions about my sign off

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Speaker 1: phrase styx Nick's hick picks. That tongue twister is a

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Speaker 1: famous example of the wacky Variety headlines that once defined

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Speaker 1: our beloved brand. Here's my explainer. The phrase I'm saying

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Speaker 1: is styx nick's hick picks. This is an odd to

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Speaker 1: Variety's history of running really, really irreverent and slangy headlines.

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Speaker 1: Styx sti cks is a slang term for rural areas,

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Speaker 1: nix nix means to reject, pick hi ck is a

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Speaker 1: slang term for a rural resident, and picks p i

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Speaker 1: x is variety slanguage for movies. Fun fact, the styx

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Speaker 1: nix hick picks headline ran ninety years ago today. It

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Speaker 1: was the banner headline on our July seventeenth, nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: five edition. It was the lead story that explained why

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Speaker 1: a series of big movies set in heartland areas had

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Speaker 1: flopped with moviegoers in those exact areas. Basically, the story

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Speaker 1: boils down to, don't pander to what you think the

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Speaker 1: audience wants. Just make good movies and they'll travel. It's

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Speaker 1: a lesson Hollywood is still grappling with. As we close

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Speaker 1: out today's episode. Here are a few things on the

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Speaker 1: horizon Variety will be in heavy festival mode from next

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Speaker 1: week through Labor Day. Venice Tell You Ride Toronto will

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Speaker 1: produce dedicated print dailies and digital dailies for Venice and Toronto.

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Speaker 1: All of these issues will be available for perusing on

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Speaker 1: Variety dot com. After Labor Day. We'll be cruising into

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Speaker 1: the Creative Arts Semi Awards on September sixth and seventh,

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Speaker 1: and some of us in LA are going to see

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Speaker 1: Oasis at the Rose Bowl that weekend. Daily Variety will

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Speaker 1: take next week off. We'll be back with a new

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Speaker 1: episode on September second. We greatly greatly appreciate all of

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Speaker 1: the listener feedback flowing in on this show. Please keep

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Speaker 1: it coming. Thanks for listening. This episode was written and

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Speaker 1: reported by me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Jazz Tankke,

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Speaker 1: Alison Herman, and Tatiana Siegel. It was edited by Aaron

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Speaker 1: Greenwald Stick's Nick Hick Picks. Please leave us a review

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Speaker 1: at the podcast platform of your choice, and please tune

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Speaker 1: back in on September second for another episode of Daily Variety.

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Speaker 5: M