WEBVTT - Historical Mythbusting Spectacular!

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of I Heart Radio

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<v Speaker 1>and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 1>One quick note before we begin. I wrote a book.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a novel called Anatomy, a love story about a

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<v Speaker 1>surgeon and a body snatcher in nineteen century Edinburgh. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you like Noble Blood, I have a feeling that

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<v Speaker 1>you're really really going to like it. I'm really proud

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<v Speaker 1>of it, and I'm never proud of anything that I

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<v Speaker 1>write anyway. It's available for preorder now, and preorder is

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<v Speaker 1>extremely weird, you know, to buy a book that's not

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<v Speaker 1>going to come out until February, but it's actually really

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<v Speaker 1>important for authors. My publisher is going to look at

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<v Speaker 1>those preorder numbers and make their decision based on them

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<v Speaker 1>about where to put the book and how many eyeballs

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<v Speaker 1>to put in front of. So if you're at all

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<v Speaker 1>interested in the book, it would mean the world to

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<v Speaker 1>me if you checked it out and maybe gave future

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<v Speaker 1>you a surprise gift. If we are ever in the

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<v Speaker 1>same city, I promise I will track you down and

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<v Speaker 1>sign it for you. The link to the preorders is

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<v Speaker 1>in the bio, and so now into the episode. This

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<v Speaker 1>episode is a little bit different. It's our fifty episode

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<v Speaker 1>of Noble Blood, and so rather than focus on just

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<v Speaker 1>one story, I'm going to focus on five, five historical

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<v Speaker 1>myths that, for whatever reason, have persisted to this day.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes I think understanding which lies spread and why can

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<v Speaker 1>be just as important as understanding the actual truth. So

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<v Speaker 1>let's dive in. First up, it has to be. First up,

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<v Speaker 1>it's most important. Let the meat cake. Everyone has heard

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<v Speaker 1>this story. In fact, when you think about Marie Antoinette,

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<v Speaker 1>it's probably the first thing that you think of. The

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<v Speaker 1>story goes that starving peasants wearing their dustiest rags, gaunt

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<v Speaker 1>with hunger and poverty, come to Versailles, the gilded palace,

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<v Speaker 1>in which Marie Antoinette and her husband feasted on bond

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<v Speaker 1>bonds under painted ceilings. Please, one of the peasants say,

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<v Speaker 1>his giant eyes turned up hopefully towards the queen. The

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<v Speaker 1>people of France don't have any bread to eat. Marie

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<v Speaker 1>Antoinette rolls her eyes and sighs, annoyed that she has

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<v Speaker 1>to look at a poor person. Her painted lips curled devilishly,

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<v Speaker 1>and she replies, let them eat cake. As far as

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<v Speaker 1>setups and punchlines go, there's practically nothing better. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>catty bon moo equivalent of Lucille Bluth from Arrested Development

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<v Speaker 1>thinking that a banana costs ten dollars. It's little wonder

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<v Speaker 1>that the story caught on and on and on. This

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<v Speaker 1>smith Bus thing is a double act. The first myth

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<v Speaker 1>to bust is that, as pedants left to point out,

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<v Speaker 1>Marie Antoinette would have actually said la brioche, which pardoning

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<v Speaker 1>my awful French pronunciation, means let them eat brioche. Brioche

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<v Speaker 1>refers to an incredibly rich bread made with butter and

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<v Speaker 1>with eggs. It's as good as cake to an eighteenth

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<v Speaker 1>century French peasant, and so Marie Antoinette saying let them

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<v Speaker 1>eat brioche is basically just a more specific variation on

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<v Speaker 1>the same punchline. But the more important correction is that

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<v Speaker 1>Marie Antoinette never told peasants to eat cake or brioche,

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<v Speaker 1>or croissant or any pastry. Before and during the French Revolution,

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<v Speaker 1>Marie Antoinette became a scapegoat to represent all of the

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<v Speaker 1>ills of the second estate, the ruling nobility of France,

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<v Speaker 1>the elite upper class, not only would she the most

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<v Speaker 1>visible consumer of the French royal family with her expensive

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<v Speaker 1>clothes and elaborate hairstyles, but also she was foreign in Austrian,

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<v Speaker 1>which meant that people were primed from the beginning to

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<v Speaker 1>hate her. The first recorded variation on the quote let

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<v Speaker 1>them eat cake story actually comes from a sixteenth century

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<v Speaker 1>German story about a noblewoman who wonders aloud why poor

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<v Speaker 1>people who can't afford bread just don't eat the pastry

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<v Speaker 1>cross um. The story came to France two hundred years later,

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<v Speaker 1>or at least it was popularized in Rousseau's Confessions, in

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<v Speaker 1>which he attributes the quote to an anonymous princess, most

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<v Speaker 1>likely just meaning it apocryphal lee. At the time that

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<v Speaker 1>Rousseau was writing, Marie Antoinette was nine years old. She

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<v Speaker 1>was the younger sister of princesses in Austria, not at

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<v Speaker 1>all in line to be married to the Prince of France.

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<v Speaker 1>Yet and Rousseau would not have cared at all what

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<v Speaker 1>she was up to. The little preteen princess known as

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<v Speaker 1>Maria Antonio was not spouting poetic about the French population

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<v Speaker 1>and their lack of brioche consumption. I'm a known defender

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<v Speaker 1>of Marie Antoinette, which seems like a strange thing to say,

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<v Speaker 1>but I do think it's interesting and important to look

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<v Speaker 1>at Marie Antoinette's life and role as it would have

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<v Speaker 1>been established in the framework of eighteenth century French politics.

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<v Speaker 1>She was told and raised to be the queen of

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<v Speaker 1>a country from the age of fourteen. She was married

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<v Speaker 1>to the Dafais France, and her role was not political.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't her decision to make what the French people

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<v Speaker 1>were taxed or what the government was spending its money on.

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<v Speaker 1>Her role really was to wear clothes by French designers

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<v Speaker 1>and spawn sir French hairstylists and throw parties and entertained diplomats.

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<v Speaker 1>She was raised for a very specific role and purpose that, unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 1>by the end of the eighteenth century became obsolete, and

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<v Speaker 1>I would argue for good reason, but in her own

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<v Speaker 1>tiny bubble raised her entire life in a elaborate court ritual,

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<v Speaker 1>a tradition. Marie Antoinette, by all accounts, was a kind

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<v Speaker 1>and generous person. There are stories of Marie Antoinette stopping

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<v Speaker 1>her carriage because she saw a child on the side

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<v Speaker 1>of the road, and then in effect adopting that child

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<v Speaker 1>to pay for their education and comfortable lifestyle. As an individual,

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<v Speaker 1>she was kind and tried to help poor people, but

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<v Speaker 1>Marie Antoinette had no education, interest, or really even role

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<v Speaker 1>when it came to helping the poor people of France

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<v Speaker 1>as a whole. It's interesting also that she's painted as

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<v Speaker 1>so out of touch and eliteau, which again she was.

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<v Speaker 1>But Marie Antoinette, as an individual, loved this idea of

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<v Speaker 1>painting herself as a farm girl or woman of the people.

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<v Speaker 1>At Versailles, she built a tiny village that was meant

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<v Speaker 1>to represent a French farm village, where she would shed

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<v Speaker 1>all of the layers of her court finery, put on

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<v Speaker 1>simple linen peasant wear, and in effect play poor person

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<v Speaker 1>for an afternoon. She would milk goats and cows and

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<v Speaker 1>take fresh eggs from chickens, although of course all of

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<v Speaker 1>the fresh eggs that she was taking from chickens would

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<v Speaker 1>have been removed prior to Marie Antoine, it coming wiped

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<v Speaker 1>down of all the chicken viscera and then replaced underneath

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<v Speaker 1>the chicken. It was basically a disnified version of what

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<v Speaker 1>being a peasant was like. Now that I say it,

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<v Speaker 1>I recognize how wildly out of touch that seems, but

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<v Speaker 1>there's something almost quaint about it, I find. But of course,

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<v Speaker 1>when the French Revolution came, she was the Queen of France,

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<v Speaker 1>the female head of this incredibly destructive and archaic institution,

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<v Speaker 1>and so that had had to quite literally roll. Rousseau's

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<v Speaker 1>writing was incredibly influential to the revolutionaries who would overthrow

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<v Speaker 1>Marie Antoinette and the entire French monarchy. So it's more

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<v Speaker 1>than likely that they conflated his anecdotal story with their

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<v Speaker 1>queen because it's so thematically perfect. But the debunking has

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<v Speaker 1>been going on almost ever since. Fifty years after the

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<v Speaker 1>French Revolution, a writer in the French journal leg Whip

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<v Speaker 1>said that he could prove that the let Them Eat

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<v Speaker 1>Cake rumor about Marie Antoinette was false because he had

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<v Speaker 1>found the quote in a book dated seventeen sixty. But

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<v Speaker 1>that debunking didn't really take nor did the next, nor

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<v Speaker 1>did the next. A good story spreads faster than a

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<v Speaker 1>boring truth, especially when it's a story that fits our

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<v Speaker 1>preconceived notions about who a person is. Let Them Eat

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<v Speaker 1>Cake is perhaps one of the most effective propaganda campaigns

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<v Speaker 1>in history, because even more than two hundred years later,

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<v Speaker 1>it's still the most famous thing about a woman who

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<v Speaker 1>never said it. Next up the classic rumor that Napoleon

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<v Speaker 1>and Parra of France was short. It's a rumor so

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<v Speaker 1>pervasive that there's even a complex named after it in

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<v Speaker 1>which someone adopts a personality of overaggression or domineering behavior

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<v Speaker 1>in order to compensate for being short. The rumor about

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<v Speaker 1>Napoleon being unnaturally short is a rumor with a seemingly

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<v Speaker 1>simple explanation. A according to the French measurement system at

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<v Speaker 1>the time, Napoleon was five to objectively on the shorter

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<v Speaker 1>side for a man, but the metric system hadn't yet

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<v Speaker 1>normalized measurements across Europe, and the French inch at the

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<v Speaker 1>time was two point seven centimeters while the Imperial inch

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<v Speaker 1>is two point five four centimeters, which means that by

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<v Speaker 1>modern metrics, Napoleon would have stood a little bit above

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<v Speaker 1>five five, or just about average height for a man

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<v Speaker 1>at the time. Another factor that contributed to the idea

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<v Speaker 1>that Napoleon was short was that he would have surrounded

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<v Speaker 1>himself with his most elite soldiers, who were incredibly tall,

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<v Speaker 1>genetically blessed Frenchman. Anyone flanked by two eighteenth century Parisian

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<v Speaker 1>shacks would look short by comparison, and the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>Napoleon being short took root in British propaganda. The cartoonist

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<v Speaker 1>James Gilray was incredibly influential, especially with his drawings of

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<v Speaker 1>the quote maniac Ravings of Little Bony, in which Napoleon

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<v Speaker 1>is depicted as a tantramming toddler in boots half the

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<v Speaker 1>size of his body. Another famous Gilray drawing, titled The

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<v Speaker 1>plum Putting of Danger, features Napoleon across a dinner table

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<v Speaker 1>from the British Prime Minister William Pitt. While the pair

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<v Speaker 1>of men divide up a dessert meant to depict the globe.

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<v Speaker 1>Pitt is depicted as tall and lanky, with legs that

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<v Speaker 1>are practically skeletal. Cartoons are all about contrast, and so Napoleon,

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<v Speaker 1>practically hidden beneath the large hat, is tiny. Perhaps unsurprisingly,

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<v Speaker 1>the cartoons infuriated Napoleon. He sent a barrage of letters

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<v Speaker 1>across the Channel demanding that the British government censored depictions

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<v Speaker 1>of him in their press. Surprise, surprise, the British government

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<v Speaker 1>did not heed his request, and that left Napoleon between

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<v Speaker 1>a rock and a hard place. Getting angrier about it

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<v Speaker 1>would only make him look like the short, ill tempered

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<v Speaker 1>toddler with something to compensate for. The next rumor is

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<v Speaker 1>one that verges a little bit on the pornographic, so

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<v Speaker 1>if you're listening with a younger listener, you might want

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<v Speaker 1>to fast forward a little bit. This is the rumor

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<v Speaker 1>about Catherine the Great. Maybe you've heard of it, that

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<v Speaker 1>the female Empress of Russia died while having sex with

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<v Speaker 1>a horse. Enemies of Catherine the Great long painted her

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<v Speaker 1>as a sexual deviant. She did have a number of

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<v Speaker 1>sexual relationships after her one ill fated marriage too, Zar

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<v Speaker 1>Peter the Third, although not a number of relationships that

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<v Speaker 1>would have raised eyebrows if she had been a male ruler.

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<v Speaker 1>When Catherine was a teen major, a minor German princess

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<v Speaker 1>who was still named Sophie at the time, she was

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<v Speaker 1>married off to Peter the Third, who was to be

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<v Speaker 1>brief terrible at being a czar. To make a long

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<v Speaker 1>story extremely short, Catherine overthrew her husband with the help

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<v Speaker 1>of her lover, Gregory or Love. From there. Catholick's romantic

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<v Speaker 1>partners were usually also her political partners. She tended to

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<v Speaker 1>be attracted to men like Gregory Patempkin with a military

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<v Speaker 1>and political mind who could help her rule the incredibly

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<v Speaker 1>vast Empire of Russia. It's a side effect of being

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<v Speaker 1>a woman with power that terrible rumors start to spread eventually,

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<v Speaker 1>and Catherine's personality encouraged certain rumors to some degree. There

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<v Speaker 1>were the aforementioned partners. Even into her middle and older age,

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine continued to take lovers, many of whom were men

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<v Speaker 1>much younger than she was. And it's also believed that

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine kept a small room adjacent to her suite where

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<v Speaker 1>she kept pornographic materials and erotica, including furniture carved with

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<v Speaker 1>explicit and X rated naked figures. During World War Two,

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<v Speaker 1>German soldiers raiding the palace in supposedly found the secret

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<v Speaker 1>rooms and took photos of the furniture, but since then

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<v Speaker 1>the furniture was either lost in the chaos of war

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<v Speaker 1>or purposefully removed by the Russian government to protect the

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<v Speaker 1>royal family's virtue. But none of that quite explains the

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<v Speaker 1>extremeness and specificity of the story that so many of

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<v Speaker 1>us have heard about Catherine the Great, That she was

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<v Speaker 1>engaging in beastiality with a horse suspended above her when

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<v Speaker 1>the horses harness broke and crushed her to death. I

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<v Speaker 1>hate killing a fun rumor as much as the next person,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's not true. Catherine died of a stroke at

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<v Speaker 1>age sixty seven in her bed not having sex with

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<v Speaker 1>a horse. Insane as it sounds, though that horse rumor

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<v Speaker 1>didn't quite come out of nowhere. At the time, the

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<v Speaker 1>notion of quote riding a horse was a common euphemism

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<v Speaker 1>for female sexuality, and Catherine, who frequently wore male bridges

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<v Speaker 1>and military dress, was also a famed equestrian. An actual equestrian,

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<v Speaker 1>she was incredibly adept at riding a horse, so that's

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<v Speaker 1>basically the origin of the rumor that she was more

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<v Speaker 1>sexually promiscuous than might have been expected of a woman

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<v Speaker 1>in the eighteenth century, and that she was really good

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<v Speaker 1>and really interested in riding horses. And rumors, especially colorful rumors,

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<v Speaker 1>are hard to kill. Propaganda against the Empress was extremely

0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.880
<v Speaker 1>common in her lifetime, both in Russia and abroad. When

0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Catherine the Great, who was a frequent pen pal of Voltaire,

0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 1>didn't throw her support behind the French revolutionaries during their revolt,

0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.880
<v Speaker 1>they showed their lack of appreciation with a series of

0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:24.160
<v Speaker 1>particularly harsh caricatures, although you can't really blame any monarch

0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:30.400
<v Speaker 1>for not supporting the group overthrowing and beheading monarchs. And

0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.280
<v Speaker 1>then when it comes to legacy, it also didn't help

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Catherine the Great that the next to inherit the Russian throne,

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 1>her son Paul the First, hated and resented her. But

0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 1>I suppose when it comes to legacy for Catherine the

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Great it's a mixed bag. We may half believe that

0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:53.200
<v Speaker 1>she died in a outrageous act of sexual grotesquery, but

0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.320
<v Speaker 1>then again we do still refer to her as the Great.

0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:09.800
<v Speaker 1>There are some rumors that aren't really commonly discussed anymore,

0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:14.520
<v Speaker 1>but which were at one time wildly popular conspiracy theories,

0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.440
<v Speaker 1>namely that Elizabeth the First, England's long reigning female monarch,

0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:23.600
<v Speaker 1>the Virgin Queen who ushered in an era of artistic

0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:30.119
<v Speaker 1>and domestic prosperity, was actually a man. The popularizer of

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:34.199
<v Speaker 1>this myth was actually the author from Stoker, who you

0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:39.199
<v Speaker 1>probably know for his book Dracula. Soaker also wrote a

0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:44.320
<v Speaker 1>book published in nine called Famous Impostors, in which he

0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:49.119
<v Speaker 1>claimed that Queen Elizabeth was actually replaced by a male

0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.399
<v Speaker 1>doppelganger when she was a child, and that it was

0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.720
<v Speaker 1>he the doppelganger who was actually ruling during the Great

0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:02.080
<v Speaker 1>Elizabethan Age. Stoker had been traveling through the Cotswalds of

0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:06.160
<v Speaker 1>England when he found himself in a small village where

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.840
<v Speaker 1>for their May Day celebration they had a small boy

0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:14.600
<v Speaker 1>dress up as Elizabeth. When Stoker inquired as to the

0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:19.320
<v Speaker 1>origins of the tradition, they told him this story that

0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:24.240
<v Speaker 1>when Princess Elizabeth was young, sometime around fifteen forty three

0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.680
<v Speaker 1>or forty four, she had been sent to that village

0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.480
<v Speaker 1>of Bristly in the Cotswalts to avoid the threat of

0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.360
<v Speaker 1>plague that was so deadly in the more densely populated city.

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:40.720
<v Speaker 1>But while Elizabeth was there on her countryside retreat, she died,

0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:48.040
<v Speaker 1>whether of the plague or another unspecified illness. Princess Elizabeth's governess,

0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.479
<v Speaker 1>knowing that Elizabeth's father, King Henry, was famous for his temper,

0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.880
<v Speaker 1>decided that she would hide the Princess's death before King

0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Henry came out to the countryside to visit his daughter.

0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:04.480
<v Speaker 1>The governess had a small problem. There were no young

0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.240
<v Speaker 1>girls in the village who at all resembled the pale

0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.679
<v Speaker 1>red haired Elizabeth. But there was a young boy, a

0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:18.200
<v Speaker 1>little playmate of the deceased Elizabeth, who had surprisingly delicate features,

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:22.680
<v Speaker 1>who was fair with light eyes and light hair. With

0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:27.399
<v Speaker 1>time until the king's visit running short, the governess decided

0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:31.440
<v Speaker 1>to dress the little boy up in Elizabeth's clothing and

0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.679
<v Speaker 1>hoped for the best. King Henry, who was either in

0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.159
<v Speaker 1>a hurry or not quite sure what his daughter looked like.

0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.960
<v Speaker 1>After a few months, apart fully believed the Khan, and

0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:47.040
<v Speaker 1>so from that time on, the young country boy became

0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.920
<v Speaker 1>the Princess Elizabeth, and the real princess, who had died,

0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:57.240
<v Speaker 1>was buried anonymously somewhere in a quiet Cotswald's grave. Supposedly

0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.760
<v Speaker 1>three hundred years later, the Reallizabeth's body was dug up

0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.920
<v Speaker 1>accidentally during some building work. The body was conveniently reburied

0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:11.320
<v Speaker 1>without anyone doing an actual examination or knowing where it

0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.920
<v Speaker 1>was buried, but the Cotswald's May Day tradition was born.

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.040
<v Speaker 1>There are a couple of factors that might tempt someone

0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:29.320
<v Speaker 1>to suspect that maybe Elizabeth was a man, outside of

0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.119
<v Speaker 1>just the basic sexism of not wanting to believe a

0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:36.880
<v Speaker 1>woman could effectively rule a country. She famously wore thick

0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.520
<v Speaker 1>powder makeup, although the real reason was that she wore

0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:44.800
<v Speaker 1>it to cover up smallpox scars and not stubble, and

0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth famously never married or had children. Being a virgin

0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.880
<v Speaker 1>queen married to England would be a convenient cover if

0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.160
<v Speaker 1>she were actually a man who couldn't go to bed

0:20:57.280 --> 0:21:02.000
<v Speaker 1>with some random foreign prints. But the most compelling evidence

0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:06.600
<v Speaker 1>for some less than enlightened spirits was the power of

0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.760
<v Speaker 1>her leadership. Her speeches were rousing, she had a temper,

0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:15.480
<v Speaker 1>she was controlling, She was an incredible leader. In short,

0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:22.080
<v Speaker 1>she was all of the traits stereotypically assigned to male monarchs.

0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:26.960
<v Speaker 1>As I'm sure you can catch on, there is no

0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:31.880
<v Speaker 1>truth to the rumors. Elizabeth was examined by a number

0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:35.119
<v Speaker 1>of doctors throughout her life, and none of them mentioned

0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:39.560
<v Speaker 1>that she had male anatomy at all. And also, at

0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:42.440
<v Speaker 1>various points in her life there were nurses and ladies

0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:46.360
<v Speaker 1>who were bribed by suitors or politicians to inform them

0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.720
<v Speaker 1>as to whether Elizabeth was still having her monthly bleeding.

0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:52.240
<v Speaker 1>I eat to let them know if she was still

0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.960
<v Speaker 1>of child bearing years all of that is to say

0:21:56.080 --> 0:22:00.200
<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth was absolutely a woman, and the idea of her

0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:04.480
<v Speaker 1>secretly being replaced by a male doppelganger by a governess

0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 1>in a moment of panic is a fun story and

0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.400
<v Speaker 1>a fun origin to a tradition of a village where

0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.000
<v Speaker 1>they dress a young boy up in costume, but not

0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:22.400
<v Speaker 1>much else. In the vein of impostors and conspiracy theories,

0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:26.119
<v Speaker 1>here's a conspiracy theory that some people actually believe to

0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:29.880
<v Speaker 1>this day that the son of Marie Antoinette and King

0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:34.560
<v Speaker 1>Louis the sixteenth of France, Louis Charles, the Lost Aufhen,

0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:40.719
<v Speaker 1>actually survived the French Revolution. The story of Louis Charles

0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:44.760
<v Speaker 1>of France is tragic. He was a Prince of Versailles

0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:47.880
<v Speaker 1>four years old when his older brother died, which made

0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.680
<v Speaker 1>him the future Louis the seventeenth of France and heir

0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:55.280
<v Speaker 1>to the French throne. But then when he was still

0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:59.760
<v Speaker 1>a young boy, the French Revolution imprisoned his family. His

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:04.359
<v Speaker 1>father was beheaded and his mother was imprisoned, and the

0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:08.520
<v Speaker 1>young Louis Charles was brutally tortured with an earshot of

0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:12.200
<v Speaker 1>his mother. He was beaten and also made to drink

0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.800
<v Speaker 1>wine until he stumbled to make the guards laugh. He

0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:18.879
<v Speaker 1>was told that his parents were traitors and that his

0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:23.400
<v Speaker 1>mom had sexually abused him. And then, of course, his mother,

0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Marie Antoinette, who spent her days pressed against the wall

0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:29.679
<v Speaker 1>of her jail cell hoping to catch a glimpse of

0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:31.960
<v Speaker 1>her son as he was brought back and forth from

0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:37.119
<v Speaker 1>his abusive lessons, was also beheaded. When Louis Charles was

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:41.960
<v Speaker 1>ten years old, he too died of tuberculosis or jail

0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:50.280
<v Speaker 1>fever in jail in the Temple Prison. Obviously, his death,

0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:53.360
<v Speaker 1>the death of the boy that royalists would have at

0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:57.600
<v Speaker 1>the time believed was the then King of France, was

0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:02.080
<v Speaker 1>of massive importance to the revolutionary government, and so a doctor,

0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:06.240
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Pelletan, was brought in to do a full autopsy.

0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:09.840
<v Speaker 1>The body of Louis Charles was thrown into a mass

0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:14.080
<v Speaker 1>grave in the Saint Marguerite Cemetery, but Dr Pelletan was

0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:19.200
<v Speaker 1>still secretly sympathetic to the royal family, especially after seeing

0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:22.560
<v Speaker 1>all of the physical abuse that young Louis Charles had suffered,

0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:28.000
<v Speaker 1>and so the doctor kept a small souvenir he kept

0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:31.800
<v Speaker 1>the young Prince's heart snuck into his pocket in a

0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:36.080
<v Speaker 1>handkerchief and then safe in a jar tucked into his

0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:42.840
<v Speaker 1>desk drawer. In the aftermath of the French Revolution, more

0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:46.159
<v Speaker 1>than a hundred people would come forward claiming to be

0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:49.879
<v Speaker 1>the lost Prince who had disappeared in jail. After all,

0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:53.240
<v Speaker 1>how did anybody know for sure that he was dead?

0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:57.000
<v Speaker 1>And being the lost of fault was a valuable claim

0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:00.919
<v Speaker 1>to make, Especially after the French Revolution settled and the

0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:06.520
<v Speaker 1>possibility of a Bourbon restoration went from possible to then

0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:11.919
<v Speaker 1>after Napoleon imminent, the idea of a Bourbon prince impostor

0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:16.800
<v Speaker 1>became so ubiquitous that it was a cultural punchline. A

0:25:17.000 --> 0:25:20.959
<v Speaker 1>hobo pretending to be the little boy Dolphin appears in

0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn. The real boom in False Dafense

0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:30.760
<v Speaker 1>came when the child's uncle, the man who became known

0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:36.360
<v Speaker 1>as Louis SEV, became king. After Napoleon's fall. There were

0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:40.360
<v Speaker 1>so many impostors that fraudulently claiming to be the King

0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:44.800
<v Speaker 1>of France was illegal. French authorities didn't really pay that

0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:48.199
<v Speaker 1>much attention to enforcing that law, but there were a

0:25:48.240 --> 0:25:52.880
<v Speaker 1>few really prominent cases with so much support behind them

0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:56.320
<v Speaker 1>that the French authorities did ultimately take them to trial.

0:25:57.160 --> 0:26:00.439
<v Speaker 1>One such man was known as Charles de Navar, a

0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:05.040
<v Speaker 1>traveler from New Orleans with facial scars and missing teeth,

0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:08.680
<v Speaker 1>who wrote letters to the king and the Dauphin's lone

0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:13.359
<v Speaker 1>surviving sister. He signed those letters d'aufin with an F.

0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:20.440
<v Speaker 1>The most famous impostor by far was a man who

0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:25.119
<v Speaker 1>went by Carl Wilhelm Nundorff. Nandorff was from Prussia and

0:26:25.200 --> 0:26:27.800
<v Speaker 1>he claimed to be a clockmaker, but he had been

0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:34.040
<v Speaker 1>locked up in Germany for counterfeiting and he couldn't speak French. Nonetheless,

0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:38.760
<v Speaker 1>he persuaded a former Versailles lady maid and private secretary

0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:43.160
<v Speaker 1>that he actually was the lost Little Prince, although it's

0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:45.840
<v Speaker 1>also possible, I think that they were in on the

0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:49.640
<v Speaker 1>scheme and that he was angling for a payout, and

0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:53.479
<v Speaker 1>the Versailles ladies and maids may have thought that they

0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:58.800
<v Speaker 1>would be rewarded for their loyalty. Nandorff's case went to trial,

0:26:59.400 --> 0:27:02.560
<v Speaker 1>he was guilty, and he was banished to England, where

0:27:02.600 --> 0:27:07.320
<v Speaker 1>he was eventually arrested for trying to build an elaborate explosive.

0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:12.680
<v Speaker 1>When he did eventually die in Holland in eighteen forty five.

0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:19.480
<v Speaker 1>His gravestone identified him as Louis Charles. His descendants remained

0:27:19.560 --> 0:27:23.080
<v Speaker 1>committed to the Khan the belief that he really was

0:27:23.240 --> 0:27:27.000
<v Speaker 1>the last remaining descendant of the Bourbon monarchy, although in

0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:32.080
<v Speaker 1>scientists ran a DNA test on the lock of Nandorff's

0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:35.600
<v Speaker 1>hair to prove once and for all that he was

0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:41.320
<v Speaker 1>an impostor DNA once again swooping in to ruin the fund.

0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:45.639
<v Speaker 1>DNA would also give us the real answer of what

0:27:45.800 --> 0:27:50.920
<v Speaker 1>happened to the show called Last Defense. That calcified heart

0:27:51.200 --> 0:27:54.119
<v Speaker 1>that the doctor had taken from the autopsy as a

0:27:54.160 --> 0:27:57.840
<v Speaker 1>souvenir would eventually end up in the royal crypt of

0:27:57.880 --> 0:28:04.320
<v Speaker 1>Sindony alongside the mother and father. In two thousand, geneticists

0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:07.879
<v Speaker 1>proved that the heart did in fact belong to the

0:28:08.000 --> 0:28:11.360
<v Speaker 1>dead Louis Charles, the ten year old Prince of France

0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:16.040
<v Speaker 1>who died in prison. To me, stories of the Last

0:28:16.119 --> 0:28:20.000
<v Speaker 1>of Fen escaping are similar to rumors that the young

0:28:20.080 --> 0:28:24.800
<v Speaker 1>Anastasia actually survived the murder of the Romanovs in Katerinburg.

0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:30.760
<v Speaker 1>It's a fairy tale, a romantic, hopeful story, and so

0:28:30.840 --> 0:28:35.439
<v Speaker 1>much easier to swallow than the tragedy of young, pointless

0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:43.360
<v Speaker 1>political death. There's one more historical myth that I have

0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:48.000
<v Speaker 1>that isn't quite related to nobility, but one that I

0:28:48.080 --> 0:28:52.680
<v Speaker 1>can't help debunking, and so if you'll bear with me,

0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:57.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to debunk it anyway. Do you know those

0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:01.760
<v Speaker 1>medieval torture devices that you can imagine from cartoons, The

0:29:01.880 --> 0:29:05.400
<v Speaker 1>iron maiden with spikes that would close and go through

0:29:05.440 --> 0:29:09.880
<v Speaker 1>a person's whole body, the rack, the pair of anguish

0:29:10.000 --> 0:29:16.440
<v Speaker 1>stretcher that was supposedly inserted and expanded into someone's bodily orifice,

0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:23.480
<v Speaker 1>either a mouth or rear end as punishment for sexual deviancy. Well,

0:29:23.520 --> 0:29:27.880
<v Speaker 1>all of them are basically made up. They were all

0:29:27.960 --> 0:29:32.680
<v Speaker 1>basically invented in the eighteenth century to scandalize and entertain

0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:36.880
<v Speaker 1>people in medieval torture museums, and they've more or less

0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:41.800
<v Speaker 1>served the same purpose ever since. The idea of medieval

0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:47.120
<v Speaker 1>torture devices just don't hold up to any real academic scrutiny.

0:29:47.360 --> 0:29:50.440
<v Speaker 1>There was an examination of that so called pair of

0:29:50.520 --> 0:29:53.400
<v Speaker 1>anguish that was on display in a torture museum, and

0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:57.040
<v Speaker 1>the examination showed that it would have been far too

0:29:57.040 --> 0:30:00.640
<v Speaker 1>weak to have opened in any bodily orifice, and that

0:30:00.760 --> 0:30:03.800
<v Speaker 1>it also had a latch that would have prevented that expansion.

0:30:04.600 --> 0:30:08.960
<v Speaker 1>The first actual mention of a pair of anguish comes

0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:12.480
<v Speaker 1>not from the Middle Ages, but from the eighteen hundreds.

0:30:13.120 --> 0:30:17.160
<v Speaker 1>One historian suggested that it might have been a device

0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:22.520
<v Speaker 1>to stretch gloves or sucks, and the iron maiden that

0:30:22.800 --> 0:30:26.720
<v Speaker 1>upright coffin with spikes that someone's made to get into

0:30:26.840 --> 0:30:30.280
<v Speaker 1>and then you know, the door closes and they're impaled. Well,

0:30:30.320 --> 0:30:35.360
<v Speaker 1>that was a flat out phony invention. The first mention

0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:37.800
<v Speaker 1>of it as a torture device in the Middle Ages

0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:41.760
<v Speaker 1>came from a writer named Johann Philip sieben Keys. While

0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:44.520
<v Speaker 1>he was writing a guide book to the city of Nuremberg.

0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:49.320
<v Speaker 1>He described a criminal dying in an Egyptian mummy case

0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:52.920
<v Speaker 1>lined with spikes in the year fifteen fifty, but he

0:30:53.040 --> 0:30:55.880
<v Speaker 1>had no actual evidence of that ever happening. It was

0:30:55.920 --> 0:31:00.120
<v Speaker 1>mostly just a creepy, gross story that he wrote as

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:04.200
<v Speaker 1>he wanted to drum up attention. There's no actual evidence

0:31:04.480 --> 0:31:07.840
<v Speaker 1>that the so called iron maiden was ever used for

0:31:07.960 --> 0:31:11.240
<v Speaker 1>torture in the Middle Ages, or that it ever existed

0:31:11.280 --> 0:31:15.920
<v Speaker 1>before the eighteenth century, but iron maidens began to pop

0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:20.600
<v Speaker 1>up at torture museums across Europe. Not actual historical relics,

0:31:20.640 --> 0:31:25.080
<v Speaker 1>mind you, just things fabricated to demonstrate what they say

0:31:25.360 --> 0:31:29.040
<v Speaker 1>medieval people did. There was even one on display at

0:31:29.040 --> 0:31:32.640
<v Speaker 1>the World's Fair in Chicago, and you can imagine why

0:31:32.720 --> 0:31:36.280
<v Speaker 1>people were so enthralled by it. We're enthralled by it still.

0:31:36.400 --> 0:31:40.800
<v Speaker 1>It's incredibly grizzly. And then there's something like the rack,

0:31:41.080 --> 0:31:44.400
<v Speaker 1>which would stretch people out to torture them into confession,

0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:49.640
<v Speaker 1>which actually was a documented torture device, but far back

0:31:49.680 --> 0:31:53.680
<v Speaker 1>in ancient times, centuries before the birth of Christ, nowhere

0:31:53.840 --> 0:31:59.200
<v Speaker 1>near the Middle Ages. And yet the morbid popularity of

0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:05.640
<v Speaker 1>medieval torture museums, particularly among Victorian audiences, lead to racks

0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:10.280
<v Speaker 1>being displayed as devices from the Middle Ages. Again, none

0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:13.960
<v Speaker 1>of those devices on display and museums were authentic or

0:32:14.000 --> 0:32:17.800
<v Speaker 1>ever used to torture anyone. Any devices that appeared in

0:32:17.960 --> 0:32:23.240
<v Speaker 1>so called torture museums were entirely fabricated for museum purposes.

0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:27.160
<v Speaker 1>Torture did exist in the Middle Ages, but it was

0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:31.480
<v Speaker 1>a little less cinematic and a lot less grotesque than

0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:35.040
<v Speaker 1>people might want to believe. The most common form of

0:32:35.120 --> 0:32:39.480
<v Speaker 1>medieval torture was being tied with ropes or restrained in

0:32:39.560 --> 0:32:42.800
<v Speaker 1>a pillory, which is the device that you can imagine

0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:47.400
<v Speaker 1>where someone's head and arms are held through a wooden board.

0:32:48.320 --> 0:32:51.760
<v Speaker 1>The point of a pillory was to humiliate, not to name.

0:32:52.560 --> 0:32:55.959
<v Speaker 1>If a woman was sent to the pillory, she traditionally

0:32:56.000 --> 0:32:58.760
<v Speaker 1>would have been allowed to sit on the stool. But

0:32:59.040 --> 0:33:03.480
<v Speaker 1>people in the Torrian ages like now love the drama

0:33:03.600 --> 0:33:07.960
<v Speaker 1>of the morbid, of the shocking, of the macabre. I mean,

0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:12.520
<v Speaker 1>I have a podcast called Noble Blood and it's run

0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:16.840
<v Speaker 1>for fifty episodes, and it's not purely Happenstand that I

0:33:16.920 --> 0:33:22.080
<v Speaker 1>tend to gravitate towards stories of death and mystery. On

0:33:22.240 --> 0:33:26.640
<v Speaker 1>some level, maybe it's satisfying to believe that we're morally

0:33:26.840 --> 0:33:31.480
<v Speaker 1>or ethically superior to our ancestors, That they were neanderthal

0:33:31.560 --> 0:33:37.520
<v Speaker 1>like brutes, racist, sexist, bloodthirsty, and that we because we're

0:33:37.560 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 1>able to gasp, but their stories aren't. I can tell

0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:45.080
<v Speaker 1>you that, in my nearly two years of writing and

0:33:45.200 --> 0:33:48.960
<v Speaker 1>researching this podcast, the thing that I've come to realize

0:33:48.960 --> 0:33:52.120
<v Speaker 1>above all else, it's just how similar we are to

0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:56.200
<v Speaker 1>people in the past, how normal they were, how funny

0:33:56.240 --> 0:34:00.240
<v Speaker 1>they were, they made jokes, they fell in love, they

0:34:00.320 --> 0:34:04.680
<v Speaker 1>got bored, they made mistakes. Rumors are fun and they

0:34:04.720 --> 0:34:08.319
<v Speaker 1>spread for a reason. But there's nothing more compelling to

0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:12.319
<v Speaker 1>me than digging down to find the truth in the

0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:17.440
<v Speaker 1>real story. Here's to fifty episodes of Noble Blood and

0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:22.239
<v Speaker 1>hopefully the next fifty to come. Thank you so so

0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:25.520
<v Speaker 1>much for your support. I really wouldn't be able to

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:38.920
<v Speaker 1>do any of this without you. Noble Blood is a

0:34:38.960 --> 0:34:41.640
<v Speaker 1>production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from

0:34:41.640 --> 0:34:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Aaron Minky. The show was written and hosted by Dana

0:34:44.719 --> 0:34:49.160
<v Speaker 1>Schwartz and produced by Aaron Manky, Matt Frederick, Alex Williams,

0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:52.600
<v Speaker 1>and Trevor Young. Noble Blood is on social media at

0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:55.120
<v Speaker 1>Noble Blood Tales, and you can learn more about the

0:34:55.120 --> 0:34:58.080
<v Speaker 1>show over at Noble blood tails dot com. For more

0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:00.680
<v Speaker 1>podcasts from I Heart Radio is at the I heart

0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

0:35:04.000 --> 0:35:06.440
<v Speaker 1>favorite shows. M M